January 16, 2026 • 64 mins
We've all experienced it: a moment of sudden, unexplained certitude: go left, not right, says a voice in your head; stay home from work today, or pause a second longer at this traffic light. For most of us, these small, inexplicable moments come and go. But why do they exist? In tonight's episode, Ben, Matt and Noel explore why some radical physicists believe what we call 'intuition' may just be a message from the future.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
A production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Noah.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
He's back.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Most importantly, you are you.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
You are here.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.
We are so excited to return to this, guys. I
had a feeling we were going to do this very episode.
Uh huh, yeah, maybe call it intuition. Let's start there.
How much stock do you guys put in intuition?
Speaker 4 (00:58):
I just saw it in the doc so I knew,
but yes, a decent amount. I think intuition is very instinct.
I don't necessarily believe in premonitions or things like that,
but I do feel like there's a vibe. We are
vibes based, guys, and you can really, you know, you
can kind of take that to the bank sometimes.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Have you, guys, ever had as far as you're comfortable
talking about it on air or on Netflix, have either
of you guys had a moment of a strong telling intuition,
not just a hunch, but an immediate realization that you
could not explain that changed your behavior.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Hasn't happened to me yet. I'm a big educated guest
kind of guy, so I don't really know.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Man.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I'm shooting in the dark out here, just trying to
see what I can find to discover.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
I love a heuristic, that's the fancy word for it.
I think a lot of times you take in more
information than you realize. Yes, you know, that's true, And
I think sometimes that can quantitatively add up to what
you're talking about about and cause you to sort of like,
without really thinking or specifically reacting to one particular set
of circumstances. You know, have those feelings and them serve
(02:10):
you well.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, you know. It's surprising, even in an increasingly science based,
secular civilization, it is astonishing how many people, at one
point or another have experienced a powerful hunch. You get
a tinge of deja vu as this song you were
just humming plays on the radio later shout out to
(02:32):
various psychological phenomena, or you might you might be experiencing
a sudden urge to linger at a stoplight, even though
the light is turned green. Something inside of your brain
tells you to pause and lo and behold a car
barrels through that blind intersection. You have avoided an accident
(02:55):
and you don't know why, but you're happy you know
your car didn't get t boned.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
This is a huge thing in both popular culture and
in science. Is there really such thing as a coincidence?
And then how much of that looking back at things
after they've happened, and then thinking about how we've felt
about those things that happened, How much of that is
us filling in a narrative? Right?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Right? Yes, Because remembering something for the human brain is
a lot like time travel, but it's imperfect time travel
because you are recreating the memory and futs in with
it a little bit every time you encounter it.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
That reminds me my witness accounts are so unreliable.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Just so. That reminds me of a conversation I had
with one of my scariest old professors, statistics Guy, on
our very first day of class. He said, you know,
my job is to give you three tests, and my
job is to do the following office hours, and I'm
(04:00):
supposed to say all kinds of fancy stuff about statistics,
and then he leaned it and he said, your real
job here is to prove to me that any coincidence exists.
Oh yeah, cool, yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
And then he said this is no coincidence. Four out
of five of you will fail because this institute is insane,
because I know where you too.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
It's all probability, though, isn't it. I mean, it's all
this complex system of intersecting events, and each of them
have their own level of probability, and occasionally you'll get
these cross moments where some of those probabilities align, and
as patterns seeking creatures, we sometimes want to call that
(04:47):
a thing, but it really is just kind of chaos,
sort of bumping into itself. Or is it exactly exactly?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah? What's the difference between perspective and reality? This is
why the majority of scientific thought now dismisses claims of
intuition or what we would call maybe short lived precognition
or presentiment. Dismisses that as coincidence that is, in retrospect,
(05:15):
put into a narrative, a lived reality or lived perspective
of an individual human. They might also argue, like Gavin
de Becker argues that your unconscious mind is constantly putting
together sensory input that your conscious mind does not clock.
(05:37):
This is something that's great for the mentalist, which we'll
get to shout out to the Darren Browns in the crowd.
It can explain some of these occurrences. But a growing
body of controversial scientific thought argues there is more to
the story. Sometimes they say, those gut feelings are not superstition.
(05:59):
They're not you be a wackadoo. You're receiving memories from
the future, future and or your guts and.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
The vibes man read the room.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
You know what.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
It just occurred to me. The word coincidence kind of
refers to what I was talking about. It's when these
random elements coincide.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, it's just a concatenation of two things, right, Well,
concatenation would be a series of linked events which gets
into linear time. So is your intuition information from the
future violating what we understand now as the concept of
the arrow of time. We'll get into it. Here are
(06:44):
the facts, all right. Intuition it's one of those words
everybody kind of intuitively understands, but it's difficult for a
lot of people to define intuition when you straight up
ask them, tell me what this mechanism means.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
So let's jump over to Cambridge. They've got a thing
or two to say about intuition. They describe it as
knowledge from an ability to understand or know something immediately
based on your feelings rather than facts. And put this
in maybe a little simpler terms, it's knowing something without
a clear understanding of how you came to know it
or why.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, that's the easiest way to put it. And secondly,
they call it an ability to understand or know something
without needing to think about it or use reason to
discover it. So, for example, folks, we're taking a Zener
card test. Everybody who has seen Ghostbusters remembers this test
(07:46):
is that the stars and they shape in three wavy lines, right,
So intuition would be an example of this would be when,
without really thinking about it, I hold up the card
for Tennessee and he says, oh, I I know, damn it.
(08:06):
The next card is three wavy lines and Dylan is
not counting the cards. He has no deep statistical system
or methodology consciously informing the decision. He just knows. And
this is a very old idea. Throughout time and space
and human civilization, everybody has acknowledged something like this phenomenon.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
But can you can you zap intuition into people? Though?
Like in the in the movie, remember didn't they get
a zap if you got it wrong?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yes, that was a weird That was a weird riff on.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Uh, that was acentric thing.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I think it was a weird riff on some unethical experiments.
The idea that he would shock someone a mild electric
shock when they guessed the wrong card. Not very good
for science, like great for comedy. Right. The point is
that some cultures have treated this concept of intuition or
a hunch with more importance than others, but everyone again
(09:09):
has acknowledged its existence. And I think I think it's
a survival mechanism, folks. I think that like a microcosmic example,
wen't a park. Who doesn't love a park? You're at
a divergence Robert Frost style.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
If there's a trail in your local park, you've been
there before. You know one path Vera's left, the other
path Veer's right. You also know they both eventually lead
back to the entrance. They're about the same length. You know,
in terms of a walk, they just go through different
parts of the woods, but all of a sudden, right
at that divergence point, you get a hunch, you get
(09:47):
a gut flash of intuition, and it says, today we
go left, or a more ominous feeling would say go
anywhere but right.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Because that's the road less traveled by, and it's made
all the difference.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
I think, I do think for us and they go
I think it does go back to a lot of
other explorations we've done in this show about the human brains,
evolution over time, right, and the need to detect those
predators and the tiny little things, the little pieces of
evidence a predator might leave behind, or a telltale sign
that there's, let's say, a predator in a grass somewhere,
(10:21):
or you know, as we're talking about those wavy lines, right,
if you have an ability to detect small differences like
that evolutionarily, hey, your line probably did a lot better
than the ones who just kind of walk past that
grass like it's nothing and get eaten.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I hear you. I've always been a follow your gut
kind of entity personally, because like so.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
It goes back to your parents right, and it go
their parents, and their parents and their parents. It all
goes back.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Well, like so many living things in our park. Example,
given that both paths are pretty much the same, you're
probably going to follow your gut because it doesn't make
a difference. So if you're more skeptical, you'll maybe rationalize
it and say that doesn't matter either way. I just
felt like going left. But whatever that rationale may be,
(11:11):
your action remains the same. And I do think it
could be an ancient survival mechanism. You're getting free, unexplained information.
You don't know the providence of this information consciously, and
so why not stay on the safe side and go
with the flow if it's not inconvenient. It's a little
thing like a literal walk in the park for more convenience.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Factor is interesting because as we no longer maybe are
worried about the puma or something eating us on that
one path or the other, we are now intuiting which
one's going to be more convenient. Because as our intuition
is no longer maybe leaning as much on survival, does
gaps get filled in by other stuff. Inter's like whether
it be you know, convenience or the serendipitous kind of
(11:55):
you know, hearing that song again or whatever and assigning
some kind of meaning to it.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
And information on this idea of unconscious info information info.
Check out our Vibes episode, which I hope we're all
very proud of. Check out Vibes of course.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Well, you know, the only thing this doesn't explain, guys,
is the person who picks the wrong path and gets
killed or eaten.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
That's the thing, right.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Though, mechanism or they like roll the dice. It's explained retroactively.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
But well that it also goes back to the concept
that our gut feelings can be off and if and
if you're not careful, you can find yourself in a
self fulfilling prophecy. Right, So, this concept of following your
gut feelings or your intuition or something or you know,
whatever it is, it can be potentially dangerous.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
And think about how much stock people put in luck,
like in a casino or like, you know, my lucky
socks or whatever, because I won a bunch of hands
this one day where I was wearing these socks. So
you assume, or like to think rather that if you
wear the same socks you might do well again, and
maybe that the odds follow you around and things do
continue to do serendipity when you're wearing your lucky socks.
(13:04):
But at the end of the day, it is also
a numbers game.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Also, I like that example because it shows us that
quote unquote, self fulfilling prophecy can work both ways. Right,
your lucky socks and you knowing that you're wearing your
lucky socks may alter your behavior in ways that you
don't clock. That may make you more successful and give
an environment, so long as that environment is not a
(13:29):
casino because the house always wins.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
There's so many things stacked against you. Do check out
our episode we did from Vegas on how casinos put
the kibosh on your bank account.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I'm thinking about this a lot, guys, especially after some
events that took place in Minneapolis recently with law enforcement
taking action, specific action against somebody that was unarmed. It
appeared to not have any kind of criminal intent, right right.
We talked previously about law enforce training and that training
(14:01):
that you get that tries you try and teach someone
to discern whether or not someone has a gun, let's say,
or whether or not someone means harm to another or
to you as an officer of the law. Sure, and
we talked about that split second decision that has to
occur in those moments and how dangerous that can be
for both the law enforcement person and everybody else that's
(14:23):
near them.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Did y'all see the update about how that officer had
also been in a previous incident involving a vehicle where
he was injured and dragged. And I'm not making any excuses.
I'm just talking about the pattern recognition and the perhaps
using past data to guide one's actions in another situation.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
That's what I'm thinking about, because it all takes place
in the split second, right, things of that nature, and
often when we get a gut feeling it is it
is not a prolonged thing. It is something that occurs
pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah. Yeah, Like I was saying earlier, it's like a
short window micro precognition.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Right, yeah, say it.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, this is we also should say the quiet part
out loud. We are talking in part about Renee Nicole Good,
who was an amazing poet.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
By the way, say, I think that ice agent's a
bad dude, and I'm not making any excuses, and I
think this is an awful situation and absolutely unconscionable. We
are talking about patterns seeking humans in the ways brains work,
and the way these kinds of experiences can go against training.
And then what even is the training in the first place?
(15:37):
Is it enough? I likely would argue?
Speaker 3 (15:39):
And how quickly thoughts turn into actions?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Right? And let's spin out the idea? Right, yes, thought
into action, let's spin out the idea of braining. I
like that, because what we need to recognize here is
that if you are a human being, every moment you
are alive is a kind of training. Your experience of
the present is built upon your experience of the past,
(16:05):
which informs your predictive or aspirational thoughts about the future.
Because you experienced time in a linear way, that's a
little bit of a foreshadowing, we call it. It is important, though,
when we talk about hunches and gut feelings, it's mission
critical for us to establish that most people experiencing these
(16:26):
situations don't see themselves as psychics. Right, They probably don't,
you know, dither too much over these decisions. Again, as
we said, it's a short window of time, it's immediacy,
it's action. So if you think about this information too
much gets really weird. Later, when it's you in the future,
(16:48):
new information might emerge that makes you return to that
moment of intuition, that quiet, still small voice inside of you, Like,
what if our pal who took the left hand path
in the park, what if they later learned there was
a gang about a quarter mile up on the right
hand path they robbed two other partgoers that day. Our
(17:10):
hypothetical part friend is probably gonna say, dang, I wonder
if that's why I knew to go left.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Isn't the left hand path the devil's path? Ben?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
All right, we are playing a little bit.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
You got me.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I just watched that episode of The X File season
two where it's the faculty at the school dude to
a bank.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
That was the one referenced in our discussion with the host, Yes,
correc of the the devil. You know, that was the
one about the kind of satanic ritual blowing it up
into a huge watch the.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Eyes giving the eyes that part reptil, That part rocked me. Man.
So this idea happens so often, so much more than
even the most skeptical us may assume. So much so,
in fact, that we guarantee you, fellow conspiracy realists that
if you yourself have not had a moment like this yet,
(18:10):
you almost certainly know someone who has. So let's play
a game while we're all hanging out here by the campfire.
Go ask your friends and family about those moments of
powerful intuition, those flashes of gut feelings, those epiphanies. See
what they say. Their answers will surprise.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
You, dude. I have no evidence to back this up.
I just know, in particular, my mother and her mother
both have this thing that they would always talk about
a gut feeling or they knew something and they would
call me. They were like, I just knew I had
to call you, or something like that happen. That happened frequently,
(18:50):
at least in my grandmother's life, that would occur, and
my mom too. Gosh if Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
It's also the kind of thing that comes into play
when maybe meeting a new person, just getting a funny
feeling something they quite right. You don't have any data
or any knowledge of any things that this person has done,
but you get that little spidy sense that maybe there's
something not quite right, and what will that be? Micro aggressions,
little signals that your brain's picking up on that. You're
not even really acknowledging, as you know, data at all,
(19:18):
but you're taking it in nonetheless.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, and don't get me well, we're talking about family
history of alleged psychic phenomena. Don't get me started on
the luncheons, guys. Let's just say it. We're big fans
of trust in your gut.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yes, well, I just think, sorry, guys, random thought. We're
going to get into some things about the microbiome in
the human body and how it's transferred. So stuff we've
talked about you can find it on the audio podcast
if you go back in time. Sure, and then think
about mothers and how mothers literally hand down their gut
(19:53):
biomes to their children, every single one, especially if there's
breastfeeding involved in depending on the berth and all that stuff.
Either way, genetically you're handing down a certain amount and
then you're transferring more generally from being a mother. It
makes me wonder about some of that quantum entanglement weirdness
we're going to talk about, and literally the gut biome
(20:14):
of a mother and a child.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Which I guess would be part and parcel of a
concept like epigenetics. The idea of inheriting memory, of inheriting
this type of knowledge you know through your DNA.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
It's similar. Yeah, I like that comparisonal because it's it's
like a Madroshka doll of epigenetics. Right, it's the it's
the function of the biome that lives within you. And
one other point to make with that is that your biome,
your gut biome, the floor and there are changeable, so
(20:47):
your diet can affect your mileage in ways that science
is still figuring out. Look, as long as your intuition
isn't asking you to do something crazy like sta abs
of one or feel the call of the void and
swerve into oncoming traffic, your gut feelings and the decisions
you make that you feel you are making well, the
(21:10):
determinism there, they are going to be harmless largely, the
decisions you make. It's as simple as choosing between a
burrito or case idella on a menu. You know, you'll
just say I just wanted a case idea, which is
the correct answer.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Unless there's burrito a different shape.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
One can grilla burrito.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah, we haven't even gotten to berea case ideas. The
other day, excellent love a little telling you. That's But
that's the tricky part too. That's that's the secret ingredient here. Time.
If you're a human, your default factory settings of consciousness
experience time in a linear fashion. We sometimes call this
(21:59):
the arrow of time because it's a cool praise. You
move forward through life at a constant rate to you,
of one second to the next, from grad ole to grave.
But what if there is more to it than this?
What if on some level your true experience of time
goes much deeper? What if your gut knows something you
(22:22):
do not what.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
My guts.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Here's where it gets crazy, all right. We got to
introduce the legendary, the mythical, the pioneery. Don't give us
some growing applause and sometimes controversial scientist and parapsychologist Dean Radden,
(22:51):
r A d I N PhD.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
You may find this name to be familiar. A couple
of books that you might know. Super Normal, I think
is the one that probably probably most people have pinged
on at some point because it's been mentioned so many times.
Real Magic is another one, and Entangled Minds was Oh Gosh,
a fascinating book from six two thousand and six, talking
(23:16):
about interconnectedness on levels that we're now talking about, especially
with quantum mechanics and quantum entanglement and things like that.
We're talking about that on the regular as though it
is pure science. Now, well it's let's say, it's a
bleeding edge of certain science.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Farting edge, hey, ivs edge. Yeah, but I like where
you're going, man.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
But I guess what I'm saying this. This human being,
Dean Ratten, PhD, has been talking about some of these
some of the weirder aspects of time and consciousness for
a long time.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Yeah. Yeah, because look, this guy might not believe in
linear time, but his bibliography short does. Uh. And we
say that with great affection and respect. If you go
to his website. One really cool thing the good doctor
did is link a ton of his papers that you
can read for free. And be warned it's a rabbit
(24:15):
hole if you. If the academic stuff feels a little
too dry for you, go visit the slick website for
ions the Institute of Noetic Sciences work.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Backwards from the acronym for that one. It's just so
pretty good, pretty good, noetic being a fun word that
is new to me referring to things just pertaining to
the mind or intellect.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, it's just it's kind of metacognition with a tie
on or as we learned recently, nol a cravat.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Yes, or an ion a tie on cravat? What is
it again? Ben cravats? Y'all ascots are not ties.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
It's all dases or puzzles, all puzzles or mazes. Provide
is a group term for silly stuff people wear around
their neck.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
Cravat could also be a bow tie. It should be
an ascot. It could be a traditional necktie with a
windsor not.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
WHOA the more you know, Doc give check our mind.
Check out our show Ridiculous History where we learned about
that one live on air because we.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Like cravat and that was a real time Google session.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
It's true. What's the name of that thing the Western
folks wear? Sometimes it's a bullet It's my favorite.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
You guys, you know what's funny?
Speaker 4 (25:36):
That one unrelated. But if you ever want to go
to the Magic Castle in Los Angeles, they have a
pretty strict dress code. So if you ever get an invite,
it's cool magicians club thing or you can see magic shows.
You can wear a bolo tie in place of a necktie. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Oh man, I remember when you went there at West
Coast Cheek. I think it would be cool. Also, speaking
of institutions for us to visit, ions, the Institute for Sciences.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
This is it's in California as well, right, grip It
feels like it has to be just this story. Yeah,
well yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
It was founded back in seventy three, nineteen seventy three
by a guy named edgar Mitchell. Fun fact, the sixth
man to walk on Earth's moon.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
It's kind of like the second act of his career.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
They don't talk about the sixth guy really, just the
first two.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Well, this is the sixth Yes, he's well, the sixth
the sixth guy came back and you can read on
Ion's website about him. Do you guys mind if I
read a quick little quote here from their website.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yes, and he also, just to be clear, he experienced
the overview offect for.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Yeah, yeah, it says here on their website. As a
scientist and visionary doctor, Edgar Mitchell saw a need to
reconcile his training as an engineer and astrophysicist with the
wisdom of the ages to transcend the limitations of what
he saw as an outdated materialist worldview. A new framework
would be needed, one that could help explain the unexplainable
(27:10):
and spark transformation.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
And so he makes this pitch to a couple of
other people, like minded folks, including an investor named paul
In Temple. This Avengers team up of exploring the edges
of science. Right now as we're recording, they are conducting
research on all sorts of the stuff we x files
(27:34):
fans love, and a lot of modern science who poos
their efforts gut jokes. We're doing gut jokes.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
Keep them comming. Yeah, we're talking about psychic powers, all
the stuff in the intro to the show. Yeah, precognition,
tele slash, psycho kinesis. You know, all that bleeding edge
consciousness stuff, the idea of an afterlife, you know, the
good bits, all.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
This, all the good ones, all the slow jazz. If
you visit the website jazz, Yeah, if you visit their
website for that slow jazz, you can see thousands of
articles that are free to read. Right now, Just be
very well aware, folks, some of your friends and family
and loved ones in the stem fields are going to
(28:19):
immediately dismiss this work as pseudoscience or at the very worst,
a cynical rift.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Yeah, it always comes back to our interview with Russell
Targ from me, I know, I bring it up all
the time, but that dude and talking to him not
to mention that he was like the clearly the influence
for the real life was Egon Spengler. It was such
an interesting intersection of like the science and the this
sort of like this you know, sort of more out
there stuff, and he seemed to do a pretty good
(28:48):
job of kind of reconciling the two. So go back
and check out that episode to talk to him. Search
from a guy who's on the edge of that kind
of you know thought.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Thanks Doc Targ, thank you so much. What a cool
guy seriously saying it.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
But before we again, before anybody passes judgment on this thing,
take a minute to head over to their website and
look at the folks who are involved, the PhDs that
are involved in their background. So the current president, this
guy named Thomas G. Broffi or Brophy. I'm sorry, I
don't know how to pronounce that name. He was initially
at least starting out a planetary astrophysicist with the University
(29:24):
of Colorado, and this dude was a part of the
Voyager program. Guys, you remember that one h that sent
out the satellites.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
It's the Jeer in the Star Trek universe.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Oh oh, well, in this one it's Voyager.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
I know, I just spoiled an awesome Star Trek film.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
But then also in this thing in ions, you will
see that one of their board of directors, and I
don't know if this is a good thing or a
bad thing. One of the board of directors is a
guy named George Zimmer. Does anybody know that name? Do
you remember that name?
Speaker 4 (29:56):
It's really ringing a bell, Matt, but I can't put
my finger on it.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Is the founder of the Men's Warehouse, which is cool,
you know.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Issues, No, there was some weirdness with that cat, wasn't there.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
I don't know, there wasn't I just worked a commercials.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
We're definitely talking about him being into some weird stuff.
For sure, that's literally true.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
But is it super cool that he's into that stuff
or does it make you feel like the thing has
less credibility because he's into that stuff. I don't know,
He's your gut is going to tell you how you
feel about this organization.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Right, So, for our purposes tonight, let's look at their
work into the nature of the mind, precognition or presentiment
as they call it. And time. There's a popular mechanics
article that published in November of last year, twenty twenty five.
We're recording this in January of twenty twenty six. And
(30:52):
this this article went viral because so many people were
fascinated by conversations the journalists were having with Dean Ratten,
as well as his colleague Julia Mossbridge, also a PhD,
works at ions and has her own institute, the moss
(31:12):
Bridge Institute.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
It is a little weirder.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Can I just really quickly say I didn't mean to
malign mister George Zimmer. By all accounts, he was a
lovely dude, and he was fired by the company and
then went on to found his own tux company. But
apparently he was fired because he wanted to maintain a smaller,
more personalized business than the board of directors of Men's
Warehouse was not down with that. So I didn't mean
to say like there was some weirdness about George Zimmer.
(31:37):
Seems like a good.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Guy, I got some suits from there back in the day.
Oh yeahouse. I also didn't realize what you guys know.
I'm a very strange entity. I didn't realize Men's warehouse
was a pun warehouse. Right, he took me. I was
reading the label inside of one of the suit jackets,
(31:59):
went oh cool, I love a pud. Let's go to Mossbridge.
As we said, she's an's researcher, she's got her own institute.
She is additionally a senior Fellow in what they call
Human Potential at Florida Atlantic University's Center for the Future
of AI, Mind and Society. This reminds me of the
(32:22):
kind of work our legendary pal Damian Patrick Williams does.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Mm hmm. It's all about technology right in the mind
of technology and the future, very into artificial intelligence over
there in large language models.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
And Mossbridge is one hundred percent a true believer in
concepts like precognition, following one's intuition or hunch's. Mossbridge has
spoken at length about her personal experiences. Again, everybody has them, right,
growing up, things that members of our family experience. The
(32:59):
real seems that it inspired her later research as an
adult and I'd love for us to share a quote
from moss Bridge regarding precognition.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
She says, quote, It's not hard to understand precognition, it's
just hard to believe for people who haven't experienced it.
We don't understand how time works, says moss Bridge. Even
physicists are admitting they really don't know how it works.
We are stuck on this idea that if you are
truly scientific, you are going to think about time linearly.
(33:36):
But is it really linear?
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I like this because it's leaving open the question, right,
and it's leaving open the possibility to explore further right,
and not closing off any other possibilities the way we
saw with three I Atlas this past year in twenty
twenty five, right, we saw literally one scientist Harvard saying, Hey,
let's let's talk about the possibilities here, let's actually look
(34:05):
at this stuff and think about it in this way.
If only for the possibility then it could be that.
And then you had most of the rest of the
scientific community just saying no, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
And we're talking about Doc A vi Lob over there.
And I love that point because ave Lobe was not
making crazy claims in a definitive way. Doctor Lobe was saying,
or Professor Loebe was saying, we should think about this.
You know, there's nothing wrong with asking what if? That
is the beating heart of science. But then the dogma
(34:40):
comes in and things get real sticky and compartmentalized.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Yeah, Love was putting out some like very particular figures
with like the percentage of the possibility and all that that.
You're you know, you could argue with some of that stuff.
The open mindedness thing, I think though, is crucial for
right now and in the future, just to leave open
some possibilities.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, And a lot of the resistance from the Ivory
Tower to ideas about precognition and psychic phenomena. In Mossbridge's opinion,
this comes from fear, the fear of the unknown, or
the fear that, hey, maybe the ground of reality is
not as solid as I thought. You know, It's like,
(35:26):
do you ever have that moment or I'm sure you
guys have. I don't want to cast dispersion on your
ambulatory abilities, but have you ever had that moment where
you're walking upstairs, you're not really paying attention and your
body thinks there's an extra step and you have that
little oh wait, I'm at the top.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Yeah, appropriate reception off for just a moment, just a
little blip, a little glitch or something. I've had that.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
It's also like when you run into another human and
you kind of both like mirror each other and like.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Trying to Yeah, yeah, it's going down an Aisle eleven
or the farmer dude.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Just I'm sorry to jump back to three alys again, Guys,
I just recalled the piece of news came out. We're
recording this on Friday, January ninth. A piece of news
came out, like yesterday, maybe about the CIA making an
official statement that they can neither confirm nor deny any
of the documentation they have about the comment. Right, this
(36:23):
was a little weird, but I guess it's fine.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah. It could also just be a staffing issue at
this point. Okay, you know what I mean. There's like
one guy and he's running out of black high lighters
and he's still trying to get the invoice through for
his next pack at twelve.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Yeah, crap, we're almost at two percent of the Epstein files.
We need more black markers.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Sorry, guys, I told you I was taking Tuesday off.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Did you get Apparently a lot of that was done
with like Adobe Acrobat and download that you can you
can just undo the redactions.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Yes, wait what Yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:58):
At least in the first part, which partially explains the pause,
because they have to figure out their process, we kind
of go back to the black highlighters. They just eyelighters
show up that op sect my brothers in christ oh Man,
and with all this conversation about the nature of time,
which we're about to dive into, Uh, we've got to
(37:19):
take a break. We're getting into some heavy stuff. We'll
have a word from our sponsors, will be right back.
Or wait, are we all worthy there? I have a hunch.
So all of the folks at Ions or Ions, they're
(37:42):
doing really fascinating research and they believe that they they
hit upon a perspective that that is beautiful, actually beautifully
thought out. They said, what if we're asking the wrong questions?
What if we're not What if we're focusing too much
(38:02):
on the idea of predicting the future and we should
be asking what we mean when we say time? What
what are we getting wrong in our assumptions that constructed
our earlier questions?
Speaker 3 (38:17):
So it makes a flat circle bend.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Anyway, I've got to stop rewatching it, man.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
I do it all the time Detective season.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
One, and also that meme format. He's just ripping that sig.
You know that's a.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Class and uh, what's the what are some of the quotes, Oh,
the world needs bad men, Marty, we keep the other
bad men from the door.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
I also like it when then he responds, stop saying odd.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Let's smell on a psychosphere a moment, A moment for
silent flat.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
Oh the bit he actually says he miss says it.
He says, let's talk about smelling a psycho sphere, but
he actually says psychosphere. But there was.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Something where he's like, which hot meat? I can't I
can't remember the phrase. God dang, that was a good show.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
Banger of a season, banger of.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
The season, and and raddening crew at all are making
some bangers of scientific claims or at the very least
lobe style asking questions. We've got a quote from Raden
which sort of expounds on what we were teasing about.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
That's right, He notes, time is not how we experience
it on an everyday level. In quantum mechanics, time may
not even be part of our physical reality. It's not
that time doesn't exist, it's just that it behaves in
a much stranger way than how it is seen through
the lens of the human experience. I just recently watched
(39:57):
most of with my kid and their friend Interstellar, which
does a really interesting job of exploring some time dilation
and like the way times experienced differently. And I don't know,
it's like all this wormhole stuff and Einstein Rosen bridges
and all of that. Very very interesting, and I think
it tries really hard to stick pretty close to some
(40:18):
actual provable science ways of explaining this kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yeah, or at least some currently beloved speculation there. Yeah,
Interstellar is a banger. We're all figuring out this together.
I would argue that it is. It is absolutely quintessential
good science fiction because it explores the science, it explores
(40:43):
the possibility, and it keeps a human heart beating at
the core, you know, very much so.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
But humans don't experience time in the same way we
think we do what right?
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Right?
Speaker 4 (40:53):
Okay, So back to Dean go on right?
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah, yeah, okay, so you're this guy must be an
epic haank you pause for a second. You say, Doc,
what and he says, what I'm saying is our consciousnesses
are maybe able to jump outside of ordinary experience and
receive information from the past or the future. Now, before
we say that's hogwash or something, remember when he's saying
(41:20):
from the past to the future, he's also he's he's
talking about just remembering stuff.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
That's an amazing experience, which we set up at the
very top banner. You set up this idea of the
way we experience memory is a form of time travel.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Oh yeah, yes, but in this case, you are remembering
stuff that has yet to happen in your conscious experience,
but perhaps it has occurred on the great wheel of
time that is rolling through whether or not you know
what's happened, whether or not you know what's happened, whether.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
You experiencially anticipated in it. The Wheel of paw Right
High to the Dark Tower. That is a weird spoiler
for any Stephen King fans.
Speaker 4 (42:04):
I think it's too esoteric. I don't know if it's
even going to constitute a spoil for most people. It's good,
but I never made it that far in the series.
But I know that there's some good stuff in there.
Blame the train.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Blame the train. Yeah, he's a pain.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
So I know there's a lot more to explore, your guys,
But it is strange to me to imagine if this
were true. Right, coming to it from a skeptical point
of view, I think it feels like we would know
more than just a tiny gut feeling every once in
a while about what's going to happen right.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Right right, There would be some sort of determinism, you know.
We want to shout out a phenomenal book by an
MIT professor named Alan Leitman. It's called Einstein's Dreams. We've
mentioned it before, you guys, remember this one. It's a
real short book. It's a great read. It's all about
this sleepy patent clerk named Albert and he just can't
(42:56):
stay awake at his boring desk job, and every time
he goes to sleep, he has these strange dreams about
the nature of time. It's pretty good. Doc Lightman is
not paying us to say it, but if you, if
you get a chance, please read the book. It's that's
the right because you're saying, or we're saying here that
(43:20):
if this phenomenon exists, then why isn't it a bigger deal. Why,
as you said, Matt, are we just getting little little
twinkles of the future every now and then inexplicable? Why
aren't we waking up right every sunset or sunrise or
whatever and thinking immediately, Oh, I know what is going
(43:43):
to happen right at three forty five, or I know
what's going to happen on January twenty third, twenty twenty six.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
And I suppose folks that you know put forth, that
they have psychic abilities might be able to focus that
thing that maybe most of us can experience some small
little glimmer.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Of yeah, like an exercise and a muscle right, sure, yeah,
I mean, our buddy Dean has been at this so long,
for a long time, haha, time jokes.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
Well, I'm curious though about how this stuff registers on
you know, brain scanning type equipment egs. You mean that's
what I mean, Matt.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Oh yeah. Let's go back to Doc Radden's days at
the University of Nevada in the nineteen nineties. We discussed
this a little bit in a recent Strange News recording.
You can check those out. They're available wherever you find
your favorite shows. All right, so, EEG machine in what experiment.
The doc had these participants attached to EG machines and
(44:52):
then he told them, all right, you're going to press
a button, and when you press this button, there's going
to be a brief delay of five seconds, and then
an image is going to pop on the screen. The
image is either going to be negative or positive, by
which we mean you might see something like a yellow
dog bounding in the sunshine in a park, or you
(45:16):
might see a car crash. You don't know. As the participant,
you hit the button, boop, and then five four three
two one, boom the image appears. So they're not being
asked necessarily to predict this like the old Ghostbusters card experiment. Instead,
(45:37):
the EEG is measuring brain activity in that pause, in
that five seconds between when you hit the button and
when the image appears.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
This is so strange to me, and I have so
many questions about it, man, I have so many questions
just because you can if you think about it rationally,
you think, oh, well, people are now feeling anxiety before
a new image comes up, because it could be either
great or terrible, right, and so you're feeling that anxiety, right.
But their result showed that when the positive image was
(46:12):
about to come up. They didn't feel it.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, this is fascinating. This is
the controversials right. Just as just as Matt said there,
the positive image didn't really rock the EEG. No emotion
or change in brain activity however measured. But if a
negative image was on the way within that five second
(46:37):
span of time, there were spikes that occurred the brain
activity that the conscious mind of the participant was probably
not clocking. It seemed to respond to what was going
to be displayed in advance of that thing being displayed.
Speaker 4 (46:53):
So I guess if we trust this method, the study
is saying that somehow participants are able to sort of
anticipate or into it, the display of a negative image,
even though they had no way of knowing that it
was coming.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Nailed it, and one, Yeah, that's the idea. It reminds
me of I've got to pull up this study later
right to us if you want to read the full paper.
But I've got to find that study where the results
showed that people's test scores improved when they studied after
taking a test.
Speaker 4 (47:27):
We talked about that recently, and still it was a
hard one to wrap my little head around.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
I don't know if we're built for it, you guys. Yeah,
I don't know if we're built to understand it or
simply built to experience it.
Speaker 4 (47:39):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah, I keep thinking about it, the idea, I don't know.
You raised a great point there about the methodology. That's where, honestly,
the bulk of scientific thought of jets to Radden's experiments
because they say, hey, they're a thousand new poles that
you need to explain from their perspective.
Speaker 4 (48:03):
I agreed.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
I just want to put this out here, guys. I
just did a cursory search for what you were just
talking about Ben in that study because I recalled it
and I thought, well, I can pull this up really fast.
I bet we could do that. The search terms required,
test scores improve study after all of this. The way
Google and all these search things return things nowadays, it's impossible.
(48:28):
It's trying to give me a ten thousand different things
that it thinks I want. But I just need to
get better at search.
Speaker 4 (48:35):
Then you just want to return things that contain those
combinations of terms. But now the AI algorithm is like.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
You are, I want to help you to let me
give you what you need.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Here's a recipe for precognition cast role. Also, I mean,
I would argue it is indeed the stuff they don't
want you to know, because, uh, searching for anything on
the Internet is very much like casting an incantation, right,
You've got to get your your magic words correct.
Speaker 4 (49:08):
Well, especially now with what is it vibe coding or
like the way people are using these prompts, you know,
to generate crazy imagery or what have you. I mean,
that is absolutely a form of incantation something.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
But Pandora's jar is unscrewed. You know, the gin has
left the lamp, the horses out of the barn, The
good escaped. Yeah, the badgers have escaped the.
Speaker 4 (49:34):
Bag running rampant through the streets.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
They're just badgery.
Speaker 4 (49:38):
They really insist upon themselves as badgers.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
This is so unrelated, guys, But I was noctivigating. I
was out on a night walk and I ran into
a raccoon, but it was a city raccoon.
Speaker 4 (49:50):
Did you guys mirror each other's moves? Funny? This is
no you go, no, you go racoron.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
This is how weird it was. This has nothing to
do with our conversation tonight, but it's just a funny moment.
And when you said badgers, we had that catchphrase back
of badgers. It reminded me of this. It was a raccoon, right,
little raccoon guys. He's got those adorable hands, he or she.
They're digging fingers. Yeah, they're digging through some city trash.
(50:18):
And and it stops and it looks at me, and
that it slowly takes a bite of whatever it's eating,
and it choos and it stares at me, and I
didn't know what to do, so I said hey, and
then it just ignored me and went back to the trash.
Speaker 4 (50:36):
And then it says, chaos, that'd be great rubbing them together.
Speaker 5 (50:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, ah man, Because I'm thinking about there's
a few other things that have occurred or pieces of
information studies that have come out over the past couple
of years, and one of them is looking at this
exact kind of stuff, but it's looking at, in particular.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
The micro biome, the human microbiome, and whether or not
the signals going up the Vadgi's nerve that goes, you know,
down into your guts and then is connected directly up
to your brain, and whether or not literally those gut feelings,
the way your microbiome is handling stuff and signals it's
sending to your brain. If that can actually play us
(51:19):
some kind of part in warning us about something that's
about to happen, Right, So is there a linkage between
your literal gut and time somehow that we don't understand?
But then there's pieces There were pieces in here, Like
BBC Science Focus was talking about a Michigan State University
test that looked at infants, and y'all, for this test,
(51:41):
I think maybe we've even talked about this before. But
for this study, they would have infants in a room
with their parents, and they would have people coming in
and out of the room, and every once in a while,
the person going coming into the room would be wearing
a horrifying Halloween mask and they were testing to see
the child's reaction to this new person in the room
that they don't know that looks scary right, Well, but
(52:05):
the parents were there as fine, whatever traumatized kids for.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
The kids aren't going to remember, They're just gonna have
weird behavioral patterns and fixation they want them for the
rest of their lives.
Speaker 3 (52:17):
The people running this examination of how a child reacts
we're also looking at the gut microbiomes of each one
of these kids and to see whether or not stuff
going on down there is actually going to affect their
fear response to something. And then thinking about that going
back in time like is because we do inherit our
(52:39):
gut bacteria in a large part from our parents, you know,
mostly from our mothers. But as Ben you were saying earlier,
we alter that, and human society has been altering our
gut microbiomes for you know, centuries now, with how we've
changed our society, how it functions, the pollutants we put
out in there, the weird toxic stuff that we ingest.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
How how much of your biome is plastic?
Speaker 4 (53:04):
Let us know, well, apparently a credit card size amount daily.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
I was sick. I didn't pay a credit card like
a sucker. I just gotta right.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
Yeah, But I just found that fascinating thinking about that,
linking up to our not full understanding of time and
how it functions, and our not full understanding of how
our microbiome affects us. But you know, again, the bleeding
edges of those sciences are just continually moving outwards if
we keep open our minds for the weirdness.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Yeah, you always have to ask yourself, if this is true,
what does it imply right?
Speaker 4 (53:44):
If then right?
Speaker 2 (53:45):
If so, then what? And we do know this is
why I love this point. We do know that the
current research is showing the human microbiome can have an
effect on memory and learning at the very leased. So
we don't have the you know, it's like we're playing
the board game Clue, but with a thousand cards in
(54:07):
that little envelope. We're proving some stuff. We don't know
the whole story yet of the crime that we call
linear time, but we're getting there. We're getting some clues.
Speaker 3 (54:20):
So many murders Time has committed.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
So many murders. Yeah, so far, Time remains the undefeated
champion of any.
Speaker 4 (54:29):
Beat of speaking of which, check out the movie Time Crimes.
It's a really good exploration of exactly the kind of
stuff we're talking about, and a lot of these crazy
parallel versions of things and intuition and time travel, and
it also involves murder, so you know, kind of sews
it all together.
Speaker 3 (54:49):
And don't sleep on time cop I know.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
And now we have to do spacey folks, friends andabors
around the world. Fellow conspiracy realist and especially you, Sean Claude.
We apologize one time, but yeah, yeah, it was my bad.
Speaker 4 (55:11):
We're sorry. Very small man, very high kick's.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
He could hear us now, man, don't do this.
Speaker 3 (55:18):
He's at least super kindly.
Speaker 2 (55:23):
When he turned around, he was clearly giving us what
Mac from Always Sunny would call it ocular assessments. Do
these little boys the butts kick today? And he looked
at us and he thought.
Speaker 4 (55:37):
Nah, I'll let them, let them live on.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
Thank you time cop. So okay. For her part, moss
Bridge is going to argue what we were kind of
talking about earlier, and no, I believe you're the one
who mentioned this. Most people are capable of some level
of precognition or presentiment her her belief in research. This
means this doesn't mean magic, nor does it mean the
(56:02):
supernatural or divinity. It's Arthur C. Clark style. It's science
we don't understand. Therefore does seem indistinguishable from magic. And
it's worth understanding these folks are still conducting research as
we speak. I don't know, guys, We've got more to
talk to about time, like theoretical physicists such as Carlo Ravelli,
(56:26):
who say time does not exist time. Billy Corgan time is.
Speaker 4 (56:33):
You know Billy Corgan as a Cartman voice. It's it
really works. Just just think about Billy Corgan and then
insert of the Cartman voice and if they're on the
same I.
Speaker 2 (56:43):
Don't do it now because your user of mind powers, folks,
we believe in you. Also, I could totally, I would
totally tune in for a Cartman version of Melancholy.
Speaker 4 (56:54):
And the is you don't need to, It's already there.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
It's already.
Speaker 4 (57:00):
Okay.
Speaker 6 (57:00):
So this is the issue, though, folks, because all right,
so if time doesn't exist, right, if it is indeed
an illusion in just how we encounter interconnected events, the
truth is that our perception of linear time is very
(57:21):
much a lived reality.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
It is true for you that this thing has been
on for you know, around an hour or so. That
is true for you, whether or not time exists, And
folks peak behind the curtain. Regardless of who wins this
heady debate, all the world runs on some kind of clock.
We have tried it. We can guarantee you men's warehouse
(57:45):
style that you cannot be late to meetings with an
excuse note from a physicist. Okay, you can't. You can't. Really,
you can't rock up and say I'm sorry. I was
twenty minutes late. This guy from MIT wrote a note
about how time doesn't exist.
Speaker 4 (58:03):
It's technically a doctor's note.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
Technically is from a doctor.
Speaker 3 (58:07):
Yes, we were doing some non Newtonian stuff over here.
On clocks on Mars. That's fine, it's cool some real time.
Speaker 4 (58:13):
You whind me junk?
Speaker 3 (58:14):
Did you see that time the clocks do move differently
on Mars. That was recently, gosh, I think maybe a
month ago or something.
Speaker 2 (58:21):
That was.
Speaker 3 (58:23):
I think I think it was proven. But it's like
four hundred and seventy something milliseconds difference between clocks on
Mars and on Earth. And we're talking about like not
as though. We're not talking about the way the planet
moves around the Sun or anything like that, or the
way it rotates. It's just the clocks are different. Man,
time's different, right.
Speaker 4 (58:43):
Yeah, that relates to the interstellar thing, where like they
time okay, time passes differently depending on how far away
you know.
Speaker 2 (58:50):
Right, and gravitational effects. They had a lot of fun
with that one. And we're talking a little bit about
time dilation. Because Newtonian physics everybody remembers Isaac right, he
was the master of the Royal Mint.
Speaker 4 (59:03):
He did some other stuff, Yeah, No, he was a
crack forgery detective. Yes, in addition to kind of discovering
how gravity works.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
Yeah, I had a weird relationships with apples anecdotally. But okay.
Newtonian physics argues there is a single universal now. But
we had to throw that stuff out of the window
Russia style when Einstein proved time as relative.
Speaker 3 (59:28):
Had to defenestrate that thing.
Speaker 2 (59:30):
Yeah, how can you finistrates anymore? Used to go back
into windows?
Speaker 4 (59:35):
Is that when you climbed through a window like in
the Canterbury Tails.
Speaker 3 (59:39):
Time is moving so fast nowadays?
Speaker 2 (59:42):
Oh geez, well, we do know it's very much a
lived reality. Maybe we go back to intuition, where this
whole mad cap escapadegan. There is no denying that people
do experience hunches and that we can't always haunch rationalize those.
As you're joining us, now, you're going to find all
(01:00:04):
manner of scientists who are hotly debating the mechanisms of intuition.
Some of these moments can be explained through various understood
mundane things. Mentalists in particular, like the legendary Darren Brown
have a field day with unconscious sensory collection.
Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
Right, And a lot of these experts do agree that
there's still a lot more to learn about this phenomenon.
But what are we talking about?
Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Yeah, what exactly is there to learn? And where does
this strange bag of badgers leave us? You know, if
we're unraveling the hidden science of gut feelings and intuition
so figurative, literal, and cognitive, that might crack the case
for us. This might be the lead we need to
figure out once and for all the true nature of time.
Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
Dune A right, guys, I'm I'm going through something right now.
Not to get too personal or too much information, And
I'm on a round of antibiotics because of sinus infection
that was pretty heinous. Sure, and generally I wouldn't take
antibiotics because of what we learned on this show about
herd immunity and all kinds of other things that, you know, yeah,
(01:01:14):
not great to train the stuff. What an antibiotic is,
specific versions and all that stuff. But I feel a
little off, and I don't know if it's psychosomatic from
reading all these articles about our gut bacteria and how
that actually affects things or that physically a lot of
mine are currently eradicated. I'm gonna have to get some back.
(01:01:36):
They do tell you to eat probiotics when you're taking
antibacterial stuff too, when you're taking antibiotics stuff, which is
you know, smart. I guess it's just interesting to me
that I do in some way feel a bit disconnected
from that intuition thing in this moment as we're recording.
Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Yeah, I hear you, man, I think a lot of
us have experienced something similar. If you travelers spend a
lot of time in very different places with different ecosystems,
you can have a similar experience. Like when I'm on
the road for a while, I noticed something, something switches internally.
(01:02:15):
And it's not just diet, it's the other environmental variables
that change. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
Have you ever noticed a particular place that has that
distinct feeling or of like maybe a stronger effect.
Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
Yes, I'll tell you story. Yeah, we'll talk off air.
Don't blow up the spot, No, seriously, I'll tell you
off But this is where we probably call it folks.
As you can tell, this concept is endlessly fascinating to
Dylan Tennessee pal Fagan to Noel Brown, to Matt Frederick
(01:02:51):
to yours truly, they called me Ben Bullen in this
neck of the global woods. We want to hear your
thoughts past, present and future on intuition, and we know
they're going to be awesome. How do we know that.
Let's just say we have a hunch. You can give
us a phone call, you can send us an email,
and you can find us on the lines.
Speaker 4 (01:03:10):
You sure can find us on the lines at the
handle Conspiracy Stuff, where we exist on Facebook with our
Facebook group here is where it gets crazy, on XFK, Twitter,
and on YouTube where we have tons of videos for
you to consume and enjoy. On Instagram and TikTok, we're
Conspiracy Stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
Show call our phone number. It is one eight three
three std WYTK. When you call it, you got to
turn those letters into numbers, but you'll figure it out
to it. Yes, you got three minutes. Give yourself a
cool nickname and let us know within the message if
we can use it in one of our listener mail
episodes that show up in the audio feeds. So you
(01:03:47):
have to go somewhere else to check that out. It'll
be worth your time, we promise. If you want to
send us instead an email. You can do that too.
Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
We are I'm doing a creepy light. Guys, the entities
that read every piece of tour respondence we receive be
well aware, yet out afraid. Sometimes the void writes back,
maybe you've already said to us something, Maybe we've already responded.
Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
A production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Noah.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
He's back.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Most importantly, you are you.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
You are here.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.
We are so excited to return to this, guys. I
had a feeling we were going to do this very episode.
Uh huh, yeah, maybe call it intuition. Let's start there.
How much stock do you guys put in intuition?
Speaker 4 (00:58):
I just saw it in the doc so I knew,
but yes, a decent amount. I think intuition is very instinct.
I don't necessarily believe in premonitions or things like that,
but I do feel like there's a vibe. We are
vibes based, guys, and you can really, you know, you
can kind of take that to the bank sometimes.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Have you, guys, ever had as far as you're comfortable
talking about it on air or on Netflix, have either
of you guys had a moment of a strong telling intuition,
not just a hunch, but an immediate realization that you
could not explain that changed your behavior.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Hasn't happened to me yet. I'm a big educated guest
kind of guy, so I don't really know.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Man.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I'm shooting in the dark out here, just trying to
see what I can find to discover.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
I love a heuristic, that's the fancy word for it.
I think a lot of times you take in more
information than you realize. Yes, you know, that's true, And
I think sometimes that can quantitatively add up to what
you're talking about about and cause you to sort of like,
without really thinking or specifically reacting to one particular set
of circumstances. You know, have those feelings and them serve
(02:10):
you well.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yeah, you know. It's surprising, even in an increasingly science based,
secular civilization, it is astonishing how many people, at one
point or another have experienced a powerful hunch. You get
a tinge of deja vu as this song you were
just humming plays on the radio later shout out to
(02:32):
various psychological phenomena, or you might you might be experiencing
a sudden urge to linger at a stoplight, even though
the light is turned green. Something inside of your brain
tells you to pause and lo and behold a car
barrels through that blind intersection. You have avoided an accident
(02:55):
and you don't know why, but you're happy you know
your car didn't get t boned.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
This is a huge thing in both popular culture and
in science. Is there really such thing as a coincidence?
And then how much of that looking back at things
after they've happened, and then thinking about how we've felt
about those things that happened, How much of that is
us filling in a narrative? Right?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Right? Yes, Because remembering something for the human brain is
a lot like time travel, but it's imperfect time travel
because you are recreating the memory and futs in with
it a little bit every time you encounter it.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
That reminds me my witness accounts are so unreliable.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Just so. That reminds me of a conversation I had
with one of my scariest old professors, statistics Guy, on
our very first day of class. He said, you know,
my job is to give you three tests, and my
job is to do the following office hours, and I'm
(04:00):
supposed to say all kinds of fancy stuff about statistics,
and then he leaned it and he said, your real
job here is to prove to me that any coincidence exists.
Oh yeah, cool, yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
And then he said this is no coincidence. Four out
of five of you will fail because this institute is insane,
because I know where you too.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
It's all probability, though, isn't it. I mean, it's all
this complex system of intersecting events, and each of them
have their own level of probability, and occasionally you'll get
these cross moments where some of those probabilities align, and
as patterns seeking creatures, we sometimes want to call that
(04:47):
a thing, but it really is just kind of chaos,
sort of bumping into itself. Or is it exactly exactly?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah? What's the difference between perspective and reality? This is
why the majority of scientific thought now dismisses claims of
intuition or what we would call maybe short lived precognition
or presentiment. Dismisses that as coincidence that is, in retrospect,
(05:15):
put into a narrative, a lived reality or lived perspective
of an individual human. They might also argue, like Gavin
de Becker argues that your unconscious mind is constantly putting
together sensory input that your conscious mind does not clock.
(05:37):
This is something that's great for the mentalist, which we'll
get to shout out to the Darren Browns in the crowd.
It can explain some of these occurrences. But a growing
body of controversial scientific thought argues there is more to
the story. Sometimes they say, those gut feelings are not superstition.
(05:59):
They're not you be a wackadoo. You're receiving memories from
the future, future and or your guts and.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
The vibes man read the room.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
You know what.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
It just occurred to me. The word coincidence kind of
refers to what I was talking about. It's when these
random elements coincide.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, it's just a concatenation of two things, right, Well,
concatenation would be a series of linked events which gets
into linear time. So is your intuition information from the
future violating what we understand now as the concept of
the arrow of time. We'll get into it. Here are
(06:44):
the facts, all right. Intuition it's one of those words
everybody kind of intuitively understands, but it's difficult for a
lot of people to define intuition when you straight up
ask them, tell me what this mechanism means.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
So let's jump over to Cambridge. They've got a thing
or two to say about intuition. They describe it as
knowledge from an ability to understand or know something immediately
based on your feelings rather than facts. And put this
in maybe a little simpler terms, it's knowing something without
a clear understanding of how you came to know it
or why.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, that's the easiest way to put it. And secondly,
they call it an ability to understand or know something
without needing to think about it or use reason to
discover it. So, for example, folks, we're taking a Zener
card test. Everybody who has seen Ghostbusters remembers this test
(07:46):
is that the stars and they shape in three wavy lines, right,
So intuition would be an example of this would be when,
without really thinking about it, I hold up the card
for Tennessee and he says, oh, I I know, damn it.
(08:06):
The next card is three wavy lines and Dylan is
not counting the cards. He has no deep statistical system
or methodology consciously informing the decision. He just knows. And
this is a very old idea. Throughout time and space
and human civilization, everybody has acknowledged something like this phenomenon.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
But can you can you zap intuition into people? Though?
Like in the in the movie, remember didn't they get
a zap if you got it wrong?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yes, that was a weird That was a weird riff on.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
Uh, that was acentric thing.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I think it was a weird riff on some unethical experiments.
The idea that he would shock someone a mild electric
shock when they guessed the wrong card. Not very good
for science, like great for comedy. Right. The point is
that some cultures have treated this concept of intuition or
a hunch with more importance than others, but everyone again
(09:09):
has acknowledged its existence. And I think I think it's
a survival mechanism, folks. I think that like a microcosmic example,
wen't a park. Who doesn't love a park? You're at
a divergence Robert Frost style.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
If there's a trail in your local park, you've been
there before. You know one path Vera's left, the other
path Veer's right. You also know they both eventually lead
back to the entrance. They're about the same length. You know,
in terms of a walk, they just go through different
parts of the woods, but all of a sudden, right
at that divergence point, you get a hunch, you get
(09:47):
a gut flash of intuition, and it says, today we
go left, or a more ominous feeling would say go
anywhere but right.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Because that's the road less traveled by, and it's made
all the difference.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
I think, I do think for us and they go
I think it does go back to a lot of
other explorations we've done in this show about the human brains,
evolution over time, right, and the need to detect those
predators and the tiny little things, the little pieces of
evidence a predator might leave behind, or a telltale sign
that there's, let's say, a predator in a grass somewhere,
(10:21):
or you know, as we're talking about those wavy lines, right,
if you have an ability to detect small differences like
that evolutionarily, hey, your line probably did a lot better
than the ones who just kind of walk past that
grass like it's nothing and get eaten.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I hear you. I've always been a follow your gut
kind of entity personally, because like so.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
It goes back to your parents right, and it go
their parents, and their parents and their parents. It all
goes back.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Well, like so many living things in our park. Example,
given that both paths are pretty much the same, you're
probably going to follow your gut because it doesn't make
a difference. So if you're more skeptical, you'll maybe rationalize
it and say that doesn't matter either way. I just
felt like going left. But whatever that rationale may be,
(11:11):
your action remains the same. And I do think it
could be an ancient survival mechanism. You're getting free, unexplained information.
You don't know the providence of this information consciously, and
so why not stay on the safe side and go
with the flow if it's not inconvenient. It's a little
thing like a literal walk in the park for more convenience.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Factor is interesting because as we no longer maybe are
worried about the puma or something eating us on that
one path or the other, we are now intuiting which
one's going to be more convenient. Because as our intuition
is no longer maybe leaning as much on survival, does
gaps get filled in by other stuff. Inter's like whether
it be you know, convenience or the serendipitous kind of
(11:55):
you know, hearing that song again or whatever and assigning
some kind of meaning to it.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
And information on this idea of unconscious info information info.
Check out our Vibes episode, which I hope we're all
very proud of. Check out Vibes of course.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Well, you know, the only thing this doesn't explain, guys,
is the person who picks the wrong path and gets
killed or eaten.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
That's the thing, right.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Though, mechanism or they like roll the dice. It's explained retroactively.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
But well that it also goes back to the concept
that our gut feelings can be off and if and
if you're not careful, you can find yourself in a
self fulfilling prophecy. Right, So, this concept of following your
gut feelings or your intuition or something or you know,
whatever it is, it can be potentially dangerous.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
And think about how much stock people put in luck,
like in a casino or like, you know, my lucky
socks or whatever, because I won a bunch of hands
this one day where I was wearing these socks. So
you assume, or like to think rather that if you
wear the same socks you might do well again, and
maybe that the odds follow you around and things do
continue to do serendipity when you're wearing your lucky socks.
(13:04):
But at the end of the day, it is also
a numbers game.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Also, I like that example because it shows us that
quote unquote, self fulfilling prophecy can work both ways. Right,
your lucky socks and you knowing that you're wearing your
lucky socks may alter your behavior in ways that you
don't clock. That may make you more successful and give
an environment, so long as that environment is not a
(13:29):
casino because the house always wins.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
There's so many things stacked against you. Do check out
our episode we did from Vegas on how casinos put
the kibosh on your bank account.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
I'm thinking about this a lot, guys, especially after some
events that took place in Minneapolis recently with law enforcement
taking action, specific action against somebody that was unarmed. It
appeared to not have any kind of criminal intent, right right.
We talked previously about law enforce training and that training
(14:01):
that you get that tries you try and teach someone
to discern whether or not someone has a gun, let's say,
or whether or not someone means harm to another or
to you as an officer of the law. Sure, and
we talked about that split second decision that has to
occur in those moments and how dangerous that can be
for both the law enforcement person and everybody else that's
(14:23):
near them.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Did y'all see the update about how that officer had
also been in a previous incident involving a vehicle where
he was injured and dragged. And I'm not making any excuses.
I'm just talking about the pattern recognition and the perhaps
using past data to guide one's actions in another situation.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
That's what I'm thinking about, because it all takes place
in the split second, right, things of that nature, and
often when we get a gut feeling it is it
is not a prolonged thing. It is something that occurs
pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah. Yeah, Like I was saying earlier, it's like a
short window micro precognition.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Right, yeah, say it.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, this is we also should say the quiet part
out loud. We are talking in part about Renee Nicole Good,
who was an amazing poet.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
By the way, say, I think that ice agent's a
bad dude, and I'm not making any excuses, and I
think this is an awful situation and absolutely unconscionable. We
are talking about patterns seeking humans in the ways brains work,
and the way these kinds of experiences can go against training.
And then what even is the training in the first place?
(15:37):
Is it enough? I likely would argue?
Speaker 3 (15:39):
And how quickly thoughts turn into actions?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Right? And let's spin out the idea? Right, yes, thought
into action, let's spin out the idea of braining. I
like that, because what we need to recognize here is
that if you are a human being, every moment you
are alive is a kind of training. Your experience of
the present is built upon your experience of the past,
(16:05):
which informs your predictive or aspirational thoughts about the future.
Because you experienced time in a linear way, that's a
little bit of a foreshadowing, we call it. It is important, though,
when we talk about hunches and gut feelings, it's mission
critical for us to establish that most people experiencing these
(16:26):
situations don't see themselves as psychics. Right, They probably don't,
you know, dither too much over these decisions. Again, as
we said, it's a short window of time, it's immediacy,
it's action. So if you think about this information too
much gets really weird. Later, when it's you in the future,
(16:48):
new information might emerge that makes you return to that
moment of intuition, that quiet, still small voice inside of you, Like,
what if our pal who took the left hand path
in the park, what if they later learned there was
a gang about a quarter mile up on the right
hand path they robbed two other partgoers that day. Our
(17:10):
hypothetical part friend is probably gonna say, dang, I wonder
if that's why I knew to go left.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
Isn't the left hand path the devil's path? Ben?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
All right, we are playing a little bit.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
You got me.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I just watched that episode of The X File season
two where it's the faculty at the school dude to
a bank.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
That was the one referenced in our discussion with the host, Yes,
correc of the the devil. You know, that was the
one about the kind of satanic ritual blowing it up
into a huge watch the.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Eyes giving the eyes that part reptil, That part rocked me. Man.
So this idea happens so often, so much more than
even the most skeptical us may assume. So much so,
in fact, that we guarantee you, fellow conspiracy realists that
if you yourself have not had a moment like this yet,
(18:10):
you almost certainly know someone who has. So let's play
a game while we're all hanging out here by the campfire.
Go ask your friends and family about those moments of
powerful intuition, those flashes of gut feelings, those epiphanies. See
what they say. Their answers will surprise.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
You, dude. I have no evidence to back this up.
I just know, in particular, my mother and her mother
both have this thing that they would always talk about
a gut feeling or they knew something and they would
call me. They were like, I just knew I had
to call you, or something like that happen. That happened frequently,
(18:50):
at least in my grandmother's life, that would occur, and
my mom too. Gosh if Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
It's also the kind of thing that comes into play
when maybe meeting a new person, just getting a funny
feeling something they quite right. You don't have any data
or any knowledge of any things that this person has done,
but you get that little spidy sense that maybe there's
something not quite right, and what will that be? Micro aggressions,
little signals that your brain's picking up on that. You're
not even really acknowledging, as you know, data at all,
(19:18):
but you're taking it in nonetheless.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, and don't get me well, we're talking about family
history of alleged psychic phenomena. Don't get me started on
the luncheons, guys. Let's just say it. We're big fans
of trust in your gut.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yes, well, I just think, sorry, guys, random thought. We're
going to get into some things about the microbiome in
the human body and how it's transferred. So stuff we've
talked about you can find it on the audio podcast
if you go back in time. Sure, and then think
about mothers and how mothers literally hand down their gut
(19:53):
biomes to their children, every single one, especially if there's
breastfeeding involved in depending on the berth and all that stuff.
Either way, genetically you're handing down a certain amount and
then you're transferring more generally from being a mother. It
makes me wonder about some of that quantum entanglement weirdness
we're going to talk about, and literally the gut biome
(20:14):
of a mother and a child.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
Which I guess would be part and parcel of a
concept like epigenetics. The idea of inheriting memory, of inheriting
this type of knowledge you know through your DNA.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
It's similar. Yeah, I like that comparisonal because it's it's
like a Madroshka doll of epigenetics. Right, it's the it's
the function of the biome that lives within you. And
one other point to make with that is that your biome,
your gut biome, the floor and there are changeable, so
(20:47):
your diet can affect your mileage in ways that science
is still figuring out. Look, as long as your intuition
isn't asking you to do something crazy like sta abs
of one or feel the call of the void and
swerve into oncoming traffic, your gut feelings and the decisions
you make that you feel you are making well, the
(21:10):
determinism there, they are going to be harmless largely, the
decisions you make. It's as simple as choosing between a
burrito or case idella on a menu. You know, you'll
just say I just wanted a case idea, which is
the correct answer.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Unless there's burrito a different shape.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
One can grilla burrito.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah, we haven't even gotten to berea case ideas. The
other day, excellent love a little telling you. That's But
that's the tricky part too. That's that's the secret ingredient here. Time.
If you're a human, your default factory settings of consciousness
experience time in a linear fashion. We sometimes call this
(21:59):
the arrow of time because it's a cool praise. You
move forward through life at a constant rate to you,
of one second to the next, from grad ole to grave.
But what if there is more to it than this?
What if on some level your true experience of time
goes much deeper? What if your gut knows something you
(22:22):
do not what.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
My guts.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Here's where it gets crazy, all right. We got to
introduce the legendary, the mythical, the pioneery. Don't give us
some growing applause and sometimes controversial scientist and parapsychologist Dean Radden,
(22:51):
r A d I N PhD.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
You may find this name to be familiar. A couple
of books that you might know. Super Normal, I think
is the one that probably probably most people have pinged
on at some point because it's been mentioned so many times.
Real Magic is another one, and Entangled Minds was Oh Gosh,
a fascinating book from six two thousand and six, talking
(23:16):
about interconnectedness on levels that we're now talking about, especially
with quantum mechanics and quantum entanglement and things like that.
We're talking about that on the regular as though it
is pure science. Now, well it's let's say, it's a
bleeding edge of certain science.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Farting edge, hey, ivs edge. Yeah, but I like where
you're going, man.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
But I guess what I'm saying this. This human being,
Dean Ratten, PhD, has been talking about some of these
some of the weirder aspects of time and consciousness for
a long time.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Yeah. Yeah, because look, this guy might not believe in
linear time, but his bibliography short does. Uh. And we
say that with great affection and respect. If you go
to his website. One really cool thing the good doctor
did is link a ton of his papers that you
can read for free. And be warned it's a rabbit
(24:15):
hole if you. If the academic stuff feels a little
too dry for you, go visit the slick website for
ions the Institute of Noetic Sciences work.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Backwards from the acronym for that one. It's just so
pretty good, pretty good, noetic being a fun word that
is new to me referring to things just pertaining to
the mind or intellect.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah, it's just it's kind of metacognition with a tie
on or as we learned recently, nol a cravat.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Yes, or an ion a tie on cravat? What is
it again? Ben cravats? Y'all ascots are not ties.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
It's all dases or puzzles, all puzzles or mazes. Provide
is a group term for silly stuff people wear around
their neck.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
Cravat could also be a bow tie. It should be
an ascot. It could be a traditional necktie with a
windsor not.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
WHOA the more you know, Doc give check our mind.
Check out our show Ridiculous History where we learned about
that one live on air because we.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Like cravat and that was a real time Google session.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
It's true. What's the name of that thing the Western
folks wear? Sometimes it's a bullet It's my favorite.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
You guys, you know what's funny?
Speaker 4 (25:36):
That one unrelated. But if you ever want to go
to the Magic Castle in Los Angeles, they have a
pretty strict dress code. So if you ever get an invite,
it's cool magicians club thing or you can see magic shows.
You can wear a bolo tie in place of a necktie. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Oh man, I remember when you went there at West
Coast Cheek. I think it would be cool. Also, speaking
of institutions for us to visit, ions, the Institute for Sciences.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
This is it's in California as well, right, grip It
feels like it has to be just this story. Yeah,
well yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
It was founded back in seventy three, nineteen seventy three
by a guy named edgar Mitchell. Fun fact, the sixth
man to walk on Earth's moon.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
It's kind of like the second act of his career.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
They don't talk about the sixth guy really, just the
first two.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Well, this is the sixth Yes, he's well, the sixth
the sixth guy came back and you can read on
Ion's website about him. Do you guys mind if I
read a quick little quote here from their website.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yes, and he also, just to be clear, he experienced
the overview offect for.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Yeah, yeah, it says here on their website. As a
scientist and visionary doctor, Edgar Mitchell saw a need to
reconcile his training as an engineer and astrophysicist with the
wisdom of the ages to transcend the limitations of what
he saw as an outdated materialist worldview. A new framework
would be needed, one that could help explain the unexplainable
(27:10):
and spark transformation.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
And so he makes this pitch to a couple of
other people, like minded folks, including an investor named paul
In Temple. This Avengers team up of exploring the edges
of science. Right now as we're recording, they are conducting
research on all sorts of the stuff we x files
(27:34):
fans love, and a lot of modern science who poos
their efforts gut jokes. We're doing gut jokes.
Speaker 4 (27:42):
Keep them comming. Yeah, we're talking about psychic powers, all
the stuff in the intro to the show. Yeah, precognition,
tele slash, psycho kinesis. You know, all that bleeding edge
consciousness stuff, the idea of an afterlife, you know, the
good bits, all.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
This, all the good ones, all the slow jazz. If
you visit the website jazz, Yeah, if you visit their
website for that slow jazz, you can see thousands of
articles that are free to read. Right now, Just be
very well aware, folks, some of your friends and family
and loved ones in the stem fields are going to
(28:19):
immediately dismiss this work as pseudoscience or at the very worst,
a cynical rift.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Yeah, it always comes back to our interview with Russell
Targ from me, I know, I bring it up all
the time, but that dude and talking to him not
to mention that he was like the clearly the influence
for the real life was Egon Spengler. It was such
an interesting intersection of like the science and the this
sort of like this you know, sort of more out
there stuff, and he seemed to do a pretty good
(28:48):
job of kind of reconciling the two. So go back
and check out that episode to talk to him. Search
from a guy who's on the edge of that kind
of you know thought.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Thanks Doc Targ, thank you so much. What a cool
guy seriously saying it.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
But before we again, before anybody passes judgment on this thing,
take a minute to head over to their website and
look at the folks who are involved, the PhDs that
are involved in their background. So the current president, this
guy named Thomas G. Broffi or Brophy. I'm sorry, I
don't know how to pronounce that name. He was initially
at least starting out a planetary astrophysicist with the University
(29:24):
of Colorado, and this dude was a part of the
Voyager program. Guys, you remember that one h that sent
out the satellites.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
It's the Jeer in the Star Trek universe.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Oh oh, well, in this one it's Voyager.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
I know, I just spoiled an awesome Star Trek film.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
But then also in this thing in ions, you will
see that one of their board of directors, and I
don't know if this is a good thing or a
bad thing. One of the board of directors is a
guy named George Zimmer. Does anybody know that name? Do
you remember that name?
Speaker 4 (29:56):
It's really ringing a bell, Matt, but I can't put
my finger on it.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Is the founder of the Men's Warehouse, which is cool,
you know.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Issues, No, there was some weirdness with that cat, wasn't there.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
I don't know, there wasn't I just worked a commercials.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
We're definitely talking about him being into some weird stuff.
For sure, that's literally true.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
But is it super cool that he's into that stuff
or does it make you feel like the thing has
less credibility because he's into that stuff. I don't know,
He's your gut is going to tell you how you
feel about this organization.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Right, So, for our purposes tonight, let's look at their
work into the nature of the mind, precognition or presentiment
as they call it. And time. There's a popular mechanics
article that published in November of last year, twenty twenty five.
We're recording this in January of twenty twenty six. And
(30:52):
this this article went viral because so many people were
fascinated by conversations the journalists were having with Dean Ratten,
as well as his colleague Julia Mossbridge, also a PhD,
works at ions and has her own institute, the moss
(31:12):
Bridge Institute.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
It is a little weirder.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Can I just really quickly say I didn't mean to
malign mister George Zimmer. By all accounts, he was a
lovely dude, and he was fired by the company and
then went on to found his own tux company. But
apparently he was fired because he wanted to maintain a smaller,
more personalized business than the board of directors of Men's
Warehouse was not down with that. So I didn't mean
to say like there was some weirdness about George Zimmer.
(31:37):
Seems like a good.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Guy, I got some suits from there back in the day.
Oh yeahouse. I also didn't realize what you guys know.
I'm a very strange entity. I didn't realize Men's warehouse
was a pun warehouse. Right, he took me. I was
reading the label inside of one of the suit jackets,
(31:59):
went oh cool, I love a pud. Let's go to Mossbridge.
As we said, she's an's researcher, she's got her own institute.
She is additionally a senior Fellow in what they call
Human Potential at Florida Atlantic University's Center for the Future
of AI, Mind and Society. This reminds me of the
(32:22):
kind of work our legendary pal Damian Patrick Williams does.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Mm hmm. It's all about technology right in the mind
of technology and the future, very into artificial intelligence over
there in large language models.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
And Mossbridge is one hundred percent a true believer in
concepts like precognition, following one's intuition or hunch's. Mossbridge has
spoken at length about her personal experiences. Again, everybody has them, right,
growing up, things that members of our family experience. The
(32:59):
real seems that it inspired her later research as an
adult and I'd love for us to share a quote
from moss Bridge regarding precognition.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
She says, quote, It's not hard to understand precognition, it's
just hard to believe for people who haven't experienced it.
We don't understand how time works, says moss Bridge. Even
physicists are admitting they really don't know how it works.
We are stuck on this idea that if you are
truly scientific, you are going to think about time linearly.
(33:36):
But is it really linear?
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I like this because it's leaving open the question, right,
and it's leaving open the possibility to explore further right,
and not closing off any other possibilities the way we
saw with three I Atlas this past year in twenty
twenty five, right, we saw literally one scientist Harvard saying, Hey,
let's let's talk about the possibilities here, let's actually look
(34:05):
at this stuff and think about it in this way.
If only for the possibility then it could be that.
And then you had most of the rest of the
scientific community just saying no, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
And we're talking about Doc A vi Lob over there.
And I love that point because ave Lobe was not
making crazy claims in a definitive way. Doctor Lobe was saying,
or Professor Loebe was saying, we should think about this.
You know, there's nothing wrong with asking what if? That
is the beating heart of science. But then the dogma
(34:40):
comes in and things get real sticky and compartmentalized.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Yeah, Love was putting out some like very particular figures
with like the percentage of the possibility and all that that.
You're you know, you could argue with some of that stuff.
The open mindedness thing, I think though, is crucial for
right now and in the future, just to leave open
some possibilities.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, And a lot of the resistance from the Ivory
Tower to ideas about precognition and psychic phenomena. In Mossbridge's opinion,
this comes from fear, the fear of the unknown, or
the fear that, hey, maybe the ground of reality is
not as solid as I thought. You know, It's like,
(35:26):
do you ever have that moment or I'm sure you
guys have. I don't want to cast dispersion on your
ambulatory abilities, but have you ever had that moment where
you're walking upstairs, you're not really paying attention and your
body thinks there's an extra step and you have that
little oh wait, I'm at the top.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
Yeah, appropriate reception off for just a moment, just a
little blip, a little glitch or something. I've had that.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
It's also like when you run into another human and
you kind of both like mirror each other and like.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Trying to Yeah, yeah, it's going down an Aisle eleven
or the farmer dude.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Just I'm sorry to jump back to three alys again, Guys,
I just recalled the piece of news came out. We're
recording this on Friday, January ninth. A piece of news
came out, like yesterday, maybe about the CIA making an
official statement that they can neither confirm nor deny any
of the documentation they have about the comment. Right, this
(36:23):
was a little weird, but I guess it's fine.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah. It could also just be a staffing issue at
this point. Okay, you know what I mean. There's like
one guy and he's running out of black high lighters
and he's still trying to get the invoice through for
his next pack at twelve.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Yeah, crap, we're almost at two percent of the Epstein files.
We need more black markers.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Sorry, guys, I told you I was taking Tuesday off.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Did you get Apparently a lot of that was done
with like Adobe Acrobat and download that you can you
can just undo the redactions.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Yes, wait what Yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:58):
At least in the first part, which partially explains the pause,
because they have to figure out their process, we kind
of go back to the black highlighters. They just eyelighters
show up that op sect my brothers in christ oh Man,
and with all this conversation about the nature of time,
which we're about to dive into, Uh, we've got to
(37:19):
take a break. We're getting into some heavy stuff. We'll
have a word from our sponsors, will be right back.
Or wait, are we all worthy there? I have a hunch.
So all of the folks at Ions or Ions, they're
(37:42):
doing really fascinating research and they believe that they they
hit upon a perspective that that is beautiful, actually beautifully
thought out. They said, what if we're asking the wrong questions?
What if we're not What if we're focusing too much
(38:02):
on the idea of predicting the future and we should
be asking what we mean when we say time? What
what are we getting wrong in our assumptions that constructed
our earlier questions?
Speaker 3 (38:17):
So it makes a flat circle bend.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Anyway, I've got to stop rewatching it, man.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
I do it all the time Detective season.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
One, and also that meme format. He's just ripping that sig.
You know that's a.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Class and uh, what's the what are some of the quotes, Oh,
the world needs bad men, Marty, we keep the other
bad men from the door.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
I also like it when then he responds, stop saying odd.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Let's smell on a psychosphere a moment, A moment for
silent flat.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
Oh the bit he actually says he miss says it.
He says, let's talk about smelling a psycho sphere, but
he actually says psychosphere. But there was.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Something where he's like, which hot meat? I can't I
can't remember the phrase. God dang, that was a good show.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
Banger of a season, banger of.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
The season, and and raddening crew at all are making
some bangers of scientific claims or at the very least
lobe style asking questions. We've got a quote from Raden
which sort of expounds on what we were teasing about.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
That's right, He notes, time is not how we experience
it on an everyday level. In quantum mechanics, time may
not even be part of our physical reality. It's not
that time doesn't exist, it's just that it behaves in
a much stranger way than how it is seen through
the lens of the human experience. I just recently watched
(39:57):
most of with my kid and their friend Interstellar, which
does a really interesting job of exploring some time dilation
and like the way times experienced differently. And I don't know,
it's like all this wormhole stuff and Einstein Rosen bridges
and all of that. Very very interesting, and I think
it tries really hard to stick pretty close to some
(40:18):
actual provable science ways of explaining this kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yeah, or at least some currently beloved speculation there. Yeah,
Interstellar is a banger. We're all figuring out this together.
I would argue that it is. It is absolutely quintessential
good science fiction because it explores the science, it explores
(40:43):
the possibility, and it keeps a human heart beating at
the core, you know, very much so.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
But humans don't experience time in the same way we
think we do what right?
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Right?
Speaker 4 (40:53):
Okay, So back to Dean go on right?
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah, yeah, okay, so you're this guy must be an
epic haank you pause for a second. You say, Doc,
what and he says, what I'm saying is our consciousnesses
are maybe able to jump outside of ordinary experience and
receive information from the past or the future. Now, before
we say that's hogwash or something, remember when he's saying
(41:20):
from the past to the future, he's also he's he's
talking about just remembering stuff.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
That's an amazing experience, which we set up at the
very top banner. You set up this idea of the
way we experience memory is a form of time travel.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
Oh yeah, yes, but in this case, you are remembering
stuff that has yet to happen in your conscious experience,
but perhaps it has occurred on the great wheel of
time that is rolling through whether or not you know
what's happened, whether or not you know what's happened, whether.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
You experiencially anticipated in it. The Wheel of paw Right
High to the Dark Tower. That is a weird spoiler
for any Stephen King fans.
Speaker 4 (42:04):
I think it's too esoteric. I don't know if it's
even going to constitute a spoil for most people. It's good,
but I never made it that far in the series.
But I know that there's some good stuff in there.
Blame the train.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Blame the train. Yeah, he's a pain.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
So I know there's a lot more to explore, your guys,
But it is strange to me to imagine if this
were true. Right, coming to it from a skeptical point
of view, I think it feels like we would know
more than just a tiny gut feeling every once in
a while about what's going to happen right.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Right right, There would be some sort of determinism, you know.
We want to shout out a phenomenal book by an
MIT professor named Alan Leitman. It's called Einstein's Dreams. We've
mentioned it before, you guys, remember this one. It's a
real short book. It's a great read. It's all about
this sleepy patent clerk named Albert and he just can't
(42:56):
stay awake at his boring desk job, and every time
he goes to sleep, he has these strange dreams about
the nature of time. It's pretty good. Doc Lightman is
not paying us to say it, but if you, if
you get a chance, please read the book. It's that's
the right because you're saying, or we're saying here that
(43:20):
if this phenomenon exists, then why isn't it a bigger deal. Why,
as you said, Matt, are we just getting little little
twinkles of the future every now and then inexplicable? Why
aren't we waking up right every sunset or sunrise or
whatever and thinking immediately, Oh, I know what is going
(43:43):
to happen right at three forty five, or I know
what's going to happen on January twenty third, twenty twenty six.
Speaker 4 (43:52):
And I suppose folks that you know put forth, that
they have psychic abilities might be able to focus that
thing that maybe most of us can experience some small
little glimmer.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Of yeah, like an exercise and a muscle right, sure, yeah,
I mean, our buddy Dean has been at this so long,
for a long time, haha, time jokes.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
Well, I'm curious though about how this stuff registers on
you know, brain scanning type equipment egs. You mean that's
what I mean, Matt.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Oh yeah. Let's go back to Doc Radden's days at
the University of Nevada in the nineteen nineties. We discussed
this a little bit in a recent Strange News recording.
You can check those out. They're available wherever you find
your favorite shows. All right, so, EEG machine in what experiment.
The doc had these participants attached to EG machines and
(44:52):
then he told them, all right, you're going to press
a button, and when you press this button, there's going
to be a brief delay of five seconds, and then
an image is going to pop on the screen. The
image is either going to be negative or positive, by
which we mean you might see something like a yellow
dog bounding in the sunshine in a park, or you
(45:16):
might see a car crash. You don't know. As the participant,
you hit the button, boop, and then five four three
two one, boom the image appears. So they're not being
asked necessarily to predict this like the old Ghostbusters card experiment. Instead,
(45:37):
the EEG is measuring brain activity in that pause, in
that five seconds between when you hit the button and
when the image appears.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
This is so strange to me, and I have so
many questions about it, man, I have so many questions
just because you can if you think about it rationally,
you think, oh, well, people are now feeling anxiety before
a new image comes up, because it could be either
great or terrible, right, and so you're feeling that anxiety, right.
But their result showed that when the positive image was
(46:12):
about to come up. They didn't feel it.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, this is fascinating. This is
the controversials right. Just as just as Matt said there,
the positive image didn't really rock the EEG. No emotion
or change in brain activity however measured. But if a
negative image was on the way within that five second
(46:37):
span of time, there were spikes that occurred the brain
activity that the conscious mind of the participant was probably
not clocking. It seemed to respond to what was going
to be displayed in advance of that thing being displayed.
Speaker 4 (46:53):
So I guess if we trust this method, the study
is saying that somehow participants are able to sort of
anticipate or into it, the display of a negative image,
even though they had no way of knowing that it
was coming.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Nailed it, and one, Yeah, that's the idea. It reminds
me of I've got to pull up this study later
right to us if you want to read the full paper.
But I've got to find that study where the results
showed that people's test scores improved when they studied after
taking a test.
Speaker 4 (47:27):
We talked about that recently, and still it was a
hard one to wrap my little head around.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
I don't know if we're built for it, you guys. Yeah,
I don't know if we're built to understand it or
simply built to experience it.
Speaker 4 (47:39):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah, I keep thinking about it, the idea, I don't know.
You raised a great point there about the methodology. That's where, honestly,
the bulk of scientific thought of jets to Radden's experiments
because they say, hey, they're a thousand new poles that
you need to explain from their perspective.
Speaker 4 (48:03):
I agreed.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
I just want to put this out here, guys. I
just did a cursory search for what you were just
talking about Ben in that study because I recalled it
and I thought, well, I can pull this up really fast.
I bet we could do that. The search terms required,
test scores improve study after all of this. The way
Google and all these search things return things nowadays, it's impossible.
(48:28):
It's trying to give me a ten thousand different things
that it thinks I want. But I just need to
get better at search.
Speaker 4 (48:35):
Then you just want to return things that contain those
combinations of terms. But now the AI algorithm is like.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
You are, I want to help you to let me
give you what you need.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Here's a recipe for precognition cast role. Also, I mean,
I would argue it is indeed the stuff they don't
want you to know, because, uh, searching for anything on
the Internet is very much like casting an incantation, right,
You've got to get your your magic words correct.
Speaker 4 (49:08):
Well, especially now with what is it vibe coding or
like the way people are using these prompts, you know,
to generate crazy imagery or what have you. I mean,
that is absolutely a form of incantation something.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
But Pandora's jar is unscrewed. You know, the gin has
left the lamp, the horses out of the barn, The
good escaped. Yeah, the badgers have escaped the.
Speaker 4 (49:34):
Bag running rampant through the streets.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
They're just badgery.
Speaker 4 (49:38):
They really insist upon themselves as badgers.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
This is so unrelated, guys, But I was noctivigating. I
was out on a night walk and I ran into
a raccoon, but it was a city raccoon.
Speaker 4 (49:50):
Did you guys mirror each other's moves? Funny? This is
no you go, no, you go racoron.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
This is how weird it was. This has nothing to
do with our conversation tonight, but it's just a funny moment.
And when you said badgers, we had that catchphrase back
of badgers. It reminded me of this. It was a raccoon, right,
little raccoon guys. He's got those adorable hands, he or she.
They're digging fingers. Yeah, they're digging through some city trash.
(50:18):
And and it stops and it looks at me, and
that it slowly takes a bite of whatever it's eating,
and it choos and it stares at me, and I
didn't know what to do, so I said hey, and
then it just ignored me and went back to the trash.
Speaker 4 (50:36):
And then it says, chaos, that'd be great rubbing them together.
Speaker 5 (50:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, ah man, Because I'm thinking about there's
a few other things that have occurred or pieces of
information studies that have come out over the past couple
of years, and one of them is looking at this
exact kind of stuff, but it's looking at, in particular.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
The micro biome, the human microbiome, and whether or not
the signals going up the Vadgi's nerve that goes, you know,
down into your guts and then is connected directly up
to your brain, and whether or not literally those gut feelings,
the way your microbiome is handling stuff and signals it's
sending to your brain. If that can actually play us
(51:19):
some kind of part in warning us about something that's
about to happen, Right, So is there a linkage between
your literal gut and time somehow that we don't understand?
But then there's pieces There were pieces in here, Like
BBC Science Focus was talking about a Michigan State University
test that looked at infants, and y'all, for this test,
(51:41):
I think maybe we've even talked about this before. But
for this study, they would have infants in a room
with their parents, and they would have people coming in
and out of the room, and every once in a while,
the person going coming into the room would be wearing
a horrifying Halloween mask and they were testing to see
the child's reaction to this new person in the room
that they don't know that looks scary right, Well, but
(52:05):
the parents were there as fine, whatever traumatized kids for.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
The kids aren't going to remember, They're just gonna have
weird behavioral patterns and fixation they want them for the
rest of their lives.
Speaker 3 (52:17):
The people running this examination of how a child reacts
we're also looking at the gut microbiomes of each one
of these kids and to see whether or not stuff
going on down there is actually going to affect their
fear response to something. And then thinking about that going
back in time like is because we do inherit our
(52:39):
gut bacteria in a large part from our parents, you know,
mostly from our mothers. But as Ben you were saying earlier,
we alter that, and human society has been altering our
gut microbiomes for you know, centuries now, with how we've
changed our society, how it functions, the pollutants we put
out in there, the weird toxic stuff that we ingest.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
How how much of your biome is plastic?
Speaker 4 (53:04):
Let us know, well, apparently a credit card size amount daily.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
I was sick. I didn't pay a credit card like
a sucker. I just gotta right.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
Yeah, But I just found that fascinating thinking about that,
linking up to our not full understanding of time and
how it functions, and our not full understanding of how
our microbiome affects us. But you know, again, the bleeding
edges of those sciences are just continually moving outwards if
we keep open our minds for the weirdness.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Yeah, you always have to ask yourself, if this is true,
what does it imply right?
Speaker 4 (53:44):
If then right?
Speaker 2 (53:45):
If so, then what? And we do know this is
why I love this point. We do know that the
current research is showing the human microbiome can have an
effect on memory and learning at the very leased. So
we don't have the you know, it's like we're playing
the board game Clue, but with a thousand cards in
(54:07):
that little envelope. We're proving some stuff. We don't know
the whole story yet of the crime that we call
linear time, but we're getting there. We're getting some clues.
Speaker 3 (54:20):
So many murders Time has committed.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
So many murders. Yeah, so far, Time remains the undefeated
champion of any.
Speaker 4 (54:29):
Beat of speaking of which, check out the movie Time Crimes.
It's a really good exploration of exactly the kind of
stuff we're talking about, and a lot of these crazy
parallel versions of things and intuition and time travel, and
it also involves murder, so you know, kind of sews
it all together.
Speaker 3 (54:49):
And don't sleep on time cop I know.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
And now we have to do spacey folks, friends andabors
around the world. Fellow conspiracy realist and especially you, Sean Claude.
We apologize one time, but yeah, yeah, it was my bad.
Speaker 4 (55:11):
We're sorry. Very small man, very high kick's.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
He could hear us now, man, don't do this.
Speaker 3 (55:18):
He's at least super kindly.
Speaker 2 (55:23):
When he turned around, he was clearly giving us what
Mac from Always Sunny would call it ocular assessments. Do
these little boys the butts kick today? And he looked
at us and he thought.
Speaker 4 (55:37):
Nah, I'll let them, let them live on.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
Thank you time cop. So okay. For her part, moss
Bridge is going to argue what we were kind of
talking about earlier, and no, I believe you're the one
who mentioned this. Most people are capable of some level
of precognition or presentiment her her belief in research. This
means this doesn't mean magic, nor does it mean the
(56:02):
supernatural or divinity. It's Arthur C. Clark style. It's science
we don't understand. Therefore does seem indistinguishable from magic. And
it's worth understanding these folks are still conducting research as
we speak. I don't know, guys, We've got more to
talk to about time, like theoretical physicists such as Carlo Ravelli,
(56:26):
who say time does not exist time. Billy Corgan time is.
Speaker 4 (56:33):
You know Billy Corgan as a Cartman voice. It's it
really works. Just just think about Billy Corgan and then
insert of the Cartman voice and if they're on the
same I.
Speaker 2 (56:43):
Don't do it now because your user of mind powers, folks,
we believe in you. Also, I could totally, I would
totally tune in for a Cartman version of Melancholy.
Speaker 4 (56:54):
And the is you don't need to, It's already there.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
It's already.
Speaker 4 (57:00):
Okay.
Speaker 6 (57:00):
So this is the issue, though, folks, because all right,
so if time doesn't exist, right, if it is indeed
an illusion in just how we encounter interconnected events, the
truth is that our perception of linear time is very
(57:21):
much a lived reality.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
It is true for you that this thing has been
on for you know, around an hour or so. That
is true for you, whether or not time exists, And
folks peak behind the curtain. Regardless of who wins this
heady debate, all the world runs on some kind of clock.
We have tried it. We can guarantee you men's warehouse
(57:45):
style that you cannot be late to meetings with an
excuse note from a physicist. Okay, you can't. You can't. Really,
you can't rock up and say I'm sorry. I was
twenty minutes late. This guy from MIT wrote a note
about how time doesn't exist.
Speaker 4 (58:03):
It's technically a doctor's note.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
Technically is from a doctor.
Speaker 3 (58:07):
Yes, we were doing some non Newtonian stuff over here.
On clocks on Mars. That's fine, it's cool some real time.
Speaker 4 (58:13):
You whind me junk?
Speaker 3 (58:14):
Did you see that time the clocks do move differently
on Mars. That was recently, gosh, I think maybe a
month ago or something.
Speaker 2 (58:21):
That was.
Speaker 3 (58:23):
I think I think it was proven. But it's like
four hundred and seventy something milliseconds difference between clocks on
Mars and on Earth. And we're talking about like not
as though. We're not talking about the way the planet
moves around the Sun or anything like that, or the
way it rotates. It's just the clocks are different. Man,
time's different, right.
Speaker 4 (58:43):
Yeah, that relates to the interstellar thing, where like they
time okay, time passes differently depending on how far away
you know.
Speaker 2 (58:50):
Right, and gravitational effects. They had a lot of fun
with that one. And we're talking a little bit about
time dilation. Because Newtonian physics everybody remembers Isaac right, he
was the master of the Royal Mint.
Speaker 4 (59:03):
He did some other stuff, Yeah, No, he was a
crack forgery detective. Yes, in addition to kind of discovering
how gravity works.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
Yeah, I had a weird relationships with apples anecdotally. But okay.
Newtonian physics argues there is a single universal now. But
we had to throw that stuff out of the window
Russia style when Einstein proved time as relative.
Speaker 3 (59:28):
Had to defenestrate that thing.
Speaker 2 (59:30):
Yeah, how can you finistrates anymore? Used to go back
into windows?
Speaker 4 (59:35):
Is that when you climbed through a window like in
the Canterbury Tails.
Speaker 3 (59:39):
Time is moving so fast nowadays?
Speaker 2 (59:42):
Oh geez, well, we do know it's very much a
lived reality. Maybe we go back to intuition, where this
whole mad cap escapadegan. There is no denying that people
do experience hunches and that we can't always haunch rationalize those.
As you're joining us, now, you're going to find all
(01:00:04):
manner of scientists who are hotly debating the mechanisms of intuition.
Some of these moments can be explained through various understood
mundane things. Mentalists in particular, like the legendary Darren Brown
have a field day with unconscious sensory collection.
Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
Right, And a lot of these experts do agree that
there's still a lot more to learn about this phenomenon.
But what are we talking about?
Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Yeah, what exactly is there to learn? And where does
this strange bag of badgers leave us? You know, if
we're unraveling the hidden science of gut feelings and intuition
so figurative, literal, and cognitive, that might crack the case
for us. This might be the lead we need to
figure out once and for all the true nature of time.
Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
Dune A right, guys, I'm I'm going through something right now.
Not to get too personal or too much information, And
I'm on a round of antibiotics because of sinus infection
that was pretty heinous. Sure, and generally I wouldn't take
antibiotics because of what we learned on this show about
herd immunity and all kinds of other things that, you know, yeah,
(01:01:14):
not great to train the stuff. What an antibiotic is,
specific versions and all that stuff. But I feel a
little off, and I don't know if it's psychosomatic from
reading all these articles about our gut bacteria and how
that actually affects things or that physically a lot of
mine are currently eradicated. I'm gonna have to get some back.
(01:01:36):
They do tell you to eat probiotics when you're taking
antibacterial stuff too, when you're taking antibiotics stuff, which is
you know, smart. I guess it's just interesting to me
that I do in some way feel a bit disconnected
from that intuition thing in this moment as we're recording.
Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Yeah, I hear you, man, I think a lot of
us have experienced something similar. If you travelers spend a
lot of time in very different places with different ecosystems,
you can have a similar experience. Like when I'm on
the road for a while, I noticed something, something switches internally.
(01:02:15):
And it's not just diet, it's the other environmental variables
that change. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
Have you ever noticed a particular place that has that
distinct feeling or of like maybe a stronger effect.
Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
Yes, I'll tell you story. Yeah, we'll talk off air.
Don't blow up the spot, No, seriously, I'll tell you
off But this is where we probably call it folks.
As you can tell, this concept is endlessly fascinating to
Dylan Tennessee pal Fagan to Noel Brown, to Matt Frederick
(01:02:51):
to yours truly, they called me Ben Bullen in this
neck of the global woods. We want to hear your
thoughts past, present and future on intuition, and we know
they're going to be awesome. How do we know that.
Let's just say we have a hunch. You can give
us a phone call, you can send us an email,
and you can find us on the lines.
Speaker 4 (01:03:10):
You sure can find us on the lines at the
handle Conspiracy Stuff, where we exist on Facebook with our
Facebook group here is where it gets crazy, on XFK, Twitter,
and on YouTube where we have tons of videos for
you to consume and enjoy. On Instagram and TikTok, we're
Conspiracy Stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
Show call our phone number. It is one eight three
three std WYTK. When you call it, you got to
turn those letters into numbers, but you'll figure it out
to it. Yes, you got three minutes. Give yourself a
cool nickname and let us know within the message if
we can use it in one of our listener mail
episodes that show up in the audio feeds. So you
(01:03:47):
have to go somewhere else to check that out. It'll
be worth your time, we promise. If you want to
send us instead an email. You can do that too.
Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
We are I'm doing a creepy light. Guys, the entities
that read every piece of tour respondence we receive be
well aware, yet out afraid. Sometimes the void writes back,
maybe you've already said to us something, Maybe we've already responded.
Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
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Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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