August 19, 2026 • 68 mins
Landing a gig at the White House is -- surprise -- pretty competitive. And working in the kitchen is no exception. Over the past few centuries, the White House kitchen has evolved in step with the nation. Regardless of who's President, everybody's gotta eat, and White House chefs often form deep relationships and lifelong friendships with their clients. Yet as Ben, Matt and Noel discover in tonight's episode, this proximity to power may have a dark side. Not one, but two former White House chefs have drowned under mysterious circumstances, leading more and more people to ask: Is this a series of tragic coincidences... or is there a conspiracy afoot?
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello, and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Noah.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you
are you.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
You are here.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Guys.
I almost add the stuff they do not want you
to know, but that's going to mess up our cadence.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
It's too formal, man to formal.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
It's a little too formal.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
I think contractions only here on the pod, contractions only
and contracts Tonight is not necessarily a political episode, but
just so you know going in, this does hinge on
a specific piece of famous real estate in the United
States that is often involved with politics.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Technically, this is also a bit of a food episode.
Quick question as we're starting off, have either of you
guys ever visited the White House? Nolan and I were
talking about this a little off air.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I've just seen it from like, you know, through the
gates but I've never taken a tour. I was never invited.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Well, you went to that protest.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
I was at the protest, the Women's March thing for
a work related thing. And then yeah, it was crazy.
The day before was the day Trump was inaugurator the
first time. It was like everything was on fire and
they were like low flying hellic. I'm not joking. There
were like newspaper boxes on fire and people like like
swat people in riot gear and people throwing molotov cocktails
through windows.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
It was wild.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
And then the Women's March day was quite a contrast.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
What about you and that, Well, we've all been through
DC for part of our tour years and years ago.
I remember shooting a video of you ben right outside
of the White House on the other side of that
fence that is like shown all the time.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Where it is legal to film.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Mm hm oh yeah, that's public property. Totally totally on
the up and up there. I have been there personally.
I've not been to the White House. But it's not
just the White House we're talk about, right, We're talking
about several different palatial estates across the world.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Today.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
We're also going to be one of the main reasons
we're talking about this is because the conspiracyphere lit up
immediately after the events, will be discussing today with wild claims. Yeah,
some that are you know, with the Epstein files, with
the releases of those, they've become less insane perhaps, but
(02:52):
they're still like on that fringe level because we are
talking about perhaps eating humans with Yeah, yep.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
This is this is where we're talking about presidential favorite meals.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
This is technically a food episode, so all three of
us are working are correct, but do be worn, folks.
As my pal Matt said, this one gets dark. Let's
stroll over to the White House and figure out some
backgrounds here. This is our here of the facts part
is going to be a bunch of I don't know,
(03:28):
really cool stuff for nerds.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Let's find out what's for dinner.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Here are the facts, Okay, folks, As you can imagine,
whether or not you live in these United States, sixteen
hundred Pennsylvania Avenue is a big deal. It's where our
commander in chief technically lives during their time in office,
and it's an old building. They employ a lot of people.
(04:00):
Just quick stats, the White House has roughly four hundred
to five hundred direct staff is what they're called in
the White House Office, and then they have about ninety
residents and maintenance workers. So roughly like also, if you
count the building next door, the Executive Office of the President,
(04:23):
they have eighteen hundred total personnel. So right now the
closest numbers we have are from July of twenty twenty six.
The White House directly employs four hundred and eleven folks.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Well, I mean, obviously a lot of those folks that
are in and out of there are working in you know,
kind of governmental capacities, you know, are part of cabinet
and things like that. But we're also talking about the
kind of staff that say, like a palatial estate might
employ or dare we say a castle.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
You know, in a state, a manor. That's what it is.
Right Typically, when we imagine someone saying, oh, hey, babe,
I work at the White House, we might think of
secret service or high level politicians, cabinet members, kitchen cabinet
joke on the way, and of course, you know, the
president of the United States. But no, you make such
(05:18):
a wonderful point. The reality for a lot of the
folks here is way less glamorous because this is a big, palatial,
opulent building. It is also very old. So even when
there is not construction on say a ballroom slash.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Bunker right, bunker b ballam bunker right.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Even even when there's not construction like that, sixteen hundred,
Pennsylvania needs a pretty sizable active team of people doing
all the stuff that never hits the news. Who cleans
those roups, right, who's our hvac guy, who mows the
law and et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Groundskeepers. I mean, like you know, landscaping, the rose garden,
all that kind of stuff. They got to keep it
looking nice. Now it's a little different these days, but
that's the kind of stuff we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
It reminds me a lot of many of the staff
that were employed by the Piedmont Driving Club who were
meant to not even really be seen. It says, though
you are invisible, you move through these huge ballrooms and
you know, massive rooms underground areas for employees only where
you can get from one place to another without the
(06:31):
members seeing you, or in this case, the upper staff
of the White House doing those things like like you said,
tending to the outside, the inside, the roof, literally everything
including the kitchens.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
You know, it's weird too. That's a great point, Matt
about Piedmont Driving Club. It's weird too for us as
Americans to realize how Downton Abbey upstairs, downstairs divided the
White House actually is. And these folks are the beating
heart of this estate, of this real estate. They are
(07:03):
an integral piece of the household. And you know, I
was talking with somebody who does background checks earlier for
an unrelated thing, and just imagine, let us all for
a second, how bad it would look to the world
if the White House had a crappy yard. I don't
want to sound too much like an old man, but
(07:25):
you know, if you saw that their grass was bad
and they had, you know, an old Chevy up on
some cinder blocks, well.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
As a fellow old man, you do get to a
point where your lawn reflects.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Your you know who you are, just like the menu
that you might order. Segue foreshadowing. No matter, this is
cool because it reminds us, and hopefully reminds you folks,
of our conversations about those food service workers at the Pentagon, right,
and the people who take out the trash at the Pentagon,
(08:01):
or do the HVAC at the Pentagon. They have to
pass a background check that goes up the wazoo. They
obviously have to have drug tests, they have to have
an established record of excellence within their fields. And to
be clear, yeah, a lot of the folks that we're
talking about in the White House here are going to
(08:23):
be contractors, which means that they have a private company
that has complied with Uncle Sam's security requirements and they
don't have, you know, compartmentalized or top secret clearance. But
you might be surprised, folks by how many people have
some version of a secrecy clearance just because of the
(08:46):
access to the places that they are visiting in their
day to day work. Last thing, most recently, political loyalty
to the administration became part of the vet process. Back
in the day, they didn't care who you were when
you were Moe in the yard.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Yeah, you said, things are all different these days. It's
important to point out too, which you might already be thinking,
is that you know, these larger events, visiting dignitaries, state
dinners and stuff like that, they do bring in outside
help for that. Oftentimes they'll be like a guest chef
that they invite to co design and kind of head
(09:26):
up the creation of the meal. But all the cooking
still does happen in the White House kitchens, but the
day to day meals are done by the executive residents
culinary team, which includes a chef, pastry chef, and of
course the associated staff.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Yeah. Yeah, the Sioux chefs. Shout out to them, We're
going to spend some time with one in particular. And guys,
this might get us in a little bit of hot
or very cold water. I have to say. The political
loyalty point. I know it's weaponized today, but it kind
(10:01):
of makes sense historically. If you are an American president,
would you purposely hire an avowed communist who wanted to
overthrow the United States? Because if you did, you would
grant them a deep level of access to one of
the most powerful political organizations on the planet. So maybe
(10:21):
there should be something like maybe not who did you
vote for, but maybe something akin to are you okay
with the United States existing? Well?
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Guys, I mean I go back to the whole palace
intrigue of it all. I mean, what's more dangerous than
somebody on the cooking staff who might have it out
for the king or the president? You know, and it
makes me think of like a court tasters, you know,
taking food tasters and all of that. And Ben, I
don't know if this came up in your research, but
(10:53):
I did not realize that the dining and the culinary
services is actually handled by the US Navy.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah, yep, which.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Is something called white house mess Yeah, it's a lot
of fun.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
You got to earn your way up because you've got
your housekeepers vetted, you have your landscapers vet it to
some degree. We could talk about that later. It might
be outside of the scope of this or two in
the weeds. These folks are not politicians themselves. They are
not elected. They do have, to your point, Noal, an
intimate inside look at some of the most sensitive conversations.
(11:31):
We could imagine. One of the most coveted roles in
this storied institution is the role of the executive chef.
So if you work in food service, fellow conspiracy realist,
you are going to enjoy this one or send us
emails to set us straight.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
Yeah, I gotta wonder how somebody pursuing the culinary art
sets their sites on that particular gig.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Well, first, they didn't have a choice. The very first
president cook for the very first president was a man
known as Hercules who was enslaved by George Washington, and
it served as the first presidential cook until he escaped
slavery in seventeen ninety seven on George Washington's birthday. So
(12:21):
this has been around for a while. I think was
up until about eighteen hundred, the White House kitchen forced
enslaved people to cook for the ruling class.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Talk about a strange choice, just considering the founding documents
and then to have in the primary residence of the
person that's running this new place based upon these new
documents that state pretty clearly what they feel like. Every
human being, every man is created equally, and yet you
have enslaved human beings to cook your food to continue
(12:54):
your life. Going on and again talking about that trust,
enslaving some one and then you know, not thinking they
might want to hurt you. That's a that's a crazy
thing to do.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Well, it's part and parcel with the whole white supremacist
angle of it. All They look at these folks is
inherently inferior genetically, of course, but I imagine that intellect
would go into that and they would be like, well, no,
we are their masters, and they are like, you know, good,
good pets that would never ever do anything to harm
their masters. It's just this like absolute delusional way of
(13:27):
looking at human beings.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Benevolent, condescending, demi gods is how they see it. Do
also check out a show or an episode of our
related sister show Francis Scott Key, the guy who wrote
the Star Spangled Banner, also a slave owner and kind
of a jerk.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Recently, I just got back from a personal trip to
the UK and I went to this place called the
Royal Pavilion in Brighton and Hove I think, I think
it's maybe just Brighton, and it is this taj Mahal
inspired giant palace that was made for the various King
George's or the Prince George and King George the Fourth.
(14:09):
It was it was like Prince of Wales, whatever George
then he got sick and in the head and couldn't
govern or whatever whatever you do as king. So then
George the third, George the Fourth came in. Anyway, it's
this whole thing. But they had this massive ballroom right
where they would put on these feasts and you got
(14:32):
to go into the kitchen where these feasts are prepared,
and there are you just learn about the human beings
that worked so hard, tirelessly to put out these meals
that were just when you think about those medieval feasts, guys,
and you see them depicted on screen, the real menu
that you got to see when you walk into this
(14:53):
this place from eighteen seventeen. It was like, I couldn't
even tell you how dozens of courses it was. And
each course had like three or five different things where
they would just bring out, uh, what do they say,
the head of a great sturgeon in champagne, pigeons in crayfish, butter.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Yes, but just beasts inside of other, beasts inside of other.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Well, it takes you back to Marie Antoinette and some
of that depiction just of what it's like to have
a simple meal. But this is not a simple meal
obviously that we're describing, but just to have lunch one
day in your palace, what does that look like? And
what does it take to prepare that?
Speaker 4 (15:35):
What does it take? Not to get too political about it,
but like I mean to do that in the face
of folks around you that you're ruling over, starving or
not able to afford to you.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Know, right, let me cake check out our upcoming strange
news conversation about grocery prices. We we know the White
House has the American expeariman has always had this weird
thing about how to handle its one percent? Right, it's
(16:07):
upper crust? Are we a nation ruled by a small
majority of aristocrats? Technically that is correct. Technically that is correct.
I know a lot of people don't love it when
we point that out, but it is beat me here, Dylan.
It's weird and it's correct. So the White House has
(16:29):
a what they call a permanent full time culinary staff
of five to six chefs. So this will be like
your executive chef. This will be your Sioux chefs, those folks,
by the way, because of some earlier conversations in Congress,
when those folks cook for the first family, the president,
the spouse, the ghettoes, whatever that comes out of the
(16:53):
president's pocket technically, but when you get to those big
state dinners like you're describing Noll, the large events, Oh
some guy from Russia's showing up, or oh this is
the big pubab insert country here, then they call in
a part time staff of twenty to twenty five assistant chefs,
(17:15):
food runners, waiters, stewards, butler's, etc. Those folks all get
overseen by the position of executive chef. And that chef
position is pretty cool, interestingly enough, because it remains stable
often throughout changes in administration, like successive presidents who hate
(17:40):
each other will often still stick with the same chef
and just say, you know, you seem cool. I like
real cheese, and the chef says yes, mister President. So
who is our first, aside from Hercules, who has been
ignored in history, who is our first official executive chef
(18:01):
of the modern White House?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
There've always been chefs, as they were saying, in the
White House, and chefs and many a cook, many a
sue serving that facility right, and as the White House
has changed over the years. But the title executive chef,
the position executive chef at the White House was started
by Jacqueline Kennedy and that was in nineteen sixty one. Guys,
(18:25):
you might have to check me on that. I think
it was sixty one where Rene Verdn, which who was
a French chef. He was well known, but he wasn't
like a celebrity chef does that make sense, guys. Yeah,
we don't often see a celebrity chef filling the role
(18:46):
of executive chef for the White House. So like in
Anthony Bardane showing up, Hey, guess what, I'm the chef now.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Well, but someone like that might be brought on for
a special engagement.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yes, but then the White House executive chef since nineteen
sixty one has taken on a bit of celebrity status
because now they're in interviews all the time. There's this
excitement about oh, what is the First family eating these days?
And all all of that stuff, right with a bit
of the royalty treatment happening. Huh in a little bit
(19:18):
maybe exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, people are starving throughout the world. But what do
the Bush twins eat? Do they really need to know
the calories for every meal? That's crazy. We'll be back
after a brief break for the news in the Middle East.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Oh God, sponsoring us.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
It's very bread. It's just so, it's so it's isolated.
And again we're not disparaging the chefs they're doing. No,
they're doing a very good job.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
They do an incredible thing. And you know, cooking food
is an art and it is science and there are
specific chefs who have made it so right so that
we think about cooking as an art and a science
rather than just getting sustenance.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
For a meal.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
And just to take it back to the pavilion for
one second, the chef there that would cook or that
was known to cook there a lot of the time
was Marie Antoine Karem, who was arguably the first celebrity
chef back in the eighteen hundreds. And this is a
person that was was known for these those crazy feasts
(20:22):
we were talking about, but also as promoting food as
art and science right on.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
And also Julia Childs worked as a spy. We're gonna
that is true, and this is this is a this
we're planting seeds right, you know what I mean. We're
getting our mission place. So we also need you to know,
folks that across the pond. Over in the United States,
(20:48):
the most recent official executive chef is a tremendously inspiring
person named Christeta Comerford. This chef served from two thousand
and five to two thousand and twenty four. Her story
is phenomenal. Native of the Philippines, becomes an assistant chef
(21:10):
after getting after getting US citizenship, in nineteen ninety five
under the Clintons, works her way up under the W.
Bush presidency speaking of aristocracy in two thousand and five,
and that time window is so interesting because that means
she was cooking for five separate presidents. It's like, especially
(21:35):
in these divided times, it is extraordinary to realize these
folks definitely don't agree on politics, but apparently good food
is the one bipartisan issue they can all get behind.
So congrats to that chef. Also, first woman, first person
(21:55):
of color to achieve this rarefied position.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
I mean, these days, the no of anybody keeping a
job from one administration to the next is pretty much
a non starter.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
It's a good point. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Well, but it is crazy that she gets that actlyte
and it is great that she does. But considering all
of the enslaved human beings of color who worked in
that position essentially right, So it is that weird thing
where we have to we create the specialized position of
executive chef. And now that is a thing versus the
(22:30):
human beings who actually did the thing long long ago,
but did it against their will.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah, which is why I'm so happy we got the
chance to shout out hercules at the very beginning right now,
there is no official executive chef at the White House,
which might surprise people because that seems like something the
current regime would want. Right Instead, there is a former
(22:55):
assistant of comer Ford named Tommy Kurpreditt krad It. He
is the current acting executive chef, and hey, man, if
you're watching this, good luck, chef. We hope they make
you official.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Keep those fryars hot.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Gosh, keep those burgers ready right at any time of
day or night. Obviously, any work in any kitchen on
a professional level is going to be stressful. Yet the
steaks or the steaks thank you for the spelling jo yes,
spelling joke, they're a whole other level. Right when your
(23:33):
regular diners are some of the most powerful and arguably
some of the most dangerous people on the planet. You know,
there's a legendary level of service here. There's also an
entirely different dark side to cooking at the White House
because Matt No, like we're saying, there are tons of
(23:54):
documentaries and interviews about the story history of the White
House Kitchen. Can watch all these things, these investigations into
how the sausage is literally made and so on all
the livelong day. But there is a strange pattern a
lot of people miss, which is this White House chefs
(24:18):
it seems have been drowning.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
You mean like in work, you mean like they's got
so much going on that they're just they can't keep
their head above water.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Keep their head above water. No, that seems to be
the problem.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
We're talking literally, But I'm sorry, I have to just
drop this in the We're talking about the dark side
of the spoon.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
There we go. Here's where it gets crazy. Fellow conspiracy realist,
It is true, not once, but twice high profile former
White House chefs have passed away in drowning incidents. One
of these was an executive chef. Another one was a
(25:00):
Sioux chef who later went on to work as a
personal chef for the Obama administration. So, who wants to
introduce us to Walt?
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Yes, indeed, Walter Shibe Sheeb, I'm gonna go with shi.
It was born on May the third of nineteen fifty four,
Walter Stanley Shibe the third. He cut his teeth in
DC's Capital Hilton, A bit of a fancy Hilton's back
in those days. If they had a little more Cachet.
From there, he worked at the Boca rattan overre in
(25:31):
Boca Resort for four years, and he traveled back to
Washington worked briefly at the Mayflower Hotel. It's pretty storied.
After the Mayflower, he became the executive chef at the
Greenbrier in West Virginia.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Boss Greenbrier Hotel, what's special about that?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
What is special about that? Thanks to our pal Garrett M. Graff,
the author of Raven Rock, the story of the US
government's secret land to save itself while the rest of
us die is What's secret about this is that Greenbrier
had a longstanding doomsday bunker for America's most influential politicians.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
I would love to talk more about the intersection between
hospitality and doom's day protection.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Mm.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
You know, I mean we're talking about that ballroom earlier,
which is, you know, definitely aligned with that. So it
does kind of make you think after the typical addition
process for that gig. And I was sort of being
flip earlier about who would target that specific gig, you know,
who someone who's dedicated their life to culinary pursuits. Well,
it turns out thousands would hope to have that job.
(26:41):
So that makes perfect sense because to your point, Matt,
this is someone that does inevitably take on a certain
type of celebrity status unto themselves in the culinary world.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
That's a proximity to power in general.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
I think, oh, sure, sure, So thousands apply, only a
few are invited for an audition. Shibe became the White
House executive chef in nineteen ninety four, and he would
hold onto that position again to our earlier point, maybe
not as common anymore until two thousand and five.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Yeah, this is fascinating because if you are a fan
of history, if you are a fan of diplomacy and
pulinary forensics, we could almost call it, you will be
just baffled by the anecdotes of pulinary drama that occur constantly.
So no matter who you voted for, what you need
(27:35):
to know is that the president you like or hate
routinely conspires with the White House kitchen staff to get
snacks when they think they can get away with it
and get away from their keepers. They're entourage their family.
Even Bill Clinton was reportedly infamous for this conspiracy because
(27:59):
every time his wife Hillary Clinton was away from the grounds,
he would come up to the chef and be like, uh,
can I get a twenty four ounce porterhouse? Let me think,
and we'll just keep this between us.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
And just to walk back what I said earlier. And
I think this speaks to your point, Ben about how
this gig is somewhat a political the you had mentioned
the previous executive chef, Christeta Comerford had that gig for
twenty one years and only just recently retired. And we
don't have, I believe, a new official executive chef. So
that person was there through Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yes. Yeah, And the food of the White House is
as much of a statement as it is sustenance. It's
politicized as anything else. Let us not forget the Great
Poupon scandal, right because everybody has to eat, so you
want to feel that universal connection. Whatever the First Family
consumes often becomes, for better or worse, a statement about
(29:01):
the country. There was a past chef who balked at this.
I don't know how much we all read about this,
but I was interested in the story of Hans Raffert,
who notably ended up well. He was asked by the
Clintons to cook low fat American cuisine and it was
a bridge too far for his soul as a chef,
(29:24):
right as an artist. And he balked at this and
he ended up technically residing. But really they fired him
because a man's got avo code.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Well, he's a French, he's a he's a German human,
but he is a French chef, right, so as cuisine
is French, and what do you use in French cuisine
more than anything fat?
Speaker 3 (29:49):
I mean so, so it's that's an interesting note because
there are people who put their principles over celebrity, your prestige, right,
And our guy Walter is very good at his job.
He can roll with the punches. Eventually, even he was
let go due to differences in preference under the Bush administration.
(30:15):
There's there's a little piece of e femera you can
catch in the news from back in the day where
an anonymous White House staffer says there was tension. You know,
the chef knew that the Bushes didn't like scallops, and
I think he kept serving him scallops on purpose.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
That would be a move, wouldn't it.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
I love it. But he stays in the public eye,
right because, like we're saying, once you attain this rarefied air,
wherever you go, your fortune is made right as long
as you leave in an amicable way. He writes a memoir,
He co writes a memoir. He becomes a lecturer consultant,
(30:56):
so he goes to people who are doing fancy state
dinners and said stuff like, here's where the fork for
the salad goes? I don't know. And then he also
he al on.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
The left, that's the little it's a little fork.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Rt Right, there's a old Larry Day to think about this. Yeah. Yeah.
And he founds the corporation to handle his his legal
dealings in this regard. And he also he's known to
be a pretty great orator because of his anecdotes about
what world leaders he Yeah, I'd be interested in.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
That, Yeah, exactly, because ultimately you've got knowledge now, and
you're imparting that knowledge through things like memoirs, through books,
through speaking engagement things like that.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
Well, you know, it would also give you a little
bit of insight into like the health of an individual,
wouldn't it long long term?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Wise?
Speaker 4 (31:43):
And they how likely they are to live for a
long time or not?
Speaker 3 (31:46):
How many cheeseburgers per day?
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, exactly how many hot dogs have you had today
this morning?
Speaker 3 (31:53):
How many once like for coffee or we talk it
like because the day starts at the offee.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
It's like chopped up hot dogs.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Have you heard a lot of this chatter? I don't
know if it's coming from the it's probably coming what's
coming from some staff for sure. About how apparently Trump
has like used like empty ice cream cartons and burger wrappers.
It's always like litter all over his bedchambers.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Oh god boy, No, I haven't heard about that.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Yeah, that's the kind of information we're talking about.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Tip your housekeeper, whether you're at a hotel or what Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Yes, or just at your house if it's a palse and.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
If you're your housekeeper, tip yourself.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Yes, be good to yourself at the very least. Yeah,
you're doing a great job.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
We do. Really, what's going on?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
So let's talk about an unspoken thing a little bit
because of the glorification a bit of the title of
executive chef. An executive chef once you reach that level
and you're creating a menu and you are showing other
chefs how to prepare your menu or your style or
(32:57):
the exact nature even a restarred Michelin chef. Well, actually
not so much that. I don't know that. I think
there are levels to this whole thing. But if you
become an executive chef, often you are not the one
doing the cooking anymore. You are going places, you're having meetings,
You're dealing with the business side. Hence the term executive.
There you were maybe starting restaurants, you're beginning a franchise,
(33:21):
maybe you are traveling a lot. The executive chef title
is very different than a Sioux chef or someone who's
doing me some implas all day long and cutting vegetables.
The the executive chef is this, I don't know how
to put it, guys, it's it's not all about cookery anymore.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
You're the ambassador of the kitchen, is the way I
would put it. You're the You're the You're definitely the
administrative head, right you, Yeah, on that part of the downstairs.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Yes, and that that therein lies. I think why it's
such a sought after position because working in a kitchen
is so labor intensive and hard and sweaty and can
just be god awful and wonderful at the same time. Right,
doesn't mean it's all terrible, but it's hard to ask work.
So I'm imagining just this thing that might be chased
(34:17):
after once you get it, once you've done it. I
wonder what an executive chef of the White House does
when they're finished.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Right right? Where do you go next after you've beaten
the video game? You've beaten the final level?
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Well, it's the end games, and some games they ain't
got it right, like Skyrim, which is awesome.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Everybody should play it. So that's a bit of an aside,
but it's it's a great point because when we're when
we're talking about this level your executive chef, if you
go to the world's best restaurants of the past, like
Albouye or Noma, what you see is those guys are
(34:58):
almost Frank Lloyd Wright level cult worshiped, right, and they
come in and they say, well, you pitch me this dish,
and you let me taste it and see if it's
worthy for service. So are there are a lot more
like generals than they are like infantry is a good
(35:20):
way to think about it. That's why they call it
a brigade. That's exactly why they call it a brigade.
No because the French concept of how a kitchen should
be run and how the labor should be divided does
come from military experience. So this guy, our guy, Walt
chef Wald, he travels widely. He's doing quite well. He's
(35:44):
not too old, you know, he's late fifties in this
time of his life, getting up to just north of sixty.
And he doesn't just visit almost every United States. He
makes it too, one hundred and fifty four countries between
two thousand and seven and twenty fifteen. His passport looked
(36:10):
it looked like a Russian prisoner. It was that. Yeah,
it looked like VORs on that. And he ends up
going to He has personal trials and travails, of course.
He ends up moving to New Mexico, to Taos, New Mexico.
He has a girlfriend, he has a good family life.
(36:30):
He's set to go. He goes on a hike in
twenty fifteen, and on June thirteenth of that year, he
is reported missing because he doesn't return from this hike.
So investigators track his cell phone as best they can.
They say, okay, this cell phone is in a nearby
(36:52):
mountain in Taos, and a few days later, on June
twenty First, they discover the remains of the former executive
chef of the White House about one point seven miles
from the base of the hiking trail.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yeah, about thirty yards away from a hiking trail. And
you can read a lot about this specific trail that
he was hiking down. What it looked like, you know,
the elevation change and all that kind of stuff. Was
it uphill, was a downhill? Was it like? How much
water was there? Because all of these things come into play,
especially when you realize that it appears this man had drowned,
(37:31):
or at least according to the official story.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Yeah, yeah, because the autopsy results indicated some questions and
some conclusions. First, the authority said there's no side of
foul play. But keep in mind what Matt just said, folks.
He the autopsy said he was dead as a result
of accidental drowning. However, the ravine where he was found,
(37:58):
the water was very cold. It preserved his cadaver in
a way that made it impossible to know exactly when
he died. So when you hear accidental drowning, for a
lot of more cynical people in the crowd, you end
up asking how accidental is an accident, to be fair,
This area where the chef is hiking is well known
(38:22):
for flash floods, and on the day he was reported missing,
a ton of thunderstorms had rolled through. And if you're
familiar with this part of the United States, or with
New Mexico and this part of New Mexico specifically, you
know that when those floods happened, they happen quickly. Flash
flood is not an ironic term at all. The water
(38:46):
is not there and then a lot of it suddenly
appears as if it teleported.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeah, it's called the Yurbucanyan trail head. It's a four
mile trail and it follows basically the base of a
canyon and then it travels up thirty seven hundred feet.
So imagine a lot of rain coming down thirty seven
hundred feet towards you. If you're at the bottom of that,
it could be really treacherous, or if you're caught in
that incline as a bunch of water and debris and
(39:15):
mud and all that stuff is heading towards you. So
there is a potential for absolutely natural thing that occurred,
a tragedy in the wrong place at the wrong time
it this one, I would just say, doesn't it feels
like it could be that, right, just an accident.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Right, because the wild is the wild, and even an
experienced hiker may be in a situation where your environment
changes so quickly you can't find purchase as you're scrambling
for that elevation. We also have to know, as as
you'll recall astute conspiracy realist, people die from hiking all
(39:52):
the time in the United States every year, so much
so the federal government still does not keep a data
of how many people go missing in national parks. So
this is something to that point that absolutely could happen
and the news could fade from the headlines, except that
(40:13):
just a few years later, in twenty twenty three, another
tragedy struck and people started seeing connections between these two
tragedies and they started looking at Chef Walter's death in
a new light. So now we introduce Tafari Campbell. TAFARII
(40:39):
Campbell is a former White House Sioux chef, which is
kind of like a second in command, you know, to
our earlier point about an executive chef, this this guy,
this chef is serving while the Barack Obama administration is
in the White House, and the First Family became very
(41:00):
close to Chef Campbell during their time there. They befriend him,
They know his family and his kids as well. They say,
when they're leaving the White House, they say, hey, do
you want to just come work for us because you're
you're awesome. We like hanging out with you. And he agrees.
So Campbell often works at an estate on Martha's Vineyard
(41:25):
in Massachusetts owned by the Obama family. It's called Katama.
I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. Ka T A m A.
This guy's young.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Is the Katama because they the Obama family, by the way,
much like Royalty, has owned or lived in a couple
of different estates there on Martha's Vineyards. Yes, the one
I'm looking at, the one that's dealing with this incident
is I think it's seventy nine Turkey Land Cove Road
or something right by the pond. Yeah, between slowco in
(42:00):
Turkey Land Cove out there on Egerton Great Pond.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
And it is a friggin' to talk about a castle
for sure.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Yeah, because you know, you never really stop being president.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Isn't it isn't that crazy? Yeah, I don't know why
I had some kind of illusions about the the Obama
family or something. I was like, Oh, they're not quite
as like they're not. They're they're up there, but they're
not like the Bush family.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
You thought they about a duplex, dude, But no.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
But we've talked about the Bush family and the fortunes
that were made their way before the presidency, and you
know how much money flowed around that family. Yeah, the
Obama family didn't have that. If you go back in
the history at least the available history of like where
Barack Obama lived wait far or before you know, becoming
governor or president or any of that stuff, and the
(42:54):
humbleness of those things. Then you look at this place
on Martha's Vineyard, which is like what, that's the the
royal grounds of the Americas. Yeah, martha Zenyards, one of
two right out there on the coast of Boston. It
just it didn't I didn't imagine this is where they
would be hanging out. I don't know what.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
It's twenty nine acres folks right on Awata as Massachusetts
would say. And to be clear that when I say Katama,
that's the section of Edgar Town that they're living in.
Toward the address that you're talking about, right, So.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
It's it's it's six ninety two square feet of house.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
It's a lot of house. Do you want more house?
Because we have more house. We have house on special.
So the the thing is this guy Campbell, this chef
is very talented. He has made a great impression on
the actual President of the United States. And at this
time he is about forty five years old. Right, So
(44:00):
done his time in the White House. He is now
a personal chef to one of the most powerful, most
dangerous people on the planet. He could have kept this
job for decades or until he decided to retire. Unfortunately,
you know, he could have just spent all his time
in the recreational swimming pools that he loved. Unfortunately this
(44:21):
was not to be the case.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
He did love the recreational swimming pools, right.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
He's an accomplished swimmer, right, yeah, yeah, he is.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Think about it. Okay, let's keep going.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Yeah, let's go to July twenty fourth. It's twenty twenty
three local authorities and again this very posh area of
the United States. They get a nine to one one call.
It's around seven forty six pm and it's from a
person who is paddle boarding on that pond we mentioned earlier,
(44:52):
and he says, another paddle boarder has gone into the water.
He's a dude. I saw him dip down. He was
struggling to stay on the surface. He went back under
the water again and he has not returned to the surface,
and I can provide more details. We need help, We
(45:14):
need help. A search begins. There are multiple agencies in
the area. They're lending a hand. Eventually, an outfit called
the Massachusetts Environmental Police locates a body. They do this
using what we call a side scan sonar. So they're
floating around in a boat and they're waiting for a
(45:36):
ping and then the divers come in from the State
Police and they find a body. It's about one hundred
feet from shore at a depth of only eight feet.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Strong swimmer experience, Well, now that is where the body
is recovered. That doesn't mean that's the human became a body.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Right, Yeah, But I'm with Noel here eight feet.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
I'm also with you, guys. I'm just trying to remain
fair objective.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Yeah. So they find they find this body. At first,
they don't know it's Campbell, but it doesn't take long
to connect the dots and they are able to verify
these are the remains of Campbell. So the police issue
a statement and a spokesperson with the outfit called the
Massachusetts Executive Office of Public Safety and Security says autopsy
(46:36):
has confirmed the cause of death. It is accidental drowning.
And then, for the record, before we get deeper here,
the Obama family, so far as we know, was not
at the estate during this.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Time, but it is right off of the estate.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
It's right there, and there was a second paddle border.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Yeah you know, I heard nine to one to one
audio that was allegedly a part of this, and it
sounded like a security team member alerting other security team members,
but you know, speaking directly to the emergency services.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Yeah, you know that.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Kind of speak that is very straight to the point.
Here's what's happening. It's a male blah blah blah on
this blah blah blah, blah blah blah. That's all you
need to know.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
And then oh my god, there's no holy craps, No,
none of that. Very contained, very clipped, very terse, very direct.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Which is two things right. That is how someone who
is trained to do that acts when you're in a
crisis mode to be calm and just get the information
across that you need. But it's also maybe the way
someone would act if they had just drowned. Somebody just
putting it out there.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
We're just putting it out there because we have we
have I hope not purposely drowned anyone on this show.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Well, I mean, I guess no, But what I mean
is we have heard how about this personally? Guys, I
have listened to the audio of the Zodiac killer or
the alleged Zodiac killer making the phone calls, you know
where it just says some things to you about what
I just did, and it reminded me of that.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
Yeah, I'd add to that in some personal experience. A
lot of people deal with shock in very different ways. So,
for example, you might hear someone sounding very collected because
their shock is kicking in right, and their survival mechanisms
(48:32):
or maybe their muscle memory are going to keep them
going until their mind tells them it's okay to collapse, right,
So that could be part of it too, But this
was not. It did not sound like it's cool. We
don't want to read too many tea leaves. We do
have to admit again, just like with hiking in the
(48:54):
United States, Sadly, a significant number of people accidentally dropt
in this country every single year. One of the most
famous examples in our neck of the Global Woods is
Lake Laneer, which is home to several drownings every year.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Yeah, a lot of bad stuff goes down there. A
lot of it is drinking and driving boats.
Speaker 3 (49:18):
Though, right, yeah, don't that's a huge part.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
You can do that.
Speaker 3 (49:20):
Don't think a boat is still a car, guys, it's
still a motor vehicle. Don't drink and drive a boat
or a vote. Check out our earlier episode on what
was it called the cooping.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
Cooping is where you get no, you get people drunk
and then you unleash them on the poles, right yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
Yeah, don't do that one either, But well no.
Speaker 4 (49:42):
Way, isn't it like you, Yeah, you forced them to
vote for your guy, yes, yeah, yeah, by getting them
intoxicated and potentially even like physically.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
Assaulting them, yeah, and putting them in disguises. That was
a wild ride. It's again, it's a tragedy because it
is a tragedy compound given Tafari Campbell's passed as a
White House chef, and given his close association with a
former first family, as well as the fact that a
(50:10):
few years beforehand, another chef had drowned, people started asking questions.
They were saying, were both of these really just tragic
accidents with dark commonalities based in coincidence? Was there something
more to either case? Could they be connected?
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Does it remind you it's oh god, I'm not saying
this is connected. I'm not trying to start a conspiracy theory,
but it does remind me a tiny bit of chap equitic.
Not the same, not the same, but it does remind
me a little bit. Kennedy killed prepecnee, Yeah, but just
a drowning, yeah, on a compound being used by presidents
(50:53):
or you know that kind of thing. And this one,
the Campbell one, feels weird to me.
Speaker 3 (50:57):
Yeah, especially given the efficacy of drought as an assassination method. Folks,
Before we go any further crucial caveat, we want to
acknowledge the losses of the families here. You can never
replace a loved one, Especially in the days of Internet
trolls and social media, it can be so hurtful for
(51:17):
friends and family to encounter these unfounded accusations allegations, et cetera.
It's particularly cold when those deaths become weaponized by what
we will call fringe actors. But there's there's a lot
more to this story. Like I one personal thing I've
run into in the past. Chefs as diplomats or chefs
(51:43):
as vectors of information. You know a lot of weirdly
polyglottic chefs. You speak seven languages and you're just oh,
you just occasionally do a little hobachi for the ambassador
from Denmark when they happen to be negotiating with Greenland
with the US in Greenland. Any staff working at this
(52:06):
level of power has to be vetted for a reason,
because when you're a world leader, your the size of
your professional sphere explodes, but your private sphere grows a
lot smaller. Like Drake used to say, no new friends,
So who can you trust? You know, I'm the President
of the United States. I don't know if I can
(52:29):
talk off the cuff with my former college buddies. What
I say about Russia and public might be a lot
different from what I say to my favorite chef Cookie
at three in the morning, because I can't sleep and
I just want a hot dog, and I got some
stuff on my mind, you know what I mean, there's
a lot of power in that.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
You have some dogs.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
You've got some hot dogs in a bull Sorry, so
we're obviously we're not saying the KGB turned any White
House staffers in the double O seven style Kingsman style
hit man. But it's not impossible to get info from
(53:09):
these people, and they might not even know what they're
given away. You know, you can just be privy to
sensitive information. It's that guys. It's that old movie trope
where someone is saying, you know, mister Prime minister, mister
President or your highness or whatever, this is secret information,
and then whomever the person in power is, they turn around,
(53:31):
they go, ah, it's just Jeremy. He's fine anyway. Jeremy's
cool man, Tap me up. Anyway, What were you saying
about this patriot deployment? This guy makes great hot talks.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
By the way, oh I bet homemade hot dogs. Let's
talk really quickly about why a chef at that level
might speak five languages or somewhat speak seven, almost a
little bit seven languages, right? Why is that a lot
of chefs that reach this level study broad in different
countries with chefs of high level, the higher level than
(54:04):
them at the moment that they are now studying in Japan,
let's say, or South Korea are now in France or
Germany or wherever. So it is a that is a
fairly common thing. Or working in a kitchen with someone
who primarily speaks Spanish, but you learn some of that
language to be able to effectively communicate with your with
people you're working with. That kitchens end up being a
(54:27):
melting pot in a lot of different ways.
Speaker 3 (54:29):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
So I do think that when we're thinking critically about
all this stuff, right, it doesn't necessarily mean their spies
because they speak seven languages, but that is a helpful
thing if you wanted to be a spy.
Speaker 3 (54:42):
And they also don't have to know their spies, they
could just be able to give information. Also, yeah, not
all Mormon missionaries end up working for the CIA, but
there's a reason the CIA loves them as draft picks.
So this is this is all the stuff. What we're
saying is these are realities. That makes it easy to
(55:04):
understand why some people immediately search for a conspiracy with
these two deaths, even if we don't personally agree with
that perspective. It is understandable that there would be a
wave of conspiracy theories about Campbell that hit social media.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Yeah, there were many. There's many a story written on
the primary media outlets about the number of conspiracy theories
showing up. Often they would focus in on, gosh, what
your is this twenty twenty three when Tafari Campbell tied,
so that this is when x X had already become
a thing, right in twenty three or is that wrong? Yeah,
(55:43):
you're correct, Okay, correct, because in my head it was Twitter,
but I think it is x where that is the
place to me bro Well, that's the place the primary
media would point to and say, hey, look at these
crazy people on x saying crazy things. But really, what
folks would be looking at. Often, at least from my
experience and I think our experience, TikTok, Instagram reels, those
(56:06):
short videos that you just scroll through, those things will
get filled almost immediately after something like this with real
human beings putting things out there. Hey, guys, I'm kind
of what we're doing today, but not the same thing.
I'm just saying, it's kind of weird. What about this?
Seems like maybe they were eating babies? You're like, oh crap, what.
Speaker 4 (56:27):
Often with a piece of footage in the background with
like a circle around something, you know, damn me. It
is the ultimate Charlie Day red threadboard situation.
Speaker 3 (56:35):
Yeah. Oh, and it's always now in this format, it's
on short form video. It's always the face down here
like this in the lower part. And then yeah, and
there's something playing in the back, like you said, and
they're just like.
Speaker 2 (56:48):
And they've got a little mic that they're talking to. Look,
it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (56:53):
Now.
Speaker 4 (56:53):
Now, let me just say Devil's advocate. Sometimes they're pretty
convincing and they give me some stuff to look into,
give us some stuff to look into, and you yeah,
you know, do your homework.
Speaker 3 (57:01):
We got to do it here.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
Now, they just they just do a lot of that
where they get a very bottom and they point at things.
Speaker 4 (57:07):
Oh yeah, yes, yes, oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (57:10):
Right. And as you were saying, no, we're not invalidating
the genre because it can be useful.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
As we've made the point before, anyone can say anything
on these platforms, which is great and horrifying. Yes, yeah,
because it becomes an echo chamber often and then it
will show up on the conspiracy subredd in a bunch
of other places then it shows up in other places,
and quite often things are unfounded, and then folks will
get discouraged when our show doesn't say, oh, yeah, they're
(57:45):
eating humans, right, because it seems so ubiquitous and it
seems so clear because of the sheer number of videos
out there, Oh, the White House eats babies and kids
and humans, and that's why these chefs had to die.
And if enough people are saying it and we don't
say it, then they're like, oh.
Speaker 3 (58:02):
You consensus reality.
Speaker 4 (58:05):
Yeah, guys, I don't know, hot take. I just feel
like if they were eating babies, they wouldn't be getting
the White House staff to prepare them. Yeah, it'd be
some Yeah.
Speaker 3 (58:12):
Yeah, that's that's the thing. Can we can we go
to just for an example of what we're setting up?
Can we go to a guy named Ian Miles Chong? Please? Yeah? Okay,
it's it's uh Twitter if you're faithful or X if
you're weird. Actually everything out July twenty fourth, twenty twenty three.
Chong is part of this massive wave of people who
(58:35):
are most but not all, right wing, prominent accounts who
are arguing conspiracy. Here in Chong's post, we see the
text the death of Obama's personal chef, Tafari Campbell, a
trained swimmer who drowned in a shallow pond outside the
Obama family home. Wild paddle boarding is strange. What do
(58:59):
you you think, really? Hapenn't And then there's a clip
and it's very much like I'm just asking questions. This
has nothing. This has nothing to do with the fact
that I went double down hard on birth certificate conspiracies
and George W. Bush conspiracies. This is different and I
am trustworthy, incredible.
Speaker 2 (59:21):
It just sucks because that is essentially what we've already
done in this episode.
Speaker 3 (59:25):
But it's a good question because strong is correct. By
the way, folks, Campbell was indeed an experienced swimmer, But
there were also people who so a lot of responses
to this one. There were people who replied and said, hey,
I live in the area, like I live in Martha's vineyard,
and even if you're an experienced swimmer, it is easy
(59:47):
to get stuck in the mud at the bottom of
the pond. You can get pulled in and you might
not have the arm strength to pull yourself out. And
then of course there were the folks who were like,
definitely and also my other conspiracy. It's me, Liz Krackin.
I think Campbell was murdered because quote Tafari Campbell isn't
(01:00:10):
the only person died inexplicably in Obama's orbit. Did you
know that the woman who verified the authenticity of Obama's
birth certificate, Loretta Fuddy, was the only person to die
in a plane crash in Hawaii in twenty thirteen. Every
time I survived.
Speaker 4 (01:00:26):
Come on, oh okay, sorry, I understand a particular plane crash,
he was the only one to die. It would have
been funny, extra funny if she was saying that she's
the only person that died in a plane crash.
Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
Yeah, it's true that Loretta Fuddy did die in a
light aircraft crash. Authority said it was catastrophic engine failure.
But what we see here again is the game of
conspiratorial telephone. Someone is taking a question and they're taking
there like Krackin is a very big QAnon enthusiast right.
Speaker 4 (01:00:58):
There, cherry picking a working in reverse to get to
the conclusion that they would enjoy.
Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
Yeah, but it's still like, Loretta Fuddy died in a
light aircraft crash, and we've seen how light aircraft crashes
can function.
Speaker 4 (01:01:14):
Yeah, well it's not. It's not the first time that
that's flown just around in terms of like the potential
conspiracy surrounding the deaths of prominent individuals or government officials,
et cetera. Just like why the drowning thing seems like
such a good cover, especially in that first case we
(01:01:36):
mentioned where the water was so cold they couldn't even
tell when the time of death was. And like all
of the things that happens, you know, drowning just kind
of leaves no trace, has a tendency to wash away
any physical evidence and all that, and there's a good
cover story of like you know, they got swept up
in the riptide or the flash floods, or caught his
foot in the mud, drowned in a puddle.
Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
These are great points because folks, if you are not
worry about someone finding the body, drowning can actually be
a fairly effective form of assassination. And that's not us
saying it, that's history saying it. Because to Knowl's point,
if it's a body of moving water, it can carry
(01:02:18):
the remains. It can also do a lot of forensic
removal for you. Right, So when you are conducting an autopsy.
Something that could be purposeful drowning can sometimes look like
accidental drowning.
Speaker 4 (01:02:36):
There's no escape pension, not to mention if there's crabs, you.
Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Know, Yeah, see the Chattahoochee River in the Atlanta missing
and murdered case. Just we talked about it a lot.
Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
Yeah, and then you know, we have to be fair.
At no point from the first death to now, as
we record August seventh, has either investigation or any investigation
by any official law enforcement outfit found any evidence contradicting
those conclusions of death by accidental drowning. So the question
(01:03:14):
then becomes is there something in common? Is there a connection?
Is it just that both people worked for one of
the most prestigious places on the planet and then died
in a similar way? Or does the story go deeper?
Speaker 4 (01:03:31):
Eight feed deep?
Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
Hmm, Here's why I mentioned the Epstein files. What of
the jerky of it all? Guys?
Speaker 4 (01:03:38):
Do we recall this?
Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Do we recall the beef jerky?
Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (01:03:44):
Human everybody.
Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
Everybody wanted Epstein's jerky for some reason, and they needed
more jerky.
Speaker 4 (01:03:50):
Because it fortified them.
Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Yes, Look, I know that that doesn't mean human meat.
It means it's weird that people were so in to
Jeffrey Epstein's jerky and how he got it and how
he procured it and got it produced and the guy
from it. Yeah, and what was the what was that
restaurant the chef that made the jerky allegedly? Do you
(01:04:14):
remember this?
Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
Oh? Right, do you remember this?
Speaker 4 (01:04:17):
No, you're talking about I don't remember the name of
the restaurant. In fact, this is the first time. Maybe
I'm curtain, but we talked about it. I just don't
remember the jerky talk. Sorry, Yeah, I brought it to you,
brought it to me. I brought the jerky talk you
brought yes, Well, yeah, you know, we talk about a
lot of things, guys. I'm sorry, jerky talk flew around.
Speaker 3 (01:04:35):
Where are we going with this one?
Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
That?
Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Where do you want to go?
Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
You can see why there are so many rumors that
float around about potentially, you know, these these darker things
that have existed forever, right, They that start in a
lot of different places, sometimes in anti Semitism, sometimes in fear,
sometimes in a classist kind of struggle against these royalty
(01:04:57):
that have feasts and these kinds of things. Room about
what these people could be getting up to, right, and
fears about what it might be, and also caricatures, because
it's almost getting back at the people that that do
in real ways control your life or at least hold
sway over you. These rumors of no, they eat people,
they drink blood that you know, this kind of thing
(01:05:20):
these persists in. They're out there and they have been
for a long time. It is weird to see them
now filtered through the Epstein files, with things like jerky
that have actual some like celebrity chefs that are attached
to the name that do appear fishy and strange. But
(01:05:40):
it doesn't mean they have anything to do with the
deaths of these two people we've been talking about today.
It just means that that stuff is out there right now,
and it's getting harder and harder to figure out what's
true and what's not. And that's all I have to say.
Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
Okay, oh, okay, okay, all right. And at this point, folks,
investigations into both of these cases have been closed. Much
of the conspiratorial chatter has faded away. But for the
true believers, there is still stuff they don't want you
to know. We want to know your thoughts again. Our
thoughts are with the friends and families of these people
(01:06:15):
who tragically passed away. Thank you so much for tuning in.
What do you make of these deaths? Do you think
one or both are suspicious? Or is this another case
of people trying to put patterns where there aren't any.
We can't wait to hear from you. There are many
ways to find us online, and.
Speaker 4 (01:06:33):
If you want to get in touch with us, you
can do so by reaching out to the handles Conspiracy
Stuff or Conspiracy Stuff Show where we exist on the internet.
Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
Our phone number is one eight three three std WYTK.
When you call in, tell us your thoughts on I
believe his name was Francis Derby. I think that was
the guy that we talked about with the jerky in
the Epstein files, Derby Jerky, something about that. I think
that's what it was. God, remember, I can't get a
bit Cannibal parts. The name of the restaurant was Cannibal.
Speaker 4 (01:07:02):
No it was not. Yes, No, you've told us about this, Matt,
I don't remember. I think you're mistaken. I have no
recollection of Cannibal the Jerky restaurant. That's too good. I
just I would think that I'm not I'm not saying
that I didn't. I'm just saying I'm shocked that I
(01:07:23):
have no recollection of that, because that is quite on
the nose.
Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
Well, you know what, call us in and tell us
if you have recollection of that. Uh, it's really simple
to voicemail system. You'll figure it out. Hey, you can
contact us by email.
Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
We are the entities the read each piece of correspondence
we receive. Be well aware yet to ut afraid. Sometimes
the void writes back, and actually is writing back to
several of us as we record this evening. So find
us out here in the dark. Give us your favorite
random fact. We'll give you one in return. Conspiracy at
iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
Stuff they Don't Want you to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello, and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
my name is Noah.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our
super producer Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you
are you.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
You are here.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Guys.
I almost add the stuff they do not want you
to know, but that's going to mess up our cadence.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
It's too formal, man to formal.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
It's a little too formal.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
I think contractions only here on the pod, contractions only
and contracts Tonight is not necessarily a political episode, but
just so you know going in, this does hinge on
a specific piece of famous real estate in the United
States that is often involved with politics.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Technically, this is also a bit of a food episode.
Quick question as we're starting off, have either of you
guys ever visited the White House? Nolan and I were
talking about this a little off air.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I've just seen it from like, you know, through the
gates but I've never taken a tour. I was never invited.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Well, you went to that protest.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
I was at the protest, the Women's March thing for
a work related thing. And then yeah, it was crazy.
The day before was the day Trump was inaugurator the
first time. It was like everything was on fire and
they were like low flying hellic. I'm not joking. There
were like newspaper boxes on fire and people like like
swat people in riot gear and people throwing molotov cocktails
through windows.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
It was wild.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
And then the Women's March day was quite a contrast.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
What about you and that, Well, we've all been through
DC for part of our tour years and years ago.
I remember shooting a video of you ben right outside
of the White House on the other side of that
fence that is like shown all the time.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Where it is legal to film.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Mm hm oh yeah, that's public property. Totally totally on
the up and up there. I have been there personally.
I've not been to the White House. But it's not
just the White House we're talk about, right, We're talking
about several different palatial estates across the world.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Today.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
We're also going to be one of the main reasons
we're talking about this is because the conspiracyphere lit up
immediately after the events, will be discussing today with wild claims. Yeah,
some that are you know, with the Epstein files, with
the releases of those, they've become less insane perhaps, but
(02:52):
they're still like on that fringe level because we are
talking about perhaps eating humans with Yeah, yep.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
This is this is where we're talking about presidential favorite meals.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
This is technically a food episode, so all three of
us are working are correct, but do be worn, folks.
As my pal Matt said, this one gets dark. Let's
stroll over to the White House and figure out some
backgrounds here. This is our here of the facts part
is going to be a bunch of I don't know,
(03:28):
really cool stuff for nerds.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Let's find out what's for dinner.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Here are the facts, Okay, folks, As you can imagine,
whether or not you live in these United States, sixteen
hundred Pennsylvania Avenue is a big deal. It's where our
commander in chief technically lives during their time in office,
and it's an old building. They employ a lot of people.
(04:00):
Just quick stats, the White House has roughly four hundred
to five hundred direct staff is what they're called in
the White House Office, and then they have about ninety
residents and maintenance workers. So roughly like also, if you
count the building next door, the Executive Office of the President,
(04:23):
they have eighteen hundred total personnel. So right now the
closest numbers we have are from July of twenty twenty six.
The White House directly employs four hundred and eleven folks.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Well, I mean, obviously a lot of those folks that
are in and out of there are working in you know,
kind of governmental capacities, you know, are part of cabinet
and things like that. But we're also talking about the
kind of staff that say, like a palatial estate might
employ or dare we say a castle.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
You know, in a state, a manor. That's what it is.
Right Typically, when we imagine someone saying, oh, hey, babe,
I work at the White House, we might think of
secret service or high level politicians, cabinet members, kitchen cabinet
joke on the way, and of course, you know, the
president of the United States. But no, you make such
(05:18):
a wonderful point. The reality for a lot of the
folks here is way less glamorous because this is a big, palatial,
opulent building. It is also very old. So even when
there is not construction on say a ballroom slash.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Bunker right, bunker b ballam bunker right.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Even even when there's not construction like that, sixteen hundred,
Pennsylvania needs a pretty sizable active team of people doing
all the stuff that never hits the news. Who cleans
those roups, right, who's our hvac guy, who mows the
law and et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Groundskeepers. I mean, like you know, landscaping, the rose garden,
all that kind of stuff. They got to keep it
looking nice. Now it's a little different these days, but
that's the kind of stuff we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
It reminds me a lot of many of the staff
that were employed by the Piedmont Driving Club who were
meant to not even really be seen. It says, though
you are invisible, you move through these huge ballrooms and
you know, massive rooms underground areas for employees only where
you can get from one place to another without the
(06:31):
members seeing you, or in this case, the upper staff
of the White House doing those things like like you said,
tending to the outside, the inside, the roof, literally everything
including the kitchens.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
You know, it's weird too. That's a great point, Matt
about Piedmont Driving Club. It's weird too for us as
Americans to realize how Downton Abbey upstairs, downstairs divided the
White House actually is. And these folks are the beating
heart of this estate, of this real estate. They are
(07:03):
an integral piece of the household. And you know, I
was talking with somebody who does background checks earlier for
an unrelated thing, and just imagine, let us all for
a second, how bad it would look to the world
if the White House had a crappy yard. I don't
want to sound too much like an old man, but
(07:25):
you know, if you saw that their grass was bad
and they had, you know, an old Chevy up on
some cinder blocks, well.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
As a fellow old man, you do get to a
point where your lawn reflects.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Your you know who you are, just like the menu
that you might order. Segue foreshadowing. No matter, this is
cool because it reminds us, and hopefully reminds you folks,
of our conversations about those food service workers at the Pentagon, right,
and the people who take out the trash at the Pentagon,
(08:01):
or do the HVAC at the Pentagon. They have to
pass a background check that goes up the wazoo. They
obviously have to have drug tests, they have to have
an established record of excellence within their fields. And to
be clear, yeah, a lot of the folks that we're
talking about in the White House here are going to
(08:23):
be contractors, which means that they have a private company
that has complied with Uncle Sam's security requirements and they
don't have, you know, compartmentalized or top secret clearance. But
you might be surprised, folks by how many people have
some version of a secrecy clearance just because of the
(08:46):
access to the places that they are visiting in their
day to day work. Last thing, most recently, political loyalty
to the administration became part of the vet process. Back
in the day, they didn't care who you were when
you were Moe in the yard.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Yeah, you said, things are all different these days. It's
important to point out too, which you might already be thinking,
is that you know, these larger events, visiting dignitaries, state
dinners and stuff like that, they do bring in outside
help for that. Oftentimes they'll be like a guest chef
that they invite to co design and kind of head
(09:26):
up the creation of the meal. But all the cooking
still does happen in the White House kitchens, but the
day to day meals are done by the executive residents
culinary team, which includes a chef, pastry chef, and of
course the associated staff.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Yeah. Yeah, the Sioux chefs. Shout out to them, We're
going to spend some time with one in particular. And guys,
this might get us in a little bit of hot
or very cold water. I have to say. The political
loyalty point. I know it's weaponized today, but it kind
(10:01):
of makes sense historically. If you are an American president,
would you purposely hire an avowed communist who wanted to
overthrow the United States? Because if you did, you would
grant them a deep level of access to one of
the most powerful political organizations on the planet. So maybe
(10:21):
there should be something like maybe not who did you
vote for, but maybe something akin to are you okay
with the United States existing? Well?
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Guys, I mean I go back to the whole palace
intrigue of it all. I mean, what's more dangerous than
somebody on the cooking staff who might have it out
for the king or the president? You know, and it
makes me think of like a court tasters, you know,
taking food tasters and all of that. And Ben, I
don't know if this came up in your research, but
(10:53):
I did not realize that the dining and the culinary
services is actually handled by the US Navy.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah, yep, which.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Is something called white house mess Yeah, it's a lot
of fun.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
You got to earn your way up because you've got
your housekeepers vetted, you have your landscapers vet it to
some degree. We could talk about that later. It might
be outside of the scope of this or two in
the weeds. These folks are not politicians themselves. They are
not elected. They do have, to your point, Noal, an
intimate inside look at some of the most sensitive conversations.
(11:31):
We could imagine. One of the most coveted roles in
this storied institution is the role of the executive chef.
So if you work in food service, fellow conspiracy realist,
you are going to enjoy this one or send us
emails to set us straight.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
Yeah, I gotta wonder how somebody pursuing the culinary art
sets their sites on that particular gig.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Well, first, they didn't have a choice. The very first
president cook for the very first president was a man
known as Hercules who was enslaved by George Washington, and
it served as the first presidential cook until he escaped
slavery in seventeen ninety seven on George Washington's birthday. So
(12:21):
this has been around for a while. I think was
up until about eighteen hundred, the White House kitchen forced
enslaved people to cook for the ruling class.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Talk about a strange choice, just considering the founding documents
and then to have in the primary residence of the
person that's running this new place based upon these new
documents that state pretty clearly what they feel like. Every
human being, every man is created equally, and yet you
have enslaved human beings to cook your food to continue
(12:54):
your life. Going on and again talking about that trust,
enslaving some one and then you know, not thinking they
might want to hurt you. That's a that's a crazy
thing to do.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Well, it's part and parcel with the whole white supremacist
angle of it. All They look at these folks is
inherently inferior genetically, of course, but I imagine that intellect
would go into that and they would be like, well, no,
we are their masters, and they are like, you know, good,
good pets that would never ever do anything to harm
their masters. It's just this like absolute delusional way of
(13:27):
looking at human beings.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Benevolent, condescending, demi gods is how they see it. Do
also check out a show or an episode of our
related sister show Francis Scott Key, the guy who wrote
the Star Spangled Banner, also a slave owner and kind
of a jerk.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Recently, I just got back from a personal trip to
the UK and I went to this place called the
Royal Pavilion in Brighton and Hove I think, I think
it's maybe just Brighton, and it is this taj Mahal
inspired giant palace that was made for the various King
George's or the Prince George and King George the Fourth.
(14:09):
It was it was like Prince of Wales, whatever George
then he got sick and in the head and couldn't
govern or whatever whatever you do as king. So then
George the third, George the Fourth came in. Anyway, it's
this whole thing. But they had this massive ballroom right
where they would put on these feasts and you got
(14:32):
to go into the kitchen where these feasts are prepared,
and there are you just learn about the human beings
that worked so hard, tirelessly to put out these meals
that were just when you think about those medieval feasts, guys,
and you see them depicted on screen, the real menu
that you got to see when you walk into this
(14:53):
this place from eighteen seventeen. It was like, I couldn't
even tell you how dozens of courses it was. And
each course had like three or five different things where
they would just bring out, uh, what do they say,
the head of a great sturgeon in champagne, pigeons in crayfish, butter.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
Yes, but just beasts inside of other, beasts inside of other.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Well, it takes you back to Marie Antoinette and some
of that depiction just of what it's like to have
a simple meal. But this is not a simple meal
obviously that we're describing, but just to have lunch one
day in your palace, what does that look like? And
what does it take to prepare that?
Speaker 4 (15:35):
What does it take? Not to get too political about it,
but like I mean to do that in the face
of folks around you that you're ruling over, starving or
not able to afford to you.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Know, right, let me cake check out our upcoming strange
news conversation about grocery prices. We we know the White
House has the American expeariman has always had this weird
thing about how to handle its one percent? Right, it's
(16:07):
upper crust? Are we a nation ruled by a small
majority of aristocrats? Technically that is correct. Technically that is correct.
I know a lot of people don't love it when
we point that out, but it is beat me here, Dylan.
It's weird and it's correct. So the White House has
(16:29):
a what they call a permanent full time culinary staff
of five to six chefs. So this will be like
your executive chef. This will be your Sioux chefs, those folks,
by the way, because of some earlier conversations in Congress,
when those folks cook for the first family, the president,
the spouse, the ghettoes, whatever that comes out of the
(16:53):
president's pocket technically, but when you get to those big
state dinners like you're describing Noll, the large events, Oh
some guy from Russia's showing up, or oh this is
the big pubab insert country here, then they call in
a part time staff of twenty to twenty five assistant chefs,
(17:15):
food runners, waiters, stewards, butler's, etc. Those folks all get
overseen by the position of executive chef. And that chef
position is pretty cool, interestingly enough, because it remains stable
often throughout changes in administration, like successive presidents who hate
(17:40):
each other will often still stick with the same chef
and just say, you know, you seem cool. I like
real cheese, and the chef says yes, mister President. So
who is our first, aside from Hercules, who has been
ignored in history, who is our first official executive chef
(18:01):
of the modern White House?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
There've always been chefs, as they were saying, in the
White House, and chefs and many a cook, many a
sue serving that facility right, and as the White House
has changed over the years. But the title executive chef,
the position executive chef at the White House was started
by Jacqueline Kennedy and that was in nineteen sixty one. Guys,
(18:25):
you might have to check me on that. I think
it was sixty one where Rene Verdn, which who was
a French chef. He was well known, but he wasn't
like a celebrity chef does that make sense, guys. Yeah,
we don't often see a celebrity chef filling the role
(18:46):
of executive chef for the White House. So like in
Anthony Bardane showing up, Hey, guess what, I'm the chef now.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
Well, but someone like that might be brought on for
a special engagement.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Yes, but then the White House executive chef since nineteen
sixty one has taken on a bit of celebrity status
because now they're in interviews all the time. There's this
excitement about oh, what is the First family eating these days?
And all all of that stuff, right with a bit
of the royalty treatment happening. Huh in a little bit
(19:18):
maybe exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, people are starving throughout the world. But what do
the Bush twins eat? Do they really need to know
the calories for every meal? That's crazy. We'll be back
after a brief break for the news in the Middle East.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Oh God, sponsoring us.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
It's very bread. It's just so, it's so it's isolated.
And again we're not disparaging the chefs they're doing. No,
they're doing a very good job.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
They do an incredible thing. And you know, cooking food
is an art and it is science and there are
specific chefs who have made it so right so that
we think about cooking as an art and a science
rather than just getting sustenance.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
For a meal.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
And just to take it back to the pavilion for
one second, the chef there that would cook or that
was known to cook there a lot of the time
was Marie Antoine Karem, who was arguably the first celebrity
chef back in the eighteen hundreds. And this is a
person that was was known for these those crazy feasts
(20:22):
we were talking about, but also as promoting food as
art and science right on.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
And also Julia Childs worked as a spy. We're gonna
that is true, and this is this is a this
we're planting seeds right, you know what I mean. We're
getting our mission place. So we also need you to know,
folks that across the pond. Over in the United States,
(20:48):
the most recent official executive chef is a tremendously inspiring
person named Christeta Comerford. This chef served from two thousand
and five to two thousand and twenty four. Her story
is phenomenal. Native of the Philippines, becomes an assistant chef
(21:10):
after getting after getting US citizenship, in nineteen ninety five
under the Clintons, works her way up under the W.
Bush presidency speaking of aristocracy in two thousand and five,
and that time window is so interesting because that means
she was cooking for five separate presidents. It's like, especially
(21:35):
in these divided times, it is extraordinary to realize these
folks definitely don't agree on politics, but apparently good food
is the one bipartisan issue they can all get behind.
So congrats to that chef. Also, first woman, first person
(21:55):
of color to achieve this rarefied position.
Speaker 4 (21:59):
I mean, these days, the no of anybody keeping a
job from one administration to the next is pretty much
a non starter.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
It's a good point. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Well, but it is crazy that she gets that actlyte
and it is great that she does. But considering all
of the enslaved human beings of color who worked in
that position essentially right, So it is that weird thing
where we have to we create the specialized position of
executive chef. And now that is a thing versus the
(22:30):
human beings who actually did the thing long long ago,
but did it against their will.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah, which is why I'm so happy we got the
chance to shout out hercules at the very beginning right now,
there is no official executive chef at the White House,
which might surprise people because that seems like something the
current regime would want. Right Instead, there is a former
(22:55):
assistant of comer Ford named Tommy Kurpreditt krad It. He
is the current acting executive chef, and hey, man, if
you're watching this, good luck, chef. We hope they make
you official.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Keep those fryars hot.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Gosh, keep those burgers ready right at any time of
day or night. Obviously, any work in any kitchen on
a professional level is going to be stressful. Yet the
steaks or the steaks thank you for the spelling jo yes,
spelling joke, they're a whole other level. Right when your
(23:33):
regular diners are some of the most powerful and arguably
some of the most dangerous people on the planet. You know,
there's a legendary level of service here. There's also an
entirely different dark side to cooking at the White House
because Matt No, like we're saying, there are tons of
(23:54):
documentaries and interviews about the story history of the White
House Kitchen. Can watch all these things, these investigations into
how the sausage is literally made and so on all
the livelong day. But there is a strange pattern a
lot of people miss, which is this White House chefs
(24:18):
it seems have been drowning.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
You mean like in work, you mean like they's got
so much going on that they're just they can't keep
their head above water.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Keep their head above water. No, that seems to be
the problem.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
We're talking literally, But I'm sorry, I have to just
drop this in the We're talking about the dark side
of the spoon.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
There we go. Here's where it gets crazy. Fellow conspiracy realist,
It is true, not once, but twice high profile former
White House chefs have passed away in drowning incidents. One
of these was an executive chef. Another one was a
(25:00):
Sioux chef who later went on to work as a
personal chef for the Obama administration. So, who wants to
introduce us to Walt?
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Yes, indeed, Walter Shibe Sheeb, I'm gonna go with shi.
It was born on May the third of nineteen fifty four,
Walter Stanley Shibe the third. He cut his teeth in
DC's Capital Hilton, A bit of a fancy Hilton's back
in those days. If they had a little more Cachet.
From there, he worked at the Boca rattan overre in
(25:31):
Boca Resort for four years, and he traveled back to
Washington worked briefly at the Mayflower Hotel. It's pretty storied.
After the Mayflower, he became the executive chef at the
Greenbrier in West Virginia.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Boss Greenbrier Hotel, what's special about that?
Speaker 3 (25:48):
What is special about that? Thanks to our pal Garrett M. Graff,
the author of Raven Rock, the story of the US
government's secret land to save itself while the rest of
us die is What's secret about this is that Greenbrier
had a longstanding doomsday bunker for America's most influential politicians.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
I would love to talk more about the intersection between
hospitality and doom's day protection.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Mm.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
You know, I mean we're talking about that ballroom earlier,
which is, you know, definitely aligned with that. So it
does kind of make you think after the typical addition
process for that gig. And I was sort of being
flip earlier about who would target that specific gig, you know,
who someone who's dedicated their life to culinary pursuits. Well,
it turns out thousands would hope to have that job.
(26:41):
So that makes perfect sense because to your point, Matt,
this is someone that does inevitably take on a certain
type of celebrity status unto themselves in the culinary world.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
That's a proximity to power in general.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
I think, oh, sure, sure, So thousands apply, only a
few are invited for an audition. Shibe became the White
House executive chef in nineteen ninety four, and he would
hold onto that position again to our earlier point, maybe
not as common anymore until two thousand and five.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
Yeah, this is fascinating because if you are a fan
of history, if you are a fan of diplomacy and
pulinary forensics, we could almost call it, you will be
just baffled by the anecdotes of pulinary drama that occur constantly.
So no matter who you voted for, what you need
(27:35):
to know is that the president you like or hate
routinely conspires with the White House kitchen staff to get
snacks when they think they can get away with it
and get away from their keepers. They're entourage their family.
Even Bill Clinton was reportedly infamous for this conspiracy because
(27:59):
every time his wife Hillary Clinton was away from the grounds,
he would come up to the chef and be like, uh,
can I get a twenty four ounce porterhouse? Let me think,
and we'll just keep this between us.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
And just to walk back what I said earlier. And
I think this speaks to your point, Ben about how
this gig is somewhat a political the you had mentioned
the previous executive chef, Christeta Comerford had that gig for
twenty one years and only just recently retired. And we
don't have, I believe, a new official executive chef. So
that person was there through Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Yes. Yeah, And the food of the White House is
as much of a statement as it is sustenance. It's
politicized as anything else. Let us not forget the Great
Poupon scandal, right because everybody has to eat, so you
want to feel that universal connection. Whatever the First Family
consumes often becomes, for better or worse, a statement about
(29:01):
the country. There was a past chef who balked at this.
I don't know how much we all read about this,
but I was interested in the story of Hans Raffert,
who notably ended up well. He was asked by the
Clintons to cook low fat American cuisine and it was
a bridge too far for his soul as a chef,
(29:24):
right as an artist. And he balked at this and
he ended up technically residing. But really they fired him
because a man's got avo code.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Well, he's a French, he's a he's a German human,
but he is a French chef, right, so as cuisine
is French, and what do you use in French cuisine
more than anything fat?
Speaker 3 (29:49):
I mean so, so it's that's an interesting note because
there are people who put their principles over celebrity, your prestige, right,
And our guy Walter is very good at his job.
He can roll with the punches. Eventually, even he was
let go due to differences in preference under the Bush administration.
(30:15):
There's there's a little piece of e femera you can
catch in the news from back in the day where
an anonymous White House staffer says there was tension. You know,
the chef knew that the Bushes didn't like scallops, and
I think he kept serving him scallops on purpose.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
That would be a move, wouldn't it.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
I love it. But he stays in the public eye,
right because, like we're saying, once you attain this rarefied air,
wherever you go, your fortune is made right as long
as you leave in an amicable way. He writes a memoir,
He co writes a memoir. He becomes a lecturer consultant,
(30:56):
so he goes to people who are doing fancy state
dinners and said stuff like, here's where the fork for
the salad goes? I don't know. And then he also
he al on.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
The left, that's the little it's a little fork.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Rt Right, there's a old Larry Day to think about this. Yeah. Yeah.
And he founds the corporation to handle his his legal
dealings in this regard. And he also he's known to
be a pretty great orator because of his anecdotes about
what world leaders he Yeah, I'd be interested in.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
That, Yeah, exactly, because ultimately you've got knowledge now, and
you're imparting that knowledge through things like memoirs, through books,
through speaking engagement things like that.
Speaker 4 (31:37):
Well, you know, it would also give you a little
bit of insight into like the health of an individual,
wouldn't it long long term?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Wise?
Speaker 4 (31:43):
And they how likely they are to live for a
long time or not?
Speaker 3 (31:46):
How many cheeseburgers per day?
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Yeah, exactly how many hot dogs have you had today
this morning?
Speaker 3 (31:53):
How many once like for coffee or we talk it
like because the day starts at the offee.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
It's like chopped up hot dogs.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Have you heard a lot of this chatter? I don't
know if it's coming from the it's probably coming what's
coming from some staff for sure. About how apparently Trump
has like used like empty ice cream cartons and burger wrappers.
It's always like litter all over his bedchambers.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Oh god boy, No, I haven't heard about that.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Yeah, that's the kind of information we're talking about.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Tip your housekeeper, whether you're at a hotel or what Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Yes, or just at your house if it's a palse and.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
If you're your housekeeper, tip yourself.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Yes, be good to yourself at the very least. Yeah,
you're doing a great job.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
We do. Really, what's going on?
Speaker 2 (32:36):
So let's talk about an unspoken thing a little bit
because of the glorification a bit of the title of
executive chef. An executive chef once you reach that level
and you're creating a menu and you are showing other
chefs how to prepare your menu or your style or
(32:57):
the exact nature even a restarred Michelin chef. Well, actually
not so much that. I don't know that. I think
there are levels to this whole thing. But if you
become an executive chef, often you are not the one
doing the cooking anymore. You are going places, you're having meetings,
You're dealing with the business side. Hence the term executive.
There you were maybe starting restaurants, you're beginning a franchise,
(33:21):
maybe you are traveling a lot. The executive chef title
is very different than a Sioux chef or someone who's
doing me some implas all day long and cutting vegetables.
The the executive chef is this, I don't know how
to put it, guys, it's it's not all about cookery anymore.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
You're the ambassador of the kitchen, is the way I
would put it. You're the You're the You're definitely the
administrative head, right you, Yeah, on that part of the downstairs.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Yes, and that that therein lies. I think why it's
such a sought after position because working in a kitchen
is so labor intensive and hard and sweaty and can
just be god awful and wonderful at the same time. Right,
doesn't mean it's all terrible, but it's hard to ask work.
So I'm imagining just this thing that might be chased
(34:17):
after once you get it, once you've done it. I
wonder what an executive chef of the White House does
when they're finished.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Right right? Where do you go next after you've beaten
the video game? You've beaten the final level?
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Well, it's the end games, and some games they ain't
got it right, like Skyrim, which is awesome.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Everybody should play it. So that's a bit of an aside,
but it's it's a great point because when we're when
we're talking about this level your executive chef, if you
go to the world's best restaurants of the past, like
Albouye or Noma, what you see is those guys are
(34:58):
almost Frank Lloyd Wright level cult worshiped, right, and they
come in and they say, well, you pitch me this dish,
and you let me taste it and see if it's
worthy for service. So are there are a lot more
like generals than they are like infantry is a good
(35:20):
way to think about it. That's why they call it
a brigade. That's exactly why they call it a brigade.
No because the French concept of how a kitchen should
be run and how the labor should be divided does
come from military experience. So this guy, our guy, Walt
chef Wald, he travels widely. He's doing quite well. He's
(35:44):
not too old, you know, he's late fifties in this
time of his life, getting up to just north of sixty.
And he doesn't just visit almost every United States. He
makes it too, one hundred and fifty four countries between
two thousand and seven and twenty fifteen. His passport looked
(36:10):
it looked like a Russian prisoner. It was that. Yeah,
it looked like VORs on that. And he ends up
going to He has personal trials and travails, of course.
He ends up moving to New Mexico, to Taos, New Mexico.
He has a girlfriend, he has a good family life.
(36:30):
He's set to go. He goes on a hike in
twenty fifteen, and on June thirteenth of that year, he
is reported missing because he doesn't return from this hike.
So investigators track his cell phone as best they can.
They say, okay, this cell phone is in a nearby
(36:52):
mountain in Taos, and a few days later, on June
twenty First, they discover the remains of the former executive
chef of the White House about one point seven miles
from the base of the hiking trail.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Yeah, about thirty yards away from a hiking trail. And
you can read a lot about this specific trail that
he was hiking down. What it looked like, you know,
the elevation change and all that kind of stuff. Was
it uphill, was a downhill? Was it like? How much
water was there? Because all of these things come into play,
especially when you realize that it appears this man had drowned,
(37:31):
or at least according to the official story.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Yeah, yeah, because the autopsy results indicated some questions and
some conclusions. First, the authority said there's no side of
foul play. But keep in mind what Matt just said, folks.
He the autopsy said he was dead as a result
of accidental drowning. However, the ravine where he was found,
(37:58):
the water was very cold. It preserved his cadaver in
a way that made it impossible to know exactly when
he died. So when you hear accidental drowning, for a
lot of more cynical people in the crowd, you end
up asking how accidental is an accident, to be fair,
This area where the chef is hiking is well known
(38:22):
for flash floods, and on the day he was reported missing,
a ton of thunderstorms had rolled through. And if you're
familiar with this part of the United States, or with
New Mexico and this part of New Mexico specifically, you
know that when those floods happened, they happen quickly. Flash
flood is not an ironic term at all. The water
(38:46):
is not there and then a lot of it suddenly
appears as if it teleported.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeah, it's called the Yurbucanyan trail head. It's a four
mile trail and it follows basically the base of a
canyon and then it travels up thirty seven hundred feet.
So imagine a lot of rain coming down thirty seven
hundred feet towards you. If you're at the bottom of that,
it could be really treacherous, or if you're caught in
that incline as a bunch of water and debris and
(39:15):
mud and all that stuff is heading towards you. So
there is a potential for absolutely natural thing that occurred,
a tragedy in the wrong place at the wrong time
it this one, I would just say, doesn't it feels
like it could be that, right, just an accident.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Right, because the wild is the wild, and even an
experienced hiker may be in a situation where your environment
changes so quickly you can't find purchase as you're scrambling
for that elevation. We also have to know, as as
you'll recall astute conspiracy realist, people die from hiking all
(39:52):
the time in the United States every year, so much
so the federal government still does not keep a data
of how many people go missing in national parks. So
this is something to that point that absolutely could happen
and the news could fade from the headlines, except that
(40:13):
just a few years later, in twenty twenty three, another
tragedy struck and people started seeing connections between these two
tragedies and they started looking at Chef Walter's death in
a new light. So now we introduce Tafari Campbell. TAFARII
(40:39):
Campbell is a former White House Sioux chef, which is
kind of like a second in command, you know, to
our earlier point about an executive chef, this this guy,
this chef is serving while the Barack Obama administration is
in the White House, and the First Family became very
(41:00):
close to Chef Campbell during their time there. They befriend him,
They know his family and his kids as well. They say,
when they're leaving the White House, they say, hey, do
you want to just come work for us because you're
you're awesome. We like hanging out with you. And he agrees.
So Campbell often works at an estate on Martha's Vineyard
(41:25):
in Massachusetts owned by the Obama family. It's called Katama.
I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. Ka T A m A.
This guy's young.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Is the Katama because they the Obama family, by the way,
much like Royalty, has owned or lived in a couple
of different estates there on Martha's Vineyards. Yes, the one
I'm looking at, the one that's dealing with this incident
is I think it's seventy nine Turkey Land Cove Road
or something right by the pond. Yeah, between slowco in
(42:00):
Turkey Land Cove out there on Egerton Great Pond.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
And it is a friggin' to talk about a castle
for sure.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
Yeah, because you know, you never really stop being president.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Isn't it isn't that crazy? Yeah, I don't know why
I had some kind of illusions about the the Obama
family or something. I was like, Oh, they're not quite
as like they're not. They're they're up there, but they're
not like the Bush family.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
You thought they about a duplex, dude, But no.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
But we've talked about the Bush family and the fortunes
that were made their way before the presidency, and you
know how much money flowed around that family. Yeah, the
Obama family didn't have that. If you go back in
the history at least the available history of like where
Barack Obama lived wait far or before you know, becoming
governor or president or any of that stuff, and the
(42:54):
humbleness of those things. Then you look at this place
on Martha's Vineyard, which is like what, that's the the
royal grounds of the Americas. Yeah, martha Zenyards, one of
two right out there on the coast of Boston. It
just it didn't I didn't imagine this is where they
would be hanging out. I don't know what.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
It's twenty nine acres folks right on Awata as Massachusetts
would say. And to be clear that when I say Katama,
that's the section of Edgar Town that they're living in.
Toward the address that you're talking about, right, So.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
It's it's it's six ninety two square feet of house.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
It's a lot of house. Do you want more house?
Because we have more house. We have house on special.
So the the thing is this guy Campbell, this chef
is very talented. He has made a great impression on
the actual President of the United States. And at this
time he is about forty five years old. Right, So
(44:00):
done his time in the White House. He is now
a personal chef to one of the most powerful, most
dangerous people on the planet. He could have kept this
job for decades or until he decided to retire. Unfortunately,
you know, he could have just spent all his time
in the recreational swimming pools that he loved. Unfortunately this
(44:21):
was not to be the case.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
He did love the recreational swimming pools, right.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
He's an accomplished swimmer, right, yeah, yeah, he is.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Think about it. Okay, let's keep going.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Yeah, let's go to July twenty fourth. It's twenty twenty
three local authorities and again this very posh area of
the United States. They get a nine to one one call.
It's around seven forty six pm and it's from a
person who is paddle boarding on that pond we mentioned earlier,
(44:52):
and he says, another paddle boarder has gone into the water.
He's a dude. I saw him dip down. He was
struggling to stay on the surface. He went back under
the water again and he has not returned to the surface,
and I can provide more details. We need help, We
(45:14):
need help. A search begins. There are multiple agencies in
the area. They're lending a hand. Eventually, an outfit called
the Massachusetts Environmental Police locates a body. They do this
using what we call a side scan sonar. So they're
floating around in a boat and they're waiting for a
(45:36):
ping and then the divers come in from the State
Police and they find a body. It's about one hundred
feet from shore at a depth of only eight feet.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Strong swimmer experience, Well, now that is where the body
is recovered. That doesn't mean that's the human became a body.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Right, Yeah, But I'm with Noel here eight feet.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
I'm also with you, guys. I'm just trying to remain
fair objective.
Speaker 4 (46:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Yeah. So they find they find this body. At first,
they don't know it's Campbell, but it doesn't take long
to connect the dots and they are able to verify
these are the remains of Campbell. So the police issue
a statement and a spokesperson with the outfit called the
Massachusetts Executive Office of Public Safety and Security says autopsy
(46:36):
has confirmed the cause of death. It is accidental drowning.
And then, for the record, before we get deeper here,
the Obama family, so far as we know, was not
at the estate during this.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Time, but it is right off of the estate.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
It's right there, and there was a second paddle border.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Yeah you know, I heard nine to one to one
audio that was allegedly a part of this, and it
sounded like a security team member alerting other security team members,
but you know, speaking directly to the emergency services.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
Yeah, you know that.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Kind of speak that is very straight to the point.
Here's what's happening. It's a male blah blah blah on
this blah blah blah, blah blah blah. That's all you
need to know.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
And then oh my god, there's no holy craps, No,
none of that. Very contained, very clipped, very terse, very direct.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Which is two things right. That is how someone who
is trained to do that acts when you're in a
crisis mode to be calm and just get the information
across that you need. But it's also maybe the way
someone would act if they had just drowned. Somebody just
putting it out there.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
We're just putting it out there because we have we
have I hope not purposely drowned anyone on this show.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
Well, I mean, I guess no, But what I mean
is we have heard how about this personally? Guys, I
have listened to the audio of the Zodiac killer or
the alleged Zodiac killer making the phone calls, you know
where it just says some things to you about what
I just did, and it reminded me of that.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
Yeah, I'd add to that in some personal experience. A
lot of people deal with shock in very different ways. So,
for example, you might hear someone sounding very collected because
their shock is kicking in right, and their survival mechanisms
(48:32):
or maybe their muscle memory are going to keep them
going until their mind tells them it's okay to collapse, right,
So that could be part of it too, But this
was not. It did not sound like it's cool. We
don't want to read too many tea leaves. We do
have to admit again, just like with hiking in the
(48:54):
United States, Sadly, a significant number of people accidentally dropt
in this country every single year. One of the most
famous examples in our neck of the Global Woods is
Lake Laneer, which is home to several drownings every year.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Yeah, a lot of bad stuff goes down there. A
lot of it is drinking and driving boats.
Speaker 3 (49:18):
Though, right, yeah, don't that's a huge part.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
You can do that.
Speaker 3 (49:20):
Don't think a boat is still a car, guys, it's
still a motor vehicle. Don't drink and drive a boat
or a vote. Check out our earlier episode on what
was it called the cooping.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
Cooping is where you get no, you get people drunk
and then you unleash them on the poles, right yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
Yeah, don't do that one either, But well no.
Speaker 4 (49:42):
Way, isn't it like you, Yeah, you forced them to
vote for your guy, yes, yeah, yeah, by getting them
intoxicated and potentially even like physically.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
Assaulting them, yeah, and putting them in disguises. That was
a wild ride. It's again, it's a tragedy because it
is a tragedy compound given Tafari Campbell's passed as a
White House chef, and given his close association with a
former first family, as well as the fact that a
(50:10):
few years beforehand, another chef had drowned, people started asking questions.
They were saying, were both of these really just tragic
accidents with dark commonalities based in coincidence? Was there something
more to either case? Could they be connected?
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Does it remind you it's oh god, I'm not saying
this is connected. I'm not trying to start a conspiracy theory,
but it does remind me a tiny bit of chap equitic.
Not the same, not the same, but it does remind
me a little bit. Kennedy killed prepecnee, Yeah, but just
a drowning, yeah, on a compound being used by presidents
(50:53):
or you know that kind of thing. And this one,
the Campbell one, feels weird to me.
Speaker 3 (50:57):
Yeah, especially given the efficacy of drought as an assassination method. Folks,
Before we go any further crucial caveat, we want to
acknowledge the losses of the families here. You can never
replace a loved one, Especially in the days of Internet
trolls and social media, it can be so hurtful for
(51:17):
friends and family to encounter these unfounded accusations allegations, et cetera.
It's particularly cold when those deaths become weaponized by what
we will call fringe actors. But there's there's a lot
more to this story. Like I one personal thing I've
run into in the past. Chefs as diplomats or chefs
(51:43):
as vectors of information. You know a lot of weirdly
polyglottic chefs. You speak seven languages and you're just oh,
you just occasionally do a little hobachi for the ambassador
from Denmark when they happen to be negotiating with Greenland
with the US in Greenland. Any staff working at this
(52:06):
level of power has to be vetted for a reason,
because when you're a world leader, your the size of
your professional sphere explodes, but your private sphere grows a
lot smaller. Like Drake used to say, no new friends,
So who can you trust? You know, I'm the President
of the United States. I don't know if I can
(52:29):
talk off the cuff with my former college buddies. What
I say about Russia and public might be a lot
different from what I say to my favorite chef Cookie
at three in the morning, because I can't sleep and
I just want a hot dog, and I got some
stuff on my mind, you know what I mean, there's
a lot of power in that.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
You have some dogs.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
You've got some hot dogs in a bull Sorry, so
we're obviously we're not saying the KGB turned any White
House staffers in the double O seven style Kingsman style
hit man. But it's not impossible to get info from
(53:09):
these people, and they might not even know what they're
given away. You know, you can just be privy to
sensitive information. It's that guys. It's that old movie trope
where someone is saying, you know, mister Prime minister, mister
President or your highness or whatever, this is secret information,
and then whomever the person in power is, they turn around,
(53:31):
they go, ah, it's just Jeremy. He's fine anyway. Jeremy's
cool man, Tap me up. Anyway, What were you saying
about this patriot deployment? This guy makes great hot talks.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
By the way, oh I bet homemade hot dogs. Let's
talk really quickly about why a chef at that level
might speak five languages or somewhat speak seven, almost a
little bit seven languages, right? Why is that a lot
of chefs that reach this level study broad in different
countries with chefs of high level, the higher level than
(54:04):
them at the moment that they are now studying in Japan,
let's say, or South Korea are now in France or
Germany or wherever. So it is a that is a
fairly common thing. Or working in a kitchen with someone
who primarily speaks Spanish, but you learn some of that
language to be able to effectively communicate with your with
people you're working with. That kitchens end up being a
(54:27):
melting pot in a lot of different ways.
Speaker 3 (54:29):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
So I do think that when we're thinking critically about
all this stuff, right, it doesn't necessarily mean their spies
because they speak seven languages, but that is a helpful
thing if you wanted to be a spy.
Speaker 3 (54:42):
And they also don't have to know their spies, they
could just be able to give information. Also, yeah, not
all Mormon missionaries end up working for the CIA, but
there's a reason the CIA loves them as draft picks.
So this is this is all the stuff. What we're
saying is these are realities. That makes it easy to
(55:04):
understand why some people immediately search for a conspiracy with
these two deaths, even if we don't personally agree with
that perspective. It is understandable that there would be a
wave of conspiracy theories about Campbell that hit social media.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Yeah, there were many. There's many a story written on
the primary media outlets about the number of conspiracy theories
showing up. Often they would focus in on, gosh, what
your is this twenty twenty three when Tafari Campbell tied,
so that this is when x X had already become
a thing, right in twenty three or is that wrong? Yeah,
(55:43):
you're correct, Okay, correct, because in my head it was Twitter,
but I think it is x where that is the
place to me bro Well, that's the place the primary
media would point to and say, hey, look at these
crazy people on x saying crazy things. But really, what
folks would be looking at. Often, at least from my
experience and I think our experience, TikTok, Instagram reels, those
(56:06):
short videos that you just scroll through, those things will
get filled almost immediately after something like this with real
human beings putting things out there. Hey, guys, I'm kind
of what we're doing today, but not the same thing.
I'm just saying, it's kind of weird. What about this?
Seems like maybe they were eating babies? You're like, oh crap, what.
Speaker 4 (56:27):
Often with a piece of footage in the background with
like a circle around something, you know, damn me. It
is the ultimate Charlie Day red threadboard situation.
Speaker 3 (56:35):
Yeah. Oh, and it's always now in this format, it's
on short form video. It's always the face down here
like this in the lower part. And then yeah, and
there's something playing in the back, like you said, and
they're just like.
Speaker 2 (56:48):
And they've got a little mic that they're talking to. Look,
it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (56:53):
Now.
Speaker 4 (56:53):
Now, let me just say Devil's advocate. Sometimes they're pretty
convincing and they give me some stuff to look into,
give us some stuff to look into, and you yeah,
you know, do your homework.
Speaker 3 (57:01):
We got to do it here.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
Now, they just they just do a lot of that
where they get a very bottom and they point at things.
Speaker 4 (57:07):
Oh yeah, yes, yes, oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (57:10):
Right. And as you were saying, no, we're not invalidating
the genre because it can be useful.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
As we've made the point before, anyone can say anything
on these platforms, which is great and horrifying. Yes, yeah,
because it becomes an echo chamber often and then it
will show up on the conspiracy subredd in a bunch
of other places then it shows up in other places,
and quite often things are unfounded, and then folks will
get discouraged when our show doesn't say, oh, yeah, they're
(57:45):
eating humans, right, because it seems so ubiquitous and it
seems so clear because of the sheer number of videos
out there, Oh, the White House eats babies and kids
and humans, and that's why these chefs had to die.
And if enough people are saying it and we don't
say it, then they're like, oh.
Speaker 3 (58:02):
You consensus reality.
Speaker 4 (58:05):
Yeah, guys, I don't know, hot take. I just feel
like if they were eating babies, they wouldn't be getting
the White House staff to prepare them. Yeah, it'd be
some Yeah.
Speaker 3 (58:12):
Yeah, that's that's the thing. Can we can we go
to just for an example of what we're setting up?
Can we go to a guy named Ian Miles Chong? Please? Yeah? Okay,
it's it's uh Twitter if you're faithful or X if
you're weird. Actually everything out July twenty fourth, twenty twenty three.
Chong is part of this massive wave of people who
(58:35):
are most but not all, right wing, prominent accounts who
are arguing conspiracy. Here in Chong's post, we see the
text the death of Obama's personal chef, Tafari Campbell, a
trained swimmer who drowned in a shallow pond outside the
Obama family home. Wild paddle boarding is strange. What do
(58:59):
you you think, really? Hapenn't And then there's a clip
and it's very much like I'm just asking questions. This
has nothing. This has nothing to do with the fact
that I went double down hard on birth certificate conspiracies
and George W. Bush conspiracies. This is different and I
am trustworthy, incredible.
Speaker 2 (59:21):
It just sucks because that is essentially what we've already
done in this episode.
Speaker 3 (59:25):
But it's a good question because strong is correct. By
the way, folks, Campbell was indeed an experienced swimmer, But
there were also people who so a lot of responses
to this one. There were people who replied and said, hey,
I live in the area, like I live in Martha's vineyard,
and even if you're an experienced swimmer, it is easy
(59:47):
to get stuck in the mud at the bottom of
the pond. You can get pulled in and you might
not have the arm strength to pull yourself out. And
then of course there were the folks who were like,
definitely and also my other conspiracy. It's me, Liz Krackin.
I think Campbell was murdered because quote Tafari Campbell isn't
(01:00:10):
the only person died inexplicably in Obama's orbit. Did you
know that the woman who verified the authenticity of Obama's
birth certificate, Loretta Fuddy, was the only person to die
in a plane crash in Hawaii in twenty thirteen. Every
time I survived.
Speaker 4 (01:00:26):
Come on, oh okay, sorry, I understand a particular plane crash,
he was the only one to die. It would have
been funny, extra funny if she was saying that she's
the only person that died in a plane crash.
Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
Yeah, it's true that Loretta Fuddy did die in a
light aircraft crash. Authority said it was catastrophic engine failure.
But what we see here again is the game of
conspiratorial telephone. Someone is taking a question and they're taking
there like Krackin is a very big QAnon enthusiast right.
Speaker 4 (01:00:58):
There, cherry picking a working in reverse to get to
the conclusion that they would enjoy.
Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
Yeah, but it's still like, Loretta Fuddy died in a
light aircraft crash, and we've seen how light aircraft crashes
can function.
Speaker 4 (01:01:14):
Yeah, well it's not. It's not the first time that
that's flown just around in terms of like the potential
conspiracy surrounding the deaths of prominent individuals or government officials,
et cetera. Just like why the drowning thing seems like
such a good cover, especially in that first case we
(01:01:36):
mentioned where the water was so cold they couldn't even
tell when the time of death was. And like all
of the things that happens, you know, drowning just kind
of leaves no trace, has a tendency to wash away
any physical evidence and all that, and there's a good
cover story of like you know, they got swept up
in the riptide or the flash floods, or caught his
foot in the mud, drowned in a puddle.
Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
These are great points because folks, if you are not
worry about someone finding the body, drowning can actually be
a fairly effective form of assassination. And that's not us
saying it, that's history saying it. Because to Knowl's point,
if it's a body of moving water, it can carry
(01:02:18):
the remains. It can also do a lot of forensic
removal for you. Right, So when you are conducting an autopsy.
Something that could be purposeful drowning can sometimes look like
accidental drowning.
Speaker 4 (01:02:36):
There's no escape pension, not to mention if there's crabs, you.
Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Know, Yeah, see the Chattahoochee River in the Atlanta missing
and murdered case. Just we talked about it a lot.
Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
Yeah, and then you know, we have to be fair.
At no point from the first death to now, as
we record August seventh, has either investigation or any investigation
by any official law enforcement outfit found any evidence contradicting
those conclusions of death by accidental drowning. So the question
(01:03:14):
then becomes is there something in common? Is there a connection?
Is it just that both people worked for one of
the most prestigious places on the planet and then died
in a similar way? Or does the story go deeper?
Speaker 4 (01:03:31):
Eight feed deep?
Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
Hmm, Here's why I mentioned the Epstein files. What of
the jerky of it all? Guys?
Speaker 4 (01:03:38):
Do we recall this?
Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Do we recall the beef jerky?
Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (01:03:44):
Human everybody.
Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
Everybody wanted Epstein's jerky for some reason, and they needed
more jerky.
Speaker 4 (01:03:50):
Because it fortified them.
Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Yes, Look, I know that that doesn't mean human meat.
It means it's weird that people were so in to
Jeffrey Epstein's jerky and how he got it and how
he procured it and got it produced and the guy
from it. Yeah, and what was the what was that
restaurant the chef that made the jerky allegedly? Do you
(01:04:14):
remember this?
Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
Oh? Right, do you remember this?
Speaker 4 (01:04:17):
No, you're talking about I don't remember the name of
the restaurant. In fact, this is the first time. Maybe
I'm curtain, but we talked about it. I just don't
remember the jerky talk. Sorry, Yeah, I brought it to you,
brought it to me. I brought the jerky talk you
brought yes, Well, yeah, you know, we talk about a
lot of things, guys. I'm sorry, jerky talk flew around.
Speaker 3 (01:04:35):
Where are we going with this one?
Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
That?
Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Where do you want to go?
Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
You can see why there are so many rumors that
float around about potentially, you know, these these darker things
that have existed forever, right, They that start in a
lot of different places, sometimes in anti Semitism, sometimes in fear,
sometimes in a classist kind of struggle against these royalty
(01:04:57):
that have feasts and these kinds of things. Room about
what these people could be getting up to, right, and
fears about what it might be, and also caricatures, because
it's almost getting back at the people that that do
in real ways control your life or at least hold
sway over you. These rumors of no, they eat people,
they drink blood that you know, this kind of thing
(01:05:20):
these persists in. They're out there and they have been
for a long time. It is weird to see them
now filtered through the Epstein files, with things like jerky
that have actual some like celebrity chefs that are attached
to the name that do appear fishy and strange. But
(01:05:40):
it doesn't mean they have anything to do with the
deaths of these two people we've been talking about today.
It just means that that stuff is out there right now,
and it's getting harder and harder to figure out what's
true and what's not. And that's all I have to say.
Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
Okay, oh, okay, okay, all right. And at this point, folks,
investigations into both of these cases have been closed. Much
of the conspiratorial chatter has faded away. But for the
true believers, there is still stuff they don't want you
to know. We want to know your thoughts again. Our
thoughts are with the friends and families of these people
(01:06:15):
who tragically passed away. Thank you so much for tuning in.
What do you make of these deaths? Do you think
one or both are suspicious? Or is this another case
of people trying to put patterns where there aren't any.
We can't wait to hear from you. There are many
ways to find us online, and.
Speaker 4 (01:06:33):
If you want to get in touch with us, you
can do so by reaching out to the handles Conspiracy
Stuff or Conspiracy Stuff Show where we exist on the internet.
Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
Our phone number is one eight three three std WYTK.
When you call in, tell us your thoughts on I
believe his name was Francis Derby. I think that was
the guy that we talked about with the jerky in
the Epstein files, Derby Jerky, something about that. I think
that's what it was. God, remember, I can't get a
bit Cannibal parts. The name of the restaurant was Cannibal.
Speaker 4 (01:07:02):
No it was not. Yes, No, you've told us about this, Matt,
I don't remember. I think you're mistaken. I have no
recollection of Cannibal the Jerky restaurant. That's too good. I
just I would think that I'm not I'm not saying
that I didn't. I'm just saying I'm shocked that I
(01:07:23):
have no recollection of that, because that is quite on
the nose.
Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
Well, you know what, call us in and tell us
if you have recollection of that. Uh, it's really simple
to voicemail system. You'll figure it out. Hey, you can
contact us by email.
Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
We are the entities the read each piece of correspondence
we receive. Be well aware yet to ut afraid. Sometimes
the void writes back, and actually is writing back to
several of us as we record this evening. So find
us out here in the dark. Give us your favorite
random fact. We'll give you one in return. Conspiracy at
iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
Stuff they Don't Want you to Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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