August 21, 2026 • 67 mins
With just a few missteps, nuclear weapons could end civilization as we know it. And despite their many differences, pretty much every country acknowledges this fact. Each of the nine known nuclear powers have their own laws about how to handle nukes -- but one nation stands unique amid the fold: through a practice of 'strategic ambiguity', the country of Israel has neither confirmed nor denied possession of nuclear weapons. It's the world's worst-kept open secret. And, as Ben and Matt learn in tonight's episode, this nation in particular has a terrifying last-resort policy for their nukes, which don't officially exist. So: What is the Samson Option?
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
A production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Our colleague Nol is on an adventure, but we'll be
returning shortly.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you
are you. You are here for now, and that makes
this the stuff they don't want you to know. There's
a reason that we say here for now because this
episode is continuing part of our long term fascination. Matt.
(00:59):
This is why for all the nuke fans, nuclear fans,
if there is such a thing, fans of nuclear.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Weapons, yeah, we're all big fans of those things.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Just like trash can Man in the Stand. I recently
reread the unabridged version of The Stand and Man that
holds up despite some of Well, you could send us
your opinions about Stephen King, we'd love to hear them.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I still haven't read it once, but I am still
thinking about our episode on the USS Liberty and the
history of the country of Israel, and I am like
kind of scared to do this topic just because it
makes me feel nervous because we are talking about nuclear
weapons and as we know, those things can end a
(01:50):
lot of stuff quickly.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah. Yeah, I was definitely dragging feet on this episode
for a while too, because it's an older concept a
lot of people aren't aware of unless you specifically look
into nuclear war, nuclear proliferation. You know, it's strange because
nuclear weapons are world enders potentially, they're so dangerous. They've
(02:15):
only been deployed twice in combat by Uncle Sam in Japan,
and just witnessing that made the entire world say, okay,
let's try to avoid this even with our enemies. Because
if one person or one nation launchers a nuke, other
ones will launch nukes in turn, a domino effect will occur.
(02:37):
It could in civilization, and that leads us to something
called mad mutually assured destruction. It's a theory that so
far still holds.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, the only good thing that nuclear weapons have brought
us is if you are a country and you have
those weapons, other countries are a little bit less dickish
to you. That's literally the good The good thing that
has happened because the threat of those weapons and mutually
assured destruction keeps other countries a little bit at bay.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I remember, I remember studying with some of my edgier
old professors who would talk about this, and there they
presented a series of great metaphors regarding how the tension
or as you said, the dictitionist builds as any other country,
even an ally attempts to gain the BOB. But once
(03:33):
they get the BOB, the tension eases because just having
that means you are a participant now in mad It
inherently ups your status in the world order. And that's
why once any country gains the capability of a nuclear weapon,
even if they don't really have the ability to launch
it effectively or reliably like North Korea the DPRK, they're
(03:55):
still not ever going to give it up. Think of
the lessons of Libya and other countries stepped back their
NWKE programs, it did not end well for them. In
different countries, they all have their own rules or policies
about how they could theoretically deploy one of these massive
weapons of destruction. One country in particular refuses to even
(04:19):
acknowledge whether they have these things in the first place.
That is tonight's grand conspiracy, Israel and something called the
Samson option.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Even though most of the other powers in the world
acknowledge it, we choose not to. It's very interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
It's Joseph Heller, It's Catch twenty two. We'll get into
it right after a word from our sponsors. Here are
the facts. Okay, So, out of all the one hundred
and ninety five or so countries on the planet recognized
by the United Nations, only nine are known to have
(05:02):
nuclear weaponry. They're most of the ones you expect. There
are some odd balls in the mix, Pakistan, India and
North Korea, and then of course the US, Russia, China, France,
the UK, the winners of World War two, and and
then Israel has nuclear weapons according to everybody on the
planet except for the nation of Israel. They it's because
(05:27):
they have a policy of deliberate ambiguity, which it's gonna
sound so surreal if you've never heard of it. A
lot of the a lot of like the international policy wonks.
We call it the bomb and the basement. They never
once submitted to having the bomb, but they also never
once denied it. Instead, they have these these very old
(05:52):
they're almost like catchphrases at this point. And I'm saying
this with respect because it is quite a clever policy.
They're saying. The biggest quote is if you ask them
about nuclear weaponry, Hey, tell us about that. Tell us
about that facility in Demona or whatever. First they, by
the way, they told the US it was a textile factory.
(06:14):
But now they say, Israel will not be the first
country to quote introduce nuclear weapons to the Middle East.
But when they say introduce, they don't mean it the
way everybody else means introduce when they speak English.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
That's so weird. They are they talking about, like Syria's
attempts to get a nuclear weapon or some of the
other countries in the Middle East that wanted to have
nuclear weapons.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
And I'm holding my forehead the way I'm sure US
ambassadors do when they're like, yeah, introduce, what do you mean, guys,
what do you mean introduce? They mean to that point, Mett,
they mean introduce as testing or formally acknowledging nuclear weapons,
because the idea is that if they do so with
(07:02):
so many enemies in the region, they'll exacerbate those countries
push to get a new like Iran of course, or
someun Arabia, et cetera. So they say it's it's kind
of like a terrible, a terrible comparison a camera which
what professor told me this but terrible comparison is imagine
(07:24):
you go to somebody's house and it's the neighbor you
don't like in your neighborhood, and you say, hey, is
it true that you keep a secret child in the basement,
And they say, well, we we're not gonna acknowledge that.
We don't want to introduce it because you know, other kids,
other people in the neighborhood would also want to have kids.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Oh there are there are a lot of other there.
We wouldn't be the first one to have a secret
kid in the basement. So right, that's weird. That's weird.
It is a strange policy position to have an unacknowledged
nuclear arsenal but also be so adamant that another country
in the region not have nuclear weapons, to the point
where we find ourselves in this position today right where
(08:06):
we have this massive conflict with Israel in the US
attacking Iran right now to prevent them from having these
nuclear weapons, and also seeing Iran didn't Iran attack that
facility that you just mentioned, like the Demona facility at
one point earlier this year, and then there have been
further attempts to attack that facility. I guess we'll.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Course, yeah, yeah, a compound if you want. Yeah. That's
a great point, man, because we know that one of
the ways Ally powers, as well as Russia and China,
one of the ways that they try to prevent other
countries from having nuclear weapons is through doing bilateral agreements
(08:49):
or international agreements where they say, hey, we have the nukes,
we're friends with you, so if something happens, you just
call us up, man, and we'll come through. You just
can't keep our guns at the house, right or you
can't have your own guns, but will hang out at
your house with ours. And it's so strange because also
(09:11):
this surreal position, this woo do we have nukes? We
don't know what knows. Western countries have also tolerated this,
They've gone along with it. So you're never going to
hear an official statement from Western governments that is not
(09:34):
couched in pretending to play this game. That's why we'll
hear experts say stuff like Israel is widely believed to
have nukes when they say widely believed, they're saying, we
know they have nukes, but we have to like play
along with Graham.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
We can't absolutely just say it outright.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
It's one of the worst kept open secrets on the planet.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
It's it's just so strange, man, it's kind of strange.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I don't even know what to say about it. Why
keep up the charade? Like the why? Why?
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Right?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Why?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Their Their idea is that if they keep up this
policy of ambiguity, then at least what the Israeli government
is saying is that if they keep the policy of ambiguity,
other nations won't be champion at the bit as much
to get nuclear weapons.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
But doesn't it wouldn't it increase it though, because now
you're talking about secrecy. Now you're talking about secret stuff
happening in the dark rather than in the open. So
then everybody has to assume what's occurring, right, and often
we've found I think that countries' powers will assume that
the enemy is doing even worse stuff than they actually are,
(10:55):
out of a greater like to prepare for the worst, Right,
that's always the goal.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Right, hope for the best prepare for the worst. This
thing is is a very flimsy fig leaf, and I
think a lot of us can agree with that, especially
because here's how bad of a secret. This is, how
open this secret is. Despite this official stance, it is
incredibly common for individual politicians and military leaders across the planet,
(11:22):
including Israeli politicians and military leaders, talk very openly about
their nuclear capabilities, even though you know, and quickly add,
if they did exist, like, if they did exist, you know,
we could put them on German subs, which just happened,
by the way, we could put them in the air,
we could put them on land. It's silly, but it
(11:46):
does make a lot of sense. And then also, even
though they don't don't have nukes, they're one of the
countries that has consistently refused to sign the Treaty on
Non Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, very very fine line. Oh.
In another reason they won't confirm it, dude, is because
if they confirm it officially, that also means they would
(12:10):
have to confirm how they got the nuclear technology. And
that's a sticky wicket.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Well, I mean we can guess that it was the Americans, right,
I mean, the Americans created them. And then pretty cushy
hanging out together in ninety Wasn't nineteen forty eight the
time when Israel formed, isn't it? Or is it a
run around there? Yeah, so the timing works out pretty well.
(12:36):
Just just say.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
It's interesting and you're close, dude. It's a story the
Jedi won't tell you. Folks. Yes, Israel became independent in
nineteen forty eight after the Arab Israeli War established that independence.
The first prime minister, a guy named David Ben Gurion,
always wanted nuclear capability. He saw that as a crucial
(13:00):
step toward preventing another holocaust, another genocide, and they even
sent operatives out across the world, including to the United States,
to specifically recruit scientists. They vastly preferred Jewish scientists for
a nuclear program. They were doing this before nineteen forty eight.
(13:21):
But they also knew a lot of these folks who
were their supposed allies, their supposed Western allies. They didn't
want Israel to have a bomb. So it wasn't the
US that helped them in the beginning. It was France
Viva lat.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, I know, that's the story, man. I just feel
do you ever get the feeling that the official history
stuff is just kind of put there in the same
way to mislead people. And I know that doesn't mean
rethink all of history or any of those any of that,
and I don't mean I distrust all of history. I
feel like with something this this secretive still today in
(14:01):
twenty twenty six, it feels like maybe they would build
an entire cover story for this entire thing.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I understand that instinct, and I definitely agree that history
is a conversation. But from what I've looked into the story,
as we know, it was not the official story for
quite some time as well, and parts of it have
never been verified by France or by Israel. So I
(14:29):
think this was the true conspiracy, and it's quite Yeah,
It's clear that factions of the US government or scientists
based in the US US Nationals definitely did want to help,
but Eisenhower did not, to be very clear, So if
there was assistance coming from the United States government in
(14:51):
some sort of subterfuge or skulled duggery, then it was
definitely not at the approval of the White House or
the larger military like and France was only doing this,
by the way, because these guys don't have altruism at
this level. France is doing this because they are already
the principal arm supplier for Israel, and Israel is playing
(15:13):
a huge role in France's intel operations as their colonial
control of North Africa starts to slip. So they're saying,
if you keep snitching for us, right, and you keep
buying our stuff, then maybe we can help each other
out a little bit. Like they even let scientists from
(15:35):
Israel's still hidden nuclear program roam around France's nuclear compound
and they get asked whatever questions. It was a redditt ama,
and they said, look if we can have because everybody's
still trying to figure out nukes at this point, right,
to make them better. So France's thinking was, as far
as we know that, if we can get the smartest
(15:57):
folks in Israel's nuclear program to hang out with us, right,
to just be lunch room buddies, then all of the access,
like all of the research they do, we will learn
and so maybe we can even start building better nukes
than the United States.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Oh yeah, you can imagine that. But all of this
is under the guise of peaceful nuclear energy, right, That's
how it got spun to the US population immediately after
the bombs were dropped, like, here's the future energy source
that we can all use. We need these things all
over the place because eventually they'll be our main power source.
(16:36):
And then you can see, you know, the United States
had that whole program that we talked about several episodes ago,
where the US would export essentially nuclear energy technology, know how, blueprints,
all of that stuff. If you as a country said hey,
we are just gonna pursue the peaceful nuclear energy. We're
(16:56):
not gonna try and spin up a bunch of things, and.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Our ambassadors did a pinky swear. Guys, this is so serious.
It's all peaceful and so and you know, Matt, you
and I have talked about this for years now. The
issue is what makes that such I'll say it, what
makes it such utter bulks, is that the same process
(17:20):
of refinement that you use to make material for a
nuclear power plant is the pretty much the same process
used to make weapons. So imagine if the imagine if
you knew how to build a washing machine for clothing, right,
and you said, Okay, I know how to build a
(17:42):
washing machine, and it's going to make my country way better.
It's going to make my house way better. It just
so happens that the exact process for building a washing
machine is the process for building a bomb. And one
of them will wash one of them cleans you know,
you're under rus and the other one blows up the neighborhood.
(18:03):
So you just gotta.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Trust it's just lint en Richmond, that's all we're doing.
Just it's some extra lint enrichment to U two thirty
five lint.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Right right right, And sometimes you know, plutonium, it's just
another brand of detergents. You guys are tripping us.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Or it's got those scent crystals in it, you know,
just dump it in before it's fine.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And then they're like, oh, okay, well can I look
at the washing machine? Absolutely not, yeah, yeah, don't go
in the basement where we keep the kid either. So this,
I mean, it gets messy and messy.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
It's his story a tip for tats quid pro quos.
And like you said, it's always advertised as peaceful nuclear research.
Check out the amazing videos of the amazing propaganda pieces
that the United States had on this for decades and
also so the US at the same time to our
(19:02):
earlier point about history. They're getting more and more mythed
that Israel will not let anybody see their nuclear facility.
And they're like, hey, guys, we got a bunch of spies.
They're just gonna say, we got we got we know
what's going on, Okay, we know what's in the basement.
And they said, well, you don't have to inspect this
because look, man, it's a textile factory. You already know
(19:27):
how rugs work. Yeah, you need our rug technology. And
then Britain conspired as well to supply nuclear material to Israel.
And then they also were like, mm whelo, chap, I
haven't heard a thing.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
God well, and everybody knows. Just going back to the
non Proliferation Treaty of it all, you said, Israel is
one of four countries of the nine that have never
joined in with any with the nuclear non proliferation treaty stuff.
(20:04):
Isn't it weird that there are nine countries that are
acknowledged to have these things and around half of them decided, hey,
it'd be a good idea to not make a bunch
more of these, to be careful to allow international inspectors
from the UN to come through that, you know, the
International Atomic Energy Agency is a good thing, and let's
all be above board. But there's still around half of
(20:27):
the countries that say, nah, we don't want anything to do.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
With that exactly. Yeah, it's a huge deal in nuclear
studies because it's the prisoner's dilemma in real life.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
It only works if everybody goes along, and if there's
even one dissenting party, much less several, then the whole
system is endangered. It's quite a fragile system, just like democracy.
You know, it's a democracy of nine countries, several of
(20:59):
which very much do not get along, right, so getting
them to agree on anything is kind of tough.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Democracy manifest from. I can't remember hearing it.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
I've remember heard it though, so okay. By nineteen sixty five,
this nation is capable of creating weapons grade plutonium, and
sometime around the Six Day War, shout out to the
USS liberty. They were able to launch full scale weapons production,
not deployment, but they were able to build the toys.
And at this point, the larger public of the world,
(21:34):
outside of the spoopy dupes and the experts that no
one believes, the larger public, including the public of the
nation of Israel, they don't know what's going on. They
don't know all the way up until the nineteen eighties
when an Israeli new technician with an awesome name Mordecai Vanunu.
(21:55):
I almost want to sound effect like when we like
an American dad. Did did you ever watch American Dad?
Speaker 3 (22:02):
I haven't seen that one.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Oh it's okay, there's a character. There's a character named
Ricky Spanish. We're not going to get into it. Shout
out to the twelve people who are laughing now. But
the Ricky Spanish character always comes with a sound cue,
so he's like Ricky Spanish and then a little bit
of Spanish guitar. So Bodekaiva New News sounds like it
(22:25):
needs a sound cue at the end, you.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Know, well it's this guy is just a dude doing
his job, but he's he's seeing what's happening, and he's
understanding it, and he's having a crisis because he's realizing that,
oh my god, like we're doing all this stuff. Nobody
knows what's happening here at this facility. So he gets
his camera out and he takes photographs of stuff that
(22:49):
shouldn't exist, at least officially.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Not in a textile factory.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
That's for sure, same factory we were talking about at
the very beginning of this.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
And that's where he's working. And he has, like you
were saying, tons of photographs. And despite these photographs being
widely published, first in British press and then around the world,
the government of Israel has still never once acknowledged these capabilities.
And that's why estimates even now in twenty twenty six
(23:21):
on their capabilities vary so widely. Like if you you know,
if you do a typical like Google or Wikipedias or
you'll see it's estimated that Israel has something between ninety
warheads or up to four hundred. That's a huge range,
especially for things that are this dangerous. But also that
(23:44):
is coming from expert research that is not just AI slop.
The rest of the world. I mean, probably a few
people know now, but the rest of the world for
most of the time had no idea how many Israel
actually possesses. And we still really don't, and you know,
(24:05):
it's hard to talk about it. Part of the reason
we have been so careful with this is because anti
Semitism gets caught up in the mix so very easily.
You know, a lot of racist. People are going, well, yes,
of course the nation of what other nation would lie?
And the answer is, folks, all of them, all of
the nations will lie to you whenever it benefits them.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Oh yeah, for sure. That's that's definitely one thing we
have discovered in all of our days, hours, minutes doing
this research. I do want to put this out there
just because it is. It's pretty easy to find if
you look up the Demona Research Center or the Negev
Nuclear Research Center. The full name if you want to
(24:51):
dive into the research is the Shimon Perez Negev Nuclear
Research Center. And you can see satellite footage of this
place from years and years and years ago up until
really recent satellite footage of the place, and that has
been reported on in recent news where they're looking at
(25:12):
new facilities. They call it this one thing that was
being built there earlier this year, the big black box.
Well that's what do you think that might be? Is
what the world press says. But just to put out
there that it exists. Right now, we are talking about
the history of this place and the research there and
all of the things and the reasons behind it. But
it exists, and you can look at it now right now,
(25:35):
if you want to mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And what you'll see here is similar in other countries.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
You can find a lot of nuclear facilities or suspected
nuclear facilities in all these other nine countries we've mentioned.
And you can also troublingly find facilities and would be
nuclear powered countries or nuclear capable countries as well. This
is another thing. Several of these countries that we're discussing,
(26:04):
they have what they call a no first use policy.
And here's the heart of our conspiracy tonight, folks. Israel
is a little bit different. They have something called the
Samson option. Let's say we take a break for a
word from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy, all right,
(26:27):
no first use. Let's get this out of the way.
It's just what it sounds like. Everybody is essentially standing
at the great, the Great Tombstone Arizona gunfight that is
the modern world. And these nine guys have guns, and
a lot of them say, we're not going to be
the first guys to shoot because we see ourselves as
(26:50):
the good guys.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Well that's nice, love it, And theoretically nobody ever shoots
because nobody's ever going to be a First, here's the
problem talked about before. There's this thing called, well, a
couple of things. One of them is called terrorism, which
means theoretically, somebody could gain a hold get like get
a nuke and set it off, and now none of
(27:12):
the nine people holding the guns is the first one
to shoot. Somebody else found a gun and shot. Now
everybody can shoot, right, because everybody is able to and
they're allowed to with their first no first rule. The
other thing is the false flag potential there. Right, maybe
somebody lets a nuke out so that it can go off,
(27:33):
and now they get to use their nukes.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah, it's once you pop the seal. It's very easy
for that domino effect to occur because some countries have
a policy that says there will be repercussions up to
and including us launching nukes if somebody else does it,
because we, you know, because we're not just the good guys,
(27:56):
but like every country, we're the main character. It's it's
so it's similar to it's similar to something we brought
up before. There is a world of difference between Google's
old motto don't be evil and the other version be good.
So no first use is not the same thing as
saying we're never ever going to use this because we're
(28:17):
the good guys. It just means that they have agreed
that if any of the other eight countries, or even
a rogue actor with a dirty bomb or a maybe
one of those backpack nukes that we're working on for
a while, if another actor launches those, then it's Katie
bar the door. They are going to be heavy consequences.
(28:39):
You will get that smoke. The nation of Israel does
not have a first use policy. Instead, they have what
we unofficially call the Samson option, and that is massive retaliation.
We're talking about this a little bit off air. It
speaks to the history of the region. It speaks to
(28:59):
is regional and indeed international posture. They're saying, look, we
don't care of a threat to our country has nuclear ability.
If that, if any other country invades or these the
phrase destroys much of Israel, or if it's an existential threat,
(29:22):
we will use the nukes as a last resort. I
know I'm cursing a lot on this episode tonight, folks,
but it is scary stuff. Think of it like back
in our neighborhood comparison. Think of it as saying like
they know this is disproportionate response. They're saying, oh, you
want to break into my house, fine, oh burn down,
Oh goddamn neighborhood. Let's see who's crazier. You want to
(29:46):
see crazy? That's what it is.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Well, that's why it's called the Samson.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Anyone, break out your bibles, head on over to Judges
sixteen if you want to, you just start with thirteen
and learn the whole same since saga. But if you
go to sixteen, you'll learn Samson's whole story is about
just vengeance, kind of a little cycle of vengeance where
he's killing Philistines, sometimes hundreds of Philistines, sometimes thousands of Philistines.
(30:15):
Sometimes he is putting his hands on two pillars and
bringing an entire temple down on himself and all of
the Philistine leaders and soldiers, thousands of them that are there.
Because gum, like literally, that's like the situation. It's exactly
what you described, Ben. I will kill myself if it
(30:36):
means it kills you two.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah, right, you want to dance. That's wait, that's ah,
that's Michael Keaton in something.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
But it's genuinely a scary it's a scary set of
stories within the Bible, because it really does. I'm just
looking through it, reading about it, and there's so many
times where Samson just it says, the spirit of the
Lord comes upon him, and then he just murders a
(31:07):
ton of people. At one point he gets a donkey's
jawbone and kills a thousand men. Good God, just an angry,
angry dude with the spirit of the Lord. You know,
he just rages out and kills a bunch of people,
but he's venerated as some kind of hero. It's really
it's messed up, man. And you know what, we never
(31:29):
even learned the name of his mom throughout the entirety
of the Bible. We know his dad's name, but his
mom was just a woman who was considered a barren
and an angel came to her and said, hey, you're
gonna have a baby if you don't drink wine or
eat anything unclean, and your congratulations. You have like a
special boy. And he's gonna he's gonna have hair that
(31:49):
connects him to the Lord and makes him crazy powerful,
and he's gonna kill thousands of humans.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Sorry, I don't mean to speak down about the Bible.
It's just it's a wild story to base anything on.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Well, he's also and also he's a judge. We got
to put that care. That's why it's the Book of Judges, right,
That's why he's in that part. It is. It is wild,
and it definitely has that grand, almost theatrical gravitas that
is common in some of these conversations, you know, and
this is this is very scary, does match some of
(32:28):
the biblical lore of this Judge Samson, because we see
that most experts who have analyzed this, and experts with
secret clearance right with access to classified research, they say
that the Samson option, if deployed, would likely include deliberate
(32:48):
strikes against non military targets similar to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
This would hit cities that means schools, that means hospitals,
that means civilians. This is seen by everybody body else
has a clear violation of international humanitarian law. So, despite
you're hearing this right, folks, fellow conspiracy realist, despite not
(33:09):
having nuclear weapons wish wish air quotes, the Israeli military
and government have repeatedly reminded the Middle East and the
world overall that anybody looking for smoke is welcome to
fa fo on a nuclear level. And the rest of
the world doesn't really agree with this. They don't see
(33:31):
that as retaliation, they see that as a pre emptive
nuclear strike. We also got to shout out Seymour Hirsch,
who wrote a landmark book about this that popularize the
term the Samson option, Israel's nuclear arsenal and American foreign policy.
And it's all about how the US, which has a
close relationship a troubled relationship with Israel, has gone back
(33:55):
and forth on this on whether this is right, how
this works, versus their relationship with other friendly nuclear powers
like France or like the United Kingdom. And to be clear, folks,
to be clear, obviously we're talking about a country. We're
not talking about a people here, because the people of
(34:16):
Israel didn't get to vote on this. But to be
even more crystal clear, everybody hates this idea. Everybody in
the room thinks this is a terrible, terrible idea because
they know that if Israel were to bomb Ran with
a nowp tonight, then before dawn of the next day,
(34:39):
surrounding enemy nations would launch their own attacks in turn,
which could in turn retrigger the Sampson option, leading to
yet more nuclear attacks of course on military installations, of course,
but then also on heavily occupied civilian areas. So in
a very very very short period of time, the region
(35:00):
could crumble into smoking wasteland. This is a dark wind, dude.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Well yeah, well we've seen what some of the targets
are for multiple countries against other countries, right, and we
know it's military, it's infrastructure, and then it becomes population centers.
There's the that's the way the targets go. You destroy
(35:28):
communications and the ability for your enemy to like target
things and prevent missiles from coming in. You prevent them
from communicating with each other. You prevent them from being
able to launch other things, right, you prevent them from
being able to launch other military strikes, conventional military strikes.
Then you turn off the power and the water and
all these other things, and then you take out the
(35:49):
city centers so nobody can rebuild. And it is just
it's end of the world stuff. It's fallout stuff. It's
the freaking silo, it's all those things. It's just and
it's ready to go, and we keep humanity keeps putting
itself in these positions where we're in a tinder box
and ready ready for it to explode. And I don't know,
(36:11):
man it because right now we've got multiple fronts where
this could potentially set off. Right, the Middle East is
definitely one, but we're also looking at your Ukraine and
Russia right now, and how much forces are gathering there
that are not just Ukraine and Russia, and how many
nuclear weapons potentially are at play there. We're seeing it
happen in the South trynes See and Taiwan and all
(36:33):
these other things. Just the potential for something to go
bad with one thing, and the Samson option just I
don't know. I don't know if it's better or worse,
or it feels like it's worse. Just that whole you know,
come at us too hard and we're gonna nuke some
stuff that it just feels horrifying. Man.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah. And there's reason, folks that I'm mentioning dark wind
and the mats mentioning fallout because this domino effect, right,
this mad cap doomsday scenario for the Middle East, it
would inevitably affect other places that are not involved, just
(37:14):
because of regional weather systems. So countries that were not
directly involved, like Turkey would be a big one right
right there kind of in the area. They could find
their own citizens affected by radiation, so what would they do?
And then if any other nuclear power deploys their own
weapons against Israel because they have friends right who have
(37:38):
been attacked, then it has to theoretically pull a Samson
again and fire back. It's highly unlikely, let's say, virtually
impossible that the US or European allies whatever bomb Israel,
But China is an open question. And then we have
to ask about what you know, Pakistan or India or
North Korea?
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Well, Ben, do we really do we really think that
the tracking capabilities, the technologies that exist right now are
such that there is no way another country in that
region has nuclear capabilities and it's just either unknown or
(38:17):
somebody looked the other way, or they built an underground
facility like Iran did, and they built it a long
time ago and they've been refining materials, Like do we
really think we can prove or know for sure that
nobody else has nukes in the region.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
In terms of industrial capability like manufacturing capability, we're pretty
confident just because of the chain of resource control. But
in terms of like an individual thing maybe from the
fall of the Soviet Union, or maybe like a rogue
aq con type scientist, maybe somebody like the fall of
(38:53):
the Soviet Union is a big concern. But then you
know the idea that maybe and extreamist in an extremist
faction or cabal in Pakistan could conspire. There are possibilities
of individual things leaking out, But a great deal of
time and energy is spent not just tracking down the
(39:16):
chain of anything that could be used for manufacturing, but
also trying to keep a close account on the number
of nukes overall.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Well, yeah, and we know the human beings, Like it
requires human beings with no how and training or understanding
to be able to run facilities, right that might refine
plutonium or uranium or whatever. And we've seen that state
powers will murder those folks if they seem to pose
(39:45):
a threat. Right. I guess all of that stuff makes sense.
It just feels like there's so much money in a
place like Saudi Arabia that has a sovereign wealth fund
or you know, that's just one country. There are many
countries in the region that have fast resources of money
that could be used to pull an individual in or
you know, to build a facility or to dig down
(40:07):
and create something. I just I don't know it. The
confidence maybe that especially Western powers feel or have the
thing that you see like that. It's not necessarily bravado,
but it's a confidence like we know everything that's happening
at all times, that feeling that you get it. To
(40:29):
my mind, it feels as though that is a posture
more than a reality. But maybe I'm just completely off
base there, and I think it's I think it's important
to show that outwardly or to make people think that
more so than it is.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
And this this is uh, this is a good point.
This is why I'm drawing such a sharp distinction between
manufacturing capability and individual warheads. So finding manufactor xuring capability
is going to be a lot easier because they are
much There are many more opportunities to get a peek
(41:08):
into what's happening. Right, you have to build stuff, you
have to assemble stuff. You can't make it all on
your own domestically. That's why North Korea needed a q
CON and some help from China. But if we talk
about an individual warhead, then we're getting a lot closer
to something like a needle in a haystack. That's why
(41:29):
we talk about these extremist actors. You know, somebody's able
to get the one thing from you know, I'm not
trying to pick on Pakistan, but someone's trying to get
the one thing from the stands somewhere, a former Soviet
country or something, and they, perhaps because of their motivation,
are not a rational actor, right, So they're not concerned.
(41:51):
They don't give a tinker's damn about mutually short destruction.
They just want to blow stuff up. They don't care
about the consequences. That's one of the big ones. And
I love the foreshadowing about just real quick point. I
love the foreshadowing about the idea of posture versus practicality,
(42:13):
because supporters of this policy are saying that not having
Samson on the table is more dangerous than having it.
And they're also they're also going to say, some supporters
will say, we don't think Samson will ever be used.
(42:34):
Its advantage, its edge is entirely because it is a posture,
which I don't know if I entirely buy that, but
that's what that's what a lot of people will say.
And then more hawkish folks are going to say another
thing that I don't fully agree with that I think
is kind of propagandistic, more like military gung ho types
(42:57):
are going to say, I support this poul See because
if allies of Israel know that Samson is on the table,
they're going to be more likely to assist Israel in
a conflict, hoping to nip things in the butt before
Samson gets activated again. I don't know if that we
could count that as analysis or more like salesmanship and
(43:20):
wishful thinking. That's just my take. Again, I might be
off base.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
No, I hear you.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
I keep thinking.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
I keep thinking about the It was a country in Africa,
the yellow cake from Niger maybe, and the aluminum tubes
from or they got them in a different country. The
stuff that was heading towards a rock that was a
big deal was made out of Hey, we have to
go in there and stop them from enriching uranium. And
(43:53):
because they're trying to get the components you would need
from all these other places. I think it was Jordan
maybe where the aluminum tubes were. It makes me think
that somebody is some watchdog, is looking at these things
and they are paying attention. It does make me think
that I don't know, man, I'm just gonna choose right now.
(44:18):
I'm gonna choose to believe that we know everything that's
going on in our the spoopy doupe. So the absolute best,
the ones that are paying attention to this stuff, and
it's all gonna be.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Okay unless they get corrupted or out, or unless there's
or unless you know, you use a a Belgian mining
company as a front to get yellow cake of uranium
from from the Democratic Republic of Conggo, which definitely happened,
(44:48):
just like the British used a Norwegian proxy. Once you
get private industry in there, man, you can do a
lot of other fun Slight of hand magic tricks. Also
shout out to most death in uh, that old Dave
Chappelle sketch where he plays the president and they talk
about finding yellow cake and most steps he just has
(45:08):
he has yellow Angel's food cake and a napkin. It
was right up there with that with whomever. I think
they lied to Colon Powell too about the w MTS,
But it's right up there with that moment where someone's like, yeah,
aluminum tubes and that press conference look kind of silly.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
Those aluminum tubes. Again, like I I was pretty young.
I was like a high schooler when all that was happening,
and I never really saw the aluminum tubes they were
talking about, or you know, what they looked like or
how big they were. So I just imagine the aluminum tubes.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
I was aware of the Red Old's rap.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
Well, yeah, rails, rap were things you might find in
a bathroom. They are holding up the shower curtain like, oh,
that's an aluminum.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Tube that could build a nuke? Right now, what's in
this soap? So it's uh, it is that there's a
lot of back and forth and there are a lot
of postures and public presentations. To be honest, undiplomatically, there's
a lot of theater in this kind of stuff. And
you could say that some of it's necessary. You could
(46:16):
say that some of it just complicates the issue. But
to put it diplomatically, critics refuse to hear any of
the supporters arguments. They say, this is absolutely bonkers. The
potential for disaster outweighs the advantages any advantages of posturing.
But what would happen? What if it actually happened? We
(46:38):
have to be clear with you folks, first off, yes,
the nation of Israel can absolutely do this. They do
have the capability. The policy of ambiguity is a ridiculous thing.
But from their ideal perspective, they're saying, nobody really wants
to reach this point. Thank goodness, we know that nuclear
(47:01):
retaliation in their minds would remove the present threat, whatever
that may be. And additionally, it would set an example
of how anybody else thinking of an attack, because they
would be thinking, holy crap, these guys weren't joking. They
really will go Samson. And then they'll say okay. That
would also give us a window of time to repair
(47:22):
secure resources and civilians get assistance from our allies, and
those allies are probably also going to bring in troops
and munitions, humanitarian aid, etc. Will soldier on. But the
ideal scenario, no matter how smart people think they are,
man the ideal scenario seldom happens in real life. We'll
(47:43):
see a domino effect. We'll see other we'll see allies
of if it's another country that gets attacked, if it's
Iraan that gets newked, we will see whatever allies are
bound by pre existing agreements with Iran probably have to
jump in and retaliate. On some level themselves. And then
(48:04):
there's another thing with the dimension of proxies, right, and
then they get Samson, and then those countries have other allies,
or those proxies have other allies, or those terrorist groups
have other allies, and then they get Samson, and all
of a sudden, mad doesn't matter, right, because at each
step nations that have treaties with Israel are also getting
(48:27):
pulled in. It's got to think of like NATO and
Article five. You know what I mean, so ugly, so quickly.
I don't know, man, Do you want to take an
ad break and talk about the aftermath here? No?
Speaker 3 (48:42):
But I think we should.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
We're back, folks, and you can tell again how creeped
out we are by this. We hope you're creeped out
by it too. We are being really diplomatic when we
say the aftermath would be insane. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:06):
I keep thinking about Samson. Man in the story, the
woman that he loves betrays him by accepting an offer
of thousands of shekels in silver.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
From the Philistines.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Right, Yes, to figure out what Samson's weakness is, like,
how do we get the spirit of the Lord out
of him so we won't murder a bunch of us
when we try and capture him, and she tries over
and over and over to get him to tell her
what's going on, and then betray him, and he flwarts
her a bunch of times, and finally he tells her,
you just cut my hair, and they cut his hair.
(49:40):
They come in, they capture him, and the first thing
the Philistines do is the gouge's eyes out, And so,
like you're imagining again, we're talking about a cycle of
vengeance here, right, Samson gets vengeance on the Philistines. The
Philistines want to get vengeance on Samson for murdering thousands
of people. And then it just continues and continue. And
(50:01):
the more I think about this, the concept of bringing
the entire temple down on yourself, just despite all the
other folks that wronged you. At one point, it's so
I was gonna say selfish. I don't know, maybe that's
the wrong word for it.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
But it's a pyrrhic victory as well. It's a victory
that destroys the victory.
Speaker 3 (50:28):
Yes, And and how many people do you have to
take with it? The people like people? How many people
are in that temple to diagon or part of that
feast to dagon are actually a part of people that
cause Samson harm right, that he would enact an eye
for an eye vengeance on And then how many are
just there?
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Yeah, how many people, especially when we're talking about situations
like this, how many people living in various Middle Eastern
countries have been trying to leave? How many families have
been trying to get out already, you know, for years,
for decades, and they want no part of this conflict.
When elephants make war, its the grass that suffers in
(51:10):
the aftermath of this. Even in the most ideal scenario
of the Samson option, thousands, hundreds of thousands of people
would still die as as collateral damage, and the nation
of Israel would become a pariaused state on a global level,
another knock on effect that people might not think about
(51:32):
because it's so unpleasant. There are other innocent people would
never be affected by radiation because of where they live,
who will still get killed because of the Samson option,
particularly people of the Jewish faith or Jewish heritage in
the diaspora across the planet. A massive wave of hate crimes,
(51:53):
terrorist attacks, maybe persecution by their own governments that can happen. This,
This can still happen in twenty twenty six. People of
Jewish origin with no Israeli's citizenship, folks who have never
been to Israel or thought about it, never practiced Judaism
would still be targeted as representatives of a nation that
(52:15):
they've never known. And then also, oh my gosh, what
if you're one of the other eight nuclear powered countries
you see, Sampson, Remember we were talking about new first use.
You're going to start rethinking your own nuclear policy. You
are going to have that oh crap, it can happen moment,
and you might become more pacifistic, less warlike, but history
(52:41):
proves you're probably going to become more hardline. You're going
to take the safety off your gun, even if you
don't pull the trigger.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
I keep thinking about Gaza and the things we've seen
happening there exactly right as as vengeance, like acts of
vengeance against a group that has wronged someone right and
like absolutely done wrong and like it's horrible, right, one
horrible action after another. We see that. But then I'm
(53:11):
trying to imagine if there was another nuclear capable country
in the region, like in Iran, would there be a
pushback against the vengeance one way or the other. Right,
would there be a balancing of some sort or would
would it immediately turn into Samson option or you know,
I'm imagining it might actually be an okay thing if
(53:34):
there was a balancing force.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yeah, that's something that's something people stay up all night
thinking about and arguing about, right, and lose some of
their careers over at times because people aren't sure the
thing is. Nuclear weaponry is relatively new in the Great
Grand scheme of things. It's one of the most dangerous
(53:58):
things people have invented. Did very few countries have it,
which means that we have a dearth of sample sizes
we have, we have scant precedent for what would occur
other than post World War two and mad We know
that a bunch of countries would immediately Countries that have
capability to get this stuff would immediately redouble their efforts
(54:20):
to acquire the bob Just a few Republic of Koreas,
South Korea, Japan, definitely, Latin America, South Africa, definitely, Saudi Arabia.
To your point, this is one of the greatest conspiracies
in all the modern history.
Speaker 3 (54:35):
Absolutely, Sorry, Ben, I keep almost making a point, and
then I miss it. The biggest The biggest point is
it goes back to our discussion about how having a
nuclear arsenal makes other countries listen to you and at
least care that you have an opinion about something you
(54:57):
as a country are doing. So I do under and
that's all I mean by balancing force. I don't mean, hey,
now we've got more nukes pointed at each other. It's
just now we've actually we might actually have countries who
give a crap what the other one says and what
their opinion is of our actions, rather than hey, we
can we have secret nukes that we can just kind
(55:17):
of do what we want.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
Yeah, well, once the nukes are in the public, that
would that would potentially we're talking about balance. The reason
those countries will listen to each other is because of
mad Right. So if if other countries went nuclear gained
that capability, That's why I'm saying with like, definitely Saudi
Arabia for instance, right, or other very very wealthy, even
(55:40):
the geographically smaller countries in the region, would have a
do you have a stronger voice when you go nuclear? Right?
That that is that is one of those very scant
precedents we possess, but given the deep descent and historic
ConFlat in the region, we cannot assume that our other
(56:05):
precedents a balance of power would hold, because this would
be a new animal, and the fate of the world
is writing on it. Also, it may sound like we're
picking on certain countries here, folks, Again, we assure you
that we are talking only about governments and only about
technology here. We're not necessarily talking We're not trying to
(56:27):
put a personality read on any nation of millions of people.
And we also need you to know that the Samson
option itself is kind of unique, but it is far
from the only terrifying nuclear doctrine. The United States historically
has no problem bombing civilian populations with nukes. It happened twace.
(56:49):
We also we explored the true story of another very
scary thing, Russia's infamous dead Hand, which it's hard to
say that without doing a heavy metal voice.
Speaker 3 (57:04):
Yeah, that's a scary one. That sets off all of
the missiles to strike all of the targets simultaneously to
make sure your enemy can again, it's Samson like, to
make sure your enemy cannot win this conflict.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
Yeah, Bernie down the house. We also, I mean Soviet plan, right,
so we know that the Soviet Union dissolved. A lot
of the experts still think dead hand is active in
some capability. But because Russia is a kleptocracy now, it's
really a big question of how much of how many
(57:40):
of their warheads still work, you know, and how many
just fell to misuse and corruption. Oh yeah, because once
you build these things, there are such a pain in
the ass to maintain. It's like how you know, any
good gun owner knows that you need to train regularly
and you need to always clean the mechanism. Right, That's
(58:01):
like a nuclear warhead is that times a million, and
if something goes wrong you die of radiation, sickness and exposure.
So they're hard to they're hard to keep going. What's
another example. What's another thing that's hard to keep going?
Saltwater fish, an octopus in an aquarium.
Speaker 3 (58:19):
Drums man drums. It's hard to keep them things tuned correctly,
especially if you're using them.
Speaker 2 (58:24):
But also if you just leave them humidity.
Speaker 3 (58:27):
Maybe yeah, yeah, if you just leave alone for a
long time, though sound terrible, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
I think those are great examples. The octopus in the aquarium,
the drums in the basement. Oh gosh, kids in the basement.
It's it's crazy, because you know, there are there are
other flash points. One that we mentioned a while ago
that we didn't talked about here, just so you know.
(58:54):
We mentioned South China see East Asian sphere. We mentioned
Ukraine and Russia obviously the Middle East. Also Pakistan, India
and China, who are so ready to rock and roll,
like scary scary ready to rock and roll. What better
time for what better time for a possible Chinese invasion
(59:17):
of Taiwan or a Pakistan India conflict than when the
entirety of the rest of the world is distracted in
the Middle East. So this thing could, with the best
of intentions, this Samson option could have, could create other
conflicts a world away just because of the chaos. Yeah, we're.
Speaker 3 (59:44):
Keep getting this underlying feeling been that something really bad
is going to happen here stateside before the election this year.
Speaker 2 (59:53):
Yeah, for the midterms.
Speaker 3 (59:55):
Yeah, And I'm trying very hard not to do too
much tea reading, you know, and putting my own spin
and bias on news stories that come out. But I
swear man, I don't want to say some of the
things I'm thinking out loud because it's weird, because it
does make you feel when you're paying enough attention, it
(01:00:16):
makes you feel like you can kind of almost see
the future in a little bit, like in a small way.
Do you ever get that ben where you're just reading
some of the geopolitical things that are happening, and then
you're just kind of going, Oh, somebody's preparing for X
or X is going to match up really well with
what why is doing over there?
Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Uh oh, I'll say it. I will not be surprised
if a false flag event occurs prior to the midterms,
either on domestic soil or on an international sphere. I
will definitely not be surprised if the current US regime
attempts to invalidate the midterms. And I think democracy has
(01:00:55):
ever been a fragile experiment. The United States is at
Jenga tower right now, and we're halfway through the game,
right so every block that gets pulled, and every time
it's someone else's turn, we get a little closer to collapse.
Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
It keeps feeling to me like the group in charge
right now is preparing to change leaders.
Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Right. Yes, agreed, that's a good way to put it,
and that is diplomatic. And in addition, that the global
order is changing. America was once the United States was
once the pre eminent superpower of the post World War
two planet for better or worse. But now well, Uncle
Sam is flagging, you know. It's got a dry cough,
(01:01:39):
can't run as faster as long as he used to.
He's running out of his toys. It's a diletent but
not quite official war on Iran in partnership with Israel
in Saudi Arabia. It's draining resources even now the US,
even as the US population is suffering financial hardship from corruption, inflation,
Kleptocras see a sharp decline in education, which happened way
(01:02:03):
I don't know about you, guys. That happened way faster
than I thought it would. NATO is in endangered, the
UN is like the League of Nations, for Pete's sake,
it's find itself more and more toothless. You don't see
much about all of this combined in your local news
shows or your local YouTube channel check out stuff they
don't want YouTube, No, But I'm right there with you
(01:02:25):
because I'm seeing things where it sound it feels not
even conspiratorial, but it feels increasingly implausible to ignore what
appear to be stronger and stronger correlations and connections. So
maybe we're both bubbled, you know. And hey, if you're
(01:02:46):
there with us, welcome to the bubble. Thanks for hanging out,
dip in.
Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
What what a filthy bubble to be in? This is?
This thing is gross.
Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Bring more coffee, by the way, yes, bring more coffee.
Freak a monster fort coffee for me and to you
for Dylan. The world as we know it is, Yeah,
it's always been teetering on the edge lapse, though the
good guys are more than capable of rationalizing very bad actions.
(01:03:18):
This is the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
I don't know how do we stop the cycle of vengeance?
Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
Like?
Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
How do you? How do you? Is the only way
to stop a cycle of vengeance? One one side of
a conflict just decides Okay, that's enough.
Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
Do you mean in international affairs or just in general?
Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
I mean in general? I mean you could just take
two people right that are continually doing each other wrong
and then declaring vengeance, you know, for the previous action.
It just goes on and on and on and on.
It is like, I don't know if there's a philosophical
answer to that and an actionable answer to something like that,
or if it really is somebody has to give give
in in a way and say we're finished here, there's
(01:03:57):
no more of that.
Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Well, it usually in that field, you know, reconciliation. Reconciliation
in the Balkans is a good example in international affairs
and on a peer to peer level or a person
person level microcosm, both parties have to be have to
(01:04:21):
be self aware enough without being self centered, to admit,
to admit brongs and to give space to the other person.
So oftentimes when you feel like you're arguing with another person,
you know, you don't see yourself as a bad guy,
they don't see themselves as the bad guy, but they
will not accept you as being a good guy. Or
(01:04:44):
then you know, now we're getting into personality stuff because
they won't accept that you also, I don't want to
use this phrase here because of the subject matter, but
that you have a right to exist, and that's something
that is really difficult for people and for nations, and
(01:05:07):
this leads us to this leads us to a bright
side though as well, because you know, the cynic will argue,
or the nihilists will argue, or the AI program in
some cases will argue that the ultimate way to end
human conflict is to remove the problem of humanity.
Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
A lot of sci fi is about that. I don't
think we're there yet. Good news, right, because we all
have stuff to do later this week, so the week
will continue. I think the US will solderraw on or
I hope and we want. I don't know, Matt. I
can't wait to hear from people around the world about this.
From our fellow conspiracy realist. There's so many ways to
(01:05:50):
contact us, folks. Thank you as always for tuning in,
whether it was on Netflix or your podcast platform and choice.
Please stay safe out there, Please give us your thoughts
so we'd love to hear from you. You can find
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derivation thereof. And we also have a phone number.
Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
Yes we do. You can leave a voicemail right now
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Just turn those letters into numbers and give it a call.
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(01:06:27):
It's on the audio feeds, not on Netflix if you
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Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
We are the entities that redeach piece of correspondence we receive.
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Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production
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From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
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Speaker 2 (00:12):
A production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Our colleague Nol is on an adventure, but we'll be
returning shortly.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you
are you. You are here for now, and that makes
this the stuff they don't want you to know. There's
a reason that we say here for now because this
episode is continuing part of our long term fascination. Matt.
(00:59):
This is why for all the nuke fans, nuclear fans,
if there is such a thing, fans of nuclear.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Weapons, yeah, we're all big fans of those things.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Just like trash can Man in the Stand. I recently
reread the unabridged version of The Stand and Man that
holds up despite some of Well, you could send us
your opinions about Stephen King, we'd love to hear them.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
I still haven't read it once, but I am still
thinking about our episode on the USS Liberty and the
history of the country of Israel, and I am like
kind of scared to do this topic just because it
makes me feel nervous because we are talking about nuclear
weapons and as we know, those things can end a
(01:50):
lot of stuff quickly.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah. Yeah, I was definitely dragging feet on this episode
for a while too, because it's an older concept a
lot of people aren't aware of unless you specifically look
into nuclear war, nuclear proliferation. You know, it's strange because
nuclear weapons are world enders potentially, they're so dangerous. They've
(02:15):
only been deployed twice in combat by Uncle Sam in Japan,
and just witnessing that made the entire world say, okay,
let's try to avoid this even with our enemies. Because
if one person or one nation launchers a nuke, other
ones will launch nukes in turn, a domino effect will occur.
(02:37):
It could in civilization, and that leads us to something
called mad mutually assured destruction. It's a theory that so
far still holds.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, the only good thing that nuclear weapons have brought
us is if you are a country and you have
those weapons, other countries are a little bit less dickish
to you. That's literally the good The good thing that
has happened because the threat of those weapons and mutually
assured destruction keeps other countries a little bit at bay.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I remember, I remember studying with some of my edgier
old professors who would talk about this, and there they
presented a series of great metaphors regarding how the tension
or as you said, the dictitionist builds as any other country,
even an ally attempts to gain the BOB. But once
(03:33):
they get the BOB, the tension eases because just having
that means you are a participant now in mad It
inherently ups your status in the world order. And that's
why once any country gains the capability of a nuclear weapon,
even if they don't really have the ability to launch
it effectively or reliably like North Korea the DPRK, they're
(03:55):
still not ever going to give it up. Think of
the lessons of Libya and other countries stepped back their
NWKE programs, it did not end well for them. In
different countries, they all have their own rules or policies
about how they could theoretically deploy one of these massive
weapons of destruction. One country in particular refuses to even
(04:19):
acknowledge whether they have these things in the first place.
That is tonight's grand conspiracy, Israel and something called the
Samson option.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Even though most of the other powers in the world
acknowledge it, we choose not to. It's very interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
It's Joseph Heller, It's Catch twenty two. We'll get into
it right after a word from our sponsors. Here are
the facts. Okay, So, out of all the one hundred
and ninety five or so countries on the planet recognized
by the United Nations, only nine are known to have
(05:02):
nuclear weaponry. They're most of the ones you expect. There
are some odd balls in the mix, Pakistan, India and
North Korea, and then of course the US, Russia, China, France,
the UK, the winners of World War two, and and
then Israel has nuclear weapons according to everybody on the
planet except for the nation of Israel. They it's because
(05:27):
they have a policy of deliberate ambiguity, which it's gonna
sound so surreal if you've never heard of it. A
lot of the a lot of like the international policy wonks.
We call it the bomb and the basement. They never
once submitted to having the bomb, but they also never
once denied it. Instead, they have these these very old
(05:52):
they're almost like catchphrases at this point. And I'm saying
this with respect because it is quite a clever policy.
They're saying. The biggest quote is if you ask them
about nuclear weaponry, Hey, tell us about that. Tell us
about that facility in Demona or whatever. First they, by
the way, they told the US it was a textile factory.
(06:14):
But now they say, Israel will not be the first
country to quote introduce nuclear weapons to the Middle East.
But when they say introduce, they don't mean it the
way everybody else means introduce when they speak English.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
That's so weird. They are they talking about, like Syria's
attempts to get a nuclear weapon or some of the
other countries in the Middle East that wanted to have
nuclear weapons.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
And I'm holding my forehead the way I'm sure US
ambassadors do when they're like, yeah, introduce, what do you mean, guys,
what do you mean introduce? They mean to that point, Mett,
they mean introduce as testing or formally acknowledging nuclear weapons,
because the idea is that if they do so with
(07:02):
so many enemies in the region, they'll exacerbate those countries
push to get a new like Iran of course, or
someun Arabia, et cetera. So they say it's it's kind
of like a terrible, a terrible comparison a camera which
what professor told me this but terrible comparison is imagine
(07:24):
you go to somebody's house and it's the neighbor you
don't like in your neighborhood, and you say, hey, is
it true that you keep a secret child in the basement,
And they say, well, we we're not gonna acknowledge that.
We don't want to introduce it because you know, other kids,
other people in the neighborhood would also want to have kids.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
Oh there are there are a lot of other there.
We wouldn't be the first one to have a secret
kid in the basement. So right, that's weird. That's weird.
It is a strange policy position to have an unacknowledged
nuclear arsenal but also be so adamant that another country
in the region not have nuclear weapons, to the point
where we find ourselves in this position today right where
(08:06):
we have this massive conflict with Israel in the US
attacking Iran right now to prevent them from having these
nuclear weapons, and also seeing Iran didn't Iran attack that
facility that you just mentioned, like the Demona facility at
one point earlier this year, and then there have been
further attempts to attack that facility. I guess we'll.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Course, yeah, yeah, a compound if you want. Yeah. That's
a great point, man, because we know that one of
the ways Ally powers, as well as Russia and China,
one of the ways that they try to prevent other
countries from having nuclear weapons is through doing bilateral agreements
(08:49):
or international agreements where they say, hey, we have the nukes,
we're friends with you, so if something happens, you just
call us up, man, and we'll come through. You just
can't keep our guns at the house, right or you
can't have your own guns, but will hang out at
your house with ours. And it's so strange because also
(09:11):
this surreal position, this woo do we have nukes? We
don't know what knows. Western countries have also tolerated this,
They've gone along with it. So you're never going to
hear an official statement from Western governments that is not
(09:34):
couched in pretending to play this game. That's why we'll
hear experts say stuff like Israel is widely believed to
have nukes when they say widely believed, they're saying, we
know they have nukes, but we have to like play
along with Graham.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
We can't absolutely just say it outright.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
It's one of the worst kept open secrets on the planet.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
It's it's just so strange, man, it's kind of strange.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I don't even know what to say about it. Why
keep up the charade? Like the why? Why?
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Right?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Why?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Their Their idea is that if they keep up this
policy of ambiguity, then at least what the Israeli government
is saying is that if they keep the policy of ambiguity,
other nations won't be champion at the bit as much
to get nuclear weapons.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
But doesn't it wouldn't it increase it though, because now
you're talking about secrecy. Now you're talking about secret stuff
happening in the dark rather than in the open. So
then everybody has to assume what's occurring, right, and often
we've found I think that countries' powers will assume that
the enemy is doing even worse stuff than they actually are,
(10:55):
out of a greater like to prepare for the worst, Right,
that's always the goal.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Right, hope for the best prepare for the worst. This
thing is is a very flimsy fig leaf, and I
think a lot of us can agree with that, especially
because here's how bad of a secret. This is, how
open this secret is. Despite this official stance, it is
incredibly common for individual politicians and military leaders across the planet,
(11:22):
including Israeli politicians and military leaders, talk very openly about
their nuclear capabilities, even though you know, and quickly add,
if they did exist, like, if they did exist, you know,
we could put them on German subs, which just happened,
by the way, we could put them in the air,
we could put them on land. It's silly, but it
(11:46):
does make a lot of sense. And then also, even
though they don't don't have nukes, they're one of the
countries that has consistently refused to sign the Treaty on
Non Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, very very fine line. Oh.
In another reason they won't confirm it, dude, is because
if they confirm it officially, that also means they would
(12:10):
have to confirm how they got the nuclear technology. And
that's a sticky wicket.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Well, I mean we can guess that it was the Americans, right,
I mean, the Americans created them. And then pretty cushy
hanging out together in ninety Wasn't nineteen forty eight the
time when Israel formed, isn't it? Or is it a
run around there? Yeah, so the timing works out pretty well.
(12:36):
Just just say.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
It's interesting and you're close, dude. It's a story the
Jedi won't tell you. Folks. Yes, Israel became independent in
nineteen forty eight after the Arab Israeli War established that independence.
The first prime minister, a guy named David Ben Gurion,
always wanted nuclear capability. He saw that as a crucial
(13:00):
step toward preventing another holocaust, another genocide, and they even
sent operatives out across the world, including to the United States,
to specifically recruit scientists. They vastly preferred Jewish scientists for
a nuclear program. They were doing this before nineteen forty eight.
(13:21):
But they also knew a lot of these folks who
were their supposed allies, their supposed Western allies. They didn't
want Israel to have a bomb. So it wasn't the
US that helped them in the beginning. It was France
Viva lat.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, I know, that's the story, man. I just feel
do you ever get the feeling that the official history
stuff is just kind of put there in the same
way to mislead people. And I know that doesn't mean
rethink all of history or any of those any of that,
and I don't mean I distrust all of history. I
feel like with something this this secretive still today in
(14:01):
twenty twenty six, it feels like maybe they would build
an entire cover story for this entire thing.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
I understand that instinct, and I definitely agree that history
is a conversation. But from what I've looked into the story,
as we know, it was not the official story for
quite some time as well, and parts of it have
never been verified by France or by Israel. So I
(14:29):
think this was the true conspiracy, and it's quite Yeah,
It's clear that factions of the US government or scientists
based in the US US Nationals definitely did want to help,
but Eisenhower did not, to be very clear, So if
there was assistance coming from the United States government in
(14:51):
some sort of subterfuge or skulled duggery, then it was
definitely not at the approval of the White House or
the larger military like and France was only doing this,
by the way, because these guys don't have altruism at
this level. France is doing this because they are already
the principal arm supplier for Israel, and Israel is playing
(15:13):
a huge role in France's intel operations as their colonial
control of North Africa starts to slip. So they're saying,
if you keep snitching for us, right, and you keep
buying our stuff, then maybe we can help each other
out a little bit. Like they even let scientists from
(15:35):
Israel's still hidden nuclear program roam around France's nuclear compound
and they get asked whatever questions. It was a redditt ama,
and they said, look if we can have because everybody's
still trying to figure out nukes at this point, right,
to make them better. So France's thinking was, as far
as we know that, if we can get the smartest
(15:57):
folks in Israel's nuclear program to hang out with us, right,
to just be lunch room buddies, then all of the access,
like all of the research they do, we will learn
and so maybe we can even start building better nukes
than the United States.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
Oh yeah, you can imagine that. But all of this
is under the guise of peaceful nuclear energy, right, That's
how it got spun to the US population immediately after
the bombs were dropped, like, here's the future energy source
that we can all use. We need these things all
over the place because eventually they'll be our main power source.
(16:36):
And then you can see, you know, the United States
had that whole program that we talked about several episodes ago,
where the US would export essentially nuclear energy technology, know how, blueprints,
all of that stuff. If you as a country said hey,
we are just gonna pursue the peaceful nuclear energy. We're
(16:56):
not gonna try and spin up a bunch of things, and.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Our ambassadors did a pinky swear. Guys, this is so serious.
It's all peaceful and so and you know, Matt, you
and I have talked about this for years now. The
issue is what makes that such I'll say it, what
makes it such utter bulks, is that the same process
(17:20):
of refinement that you use to make material for a
nuclear power plant is the pretty much the same process
used to make weapons. So imagine if the imagine if
you knew how to build a washing machine for clothing, right,
and you said, Okay, I know how to build a
(17:42):
washing machine, and it's going to make my country way better.
It's going to make my house way better. It just
so happens that the exact process for building a washing
machine is the process for building a bomb. And one
of them will wash one of them cleans you know,
you're under rus and the other one blows up the neighborhood.
(18:03):
So you just gotta.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Trust it's just lint en Richmond, that's all we're doing.
Just it's some extra lint enrichment to U two thirty
five lint.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Right right right, And sometimes you know, plutonium, it's just
another brand of detergents. You guys are tripping us.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Or it's got those scent crystals in it, you know,
just dump it in before it's fine.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
And then they're like, oh, okay, well can I look
at the washing machine? Absolutely not, yeah, yeah, don't go
in the basement where we keep the kid either. So this,
I mean, it gets messy and messy.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
It's his story a tip for tats quid pro quos.
And like you said, it's always advertised as peaceful nuclear research.
Check out the amazing videos of the amazing propaganda pieces
that the United States had on this for decades and
also so the US at the same time to our
(19:02):
earlier point about history. They're getting more and more mythed
that Israel will not let anybody see their nuclear facility.
And they're like, hey, guys, we got a bunch of spies.
They're just gonna say, we got we got we know
what's going on, Okay, we know what's in the basement.
And they said, well, you don't have to inspect this
because look, man, it's a textile factory. You already know
(19:27):
how rugs work. Yeah, you need our rug technology. And
then Britain conspired as well to supply nuclear material to Israel.
And then they also were like, mm whelo, chap, I
haven't heard a thing.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
God well, and everybody knows. Just going back to the
non Proliferation Treaty of it all, you said, Israel is
one of four countries of the nine that have never
joined in with any with the nuclear non proliferation treaty stuff.
(20:04):
Isn't it weird that there are nine countries that are
acknowledged to have these things and around half of them decided, hey,
it'd be a good idea to not make a bunch
more of these, to be careful to allow international inspectors
from the UN to come through that, you know, the
International Atomic Energy Agency is a good thing, and let's
all be above board. But there's still around half of
(20:27):
the countries that say, nah, we don't want anything to do.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
With that exactly. Yeah, it's a huge deal in nuclear
studies because it's the prisoner's dilemma in real life.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
It only works if everybody goes along, and if there's
even one dissenting party, much less several, then the whole
system is endangered. It's quite a fragile system, just like democracy.
You know, it's a democracy of nine countries, several of
(20:59):
which very much do not get along, right, so getting
them to agree on anything is kind of tough.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Democracy manifest from. I can't remember hearing it.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
I've remember heard it though, so okay. By nineteen sixty five,
this nation is capable of creating weapons grade plutonium, and
sometime around the Six Day War, shout out to the
USS liberty. They were able to launch full scale weapons production,
not deployment, but they were able to build the toys.
And at this point, the larger public of the world,
(21:34):
outside of the spoopy dupes and the experts that no
one believes, the larger public, including the public of the
nation of Israel, they don't know what's going on. They
don't know all the way up until the nineteen eighties
when an Israeli new technician with an awesome name Mordecai Vanunu.
(21:55):
I almost want to sound effect like when we like
an American dad. Did did you ever watch American Dad?
Speaker 3 (22:02):
I haven't seen that one.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Oh it's okay, there's a character. There's a character named
Ricky Spanish. We're not going to get into it. Shout
out to the twelve people who are laughing now. But
the Ricky Spanish character always comes with a sound cue,
so he's like Ricky Spanish and then a little bit
of Spanish guitar. So Bodekaiva New News sounds like it
(22:25):
needs a sound cue at the end, you.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Know, well it's this guy is just a dude doing
his job, but he's he's seeing what's happening, and he's
understanding it, and he's having a crisis because he's realizing that,
oh my god, like we're doing all this stuff. Nobody
knows what's happening here at this facility. So he gets
his camera out and he takes photographs of stuff that
(22:49):
shouldn't exist, at least officially.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Not in a textile factory.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
That's for sure, same factory we were talking about at
the very beginning of this.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
And that's where he's working. And he has, like you
were saying, tons of photographs. And despite these photographs being
widely published, first in British press and then around the world,
the government of Israel has still never once acknowledged these capabilities.
And that's why estimates even now in twenty twenty six
(23:21):
on their capabilities vary so widely. Like if you you know,
if you do a typical like Google or Wikipedias or
you'll see it's estimated that Israel has something between ninety
warheads or up to four hundred. That's a huge range,
especially for things that are this dangerous. But also that
(23:44):
is coming from expert research that is not just AI slop.
The rest of the world. I mean, probably a few
people know now, but the rest of the world for
most of the time had no idea how many Israel
actually possesses. And we still really don't, and you know,
(24:05):
it's hard to talk about it. Part of the reason
we have been so careful with this is because anti
Semitism gets caught up in the mix so very easily.
You know, a lot of racist. People are going, well, yes,
of course the nation of what other nation would lie?
And the answer is, folks, all of them, all of
the nations will lie to you whenever it benefits them.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Oh yeah, for sure. That's that's definitely one thing we
have discovered in all of our days, hours, minutes doing
this research. I do want to put this out there
just because it is. It's pretty easy to find if
you look up the Demona Research Center or the Negev
Nuclear Research Center. The full name if you want to
(24:51):
dive into the research is the Shimon Perez Negev Nuclear
Research Center. And you can see satellite footage of this
place from years and years and years ago up until
really recent satellite footage of the place, and that has
been reported on in recent news where they're looking at
(25:12):
new facilities. They call it this one thing that was
being built there earlier this year, the big black box.
Well that's what do you think that might be? Is
what the world press says. But just to put out
there that it exists. Right now, we are talking about
the history of this place and the research there and
all of the things and the reasons behind it. But
it exists, and you can look at it now right now,
(25:35):
if you want to mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
And what you'll see here is similar in other countries.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
You can find a lot of nuclear facilities or suspected
nuclear facilities in all these other nine countries we've mentioned.
And you can also troublingly find facilities and would be
nuclear powered countries or nuclear capable countries as well. This
is another thing. Several of these countries that we're discussing,
(26:04):
they have what they call a no first use policy.
And here's the heart of our conspiracy tonight, folks. Israel
is a little bit different. They have something called the
Samson option. Let's say we take a break for a
word from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy, all right,
(26:27):
no first use. Let's get this out of the way.
It's just what it sounds like. Everybody is essentially standing
at the great, the Great Tombstone Arizona gunfight that is
the modern world. And these nine guys have guns, and
a lot of them say, we're not going to be
the first guys to shoot because we see ourselves as
(26:50):
the good guys.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Well that's nice, love it, And theoretically nobody ever shoots
because nobody's ever going to be a First, here's the
problem talked about before. There's this thing called, well, a
couple of things. One of them is called terrorism, which
means theoretically, somebody could gain a hold get like get
a nuke and set it off, and now none of
(27:12):
the nine people holding the guns is the first one
to shoot. Somebody else found a gun and shot. Now
everybody can shoot, right, because everybody is able to and
they're allowed to with their first no first rule. The
other thing is the false flag potential there. Right, maybe
somebody lets a nuke out so that it can go off,
(27:33):
and now they get to use their nukes.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah, it's once you pop the seal. It's very easy
for that domino effect to occur because some countries have
a policy that says there will be repercussions up to
and including us launching nukes if somebody else does it,
because we, you know, because we're not just the good guys,
(27:56):
but like every country, we're the main character. It's it's
so it's similar to it's similar to something we brought
up before. There is a world of difference between Google's
old motto don't be evil and the other version be good.
So no first use is not the same thing as
saying we're never ever going to use this because we're
(28:17):
the good guys. It just means that they have agreed
that if any of the other eight countries, or even
a rogue actor with a dirty bomb or a maybe
one of those backpack nukes that we're working on for
a while, if another actor launches those, then it's Katie
bar the door. They are going to be heavy consequences.
(28:39):
You will get that smoke. The nation of Israel does
not have a first use policy. Instead, they have what
we unofficially call the Samson option, and that is massive retaliation.
We're talking about this a little bit off air. It
speaks to the history of the region. It speaks to
(28:59):
is regional and indeed international posture. They're saying, look, we
don't care of a threat to our country has nuclear ability.
If that, if any other country invades or these the
phrase destroys much of Israel, or if it's an existential threat,
(29:22):
we will use the nukes as a last resort. I
know I'm cursing a lot on this episode tonight, folks,
but it is scary stuff. Think of it like back
in our neighborhood comparison. Think of it as saying like
they know this is disproportionate response. They're saying, oh, you
want to break into my house, fine, oh burn down,
Oh goddamn neighborhood. Let's see who's crazier. You want to
(29:46):
see crazy? That's what it is.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Well, that's why it's called the Samson.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Anyone, break out your bibles, head on over to Judges
sixteen if you want to, you just start with thirteen
and learn the whole same since saga. But if you
go to sixteen, you'll learn Samson's whole story is about
just vengeance, kind of a little cycle of vengeance where
he's killing Philistines, sometimes hundreds of Philistines, sometimes thousands of Philistines.
(30:15):
Sometimes he is putting his hands on two pillars and
bringing an entire temple down on himself and all of
the Philistine leaders and soldiers, thousands of them that are there.
Because gum, like literally, that's like the situation. It's exactly
what you described, Ben. I will kill myself if it
(30:36):
means it kills you two.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah, right, you want to dance. That's wait, that's ah,
that's Michael Keaton in something.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
But it's genuinely a scary it's a scary set of
stories within the Bible, because it really does. I'm just
looking through it, reading about it, and there's so many
times where Samson just it says, the spirit of the
Lord comes upon him, and then he just murders a
(31:07):
ton of people. At one point he gets a donkey's
jawbone and kills a thousand men. Good God, just an angry,
angry dude with the spirit of the Lord. You know,
he just rages out and kills a bunch of people,
but he's venerated as some kind of hero. It's really
it's messed up, man. And you know what, we never
(31:29):
even learned the name of his mom throughout the entirety
of the Bible. We know his dad's name, but his
mom was just a woman who was considered a barren
and an angel came to her and said, hey, you're
gonna have a baby if you don't drink wine or
eat anything unclean, and your congratulations. You have like a
special boy. And he's gonna he's gonna have hair that
(31:49):
connects him to the Lord and makes him crazy powerful,
and he's gonna kill thousands of humans.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
It's crazy.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Sorry, I don't mean to speak down about the Bible.
It's just it's a wild story to base anything on.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Well, he's also and also he's a judge. We got
to put that care. That's why it's the Book of Judges, right,
That's why he's in that part. It is. It is wild,
and it definitely has that grand, almost theatrical gravitas that
is common in some of these conversations, you know, and
this is this is very scary, does match some of
(32:28):
the biblical lore of this Judge Samson, because we see
that most experts who have analyzed this, and experts with
secret clearance right with access to classified research, they say
that the Samson option, if deployed, would likely include deliberate
(32:48):
strikes against non military targets similar to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
This would hit cities that means schools, that means hospitals,
that means civilians. This is seen by everybody body else
has a clear violation of international humanitarian law. So, despite
you're hearing this right, folks, fellow conspiracy realist, despite not
(33:09):
having nuclear weapons wish wish air quotes, the Israeli military
and government have repeatedly reminded the Middle East and the
world overall that anybody looking for smoke is welcome to
fa fo on a nuclear level. And the rest of
the world doesn't really agree with this. They don't see
(33:31):
that as retaliation, they see that as a pre emptive
nuclear strike. We also got to shout out Seymour Hirsch,
who wrote a landmark book about this that popularize the
term the Samson option, Israel's nuclear arsenal and American foreign policy.
And it's all about how the US, which has a
close relationship a troubled relationship with Israel, has gone back
(33:55):
and forth on this on whether this is right, how
this works, versus their relationship with other friendly nuclear powers
like France or like the United Kingdom. And to be clear, folks,
to be clear, obviously we're talking about a country. We're
not talking about a people here, because the people of
(34:16):
Israel didn't get to vote on this. But to be
even more crystal clear, everybody hates this idea. Everybody in
the room thinks this is a terrible, terrible idea because
they know that if Israel were to bomb Ran with
a nowp tonight, then before dawn of the next day,
(34:39):
surrounding enemy nations would launch their own attacks in turn,
which could in turn retrigger the Sampson option, leading to
yet more nuclear attacks of course on military installations, of course,
but then also on heavily occupied civilian areas. So in
a very very very short period of time, the region
(35:00):
could crumble into smoking wasteland. This is a dark wind, dude.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Well yeah, well we've seen what some of the targets
are for multiple countries against other countries, right, and we
know it's military, it's infrastructure, and then it becomes population centers.
There's the that's the way the targets go. You destroy
(35:28):
communications and the ability for your enemy to like target
things and prevent missiles from coming in. You prevent them
from communicating with each other. You prevent them from being
able to launch other things, right, you prevent them from
being able to launch other military strikes, conventional military strikes.
Then you turn off the power and the water and
all these other things, and then you take out the
(35:49):
city centers so nobody can rebuild. And it is just
it's end of the world stuff. It's fallout stuff. It's
the freaking silo, it's all those things. It's just and
it's ready to go, and we keep humanity keeps putting
itself in these positions where we're in a tinder box
and ready ready for it to explode. And I don't know,
(36:11):
man it because right now we've got multiple fronts where
this could potentially set off. Right, the Middle East is
definitely one, but we're also looking at your Ukraine and
Russia right now, and how much forces are gathering there
that are not just Ukraine and Russia, and how many
nuclear weapons potentially are at play there. We're seeing it
happen in the South trynes See and Taiwan and all
(36:33):
these other things. Just the potential for something to go
bad with one thing, and the Samson option just I
don't know. I don't know if it's better or worse,
or it feels like it's worse. Just that whole you know,
come at us too hard and we're gonna nuke some
stuff that it just feels horrifying. Man.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah. And there's reason, folks that I'm mentioning dark wind
and the mats mentioning fallout because this domino effect, right,
this mad cap doomsday scenario for the Middle East, it
would inevitably affect other places that are not involved, just
(37:14):
because of regional weather systems. So countries that were not
directly involved, like Turkey would be a big one right
right there kind of in the area. They could find
their own citizens affected by radiation, so what would they do?
And then if any other nuclear power deploys their own
weapons against Israel because they have friends right who have
(37:38):
been attacked, then it has to theoretically pull a Samson
again and fire back. It's highly unlikely, let's say, virtually
impossible that the US or European allies whatever bomb Israel,
But China is an open question. And then we have
to ask about what you know, Pakistan or India or
North Korea?
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Well, Ben, do we really do we really think that
the tracking capabilities, the technologies that exist right now are
such that there is no way another country in that
region has nuclear capabilities and it's just either unknown or
(38:17):
somebody looked the other way, or they built an underground
facility like Iran did, and they built it a long
time ago and they've been refining materials, Like do we
really think we can prove or know for sure that
nobody else has nukes in the region.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
In terms of industrial capability like manufacturing capability, we're pretty
confident just because of the chain of resource control. But
in terms of like an individual thing maybe from the
fall of the Soviet Union, or maybe like a rogue
aq con type scientist, maybe somebody like the fall of
(38:53):
the Soviet Union is a big concern. But then you
know the idea that maybe and extreamist in an extremist
faction or cabal in Pakistan could conspire. There are possibilities
of individual things leaking out, But a great deal of
time and energy is spent not just tracking down the
(39:16):
chain of anything that could be used for manufacturing, but
also trying to keep a close account on the number
of nukes overall.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Well, yeah, and we know the human beings, Like it
requires human beings with no how and training or understanding
to be able to run facilities, right that might refine
plutonium or uranium or whatever. And we've seen that state
powers will murder those folks if they seem to pose
(39:45):
a threat. Right. I guess all of that stuff makes sense.
It just feels like there's so much money in a
place like Saudi Arabia that has a sovereign wealth fund
or you know, that's just one country. There are many
countries in the region that have fast resources of money
that could be used to pull an individual in or
you know, to build a facility or to dig down
(40:07):
and create something. I just I don't know it. The
confidence maybe that especially Western powers feel or have the
thing that you see like that. It's not necessarily bravado,
but it's a confidence like we know everything that's happening
at all times, that feeling that you get it. To
(40:29):
my mind, it feels as though that is a posture
more than a reality. But maybe I'm just completely off
base there, and I think it's I think it's important
to show that outwardly or to make people think that
more so than it is.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
And this this is uh, this is a good point.
This is why I'm drawing such a sharp distinction between
manufacturing capability and individual warheads. So finding manufactor xuring capability
is going to be a lot easier because they are
much There are many more opportunities to get a peek
(41:08):
into what's happening. Right, you have to build stuff, you
have to assemble stuff. You can't make it all on
your own domestically. That's why North Korea needed a q
CON and some help from China. But if we talk
about an individual warhead, then we're getting a lot closer
to something like a needle in a haystack. That's why
(41:29):
we talk about these extremist actors. You know, somebody's able
to get the one thing from you know, I'm not
trying to pick on Pakistan, but someone's trying to get
the one thing from the stands somewhere, a former Soviet
country or something, and they, perhaps because of their motivation,
are not a rational actor, right, So they're not concerned.
(41:51):
They don't give a tinker's damn about mutually short destruction.
They just want to blow stuff up. They don't care
about the consequences. That's one of the big ones. And
I love the foreshadowing about just real quick point. I
love the foreshadowing about the idea of posture versus practicality,
(42:13):
because supporters of this policy are saying that not having
Samson on the table is more dangerous than having it.
And they're also they're also going to say, some supporters
will say, we don't think Samson will ever be used.
(42:34):
Its advantage, its edge is entirely because it is a posture,
which I don't know if I entirely buy that, but
that's what that's what a lot of people will say.
And then more hawkish folks are going to say another
thing that I don't fully agree with that I think
is kind of propagandistic, more like military gung ho types
(42:57):
are going to say, I support this poul See because
if allies of Israel know that Samson is on the table,
they're going to be more likely to assist Israel in
a conflict, hoping to nip things in the butt before
Samson gets activated again. I don't know if that we
could count that as analysis or more like salesmanship and
(43:20):
wishful thinking. That's just my take. Again, I might be
off base.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
No, I hear you.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
I keep thinking.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
I keep thinking about the It was a country in Africa,
the yellow cake from Niger maybe, and the aluminum tubes
from or they got them in a different country. The
stuff that was heading towards a rock that was a
big deal was made out of Hey, we have to
go in there and stop them from enriching uranium. And
(43:53):
because they're trying to get the components you would need
from all these other places. I think it was Jordan
maybe where the aluminum tubes were. It makes me think
that somebody is some watchdog, is looking at these things
and they are paying attention. It does make me think
that I don't know, man, I'm just gonna choose right now.
(44:18):
I'm gonna choose to believe that we know everything that's
going on in our the spoopy doupe. So the absolute best,
the ones that are paying attention to this stuff, and
it's all gonna be.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Okay unless they get corrupted or out, or unless there's
or unless you know, you use a a Belgian mining
company as a front to get yellow cake of uranium
from from the Democratic Republic of Conggo, which definitely happened,
(44:48):
just like the British used a Norwegian proxy. Once you
get private industry in there, man, you can do a
lot of other fun Slight of hand magic tricks. Also
shout out to most death in uh, that old Dave
Chappelle sketch where he plays the president and they talk
about finding yellow cake and most steps he just has
(45:08):
he has yellow Angel's food cake and a napkin. It
was right up there with that with whomever. I think
they lied to Colon Powell too about the w MTS,
But it's right up there with that moment where someone's like, yeah,
aluminum tubes and that press conference look kind of silly.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
Those aluminum tubes. Again, like I I was pretty young.
I was like a high schooler when all that was happening,
and I never really saw the aluminum tubes they were
talking about, or you know, what they looked like or
how big they were. So I just imagine the aluminum tubes.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
I was aware of the Red Old's rap.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
Well, yeah, rails, rap were things you might find in
a bathroom. They are holding up the shower curtain like, oh,
that's an aluminum.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Tube that could build a nuke? Right now, what's in
this soap? So it's uh, it is that there's a
lot of back and forth and there are a lot
of postures and public presentations. To be honest, undiplomatically, there's
a lot of theater in this kind of stuff. And
you could say that some of it's necessary. You could
(46:16):
say that some of it just complicates the issue. But
to put it diplomatically, critics refuse to hear any of
the supporters arguments. They say, this is absolutely bonkers. The
potential for disaster outweighs the advantages any advantages of posturing.
But what would happen? What if it actually happened? We
(46:38):
have to be clear with you folks, first off, yes,
the nation of Israel can absolutely do this. They do
have the capability. The policy of ambiguity is a ridiculous thing.
But from their ideal perspective, they're saying, nobody really wants
to reach this point. Thank goodness, we know that nuclear
(47:01):
retaliation in their minds would remove the present threat, whatever
that may be. And additionally, it would set an example
of how anybody else thinking of an attack, because they
would be thinking, holy crap, these guys weren't joking. They
really will go Samson. And then they'll say okay. That
would also give us a window of time to repair
(47:22):
secure resources and civilians get assistance from our allies, and
those allies are probably also going to bring in troops
and munitions, humanitarian aid, etc. Will soldier on. But the
ideal scenario, no matter how smart people think they are,
man the ideal scenario seldom happens in real life. We'll
(47:43):
see a domino effect. We'll see other we'll see allies
of if it's another country that gets attacked, if it's
Iraan that gets newked, we will see whatever allies are
bound by pre existing agreements with Iran probably have to
jump in and retaliate. On some level themselves. And then
(48:04):
there's another thing with the dimension of proxies, right, and
then they get Samson, and then those countries have other allies,
or those proxies have other allies, or those terrorist groups
have other allies, and then they get Samson, and all
of a sudden, mad doesn't matter, right, because at each
step nations that have treaties with Israel are also getting
(48:27):
pulled in. It's got to think of like NATO and
Article five. You know what I mean, so ugly, so quickly.
I don't know, man, Do you want to take an
ad break and talk about the aftermath here? No?
Speaker 3 (48:42):
But I think we should.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
We're back, folks, and you can tell again how creeped
out we are by this. We hope you're creeped out
by it too. We are being really diplomatic when we
say the aftermath would be insane. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:06):
I keep thinking about Samson. Man in the story, the
woman that he loves betrays him by accepting an offer
of thousands of shekels in silver.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
From the Philistines.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Right, Yes, to figure out what Samson's weakness is, like,
how do we get the spirit of the Lord out
of him so we won't murder a bunch of us
when we try and capture him, and she tries over
and over and over to get him to tell her
what's going on, and then betray him, and he flwarts
her a bunch of times, and finally he tells her,
you just cut my hair, and they cut his hair.
(49:40):
They come in, they capture him, and the first thing
the Philistines do is the gouge's eyes out, And so,
like you're imagining again, we're talking about a cycle of
vengeance here, right, Samson gets vengeance on the Philistines. The
Philistines want to get vengeance on Samson for murdering thousands
of people. And then it just continues and continue. And
(50:01):
the more I think about this, the concept of bringing
the entire temple down on yourself, just despite all the
other folks that wronged you. At one point, it's so
I was gonna say selfish. I don't know, maybe that's
the wrong word for it.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
But it's a pyrrhic victory as well. It's a victory
that destroys the victory.
Speaker 3 (50:28):
Yes, And and how many people do you have to
take with it? The people like people? How many people
are in that temple to diagon or part of that
feast to dagon are actually a part of people that
cause Samson harm right, that he would enact an eye
for an eye vengeance on And then how many are
just there?
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Yeah, how many people, especially when we're talking about situations
like this, how many people living in various Middle Eastern
countries have been trying to leave? How many families have
been trying to get out already, you know, for years,
for decades, and they want no part of this conflict.
When elephants make war, its the grass that suffers in
(51:10):
the aftermath of this. Even in the most ideal scenario
of the Samson option, thousands, hundreds of thousands of people
would still die as as collateral damage, and the nation
of Israel would become a pariaused state on a global level,
another knock on effect that people might not think about
(51:32):
because it's so unpleasant. There are other innocent people would
never be affected by radiation because of where they live,
who will still get killed because of the Samson option,
particularly people of the Jewish faith or Jewish heritage in
the diaspora across the planet. A massive wave of hate crimes,
(51:53):
terrorist attacks, maybe persecution by their own governments that can happen. This,
This can still happen in twenty twenty six. People of
Jewish origin with no Israeli's citizenship, folks who have never
been to Israel or thought about it, never practiced Judaism
would still be targeted as representatives of a nation that
(52:15):
they've never known. And then also, oh my gosh, what
if you're one of the other eight nuclear powered countries
you see, Sampson, Remember we were talking about new first use.
You're going to start rethinking your own nuclear policy. You
are going to have that oh crap, it can happen moment,
and you might become more pacifistic, less warlike, but history
(52:41):
proves you're probably going to become more hardline. You're going
to take the safety off your gun, even if you
don't pull the trigger.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
I keep thinking about Gaza and the things we've seen
happening there exactly right as as vengeance, like acts of
vengeance against a group that has wronged someone right and
like absolutely done wrong and like it's horrible, right, one
horrible action after another. We see that. But then I'm
(53:11):
trying to imagine if there was another nuclear capable country
in the region, like in Iran, would there be a
pushback against the vengeance one way or the other. Right,
would there be a balancing of some sort or would
would it immediately turn into Samson option or you know,
I'm imagining it might actually be an okay thing if
(53:34):
there was a balancing force.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yeah, that's something that's something people stay up all night
thinking about and arguing about, right, and lose some of
their careers over at times because people aren't sure the
thing is. Nuclear weaponry is relatively new in the Great
Grand scheme of things. It's one of the most dangerous
(53:58):
things people have invented. Did very few countries have it,
which means that we have a dearth of sample sizes
we have, we have scant precedent for what would occur
other than post World War two and mad We know
that a bunch of countries would immediately Countries that have
capability to get this stuff would immediately redouble their efforts
(54:20):
to acquire the bob Just a few Republic of Koreas,
South Korea, Japan, definitely, Latin America, South Africa, definitely, Saudi Arabia.
To your point, this is one of the greatest conspiracies
in all the modern history.
Speaker 3 (54:35):
Absolutely, Sorry, Ben, I keep almost making a point, and
then I miss it. The biggest The biggest point is
it goes back to our discussion about how having a
nuclear arsenal makes other countries listen to you and at
least care that you have an opinion about something you
(54:57):
as a country are doing. So I do under and
that's all I mean by balancing force. I don't mean, hey,
now we've got more nukes pointed at each other. It's
just now we've actually we might actually have countries who
give a crap what the other one says and what
their opinion is of our actions, rather than hey, we
can we have secret nukes that we can just kind
(55:17):
of do what we want.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
Yeah, well, once the nukes are in the public, that
would that would potentially we're talking about balance. The reason
those countries will listen to each other is because of
mad Right. So if if other countries went nuclear gained
that capability, That's why I'm saying with like, definitely Saudi
Arabia for instance, right, or other very very wealthy, even
(55:40):
the geographically smaller countries in the region, would have a
do you have a stronger voice when you go nuclear? Right?
That that is that is one of those very scant
precedents we possess, but given the deep descent and historic
ConFlat in the region, we cannot assume that our other
(56:05):
precedents a balance of power would hold, because this would
be a new animal, and the fate of the world
is writing on it. Also, it may sound like we're
picking on certain countries here, folks, Again, we assure you
that we are talking only about governments and only about
technology here. We're not necessarily talking We're not trying to
(56:27):
put a personality read on any nation of millions of people.
And we also need you to know that the Samson
option itself is kind of unique, but it is far
from the only terrifying nuclear doctrine. The United States historically
has no problem bombing civilian populations with nukes. It happened twace.
(56:49):
We also we explored the true story of another very
scary thing, Russia's infamous dead Hand, which it's hard to
say that without doing a heavy metal voice.
Speaker 3 (57:04):
Yeah, that's a scary one. That sets off all of
the missiles to strike all of the targets simultaneously to
make sure your enemy can again, it's Samson like, to
make sure your enemy cannot win this conflict.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
Yeah, Bernie down the house. We also, I mean Soviet plan, right,
so we know that the Soviet Union dissolved. A lot
of the experts still think dead hand is active in
some capability. But because Russia is a kleptocracy now, it's
really a big question of how much of how many
(57:40):
of their warheads still work, you know, and how many
just fell to misuse and corruption. Oh yeah, because once
you build these things, there are such a pain in
the ass to maintain. It's like how you know, any
good gun owner knows that you need to train regularly
and you need to always clean the mechanism. Right, That's
(58:01):
like a nuclear warhead is that times a million, and
if something goes wrong you die of radiation, sickness and exposure.
So they're hard to they're hard to keep going. What's
another example. What's another thing that's hard to keep going?
Saltwater fish, an octopus in an aquarium.
Speaker 3 (58:19):
Drums man drums. It's hard to keep them things tuned correctly,
especially if you're using them.
Speaker 2 (58:24):
But also if you just leave them humidity.
Speaker 3 (58:27):
Maybe yeah, yeah, if you just leave alone for a
long time, though sound terrible, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
I think those are great examples. The octopus in the aquarium,
the drums in the basement. Oh gosh, kids in the basement.
It's it's crazy, because you know, there are there are
other flash points. One that we mentioned a while ago
that we didn't talked about here, just so you know.
(58:54):
We mentioned South China see East Asian sphere. We mentioned
Ukraine and Russia obviously the Middle East. Also Pakistan, India
and China, who are so ready to rock and roll,
like scary scary ready to rock and roll. What better
time for what better time for a possible Chinese invasion
(59:17):
of Taiwan or a Pakistan India conflict than when the
entirety of the rest of the world is distracted in
the Middle East. So this thing could, with the best
of intentions, this Samson option could have, could create other
conflicts a world away just because of the chaos. Yeah, we're.
Speaker 3 (59:44):
Keep getting this underlying feeling been that something really bad
is going to happen here stateside before the election this year.
Speaker 2 (59:53):
Yeah, for the midterms.
Speaker 3 (59:55):
Yeah, And I'm trying very hard not to do too
much tea reading, you know, and putting my own spin
and bias on news stories that come out. But I
swear man, I don't want to say some of the
things I'm thinking out loud because it's weird, because it
does make you feel when you're paying enough attention, it
(01:00:16):
makes you feel like you can kind of almost see
the future in a little bit, like in a small way.
Do you ever get that ben where you're just reading
some of the geopolitical things that are happening, and then
you're just kind of going, Oh, somebody's preparing for X
or X is going to match up really well with
what why is doing over there?
Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Uh oh, I'll say it. I will not be surprised
if a false flag event occurs prior to the midterms,
either on domestic soil or on an international sphere. I
will definitely not be surprised if the current US regime
attempts to invalidate the midterms. And I think democracy has
(01:00:55):
ever been a fragile experiment. The United States is at
Jenga tower right now, and we're halfway through the game,
right so every block that gets pulled, and every time
it's someone else's turn, we get a little closer to collapse.
Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
It keeps feeling to me like the group in charge
right now is preparing to change leaders.
Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Right. Yes, agreed, that's a good way to put it,
and that is diplomatic. And in addition, that the global
order is changing. America was once the United States was
once the pre eminent superpower of the post World War
two planet for better or worse. But now well, Uncle
Sam is flagging, you know. It's got a dry cough,
(01:01:39):
can't run as faster as long as he used to.
He's running out of his toys. It's a diletent but
not quite official war on Iran in partnership with Israel
in Saudi Arabia. It's draining resources even now the US,
even as the US population is suffering financial hardship from corruption, inflation,
Kleptocras see a sharp decline in education, which happened way
(01:02:03):
I don't know about you, guys. That happened way faster
than I thought it would. NATO is in endangered, the
UN is like the League of Nations, for Pete's sake,
it's find itself more and more toothless. You don't see
much about all of this combined in your local news
shows or your local YouTube channel check out stuff they
don't want YouTube, No, But I'm right there with you
(01:02:25):
because I'm seeing things where it sound it feels not
even conspiratorial, but it feels increasingly implausible to ignore what
appear to be stronger and stronger correlations and connections. So
maybe we're both bubbled, you know. And hey, if you're
(01:02:46):
there with us, welcome to the bubble. Thanks for hanging out,
dip in.
Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
What what a filthy bubble to be in? This is?
This thing is gross.
Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
Bring more coffee, by the way, yes, bring more coffee.
Freak a monster fort coffee for me and to you
for Dylan. The world as we know it is, Yeah,
it's always been teetering on the edge lapse, though the
good guys are more than capable of rationalizing very bad actions.
(01:03:18):
This is the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
I don't know how do we stop the cycle of vengeance?
Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
Like?
Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
How do you? How do you? Is the only way
to stop a cycle of vengeance? One one side of
a conflict just decides Okay, that's enough.
Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
Do you mean in international affairs or just in general?
Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
I mean in general? I mean you could just take
two people right that are continually doing each other wrong
and then declaring vengeance, you know, for the previous action.
It just goes on and on and on and on.
It is like, I don't know if there's a philosophical
answer to that and an actionable answer to something like that,
or if it really is somebody has to give give
in in a way and say we're finished here, there's
(01:03:57):
no more of that.
Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Well, it usually in that field, you know, reconciliation. Reconciliation
in the Balkans is a good example in international affairs
and on a peer to peer level or a person
person level microcosm, both parties have to be have to
(01:04:21):
be self aware enough without being self centered, to admit,
to admit brongs and to give space to the other person.
So oftentimes when you feel like you're arguing with another person,
you know, you don't see yourself as a bad guy,
they don't see themselves as the bad guy, but they
will not accept you as being a good guy. Or
(01:04:44):
then you know, now we're getting into personality stuff because
they won't accept that you also, I don't want to
use this phrase here because of the subject matter, but
that you have a right to exist, and that's something
that is really difficult for people and for nations, and
(01:05:07):
this leads us to this leads us to a bright
side though as well, because you know, the cynic will argue,
or the nihilists will argue, or the AI program in
some cases will argue that the ultimate way to end
human conflict is to remove the problem of humanity.
Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
A lot of sci fi is about that. I don't
think we're there yet. Good news, right, because we all
have stuff to do later this week, so the week
will continue. I think the US will solderraw on or
I hope and we want. I don't know, Matt. I
can't wait to hear from people around the world about this.
From our fellow conspiracy realist. There's so many ways to
(01:05:50):
contact us, folks. Thank you as always for tuning in,
whether it was on Netflix or your podcast platform and choice.
Please stay safe out there, Please give us your thoughts
so we'd love to hear from you. You can find
us on the lines conspiracy stuff, conspiracy stuff, show any
derivation thereof. And we also have a phone number.
Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
Yes we do. You can leave a voicemail right now
if you want to call one eight three three std WYTK.
Just turn those letters into numbers and give it a call.
You got three minutes, say whatever you'd like. Give yourself
a cool nickname so we know if you call back,
and we can refer to you in one of our
listener mail episodes if we do put it in there.
(01:06:27):
It's on the audio feeds, not on Netflix if you
are on Netflix, but you'll find it wherever you get
your favorite podcasts. And hey, if you want to send
us an email, it's probably the easiest way to contact us.
Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
We are the entities that redeach piece of correspondence we receive.
Be well aware, yet done afraid. Sometimes the void rights back.
Give us a random fact. We'll give you a random fact,
Give yourself a cool nickname, or ask us to give
you what we love. Adding those in send us the
links take us to the edge of the rabbit hole.
We will do the rest conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 3 (01:07:17):
Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
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Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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