November 6, 2024 • 60 mins
Over in Southeast Asia, the landlocked nation of Laos remains one of the least-explored areas in the region, even today. And those few outsiders fortunate to travel to this country may encounter a mystery that's baffled investigators for centuries (if not millennia): What is the Plain of Jars? What could have inspired ancient civilizations to build hundreds upon hundreds of giant, stone jars out in northern Laos? Why did the US government spend so much time planting bombs in the area?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Nolan.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
They call me Ben. We are joined as always with
our super producer Andrew TryForce Howard. Most importantly, you are here.
That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.
Featuring Triforce's cat astrid. We love mysteries. We hope you
dig mysteries as well. Tonight's episode takes us across the
(00:51):
Pacific to Southeastern Asia, specifically to a place most people
do not visit, Laos.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
It's a bit of a history mystery. Euh mm hm
oh Yescoby and the gang would be on board.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Oh, and it's an exciting one because there's so much
stuff to ponder within this topic, and there's a lot
of history for us to discuss as well, just as
Ben is alluding to, just with the history of the
country and especially with United States involvement.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yes, just so, the recent history of Laos is intensely troubled,
and we'll get into that as well, most Americans in
the crowd tonight. If you think a Laos, you're probably
thinking of it through the lens of the Vietnam War.
And you're probably thinking of Laos and the Vietnam War because,
(01:40):
as Matt mentioned, during the Vietnam War and during the
Cold War, the United States planted thousands of fatal land
mines that remain a danger to anybody in the area
in the modern day.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
So they didn't just go back and remove them all
as a courtesy. No, no, man, that's bad form for us.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
True story. A couple of offins figured out how to
train rats to hunt the land mines.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, yeah, But I mean there's also the ordinance that
just fell from the sky right when when planes were
flying over Laus. I mean, but we're talking about and
it's hard to understand the amount of unexploded ordinance that
is just existing.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
There, millions of tons, not all of it purposely dropped
there on a sort of loose change out of the
pocket scenarios. But the problem with that is for someone
walking around, it doesn't matter whether or not the bomb
was put there on purpose, it will still explode.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yes, because most of it is that term unexploded ordinance
right where it's it's just they are waiting.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
And despite this lens, we do have to acknowledge there's
a lot more to this country to what is called
Laos today. It's ancient, hidden history. And tonight, folks, we
are hoping you will join us on an ongoing endeavor.
Maybe you can help us figure out a question that
(03:14):
has baffled investigators for centuries, if not millennia. Why are
there so many giant stone jars?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
It's a good question when we will likely answer after
a quick word from our sponsor. That was our cold open.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Here are the facts, all right, what do we know
about Laos? If you're being fancy or you work at
the UN the technical name for the country is the
Lao People's Democratic Republic or Loo PDR. And it's a
fascinating place. It's in Southeast Asia. It is the only
(03:57):
country in Southeast Asia that does not have a coastline. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Wow, I never thought about it like that. I always
imagined a piece of it. I guess that is Vietnam
where it wraps around the western side of it.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Yeah, borders shared with Cambodia, China, Mian Mars Slash, Burma,
Thailand and Vietnam. It's fascinating and tragic that a lot
of the history of this region is unfamiliar to the
Western world. To be completely honest, I had no idea.
I don't think any of us had any idea how
(04:35):
far back human habitation stretches in this specific region.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Right. We know, for example, that the oldest skull in
all of Southeast Asia was discovered in northern Laos. The
Tampya Ling Cave holds human remains, the date back at
least forty six thousand years.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah, nuts, pretty impressive. Also, it's the perfect passing ground
between multiple civilizations. It kind of reminded us of the
role that Eurasia played with the old Silk Road. Right,
you're between these great empires, you become a transit point,
(05:19):
you know. And Laos was in what we call Laos today,
was in that situation. Civilizations from India and China, other
nearby regions, they all pass through at one point or
another in very ancient history, even before these civilizations would
be called China or India, they made contact and they
(05:42):
contributed at times violently to the modern day Laos.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, man. And there are all kinds of just incredible
artifacts that you can find there are well, you guys
tell me. In my research online, I found that it's
pretty difficult to get some of the websites for the museums,
like the more local museums that exist in places in Laos.
(06:09):
It's hard to get those websites working really well for
me and to see the actual imagery and the actual
artifacts that are in museums and places there. But you can,
you can find a couple and some especially around the
stuff that we're going to be talking about today. But
there are things that go back to this era that
(06:29):
goes back millions of years up until eleven thousand years ago,
which we're just we just mentioned oldest skull. It was
like forty what forty six thousand years ago.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
And it's such a diverse regions here because I think
a lot of people, myself included, might not have realized
that it's like its own kind of crossroads of civilization,
especially being such a tiny geographical, you know area.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, But but the whole point is the we've talked
about this before. The stuff that sticks are that humans create.
What's the thing that sticks around the best stones stones?
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah, we're talking about the police to scene aka street
name ice ages.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, the mammoth times.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
They were mammoth times indeed, and people will argue there
were giants in those days.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Oo ooh, which is really cool when you think about
the at least the story surrounding today's.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
And the roots of modern day laus come about. In
I would say thirteen fifty three CE or so, a
warlord named Fa Gum declared himself the king of Lanzhong
million elephants. That loosely translates to also side note, we
(07:54):
are clearly not native speakers. We are going to tangle
with some words that were will do our best to pronounce,
and if we're ever in a tough spot, we'll spell
it out for you so you can search on your
own for sure.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
With Ben, you helpefully pointed out off air that I
believe the X sound is sort of a Shia kind.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Of yeah song song.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Yeah, it's good to know.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
It depends on this our level best, Yeah right, It
depends on your your translations, your linguistic mileage may vary.
The Kingdom was initially a vassal state of a civilization
in nearby Cambodia. It split into three different parts in
sixteen ninety four. It was overtaken by the Thai or
(08:39):
Siamese civilization gradually, piece by piece, such that it became
a vassal state of the Siamese civilization in eighteen eighty five,
which is crazy because it's recent, right more or less?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Right, Well, yeah, it goes, it gets even crazier and
laws where they can getting invaded. I think it's one
of the major problems of existing in that cool spot
where you get influenced by all these you know, big empires.
But those big empires often have plans ideas about expanding
territory and you just happen to be right up against.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Them, right, it's that crossroads elements.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah. Maybe another way to say it is you can
meet a lot of people at an interstate gas station,
but also you can meet a lot of people at
an interstate gas.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Station sushi glory hole. Sorry, have you guys heard that
song yet?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yes? Okay, heard or experience?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Yeah, yeah, it's not what you're thinking.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Guys, Wait, where are you going? Hear us out.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Hear us out, hear us out. So if you look
at modern lout like to your earlier point there, no,
you'll see it is a fairly new thing. As we
record this evening. Experts are still working to learn more
about the story of this region. It is often described
as being forgotten. It is one of the least explored
(10:09):
countries in this part of the world, if not on
the planet overall.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
And that's not in any what we're going to get to,
but in any small park because of some of this
stuff we're talking about today, like all of these things
left behind by the US that are not particularly conducive
to exploration, you know, lest you get blown up.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Oh yeah, that unexploded ordinance has had a major effect
on so many aspects of the country, whether it's from
economic expansion to being able to dig in the ground
for you know, at these amazing sites because you've got
to get them cleared first.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Probably a little bit of an issue with tourism, you know,
I mean.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Which is the fastest growing legal industry in the country.
Of course, a couple of caveats there for the astute listener,
and then check out our future episode on the troubled
border of Mianmar. But with this we know that the
modern Laos is a somewhat recent thing. The actual name,
the term for these three different kingdoms was coined by
(11:13):
French colonial forces. They in United Lao Kingdoms in the
region under the rule of French Indo China back in
eighteen ninety three, so again pretty recent in the grand
scheme of things, primarily due to the consistent interference of
foreign powers. Laos is a country with a lot of problems.
(11:36):
We actually, you know, we talk about this sometimes on air,
but we actually may not be able to go to
Laos after this episode. They're a little bit touchy. The
ruling Communist government is constantly accused of corruption. Poverty is rife,
crime is as widespread as the bombs, which are relics
(12:02):
of you know what is sometimes called the Secret War,
which took place around Viadam.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, oh my gosh, the nineteen sixty three, sixty four
to seventy three, those are the years when those bombs
were dropped, and it was the Secret War. This is
mentioned and almost hinted at in a lot of the
popular i would say, graphic novels and some of the
movies and TV shows that we like a lot, but
just this concept of what the United States was saying,
(12:31):
like there you can hear quotes of then President Kennedy saying,
you know where in allows for peaceful reasons. It's all
peace baby, he said it, just.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Like that Barian.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah. Yeah. And then just for the result to be
you know, minds and cluster bombs.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah, the result is that allows today this evening is
in fact the most bombed country in modern history, per
cap But if you are fortunate enough to visit, just
remember this. First off, never talk politics in a foreign country.
Not to be like the fun police, but be very
(13:11):
careful here. And then secondly, if you see a sign
that says don't walk on the grass, you should can
believe it.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
Chicky want to you can't want to tread lightly, Well,
that's so maybe not tread at all, probably best in
not tread at all.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
If you want to learn more about that stuff, just
we'll throw to an article real quick in the Guardian.
You can read something that was written in April of
twenty twenty three titled the fifty year Fight to clear
US bombs from Laos. And it is just tragic to
hear the stories of children, little little kids in school
(13:47):
being taught specifics about types of ordnance so that they
can recognize even the tip of a piece of something
that's you know, stuck out of the dirt.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
These yeah, these evil relics of American activity in the
Vietnam War, when the US was bobbing Laos, when there
were incursions in Cambodia as well. In Laos alone, hundreds
of people die or get maimed every year. We're talking children,
missing limbs. We're talking people people walking through a place
(14:19):
that they have walked through for decades, making the wrong
step and becoming obliterated. If you want to read a
slightly more positive spin on this, do check out a
Smithsonian article by Danny Lewis from twenty fifteen, which is
all about how giant rats have been taught to sniff
out these land mines. That's at least a positive spin.
(14:40):
I'm always looking for those.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Do they go in, Is that like their final mission
when they find a cluster bomb? Or do they just alert? Sorry,
I'm just imagining alert jumping on it.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah they're not. They're not. Yeah, they're not suicide jockeys.
Are They're also pretty to train?
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah, checks out, especially if you're given the life span
of a rat. Story for a different time, right.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
But there are cool groups out there, like the Mind's
Advisory Group that are specifically attempting to clear large areas, right,
but I think it oh Man. In that article from
the Guardian, they're saying it at the current pace, it
would take one hundred years.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
To clear it.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yes, it's absolutely correct. Unfortunately, and the endeavor to clear
the country of unexploded ordinance is dramatically underfunded because it
simply does not exist in the zeitgeist for a lot
of people who would donate to a charitable cause. Kind
of similar to how only the fuzzy animals that are
(15:49):
endangered get saved, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
It's true the cute ones.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, what about those pangolins, Man, come on.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Gross get rid of them.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
I could see.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
I'm just joking.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
So if you are I like that note, I could
see in a world without pangolins, they're on the way. Yeah,
I want to save them too. If you are again
fortunate enough to explore Laos firsthand, you're going to meet
some of the coolest people around, some of the nicest
people who have some of the most kick ass food ever.
(16:22):
You were also going to encounter ancient mysteries that have
baffled people for millennia. One of the most famous, the
Plane of Jars. I can't believe we're finally getting to this.
This has been a hobby horse. I've never seen.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Them well me neither well outside of the Internet, of course.
But it's I'm sure it doesn't do justice because it guys,
I'm sorry, I'm going to make an elden Ring reference.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
I just have to say, by all means, is it
that the jars with arms and legs that run.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Around, Well, specifically, it's imagery from the expansion that exists
where there are just fields that have these what the
jars that exist in that game. It feels like somebody
was aware of this topic, the plane of jars, and
put it into the game and came up with lore
(17:16):
about it. And it just when I'm looking at imagery
of the actual plane of jars that exists in the
world today, I go right to that imagery and elden
Ring because that's where I saw that very specific thing first,
just fields of these amazing looking jars.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
And that expansion is shadow of the rd Tree.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, I always think the Scdoo tree, which is a
weird name.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
For the Ohio tree. Yeah, we're not getting friends and neighbors.
If you go out to the hung Quang plateau of
northern Laos. You will see a relatively level area just
inundated with these huge a carved stone jars. Just like,
(18:03):
look at these things. Pull up your search browser of choice,
visit your local library. Sure, the French discovered it during
their colonial period, but everybody already knew these things were
out there. And the questions we're hoping to answer are one,
who built these? To why were they built? And three
(18:26):
why are they no longer being built today?
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Do you guys remember the pretty popular Christian band Jars
of Clay. H I don't know why it comes to mind.
I'm sorry, didn't mean to. What was a song about?
Like the Noah flood? Good fuck chans the flood. They're
kind of like Christian Creed. Wait, Creed was Christian Creed?
What am I talking about?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
We'll find out after a word from our sponsors. Here's
where it gets crazy, all right.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
First off, Jars of Clay was my favorite band growing up.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Okay, Jars of Clay was great. I was gonna say
that I thought that. I thought that was a bop.
It was one of those things called Yeah, it's one
of those. The song about the flood is one of
those bops where you don't need to speak English understand it.
The song structure is just amazing.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Ny Tail spins the yarn, and.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
We hope you can help us spin some yarn today.
There's not one plane of jars. They're like ninety known
instances of these things out there on the plateau, and
there may well be more because this is one of
the least explored countries in the area. Each site has
(19:48):
between one to four hundred carved huge jars cauldrons. Actually,
if you look at the pictures, they look a lot
more like cauldrons.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, yeah, it does. It looks like something could have
either been cooked in there or or you know, you
think storage as well as soon as you look at them,
which is really interesting. And I guess the other thing
that is kind of baffling when you look at them,
they are varying in their sizes. Right, Some of these
none of them are tiny, right, because they're almost four
(20:22):
feet The smallest one is about four.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Feet or three a meter, So yeah, exactly, So.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I mean that's not tiny. That's still a huge jar.
What are you gonna put in that jar? But others
go up to like nine almost ten feet mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah, they're between one to three meters that's about three
point two eight to nine point eight feet. Shout out
to Namibia and the US, the last two countries who
refuse to do the metric system.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, because it's America.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
You are rock.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
From our cold, dead feet and hands.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Nobody wants to hunt big meter, you know what I mean?
We hunt big foot. That's right, that's right. Yeah. I
feel like I feel like we just all need to
take a plug of a big leak chew. Do you
guys remember that.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
When so cool my bubblegum chaw?
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, the candy cigarettes, oh man, idea.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
But these jars amazing. And because there are varying sizes,
I think you immediately go, well, why would they Why
would there be such a difference between the large ones
and the small ones? Were they all for the same thing?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Right? Yeah? Why the variation upon the theme? The bottom
is always larger than the top. They are all cylindrical.
They all basically do look like cauldrons. Some are not
in great shape, obviously. Some of them have lids. Most
have like a carved rim. You could imagine a lid
(21:57):
being And it reminds me of our discussion on the
mystery of non module. These are megalithic structures. At some
point in ancient history, a bunch of people who had
a lot of other stuff to do put a ton
of time and energy into building these curious structures.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Matt, you're spot on. I picture the jars from elden
Ring instantly in my like that. It's just that they're
the perfect size, perfect level of ornate kind of attention
to detail carved into the outside. These probably didn't sprout
arms and legs and kick your ass, but they in
my mind, they look very similar.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
There's definitely some inspiration from the these sites and there Ben,
as you were saying, they're scattered like pretty much all
over this area. There are three main sites though, right
if you like, if you go on a map or something,
you'll discover Site one, Site two, Site three, which are
just larger collections of them. But one of the other
(22:57):
things that was discovered is that these jars exist under
the ground too, in a lot of places. So it's
not just the ones you can see above ground, which
look incredible. There's also a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Buried, yes, yeah, buried, forgotten, unexplored. We kicked some stats
already on the jars themselves, and their structures. But what
we need to understand is this is one of the
most important prehistoric sites in all of human history. Add
to this evening, no one really knows what those human
(23:35):
ancestors were doing when they built this stuff. We've got
some good guesses, but no one has proven it. We
don't know what inspired people to make these things. As
a matter of fact, it wasn't until twenty twenty one
that a coalition of researchers from LAOS in Australia managed
to date some of the jars. Not romantically like, they
(23:56):
figured out how old the jars are, and they did
this with a yes, bizarre technology that does not sound
like it should be real. It sounds like a move
in a video game. Optically stimulated luminescence.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Gotta tell you looked this up, guys, and I'm still
super confused. What we could say is from a super layman.
That's me standpoint. It is it is testing when the
last time specific like minerals were exposed to sunlight, and
(24:33):
it does it in a way that is super sciencey,
And my brain hurts when I read some of the sentences.
So I don't even know if I'm gonna try i'll
read I'll read it to you from geosciences. It's optically
stimulated luminescence dating or optical dating, provides a measure of
time since sediment grains, so specific grains we're talking about
(24:56):
here were deposited and shielded from further light or exposure.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
M This uh, this makes use of electrons that are
trapped between different crystalline structures of certain.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Sure, sure, I just don't get it.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
It's just about the grains.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
You'll mess with the grains, yes, absolutely, with the brains.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I just I think it's just hard for me to
understand how I love the humans are so smart, just
figuring out how you actually measure that, right, Like, oh,
these are these electrons. There's pockets where these electrons where
stuff would be filled inside if it were exposed, but
it's not. It was under this jar for this number
of years roughly.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
I that's that's one of those things where first off, yes,
thank you to the humans, and then secondly, someone obviously
lost their mind figuring this out.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
You know what I mean, I've got eureka, I've gotten mad.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Yeah, someone's marriage got ruined over a valence band obsession. Dude.
That's where it happened well, so thank you, Thank you
boffins for doing this. This research is fascinating. You can
you can read the statements from the folks who leveraged
this to solve the mystery. That's people like doctor Louise
(26:28):
Schwan from University of Melbourne. That's Associate Professor douggled O'Reilly
from a and U Australia National University and doctor tonglith
Lone Colt from the Loud Apartment of Heritage. So they
figured out how to do this. What they found when
they applied this optically stimulated luminescence was that people had
(26:51):
been building these jars across multiple generations and they were
likely placed in their current positions from well forty to
six sixty BCE. These things pre date Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
By a long shot. And and it is just gosh,
it's baffling that we can even know that through that stuff.
But what's the other dating technique that was written about
in that same article. There's one in fizz Org about
that it.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Was is there a reason that radiocarbon dating can't be used?
Or is like this I've never heard of this method?
I just thin guess I've always is.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
That what zircon UPB dating is. They mentioned that as
well as like a way to measure carbon.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
They definitely used radiocarbon dating as well. I think, what's
new about this and the other? Look, I can't pretend
to understand a lot of me you could. I think
this service to all of us. You know, zircon UPB
(27:56):
dating is definitely a thing. It's also the trital what
its right?
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Yeah, involving detritus.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
So so, guys, I looked at that one up to
this is what it says. Whole grain analysis by thermal
ionization mass spectrometer yields UPB ages with the greatest precision
but potentially poorest accuracy.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
What like like I didn't understand even where that sentence
is supposed to be split up.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Also, greatest, greatest precision, poorest accuracy means it will give
you the most specific result with the highest likelihood that
that result is incorrect exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
But also it's because of the mixing of different age
components and PB lost domains.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Ah, yes, let's talk about that.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Yeah, why didn't you say?
Speaker 3 (28:50):
So?
Speaker 4 (28:51):
That's a different color?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Where is jaw? We need your job?
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Rules? Shall start this out you'll get it done, you know,
I think the material science they are. One of the
fascinating points to raise is that these jars are not
uniform in their composition. You'll find limestone, sometimes sandstone, granite,
a combination thereof Most are sandstone. But the fascinating scary ones,
(29:22):
the ones at site one. Those are limestone. And what
it seems to indicate is a valuable clue the sculptors
were likely working with whatever material they can find nearby.
You can trace some of these stones to nearby quarries.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
But they're not that nearby, right, which is a whole
other thing.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Yeah, they're longer than you would imagine, similar to nan medal.
But what I think it shows us is that people
were working in service of an idea, a greater concept
or cultural trend. So if you want to make these
cauldrons or these jars for some reason, and you don't
(30:02):
have the sandstone nearby, then you grab the granite or
the limestone.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
You don't have the sandstones.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Do you know how many?
Speaker 3 (30:11):
That sounds good? I think we keep it.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, do you know how many were made out of quarts? Guys?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
No?
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Zero? At least according to according to plane Dash of
dash Jars dot Org.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Yes. Yeah. Also the Crystal Skulls are a hoax, unfortunately.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
But the vodka is a thing that exists, the vodka,
Crystal Skull vodka. And it's likes company here, it's somebody
famous as company.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Somebody it's Dan Ackroyd.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Sorry, it's Dan Akroyd's company. Is a big old ghosty guy.
He's really into conspiracy stuff.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
He's got a show too, or he had.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
He did pretty good. He's an odd cat.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Yes, also Canadian. You like how I added that in
italics at the.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
End, not mutually exclusive, necessarily being Canadian and being an
odd cat. But you know, there's a Venn diagram in
there somewhere.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I think I I think I could listen to him
talk like maybe all day, just some of them. His
accent is just so.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
The King of that played and Tommy Boy, he was
like the Muffler King of.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
I forgot he was in Tommy Yeah he was. Anyway,
Congratulations Dan, is what we're saying on all your success,
On all your success, big fans. We also have to
mention that in these structures you can find human remains.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
And that's the lead.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah, that's yeah. They probably veried a few, But that's
that's our other big clue. Right, So let's go to
something we teased earlier, our our immediate questions, who built this?
Why if one ask who built it, we have to
look at the folklore, right, ask the people on the ground.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Yeah, let's and has it that a race of giants,
you love, a giant story ben potentially inhabited the area,
and we're ruled by a king by the name of
Kun Chung who fought a very long and ultimately victorious
battle against an enemy.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah. Yeah, And why did he need all those jars?
He's a big old giant. Why are they just all
over the place.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
What do you do after you have won a battle
against a enemy? Well, in Chunk's case, you you make
a lot of rice wide.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
That's how you replenish your chi in the RPG version
of this story, right, yeah, flask or whatever you gotta.
You gotta re up that those hps get that lao high.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Maybe it's uh strategically placed supplies during the battles and
stuff like reach around.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Yeah okay, yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
This is all this is made up in my mind.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Sorry, this is headcannon for us. So maybe the maybe Further,
the reason that all these jars are broken open and
strewn around is because they kept drinking the rice wine
and forgot to replace it at some point. Right, So
maybe like like after a rager house party, you know,
(33:21):
you walk into the back deck and there are just
tons of empty miller like hands or something.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Or you go into the fridge and someone's left an
empty carton of oat milk in there, and you just
fly into a rage. You know who it was? It
was the kid? The kid did it?
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Okay? Oh no, I feel like you're coming from some
first hand experience in that one. Nope, Okay, I'm.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
Venting a little bit. So nobody likes to see that.
Nobody wants to see an empty you know yo yoa
bag hardboard thing. No, it's no good.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
We you guys know, I drink a lot of strange
beverages and juices and that they I know what you're
talking about. Because let's say you get a jar of lemonade,
right yeah, and there's the one swig left in the body.
Nobody wants why did you do that?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Come on, dude, well, let's talk about other possible uses
of this these jars because we can, I tell you
where my mind went to please do and I saw
it mentioned in a couple of places. What about ancient techniques,
techniques for food storage and.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
For fermentation exactly right.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
I don't know why, and I know this is not correct,
but I imagine the way to create kim chi if
you're if you're doing it in some of the older
ways and literally bearing it, burying it for fermentation purposes.
I'm imagining using some kind of vessel like that, not
for that specific food, but for something like that.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
I mean, there's all kinds of other like East Asian
cultures that will wrap things in, say like banana leaves
and bury them in the ground. Like you know, there's
all kinds of examples of what you're talking about, Matt.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Also, fermentation is something that humans would be figuring out
around this time, and fermentation was a global technology because
everybody had to figure out how to keep food edible.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Right yeah, and stuff to drink right right.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Which would go to the second idea or the third
idea here, which would be storage of rain water for instance,
or storage of something and that all jibes.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
I propose an additional possibility for these jars about clay.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Yes, wait, are you of Clay.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yes, No, that answer is world's apart, my friend.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
Sorry, I never made a beast flood. That one kind
of broke through Secondler Radio flood. I don't think I
ever gotten around to the rest of our catalog.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yeah, they have an album coming out with Dan Ackroyd
and jaw Rule.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
I can't wait.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
What Ario It's called Jaws of Clay.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
That's too good, Ben, It's terrible.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Up a little bit.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
It was so good.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Throughout, joy in my mouth and my heart.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
I could handle it.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
If only we had our own set of gigantic stone jars.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
It's not too late, man, let's let's let's together.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
That's the spirit, and we have to remember that folklore
always carries with it some version of the truth. We
saw this in earlier giant stories like the c Tech
check out our episode on that spoiler. We figured out
what was going on. Maybe here we take a break
for a word from our sponsors, and then when we return,
(36:54):
we ask why build this? Like why why? We We
seriously still don't really know why people why people were
building this giant or human? And you're right, no, well,
(37:17):
I love a giant story, but we do know there
was a little bit of research up until like the
early nineteen hundreds.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
Yeah right, and that's mostly by French academics, primarily one
in particular, a geologist named Madeline Kolanie, who excavated a
cave at one of the first French discovered discovered sites.
I guess, I mean, yeah, it's about claiming things, you know,
named as you put it, Ben in a burst of creativity,
(37:46):
site number one, like the Blur song. You know, it's
like a song number one, the Woo who one and
Kilani explored another six or so sites that contained these jars,
and for decades her work was kind of seen as
the best Western not like the motel chain exploration of
the sites and motivations behind building these structures. She kind
(38:07):
of seems to be the authority for some time on
what was going on with these these structures.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
And just to be clear here, Kolani in her exploration
of Site one in particular, she discovered the human bones,
the teeth, the remains that humans were at one point
in at least some of these jars.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
As well as pottery sharks.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah, pottery, So like why do in my head these
are almost pottery themselves, But they're not. They are stone,
they're carved stone structures. If we know that at least
some of these jars contained human remains, don't we feel
like that skews like the even the way people would
think about them, potentially, because you don't accidentally have human
(38:49):
remains in fermenting jars or in rain dark Okay, no,
you're right, so, okay, okay. I feel like in my
if I was out there doing that, it would push
pretty hard towards Oh, these are funerary rights or this
is like some kind of burial.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Ritual, right right, Yeah, and kidding aside, Yes, people end
up dying in all sorts of strange places and nooks
and crannies throughout history and throughout the globe. But this
feels purposeful, right, This feels as though it was built
to store something. As we're saying, nol Kolani finds these
(39:31):
strong indicators and is on the right path, right, the
path toward discovery. Except the research got shut down and
then banned to the point where if you were a
professor or a boffin, a fellow nerd eggheader tourists trying
(39:52):
to check out these sites, you could meet the wrong
end of a sword, for sure, very nasty stuff. Oh yeah,
research was banned until nineteen ninety four, which is why
there are so many theories. You know, in the absence
of transparency, speculation only thrives. Maybe we start with the
(40:15):
craziest theory, what if there were giants? There's actually a
little bit of sandstone to this, as Noel would say.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
Yes, the idea that giant humanoids existed for some period
in that region and potentially learned how to quarry and
carve stone, and then also for some reason didn't leave
any material trace that they existed other than a bunch
of carvings on a plateau.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Well, it's weird, guys. Do you get images of Skyrim
at all? And the giants with the mammoths like walk
after them.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
They always smash me. But they're fun to you know,
they are gentle. But sometimes you just want to f
around and find.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Out with those you're going to turn into a stealth archer.
That's what Skyrim does.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
That's every time, every time. But I guess I just
have I have images of that in my mind where
you can imagine early versions of us, imagining the creatures
like us that are walking around, you know, that are
close to the size of a mammoth that would you know,
raise mammoths and use mammoths for whatever purposes, including getting
(41:22):
their milk like in Skyrim. But whatever you know, I
mean you can just I think you can imagine that.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Yeah, for sure. It's also here's the sandstone part about it.
Here's where the argument sounds less crazy. It's the old
Bigfoot question. We're raising, right, these huge things that were
somewhat like yet entirely distinct from humans. They existed, they proliferated,
they vanished, They left nothing behind except for the fact
(41:50):
that they're super into jars. There is a There is
a fascinating folkloric note because southeastern Asia was, during this
era of time, home to the world's largest known primate.
It has a very dumb and I would say somewhat
offensive name. It's full name, but it's real name. Just
(42:11):
call it Gigantipithecus. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Wait, has more than.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
That, Gigantipithecus Blackie.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Oh, like the Christopher Walk in King Louis and the
live action Jungle Book.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Yes, just so.
Speaker 4 (42:24):
He even writes it into the song.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Yes it is. That is a gigantipithecus, and well done.
This thing only became extinct in the late Middle plastine.
No one sure why it went extinct. Just like other
megafauna of the day, it was a big, probably not
super duper fast herbivore. But this guy's a real chonker,
(42:49):
ten feet tall, weighed over twelve hundred pounds. Shout out
again to the US hashtag never the metric system. And
so we know it's quite possible that human beings Homo
sapiens in this part of the world ran into this big,
not quite human thing out there in the forest, so
(43:12):
they would have to have legends about it.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Yeah, I mean, really, it really is this. If you
look at size comparisons of like theoretically what Gigantipithicus could
look like. From what we do know, it does appear
to be Bigfoot like between somewhere between Bigfoot and King Kong, right,
I mean it's huge.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Yeah. Yeah. It's also that the way it's depicted in
the live action Jungle Book, in the King Louis character,
it looks a lot more like an orogaton.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
Yeah, you know, and and the way it's depicted in
that movie would have been quite significantly larger than the
real thing as well.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Right, Oh yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Yeah, well, and it's yeah, it's it's depicted often in
some of these what would you call these scientific illustrations
where it's like, theoretically, this is what it looked like.
For me, it looks like a cross between an orangutan
and a gorilla, like the way it you know, would ambulate.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Yes, yes, it's got the big cheeks too on the front, I.
Speaker 4 (44:19):
Mean, but it is not kaiju size.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
No, no, no, definitely definitely a chonky chonky boy. But
so we know that humans may have interacted with this
mega fautum in this area at this time. It may
have informed folklore. But from everything we know about Gigantipithecus,
which is honestly not a lot, this primate did not
(44:46):
have the gumption to use tools. There's no record of
it doing those classic human moves, right, so we could
say that they that the humans at some point encountered something,
maybe even Gigantipithecus. Honestly, if we know humans, which we do,
the odds are that they are the reason that Gigantopithicus
(45:09):
went extinct.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, and you likely wouldn't have much time for fossils
to be created. It just depends on you if you
theoretically did have an interaction between let's say a large
group of Gigantopithecus that lived in that area. Then humans
come in. Humans figure out how to basically kill all
of them and eat them, and potentially eat them. There
(45:36):
really wouldn't be anything left. Those bones would go away
over that span of time.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Yeah, that's a scary point. I mean, check out the
story of those poor hobbits in Indonesia. The other version
of this also happened. Yeah, I think they ate the
hobbits man.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yeah, it sure seems like it.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
That's Homo Florenzi's right.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Yeah, I never know how to pronounce it.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
So anyway, Yes, hobbits are real. We're just gonna throw
that one out for you. Check out our earlier episode.
We mentioned this just a few minutes ago. Based on
the admittedly scant investigations so far, the jars do appear
to be some form of grave. They do appear to
be funereal. They appear to be ritualistic cemeteries. And we
(46:27):
know that the humans have always deified, worshiped, and feared
the dead right because death is the one certitude other
than being alive, that everybody has to go to it's
go through. It's quite universal. So maybe people in the
area were just following the same rules as other cultures,
(46:50):
making sophisticated monuments for their loved ones when those folks
passed away.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah, potentially, for sure. I found a Fox News article, guys,
that was from twenty nineteen that was discussing the number
of young persons, like remains of young persons that were
found in these jars, and it was something like over
over fifty percent of the humans that were found or
(47:17):
the remains that were found in these jars were i
think fifteen years old or younger, and a significant proportion
of those were children that either died at birth or
during birth, or you know, before they were born, those
kinds of things. Yeah, it almost seems like a way
to remember at least young people, but maybe not all
(47:40):
young people, right.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
Yeah, And then also we have to realize our sample
size is pretty small because it's based on just the
remains that were found. So as a counterfactual, it's completely
possible that someone that let's say these were graves, let's
say there were grave robbers, and they just had at
least enough of a moral compass, you know, not to
(48:05):
disgrace the remains of children.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
As possible that. I don't know if it's true.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Uh yeah, it's just to give you the actual quote here, guy,
instead of off the top of my head. According to
Fox News article, researchers found that over sixty percent of
the population at Site one, that specific Site one that
we mentioned earlier, was less than fifteen years of age,
and almost half of those died at the fetal stage
or in early infancy.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
Okay, yeah, and there does seem to be some sand
to that. We also know it's possible these were not
permanent graves. It might be a case where a body
was placed within a jar and was decomposed or laying
in state before it was moved to a secondary location.
Because our next question is inevitably going to be why
(48:54):
do not all of the jars have human remains?
Speaker 2 (48:58):
That's a great question.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
Yeah, I think it's a question.
Speaker 4 (49:02):
I mean, I had all different kinds of stuff in jars.
You know, the jar is not just for one type
of thing.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
I love that, jock.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah, did you guys see that there's this theory that
potentially the jars were used for almost it's not the
same thing. Some of the rights that have been around
for a long time, where humans either attempt to preserve
the squishy bits of a body after it's died, or
to remove the squishy bits so that all you have
(49:31):
is like bones.
Speaker 3 (49:33):
Right right leading up to usually in a process leading
up to a final phase of internment or incineration. Yeah,
we know that. I'm glad you mentioned this because we
know that in the royal tradition of Thailand's ruling family,
historically your body is cremated, but only many months after
(49:57):
your death, and your body will be moved from one
urn to the next until the final day of incineration.
And the belief is that this reflects the gradual transition
from the earthly world to the world of the spirits
or the heavens. So so totally possible. Also, I love
(50:19):
that point. Yeah. People keep all kinds of stuff in jars.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Yeah, God, I'm just gonna say, I've got my dog
that passed recently in a thing like that, just because
I want to have it around, you know. And I
can imagine that if you've got loved ones that passed,
you put them in one of those things until they're
ready for whatever the rights are you.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
Know, yeah, and maybe maybe waiting is part of the ritual.
It's yeah, it's tough because we do have to remember
these are real people, no matter how long ago, and
they did die. It's possible too that this became a
(51:02):
social flex, that this became an impressive thing to do well.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
I mean, surely these are innate things were not just
for everybody, right, I mean it would seem it's almost
like tantamount to you know, the Pharaohs and having very
very ornate sarcophagus sarcophaguy or whatever, and like you know,
the Pyramids and all of that. It would it would
certainly seem that if there were versions of these there
were for like you know, the plubs or whatever, that
(51:28):
they would be significantly less ornate. I mean, you know,
when my mother passed away, like to get anything beyond
just like the most basic of urns is very expensive
even today.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
But there's so many of them, you I don't know,
act so many places.
Speaker 3 (51:44):
I don't know. I think it's yeah, I think it's
more a function of this is the normalized way to
commemorate the dead or to process that that passage. But
there's also you know, I love that we're pointing out
the common misconception about ancient Egypt. Not everybody got a pyramid.
(52:06):
It was a very one percent thing for those guys,
and it was dare I say, a pyramid scheme?
Speaker 4 (52:15):
Wow? All right, a lot of work for one one individual.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
Yes? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Have we done a full episode about pyramids and like
the theories of like energy usage and battery storage and
all the stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (52:30):
I don't know if that's only come up in other conversations,
but i'd have to look.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
Right, lay lines a couple.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
Videos specifically with water and like us it. I don't
I've been I've been going down some YouTube rabbit holes
about pyramids and I want to talk about it with
you guys at some point.
Speaker 4 (52:46):
Or going energy.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yes, I I I love it. I will also, without
hesitation and without apology, reuse that pyramid scheme joke because
I really like it.
Speaker 4 (53:00):
Make it too.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
So it is possible then that if this were a
normalized social thing, people might begin planning for their demise
right the same way, you know, the same way people
build a taj mahal, or they plan a graveyard or
grave plot before their time. This we know this would
(53:22):
have happened generation after generation but we will probably not
have the answers we hope we do. But this is
why we need your help. This is a UNESCO World
Heritage Site. It is one of the most important in
the area, and it got the ever loving Christ bombed
out of it over and over again. Imagine if all
(53:46):
the bombs in World War Two were just dropped on Stoneheinge.
Speaker 4 (53:51):
That's insane, I mean, and that's accurate, Ben, because this
this is a very small, geographically small part of the world.
Speaker 3 (53:59):
Yeah, yeah, it's this is what we wanted to open
with and to close with. The Plane of Jars fell
victim to bombing. Even today, there are areas of the
plane that are full stop unsafe, even for the rats,
even for the rats that are trained to figure out
the bombs, you know what I mean. Sometimes the rats
(54:20):
just turn around and say, like, I'm not paid enough
for this.
Speaker 4 (54:24):
Yeah, oh yeah, I've no amount of cheddar is worth this, Chad,
of course it's scheddar.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
Yeah, well, I know, I don't know if I'm trying
to get this out, guys, Sometimes the numbers get skewed
in a way that makes you or makes me feel like, oh,
that's not that big a deal. But you read something
like there were sixty three accidents in twenty twenty one
where there was unexploded ordinance that went off and maimed or.
Speaker 4 (54:49):
Killed people, right, twenty twenty one, Yeah, which reported exactly.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
So like immediately when you see that number, you're like, oh,
that's not that many. Maybe that's not that big of
a deal. Oh it's a huge freaking deal.
Speaker 3 (55:03):
It definitely is, because, as we mentioned previously, from nineteen
sixty four to nineteen seventy three, as part of what
is conventionally called the Cold War or the Secret War,
the US military dropped more than two million tons worth
of bombs over this country in secret, with the idea
(55:25):
that doing so would prevent the spread of communist forces. Again,
very Cold War, very Domino theory of hegemony. The CIA
stepped in to radicalize and train anti communist forces pulled
from local tribes like Mong tribes, and the whole thing was,
(55:46):
let's disrupt supply chains to communist Vietnamese forces. Before you
think we're getting too political, folks, please remember Dwight Eisenhower
is the guy who greenlit this, the CIA activity and
the whole shebang, And then the next several presidents, regardless
(56:06):
of their political ideology, were fully on board with doing this.
They just made it more extreme. Kennedy, Linda Johnson, Richard Nixon.
They may have had public performance differences in their speeches,
but when they got to the closed door of the
Oval Office, they all co signed on continuing these programs.
Speaker 2 (56:29):
Yep, it's messed up. To look at a map too.
If you go back and watch some documentaries about the
Vietnam War, you can see Dnang, which is one of
the main places that troops were deployed from. You can
if you just look at the map, you can see
how they would send aerial attacks to the north towards
northern Vietnam where they were going to drop those bombs,
(56:50):
and they would just fly right over Laos, which is
basically a strip next to the strip that is Vietnam,
and then hang or right as they're going over where
this plane is the plane of jars, and it's just
where they were dropping bombs.
Speaker 3 (57:05):
And it's horrifying, horrifying, and it's true. It's also it's
a heartbreaking thing for humanity overall. Because of this activity,
humanity has prevented itself from solving some ancient mysteries, from
(57:25):
doing real research that tells humans where they come from.
That's why most of the vast area containing the jars
today is off limits to the public. You can visit
like seven sites. I think Site one is probably the
most fascinating because it has a specific and unique type
(57:48):
of jar, a limestone jar. At Site one, who knows
how old it is. It has a bass relief carving
of something that looks like a hybrid between a human
being and a front why. Okay, no one knows. It's
just one of those ancient things that we could have
figured out if we could just stop bombing each other.
Speaker 2 (58:10):
Yep, look up the Victory Cup and plane of jars.
There's all kinds of amazing individual jars like that, and
just the whole thing itself. It's been a fascinating episode, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (58:23):
We hope. So we also hope you can solve it.
Tell us what's going on if you happen to be
on the ground, if you are an ancient giant or
Eldrich Bean, who has a good explanation for why you
would get in a situation where you have to build
these gigantic stone cauldrons. We want to hear from you.
(58:43):
We hope you find this investigation fascinating as well, maybe
so much so that you give us a couple stars
on your podcast rating program of choice.
Speaker 2 (58:53):
How about five five?
Speaker 3 (58:55):
If you're choosing stars, please choose five. We try to
be easy to find one.
Speaker 4 (59:00):
It's right. You can find us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff,
where we exist all over the Internet, your Internet platform
of choice, including x FK, Twitter, as well as Facebook,
where we have our Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy,
and on YouTube where we have video content gloor for
you to enjoy. On Instagram and TikTok. However, we are
Conspiracy Stuff Show.
Speaker 2 (59:19):
We have a phone number. Put this in your phone
right now as a contact. Call it whatever you want,
maybe the dark OVI a good one. Call one eight
three three std WYTK. If you do choose to call it,
you will hear a familiar voice and then a beep.
After that point, you've got three minutes to leave a
voicemail message. Just make sure you give yourself a cool
(59:40):
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Speaker 3 (59:50):
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Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Nolan.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
They call me Ben. We are joined as always with
our super producer Andrew TryForce Howard. Most importantly, you are here.
That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.
Featuring Triforce's cat astrid. We love mysteries. We hope you
dig mysteries as well. Tonight's episode takes us across the
(00:51):
Pacific to Southeastern Asia, specifically to a place most people
do not visit, Laos.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
It's a bit of a history mystery. Euh mm hm
oh Yescoby and the gang would be on board.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Oh, and it's an exciting one because there's so much
stuff to ponder within this topic, and there's a lot
of history for us to discuss as well, just as
Ben is alluding to, just with the history of the
country and especially with United States involvement.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yes, just so, the recent history of Laos is intensely troubled,
and we'll get into that as well, most Americans in
the crowd tonight. If you think a Laos, you're probably
thinking of it through the lens of the Vietnam War.
And you're probably thinking of Laos and the Vietnam War because,
(01:40):
as Matt mentioned, during the Vietnam War and during the
Cold War, the United States planted thousands of fatal land
mines that remain a danger to anybody in the area
in the modern day.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
So they didn't just go back and remove them all
as a courtesy. No, no, man, that's bad form for us.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
True story. A couple of offins figured out how to
train rats to hunt the land mines.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, yeah, But I mean there's also the ordinance that
just fell from the sky right when when planes were
flying over Laus. I mean, but we're talking about and
it's hard to understand the amount of unexploded ordinance that
is just existing.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
There, millions of tons, not all of it purposely dropped
there on a sort of loose change out of the
pocket scenarios. But the problem with that is for someone
walking around, it doesn't matter whether or not the bomb
was put there on purpose, it will still explode.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yes, because most of it is that term unexploded ordinance
right where it's it's just they are waiting.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
And despite this lens, we do have to acknowledge there's
a lot more to this country to what is called
Laos today. It's ancient, hidden history. And tonight, folks, we
are hoping you will join us on an ongoing endeavor.
Maybe you can help us figure out a question that
(03:14):
has baffled investigators for centuries, if not millennia. Why are
there so many giant stone jars?
Speaker 4 (03:23):
It's a good question when we will likely answer after
a quick word from our sponsor. That was our cold open.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Here are the facts, all right, what do we know
about Laos? If you're being fancy or you work at
the UN the technical name for the country is the
Lao People's Democratic Republic or Loo PDR. And it's a
fascinating place. It's in Southeast Asia. It is the only
(03:57):
country in Southeast Asia that does not have a coastline. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Wow, I never thought about it like that. I always
imagined a piece of it. I guess that is Vietnam
where it wraps around the western side of it.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Yeah, borders shared with Cambodia, China, Mian Mars Slash, Burma,
Thailand and Vietnam. It's fascinating and tragic that a lot
of the history of this region is unfamiliar to the
Western world. To be completely honest, I had no idea.
I don't think any of us had any idea how
(04:35):
far back human habitation stretches in this specific region.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Right. We know, for example, that the oldest skull in
all of Southeast Asia was discovered in northern Laos. The
Tampya Ling Cave holds human remains, the date back at
least forty six thousand years.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah, nuts, pretty impressive. Also, it's the perfect passing ground
between multiple civilizations. It kind of reminded us of the
role that Eurasia played with the old Silk Road. Right,
you're between these great empires, you become a transit point,
(05:19):
you know. And Laos was in what we call Laos today,
was in that situation. Civilizations from India and China, other
nearby regions, they all pass through at one point or
another in very ancient history, even before these civilizations would
be called China or India, they made contact and they
(05:42):
contributed at times violently to the modern day Laos.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, man. And there are all kinds of just incredible
artifacts that you can find there are well, you guys
tell me. In my research online, I found that it's
pretty difficult to get some of the websites for the museums,
like the more local museums that exist in places in Laos.
(06:09):
It's hard to get those websites working really well for
me and to see the actual imagery and the actual
artifacts that are in museums and places there. But you can,
you can find a couple and some especially around the
stuff that we're going to be talking about today. But
there are things that go back to this era that
(06:29):
goes back millions of years up until eleven thousand years ago,
which we're just we just mentioned oldest skull. It was
like forty what forty six thousand years ago.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
And it's such a diverse regions here because I think
a lot of people, myself included, might not have realized
that it's like its own kind of crossroads of civilization,
especially being such a tiny geographical, you know area.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, But but the whole point is the we've talked
about this before. The stuff that sticks are that humans create.
What's the thing that sticks around the best stones stones?
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah, we're talking about the police to scene aka street
name ice ages.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah, the mammoth times.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
They were mammoth times indeed, and people will argue there
were giants in those days.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Oo ooh, which is really cool when you think about
the at least the story surrounding today's.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
And the roots of modern day laus come about. In
I would say thirteen fifty three CE or so, a
warlord named Fa Gum declared himself the king of Lanzhong
million elephants. That loosely translates to also side note, we
(07:54):
are clearly not native speakers. We are going to tangle
with some words that were will do our best to pronounce,
and if we're ever in a tough spot, we'll spell
it out for you so you can search on your
own for sure.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
With Ben, you helpefully pointed out off air that I
believe the X sound is sort of a Shia kind.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Of yeah song song.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
Yeah, it's good to know.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
It depends on this our level best, Yeah right, It
depends on your your translations, your linguistic mileage may vary.
The Kingdom was initially a vassal state of a civilization
in nearby Cambodia. It split into three different parts in
sixteen ninety four. It was overtaken by the Thai or
(08:39):
Siamese civilization gradually, piece by piece, such that it became
a vassal state of the Siamese civilization in eighteen eighty five,
which is crazy because it's recent, right more or less?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Right, Well, yeah, it goes, it gets even crazier and
laws where they can getting invaded. I think it's one
of the major problems of existing in that cool spot
where you get influenced by all these you know, big empires.
But those big empires often have plans ideas about expanding
territory and you just happen to be right up against.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Them, right, it's that crossroads elements.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah. Maybe another way to say it is you can
meet a lot of people at an interstate gas station,
but also you can meet a lot of people at
an interstate gas.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Station sushi glory hole. Sorry, have you guys heard that
song yet?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yes? Okay, heard or experience?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Yeah, yeah, it's not what you're thinking.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Guys, Wait, where are you going? Hear us out.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Hear us out, hear us out. So if you look
at modern lout like to your earlier point there, no,
you'll see it is a fairly new thing. As we
record this evening. Experts are still working to learn more
about the story of this region. It is often described
as being forgotten. It is one of the least explored
(10:09):
countries in this part of the world, if not on
the planet overall.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
And that's not in any what we're going to get to,
but in any small park because of some of this
stuff we're talking about today, like all of these things
left behind by the US that are not particularly conducive
to exploration, you know, lest you get blown up.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Oh yeah, that unexploded ordinance has had a major effect
on so many aspects of the country, whether it's from
economic expansion to being able to dig in the ground
for you know, at these amazing sites because you've got
to get them cleared first.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Probably a little bit of an issue with tourism, you know,
I mean.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Which is the fastest growing legal industry in the country.
Of course, a couple of caveats there for the astute listener,
and then check out our future episode on the troubled
border of Mianmar. But with this we know that the
modern Laos is a somewhat recent thing. The actual name,
the term for these three different kingdoms was coined by
(11:13):
French colonial forces. They in United Lao Kingdoms in the
region under the rule of French Indo China back in
eighteen ninety three, so again pretty recent in the grand
scheme of things, primarily due to the consistent interference of
foreign powers. Laos is a country with a lot of problems.
(11:36):
We actually, you know, we talk about this sometimes on air,
but we actually may not be able to go to
Laos after this episode. They're a little bit touchy. The
ruling Communist government is constantly accused of corruption. Poverty is rife,
crime is as widespread as the bombs, which are relics
(12:02):
of you know what is sometimes called the Secret War,
which took place around Viadam.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, oh my gosh, the nineteen sixty three, sixty four
to seventy three, those are the years when those bombs
were dropped, and it was the Secret War. This is
mentioned and almost hinted at in a lot of the
popular i would say, graphic novels and some of the
movies and TV shows that we like a lot, but
just this concept of what the United States was saying,
(12:31):
like there you can hear quotes of then President Kennedy saying,
you know where in allows for peaceful reasons. It's all
peace baby, he said it, just.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Like that Barian.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah. Yeah. And then just for the result to be
you know, minds and cluster bombs.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah, the result is that allows today this evening is
in fact the most bombed country in modern history, per
cap But if you are fortunate enough to visit, just
remember this. First off, never talk politics in a foreign country.
Not to be like the fun police, but be very
(13:11):
careful here. And then secondly, if you see a sign
that says don't walk on the grass, you should can
believe it.
Speaker 4 (13:19):
Chicky want to you can't want to tread lightly, Well,
that's so maybe not tread at all, probably best in
not tread at all.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
If you want to learn more about that stuff, just
we'll throw to an article real quick in the Guardian.
You can read something that was written in April of
twenty twenty three titled the fifty year Fight to clear
US bombs from Laos. And it is just tragic to
hear the stories of children, little little kids in school
(13:47):
being taught specifics about types of ordnance so that they
can recognize even the tip of a piece of something
that's you know, stuck out of the dirt.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
These yeah, these evil relics of American activity in the
Vietnam War, when the US was bobbing Laos, when there
were incursions in Cambodia as well. In Laos alone, hundreds
of people die or get maimed every year. We're talking children,
missing limbs. We're talking people people walking through a place
(14:19):
that they have walked through for decades, making the wrong
step and becoming obliterated. If you want to read a
slightly more positive spin on this, do check out a
Smithsonian article by Danny Lewis from twenty fifteen, which is
all about how giant rats have been taught to sniff
out these land mines. That's at least a positive spin.
(14:40):
I'm always looking for those.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Do they go in, Is that like their final mission
when they find a cluster bomb? Or do they just alert? Sorry,
I'm just imagining alert jumping on it.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah they're not. They're not. Yeah, they're not suicide jockeys.
Are They're also pretty to train?
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
That makes sense.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah, checks out, especially if you're given the life span
of a rat. Story for a different time, right.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
But there are cool groups out there, like the Mind's
Advisory Group that are specifically attempting to clear large areas, right,
but I think it oh Man. In that article from
the Guardian, they're saying it at the current pace, it
would take one hundred years.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
To clear it.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yes, it's absolutely correct. Unfortunately, and the endeavor to clear
the country of unexploded ordinance is dramatically underfunded because it
simply does not exist in the zeitgeist for a lot
of people who would donate to a charitable cause. Kind
of similar to how only the fuzzy animals that are
(15:49):
endangered get saved, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
It's true the cute ones.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, what about those pangolins, Man, come on.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Gross get rid of them.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
I could see.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
I'm just joking.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
So if you are I like that note, I could
see in a world without pangolins, they're on the way. Yeah,
I want to save them too. If you are again
fortunate enough to explore Laos firsthand, you're going to meet
some of the coolest people around, some of the nicest
people who have some of the most kick ass food ever.
(16:22):
You were also going to encounter ancient mysteries that have
baffled people for millennia. One of the most famous, the
Plane of Jars. I can't believe we're finally getting to this.
This has been a hobby horse. I've never seen.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Them well me neither well outside of the Internet, of course.
But it's I'm sure it doesn't do justice because it guys,
I'm sorry, I'm going to make an elden Ring reference.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
I just have to say, by all means, is it
that the jars with arms and legs that run.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Around, Well, specifically, it's imagery from the expansion that exists
where there are just fields that have these what the
jars that exist in that game. It feels like somebody
was aware of this topic, the plane of jars, and
put it into the game and came up with lore
(17:16):
about it. And it just when I'm looking at imagery
of the actual plane of jars that exists in the
world today, I go right to that imagery and elden
Ring because that's where I saw that very specific thing first,
just fields of these amazing looking jars.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
And that expansion is shadow of the rd Tree.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, I always think the Scdoo tree, which is a
weird name.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
For the Ohio tree. Yeah, we're not getting friends and neighbors.
If you go out to the hung Quang plateau of
northern Laos. You will see a relatively level area just
inundated with these huge a carved stone jars. Just like,
(18:03):
look at these things. Pull up your search browser of choice,
visit your local library. Sure, the French discovered it during
their colonial period, but everybody already knew these things were
out there. And the questions we're hoping to answer are one,
who built these? To why were they built? And three
(18:26):
why are they no longer being built today?
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Do you guys remember the pretty popular Christian band Jars
of Clay. H I don't know why it comes to mind.
I'm sorry, didn't mean to. What was a song about?
Like the Noah flood? Good fuck chans the flood. They're
kind of like Christian Creed. Wait, Creed was Christian Creed?
What am I talking about?
Speaker 3 (18:49):
We'll find out after a word from our sponsors. Here's
where it gets crazy, all right.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
First off, Jars of Clay was my favorite band growing up.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Okay, Jars of Clay was great. I was gonna say
that I thought that. I thought that was a bop.
It was one of those things called Yeah, it's one
of those. The song about the flood is one of
those bops where you don't need to speak English understand it.
The song structure is just amazing.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Ny Tail spins the yarn, and.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
We hope you can help us spin some yarn today.
There's not one plane of jars. They're like ninety known
instances of these things out there on the plateau, and
there may well be more because this is one of
the least explored countries in the area. Each site has
(19:48):
between one to four hundred carved huge jars cauldrons. Actually,
if you look at the pictures, they look a lot
more like cauldrons.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, yeah, it does. It looks like something could have
either been cooked in there or or you know, you
think storage as well as soon as you look at them,
which is really interesting. And I guess the other thing
that is kind of baffling when you look at them,
they are varying in their sizes. Right, Some of these
none of them are tiny, right, because they're almost four
(20:22):
feet The smallest one is about four.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Feet or three a meter, So yeah, exactly, So.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I mean that's not tiny. That's still a huge jar.
What are you gonna put in that jar? But others
go up to like nine almost ten feet mm hmm.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
Yeah, they're between one to three meters that's about three
point two eight to nine point eight feet. Shout out
to Namibia and the US, the last two countries who
refuse to do the metric system.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, because it's America.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
You are rock.
Speaker 4 (20:56):
From our cold, dead feet and hands.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Nobody wants to hunt big meter, you know what I mean?
We hunt big foot. That's right, that's right. Yeah. I
feel like I feel like we just all need to
take a plug of a big leak chew. Do you
guys remember that.
Speaker 4 (21:11):
When so cool my bubblegum chaw?
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, the candy cigarettes, oh man, idea.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
But these jars amazing. And because there are varying sizes,
I think you immediately go, well, why would they Why
would there be such a difference between the large ones
and the small ones? Were they all for the same thing?
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Right? Yeah? Why the variation upon the theme? The bottom
is always larger than the top. They are all cylindrical.
They all basically do look like cauldrons. Some are not
in great shape, obviously. Some of them have lids. Most
have like a carved rim. You could imagine a lid
(21:57):
being And it reminds me of our discussion on the
mystery of non module. These are megalithic structures. At some
point in ancient history, a bunch of people who had
a lot of other stuff to do put a ton
of time and energy into building these curious structures.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Matt, you're spot on. I picture the jars from elden
Ring instantly in my like that. It's just that they're
the perfect size, perfect level of ornate kind of attention
to detail carved into the outside. These probably didn't sprout
arms and legs and kick your ass, but they in
my mind, they look very similar.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
There's definitely some inspiration from the these sites and there Ben,
as you were saying, they're scattered like pretty much all
over this area. There are three main sites though, right
if you like, if you go on a map or something,
you'll discover Site one, Site two, Site three, which are
just larger collections of them. But one of the other
(22:57):
things that was discovered is that these jars exist under
the ground too, in a lot of places. So it's
not just the ones you can see above ground, which
look incredible. There's also a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Buried, yes, yeah, buried, forgotten, unexplored. We kicked some stats
already on the jars themselves, and their structures. But what
we need to understand is this is one of the
most important prehistoric sites in all of human history. Add
to this evening, no one really knows what those human
(23:35):
ancestors were doing when they built this stuff. We've got
some good guesses, but no one has proven it. We
don't know what inspired people to make these things. As
a matter of fact, it wasn't until twenty twenty one
that a coalition of researchers from LAOS in Australia managed
to date some of the jars. Not romantically like, they
(23:56):
figured out how old the jars are, and they did
this with a yes, bizarre technology that does not sound
like it should be real. It sounds like a move
in a video game. Optically stimulated luminescence.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Gotta tell you looked this up, guys, and I'm still
super confused. What we could say is from a super layman.
That's me standpoint. It is it is testing when the
last time specific like minerals were exposed to sunlight, and
(24:33):
it does it in a way that is super sciencey,
And my brain hurts when I read some of the sentences.
So I don't even know if I'm gonna try i'll
read I'll read it to you from geosciences. It's optically
stimulated luminescence dating or optical dating, provides a measure of
time since sediment grains, so specific grains we're talking about
(24:56):
here were deposited and shielded from further light or exposure.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
M This uh, this makes use of electrons that are
trapped between different crystalline structures of certain.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Sure, sure, I just don't get it.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
It's just about the grains.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
You'll mess with the grains, yes, absolutely, with the brains.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I just I think it's just hard for me to
understand how I love the humans are so smart, just
figuring out how you actually measure that, right, Like, oh,
these are these electrons. There's pockets where these electrons where
stuff would be filled inside if it were exposed, but
it's not. It was under this jar for this number
of years roughly.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
I that's that's one of those things where first off, yes,
thank you to the humans, and then secondly, someone obviously
lost their mind figuring this out.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
You know what I mean, I've got eureka, I've gotten mad.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Yeah, someone's marriage got ruined over a valence band obsession. Dude.
That's where it happened well, so thank you, Thank you
boffins for doing this. This research is fascinating. You can
you can read the statements from the folks who leveraged
this to solve the mystery. That's people like doctor Louise
(26:28):
Schwan from University of Melbourne. That's Associate Professor douggled O'Reilly
from a and U Australia National University and doctor tonglith
Lone Colt from the Loud Apartment of Heritage. So they
figured out how to do this. What they found when
they applied this optically stimulated luminescence was that people had
(26:51):
been building these jars across multiple generations and they were
likely placed in their current positions from well forty to
six sixty BCE. These things pre date Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
By a long shot. And and it is just gosh,
it's baffling that we can even know that through that stuff.
But what's the other dating technique that was written about
in that same article. There's one in fizz Org about
that it.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
Was is there a reason that radiocarbon dating can't be used?
Or is like this I've never heard of this method?
I just thin guess I've always is.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
That what zircon UPB dating is. They mentioned that as
well as like a way to measure carbon.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
They definitely used radiocarbon dating as well. I think, what's
new about this and the other? Look, I can't pretend
to understand a lot of me you could. I think
this service to all of us. You know, zircon UPB
(27:56):
dating is definitely a thing. It's also the trital what
its right?
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Yeah, involving detritus.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
So so, guys, I looked at that one up to
this is what it says. Whole grain analysis by thermal
ionization mass spectrometer yields UPB ages with the greatest precision
but potentially poorest accuracy.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
What like like I didn't understand even where that sentence
is supposed to be split up.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Also, greatest, greatest precision, poorest accuracy means it will give
you the most specific result with the highest likelihood that
that result is incorrect exactly.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
But also it's because of the mixing of different age
components and PB lost domains.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
Ah, yes, let's talk about that.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Yeah, why didn't you say?
Speaker 3 (28:50):
So?
Speaker 4 (28:51):
That's a different color?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Where is jaw? We need your job?
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Rules? Shall start this out you'll get it done, you know,
I think the material science they are. One of the
fascinating points to raise is that these jars are not
uniform in their composition. You'll find limestone, sometimes sandstone, granite,
a combination thereof Most are sandstone. But the fascinating scary ones,
(29:22):
the ones at site one. Those are limestone. And what
it seems to indicate is a valuable clue the sculptors
were likely working with whatever material they can find nearby.
You can trace some of these stones to nearby quarries.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
But they're not that nearby, right, which is a whole
other thing.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Yeah, they're longer than you would imagine, similar to nan medal.
But what I think it shows us is that people
were working in service of an idea, a greater concept
or cultural trend. So if you want to make these
cauldrons or these jars for some reason, and you don't
(30:02):
have the sandstone nearby, then you grab the granite or
the limestone.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
You don't have the sandstones.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Do you know how many?
Speaker 3 (30:11):
That sounds good? I think we keep it.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, do you know how many were made out of quarts? Guys?
Speaker 3 (30:16):
No?
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Zero? At least according to according to plane Dash of
dash Jars dot Org.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Yes. Yeah. Also the Crystal Skulls are a hoax, unfortunately.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
But the vodka is a thing that exists, the vodka,
Crystal Skull vodka. And it's likes company here, it's somebody
famous as company.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Somebody it's Dan Ackroyd.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Sorry, it's Dan Akroyd's company. Is a big old ghosty guy.
He's really into conspiracy stuff.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
He's got a show too, or he had.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
He did pretty good. He's an odd cat.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Yes, also Canadian. You like how I added that in
italics at the.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
End, not mutually exclusive, necessarily being Canadian and being an
odd cat. But you know, there's a Venn diagram in
there somewhere.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
I think I I think I could listen to him
talk like maybe all day, just some of them. His
accent is just so.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
The King of that played and Tommy Boy, he was
like the Muffler King of.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
I forgot he was in Tommy Yeah he was. Anyway,
Congratulations Dan, is what we're saying on all your success,
On all your success, big fans. We also have to
mention that in these structures you can find human remains.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
And that's the lead.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah, that's yeah. They probably veried a few, But that's
that's our other big clue. Right, So let's go to
something we teased earlier, our our immediate questions, who built this?
Why if one ask who built it, we have to
look at the folklore, right, ask the people on the ground.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Yeah, let's and has it that a race of giants,
you love, a giant story ben potentially inhabited the area,
and we're ruled by a king by the name of
Kun Chung who fought a very long and ultimately victorious
battle against an enemy.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah. Yeah, And why did he need all those jars?
He's a big old giant. Why are they just all
over the place.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
What do you do after you have won a battle
against a enemy? Well, in Chunk's case, you you make
a lot of rice wide.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
That's how you replenish your chi in the RPG version
of this story, right, yeah, flask or whatever you gotta.
You gotta re up that those hps get that lao high.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Maybe it's uh strategically placed supplies during the battles and
stuff like reach around.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Yeah okay, yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
This is all this is made up in my mind.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Sorry, this is headcannon for us. So maybe the maybe Further,
the reason that all these jars are broken open and
strewn around is because they kept drinking the rice wine
and forgot to replace it at some point. Right, So
maybe like like after a rager house party, you know,
(33:21):
you walk into the back deck and there are just
tons of empty miller like hands or something.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Or you go into the fridge and someone's left an
empty carton of oat milk in there, and you just
fly into a rage. You know who it was? It
was the kid? The kid did it?
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Okay? Oh no, I feel like you're coming from some
first hand experience in that one. Nope, Okay, I'm.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
Venting a little bit. So nobody likes to see that.
Nobody wants to see an empty you know yo yoa
bag hardboard thing. No, it's no good.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
We you guys know, I drink a lot of strange
beverages and juices and that they I know what you're
talking about. Because let's say you get a jar of lemonade,
right yeah, and there's the one swig left in the body.
Nobody wants why did you do that?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Come on, dude, well, let's talk about other possible uses
of this these jars because we can, I tell you
where my mind went to please do and I saw
it mentioned in a couple of places. What about ancient techniques,
techniques for food storage and.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
For fermentation exactly right.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
I don't know why, and I know this is not correct,
but I imagine the way to create kim chi if
you're if you're doing it in some of the older
ways and literally bearing it, burying it for fermentation purposes.
I'm imagining using some kind of vessel like that, not
for that specific food, but for something like that.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
I mean, there's all kinds of other like East Asian
cultures that will wrap things in, say like banana leaves
and bury them in the ground. Like you know, there's
all kinds of examples of what you're talking about, Matt.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Also, fermentation is something that humans would be figuring out
around this time, and fermentation was a global technology because
everybody had to figure out how to keep food edible.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Right yeah, and stuff to drink right right.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Which would go to the second idea or the third
idea here, which would be storage of rain water for instance,
or storage of something and that all jibes.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
I propose an additional possibility for these jars about clay.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Yes, wait, are you of Clay.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yes, No, that answer is world's apart, my friend.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
Sorry, I never made a beast flood. That one kind
of broke through Secondler Radio flood. I don't think I
ever gotten around to the rest of our catalog.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yeah, they have an album coming out with Dan Ackroyd
and jaw Rule.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
I can't wait.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
What Ario It's called Jaws of Clay.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
That's too good, Ben, It's terrible.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Up a little bit.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
It was so good.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Throughout, joy in my mouth and my heart.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
I could handle it.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
If only we had our own set of gigantic stone jars.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
It's not too late, man, let's let's let's together.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
That's the spirit, and we have to remember that folklore
always carries with it some version of the truth. We
saw this in earlier giant stories like the c Tech
check out our episode on that spoiler. We figured out
what was going on. Maybe here we take a break
for a word from our sponsors, and then when we return,
(36:54):
we ask why build this? Like why why? We We
seriously still don't really know why people why people were
building this giant or human? And you're right, no, well,
(37:17):
I love a giant story, but we do know there
was a little bit of research up until like the
early nineteen hundreds.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
Yeah right, and that's mostly by French academics, primarily one
in particular, a geologist named Madeline Kolanie, who excavated a
cave at one of the first French discovered discovered sites.
I guess, I mean, yeah, it's about claiming things, you know,
named as you put it, Ben in a burst of creativity,
(37:46):
site number one, like the Blur song. You know, it's
like a song number one, the Woo who one and
Kilani explored another six or so sites that contained these jars,
and for decades her work was kind of seen as
the best Western not like the motel chain exploration of
the sites and motivations behind building these structures. She kind
(38:07):
of seems to be the authority for some time on
what was going on with these these structures.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
And just to be clear here, Kolani in her exploration
of Site one in particular, she discovered the human bones,
the teeth, the remains that humans were at one point
in at least some of these jars.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
As well as pottery sharks.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah, pottery, So like why do in my head these
are almost pottery themselves, But they're not. They are stone,
they're carved stone structures. If we know that at least
some of these jars contained human remains, don't we feel
like that skews like the even the way people would
think about them, potentially, because you don't accidentally have human
(38:49):
remains in fermenting jars or in rain dark Okay, no,
you're right, so, okay, okay. I feel like in my
if I was out there doing that, it would push
pretty hard towards Oh, these are funerary rights or this
is like some kind of burial.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Ritual, right right, Yeah, and kidding aside, Yes, people end
up dying in all sorts of strange places and nooks
and crannies throughout history and throughout the globe. But this
feels purposeful, right, This feels as though it was built
to store something. As we're saying, nol Kolani finds these
(39:31):
strong indicators and is on the right path, right, the
path toward discovery. Except the research got shut down and
then banned to the point where if you were a
professor or a boffin, a fellow nerd eggheader tourists trying
(39:52):
to check out these sites, you could meet the wrong
end of a sword, for sure, very nasty stuff. Oh yeah,
research was banned until nineteen ninety four, which is why
there are so many theories. You know, in the absence
of transparency, speculation only thrives. Maybe we start with the
(40:15):
craziest theory, what if there were giants? There's actually a
little bit of sandstone to this, as Noel would say.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
Yes, the idea that giant humanoids existed for some period
in that region and potentially learned how to quarry and
carve stone, and then also for some reason didn't leave
any material trace that they existed other than a bunch
of carvings on a plateau.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Well, it's weird, guys. Do you get images of Skyrim
at all? And the giants with the mammoths like walk
after them.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
They always smash me. But they're fun to you know,
they are gentle. But sometimes you just want to f
around and find.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Out with those you're going to turn into a stealth archer.
That's what Skyrim does.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
That's every time, every time. But I guess I just
have I have images of that in my mind where
you can imagine early versions of us, imagining the creatures
like us that are walking around, you know, that are
close to the size of a mammoth that would you know,
raise mammoths and use mammoths for whatever purposes, including getting
(41:22):
their milk like in Skyrim. But whatever you know, I
mean you can just I think you can imagine that.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Yeah, for sure. It's also here's the sandstone part about it.
Here's where the argument sounds less crazy. It's the old
Bigfoot question. We're raising, right, these huge things that were
somewhat like yet entirely distinct from humans. They existed, they proliferated,
they vanished, They left nothing behind except for the fact
(41:50):
that they're super into jars. There is a There is
a fascinating folkloric note because southeastern Asia was, during this
era of time, home to the world's largest known primate.
It has a very dumb and I would say somewhat
offensive name. It's full name, but it's real name. Just
(42:11):
call it Gigantipithecus. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Wait, has more than.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
That, Gigantipithecus Blackie.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Oh, like the Christopher Walk in King Louis and the
live action Jungle Book.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Yes, just so.
Speaker 4 (42:24):
He even writes it into the song.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Yes it is. That is a gigantipithecus, and well done.
This thing only became extinct in the late Middle plastine.
No one sure why it went extinct. Just like other
megafauna of the day, it was a big, probably not
super duper fast herbivore. But this guy's a real chonker,
(42:49):
ten feet tall, weighed over twelve hundred pounds. Shout out
again to the US hashtag never the metric system. And
so we know it's quite possible that human beings Homo
sapiens in this part of the world ran into this big,
not quite human thing out there in the forest, so
(43:12):
they would have to have legends about it.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Yeah, I mean, really, it really is this. If you
look at size comparisons of like theoretically what Gigantipithicus could
look like. From what we do know, it does appear
to be Bigfoot like between somewhere between Bigfoot and King Kong, right,
I mean it's huge.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Yeah. Yeah. It's also that the way it's depicted in
the live action Jungle Book, in the King Louis character,
it looks a lot more like an orogaton.
Speaker 4 (43:47):
Yeah, you know, and and the way it's depicted in
that movie would have been quite significantly larger than the
real thing as well.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
Right, Oh yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Yeah, well, and it's yeah, it's it's depicted often in
some of these what would you call these scientific illustrations
where it's like, theoretically, this is what it looked like.
For me, it looks like a cross between an orangutan
and a gorilla, like the way it you know, would ambulate.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
Yes, yes, it's got the big cheeks too on the front, I.
Speaker 4 (44:19):
Mean, but it is not kaiju size.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
No, no, no, definitely definitely a chonky chonky boy. But
so we know that humans may have interacted with this
mega fautum in this area at this time. It may
have informed folklore. But from everything we know about Gigantipithecus,
which is honestly not a lot, this primate did not
(44:46):
have the gumption to use tools. There's no record of
it doing those classic human moves, right, so we could
say that they that the humans at some point encountered something,
maybe even Gigantipithecus. Honestly, if we know humans, which we do,
the odds are that they are the reason that Gigantopithicus
(45:09):
went extinct.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, and you likely wouldn't have much time for fossils
to be created. It just depends on you if you
theoretically did have an interaction between let's say a large
group of Gigantopithecus that lived in that area. Then humans
come in. Humans figure out how to basically kill all
of them and eat them, and potentially eat them. There
(45:36):
really wouldn't be anything left. Those bones would go away
over that span of time.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Yeah, that's a scary point. I mean, check out the
story of those poor hobbits in Indonesia. The other version
of this also happened. Yeah, I think they ate the
hobbits man.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Yeah, it sure seems like it.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
That's Homo Florenzi's right.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Yeah, I never know how to pronounce it.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
So anyway, Yes, hobbits are real. We're just gonna throw
that one out for you. Check out our earlier episode.
We mentioned this just a few minutes ago. Based on
the admittedly scant investigations so far, the jars do appear
to be some form of grave. They do appear to
be funereal. They appear to be ritualistic cemeteries. And we
(46:27):
know that the humans have always deified, worshiped, and feared
the dead right because death is the one certitude other
than being alive, that everybody has to go to it's
go through. It's quite universal. So maybe people in the
area were just following the same rules as other cultures,
(46:50):
making sophisticated monuments for their loved ones when those folks
passed away.
Speaker 2 (46:57):
Yeah, potentially, for sure. I found a Fox News article, guys,
that was from twenty nineteen that was discussing the number
of young persons, like remains of young persons that were
found in these jars, and it was something like over
over fifty percent of the humans that were found or
(47:17):
the remains that were found in these jars were i
think fifteen years old or younger, and a significant proportion
of those were children that either died at birth or
during birth, or you know, before they were born, those
kinds of things. Yeah, it almost seems like a way
to remember at least young people, but maybe not all
(47:40):
young people, right.
Speaker 3 (47:42):
Yeah, And then also we have to realize our sample
size is pretty small because it's based on just the
remains that were found. So as a counterfactual, it's completely
possible that someone that let's say these were graves, let's
say there were grave robbers, and they just had at
least enough of a moral compass, you know, not to
(48:05):
disgrace the remains of children.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
As possible that. I don't know if it's true.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Uh yeah, it's just to give you the actual quote here, guy,
instead of off the top of my head. According to
Fox News article, researchers found that over sixty percent of
the population at Site one, that specific Site one that
we mentioned earlier, was less than fifteen years of age,
and almost half of those died at the fetal stage
or in early infancy.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
Okay, yeah, and there does seem to be some sand
to that. We also know it's possible these were not
permanent graves. It might be a case where a body
was placed within a jar and was decomposed or laying
in state before it was moved to a secondary location.
Because our next question is inevitably going to be why
(48:54):
do not all of the jars have human remains?
Speaker 2 (48:58):
That's a great question.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
Yeah, I think it's a question.
Speaker 4 (49:02):
I mean, I had all different kinds of stuff in jars.
You know, the jar is not just for one type
of thing.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
I love that, jock.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah, did you guys see that there's this theory that
potentially the jars were used for almost it's not the
same thing. Some of the rights that have been around
for a long time, where humans either attempt to preserve
the squishy bits of a body after it's died, or
to remove the squishy bits so that all you have
(49:31):
is like bones.
Speaker 3 (49:33):
Right right leading up to usually in a process leading
up to a final phase of internment or incineration. Yeah,
we know that. I'm glad you mentioned this because we
know that in the royal tradition of Thailand's ruling family,
historically your body is cremated, but only many months after
(49:57):
your death, and your body will be moved from one
urn to the next until the final day of incineration.
And the belief is that this reflects the gradual transition
from the earthly world to the world of the spirits
or the heavens. So so totally possible. Also, I love
(50:19):
that point. Yeah. People keep all kinds of stuff in jars.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Yeah, God, I'm just gonna say, I've got my dog
that passed recently in a thing like that, just because
I want to have it around, you know. And I
can imagine that if you've got loved ones that passed,
you put them in one of those things until they're
ready for whatever the rights are you.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
Know, yeah, and maybe maybe waiting is part of the ritual.
It's yeah, it's tough because we do have to remember
these are real people, no matter how long ago, and
they did die. It's possible too that this became a
(51:02):
social flex, that this became an impressive thing to do well.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
I mean, surely these are innate things were not just
for everybody, right, I mean it would seem it's almost
like tantamount to you know, the Pharaohs and having very
very ornate sarcophagus sarcophaguy or whatever, and like you know,
the Pyramids and all of that. It would it would
certainly seem that if there were versions of these there
were for like you know, the plubs or whatever, that
(51:28):
they would be significantly less ornate. I mean, you know,
when my mother passed away, like to get anything beyond
just like the most basic of urns is very expensive
even today.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
But there's so many of them, you I don't know,
act so many places.
Speaker 3 (51:44):
I don't know. I think it's yeah, I think it's
more a function of this is the normalized way to
commemorate the dead or to process that that passage. But
there's also you know, I love that we're pointing out
the common misconception about ancient Egypt. Not everybody got a pyramid.
(52:06):
It was a very one percent thing for those guys,
and it was dare I say, a pyramid scheme?
Speaker 4 (52:15):
Wow? All right, a lot of work for one one individual.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
Yes? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Have we done a full episode about pyramids and like
the theories of like energy usage and battery storage and
all the stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (52:30):
I don't know if that's only come up in other conversations,
but i'd have to look.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
Right, lay lines a couple.
Speaker 2 (52:36):
Videos specifically with water and like us it. I don't
I've been I've been going down some YouTube rabbit holes
about pyramids and I want to talk about it with
you guys at some point.
Speaker 4 (52:46):
Or going energy.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Yes, I I I love it. I will also, without
hesitation and without apology, reuse that pyramid scheme joke because
I really like it.
Speaker 4 (53:00):
Make it too.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
So it is possible then that if this were a
normalized social thing, people might begin planning for their demise
right the same way, you know, the same way people
build a taj mahal, or they plan a graveyard or
grave plot before their time. This we know this would
(53:22):
have happened generation after generation but we will probably not
have the answers we hope we do. But this is
why we need your help. This is a UNESCO World
Heritage Site. It is one of the most important in
the area, and it got the ever loving Christ bombed
out of it over and over again. Imagine if all
(53:46):
the bombs in World War Two were just dropped on Stoneheinge.
Speaker 4 (53:51):
That's insane, I mean, and that's accurate, Ben, because this
this is a very small, geographically small part of the world.
Speaker 3 (53:59):
Yeah, yeah, it's this is what we wanted to open
with and to close with. The Plane of Jars fell
victim to bombing. Even today, there are areas of the
plane that are full stop unsafe, even for the rats,
even for the rats that are trained to figure out
the bombs, you know what I mean. Sometimes the rats
(54:20):
just turn around and say, like, I'm not paid enough
for this.
Speaker 4 (54:24):
Yeah, oh yeah, I've no amount of cheddar is worth this, Chad,
of course it's scheddar.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
Yeah, well, I know, I don't know if I'm trying
to get this out, guys, Sometimes the numbers get skewed
in a way that makes you or makes me feel like, oh,
that's not that big a deal. But you read something
like there were sixty three accidents in twenty twenty one
where there was unexploded ordinance that went off and maimed or.
Speaker 4 (54:49):
Killed people, right, twenty twenty one, Yeah, which reported exactly.
Speaker 2 (54:56):
So like immediately when you see that number, you're like, oh,
that's not that many. Maybe that's not that big of
a deal. Oh it's a huge freaking deal.
Speaker 3 (55:03):
It definitely is, because, as we mentioned previously, from nineteen
sixty four to nineteen seventy three, as part of what
is conventionally called the Cold War or the Secret War,
the US military dropped more than two million tons worth
of bombs over this country in secret, with the idea
(55:25):
that doing so would prevent the spread of communist forces. Again,
very Cold War, very Domino theory of hegemony. The CIA
stepped in to radicalize and train anti communist forces pulled
from local tribes like Mong tribes, and the whole thing was,
(55:46):
let's disrupt supply chains to communist Vietnamese forces. Before you
think we're getting too political, folks, please remember Dwight Eisenhower
is the guy who greenlit this, the CIA activity and
the whole shebang, And then the next several presidents, regardless
(56:06):
of their political ideology, were fully on board with doing this.
They just made it more extreme. Kennedy, Linda Johnson, Richard Nixon.
They may have had public performance differences in their speeches,
but when they got to the closed door of the
Oval Office, they all co signed on continuing these programs.
Speaker 2 (56:29):
Yep, it's messed up. To look at a map too.
If you go back and watch some documentaries about the
Vietnam War, you can see Dnang, which is one of
the main places that troops were deployed from. You can
if you just look at the map, you can see
how they would send aerial attacks to the north towards
northern Vietnam where they were going to drop those bombs,
(56:50):
and they would just fly right over Laos, which is
basically a strip next to the strip that is Vietnam,
and then hang or right as they're going over where
this plane is the plane of jars, and it's just
where they were dropping bombs.
Speaker 3 (57:05):
And it's horrifying, horrifying, and it's true. It's also it's
a heartbreaking thing for humanity overall. Because of this activity,
humanity has prevented itself from solving some ancient mysteries, from
(57:25):
doing real research that tells humans where they come from.
That's why most of the vast area containing the jars
today is off limits to the public. You can visit
like seven sites. I think Site one is probably the
most fascinating because it has a specific and unique type
(57:48):
of jar, a limestone jar. At Site one, who knows
how old it is. It has a bass relief carving
of something that looks like a hybrid between a human
being and a front why. Okay, no one knows. It's
just one of those ancient things that we could have
figured out if we could just stop bombing each other.
Speaker 2 (58:10):
Yep, look up the Victory Cup and plane of jars.
There's all kinds of amazing individual jars like that, and
just the whole thing itself. It's been a fascinating episode, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (58:23):
We hope. So we also hope you can solve it.
Tell us what's going on if you happen to be
on the ground, if you are an ancient giant or
Eldrich Bean, who has a good explanation for why you
would get in a situation where you have to build
these gigantic stone cauldrons. We want to hear from you.
(58:43):
We hope you find this investigation fascinating as well, maybe
so much so that you give us a couple stars
on your podcast rating program of choice.
Speaker 2 (58:53):
How about five five?
Speaker 3 (58:55):
If you're choosing stars, please choose five. We try to
be easy to find one.
Speaker 4 (59:00):
It's right. You can find us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff,
where we exist all over the Internet, your Internet platform
of choice, including x FK, Twitter, as well as Facebook,
where we have our Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy,
and on YouTube where we have video content gloor for
you to enjoy. On Instagram and TikTok. However, we are
Conspiracy Stuff Show.
Speaker 2 (59:19):
We have a phone number. Put this in your phone
right now as a contact. Call it whatever you want,
maybe the dark OVI a good one. Call one eight
three three std WYTK. If you do choose to call it,
you will hear a familiar voice and then a beep.
After that point, you've got three minutes to leave a
voicemail message. Just make sure you give yourself a cool
(59:40):
nickname in let us know in the message if we
can use your name and message on the air. If
you've got more to say then can fit in a
three minute voicemail. Why not instead send us a good
old fashion email.
Speaker 3 (59:50):
We are the entities that bread every piece of correspondence
we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void
writes back, find us out here in the dark conspiracy
at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
Hosts And Creators
Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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