July 1, 2026 • 56 mins
At some point in their lives, most U.S. residents have at least daydreamed of moving to another country. And it seems that every time one politician or another wins an election, some group of Americans says they're finally going to take the leap. With growing chaos at home and abroad, more and more people in the U.S. may actually move. But how does it actually work? Join Ben, Matt and Noel as they get to the bottom of leaving the United States.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Noah.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
They called me Ben, and you can too. We're joined
as always with our super producer, Dylan the Tennessee Val Fagan.
Most importantly, you are you. You are here for now,
and that makes this the stuff they don't want you
to know. Following up on a previous episode regarding a
(00:53):
passage of people geopolitically, the thing we will call prisoner exchanges.
We start working on this quite some time ago. Guys,
I think it's fair to say that at some point
in life, virtually every human being, wherever they live, has
(01:14):
fantasized about, you know, that big move. You know, maybe
I'll go to La I'll go to Hollywood, I'll go
to New York, I'll go to Poughkeepsie, I might go
to Japan, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
And so I think that's true for many, and certainly
for us. I think there are definitely people that might
just not even think about it though too, But for
the purposes of this episode, one hundred percent, it's definitely
a thing that all of us have thought about and
entertained and you know kind of I guess satiated in
many ways by being able to travel.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, well, it's kind of a crazy thing. We all
have that moment when we're younger and we have been
learning whatever we've been learning from our our parents or guardians,
whoever we're around, whatever institution may be, is controlling. We're
learning a lot of things. But there's a moment when
you realize just how big the world is, and how
different places look in other parts of that world, right,
(02:10):
and how different people look in different customs, and you
just start to really understand how big this place is,
and you know, and then you maybe kind of ride
that feeling for a little while until you become an
adult and you have to pay bills and you're like, oh, crap,
maybe I don't want to live on the other side
of the world.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Maybe this is maybe this is in for me, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Or maybe if you have the means, you realize that
Earth is one big escape room. So if I'm Elon Musk,
for instance, maybe I can become the world's first trillionaire
by selling the idea of a passage to Mars. It's
so weird that, especially in the United States, guys, there's
(02:53):
a cyclical wax and wade of people who say they're
leaving this country for a good dag nab it. And
it usually occurs in step with economic instability like the
Great Depression, or in step with political headwinds. You know,
a democrat wins the uh, wins the seed of commander
(03:16):
in chief, and there are a bunch of people who,
probably with high dudgeon and theater, are saying, oh, now
I'm gonna move away because these socialists are so bad.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Well yeah, And then there's also the version of it
where you know, the people who are criticizing a government
or a political situation they don't like are answered by
their opposition with well, if you hate it so much,
why don't you just leave now? To answer that with
because this is my home and I'd rather stick around
and you know, try to affect change inasmuch as is
(03:47):
humanly possible.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Like Margaret chose said, I choose to stay and fight.
You know, that's a dilemma a lot of people deal with,
and statistically, as we know, most people, at least in
the US, who are fantasizing or ideating this kind of thing,
they don't end up making the leap, And of those
who do relocate across international borders, a lot end up
(04:14):
returning within five to seven years. The past few years
here in this great experiment may have altered this once
predictable cycle. This is it, folks, you asked us, we're answering.
This is our episode on how leaving the United States works.
(04:36):
And get ready full disclosure.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
This is a cold shower and this is a cold open.
Here are the facts.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Okay, So the United States is a country of immigrants
that now hates immigration. It's strange to think about that,
and it should be acknowledged more often. If you are
not a member of an indigenous First people's Native American group,
(05:12):
then you and your ancestors, or you and your ancestors
were immigrants at some point, right, I mean, the whole
idea of this nation, the entire methodology, is founded by
European exiles. They didn't, you know, they didn't wake up
in Massachusetts.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
A nation of immigrants, I mean, and a nation formed
by protests and formed you know, by being against those
that would seek to control us, you know, from Afar,
and then of course you've got places like New York
City and Ellis Island, and you know, these mass immigrations
and just the way it changed this country into what
(05:55):
it is. And I hate the term kind of melting pot.
It's when they taught us in school that think it's
a little weird. Now I don't know why. It just
bugs me a bit, but I guess it makes sense.
Just the idea of so many cultures living and creating
a kind of tapestry of experience that is so incredibly rich.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
We have the best food in the world.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
It's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
The thing I would just add to that, guys, is
that we have an administration that has made it a
political point to push the idea the immigration bad. And
that is one of the major problems, right, It's a
That's why it's that whole four years thing. The way
the New Yorker puts it, a tassa Abrahemian. She says,
(06:41):
every four years, a group of Americans threatens to leave
the country. These proclamations tend to take place in early
November and involve Canada. No mass exodus occurs, however, this
time around, Americans seem to be acting on their desires,
speaking specifically about the time we're living in right now,
right because of how hard this political push from a
(07:01):
single administration has been.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
And I was curious as to you know, how many
people a year roughly are you renouncing their citizenship because
Ben you pointed out recently in a news article I
believe on Strange News that the government or the State
Department recently cut the renunciation fee from twenty three hundred
dollars roughly between twenty fourteen and twenty twenty three to
only four hundred and fifty bucks in twenty twenty four,
which kind of makes sense, I guess, with the idea
(07:25):
of let's get rid of as many people as possible,
and only about two thousand to five thousand people do
this every year, but in twenty twenty it was a
record year where give or take sixty seven hundred people
did that. So I'd be curious to see how those
trends continue now that the fee.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Is a little cheaper. Yeah, And guys, I want to
get back to what we're setting up earlier, the fact
that a country founded upon the idea of immigration is
aggressively unethically hitting against the stuff the founding fathers said
(08:01):
they wanted to happen. The idea of immigration versus immigration
has put the Uncle Sam character into an ethical minefield.
We have a long history of weaponizing immigration in the
United States, largely for ideological or racial purposes, and nowadays
(08:23):
we are in a new era of mass deportation. The
current presidential administration campaigned on what they called immigration reform
and I'm using single fingers instead of double fingers for
the air quote there, and they have taken wide ranging,
(08:43):
diplomatically put controversial steps to accelerate immigration or ice monitoring,
to fast track detainment, apprehension, and overall residency in ways
that cause serious concerns. Now, going back to what you
were there, No, we have to look at the statistics.
(09:03):
Within just the first one hundred days of this year
of twenty twenty six, we're recording on June twenty third,
the United States has arrested over sixty six thousand individuals
and removed more than sixty five thousand. These are levels
(09:24):
that had not been seen in recent years the current administration,
and I don't apologize for getting political here. The current
administration has openly pursued what it calls the largest mass
deportation effort in all of United States history, targeting an
(09:46):
estimated ten million people. And just for comparison, just so
you know, we're not spinning tails, and no political party
pays us here. In twenty twenty five, over the entirety
of that year, there were around two hundred and seven
thousand deportations, and that paled in comparison to the previous
(10:11):
year in twenty twenty four under and don't get mad
at us, this is a fact, under the Biden administration,
there were more deportations. There were two hundred seventy one thousand,
four hundred and eighty four that we know.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Of Ben, Where do those numbers come from? Just so
we haven't understand, is that official administration numbers or is
there a third party?
Speaker 3 (10:35):
There's a good primer you can check out, folks, the
Global Statistics dot com slash deportation and it's horrified that
that is a thing you could. Also, the issue is
now that you will find people similar to our conversation
regarding what constitutes an enemy combatant or a prisoner of war,
(10:59):
you will find various international and domestic institutions. Indeed, disagreeing
on what counts as a deportee or someone being deported.
The current potus, the current presidential administration, their stance is
(11:20):
often going to imply that these people being detained and
deported are criminals. But we do not have to look
far to see cases of innocent people being captured. We're
talking about children getting separated from their parents, people being
sent to countries with languages that they don't speak, People
(11:45):
who are even legal residents or indeed citizens, are getting
caught up in this mass movement. They're getting pushed out
of the system, which means, for our purposes tonight, terrifyingly enough,
one of the most common ways to leave these United
(12:05):
States is to be deported. The largest group of people
leaving the US or doing so against their will doesn't
get brought up in a lot of conversations about expats
and immigration with an E, but it is crucial we
(12:26):
we answer that one at top. We have to address it.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
We do, And I'm also I'm curious as to like,
I mean, obviously, the Trump administration has made quite the
show of all of this, you know, you know, closing
the open borders that were the Biden administration was responsible
for allegedly, and you know, this whole campaign of mass deportation,
but you're saying that the Biden administration actually had bigger numbers.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
In twenty twenty four, under the Biden administration, more people
were deported than in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
I mean, the Trump administration would be in its you know,
the duration of the remainder of the term, hoping to
exceed that number. I imagine, right.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yes, but it also just goes to show the trend
it is.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
But it also just goes to show that is the
big show. Really, does it really make that big of
a difference.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Yeah, especially when we have something like three hundred and
twenty four million people in this country. When we're when
we're talking about leaving the United States. To be clear, folks,
where you asked, we're responding. When we're talking about leaving
the United States, a lot of these conversations focus not
(13:39):
on deportation, but on the idea of leaving voluntarily. So
you're snagging that new passport, you know, you're you're marrying
that spouse from a foreign country who is very appealing
and definitely puts up with a lot of paperwork, or
you're getting a job to sponsor your residency and so on.
(14:01):
We've got to look at the stats that, like you
were saying no, back in twenty twenty five, something very interesting,
if not disturbing, occurred. More people left the US then
moved to the US. That is a trend that we
(14:22):
haven't seen since back in nineteen thirty five amid the
Great Depression. So estimates are suggesting now that at least
one hundred and eighty thousand or so US citizens relocated
overseas in their mind permanently over twenty twenty five. The
(14:44):
true number is probably higher.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Then I found that on a place called Global Citizen Solutions.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Right to a consultancy firm.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, And this is the thing I'm finding, at least
I found in my research, and I don't know if
you've found it too. There are a ton of consultancies
of organizations that are not associated with a government necessarily
or like directly, that aren't even a full statistics house
or anything like that or analytics house. They seem to
(15:18):
have some kind of reason to exist to in some
way to make profit when it comes to helping people
get out of countries and move to other countries. And
I was just wondering because that's where I found those
statistics as well, but I couldn't back them up anywhere,
and I was trying to figure out, are these are
some of these groups trying to get people to move
(15:41):
out of countries for a reason that we just don't understand,
or maybe I don't understand.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yeah, that's an interesting question. Of course, people who are
going to sell you a car are going to People
who are trying to sell you a car are going
to tell you a lot about how awesome a car is, right,
and we've.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Got to get what are they selling.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
They're making a commission on consultancy fees.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
So if someone successfully does one of the plan a
versions where someone moves in by investing two hundred and
fifty thousand dollars in Saint Kitts, they get a cut
of that. That's what we think, Like, is that what
we're imagining.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
It doesn't matter what I think, that's true. It's how
consultancy works. Yeah, those fees go atop the fourth easiest
way to leave the United States, which is going to
be residency via investment, which we definitely have to get
to have. You guys thought about moving outside of the
(16:51):
United States.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
I've got to go plan for sure, you know, if
things get a certain level of awful. Yes, keep it
to myself for now, but.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Definitely, Hell no, baby, I'm going down with this ship.
I had a dream about it last night.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
What the hell's crazy? Now?
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Yes, it's not unusual for people to feel this way.
Like we talked about, there's this cyclical wax and weighing
and rise and fall of interest in leaving your home
ground and lighting out for the territories. As Mark Twain
would say, experts are predicting or I guess the tea
(17:33):
leaves they're reading lead them to say that there is
a rise in people attempting to leave the United States
on a permanent basis. It's due to a mix of
economic pressure and lifestyle changes, you know, rising housing costs,
everyday expenses, food, healthcare since we still don't have developed
(17:57):
country healthcare that drives people the US to go to
places like Portugal, t Island or Indonesia.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
For sure, I did just want to like give give
the US a maybe potentially a little ada. Boy, did
you all hear about this bipartisan affordable housing effort that's
waiting for I believe Senate approval I.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Hope it goes through.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
No, are they scrapping all the data centers and putting
in housing?
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Well, it's cute. Well, maybe we are seeing some folks
withdrawing some of these data centers, though it does seem
me well, at least the ice detention center, that's not
the same as a data center, which was a win, right, Matt,
Wasn't that right there in your own backyard, the one
that they oh, yeah, to not do.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
We're going to talk about Social Circle and the failed
attempt at a detention center there, ha, which.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Is really quickly I'm referring to this thing called the
twenty first Century Road to Housing Act Hr. Sixty six
y four to four, which is in some way addressing
the national affordability crisis and the ability of giant developers
and corporations to outbid regular people. This would be an
effort to build more affordable housing. So don't know much
(19:03):
about it beyond that, but it does seem potentially, you know, good.
But all these other countries, to y'all's point, so far ahead.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
So far ahead everywhere, and we appreciate that update, noal,
And we've got to keep an eye on those sorts
of development in particular. We do know that a big
part of why there are more people moving from the
United States different countries, A big part of it is
(19:32):
due to remote work. You know, it's pretty common for
your hopefully favorite podcast hosts to travel around the world
and take our remote recording kits with us. We do
that on a temporary basis, usually for a week or two.
But other Americans are going to relocate and keep their
(19:56):
US based careers going strong. It's a whole complicated hustle.
We'll get into what these folks believe. It is worth it.
This complication is worth it because if you live in
a country with a lower cost of living and you
have a US salary, still that goes much much further
(20:19):
down the line. You know, you can live broken Boston
with two roommates, or you can live rich as a
king in Southeast Asia. So a lot of or Latin America,
I should say, shout out the Belize, a lot of
this goes into it. Well.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
A big problem with that scenario though, is if you're
maintaining citizenship, you have to pay taxes twice right unless yeah,
the country has you know, a special arrangement with the US,
and I know we're going to get into it in
a moment, just and I think it'sport to point out here.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Yeah, and beyond the economics most importantly, and I hope
this is important for all of us. I hope I'm
not speaking out of school. One of the most important
things we have to realize is that a great many
people who are seeking to emigrate from the United States
are doing so not for self interested financial reasons at all.
(21:17):
It's because they are threatened by new laws and policies,
especially hot button issues like abortion or LGTBQI rights which
are under threat. So from their perspective, which I hope
everybody listening can understand, from their perspective, they have to
(21:37):
move because they have to preserve the physical safety of themselves,
their families, and their loved ones. And let's not diminish
that that is the kind of thing that makes families move.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, no diminishing here, I don't think. The one thing
we should also point out is that people are generally
waking up to how things are.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
It does seem that way to at least a degree.
There's only so much you can ask someone to ignore,
you know, what their eyes behold, And it does seem
like we're hopefully getting past some of that.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I would like to think we're just seeing that the
folks that are supposed to be in charge in this
country and many other countries are ones that just take
bribes and make money for themselves and their friends and
enrich the people around them while taking advantage of everybody else.
People who can't take losses on a company to get
out of taxes, they have to just pay taxes on
(22:34):
their income, and they have to have an income so
they can pay rent and buy food and support families.
You know, we I think humanity is just seeing Oh wait,
the USA, the United States of America is one of
the biggest offenders when it comes to all out corruption.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Well yeah, I mean the fact that, like you know,
a lot of these millionaires and billionaires and now trillionaires
don't even have to pay themselves an income because they
can just leverage their stockholdings into borrowing money for whatever
they want and then never actually have to pay taxes
on the holdings because they haven't actually sold anything.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
And you know, we're talking about the people who are choosing, well,
whatever their demographic mix or socioeconomic position is, they're choosing
to leave the United States. Perhaps because the desire to
do so, perhaps because they feel they must. Unless you
(23:32):
are very wealthy, the people choosing to relocate are always
going to have an uphill battle ahead. You know. The
one thing that is for sure, the one sacricaint axiom
here is that money makes it easier always. And if
you are planning to leave, first off, it was great
(23:54):
to hang out with you and let us know if
we can sleep on your couch. But if you can
afford it, you definitely should look into hiring a legal
expert or a consultancy firm. That's our tease for later
to help you through all the paperwork because it differs
widely country via country. The biggest question here is how
(24:17):
does leaving the United States actually work? We have good news,
we have bad news, and the answers may surprise you.
Here's where it gets crazy. Guys. We're talking with some
of our more cynical fellow conspiracy realist to pointed out
(24:43):
the four main quote unquote easiest pathways to leaving the US,
which we'll get to. But I think a lot a
lot of the assumptions have to be broken down. And
here's where it gets crazy, which is first off, for
decades post World War two US citizens, we all had
(25:06):
this degree of assumed entitlement. I'm from the United States.
Everyone speaks English. I can go where I wish and
where I will. But that's not quite true, because countries
all love American money and investment, but loving American immigration
(25:27):
is a whole different bag of badgers. Like you, guys
have moved before. It's stressful to move from one domicile
to the next, even in the same city. Right, It's awful.
They say.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
It's almost as bad as losing a loved one or
going through a divorce or something like that. Like moving
in terms of its stress on the body and the psyche.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah, I remember, Noel when you were moving Matt and
I came through to help you with a move. I
love helping people move, but it does, like I could
see the stress because moving becomes a second job immediately.
You got to find your new place, You got to
pack all your stuff well.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
And you never have enough time. You always have to
get out by a certain deadline and try as you
might to get everything ready, the cleaning and all of that,
the transferring of the stuff, getting into the new place,
whatever it might be. There's never it never.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Feels like there's enough time, right, it's always the time
that defeats us. It's the true finite resource. And then
if we imagine moving outside of the United States, moving
from one country to the next, these complications the only disacerbate.
Now you've got to pay another government for all sorts
(26:45):
of things. You got to pay a consultancy agency. We're
going to get to You got to spend hours sorting
stuff out with embassies and agencies. You might have to
marry that lady you have been dating or that person
unless you're very, very wealthy. You're going to also have
to wait a long time to legally move to a
(27:06):
different country. For example, even in even in Canada. Right now,
if you're if you're the average Johnny Blue Jeans or
Jane Blue Jeans in the US, you're going to have
to wait six months to one hundred and twenty months
to move to Canada. The waiting line is long. Oh,
(27:30):
it's also going to cost you thousands of dollars minimum.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Yeah, I know, we're going to get to it. But
it's not like it's I mean, leaving the country is
its own thing. And then there's what is it going
to take for another country to welcome me or me
and my family with open arms, and of course that
varies widely from country to country.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, that's a great point. Here. Here, we'll give it
to you. We'll give you the cynical answer. Nobody be
mad at us, or if you are mad at us,
please hit up our complaint department. Jonathan Strickland at iHeartRadio
dot com. The four most cynical easiest ways to leave
(28:12):
the United States or the following one be deported, two
be rich, three be related to someone either through ancestry
or marriage, and then of course four die. I don't
think we I don't think we have to spend a
much too much time on dying.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Well, are the other possibilities you could get hired? Right?
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Oh yeah, we're doing the most the cynical, easiest for
And you're absolutely right, Matt, that that's the best path for,
you know, our average American. And we've talked about deportation
earlier in other episodes, and obviously dying is kind of
a dead end. So what if we talk about what
(29:02):
if we talk about those those other two before we
get to the average American? What if we talk about
gaining residency through ancestry or marriage, have you guys ever
thought about having a you know, thought about taking it
to the next level to could get residency in a
(29:24):
you know, insert country here.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
Sure, I mean sadly, I was born in another country,
but I was not born to natives of that country,
so I got nothing going for me in that department.
But it is the kind of thing where people can
even find that out about themselves later in life, right
where they have like a distant relative or something that
has citizenship, and if they do the homework and fill
out paperwork, it is possible to make that into a
(29:50):
path for citizenship for that person.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Yeah, one hundred percent. Because what you're talking about there
is this idea of residency by ancestry or citizenship by dissent.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
So every country doesn't offer that either, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
So we have we have something called right of soil
in the United States, uh, which certain political factions hate
and they're wrong and they're being dicks about it. The
idea of the United States is in part that if
you are born here, you automatically, by virtue of geography,
(30:28):
become a US citizen. Other countries don't play the same game.
A lot of countries have something called juice sanguinos or
right of blood, which means kind of like what you're saying,
it used to be you. If you're a child, you
are you have a god given right to your father's nationality,
(30:52):
and then later it got extended to your mother's nationality,
and then even further it got extended to your ancestor,
street and general. So if you like your dear old
granddad is from Dublin, you can apply for Irish residency,
but it's limited. It only goes back so far.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
And those both of those terms. Bet I can't help
but think about nativist kind of lines of thought, the idea,
the notion of blood and soil. Those are literally combining
those two concepts, and that is a big part of
the rhetoric around white nationalism, this idea of being a
native and the native son and all of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Yeah, yeah, and we kind of skipped over it, but
it bears mentioning. We have to address it. If you
live in the United States, regardless of your personal affiliations,
you're probably familiar with the stereotype of the so called
green card marriage, and that's this argument that a lot
(31:57):
of people from other countries, developing countries specifically will marry
a US citizen, not for love, but for the legal
perks of gaining citizenship in the United States. We're happy
to report that is a that is a BS story
up there with the story of the of Reagan's welfare.
(32:20):
Queen's right. It's a common misconception marrying someone will it
will give you residency in a lot of countries, but
it won't automatically give you citizenship. You still have to
have the naturalization process that can take years and years
(32:43):
and years if you're an ancestor. That's interesting, especially with
Canada's new policy.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I think that is a good line to kind of
put in the sand there the difference between citizenship and residency.
And I do feel like in some of these times
where it feels to some folks like an emergency, we
have to get out of here. I have to get
out of here, residency would be plenty, right. You don't
have to just become a citizen of another place. That's
(33:12):
not maybe the end goal. The immediate goal at least
is escape for one reason or another and establish yourself
in a different country on soil far away from the
place that you're running from, which you know is the
case often for refugees right in any country, especially their
war horns, asylum seeking right or or you know, literally
(33:36):
like running away for sure.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Sure, and we know the idea of ancestry residency. It's
very common in a lot of countries, especially those who
practice what we mentioned before right of blood. Canada, interestingly enough,
(34:01):
past a similar policy that says, hey, you United States
residents who are about forty eight percent of the people
who want to live here, if you got a granddad
in Quebec, go for it. You know what I mean,
tell us if you can speak French. So this is
a pretty cool thing, especially if you are able to
(34:26):
pull a residency via ancestry in any EU country. So
the European Union is a lot like the US in
that you know, if you live in say Utah or
New Hampshire, you can move to Oklahoma, or to Georgia
(34:48):
or to California, because it's all considered part of the
same place. So if you get your old granddad to
posthumously prove that you can live in Ireland and you
decide you'd rather live in Germany than bully for you,
it is all perfectly legal. It's still gonna take some time,
(35:12):
and I know We've talked about this in the past.
This is one of the ones that mystifies us the most.
The next easiest of our four cynical options is, of course,
to be wealthy. To be rich. Guys, how much money
do we.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
Have between us? We're gonna pool our resources and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
how much I'm not gonna say, but yeah. There are
certain countries I know, for example, like New Zealand, where
it does require making a sizable contribution to the coffers
of that country. And that's how you get in the door.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
There's several different ways, right, you can get like you
can be a digital nomad, you can be have a
passive income and they'll let you in as long as
they know you're making money. Or you could, as you
guys are saying, you can just invest a craft ton
of money into and that the crap ton varies widely
between countries.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
It does for a long time. The well, hang on,
let me take it back and put it this way.
To your point, Noel, this is why we hear about
billionaires relocating to Buenos Aires, Argentina, or to Auckland, New Zealand,
seemingly overnight. It's pay to play citizenship it is a
(36:31):
residency or citizenship by investment. You'll hear it called the
Golden passport, where the Golden visa. The thing is a
government will invite foreign money in, often through real estate
or through development projects, and if you give them enough money,
(36:51):
they will let you live there, like Italy. Italy will
make you Italian for two hundred fifty thousand euros one
time payment. You have to live there for several years. Also,
the most affordable one for many years was Paraguay.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
And where certainly, or at least Trump was trying to
do that over here with the Trump Gold Card. And
I think that was to the tune of a million bucks.
And I think they only flipped like one or two,
and there was a big show made of him giving
one to Nicki Minaj, of course, but I think it
was quite a flop in terms of, yeah, what it
was intended to do, which was of course generate you know, revenue.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
It's real pickle because it makes sense if we exercise
empathy for the countries involved. It makes sense that you
would want an income stream from very wealthy individuals, but
it also makes sense if we are to exercise empathy
for everybody who is not the leaders of those nations.
(37:57):
It's super controversial. To put it plainly, this is very
attractive to well healed criminals. This is very attractive to
corrupt officials who might take their little vigoroush or page
lick got off the top. These programs generate tons of cash.
But also they've got you, They've got me run into
(38:18):
the laundry like there's something smelly on me. This is
how people clean money, especially if they're freeholds or what
are they called freeports.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
Yeah, we got a hold up episode about that we
did recently.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
So the last thing about these golden visas, these golden passports,
which always remind me of I think remind all of
us have what's his name, Charlie. What's Charlie's last name, Bucket,
Charlie Bucket, that's right, yeah, Charlie and the chocolate factory.
You cannot open a candy bar and get an automatic
(38:54):
golden visa unless maybe your dad's of Russian oligarc The
thing is, this is still controversial that to the point
that you will hear one country or another swearing to
international press that they are going to tighten their investor
citizenship regulations, usually right after another corruption case gets exposed.
(39:20):
And here's the thing. When they say they're tightening those regulations,
they mean they're going to charge people more. So, no
more two hundred and fifty thousand euros. Now it'll be,
you know, three hundred and ten thousand euros, et cetera,
et cetera. Maybe they'll do some background checks. But I
think the question on the mind for all of us
(39:43):
now is having learned all this, we're saying, Hey, Ben
Matt Noel, Tennessee, I live in the US. I'm not rich.
I haven't married aforeign national. I don't have ancestry in
one of those countries would let me in. So I'm
an average American. What do I do if I need
(40:06):
to find a way out? We'll tell you after a
word from our sponsors, and we've returned. So we're not rich,
we haven't married a foreign national, we don't have the
nepotistic connection of citizenship via ancestry. So what are we
(40:29):
to do?
Speaker 4 (40:30):
Cry?
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Yeah, or go to school? Maybe? I think a lot
of grad students cry during dissertations. Yeah. So, as we
were saying, a lot of people get residency through scholarship, right,
various countries will say you can come here to study
and if you are a good kid, depending on your
(40:54):
language proficiency in your area of study and whether you
get a job offer upon graduation, then you're good to go.
Or you could have, like you were saying earlier, Matt,
you could have a job that sponsors you. One of
the most famous examples of those would be teaching English,
(41:15):
particularly in Asian countries. Do you guys know anybody who
taught English abroad?
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Yeah, I met three awesome guys in guitar who came
from London or rather the UK and now teach English
there in Qatar to kids of billionaires. And it's really
they have a very cool life.
Speaker 4 (41:36):
It seems very interesting.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
That's a pretty good way to go, right, because we
also know multi national corporations will sponsor people if you know,
we need our man in Hong Kong or what have you.
The issue is that your legal residency is contingent upon
that job and the approval of your employer until a
(42:00):
certain amount of time passes. There's another thing you mentioned,
Matt that really stood out, which is trying for refugee status.
Oh my gosh, you guys know how much other countries
hate it when US nationals apply for refugee status or
(42:20):
for political asylum.
Speaker 4 (42:22):
Well, we certainly don't like it. It seems like at
least that's part of a big, you know, fiery rhetoric
around all this anti immigration stuff. Is that I don't know, man,
it was even like it feels like the term asylum
was being misused and that the President was talking about
people coming from insane asylums when he was actually referring
to asylum seekers, although that's never even fully been cleared
(42:45):
up as to the intent there. But yeah, no, it
certainly seems like a lot of folks wouldn't care for it.
But it's become a big part of the rhetoric of
this administration for sure.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
Yeah, the US doesn't outwardly seem like a country that
that is dangerous enough to run from. Right, the world
doesn't perceive the United States as a country run by
a regime that would hunt down people, although I would
(43:15):
argue that we have seen some of that change quite
a bit.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Yeah, you know, you should be warned if you live
in the United States that most of the countries you
probably want to move to are not going to vibe
with the idea of you being someone seeking asylum or
seeking refugee status because they're policies by and large are
(43:44):
prioritizing people who are in active war zones, in active
state collapse, or in imminent physical danger because of if
they don't escape their home country due to ideology, ethnicity,
or sexual identity, they will be murdered. So it's performative
(44:08):
to a lot of those countries to hear an American
say I don't like the current president, so I want
refugee status, And then they're looking at all these other
people who are being mowed down in the streets right
of a collapsing nation, and they're saying, why you good
news kind of there are places on the planet that
(44:32):
will accept you applying for political asylum. They are places
like Russia and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. And
I think, didn't we have a story recently on Strange
News about a guy who moved to Russia as a
political asylum applicant.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
Yeah, I don't quite remember the details of it, but
I know that Russia was kind of making that easy,
if I'm not mistaken, almost as like a f you
to the United States.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Yeah, as a political as a political move and as
we recall from that strange news program, things did not
end up super well. We've also got to mention the
issue is if you don't have a lot of money,
you can spend a lot of time. You can find
(45:24):
the top three countries you're thinking of, research them obsessively,
contact their embassies, save as much money as you can,
be ready to wait for a long time, and be
aware that these other countries prioritize a certain set of skills. Right,
so if you are a nurse, it is way easier
(45:46):
for you to move that. If you are saying no
offense to US podcasters, I mean, I'm not up to date.
I don't know if Switzerland has a news statement that
says podcasters.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Well, it's a really interesting concept, the idea of a skilled,
highly skilled worker. I imagine there are a lot of things
that you could be highly skilled in, and I do
feel like maybe talking on a microphone and holding a
conversation with other people could be considered something of high skill.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
Or we could go for, as you mentioned earlier, your
remote work nomad visa. This is a weird bouncy boy.
It's way more affordable for most Americans, but it does
not give you a permanent home. You're going to end
up in a situation where you have your window of
(46:40):
time right, and then you have to leave the country
for a reset period and then you can come back
for the same visa. Hence the word nomad. So it's
not uncommon for people to bounce around, bounce around different countries.
Use right, I'm in Thailand one day, I'm in Vietnam
(47:05):
the next. Yeah, I'm in Malta for a second, just
to get my stamp, you know, just when have my stamp.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
I'm trying to see how long you can actually stay
in Malta with their Digital Nomad visa. I'm having a
hard time looking on that Global Solutions one. I didn't
realize I was on their website again.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Looking for this. Damn it.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
They've got cues see the timeframe.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
Oh and we've got a brag real quick, by the way,
about the fact that we actually know somebody who visited
Malta in person. It's none other than our pal Josh
Clark of stuff you should know, who will also be
hanging out with us and hopefully you on the high
seas very soon.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Oh yes, I wonder what the digital nomad visa is
like for Bermuda, which is where we're headed.
Speaker 4 (47:57):
International waters Man, International waters Oh, I'm saying that the
rules are different out there.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
We're gonna do so much stuff on and off the ship.
We do hope you can join us. We understand if
you cannot, it's a big old commitment, but we would
love to see you there if it's possible.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
Stuff at Sea October two through the seventh. We're not
only joining old Josh Malta Clark, but also our pal
Chuck Bryant of stuff you should know, as well as
Annie and Sam of stuff Mom never told you. And
make sure you have your passport in order. Yeah, International
(48:34):
waters I think that made sense.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
I think all of this made sense.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
We hope all of this made sense. We also want
you to know, folks, that other countries don't necessarily want
US nationals there. The global order is increasingly breaking down.
Nationalism is on the rise across the board. If you
make it to a place, if you get residency and
(49:01):
naturalization and citizenship, you have to remember that a lot
of those countries are still going to have people who
want to scapegoat immigration whenever something goes wrong. And it's
an important point to make, so let's follow up real
quick on the great question we teased earlier, do you
(49:23):
keep your US citizenship? Do you renounce it unless you
are a billionaire? Actually maybe, especially if you're a billionaire.
The big question is this taxation. No matter where you live,
if you are a US citizen, no matter what you do,
you still legally have to pay taxes in the United
(49:45):
States for sure.
Speaker 4 (49:47):
And when we were talking about that earlier, about how
the costs of the renunciation fee has gone down, that
doesn't mean that the taxing, the taxation element has gone down.
In fact, based on various you know, tax sort of
codes and schedules, it could well be that you're paying
more to renounce today than you would have, you know,
(50:10):
when the actual on paper fee was higher.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Dude, guys, I'm looking at some really exciting stuff on
the IRS website.
Speaker 4 (50:18):
I don't know whatever, I can't wait to hear it.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
A couple of things called the FIGHTEE or the Foreign
Earned Income Exclusion. This is really exciting. As I said,
if you meet certain requirements, you might qualify for this
whole Foreign Earned income exclusion or the Foreign housing exclusion
or maybe even the foreign housing deduction. Oh all you
(50:46):
got to do to claim these benefits you have to
have foreign earned income, your tax home must be in
a foreign country, and you must be one of the
following as a huge list of different things in different
things you have to meet for different income levels. Fascinating,
And hey, that's not all guys. There's also f bar
(51:07):
sense familiar. It sounds like food bar, but it's just
f bar. It's a report of Foreign bank and Financial accounts,
which is a whole other thing. The IRS dot gov
website is going to help you out with.
Speaker 3 (51:19):
A what's a tax home?
Speaker 2 (51:21):
A tax home is where are you the country wherein
you are paying taxes, the primary home country where you
are living in paying taxes.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
Yeah, so let's just imagine you're living in a country
that has great quality of life like Scandinavian country or
the Low countries, and then you have to pony up
your income to Uncle Sam unless you hit the right
pinball or lottery arrangement that you just mentioned there, Matt
(51:51):
on IRS dot gov. You're already going to have a
lower salary if you are taking payment from a EU
A country or a non US country, and you can
find yourself in a heck of a pickle if you
don't plan carefully. The thing is right for all of
(52:11):
us who love money, all the mam and worshippers out there.
The issue is that if you renounce your US citizenship,
things can also get complicated. The Department of State is
no longer required, maybe not even allowed, to give you
(52:31):
safe passage out if things go south, and as Noel
mentioned earlier in tonight's episode, you do have to pay
a fee as one last little I don't know if
Netflix is going to beat my middle finger, so I'll
do a ring finger, one last fu for renouncing your citizenship.
(52:53):
And it's very, very difficult to unrenounce or regain your citizenship.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
It's quite yeah, once you're out, nobody wants you back in.
You already betrayed us. Found this thing, guys called GTFO Tours.
Did you find that anywhere in the research? It's very funny.
It's called GTFO Tours. It's a it's a tiny little
mom and mom store that was set up by Bethany
(53:19):
Quinn and Janna Lynn Sanchez and they founded it after
they moved to the Netherlands from the United States of
America and now they do this whole consultancy thing. Like
we mentioned earlier on in this episode, there are folks
out there, companies out there, giant corporations, it appears, out
there that want to help you along the process, including
(53:42):
giving you things like maybe a guided tour or at
least they'll set you up with an itinerary so you
can check out different parts of the Netherlands so you
can decide you want to move here. And it is
a bit murky because you're just trying to figure out, well,
how do these folks make money? What's going on?
Speaker 4 (53:57):
What is this?
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Oh, relocations services as a consultancy they offer Okay, that
makes sense. That's how they that's why it's a business,
and it makes money. It does make you wonder if
you could do a digital nomad visa if you went
something you know along as we're gonna set up a
website and we're gonna help people move to the Netherlands
as consultants. Can we have a visa now please?
Speaker 3 (54:21):
Yeah? Can we have an outfit that makes digital nomad
visa provider visas like how Matroshka? Can we get with it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (54:32):
And we only know about that because of awesome reporting
out of the New Yorker. Appreciate that again ATASA, Abrahamming.
Speaker 3 (54:38):
And as always. Folks, if you'd like more information on
sources that we have that we have used in the
course of these expirations, please hit us up directly. With
so many people wondering about leaving the US permanently, we've
been excited to explore this tricky concept on air with more.
(55:00):
Most importantly you, there is one conspiratorial silver bullet solution
to leaving the country for good. It is having a
ton of money. That is the stuff they don't want
you to know. We'd love to hear your thoughts, especially
if you are an expat, a nomad, if you have
relocated on a temporary or permanent basis, Hit us up.
(55:22):
You can find us on the lines. You can call
us on a phone. You can always send us an email.
Speaker 4 (55:27):
That's right. You can find us all over the internet
at the handles Conspiracy Stuff or Conspiracy Stuff Show, depending
on which social media platform you go for, and there
are other ways to get in touch with us as well.
Speaker 2 (55:37):
You can call our number. It is one eight three
three STDWYK. Where did you come from? Where did you go?
Where did you come from?
Speaker 3 (55:46):
Cotton Ny Joe?
Speaker 2 (55:47):
Right, you curious caller of our voicemail system. You uh
and when you call and give yourself a cool nickname
and let us know what you think about this episode.
If you have any ideas for future episodes, anything at all,
you can also send us an email.
Speaker 3 (56:01):
We are one of the best ways to contact us.
Speaker 4 (56:03):
Folks.
Speaker 3 (56:03):
Hit us up at conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com, give
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Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Noah.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
They called me Ben, and you can too. We're joined
as always with our super producer, Dylan the Tennessee Val Fagan.
Most importantly, you are you. You are here for now,
and that makes this the stuff they don't want you
to know. Following up on a previous episode regarding a
(00:53):
passage of people geopolitically, the thing we will call prisoner exchanges.
We start working on this quite some time ago. Guys,
I think it's fair to say that at some point
in life, virtually every human being, wherever they live, has
(01:14):
fantasized about, you know, that big move. You know, maybe
I'll go to La I'll go to Hollywood, I'll go
to New York, I'll go to Poughkeepsie, I might go
to Japan, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
And so I think that's true for many, and certainly
for us. I think there are definitely people that might
just not even think about it though too, But for
the purposes of this episode, one hundred percent, it's definitely
a thing that all of us have thought about and
entertained and you know kind of I guess satiated in
many ways by being able to travel.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, well, it's kind of a crazy thing. We all
have that moment when we're younger and we have been
learning whatever we've been learning from our our parents or guardians,
whoever we're around, whatever institution may be, is controlling. We're
learning a lot of things. But there's a moment when
you realize just how big the world is, and how
different places look in other parts of that world, right,
(02:10):
and how different people look in different customs, and you
just start to really understand how big this place is,
and you know, and then you maybe kind of ride
that feeling for a little while until you become an
adult and you have to pay bills and you're like, oh, crap,
maybe I don't want to live on the other side
of the world.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Maybe this is maybe this is in for me, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Or maybe if you have the means, you realize that
Earth is one big escape room. So if I'm Elon Musk,
for instance, maybe I can become the world's first trillionaire
by selling the idea of a passage to Mars. It's
so weird that, especially in the United States, guys, there's
(02:53):
a cyclical wax and wade of people who say they're
leaving this country for a good dag nab it. And
it usually occurs in step with economic instability like the
Great Depression, or in step with political headwinds. You know,
a democrat wins the uh, wins the seed of commander
(03:16):
in chief, and there are a bunch of people who,
probably with high dudgeon and theater, are saying, oh, now
I'm gonna move away because these socialists are so bad.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Well yeah, And then there's also the version of it
where you know, the people who are criticizing a government
or a political situation they don't like are answered by
their opposition with well, if you hate it so much,
why don't you just leave now? To answer that with
because this is my home and I'd rather stick around
and you know, try to affect change inasmuch as is
(03:47):
humanly possible.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Like Margaret chose said, I choose to stay and fight.
You know, that's a dilemma a lot of people deal with,
and statistically, as we know, most people, at least in
the US, who are fantasizing or ideating this kind of thing,
they don't end up making the leap, And of those
who do relocate across international borders, a lot end up
(04:14):
returning within five to seven years. The past few years
here in this great experiment may have altered this once
predictable cycle. This is it, folks, you asked us, we're answering.
This is our episode on how leaving the United States works.
(04:36):
And get ready full disclosure.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
This is a cold shower and this is a cold open.
Here are the facts.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Okay, So the United States is a country of immigrants
that now hates immigration. It's strange to think about that,
and it should be acknowledged more often. If you are
not a member of an indigenous First people's Native American group,
(05:12):
then you and your ancestors, or you and your ancestors
were immigrants at some point, right, I mean, the whole
idea of this nation, the entire methodology, is founded by
European exiles. They didn't, you know, they didn't wake up
in Massachusetts.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
A nation of immigrants, I mean, and a nation formed
by protests and formed you know, by being against those
that would seek to control us, you know, from Afar,
and then of course you've got places like New York
City and Ellis Island, and you know, these mass immigrations
and just the way it changed this country into what
(05:55):
it is. And I hate the term kind of melting pot.
It's when they taught us in school that think it's
a little weird. Now I don't know why. It just
bugs me a bit, but I guess it makes sense.
Just the idea of so many cultures living and creating
a kind of tapestry of experience that is so incredibly rich.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
We have the best food in the world.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
It's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
The thing I would just add to that, guys, is
that we have an administration that has made it a
political point to push the idea the immigration bad. And
that is one of the major problems, right, It's a
That's why it's that whole four years thing. The way
the New Yorker puts it, a tassa Abrahemian. She says,
(06:41):
every four years, a group of Americans threatens to leave
the country. These proclamations tend to take place in early
November and involve Canada. No mass exodus occurs, however, this
time around, Americans seem to be acting on their desires,
speaking specifically about the time we're living in right now,
right because of how hard this political push from a
(07:01):
single administration has been.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
And I was curious as to you know, how many
people a year roughly are you renouncing their citizenship because
Ben you pointed out recently in a news article I
believe on Strange News that the government or the State
Department recently cut the renunciation fee from twenty three hundred
dollars roughly between twenty fourteen and twenty twenty three to
only four hundred and fifty bucks in twenty twenty four,
which kind of makes sense, I guess, with the idea
(07:25):
of let's get rid of as many people as possible,
and only about two thousand to five thousand people do
this every year, but in twenty twenty it was a
record year where give or take sixty seven hundred people
did that. So I'd be curious to see how those
trends continue now that the fee.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Is a little cheaper. Yeah, And guys, I want to
get back to what we're setting up earlier, the fact
that a country founded upon the idea of immigration is
aggressively unethically hitting against the stuff the founding fathers said
(08:01):
they wanted to happen. The idea of immigration versus immigration
has put the Uncle Sam character into an ethical minefield.
We have a long history of weaponizing immigration in the
United States, largely for ideological or racial purposes, and nowadays
(08:23):
we are in a new era of mass deportation. The
current presidential administration campaigned on what they called immigration reform
and I'm using single fingers instead of double fingers for
the air quote there, and they have taken wide ranging,
(08:43):
diplomatically put controversial steps to accelerate immigration or ice monitoring,
to fast track detainment, apprehension, and overall residency in ways
that cause serious concerns. Now, going back to what you
were there, No, we have to look at the statistics.
(09:03):
Within just the first one hundred days of this year
of twenty twenty six, we're recording on June twenty third,
the United States has arrested over sixty six thousand individuals
and removed more than sixty five thousand. These are levels
(09:24):
that had not been seen in recent years the current administration,
and I don't apologize for getting political here. The current
administration has openly pursued what it calls the largest mass
deportation effort in all of United States history, targeting an
(09:46):
estimated ten million people. And just for comparison, just so
you know, we're not spinning tails, and no political party
pays us here. In twenty twenty five, over the entirety
of that year, there were around two hundred and seven
thousand deportations, and that paled in comparison to the previous
(10:11):
year in twenty twenty four under and don't get mad
at us, this is a fact, under the Biden administration,
there were more deportations. There were two hundred seventy one thousand,
four hundred and eighty four that we know.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Of Ben, Where do those numbers come from? Just so
we haven't understand, is that official administration numbers or is
there a third party?
Speaker 3 (10:35):
There's a good primer you can check out, folks, the
Global Statistics dot com slash deportation and it's horrified that
that is a thing you could. Also, the issue is
now that you will find people similar to our conversation
regarding what constitutes an enemy combatant or a prisoner of war,
(10:59):
you will find various international and domestic institutions. Indeed, disagreeing
on what counts as a deportee or someone being deported.
The current potus, the current presidential administration, their stance is
(11:20):
often going to imply that these people being detained and
deported are criminals. But we do not have to look
far to see cases of innocent people being captured. We're
talking about children getting separated from their parents, people being
sent to countries with languages that they don't speak, People
(11:45):
who are even legal residents or indeed citizens, are getting
caught up in this mass movement. They're getting pushed out
of the system, which means, for our purposes tonight, terrifyingly enough,
one of the most common ways to leave these United
(12:05):
States is to be deported. The largest group of people
leaving the US or doing so against their will doesn't
get brought up in a lot of conversations about expats
and immigration with an E, but it is crucial we
(12:26):
we answer that one at top. We have to address it.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
We do, And I'm also I'm curious as to like,
I mean, obviously, the Trump administration has made quite the
show of all of this, you know, you know, closing
the open borders that were the Biden administration was responsible
for allegedly, and you know, this whole campaign of mass deportation,
but you're saying that the Biden administration actually had bigger numbers.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
In twenty twenty four, under the Biden administration, more people
were deported than in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
I mean, the Trump administration would be in its you know,
the duration of the remainder of the term, hoping to
exceed that number. I imagine, right.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yes, but it also just goes to show the trend
it is.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
But it also just goes to show that is the
big show. Really, does it really make that big of
a difference.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Yeah, especially when we have something like three hundred and
twenty four million people in this country. When we're when
we're talking about leaving the United States. To be clear, folks,
where you asked, we're responding. When we're talking about leaving
the United States, a lot of these conversations focus not
(13:39):
on deportation, but on the idea of leaving voluntarily. So
you're snagging that new passport, you know, you're you're marrying
that spouse from a foreign country who is very appealing
and definitely puts up with a lot of paperwork, or
you're getting a job to sponsor your residency and so on.
(14:01):
We've got to look at the stats that, like you
were saying no, back in twenty twenty five, something very interesting,
if not disturbing, occurred. More people left the US then
moved to the US. That is a trend that we
(14:22):
haven't seen since back in nineteen thirty five amid the
Great Depression. So estimates are suggesting now that at least
one hundred and eighty thousand or so US citizens relocated
overseas in their mind permanently over twenty twenty five. The
(14:44):
true number is probably higher.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Then I found that on a place called Global Citizen Solutions.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Right to a consultancy firm.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, And this is the thing I'm finding, at least
I found in my research, and I don't know if
you've found it too. There are a ton of consultancies
of organizations that are not associated with a government necessarily
or like directly, that aren't even a full statistics house
or anything like that or analytics house. They seem to
(15:18):
have some kind of reason to exist to in some
way to make profit when it comes to helping people
get out of countries and move to other countries. And
I was just wondering because that's where I found those
statistics as well, but I couldn't back them up anywhere,
and I was trying to figure out, are these are
some of these groups trying to get people to move
(15:41):
out of countries for a reason that we just don't understand,
or maybe I don't understand.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yeah, that's an interesting question. Of course, people who are
going to sell you a car are going to People
who are trying to sell you a car are going
to tell you a lot about how awesome a car is, right,
and we've.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Got to get what are they selling.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
They're making a commission on consultancy fees.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
So if someone successfully does one of the plan a
versions where someone moves in by investing two hundred and
fifty thousand dollars in Saint Kitts, they get a cut
of that. That's what we think, Like, is that what
we're imagining.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
It doesn't matter what I think, that's true. It's how
consultancy works. Yeah, those fees go atop the fourth easiest
way to leave the United States, which is going to
be residency via investment, which we definitely have to get
to have. You guys thought about moving outside of the
(16:51):
United States.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
I've got to go plan for sure, you know, if
things get a certain level of awful. Yes, keep it
to myself for now, but.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Definitely, Hell no, baby, I'm going down with this ship.
I had a dream about it last night.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
What the hell's crazy? Now?
Speaker 3 (17:10):
Yes, it's not unusual for people to feel this way.
Like we talked about, there's this cyclical wax and weighing
and rise and fall of interest in leaving your home
ground and lighting out for the territories. As Mark Twain
would say, experts are predicting or I guess the tea
(17:33):
leaves they're reading lead them to say that there is
a rise in people attempting to leave the United States
on a permanent basis. It's due to a mix of
economic pressure and lifestyle changes, you know, rising housing costs,
everyday expenses, food, healthcare since we still don't have developed
(17:57):
country healthcare that drives people the US to go to
places like Portugal, t Island or Indonesia.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
For sure, I did just want to like give give
the US a maybe potentially a little ada. Boy, did
you all hear about this bipartisan affordable housing effort that's
waiting for I believe Senate approval I.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Hope it goes through.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
No, are they scrapping all the data centers and putting
in housing?
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Well, it's cute. Well, maybe we are seeing some folks
withdrawing some of these data centers, though it does seem
me well, at least the ice detention center, that's not
the same as a data center, which was a win, right, Matt,
Wasn't that right there in your own backyard, the one
that they oh, yeah, to not do.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
We're going to talk about Social Circle and the failed
attempt at a detention center there, ha, which.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Is really quickly I'm referring to this thing called the
twenty first Century Road to Housing Act Hr. Sixty six
y four to four, which is in some way addressing
the national affordability crisis and the ability of giant developers
and corporations to outbid regular people. This would be an
effort to build more affordable housing. So don't know much
(19:03):
about it beyond that, but it does seem potentially, you know, good.
But all these other countries, to y'all's point, so far ahead.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
So far ahead everywhere, and we appreciate that update, noal,
And we've got to keep an eye on those sorts
of development in particular. We do know that a big
part of why there are more people moving from the
United States different countries, A big part of it is
(19:32):
due to remote work. You know, it's pretty common for
your hopefully favorite podcast hosts to travel around the world
and take our remote recording kits with us. We do
that on a temporary basis, usually for a week or two.
But other Americans are going to relocate and keep their
(19:56):
US based careers going strong. It's a whole complicated hustle.
We'll get into what these folks believe. It is worth it.
This complication is worth it because if you live in
a country with a lower cost of living and you
have a US salary, still that goes much much further
(20:19):
down the line. You know, you can live broken Boston
with two roommates, or you can live rich as a
king in Southeast Asia. So a lot of or Latin America,
I should say, shout out the Belize, a lot of
this goes into it. Well.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
A big problem with that scenario though, is if you're
maintaining citizenship, you have to pay taxes twice right unless yeah,
the country has you know, a special arrangement with the US,
and I know we're going to get into it in
a moment, just and I think it'sport to point out here.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Yeah, and beyond the economics most importantly, and I hope
this is important for all of us. I hope I'm
not speaking out of school. One of the most important
things we have to realize is that a great many
people who are seeking to emigrate from the United States
are doing so not for self interested financial reasons at all.
(21:17):
It's because they are threatened by new laws and policies,
especially hot button issues like abortion or LGTBQI rights which
are under threat. So from their perspective, which I hope
everybody listening can understand, from their perspective, they have to
(21:37):
move because they have to preserve the physical safety of themselves,
their families, and their loved ones. And let's not diminish
that that is the kind of thing that makes families move.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, no diminishing here, I don't think. The one thing
we should also point out is that people are generally
waking up to how things are.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
It does seem that way to at least a degree.
There's only so much you can ask someone to ignore,
you know, what their eyes behold, And it does seem
like we're hopefully getting past some of that.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I would like to think we're just seeing that the
folks that are supposed to be in charge in this
country and many other countries are ones that just take
bribes and make money for themselves and their friends and
enrich the people around them while taking advantage of everybody else.
People who can't take losses on a company to get
out of taxes, they have to just pay taxes on
(22:34):
their income, and they have to have an income so
they can pay rent and buy food and support families.
You know, we I think humanity is just seeing Oh wait,
the USA, the United States of America is one of
the biggest offenders when it comes to all out corruption.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
Well yeah, I mean the fact that, like you know,
a lot of these millionaires and billionaires and now trillionaires
don't even have to pay themselves an income because they
can just leverage their stockholdings into borrowing money for whatever
they want and then never actually have to pay taxes
on the holdings because they haven't actually sold anything.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
And you know, we're talking about the people who are choosing, well,
whatever their demographic mix or socioeconomic position is, they're choosing
to leave the United States. Perhaps because the desire to
do so, perhaps because they feel they must. Unless you
(23:32):
are very wealthy, the people choosing to relocate are always
going to have an uphill battle ahead. You know. The
one thing that is for sure, the one sacricaint axiom
here is that money makes it easier always. And if
you are planning to leave, first off, it was great
(23:54):
to hang out with you and let us know if
we can sleep on your couch. But if you can
afford it, you definitely should look into hiring a legal
expert or a consultancy firm. That's our tease for later
to help you through all the paperwork because it differs
widely country via country. The biggest question here is how
(24:17):
does leaving the United States actually work? We have good news,
we have bad news, and the answers may surprise you.
Here's where it gets crazy. Guys. We're talking with some
of our more cynical fellow conspiracy realist to pointed out
(24:43):
the four main quote unquote easiest pathways to leaving the US,
which we'll get to. But I think a lot a
lot of the assumptions have to be broken down. And
here's where it gets crazy, which is first off, for
decades post World War two US citizens, we all had
(25:06):
this degree of assumed entitlement. I'm from the United States.
Everyone speaks English. I can go where I wish and
where I will. But that's not quite true, because countries
all love American money and investment, but loving American immigration
(25:27):
is a whole different bag of badgers. Like you, guys
have moved before. It's stressful to move from one domicile
to the next, even in the same city. Right, It's awful.
They say.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
It's almost as bad as losing a loved one or
going through a divorce or something like that. Like moving
in terms of its stress on the body and the psyche.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Yeah, I remember, Noel when you were moving Matt and
I came through to help you with a move. I
love helping people move, but it does, like I could
see the stress because moving becomes a second job immediately.
You got to find your new place, You got to
pack all your stuff well.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
And you never have enough time. You always have to
get out by a certain deadline and try as you
might to get everything ready, the cleaning and all of that,
the transferring of the stuff, getting into the new place,
whatever it might be. There's never it never.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Feels like there's enough time, right, it's always the time
that defeats us. It's the true finite resource. And then
if we imagine moving outside of the United States, moving
from one country to the next, these complications the only disacerbate.
Now you've got to pay another government for all sorts
(26:45):
of things. You got to pay a consultancy agency. We're
going to get to You got to spend hours sorting
stuff out with embassies and agencies. You might have to
marry that lady you have been dating or that person
unless you're very, very wealthy. You're going to also have
to wait a long time to legally move to a
(27:06):
different country. For example, even in even in Canada. Right now,
if you're if you're the average Johnny Blue Jeans or
Jane Blue Jeans in the US, you're going to have
to wait six months to one hundred and twenty months
to move to Canada. The waiting line is long. Oh,
(27:30):
it's also going to cost you thousands of dollars minimum.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
Yeah, I know, we're going to get to it. But
it's not like it's I mean, leaving the country is
its own thing. And then there's what is it going
to take for another country to welcome me or me
and my family with open arms, and of course that
varies widely from country to country.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, that's a great point. Here. Here, we'll give it
to you. We'll give you the cynical answer. Nobody be
mad at us, or if you are mad at us,
please hit up our complaint department. Jonathan Strickland at iHeartRadio
dot com. The four most cynical easiest ways to leave
(28:12):
the United States or the following one be deported, two
be rich, three be related to someone either through ancestry
or marriage, and then of course four die. I don't
think we I don't think we have to spend a
much too much time on dying.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Well, are the other possibilities you could get hired? Right?
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Oh yeah, we're doing the most the cynical, easiest for
And you're absolutely right, Matt, that that's the best path for,
you know, our average American. And we've talked about deportation
earlier in other episodes, and obviously dying is kind of
a dead end. So what if we talk about what
(29:02):
if we talk about those those other two before we
get to the average American? What if we talk about
gaining residency through ancestry or marriage, have you guys ever
thought about having a you know, thought about taking it
to the next level to could get residency in a
(29:24):
you know, insert country here.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
Sure, I mean sadly, I was born in another country,
but I was not born to natives of that country,
so I got nothing going for me in that department.
But it is the kind of thing where people can
even find that out about themselves later in life, right
where they have like a distant relative or something that
has citizenship, and if they do the homework and fill
out paperwork, it is possible to make that into a
(29:50):
path for citizenship for that person.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Yeah, one hundred percent. Because what you're talking about there
is this idea of residency by ancestry or citizenship by dissent.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
So every country doesn't offer that either, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
So we have we have something called right of soil
in the United States, uh, which certain political factions hate
and they're wrong and they're being dicks about it. The
idea of the United States is in part that if
you are born here, you automatically, by virtue of geography,
(30:28):
become a US citizen. Other countries don't play the same game.
A lot of countries have something called juice sanguinos or
right of blood, which means kind of like what you're saying,
it used to be you. If you're a child, you
are you have a god given right to your father's nationality,
(30:52):
and then later it got extended to your mother's nationality,
and then even further it got extended to your ancestor,
street and general. So if you like your dear old
granddad is from Dublin, you can apply for Irish residency,
but it's limited. It only goes back so far.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
And those both of those terms. Bet I can't help
but think about nativist kind of lines of thought, the idea,
the notion of blood and soil. Those are literally combining
those two concepts, and that is a big part of
the rhetoric around white nationalism, this idea of being a
native and the native son and all of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Yeah, yeah, and we kind of skipped over it, but
it bears mentioning. We have to address it. If you
live in the United States, regardless of your personal affiliations,
you're probably familiar with the stereotype of the so called
green card marriage, and that's this argument that a lot
(31:57):
of people from other countries, developing countries specifically will marry
a US citizen, not for love, but for the legal
perks of gaining citizenship in the United States. We're happy
to report that is a that is a BS story
up there with the story of the of Reagan's welfare.
(32:20):
Queen's right. It's a common misconception marrying someone will it
will give you residency in a lot of countries, but
it won't automatically give you citizenship. You still have to
have the naturalization process that can take years and years
(32:43):
and years if you're an ancestor. That's interesting, especially with
Canada's new policy.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I think that is a good line to kind of
put in the sand there the difference between citizenship and residency.
And I do feel like in some of these times
where it feels to some folks like an emergency, we
have to get out of here. I have to get
out of here, residency would be plenty, right. You don't
have to just become a citizen of another place. That's
(33:12):
not maybe the end goal. The immediate goal at least
is escape for one reason or another and establish yourself
in a different country on soil far away from the
place that you're running from, which you know is the
case often for refugees right in any country, especially their
war horns, asylum seeking right or or you know, literally
(33:36):
like running away for sure.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Sure, and we know the idea of ancestry residency. It's
very common in a lot of countries, especially those who
practice what we mentioned before right of blood. Canada, interestingly enough,
(34:01):
past a similar policy that says, hey, you United States
residents who are about forty eight percent of the people
who want to live here, if you got a granddad
in Quebec, go for it. You know what I mean,
tell us if you can speak French. So this is
a pretty cool thing, especially if you are able to
(34:26):
pull a residency via ancestry in any EU country. So
the European Union is a lot like the US in
that you know, if you live in say Utah or
New Hampshire, you can move to Oklahoma, or to Georgia
(34:48):
or to California, because it's all considered part of the
same place. So if you get your old granddad to
posthumously prove that you can live in Ireland and you
decide you'd rather live in Germany than bully for you,
it is all perfectly legal. It's still gonna take some time,
(35:12):
and I know We've talked about this in the past.
This is one of the ones that mystifies us the most.
The next easiest of our four cynical options is, of course,
to be wealthy. To be rich. Guys, how much money
do we.
Speaker 4 (35:31):
Have between us? We're gonna pool our resources and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
how much I'm not gonna say, but yeah. There are
certain countries I know, for example, like New Zealand, where
it does require making a sizable contribution to the coffers
of that country. And that's how you get in the door.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
There's several different ways, right, you can get like you
can be a digital nomad, you can be have a
passive income and they'll let you in as long as
they know you're making money. Or you could, as you
guys are saying, you can just invest a craft ton
of money into and that the crap ton varies widely
between countries.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
It does for a long time. The well, hang on,
let me take it back and put it this way.
To your point, Noel, this is why we hear about
billionaires relocating to Buenos Aires, Argentina, or to Auckland, New Zealand,
seemingly overnight. It's pay to play citizenship it is a
(36:31):
residency or citizenship by investment. You'll hear it called the
Golden passport, where the Golden visa. The thing is a
government will invite foreign money in, often through real estate
or through development projects, and if you give them enough money,
(36:51):
they will let you live there, like Italy. Italy will
make you Italian for two hundred fifty thousand euros one
time payment. You have to live there for several years. Also,
the most affordable one for many years was Paraguay.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
And where certainly, or at least Trump was trying to
do that over here with the Trump Gold Card. And
I think that was to the tune of a million bucks.
And I think they only flipped like one or two,
and there was a big show made of him giving
one to Nicki Minaj, of course, but I think it
was quite a flop in terms of, yeah, what it
was intended to do, which was of course generate you know, revenue.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
It's real pickle because it makes sense if we exercise
empathy for the countries involved. It makes sense that you
would want an income stream from very wealthy individuals, but
it also makes sense if we are to exercise empathy
for everybody who is not the leaders of those nations.
(37:57):
It's super controversial. To put it plainly, this is very
attractive to well healed criminals. This is very attractive to
corrupt officials who might take their little vigoroush or page
lick got off the top. These programs generate tons of cash.
But also they've got you, They've got me run into
(38:18):
the laundry like there's something smelly on me. This is
how people clean money, especially if they're freeholds or what
are they called freeports.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
Yeah, we got a hold up episode about that we
did recently.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
So the last thing about these golden visas, these golden passports,
which always remind me of I think remind all of
us have what's his name, Charlie. What's Charlie's last name, Bucket,
Charlie Bucket, that's right, yeah, Charlie and the chocolate factory.
You cannot open a candy bar and get an automatic
(38:54):
golden visa unless maybe your dad's of Russian oligarc The
thing is, this is still controversial that to the point
that you will hear one country or another swearing to
international press that they are going to tighten their investor
citizenship regulations, usually right after another corruption case gets exposed.
(39:20):
And here's the thing. When they say they're tightening those regulations,
they mean they're going to charge people more. So, no
more two hundred and fifty thousand euros. Now it'll be,
you know, three hundred and ten thousand euros, et cetera,
et cetera. Maybe they'll do some background checks. But I
think the question on the mind for all of us
(39:43):
now is having learned all this, we're saying, Hey, Ben
Matt Noel, Tennessee, I live in the US. I'm not rich.
I haven't married aforeign national. I don't have ancestry in
one of those countries would let me in. So I'm
an average American. What do I do if I need
(40:06):
to find a way out? We'll tell you after a
word from our sponsors, and we've returned. So we're not rich,
we haven't married a foreign national, we don't have the
nepotistic connection of citizenship via ancestry. So what are we
(40:29):
to do?
Speaker 4 (40:30):
Cry?
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Yeah, or go to school? Maybe? I think a lot
of grad students cry during dissertations. Yeah. So, as we
were saying, a lot of people get residency through scholarship, right,
various countries will say you can come here to study
and if you are a good kid, depending on your
(40:54):
language proficiency in your area of study and whether you
get a job offer upon graduation, then you're good to go.
Or you could have, like you were saying earlier, Matt,
you could have a job that sponsors you. One of
the most famous examples of those would be teaching English,
(41:15):
particularly in Asian countries. Do you guys know anybody who
taught English abroad?
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Yeah, I met three awesome guys in guitar who came
from London or rather the UK and now teach English
there in Qatar to kids of billionaires. And it's really
they have a very cool life.
Speaker 4 (41:36):
It seems very interesting.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
That's a pretty good way to go, right, because we
also know multi national corporations will sponsor people if you know,
we need our man in Hong Kong or what have you.
The issue is that your legal residency is contingent upon
that job and the approval of your employer until a
(42:00):
certain amount of time passes. There's another thing you mentioned,
Matt that really stood out, which is trying for refugee status.
Oh my gosh, you guys know how much other countries
hate it when US nationals apply for refugee status or
(42:20):
for political asylum.
Speaker 4 (42:22):
Well, we certainly don't like it. It seems like at
least that's part of a big, you know, fiery rhetoric
around all this anti immigration stuff. Is that I don't know, man,
it was even like it feels like the term asylum
was being misused and that the President was talking about
people coming from insane asylums when he was actually referring
to asylum seekers, although that's never even fully been cleared
(42:45):
up as to the intent there. But yeah, no, it
certainly seems like a lot of folks wouldn't care for it.
But it's become a big part of the rhetoric of
this administration for sure.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
Yeah, the US doesn't outwardly seem like a country that
that is dangerous enough to run from. Right, the world
doesn't perceive the United States as a country run by
a regime that would hunt down people, although I would
(43:15):
argue that we have seen some of that change quite
a bit.
Speaker 3 (43:18):
Yeah, you know, you should be warned if you live
in the United States that most of the countries you
probably want to move to are not going to vibe
with the idea of you being someone seeking asylum or
seeking refugee status because they're policies by and large are
(43:44):
prioritizing people who are in active war zones, in active
state collapse, or in imminent physical danger because of if
they don't escape their home country due to ideology, ethnicity,
or sexual identity, they will be murdered. So it's performative
(44:08):
to a lot of those countries to hear an American
say I don't like the current president, so I want
refugee status, And then they're looking at all these other
people who are being mowed down in the streets right
of a collapsing nation, and they're saying, why you good
news kind of there are places on the planet that
(44:32):
will accept you applying for political asylum. They are places
like Russia and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. And
I think, didn't we have a story recently on Strange
News about a guy who moved to Russia as a
political asylum applicant.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
Yeah, I don't quite remember the details of it, but
I know that Russia was kind of making that easy,
if I'm not mistaken, almost as like a f you
to the United States.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Yeah, as a political as a political move and as
we recall from that strange news program, things did not
end up super well. We've also got to mention the
issue is if you don't have a lot of money,
you can spend a lot of time. You can find
(45:24):
the top three countries you're thinking of, research them obsessively,
contact their embassies, save as much money as you can,
be ready to wait for a long time, and be
aware that these other countries prioritize a certain set of skills. Right,
so if you are a nurse, it is way easier
(45:46):
for you to move that. If you are saying no
offense to US podcasters, I mean, I'm not up to date.
I don't know if Switzerland has a news statement that
says podcasters.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Well, it's a really interesting concept, the idea of a skilled,
highly skilled worker. I imagine there are a lot of things
that you could be highly skilled in, and I do
feel like maybe talking on a microphone and holding a
conversation with other people could be considered something of high skill.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
Or we could go for, as you mentioned earlier, your
remote work nomad visa. This is a weird bouncy boy.
It's way more affordable for most Americans, but it does
not give you a permanent home. You're going to end
up in a situation where you have your window of
(46:40):
time right, and then you have to leave the country
for a reset period and then you can come back
for the same visa. Hence the word nomad. So it's
not uncommon for people to bounce around, bounce around different countries.
Use right, I'm in Thailand one day, I'm in Vietnam
(47:05):
the next. Yeah, I'm in Malta for a second, just
to get my stamp, you know, just when have my stamp.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
I'm trying to see how long you can actually stay
in Malta with their Digital Nomad visa. I'm having a
hard time looking on that Global Solutions one. I didn't
realize I was on their website again.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
Looking for this. Damn it.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
They've got cues see the timeframe.
Speaker 3 (47:32):
Oh and we've got a brag real quick, by the way,
about the fact that we actually know somebody who visited
Malta in person. It's none other than our pal Josh
Clark of stuff you should know, who will also be
hanging out with us and hopefully you on the high
seas very soon.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Oh yes, I wonder what the digital nomad visa is
like for Bermuda, which is where we're headed.
Speaker 4 (47:57):
International waters Man, International waters Oh, I'm saying that the
rules are different out there.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
We're gonna do so much stuff on and off the ship.
We do hope you can join us. We understand if
you cannot, it's a big old commitment, but we would
love to see you there if it's possible.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
Stuff at Sea October two through the seventh. We're not
only joining old Josh Malta Clark, but also our pal
Chuck Bryant of stuff you should know, as well as
Annie and Sam of stuff Mom never told you. And
make sure you have your passport in order. Yeah, International
(48:34):
waters I think that made sense.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
I think all of this made sense.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
We hope all of this made sense. We also want
you to know, folks, that other countries don't necessarily want
US nationals there. The global order is increasingly breaking down.
Nationalism is on the rise across the board. If you
make it to a place, if you get residency and
(49:01):
naturalization and citizenship, you have to remember that a lot
of those countries are still going to have people who
want to scapegoat immigration whenever something goes wrong. And it's
an important point to make, so let's follow up real
quick on the great question we teased earlier, do you
(49:23):
keep your US citizenship? Do you renounce it unless you
are a billionaire? Actually maybe, especially if you're a billionaire.
The big question is this taxation. No matter where you live,
if you are a US citizen, no matter what you do,
you still legally have to pay taxes in the United
(49:45):
States for sure.
Speaker 4 (49:47):
And when we were talking about that earlier, about how
the costs of the renunciation fee has gone down, that
doesn't mean that the taxing, the taxation element has gone down.
In fact, based on various you know, tax sort of
codes and schedules, it could well be that you're paying
more to renounce today than you would have, you know,
(50:10):
when the actual on paper fee was higher.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Dude, guys, I'm looking at some really exciting stuff on
the IRS website.
Speaker 4 (50:18):
I don't know whatever, I can't wait to hear it.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
A couple of things called the FIGHTEE or the Foreign
Earned Income Exclusion. This is really exciting. As I said,
if you meet certain requirements, you might qualify for this
whole Foreign Earned income exclusion or the Foreign housing exclusion
or maybe even the foreign housing deduction. Oh all you
(50:46):
got to do to claim these benefits you have to
have foreign earned income, your tax home must be in
a foreign country, and you must be one of the
following as a huge list of different things in different
things you have to meet for different income levels. Fascinating,
And hey, that's not all guys. There's also f bar
(51:07):
sense familiar. It sounds like food bar, but it's just
f bar. It's a report of Foreign bank and Financial accounts,
which is a whole other thing. The IRS dot gov
website is going to help you out with.
Speaker 3 (51:19):
A what's a tax home?
Speaker 2 (51:21):
A tax home is where are you the country wherein
you are paying taxes, the primary home country where you
are living in paying taxes.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
Yeah, so let's just imagine you're living in a country
that has great quality of life like Scandinavian country or
the Low countries, and then you have to pony up
your income to Uncle Sam unless you hit the right
pinball or lottery arrangement that you just mentioned there, Matt
(51:51):
on IRS dot gov. You're already going to have a
lower salary if you are taking payment from a EU
A country or a non US country, and you can
find yourself in a heck of a pickle if you
don't plan carefully. The thing is right for all of
(52:11):
us who love money, all the mam and worshippers out there.
The issue is that if you renounce your US citizenship,
things can also get complicated. The Department of State is
no longer required, maybe not even allowed, to give you
(52:31):
safe passage out if things go south, and as Noel
mentioned earlier in tonight's episode, you do have to pay
a fee as one last little I don't know if
Netflix is going to beat my middle finger, so I'll
do a ring finger, one last fu for renouncing your citizenship.
(52:53):
And it's very, very difficult to unrenounce or regain your citizenship.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
It's quite yeah, once you're out, nobody wants you back in.
You already betrayed us. Found this thing, guys called GTFO Tours.
Did you find that anywhere in the research? It's very funny.
It's called GTFO Tours. It's a it's a tiny little
mom and mom store that was set up by Bethany
(53:19):
Quinn and Janna Lynn Sanchez and they founded it after
they moved to the Netherlands from the United States of
America and now they do this whole consultancy thing. Like
we mentioned earlier on in this episode, there are folks
out there, companies out there, giant corporations, it appears, out
there that want to help you along the process, including
(53:42):
giving you things like maybe a guided tour or at
least they'll set you up with an itinerary so you
can check out different parts of the Netherlands so you
can decide you want to move here. And it is
a bit murky because you're just trying to figure out, well,
how do these folks make money? What's going on?
Speaker 4 (53:57):
What is this?
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Oh, relocations services as a consultancy they offer Okay, that
makes sense. That's how they that's why it's a business,
and it makes money. It does make you wonder if
you could do a digital nomad visa if you went
something you know along as we're gonna set up a
website and we're gonna help people move to the Netherlands
as consultants. Can we have a visa now please?
Speaker 3 (54:21):
Yeah? Can we have an outfit that makes digital nomad
visa provider visas like how Matroshka? Can we get with it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (54:32):
And we only know about that because of awesome reporting
out of the New Yorker. Appreciate that again ATASA, Abrahamming.
Speaker 3 (54:38):
And as always. Folks, if you'd like more information on
sources that we have that we have used in the
course of these expirations, please hit us up directly. With
so many people wondering about leaving the US permanently, we've
been excited to explore this tricky concept on air with more.
(55:00):
Most importantly you, there is one conspiratorial silver bullet solution
to leaving the country for good. It is having a
ton of money. That is the stuff they don't want
you to know. We'd love to hear your thoughts, especially
if you are an expat, a nomad, if you have
relocated on a temporary or permanent basis, Hit us up.
(55:22):
You can find us on the lines. You can call
us on a phone. You can always send us an email.
Speaker 4 (55:27):
That's right. You can find us all over the internet
at the handles Conspiracy Stuff or Conspiracy Stuff Show, depending
on which social media platform you go for, and there
are other ways to get in touch with us as well.
Speaker 2 (55:37):
You can call our number. It is one eight three
three STDWYK. Where did you come from? Where did you go?
Where did you come from?
Speaker 3 (55:46):
Cotton Ny Joe?
Speaker 2 (55:47):
Right, you curious caller of our voicemail system. You uh
and when you call and give yourself a cool nickname
and let us know what you think about this episode.
If you have any ideas for future episodes, anything at all,
you can also send us an email.
Speaker 3 (56:01):
We are one of the best ways to contact us.
Speaker 4 (56:03):
Folks.
Speaker 3 (56:03):
Hit us up at conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com, give
us a random fact. We'll give you a random fact
in return. Let us know what your fellow conspiracy realist
need to understand in either a future upcoming episode, or
we may use it in our strange news or listener
mail segments. We'll see you soon.
Speaker 2 (56:42):
Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
Hosts And Creators
Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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