October 1, 2026 • 59 mins
Jake asks for more details about the legendary Polybius game. Vengeance Rising inspires conversation about the real-life Illuminati. Willow walks through several long-standing conspiracies, from the death of Marilyn Monroe to the Epstein Files. Join Ben, Matt, and Noel for all this and more in this week's listener mail segment.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
A production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Hello and welcome back to the show again. My name
is Matt.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
My name is Noel.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
They call me Ben. We're joined, as always, with our
super producer, Dylan, the Tennessee pal, Fagan. Most importantly, you
are you.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
You are here.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
That makes this the Stuff They Don't Want You To Know.
It's our inaugural episode. Listener Mail Edition on Netflix, guys.
And if you are tuning in to our Listener Mail
program the evening it publishes, welcome, one and all, to October.
That's true. It's October 1st, 2026, you guys. We're in
(01:03):
spooky season.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
Awesome.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
High of 76. Low of 71. Pinch me. Oh, my God.
It's the best. Sorry. God, it's been hot this summer.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Oh, yes.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Brutal.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
On multiple levels.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Metaphorical levels, literal levels.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
You mean like the U.S. is as hot as it's
ever been? We're on a hot streak?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah. Greenland's hot, depending upon whom you ask. And we
have asked you in our continuing mission, folks, fellow conspiracy realists,
to give us your takes, your ideas on episodes in
the past or your Ideas for episodes in the future.
(01:45):
And boy, howdy, have you responded. Guys, is it fair
to say that we're all three gamers?
Speaker 4 (01:51):
I think so. I think fair. Well, you know, varying
weather conditions, fair weather.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I wish you could see more of this room than
this camera can take in right now, because right around
the corner there, there are some framed cameras. Old school
video games, such as the original Alone in the Dark
that came on multiple floppy disks.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Was that like one of those live motion video games? No. No,
it was later than that.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
This is polygons, baby. Scary, scary polygons.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Were you talking about vectors, you mean?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah. Do you guys remember Commander Keen?
Speaker 4 (02:30):
I didn't remember Commander Keen, but I remember growing up,
I had a couple of more wealthy friends, parents were doctors,
and they had early PC games even before home consoles
were much of a thing.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Like Sierra, maybe?
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Sierra, Myst, I remember very distinctly. King's Quest, I remember
very distinctly. Yeah, that's from Sierra.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I loved King's Quest. I'm bringing up Commander Keen because
you can play it now for free, folks.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
I thought you were saying King's Quest because I remember that.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
King's Quest is what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
That's the one from Sierra.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
It was a sword and sorcery kind of King Arthurian game.
And you had a little pile of floppy disk.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Oh, you're saying Keen's.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
There was Commander Keen and then there was King's Quest.
Although King's Quest could have been a subtitle for Commander
Keen if we're being real about it.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I can't wait for the remake. We also, we received
a letter that sent us back into the past of
this show and Noel on our sister podcast, ridiculous history.
Not too, too long ago, we mentioned that video game NARC.
You brought that up.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Well, it was because, I mean, look, props to the
Trump administration for making the Sega logo, but having it
be MAGA. I mean, that's funny. You know, they got jokes.
I don't know who they outsourced all that to, but
that conversation came up in terms of like, MAGA propaganda
old school looking video games. I don't know exactly how
(04:04):
you play them. They must be web based or something.
I certainly didn't bother actually playing them. But the MAGA
in the style of Sega logo is peak. I got
to give them a chef's kiss on that one.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Does it say... MAGA.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Well, Matt, it would be more of a downward inflection.
It would be MAGA, but it'd be a minor key.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
It would be like, whoa.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Peep slop to me. You're right. You know, that's a
really good point, Dylan. I guarantee what we were seeing
was largely somebody feeding a chat bot prompt.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Dylan, you've got the controller. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 6 (04:44):
Yeah, I keep a Sega Saturn controller next to my desk.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
He's got that thing on him. And folks, speaking of
video games, we've got some deep water to get into,
courtesy of one of our fellow conspiracy realists, right after
this break.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
And we're back. Ben, I'm so sorry. I buried the lead.
You were mentioning NARC. And the reason I brought it
up was because NARC was sort of a borderline propagandistic
video game of our youth that you would find in
your local skating rink where you were like a dude
just murdering drug dealers, just like going around absolutely blasting
(05:26):
and eviscerating drug dealers of varying degrees and varying types.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Kind of like how Call of Duty was very topically
sensitive to who the bad guy should be.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Well, as were movies, you know, in the 90s, the
bad guys were always like Eastern Europeans. And then it
wasn't until the 2000s they became, of course, of Arabic descent.
But I bring that up because video games are such
an interesting thing. I mean, do you remember the first
time you guys saw Mortal Kombat? fighting game cabinet and
(05:57):
just seeing that fatality and like the, the, the spinal
cord hanging from the, you know, the head. I just
thought that was shocking. I just remember finding that to
be like dangerous feeling and like, I want to know
what that is. So it makes perfect sense that parents
were freaked out about video games because they were trying
to play into some of the darkest instincts of like children,
(06:18):
not to mention the dopamine casino of it all, literally
feeding quarters into the machine. And that really is kind
of part and parcel of this urban legend that our
listener wrote into us about. That is a blast from
the past of stuff they don't want you to know,
but I thought it would be a fun thing to
just kind of renew a little chat about real quick.
(06:38):
So this comes to us from, I think I'm going
to call him Jake. I didn't really give us permission
to use his full name and didn't give himself a nickname.
So I'm just going to, I'm going to impart a
very presumptuous nickname to you, Jake.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
What's the nickname?
Speaker 4 (06:52):
It's Jake.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
That's the nickname.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
There we go.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
The really creative nickname that I've come up with. Um, Hey, hi.
He says, Jake says, uh, and Jake, I'm not even
gonna tell him where he's from. It doesn't matter. Irrelevant
to the topic today. Just tells us that we need
to look into Polybius. It was an arcade game that
was highly addicting and men in black suits came in
to collect data. Um, Jake, we're exercising our critical thinking
(07:19):
approach to conspiracy realism here, and I do love that
you said all this is fact, and I think that's
one way of going about it, but we're going to
dig down a little deeper and see what's what. This
seems exactly like the stuff they don't want you to know,
and you're not wrong, Jake, because, surprise, surprise, the previous
or the original incarnation of this program on a video
(07:44):
internet-based platform platform. You guys did this. You guys discussed
this in a video, I believe, called Polybius Factor Fiction,
something along those lines. Am I right, guys?
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Yes, long, long ago.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Do we set up this conversation with a little clippy?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yeah, let's do it. Jake, this is going to take
you back to at least 12 years ago. We'll play
a brief clip from our original video, Polybius, the Facts
and Fiction.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
And it goes on.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Well, look at those graphics, baby. Oh, I put some
text on top of that thing.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
That's all you, man.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
That's funny that you mentioned that, Matt, because speaking of
dated graphics.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Wait, wait, wait. Dated graphics. But let's just say that
came out November 13th, 2013. So, come on. Hey, I
was working.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
It looks amazing. I'm not being a pill. I just
mean that intro, like a lot of shows... You made
that like probably five years prior to that.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Even, right?
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Or when did you guys start putting out videos? Like 2007?
This was still brand new car smell for us.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I remember researching this one and it was, Matt, you'll recall,
it was shortly after we figured out. that our bosses
would not actually fire us for making a conspiracy show.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
And you mentioned that, and I'm so glad that they didn't,
because here we are. Matt, I'm not ragging on your graphics, dude.
It's so funny how technology has increased such that, like,
you were probably doing that on Final Cut Pro using, like,
stock fonts and, like, you know, and it looks awesome.
It looks really, really good. But it is so interesting
how the exponential, you know, march of technology is makes
(09:39):
things that at the time were cutting edge, it's really
easy to see, oh, I know exactly, especially if you're
folks like us that are in this world, what they used,
what the font was, the resolution, the framing, or the,
what do you call it, the ratio, the aspect ratio?
I know that that's kind of what you were getting at. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
No, I was being silly and self-deprecating.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
It's fine.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
It works for what it is in 2013. I thought.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It looked really good, Matt. And also, you know, we
had to, at this point, Jake, We had to cram
a lot of information into a relatively short time window.
If you want the full transcript, happy to send it
to you. But for now, Noel, I think as you're saying,
video games have become more and more of an acknowledged media, right?
(10:25):
It's like literature at some point. And shout out to
Control Resident, which is coming out very soon.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Is it this week? Isn't it like this week?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, September 26th.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Today's the 23rd. That's dope. You know what's funny about that?
When the reviews have been kind of divisive. Some people
are saying game of the year. Some people, there's some
aspects of the mechanics they don't like. I love the
first one. I'm really excited to play the second one,
as I know you are. And Matt, I was really
only using the whole intro graphics discussion to frame the
conversation around the exponential change in technology and when something
(11:02):
is new. it can seem incredibly like, you know, oh
my God, this might as well be magic. And then
when you look back on it, like I just remember
growing up playing, you know, console video games that you
could rent time at this golf, this mini golf course
and seeing like TurboGrafx-16 and how at the time in
my little child brain, it looked like it was made
(11:23):
of magic. Like it looked like I was playing a
cartoon and I went and downloaded some ROMs of like
Bonk's Adventure and it looks like... The way your brain
remembers that stuff and the way just not knowing what
is to come can make you think that something is
absolutely the height of graphics or technology or whatever it is.
(11:45):
And that is where this whole urban legend around this
game Polybius really starts because video games– of any kind
of like color and multiple layers and using, you know, sprites,
which are little elements that allowed you to, you know,
do textures was really new. I mean, the earliest ones
that we've talked about were like pong, where you have
a pixel that bounces from one side of the screen
(12:06):
to another. So it makes sense that when you filter
these games in this increasing tech, this increasingly, uh, you know, um,
complex technology and presentation through, the conspiracy lens of other
stuff that was starting to trickle out, like MKUltra and
other sort of mind control experiments that the CIA maybe
(12:26):
got up to, the fact that these types of conversations
were becoming so widespread, it makes a lot of sense.
And the conversations that we're talking about is around a
particular game that may have existed specifically in Portland, Oregon.
It's always interesting when a specific location is tied together.
to something like this. According to the story, the cabinet
(12:48):
caused some sort of flashes or patterns. It used, I
think you used the term vectors, or you maybe said polygons, guys,
which is another way of describing vector images, shapes that
kind of shift around. So through those patterns and kind
of hypnotic effects, supposedly intense effects were caused. Nightmarish, waking,
(13:11):
you know, sleep demon kind of things, amnesia, even physical illness.
And then there's this discussion around this idea that folks
in black suits would come collect data, service the machines, whatever.
And then of course, as quickly as it appeared, it
vanished without a trace.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
And you're spot on with the legendary Noel about the
idea of getting headaches, nausea, lasting psychological damage. Polybius is
named for a Greek historian, so it's a puzzle game.
It's a maze game. That's how it gets into your head.
The weird thing is, when we originally looked into this, Jake,
(13:55):
we found people like Stephen Rote. Stephen Rote claims to
have intimate knowledge of the game, but the issue is,
when I was really diving in, those claims didn't stand
up to scrutiny. It's actually very difficult to to verify
this story because now, with what you're saying earlier about
(14:16):
the breathtaking pace of technological innovation, now it's super easy
to make a Polybius.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Game, right? Somebody did.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
And just say it's from the 80s, and that's exactly
what happened.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Yeah, this guy Jeff Minter in 2017 made a game
that was an homage. Not necessarily considered like a full
reconstruction because this is a thing that didn't, you know, exist,
but he made a game based on or as an
homage to the urban legends. There are some other interesting connections,
like there's a company name that gets thrown around a
(14:50):
lot that you guys may have discussed in that video,
which is a German word, Sineslochen, which is roughly translated
to sense deletion, like the deletion of your faculties or
your senses. There is a theory that this is also
kind of a Mandela effect situation, that this may have
been mistaken or through that game of telephone for A
(15:14):
game that maybe isn't as popular or didn't stand the
test of time as much as like, you know, Galaga
or Centipede. A game called Tempest that was released around
the same year as these occurrences purportedly took place. There's
a really good piece on Medium by Anthony Dennis called
Killer in the Arcade, The Legend of Polybius, where he
(15:36):
talks about that potential Mandela effect that people might have,
you know, looked at this game Tempest. and connected it
in their mind, you know, with the fallibility of memory,
not to mention pairing it up with some of these
stories where you kind of combine MKUltra type experiments with
the suggestive nature of video games. You're just starting to
see the moral panic around video games and parents worrying
(15:58):
that it's going to you know, affect infect their children's
minds and cause some kind of addiction or, you know,
developmental issues or whatever it might be. But Ben, there
were some other interesting grains of truth to the story
as well.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah, absolutely. We've got to give a tip of the
cap to Brian Dunning, who wrote about this a little
bit over on his outfit Skeptoid. We do know that
we can prove at least two people became ill playing
video games in Portland, Oregon in 1981. So they were
(16:36):
also knocked out the same day at the same arcade.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Right?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
And for everybody younger in the crowd, arcades were a
thing where you could go and play video games in
a public sphere. So we also know, additionally, the US government,
just like while we're mentioning NARC, the US government has
approached video game makers. They even contacted Atari for a
(17:01):
custom version of a game called Battlezone. So we see
the grains of truth that can kind of coagulates, maybe
not the best word, but they can Voltron up into
these sorts of modern American myths. Folks, we're going to
pause here, or will we, for a kind of Schrodinger's
sponsor break.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
I'm going to jump and then hope we'll see if
I'm back on the ground by the time it happens.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
Ready?
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Was there an ad? Was there an ad?
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Oh God, you're okay. He's okay. He's okay.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Guys, I keep thinking about the game Tempest. Do you
guys remember that one at all?
Speaker 4 (17:41):
No, that's what I was saying. I have no recollection
of it and it certainly didn't penetrate the zeitgeist the way,
you know, Dig Dug even did. But like, no, that
is not something that I remember at all, Matt. Tell
us about it.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
It's the kind of game that you would find at
an arcade that still had a bunch of old arcade
games in it. So like early on when I was
going to arcades as a kid, Tempest is one of
those that is mind-blowing in the way you were discussing
seeing something new that you didn't know these graphics could do,
where you're looking, if you're looking at the screen, you're
(18:16):
looking down on this shape that has a perimeter to it,
and the perimeter is broken up into little pieces, and
you play an entity, a ship, a thing that exists
on the outside of this shape that moves around and
shoots at objects that are coming from the distance. It
looks like the far distance up the side of this
(18:37):
object along the perimeter.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
It's like a tube shooter, they call it.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
I didn't know that's what they called it.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Is it giving a sense of perspective where the lines
are sort of broadening and narrowing? There's a Star Wars
space shooter game that uses that kind of vector-y stuff
that has very effective.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Yeah, well, and as you were playing this game, again,
when graphics aren't that great, but they're a little better
than this at this point, it was still mind-blowing to
see those graphics move towards you. That's right.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
That's what I'm describing.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
It's like the Polybius polybius thing that it's like, oh,
my God, what is happening?
Speaker 4 (19:11):
What was that Black Mirror feature length? Choose your own
adventure movie.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Bandersnatch. Bandersnatch. Yes.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
Bandersnatch. That was about a game and about like, you know,
seems to have taken in a lot of this lore
and turned, you know, about a dangerous video game. Um,
as well as there was another episode, uh, it wasn't
about a video game as much. It was kind of
about a video game. It was about like a sort
of like the Sims kind of game with these little creatures.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
A thing that's definitely not Star Trek for legal purposes.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Well, that was that it was that season, but it
was one where it was like this, world of little
widget guys that you could, and they've ultimately, spoiler alert,
kind of took over the world. Oh, I remember that.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, that was a great one.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Very good one.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
That story is directly connected to Bandersnatch because the same
guy that- The same developer.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Will Poulter, right?
Speaker 5 (20:02):
Spoilers.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Spoilers.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Well, I say that because I think those are very
much taking cues, especially with their 80s setting from this
type of urban legend. Berserk, guys, I do not know,
but I will say this. Sadly, it does seem like
brick-and-mortar arcades are becoming a little harder to come by,
but if you're lucky enough to live in the Los
Angeles area, I think we've all gotten to go here together.
(20:26):
There's a really dope arcade called Button Mash that has
all of these types of vintage games. They have the three...
CRT TV X-Men side-scroller. They've got the one where you
can play... I think five people can play it at
the same time. They've got that Star Wars Starfighter game
that I was telling you about that uses some of these.
They've got Dragon Slayer, which was another live-action... Not live-action,
(20:48):
but it was the Bluth company that did the animation.
You basically controlled the way a cartoon would progress.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Dragon Slayer is such a tough game.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
It's ridiculous. I've never made it past the very first moment.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
You have to hit the buttons... at the exact correct
time in the animation.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
They made it too hard, and I think that was
a big problem. That was a big reason why more
games like that didn't, you know. That is a game
that is discussed more in terms of its anomalous kind
of nature, and also how frickin' hard and obnoxiously, you know,
punishing it was.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
And just like every other game we've mentioned so far,
except for Polybus, those games are real.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Those games are real.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Yeah, the takeaway, I think, from this one is.
It's, it's a prime example of very early. I mean, let's, let's,
let's be real about it. This is like early internet
kind of creepy pasta type stuff. It was like pre internet,
internet lore in a way. Um, it also, I don't
think we mentioned this, but there were a lot of
FBI raids on arcades. Um, a lot of that had
(21:49):
to do with more like cracking down on what they
perceived as gambling, um, shutting down, you know, perhaps pinball
houses that were giving cash. I'm not exactly a hundred
percent sure as to why they were doing that, but
I don't think it had anything to do with, uh,
shadowy mind control experiments. And that company, the German company,
(22:09):
definitely did not exist.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I do love the phrase pinball houses.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I love to hear it. It's like a transatlantic accent.
We're busting down this pinball house.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Juke joints. Matt, what do you got?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
I want to talk about one more arcade game that
I want to see if you guys ever played. And
it's been really hard for me to get information on it.
I have direct recollection of it. And it's the same game.
notion that holy crap what am i even playing right
now what is this it was a game that was
in arcades a long time ago and it utilized holograms
(22:46):
so it had like a dome on on it and
then images looked like they were like inside the center
of this thing and it's playing with the way your
eye works with the dome.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Probably mirrors of something like a pepper's ghost type effect
almost I think it.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Was from Sega, and I think it was like Time
Traveler or something like that. I can't remember. It was
incredible at the arcade because you are manipulating holograms that
you're looking at. But all it is is a video,
like a 2D video game just being essentially projected into
that space for your eye. Guys, can we bring that back, please?
Speaker 5 (23:23):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
I want that.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
It is coming up as Sega's lost hologram game. It's
called Time Traveler.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
1991.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
It is called that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
And I remember it existing as well, or something along
what you're describing as ringing a bell, but I also
remember it seemed like it was always on the fritz.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Oh, well, that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
It must have been hard to service, maybe, or there
was some issue. But yeah, Time Traveler, or Hologram Time Traveler,
it is a Laserdisc game.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Whoa.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Designed by Dragon's Lair creator, Rick Dyer, and released in...
So these folks were trying to push the envelope, and
they might have pushed it a little A little farther
than the public was willing to go. So sick. Well,
I think this is it for me, guys. Thank you
so much, Jake. We're going to leave it at that.
I had two other ones that were fun. This was perfect.
So we'll take a quick break, hear a word from
(24:14):
our sponsor, and then we'll be back with more.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And we've returned. We're jumping to the phone lines.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Now, everybody.
Speaker 6 (24:26):
You ready?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah. We're going to hear a quick one, guys, from
a person with a pretty ominous nickname. Let's just jump
to it.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Vengeance Rising. You guys ever do anything on the Illuminati?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Didn't say anything else after that. Just hung up the phone. Oh, yeah.
Do we ever do anything on the Illuminati? Well, we
have to.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
Take you back. Everything we do is on the Illuminati,
one could argue.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Ah, it's the nature of that term. What is it
really referring to? What is the Illuminati, right? It goes
back to our old, old videos on the Bavarian Illuminati
and the origins of all that stuff. But, guys, and
Vengeance Rising, that's a scary nickname, we are happy to
report that you will be able to find, depending on
(25:20):
when this publishes, so you might be able to find
it right now, on September 30th and October 2nd, a
two-part series on the Bilderberg Group that we recently recorded.
And oh my goodness, it's kind of like the Illuminati.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
They're Illuminati adjacent. Do you guys know anything about the
Christmas Adventurers Club? We should do something about them.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Wait, that rings a bell, but I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
It's from one battle after another. I recently rewatched that.
But they are basically lampooning the idea of the Illuminati.
The Illuminati, as far as I'm concerned, or the way
my brain gloms onto that term, it just kind of
refers to the highest echelon of these various secret societies.
And I think it's more of a MacGuffin than anything, right?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Well, it's interesting, Vengeance Rising. If you go back to 2013,
you'll find not just our videos, but an audio episode
we did about the fact and fiction surrounding the real-life
Illuminati versus the more mythologized version, right, of a, like
(26:29):
Noel said, a shadowy cabal at the tippity-top of society.
Look up a guy named Adam Weishaupt, or Adam Weishaupt,
if you prefer. The Illuminati, or some version of it,
was definitely real, formed in Bavaria, and they definitely had
some big ideas, but guys, it always reminds me of
(26:52):
the old tropes about any kind of somewhat exclusive society,
like the Freemasons or the Shriners are these Are these
a supper club for people who just want to network
or are they secretly running the world and making chemtrails
(27:12):
and depopulating the planet?
Speaker 4 (27:14):
And one would argue if there were an org chart
of secret societies, the Illuminati would be like the top
of the pyramid and all the other ones would be
like sort of subsidiaries, I guess. Ben, I'm asking you
because you're kind of the you're the literati among the
three of us. Are you familiar and have you read
the Illuminatus trilogy by Robert Anton Wilson?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
And by his other pal, also named Robert.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yes, the Illuminatus Trilogy. I've got a copy here, too.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
I'm thinking about messing with it. It's great. It looks
very Hitchhiker's Guide. Is it meant to be kind of funny,
or is it sort of like satirical sci-fi? There's dolphins
on the cover.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I would call it gonzo sci-fi literature.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
That sounds fun. That sounds great.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Essentially, these two authors kept trying to wrapped together, kind of,
and they were one-upping each other with every subsequent chapter.
And they built a great conspiracy. Not everything aged well,
but it is more than worth your time to give
it a read if you want a cool adventure and
(28:18):
if you're stuck on long plane flights.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Is it three books? There's The Eye of the Pyramid,
The Golden Apple, and Leviathan. Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Hail Discordia.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
And then it appears that Anton Wilson, who's an interesting
cat unto himself, right? Wasn't he sort of a psychonaut?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
What was his deal? Yeah. Again, the word I keep
going back to is gonzo.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Got it.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
This was a very wild time for literature. Gosh, you know,
now that you're saying that, guys, Vengeance Rising riddle is this.
Why has there not been a film adaptation of the
Illuminati's trilogy? I mean, it's right there.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
And it looks like there's a third or an additional
book that came out later that's only by Robert Anton
Wilson called Masks of the Illuminati. That also has a
dope cover with like a sea serpent swimming in a book,
an open book with Albert Einstein's face in the clouds
in the background.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Reminds me of the book in Snake, you guys. Makes
me think about PC's. animated as a character on a
television ad. Anyway, let's jump, guys.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Hold on, really quickly, though. Can I just show something?
I'm sorry, my kid is here. Have you guys ever
seen the movie Existence? It's a David Cronenberg movie.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
My kid made this gun, bespoke this gun that looks
like the skeleton chicken bone gun that... what's his name,
Jude Law pulls out of his guts in that movie.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
That's all I'm going to say.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
Just phenomenal.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
That's all I'm going to say.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Is that a ghost gun, Noel?
Speaker 4 (29:48):
It's a Nerf gun that has been bedazzled.
Speaker 6 (29:53):
Guys, I just feel like in full, you know, Transparency.
I've told you all this, but for our listeners, I
did get an invitation to join the Illuminati Society a
couple months ago.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Just you?
Speaker 6 (30:05):
It said Illuminati recruiter was who it was from. And
it said, dear sir, madam, we are reaching out on
behalf of the Illuminati Society. So didn't respond. Thought it
might be a trap.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
I would definitely. Also, I'm just mad that– why not me?
Come on. I'm cool.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Oh, Dylan's going to have plus ones.
Speaker 6 (30:23):
Also, check your junk email.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
It might be there too. Everybody check your junk email.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
That's fair. You guys remember the rapper Illuminati Hottie? Wasn't
that a rapper? Or is that a– did I make
that up? That's a band.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
And they're a good band.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
I don't remember the rapper.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Well, it should be a rapper.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Well, thank you, Vengeance Rising. And also, full disclosure, as
far as we know, Other than Dylan, cough, cough, we
are not members of the Illuminati, not even the Bavarian one.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Not yet. Once they accept us, we're in there. Just kidding.
Vengeance Rising, do call again so we can hear your
voice and your nickname. Please do. Thank you very much
for that.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Shout out to Illuminati Hotties. They are a real band
from L.A. You should check them out. I didn't mean
to mischaracterize them.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Sorry, Matt.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Please.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
No worries. Now, we have been talking a lot about
water on the show for a water and the wars
associated with them that are coming and that are here
that have been happening that are right around the corner
for a long time we wanted to hear from a
lot of people who have actually dealt with water because
recently we talked about some hacking of the water treatment
(31:31):
plants and other ways in which we have access to
clean potable water especially here in the US so we
got a call from Teresa so let's hear what Teresa
has to say any wisdom she has to impart on
us Here we go.
Speaker 5 (31:45):
Hi, this is Teresa and I work for the Department
of Sanitary Engineering. So a lot of the stuff you
talked about today is very much up our alley. First
of all, you would be surprised at the amount of
people within our loop that are still on septic and well.
(32:05):
There is a lot of them. They're trying to get
stuff transferred over from septic to sanitary sewer, but it's
slow going. The other thing is we have a spot
in town where they put in a new connector highway,
and the people in this one area were all on wells.
When they put that connector highway in, the water table dropped.
(32:26):
These people were toting in water in farm tanks to
run their home. They finally got water within the past
couple years, but for years, like, a church down the
street would let everybody fill up. Then the other thing... Probably, yes,
water should be human rights, should be free. The thing
(32:46):
that they probably are paying for, you're paying for the
treatment and conveyance of that water. You know, Joe Blow
is not going to go stick a straw in something.
You're not going to go stick a straw in an
aquifer or a river and drink it. You're paying for
us to siphon it out of somewhere, treat it, send
it to your home so that it's chlorinated and yummy.
(33:08):
And then to take your waste treat it, and send
it on down the line. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Bye.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Man, just such a good point, right?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yes. And Matt, if I could just address you directly here, Teresa,
I love the beeps at the beginning because it sounds
like you're kind of cursing about a couple of things.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Did you do the beeps, Matt?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Matt did the beeps.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
You did the beeps. Yeah, well, Zerodactyl, right? That's what
the beep is. Matt, so it also seems like maybe
this arrangement where we do like require someone to do
all of these things is kind of what leads to
the fiefdoms surrounding water rights and ownership because it then
becomes sort of a matter of like municipalities and like
(33:55):
who gets what and how far do you convey it
and all of that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Yeah, I wonder how much of it goes back to,
you know, just being too far away from a place
that has a need to treat a mass amount of
water and send a mass amount of water, you know,
out through these capillaries, through these veins that go in
a metropolitan area or something, or even a suburban area,
(34:20):
if you're far enough away from that, then there's such
a need to have water that drilling a well is
the only way, is the old way, the original way, right?
And then a septic tank system for all of that
waste makes sense because you're isolated and you're not connected
to a bigger system for your waste. Well, it just, man,
(34:40):
every time I think about this stuff, guys, I'm kind
of in awe that we, as humans, throughout thousands of years,
figured out how to send water all around and then
clean that water enough to where we can take the
stuff we poop in and pee in and then drink it.
You know, and we make fun of the water world
(35:02):
sequence of events. Remember in the very beginning when he
drinks his own urine?
Speaker 4 (35:05):
Can't pee into a Mr. Coffee and make taster's choice.
That was the joke that, what's his name, Dana Carvey
made in one of his early stand-ups that I always remember.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Well, it's very true because that filtration doesn't quite work.
And the chemicals that are put in... that are necessary
to make that poop water drinkable again.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
And what about life straws? Ben, I was going to ask,
cause we were talking about sticking a straw into an aquifer.
Couldn't you theoretically, does it offer enough filtration? There's a,
there's more, you know, prepper type straws that you could
drink out of a puddle. It wouldn't filter out heavy
metals and human waste, obviously, right?
Speaker 6 (35:41):
No. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Don't try to drink your, if you're human, don't try
to drink your urine through a life straw. Cool. Converve
that part.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Copy that. But what about like water that was like
mildly contaminated? Like rainwater? Yeah.
Speaker 6 (35:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah. Like standing puddles, stuff like that. Life straw should
work for that. A great note about the heavy metals.
And Noel, this comment reminds me of, something very basic
that we realized earlier ago. I think it was earlier
this year when we figured out, to your point, Matt,
that at some point in human history, somebody said, I
(36:19):
wish I could carry water. Somebody actually invented, you know,
cups and containers, right? So you didn't always have to
live by the lake, the spring, or the river. And
we often forget just how amazing that ingenuity is. So
when you're paying for water, if you ever feel bad
(36:39):
about your water bill, remember Teresa's amazing point. You're not
paying just for the water. You're paying for everything it
takes to get it to your faucet.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Yeah, to make it potable and get it there. You're right.
That's a lot of freaking work, and that's why these
systems are so.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Maintaining the pipes. I mean, don't even get... Dangerous.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Oh, yeah, we got another message from someone talking about, oh, gosh,
the Flint crisis with lead pipes. Lead in the pipes.
And the difference between the stuff that's on, like, the
county side, the pipes that are on the county side
versus the private pipes. Yeah. And then the additive specifically
that goes into the treated water at the treatment plants
(37:21):
that form, it doesn't fully form a barrier between the
water moving through the pipe and the outside or the
interior of that pipe. but it creates enough of a
barrier to where even if they are lead pipes, it's
not going to corrode those pipes and send that lead
into your mouth or onto your child when you're giving
them a bath. So like, that's a great thing, but
(37:43):
if you don't have that water treatment plant, adding those
additives in some way, even if it's a small scale one, right.
For let's say a compound that is treating water via
well or aquifer, but it's still treating that water before
it sends it through the system. And the guards are
all drinking it, you know, looking at you, AI gods. But,
(38:03):
you know, it matters. That kind of stuff matters. And
it's so much more complicated than digging into the ground
and pulling up water from the water table.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
It's so much more complicated.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yeah. Also, hey, send us your hot takes on fluoride.
Just going to throw that one out there.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
That's another one of the first videos we ever made, Ben.
Is fluoridation a thing? Does it really matter? And good Lord,
if it wasn't difficult coming away with a concrete answer
for that. And I still don't have a concrete answer.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
It's still something people talk about. I mean, it's almost
like the vaccinated versus unvaccinated conversation where it's like, is
it a greater good argument or is this ultimately something
that's like really bad for us?
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Teresa would love to get your thoughts on that one
as a professional. Please.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Well, and anybody else who isn't directly involved with the
American Dental Association that knows teeth and anatomy really well
and chemical interactions and applications directly to the teeth versus ingesting.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Because that's where the big question marks rise. Why is
drinking fluoride passing by my teeth potentially for a moment?
But drinking the fluoride and putting it through my system,
why is that helping my teeth?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Yeah, what's the dosage? And also, by the way, guys,
I want to hear from the 10th dentist. Yes, the
one who's like, F-fluoride. whatever they're like nine out of
ten dentists recommend this thing who's number 10 you know
what i mean i want to hear from that rogue
dentist i hope you have an eye patch he's the.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
One that's still ripping cigs in between surgeries yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Like while he's down there real close with the face.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
With a root canal, he's going to tell you a little.
It's good for you. No fluoride, only camels. They call
me the 10th dentist. Have you read the Illuminatus trilogy?
Speaker 3 (39:59):
Don't worry, these are menthol.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
They're menthy.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
Back then, he would have been nine out of the
10 doctors, and the last one would have been the
outlier saying cigarettes are bad.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
How things have changed.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Good Lord.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Well, hey, Teresa, thank you so much for letting us
know about that or, you know, making us think about
that so much. We really appreciate that. Anybody else? Man,
especially if you have a specialization, we love to hear
from you on anything and everything.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
Not to mention water pressure, Matt. That's a big thing
that can be effed with and has to be maintained.
Speaker 6 (40:33):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
You're right.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
It really is open.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
I was hearing a thing on NPR the other day.
It was an interview with this dude who, I think
he worked for The Wire, who had done research into
these scams, like that podcast Scam Factory that he had
the host on.
Speaker 5 (40:47):
I heard that, yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
But there are new iterations of that that are heavily
using AI prompts to create these scripts that they then
keep people hanging on by tailoring their scripts to these people.
But then the guy went on to talk more about
now AI is being used for these things. you know,
infrastructure hacks, and then it's basically just the reality of.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
The world we live in now. And internal Orwellian brainwashing.
You're talking about that outfit running from Laos, right?
Speaker 4 (41:14):
That's correct. That's correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really interesting segment
that went on to talk about a little bit more
of the existential threat of AI, and that is something
that would scale these kinds of attacks, potentially.
Speaker 5 (41:27):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Well, speaking of running from, we're running to some ads.
Thank you so much, Teresa, and Vengeance Rising from calling in.
We'll be right back with more messages from you.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
And we have returned. Now, there's a voicemail we're going
to save for our next listener mail program. Stay tuned
for that. We do have to give you some information.
Pretty great news for us. We always say that we
are a family show. Being a conspiracy realist knows no
demographic other than a love of mystery and critical thinking. Guys,
(42:06):
I am so excited that we got an amazing letter
from a kid, and kids are so much cooler than us, right?
Can I say that? Can I say that on air?
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Especially these days, I'm always talking about how, like, my
kid and their cohort and I'm sure you're seeing this too, Matt,
like just the degree to which they kind of know
what they're all about and what they like. I didn't
have anywhere near that kind of self-directedness when I was
13 or 12, you know.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Now, hold on. I've heard kids are no fun to
hang out with and they're a waste of time.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
I've heard they say the darndest things.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Well, you guys must be talking about the bad guy
in Willy Wonka or Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, the
Gene Wilder adaptation, the good one.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
It is a good one.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah, Slugworth does, spoiler, work for Willy Wonka. Here's the letter. Hi,
my name's Willow, and I'm a big fan of the show.
I'm among your younger listeners. Get this, guys. I'm 13
years old, and I have many episode ideas. So I'd
love to share these with the crew, and let's just
toss the ball around for Willow and see what we
(43:10):
come up with. Also, Willow, shout out to your parents.
They must be amazing. to let you listen to this
show uh willow you say i've been really into true
crime and other true crime related conspiracies lately i've been
time traveling and listening to all your older episodes i
loved the pseudo side and all your true crime episodes
(43:34):
get this one guys Willow says, I tend not to
understand a good 8% of the government and money stuff
you all talk about, but I've learned so much. Willow,
just to set the stage, we don't understand some of
the stuff, some of the deep water we find ourselves in.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
We're all learning together at the same time, Willow.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Willow, if I may speak to you directly, this is
a dangerous road you have put yourself on. There is
too much to learn, as we have all unfortunately discovered.
It's too much.
Speaker 4 (44:06):
Well, you're just talking about stuff and things. I mean,
not just conspiracies. A lot of access to information out there.
I think most importantly, too, Willow, you've got to learn
how to parse it out for yourself and not swallow
everything that's fed to you because the internet is a
hive of scum and villainy now more than ever.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
And Willow and everybody around the same age tuning in,
eventually we are going to need to pass the torch
to you. So thank you for the critical thought. Thank
you for... Thank you for giving us an opportunity to
brag about how much smarter the newer generations are than
(44:42):
us with our old hardware. Yeah, the youth. Like Wu-Tang,
we're for the children.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
That was the only FOMO. That's not true. I had
two or three FOMOs from Shakey Knees. Wu-Tang Clan performed, and.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
It looked like a lot of fun. Yes.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
Music Festival. Sorry, Inside Baseball that I missed.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah, here at Atlanta.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
We've got some episode ideas from Willow. And Willow, I
thought the guys and I could throw these around and
maybe we find something interesting for you. Again, we'd love
to hear from you in response here. You say episode ideas.
Marilyn Monroe's death. Suicide?
Speaker 4 (45:18):
Murder?
Speaker 2 (45:19):
What are the conspiracies behind her death and her relationship
to John Fitzgerald Kennedy?
Speaker 4 (45:25):
Well, that's a Sarah Kotanoff request that's been happening for
years now.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Yeah, it's a good friend of the show. She loves
Britney Spears and Marilyn Monroe and BTS. So, guys, this
is a really interesting one because, as we know, the icons, actress,
a public figure, a Kardashian of her day, Marilyn Monroe,
passed away at a very young age. She was only 36.
(45:53):
And in 1962, when she passed, the authorities ruled her
death the result of a drug overdose.
Speaker 6 (46:00):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
You know, what's interesting is that's been happening more and
more these days with all this fentanyl. There was the
death of, I think, Hayden Panetera. And, you know, she
was sort of a, starlet of our age in a way,
you know, very young, very charismatic young actress who was
in that show Heroes and then went on to, I think,
be in a show called Nashville and she had a
(46:24):
singing career and, you know, incredibly talented young woman who
recently was ruled, her death was an accidental overdose due
to fentanyl. So we are kind of in like this
renewed like celebrity, you know, high profile OD kind of
thing that seemed like it wasn't happening quite as much
for a minute but now it seems.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
Like Guys, I don't want to derail. Do you recall
seeing something recently in the news about a new narcotic
that is similar to fentanyl but even stronger?
Speaker 4 (46:51):
Why do they need it even stronger? A tiny grain
will do. What are we talking about? No, God. Oh, geez.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Yeah, I read about this.
Speaker 4 (46:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
I can't remember the details, though, Matt. You want to
kick it?
Speaker 3 (47:01):
Well, I don't know. Oh, I had something for strange news.
A synthetic opioid San Francisco officials say is more powerful
than fentanyl. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay,
they identified it as cyclo... cyclorphine?
Speaker 4 (47:21):
Cyclorphine, maybe? Who's in the lab thinking, like, what if
we did one worse? One more.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
One more kissing cousin. What if we upped it a notch?
It is terrible, and to your earlier comment there, Noel,
what you're going to realize, Willow, as the years go on,
is that You always have to ask yourself, are more
things happening? Is a pattern escalating or is it simply
(47:49):
easier to learn about what is happening in the world
around us, right? Are there more skeletons in the closet
or do we just have better flashlights?
Speaker 4 (47:58):
Bigger closets.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Or has it always just been corrupt as fuck?
Speaker 4 (48:02):
Also that.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
Also that.
Speaker 4 (48:04):
All three things can be true. Ben, if you don't mind,
I'll just throw to the second one that Will has sent,
which is Dr. Death, Jack Kevorkian, which is, I'm certain
that we've discussed over the years. I don't know if
we've done a deep dive episode, but I would just
put forth, there's a really good biopic, and I don't
usually like those, starring Al Pacino called You Don't Know Jack.
That was an HBO original film from many years ago
(48:27):
that I remember quite liking. And it tells the story
of this man who, pioneered or at least pushed for
the legalization of assisted suicide and did it kind of
law be damned. And that is, to this day, a
really controversial issue, the idea of the right to die.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
And Willow, you're asking some very deep questions. You do mention,
as Noel said, the story of Dr. Jack Kevorkian, which
we have not covered in a full episode or even
talked about on Strange News or Lister Mail programs. It
may be worth a look. I warn you, though, that
(49:06):
That gets really dark and very important very quickly. There's
a moral quandary at play. Like you were saying, Noel,
the idea of assisting someone to consensually end their life.
Speaker 3 (49:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (49:19):
And Willow points that out and asks that question as well,
or at least points out that that distinction this idea
of someone whose life whose quality of life has sunk
so low that uh put helping them end their life
painlessly could be seen as an act of kindness.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
And willow you move on uh to ask us about
brother paul's children's mission the fox islands and their involvement
in the oakland county child killer i know nothing about
this It's gnarly. It's something that we are not going
to get into fully in this program, but I think
(49:54):
we should do an episode on it, you guys. It's
going to be one of those really unpleasant ones.
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Dude.
Speaker 6 (50:00):
I know.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
You know, we also have somebody writing in about the
Franklin scandal, Ben, that we've mentioned in so many episodes now.
I don't think we've actually gone into it. Because it's nationwide.
child trafficking that actually happened.
Speaker 4 (50:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
And you know, uh, for, for us, Willow and everybody
tuning in, that's been one of those episodes that for
years we had, we had the research, we found the
red string and it's just very disturbing. It's like past words.
It's unclean is the word I would use.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
Well, that's one of the hardest things genuinely, guys, about
this show. And Willow, just speaking to you just as
a younger person, there are things that we will often
talk about that we feel like we should be talking about, right?
Almost as if it's our job, it's our remit to
send this knowledge out, right? Into the void and for
(51:01):
you and other people to potentially hear it and learn
about it. But good lord, the act of reading about
it and then going, trying to go to sleep and
then wake up and then read about it some more,
it is, it's not an enviable thing.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
Yeah. And I remember speaking with survivors of some of
the things we've investigated in the past and it stays
with you because these people's lives continue after a headline closes, right?
You also, will you ask us about uh jeffrey epstein
you say we need an epstein update episode uh i
(51:40):
know yeah speaking of trying to sleep at night.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
I think we we do need to cover a few
there are always updates.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
The gillane maxwell pardon you know yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:51):
Dude even more about the the texas ranch right we
need to there's more stuff going on there in that
coverup or whatever the hell is going on there with
the local government and the federal government.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Yeah, you're absolutely right there, Matt. And Willow, we are
on the case. You're giving us a lot of homework here,
which is totally cool. You also mentioned Smiley Face Killer
and the Happy Face Killer. And we can report that
we have an episode on the Smiley Face Killer and
not just that. we also have a multi-season show about
(52:30):
the happy face killer.
Speaker 4 (52:31):
Yeah, I worked in the first season, and then you
worked on the second season. So it's, yeah, it's like,
and it was made into a TV series, which is
on Paramount that I actually never watched, but I think
they cast Dennis Quaid. I heard it was quite bad,
but the podcast is great.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
You could never go wrong with a Quaid, guys.
Speaker 4 (52:49):
Sure can.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Sure can.
Speaker 4 (52:51):
Talking about conspiracy stuff. Randy is not well, man. That
guy is in the wind. He is out of his tree.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
I love when people say in the wind.
Speaker 4 (53:01):
Usually that means he's like on the lam, but I just,
remember when he was on the lam? Randy Quaid, there
was a whole period where he was like on the road,
like making weird, like the, like proof of life videos.
They were getting, he had a big crazy beard and
that dude.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
They were not as weird as the Kevin Spacey updates, uh,
post cancellation, but they were definitely like, is this a
call for help?
Speaker 4 (53:25):
Scott Stapp had some like that too, of Creed fame,
but I think he got better, so.
Speaker 3 (53:29):
I always think about Jack Quaid sitting in his apartment
making macaroni and cheese.
Speaker 4 (53:34):
Jack's killer. He seems the most well-adjusted of the Quaid clan.
Speaker 3 (53:37):
Yeah. And listening to the Lonely Island podcast. That's what
I always think.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
And Willow, we'll wrap this up here. You say, I
would love to have you all cover some of these ideas.
I'd also love to be in a listener mail program. Willow,
thank you. It's true.
Speaker 4 (53:54):
It's happening.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
You're not just hanging out with us on the email's
You are hanging out with us here on Netflix and
the podcast platform of choice. We can't thank you enough,
everybody for tuning in and also, you know, be kind
to your parents, be kind to old entities like us.
We've admitted we're not as cool. You just heard us.
(54:18):
Spend like 20 minutes reminiscing about video games of old.
So we do need your help with this. Everybody, Willow
wants you to know there's another podcast you may enjoy
called The Last 12 Weeks. Not appropriate for all audiences. Guys,
I'm just so gassed when we get firsthand experts and
(54:41):
when we get people from demographics that are not our
own writing in and supporting the show. It makes me
think we're doing the right thing.
Speaker 3 (54:50):
What is the last 12 weeks?
Speaker 2 (54:52):
The last 12 weeks, and this is per you, Willow,
is the story of a criminal named David Wood, who was, quote,
kind of bullied by the cops into being convicted as
the desert killer, end quote. Has clips of Wood and
Willow says they were somewhat conflicted because listening to the story,
(55:15):
gave them a bit of a soft spot for an
admittedly terrible person.
Speaker 4 (55:20):
Oh, interesting. Okay.
Speaker 2 (55:23):
And we've got time for just one more really quick.
This is a letter from home, Alliebug516. You say, hi guys,
you asked for ideas for the spooky season. Please bring
back the 13 days of Halloween. I really missed it
last year. If it's too late to produce that, do
a spooky Christmas winter episode or interview the podcast host
(55:46):
of War Stories.
Speaker 4 (55:48):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
What do we think, guys? We got time maybe to
get a little weird with it toward the end of
the year?
Speaker 3 (55:54):
To rip a whole season?
Speaker 4 (55:56):
Oh, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (55:57):
Not the whole season.
Speaker 4 (55:58):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Maybe just like devil folk tales toward the end of
the year. That could be a lot of fun, right?
Speaker 3 (56:04):
We could do a single episode. We could do the
one day of Halloween episode.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
We could do the one day of Halloween. And we
do have some stories that we're excited to create in
the future there, Ally Bug. We've got some stuff in
the clip, but no spoilers just yet.
Speaker 3 (56:25):
Just to say, the 13 Days of Halloween takes anywhere
between six and nine months.
Speaker 4 (56:31):
I was about to say, let's rip a whole season
out in a weekend.
Speaker 3 (56:35):
It's really hard.
Speaker 4 (56:37):
I mean, I did a few sound cues for an episode,
and that took me a week and a half, and
maybe only 30 seconds of it ended up in the
damn episode.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
It was rough.
Speaker 4 (56:45):
It's a process. It's an incredible process. I'm just saying,
it's almost more like you'd make a film. Uh, then,
you know, a podcast.
Speaker 2 (56:53):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
It's cinema for the years really. And we're so happy, uh,
to know that you enjoyed it. And obviously we love
doing this sort of stuff too. Matt really led the
charge on a lot of 13 days of Halloween, along
with our brother in podcast arms, Alex Williams, uh, Noel
and I both, uh, hopped in where we could help out. Uh,
(57:14):
and we had a tremendous time making it.
Speaker 3 (57:17):
I accept my co-creator status.
Speaker 4 (57:19):
As you should, brother. It's fantastic. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
Well, I just wanted to get that shout out in. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (57:24):
I mean, you know, like, I don't know. We don't,
we don't always talk about this kind of stuff, but
like all three of us over the years have worked
on some pretty awesome stuff outside of the show. So
credit where credit is due. It's very exciting that we
have the opportunity to do those kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
And we hope we can continue, but we can only
do it with your help, fellow conspiracy realists. So speaking
of credit where credit is due, Big thanks to Alliebug516.
Big thanks to Willow, Vengeance Rising, Teresa, and of course, nickname, Jake. Yeah,
join up with us. There are a number of ways
(57:56):
to get in contact. Sure are.
Speaker 4 (57:58):
You can find us all over the internet at the
Handle Conspiracy Stuff or Conspiracy Stuff Show, depending on which
social media platform is your bag.
Speaker 3 (58:04):
Do you want to call us? Our phone number is 1-833-STD-WYTK.
Call about anything you want. Leave us a voicemail. You
might get a call back, but That's not as important
as the information, the knowledge you might share with us
and lead us into a new episode or comment on
something we've already talked about. It helps us all learn more.
So please, please, please do it. Call the number. Hopefully
(58:27):
it's down there on the screen. 1-833-STD-WYTK. Hey, you can
also send us emails and put anything in them you
want to.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence
we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void
writes back. How do you know that's true? There's one
way to try.
Speaker 3 (59:09):
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
A production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Hello and welcome back to the show again. My name
is Matt.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
My name is Noel.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
They call me Ben. We're joined, as always, with our
super producer, Dylan, the Tennessee pal, Fagan. Most importantly, you
are you.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
You are here.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
That makes this the Stuff They Don't Want You To Know.
It's our inaugural episode. Listener Mail Edition on Netflix, guys.
And if you are tuning in to our Listener Mail
program the evening it publishes, welcome, one and all, to October.
That's true. It's October 1st, 2026, you guys. We're in
(01:03):
spooky season.
Speaker 5 (01:04):
Awesome.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
High of 76. Low of 71. Pinch me. Oh, my God.
It's the best. Sorry. God, it's been hot this summer.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Oh, yes.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Brutal.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
On multiple levels.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Metaphorical levels, literal levels.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
You mean like the U.S. is as hot as it's
ever been? We're on a hot streak?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah. Greenland's hot, depending upon whom you ask. And we
have asked you in our continuing mission, folks, fellow conspiracy realists,
to give us your takes, your ideas on episodes in
the past or your Ideas for episodes in the future.
(01:45):
And boy, howdy, have you responded. Guys, is it fair
to say that we're all three gamers?
Speaker 4 (01:51):
I think so. I think fair. Well, you know, varying
weather conditions, fair weather.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I wish you could see more of this room than
this camera can take in right now, because right around
the corner there, there are some framed cameras. Old school
video games, such as the original Alone in the Dark
that came on multiple floppy disks.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Was that like one of those live motion video games? No. No,
it was later than that.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
This is polygons, baby. Scary, scary polygons.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Were you talking about vectors, you mean?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah. Do you guys remember Commander Keen?
Speaker 4 (02:30):
I didn't remember Commander Keen, but I remember growing up,
I had a couple of more wealthy friends, parents were doctors,
and they had early PC games even before home consoles
were much of a thing.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Like Sierra, maybe?
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Sierra, Myst, I remember very distinctly. King's Quest, I remember
very distinctly. Yeah, that's from Sierra.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I loved King's Quest. I'm bringing up Commander Keen because
you can play it now for free, folks.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
I thought you were saying King's Quest because I remember that.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
King's Quest is what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
That's the one from Sierra.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
It was a sword and sorcery kind of King Arthurian game.
And you had a little pile of floppy disk.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Oh, you're saying Keen's.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
There was Commander Keen and then there was King's Quest.
Although King's Quest could have been a subtitle for Commander
Keen if we're being real about it.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
I can't wait for the remake. We also, we received
a letter that sent us back into the past of
this show and Noel on our sister podcast, ridiculous history.
Not too, too long ago, we mentioned that video game NARC.
You brought that up.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Well, it was because, I mean, look, props to the
Trump administration for making the Sega logo, but having it
be MAGA. I mean, that's funny. You know, they got jokes.
I don't know who they outsourced all that to, but
that conversation came up in terms of like, MAGA propaganda
old school looking video games. I don't know exactly how
(04:04):
you play them. They must be web based or something.
I certainly didn't bother actually playing them. But the MAGA
in the style of Sega logo is peak. I got
to give them a chef's kiss on that one.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Does it say... MAGA.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Well, Matt, it would be more of a downward inflection.
It would be MAGA, but it'd be a minor key.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
It would be like, whoa.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Peep slop to me. You're right. You know, that's a
really good point, Dylan. I guarantee what we were seeing
was largely somebody feeding a chat bot prompt.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Dylan, you've got the controller. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 6 (04:44):
Yeah, I keep a Sega Saturn controller next to my desk.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
He's got that thing on him. And folks, speaking of
video games, we've got some deep water to get into,
courtesy of one of our fellow conspiracy realists, right after
this break.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
And we're back. Ben, I'm so sorry. I buried the lead.
You were mentioning NARC. And the reason I brought it
up was because NARC was sort of a borderline propagandistic
video game of our youth that you would find in
your local skating rink where you were like a dude
just murdering drug dealers, just like going around absolutely blasting
(05:26):
and eviscerating drug dealers of varying degrees and varying types.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Kind of like how Call of Duty was very topically
sensitive to who the bad guy should be.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Well, as were movies, you know, in the 90s, the
bad guys were always like Eastern Europeans. And then it
wasn't until the 2000s they became, of course, of Arabic descent.
But I bring that up because video games are such
an interesting thing. I mean, do you remember the first
time you guys saw Mortal Kombat? fighting game cabinet and
(05:57):
just seeing that fatality and like the, the, the spinal
cord hanging from the, you know, the head. I just
thought that was shocking. I just remember finding that to
be like dangerous feeling and like, I want to know
what that is. So it makes perfect sense that parents
were freaked out about video games because they were trying
to play into some of the darkest instincts of like children,
(06:18):
not to mention the dopamine casino of it all, literally
feeding quarters into the machine. And that really is kind
of part and parcel of this urban legend that our
listener wrote into us about. That is a blast from
the past of stuff they don't want you to know,
but I thought it would be a fun thing to
just kind of renew a little chat about real quick.
(06:38):
So this comes to us from, I think I'm going
to call him Jake. I didn't really give us permission
to use his full name and didn't give himself a nickname.
So I'm just going to, I'm going to impart a
very presumptuous nickname to you, Jake.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
What's the nickname?
Speaker 4 (06:52):
It's Jake.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
That's the nickname.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
There we go.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
The really creative nickname that I've come up with. Um, Hey, hi.
He says, Jake says, uh, and Jake, I'm not even
gonna tell him where he's from. It doesn't matter. Irrelevant
to the topic today. Just tells us that we need
to look into Polybius. It was an arcade game that
was highly addicting and men in black suits came in
to collect data. Um, Jake, we're exercising our critical thinking
(07:19):
approach to conspiracy realism here, and I do love that
you said all this is fact, and I think that's
one way of going about it, but we're going to
dig down a little deeper and see what's what. This
seems exactly like the stuff they don't want you to know,
and you're not wrong, Jake, because, surprise, surprise, the previous
or the original incarnation of this program on a video
(07:44):
internet-based platform platform. You guys did this. You guys discussed
this in a video, I believe, called Polybius Factor Fiction,
something along those lines. Am I right, guys?
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Yes, long, long ago.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Do we set up this conversation with a little clippy?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yeah, let's do it. Jake, this is going to take
you back to at least 12 years ago. We'll play
a brief clip from our original video, Polybius, the Facts
and Fiction.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
And it goes on.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Well, look at those graphics, baby. Oh, I put some
text on top of that thing.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
That's all you, man.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
That's funny that you mentioned that, Matt, because speaking of
dated graphics.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Wait, wait, wait. Dated graphics. But let's just say that
came out November 13th, 2013. So, come on. Hey, I
was working.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
It looks amazing. I'm not being a pill. I just
mean that intro, like a lot of shows... You made
that like probably five years prior to that.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Even, right?
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Or when did you guys start putting out videos? Like 2007?
This was still brand new car smell for us.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I remember researching this one and it was, Matt, you'll recall,
it was shortly after we figured out. that our bosses
would not actually fire us for making a conspiracy show.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
And you mentioned that, and I'm so glad that they didn't,
because here we are. Matt, I'm not ragging on your graphics, dude.
It's so funny how technology has increased such that, like,
you were probably doing that on Final Cut Pro using, like,
stock fonts and, like, you know, and it looks awesome.
It looks really, really good. But it is so interesting
how the exponential, you know, march of technology is makes
(09:39):
things that at the time were cutting edge, it's really
easy to see, oh, I know exactly, especially if you're
folks like us that are in this world, what they used,
what the font was, the resolution, the framing, or the,
what do you call it, the ratio, the aspect ratio?
I know that that's kind of what you were getting at. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
No, I was being silly and self-deprecating.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
It's fine.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
It works for what it is in 2013. I thought.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It looked really good, Matt. And also, you know, we
had to, at this point, Jake, We had to cram
a lot of information into a relatively short time window.
If you want the full transcript, happy to send it
to you. But for now, Noel, I think as you're saying,
video games have become more and more of an acknowledged media, right?
(10:25):
It's like literature at some point. And shout out to
Control Resident, which is coming out very soon.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Is it this week? Isn't it like this week?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, September 26th.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Today's the 23rd. That's dope. You know what's funny about that?
When the reviews have been kind of divisive. Some people
are saying game of the year. Some people, there's some
aspects of the mechanics they don't like. I love the
first one. I'm really excited to play the second one,
as I know you are. And Matt, I was really
only using the whole intro graphics discussion to frame the
conversation around the exponential change in technology and when something
(11:02):
is new. it can seem incredibly like, you know, oh
my God, this might as well be magic. And then
when you look back on it, like I just remember
growing up playing, you know, console video games that you
could rent time at this golf, this mini golf course
and seeing like TurboGrafx-16 and how at the time in
my little child brain, it looked like it was made
(11:23):
of magic. Like it looked like I was playing a
cartoon and I went and downloaded some ROMs of like
Bonk's Adventure and it looks like... The way your brain
remembers that stuff and the way just not knowing what
is to come can make you think that something is
absolutely the height of graphics or technology or whatever it is.
(11:45):
And that is where this whole urban legend around this
game Polybius really starts because video games– of any kind
of like color and multiple layers and using, you know, sprites,
which are little elements that allowed you to, you know,
do textures was really new. I mean, the earliest ones
that we've talked about were like pong, where you have
a pixel that bounces from one side of the screen
(12:06):
to another. So it makes sense that when you filter
these games in this increasing tech, this increasingly, uh, you know, um,
complex technology and presentation through, the conspiracy lens of other
stuff that was starting to trickle out, like MKUltra and
other sort of mind control experiments that the CIA maybe
(12:26):
got up to, the fact that these types of conversations
were becoming so widespread, it makes a lot of sense.
And the conversations that we're talking about is around a
particular game that may have existed specifically in Portland, Oregon.
It's always interesting when a specific location is tied together.
to something like this. According to the story, the cabinet
(12:48):
caused some sort of flashes or patterns. It used, I
think you used the term vectors, or you maybe said polygons, guys,
which is another way of describing vector images, shapes that
kind of shift around. So through those patterns and kind
of hypnotic effects, supposedly intense effects were caused. Nightmarish, waking,
(13:11):
you know, sleep demon kind of things, amnesia, even physical illness.
And then there's this discussion around this idea that folks
in black suits would come collect data, service the machines, whatever.
And then of course, as quickly as it appeared, it
vanished without a trace.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
And you're spot on with the legendary Noel about the
idea of getting headaches, nausea, lasting psychological damage. Polybius is
named for a Greek historian, so it's a puzzle game.
It's a maze game. That's how it gets into your head.
The weird thing is, when we originally looked into this, Jake,
(13:55):
we found people like Stephen Rote. Stephen Rote claims to
have intimate knowledge of the game, but the issue is,
when I was really diving in, those claims didn't stand
up to scrutiny. It's actually very difficult to to verify
this story because now, with what you're saying earlier about
(14:16):
the breathtaking pace of technological innovation, now it's super easy
to make a Polybius.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Game, right? Somebody did.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
And just say it's from the 80s, and that's exactly
what happened.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Yeah, this guy Jeff Minter in 2017 made a game
that was an homage. Not necessarily considered like a full
reconstruction because this is a thing that didn't, you know, exist,
but he made a game based on or as an
homage to the urban legends. There are some other interesting connections,
like there's a company name that gets thrown around a
(14:50):
lot that you guys may have discussed in that video,
which is a German word, Sineslochen, which is roughly translated
to sense deletion, like the deletion of your faculties or
your senses. There is a theory that this is also
kind of a Mandela effect situation, that this may have
been mistaken or through that game of telephone for A
(15:14):
game that maybe isn't as popular or didn't stand the
test of time as much as like, you know, Galaga
or Centipede. A game called Tempest that was released around
the same year as these occurrences purportedly took place. There's
a really good piece on Medium by Anthony Dennis called
Killer in the Arcade, The Legend of Polybius, where he
(15:36):
talks about that potential Mandela effect that people might have,
you know, looked at this game Tempest. and connected it
in their mind, you know, with the fallibility of memory,
not to mention pairing it up with some of these
stories where you kind of combine MKUltra type experiments with
the suggestive nature of video games. You're just starting to
see the moral panic around video games and parents worrying
(15:58):
that it's going to you know, affect infect their children's
minds and cause some kind of addiction or, you know,
developmental issues or whatever it might be. But Ben, there
were some other interesting grains of truth to the story
as well.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah, absolutely. We've got to give a tip of the
cap to Brian Dunning, who wrote about this a little
bit over on his outfit Skeptoid. We do know that
we can prove at least two people became ill playing
video games in Portland, Oregon in 1981. So they were
(16:36):
also knocked out the same day at the same arcade.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Right?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
And for everybody younger in the crowd, arcades were a
thing where you could go and play video games in
a public sphere. So we also know, additionally, the US government,
just like while we're mentioning NARC, the US government has
approached video game makers. They even contacted Atari for a
(17:01):
custom version of a game called Battlezone. So we see
the grains of truth that can kind of coagulates, maybe
not the best word, but they can Voltron up into
these sorts of modern American myths. Folks, we're going to
pause here, or will we, for a kind of Schrodinger's
sponsor break.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
I'm going to jump and then hope we'll see if
I'm back on the ground by the time it happens.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
Ready?
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Was there an ad? Was there an ad?
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Oh God, you're okay. He's okay. He's okay.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Guys, I keep thinking about the game Tempest. Do you
guys remember that one at all?
Speaker 4 (17:41):
No, that's what I was saying. I have no recollection
of it and it certainly didn't penetrate the zeitgeist the way,
you know, Dig Dug even did. But like, no, that
is not something that I remember at all, Matt. Tell
us about it.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
It's the kind of game that you would find at
an arcade that still had a bunch of old arcade
games in it. So like early on when I was
going to arcades as a kid, Tempest is one of
those that is mind-blowing in the way you were discussing
seeing something new that you didn't know these graphics could do,
where you're looking, if you're looking at the screen, you're
(18:16):
looking down on this shape that has a perimeter to it,
and the perimeter is broken up into little pieces, and
you play an entity, a ship, a thing that exists
on the outside of this shape that moves around and
shoots at objects that are coming from the distance. It
looks like the far distance up the side of this
(18:37):
object along the perimeter.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
It's like a tube shooter, they call it.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
I didn't know that's what they called it.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Is it giving a sense of perspective where the lines
are sort of broadening and narrowing? There's a Star Wars
space shooter game that uses that kind of vector-y stuff
that has very effective.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Yeah, well, and as you were playing this game, again,
when graphics aren't that great, but they're a little better
than this at this point, it was still mind-blowing to
see those graphics move towards you. That's right.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
That's what I'm describing.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
It's like the Polybius polybius thing that it's like, oh,
my God, what is happening?
Speaker 4 (19:11):
What was that Black Mirror feature length? Choose your own
adventure movie.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Bandersnatch. Bandersnatch. Yes.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
Bandersnatch. That was about a game and about like, you know,
seems to have taken in a lot of this lore
and turned, you know, about a dangerous video game. Um,
as well as there was another episode, uh, it wasn't
about a video game as much. It was kind of
about a video game. It was about like a sort
of like the Sims kind of game with these little creatures.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
A thing that's definitely not Star Trek for legal purposes.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Well, that was that it was that season, but it
was one where it was like this, world of little
widget guys that you could, and they've ultimately, spoiler alert,
kind of took over the world. Oh, I remember that.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, that was a great one.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Very good one.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
That story is directly connected to Bandersnatch because the same
guy that- The same developer.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Will Poulter, right?
Speaker 5 (20:02):
Spoilers.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Spoilers.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Well, I say that because I think those are very
much taking cues, especially with their 80s setting from this
type of urban legend. Berserk, guys, I do not know,
but I will say this. Sadly, it does seem like
brick-and-mortar arcades are becoming a little harder to come by,
but if you're lucky enough to live in the Los
Angeles area, I think we've all gotten to go here together.
(20:26):
There's a really dope arcade called Button Mash that has
all of these types of vintage games. They have the three...
CRT TV X-Men side-scroller. They've got the one where you
can play... I think five people can play it at
the same time. They've got that Star Wars Starfighter game
that I was telling you about that uses some of these.
They've got Dragon Slayer, which was another live-action... Not live-action,
(20:48):
but it was the Bluth company that did the animation.
You basically controlled the way a cartoon would progress.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Dragon Slayer is such a tough game.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
It's ridiculous. I've never made it past the very first moment.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
You have to hit the buttons... at the exact correct
time in the animation.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
They made it too hard, and I think that was
a big problem. That was a big reason why more
games like that didn't, you know. That is a game
that is discussed more in terms of its anomalous kind
of nature, and also how frickin' hard and obnoxiously, you know,
punishing it was.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
And just like every other game we've mentioned so far,
except for Polybus, those games are real.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Those games are real.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Yeah, the takeaway, I think, from this one is.
It's, it's a prime example of very early. I mean, let's, let's,
let's be real about it. This is like early internet
kind of creepy pasta type stuff. It was like pre internet,
internet lore in a way. Um, it also, I don't
think we mentioned this, but there were a lot of
FBI raids on arcades. Um, a lot of that had
(21:49):
to do with more like cracking down on what they
perceived as gambling, um, shutting down, you know, perhaps pinball
houses that were giving cash. I'm not exactly a hundred
percent sure as to why they were doing that, but
I don't think it had anything to do with, uh,
shadowy mind control experiments. And that company, the German company,
(22:09):
definitely did not exist.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I do love the phrase pinball houses.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I love to hear it. It's like a transatlantic accent.
We're busting down this pinball house.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Juke joints. Matt, what do you got?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
I want to talk about one more arcade game that
I want to see if you guys ever played. And
it's been really hard for me to get information on it.
I have direct recollection of it. And it's the same game.
notion that holy crap what am i even playing right
now what is this it was a game that was
in arcades a long time ago and it utilized holograms
(22:46):
so it had like a dome on on it and
then images looked like they were like inside the center
of this thing and it's playing with the way your
eye works with the dome.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Probably mirrors of something like a pepper's ghost type effect
almost I think it.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Was from Sega, and I think it was like Time
Traveler or something like that. I can't remember. It was
incredible at the arcade because you are manipulating holograms that
you're looking at. But all it is is a video,
like a 2D video game just being essentially projected into
that space for your eye. Guys, can we bring that back, please?
Speaker 5 (23:23):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
I want that.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
It is coming up as Sega's lost hologram game. It's
called Time Traveler.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
1991.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
It is called that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
And I remember it existing as well, or something along
what you're describing as ringing a bell, but I also
remember it seemed like it was always on the fritz.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Oh, well, that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (23:44):
It must have been hard to service, maybe, or there
was some issue. But yeah, Time Traveler, or Hologram Time Traveler,
it is a Laserdisc game.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Whoa.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
Designed by Dragon's Lair creator, Rick Dyer, and released in...
So these folks were trying to push the envelope, and
they might have pushed it a little A little farther
than the public was willing to go. So sick. Well,
I think this is it for me, guys. Thank you
so much, Jake. We're going to leave it at that.
I had two other ones that were fun. This was perfect.
So we'll take a quick break, hear a word from
(24:14):
our sponsor, and then we'll be back with more.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
And we've returned. We're jumping to the phone lines.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Now, everybody.
Speaker 6 (24:26):
You ready?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah. We're going to hear a quick one, guys, from
a person with a pretty ominous nickname. Let's just jump
to it.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Vengeance Rising. You guys ever do anything on the Illuminati?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Didn't say anything else after that. Just hung up the phone. Oh, yeah.
Do we ever do anything on the Illuminati? Well, we
have to.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
Take you back. Everything we do is on the Illuminati,
one could argue.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Ah, it's the nature of that term. What is it
really referring to? What is the Illuminati, right? It goes
back to our old, old videos on the Bavarian Illuminati
and the origins of all that stuff. But, guys, and
Vengeance Rising, that's a scary nickname, we are happy to
report that you will be able to find, depending on
(25:20):
when this publishes, so you might be able to find
it right now, on September 30th and October 2nd, a
two-part series on the Bilderberg Group that we recently recorded.
And oh my goodness, it's kind of like the Illuminati.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
They're Illuminati adjacent. Do you guys know anything about the
Christmas Adventurers Club? We should do something about them.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Wait, that rings a bell, but I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
It's from one battle after another. I recently rewatched that.
But they are basically lampooning the idea of the Illuminati.
The Illuminati, as far as I'm concerned, or the way
my brain gloms onto that term, it just kind of
refers to the highest echelon of these various secret societies.
And I think it's more of a MacGuffin than anything, right?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Well, it's interesting, Vengeance Rising. If you go back to 2013,
you'll find not just our videos, but an audio episode
we did about the fact and fiction surrounding the real-life
Illuminati versus the more mythologized version, right, of a, like
(26:29):
Noel said, a shadowy cabal at the tippity-top of society.
Look up a guy named Adam Weishaupt, or Adam Weishaupt,
if you prefer. The Illuminati, or some version of it,
was definitely real, formed in Bavaria, and they definitely had
some big ideas, but guys, it always reminds me of
(26:52):
the old tropes about any kind of somewhat exclusive society,
like the Freemasons or the Shriners are these Are these
a supper club for people who just want to network
or are they secretly running the world and making chemtrails
(27:12):
and depopulating the planet?
Speaker 4 (27:14):
And one would argue if there were an org chart
of secret societies, the Illuminati would be like the top
of the pyramid and all the other ones would be
like sort of subsidiaries, I guess. Ben, I'm asking you
because you're kind of the you're the literati among the
three of us. Are you familiar and have you read
the Illuminatus trilogy by Robert Anton Wilson?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
And by his other pal, also named Robert.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Right.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yes, the Illuminatus Trilogy. I've got a copy here, too.
Speaker 4 (27:38):
I'm thinking about messing with it. It's great. It looks
very Hitchhiker's Guide. Is it meant to be kind of funny,
or is it sort of like satirical sci-fi? There's dolphins
on the cover.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I would call it gonzo sci-fi literature.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
That sounds fun. That sounds great.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Essentially, these two authors kept trying to wrapped together, kind of,
and they were one-upping each other with every subsequent chapter.
And they built a great conspiracy. Not everything aged well,
but it is more than worth your time to give
it a read if you want a cool adventure and
(28:18):
if you're stuck on long plane flights.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Is it three books? There's The Eye of the Pyramid,
The Golden Apple, and Leviathan. Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Hail Discordia.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
And then it appears that Anton Wilson, who's an interesting
cat unto himself, right? Wasn't he sort of a psychonaut?
Speaker 2 (28:33):
What was his deal? Yeah. Again, the word I keep
going back to is gonzo.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
Got it.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
This was a very wild time for literature. Gosh, you know,
now that you're saying that, guys, Vengeance Rising riddle is this.
Why has there not been a film adaptation of the
Illuminati's trilogy? I mean, it's right there.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
And it looks like there's a third or an additional
book that came out later that's only by Robert Anton
Wilson called Masks of the Illuminati. That also has a
dope cover with like a sea serpent swimming in a book,
an open book with Albert Einstein's face in the clouds
in the background.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Reminds me of the book in Snake, you guys. Makes
me think about PC's. animated as a character on a
television ad. Anyway, let's jump, guys.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Hold on, really quickly, though. Can I just show something?
I'm sorry, my kid is here. Have you guys ever
seen the movie Existence? It's a David Cronenberg movie.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
My kid made this gun, bespoke this gun that looks
like the skeleton chicken bone gun that... what's his name,
Jude Law pulls out of his guts in that movie.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
That's all I'm going to say.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
Just phenomenal.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
That's all I'm going to say.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Is that a ghost gun, Noel?
Speaker 4 (29:48):
It's a Nerf gun that has been bedazzled.
Speaker 6 (29:53):
Guys, I just feel like in full, you know, Transparency.
I've told you all this, but for our listeners, I
did get an invitation to join the Illuminati Society a
couple months ago.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Just you?
Speaker 6 (30:05):
It said Illuminati recruiter was who it was from. And
it said, dear sir, madam, we are reaching out on
behalf of the Illuminati Society. So didn't respond. Thought it
might be a trap.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
I would definitely. Also, I'm just mad that– why not me?
Come on. I'm cool.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Oh, Dylan's going to have plus ones.
Speaker 6 (30:23):
Also, check your junk email.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
It might be there too. Everybody check your junk email.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
That's fair. You guys remember the rapper Illuminati Hottie? Wasn't
that a rapper? Or is that a– did I make
that up? That's a band.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
And they're a good band.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
I don't remember the rapper.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Well, it should be a rapper.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Well, thank you, Vengeance Rising. And also, full disclosure, as
far as we know, Other than Dylan, cough, cough, we
are not members of the Illuminati, not even the Bavarian one.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Not yet. Once they accept us, we're in there. Just kidding.
Vengeance Rising, do call again so we can hear your
voice and your nickname. Please do. Thank you very much
for that.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Shout out to Illuminati Hotties. They are a real band
from L.A. You should check them out. I didn't mean
to mischaracterize them.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Sorry, Matt.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Please.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
No worries. Now, we have been talking a lot about
water on the show for a water and the wars
associated with them that are coming and that are here
that have been happening that are right around the corner
for a long time we wanted to hear from a
lot of people who have actually dealt with water because
recently we talked about some hacking of the water treatment
(31:31):
plants and other ways in which we have access to
clean potable water especially here in the US so we
got a call from Teresa so let's hear what Teresa
has to say any wisdom she has to impart on
us Here we go.
Speaker 5 (31:45):
Hi, this is Teresa and I work for the Department
of Sanitary Engineering. So a lot of the stuff you
talked about today is very much up our alley. First
of all, you would be surprised at the amount of
people within our loop that are still on septic and well.
(32:05):
There is a lot of them. They're trying to get
stuff transferred over from septic to sanitary sewer, but it's
slow going. The other thing is we have a spot
in town where they put in a new connector highway,
and the people in this one area were all on wells.
When they put that connector highway in, the water table dropped.
(32:26):
These people were toting in water in farm tanks to
run their home. They finally got water within the past
couple years, but for years, like, a church down the
street would let everybody fill up. Then the other thing... Probably, yes,
water should be human rights, should be free. The thing
(32:46):
that they probably are paying for, you're paying for the
treatment and conveyance of that water. You know, Joe Blow
is not going to go stick a straw in something.
You're not going to go stick a straw in an
aquifer or a river and drink it. You're paying for
us to siphon it out of somewhere, treat it, send
it to your home so that it's chlorinated and yummy.
(33:08):
And then to take your waste treat it, and send
it on down the line. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Bye.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Man, just such a good point, right?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yes. And Matt, if I could just address you directly here, Teresa,
I love the beeps at the beginning because it sounds
like you're kind of cursing about a couple of things.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Did you do the beeps, Matt?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Matt did the beeps.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
You did the beeps. Yeah, well, Zerodactyl, right? That's what
the beep is. Matt, so it also seems like maybe
this arrangement where we do like require someone to do
all of these things is kind of what leads to
the fiefdoms surrounding water rights and ownership because it then
becomes sort of a matter of like municipalities and like
(33:55):
who gets what and how far do you convey it
and all of that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
Yeah, I wonder how much of it goes back to,
you know, just being too far away from a place
that has a need to treat a mass amount of
water and send a mass amount of water, you know,
out through these capillaries, through these veins that go in
a metropolitan area or something, or even a suburban area,
(34:20):
if you're far enough away from that, then there's such
a need to have water that drilling a well is
the only way, is the old way, the original way, right?
And then a septic tank system for all of that
waste makes sense because you're isolated and you're not connected
to a bigger system for your waste. Well, it just, man,
(34:40):
every time I think about this stuff, guys, I'm kind
of in awe that we, as humans, throughout thousands of years,
figured out how to send water all around and then
clean that water enough to where we can take the
stuff we poop in and pee in and then drink it.
You know, and we make fun of the water world
(35:02):
sequence of events. Remember in the very beginning when he
drinks his own urine?
Speaker 4 (35:05):
Can't pee into a Mr. Coffee and make taster's choice.
That was the joke that, what's his name, Dana Carvey
made in one of his early stand-ups that I always remember.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Well, it's very true because that filtration doesn't quite work.
And the chemicals that are put in... that are necessary
to make that poop water drinkable again.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
And what about life straws? Ben, I was going to ask,
cause we were talking about sticking a straw into an aquifer.
Couldn't you theoretically, does it offer enough filtration? There's a,
there's more, you know, prepper type straws that you could
drink out of a puddle. It wouldn't filter out heavy
metals and human waste, obviously, right?
Speaker 6 (35:41):
No. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Don't try to drink your, if you're human, don't try
to drink your urine through a life straw. Cool. Converve
that part.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Copy that. But what about like water that was like
mildly contaminated? Like rainwater? Yeah.
Speaker 6 (35:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah. Like standing puddles, stuff like that. Life straw should
work for that. A great note about the heavy metals.
And Noel, this comment reminds me of, something very basic
that we realized earlier ago. I think it was earlier
this year when we figured out, to your point, Matt,
that at some point in human history, somebody said, I
(36:19):
wish I could carry water. Somebody actually invented, you know,
cups and containers, right? So you didn't always have to
live by the lake, the spring, or the river. And
we often forget just how amazing that ingenuity is. So
when you're paying for water, if you ever feel bad
(36:39):
about your water bill, remember Teresa's amazing point. You're not
paying just for the water. You're paying for everything it
takes to get it to your faucet.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
Yeah, to make it potable and get it there. You're right.
That's a lot of freaking work, and that's why these
systems are so.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Maintaining the pipes. I mean, don't even get... Dangerous.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Oh, yeah, we got another message from someone talking about, oh, gosh,
the Flint crisis with lead pipes. Lead in the pipes.
And the difference between the stuff that's on, like, the
county side, the pipes that are on the county side
versus the private pipes. Yeah. And then the additive specifically
that goes into the treated water at the treatment plants
(37:21):
that form, it doesn't fully form a barrier between the
water moving through the pipe and the outside or the
interior of that pipe. but it creates enough of a
barrier to where even if they are lead pipes, it's
not going to corrode those pipes and send that lead
into your mouth or onto your child when you're giving
them a bath. So like, that's a great thing, but
(37:43):
if you don't have that water treatment plant, adding those
additives in some way, even if it's a small scale one, right.
For let's say a compound that is treating water via
well or aquifer, but it's still treating that water before
it sends it through the system. And the guards are
all drinking it, you know, looking at you, AI gods. But,
(38:03):
you know, it matters. That kind of stuff matters. And
it's so much more complicated than digging into the ground
and pulling up water from the water table.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
It's so much more complicated.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
Yeah. Also, hey, send us your hot takes on fluoride.
Just going to throw that one out there.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
That's another one of the first videos we ever made, Ben.
Is fluoridation a thing? Does it really matter? And good Lord,
if it wasn't difficult coming away with a concrete answer
for that. And I still don't have a concrete answer.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
It's still something people talk about. I mean, it's almost
like the vaccinated versus unvaccinated conversation where it's like, is
it a greater good argument or is this ultimately something
that's like really bad for us?
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Teresa would love to get your thoughts on that one
as a professional. Please.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Well, and anybody else who isn't directly involved with the
American Dental Association that knows teeth and anatomy really well
and chemical interactions and applications directly to the teeth versus ingesting.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Because that's where the big question marks rise. Why is
drinking fluoride passing by my teeth potentially for a moment?
But drinking the fluoride and putting it through my system,
why is that helping my teeth?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Yeah, what's the dosage? And also, by the way, guys,
I want to hear from the 10th dentist. Yes, the
one who's like, F-fluoride. whatever they're like nine out of
ten dentists recommend this thing who's number 10 you know
what i mean i want to hear from that rogue
dentist i hope you have an eye patch he's the.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
One that's still ripping cigs in between surgeries yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Like while he's down there real close with the face.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
With a root canal, he's going to tell you a little.
It's good for you. No fluoride, only camels. They call
me the 10th dentist. Have you read the Illuminatus trilogy?
Speaker 3 (39:59):
Don't worry, these are menthol.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
They're menthy.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
Back then, he would have been nine out of the
10 doctors, and the last one would have been the
outlier saying cigarettes are bad.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
How things have changed.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Good Lord.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Well, hey, Teresa, thank you so much for letting us
know about that or, you know, making us think about
that so much. We really appreciate that. Anybody else? Man,
especially if you have a specialization, we love to hear
from you on anything and everything.
Speaker 4 (40:28):
Not to mention water pressure, Matt. That's a big thing
that can be effed with and has to be maintained.
Speaker 6 (40:33):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
You're right.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
It really is open.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
I was hearing a thing on NPR the other day.
It was an interview with this dude who, I think
he worked for The Wire, who had done research into
these scams, like that podcast Scam Factory that he had
the host on.
Speaker 5 (40:47):
I heard that, yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
But there are new iterations of that that are heavily
using AI prompts to create these scripts that they then
keep people hanging on by tailoring their scripts to these people.
But then the guy went on to talk more about
now AI is being used for these things. you know,
infrastructure hacks, and then it's basically just the reality of.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
The world we live in now. And internal Orwellian brainwashing.
You're talking about that outfit running from Laos, right?
Speaker 4 (41:14):
That's correct. That's correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really interesting segment
that went on to talk about a little bit more
of the existential threat of AI, and that is something
that would scale these kinds of attacks, potentially.
Speaker 5 (41:27):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Well, speaking of running from, we're running to some ads.
Thank you so much, Teresa, and Vengeance Rising from calling in.
We'll be right back with more messages from you.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
And we have returned. Now, there's a voicemail we're going
to save for our next listener mail program. Stay tuned
for that. We do have to give you some information.
Pretty great news for us. We always say that we
are a family show. Being a conspiracy realist knows no
demographic other than a love of mystery and critical thinking. Guys,
(42:06):
I am so excited that we got an amazing letter
from a kid, and kids are so much cooler than us, right?
Can I say that? Can I say that on air?
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Especially these days, I'm always talking about how, like, my
kid and their cohort and I'm sure you're seeing this too, Matt,
like just the degree to which they kind of know
what they're all about and what they like. I didn't
have anywhere near that kind of self-directedness when I was
13 or 12, you know.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Now, hold on. I've heard kids are no fun to
hang out with and they're a waste of time.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
I've heard they say the darndest things.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Well, you guys must be talking about the bad guy
in Willy Wonka or Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, the
Gene Wilder adaptation, the good one.
Speaker 4 (42:47):
It is a good one.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Yeah, Slugworth does, spoiler, work for Willy Wonka. Here's the letter. Hi,
my name's Willow, and I'm a big fan of the show.
I'm among your younger listeners. Get this, guys. I'm 13
years old, and I have many episode ideas. So I'd
love to share these with the crew, and let's just
toss the ball around for Willow and see what we
(43:10):
come up with. Also, Willow, shout out to your parents.
They must be amazing. to let you listen to this
show uh willow you say i've been really into true
crime and other true crime related conspiracies lately i've been
time traveling and listening to all your older episodes i
loved the pseudo side and all your true crime episodes
(43:34):
get this one guys Willow says, I tend not to
understand a good 8% of the government and money stuff
you all talk about, but I've learned so much. Willow,
just to set the stage, we don't understand some of
the stuff, some of the deep water we find ourselves in.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
We're all learning together at the same time, Willow.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Willow, if I may speak to you directly, this is
a dangerous road you have put yourself on. There is
too much to learn, as we have all unfortunately discovered.
It's too much.
Speaker 4 (44:06):
Well, you're just talking about stuff and things. I mean,
not just conspiracies. A lot of access to information out there.
I think most importantly, too, Willow, you've got to learn
how to parse it out for yourself and not swallow
everything that's fed to you because the internet is a
hive of scum and villainy now more than ever.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
And Willow and everybody around the same age tuning in,
eventually we are going to need to pass the torch
to you. So thank you for the critical thought. Thank
you for... Thank you for giving us an opportunity to
brag about how much smarter the newer generations are than
(44:42):
us with our old hardware. Yeah, the youth. Like Wu-Tang,
we're for the children.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
That was the only FOMO. That's not true. I had
two or three FOMOs from Shakey Knees. Wu-Tang Clan performed, and.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
It looked like a lot of fun. Yes.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
Music Festival. Sorry, Inside Baseball that I missed.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah, here at Atlanta.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
We've got some episode ideas from Willow. And Willow, I
thought the guys and I could throw these around and
maybe we find something interesting for you. Again, we'd love
to hear from you in response here. You say episode ideas.
Marilyn Monroe's death. Suicide?
Speaker 4 (45:18):
Murder?
Speaker 2 (45:19):
What are the conspiracies behind her death and her relationship
to John Fitzgerald Kennedy?
Speaker 4 (45:25):
Well, that's a Sarah Kotanoff request that's been happening for
years now.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Yeah, it's a good friend of the show. She loves
Britney Spears and Marilyn Monroe and BTS. So, guys, this
is a really interesting one because, as we know, the icons, actress,
a public figure, a Kardashian of her day, Marilyn Monroe,
passed away at a very young age. She was only 36.
(45:53):
And in 1962, when she passed, the authorities ruled her
death the result of a drug overdose.
Speaker 6 (46:00):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
You know, what's interesting is that's been happening more and
more these days with all this fentanyl. There was the
death of, I think, Hayden Panetera. And, you know, she
was sort of a, starlet of our age in a way,
you know, very young, very charismatic young actress who was
in that show Heroes and then went on to, I think,
be in a show called Nashville and she had a
(46:24):
singing career and, you know, incredibly talented young woman who
recently was ruled, her death was an accidental overdose due
to fentanyl. So we are kind of in like this
renewed like celebrity, you know, high profile OD kind of
thing that seemed like it wasn't happening quite as much
for a minute but now it seems.
Speaker 3 (46:42):
Like Guys, I don't want to derail. Do you recall
seeing something recently in the news about a new narcotic
that is similar to fentanyl but even stronger?
Speaker 4 (46:51):
Why do they need it even stronger? A tiny grain
will do. What are we talking about? No, God. Oh, geez.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Yeah, I read about this.
Speaker 4 (46:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
I can't remember the details, though, Matt. You want to
kick it?
Speaker 3 (47:01):
Well, I don't know. Oh, I had something for strange news.
A synthetic opioid San Francisco officials say is more powerful
than fentanyl. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay,
they identified it as cyclo... cyclorphine?
Speaker 4 (47:21):
Cyclorphine, maybe? Who's in the lab thinking, like, what if
we did one worse? One more.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
One more kissing cousin. What if we upped it a notch?
It is terrible, and to your earlier comment there, Noel,
what you're going to realize, Willow, as the years go on,
is that You always have to ask yourself, are more
things happening? Is a pattern escalating or is it simply
(47:49):
easier to learn about what is happening in the world
around us, right? Are there more skeletons in the closet
or do we just have better flashlights?
Speaker 4 (47:58):
Bigger closets.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Or has it always just been corrupt as fuck?
Speaker 4 (48:02):
Also that.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
Also that.
Speaker 4 (48:04):
All three things can be true. Ben, if you don't mind,
I'll just throw to the second one that Will has sent,
which is Dr. Death, Jack Kevorkian, which is, I'm certain
that we've discussed over the years. I don't know if
we've done a deep dive episode, but I would just
put forth, there's a really good biopic, and I don't
usually like those, starring Al Pacino called You Don't Know Jack.
That was an HBO original film from many years ago
(48:27):
that I remember quite liking. And it tells the story
of this man who, pioneered or at least pushed for
the legalization of assisted suicide and did it kind of
law be damned. And that is, to this day, a
really controversial issue, the idea of the right to die.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
And Willow, you're asking some very deep questions. You do mention,
as Noel said, the story of Dr. Jack Kevorkian, which
we have not covered in a full episode or even
talked about on Strange News or Lister Mail programs. It
may be worth a look. I warn you, though, that
(49:06):
That gets really dark and very important very quickly. There's
a moral quandary at play. Like you were saying, Noel,
the idea of assisting someone to consensually end their life.
Speaker 3 (49:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (49:19):
And Willow points that out and asks that question as well,
or at least points out that that distinction this idea
of someone whose life whose quality of life has sunk
so low that uh put helping them end their life
painlessly could be seen as an act of kindness.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
And willow you move on uh to ask us about
brother paul's children's mission the fox islands and their involvement
in the oakland county child killer i know nothing about
this It's gnarly. It's something that we are not going
to get into fully in this program, but I think
(49:54):
we should do an episode on it, you guys. It's
going to be one of those really unpleasant ones.
Speaker 3 (49:59):
Dude.
Speaker 6 (50:00):
I know.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
You know, we also have somebody writing in about the
Franklin scandal, Ben, that we've mentioned in so many episodes now.
I don't think we've actually gone into it. Because it's nationwide.
child trafficking that actually happened.
Speaker 4 (50:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:18):
And you know, uh, for, for us, Willow and everybody
tuning in, that's been one of those episodes that for
years we had, we had the research, we found the
red string and it's just very disturbing. It's like past words.
It's unclean is the word I would use.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
Well, that's one of the hardest things genuinely, guys, about
this show. And Willow, just speaking to you just as
a younger person, there are things that we will often
talk about that we feel like we should be talking about, right?
Almost as if it's our job, it's our remit to
send this knowledge out, right? Into the void and for
(51:01):
you and other people to potentially hear it and learn
about it. But good lord, the act of reading about
it and then going, trying to go to sleep and
then wake up and then read about it some more,
it is, it's not an enviable thing.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
Yeah. And I remember speaking with survivors of some of
the things we've investigated in the past and it stays
with you because these people's lives continue after a headline closes, right?
You also, will you ask us about uh jeffrey epstein
you say we need an epstein update episode uh i
(51:40):
know yeah speaking of trying to sleep at night.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
I think we we do need to cover a few
there are always updates.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
The gillane maxwell pardon you know yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:51):
Dude even more about the the texas ranch right we
need to there's more stuff going on there in that
coverup or whatever the hell is going on there with
the local government and the federal government.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Yeah, you're absolutely right there, Matt. And Willow, we are
on the case. You're giving us a lot of homework here,
which is totally cool. You also mentioned Smiley Face Killer
and the Happy Face Killer. And we can report that
we have an episode on the Smiley Face Killer and
not just that. we also have a multi-season show about
(52:30):
the happy face killer.
Speaker 4 (52:31):
Yeah, I worked in the first season, and then you
worked on the second season. So it's, yeah, it's like,
and it was made into a TV series, which is
on Paramount that I actually never watched, but I think
they cast Dennis Quaid. I heard it was quite bad,
but the podcast is great.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
You could never go wrong with a Quaid, guys.
Speaker 4 (52:49):
Sure can.
Speaker 2 (52:50):
Sure can.
Speaker 4 (52:51):
Talking about conspiracy stuff. Randy is not well, man. That
guy is in the wind. He is out of his tree.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
I love when people say in the wind.
Speaker 4 (53:01):
Usually that means he's like on the lam, but I just,
remember when he was on the lam? Randy Quaid, there
was a whole period where he was like on the road,
like making weird, like the, like proof of life videos.
They were getting, he had a big crazy beard and
that dude.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
They were not as weird as the Kevin Spacey updates, uh,
post cancellation, but they were definitely like, is this a
call for help?
Speaker 4 (53:25):
Scott Stapp had some like that too, of Creed fame,
but I think he got better, so.
Speaker 3 (53:29):
I always think about Jack Quaid sitting in his apartment
making macaroni and cheese.
Speaker 4 (53:34):
Jack's killer. He seems the most well-adjusted of the Quaid clan.
Speaker 3 (53:37):
Yeah. And listening to the Lonely Island podcast. That's what
I always think.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
And Willow, we'll wrap this up here. You say, I
would love to have you all cover some of these ideas.
I'd also love to be in a listener mail program. Willow,
thank you. It's true.
Speaker 4 (53:54):
It's happening.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
You're not just hanging out with us on the email's
You are hanging out with us here on Netflix and
the podcast platform of choice. We can't thank you enough,
everybody for tuning in and also, you know, be kind
to your parents, be kind to old entities like us.
We've admitted we're not as cool. You just heard us.
(54:18):
Spend like 20 minutes reminiscing about video games of old.
So we do need your help with this. Everybody, Willow
wants you to know there's another podcast you may enjoy
called The Last 12 Weeks. Not appropriate for all audiences. Guys,
I'm just so gassed when we get firsthand experts and
(54:41):
when we get people from demographics that are not our
own writing in and supporting the show. It makes me
think we're doing the right thing.
Speaker 3 (54:50):
What is the last 12 weeks?
Speaker 2 (54:52):
The last 12 weeks, and this is per you, Willow,
is the story of a criminal named David Wood, who was, quote,
kind of bullied by the cops into being convicted as
the desert killer, end quote. Has clips of Wood and
Willow says they were somewhat conflicted because listening to the story,
(55:15):
gave them a bit of a soft spot for an
admittedly terrible person.
Speaker 4 (55:20):
Oh, interesting. Okay.
Speaker 2 (55:23):
And we've got time for just one more really quick.
This is a letter from home, Alliebug516. You say, hi guys,
you asked for ideas for the spooky season. Please bring
back the 13 days of Halloween. I really missed it
last year. If it's too late to produce that, do
a spooky Christmas winter episode or interview the podcast host
(55:46):
of War Stories.
Speaker 4 (55:48):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
What do we think, guys? We got time maybe to
get a little weird with it toward the end of
the year?
Speaker 3 (55:54):
To rip a whole season?
Speaker 4 (55:56):
Oh, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (55:57):
Not the whole season.
Speaker 4 (55:58):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Maybe just like devil folk tales toward the end of
the year. That could be a lot of fun, right?
Speaker 3 (56:04):
We could do a single episode. We could do the
one day of Halloween episode.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
We could do the one day of Halloween. And we
do have some stories that we're excited to create in
the future there, Ally Bug. We've got some stuff in
the clip, but no spoilers just yet.
Speaker 3 (56:25):
Just to say, the 13 Days of Halloween takes anywhere
between six and nine months.
Speaker 4 (56:31):
I was about to say, let's rip a whole season
out in a weekend.
Speaker 3 (56:35):
It's really hard.
Speaker 4 (56:37):
I mean, I did a few sound cues for an episode,
and that took me a week and a half, and
maybe only 30 seconds of it ended up in the
damn episode.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
It was rough.
Speaker 4 (56:45):
It's a process. It's an incredible process. I'm just saying,
it's almost more like you'd make a film. Uh, then,
you know, a podcast.
Speaker 2 (56:53):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
It's cinema for the years really. And we're so happy, uh,
to know that you enjoyed it. And obviously we love
doing this sort of stuff too. Matt really led the
charge on a lot of 13 days of Halloween, along
with our brother in podcast arms, Alex Williams, uh, Noel
and I both, uh, hopped in where we could help out. Uh,
(57:14):
and we had a tremendous time making it.
Speaker 3 (57:17):
I accept my co-creator status.
Speaker 4 (57:19):
As you should, brother. It's fantastic. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
Well, I just wanted to get that shout out in. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (57:24):
I mean, you know, like, I don't know. We don't,
we don't always talk about this kind of stuff, but
like all three of us over the years have worked
on some pretty awesome stuff outside of the show. So
credit where credit is due. It's very exciting that we
have the opportunity to do those kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
And we hope we can continue, but we can only
do it with your help, fellow conspiracy realists. So speaking
of credit where credit is due, Big thanks to Alliebug516.
Big thanks to Willow, Vengeance Rising, Teresa, and of course, nickname, Jake. Yeah,
join up with us. There are a number of ways
(57:56):
to get in contact. Sure are.
Speaker 4 (57:58):
You can find us all over the internet at the
Handle Conspiracy Stuff or Conspiracy Stuff Show, depending on which
social media platform is your bag.
Speaker 3 (58:04):
Do you want to call us? Our phone number is 1-833-STD-WYTK.
Call about anything you want. Leave us a voicemail. You
might get a call back, but That's not as important
as the information, the knowledge you might share with us
and lead us into a new episode or comment on
something we've already talked about. It helps us all learn more.
So please, please, please do it. Call the number. Hopefully
(58:27):
it's down there on the screen. 1-833-STD-WYTK. Hey, you can
also send us emails and put anything in them you
want to.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence
we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void
writes back. How do you know that's true? There's one
way to try.
Speaker 3 (59:09):
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
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Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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