May 8, 2026 • 75 mins
In an increasingly secular world, people often look back on the past with a mixture of amusement and disdain: "Why," they ask, "would our ancestors really believe in fanciful things like demons, Gods, spirits and angels?" Yet in tonight's episode, Ben, Matt and Noel discover one strange trend that calls these assumptions into question: Why did so many ancient cultures across the world worship snakes, or reptilian-human hybrids? Is there a grain of fact to the legends of Snake Gods? What exactly is a Nāga?
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
A production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hello, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
All right, Parcelton, Matt, that's you, Matt, it's me Noel.
That was a Harry Potter reference.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you
are you.
Speaker 5 (00:43):
You are here.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.
So shout out to everybody's given me a hard time
about sibilants O Man podcast over the years.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
It's a feature, not a bug today, Man, thank you, nol,
I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
It was never a bug, to be fair, you're a
beautiful speaker. The word for today is ophiolotry. It's the
fancy term for snake worship. You want to.
Speaker 5 (01:09):
Unhind your jaw to get around that one.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Is a serious word.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
It's a mouth feel. It's a mouthful of mouth feel.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
And it's making me have all the feels because yeah,
snakes are fun and scary and people are freaked out
by them. And or sometimes worship them throughout history. Yeah,
of course, because we worship what we fear. That's a
gem you can take and use in hip hop later.
This is a fun one, folks. Tonight we are exploring
the origin of not Naga.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
God, but Naga.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
It's like those guys.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
I know, I worked way too hard on that show.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
That was good.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
No, I think it's it's fun counterpoint ben Naga. Yeah,
a different kind of worship.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah. Yeah, So riddle, is this what are the Naga?
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Well, in multiple religions originating outside of Asia, the Naga
and it's got a little line over the eight Does
that mean it's Niaga? Does it have a little meal
on it? It's more like a the Naga. They're a
semi divine race. This is you know, the in the
lore of half human, half serpent creatures said to reside
(02:11):
in the underworld.
Speaker 5 (02:12):
So kind of demons but vaguely demonic.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Well, and it varies widely because we're talking about multiple
versions of spirit spirituality that were around way before the
primary religions. We're talking about ancient Asia stuff, but also Buddhism, Hinduism.
I mean, it goes there's a lot.
Speaker 5 (02:30):
And of course you know, one belief systems demon is
another belief systems deity.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Right, yeah, shout out to the Ziti. And before we
get into this, Matt, we got to go to you.
You said you off air, you said ye had a surprise.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Okay, well let me just tell you the sequence of events.
This morning, around eight am, when I'm awake, I'm researching Naga.
I watch a video featuring this person, Rajarshi Nandi, who
wrote a book specifically about Naga. I decided, okay, this
is a lot of information. These are a lot proper
nouns of, you know, gods and how they're interconnected, and
(03:04):
especially if you look at Greek mythology, just the interconnectedness
and relationships within gods, and then how those are created,
Who begot who?
Speaker 5 (03:12):
The pantheons, the org chart of the gods.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Basic, it gets nuts with the Naga if you go
deep in it. So I went upstairs and I took
a little napsy about thirty minutes. Because there's something that
we have learned about in the past. If you study
something very hard, then you allow yourself to rest for
a moment. Once you awake, you will find often that
your mind has kind of put these things in an
(03:39):
order that's a little more helpful than the jumble.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Digested it a little bit. This is interesting, man, I
don't know this technique and is studying.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Okay, it's a studying technique I learned in college. Well
I did that. But the weird thing is, guys, this
some of the lore surrounding these naga is that they
will contact you, especially if you have a belief in
the the more godlike versions of the naga who have
been around, you know far before, man was I had
(04:07):
some weird dreams, you guys, featuring snakes. And my partner
while this is all happening, is out in the backyard
doing some landscaping, and she came across this adorable little
lady out there. I have a living, beautiful little snake
(04:28):
here that I'm going to take outside as soon as
we finish this intro. Probably hard to see.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Summons, and now you're just handling it like it's nothing.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
It's a sweet little baby. I don't want it to
get hurt. I'm gonna take it outside. But awesome little snaky.
I can't get the camera to focus.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
I see him there it is.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I just thought that was really interesting because a lot
of the things we're talking about today are about the
power of snakes in general, as well as these naga
you know, gods and goddesses.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, it's fascinating stuff, right. We know reptiles are a
huge part of the real economy, which is the natural world,
and this belief in nagas or this idea of snake
worship may be unfamiliar to many of us in the West,
but you need to realize that people, especially in Asia
(05:19):
and across the globe, honestly have worshiped snakelike beings for
thousands upon thousands of years. So our question becomes, what
are they exactly? Where did these legends originate from, what
is their providence? And could they have somehow could these
stories be somehow based in a kernel of fact. We'll
(05:41):
get into it right after the break. Here are the facts.
Oh my gosh, guys, reptiles humans have such a dial
reptile humans have such a decomplicated Yes, have such a deep,
complicated relationship with reptiles. Well before the modern Homo sapiens,
(06:06):
one of our primary demographics on this show hit the scene.
Like we know, reptiles were well established are before the
rise of the primates. They come into play. They stroll
on to stage about three hundred and fifty million years ago,
during what we call the Carboniferous period. So it makes
sense that folklore and spirituality surrounding reptiles has always been
(06:31):
a part of human culture.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
And also makes sense that there is a historically driven
phobia of snakes because these little guys, while they might
appear innocuous, certain ones deliver a bite that'll kill a horse,
you know, stop at dead in its tracks, and of
course early man experience.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
That the hard way.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
So, you know, fear of snakes makes a hell of
a lot more sense than my completely irrational fear of birds.
You know, maybe mine dates back to tara actyls or
something I don't know, but like my mother deathly afraid
of snakes, a visceral fear of snakes that would cause
her to practically faint, you know, cy.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Fear, Yes, especially because oftentimes if you encounter a snake
in the wild, they are very much hidden. True, you
couldn't really see the coloration on the one that I
just had now, but if you looked down on the
ground and it was not moving, you would not see
it on the ground because of its coloration. That's a
(07:30):
very common thing, right, And the way they coil, they'll
get under foliage leaves, things like that, and hide in
a lot of places in jungles. They're in the trees
just kind of waiting, does.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
Drop down on you, jump, scary you bite you in
the face.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Look, not trying to freak anybody out about snakes, but
to your point, Matt as well, you might be walking
around the wild and just see a snake but not
be able to identify the coloration. So therefore the kind
of umbrella a reaction would be fear like because you
don't no red.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
And black friend of Jack. Red means you'll kill a fellow.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Which requires further inspection, is what I'm saying though.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
And you know that hidden nature, though, I think, runs
pretty deep when it comes to the lore, the myths,
the legs surrounding snakes. Sometimes you might even you might
not even know and there's a snake around you. May
you may not know if someone is a snake, right
this concept, someone may be a hidden snake.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
A snake in the grass.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
They call you, Yeah, you're right, No, that's the like,
that's why these idioms exist. Now, if you are culturally
from what we call the West. The most popular myth
you encounter regarding reptiles is probably the story of Eve
and the Snake in the Garden of Eden.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
Great corrupter, the beginning of all things bad, Yes.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
But also Promethean, because we have to remember, the Christian
Bible ripped off a lot of pre existent delisions. Yeah,
so the snake is h the snake is an infiltrator,
the snake is acer. It is also a purveyor of
hidden knowledge. Again Promethean. Now, in this specific instance, our
serpent in the garden is the devil. And it's also
(09:11):
fascinating because it is a common trope for deities to
assume animal like forms, non human animal like forms when
interacting with human beings. Another example would be all the
hijinks Zeus gets up to, notably that time he transformed
into a swan and committed sex crimes.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Not good, bad lucks, Zeus, no Lyda and this kind
of a bad guy Zeus. You know, you know it's funny, though, Ben,
There's so many parts of the Bible that feel like
they're more diary entries, or they're meant to be describing
something that happened. But I just feel like to anybody,
whether you're like devoutly religious or not.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
The Adam and Eve story just feels like a story.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
It feels like a piece of mythology, not to be
taken literally, that it demonstrates something and these concepts, and
there certainly are.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
Parts of the Bible that feel more like history.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
And I'm not here to come down on either side
necessarily of like whether the Bible is true or not,
or you know what lens it's filtered through. That's obviously
a whole nother discussion. But to me, things like the
creation story and the fall of Man and all, that's
a feel like they were always kind of intended to
be these metaphors.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah, because it's it's interesting too, because, as we'll get
into it is the written Bible, in its many various forms,
is ultimately a transcription or interpretation of a far older
oral tradition. Right, So we knew that people were telling
each other's stories about serpents and reptiles far before somewhat
(10:43):
invented the word reptile, far before people were writing stuff down. Yeah, like,
these these myths are early attempts to explain the natural
world and the behavior of those non human animals. So
Some of it might sound outlandish or even silly in
the modern day, but we have to remember, as we
emphasized in a previous episode, that these function as a
(11:07):
way of modeling behavior in society. These are warnings about
the consequences of behaving incorrectly around snakes. So the idea
of bargaining with the serpent might feel like a fairy tale,
but the lesson hidden in there underneath the grass is
very much real. Don't mess with snakes. You might get bit.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
Don't do it, Matt.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
I just noticed, by the way. I think the reason
I keep saying reptile is because of your background. It's
very reptile. Mortal Kombat code it and I love it.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Are you thinking about the song? I always think about
the song?
Speaker 5 (11:39):
Which song by nine and Snails.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
The song that represented reptile on the Mortal.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
I don't remember he had a theme. He had walk
on music.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, hell yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
It's pretty killer. I remember it from the movie, the
Mortal Kombat movie, the original one.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
Is it Jock Champs.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Reptile boom Bom bom bom basically, But the thing is
too with Mortal Kombat. As any aficionado of fighting games
will know, it's kind of weird that you have to
push a certain button to block. Why can't just hold back?
Speaker 5 (12:15):
Hold back?
Speaker 4 (12:16):
But the thing about Reptile the character too, is he's
sort of masquerading the early versions of Reptile. He looks
just like they asked me. Probably it was just so
they could use the same character model.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
He looks just like sub.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Zero and Scorpion, only green. And it wasn't until he
would pull his mask down that he revealed his true
reptilian features and acid spitting characteristics.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
And I will posit to you, guys. Here's why I'm excited.
The pretentious reason I'm excited about the new Mortal Kombat film.
That's that's about to go live good. Yeah, it's an
iteration of these old myths that we're talking about. I
mean sneaks. Sneaks in particular, out of so many other reptiles.
They are fascinating because they are just so gosh darned
(13:00):
different from the mammles.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
I thought you were huge.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
They got no arms, they got no legs, slithery ropes, chok,
full of attitude, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
Still around.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
First thing, I remember, very long ago, one of the
first times I saw a snake and I was just impressed.
I was like, how do you get around? How do
you do? How do you do stuff?
Speaker 5 (13:25):
How do you do with this one snock?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah? Well then you try and hold one and you
just you see exactly how they get around. Muslims are fast. Yeah,
it's astonishing. I remember as a kid we caught a
rat snake once and tried to keep it around to
like we wanted a pet, and we thought it was
so cool, my sister and I. But that thing, it
was just too cunning, and it was able to lift
(13:48):
the lid off of the enclosure that we created for
it almost immediately.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Cunning is the right word. There's they're they're very sharp,
and they're very kind of sneaky, and.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
They're good at like plot like like like covert moves.
They can even like slither through a keyhole if you
let them.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
You know, they strength, They have very focused, very focused stats.
We would say if this were a video game, also
very little body fat. So yeah, it's just a slithery,
sinuous rope, but it is a very good rope and
it is very evolutionarily focused.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Is what could be more utilitarian than that?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
You know, a rope that can squeeze you to death
through sheer will and musculature.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Not to mention, bite your neck and also you know,
kill you dead. Lot going on with snakes, lot, lot.
It makes sense that they were so revered, is what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Of course, yeah, and we'll put because the you know,
it's fascinating that given given the reality that the reptile
was already a global phenomenon before humans began human ing,
it's not that surprising that early cultures who would ever
interact with each other had met reptiles and had deified
(15:05):
them to one degree or another, like plume serpents in Mesoamerica.
You know, you got the Egyptians, the Greeks, indigenous folks
in Australia, the Norse. All these cultures have serpent deities.
Sometimes they're wise and benevolent, right, they'll slyther in and
help you out.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
Was that a Harry Potter reference?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
And other times they are portrayed as agents of darkness,
evil and chaos.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
Ooh, you all go on for two seconds.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
I want to bring a little show and tell myself
I actually have a snake deity kind of shrine that
I worship right here in my little studio.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
You're right back.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Awesome, Yeah, Ben, I focused a lot on the mahav
Rata and what it says about the deities and you know,
stories and all of these things. It's very interesting how
it is across the globe and spans all cultures.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah. Again, that's that's one of our interesting parts here, Matt,
because it is is a thing that human civilizations, many
of whom never interacted with each other, all seemed to
independently agree was worth worshiping. No, there's still no serpent
myth as deep and as complicated and as strange as
(16:19):
the story of the Naga. So Nol sounds like you're back,
give us the show and tell.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Oh yeah, I kind of get.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
I did a little show and tell, not just a
show while you were talking about this is I don't know,
you guys can maybe help me name him, but he's
he's kind of a skeleton snake boy, a rainbow skeleton
snake boy who watches over my little cave here. But look,
when we were talking about it, looking at him the
way I have him positioned as sort.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
Of a high place, he is a little bit idle issue.
He's kind of got sort of an idle thing going
for him. So there you go. I guess I'm a
snake worshiper myself.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
We've all been there. You get in situations, right, So
let's focus on the Naga. Let's get into it. This
is a a race of basically lizard people. Sign us up,
you know what I mean. We are so on board
with this kind of stuff. The Naga have deep, deep
roots in Hinduism, Buddhism, and multiple other Southeast Asian religions
(17:14):
or belief systems. Naga in particular belief in them originating
from what we call the Indus Valley. The term itself
super old comes from Sanskrit. There's a lot of debate
about this. You're going to hear people say, well, the
word naga and Sanskrit just represents snake, but it may
also bean elephant, or it could be translated as naked
(17:39):
hairless animal.
Speaker 5 (17:40):
So it's that but a god.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
It's so weird because it's been around, this belief in
not for so long that it probably resembles Jin in
Islamic folklore, in that the Jin came to Islam via
pre existing to Timic traumatic beliefs. In the Middle East,
people probably worshiped something like the Naga, something like a
(18:07):
half human, half reptile thing, well before the rise of
things like Buddhism and Hinduism, which is nuts because those
are very old belief systems.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
That is a good point ben about worshiping the things
we fear throughout history, because you know, in early civilizations,
obviously weather was incredibly important for survival, but could also
annihilate your entire civilization. So it makes sense that people
would worship like thunder gods and you know exactly God
is of the hearth and all of that. These were
(18:39):
things that figured into survival and revering and worshiping these
little slithery you know, danger noodles is another way of
kind of protecting yourself potentially because maybe if you worship them,
they won't jump, scare you and bite you take you down.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, and let's imagine, right, religion aside. Let's imagine you
are in the Indus Valley thousands upon thousands of years ago,
and you see a little rope with an attitude. Right,
it's not always attacking you, but you know it can
some of them can kill people with their venom. You
also see what appear to be Marvel comics level superpowers,
(19:21):
they shed their skin, what they can, They could appear
to just kill themselves and rise from the dead. Also,
because they're ectotherms, they can intertrpre and then come back out.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
It's kind of going to dormant basically, right.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So of course you're gonna you're gonna
see these things and you're going to think of both
life and death. And it's nuts. This was so popular.
We know, hard archaeological evidence proves that circa twenty five
hundred BCE snake worship tile worship was prevalent in Indian
(20:03):
culture throughout South Asia.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah, and then they at least made appearances, right, They
played a big part, even if they weren't the focus
of worship or the thing that was being revered there,
there was a reverence for them a lot. I've seen
a lot of talk about an acknowledgment within some of
these texts that the reptiles were here before, Yes, as
in before the mammalian folks like humans walking around. So
(20:29):
there's this reverence for somehow wisdom or knowledge that existed
prior to us even existing on this plane.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Right, the antecedents of the Homo sapien knew well the reptile,
right and deified, worshiped, feared it, and definitely ate it
a few times. It's also it's also fascinating because there's
so much more about the Naga in particular, and the
Gin comparison is perfect because like the Jin, the Naga
(21:02):
have this complex social system and hierarchy. They have a king,
the Nagarasha, right, the King of the snakes. They can
be good or bad, just like Jin. They don't all
have the same religion. Just like Jin. You can see
how Hindu texts like the Mahabrata and the Piranhas in
particular Puranas excuse me, in particular, they depict these Nagas
(21:25):
as not necessarily always bad guys. Instead, they are powerful beings.
They're complex, yeah from earlier right, They're vast, like well, women,
they contain multitudes, they live underground, they live in aquatic domains.
They are the keepers of secrets, right, They guard treasure,
they guard sacred rivers and temples, and they will interact
(21:46):
with humans. And if you were cool, if you have
a good vibe, they'll protect you and they'll help you.
But if you're you know, dickish or somehow anti lestials, yeah,
then they will punish you and you will die.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Can I also just say we're gon We're gonna get
into this a little later, but just gonna throw this
out there in terms of like them coming to pay
a visit reptilians.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
Yes, just putting that, just just gonna drop that little
seed there.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
And exactly give credit to a friend of the show,
Jessica Breast, for the expression danger noodle.
Speaker 5 (22:17):
I did not invent that, and I think it's a
lovely way of referring to our bureau na friends.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
It's up there with trash banda for raccoons.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Because there's a really interesting story I was reading about
with Uh, and I don't know how to say any
of this correctly. Siddartha Guatama. Is that how you say that?
That's the like Buddha. There's a story of a serpent
king once Uh, once Siddartha achieved enlightenment, this serpent king
(22:45):
with like multiple heads came and guarded him as he meditated.
And it's this really there's it's depicted in several really
cool statues that you can find in several places in
the world, and that just it's a different vision of
a snake or even you know, a hydra. In this case,
when I see the multi headed snake, I think of
(23:06):
a hydra. I think of Greek mythology. I think of
other stories and video games and things I've experienced in
my life. But in this case, to see that it's
such a striking image and such an interesting concept that
one of these nagarajas would come and be a protector
of a higher spiritual being, in this case the Buddha.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
In Buddhism, the naga often do function as kind of
an sas or an elite guard for the Buddha, protectors
of Buddha's teachings, and often will be depicted helping followers
of Buddha as well. So if you reach oneness, you
don't have to fear the snakes in the grass or
(23:47):
the reptiles. They work for you. This also goes into
the protector aspect, which doesn't happen that much in the West.
The protector aspect is also evident in other modern day countries.
Bod I saw snake shrines when I had to go
to Thailand and Laos. Naga are associated with rivers quite often,
(24:09):
and this is a place with a lot of rivers,
and they're associated with fertility and reproduction, and it's this
fascinating Joseph Campbell esque study in duality because the serpent
is associated with water, the great bringer of life, but
also with destruction. So this is everything together as kind
(24:31):
of a combo meal of a deity. And I love
that we're mentioning the different forms because they are shape shifters.
They're literally shifty little guys. You know, sometimes humans with
snakes on their heads and necks. In India, they're usually
their aspect is usually going to be like that of
a cobra. The creepiest ones to me, guys, the creepiest
(24:55):
shrines I've seen, what I've been in the field are
mostly snake forms with a human head or a human face,
and it really creeps me out. I don't know if
you guys have seen those in person or in research.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
There's an elder ring boss that I think is in
the volcano manner that is like this giant, snaky dragon
guy with the creepy old man face, and it's terrifying
on so many levels. He also like pulls a sword
made of human limbs out of its own throat and
brandishes at you with human are arms.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
I can't remember his name, but he's a scary guy.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
But it did make me think it's Jeremy.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
It's definitely Jeremy or Steve. But it also made me
think of just dragons in general. We've got various depictions
of dragons. Some of them have arms and legs, some
of them are more slithery, snaky things with wings. But
so many dragons in mythology and in you know, our
legend and all that are the bad guys slay the dragon.
But then you have things like the George R. Martin
(25:56):
Songs of Ice and Fire, where you got your good dragons,
or you got your dragons that are defending the good
guys and dragons defending the bad guys, and they're more
of like a weapon as opposed to inherently good or evil,
you know.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
And then of course you have Flight of Dragons.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
Yeah, of course you do.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
How can we forget about dragons?
Speaker 5 (26:12):
Or dragon Heart?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Did you guys watch it yet? Watch it? Yet?
Speaker 3 (26:16):
It's on the list. I keep thinking about this whole
half snake half human thing and all the versions of it.
They you are correct, ben at least in my experience
of seeing that the human top, you know, almost like
a mermaid, but with a snake kind of thing, almost
not quite. There are ones though. They have an interesting mixture,
(26:38):
and it has to do with depictions of the cobra
and the unfolding essentially of that you know, behind of
the head, the.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Hood like this. Oh guys, look, I'm going full lizard man.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Oh crap, oh crap, no look, oh God saying it
struck me because what I saw in my mind is
I'm looking at older images and some AI slop on
these YouTube videos, you guys, people like attempting to depict
the legends and the Mahavarata. Terrible stuff with AI voiceover.
(27:13):
But it's okay, somebody.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
Fat generic dude voice.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
You know what I saw in my mind, and I
wasn't sure if I was wrong, and I I'm definitely
wrong when it comes to it, but when like, deep down,
but I am thinking about an image of King tutin Common,
the Pharaoh touton Common and some other depictions of pharaohs.
And if you look in your mind's eye and see
if you can remember a picture of King ty especially
(27:43):
like the golden statuesque version. But what is what is
around his head? It's a it's a head piece. But
look what what that head piece resembles. It looks like
eerily similar to what Ben just exactly and goes over
(28:04):
and around the way a cobra's hood does. And in
many of them there is a literal cobra that is
depicted on his forehead, on his third eye. So it
just makes me wonder, like I don't know enough, you know,
guy who doesn't know enough talking about this thing, But
just the iconic imagery of that makes you wonder.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Think about the the Oran from the Never Ending Story. Yeah,
an iconic snake image. It's just so conducive to emblematic
kind of use, you know what I mean, Like ur iconography.
You can twist it in all these shapes. You can
make jewelry out of it, can make a crown, you know,
or like whatever, like bracelets and all kinds of things.
It's just a really flexible literally and figuratively image.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, and shout out to Stargate. That film holds up
depending on which traditions you examined, and there are many
across the world. The naga, just in the East Asian
South Asian sphere, can also be huge sea serpents. They
can be dragons with multiple heads. We're saying is there's
no one form of a naga, and there is also
(29:14):
no single form or profile of actions seeing be good,
being be bad, to stay on your p's and q's,
and it's nuts.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
And we also have to remember these creatures, especially the
half man half snake versions the naga that's certing about,
are shape shifters. So they can be full snake, they
can be full human, they can they can go in
between and all around and even shape shift further, at
least according to a lot of the legends and the myth.
(29:44):
So it does. Again, guys, I'm thinking about our reptilian
episode that we did and some of that stuff. It's
feeling like it's there is a reason some of the
other myths that we may talk about today originated. Again
the concept of something hidden, the concept of something that's
(30:05):
able to shift its appearance, right, but it's ultimately this
other thing that is not quite human.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Mm hmm yeah, similar to kitsune in Japan. Right. The
idea is that when you see a snake in the wild,
is it a regular snake or is it part of
this reptilian jin population.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Or is that guy actually a reptile?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
You know?
Speaker 5 (30:30):
Right?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Even here in twenty twenty six. One of the reasons
we did this episode. One thing that so fascinates me, gents,
is that Naga worship is going strong across the region
thousands and thousands of years later. So the question becomes,
what makes this worship so ubiquitous? What can explain the
(30:51):
popularity and the prevalence of this this tale in particular
for billions of people. Could there want to stretch out
and have a fun thought experiment? Can we slither into
this question? Is there some factual basis behind these bizarre
legends of a half human, half reptile race of shape
(31:13):
changing beings with essentially superpowers. Yep, this is one of
those episodes. We're getting weird. We're not talking about corporations
right now, folks, We're talking about very strange folklore. We'll
be right back. Here's where it gets crazy, guys. Can
(31:34):
we do a bit of a thought experiment?
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Always?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah? Yes, Okay, I guess all thoughts are technically experimental, But.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
That's what this whole show is, just one big thought experiment.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
So one.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I really like the way you put it. A while back, Matt,
We've been having one long conversation for almost twenty years.
So this is the trick stop, won't stop, can't stop,
we't stop. This is the tricky part. Snake Bite.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
I met a guy, wasn't that.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I met a guy who went by the name snake
Bite and he was human and he was in his sixties,
and I was like, I know your name is Dave.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
I remember snake Bite.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I remember?
Speaker 3 (32:13):
I remember this?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
All right?
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Was that video that guy's like, I'm a slithery.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Snake, I'm a Flatherythnike. Yes, sounds like another great one
night hang. So at this point, okay, let me check
real quick, dil it, please keep this in just check.
Pardon my tap tap sounds on the keyboard. Yes, at
this point, there have been no proven discoveries of humanoid,
(32:44):
sapient reptile people. But this is why it's so interesting
to all of us. I hope, we hope uh shout
out to the Silurian hypothesis. We cannot prove that something
like this did not ever exist. Do you guys remember
the Silurian hypothesis?
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Yes, as though there was something some civilizations, some groups
of intelligent species that existed long before we were around,
and even their existence is now buried. So deep within
layers of the earth that have accumulated across you know,
hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years, Like, holy crap,
(33:26):
what an idea?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
What an irritated idea? By the way, because it's okay,
here's the deal, folks. In twenty eighteen, these two very smart,
big doctor Who fans named Gavin Schmidt and Adam Frank
publish something called the Silurian hypothesis, which takes its name
from the lizard people and Doctor Who, And they say,
(33:49):
is it possible to detect an industrial civilization in the
geological record? So put simply, could there be some previous
advanced civilization that disappears from the record. Could it leave
some remaining marks things humans could find and understand eons
(34:11):
down the road. Over the past two point five million years,
as the guys point out, there is a ton of
evidence for climate change and shifting soil horizons and non
Homo sapien cultures. Denisovans, Neanderthals, Denisovans weren't verified to have
existed until after stuff they don't want you to know
(34:32):
became a show. History is alive.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
That's crazy, And what is the time frame? Though? When
did Denisovans and Neanderthals, Like, let's give a timeframe from that,
because I think that would help us understand how far
away potentially you know, some right, some Sapiens reptilian race
could have existed.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, so this would be again the quaternary is the
fancy word for the past two point five million years.
But we have to understand for everybody listening, who is
a primate? Your flavor of primate is quite recent in
the geological record. The Denissovians were really in their Heydi
(35:19):
about two hundred thousand to thirty two thousand years ago,
So that'd be I want to say, middle to late Pleistine.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Got you, and then Neanderthal's at least to some of
the best estimates we've got right now are about four
hundred thousand years ago to forty thousand years ago.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yeah, mixtapes of humans.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
We're talking about hundreds of thousands of years ago just
for the closest thing to Homo sapiens, right, and we
still all got we've got all these missing links that
we still don't have that go back further to a
common ancestor. And you know, and again that's just does mam,
million dudes hanging around.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
You know. Yeah, that's say you can fighting one finger
bone from your cousin. Basically, the record still, the historical
record is very tricky because it's incomplete. Once we get
past that threshold of two point five million years, evidence
disappears because Earth is hungry. Earth is a living thing
(36:16):
and it always has an appetite. So we know that
there are ocean sediments that get moved around the coast changes.
We can't really figure out what Earth specifically look like.
We can get a vibe, we can get a gist,
We can make some pretty good guesses about things like
(36:37):
atmospheric oxygen mix. We could learn a lot of stuff
from fossils, but we have to remember that becoming a
fossil is it's like winning the lottery. It is so
dependent on good luck and environmental conditions. So, yeah, the
silurium folks rocked our minds. People, They rump at our cabasas,
(36:59):
because yes, it is possible that some sort of advanced
civilization could have existed in the distant past, and the slow,
heavy grind of geological time are erased it completely, and
our best evidence, oddly enough, is the lack of evidence.
We literally cannot prove that it did not happen. Cut
(37:24):
to Jim Carrey. So you're saying there's a chance, you
know what I mean. Yeah, Now, fellow skeptics in the crowd,
fellow skeptical conspiracy realists, don't feel left out. I know
this is going to get some people's dander up. Let's
be clear, if you haven't heard that episode about the
Silurian hypothesis, our buddy Schmidt and Frank repeatedly emphasize this
(37:47):
is only a thought experiment. They're saying, we're not wing nuts,
we're just fun at parties, and this is the stuff
we like to riff about.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Well why not think about it? Right?
Speaker 2 (37:57):
I mean why not?
Speaker 3 (37:58):
I get like the the High Tower kind of science
thing that happens a lot, and you think you know
a lot about a thing, and then that's the end
all be all, and that's just how it is. But
we know, come on, science is about finding the next
best evidence, and if you're not using your brain to
imagine possibilities, then you're never gonna seek out whatever that
(38:21):
next best evidence is. We on this show are all
about those thought experiments.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah, And I've always found it troubling that people mistake
science as a pursuit of the most accurate answer that
is partially true. But the real art of what we
call science is learning how to ask questions right, constructing
(38:46):
the questions. The what ifery is the beating heart of
the human endeavor, and so this is a great question
to ask. This is a fun thing to riff on
at parties, and this line of thought raises so many questions.
It's fascinating to see how our naga myths would fit
into this framework, into this hypothesis, I mean, an ancient
(39:09):
race of lizard men. Sign me up, I'm so in.
I'm so in. Guy's just text me.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
I am interested to know whether or not we could
go back to some of the Mahabarata and some of
these concepts of these nagas existing on a different plane,
right or if we're seeking evidence of these things, We're
never gonna find it. From a Cilarian hypothesis standpoint, We're
(39:36):
never gonna find it, not because the Earth swallowed up
all that evidence and all those bones and things, but
because where they came from is where they went back to,
which is literally a different place than on Earth. In
the case of the Mahabraaja, I think, Oh, I'm gonna
misspeak because I don't know it enough. But I think
they go to Oh when I say plane, it's almost
(40:02):
thinking about heaven and Hell and Earth as three different
layers of a thing. Yeah, we're talking about tala A
nether Yes, that exactly exactly been. So if they just
returned back there, if you know, you go along the
myth route, then we'd never find them.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah, until we get until we get a direct flight
via Delta to sal to the nether World.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Yeah, we dig far enough and we just find that
that place, you know, or.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
We get down deep enough into the ocean. It's it's
fascinating because if an earlier civilization did exist before the
dawn of humanity, which is really having a moment right now,
then the human folks with the best chance of recognizing
this pre existence, they would have logically been from the
(40:49):
earliest proven human civilization. So to begin our investigation, we
have to start, actually not in Southeast Asia, we have
to start on the other side of that great continent,
in Mesopotamia. This is where they found in the nineteen hundreds.
And I know this sounds weird, folks, This is where
archaeologists discovered seven thousand year old I'll call him Action
(41:13):
Figures is seven thousand year old figurines that have human
like bodies but reptilian facial features. They're multiple places.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
That's so interesting, Ben, because you already mentioned this. But
sometimes it's the other way around, where there's snake bodies
and human faces way creeper, which.
Speaker 5 (41:34):
Is way creepier.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
Completely agree, And I just wanted to take a quick
a tangent to talk about a guy I think we're
all fans of in some way, shape or form. A
complicated dude, but Alan Moore, who is a comic book writer.
He's responsible for stuff like Leg of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Watchman
v for Vendetta from Hell and famously really into magic
with a c K and also famously kind of a
(41:56):
grump and famously very bearded, and also maybe not as
famously a big.
Speaker 5 (42:01):
Fan of this.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Ancient Roman cult that worshiped a snake deity known as
Glikan Gliican who's often represented as a snake with either
lamb like features or human like features, sometimes.
Speaker 5 (42:20):
Also with a beard.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
So I get why Alan Moore was into it, but
it's super interesting hearing him talk about it, only because
it kind of he's a bit of a troll Alan
Moore and also just a bit of a theatrical dude,
so it kind of makes sense. But the thing about
this cult is that it was run by a dude
who was kind of exposed as being a bit of
a charlatan, this guy Alexander of Abba Naticus, and he
(42:48):
had this puppet that he would control that was worshiped,
and it was him, you know, mouthing the snake the
stuff the snake was saying and acting as an oracle,
and people would come and speak to the snake, and
it was really just Alexander, you know, doing the hand
puppet treatment and more. Was kind of into this, Like
he talks about how there's something about this theatrical aspect
(43:11):
of it that he's into, and I get that coming
from a person who's sort of an iconoclastic dude, But
I just wanted to read you a little bit from
this interview where he says it's ontologically very sneaky. It's
proving that gods exist by a kind of ontological back
door by saying, no, the idea is the only thing
that needs to exist. Gods are made of ideas, and
(43:31):
it's difficult to argue that gods are not made of ideas.
Speaker 5 (43:34):
So that is my basic proposition.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
And Glican was probably the most sophisticated application of magic
as a technology that occurred just before the Christian Church
wiped out the whole of the Gnostics, possibly because, as
I argue in the Book of Magic, because both shared
the same figures.
Speaker 5 (43:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
I thought it was a fascinating take on like magic
and magic as technology and religion as technology, and the
idea that worshiping a.
Speaker 5 (43:59):
Thing does always necessarily mean you believe in the thing.
It can be a symbol, you know. I don't know.
I thought it was neat.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
No, that's a great that's a great setup too, because
what how do we define belief? There are people, for instance,
who very much have have a religion as a defining
core aspect of their personality. Yet at the same time
they treat those revealed works as a figurative language, as
(44:29):
metaphor right, So they don't think there were actually two
people who got in trouble. They think this is a
way to understand the past. So I think that's an
excellent question. It's great foreshadowing where we're going as well.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
Just this concept of using a puppet to commune in
some way, you know, even though it's removed from actually
communing with a god or a deity or something like that,
you were able to provide that kind of interaction, right,
And it's making me think about the obeyed figurines you
just talked about before that, Ben, depicting these serpent like creatures,
(45:07):
some of them even breastfeeding with children that also have
the snakehead resemblance. I was just reading the article you posted, Ben,
and it is very interesting that you know, four thousand,
five thousand BCE these depictions are occurring, and there the
(45:28):
concept of turning those things into figurines that you can
interact with that you know, a child can hold, you
could put on somewhere in your home and maybe venerate
or just play with. As you're saying, been like an
action figure. You're having an interaction with something that is
potentially don't we don't know fully like what worship was
(45:49):
or what they actually were a part of. Right, These
these figurines were not one hundred percent sure what they
were used for, are we.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
We are not. And probably my most will belief that
I may have said on the air previously is that
I believe ideas are alive and some can become sentient
totally and.
Speaker 4 (46:09):
Well yeah like the yes the stone Gollum right, not
not in this sme eagel Gollum of it all. But
if I could really quickly just wrap up the whole
Glican thing with to that point, Ben and Matt, there
was one dude who was super anti Glican and anti Alexander.
This guy, Lucian of Samosata, who gave an account that
(46:30):
he believed exposed Alexander as a false prophet, manufacturing this
fake serpent with wheezing a wooden linen body with a
wax or calfskin head, manipulating it to appear to speak
and to perform miracles, and accuses this guy of fraud. However,
a lot of historians treat glaicens as more of a
(46:50):
spiritual experience, Like it didn't necessarily mean that the people
in the crowd believed they were seeing a magical snake
monster talking to them. They very well knew that they
were seeing an active theater, an act of religious you know,
press to digitation, which I think is awesome.
Speaker 5 (47:07):
When we see the magician, we know the tricks aren't real.
Speaker 4 (47:10):
But we still have like a spiritual, magical kind of
experience if we suspend that disbelief in a way that
can be meaningful. Do we worship the magician? Not necessarily,
but it's an experiential thing that we give ourselves over to.
And I think religion can be very similar, and it
doesn't always mean that everyone believed they were talking to
a giant snake.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Yeah, Like we said, levels of belief right, metaphor versus
figurative language, representation versus literalism. It's too you know, going
back to other representatives or dare I say avatars. We
know there is a mystery about those reptilian figures from
ancient Mesopotamian societies. They have humanoid bodies with elongated heads,
(47:55):
almond shaped eyes, and they have scale, detailed, scaled reptilian skin.
They also have a lot of intricate patterns and depictions
of clothing. They're impostures that indicate religious or symbolic significance.
Some of them appear to be holding infants. Others are depicted,
(48:15):
you know, like hand up, I'm in charge here. This
is crazy because we still can't answer how those action
figures came to be. So we're going to take a
break for a word from our sponsors IGU, and will
be right back to get even weirder with this.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
And we're back, guys. I just had a weird little
revelation thanks to the magical powers of Google Maps. One
of the places that we were talking about ben that
had these figures. Can you say the name of it
one more time? It's I think tell al ubayd Yeah,
(48:58):
tell a little Okay, So listen to this, you guys.
Do you know the name Abu Grabe?
Speaker 5 (49:04):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Yeah, me too. You know what's twelve minutes away from
Abu Grabe? Is it Abe? This place with the serpent
figurines in the surpent worship? Do you guys remember all
of those rumors that were just proliferating back in the
day about oh, the US government is actually in Iraq
(49:27):
for these ancient mysteries and for sometimes Ufo stuff, sometimes stuff, Yes,
And all of the museums that were looted and ancient
artifacts that were taken or destroyed. It just makes me
think about some of this stuff. Maybe maybe there really
is some kind of connection. We just don't know, or
(49:48):
it seemed so ridiculous at the time, we wouldn't even
look into it.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
I Oh gosh, guys, I can't remember. I think I
mentioned to you I wrote a story about this fiction.
Oh bachically, did I ever send that to you? Guys?
It's kinda banger, thinks. Okay, I'll send it off air.
I'll send it off air. Please keep.
Speaker 3 (50:05):
This should turn it into a script brosh Yeah jeez
well maybe, Hey Netflix, thanks for having us.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
So First, this idea of a secret race of not
quite human lizard people, it is super cool. Second, experts
overwhelmingly believe this statuary, these boss reliefs, these figurines, these
action figures are just depictions of fantasy and creativity. So
(50:35):
the people of the ancient past, they're gonna argue they
weren't attempting to depict something they saw in real life.
Pooh pooh to that. Instead, for us to assume these
artifacts mean something like the naga or lizard people was real,
it'd be the best way I can explain it. So silly.
It would be as if historians far into the future
(51:00):
accidentally dug up a box of SpongeBob figures and said,
oh wow, so Earth used to be run by a
living yellow sponge with weird shorts and everybody worshiped it,
or all those lego pieces that keep washing up on
the beach that continues.
Speaker 5 (51:16):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
Yes, that's such a good point. Man. We talked about that,
I think in the Salarian Hypothesis episode and a couple
other ones we've done about the ancient past, and specifically
that tendency to believe that folks worshiped things just because
they are around.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
These folks were really into penises. Look at all these skyscrapers, Yeah,
it is they are pallid patriarchy.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
For example, when you going through stuff for this trying
to find if there actually was some kind of ancient
Egyptian connection to the nagas Uh, one of the things
that stands out always in the culture, ancient Egyptian culture
were those obelisks. And Guys, every time I go down
that road personally and I see just the concept of
an obelisk, there's only like one or two that remaining
(52:05):
there were from ancient Egypt. But then you just look
at the Vatican and you look at the one that
they chose to put right in the center of the
most holiest of holy places, Jesus, but with all the
saints on the roofs looking down at the ancient Egyptian
at obelisk and you're just going, guys, what the hell
are we doing here?
Speaker 4 (52:24):
There's more history than we know. I kind of prefer
Islam's take on it.
Speaker 5 (52:29):
The giant cube, you know, so cool. It is so cool,
but not phallic at all, very cube like.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
Also, check out the pictures inside. It's just fast.
Speaker 5 (52:40):
What's it called. There's an it's it's at Mecca. But
the name of the cube is is different.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
The kabbah ka a b a that's that's the shrine
in Mecca. And let us know if you've ever made
the Hajj, we would love to hear about your experience.
We also know that these figures from ancient Mesopotamia, they
still give us a few more wrinkles to iron out, right,
So we could say these are just products of fantasy,
(53:07):
kind of like the old muscleman figures, remember those guys Muscleman, the.
Speaker 5 (53:11):
Little fleshy naked boys.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
Right yeah, originally Japanese, I think, But so maybe these
weren't just for fundsies. But the issue is they are
markedly different from most other art of that time. The
reptilian features on these statues are unlike anything else found
in the art or the mythology of the region. So
(53:33):
this means logically that whoever made these wasn't just grinding
out the usual decor or statuary. Something inspired these ancient
sculptors to create a new sort of art specifically focused
on lizard people for some unknown purpose. And you know
what I mean, like for some reason, people put a
(53:55):
lot of work into this and just never beat me here.
Dylan never talked about what.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
If there was just one sculptor in the area and
and that person was just terrible at faces, Like really, yeah,
so they just kind of pinch it and then just
it just looks kind of lizard like every time.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
They're like, hey, make a statue of my wife. I can,
but uh, I got to be honest. I'm mainly specialized
in lizard faces. Is that cool? And they're like, well,
my wife's not a lizard. It's like, yeah, but that's
why I'm the cheapest guy in town.
Speaker 3 (54:32):
That was on Mother's Day.
Speaker 2 (54:33):
There was on Mother's Day, there was already a rush.
All the other good sculptors were busy. So to your point, there, Matt,
a few minutes ago, this all occurred at such a
distant time in the past that current civilization doesn't know
much about these ancient civilizations, religions, spirituality, their worldview. We
(54:56):
do know they were very, very intelligent. They made astonishing
breakthroughs irrigation, agriculture, governance tool design. But when it comes
to the mystery of these lizard man action figures, we're
kind of at a loss. We do think it is telling,
maybe a little creepy, but it is telling that a
(55:16):
lot of these figures appear to be reptilian female hybrids
associated perhaps with fertility rights. They're crazily to baby. The
statue might emphasize a swollen abdomen, right, so maybe this
was something that you would deify or practice rituals too,
(55:38):
when you are trying to get pregnant, right, and you're
trying to start a family, something like that. But that's
boring answer. I say, we kick out the fun police guys.
Let's get weird with it.
Speaker 3 (55:49):
You want to get good with it.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
Weird dirt, it was weirdr even weirder. There's no earthy ways.
Speaker 3 (55:59):
What if it was to stand up comic, a prop
comic back in the day that had to make all
these figurines and was just doing the rounds, you know,
all around the area, playing gigs and giving away these
figurines as part of the show.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
Ah, yes, yes, I believe you're referring to Rajah come out.
Uh the king the top of the carrots.
Speaker 5 (56:18):
Also a bit of a Gallagher esque figure.
Speaker 2 (56:20):
Yeah, that is not actual Sanskrit.
Speaker 5 (56:23):
No use watermelons. Didn't he use other props too?
Speaker 2 (56:28):
He had a range. He had a range of crops.
The watermelon is what he's most known for, but you
know he contains multiple.
Speaker 4 (56:35):
Let's also not forget the comedic legacy of rubber snakes,
a great way to give someone a real spook, you.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Know, or you better the snakes that pop out the
spring Steaks esque gag yet classic. Do you want to
make your friends not trust you? Robert Spring loaded steaks
at a jar? Go ahead and ruin Mother's.
Speaker 5 (56:56):
Day, guys.
Speaker 3 (56:57):
Just speaking of comics, yesterday I watched something called the
Jack Tucker Comedy Stand Up Hour. If you have not
seen this, and it appears that only forty thousand something
of us have seen it, you need to go see
it now. Jack Tucker also known as Zach Zucker. It
is one of the funniest things ever and I can
totally imagine him doing a whole bit exactly like we're
(57:20):
describing here.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
Nice. Yeah, we'll check it out. We love a recommendation.
Also check out Funny af on Netflix. We can say
Kevin Hard is a coworker of ours. Now, guys, oh yeah, hey.
Speaker 3 (57:34):
We had another coworker on there too on episode one,
did we which one? Yes, Keeg and Michael Key. That's there.
Check out Thirteen Days of Halloween.
Speaker 2 (57:46):
He comes in multiple episodes. Yes. We also going back
to the lizard people conspiracy we're constructing here. We have
to mention the tenuous extra terrestrial connection, right, It's going
to come up anytime you're hanging out with fun people
and talking about this. According to the ancient Hindu scriptures,
(58:08):
this is confirmed. The Naga taught humans to talk. The
Nagas introduced them to the technology of writing, and this
is what differentiated the Homo sapiens from the beast. This
is what made people actually people pure umami. This is
wygu for fans of Eric von Danikin and the like
(58:30):
rip because we still have it questions we can't answer, right,
We're not exactly sure how humans figured out agriculture. We
can't explain other astonishing technological breakthroughs. Taming fire is a
great example of that. That's why there's so many stories
about it.
Speaker 3 (58:49):
I just had this image of the first time someone
learned how to dig those small trenches in soil in
order to separate crops, and imagined a snake, like a
large snake showing the humans how to do it by
slithering down the field and then coming back, and then
how to get the water through the channels.
Speaker 2 (59:11):
Yeah, I love it. I'm also imagining if we want
to go with this extraterrestrial thought experiment, I imagine a
snake inventing language, but how do you write it down
that you don't have hands? So instead, this snake just
like curls its body into the shape of different letters,
and eventually they figure it out. It's a real brute
force hack. But you know, maybe we can't prove that
(59:34):
did not happen.
Speaker 3 (59:35):
I'm gonna say a damning thing. I love that, man.
I'm gonna say, sandstone plus fangs.
Speaker 2 (59:41):
There we go. That sounds like something snake bite would
have told us. Uh well, you know, brother, sandstone and fangs,
what can I tell you?
Speaker 3 (59:50):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (59:50):
So this shout up, shout out, to you. So all
these discoveries, again, they occurred so so long ago that
anything like a written record is going to be heavily
mythologized itself. That written record is going to be a
transcription or interpretation of pre existing oral history at least
(01:00:15):
centuries years old. The game of telephone is in full effect,
and we are making long distance calls from twenty twenty six.
So I mean, it makes sense that some people would
attempt to explain these bizarre legends and historical anomolies through
the lens of our own modern folklore, extraterrestrials, other dimensional beings.
(01:00:37):
I mean, guys we've talked about in the past. Aliens
are the newest iteration of the Unsealy of Faye, of
jin boogeyman, angels, demons. So it's nuts. But the mystery
of global serpent worship and the story of the Naga
in particular, they fit in perfectly with this current worldview,
(01:00:58):
like old religious beliefs, and in alien contact is honestly
kind of a religion. All religious beliefs are rooted in
faith rather than in pure evidence in the scientific method.
So if you if you want to believe in aliens,
then you're going to find them somewhere wherever you look.
Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
Right then, I'm looking down through look to be honest, everybody,
it's a Wikipedia page, but it has to do with
Nagas and Buddhism and looking at the images specifically again
of these Buddha and these protector Naga and Naga. Proc
is a place that features one of these in gold,
and it is just astonishing to look at because sometimes
(01:01:41):
you will see the heads of the naga looking more
like a dragon. Sometimes you'll see them looking more like
a traditional snake, sometimes like an interconnected hood of snakes,
but with multiple heads. Sometimes, as in this one, it
almost looks like it's close to us zenomorph.
Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
You guys, so you have the way through transformation.
Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
Yeah, it's it's kind of nuts, looking almost like a
worm with a mouth that's opening up like the snake
continues on after the face.
Speaker 4 (01:02:14):
Dude, I'm so glad that you brought up xenomorph. I mean,
I know people have varying opinions on like the larger
Alien film franchise world, but like if you go to
Prometheus and the way it kind of goes back and
back and back to the origin of creation. The xenomorph
where they were basically gods. You know, they were basically
these reptilian things that created by gods, the weather, the engineers.
(01:02:39):
And then there's all these shrines to them and sculptures
and statues, and they're very much in this kind of
realm that we're talking about today. So I think that's
something that Ridley Scott was thinking about when he, you know,
went deeper into that universe.
Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Absolutely all right, shout out to you, Redley. We spy
a fellow intellectual. You should hang out. I mean we
we also okay, just for fun if we get all right,
my cats against this, but we're going through it.
Speaker 5 (01:03:06):
Just cats still like snakes. That's why they're scared of cucumbers, right,
and don't do that to your cat.
Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
No, but you know what I'm talking to him, Yes
I do. Let's assume there was again just for funsies,
just friends and family hanging out here, all of garden style.
Let's assume there was some sort of intelligent non human
race or civilization before humans became a big deal. How
would we prove it? Ideally, we want physical evidence, right,
(01:03:33):
habeas corpus, Give me the body, show me a tomb,
show me actual bones of these creatures that meld you know,
reptilian and mammalian. The second oh, that hasn't happened yet,
by the way, But the second best proof would be
the discovery of anomalousts manufacturing a temple pottery ruins. We'd
(01:03:54):
have to verify and date these, and we would need
to be able to prove that these things were construct
either before humans overall were capable of making those things,
or they had to be constructed in a part of
the world that humans had not reached at that time. Right,
and we know, given the basis of understood human evolution
(01:04:16):
and expansion, we kind of know where those spots are, like,
we kind of know the last places people made it
to in the timeline. So maybe maybe it's out there.
You know, I'm still like baffled because so far nobody
has been confirmed to find any of this. Maybe you
are the person who has upended our understanding of history,
(01:04:38):
if so, right to us conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
But tons of people have claimed to discover stuff like
this over centuries and centuries, and in every single case
they've either misinterpreted the work of a previous civilization, human civilization,
or they've been doing forgeries and frauds. Check out ridiculous history,
(01:05:00):
you know, like check out the story in the Pilton Man.
Remember that guy.
Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
It's just remember that one.
Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
That's full of grifters, people who are saying, oh I
discovered this last civilization thing, or oh I found this
ancient bigfoot scalp that we worship, and it's inevitably it's
a goat.
Speaker 3 (01:05:19):
Yes, there is another myth that exists that are it's
associated with a naga and it is often employed by
grifters depending on where you're traveling. In places where often
Hinduism is one of the predominant religions, there are folks
who will tell you stories of the nagamani, which is
(01:05:44):
this concept of a jewel that's embedded in the forehead
of a snakelike naga creature. And if you can find
one of these jewels or obtain one of these jewels,
your fortunes, you know, your your life will be better
and you will achieve the things you want to achieve,
and great wealth potentially one of those things. And there
(01:06:05):
are a lot of folks. There are warnings online about
folks who will try and sell you one of these
for a crazy price, and it will. It may actually
be you know, a precious stone, it may be a
complete fake or but either way, it's probably not associated
with some kind of magical powers or deity.
Speaker 5 (01:06:23):
Well, I mean, let's go back to the Glican thing
and the puppetry.
Speaker 4 (01:06:27):
You know, there is a perspective that this dude Alexander
was an absolute charlatan, perpetrating a fraud on his followers
by trying to make them believe that he was the
conduit of this god. But then there are other accounts,
and especially like in the modern interpretation that Alan Moore
seems to take, that it was more of like a
you know, theatrical performance that everyone was kind of in on,
(01:06:51):
and more a way of sort of stirring up fervor
rather than a way of pulling the wool over people's
eyes and trying to deceive them.
Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Tribulation trail, you know, the world is not actually ending.
It's just to teach you a lesson through theater.
Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
You're talking about like ghost outs. I remember these, I
remember these hell houses.
Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
I remember tribulation.
Speaker 5 (01:07:13):
Yes, dude, Hell's fury.
Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
Oh my god, you're talking about right, Benbulations.
Speaker 4 (01:07:17):
Okay, I someone I mentioned this to someone recently, and
they had no idea what I was talking about. Like,
I remember when I was a kid going to this church,
uh for one of these around Halloween time where they
had like a crashed car outside of the church that
was like spray painted, and it was all this cautionary
tale of drinking and driving and how the devil, you know,
the devil is portrayed in these and that is an
old timey miracle play, mystery play, but everyone knows that
(01:07:41):
it's not the real devil, but what it represents is
a meaningful message and sort of a parable and there's
a there's something to be learned.
Speaker 5 (01:07:48):
But nobody that I mentioned this to uh knew what
I was talking about. And so I'm glad.
Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
I'm glad to feel I feel seen, So thank you, guys.
Speaker 3 (01:07:55):
It's also making me think, Guys, I just listened to
Brother Ali Uncle Sam GD and the way he depicts
the myth of the United States as being this thing
that if you believe in it, you can be tricked
right same way if you make somebody believe that there's
some magical jewels that exist within snake foreheads somewhere, or
(01:08:15):
you know, in other myths any myth really, and there
are a lot of them. If you make somebody believe
in that enough, hard enough, you can trick someone much
in the same way the myths and the legends about
snakes being tricksters, something hidden that you need to be
aware of, the warnings about those things, as an actual
(01:08:36):
snake might be within the grass. It's very interesting how
this is all kind of connecting back up as a
potential warning to not As you said, Ben, let the
wool get pulled over your eyes.
Speaker 5 (01:08:47):
Full circle like the old erraburus.
Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
And going back to this thought experiment, this idea of
whether we could prove some kind of pre existing non
human civilization. What a beautiful sentence to say. We do
know that ruins and lost cities get discovered all the time,
even in the modern days. Shout out to oh, what's
that poem The Art of Losing? Have you ever heard
(01:09:12):
that one? Guys, we're not going to read it, Elizabeth Bishop.
One art is what it's called nice. It's a perfect
poem about love lost and about the nature of humanity,
because humanity is very, very good at losing stuff. Humanity
loses entire cities. We recall years ago we loved this example,
(01:09:34):
people assumed that the city of Troy was complete bullpoop
until one guy, literally one guy, got obsessed with it,
went nuts and managed to find it. We also know
a ton of civilizations and cities. They would build their
communities along the shorelines of their day, right, so, over long,
(01:09:56):
deep time, the natural cycles of Earth will dramatically change
those original shorelines. This means it is virtually certain right
now that there are undiscovered ancient ruins somewhere out there
drowning beneath the waves. We're not saying atlantis. We want
to manage expectations here. We're not saying atlantis. But we're
(01:10:17):
saying there's stuff under the water, and some of it
could be from civilizations that we have no idea about,
which I find inspiring.
Speaker 5 (01:10:26):
Dude.
Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
Yeah, and not just oceans, rivers rights, no river, but
rivers change course all the time. Places flood, and it
doesn't take long for, you know, in in an entire
area to be completely changed. We talked about we talked
about that recently with the Strait of Hormuz. We were
just imagining how did that small opening and connection between
(01:10:49):
those two larger bodies of water occur? And you know
how how long has it been there and how important
you know, just how important that strait is. Uh wow, Ben,
that's really interesting to imagine. Just along the coast of oceans.
Anybody's of water, that's where we go and those are
the places that get eroded the fastest.
Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
And what are the snake people like water? Okay, we're
just making the case.
Speaker 4 (01:11:19):
They're so versatile, they're such interesting creatures.
Speaker 2 (01:11:23):
I think we have been resting on our laurels of
having thumbs and limbs. The snake figured it out with
none of that stuff. So of course we're going to
kiss their butts a little. So is it possible that
humanity has yet to discover some previous advanced civilization? Yet?
It sure is, folks. Is it possible that these lizard
(01:11:46):
people things are based on some kernel effect? Probably not,
But again, as irritating and as tempting as it is,
there's just enough wiggle room from to have some fun
and ask, you know, what if snake people? What if
I don't know, it's Friday as we're recording.
Speaker 3 (01:12:07):
Guys, what if snakes? These Naga developed their own video
streaming service way back in the day. It was called
Naga Flicks. What do you think the programming would be
on Naga Flix. What's their stranger things?
Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
Oh well, definitely they're going to have h that top
of the carrots guy doing doing? Sure? Sure their stranger
things are going to be something like this, hang on,
let me do it apes. We've all seen them there, Harry,
they're overthumbed. But what if they could build something just
(01:12:47):
like you tonight on naga Flix?
Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
Right, what's the flick sound?
Speaker 2 (01:12:55):
Oh yeah, it's like we need something wor tone.
Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
But Dylan is going to make that incredible. I guarantee it.
Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
Oh my gosh, Dylan, we already owe you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
Man.
Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
Well, thank you for tuted in. Folks. We hope you
enjoyed this excursion into one of history's wildest conspiracy theories.
We want to hear what you think about the possibility
of undiscovered ancient civilizations. Where should humans look for them
and how should they look for them? And most importantly,
if you are a lizard person or consider yourself such,
(01:13:27):
we would love to hear from you directly. You can
always hit us up on the line. Should thou sit
the social meds, you can call us on the phone
and you can send us an email.
Speaker 4 (01:13:35):
Sure can reach out to us all over the lines
at the handle Conspiracy Stuff or Conspiracy Stuff Show, depending
on your social media platform of choice.
Speaker 3 (01:13:44):
You can give us a call. Our number is one
eight three three std WYTK. When you call in, give
yourself a cool nickname and let us know if we
can use your name and message on one of our
listener mail episodes. Bonus points if you can identify the
species that little Sneaky I had in my hands earlier
in the episode. Hopefully I just don't know. Maybe you
(01:14:08):
do give us a call. You want to send us
an email.
Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence
we receive. Now be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the
void writes back with pro quo clarice as for random fact,
to get one. We'd love to get a random fact
from you in return, So slither on over, meet us
out here in the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 3 (01:14:53):
Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the Iheartraate
medio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
A production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hello, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
All right, Parcelton, Matt, that's you, Matt, it's me Noel.
That was a Harry Potter reference.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you
are you.
Speaker 5 (00:43):
You are here.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.
So shout out to everybody's given me a hard time
about sibilants O Man podcast over the years.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
It's a feature, not a bug today, Man, thank you, nol,
I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
It was never a bug, to be fair, you're a
beautiful speaker. The word for today is ophiolotry. It's the
fancy term for snake worship. You want to.
Speaker 5 (01:09):
Unhind your jaw to get around that one.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Is a serious word.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
It's a mouth feel. It's a mouthful of mouth feel.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
And it's making me have all the feels because yeah,
snakes are fun and scary and people are freaked out
by them. And or sometimes worship them throughout history. Yeah,
of course, because we worship what we fear. That's a
gem you can take and use in hip hop later.
This is a fun one, folks. Tonight we are exploring
the origin of not Naga.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
God, but Naga.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
It's like those guys.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
I know, I worked way too hard on that show.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
That was good.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
No, I think it's it's fun counterpoint ben Naga. Yeah,
a different kind of worship.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah. Yeah, So riddle, is this what are the Naga?
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Well, in multiple religions originating outside of Asia, the Naga
and it's got a little line over the eight Does
that mean it's Niaga? Does it have a little meal
on it? It's more like a the Naga. They're a
semi divine race. This is you know, the in the
lore of half human, half serpent creatures said to reside
(02:11):
in the underworld.
Speaker 5 (02:12):
So kind of demons but vaguely demonic.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Well, and it varies widely because we're talking about multiple
versions of spirit spirituality that were around way before the
primary religions. We're talking about ancient Asia stuff, but also Buddhism, Hinduism.
I mean, it goes there's a lot.
Speaker 5 (02:30):
And of course you know, one belief systems demon is
another belief systems deity.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Right, yeah, shout out to the Ziti. And before we
get into this, Matt, we got to go to you.
You said you off air, you said ye had a surprise.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Okay, well let me just tell you the sequence of events.
This morning, around eight am, when I'm awake, I'm researching Naga.
I watch a video featuring this person, Rajarshi Nandi, who
wrote a book specifically about Naga. I decided, okay, this
is a lot of information. These are a lot proper
nouns of, you know, gods and how they're interconnected, and
(03:04):
especially if you look at Greek mythology, just the interconnectedness
and relationships within gods, and then how those are created,
Who begot who?
Speaker 5 (03:12):
The pantheons, the org chart of the gods.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Basic, it gets nuts with the Naga if you go
deep in it. So I went upstairs and I took
a little napsy about thirty minutes. Because there's something that
we have learned about in the past. If you study
something very hard, then you allow yourself to rest for
a moment. Once you awake, you will find often that
your mind has kind of put these things in an
(03:39):
order that's a little more helpful than the jumble.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Digested it a little bit. This is interesting, man, I
don't know this technique and is studying.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Okay, it's a studying technique I learned in college. Well
I did that. But the weird thing is, guys, this
some of the lore surrounding these naga is that they
will contact you, especially if you have a belief in
the the more godlike versions of the naga who have
been around, you know far before, man was I had
(04:07):
some weird dreams, you guys, featuring snakes. And my partner
while this is all happening, is out in the backyard
doing some landscaping, and she came across this adorable little
lady out there. I have a living, beautiful little snake
(04:28):
here that I'm going to take outside as soon as
we finish this intro. Probably hard to see.
Speaker 5 (04:33):
Summons, and now you're just handling it like it's nothing.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
It's a sweet little baby. I don't want it to
get hurt. I'm gonna take it outside. But awesome little snaky.
I can't get the camera to focus.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
I see him there it is.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I just thought that was really interesting because a lot
of the things we're talking about today are about the
power of snakes in general, as well as these naga
you know, gods and goddesses.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, it's fascinating stuff, right. We know reptiles are a
huge part of the real economy, which is the natural world,
and this belief in nagas or this idea of snake
worship may be unfamiliar to many of us in the West,
but you need to realize that people, especially in Asia
(05:19):
and across the globe, honestly have worshiped snakelike beings for
thousands upon thousands of years. So our question becomes, what
are they exactly? Where did these legends originate from, what
is their providence? And could they have somehow could these
stories be somehow based in a kernel of fact. We'll
(05:41):
get into it right after the break. Here are the facts.
Oh my gosh, guys, reptiles humans have such a dial
reptile humans have such a decomplicated Yes, have such a deep,
complicated relationship with reptiles. Well before the modern Homo sapiens,
(06:06):
one of our primary demographics on this show hit the scene.
Like we know, reptiles were well established are before the
rise of the primates. They come into play. They stroll
on to stage about three hundred and fifty million years ago,
during what we call the Carboniferous period. So it makes
sense that folklore and spirituality surrounding reptiles has always been
(06:31):
a part of human culture.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
And also makes sense that there is a historically driven
phobia of snakes because these little guys, while they might
appear innocuous, certain ones deliver a bite that'll kill a horse,
you know, stop at dead in its tracks, and of
course early man experience.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
That the hard way.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
So, you know, fear of snakes makes a hell of
a lot more sense than my completely irrational fear of birds.
You know, maybe mine dates back to tara actyls or
something I don't know, but like my mother deathly afraid
of snakes, a visceral fear of snakes that would cause
her to practically faint, you know, cy.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Fear, Yes, especially because oftentimes if you encounter a snake
in the wild, they are very much hidden. True, you
couldn't really see the coloration on the one that I
just had now, but if you looked down on the
ground and it was not moving, you would not see
it on the ground because of its coloration. That's a
(07:30):
very common thing, right, And the way they coil, they'll
get under foliage leaves, things like that, and hide in
a lot of places in jungles. They're in the trees
just kind of waiting, does.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
Drop down on you, jump, scary you bite you in
the face.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Look, not trying to freak anybody out about snakes, but
to your point, Matt as well, you might be walking
around the wild and just see a snake but not
be able to identify the coloration. So therefore the kind
of umbrella a reaction would be fear like because you
don't no red.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
And black friend of Jack. Red means you'll kill a fellow.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Which requires further inspection, is what I'm saying though.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
And you know that hidden nature, though, I think, runs
pretty deep when it comes to the lore, the myths,
the legs surrounding snakes. Sometimes you might even you might
not even know and there's a snake around you. May
you may not know if someone is a snake, right
this concept, someone may be a hidden snake.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
A snake in the grass.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
They call you, Yeah, you're right, No, that's the like,
that's why these idioms exist. Now, if you are culturally
from what we call the West. The most popular myth
you encounter regarding reptiles is probably the story of Eve
and the Snake in the Garden of Eden.
Speaker 5 (08:46):
Great corrupter, the beginning of all things bad, Yes.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
But also Promethean, because we have to remember, the Christian
Bible ripped off a lot of pre existent delisions. Yeah,
so the snake is h the snake is an infiltrator,
the snake is acer. It is also a purveyor of
hidden knowledge. Again Promethean. Now, in this specific instance, our
serpent in the garden is the devil. And it's also
(09:11):
fascinating because it is a common trope for deities to
assume animal like forms, non human animal like forms when
interacting with human beings. Another example would be all the
hijinks Zeus gets up to, notably that time he transformed
into a swan and committed sex crimes.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
Not good, bad lucks, Zeus, no Lyda and this kind
of a bad guy Zeus. You know, you know it's funny, though, Ben,
There's so many parts of the Bible that feel like
they're more diary entries, or they're meant to be describing
something that happened. But I just feel like to anybody,
whether you're like devoutly religious or not.
Speaker 5 (09:49):
The Adam and Eve story just feels like a story.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
It feels like a piece of mythology, not to be
taken literally, that it demonstrates something and these concepts, and
there certainly are.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
Parts of the Bible that feel more like history.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
And I'm not here to come down on either side
necessarily of like whether the Bible is true or not,
or you know what lens it's filtered through. That's obviously
a whole nother discussion. But to me, things like the
creation story and the fall of Man and all, that's
a feel like they were always kind of intended to
be these metaphors.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah, because it's it's interesting too, because, as we'll get
into it is the written Bible, in its many various forms,
is ultimately a transcription or interpretation of a far older
oral tradition. Right, So we knew that people were telling
each other's stories about serpents and reptiles far before somewhat
(10:43):
invented the word reptile, far before people were writing stuff down. Yeah, like,
these these myths are early attempts to explain the natural
world and the behavior of those non human animals. So
Some of it might sound outlandish or even silly in
the modern day, but we have to remember, as we
emphasized in a previous episode, that these function as a
(11:07):
way of modeling behavior in society. These are warnings about
the consequences of behaving incorrectly around snakes. So the idea
of bargaining with the serpent might feel like a fairy tale,
but the lesson hidden in there underneath the grass is
very much real. Don't mess with snakes. You might get bit.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
Don't do it, Matt.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
I just noticed, by the way. I think the reason
I keep saying reptile is because of your background. It's
very reptile. Mortal Kombat code it and I love it.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Are you thinking about the song? I always think about
the song?
Speaker 5 (11:39):
Which song by nine and Snails.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
The song that represented reptile on the Mortal.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
I don't remember he had a theme. He had walk
on music.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, hell yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
It's pretty killer. I remember it from the movie, the
Mortal Kombat movie, the original one.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
Is it Jock Champs.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Reptile boom Bom bom bom basically, But the thing is
too with Mortal Kombat. As any aficionado of fighting games
will know, it's kind of weird that you have to
push a certain button to block. Why can't just hold back?
Speaker 5 (12:15):
Hold back?
Speaker 4 (12:16):
But the thing about Reptile the character too, is he's
sort of masquerading the early versions of Reptile. He looks
just like they asked me. Probably it was just so
they could use the same character model.
Speaker 5 (12:25):
He looks just like sub.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Zero and Scorpion, only green. And it wasn't until he
would pull his mask down that he revealed his true
reptilian features and acid spitting characteristics.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
And I will posit to you, guys. Here's why I'm excited.
The pretentious reason I'm excited about the new Mortal Kombat film.
That's that's about to go live good. Yeah, it's an
iteration of these old myths that we're talking about. I
mean sneaks. Sneaks in particular, out of so many other reptiles.
They are fascinating because they are just so gosh darned
(13:00):
different from the mammles.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
I thought you were huge.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
They got no arms, they got no legs, slithery ropes, chok,
full of attitude, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
Still around.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
First thing, I remember, very long ago, one of the
first times I saw a snake and I was just impressed.
I was like, how do you get around? How do
you do? How do you do stuff?
Speaker 5 (13:25):
How do you do with this one snock?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah? Well then you try and hold one and you
just you see exactly how they get around. Muslims are fast. Yeah,
it's astonishing. I remember as a kid we caught a
rat snake once and tried to keep it around to
like we wanted a pet, and we thought it was
so cool, my sister and I. But that thing, it
was just too cunning, and it was able to lift
(13:48):
the lid off of the enclosure that we created for
it almost immediately.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Cunning is the right word. There's they're they're very sharp,
and they're very kind of sneaky, and.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
They're good at like plot like like like covert moves.
They can even like slither through a keyhole if you
let them.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
You know, they strength, They have very focused, very focused stats.
We would say if this were a video game, also
very little body fat. So yeah, it's just a slithery,
sinuous rope, but it is a very good rope and
it is very evolutionarily focused.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
Is what could be more utilitarian than that?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
You know, a rope that can squeeze you to death
through sheer will and musculature.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Not to mention, bite your neck and also you know,
kill you dead. Lot going on with snakes, lot, lot.
It makes sense that they were so revered, is what
I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Of course, yeah, and we'll put because the you know,
it's fascinating that given given the reality that the reptile
was already a global phenomenon before humans began human ing,
it's not that surprising that early cultures who would ever
interact with each other had met reptiles and had deified
(15:05):
them to one degree or another, like plume serpents in Mesoamerica.
You know, you got the Egyptians, the Greeks, indigenous folks
in Australia, the Norse. All these cultures have serpent deities.
Sometimes they're wise and benevolent, right, they'll slyther in and
help you out.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
Was that a Harry Potter reference?
Speaker 2 (15:24):
And other times they are portrayed as agents of darkness,
evil and chaos.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
Ooh, you all go on for two seconds.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
I want to bring a little show and tell myself
I actually have a snake deity kind of shrine that
I worship right here in my little studio.
Speaker 5 (15:41):
You're right back.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Awesome, Yeah, Ben, I focused a lot on the mahav
Rata and what it says about the deities and you know,
stories and all of these things. It's very interesting how
it is across the globe and spans all cultures.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah. Again, that's that's one of our interesting parts here, Matt,
because it is is a thing that human civilizations, many
of whom never interacted with each other, all seemed to
independently agree was worth worshiping. No, there's still no serpent
myth as deep and as complicated and as strange as
(16:19):
the story of the Naga. So Nol sounds like you're back,
give us the show and tell.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
Oh yeah, I kind of get.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
I did a little show and tell, not just a
show while you were talking about this is I don't know,
you guys can maybe help me name him, but he's
he's kind of a skeleton snake boy, a rainbow skeleton
snake boy who watches over my little cave here. But look,
when we were talking about it, looking at him the
way I have him positioned as sort.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
Of a high place, he is a little bit idle issue.
He's kind of got sort of an idle thing going
for him. So there you go. I guess I'm a
snake worshiper myself.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
We've all been there. You get in situations, right, So
let's focus on the Naga. Let's get into it. This
is a a race of basically lizard people. Sign us up,
you know what I mean. We are so on board
with this kind of stuff. The Naga have deep, deep
roots in Hinduism, Buddhism, and multiple other Southeast Asian religions
(17:14):
or belief systems. Naga in particular belief in them originating
from what we call the Indus Valley. The term itself
super old comes from Sanskrit. There's a lot of debate
about this. You're going to hear people say, well, the
word naga and Sanskrit just represents snake, but it may
also bean elephant, or it could be translated as naked
(17:39):
hairless animal.
Speaker 5 (17:40):
So it's that but a god.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
It's so weird because it's been around, this belief in
not for so long that it probably resembles Jin in
Islamic folklore, in that the Jin came to Islam via
pre existing to Timic traumatic beliefs. In the Middle East,
people probably worshiped something like the Naga, something like a
(18:07):
half human, half reptile thing, well before the rise of
things like Buddhism and Hinduism, which is nuts because those
are very old belief systems.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
That is a good point ben about worshiping the things
we fear throughout history, because you know, in early civilizations,
obviously weather was incredibly important for survival, but could also
annihilate your entire civilization. So it makes sense that people
would worship like thunder gods and you know exactly God
is of the hearth and all of that. These were
(18:39):
things that figured into survival and revering and worshiping these
little slithery you know, danger noodles is another way of
kind of protecting yourself potentially because maybe if you worship them,
they won't jump, scare you and bite you take you down.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, and let's imagine, right, religion aside. Let's imagine you
are in the Indus Valley thousands upon thousands of years ago,
and you see a little rope with an attitude. Right,
it's not always attacking you, but you know it can
some of them can kill people with their venom. You
also see what appear to be Marvel comics level superpowers,
(19:21):
they shed their skin, what they can, They could appear
to just kill themselves and rise from the dead. Also,
because they're ectotherms, they can intertrpre and then come back out.
Speaker 5 (19:35):
It's kind of going to dormant basically, right.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So of course you're gonna you're gonna
see these things and you're going to think of both
life and death. And it's nuts. This was so popular.
We know, hard archaeological evidence proves that circa twenty five
hundred BCE snake worship tile worship was prevalent in Indian
(20:03):
culture throughout South Asia.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah, and then they at least made appearances, right, They
played a big part, even if they weren't the focus
of worship or the thing that was being revered there,
there was a reverence for them a lot. I've seen
a lot of talk about an acknowledgment within some of
these texts that the reptiles were here before, Yes, as
in before the mammalian folks like humans walking around. So
(20:29):
there's this reverence for somehow wisdom or knowledge that existed
prior to us even existing on this plane.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Right, the antecedents of the Homo sapien knew well the reptile,
right and deified, worshiped, feared it, and definitely ate it
a few times. It's also it's also fascinating because there's
so much more about the Naga in particular, and the
Gin comparison is perfect because like the Jin, the Naga
(21:02):
have this complex social system and hierarchy. They have a king,
the Nagarasha, right, the King of the snakes. They can
be good or bad, just like Jin. They don't all
have the same religion. Just like Jin. You can see
how Hindu texts like the Mahabrata and the Piranhas in
particular Puranas excuse me, in particular, they depict these Nagas
(21:25):
as not necessarily always bad guys. Instead, they are powerful beings.
They're complex, yeah from earlier right, They're vast, like well, women,
they contain multitudes, they live underground, they live in aquatic domains.
They are the keepers of secrets, right, They guard treasure,
they guard sacred rivers and temples, and they will interact
(21:46):
with humans. And if you were cool, if you have
a good vibe, they'll protect you and they'll help you.
But if you're you know, dickish or somehow anti lestials, yeah,
then they will punish you and you will die.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Can I also just say we're gon We're gonna get
into this a little later, but just gonna throw this
out there in terms of like them coming to pay
a visit reptilians.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
Yes, just putting that, just just gonna drop that little
seed there.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
And exactly give credit to a friend of the show,
Jessica Breast, for the expression danger noodle.
Speaker 5 (22:17):
I did not invent that, and I think it's a
lovely way of referring to our bureau na friends.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
It's up there with trash banda for raccoons.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Because there's a really interesting story I was reading about
with Uh, and I don't know how to say any
of this correctly. Siddartha Guatama. Is that how you say that?
That's the like Buddha. There's a story of a serpent
king once Uh, once Siddartha achieved enlightenment, this serpent king
(22:45):
with like multiple heads came and guarded him as he meditated.
And it's this really there's it's depicted in several really
cool statues that you can find in several places in
the world, and that just it's a different vision of
a snake or even you know, a hydra. In this case,
when I see the multi headed snake, I think of
(23:06):
a hydra. I think of Greek mythology. I think of
other stories and video games and things I've experienced in
my life. But in this case, to see that it's
such a striking image and such an interesting concept that
one of these nagarajas would come and be a protector
of a higher spiritual being, in this case the Buddha.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
In Buddhism, the naga often do function as kind of
an sas or an elite guard for the Buddha, protectors
of Buddha's teachings, and often will be depicted helping followers
of Buddha as well. So if you reach oneness, you
don't have to fear the snakes in the grass or
(23:47):
the reptiles. They work for you. This also goes into
the protector aspect, which doesn't happen that much in the West.
The protector aspect is also evident in other modern day countries.
Bod I saw snake shrines when I had to go
to Thailand and Laos. Naga are associated with rivers quite often,
(24:09):
and this is a place with a lot of rivers,
and they're associated with fertility and reproduction, and it's this
fascinating Joseph Campbell esque study in duality because the serpent
is associated with water, the great bringer of life, but
also with destruction. So this is everything together as kind
(24:31):
of a combo meal of a deity. And I love
that we're mentioning the different forms because they are shape shifters.
They're literally shifty little guys. You know, sometimes humans with
snakes on their heads and necks. In India, they're usually
their aspect is usually going to be like that of
a cobra. The creepiest ones to me, guys, the creepiest
(24:55):
shrines I've seen, what I've been in the field are
mostly snake forms with a human head or a human face,
and it really creeps me out. I don't know if
you guys have seen those in person or in research.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
There's an elder ring boss that I think is in
the volcano manner that is like this giant, snaky dragon
guy with the creepy old man face, and it's terrifying
on so many levels. He also like pulls a sword
made of human limbs out of its own throat and
brandishes at you with human are arms.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
I can't remember his name, but he's a scary guy.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
But it did make me think it's Jeremy.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
It's definitely Jeremy or Steve. But it also made me
think of just dragons in general. We've got various depictions
of dragons. Some of them have arms and legs, some
of them are more slithery, snaky things with wings. But
so many dragons in mythology and in you know, our
legend and all that are the bad guys slay the dragon.
But then you have things like the George R. Martin
(25:56):
Songs of Ice and Fire, where you got your good dragons,
or you got your dragons that are defending the good
guys and dragons defending the bad guys, and they're more
of like a weapon as opposed to inherently good or evil,
you know.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
And then of course you have Flight of Dragons.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
Yeah, of course you do.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
How can we forget about dragons?
Speaker 5 (26:12):
Or dragon Heart?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Did you guys watch it yet? Watch it? Yet?
Speaker 3 (26:16):
It's on the list. I keep thinking about this whole
half snake half human thing and all the versions of it.
They you are correct, ben at least in my experience
of seeing that the human top, you know, almost like
a mermaid, but with a snake kind of thing, almost
not quite. There are ones though. They have an interesting mixture,
(26:38):
and it has to do with depictions of the cobra
and the unfolding essentially of that you know, behind of
the head, the.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Hood like this. Oh guys, look, I'm going full lizard man.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Oh crap, oh crap, no look, oh God saying it
struck me because what I saw in my mind is
I'm looking at older images and some AI slop on
these YouTube videos, you guys, people like attempting to depict
the legends and the Mahavarata. Terrible stuff with AI voiceover.
(27:13):
But it's okay, somebody.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
Fat generic dude voice.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
You know what I saw in my mind, and I
wasn't sure if I was wrong, and I I'm definitely
wrong when it comes to it, but when like, deep down,
but I am thinking about an image of King tutin Common,
the Pharaoh touton Common and some other depictions of pharaohs.
And if you look in your mind's eye and see
if you can remember a picture of King ty especially
(27:43):
like the golden statuesque version. But what is what is
around his head? It's a it's a head piece. But
look what what that head piece resembles. It looks like
eerily similar to what Ben just exactly and goes over
(28:04):
and around the way a cobra's hood does. And in
many of them there is a literal cobra that is
depicted on his forehead, on his third eye. So it
just makes me wonder, like I don't know enough, you know,
guy who doesn't know enough talking about this thing, But
just the iconic imagery of that makes you wonder.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Think about the the Oran from the Never Ending Story. Yeah,
an iconic snake image. It's just so conducive to emblematic
kind of use, you know what I mean, Like ur iconography.
You can twist it in all these shapes. You can
make jewelry out of it, can make a crown, you know,
or like whatever, like bracelets and all kinds of things.
It's just a really flexible literally and figuratively image.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, and shout out to Stargate. That film holds up
depending on which traditions you examined, and there are many
across the world. The naga, just in the East Asian
South Asian sphere, can also be huge sea serpents. They
can be dragons with multiple heads. We're saying is there's
no one form of a naga, and there is also
(29:14):
no single form or profile of actions seeing be good,
being be bad, to stay on your p's and q's,
and it's nuts.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
And we also have to remember these creatures, especially the
half man half snake versions the naga that's certing about,
are shape shifters. So they can be full snake, they
can be full human, they can they can go in
between and all around and even shape shift further, at
least according to a lot of the legends and the myth.
(29:44):
So it does. Again, guys, I'm thinking about our reptilian
episode that we did and some of that stuff. It's
feeling like it's there is a reason some of the
other myths that we may talk about today originated. Again
the concept of something hidden, the concept of something that's
(30:05):
able to shift its appearance, right, but it's ultimately this
other thing that is not quite human.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Mm hmm yeah, similar to kitsune in Japan. Right. The
idea is that when you see a snake in the wild,
is it a regular snake or is it part of
this reptilian jin population.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Or is that guy actually a reptile?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
You know?
Speaker 5 (30:30):
Right?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Even here in twenty twenty six. One of the reasons
we did this episode. One thing that so fascinates me, gents,
is that Naga worship is going strong across the region
thousands and thousands of years later. So the question becomes,
what makes this worship so ubiquitous? What can explain the
(30:51):
popularity and the prevalence of this this tale in particular
for billions of people. Could there want to stretch out
and have a fun thought experiment? Can we slither into
this question? Is there some factual basis behind these bizarre
legends of a half human, half reptile race of shape
(31:13):
changing beings with essentially superpowers. Yep, this is one of
those episodes. We're getting weird. We're not talking about corporations
right now, folks, We're talking about very strange folklore. We'll
be right back. Here's where it gets crazy, guys. Can
(31:34):
we do a bit of a thought experiment?
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Always?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah? Yes, Okay, I guess all thoughts are technically experimental, But.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
That's what this whole show is, just one big thought experiment.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
So one.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I really like the way you put it. A while back, Matt,
We've been having one long conversation for almost twenty years.
So this is the trick stop, won't stop, can't stop,
we't stop. This is the tricky part. Snake Bite.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
I met a guy, wasn't that.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I met a guy who went by the name snake
Bite and he was human and he was in his sixties,
and I was like, I know your name is Dave.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
I remember snake Bite.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I remember?
Speaker 3 (32:13):
I remember this?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
All right?
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Was that video that guy's like, I'm a slithery.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Snake, I'm a Flatherythnike. Yes, sounds like another great one
night hang. So at this point, okay, let me check
real quick, dil it, please keep this in just check.
Pardon my tap tap sounds on the keyboard. Yes, at
this point, there have been no proven discoveries of humanoid,
(32:44):
sapient reptile people. But this is why it's so interesting
to all of us. I hope, we hope uh shout
out to the Silurian hypothesis. We cannot prove that something
like this did not ever exist. Do you guys remember
the Silurian hypothesis?
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Yes, as though there was something some civilizations, some groups
of intelligent species that existed long before we were around,
and even their existence is now buried. So deep within
layers of the earth that have accumulated across you know,
hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years, Like, holy crap,
(33:26):
what an idea?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
What an irritated idea? By the way, because it's okay,
here's the deal, folks. In twenty eighteen, these two very smart,
big doctor Who fans named Gavin Schmidt and Adam Frank
publish something called the Silurian hypothesis, which takes its name
from the lizard people and Doctor Who, And they say,
(33:49):
is it possible to detect an industrial civilization in the
geological record? So put simply, could there be some previous
advanced civilization that disappears from the record. Could it leave
some remaining marks things humans could find and understand eons
(34:11):
down the road. Over the past two point five million years,
as the guys point out, there is a ton of
evidence for climate change and shifting soil horizons and non
Homo sapien cultures. Denisovans, Neanderthals, Denisovans weren't verified to have
existed until after stuff they don't want you to know
(34:32):
became a show. History is alive.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
That's crazy, And what is the time frame? Though? When
did Denisovans and Neanderthals, Like, let's give a timeframe from that,
because I think that would help us understand how far
away potentially you know, some right, some Sapiens reptilian race
could have existed.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, so this would be again the quaternary is the
fancy word for the past two point five million years.
But we have to understand for everybody listening, who is
a primate? Your flavor of primate is quite recent in
the geological record. The Denissovians were really in their Heydi
(35:19):
about two hundred thousand to thirty two thousand years ago,
So that'd be I want to say, middle to late Pleistine.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Got you, and then Neanderthal's at least to some of
the best estimates we've got right now are about four
hundred thousand years ago to forty thousand years ago.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yeah, mixtapes of humans.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
We're talking about hundreds of thousands of years ago just
for the closest thing to Homo sapiens, right, and we
still all got we've got all these missing links that
we still don't have that go back further to a
common ancestor. And you know, and again that's just does mam,
million dudes hanging around.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
You know. Yeah, that's say you can fighting one finger
bone from your cousin. Basically, the record still, the historical
record is very tricky because it's incomplete. Once we get
past that threshold of two point five million years, evidence
disappears because Earth is hungry. Earth is a living thing
(36:16):
and it always has an appetite. So we know that
there are ocean sediments that get moved around the coast changes.
We can't really figure out what Earth specifically look like.
We can get a vibe, we can get a gist,
We can make some pretty good guesses about things like
(36:37):
atmospheric oxygen mix. We could learn a lot of stuff
from fossils, but we have to remember that becoming a
fossil is it's like winning the lottery. It is so
dependent on good luck and environmental conditions. So, yeah, the
silurium folks rocked our minds. People, They rump at our cabasas,
(36:59):
because yes, it is possible that some sort of advanced
civilization could have existed in the distant past, and the slow,
heavy grind of geological time are erased it completely, and
our best evidence, oddly enough, is the lack of evidence.
We literally cannot prove that it did not happen. Cut
(37:24):
to Jim Carrey. So you're saying there's a chance, you
know what I mean. Yeah, Now, fellow skeptics in the crowd,
fellow skeptical conspiracy realists, don't feel left out. I know
this is going to get some people's dander up. Let's
be clear, if you haven't heard that episode about the
Silurian hypothesis, our buddy Schmidt and Frank repeatedly emphasize this
(37:47):
is only a thought experiment. They're saying, we're not wing nuts,
we're just fun at parties, and this is the stuff
we like to riff about.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
Well why not think about it? Right?
Speaker 2 (37:57):
I mean why not?
Speaker 3 (37:58):
I get like the the High Tower kind of science
thing that happens a lot, and you think you know
a lot about a thing, and then that's the end
all be all, and that's just how it is. But
we know, come on, science is about finding the next
best evidence, and if you're not using your brain to
imagine possibilities, then you're never gonna seek out whatever that
(38:21):
next best evidence is. We on this show are all
about those thought experiments.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah, And I've always found it troubling that people mistake
science as a pursuit of the most accurate answer that
is partially true. But the real art of what we
call science is learning how to ask questions right, constructing
(38:46):
the questions. The what ifery is the beating heart of
the human endeavor, and so this is a great question
to ask. This is a fun thing to riff on
at parties, and this line of thought raises so many questions.
It's fascinating to see how our naga myths would fit
into this framework, into this hypothesis, I mean, an ancient
(39:09):
race of lizard men. Sign me up, I'm so in.
I'm so in. Guy's just text me.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
I am interested to know whether or not we could
go back to some of the Mahabarata and some of
these concepts of these nagas existing on a different plane,
right or if we're seeking evidence of these things, We're
never gonna find it. From a Cilarian hypothesis standpoint, We're
(39:36):
never gonna find it, not because the Earth swallowed up
all that evidence and all those bones and things, but
because where they came from is where they went back to,
which is literally a different place than on Earth. In
the case of the Mahabraaja, I think, Oh, I'm gonna
misspeak because I don't know it enough. But I think
they go to Oh when I say plane, it's almost
(40:02):
thinking about heaven and Hell and Earth as three different
layers of a thing. Yeah, we're talking about tala A
nether Yes, that exactly exactly been. So if they just
returned back there, if you know, you go along the
myth route, then we'd never find them.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah, until we get until we get a direct flight
via Delta to sal to the nether World.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Yeah, we dig far enough and we just find that
that place, you know, or.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
We get down deep enough into the ocean. It's it's
fascinating because if an earlier civilization did exist before the
dawn of humanity, which is really having a moment right now,
then the human folks with the best chance of recognizing
this pre existence, they would have logically been from the
(40:49):
earliest proven human civilization. So to begin our investigation, we
have to start, actually not in Southeast Asia, we have
to start on the other side of that great continent,
in Mesopotamia. This is where they found in the nineteen hundreds.
And I know this sounds weird, folks, This is where
archaeologists discovered seven thousand year old I'll call him Action
(41:13):
Figures is seven thousand year old figurines that have human
like bodies but reptilian facial features. They're multiple places.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
That's so interesting, Ben, because you already mentioned this. But
sometimes it's the other way around, where there's snake bodies
and human faces way creeper, which.
Speaker 5 (41:34):
Is way creepier.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
Completely agree, And I just wanted to take a quick
a tangent to talk about a guy I think we're
all fans of in some way, shape or form. A
complicated dude, but Alan Moore, who is a comic book writer.
He's responsible for stuff like Leg of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Watchman
v for Vendetta from Hell and famously really into magic
with a c K and also famously kind of a
(41:56):
grump and famously very bearded, and also maybe not as
famously a big.
Speaker 5 (42:01):
Fan of this.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Ancient Roman cult that worshiped a snake deity known as
Glikan Gliican who's often represented as a snake with either
lamb like features or human like features, sometimes.
Speaker 5 (42:20):
Also with a beard.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
So I get why Alan Moore was into it, but
it's super interesting hearing him talk about it, only because
it kind of he's a bit of a troll Alan
Moore and also just a bit of a theatrical dude,
so it kind of makes sense. But the thing about
this cult is that it was run by a dude
who was kind of exposed as being a bit of
a charlatan, this guy Alexander of Abba Naticus, and he
(42:48):
had this puppet that he would control that was worshiped,
and it was him, you know, mouthing the snake the
stuff the snake was saying and acting as an oracle,
and people would come and speak to the snake, and
it was really just Alexander, you know, doing the hand
puppet treatment and more. Was kind of into this, Like
he talks about how there's something about this theatrical aspect
(43:11):
of it that he's into, and I get that coming
from a person who's sort of an iconoclastic dude, But
I just wanted to read you a little bit from
this interview where he says it's ontologically very sneaky. It's
proving that gods exist by a kind of ontological back
door by saying, no, the idea is the only thing
that needs to exist. Gods are made of ideas, and
(43:31):
it's difficult to argue that gods are not made of ideas.
Speaker 5 (43:34):
So that is my basic proposition.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
And Glican was probably the most sophisticated application of magic
as a technology that occurred just before the Christian Church
wiped out the whole of the Gnostics, possibly because, as
I argue in the Book of Magic, because both shared
the same figures.
Speaker 5 (43:50):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
I thought it was a fascinating take on like magic
and magic as technology and religion as technology, and the
idea that worshiping a.
Speaker 5 (43:59):
Thing does always necessarily mean you believe in the thing.
It can be a symbol, you know. I don't know.
I thought it was neat.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
No, that's a great that's a great setup too, because
what how do we define belief? There are people, for instance,
who very much have have a religion as a defining
core aspect of their personality. Yet at the same time
they treat those revealed works as a figurative language, as
(44:29):
metaphor right, So they don't think there were actually two
people who got in trouble. They think this is a
way to understand the past. So I think that's an
excellent question. It's great foreshadowing where we're going as well.
Speaker 3 (44:44):
Just this concept of using a puppet to commune in
some way, you know, even though it's removed from actually
communing with a god or a deity or something like that,
you were able to provide that kind of interaction, right,
And it's making me think about the obeyed figurines you
just talked about before that, Ben, depicting these serpent like creatures,
(45:07):
some of them even breastfeeding with children that also have
the snakehead resemblance. I was just reading the article you posted, Ben,
and it is very interesting that you know, four thousand,
five thousand BCE these depictions are occurring, and there the
(45:28):
concept of turning those things into figurines that you can
interact with that you know, a child can hold, you
could put on somewhere in your home and maybe venerate
or just play with. As you're saying, been like an
action figure. You're having an interaction with something that is
potentially don't we don't know fully like what worship was
(45:49):
or what they actually were a part of. Right, These
these figurines were not one hundred percent sure what they
were used for, are we.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
We are not. And probably my most will belief that
I may have said on the air previously is that
I believe ideas are alive and some can become sentient
totally and.
Speaker 4 (46:09):
Well yeah like the yes the stone Gollum right, not
not in this sme eagel Gollum of it all. But
if I could really quickly just wrap up the whole
Glican thing with to that point, Ben and Matt, there
was one dude who was super anti Glican and anti Alexander.
This guy, Lucian of Samosata, who gave an account that
(46:30):
he believed exposed Alexander as a false prophet, manufacturing this
fake serpent with wheezing a wooden linen body with a
wax or calfskin head, manipulating it to appear to speak
and to perform miracles, and accuses this guy of fraud. However,
a lot of historians treat glaicens as more of a
(46:50):
spiritual experience, Like it didn't necessarily mean that the people
in the crowd believed they were seeing a magical snake
monster talking to them. They very well knew that they
were seeing an active theater, an act of religious you know,
press to digitation, which I think is awesome.
Speaker 5 (47:07):
When we see the magician, we know the tricks aren't real.
Speaker 4 (47:10):
But we still have like a spiritual, magical kind of
experience if we suspend that disbelief in a way that
can be meaningful. Do we worship the magician? Not necessarily,
but it's an experiential thing that we give ourselves over to.
And I think religion can be very similar, and it
doesn't always mean that everyone believed they were talking to
a giant snake.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Yeah, Like we said, levels of belief right, metaphor versus
figurative language, representation versus literalism. It's too you know, going
back to other representatives or dare I say avatars. We
know there is a mystery about those reptilian figures from
ancient Mesopotamian societies. They have humanoid bodies with elongated heads,
(47:55):
almond shaped eyes, and they have scale, detailed, scaled reptilian skin.
They also have a lot of intricate patterns and depictions
of clothing. They're impostures that indicate religious or symbolic significance.
Some of them appear to be holding infants. Others are depicted,
(48:15):
you know, like hand up, I'm in charge here. This
is crazy because we still can't answer how those action
figures came to be. So we're going to take a
break for a word from our sponsors IGU, and will
be right back to get even weirder with this.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
And we're back, guys. I just had a weird little
revelation thanks to the magical powers of Google Maps. One
of the places that we were talking about ben that
had these figures. Can you say the name of it
one more time? It's I think tell al ubayd Yeah,
(48:58):
tell a little Okay, So listen to this, you guys.
Do you know the name Abu Grabe?
Speaker 5 (49:04):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Yeah, me too. You know what's twelve minutes away from
Abu Grabe? Is it Abe? This place with the serpent
figurines in the surpent worship? Do you guys remember all
of those rumors that were just proliferating back in the
day about oh, the US government is actually in Iraq
(49:27):
for these ancient mysteries and for sometimes Ufo stuff, sometimes stuff, Yes,
And all of the museums that were looted and ancient
artifacts that were taken or destroyed. It just makes me
think about some of this stuff. Maybe maybe there really
is some kind of connection. We just don't know, or
(49:48):
it seemed so ridiculous at the time, we wouldn't even
look into it.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
I Oh gosh, guys, I can't remember. I think I
mentioned to you I wrote a story about this fiction.
Oh bachically, did I ever send that to you? Guys?
It's kinda banger, thinks. Okay, I'll send it off air.
I'll send it off air. Please keep.
Speaker 3 (50:05):
This should turn it into a script brosh Yeah jeez
well maybe, Hey Netflix, thanks for having us.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
So First, this idea of a secret race of not
quite human lizard people, it is super cool. Second, experts
overwhelmingly believe this statuary, these boss reliefs, these figurines, these
action figures are just depictions of fantasy and creativity. So
(50:35):
the people of the ancient past, they're gonna argue they
weren't attempting to depict something they saw in real life.
Pooh pooh to that. Instead, for us to assume these
artifacts mean something like the naga or lizard people was real,
it'd be the best way I can explain it. So silly.
It would be as if historians far into the future
(51:00):
accidentally dug up a box of SpongeBob figures and said,
oh wow, so Earth used to be run by a
living yellow sponge with weird shorts and everybody worshiped it,
or all those lego pieces that keep washing up on
the beach that continues.
Speaker 5 (51:16):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
Yes, that's such a good point. Man. We talked about that,
I think in the Salarian Hypothesis episode and a couple
other ones we've done about the ancient past, and specifically
that tendency to believe that folks worshiped things just because
they are around.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
These folks were really into penises. Look at all these skyscrapers, Yeah,
it is they are pallid patriarchy.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
For example, when you going through stuff for this trying
to find if there actually was some kind of ancient
Egyptian connection to the nagas Uh, one of the things
that stands out always in the culture, ancient Egyptian culture
were those obelisks. And Guys, every time I go down
that road personally and I see just the concept of
an obelisk, there's only like one or two that remaining
(52:05):
there were from ancient Egypt. But then you just look
at the Vatican and you look at the one that
they chose to put right in the center of the
most holiest of holy places, Jesus, but with all the
saints on the roofs looking down at the ancient Egyptian
at obelisk and you're just going, guys, what the hell
are we doing here?
Speaker 4 (52:24):
There's more history than we know. I kind of prefer
Islam's take on it.
Speaker 5 (52:29):
The giant cube, you know, so cool. It is so cool,
but not phallic at all, very cube like.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
Also, check out the pictures inside. It's just fast.
Speaker 5 (52:40):
What's it called. There's an it's it's at Mecca. But
the name of the cube is is different.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
The kabbah ka a b a that's that's the shrine
in Mecca. And let us know if you've ever made
the Hajj, we would love to hear about your experience.
We also know that these figures from ancient Mesopotamia, they
still give us a few more wrinkles to iron out, right,
So we could say these are just products of fantasy,
(53:07):
kind of like the old muscleman figures, remember those guys Muscleman, the.
Speaker 5 (53:11):
Little fleshy naked boys.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
Right yeah, originally Japanese, I think, But so maybe these
weren't just for fundsies. But the issue is they are
markedly different from most other art of that time. The
reptilian features on these statues are unlike anything else found
in the art or the mythology of the region. So
(53:33):
this means logically that whoever made these wasn't just grinding
out the usual decor or statuary. Something inspired these ancient
sculptors to create a new sort of art specifically focused
on lizard people for some unknown purpose. And you know
what I mean, like for some reason, people put a
(53:55):
lot of work into this and just never beat me here.
Dylan never talked about what.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
If there was just one sculptor in the area and
and that person was just terrible at faces, Like really, yeah,
so they just kind of pinch it and then just
it just looks kind of lizard like every time.
Speaker 2 (54:15):
They're like, hey, make a statue of my wife. I can,
but uh, I got to be honest. I'm mainly specialized
in lizard faces. Is that cool? And they're like, well,
my wife's not a lizard. It's like, yeah, but that's
why I'm the cheapest guy in town.
Speaker 3 (54:32):
That was on Mother's Day.
Speaker 2 (54:33):
There was on Mother's Day, there was already a rush.
All the other good sculptors were busy. So to your point, there, Matt,
a few minutes ago, this all occurred at such a
distant time in the past that current civilization doesn't know
much about these ancient civilizations, religions, spirituality, their worldview. We
(54:56):
do know they were very, very intelligent. They made astonishing
breakthroughs irrigation, agriculture, governance tool design. But when it comes
to the mystery of these lizard man action figures, we're
kind of at a loss. We do think it is telling,
maybe a little creepy, but it is telling that a
(55:16):
lot of these figures appear to be reptilian female hybrids
associated perhaps with fertility rights. They're crazily to baby. The
statue might emphasize a swollen abdomen, right, so maybe this
was something that you would deify or practice rituals too,
(55:38):
when you are trying to get pregnant, right, and you're
trying to start a family, something like that. But that's
boring answer. I say, we kick out the fun police guys.
Let's get weird with it.
Speaker 3 (55:49):
You want to get good with it.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
Weird dirt, it was weirdr even weirder. There's no earthy ways.
Speaker 3 (55:59):
What if it was to stand up comic, a prop
comic back in the day that had to make all
these figurines and was just doing the rounds, you know,
all around the area, playing gigs and giving away these
figurines as part of the show.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
Ah, yes, yes, I believe you're referring to Rajah come out.
Uh the king the top of the carrots.
Speaker 5 (56:18):
Also a bit of a Gallagher esque figure.
Speaker 2 (56:20):
Yeah, that is not actual Sanskrit.
Speaker 5 (56:23):
No use watermelons. Didn't he use other props too?
Speaker 2 (56:28):
He had a range. He had a range of crops.
The watermelon is what he's most known for, but you
know he contains multiple.
Speaker 4 (56:35):
Let's also not forget the comedic legacy of rubber snakes,
a great way to give someone a real spook, you.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Know, or you better the snakes that pop out the
spring Steaks esque gag yet classic. Do you want to
make your friends not trust you? Robert Spring loaded steaks
at a jar? Go ahead and ruin Mother's.
Speaker 5 (56:56):
Day, guys.
Speaker 3 (56:57):
Just speaking of comics, yesterday I watched something called the
Jack Tucker Comedy Stand Up Hour. If you have not
seen this, and it appears that only forty thousand something
of us have seen it, you need to go see
it now. Jack Tucker also known as Zach Zucker. It
is one of the funniest things ever and I can
totally imagine him doing a whole bit exactly like we're
(57:20):
describing here.
Speaker 2 (57:22):
Nice. Yeah, we'll check it out. We love a recommendation.
Also check out Funny af on Netflix. We can say
Kevin Hard is a coworker of ours. Now, guys, oh yeah, hey.
Speaker 3 (57:34):
We had another coworker on there too on episode one,
did we which one? Yes, Keeg and Michael Key. That's there.
Check out Thirteen Days of Halloween.
Speaker 2 (57:46):
He comes in multiple episodes. Yes. We also going back
to the lizard people conspiracy we're constructing here. We have
to mention the tenuous extra terrestrial connection, right, It's going
to come up anytime you're hanging out with fun people
and talking about this. According to the ancient Hindu scriptures,
(58:08):
this is confirmed. The Naga taught humans to talk. The
Nagas introduced them to the technology of writing, and this
is what differentiated the Homo sapiens from the beast. This
is what made people actually people pure umami. This is
wygu for fans of Eric von Danikin and the like
(58:30):
rip because we still have it questions we can't answer, right,
We're not exactly sure how humans figured out agriculture. We
can't explain other astonishing technological breakthroughs. Taming fire is a
great example of that. That's why there's so many stories
about it.
Speaker 3 (58:49):
I just had this image of the first time someone
learned how to dig those small trenches in soil in
order to separate crops, and imagined a snake, like a
large snake showing the humans how to do it by
slithering down the field and then coming back, and then
how to get the water through the channels.
Speaker 2 (59:11):
Yeah, I love it. I'm also imagining if we want
to go with this extraterrestrial thought experiment, I imagine a
snake inventing language, but how do you write it down
that you don't have hands? So instead, this snake just
like curls its body into the shape of different letters,
and eventually they figure it out. It's a real brute
force hack. But you know, maybe we can't prove that
(59:34):
did not happen.
Speaker 3 (59:35):
I'm gonna say a damning thing. I love that, man.
I'm gonna say, sandstone plus fangs.
Speaker 2 (59:41):
There we go. That sounds like something snake bite would
have told us. Uh well, you know, brother, sandstone and fangs,
what can I tell you?
Speaker 3 (59:50):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (59:50):
So this shout up, shout out, to you. So all
these discoveries, again, they occurred so so long ago that
anything like a written record is going to be heavily
mythologized itself. That written record is going to be a
transcription or interpretation of pre existing oral history at least
(01:00:15):
centuries years old. The game of telephone is in full effect,
and we are making long distance calls from twenty twenty six.
So I mean, it makes sense that some people would
attempt to explain these bizarre legends and historical anomolies through
the lens of our own modern folklore, extraterrestrials, other dimensional beings.
(01:00:37):
I mean, guys we've talked about in the past. Aliens
are the newest iteration of the Unsealy of Faye, of
jin boogeyman, angels, demons. So it's nuts. But the mystery
of global serpent worship and the story of the Naga
in particular, they fit in perfectly with this current worldview,
(01:00:58):
like old religious beliefs, and in alien contact is honestly
kind of a religion. All religious beliefs are rooted in
faith rather than in pure evidence in the scientific method.
So if you if you want to believe in aliens,
then you're going to find them somewhere wherever you look.
Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
Right then, I'm looking down through look to be honest, everybody,
it's a Wikipedia page, but it has to do with
Nagas and Buddhism and looking at the images specifically again
of these Buddha and these protector Naga and Naga. Proc
is a place that features one of these in gold,
and it is just astonishing to look at because sometimes
(01:01:41):
you will see the heads of the naga looking more
like a dragon. Sometimes you'll see them looking more like
a traditional snake, sometimes like an interconnected hood of snakes,
but with multiple heads. Sometimes, as in this one, it
almost looks like it's close to us zenomorph.
Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
You guys, so you have the way through transformation.
Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
Yeah, it's it's kind of nuts, looking almost like a
worm with a mouth that's opening up like the snake
continues on after the face.
Speaker 4 (01:02:14):
Dude, I'm so glad that you brought up xenomorph. I mean,
I know people have varying opinions on like the larger
Alien film franchise world, but like if you go to
Prometheus and the way it kind of goes back and
back and back to the origin of creation. The xenomorph
where they were basically gods. You know, they were basically
these reptilian things that created by gods, the weather, the engineers.
(01:02:39):
And then there's all these shrines to them and sculptures
and statues, and they're very much in this kind of
realm that we're talking about today. So I think that's
something that Ridley Scott was thinking about when he, you know,
went deeper into that universe.
Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Absolutely all right, shout out to you, Redley. We spy
a fellow intellectual. You should hang out. I mean we
we also okay, just for fun if we get all right,
my cats against this, but we're going through it.
Speaker 5 (01:03:06):
Just cats still like snakes. That's why they're scared of cucumbers, right,
and don't do that to your cat.
Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
No, but you know what I'm talking to him, Yes
I do. Let's assume there was again just for funsies,
just friends and family hanging out here, all of garden style.
Let's assume there was some sort of intelligent non human
race or civilization before humans became a big deal. How
would we prove it? Ideally, we want physical evidence, right,
(01:03:33):
habeas corpus, Give me the body, show me a tomb,
show me actual bones of these creatures that meld you know,
reptilian and mammalian. The second oh, that hasn't happened yet,
by the way, But the second best proof would be
the discovery of anomalousts manufacturing a temple pottery ruins. We'd
(01:03:54):
have to verify and date these, and we would need
to be able to prove that these things were construct
either before humans overall were capable of making those things,
or they had to be constructed in a part of
the world that humans had not reached at that time. Right,
and we know, given the basis of understood human evolution
(01:04:16):
and expansion, we kind of know where those spots are, like,
we kind of know the last places people made it
to in the timeline. So maybe maybe it's out there.
You know, I'm still like baffled because so far nobody
has been confirmed to find any of this. Maybe you
are the person who has upended our understanding of history,
(01:04:38):
if so, right to us conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
But tons of people have claimed to discover stuff like
this over centuries and centuries, and in every single case
they've either misinterpreted the work of a previous civilization, human civilization,
or they've been doing forgeries and frauds. Check out ridiculous history,
(01:05:00):
you know, like check out the story in the Pilton Man.
Remember that guy.
Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
It's just remember that one.
Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
That's full of grifters, people who are saying, oh I
discovered this last civilization thing, or oh I found this
ancient bigfoot scalp that we worship, and it's inevitably it's
a goat.
Speaker 3 (01:05:19):
Yes, there is another myth that exists that are it's
associated with a naga and it is often employed by
grifters depending on where you're traveling. In places where often
Hinduism is one of the predominant religions, there are folks
who will tell you stories of the nagamani, which is
(01:05:44):
this concept of a jewel that's embedded in the forehead
of a snakelike naga creature. And if you can find
one of these jewels or obtain one of these jewels,
your fortunes, you know, your your life will be better
and you will achieve the things you want to achieve,
and great wealth potentially one of those things. And there
(01:06:05):
are a lot of folks. There are warnings online about
folks who will try and sell you one of these
for a crazy price, and it will. It may actually
be you know, a precious stone, it may be a
complete fake or but either way, it's probably not associated
with some kind of magical powers or deity.
Speaker 5 (01:06:23):
Well, I mean, let's go back to the Glican thing
and the puppetry.
Speaker 4 (01:06:27):
You know, there is a perspective that this dude Alexander
was an absolute charlatan, perpetrating a fraud on his followers
by trying to make them believe that he was the
conduit of this god. But then there are other accounts,
and especially like in the modern interpretation that Alan Moore
seems to take, that it was more of like a
you know, theatrical performance that everyone was kind of in on,
(01:06:51):
and more a way of sort of stirring up fervor
rather than a way of pulling the wool over people's
eyes and trying to deceive them.
Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Tribulation trail, you know, the world is not actually ending.
It's just to teach you a lesson through theater.
Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
You're talking about like ghost outs. I remember these, I
remember these hell houses.
Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
I remember tribulation.
Speaker 5 (01:07:13):
Yes, dude, Hell's fury.
Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
Oh my god, you're talking about right, Benbulations.
Speaker 4 (01:07:17):
Okay, I someone I mentioned this to someone recently, and
they had no idea what I was talking about. Like,
I remember when I was a kid going to this church,
uh for one of these around Halloween time where they
had like a crashed car outside of the church that
was like spray painted, and it was all this cautionary
tale of drinking and driving and how the devil, you know,
the devil is portrayed in these and that is an
old timey miracle play, mystery play, but everyone knows that
(01:07:41):
it's not the real devil, but what it represents is
a meaningful message and sort of a parable and there's
a there's something to be learned.
Speaker 5 (01:07:48):
But nobody that I mentioned this to uh knew what
I was talking about. And so I'm glad.
Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
I'm glad to feel I feel seen, So thank you, guys.
Speaker 3 (01:07:55):
It's also making me think, Guys, I just listened to
Brother Ali Uncle Sam GD and the way he depicts
the myth of the United States as being this thing
that if you believe in it, you can be tricked
right same way if you make somebody believe that there's
some magical jewels that exist within snake foreheads somewhere, or
(01:08:15):
you know, in other myths any myth really, and there
are a lot of them. If you make somebody believe
in that enough, hard enough, you can trick someone much
in the same way the myths and the legends about
snakes being tricksters, something hidden that you need to be
aware of, the warnings about those things, as an actual
(01:08:36):
snake might be within the grass. It's very interesting how
this is all kind of connecting back up as a
potential warning to not As you said, Ben, let the
wool get pulled over your eyes.
Speaker 5 (01:08:47):
Full circle like the old erraburus.
Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
And going back to this thought experiment, this idea of
whether we could prove some kind of pre existing non
human civilization. What a beautiful sentence to say. We do
know that ruins and lost cities get discovered all the time,
even in the modern days. Shout out to oh, what's
that poem The Art of Losing? Have you ever heard
(01:09:12):
that one? Guys, we're not going to read it, Elizabeth Bishop.
One art is what it's called nice. It's a perfect
poem about love lost and about the nature of humanity,
because humanity is very, very good at losing stuff. Humanity
loses entire cities. We recall years ago we loved this example,
(01:09:34):
people assumed that the city of Troy was complete bullpoop
until one guy, literally one guy, got obsessed with it,
went nuts and managed to find it. We also know
a ton of civilizations and cities. They would build their
communities along the shorelines of their day, right, so, over long,
(01:09:56):
deep time, the natural cycles of Earth will dramatically change
those original shorelines. This means it is virtually certain right
now that there are undiscovered ancient ruins somewhere out there
drowning beneath the waves. We're not saying atlantis. We want
to manage expectations here. We're not saying atlantis. But we're
(01:10:17):
saying there's stuff under the water, and some of it
could be from civilizations that we have no idea about,
which I find inspiring.
Speaker 5 (01:10:26):
Dude.
Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
Yeah, and not just oceans, rivers rights, no river, but
rivers change course all the time. Places flood, and it
doesn't take long for, you know, in in an entire
area to be completely changed. We talked about we talked
about that recently with the Strait of Hormuz. We were
just imagining how did that small opening and connection between
(01:10:49):
those two larger bodies of water occur? And you know
how how long has it been there and how important
you know, just how important that strait is. Uh wow, Ben,
that's really interesting to imagine. Just along the coast of oceans.
Anybody's of water, that's where we go and those are
the places that get eroded the fastest.
Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
And what are the snake people like water? Okay, we're
just making the case.
Speaker 4 (01:11:19):
They're so versatile, they're such interesting creatures.
Speaker 2 (01:11:23):
I think we have been resting on our laurels of
having thumbs and limbs. The snake figured it out with
none of that stuff. So of course we're going to
kiss their butts a little. So is it possible that
humanity has yet to discover some previous advanced civilization? Yet?
It sure is, folks. Is it possible that these lizard
(01:11:46):
people things are based on some kernel effect? Probably not,
But again, as irritating and as tempting as it is,
there's just enough wiggle room from to have some fun
and ask, you know, what if snake people? What if
I don't know, it's Friday as we're recording.
Speaker 3 (01:12:07):
Guys, what if snakes? These Naga developed their own video
streaming service way back in the day. It was called
Naga Flicks. What do you think the programming would be
on Naga Flix. What's their stranger things?
Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
Oh well, definitely they're going to have h that top
of the carrots guy doing doing? Sure? Sure their stranger
things are going to be something like this, hang on,
let me do it apes. We've all seen them there, Harry,
they're overthumbed. But what if they could build something just
(01:12:47):
like you tonight on naga Flix?
Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
Right, what's the flick sound?
Speaker 2 (01:12:55):
Oh yeah, it's like we need something wor tone.
Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
But Dylan is going to make that incredible. I guarantee it.
Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
Oh my gosh, Dylan, we already owe you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
Man.
Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
Well, thank you for tuted in. Folks. We hope you
enjoyed this excursion into one of history's wildest conspiracy theories.
We want to hear what you think about the possibility
of undiscovered ancient civilizations. Where should humans look for them
and how should they look for them? And most importantly,
if you are a lizard person or consider yourself such,
(01:13:27):
we would love to hear from you directly. You can
always hit us up on the line. Should thou sit
the social meds, you can call us on the phone
and you can send us an email.
Speaker 4 (01:13:35):
Sure can reach out to us all over the lines
at the handle Conspiracy Stuff or Conspiracy Stuff Show, depending
on your social media platform of choice.
Speaker 3 (01:13:44):
You can give us a call. Our number is one
eight three three std WYTK. When you call in, give
yourself a cool nickname and let us know if we
can use your name and message on one of our
listener mail episodes. Bonus points if you can identify the
species that little Sneaky I had in my hands earlier
in the episode. Hopefully I just don't know. Maybe you
(01:14:08):
do give us a call. You want to send us
an email.
Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence
we receive. Now be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the
void writes back with pro quo clarice as for random fact,
to get one. We'd love to get a random fact
from you in return, So slither on over, meet us
out here in the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 3 (01:14:53):
Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the Iheartraate
medio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know News
Hosts And Creators
Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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