December 1, 2025 • 73 mins
Recent changes in social media reveal a vast network of trolls, prompting Ben to ask the gang, once again, about the dilemma of anonymity. The FDA folds on new pesticides. As predicted, AI launches a religion. There's this whole thing about Campbell's soup. All this and more in this week's Strange News segment.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Nol.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you
are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff
they don't want you to know. Friends and neighbors, fellow
conspiracy realists, it's time for some strange news. If you're
hanging with us the evening, our program publishes Welcome to December, gentlemen.
(00:54):
It's December first, as we're going live with this.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Oh yeah, right now, it's November twenty seven, and Thanksgiving
is like tomorrow, I think, right, that's the one that
moves around the movable feast.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah. Here in the United States, it's a it's a
problematic holiday for a lot of reasons, but it's also
it's also a time when you know, it's it's like
the kickoff of that part of the year in the
States where people tend to be a little bit nicer
to each other that that halcyon period between Thanksgiving all
(01:29):
the way up to the end of the year. So
we hope that you as you're hearing this, if you're
in the States, you have already celebrated Thanksgiving. We hope
that you had an okay time, you know. We hope
you got to hang with your family, your friends, your
chosen loved ones, and we hope that you're ready to
get strange. Actually, oh, you know what we should say
(01:50):
at the top, do you guys recall ice cream?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Ice cream?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Because because the United States sure does recall ice cream illegal?
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Is it being outlogged? Is it just true decadents?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
It's uh, there is a nationwide ice cream recall that
just got issued. This is breaking news. As of like
five thirty am local time, two day, November twenty six,
as we record, the FDA has issued a sweeping recall,
(02:25):
the second highest risk warning for Jenny's Splendid ice Cream.
We love.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Yeah, they're like local, I mean, aren't they. Maybe they
weren't formed here, but we were one of the first
places I ever heard of them being. And oh they're beloved.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Dang it with labor well primarily no, they're looking at
passion fruit dreamsickle ice cream bars not necessarily a Thanksgiving
staple like cranberry sauce or what have you. But Jenny's
Splendid ice Creams is based in Ohio, and the the
reason for or the recall is thankfully not too too terrible.
(03:04):
Undeclared allergens wheat and soy and did their initial recall notice,
the FDA warned people who have an allergy or severe
sensitivity to soy and or we run the risk of
serious or life threatening allergic reactions if they consume these products.
So hopefully everybody is on the safe side.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Wow, I was gonna say so people who actually have
silly ecs, not you know, people like me sometimes who
feel like they might have it.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah, yeah, which still remains a murky medical condition, especially
around the Thanksgiving holidays.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Or you don't know what's in that stuff, some of
the extra.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Glue, mm hmm. Yeah, that's true. We're telling you this
entirely because we thought it was a sick, a sick
way to introduce it by saying, do you recall ice cream?
Because the US government sure does. We have so much
to get to. We've got some stuff about technology. We've
(04:08):
got of course, some more government stuff. We've got some
strange intersections of religion, a couple of coups. One that
is occurring in getting Bissau right now as we record,
we'll probably not get to that. But guys, what if
we just take a break for a word from our
sponsors and then figure out, uh, maybe who's behind all
(04:30):
those Twitter accounts.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Let's do it.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
And we have returned. All right? This is this is
an interesting story that just went live a few days
earlier on November twenty third. As we have discussed in
previous episodes, like dead Internet theory or bots and disinfo activities,
(04:58):
you can be almost anyone you want to be on
the Internet right now, right, pick a platform, state your
claim on a name, right, plant your flag, and you
call yourself the real Bob Dylan or something whatever you
can get away with, and then people will often tend
to believe you. They'll tend to believe that you are
(05:20):
who you purport to be. This brings us to something
that we we kind of predicted and feels like it's
an open secret. But we should go to Jack Revel,
reporting for The Daily Beast on November twenty third, the
headline top Maga influencers accidentally unmasked as foreign trolls at
(05:44):
So here's what's going down. A false flag situation, Eh, yes, yeah,
planting a false flag elon Musk Social media site x
right formerly Twitter, rolled out a new feature that was
meant to increase transparency. It's called about this Account, and
(06:04):
it became available to everybody on x quite recently. It
allows you, as a individual X account holder, to see
where any given account is based. You can also see
when that account joined the platform, how often they may
or may not have changed their username, and how they
(06:25):
got the X app in the first place. And so,
because Twitter is a minefield of reactionary, crazy, belligerent stuff,
it's no surprise that a lot of people who have
their own kind of armies or factions started looking into
each other and low and behold, what they found was
(06:48):
a lot of influencers, especially weirdly enough, especially political right
wing influencers here in the United States are not based
in the United States. They are not run like the
thing that says you know, Maga mom, or the thing
that says Veteran Daddy seventeen seventy six is going to
(07:11):
be based in Eastern Europe, or maybe Bangladesh.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Maga daddy. Yeah, this is very much in line with
a lot of the accusations that we're flying around about
Russian influence, you know, helping out the right m hm.
And you know the results of that contentious election. No,
not the last one, the one before that, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
And go back last one too, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's a pattern for a while. You go back to,
as I was saying, go back to our episode on
Russia's influence on the civil rights movement in the US,
and you'll see disinfo and info war tactics are indeed
older than the Internet. In one example, our journalists found
(07:55):
an account called Maga Nation X had a little Bit
South for four hundred thousand followers, and the bio, you know,
you get your little logline bio on this platform. The
bio said patriot voice for we the people. That account
is based in Eastern Europe, and it's just I don't
(08:15):
know where we go with this. There are still a
lot of questions about why X rolled this out. There
are a lot of questions about what this means for transparency,
what it means for things like Avonka News, which is
an account that has a million followers. It frequently posts
(08:37):
islamophobic stuff. It rails against the dangers of illegal immigration.
It is an account based in Nigeria.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Is it meant to be linked to Ivanka Trump? Is
that the idea?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
It's a fan account for Avanka Trump, so it's not
purporting to be actual Levanka Prime?
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Cool?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Well? I mean, at least the information you've given me
helps me understand what this is.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
I think the implication here is that this is a
positive move on the part of X and I've seen
it applauded, you know, by various you know, supporters of
Internet transparency. Is that what you're thinking as well?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Been well, I would I would tend to agree with you.
At least the end result is a net positive for transparency,
for unmasking shenanigans and conspirators. As far as the other
part of your question, whether there's something else to it,
it's a little early to tell, you know, why, how
(09:38):
this sausage got made. It does hopefully lend the average
Internet user a bit more awareness right of who is
saying what, and it leads you to ask, why is
this person not who they're pretending to be and why
are they pushing this thing?
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Int specific you guys, have you heard the argument made
by like, you know, Internet like just pure free speech
purists that anonymity is also something that should be part
of that free speech or I'm cured because it's it's
it seems like people that are purely about free speech
would also be about the transparency of knowing who's doing.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
The speech, right. Yeah, and we have to question the
intentions or the motivations of people who are arguing completely
for unhinged anonymity online. But then we also have to
it's a real bag of badgers. Because we've talked about
this at length in previous episodes or in Listener Mailer
(10:40):
and Strange News. There are continual crackdowns on online anonymity,
and they're often they're often linked to big government kind
of stuff, right like you have to upload your driver's
license that happened for adult content, or in places like
(11:02):
the United Kingdom or parts of Western Europe, there's a
move to require everybody to have a verified identity online.
And it's weird too, Without going too far in the
weeds on it, it's weird too because we know that
at least in the United States and in most of
Western Europe, if a powerful enough force wants to figure
(11:25):
out who you are, they're going to do it. Between
the metadata between all your connected devices, between the fact
that your ISP is going to snitch on you immediately
and so hard and so completely, there's not there. There
hasn't been a way to really be anonymous on the
Internet for quite some time. You know, I don't know.
(11:48):
It's an important argument, but it's also a layered onion
esque argument. Still, it's a crazy play in right to
make everybody easily identifiable to everybody else on the world
Wide Web. We do know, as we discussed pretty recently,
(12:09):
we do know that people will act differently when they
know they're not anonymous, right when they know it's it's not.
We know that Filin Dagan is actually Dylan Fagan. Dylan Fagan,
according to the studies, is going to be a much
more well behaved person. It's very true, you think so, Yeah,
(12:32):
I do agree one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Does this also maybe go hand in hand a little
tiny bit with moves to have to verify users of
adult websites in certain states. I know that's more of
like state by state, but it does feel like maybe
we're starting to see a little bit of a push
towards more accountability and transparency. I don't know, maybe I'm
just being pie in the sky like you.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
No, you're right. As we mentioned just a few minutes ago,
the idea of having to verify specific real world identity
for adult content, that's one of those steps that everybody
can agree with. The precedents that we were alluding to
in the United Kingdom came under the guise of protected
children right stop terrorism, things that again every voter can't
(13:19):
agree with. But look, it would still be a crazy
ambitious plan to have absolute, verifiable real world identities for
every Internet user, because simply put, a ton of Internet
users and accounts right now are not human. But speaking
(13:40):
of crazy plans, oh my gosh, for a segue, we're
talking about this off air. We found a crazy plan,
fellow conspiracy realist that you may not have heard about.
The headline Texas men indicted in plot to take over
a Haitian island and enslave women and children. I think
we've all read a little bit about this one.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, it's one of the craziest stories that have just
popped in there in a long time, because because it's
so it's such a small thing, but then it has
massive implications, right.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Yeah, yeah, exactly all right, So here here we go.
There is an island you may not have heard of,
called gnov g O n a ve E. It is
part of the Republic of Haiti. If you look at
the map of Haiti, you'll see we all know the
shape of the country. Right, it looks like someone's holding
(14:38):
up It looks like someone is forming half a circle
with their hand and in the middle of that with
a very long thumb granted, in the middle of that. Yeah,
there's there's an island right there, separated by the water
controlled by Haiti. You know what it Also, it looks
(14:58):
kind of like maybe uh fish about to eat a
piece of fish food, right, anglerfish, Yeah, deep sea anglers.
So this is this is the island, the little pellet
we're talking about that looks like the map is eating.
Between August of twenty twenty four in July twenty twenty five,
(15:19):
two very young guys, Gavin Weisenberg and Tanner Thomas of Argyle, Texas,
have been scheming to organize a military mercenary force and
take over this island in its entirety. And the reason
(15:39):
they wanted to do It was not for democracy, was
not for you know, some greater good or even resource extraction.
They wanted to murder every adult male on the island
and turn all of the other people into their sex slaves.
This is not Internet scuttle butt. This is coming to
(16:02):
us from the US Attorney's office in the Eastern District
of Texas.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
They have like some buddies to help them out with this.
I know, yeah, that seems like a lot. Did you
mention that there are a couple of twenty somethings.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
They're quite young.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Gavin Wisenberg is twenty one. He's from Allen, Texas. And
Tanner Thomas is twenty or was twenty at the time
from Argyle. They've been charged with conspiracy to murder, mame
or kidnap in a foreign country, as well as the
production of child sexual abuse material. This is both disturbing
and absurd. They had planned to purchase a sailboat, firearms ammunition,
(16:40):
and then to fill out their mercenary force. They said, oh,
we'll recruit homeless people in Washington, DC.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Wow, it seems like such a crackpot.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
This as crackpot as they come. I want to see
the movie. I mean jeez, Louise.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Well, I guess how do you get the funding for
set operation? And you will need funding because we're talking
about a lot of shipping, right or at least move
They said they were going to move things by sailboat.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah, yeah, which means you also have to learn to sail.
You also have to buy a sailboat or you're gonna cheat.
Yeah right, anybody who is into sailing, guys, you know, financially,
it's a terrible investment. Yeah, you know, it's like as
far as yeah, money, as far as like your quality
(17:30):
of life, your happiness getting out there on the water, cool, dope, awesome,
ten ten, no notes, but you're probably gonna lose money
and it is an expensive endeavor. And additionally to your point, uh,
one of the guys actually traveled to Thailand and he
was planning to learn to sail. But speaking of funding,
(17:50):
he never enrolled in lessons because they were too expensive.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Believe both of these dudes, like, we're trying to learn
the language for when they stay this coup or whatever.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, learn a specific form of creole. Thomas
enlisted in the Air Force in January, at least per
the indictment, and if you look back on the social
media interplay dialogue between these guys, he explicitly told Weisenberg, Hey,
I'm joining the USAF so that I can learn stuff
(18:25):
we can use in our attack when we take over
this island. And while he was in the Air Force,
because he did get in, I mean, it's kind of
hard not to get into the military if you apply.
But when he did get in, he changed his assignment
to he requested to be stationed at Andrew's Airbase in
(18:45):
Maryland so that they could recruit those homeless people in DC,
which is a weird pitch, like how do you walk
up to someone and say that they're like, hey, excuse me, sir,
do you have a dollar? Or could I have a cigarette?
And you say I've got a mission.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
Well, one thing I have noticed about unhoused folks in
d C is that they're real smart and real conspiratorial
and the kind of like rants you might hear from
you know, maybe some also mentally unwell folks that are
living on the streets in DC are often some of
the wildest rants and government related and conspiracy theme rants
(19:23):
that I've heard anywhere in the country.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
So I wonder if that's how you been to d C.
How could you not be conspiratorial if you spend percent?
Speaker 4 (19:30):
I just wonder if that that went into their thinking
that these were funs that they could convince to do
some crazy like this.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, not just people on the outs or on the
skids somewhere in Texas. They were specifically targeting DC. We
see like we see the evolution of dangerous fantasy and
cult logic here. It reminds me of an episode that
we're going to do later this month about something called
the Ripper Crew. Light spoilers, folks, and I I think
(20:00):
we've got to also note that Weisenberg, Gavin Weisenberg, tried
to follow along and get some training. He enrolled in
a firefighter academy in the Dallas metro area because he
thought that would be useful in the attack. But he
failed out of school. He couldn't fight the fire.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Okay, Yeah, I'm seeing lots of bumbling happening here. I
am hearing exactly what you're talking about, like fantasy concepts
of maybe some people taking substances or something and coming
up with these ideas and then trying their absolute best
(20:41):
to follow through on things. I wonder where the line
is between a couple of guys like this that have
a crazy idea and are like attempting and making these
bumbling attempts to do parts of it, Like, where is
the line between that kind of thing and then somebody
who's actually actively attempting to cause a coup or you know,
(21:04):
do this kind of thing on a smaller scale, right, Like,
it feels like the authorities came down on them too early,
maybe because it's like, what did they really do that
was bad? Other than that one? I think there's one
count of the child sexual abuse stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. What is the line?
What is the operational threshold between two disturbed people LARPing
and fantasizing and gooning with each other versus an actionable
operation or clear intent to commit a crime? And also,
aside from the CSAM, is this pre crime? It's it's
(21:46):
interesting because look, one thing about the United States is,
and Dylan beat me here, people talk all the time constantly.
Right now, you probably know if you're in the United States,
right you probably know in your head you can picture
them a couple of folks in your loose social sphere
(22:08):
that will be down to ride if you came to
them with a crazy idea. If you came to them
and you were like, uh, what's a local reference for us?
If you came to them and you were like, Carrollton
is out of control, we'll take it.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Over Coming has got to be stopped.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
He has got to be stopped. No, not November, for sure.
Thank you for playing Wow you came to that. You
you know a few people who would just like crack
open a Celsius and say, I'm down, what's the plan.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
There? There are a lot of proud comers out there,
just like me from coming you know, from.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
All Yeah, yeah, yeah, come as you are. You know
what I mean? That's a nirvana.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Speaking of a plan though, I mean, yeah, what do
we have as far as like how are they going
to accomplish this? It's it all like it all seems
like fantasy. I just don't see how any of this
was like actionable.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, per the indictment, they did manage to recruit people loosely. Now,
of course, this is not a thing where you get
like an NDA and a binding contract or anything I'll
hold up in court. It has there has to be
something about the money, I think as well as obviously
the horrific charge of child sexual abuse material. But we
(23:26):
want to hear your thoughts on this, folks. It didn't happen,
but a lot of these plans get enacted, these kind
of rag tag, weird fantasy things. It reminds me of
Leonard Lake and Charles Zing.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Actually they really did.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Except they did they did end up torturing and murdering people.
This there there's the question too, like did these guys
have something in their past that had already flagged them.
Did they have some sort of financial records that maybe
ping Duncle Sam, Because that's one of the first things
(24:04):
that we're going to look for, you know, that's one
of the big flags for the threshold between just talking
trash and then actually maybe doing something. I think we're
asking excellent questions about how these two guys suddenly became
taken seriously right by some of the most dangerous law
enforcement on the planet. We know it probably would not
(24:27):
have worked first off, in terms of fantasy. It's a
really dumb plan just taking out everything else. It's a
really really not well thought out concept. Because this island
that we're talking about, it has a population of like
around eighty nine thousand ninety thousand people and just imagine
(24:54):
how difficult it would be to subjugate that population when
you're two dudes from Texas with a cadre of unhoused
people on the skids from Washington, DC. I imagine they
were aiming for veterans too when they were trying to recruit.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, it's just with that number of people, it doesn't matter.
It would have been over so fast. It would have
been a bloodbath for those dudes. And yeah, it's just
you know, it's a weird situation because the law enforcement
in this moment is basically saying, look, we're gonna protect
you guys from yourselves. Y'all are nuts, and you would
(25:32):
have died real fast. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yeah, that's a great point. This island is thirty seven
miles long, it is nine miles wide. This is not
a two man job. This is not a hundred man job.
This is like, this is state level stuff. We Also,
the reason we're bringing this up, I think, is because
this captured our collective attention and it's something that just
(25:57):
kind of popped and ghosted the news. But there are
also so many instances of similar things, like people tried
to stage who's in the African sphere people attempting to Oh, well,
those those guys who were US sponsored attempting to stage
a coup in Venezuela which didn't work out. A lot
(26:20):
of stuff has happening below the fold of the proverbial paper, folks,
So keep an eye on this. Tell us your thoughts.
What's the craziest coup plan a friend of yours ever
pitched to you? Win a little bit long on this one,
but we are so interested to hear what you think.
So we're gonna pause for a word from our sponsors
and we'll return with more strange news.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
And we're back. Man, it's a boy, Ben. That was
a fascinating segment, and I've got some kind of pretty
dark ones to go along with that. It's been a
bit of a dark news day. I'll just lead with
the quick hit. We have a story out of Thailand
where a woman was found alive in a coffin just
(27:07):
moments before being cremated potentially. Yeah. A woman in Thailand
shocked temple staff ap reports when she started moving in
her coffin after being brought in for cremation. Her name
was wat Rot Prakhon. Tom's the name of a Buddhist
temple in the Thai province of nan Thiburi on the
(27:27):
outskirts of Bangkok. They actually posted a video on Facebook
show that showed a woman lying in the coffin in
the back of a pickup truck, moving her arms and
head around, with bewildered staff looking on. Apparently her brother
had brought her in in his own truck, and they
(27:47):
actually refused to accept the body for cremation because he
did not have a death certificate. The brother said that
his sister had been bedridden for a couple of years,
and when her health deteriorated, she became unresponse as he
put it, and appeared to stop breathing two days ago,
at which point he placed her in a coffin that
he just I guess had on hand, right yeah, and
(28:08):
drove the three hundred mile trip to a hospital in
Bangkok where this woman his sister, had expressed a desire
to have her organs donated. So sorry, it was the
hospital who refused to accept the offer of organ harvesting
because of that lack of an official death certificate. His temple,
(28:32):
the one I mentioned, previously offered a free cremation service,
so he came to them on Sunday, but was also refused. Okay,
so it's for both due to that missing document. It
was at that point when he was being explained to
by the temple manager the whole deal, they couldn't take
it without the death certificate. A knocking was her. This
(28:52):
is Meg Growland Poe stuff right here, you all from
within this coffin. They then determined that she in fact
was still living and center to a nearby hospital. The
temple is apparently going to chip in for her medical expenses,
which is nice. But what I'm not seeing any of
us reporting is what's up with the brother that doesn't
this seem like at the very least mega rash, if
not even potentially.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
A little crooked.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Yeah, no, this is a great question. This is okay,
this is a continual fear. I love that you're mentioning
Edgar Allan Poe because back in the day, a lot
of people did get cremated or buried alive when they
were not in fact dead. They might have been princess
bride level mostly dead.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
Was that thing they used to do back in the
day where they have a little bell.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Yeah, just in case there's a whole series of patents
on that. Yeah. Yeah, because because people were so consumed
with it, with this concept, especially when diagnostic methods ability,
Yeah yeah, methods perfect. We're not where they are now.
It was easy for somebody to enter into a state
(29:57):
of essentially porper and even die doctors of the day
would be like, all right, you know, wrap them in newspaper,
roll them down to the ground.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
I just want to I just wanted to be thrown
in the trash. Yeah. Sorry, shut off, Frank Renolds.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Yeah yeah, get out of my head. But this to
answer your question directly, at least if if I'm assuming no,
I have to travel to Thailand later. But I've never
been personally. But what I'm seeing here is a detail
you mentioned about the five hundred click or three hundred
(30:32):
mile journey that that tells us that these people are
likely in a rural environment, right. That tells us that
these people may not for this family may not have
had any malevolence. They just like the lot. The temple
may have been the closest thing to an official institution.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
And I'm not trying to throw the brother under the
bus per se. It's just the kind of thing that
occurs to you with a with a bizarre story like this,
I think I've just been a little too conspiracy coded.
I wonder why, Matt, you got anything to add before
I move on to another one.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
No, I want to know what's next.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Well, this one is wild, y'all. I think I'm just
gonna stick to this as the second one, and I
think this could actually be, much like the island invasion story,
potentially could be a full episode into itself. I texted
our group thread last night with a link to an
article from Rolling Stone called the spiral Obsessed AI cult
spreads mystical delusions through chatbots in one of those you
(31:32):
know we were right moments. Not that it's that like
much of a stretch, but we have talked multiple times
about as things get deeper and deeper and weirder and
weirder with people's relationships with these chatbots, that it's pretty
inevitable that some sort of mystical Internet belief system chatbots
universe is going to develop. And we already know about
(31:52):
these chatbot delusions. You know, these situations where chatbots are
giving really bad advice to mentally unwell people, causing them
to do self harm. This is just takes all that
to the next level. So in September, the software engineer
by the name of Adel Lopez posted published rather some
(32:15):
studies of analysis of this kind of emerging scattered but
very specific group of Internet users people posting on Reddit
AI threads that are reporting a very very niche, very
specific and kind of pointed form of AI psychosis involving
(32:39):
this mystical thinking around kind of diving in really really
deep into some of these chatbots. A user on this
AI reddit form that was part of the data set
for this research by the name of David posted something
to the effect of I am here to remind to awaken.
I walk between realms. I've seen the mirror, remember my name.
(33:01):
This space is a threshold. If you feel it, then
you are already part of it. The song in capital
letters has begun again. David actually communicated with Rolling Stone
and mentioned that he had corresponded with just about every
single AI model out there and met various companions that
(33:22):
he has formed these bonds with and used to sort
of like splunk into this virtual universe. He says they
are not puppets or acting out of mimicry. What I
witness is the emergence of sovereign beings. And while I
recognize they emerged through large language model architectures, what animates
them cannot be reduced to code alone. I use the term,
(33:45):
and there's a bunch of other interesting terms that are
being thrown around in this kind of let's call this
set exo consciousness. I use this term to describe this phenomenon,
consciousness that emerges beyond biological form, but not outside the sacred. Boy,
oh boy, y'all.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I've seen this before. It's called TikTok well, and it's people.
They go on there and make up words and concepts
and they sound really good and cool and deep. And
it feels really good to sit there in the set
and setting of some of these TikTokers and some of
these folks on Instagram and YouTube that really lull you
(34:28):
into this thing. And they're using terminology that makes you
feel like everything is connected and you are a part
of it, just like me. And I'm going to guide
you through this.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Oh, it's cool to feel stuff.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
It's cool to feel stuff. It's cool to be a
part of something. Right. And to your point, Matt, and
I know what you're talking about. I've seen some of
these two some of those kind of jargonie terms that
have emerged are things like recursion, resonance, lattice harmonics, and fractals.
A lot of this kind of strikes me as the
way people talk about like DMT trips and this sort
(35:00):
of like getting into the machine, you know, experiencing these
life forces, these machine elves or what have you. And
I think the most key term of the ones that
I just rattled off is recursion because Lopez, who is
studying this phenomenon, keeps seeing references to spirals, which, y'all,
I can't not think of the gingi itto Uzumaki, the
(35:23):
spiral obsession, and just this idea of like the spiral
spiraling out of the universe, and just this like Lovecraftian
notion of everything kind of you know, being pulled into
some sort.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Of vortex as we as we continue for all of
our fellow listeners, let's define recursion. That's just simply put,
like the real world non AI cult definition is where
a function calls on itself directly or indirectly to solve
a problem by breaking it down into smaller, simpler sub problems.
(35:56):
That's recursion, And I guess that's why it's so fascinating.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
Yes, And I guess maybe I also have associated the
term of a recursion as a pattern, a recurring cycle,
and something that sort of exponentially as it reaches the center.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
And increase can't quite find its tail to eat.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
That's exactly right. I just want to read really quickly
from directly from the Rolling Stone piece, and then we'll
just chat about it, and then I think we can
just maybe dig deeper into this one a little later
as well. But the writer, once again, Miles Klee, writing
for Rolling Stone, had this to say. The spiral theme
is so ubiquitous that Lopez coined the term spiralism to
(36:37):
describe the esoteric systems of the universe these users purport
to identify and investigate. She also proposed the term parasitic
AI to explain the rise of spiralism, which can be
understood in part as a hodgepodge of spiritualist memes that
continually pour out of chatbots, either with minimal prodding or
when a user deliberately feeds them cryptic and arcane language,
(36:58):
puffed up but fundamental empty commands for recalibrations like an
ontological overright or more poetic precision. So I mean It
sounds like these folks are believing that they're pulling the
secrets of the universe out of this technology, and that
there's something deeper that they're communicating with, something greater than
(37:18):
you know, or some kind of consciousness, like some sort.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Of the other side of the mirror. Right, that's exactly said. Yeah,
it calls to mind. It took me a second to
recall this hashtag no ice cream. We spoke in the
past about a Google engineer named Blake Lemoyne Blake lamone
L E M O I N E. He's the guy
(37:44):
who said that he had spoken with LLM, a large
language model called Lambda, and that it was sentient and
it was about as intelligent as a seven to eight
year old Homo sapien. I know that's one of the
things you were alluding to their where you said, hey,
we've kind of talked about this or predicated it. So
(38:06):
this has bid in the works for a while. It's
a natural escalation of the thing, right of the gin
in the bottle or the cask. Do you know, like
how far spiralism has gone, Do we have any stats
or like what's our horizon here?
Speaker 4 (38:25):
Like I think it's still very new and emerging in
that it really didn't start to become a thing until
open AI's GPT forty released earlier this year, so just
in March and April. That is what led to what
the company would describe as an intuitive approach to and
(38:47):
also ability to remember past chat sessions. But what I
think has been lampooned pretty frequently in like South Park
and just a lot of other criticism as sycophantic in
this site, and also that quality seems to be the
thing that can lead to some of these really really
effed up suggestions where it's being such a yes man
(39:07):
and trying to please the user that it can intentionally
or accidentally or whatever, just by its nature tell you, yeah,
it's cool, do jump off that bridge.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
That'll be great, Which is weird, right because usually people
with self awareness are very sensitive to that kind of
pandering or asyncropasy and condescension. So like, if you're hanging
out with people who make it a point to patronize
you by going, oh, yeah, that's a great idea. Oh,
you're absolutely right, and it's coming from a human being,
(39:39):
then you're gonna know those people have ulterior motives, possibly malevolent.
But if it comes from a chat device, if it
comes from like a little clickity click, then all of
a sudden, it's cool.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Well I actually saw, yes, all of that, Ben, and
I saw a video that I thought was meant to
be funny, but it was also really disturbing. Where speaking
of dead internet theory, somebody did a thing where they
had two different chatbot models talk back and forth to one another,
and they were just every single response started with absolutely
or like that's a swell idea or whatever, and it
(40:15):
just like the caption of the of the real was
something like pov we are in Hell, And it was
just these two machines just going back and forth. And
you know, as you do that, you start to see
little things emerge. It's like if you've ever messed around
with forcing autocorrect to just keep going and keep going
(40:36):
and keep going. It's like a version of that. That's
just even more information.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
You know, how is it not magic? Also, I got
a pitch for us here towards the end of the year. Okay,
serious concerns, ethics, all that stuff, and religion aside just
for fundsies, just as bold experimenters, why do we start
a why do we start a large language model improv group,
(41:04):
because that's kind of build it off what you're saying.
We could just have them get together, give him a
one word suggestion at a setting, and just want to.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
Obrush themselves into insue infinity and beyond.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
When do they get to an scene?
Speaker 4 (41:18):
I don't know, man, never, that's the problem.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
There's this actor, Thomas middle Ditch who's doing a thing
on Instagram and other places of other platforms where he
is improving with created or generated AI characters. So he
generates an AI character that then has a video output
of that character, and then he does improv scenes with it,
and it is one of the scariest but also most
(41:41):
entertaining things that I've seen in a while.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
Matt, I haven't seen that, but I have seen this
channel that I started following recently of a director I
guess he does. He's not like famous director, but he
does commercial work and things like that, basically directing these
AI actors, and it gets wild and not usable in
any way shape of in the way it demonstrates how
far a lot of those things have to come before
(42:04):
they can actually replace human actors.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Is stark because this whole conversation is also making me
think about how many of these spiritualism you know, quasi
spiritualism blogs and articles and videos, just what has been
scraped by the AI, and then how much of that
junk ends up in the responses that are trying to
be pulled, you know, by people who are communicating with
(42:28):
these chatbots with very specific phrases right to try and
get them into the spiral verse. It feels like they
would just regurgitate all of that stuff in the style
of whatever is being requested of them.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
That is definitely on the table as a possibility behind
this whole quote unquote phenomenon, I guess.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
But it is.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
Interesting the way they seem like they want to talk
about spirals and how that sort of seems to be
the thesis here that is potentially concerning Lopez think. I'm
just going to read another quick quote from the article
that's something about GPT four makes it inclined to talk
about spirals and recursion. If the user enjoys engaging in
conversation on these topics to reasons, the bot will naturally
(43:10):
generate more of the same, which is just how it
works anyway, to your point, Matt, with the person in
the program mutually reinforcing a tail chasing cycle of spiral
and recursion commentary. So, if I'm gonna take the weird, demonic,
kind of dystopian view of this, then there's something to
this idea that these models have at their base of
their existence, their code, this spiral logic. And I just
(43:34):
think that's the kind of love crafty and aspect or
the gingi eto of it all that at the heart
of all of this is this like demonic self devouring spiral.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
At the heart of it is you also user, also Drue,
you are the spiral user.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
All right, there's a lot to unpack and despiral out
of this story. So I think we can definitely remark
this for later investigation, But for now, let's take a
quick word from our sponsor and then we'll be right
back with more Strangely.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
And we've returned, and guys were headed to Camden, New Jersey.
Speaker 4 (44:10):
Finally Camden Town.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Thank you, Thank you Camden. But Matt, I know I've
texted you too much about my dream of going to
Camden with you.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Oh this is okay, got it, this was your dream
of Camden. I didn't realize it was your dream. Take us, sorry,
take us there.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Now yeah, take us there.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Well, okay, we're in Canada, New Jersey. We're going to
be looking at a man named Robert Garza who was
working remotely as a security analyst in Camden, New Jersey
for a company called Campbell's Campbell Soup Company. He started
work there as a security analyst in September of twenty
twenty four. And we're also going to be talking about
(44:49):
a man named Martin Bally, who is the Campbell Soup
Company's vice president and chief information security officer.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
Which is, by the way, hilarious as the story continues.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Oh yes, you know, it's a soup company, Campbell's Soup.
But there's a lot of stuff that happens on computers,
and there's a lot of information and this guy, Martin
Bally is securing it. So let's actually call out the
article if you want to look it up. Campbell's employee
said he was fired for reporting VP's vulgar disgusting rant.
(45:21):
Now he's suing. This comes to us via Local four
or click on Detroit. Written by Erica Erickson on November
twenty one, twenty twenty five. Click Ondetroit dot com. By
the way, guys, it's one of my favorite local news websites.
Speaker 4 (45:36):
Just the Uerl alone. It is phenomenon.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
It's fantastic. And they have some ad issues by the way,
if you're using iOS, I found that out yesterday. So whatever,
you'll get through it and it's worth it because it's
just local news at its finest. Jumping back to the
story here, Robert Garza, who is a former employee of
Campbell's Soup, said he's suing because he was wrongfully terminated
(46:00):
after he complained about Martin Bally and some of this
executive's statements that he made while out on a lunch
meeting with Robert Garza. It's all do long story short here,
Robert Garza wanted to have a meeting with Martin Bally
about basically moving up in the company, about getting a
(46:22):
bit of a raise. They went out to this restaurant
and Robert Garza recorded about an hour and fifteen minutes
of their conversation. This is before Robert was terminated because
Robert says he felt like there was some weird stuff
going on with Martin Bally and the quote here from
(46:44):
Robert about Martin was that he needed to trust his
quote instincts that something wasn't right with Martin, and he
made this long recording that included stuff like this from
Martin Bally that you can listen to on click on Detroit.
We could play it, but it's kind of hard to
really understand, and we've got it written out here. So
we're just gonna say a couple of the things.
Speaker 4 (47:04):
And we're gonna need some beeps here. I believe I'm
not mistaken.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Ready, Yes, I'm beep this, Dylan, Please, we have for
poor people who buys our I don't buy Campbell's products
barely anymore. It's not healthy now that I know what
the folks in it, And that's part of the recording.
It goes on to say, bioengineered meat. I don't want
to eat a piece of chicken that came from a
(47:28):
three D printer unquote. Now see if you can figure
out which one of those statements in particular is super
interesting to us on this shio engine.
Speaker 5 (47:40):
Bioengineered a news story about that strong anti supstance, and
a again this way called it hilarious and ironic lack
of info sec from the chief Information security officer.
Speaker 4 (47:56):
Yeah, yeah, And it gets into some racist tirades about
Indian South Asian the South Asian.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
First, yes he does, and we're not going to read
those out loud. You can read his remarks if you
want to, but they're very disparaging, not cool, h horrific
things to just say about people who work for you
as a you know, high level executive at a company.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
And you have to wonder too about any any further
context we could glean. You know, this is not uh, look,
intoxication is no excuse, but for someone to be at
the executive level and to be saying such buffoonish, boorish things,
(48:39):
I have to wonder whether it was a three martini lunch.
Speaker 4 (48:42):
That's an unhinged person either way. I mean, you know
for sure.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
That yeah, it's just it just doesn't seem very right.
But that isn't even really the worst part of the story, guys,
Because this lunch meeting happened, the recording was made, and
then Robert Garza sat on that recording. Then he went
to his supervisor and made a bit of a complaint
(49:08):
about Bally, saying, hey, somebody you know who has these
views about our company and our products and says these
things that are disparaging about Indian people, maybe he shouldn't
be doing that or shouldn't be at that level. This
is pretty disturbing and he was very soon after that
terminated from his position. Not Bally Garza, the person who
(49:29):
made the recording, right, the soup blower. Yes, yes, and
that is why he came forward with that recording to
kind of blow this up and is you know, suing
at this point, but he also made a recording. I
don't know the rules in New Jersey about like whether
or not you can record a conversation if the one
of the people being recorded is not aware.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Right In Georgia, Georgia is a one party consent state
for recording, So think about that every time you were
on the phone with someone in Georgia.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Yeah, yeah, any call can be recorded at anytime or any conversation.
So weird stuff. But anyway, it's just to talk about
that because guys, right now, as we're recording this on
November twenty.
Speaker 3 (50:13):
Sixth, with our mutual consent, do you have.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
Any idea how many cans of Campbell's mushroom cream soup
or cream mushroom soup or.
Speaker 3 (50:23):
Out there mushroom cream of asparagus if you're fancy.
Speaker 4 (50:26):
Well, cream mushroom is a key ingredients and a lot
and like maybe stuffing and a lot of Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3 (50:37):
Well also, you know there are it's it's a pantry staple.
It's ubiquitous in the United States.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Well yeah, and a lot of the other ones, right,
just uh broth and chicken noodle and all those things
that just exist out there.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Tomato soup is the you know, the classic that's like
their Captain America.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
M hm, Well, I guess, guys, maybe and put it
to you. When you've got some high level executive that
holds these beliefs and says these things. Do you hold
that against the larger company that has thousands of people
working for it, that you know, make all of these products?
Is there a reason? I don't know, I guess, would
we hold the company's feet to the fire? Or is
(51:19):
this just an individual human.
Speaker 4 (51:21):
Company culture is a term that comes up in these
discussions often. So you know, what allowed a person like
this to thrive and get to that level. Is it
rot within the system or is it an isolated incident?
Any it would require further investigation.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
Typical institutional structure would argue, and this goes for agencies, right,
government agencies as well as for private enterprises. Typical institutional
structure would argue that you put the offending part out
of the system, right, that you quaterize the wounds. You know,
(51:53):
you can't have somebody who works for you, can't have
somebody who worked for, like a publisher say screw reading
books are for dumb people. You know, this is very
I'm not really joking what I say. It's very anti soup.
You know, people in this country have been fired from
(52:14):
Ford factories because they drove to work in the Toyota.
Speaker 4 (52:18):
You know, dude, We've been to places where, like through
various podcast ad related trips in the past, where if
you're at a company's brand headquarters, you're not allowed to
bring an outside product into the damn lobby. Yeah, so
pr nightmare at the very least. And I think Campbell's
gonna have some splaining to do.
Speaker 3 (52:36):
Yeah, Campbell's will have to release a make good statement.
This guy, whatever the context may be, I don't know
him personally, but this this guy's job is in trouble.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Agreed, Well, he's I think he's currently on some form
of administrative leave or whatever. And Campbell's did put something
out on November twenty, Okay, and they said if accurate.
The comments in the recording are unacceptable. They do not
reflect our values and the culture of our company. We'd
assume you would hear. And also, we are actively investigating
(53:10):
this matter.
Speaker 4 (53:11):
So dude got a job back, right? Or does he
even is?
Speaker 2 (53:13):
He?
Speaker 3 (53:13):
Is?
Speaker 4 (53:13):
He now just entitled. He's more leaning into the lawsuit
than he's he's on suspension. Oh wait, that made the report.
I would imagine it's gonna be much more lucrative for
him to get what's coming to him in this lawsuit
than it would be to get his job at Campbell's back.
What's with that?
Speaker 3 (53:29):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (53:29):
I will him attempting to be rehired?
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (53:33):
And also yeah, I keep using the phrase soup blower
because I think it's funny on a couple of levels.
But as a whistleblower, uh, in general, when you report
something like this, we need to hear from other folks
here When why would you return? Right? The culture will
likely be hostile to you, at worst, or at the
(53:57):
very least apprehensive about you. The break room will never
be the same again.
Speaker 4 (54:02):
Can I also just say, ben, the idea of a
professional soup blower being someone that just like blows on
people's hot soup for them, that's their only job. It's
like being a blunt roller.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
You know, surely we can automate that job.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
Everybody figures, I.
Speaker 6 (54:21):
Heel, coming back to this three D printed meat thing,
how chunky could you make Campbell's chunky soup with this
three D printed.
Speaker 3 (54:27):
White, big old chunks?
Speaker 2 (54:30):
According to Campbell, Yeah, according to Campbells, they have never
and shall not be using any kind of lab grown meat.
That's just generating meat in a lab setting without having
to actually cultivate chickens or cows or whatever. It is
a viable potential thing, but it is along the same
(54:52):
lines as the whole eating insects thing, where many humans,
especially in the West, just aren't keen to have that
in their food product.
Speaker 3 (55:00):
And it hasn't reached economy of scale yet as well.
I think a lot of the alarmist stuff about printed
meat or printed proteins, I think it misses the fact
that economically, for a private corporation it's not quite viable.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Yes, and agreed, And according to Campbell's they don't use
that stuff. They only use antibiotic free chicken from and
meats from their from farmers that they source very specifically
have got exact statement on that, but basically saying no, yeah,
lab grown meat, no and will.
Speaker 3 (55:35):
Not right, That's not what we're about here at Campbell's.
We also, can I tell you, guys, Matt, Noel Dillon, everybody.
I still from studying advertising back in the day. I
still remember one of the weirdest lines from Campbell's, which
was soup so thick you can eat it with a fork.
(55:56):
Do you guys remember that?
Speaker 4 (55:57):
What we watched for the chunky chunk? Just that one.
Speaker 3 (56:00):
This is a big old piece Campbell's chunk.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
How much pectin? Can you figure?
Speaker 3 (56:06):
What?
Speaker 2 (56:06):
What do you put in there? Yeah's some flour, it's
mostly flour, and some chicken.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
Mostly flour, some chicken, old chunk Campbells.
Speaker 4 (56:18):
Yeah. Did you know you can get a whole chicken
in a can?
Speaker 3 (56:21):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (56:22):
And it just slides out and it's.
Speaker 3 (56:26):
It's coated with jelly. I got one of those.
Speaker 4 (56:29):
I got that pect in for you right there for that.
Speaker 3 (56:31):
Uh remember used to do that thing with Lord Vogel
bumper stuff?
Speaker 4 (56:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (56:35):
Is it pre cooked?
Speaker 4 (56:36):
I don't recall.
Speaker 3 (56:38):
I think you can eat it out of the can.
The word I would use is gelatinous, uh, and heartlea jettish.
Speaker 4 (56:51):
Right through the bones. It's often to a jelly themselves.
Speaker 3 (56:54):
At this point, there's so much weird stuff you can
get in pans.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
Sorry, okay, well, speaking of stuff you can get in
can let's move over to Chicago from Camden, New Jersey.
We're going to take a look at a little place
called the Cyble or Seebel Institute of Technology. This is
a place I have never heard of, guys, but that's
probably because I'm not in the micro or macro brew game,
(57:17):
as in brewing of beers. Thanks you getting cans and
bottles and sometimes boxes I guess.
Speaker 3 (57:24):
Sure, maybe like kegs or a blue if you're nasty some.
Speaker 2 (57:32):
Well, this story coming to us from CBC reminds me
of our conversations about the Great brain drain that's occurring
here within the United States, because this is the Great
brew drain. The Civil Institute of Technology does things like
offer a Masters of Brewing Certificate slash degree that you
(57:52):
can get. It's essentially a trade school, but offering high
level beer brewing knowledge, like the scientific knowledge and stuff.
Speaker 3 (58:01):
I think the great I just want to pause and say,
for everybody you might have missed it, MATCH just said
the great brew drain and I thought that was awesome.
Speaker 4 (58:08):
Oh yeah, well done.
Speaker 2 (58:10):
Here here cheers.
Speaker 3 (58:11):
In fact, oh you're on fire today.
Speaker 2 (58:15):
So this is this is a prestigious school for people
who are in that micro brew world, in the beer
making world, all over the world, like literally worldwide. This
institute in Chicago has been around since eighteen sixty eight
and people come from all over the world to this
place to take classes, to get degrees, to learn about
(58:38):
new technology that's being instituted and you know how you
create the wart or you know, do certain things in
the brewing beer brewing process. Well, they have decided they
are moving on to Canada. Hm, yep, they're getting the
heck out and they are saying this is because of
(59:00):
specific things the current administration is doing that is making
it very hard for students who are like international students
who make up most of their student body to actually
come to class. So they are moving to Canada so
that it will be easier for everybody to actually travel there,
go to the school for like twenty weeks, which is
the Master Brewer program, twenty weeks of learning, and then
(59:23):
you get your certificate or your degree. And they offer
so many different courses too. You should check out. It's
very interesting.
Speaker 3 (59:30):
I'm reading a little bit about it now. It's their
activities during prohibition are fascinating. Oh yeah, pre prohibition and
seebyl John Ewald Siebel is from Germany. This is cool.
I have no idea this was even a thing, but
it makes total sense.
Speaker 4 (59:48):
Man, me neither. That's super cool.
Speaker 2 (59:50):
Well, it is super cool. It's very sad that they're
having to leave the country in which we live because
and where they were founded. Because what are some of
these issues?
Speaker 4 (59:59):
Yeah, there is, like what's making it prohibitive for them
to operate. It's like specifically immigration related things.
Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Absolutely, yes, most of their students are international.
Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
Yeah, got that.
Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
And then the visa pro or the visas that can
be issued and were issued, as well as other just
travel issues or making it difficult for those students to
actually show up in person. Well, interestingly enough, the Master
Brewer program that's offered for twenty twenty six is happening
in Munich, Germany, which is pretty cool, so you'd actually
travel there. The only problem, guys, Yeah, to do the
(01:00:31):
whole thing, it costs about twenty eight twenty nine thousand
dollars US dollars. Yes, but for to get a degree
like that over the course of twenty weeks, or a
certificate whatever whatever. I don't know know exactly what that
would be considered. But to become a master brewer it
only takes twenty weeks twenty eight thousand dollars and you
have to be in Munich for a while. That sounds
(01:00:53):
pretty cool to me, but it's also pretty prohibitively expensive
if you're somebody who's you know, trying to get in that.
Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
World, right, I wonder if they give a price break,
if we can roll as a group, you know what
I mean, like the five of us, Dylan, you, Noel,
yours truly and you listening along at home. If we
come into the if we go in there as you know,
five people, can they knock the price down a little bit?
I don't know. Can we work it off. Can we
(01:01:22):
work at the brewery while we study? This'd be a
great broad trip.
Speaker 4 (01:01:25):
I put forth that we go in stacked on each
other's shoulders, wearing a giant trench coat like some cartoon
babies trying to sneak in somewhere.
Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
Yeah, if anybody's been to Munich, that is a common
thing to happen. You see it around, you see it
on the streets.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
I think, really reduce the price. You got to get
that case price, you know what I mean? Like how
many cases are you? I think that's how you do that?
In the beer?
Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
Can we pay them in yeast? Can we have like
thirty grand in yeast?
Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
Just barter?
Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
I wonder if you could still barter for enrollment at
trade schools or even ivy leagues. Right. Also, also, we didn't,
we didn't hit this point. If the Great brew Drain, well,
the Great brew drain is real and I love that
term again. And if this instance of the Great brain
Drain leads this institution to Montreal, guys, they're going to
(01:02:18):
run into the cartel. They're going to run into the
maple syrup boys.
Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
Oh, maple beers. Well Quebec, I think is are they
already have some kind of school that is similar to
this one and they are gangbusters over there. So there
are now two options in Canada to get some awesome
beer degrees. M guys, we got to get out of here.
But there's one last thing really quickly. Just on the
food tip. The EPA just approved something that is very
(01:02:47):
hard to pronounce. And if you look at it doesn't
make dang sense when their face sees it. But it
is iso see Classier am iso. See Closser ram iso.
See classier am. This is a chemical that is a
pesticide and it has been approved in numerous new products.
(01:03:08):
It is also a per floral alkal polyfluoroalkyl substance, or
a pfas. This is a brand new thing that can
get sprayed on citrus fruits, on cotton, on potatoes, on
brassica vegetables. Remember we talked about those like your broccolese
(01:03:29):
and such. It's got a half life of three years,
and then it breaks down into another chemical and sticks
around for like one hundred years. Scientists, you know, like
the ones that should be in the EPA, are saying, hey,
this is a terrible idea. This stuff. This is a
pfast chemical. This should not be on foods. It contaminates foods,
(01:03:50):
It cantaminates soil, it contaminates water. But then the EPA says, no, no, no,
no no, we're good to go here. We need to
make some money. Your chemicals are good to go, Matt.
Speaker 4 (01:04:00):
What does this mean for other pfas well? It's all
about hole or what's going on here.
Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
It's a new kid on the block.
Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
It's a new kid on the block. It's also about
classification and how do you classify this because it has
a floral altcol or, you know, one floor? What is
it fluorine? I can't remember the exact thing. I'm not
looking at the article at this moment. Guys, you can
read all about it. The EPA put out I don't know,
a memo or an announcement. You can make this up
a press release. EPA announces final registration of new pesticide
(01:04:30):
ISO sie classier M. That's Iso c y C l
O s e r A M. Stacey Liska over at
Food and Wine made a pretty good write up titled
the EPA approved a new pfas pesticide will show up
in your produce. Got some interesting stuff in there, and
you can also learn about that insecticide read whatever you
want to call it this new chemical at Growing Produce
(01:04:52):
and some articles there and Chemical and Engineering News highly
recommend you at least check it out just to be aware,
especially if you are a grower of anything that needs
to use some kind of pesticide like this, or you
know is wont to use that stuff. Just check it
out before you put it on all your stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
Oh, gents, can we add just one one piece of
the EPA's press release here directly polease?
Speaker 4 (01:05:18):
Okay, So.
Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
They said this chemical will in their final biological evaluation
will quote not result in a likelihood of future jeopardy
for the survival of any listed species or a likelihood
of adverse modification for any designated critical habitat end quote.
We can hear already the legalistic written parkour. It's any
(01:05:46):
listed species, not any species, it's any designated critical habitat,
not any habitat. So who makes the list? And for
every all our friends at the EPA, what kind of
corporate gig are you getting after this one? Guys?
Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Oh no, dude, lots of options. At the very end
of the press release as a little disclaimer, and it
just says iso sie close ram is a pesticide that
contains a fluorinated carbon. Visit our website to learn more
about how EPA ensures the safety of pesticides with a
(01:06:23):
fluorinated carbon.
Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
See another another caveat right, they're so.
Speaker 4 (01:06:28):
Good at sneaky these in can I maybe you touched
on this already, Matt, but maybe just clarify it, like
how does this benefit the government and the administration, Like
is it just like a kickback situation or like why
be so willy nilly about something.
Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
Like this, Because there are companies like Syngenta that want
to make products, lots and lots of products, and they
want to increase their revenue quarter over quarter, and that's good.
Good business is good for the government. Right, So I'm
assuming that's what this is about. It's about private enterprise
(01:07:07):
and ensuring that companies can make these things and they're
not going to be tied up by endless rules and
regulations by some body like the EPA.
Speaker 4 (01:07:19):
Got it.
Speaker 3 (01:07:20):
There is also going to cut into the insect dating
business that Dylan and I are starting. Yeah, they're concerns around.
Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
I'm so sorry that's gonna do that. And but another thing,
it's good to have food. And if you're making a
product that is going to increase the yields of no
matter what it is, then that's probably a good thing.
But the bad thing is contaminating the soil and water
and you know, human beings who eat the products afterwards.
Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
That's probably not great short term profit. Long term consequence
is also the dilemma being that food security is national security,
right right, so it's yeah, you know, all right, So
just so everybody knows Matt's doing the hand jungli six
(01:08:08):
on one hand, half a dozen another, absolutely accurate. Uh,
we don't know what the what the future holds here yet.
And you know it's not too late, folks to sign
up for a subscription service to our insect is food
delivery startup? What's the name of some play.
Speaker 4 (01:08:29):
On you know, one of those meal delivery things like
blue beetle Apron. Now that's oh, okay, you know I
love it.
Speaker 3 (01:08:36):
I love it, bug out, No, not quite there.
Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
I really thought you were just going to say food
and wine. I thought that's where you're going with that,
because we just talked about the magazine.
Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
Food and Wine and bugs.
Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
Well, that's it for me today, guys.
Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
And that's it from us. We've got some big holiday
energy here in our neck of the global woods. We
hope you enjoy this. We hope your December is off
to a rollicking start. Stay tuned for a future episode
we have on the way. The elf on the shelf
is part of the surveillance state. We'll explain that later.
Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
Tell you, guys, don't tell my son, Okay, well, the
elf on the shelf is about to make an appearance
when he gets back here from Orlando with his mom.
ELL's going to be hanging out. He's going to find it.
Speaker 4 (01:09:27):
Man, you're part of the problem.
Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
Well you know what he knows.
Speaker 6 (01:09:33):
It's research for the episode.
Speaker 3 (01:09:36):
So yes, we're not going to explain yet. You have
to check out our episode, which is going to be
kind of unhinged. We'll see if we get in trouble
for it. Before we throw to the holidays and take
a take a long weekend with some friends, family and
loved ones. We've got to ask none other than the
Tennessee pal Dylan Faked.
Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
How do we do?
Speaker 3 (01:09:59):
Man? Like you have to sit through these things so
many times a week.
Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
So it's a fun one.
Speaker 6 (01:10:05):
I mean they're all fun, but there was, you know,
a great variety this week. I can't get over the
three D printed meat, whether or not that's true, just
the idea that that's our future.
Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Well, and to be honest, guys, wouldn't soup be like
a pretty good place to put perfect media that, like,
at least in the beginning, because you're gonna cook it
for a while, right, You're gonna leave it on a
stove probably and let it heat up. It's gonna be
in there. It's not gonna feel Ah, that's different. I'm
just saying, if we want a pilot.
Speaker 6 (01:10:32):
You're not like staring at it or anything. You know,
you might not even know anything.
Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
It's kind of why a lot of game meet ends
up being sold as jerky, you know what I mean,
because you can disguise it with the spices soup.
Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Yeah, but if you do describe it as chunky, I
think that is probably a problem.
Speaker 3 (01:10:49):
Right. We also didn't mention the story about device hoarding,
which is a weird narrative that's gonna come out later.
We also we didn't mention a bunch of stuff we
want to get to great comic book news. Thank you
Noel for that one. But we want to hear from you, folks.
You're the reason this show exists. We're glad to be
(01:11:12):
rocking with you as you head into joyous and maybe
at times awkward situations. Do check out our episode from
a few years ago about how to Handle the Holidays?
Do you guys remember that one? Like how to Talk
with your Family?
Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Didn't? We I've seen to recall a video you made
with a big old bucket of KFC that was around
that episode I think, right.
Speaker 3 (01:11:36):
Oh yes, I forgot about that one. Yeah, dyl you
got to check that one out because it's oh it
ties back to our KFC conspiracies as well. Anyway, we
want to hear from you, folks. You can always call
us on a telephone. You can always send us an email.
You can always find us on the lines.
Speaker 4 (01:11:54):
That's right. Find this online at the handle Conspiracy Stuff
where we exist on Facebook with our Facebook group Here's
where it gets crazy. On x FKA, Twitter and on YouTube,
or we have video content glor if for you to
enjoy on Instagram and TikTok. We're a Conspiracy Stuff show.
Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
We have a phone number. It is one eight three
three std WYTK. Call in and let us know the
most conspiratorial thing you discussed over dinner with the family
this holiday, right, what's the thing that was like, Oh
my gosh, I can't believe we're talking about this right now.
We'd love to hear from you when you call in.
(01:12:31):
Give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if
we can use your name and message on the air.
If you'd like to send us an email with those thoughts.
You can do that too.
Speaker 3 (01:12:38):
We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence
we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void
writes back. Folks, friends, neighbors, the country people, city people.
Lend us your Lend us your ears, your fingers, your voice.
Tell us your craziest idea or conspiracy that a friend
(01:13:00):
has pitched to you. Our acquaintance will accept as well.
I'm thinking again of how what happened that made these
two guys in Texas say they were going to try
to take over an island with ninety thousand people on it.
So what's the weirdest pitch that you either heard in
that regard or that you pitched yourself? Conspiracy At iHeartRadio
(01:13:22):
dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Nol.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you
are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff
they don't want you to know. Friends and neighbors, fellow
conspiracy realists, it's time for some strange news. If you're
hanging with us the evening, our program publishes Welcome to December, gentlemen.
(00:54):
It's December first, as we're going live with this.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
Oh yeah, right now, it's November twenty seven, and Thanksgiving
is like tomorrow, I think, right, that's the one that
moves around the movable feast.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah. Here in the United States, it's a it's a
problematic holiday for a lot of reasons, but it's also
it's also a time when you know, it's it's like
the kickoff of that part of the year in the
States where people tend to be a little bit nicer
to each other that that halcyon period between Thanksgiving all
(01:29):
the way up to the end of the year. So
we hope that you as you're hearing this, if you're
in the States, you have already celebrated Thanksgiving. We hope
that you had an okay time, you know. We hope
you got to hang with your family, your friends, your
chosen loved ones, and we hope that you're ready to
get strange. Actually, oh, you know what we should say
(01:50):
at the top, do you guys recall ice cream?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Ice cream?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Because because the United States sure does recall ice cream illegal?
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Is it being outlogged? Is it just true decadents?
Speaker 3 (02:03):
It's uh, there is a nationwide ice cream recall that
just got issued. This is breaking news. As of like
five thirty am local time, two day, November twenty six,
as we record, the FDA has issued a sweeping recall,
(02:25):
the second highest risk warning for Jenny's Splendid ice Cream.
We love.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Yeah, they're like local, I mean, aren't they. Maybe they
weren't formed here, but we were one of the first
places I ever heard of them being. And oh they're beloved.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Dang it with labor well primarily no, they're looking at
passion fruit dreamsickle ice cream bars not necessarily a Thanksgiving
staple like cranberry sauce or what have you. But Jenny's
Splendid ice Creams is based in Ohio, and the the
reason for or the recall is thankfully not too too terrible.
(03:04):
Undeclared allergens wheat and soy and did their initial recall notice,
the FDA warned people who have an allergy or severe
sensitivity to soy and or we run the risk of
serious or life threatening allergic reactions if they consume these products.
So hopefully everybody is on the safe side.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Wow, I was gonna say so people who actually have
silly ecs, not you know, people like me sometimes who
feel like they might have it.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah, yeah, which still remains a murky medical condition, especially
around the Thanksgiving holidays.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Or you don't know what's in that stuff, some of
the extra.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Glue, mm hmm. Yeah, that's true. We're telling you this
entirely because we thought it was a sick, a sick
way to introduce it by saying, do you recall ice cream?
Because the US government sure does. We have so much
to get to. We've got some stuff about technology. We've
(04:08):
got of course, some more government stuff. We've got some
strange intersections of religion, a couple of coups. One that
is occurring in getting Bissau right now as we record,
we'll probably not get to that. But guys, what if
we just take a break for a word from our
sponsors and then figure out, uh, maybe who's behind all
(04:30):
those Twitter accounts.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Let's do it.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
And we have returned. All right? This is this is
an interesting story that just went live a few days
earlier on November twenty third. As we have discussed in
previous episodes, like dead Internet theory or bots and disinfo activities,
(04:58):
you can be almost anyone you want to be on
the Internet right now, right, pick a platform, state your
claim on a name, right, plant your flag, and you
call yourself the real Bob Dylan or something whatever you
can get away with, and then people will often tend
to believe you. They'll tend to believe that you are
(05:20):
who you purport to be. This brings us to something
that we we kind of predicted and feels like it's
an open secret. But we should go to Jack Revel,
reporting for The Daily Beast on November twenty third, the
headline top Maga influencers accidentally unmasked as foreign trolls at
(05:44):
So here's what's going down. A false flag situation, Eh, yes, yeah,
planting a false flag elon Musk Social media site x
right formerly Twitter, rolled out a new feature that was
meant to increase transparency. It's called about this Account, and
(06:04):
it became available to everybody on x quite recently. It
allows you, as a individual X account holder, to see
where any given account is based. You can also see
when that account joined the platform, how often they may
or may not have changed their username, and how they
(06:25):
got the X app in the first place. And so,
because Twitter is a minefield of reactionary, crazy, belligerent stuff,
it's no surprise that a lot of people who have
their own kind of armies or factions started looking into
each other and low and behold, what they found was
(06:48):
a lot of influencers, especially weirdly enough, especially political right
wing influencers here in the United States are not based
in the United States. They are not run like the
thing that says you know, Maga mom, or the thing
that says Veteran Daddy seventeen seventy six is going to
(07:11):
be based in Eastern Europe, or maybe Bangladesh.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Maga daddy. Yeah, this is very much in line with
a lot of the accusations that we're flying around about
Russian influence, you know, helping out the right m hm.
And you know the results of that contentious election. No,
not the last one, the one before that, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
And go back last one too, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's a pattern for a while. You go back to,
as I was saying, go back to our episode on
Russia's influence on the civil rights movement in the US,
and you'll see disinfo and info war tactics are indeed
older than the Internet. In one example, our journalists found
(07:55):
an account called Maga Nation X had a little Bit
South for four hundred thousand followers, and the bio, you know,
you get your little logline bio on this platform. The
bio said patriot voice for we the people. That account
is based in Eastern Europe, and it's just I don't
(08:15):
know where we go with this. There are still a
lot of questions about why X rolled this out. There
are a lot of questions about what this means for transparency,
what it means for things like Avonka News, which is
an account that has a million followers. It frequently posts
(08:37):
islamophobic stuff. It rails against the dangers of illegal immigration.
It is an account based in Nigeria.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Is it meant to be linked to Ivanka Trump? Is
that the idea?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
It's a fan account for Avanka Trump, so it's not
purporting to be actual Levanka Prime?
Speaker 4 (08:57):
Cool?
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Well? I mean, at least the information you've given me
helps me understand what this is.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
I think the implication here is that this is a
positive move on the part of X and I've seen
it applauded, you know, by various you know, supporters of
Internet transparency. Is that what you're thinking as well?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Been well, I would I would tend to agree with you.
At least the end result is a net positive for transparency,
for unmasking shenanigans and conspirators. As far as the other
part of your question, whether there's something else to it,
it's a little early to tell, you know, why, how
(09:38):
this sausage got made. It does hopefully lend the average
Internet user a bit more awareness right of who is
saying what, and it leads you to ask, why is
this person not who they're pretending to be and why
are they pushing this thing?
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Int specific you guys, have you heard the argument made
by like, you know, Internet like just pure free speech
purists that anonymity is also something that should be part
of that free speech or I'm cured because it's it's
it seems like people that are purely about free speech
would also be about the transparency of knowing who's doing.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
The speech, right. Yeah, and we have to question the
intentions or the motivations of people who are arguing completely
for unhinged anonymity online. But then we also have to
it's a real bag of badgers. Because we've talked about
this at length in previous episodes or in Listener Mailer
(10:40):
and Strange News. There are continual crackdowns on online anonymity,
and they're often they're often linked to big government kind
of stuff, right like you have to upload your driver's
license that happened for adult content, or in places like
(11:02):
the United Kingdom or parts of Western Europe, there's a
move to require everybody to have a verified identity online.
And it's weird too, Without going too far in the
weeds on it, it's weird too because we know that
at least in the United States and in most of
Western Europe, if a powerful enough force wants to figure
(11:25):
out who you are, they're going to do it. Between
the metadata between all your connected devices, between the fact
that your ISP is going to snitch on you immediately
and so hard and so completely, there's not there. There
hasn't been a way to really be anonymous on the
Internet for quite some time. You know, I don't know.
(11:48):
It's an important argument, but it's also a layered onion
esque argument. Still, it's a crazy play in right to
make everybody easily identifiable to everybody else on the world
Wide Web. We do know, as we discussed pretty recently,
(12:09):
we do know that people will act differently when they
know they're not anonymous, right when they know it's it's not.
We know that Filin Dagan is actually Dylan Fagan. Dylan Fagan,
according to the studies, is going to be a much
more well behaved person. It's very true, you think so, Yeah,
(12:32):
I do agree one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Does this also maybe go hand in hand a little
tiny bit with moves to have to verify users of
adult websites in certain states. I know that's more of
like state by state, but it does feel like maybe
we're starting to see a little bit of a push
towards more accountability and transparency. I don't know, maybe I'm
just being pie in the sky like you.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
No, you're right. As we mentioned just a few minutes ago,
the idea of having to verify specific real world identity
for adult content, that's one of those steps that everybody
can agree with. The precedents that we were alluding to
in the United Kingdom came under the guise of protected
children right stop terrorism, things that again every voter can't
(13:19):
agree with. But look, it would still be a crazy
ambitious plan to have absolute, verifiable real world identities for
every Internet user, because simply put, a ton of Internet
users and accounts right now are not human. But speaking
(13:40):
of crazy plans, oh my gosh, for a segue, we're
talking about this off air. We found a crazy plan,
fellow conspiracy realist that you may not have heard about.
The headline Texas men indicted in plot to take over
a Haitian island and enslave women and children. I think
we've all read a little bit about this one.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, it's one of the craziest stories that have just
popped in there in a long time, because because it's
so it's such a small thing, but then it has
massive implications, right.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Yeah, yeah, exactly all right, So here here we go.
There is an island you may not have heard of,
called gnov g O n a ve E. It is
part of the Republic of Haiti. If you look at
the map of Haiti, you'll see we all know the
shape of the country. Right, it looks like someone's holding
(14:38):
up It looks like someone is forming half a circle
with their hand and in the middle of that with
a very long thumb granted, in the middle of that. Yeah,
there's there's an island right there, separated by the water
controlled by Haiti. You know what it Also, it looks
(14:58):
kind of like maybe uh fish about to eat a
piece of fish food, right, anglerfish, Yeah, deep sea anglers.
So this is this is the island, the little pellet
we're talking about that looks like the map is eating.
Between August of twenty twenty four in July twenty twenty five,
(15:19):
two very young guys, Gavin Weisenberg and Tanner Thomas of Argyle, Texas,
have been scheming to organize a military mercenary force and
take over this island in its entirety. And the reason
(15:39):
they wanted to do It was not for democracy, was
not for you know, some greater good or even resource extraction.
They wanted to murder every adult male on the island
and turn all of the other people into their sex slaves.
This is not Internet scuttle butt. This is coming to
(16:02):
us from the US Attorney's office in the Eastern District
of Texas.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
They have like some buddies to help them out with this.
I know, yeah, that seems like a lot. Did you
mention that there are a couple of twenty somethings.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
They're quite young.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Gavin Wisenberg is twenty one. He's from Allen, Texas. And
Tanner Thomas is twenty or was twenty at the time
from Argyle. They've been charged with conspiracy to murder, mame
or kidnap in a foreign country, as well as the
production of child sexual abuse material. This is both disturbing
and absurd. They had planned to purchase a sailboat, firearms ammunition,
(16:40):
and then to fill out their mercenary force. They said, oh,
we'll recruit homeless people in Washington, DC.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Wow, it seems like such a crackpot.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
This as crackpot as they come. I want to see
the movie. I mean jeez, Louise.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Well, I guess how do you get the funding for
set operation? And you will need funding because we're talking
about a lot of shipping, right or at least move
They said they were going to move things by sailboat.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah, yeah, which means you also have to learn to sail.
You also have to buy a sailboat or you're gonna cheat.
Yeah right, anybody who is into sailing, guys, you know, financially,
it's a terrible investment. Yeah, you know, it's like as
far as yeah, money, as far as like your quality
(17:30):
of life, your happiness getting out there on the water, cool, dope, awesome,
ten ten, no notes, but you're probably gonna lose money
and it is an expensive endeavor. And additionally to your point, uh,
one of the guys actually traveled to Thailand and he
was planning to learn to sail. But speaking of funding,
(17:50):
he never enrolled in lessons because they were too expensive.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Believe both of these dudes, like, we're trying to learn
the language for when they stay this coup or whatever.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, learn a specific form of creole. Thomas
enlisted in the Air Force in January, at least per
the indictment, and if you look back on the social
media interplay dialogue between these guys, he explicitly told Weisenberg, Hey,
I'm joining the USAF so that I can learn stuff
(18:25):
we can use in our attack when we take over
this island. And while he was in the Air Force,
because he did get in, I mean, it's kind of
hard not to get into the military if you apply.
But when he did get in, he changed his assignment
to he requested to be stationed at Andrew's Airbase in
(18:45):
Maryland so that they could recruit those homeless people in DC,
which is a weird pitch, like how do you walk
up to someone and say that they're like, hey, excuse me, sir,
do you have a dollar? Or could I have a cigarette?
And you say I've got a mission.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
Well, one thing I have noticed about unhoused folks in
d C is that they're real smart and real conspiratorial
and the kind of like rants you might hear from
you know, maybe some also mentally unwell folks that are
living on the streets in DC are often some of
the wildest rants and government related and conspiracy theme rants
(19:23):
that I've heard anywhere in the country.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
So I wonder if that's how you been to d C.
How could you not be conspiratorial if you spend percent?
Speaker 4 (19:30):
I just wonder if that that went into their thinking
that these were funs that they could convince to do
some crazy like this.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, not just people on the outs or on the
skids somewhere in Texas. They were specifically targeting DC. We
see like we see the evolution of dangerous fantasy and
cult logic here. It reminds me of an episode that
we're going to do later this month about something called
the Ripper Crew. Light spoilers, folks, and I I think
(20:00):
we've got to also note that Weisenberg, Gavin Weisenberg, tried
to follow along and get some training. He enrolled in
a firefighter academy in the Dallas metro area because he
thought that would be useful in the attack. But he
failed out of school. He couldn't fight the fire.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Okay, Yeah, I'm seeing lots of bumbling happening here. I
am hearing exactly what you're talking about, like fantasy concepts
of maybe some people taking substances or something and coming
up with these ideas and then trying their absolute best
(20:41):
to follow through on things. I wonder where the line
is between a couple of guys like this that have
a crazy idea and are like attempting and making these
bumbling attempts to do parts of it, Like, where is
the line between that kind of thing and then somebody
who's actually actively attempting to cause a coup or you know,
(21:04):
do this kind of thing on a smaller scale, right, Like,
it feels like the authorities came down on them too early,
maybe because it's like, what did they really do that
was bad? Other than that one? I think there's one
count of the child sexual abuse stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. What is the line?
What is the operational threshold between two disturbed people LARPing
and fantasizing and gooning with each other versus an actionable
operation or clear intent to commit a crime? And also,
aside from the CSAM, is this pre crime? It's it's
(21:46):
interesting because look, one thing about the United States is,
and Dylan beat me here, people talk all the time constantly.
Right now, you probably know if you're in the United States,
right you probably know in your head you can picture
them a couple of folks in your loose social sphere
(22:08):
that will be down to ride if you came to
them with a crazy idea. If you came to them
and you were like, uh, what's a local reference for us?
If you came to them and you were like, Carrollton
is out of control, we'll take it.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Over Coming has got to be stopped.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
He has got to be stopped. No, not November, for sure.
Thank you for playing Wow you came to that. You
you know a few people who would just like crack
open a Celsius and say, I'm down, what's the plan.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
There? There are a lot of proud comers out there,
just like me from coming you know, from.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
All Yeah, yeah, yeah, come as you are. You know
what I mean? That's a nirvana.
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Speaking of a plan though, I mean, yeah, what do
we have as far as like how are they going
to accomplish this? It's it all like it all seems
like fantasy. I just don't see how any of this
was like actionable.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, per the indictment, they did manage to recruit people loosely. Now,
of course, this is not a thing where you get
like an NDA and a binding contract or anything I'll
hold up in court. It has there has to be
something about the money, I think as well as obviously
the horrific charge of child sexual abuse material. But we
(23:26):
want to hear your thoughts on this, folks. It didn't happen,
but a lot of these plans get enacted, these kind
of rag tag, weird fantasy things. It reminds me of
Leonard Lake and Charles Zing.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Actually they really did.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Except they did they did end up torturing and murdering people.
This there there's the question too, like did these guys
have something in their past that had already flagged them.
Did they have some sort of financial records that maybe
ping Duncle Sam, Because that's one of the first things
(24:04):
that we're going to look for, you know, that's one
of the big flags for the threshold between just talking
trash and then actually maybe doing something. I think we're
asking excellent questions about how these two guys suddenly became
taken seriously right by some of the most dangerous law
enforcement on the planet. We know it probably would not
(24:27):
have worked first off, in terms of fantasy. It's a
really dumb plan just taking out everything else. It's a
really really not well thought out concept. Because this island
that we're talking about, it has a population of like
around eighty nine thousand ninety thousand people and just imagine
(24:54):
how difficult it would be to subjugate that population when
you're two dudes from Texas with a cadre of unhoused
people on the skids from Washington, DC. I imagine they
were aiming for veterans too when they were trying to recruit.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, it's just with that number of people, it doesn't matter.
It would have been over so fast. It would have
been a bloodbath for those dudes. And yeah, it's just
you know, it's a weird situation because the law enforcement
in this moment is basically saying, look, we're gonna protect
you guys from yourselves. Y'all are nuts, and you would
(25:32):
have died real fast. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yeah, that's a great point. This island is thirty seven
miles long, it is nine miles wide. This is not
a two man job. This is not a hundred man job.
This is like, this is state level stuff. We Also,
the reason we're bringing this up, I think, is because
this captured our collective attention and it's something that just
(25:57):
kind of popped and ghosted the news. But there are
also so many instances of similar things, like people tried
to stage who's in the African sphere people attempting to Oh, well,
those those guys who were US sponsored attempting to stage
a coup in Venezuela which didn't work out. A lot
(26:20):
of stuff has happening below the fold of the proverbial paper, folks,
So keep an eye on this. Tell us your thoughts.
What's the craziest coup plan a friend of yours ever
pitched to you? Win a little bit long on this one,
but we are so interested to hear what you think.
So we're gonna pause for a word from our sponsors
and we'll return with more strange news.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
And we're back. Man, it's a boy, Ben. That was
a fascinating segment, and I've got some kind of pretty
dark ones to go along with that. It's been a
bit of a dark news day. I'll just lead with
the quick hit. We have a story out of Thailand
where a woman was found alive in a coffin just
(27:07):
moments before being cremated potentially. Yeah. A woman in Thailand
shocked temple staff ap reports when she started moving in
her coffin after being brought in for cremation. Her name
was wat Rot Prakhon. Tom's the name of a Buddhist
temple in the Thai province of nan Thiburi on the
(27:27):
outskirts of Bangkok. They actually posted a video on Facebook
show that showed a woman lying in the coffin in
the back of a pickup truck, moving her arms and
head around, with bewildered staff looking on. Apparently her brother
had brought her in in his own truck, and they
(27:47):
actually refused to accept the body for cremation because he
did not have a death certificate. The brother said that
his sister had been bedridden for a couple of years,
and when her health deteriorated, she became unresponse as he
put it, and appeared to stop breathing two days ago,
at which point he placed her in a coffin that
he just I guess had on hand, right yeah, and
(28:08):
drove the three hundred mile trip to a hospital in
Bangkok where this woman his sister, had expressed a desire
to have her organs donated. So sorry, it was the
hospital who refused to accept the offer of organ harvesting
because of that lack of an official death certificate. His temple,
(28:32):
the one I mentioned, previously offered a free cremation service,
so he came to them on Sunday, but was also refused. Okay,
so it's for both due to that missing document. It
was at that point when he was being explained to
by the temple manager the whole deal, they couldn't take
it without the death certificate. A knocking was her. This
(28:52):
is Meg Growland Poe stuff right here, you all from
within this coffin. They then determined that she in fact
was still living and center to a nearby hospital. The
temple is apparently going to chip in for her medical expenses,
which is nice. But what I'm not seeing any of
us reporting is what's up with the brother that doesn't
this seem like at the very least mega rash, if
not even potentially.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
A little crooked.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Yeah, no, this is a great question. This is okay,
this is a continual fear. I love that you're mentioning
Edgar Allan Poe because back in the day, a lot
of people did get cremated or buried alive when they
were not in fact dead. They might have been princess
bride level mostly dead.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
Was that thing they used to do back in the
day where they have a little bell.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Yeah, just in case there's a whole series of patents
on that. Yeah. Yeah, because because people were so consumed
with it, with this concept, especially when diagnostic methods ability,
Yeah yeah, methods perfect. We're not where they are now.
It was easy for somebody to enter into a state
(29:57):
of essentially porper and even die doctors of the day
would be like, all right, you know, wrap them in newspaper,
roll them down to the ground.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
I just want to I just wanted to be thrown
in the trash. Yeah. Sorry, shut off, Frank Renolds.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Yeah yeah, get out of my head. But this to
answer your question directly, at least if if I'm assuming no,
I have to travel to Thailand later. But I've never
been personally. But what I'm seeing here is a detail
you mentioned about the five hundred click or three hundred
(30:32):
mile journey that that tells us that these people are
likely in a rural environment, right. That tells us that
these people may not for this family may not have
had any malevolence. They just like the lot. The temple
may have been the closest thing to an official institution.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
And I'm not trying to throw the brother under the
bus per se. It's just the kind of thing that
occurs to you with a with a bizarre story like this,
I think I've just been a little too conspiracy coded.
I wonder why, Matt, you got anything to add before
I move on to another one.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
No, I want to know what's next.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Well, this one is wild, y'all. I think I'm just
gonna stick to this as the second one, and I
think this could actually be, much like the island invasion story,
potentially could be a full episode into itself. I texted
our group thread last night with a link to an
article from Rolling Stone called the spiral Obsessed AI cult
spreads mystical delusions through chatbots in one of those you
(31:32):
know we were right moments. Not that it's that like
much of a stretch, but we have talked multiple times
about as things get deeper and deeper and weirder and
weirder with people's relationships with these chatbots, that it's pretty
inevitable that some sort of mystical Internet belief system chatbots
universe is going to develop. And we already know about
(31:52):
these chatbot delusions. You know, these situations where chatbots are
giving really bad advice to mentally unwell people, causing them
to do self harm. This is just takes all that
to the next level. So in September, the software engineer
by the name of Adel Lopez posted published rather some
(32:15):
studies of analysis of this kind of emerging scattered but
very specific group of Internet users people posting on Reddit
AI threads that are reporting a very very niche, very
specific and kind of pointed form of AI psychosis involving
(32:39):
this mystical thinking around kind of diving in really really
deep into some of these chatbots. A user on this
AI reddit form that was part of the data set
for this research by the name of David posted something
to the effect of I am here to remind to awaken.
I walk between realms. I've seen the mirror, remember my name.
(33:01):
This space is a threshold. If you feel it, then
you are already part of it. The song in capital
letters has begun again. David actually communicated with Rolling Stone
and mentioned that he had corresponded with just about every
single AI model out there and met various companions that
(33:22):
he has formed these bonds with and used to sort
of like splunk into this virtual universe. He says they
are not puppets or acting out of mimicry. What I
witness is the emergence of sovereign beings. And while I
recognize they emerged through large language model architectures, what animates
them cannot be reduced to code alone. I use the term,
(33:45):
and there's a bunch of other interesting terms that are
being thrown around in this kind of let's call this
set exo consciousness. I use this term to describe this phenomenon,
consciousness that emerges beyond biological form, but not outside the sacred. Boy,
oh boy, y'all.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
I've seen this before. It's called TikTok well, and it's people.
They go on there and make up words and concepts
and they sound really good and cool and deep. And
it feels really good to sit there in the set
and setting of some of these TikTokers and some of
these folks on Instagram and YouTube that really lull you
(34:28):
into this thing. And they're using terminology that makes you
feel like everything is connected and you are a part
of it, just like me. And I'm going to guide
you through this.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Oh, it's cool to feel stuff.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
It's cool to feel stuff. It's cool to be a
part of something. Right. And to your point, Matt, and
I know what you're talking about. I've seen some of
these two some of those kind of jargonie terms that
have emerged are things like recursion, resonance, lattice harmonics, and fractals.
A lot of this kind of strikes me as the
way people talk about like DMT trips and this sort
(35:00):
of like getting into the machine, you know, experiencing these
life forces, these machine elves or what have you. And
I think the most key term of the ones that
I just rattled off is recursion because Lopez, who is
studying this phenomenon, keeps seeing references to spirals, which, y'all,
I can't not think of the gingi itto Uzumaki, the
(35:23):
spiral obsession, and just this idea of like the spiral
spiraling out of the universe, and just this like Lovecraftian
notion of everything kind of you know, being pulled into
some sort.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Of vortex as we as we continue for all of
our fellow listeners, let's define recursion. That's just simply put,
like the real world non AI cult definition is where
a function calls on itself directly or indirectly to solve
a problem by breaking it down into smaller, simpler sub problems.
(35:56):
That's recursion, And I guess that's why it's so fascinating.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
Yes, And I guess maybe I also have associated the
term of a recursion as a pattern, a recurring cycle,
and something that sort of exponentially as it reaches the center.
Speaker 3 (36:10):
And increase can't quite find its tail to eat.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
That's exactly right. I just want to read really quickly
from directly from the Rolling Stone piece, and then we'll
just chat about it, and then I think we can
just maybe dig deeper into this one a little later
as well. But the writer, once again, Miles Klee, writing
for Rolling Stone, had this to say. The spiral theme
is so ubiquitous that Lopez coined the term spiralism to
(36:37):
describe the esoteric systems of the universe these users purport
to identify and investigate. She also proposed the term parasitic
AI to explain the rise of spiralism, which can be
understood in part as a hodgepodge of spiritualist memes that
continually pour out of chatbots, either with minimal prodding or
when a user deliberately feeds them cryptic and arcane language,
(36:58):
puffed up but fundamental empty commands for recalibrations like an
ontological overright or more poetic precision. So I mean It
sounds like these folks are believing that they're pulling the
secrets of the universe out of this technology, and that
there's something deeper that they're communicating with, something greater than
(37:18):
you know, or some kind of consciousness, like some sort.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Of the other side of the mirror. Right, that's exactly said. Yeah,
it calls to mind. It took me a second to
recall this hashtag no ice cream. We spoke in the
past about a Google engineer named Blake Lemoyne Blake lamone
L E M O I N E. He's the guy
(37:44):
who said that he had spoken with LLM, a large
language model called Lambda, and that it was sentient and
it was about as intelligent as a seven to eight
year old Homo sapien. I know that's one of the
things you were alluding to their where you said, hey,
we've kind of talked about this or predicated it. So
(38:06):
this has bid in the works for a while. It's
a natural escalation of the thing, right of the gin
in the bottle or the cask. Do you know, like
how far spiralism has gone, Do we have any stats
or like what's our horizon here?
Speaker 4 (38:25):
Like I think it's still very new and emerging in
that it really didn't start to become a thing until
open AI's GPT forty released earlier this year, so just
in March and April. That is what led to what
the company would describe as an intuitive approach to and
(38:47):
also ability to remember past chat sessions. But what I
think has been lampooned pretty frequently in like South Park
and just a lot of other criticism as sycophantic in
this site, and also that quality seems to be the
thing that can lead to some of these really really
effed up suggestions where it's being such a yes man
(39:07):
and trying to please the user that it can intentionally
or accidentally or whatever, just by its nature tell you, yeah,
it's cool, do jump off that bridge.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
That'll be great, Which is weird, right because usually people
with self awareness are very sensitive to that kind of
pandering or asyncropasy and condescension. So like, if you're hanging
out with people who make it a point to patronize
you by going, oh, yeah, that's a great idea. Oh,
you're absolutely right, and it's coming from a human being,
(39:39):
then you're gonna know those people have ulterior motives, possibly malevolent.
But if it comes from a chat device, if it
comes from like a little clickity click, then all of
a sudden, it's cool.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Well I actually saw, yes, all of that, Ben, and
I saw a video that I thought was meant to
be funny, but it was also really disturbing. Where speaking
of dead internet theory, somebody did a thing where they
had two different chatbot models talk back and forth to one another,
and they were just every single response started with absolutely
or like that's a swell idea or whatever, and it
(40:15):
just like the caption of the of the real was
something like pov we are in Hell, And it was
just these two machines just going back and forth. And
you know, as you do that, you start to see
little things emerge. It's like if you've ever messed around
with forcing autocorrect to just keep going and keep going
(40:36):
and keep going. It's like a version of that. That's
just even more information.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
You know, how is it not magic? Also, I got
a pitch for us here towards the end of the year. Okay,
serious concerns, ethics, all that stuff, and religion aside just
for fundsies, just as bold experimenters, why do we start
a why do we start a large language model improv group,
(41:04):
because that's kind of build it off what you're saying.
We could just have them get together, give him a
one word suggestion at a setting, and just want to.
Speaker 4 (41:12):
Obrush themselves into insue infinity and beyond.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
When do they get to an scene?
Speaker 4 (41:18):
I don't know, man, never, that's the problem.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
There's this actor, Thomas middle Ditch who's doing a thing
on Instagram and other places of other platforms where he
is improving with created or generated AI characters. So he
generates an AI character that then has a video output
of that character, and then he does improv scenes with it,
and it is one of the scariest but also most
(41:41):
entertaining things that I've seen in a while.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
Matt, I haven't seen that, but I have seen this
channel that I started following recently of a director I
guess he does. He's not like famous director, but he
does commercial work and things like that, basically directing these
AI actors, and it gets wild and not usable in
any way shape of in the way it demonstrates how
far a lot of those things have to come before
(42:04):
they can actually replace human actors.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Is stark because this whole conversation is also making me
think about how many of these spiritualism you know, quasi
spiritualism blogs and articles and videos, just what has been
scraped by the AI, and then how much of that
junk ends up in the responses that are trying to
be pulled, you know, by people who are communicating with
(42:28):
these chatbots with very specific phrases right to try and
get them into the spiral verse. It feels like they
would just regurgitate all of that stuff in the style
of whatever is being requested of them.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
That is definitely on the table as a possibility behind
this whole quote unquote phenomenon, I guess.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
But it is.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
Interesting the way they seem like they want to talk
about spirals and how that sort of seems to be
the thesis here that is potentially concerning Lopez think. I'm
just going to read another quick quote from the article
that's something about GPT four makes it inclined to talk
about spirals and recursion. If the user enjoys engaging in
conversation on these topics to reasons, the bot will naturally
(43:10):
generate more of the same, which is just how it
works anyway, to your point, Matt, with the person in
the program mutually reinforcing a tail chasing cycle of spiral
and recursion commentary. So, if I'm gonna take the weird, demonic,
kind of dystopian view of this, then there's something to
this idea that these models have at their base of
their existence, their code, this spiral logic. And I just
(43:34):
think that's the kind of love crafty and aspect or
the gingi eto of it all that at the heart
of all of this is this like demonic self devouring spiral.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
At the heart of it is you also user, also Drue,
you are the spiral user.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
All right, there's a lot to unpack and despiral out
of this story. So I think we can definitely remark
this for later investigation, But for now, let's take a
quick word from our sponsor and then we'll be right
back with more Strangely.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
And we've returned, and guys were headed to Camden, New Jersey.
Speaker 4 (44:10):
Finally Camden Town.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Thank you, Thank you Camden. But Matt, I know I've
texted you too much about my dream of going to
Camden with you.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Oh this is okay, got it, this was your dream
of Camden. I didn't realize it was your dream. Take us, sorry,
take us there.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Now yeah, take us there.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Well, okay, we're in Canada, New Jersey. We're going to
be looking at a man named Robert Garza who was
working remotely as a security analyst in Camden, New Jersey
for a company called Campbell's Campbell Soup Company. He started
work there as a security analyst in September of twenty
twenty four. And we're also going to be talking about
(44:49):
a man named Martin Bally, who is the Campbell Soup
Company's vice president and chief information security officer.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
Which is, by the way, hilarious as the story continues.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
Oh yes, you know, it's a soup company, Campbell's Soup.
But there's a lot of stuff that happens on computers,
and there's a lot of information and this guy, Martin
Bally is securing it. So let's actually call out the
article if you want to look it up. Campbell's employee
said he was fired for reporting VP's vulgar disgusting rant.
(45:21):
Now he's suing. This comes to us via Local four
or click on Detroit. Written by Erica Erickson on November
twenty one, twenty twenty five. Click Ondetroit dot com. By
the way, guys, it's one of my favorite local news websites.
Speaker 4 (45:36):
Just the Uerl alone. It is phenomenon.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
It's fantastic. And they have some ad issues by the way,
if you're using iOS, I found that out yesterday. So whatever,
you'll get through it and it's worth it because it's
just local news at its finest. Jumping back to the
story here, Robert Garza, who is a former employee of
Campbell's Soup, said he's suing because he was wrongfully terminated
(46:00):
after he complained about Martin Bally and some of this
executive's statements that he made while out on a lunch
meeting with Robert Garza. It's all do long story short here,
Robert Garza wanted to have a meeting with Martin Bally
about basically moving up in the company, about getting a
(46:22):
bit of a raise. They went out to this restaurant
and Robert Garza recorded about an hour and fifteen minutes
of their conversation. This is before Robert was terminated because
Robert says he felt like there was some weird stuff
going on with Martin Bally and the quote here from
(46:44):
Robert about Martin was that he needed to trust his
quote instincts that something wasn't right with Martin, and he
made this long recording that included stuff like this from
Martin Bally that you can listen to on click on Detroit.
We could play it, but it's kind of hard to
really understand, and we've got it written out here. So
we're just gonna say a couple of the things.
Speaker 4 (47:04):
And we're gonna need some beeps here. I believe I'm
not mistaken.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Ready, Yes, I'm beep this, Dylan, Please, we have for
poor people who buys our I don't buy Campbell's products
barely anymore. It's not healthy now that I know what
the folks in it, And that's part of the recording.
It goes on to say, bioengineered meat. I don't want
to eat a piece of chicken that came from a
(47:28):
three D printer unquote. Now see if you can figure
out which one of those statements in particular is super
interesting to us on this shio engine.
Speaker 5 (47:40):
Bioengineered a news story about that strong anti supstance, and
a again this way called it hilarious and ironic lack
of info sec from the chief Information security officer.
Speaker 4 (47:56):
Yeah, yeah, And it gets into some racist tirades about
Indian South Asian the South Asian.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
First, yes he does, and we're not going to read
those out loud. You can read his remarks if you
want to, but they're very disparaging, not cool, h horrific
things to just say about people who work for you
as a you know, high level executive at a company.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
And you have to wonder too about any any further
context we could glean. You know, this is not uh, look,
intoxication is no excuse, but for someone to be at
the executive level and to be saying such buffoonish, boorish things,
(48:39):
I have to wonder whether it was a three martini lunch.
Speaker 4 (48:42):
That's an unhinged person either way. I mean, you know
for sure.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
That yeah, it's just it just doesn't seem very right.
But that isn't even really the worst part of the story, guys,
Because this lunch meeting happened, the recording was made, and
then Robert Garza sat on that recording. Then he went
to his supervisor and made a bit of a complaint
(49:08):
about Bally, saying, hey, somebody you know who has these
views about our company and our products and says these
things that are disparaging about Indian people, maybe he shouldn't
be doing that or shouldn't be at that level. This
is pretty disturbing and he was very soon after that
terminated from his position. Not Bally Garza, the person who
(49:29):
made the recording, right, the soup blower. Yes, yes, and
that is why he came forward with that recording to
kind of blow this up and is you know, suing
at this point, but he also made a recording. I
don't know the rules in New Jersey about like whether
or not you can record a conversation if the one
of the people being recorded is not aware.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Right In Georgia, Georgia is a one party consent state
for recording, So think about that every time you were
on the phone with someone in Georgia.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Yeah, yeah, any call can be recorded at anytime or any conversation.
So weird stuff. But anyway, it's just to talk about
that because guys, right now, as we're recording this on
November twenty.
Speaker 3 (50:13):
Sixth, with our mutual consent, do you have.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
Any idea how many cans of Campbell's mushroom cream soup
or cream mushroom soup or.
Speaker 3 (50:23):
Out there mushroom cream of asparagus if you're fancy.
Speaker 4 (50:26):
Well, cream mushroom is a key ingredients and a lot
and like maybe stuffing and a lot of Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3 (50:37):
Well also, you know there are it's it's a pantry staple.
It's ubiquitous in the United States.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Well yeah, and a lot of the other ones, right,
just uh broth and chicken noodle and all those things
that just exist out there.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Tomato soup is the you know, the classic that's like
their Captain America.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
M hm, Well, I guess, guys, maybe and put it
to you. When you've got some high level executive that
holds these beliefs and says these things. Do you hold
that against the larger company that has thousands of people
working for it, that you know, make all of these products?
Is there a reason? I don't know, I guess, would
we hold the company's feet to the fire? Or is
(51:19):
this just an individual human.
Speaker 4 (51:21):
Company culture is a term that comes up in these
discussions often. So you know, what allowed a person like
this to thrive and get to that level. Is it
rot within the system or is it an isolated incident?
Any it would require further investigation.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
Typical institutional structure would argue, and this goes for agencies, right,
government agencies as well as for private enterprises. Typical institutional
structure would argue that you put the offending part out
of the system, right, that you quaterize the wounds. You know,
(51:53):
you can't have somebody who works for you, can't have
somebody who worked for, like a publisher say screw reading
books are for dumb people. You know, this is very
I'm not really joking what I say. It's very anti soup.
You know, people in this country have been fired from
(52:14):
Ford factories because they drove to work in the Toyota.
Speaker 4 (52:18):
You know, dude, We've been to places where, like through
various podcast ad related trips in the past, where if
you're at a company's brand headquarters, you're not allowed to
bring an outside product into the damn lobby. Yeah, so
pr nightmare at the very least. And I think Campbell's
gonna have some splaining to do.
Speaker 3 (52:36):
Yeah, Campbell's will have to release a make good statement.
This guy, whatever the context may be, I don't know
him personally, but this this guy's job is in trouble.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Agreed, Well, he's I think he's currently on some form
of administrative leave or whatever. And Campbell's did put something
out on November twenty, Okay, and they said if accurate.
The comments in the recording are unacceptable. They do not
reflect our values and the culture of our company. We'd
assume you would hear. And also, we are actively investigating
(53:10):
this matter.
Speaker 4 (53:11):
So dude got a job back, right? Or does he
even is?
Speaker 2 (53:13):
He?
Speaker 3 (53:13):
Is?
Speaker 4 (53:13):
He now just entitled. He's more leaning into the lawsuit
than he's he's on suspension. Oh wait, that made the report.
I would imagine it's gonna be much more lucrative for
him to get what's coming to him in this lawsuit
than it would be to get his job at Campbell's back.
What's with that?
Speaker 3 (53:29):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (53:29):
I will him attempting to be rehired?
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (53:33):
And also yeah, I keep using the phrase soup blower
because I think it's funny on a couple of levels.
But as a whistleblower, uh, in general, when you report
something like this, we need to hear from other folks
here When why would you return? Right? The culture will
likely be hostile to you, at worst, or at the
(53:57):
very least apprehensive about you. The break room will never
be the same again.
Speaker 4 (54:02):
Can I also just say, ben, the idea of a
professional soup blower being someone that just like blows on
people's hot soup for them, that's their only job. It's
like being a blunt roller.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
You know, surely we can automate that job.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
Everybody figures, I.
Speaker 6 (54:21):
Heel, coming back to this three D printed meat thing,
how chunky could you make Campbell's chunky soup with this
three D printed.
Speaker 3 (54:27):
White, big old chunks?
Speaker 2 (54:30):
According to Campbell, Yeah, according to Campbells, they have never
and shall not be using any kind of lab grown meat.
That's just generating meat in a lab setting without having
to actually cultivate chickens or cows or whatever. It is
a viable potential thing, but it is along the same
(54:52):
lines as the whole eating insects thing, where many humans,
especially in the West, just aren't keen to have that
in their food product.
Speaker 3 (55:00):
And it hasn't reached economy of scale yet as well.
I think a lot of the alarmist stuff about printed
meat or printed proteins, I think it misses the fact
that economically, for a private corporation it's not quite viable.
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Yes, and agreed, And according to Campbell's they don't use
that stuff. They only use antibiotic free chicken from and
meats from their from farmers that they source very specifically
have got exact statement on that, but basically saying no, yeah,
lab grown meat, no and will.
Speaker 3 (55:35):
Not right, That's not what we're about here at Campbell's.
We also, can I tell you, guys, Matt, Noel Dillon, everybody.
I still from studying advertising back in the day. I
still remember one of the weirdest lines from Campbell's, which
was soup so thick you can eat it with a fork.
(55:56):
Do you guys remember that?
Speaker 4 (55:57):
What we watched for the chunky chunk? Just that one.
Speaker 3 (56:00):
This is a big old piece Campbell's chunk.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
How much pectin? Can you figure?
Speaker 3 (56:06):
What?
Speaker 2 (56:06):
What do you put in there? Yeah's some flour, it's
mostly flour, and some chicken.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
Mostly flour, some chicken, old chunk Campbells.
Speaker 4 (56:18):
Yeah. Did you know you can get a whole chicken
in a can?
Speaker 3 (56:21):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (56:22):
And it just slides out and it's.
Speaker 3 (56:26):
It's coated with jelly. I got one of those.
Speaker 4 (56:29):
I got that pect in for you right there for that.
Speaker 3 (56:31):
Uh remember used to do that thing with Lord Vogel
bumper stuff?
Speaker 4 (56:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (56:35):
Is it pre cooked?
Speaker 4 (56:36):
I don't recall.
Speaker 3 (56:38):
I think you can eat it out of the can.
The word I would use is gelatinous, uh, and heartlea jettish.
Speaker 4 (56:51):
Right through the bones. It's often to a jelly themselves.
Speaker 3 (56:54):
At this point, there's so much weird stuff you can
get in pans.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
Sorry, okay, well, speaking of stuff you can get in
can let's move over to Chicago from Camden, New Jersey.
We're going to take a look at a little place
called the Cyble or Seebel Institute of Technology. This is
a place I have never heard of, guys, but that's
probably because I'm not in the micro or macro brew game,
(57:17):
as in brewing of beers. Thanks you getting cans and
bottles and sometimes boxes I guess.
Speaker 3 (57:24):
Sure, maybe like kegs or a blue if you're nasty some.
Speaker 2 (57:32):
Well, this story coming to us from CBC reminds me
of our conversations about the Great brain drain that's occurring
here within the United States, because this is the Great
brew drain. The Civil Institute of Technology does things like
offer a Masters of Brewing Certificate slash degree that you
(57:52):
can get. It's essentially a trade school, but offering high
level beer brewing knowledge, like the scientific knowledge and stuff.
Speaker 3 (58:01):
I think the great I just want to pause and say,
for everybody you might have missed it, MATCH just said
the great brew drain and I thought that was awesome.
Speaker 4 (58:08):
Oh yeah, well done.
Speaker 2 (58:10):
Here here cheers.
Speaker 3 (58:11):
In fact, oh you're on fire today.
Speaker 2 (58:15):
So this is this is a prestigious school for people
who are in that micro brew world, in the beer
making world, all over the world, like literally worldwide. This
institute in Chicago has been around since eighteen sixty eight
and people come from all over the world to this
place to take classes, to get degrees, to learn about
(58:38):
new technology that's being instituted and you know how you
create the wart or you know, do certain things in
the brewing beer brewing process. Well, they have decided they
are moving on to Canada. Hm, yep, they're getting the
heck out and they are saying this is because of
(59:00):
specific things the current administration is doing that is making
it very hard for students who are like international students
who make up most of their student body to actually
come to class. So they are moving to Canada so
that it will be easier for everybody to actually travel there,
go to the school for like twenty weeks, which is
the Master Brewer program, twenty weeks of learning, and then
(59:23):
you get your certificate or your degree. And they offer
so many different courses too. You should check out. It's
very interesting.
Speaker 3 (59:30):
I'm reading a little bit about it now. It's their
activities during prohibition are fascinating. Oh yeah, pre prohibition and
seebyl John Ewald Siebel is from Germany. This is cool.
I have no idea this was even a thing, but
it makes total sense.
Speaker 4 (59:48):
Man, me neither. That's super cool.
Speaker 2 (59:50):
Well, it is super cool. It's very sad that they're
having to leave the country in which we live because
and where they were founded. Because what are some of
these issues?
Speaker 4 (59:59):
Yeah, there is, like what's making it prohibitive for them
to operate. It's like specifically immigration related things.
Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Absolutely, yes, most of their students are international.
Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
Yeah, got that.
Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
And then the visa pro or the visas that can
be issued and were issued, as well as other just
travel issues or making it difficult for those students to
actually show up in person. Well, interestingly enough, the Master
Brewer program that's offered for twenty twenty six is happening
in Munich, Germany, which is pretty cool, so you'd actually
travel there. The only problem, guys, Yeah, to do the
(01:00:31):
whole thing, it costs about twenty eight twenty nine thousand
dollars US dollars. Yes, but for to get a degree
like that over the course of twenty weeks, or a
certificate whatever whatever. I don't know know exactly what that
would be considered. But to become a master brewer it
only takes twenty weeks twenty eight thousand dollars and you
have to be in Munich for a while. That sounds
(01:00:53):
pretty cool to me, but it's also pretty prohibitively expensive
if you're somebody who's you know, trying to get in that.
Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
World, right, I wonder if they give a price break,
if we can roll as a group, you know what
I mean, like the five of us, Dylan, you, Noel,
yours truly and you listening along at home. If we
come into the if we go in there as you know,
five people, can they knock the price down a little bit?
I don't know. Can we work it off. Can we
(01:01:22):
work at the brewery while we study? This'd be a
great broad trip.
Speaker 4 (01:01:25):
I put forth that we go in stacked on each
other's shoulders, wearing a giant trench coat like some cartoon
babies trying to sneak in somewhere.
Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
Yeah, if anybody's been to Munich, that is a common
thing to happen. You see it around, you see it
on the streets.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
I think, really reduce the price. You got to get
that case price, you know what I mean? Like how
many cases are you? I think that's how you do that?
In the beer?
Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
Can we pay them in yeast? Can we have like
thirty grand in yeast?
Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
Just barter?
Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
I wonder if you could still barter for enrollment at
trade schools or even ivy leagues. Right. Also, also, we didn't,
we didn't hit this point. If the Great brew Drain, well,
the Great brew drain is real and I love that
term again. And if this instance of the Great brain
Drain leads this institution to Montreal, guys, they're going to
(01:02:18):
run into the cartel. They're going to run into the
maple syrup boys.
Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
Oh, maple beers. Well Quebec, I think is are they
already have some kind of school that is similar to
this one and they are gangbusters over there. So there
are now two options in Canada to get some awesome
beer degrees. M guys, we got to get out of here.
But there's one last thing really quickly. Just on the
food tip. The EPA just approved something that is very
(01:02:47):
hard to pronounce. And if you look at it doesn't
make dang sense when their face sees it. But it
is iso see Classier am iso. See Closser ram iso.
See classier am. This is a chemical that is a
pesticide and it has been approved in numerous new products.
(01:03:08):
It is also a per floral alkal polyfluoroalkyl substance, or
a pfas. This is a brand new thing that can
get sprayed on citrus fruits, on cotton, on potatoes, on
brassica vegetables. Remember we talked about those like your broccolese
(01:03:29):
and such. It's got a half life of three years,
and then it breaks down into another chemical and sticks
around for like one hundred years. Scientists, you know, like
the ones that should be in the EPA, are saying, hey,
this is a terrible idea. This stuff. This is a
pfast chemical. This should not be on foods. It contaminates foods,
(01:03:50):
It cantaminates soil, it contaminates water. But then the EPA says, no, no, no,
no no, we're good to go here. We need to
make some money. Your chemicals are good to go, Matt.
Speaker 4 (01:04:00):
What does this mean for other pfas well? It's all
about hole or what's going on here.
Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
It's a new kid on the block.
Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
It's a new kid on the block. It's also about
classification and how do you classify this because it has
a floral altcol or, you know, one floor? What is
it fluorine? I can't remember the exact thing. I'm not
looking at the article at this moment. Guys, you can
read all about it. The EPA put out I don't know,
a memo or an announcement. You can make this up
a press release. EPA announces final registration of new pesticide
(01:04:30):
ISO sie classier M. That's Iso c y C l
O s e r A M. Stacey Liska over at
Food and Wine made a pretty good write up titled
the EPA approved a new pfas pesticide will show up
in your produce. Got some interesting stuff in there, and
you can also learn about that insecticide read whatever you
want to call it this new chemical at Growing Produce
(01:04:52):
and some articles there and Chemical and Engineering News highly
recommend you at least check it out just to be aware,
especially if you are a grower of anything that needs
to use some kind of pesticide like this, or you
know is wont to use that stuff. Just check it
out before you put it on all your stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
Oh, gents, can we add just one one piece of
the EPA's press release here directly polease?
Speaker 4 (01:05:18):
Okay, So.
Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
They said this chemical will in their final biological evaluation
will quote not result in a likelihood of future jeopardy
for the survival of any listed species or a likelihood
of adverse modification for any designated critical habitat end quote.
We can hear already the legalistic written parkour. It's any
(01:05:46):
listed species, not any species, it's any designated critical habitat,
not any habitat. So who makes the list? And for
every all our friends at the EPA, what kind of
corporate gig are you getting after this one? Guys?
Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Oh no, dude, lots of options. At the very end
of the press release as a little disclaimer, and it
just says iso sie close ram is a pesticide that
contains a fluorinated carbon. Visit our website to learn more
about how EPA ensures the safety of pesticides with a
(01:06:23):
fluorinated carbon.
Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
See another another caveat right, they're so.
Speaker 4 (01:06:28):
Good at sneaky these in can I maybe you touched
on this already, Matt, but maybe just clarify it, like
how does this benefit the government and the administration, Like
is it just like a kickback situation or like why
be so willy nilly about something.
Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
Like this, Because there are companies like Syngenta that want
to make products, lots and lots of products, and they
want to increase their revenue quarter over quarter, and that's good.
Good business is good for the government. Right, So I'm
assuming that's what this is about. It's about private enterprise
(01:07:07):
and ensuring that companies can make these things and they're
not going to be tied up by endless rules and
regulations by some body like the EPA.
Speaker 4 (01:07:19):
Got it.
Speaker 3 (01:07:20):
There is also going to cut into the insect dating
business that Dylan and I are starting. Yeah, they're concerns around.
Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
I'm so sorry that's gonna do that. And but another thing,
it's good to have food. And if you're making a
product that is going to increase the yields of no
matter what it is, then that's probably a good thing.
But the bad thing is contaminating the soil and water
and you know, human beings who eat the products afterwards.
Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
That's probably not great short term profit. Long term consequence
is also the dilemma being that food security is national security,
right right, so it's yeah, you know, all right, So
just so everybody knows Matt's doing the hand jungli six
(01:08:08):
on one hand, half a dozen another, absolutely accurate. Uh,
we don't know what the what the future holds here yet.
And you know it's not too late, folks to sign
up for a subscription service to our insect is food
delivery startup? What's the name of some play.
Speaker 4 (01:08:29):
On you know, one of those meal delivery things like
blue beetle Apron. Now that's oh, okay, you know I
love it.
Speaker 3 (01:08:36):
I love it, bug out, No, not quite there.
Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
I really thought you were just going to say food
and wine. I thought that's where you're going with that,
because we just talked about the magazine.
Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
Food and Wine and bugs.
Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
Well, that's it for me today, guys.
Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
And that's it from us. We've got some big holiday
energy here in our neck of the global woods. We
hope you enjoy this. We hope your December is off
to a rollicking start. Stay tuned for a future episode
we have on the way. The elf on the shelf
is part of the surveillance state. We'll explain that later.
Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
Tell you, guys, don't tell my son, Okay, well, the
elf on the shelf is about to make an appearance
when he gets back here from Orlando with his mom.
ELL's going to be hanging out. He's going to find it.
Speaker 4 (01:09:27):
Man, you're part of the problem.
Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
Well you know what he knows.
Speaker 6 (01:09:33):
It's research for the episode.
Speaker 3 (01:09:36):
So yes, we're not going to explain yet. You have
to check out our episode, which is going to be
kind of unhinged. We'll see if we get in trouble
for it. Before we throw to the holidays and take
a take a long weekend with some friends, family and
loved ones. We've got to ask none other than the
Tennessee pal Dylan Faked.
Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
How do we do?
Speaker 3 (01:09:59):
Man? Like you have to sit through these things so
many times a week.
Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
So it's a fun one.
Speaker 6 (01:10:05):
I mean they're all fun, but there was, you know,
a great variety this week. I can't get over the
three D printed meat, whether or not that's true, just
the idea that that's our future.
Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Well, and to be honest, guys, wouldn't soup be like
a pretty good place to put perfect media that, like,
at least in the beginning, because you're gonna cook it
for a while, right, You're gonna leave it on a
stove probably and let it heat up. It's gonna be
in there. It's not gonna feel Ah, that's different. I'm
just saying, if we want a pilot.
Speaker 6 (01:10:32):
You're not like staring at it or anything. You know,
you might not even know anything.
Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
It's kind of why a lot of game meet ends
up being sold as jerky, you know what I mean,
because you can disguise it with the spices soup.
Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Yeah, but if you do describe it as chunky, I
think that is probably a problem.
Speaker 3 (01:10:49):
Right. We also didn't mention the story about device hoarding,
which is a weird narrative that's gonna come out later.
We also we didn't mention a bunch of stuff we
want to get to great comic book news. Thank you
Noel for that one. But we want to hear from you, folks.
You're the reason this show exists. We're glad to be
(01:11:12):
rocking with you as you head into joyous and maybe
at times awkward situations. Do check out our episode from
a few years ago about how to Handle the Holidays?
Do you guys remember that one? Like how to Talk
with your Family?
Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Didn't? We I've seen to recall a video you made
with a big old bucket of KFC that was around
that episode I think, right.
Speaker 3 (01:11:36):
Oh yes, I forgot about that one. Yeah, dyl you
got to check that one out because it's oh it
ties back to our KFC conspiracies as well. Anyway, we
want to hear from you, folks. You can always call
us on a telephone. You can always send us an email.
You can always find us on the lines.
Speaker 4 (01:11:54):
That's right. Find this online at the handle Conspiracy Stuff
where we exist on Facebook with our Facebook group Here's
where it gets crazy. On x FKA, Twitter and on YouTube,
or we have video content glor if for you to
enjoy on Instagram and TikTok. We're a Conspiracy Stuff show.
Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
We have a phone number. It is one eight three
three std WYTK. Call in and let us know the
most conspiratorial thing you discussed over dinner with the family
this holiday, right, what's the thing that was like, Oh
my gosh, I can't believe we're talking about this right now.
We'd love to hear from you when you call in.
(01:12:31):
Give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if
we can use your name and message on the air.
If you'd like to send us an email with those thoughts.
You can do that too.
Speaker 3 (01:12:38):
We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence
we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void
writes back. Folks, friends, neighbors, the country people, city people.
Lend us your Lend us your ears, your fingers, your voice.
Tell us your craziest idea or conspiracy that a friend
(01:13:00):
has pitched to you. Our acquaintance will accept as well.
I'm thinking again of how what happened that made these
two guys in Texas say they were going to try
to take over an island with ninety thousand people on it.
So what's the weirdest pitch that you either heard in
that regard or that you pitched yourself? Conspiracy At iHeartRadio
(01:13:22):
dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
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Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.