February 13, 2026 • 58 mins
As global tensions rise and the world order seems increasingly imperiled, the nation of Iran is suffering a massive crisis of legitimacy. A collapsing currency, economic chaos, exploding prices, a water crisis and brutal government oppression have led to an unprecedented wave of protests. The government responded by blacking out the internet, and cracking down on civilians with torture, arrests, live fire and murder. In today's episode, the guys make contact with Conspiracy Realists in the country to learn more about what's really going on in Iran -- and what may happen next.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is no.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer, Dylan the Tennessee palle Vegan. Most importantly, you
are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff
they don't want you to know? And welcome, Welcome, welcome back.
We are recording this episode on Oh guys, I had
it in the notes as Friday, February sixth, Now we're
(00:54):
nine February Monday. Anyway, we're traveling to a rod.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Figured it in our minds and definitely in our hearts.
Stuff is not going super well over there.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Understatement, Yeah, but it's great over here.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Don't you think we just had a Super Bowl?
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Super that's for sure, apparently with a very offensive halftime show.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
It's not superb Owl.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Did you guys watch the halftime show? I just saw
the clips I did. Yeah, you said it was pretty cool, right?
It was like quite quite the spectacle.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I watched both of them.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, the one that played, you know, on the television
on NBC only on NBC, just like the Olympics. Apparently
they're really wow, they're getting the programming over there, aren't they.
That one was really cool, it it, especially if you
watch them of the analysis afterwards, just the symbolic nature
of what was shown on the sets, you know, in particular.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Became very wholesome exploration of history of what it means
to be an American in Puerto Rico.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
So what and why the why all the beef? I
just don't I've never I mean, not even to politicize
any of it, but I just seems like sort of
a the guy's a big star, he's got hits, he's
Spanish language artist. Is that the lone point of contention?
The fact that his songs are not in English?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
There's linguistic tension for sure, that's it.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Well, you know, for me watching it and only being
able to speak a little bit of Spanish, you know,
and where I can understand bits and pieces, and then
based on what imagery I'm being shown, I can pick
up a few more of the words, but I don't
know the phrases. I don't understand exactly what the story is. Again,
they did a great job visually telling the story throughout
(02:36):
the show, but there is like this. I don't know
how to characterize it other than a slight unsettling feeling
wishing wishing I could understand it better than I currently do.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
If that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Does that make you angry, Matt? I'm sorry, I'm joking. Obviously,
it just seems. I don't mean to beat a dead horse.
I just fully don't quite understand why people are so
up in arms about the particular halftime show.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
It's a performative thing to be angry about. It's a
culture war thing like Oh, someone's canceling Christmas. It is
indicative of a domestic tension. I will point out that
the superb Owl is most famous economically as a thing
for advertisements, Oh you're gonna watch. It doesn't matter who
(03:26):
wins or loses, good job, Seahawks, etc. But the main
issue is look at that production value on all the stuff,
and then ask yourself if that money could have built
a library, or fed some kids, or given some elderly
(03:46):
people healthcare.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
I thought you were going to say it doesn't matter
who wins or loses, it's just how you play the game,
because that's the motto here.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
I did watch that al Paccino's speech. We know that
domestic tensions in the United States are at a boiling point.
We also know that in Iran things are going much worse.
The countries rulers and military are not just kidnapping people,
(04:16):
they're murdering protesters on mass There's a collapsing economy, there's
a water crisis. There is always a looming threat of war.
Did you not sign it that the Super Bowl halftime show?
I guess.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
And by the way, when you say superbowel, it makes
me think of the really fancy one they have at
the Bohemian Grove meetings that's always going on about. But
don't these things that you just mentioned, Ben feel and
I'm not trying to be too hyperbolic here, feel like
things that we're on the cusp of here in the
United States. Is this just like an escalation or like
a look into what the worst possible escalation of these
(04:53):
types of things could be?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
God damn, you are cool. Yes, exactly. So this is
the question, right what is going on in Iran? We're
going to pause for a word from our sponsors, will
be right back. Here are the facts. All right. If
you want a deep dive on Persian Iranian history, please
(05:18):
do check out our earlier episode from twenty eighteen, Iran
and Imperialism.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
That's the one, right, Hey, that's the one that's right
twenty eighteen. Ron is a beautiful country, you know, often
referred to as the you know, a birthplace of civilization.
That region in particular, it has had this ongoing tension
and sort of a very mixed relationship, troubling relationship with
(05:47):
the rest of the world for various reasons, the location
being first and foremost. It would seem their strategic location
gives it a lot of control over that very strategically
located of Hormuz, which is a choke point for the
world's oil and energy trade.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yeah, and we game it out pretty often. I was
talking with some folks earlier about the recent Western strategies
that are all focused on how long the Iranian government
can choke the Strait of Hormuz. The numbers are looking wild,
(06:28):
and if we're all okay with it, we should disclose
to everyone on Netflix, everyone listening, that we have been
to the Middle East. We have not visited Tehran. It's
one of my dream cities to visit, but we have
been to Cutter and I think you Matt most recently,
(06:50):
how was your experience.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, I just got back from Guitar and one thing
you learn about that country if you're checking it out,
is that there's a great amount of wealth there for
citizens of Katar, human beings that were born and grew
up as Katari. There's money that you are given basically
(07:14):
that the country provides you with things as a citizen
because there's a tremendous amount of oil wealth there, right
of resource wealth that has existed on that fairly small
little peninsula there in the Persian Gulf. And being in
control of your own resources, as we find, is one
(07:35):
of the most amazing things you can experience as a
country and as a people's of a country. And it's
also one of the biggest sins you can commit when
it comes to the Western powers and the world order.
Attempting to gain control of your own resources, which is
(07:56):
the story we're talking about today with Iran, or.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Just retain control right, just say no to Aramco for instance.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Well, yeah, or in Iran, like back in nineteen sixteen,
that's when all of the new countries are formed after
world War One, and it's done by Western people, Western
powers deciding where the lines are for different countries without
respect to the human beings and the cultures that they're dividing.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Up right, Yeah, colonialism actually weaponized and predated upon the
existing indigenous or native tensions in any region throughout throughout
the continents, pretty much every continent except for Antarctica. Those
lines are purposely, not arbitrarily drawn. The idea is, if,
(08:48):
for instance, you find Hutu in Sutsi in Africa, right,
then you empower a certain part of the population to
victimize the others and extract resources on the way.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And if you look at Iran there after World War One,
when it is you know, when those lines are drawn,
it becomes a country. There's a lot of influence initially there,
and then you get to the point where in the
nineteen fifties, nineteen fifty three or two specifically, there's finally
an election of someone who's going to run Iran and
(09:25):
that person has ideas like, hey, maybe we should be
in control of our natural resources here in Iran, and
then six and the CIA quickly put that down. And
you can learn about the history of that just look
up nineteen fifty three Iran. Just pointing out here that
the Western influence and then you get to the atomic
(09:47):
dreams that Iran had when you're talking about new energy right,
and how to be independent of other nations and grab
your own power, grab the reins of power right as
a country. The United States it's offered that thing that
we talked about where you could get a basically a
research reactor for nuclear energy, and that is something that
(10:08):
the United States President Eisenhower gave to Iran. It was
a deal that was made a long time ago. I'm sorry, guys,
I'm going way out far a field here, just to
point out that how Iran got to the point where
it is now where we look at the problems we're
about to talk about, you cannot underestimate the amount of
(10:29):
influence the West and specifically the United States has had
to get them to this point where we now have
a major issue with them.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Oh agreed. This is a culmination. This is not out
of the blue. Over decades, Iran has waged proxy wars,
and proxy wars have been waged against Iran. It's undergone revolutions,
it's been embroiled in as Matt said, ongoing arguments about
(10:58):
nuclear technology. The other countries in the region, as well
as Western Europe and the United States, are convinced that
if Iran acquires nuclear weaponry, it will spell disaster for
what we call the current global order, might trigger World
War three. So it's no surprise that a lot of
(11:21):
people are working around the clock to analyze the situation,
to game out scenarios, and also to navigate what we
call off ramps. That's why Iran and the US are
talking again. It's so weird, man, geopolitics is so weird,
and that's all just the outside stuff. So we all
(11:46):
probably know about geopolitical tensions, and they do fuel the
current chaos. However, the domestic situation, as we record, has
escalated to a new level of unprecedented danger. Can we
talk a little bit about the Iran Israel war, the
(12:08):
most recent one.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I mean, where Israel is bombing the absolute crap out
of Iran.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
After killing nuclear scientists.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yes, we got to go back to Adams for peace.
Let's just talk about it really quickly, because I think
that is I think that is the crux of all
of this, at least in my mind. President Dwight, the
Eisenhower goes to the General Assembly of the United Nations
in nineteen fifty three makes a speech about this thing called.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Atoms for Peace.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
This is the idea that the United States government will
give out these research reactors to any country that wants
them if they if they promise essentially make a pinky property.
They signed yet, well, they signed some things that officially
state we will only use this atomic energy for peaceful means,
for energy production purposes.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Any kind of agreement like that between nations is like
you would say, none by right. It's sort of more
of like a gesture more than anything.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
There's a beautiful sentiment at the heart of it, I think,
and maybe this is propaganda one way or the other,
but this is a quote from Eisenhower. If a danger
exists in the world, it is a danger shared by all,
and equally that if hope exists in the mind of
one nation, that hope should be shared by all.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Point though, doesn't it by today's I mean, I'm not
trying to be negative. It's it's wonderful. I think it's
exactly right, but it just does not feel like the
prevailing sentiment. It seems like we've ventured so far into
isolationism and othering that it's just doesn't even really apply anymore,
or at least with folks in power.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
So what we're saying here is again this is more
a culmination of previous things. Obviously, geopolitic is full of bullies.
It's full of folks stepping on toes and grabbing it
from each other. Thank you for the beet, Dylan. However,
(14:04):
I love that Eisenhower quote because it does show us
good people exist. Dare we say a greater good?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
The concept right of a shared potential prosperity is really cool.
The weirdness comes in in that in nineteen fifty three,
the same year that that speech was given, is when
Prime Minister Mohammad mazude I don't know how to say
that correctly, Mossa d. E g H was overthrown. And
one of the primary reasons he was overthrown in Iran,
(14:34):
theoretically at least, was because he wanted oil for Iranians,
like Iranian oil for Iranians, which is a tale as
old as time.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
To discourse here, Sorry for interrupting everybody. Please remember the
CIA has officially stopped publishing the World Factbook.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
That's crazy, right, it's a bummer we got the last ones.
Well whatever, but it has information in here about Iran,
which is really cool every other country, so that occurs
right simultaneously. Sure, the United States in Iran in nineteen
fifty seven agreed to a civilian nuclear cooperation agreement. They
called it Cooperation concerning Civil Uses of Atoms And it
(15:14):
was directly through that Atoms for Peace idea that the
US put forward at the UN. And then two years
later there's this thing called the Tehran Nuclear Research Center
at the University of Tehran. So if you if you
look at the nuclear ambitions of the country of Iran,
they are literally begun by the United States of America.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Kind of create a lot of problems that we ultimately
find inconvenient down the line, or you know, offer solutions
for the problems that we sort of created, which.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Guys, you tell me, but that this rings a lot
like that concept where we provide the power or the
means for something that is potentially being could be used
to wield power. We provide that so that there is
a reasoning at some point for intervention if necessary.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
You create the problem to solve the problem.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
I do wonder though, I mean It's easy to be
completely cynical about that, and I would probably say that
I am that it is all a strategic play like
you're saying, or is it just a matter of like
we provide the means when we think we have the
country under our thumb to a certain degree, or using
it in a way that will benefit ourselves. But then
when they get the wherewithal to do things that benefit
(16:32):
them more than they benefit us, then all of a
sudden it becomes a problem.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Well said, don't the corporate interests of the American Empire
are inseparable from the state interest of the American Empire?
And we can obviously, folks, you can check out our
many episodes regarding colonialism in the Forever War. We are
(16:57):
coming to you with hopefully good news on Monday, February ninth,
as we record, the protest have paused. But guys, we
have to talk about the domestic unrest in Iran unprecedented.
We've got some folks on the ground. Can we talk
a little bit about the most recent Iran Israel war.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
I think we're also talking largely about protests resulting from
just untenable domestic conditions.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
In terms of prices.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Yeah, resources, the weakness of their currency, things that you know, again,
we're starting to feel over here as well in terms
of the things like affordability and grocery prices, and a
lot of the stuff that's being told to us is
actually totally fine, but then you know, to the individuals
on the ground that are feeling the pinch of those things,
it's absolutely not totally fine. And obviously we're not in
(17:52):
any way, shape or form to this degree, but we
are starting to see domestic unrest that could approach this
kind of thing down the line. So I would love to,
you know, not to put you find a point on
it or draw any false comparisons, but maybe just talk
a little bit about what some of those conditions are,
maybe what led to those conditions in a country that
seems so utterly Scrooge McDuck levels of swimming and cash.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
You know, well, you nailed it, Noel. So for everybody
tuning in at home, the most recent thing called the
Iran Israel War started June thirteenth. June twenty fourth, there
was an official ceasefire agreement. No one in the game
trust each other. The things you're talking about here, man,
(18:42):
The factors are stuff like sanctions, brutal sanctions. This is
total war stuff. It leads to economic decline. The value
of the currency is plummeting, unemployment reaches disaster levels. This
tension leads to what opposition forces we'll call a crisis
(19:03):
of legitimacy. And now we got massive protests that rocked
the nations, And interestingly, this is unusual for the government
of Iran. There were signs of deep descent within the
top brass themselves. Everybody is like the three spider man
pointing at each other meme. They're accusing each other being spies.
(19:27):
They're saying they're internal threats. These are signals of collapse
from within. Now. I don't know if we want to
get into the weeds here, but we do have a
couple of examples of government officials in Iran right now
fighting with each other, which is weird, again, unusual.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Which I guess seems pretty standard practice for at least
the kind of government stuff that we deal with over here,
in terms of officials being on various sides of very
issues and beefing internally. So this maybe is a little
different than just your average run of the mill disagreements
over politics.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Oh my gosh, all right, so let's go to Salar Abnush,
member of the Parliamentary Security Commission. He demands a crackdown
on infiltrators and undesirable elements inside the government, and a
lot of people disagree with him. They say that the government,
(20:31):
like any other government in trouble, is scrambling for scapegoats, spies,
intelligence breaches, corporate shenanigans, and of course immigration Afghan immigrants
are being targeted actively by the government of.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Iran's so weird. I didn't I genuinely just still don't
understand the systems of government, you know, in a place
like Iran, that is in Islamic republic. But that is
only a term that is used to describe the system.
It's it's quite complicated there. There is, you know, a
form of legislature there, a parliament, right, yeah, it's they're stronger,
(21:14):
there are much stronger controls at the top, right, similar
to the way the executive powers in this country are
being strengthened and gripped onto like something probably inappropriate that
I would say, but it is just it is very
it's interesting to know that there are people who could
have dissenting voices. It's just there are perhaps different. Uh,
(21:36):
how would you say it? Guys? There are may be
different consequences for certain types of disagreement.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Yeah, that makes sense because of the because of the
more historically totalitarian nature of of of what the ruler
is ultimately able to do right, kind of unilaterally, right,
Is that what you mean?
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah, the oka see an absolute majesty essentially one who
speaks for God, you know what I mean. The government
up until recently was a highly coordinated, unified propaganda machine.
So it's interesting to see folks like Mohammed Manan Rassi
(22:19):
respond to a political colleague and say, no, the immigration's
not the problem, it's us. We're the ones messing up, right,
And this is why global activists, humanitarian groups like Amnesty
International are condemning the response to recent unrest. Everyone outside
(22:44):
of the official government of Iran is saying that instead
of pushing for peaceful dialogue, the government is continually cracking down,
tightening domestic control, black out the internet, repressing the public,
executing people, isolating itself from the world. And also we
(23:08):
have to give a soft note here. Typically when you
read Western reports about Iran, you're going to run into
the old rule, which is if we like a government,
we call it a government. If we don't like a government,
we call it a regime.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Tell a weird to be talking about this, just living
in the United States right now, and just how strong
all of these things that we've been taught, as we
learn about geopolitics, as we learn about state craft and
all of these things and diplomatic relations, and then just
to see what's going on inside our own house while
there's stuff going on outside h the I think it's hypocrisy,
(23:54):
but it's not.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
I don't know how.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
It's just the state we're all in right now, with
where there are billionaires and oligarchs everywhere doing everything they
can to hang on to the power and money they've
got and to make more, and the rest of us
just kind of sit here and we're the grass, right.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I like water. I like to drink it, I like
to bathe in it. I think more people should have it.
I don't know why that became a hot take, but
that's what's happening, to your point, with the control of oligarchs,
the control of the global bullies. This is a very
vulnerable time for so many economies around the world, especially
(24:34):
the Iranian economy. The aftermath of the most recent conflict
with Israel has pushed the people and institutions alike to
a breaking point. So our question is what's happening now?
Our bigger question is what happens next. We're going to
pause for a word from our sponsor. Years it gets crazy,
(25:01):
all right.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Protests, dude, for sure, protests I did. I was just
thinking this whole, this concept in Iran Israel war is
so interesting to me. And maybe I am over inflating
the importance of the bunker buster attack that the US played,
the little surprise we're gonna attack your nuclear infrastructure Iran
thing that happened. Is that just considered the US stepping
(25:27):
in to help an ally Israel? Is that just how like?
It's so it's the Iran Israel war and the US
just did this little thing. The US isn't lumped in
there in any way as being.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yeah, they got a couple ice gold Maduros. For sure.
The issue there is strange in that there was active bargaining,
so Iran would later launch attacks in response in retaliation,
and they gave the US and Israel heads up. They said, hey,
(26:01):
how do you feel we're gonna we got a response,
We're going to hit this one.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Well, it's just weird that it happened on the twenty second, right,
which is like right before what is supposedly the end
of that quick little war that happened, right, but there's
still crazy tensions occurring right now. It's just really confusing,
I think thinking about what the sides actually are, especially
given everything we've learned about the way the CIA would
(26:25):
go through and destabilize a nation, and how much of
that is at play when we look at Iran right now,
it's I think it's just hard to know as we
move on to this next section, what is real?
Speaker 3 (26:36):
What is real?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
What is real when it comes to people who are
attempting to or without their knowledge, disrupting and destabilizing a country?
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Right is uh? The recent wave of protest and the
resulting death toll, is it organic or was it orchestrated
by Western agents? That's a big deal. That's a big
question because there is unfortunate precedent for it. So beginning
in late December twenty twenty five, protesters were demonstrating across
(27:12):
multiple cities small towns in Iran. This is the largest
uprising since the Islamic Revolution of nineteen seventy nine. The
government did not reply with dialogue, by the way, or
regime if you like. Instead, we're looking at the green
lighting of live fire on the public, actually shooting the public,
(27:37):
not with rubber bullets like in Santiago during their constitutional referendum.
We're talking about massacres of innocent people resulting in the
deaths of tens of thousands. We're going to keep some
of our contacts anonymous for their safety, but what we
(27:59):
heard on the ground is that at this point everyone
in Iran is either related to or knows of someone
who died during these protests.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
That's intense. That's a tragic and horrible man. Again, just
from my perspective, guys, it's hard to know what's real. Like,
I don't have those contacts, so I genuinely don't know.
But it I worry that I'm being sold a story
that would make me really angry at the government of Iran,
(28:33):
and I know that it doesn't mean I would be
happy with or excited about the government Iran. I worry
that I'm being sold a story.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Right, just you know, a narrative.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
If we've yeah, if we've really got people that are
saying that then at least and if we can trust
those sources, then I'm then that makes sense to me.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Well, let's go back to what you were saying earlier, Noel.
The protests are beginning because of economic factors, right.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
Yeah, for sure. I mean normal things that people depend on,
like we were mentioning resources, water, price of goods, and
normal just existence type stuff. I mean, that is truly
what causes people to riot in the streets when they
feel threatened or unable to live a normal life as
they you know, deserve in a country that they love,
(29:21):
you know, where where they have generational.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Ties and cultural ties.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
Again, I don't mean to keep drawing any kind of
false equivalency between what's going on here and what's going
on there, but it does seem that it takes it
takes some real hardships, you know, for people to mobilize
in this way and put themselves in harm's way more
than just ideological issues.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Yeah, the economics will move the people. Right. So, initially,
the most recent protest demonstrations they start with kind of
a boycott in the Grand Bizarre. So these shopkeepers, these merchants,
they say the current currency is trash. Someone should fix it.
(30:09):
We're not going to open our doors, not today. We'll
stand outside and if you want us to tell you
why we're closed, we're happy to do so. The government
got super pissed. University students join in. The protests spread
to other major cities, metastasizes to smaller towns. It starts,
(30:34):
as Noel said, and a reaction to economic issues, then
it blossoms to a larger movement to ouse the current government.
The public has long distrusted the theocracy of Iran, accusing
them of criminal activity, of suppressing human rights, of corruption.
(30:56):
Fast forward January eighth, twenty not too long ago, as
we record one point five million protesters flooded road by
January ninth, five million protesters, again, innocent people as far
as we know, they were out across the nation. And
(31:19):
at this point, obviously the government is going to say,
maybe the CIA or Masad has a hand in this,
and we could not find We could find some evidence
of encouraging things, but we could not find evidence of
orchestrating things. Maybe you guys found something I don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Well, it's just a reminder that we didn't know about
the Iran contra thing right as it was happening. Nobody did,
and nobody knew the US was training people and doing
all that stuff until it was finally outed, right, and
there were hearings about it, and then it was known.
So I think when stuff like this happens, if there
(32:03):
is any involvement with whatever am I six anybody, you're
not going to know until there's some official somewhere that
decides to either to classify something or holds it is
part of a Senate hearing somewhere, or you an assembly
somewhere and they finally state it.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Or the players are dead. And I like that you
mentioned m I.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Six well, and that is not to say that this
is definitely orchestrated, right, But it's also just a reminder
that you don't have to orchestrate one and a half
million people or five million people on the streets, right.
You don't have to be out there or organizing to
make something like this happen. You have to put ideas
in people's heads, and you have to be really effective
(32:45):
with those ideas, and then you can make it happen.
Just going back to the super Bowl, the two different
super Bowl halftime shows that happen this year, there are serious,
effective propaganda going on everywhere you look, and it's usually
to sell something, and you know, maybe in this case,
if there is something going on, it's to sell regime change.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
We also have to exercise empathy for the very real
people who have actually died, right and yeah, yeah, and
we know that we know that there are narrative wars
eternally to your point about the competing super Bowl thing,
like outside analysts are going to tell you that the
(33:31):
accusations from the Erodian officials or the Erodian government of
western orchestration, they may be a tactic to make the
military or the guard feel okay with killing innocent people, like, hey,
you're not really shooting or you're not really murdering a
(33:55):
conscientious objector or a protester. You are shooting the enemy
who has become a tool of the West. You know,
that's dangerous stuff.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
It's complicated stuff, because how does a singular ice agent
decide to kill Alex Preddy? You know, like, what how
did he view that human being in order to just
pull a trigger?
Speaker 3 (34:18):
And not how did you other them?
Speaker 4 (34:19):
Well, the question there too, is it a matter of
overt racism? Is it a matter of overt othering? And
looking at someone as a person that needs to be eliminated.
Is it just poor training, is it just a mix
of all of those things. I think it's probably that
for sure, not to derail this particular conversation, but you
bring that up, Matt. It is getting inside of the
(34:41):
mind of someone that does a thing like that. There
are multiple factors at play, and it is you do
have to wonder if it's institutional or if it's an
individual and their particular beliefs and the way they view people,
or if there is a larger, you know, kind of
philosophical thing at play.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
And we've talked about before. How do you convince a
human being to pick up a rifle and shoot it
directly at another human being? Right, that is just the
same as you, maybe has some different beliefs or whatever,
But how do you get them to do that? And
we learned about that, We learned about basic training for
any military and what that does. And there's brainwashing that
goes into that stuff to create enemies, right, we know
(35:23):
that governments across the world take great pains to create
enemies that you can then train your soldiers to view
as less than Yeah, I mean, that's a thing so
I just, you know, it does maybe wonder what goes
through the minds of somebody in Iran shooting people who
are it is you just you know, standing on the
(35:44):
other side of a fence or something.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, That's why I'm asking that
narrative aspect is the analysts are saying the current government
is trying to dehumanize the military and the guard and
make it easier for them to exercise live fire on protesters.
(36:07):
This is okay. So if there is a leader of
this domestic protest, you're going to have a hard time
finding one. But there is an icon, the most well
known Reza Pahlavi, the son of Iran's last shaw. This
guy is yeah, yep, see see the narrative war there.
(36:30):
So Pallavi has laid out some concrete request from the
protest movement toward the government. The chief thing is a
peaceful transition away from the current status quo and a
quote nationwide referendum to determine a future political system. Wow. Yeah,
(36:52):
government did not like it, Ayatola said, not a good vibe.
They just kept cracking down harder early this year. In fact,
we're recording again in twenty twenty six, the Orateian government
conducted a nationwide internet and telecom blackout. This does appear
(37:12):
to be an attempt to stop protesters from organizing.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yeah, that's intense when that happens. Yeah, we've gained planned
on this show about what do we do when that
happens here? Right when the Internet just is out and
your phone can't get self service and it's.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
Like mad Max all of a sudden. This is like
it makes you realize how weak we are in terms
of like our dependence on this kind of stuff. And
I know that you guys are proponents of the go
bag and then you've got your boy scout history and stuff.
But man, the moment the power goes out or sell
service is on the blink, it really makes you feel
that thing in the pit of your stomach and makes
you realize how powerless we are. You know, how much
(37:52):
we rely on those types of comms and just creature comforts.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
That's why community and goodwill is paramount, right I mean which.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Yes, sorry, I just meaning and community being something that
is increasingly or decreasingly rather being fostered because of the Internet,
because of those very same things that we're talking about,
which could be a way to reach out and create community.
Instead seems to be something that creates this myopic bubble
type existence, at least here in the US. And I
(38:20):
know that social media has been responsible for the ability
in other countries to foment revolution and to create and
reach out to like minded folks, But I just I
don't know. It just feels like such a slippery slope,
and I'm just wondering how that plays into this particular
situation over there.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
I love that you're pointing that out. You're talking about
what we call the third space, a space that is
not work, is not home, is community, and does not
require you to pay to be there, you know, like
public parks, we still have them. For a second, knock
on wood. In this sense, we also have to note
(39:03):
a terrible prediction the right to peaceable assembly is endangered
in the United States. In Iran, quite recently, hospitals were
overwhelmed by the sheer number of wounded protesters. Often these
folks were suffering from grievous gunshot wounds. Thousands have been
(39:25):
murdered in the streets, thousands more have been arrested. We
don't know what has happened to a lot of the
people who were arrested, their families can't find out. And
luckily protesters have been able to figure out some workarounds
to communicate with the Western world or you know, with
(39:46):
sources outside of Iran. The situation just appears to be worsening.
I know, we're all read up on the current death
toll statistics. Looking like the West is saying it looks
like thirty thousand protesters to thirty six thousand, five hundred
(40:08):
protesters murdered. The local reports are saying forty plus, forty
thousand plus.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
It's unbelievable. It's it's mind blowing. It's mind blowing that
it isn't even as a bigger story. And I know
that it is a bigger story, and we've got a
whole lot of big domestic stories going on over here
that are distracting people from a lot of bigger things
elsewhere in the world. It's such a show. But that
is unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
It's unclean, for sure.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Okay, So let's say this exact thing was happening in
the US, and imagine that we are outside of the
US watching it happen, and there's thirty six thousand Americans
that have been killed by the let's say the federal government.
What is the way out of that situation or what
is how can you as a third party right outside
(40:57):
the situation, like, what.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Do you do?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
What would be done?
Speaker 3 (41:01):
What's the off ramp? You know, that's that's the euphemism
that we deploy in international talks. You know, it's it's
crazy still. I like that comparison. We're not saying we
are authorities. Obviously none of us have visited tron. We
hope to go one day. But it came down to
(41:23):
doctors and medical staff having to assemble an ad hoc
network to check in with each other and say, how
many people are dying due to these protests in your
hospital or in your clinic today. The doctors themselves cannot
put an exact number or the death toll. They do
(41:46):
say that all sources are underestimating stuff. The government is
continuing the crackdown. As our good friend of the show,
Robert Evans says, it could happen here. What a weird
time for NAT break. Yeah, uh, And we have returned
(42:15):
right now. Iran and the US have kicked off another
round of talks. Have you guys heard about this?
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Yeah, we stated today's Monday, February ninth. As we're recording,
we were, I think February sixth and fifth is when
there was quite a lot being said about you know,
those talks right that were going down where there was
a team of US folks and Iran folks getting together
in a neutral territory in Oman there to talk through
(42:49):
these things. You know, there's all kinds of positive messaging
coming from at least the US White House about how
great the talks went, but then you can see, you know,
details coming for us. It's like out of Al Jazeera,
the Guardian and a couple other Western sources talking about specifically
what some of the Iranian officials are saying, and just stating, hey,
(43:09):
we are not going to agree to any preconceived preconditions, right,
and we're not going to start the talk and say, okay,
you know, before we do anything, we agree to that.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
At the same time imposing the two big preconditions being
this conversation is only about the nuclear question, yes, and
there shall be no harassment, no bullying, given that the
West obviously is a notorious historical bully to the people
of Iran.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Oh yeah, well, and these are the first talk since
the bunker busters were dropped on Iran's nuclear program, which
may or may not have had devastating or no effect.
We have no idea, which is so funny. Again, like
both things, it's just out there. Who knows what actually happened.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
Two bad things can be true at the same time for.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
Sure, right, And there's no real Again we're in that place,
no real what's the best outcome? I guess no nuclear capabilities.
But then you're back to the oil money and who's
in control of the oil money? And that's every freaking
time in history. It's about the oil money and the resources, right,
(44:24):
and he wants to get their hands on them.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Yeah, and the larger picture for sure, Like I think
we're all also thinking on the microcosmic scale, Like there
are people who are brilliant, right living in this country,
in the US and in Iran, but for our purposes
in Iran, and they have kids, and their currency is plummeting,
(44:47):
and it's variable beyond their control. You know, the power
is going out and then back on and then back out.
And it's not a storm. It's due to human creative
chaos targeted at innocent people. This is total war. And
I think, oh, yeah, I think the West has a
(45:08):
hand in it. I just want us to acknowledge that
there are innocent people. Man, they don't deserve this kind
of stuff, well for sure.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
So you've got these superpowers posturing against each other. You
look at the news we've all been following, where the
USS Abraham Lincoln and all of its glory is heading
straight over there towards Iran as a threat.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
We know this.
Speaker 4 (45:30):
It's a threat.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
It's hey, here's an aircraft carrier. We'll mess you up
if you don't do what we want you to do.
Remember that time we dropped that bunker Buster, which was
not that long ago.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
Remember that time you guys didn't give me a Nobel
Peace Prize, and so I said, I'll start more wars.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
But it's bigger than Donald Trump. Right, it's not just
one man. It is the weight of the United States
as a superpower attempting to impose its will just with
a threat. Right, So you better talk to us. Do
you see that aircraft career out there? It means business.
Now you're going to give up this stuff we want
you to give up. And Iran it's really cool, but
(46:09):
I don't know, like what side am I supposed to
believe in am I just supposed to see everything as
gray as it actually is. Because Iran is saying, hey,
you can't threaten us, right, you can't threaten us like that, which.
Speaker 4 (46:20):
Is their prerogative and I think the right move. But
we're also talking about a horrific act of you know,
barbaric in humanitarianism, if that's even a word like. I mean,
I think the way they're comporting themselves in terms of
standing up for their country and their rights to have
energy and dependence and to be able to you know,
all of that stuff, that's its own thing. But we're
(46:42):
also talking about a regime that is brutally murdering civilians,
which is not good.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
I mean, nailed it there, because it's it's all about how,
going back to the earlier comment, it's all about how
a conversation her right. So for instance, folks, if I
walk up to someone and I have a problem with them,
and I want to have a quote unquote dialogue, then
(47:12):
man's man approach is very different from if I walked
up to them and Noel Matt, I had you guys, Dylan,
you as well. I had you guys in black suits
and sunglasses standing behind me right at the door like
a aircraft carrier, and I said, hey, just want to
(47:33):
check in, man, how's that uranium? Is it rich? Is
it enriched? We should hang that's a threat, that's a
veiled threat. That's harassment, that's bullying. Both sides are doing this.
We're not saying there is any good person in the conversation.
We are saying there are good people being victimized, and
(47:57):
we don't know what's going to happen next. As a
matter of fact, let's check the news. What do you say,
What do we get? What are updates?
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Last thing I just want to say here on the
remembrance part, right, do you remember do you guys remember
in twenty fifteen when there was a deal that was
struck under the Obama administration, right specifically about all of
this stuff, and then the US just decided, oh, that's
not a thing.
Speaker 3 (48:22):
Anymore, which makes us untrustworthy because we blow with the wind. Right.
It's one of the main arguments against democracy actually is
if a leader exists for four years, what happens the
next year? What happens at year five? Right?
Speaker 4 (48:41):
You know, it's interesting speaking of Qatar, for example, one
thing that I think Ben, You and I and maybe
Matt you had some of these conversations as well. Is
one reason that folks in the US like to do
business with those countries, or with katar in particular, is
because there's not going to be a regime change, so
you can depend on that attitude remaining assistent like into
(49:02):
the future. I don't mean that's not necessarily what we're
talking about, but I just did think that was worth
mentioning because it came up a couple of times where we,
you know, had some dinners and we're mixing with some
folks from some big American companies, and that was kind
of the sentiments, you know, that it's a lot easier
to do business with a regime that is going to
have is going to stay the course longer than four years,
(49:23):
because here in the States the wind could completely shift
in terms of attitude towards different types of you know, policies.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Cutter is also, to your point, no Cutter is also
becoming sort of the Switzerland of the Middle East, you know,
as in a place where parties that would usually be
Hamburger Helper level beefed up with each other will meet
and have what Corporate America calls a healthy discourse.
Speaker 4 (49:53):
Now an open dialogue?
Speaker 3 (49:54):
Right, yeah? Now are they going to be friends when
they get off the peninsula? Who knows? Hope springs eternal.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
I think that's one of the biggest takeaways from everything
we've been talking about this episode is how difficult it's
becoming to know how much of your perspective is in
that bubble that we always warn about, right that we
that we keep seeing the bubble developing around us just
from the stuff that we do online, but also like
in my case being in Qatar, I saw goodwill, I
(50:26):
saw kindness, I saw generosity, but how much of that
was you know, meant to be for the people who
went to Web Summit, you know.
Speaker 4 (50:34):
I described it, Matt was like I saw those things too,
and felt this very modern kind of city and and
like very focused on outward business relationships and all that stuff.
But I always sensed what I've described to people as
a vague, overarching, hovering fog of oppression just in the background,
you know what.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
I mean, A little bit, a little bit.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
And in all these things as we're discussing and to
think about them like it feels it just feels similar
to me not knowing when avail is being pulled over
for one reason or another by one party or another,
And at some point you just got to have to
feel a way about a thing and then move on
to the next thing or think away about a thing,
(51:17):
unless you're actually, let's say, in this case, actually in
Iran and wanting change and attempting to achieve change, and
to seeing people around you getting killed, if not getting
killed yourself.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
Contacts on the ground have confirmed the protests have paused
for now. Erodian authorities, most recently have arrested four more
people on charges of attempting to disrupt the country's political
and social order for the benefit of Israel and the
United States. And again, most importantly, I cannot overemphasize this,
(51:56):
Our thoughts are with the innocent people, the people of Ron.
So we want to thank all the activists, the protesters,
the doctors. Oh my god, you guys are the doctors.
Speaker 4 (52:08):
Oh, I can only imagine a quick question, is there
a similar narrative over there justifying this type of intense
lethal action, casting these people as paid instigators or as
in any way agitators or domestic terrorists, And as we're
hearing a lot of that kind of talk. And again,
I'm sorry to keep drawing those parallels, but it's hard
(52:28):
not to, especially seeing the beginnings of that type of
language being employed over here when people are just trying
to stand up for their rights, their civil rights, you know,
their rights to property, their rights to whatever it might be.
The safety one hundred percent and the shifting sands of
(52:48):
that kind of discourse being something that really really freaks
me out. So I haven't followed it as closely as
I know you have been. So is that how are
what is the line the party line they're using to
justify wholesale execution of these protesters.
Speaker 3 (53:03):
The party line currently is, to earlier point, it is
currently the idea that the protests are inorganic. It is
not due to domestic problems. It is due to Western interference.
So like oss company boys have come in and given
(53:26):
a bunch of people training. That's the idea. But then
also you'll see a lot of folks blaming immigration, specifically
from Afghanistan, and they're saying, oh, it's these Afghan immigrants, right,
They're causing problems. The ordinary Iranian citizen is being brainwashed
(53:48):
by these people. So when you shoot someone, they say
to their military to their version of ice. You are
not shooting and innocent person. You are shooting for an agitator.
It's something less surrounding it, something less American, something less
human than you. And that's a frightening thing. That's why
(54:11):
our thoughts are with the people. You know, if you
want more resources ways to keep abreast of the news,
we've we've done an okay job. I think of getting
passed or at least navigating and acknowledging the info war occurring.
If you have personal insight to the situation, you can
(54:32):
write to us.
Speaker 2 (54:33):
And one last thing before we talked about that, guys,
there was a quick detour that I saw in the
news and it was very interesting. I had just had
a conversation with a very interesting, very kind man who
grew up in Libya and had to move away after
you know, the assassination uprising against Godafi, and we had
(54:55):
a really great conversation about the good and bad of
that particular leader, and you know, at least his thoughts
on why that leader was taken out made me think
about our exploration explorations that you can find both on
YouTube and on our podcast feed wherever you listen to those.
But I just saw in the news that the son
(55:16):
of Gaddafi, Saif al Islam Gadaffi, was just killed, and
the information that's being put out officially through channels there
is very different. He was either you know, killed at
his home or he was killed in this other place,
and why was he killed? And there's just I wonder
if you guys had heard anything about that or had
better intel than I got.
Speaker 4 (55:37):
Now that's news to me, Matt, But it definitely seems
like some some somembs fishy there. For sure have to
do a little more digging myself. But that I'm sure
you were aware.
Speaker 3 (55:47):
Unfortunately, we can't confirm he has passed away. But to
your earlier point there, Matt, the narrative is still solidifying,
and for now that's the show. If you'd like more
resources or ways to keep abreast of the news and
help us navigate this narrative, or if you have personal
(56:10):
insight to the situation, please feel free to write to us.
Speaker 4 (56:14):
Yeah, you can reach us an ameriative ways, including on
your social media platform of choice at the handle Conspiracy
Stuff or Conspiracy Stuff Show. Depending. You can also give
us a phone call.
Speaker 2 (56:25):
Yes you can. Before you tell you that just a
couple of things to look up on your own. Go
ahead and check out the Brookings Institute and a little
thing titled sixty years of Atoms for Peace in Iran's
nuclear program. It's just a great primer on how that
whole thing functions because it's something that we didn't know
(56:46):
that much about before we went into this episode. And
also Forbes article a brief one hundred year history of
Iran West relationships that just goes it goes back into
detail about the manipulation that has occurred since World War
One and before. If you do want to call us,
our number is one eight three three st d WYTK.
(57:08):
Turn those letters into numbers, then give it a call
and leave us a voicemail. If you want to hear
that voicemail, you'll have to check out our podcast feed
for one of our listener mail episodes. If you'd like
to send us an email, you could do that too.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
We are Oh, that's one of the best ways to
find us, folks. No word limit, no guidelines, no rules,
Just send us your thoughts, send a random fact, get
one in return. I'd also like to recommend the excellent
work of Greg J. Stoker on Colonial Outcast. If you
(57:42):
are interested in hearing more about the Forever War, please
check out Greg's work. In the meantime, you can find
us any time you like out here in the Dark
Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (58:15):
Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is no.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer, Dylan the Tennessee palle Vegan. Most importantly, you
are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff
they don't want you to know? And welcome, Welcome, welcome back.
We are recording this episode on Oh guys, I had
it in the notes as Friday, February sixth, Now we're
(00:54):
nine February Monday. Anyway, we're traveling to a rod.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Figured it in our minds and definitely in our hearts.
Stuff is not going super well over there.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Understatement, Yeah, but it's great over here.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Don't you think we just had a Super Bowl?
Speaker 4 (01:11):
Super that's for sure, apparently with a very offensive halftime show.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
It's not superb Owl.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Did you guys watch the halftime show? I just saw
the clips I did. Yeah, you said it was pretty cool, right?
It was like quite quite the spectacle.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I watched both of them.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, the one that played, you know, on the television
on NBC only on NBC, just like the Olympics. Apparently
they're really wow, they're getting the programming over there, aren't they.
That one was really cool, it it, especially if you
watch them of the analysis afterwards, just the symbolic nature
of what was shown on the sets, you know, in particular.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Became very wholesome exploration of history of what it means
to be an American in Puerto Rico.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
So what and why the why all the beef? I
just don't I've never I mean, not even to politicize
any of it, but I just seems like sort of
a the guy's a big star, he's got hits, he's
Spanish language artist. Is that the lone point of contention?
The fact that his songs are not in English?
Speaker 3 (02:12):
There's linguistic tension for sure, that's it.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Well, you know, for me watching it and only being
able to speak a little bit of Spanish, you know,
and where I can understand bits and pieces, and then
based on what imagery I'm being shown, I can pick
up a few more of the words, but I don't
know the phrases. I don't understand exactly what the story is. Again,
they did a great job visually telling the story throughout
(02:36):
the show, but there is like this. I don't know
how to characterize it other than a slight unsettling feeling
wishing wishing I could understand it better than I currently do.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
If that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
Does that make you angry, Matt? I'm sorry, I'm joking. Obviously,
it just seems. I don't mean to beat a dead horse.
I just fully don't quite understand why people are so
up in arms about the particular halftime show.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
It's a performative thing to be angry about. It's a
culture war thing like Oh, someone's canceling Christmas. It is
indicative of a domestic tension. I will point out that
the superb Owl is most famous economically as a thing
for advertisements, Oh you're gonna watch. It doesn't matter who
(03:26):
wins or loses, good job, Seahawks, etc. But the main
issue is look at that production value on all the stuff,
and then ask yourself if that money could have built
a library, or fed some kids, or given some elderly
(03:46):
people healthcare.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
I thought you were going to say it doesn't matter
who wins or loses, it's just how you play the game,
because that's the motto here.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
I did watch that al Paccino's speech. We know that
domestic tensions in the United States are at a boiling point.
We also know that in Iran things are going much worse.
The countries rulers and military are not just kidnapping people,
(04:16):
they're murdering protesters on mass There's a collapsing economy, there's
a water crisis. There is always a looming threat of war.
Did you not sign it that the Super Bowl halftime show?
I guess.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
And by the way, when you say superbowel, it makes
me think of the really fancy one they have at
the Bohemian Grove meetings that's always going on about. But
don't these things that you just mentioned, Ben feel and
I'm not trying to be too hyperbolic here, feel like
things that we're on the cusp of here in the
United States. Is this just like an escalation or like
a look into what the worst possible escalation of these
(04:53):
types of things could be?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
God damn, you are cool. Yes, exactly. So this is
the question, right what is going on in Iran? We're
going to pause for a word from our sponsors, will
be right back. Here are the facts. All right. If
you want a deep dive on Persian Iranian history, please
(05:18):
do check out our earlier episode from twenty eighteen, Iran
and Imperialism.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
That's the one, right, Hey, that's the one that's right
twenty eighteen. Ron is a beautiful country, you know, often
referred to as the you know, a birthplace of civilization.
That region in particular, it has had this ongoing tension
and sort of a very mixed relationship, troubling relationship with
(05:47):
the rest of the world for various reasons, the location
being first and foremost. It would seem their strategic location
gives it a lot of control over that very strategically
located of Hormuz, which is a choke point for the
world's oil and energy trade.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Yeah, and we game it out pretty often. I was
talking with some folks earlier about the recent Western strategies
that are all focused on how long the Iranian government
can choke the Strait of Hormuz. The numbers are looking wild,
(06:28):
and if we're all okay with it, we should disclose
to everyone on Netflix, everyone listening, that we have been
to the Middle East. We have not visited Tehran. It's
one of my dream cities to visit, but we have
been to Cutter and I think you Matt most recently,
(06:50):
how was your experience.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, I just got back from Guitar and one thing
you learn about that country if you're checking it out,
is that there's a great amount of wealth there for
citizens of Katar, human beings that were born and grew
up as Katari. There's money that you are given basically
(07:14):
that the country provides you with things as a citizen
because there's a tremendous amount of oil wealth there, right
of resource wealth that has existed on that fairly small
little peninsula there in the Persian Gulf. And being in
control of your own resources, as we find, is one
(07:35):
of the most amazing things you can experience as a
country and as a people's of a country. And it's
also one of the biggest sins you can commit when
it comes to the Western powers and the world order.
Attempting to gain control of your own resources, which is
(07:56):
the story we're talking about today with Iran, or.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Just retain control right, just say no to Aramco for instance.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Well, yeah, or in Iran, like back in nineteen sixteen,
that's when all of the new countries are formed after
world War One, and it's done by Western people, Western
powers deciding where the lines are for different countries without
respect to the human beings and the cultures that they're dividing.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Up right, Yeah, colonialism actually weaponized and predated upon the
existing indigenous or native tensions in any region throughout throughout
the continents, pretty much every continent except for Antarctica. Those
lines are purposely, not arbitrarily drawn. The idea is, if,
(08:48):
for instance, you find Hutu in Sutsi in Africa, right,
then you empower a certain part of the population to
victimize the others and extract resources on the way.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And if you look at Iran there after World War One,
when it is you know, when those lines are drawn,
it becomes a country. There's a lot of influence initially there,
and then you get to the point where in the
nineteen fifties, nineteen fifty three or two specifically, there's finally
an election of someone who's going to run Iran and
(09:25):
that person has ideas like, hey, maybe we should be
in control of our natural resources here in Iran, and
then six and the CIA quickly put that down. And
you can learn about the history of that just look
up nineteen fifty three Iran. Just pointing out here that
the Western influence and then you get to the atomic
(09:47):
dreams that Iran had when you're talking about new energy right,
and how to be independent of other nations and grab
your own power, grab the reins of power right as
a country. The United States it's offered that thing that
we talked about where you could get a basically a
research reactor for nuclear energy, and that is something that
(10:08):
the United States President Eisenhower gave to Iran. It was
a deal that was made a long time ago. I'm sorry, guys,
I'm going way out far a field here, just to
point out that how Iran got to the point where
it is now where we look at the problems we're
about to talk about, you cannot underestimate the amount of
(10:29):
influence the West and specifically the United States has had
to get them to this point where we now have
a major issue with them.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Oh agreed. This is a culmination. This is not out
of the blue. Over decades, Iran has waged proxy wars,
and proxy wars have been waged against Iran. It's undergone revolutions,
it's been embroiled in as Matt said, ongoing arguments about
(10:58):
nuclear technology. The other countries in the region, as well
as Western Europe and the United States, are convinced that
if Iran acquires nuclear weaponry, it will spell disaster for
what we call the current global order, might trigger World
War three. So it's no surprise that a lot of
(11:21):
people are working around the clock to analyze the situation,
to game out scenarios, and also to navigate what we
call off ramps. That's why Iran and the US are
talking again. It's so weird, man, geopolitics is so weird,
and that's all just the outside stuff. So we all
(11:46):
probably know about geopolitical tensions, and they do fuel the
current chaos. However, the domestic situation, as we record, has
escalated to a new level of unprecedented danger. Can we
talk a little bit about the Iran Israel war, the
(12:08):
most recent one.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I mean, where Israel is bombing the absolute crap out
of Iran.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
After killing nuclear scientists.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yes, we got to go back to Adams for peace.
Let's just talk about it really quickly, because I think
that is I think that is the crux of all
of this, at least in my mind. President Dwight, the
Eisenhower goes to the General Assembly of the United Nations
in nineteen fifty three makes a speech about this thing called.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Atoms for Peace.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
This is the idea that the United States government will
give out these research reactors to any country that wants
them if they if they promise essentially make a pinky property.
They signed yet, well, they signed some things that officially
state we will only use this atomic energy for peaceful means,
for energy production purposes.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
Any kind of agreement like that between nations is like
you would say, none by right. It's sort of more
of like a gesture more than anything.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
There's a beautiful sentiment at the heart of it, I think,
and maybe this is propaganda one way or the other,
but this is a quote from Eisenhower. If a danger
exists in the world, it is a danger shared by all,
and equally that if hope exists in the mind of
one nation, that hope should be shared by all.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Point though, doesn't it by today's I mean, I'm not
trying to be negative. It's it's wonderful. I think it's
exactly right, but it just does not feel like the
prevailing sentiment. It seems like we've ventured so far into
isolationism and othering that it's just doesn't even really apply anymore,
or at least with folks in power.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
So what we're saying here is again this is more
a culmination of previous things. Obviously, geopolitic is full of bullies.
It's full of folks stepping on toes and grabbing it
from each other. Thank you for the beet, Dylan. However,
(14:04):
I love that Eisenhower quote because it does show us
good people exist. Dare we say a greater good?
Speaker 2 (14:11):
The concept right of a shared potential prosperity is really cool.
The weirdness comes in in that in nineteen fifty three,
the same year that that speech was given, is when
Prime Minister Mohammad mazude I don't know how to say
that correctly, Mossa d. E g H was overthrown. And
one of the primary reasons he was overthrown in Iran,
(14:34):
theoretically at least, was because he wanted oil for Iranians,
like Iranian oil for Iranians, which is a tale as
old as time.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
To discourse here, Sorry for interrupting everybody. Please remember the
CIA has officially stopped publishing the World Factbook.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
That's crazy, right, it's a bummer we got the last ones.
Well whatever, but it has information in here about Iran,
which is really cool every other country, so that occurs
right simultaneously. Sure, the United States in Iran in nineteen
fifty seven agreed to a civilian nuclear cooperation agreement. They
called it Cooperation concerning Civil Uses of Atoms And it
(15:14):
was directly through that Atoms for Peace idea that the
US put forward at the UN. And then two years
later there's this thing called the Tehran Nuclear Research Center
at the University of Tehran. So if you if you
look at the nuclear ambitions of the country of Iran,
they are literally begun by the United States of America.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
Kind of create a lot of problems that we ultimately
find inconvenient down the line, or you know, offer solutions
for the problems that we sort of created, which.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Guys, you tell me, but that this rings a lot
like that concept where we provide the power or the
means for something that is potentially being could be used
to wield power. We provide that so that there is
a reasoning at some point for intervention if necessary.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
You create the problem to solve the problem.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
I do wonder though, I mean It's easy to be
completely cynical about that, and I would probably say that
I am that it is all a strategic play like
you're saying, or is it just a matter of like
we provide the means when we think we have the
country under our thumb to a certain degree, or using
it in a way that will benefit ourselves. But then
when they get the wherewithal to do things that benefit
(16:32):
them more than they benefit us, then all of a
sudden it becomes a problem.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Well said, don't the corporate interests of the American Empire
are inseparable from the state interest of the American Empire?
And we can obviously, folks, you can check out our
many episodes regarding colonialism in the Forever War. We are
(16:57):
coming to you with hopefully good news on Monday, February ninth,
as we record, the protest have paused. But guys, we
have to talk about the domestic unrest in Iran unprecedented.
We've got some folks on the ground. Can we talk
a little bit about the most recent Iran Israel war.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
I think we're also talking largely about protests resulting from
just untenable domestic conditions.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
In terms of prices.
Speaker 4 (17:29):
Yeah, resources, the weakness of their currency, things that you know, again,
we're starting to feel over here as well in terms
of the things like affordability and grocery prices, and a
lot of the stuff that's being told to us is
actually totally fine, but then you know, to the individuals
on the ground that are feeling the pinch of those things,
it's absolutely not totally fine. And obviously we're not in
(17:52):
any way, shape or form to this degree, but we
are starting to see domestic unrest that could approach this
kind of thing down the line. So I would love to,
you know, not to put you find a point on
it or draw any false comparisons, but maybe just talk
a little bit about what some of those conditions are,
maybe what led to those conditions in a country that
seems so utterly Scrooge McDuck levels of swimming and cash.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
You know, well, you nailed it, Noel. So for everybody
tuning in at home, the most recent thing called the
Iran Israel War started June thirteenth. June twenty fourth, there
was an official ceasefire agreement. No one in the game
trust each other. The things you're talking about here, man,
(18:42):
The factors are stuff like sanctions, brutal sanctions. This is
total war stuff. It leads to economic decline. The value
of the currency is plummeting, unemployment reaches disaster levels. This
tension leads to what opposition forces we'll call a crisis
(19:03):
of legitimacy. And now we got massive protests that rocked
the nations, And interestingly, this is unusual for the government
of Iran. There were signs of deep descent within the
top brass themselves. Everybody is like the three spider man
pointing at each other meme. They're accusing each other being spies.
(19:27):
They're saying they're internal threats. These are signals of collapse
from within. Now. I don't know if we want to
get into the weeds here, but we do have a
couple of examples of government officials in Iran right now
fighting with each other, which is weird, again, unusual.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
Which I guess seems pretty standard practice for at least
the kind of government stuff that we deal with over here,
in terms of officials being on various sides of very
issues and beefing internally. So this maybe is a little
different than just your average run of the mill disagreements
over politics.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Oh my gosh, all right, so let's go to Salar Abnush,
member of the Parliamentary Security Commission. He demands a crackdown
on infiltrators and undesirable elements inside the government, and a
lot of people disagree with him. They say that the government,
(20:31):
like any other government in trouble, is scrambling for scapegoats, spies,
intelligence breaches, corporate shenanigans, and of course immigration Afghan immigrants
are being targeted actively by the government of.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Iran's so weird. I didn't I genuinely just still don't
understand the systems of government, you know, in a place
like Iran, that is in Islamic republic. But that is
only a term that is used to describe the system.
It's it's quite complicated there. There is, you know, a
form of legislature there, a parliament, right, yeah, it's they're stronger,
(21:14):
there are much stronger controls at the top, right, similar
to the way the executive powers in this country are
being strengthened and gripped onto like something probably inappropriate that
I would say, but it is just it is very
it's interesting to know that there are people who could
have dissenting voices. It's just there are perhaps different. Uh,
(21:36):
how would you say it? Guys? There are may be
different consequences for certain types of disagreement.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Yeah, that makes sense because of the because of the
more historically totalitarian nature of of of what the ruler
is ultimately able to do right, kind of unilaterally, right,
Is that what you mean?
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Yeah, the oka see an absolute majesty essentially one who
speaks for God, you know what I mean. The government
up until recently was a highly coordinated, unified propaganda machine.
So it's interesting to see folks like Mohammed Manan Rassi
(22:19):
respond to a political colleague and say, no, the immigration's
not the problem, it's us. We're the ones messing up, right,
And this is why global activists, humanitarian groups like Amnesty
International are condemning the response to recent unrest. Everyone outside
(22:44):
of the official government of Iran is saying that instead
of pushing for peaceful dialogue, the government is continually cracking down,
tightening domestic control, black out the internet, repressing the public,
executing people, isolating itself from the world. And also we
(23:08):
have to give a soft note here. Typically when you
read Western reports about Iran, you're going to run into
the old rule, which is if we like a government,
we call it a government. If we don't like a government,
we call it a regime.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Tell a weird to be talking about this, just living
in the United States right now, and just how strong
all of these things that we've been taught, as we
learn about geopolitics, as we learn about state craft and
all of these things and diplomatic relations, and then just
to see what's going on inside our own house while
there's stuff going on outside h the I think it's hypocrisy,
(23:54):
but it's not.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
I don't know how.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
It's just the state we're all in right now, with
where there are billionaires and oligarchs everywhere doing everything they
can to hang on to the power and money they've
got and to make more, and the rest of us
just kind of sit here and we're the grass, right.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I like water. I like to drink it, I like
to bathe in it. I think more people should have it.
I don't know why that became a hot take, but
that's what's happening, to your point, with the control of oligarchs,
the control of the global bullies. This is a very
vulnerable time for so many economies around the world, especially
(24:34):
the Iranian economy. The aftermath of the most recent conflict
with Israel has pushed the people and institutions alike to
a breaking point. So our question is what's happening now?
Our bigger question is what happens next. We're going to
pause for a word from our sponsor. Years it gets crazy,
(25:01):
all right.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Protests, dude, for sure, protests I did. I was just
thinking this whole, this concept in Iran Israel war is
so interesting to me. And maybe I am over inflating
the importance of the bunker buster attack that the US played,
the little surprise we're gonna attack your nuclear infrastructure Iran
thing that happened. Is that just considered the US stepping
(25:27):
in to help an ally Israel? Is that just how like?
It's so it's the Iran Israel war and the US
just did this little thing. The US isn't lumped in
there in any way as being.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Yeah, they got a couple ice gold Maduros. For sure.
The issue there is strange in that there was active bargaining,
so Iran would later launch attacks in response in retaliation,
and they gave the US and Israel heads up. They said, hey,
(26:01):
how do you feel we're gonna we got a response,
We're going to hit this one.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Well, it's just weird that it happened on the twenty second, right,
which is like right before what is supposedly the end
of that quick little war that happened, right, but there's
still crazy tensions occurring right now. It's just really confusing,
I think thinking about what the sides actually are, especially
given everything we've learned about the way the CIA would
(26:25):
go through and destabilize a nation, and how much of
that is at play when we look at Iran right now,
it's I think it's just hard to know as we
move on to this next section, what is real?
Speaker 3 (26:36):
What is real?
Speaker 2 (26:38):
What is real when it comes to people who are
attempting to or without their knowledge, disrupting and destabilizing a country?
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Right is uh? The recent wave of protest and the
resulting death toll, is it organic or was it orchestrated
by Western agents? That's a big deal. That's a big
question because there is unfortunate precedent for it. So beginning
in late December twenty twenty five, protesters were demonstrating across
(27:12):
multiple cities small towns in Iran. This is the largest
uprising since the Islamic Revolution of nineteen seventy nine. The
government did not reply with dialogue, by the way, or
regime if you like. Instead, we're looking at the green
lighting of live fire on the public, actually shooting the public,
(27:37):
not with rubber bullets like in Santiago during their constitutional referendum.
We're talking about massacres of innocent people resulting in the
deaths of tens of thousands. We're going to keep some
of our contacts anonymous for their safety, but what we
(27:59):
heard on the ground is that at this point everyone
in Iran is either related to or knows of someone
who died during these protests.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
That's intense. That's a tragic and horrible man. Again, just
from my perspective, guys, it's hard to know what's real. Like,
I don't have those contacts, so I genuinely don't know.
But it I worry that I'm being sold a story
that would make me really angry at the government of Iran,
(28:33):
and I know that it doesn't mean I would be
happy with or excited about the government Iran. I worry
that I'm being sold a story.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Right, just you know, a narrative.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
If we've yeah, if we've really got people that are
saying that then at least and if we can trust
those sources, then I'm then that makes sense to me.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Well, let's go back to what you were saying earlier, Noel.
The protests are beginning because of economic factors, right.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
Yeah, for sure. I mean normal things that people depend on,
like we were mentioning resources, water, price of goods, and
normal just existence type stuff. I mean, that is truly
what causes people to riot in the streets when they
feel threatened or unable to live a normal life as
they you know, deserve in a country that they love,
(29:21):
you know, where where they have generational.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Ties and cultural ties.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
Again, I don't mean to keep drawing any kind of
false equivalency between what's going on here and what's going
on there, but it does seem that it takes it
takes some real hardships, you know, for people to mobilize
in this way and put themselves in harm's way more
than just ideological issues.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Yeah, the economics will move the people. Right. So, initially,
the most recent protest demonstrations they start with kind of
a boycott in the Grand Bizarre. So these shopkeepers, these merchants,
they say the current currency is trash. Someone should fix it.
(30:09):
We're not going to open our doors, not today. We'll
stand outside and if you want us to tell you
why we're closed, we're happy to do so. The government
got super pissed. University students join in. The protests spread
to other major cities, metastasizes to smaller towns. It starts,
(30:34):
as Noel said, and a reaction to economic issues, then
it blossoms to a larger movement to ouse the current government.
The public has long distrusted the theocracy of Iran, accusing
them of criminal activity, of suppressing human rights, of corruption.
(30:56):
Fast forward January eighth, twenty not too long ago, as
we record one point five million protesters flooded road by
January ninth, five million protesters, again, innocent people as far
as we know, they were out across the nation. And
(31:19):
at this point, obviously the government is going to say,
maybe the CIA or Masad has a hand in this,
and we could not find We could find some evidence
of encouraging things, but we could not find evidence of
orchestrating things. Maybe you guys found something I don't know.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Well, it's just a reminder that we didn't know about
the Iran contra thing right as it was happening. Nobody did,
and nobody knew the US was training people and doing
all that stuff until it was finally outed, right, and
there were hearings about it, and then it was known.
So I think when stuff like this happens, if there
(32:03):
is any involvement with whatever am I six anybody, you're
not going to know until there's some official somewhere that
decides to either to classify something or holds it is
part of a Senate hearing somewhere, or you an assembly
somewhere and they finally state it.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Or the players are dead. And I like that you
mentioned m I.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Six well, and that is not to say that this
is definitely orchestrated, right, But it's also just a reminder
that you don't have to orchestrate one and a half
million people or five million people on the streets, right.
You don't have to be out there or organizing to
make something like this happen. You have to put ideas
in people's heads, and you have to be really effective
(32:45):
with those ideas, and then you can make it happen.
Just going back to the super Bowl, the two different
super Bowl halftime shows that happen this year, there are serious,
effective propaganda going on everywhere you look, and it's usually
to sell something, and you know, maybe in this case,
if there is something going on, it's to sell regime change.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
We also have to exercise empathy for the very real
people who have actually died, right and yeah, yeah, and
we know that we know that there are narrative wars
eternally to your point about the competing super Bowl thing,
like outside analysts are going to tell you that the
(33:31):
accusations from the Erodian officials or the Erodian government of
western orchestration, they may be a tactic to make the
military or the guard feel okay with killing innocent people, like, hey,
you're not really shooting or you're not really murdering a
(33:55):
conscientious objector or a protester. You are shooting the enemy
who has become a tool of the West. You know,
that's dangerous stuff.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
It's complicated stuff, because how does a singular ice agent
decide to kill Alex Preddy? You know, like, what how
did he view that human being in order to just
pull a trigger?
Speaker 3 (34:18):
And not how did you other them?
Speaker 4 (34:19):
Well, the question there too, is it a matter of
overt racism? Is it a matter of overt othering? And
looking at someone as a person that needs to be eliminated.
Is it just poor training, is it just a mix
of all of those things. I think it's probably that
for sure, not to derail this particular conversation, but you
bring that up, Matt. It is getting inside of the
(34:41):
mind of someone that does a thing like that. There
are multiple factors at play, and it is you do
have to wonder if it's institutional or if it's an
individual and their particular beliefs and the way they view people,
or if there is a larger, you know, kind of
philosophical thing at play.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
And we've talked about before. How do you convince a
human being to pick up a rifle and shoot it
directly at another human being? Right, that is just the
same as you, maybe has some different beliefs or whatever,
But how do you get them to do that? And
we learned about that, We learned about basic training for
any military and what that does. And there's brainwashing that
goes into that stuff to create enemies, right, we know
(35:23):
that governments across the world take great pains to create
enemies that you can then train your soldiers to view
as less than Yeah, I mean, that's a thing so
I just, you know, it does maybe wonder what goes
through the minds of somebody in Iran shooting people who
are it is you just you know, standing on the
(35:44):
other side of a fence or something.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, That's why I'm asking that
narrative aspect is the analysts are saying the current government
is trying to dehumanize the military and the guard and
make it easier for them to exercise live fire on protesters.
(36:07):
This is okay. So if there is a leader of
this domestic protest, you're going to have a hard time
finding one. But there is an icon, the most well
known Reza Pahlavi, the son of Iran's last shaw. This
guy is yeah, yep, see see the narrative war there.
(36:30):
So Pallavi has laid out some concrete request from the
protest movement toward the government. The chief thing is a
peaceful transition away from the current status quo and a
quote nationwide referendum to determine a future political system. Wow. Yeah,
(36:52):
government did not like it, Ayatola said, not a good vibe.
They just kept cracking down harder early this year. In fact,
we're recording again in twenty twenty six, the Orateian government
conducted a nationwide internet and telecom blackout. This does appear
(37:12):
to be an attempt to stop protesters from organizing.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Yeah, that's intense when that happens. Yeah, we've gained planned
on this show about what do we do when that
happens here? Right when the Internet just is out and
your phone can't get self service and it's.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
Like mad Max all of a sudden. This is like
it makes you realize how weak we are in terms
of like our dependence on this kind of stuff. And
I know that you guys are proponents of the go
bag and then you've got your boy scout history and stuff.
But man, the moment the power goes out or sell
service is on the blink, it really makes you feel
that thing in the pit of your stomach and makes
you realize how powerless we are. You know, how much
(37:52):
we rely on those types of comms and just creature comforts.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
That's why community and goodwill is paramount, right I mean which.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Yes, sorry, I just meaning and community being something that
is increasingly or decreasingly rather being fostered because of the Internet,
because of those very same things that we're talking about,
which could be a way to reach out and create community.
Instead seems to be something that creates this myopic bubble
type existence, at least here in the US. And I
(38:20):
know that social media has been responsible for the ability
in other countries to foment revolution and to create and
reach out to like minded folks, But I just I
don't know. It just feels like such a slippery slope,
and I'm just wondering how that plays into this particular
situation over there.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
I love that you're pointing that out. You're talking about
what we call the third space, a space that is
not work, is not home, is community, and does not
require you to pay to be there, you know, like
public parks, we still have them. For a second, knock
on wood. In this sense, we also have to note
(39:03):
a terrible prediction the right to peaceable assembly is endangered
in the United States. In Iran, quite recently, hospitals were
overwhelmed by the sheer number of wounded protesters. Often these
folks were suffering from grievous gunshot wounds. Thousands have been
(39:25):
murdered in the streets, thousands more have been arrested. We
don't know what has happened to a lot of the
people who were arrested, their families can't find out. And
luckily protesters have been able to figure out some workarounds
to communicate with the Western world or you know, with
(39:46):
sources outside of Iran. The situation just appears to be worsening.
I know, we're all read up on the current death
toll statistics. Looking like the West is saying it looks
like thirty thousand protesters to thirty six thousand, five hundred
(40:08):
protesters murdered. The local reports are saying forty plus, forty
thousand plus.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
It's unbelievable. It's it's mind blowing. It's mind blowing that
it isn't even as a bigger story. And I know
that it is a bigger story, and we've got a
whole lot of big domestic stories going on over here
that are distracting people from a lot of bigger things
elsewhere in the world. It's such a show. But that
is unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
It's unclean, for sure.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Okay, So let's say this exact thing was happening in
the US, and imagine that we are outside of the
US watching it happen, and there's thirty six thousand Americans
that have been killed by the let's say the federal government.
What is the way out of that situation or what
is how can you as a third party right outside
(40:57):
the situation, like, what.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Do you do?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
What would be done?
Speaker 3 (41:01):
What's the off ramp? You know, that's that's the euphemism
that we deploy in international talks. You know, it's it's
crazy still. I like that comparison. We're not saying we
are authorities. Obviously none of us have visited tron. We
hope to go one day. But it came down to
(41:23):
doctors and medical staff having to assemble an ad hoc
network to check in with each other and say, how
many people are dying due to these protests in your
hospital or in your clinic today. The doctors themselves cannot
put an exact number or the death toll. They do
(41:46):
say that all sources are underestimating stuff. The government is
continuing the crackdown. As our good friend of the show,
Robert Evans says, it could happen here. What a weird
time for NAT break. Yeah, uh, And we have returned
(42:15):
right now. Iran and the US have kicked off another
round of talks. Have you guys heard about this?
Speaker 2 (42:26):
Yeah, we stated today's Monday, February ninth. As we're recording,
we were, I think February sixth and fifth is when
there was quite a lot being said about you know,
those talks right that were going down where there was
a team of US folks and Iran folks getting together
in a neutral territory in Oman there to talk through
(42:49):
these things. You know, there's all kinds of positive messaging
coming from at least the US White House about how
great the talks went, but then you can see, you know,
details coming for us. It's like out of Al Jazeera,
the Guardian and a couple other Western sources talking about specifically
what some of the Iranian officials are saying, and just stating, hey,
(43:09):
we are not going to agree to any preconceived preconditions, right,
and we're not going to start the talk and say, okay,
you know, before we do anything, we agree to that.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
At the same time imposing the two big preconditions being
this conversation is only about the nuclear question, yes, and
there shall be no harassment, no bullying, given that the
West obviously is a notorious historical bully to the people
of Iran.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Oh yeah, well, and these are the first talk since
the bunker busters were dropped on Iran's nuclear program, which
may or may not have had devastating or no effect.
We have no idea, which is so funny. Again, like
both things, it's just out there. Who knows what actually happened.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
Two bad things can be true at the same time for.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
Sure, right, And there's no real Again we're in that place,
no real what's the best outcome? I guess no nuclear capabilities.
But then you're back to the oil money and who's
in control of the oil money? And that's every freaking
time in history. It's about the oil money and the resources, right,
(44:24):
and he wants to get their hands on them.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
Yeah, and the larger picture for sure, Like I think
we're all also thinking on the microcosmic scale, Like there
are people who are brilliant, right living in this country,
in the US and in Iran, but for our purposes
in Iran, and they have kids, and their currency is plummeting,
(44:47):
and it's variable beyond their control. You know, the power
is going out and then back on and then back out.
And it's not a storm. It's due to human creative
chaos targeted at innocent people. This is total war. And
I think, oh, yeah, I think the West has a
(45:08):
hand in it. I just want us to acknowledge that
there are innocent people. Man, they don't deserve this kind
of stuff, well for sure.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
So you've got these superpowers posturing against each other. You
look at the news we've all been following, where the
USS Abraham Lincoln and all of its glory is heading
straight over there towards Iran as a threat.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
We know this.
Speaker 4 (45:30):
It's a threat.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
It's hey, here's an aircraft carrier. We'll mess you up
if you don't do what we want you to do.
Remember that time we dropped that bunker Buster, which was
not that long ago.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
Remember that time you guys didn't give me a Nobel
Peace Prize, and so I said, I'll start more wars.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
But it's bigger than Donald Trump. Right, it's not just
one man. It is the weight of the United States
as a superpower attempting to impose its will just with
a threat. Right, So you better talk to us. Do
you see that aircraft career out there? It means business.
Now you're going to give up this stuff we want
you to give up. And Iran it's really cool, but
(46:09):
I don't know, like what side am I supposed to
believe in am I just supposed to see everything as
gray as it actually is. Because Iran is saying, hey,
you can't threaten us, right, you can't threaten us like that, which.
Speaker 4 (46:20):
Is their prerogative and I think the right move. But
we're also talking about a horrific act of you know,
barbaric in humanitarianism, if that's even a word like. I mean,
I think the way they're comporting themselves in terms of
standing up for their country and their rights to have
energy and dependence and to be able to you know,
all of that stuff, that's its own thing. But we're
(46:42):
also talking about a regime that is brutally murdering civilians,
which is not good.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
I mean, nailed it there, because it's it's all about how,
going back to the earlier comment, it's all about how
a conversation her right. So for instance, folks, if I
walk up to someone and I have a problem with them,
and I want to have a quote unquote dialogue, then
(47:12):
man's man approach is very different from if I walked
up to them and Noel Matt, I had you guys, Dylan,
you as well. I had you guys in black suits
and sunglasses standing behind me right at the door like
a aircraft carrier, and I said, hey, just want to
(47:33):
check in, man, how's that uranium? Is it rich? Is
it enriched? We should hang that's a threat, that's a
veiled threat. That's harassment, that's bullying. Both sides are doing this.
We're not saying there is any good person in the conversation.
We are saying there are good people being victimized, and
(47:57):
we don't know what's going to happen next. As a
matter of fact, let's check the news. What do you say,
What do we get? What are updates?
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Last thing I just want to say here on the
remembrance part, right, do you remember do you guys remember
in twenty fifteen when there was a deal that was
struck under the Obama administration, right specifically about all of
this stuff, and then the US just decided, oh, that's
not a thing.
Speaker 3 (48:22):
Anymore, which makes us untrustworthy because we blow with the wind. Right.
It's one of the main arguments against democracy actually is
if a leader exists for four years, what happens the
next year? What happens at year five? Right?
Speaker 4 (48:41):
You know, it's interesting speaking of Qatar, for example, one
thing that I think Ben, You and I and maybe
Matt you had some of these conversations as well. Is
one reason that folks in the US like to do
business with those countries, or with katar in particular, is
because there's not going to be a regime change, so
you can depend on that attitude remaining assistent like into
(49:02):
the future. I don't mean that's not necessarily what we're
talking about, but I just did think that was worth
mentioning because it came up a couple of times where we,
you know, had some dinners and we're mixing with some
folks from some big American companies, and that was kind
of the sentiments, you know, that it's a lot easier
to do business with a regime that is going to
have is going to stay the course longer than four years,
(49:23):
because here in the States the wind could completely shift
in terms of attitude towards different types of you know, policies.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
Cutter is also, to your point, no Cutter is also
becoming sort of the Switzerland of the Middle East, you know,
as in a place where parties that would usually be
Hamburger Helper level beefed up with each other will meet
and have what Corporate America calls a healthy discourse.
Speaker 4 (49:53):
Now an open dialogue?
Speaker 3 (49:54):
Right, yeah? Now are they going to be friends when
they get off the peninsula? Who knows? Hope springs eternal.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
I think that's one of the biggest takeaways from everything
we've been talking about this episode is how difficult it's
becoming to know how much of your perspective is in
that bubble that we always warn about, right that we
that we keep seeing the bubble developing around us just
from the stuff that we do online, but also like
in my case being in Qatar, I saw goodwill, I
(50:26):
saw kindness, I saw generosity, but how much of that
was you know, meant to be for the people who
went to Web Summit, you know.
Speaker 4 (50:34):
I described it, Matt was like I saw those things too,
and felt this very modern kind of city and and
like very focused on outward business relationships and all that stuff.
But I always sensed what I've described to people as
a vague, overarching, hovering fog of oppression just in the background,
you know what.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
I mean, A little bit, a little bit.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
And in all these things as we're discussing and to
think about them like it feels it just feels similar
to me not knowing when avail is being pulled over
for one reason or another by one party or another,
And at some point you just got to have to
feel a way about a thing and then move on
to the next thing or think away about a thing,
(51:17):
unless you're actually, let's say, in this case, actually in
Iran and wanting change and attempting to achieve change, and
to seeing people around you getting killed, if not getting
killed yourself.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
Contacts on the ground have confirmed the protests have paused
for now. Erodian authorities, most recently have arrested four more
people on charges of attempting to disrupt the country's political
and social order for the benefit of Israel and the
United States. And again, most importantly, I cannot overemphasize this,
(51:56):
Our thoughts are with the innocent people, the people of Ron.
So we want to thank all the activists, the protesters,
the doctors. Oh my god, you guys are the doctors.
Speaker 4 (52:08):
Oh, I can only imagine a quick question, is there
a similar narrative over there justifying this type of intense
lethal action, casting these people as paid instigators or as
in any way agitators or domestic terrorists, And as we're
hearing a lot of that kind of talk. And again,
I'm sorry to keep drawing those parallels, but it's hard
(52:28):
not to, especially seeing the beginnings of that type of
language being employed over here when people are just trying
to stand up for their rights, their civil rights, you know,
their rights to property, their rights to whatever it might be.
The safety one hundred percent and the shifting sands of
(52:48):
that kind of discourse being something that really really freaks
me out. So I haven't followed it as closely as
I know you have been. So is that how are
what is the line the party line they're using to
justify wholesale execution of these protesters.
Speaker 3 (53:03):
The party line currently is, to earlier point, it is
currently the idea that the protests are inorganic. It is
not due to domestic problems. It is due to Western interference.
So like oss company boys have come in and given
(53:26):
a bunch of people training. That's the idea. But then
also you'll see a lot of folks blaming immigration, specifically
from Afghanistan, and they're saying, oh, it's these Afghan immigrants, right,
They're causing problems. The ordinary Iranian citizen is being brainwashed
(53:48):
by these people. So when you shoot someone, they say
to their military to their version of ice. You are
not shooting and innocent person. You are shooting for an agitator.
It's something less surrounding it, something less American, something less
human than you. And that's a frightening thing. That's why
(54:11):
our thoughts are with the people. You know, if you
want more resources ways to keep abreast of the news,
we've we've done an okay job. I think of getting
passed or at least navigating and acknowledging the info war occurring.
If you have personal insight to the situation, you can
(54:32):
write to us.
Speaker 2 (54:33):
And one last thing before we talked about that, guys,
there was a quick detour that I saw in the
news and it was very interesting. I had just had
a conversation with a very interesting, very kind man who
grew up in Libya and had to move away after
you know, the assassination uprising against Godafi, and we had
(54:55):
a really great conversation about the good and bad of
that particular leader, and you know, at least his thoughts
on why that leader was taken out made me think
about our exploration explorations that you can find both on
YouTube and on our podcast feed wherever you listen to those.
But I just saw in the news that the son
(55:16):
of Gaddafi, Saif al Islam Gadaffi, was just killed, and
the information that's being put out officially through channels there
is very different. He was either you know, killed at
his home or he was killed in this other place,
and why was he killed? And there's just I wonder
if you guys had heard anything about that or had
better intel than I got.
Speaker 4 (55:37):
Now that's news to me, Matt, But it definitely seems
like some some somembs fishy there. For sure have to
do a little more digging myself. But that I'm sure
you were aware.
Speaker 3 (55:47):
Unfortunately, we can't confirm he has passed away. But to
your earlier point there, Matt, the narrative is still solidifying,
and for now that's the show. If you'd like more
resources or ways to keep abreast of the news and
help us navigate this narrative, or if you have personal
(56:10):
insight to the situation, please feel free to write to us.
Speaker 4 (56:14):
Yeah, you can reach us an ameriative ways, including on
your social media platform of choice at the handle Conspiracy
Stuff or Conspiracy Stuff Show. Depending. You can also give
us a phone call.
Speaker 2 (56:25):
Yes you can. Before you tell you that just a
couple of things to look up on your own. Go
ahead and check out the Brookings Institute and a little
thing titled sixty years of Atoms for Peace in Iran's
nuclear program. It's just a great primer on how that
whole thing functions because it's something that we didn't know
(56:46):
that much about before we went into this episode. And
also Forbes article a brief one hundred year history of
Iran West relationships that just goes it goes back into
detail about the manipulation that has occurred since World War
One and before. If you do want to call us,
our number is one eight three three st d WYTK.
(57:08):
Turn those letters into numbers, then give it a call
and leave us a voicemail. If you want to hear
that voicemail, you'll have to check out our podcast feed
for one of our listener mail episodes. If you'd like
to send us an email, you could do that too.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
We are Oh, that's one of the best ways to
find us, folks. No word limit, no guidelines, no rules,
Just send us your thoughts, send a random fact, get
one in return. I'd also like to recommend the excellent
work of Greg J. Stoker on Colonial Outcast. If you
(57:42):
are interested in hearing more about the Forever War, please
check out Greg's work. In the meantime, you can find
us any time you like out here in the Dark
Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (58:15):
Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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Noel Brown
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