September 18, 2026 • 45 mins
Let's be honest: most Americans aren't super familiar with Greenland, and even fewer have actually traveled there. Located far north in the Arctic, the world's largest island has historically been seen as remote, inaccessible, and brutal. So a ton of people were surprised when the United States asked -- then threatened -- to take it over. In the first chapter of this special two-part episode, Ben and Matt explore why Greenland has suddenly become the hottest real estate on the planet... and whether there's a conspiracy afoot.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello. Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Our colleague Noel is on an adventure, but we'll be
returning shortly.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
They call me Ben. We're joined, as always, with our
super producer, Dylan, the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you
are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff
they don't want you to know. Folks, we're traveling around
the world today. We are going to a little place
(00:53):
named Kala'it Nonat. which is the awkward pronunciation of the
real name for a place we call Greenland.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
That's right. Around these parts, they call it Cattle of
Leighton and Nott. They're just putting a little southern twang
on it. Sounds good, I think.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yeah, yeah, I think so too, Matt. And Dylan is
going to be hopping on the mic on and off
with us for this show because you guys... busted me
so hard for doing an East Tennessee accent of a
pretend Greenlander.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Oh, yes. That was very fun.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Well, it's weird too, man, because look, facts are facts.
Most Americans don't think of Greenland too often, at least
not until recent events or maybe World War II. We
all heard the whole story, the saga about Eric the Red.
and his weird PR marketing campaign that created the name
(01:56):
Greenlands we use today. But other than that, I think
it's fair to say a lot of us are pretty
unfamiliar with this stretch of volcanic activity. frozen ground i
mean look at the mercator projections most people don't really
know how uh right exactly oh i've got.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
One of those as well trying to try to use
my hand there it is that giant thing right there
yeah oh god wait hold it hold it yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
There it is yeah so the mercator projection makes this
thing uh look misleading one way or another in its
size People learn about it in grade school in the West.
You learn about it definitely if you're a school kid
in Denmark. But it came as a surprise to a
(02:43):
lot of current Americans when our existing president, Donald J. Trump,
came out a while back and said, why don't we
just take over Greenland? And everybody said, what is wrong
with you? And then he doubled down on his original statement.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
That was back in January, right? When was the Venezuela invasion?
Was that this year or last year? God, I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
It moved so quickly.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
It was, I think, the very, very beginning of the year.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Okay. So around the same time, I think everybody was like,
take Greenland, man, that's crazy. We can dismiss that as
just a statement, right? And then we did that thing
we did to Venezuela, and I think everybody went, oh, crap.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Right. Right. Like, there is an irrational actor. say, a
lot of other world powers. So tonight's question, what the
heck is going on here, folks? Is Uncle Sam and
the current president, are they serious? If so, why does
the United States want Greenland in the first place? We'll
(03:48):
be back after a word from our sponsors. Here are
the facts. Join us in, like, a grade school... high
school introductory course. Let's learn about Greenland. Matt, you and
I are big fans of maps and we've got a bunch.
(04:13):
It's funny because, you know, you and I have the
same map. I have one out of frame here by
the skeleton.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Just past Agent Scully. There is a map. There be maps. Well,
speaking of those, we've One of the coolest ones you
can get, and I do not have one anywhere in
this layer right now, but an Arctic Circle map is
one of the coolest ones you can find. And this is,
imagine looking at a globe, but just top down on
(04:42):
the top of that globe and looking at the North
Pole as your center and then all of the land
masses and ice that surrounds that area and especially the waterways.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
The waterways.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And you get to, there's one that's posted on Britannica.com.
If you just look for Greenland over there.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
This is precisely what we're talking about here. And there's
one on Britannica that shows all of the military bases
that are in this entire area. And it's actually at
a different angle. It's got Greenland kind of on the,
I guess it would be in the Southwest side of
the map, Ben. And it's, got basically in red, of
(05:25):
course they chose red, all of the Russian bases on
the side there. And then it's got, you know, just
a couple of the bases on the left side that
are US. Some of them are, what is this? Canadian.
A couple of them, there's like one Iceland base and,
two Greenland bases that are both controlled by the U.S.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, yeah, that's the badger in the bag here. If
you're looking at this map that we're keeping up, you
will see that Greenland is huge. It is, in fact,
the world's largest island that is not a continent. Sorry, Australia,
you didn't make weight, so now you're heavy. You're a continent.
(06:07):
It looks pretty foreboding, right, if we take a gander
at these maps of, the Atlantic Ocean, or as you
were saying, Matt, especially the Arctic Circle. So in this
map here, you can see, we can all see that
dotted ring. That is what we would call the Arctic Circle.
Greenland is riddled with glaciers. Even now, its northernmost extensions
(06:33):
are just like less than 500 miles from the North Pole.
So when Santa Claus has to make a quick run
to the gas station. He probably stops by there.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Oh yeah, for sure. I bet there's all kinds of
wonderful little trinkets and extra things that he picks up
every year too. Just stuff that you can't get anywhere else,
you know?
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, it's like July and he's got his baseball cap
on and he's saying, hey, nobody identify me in public. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Well, another thing to remember when you're looking at, if
you look at that map of the is that even
in the parts where there's not land, there's quite a
bit of ice on account of it being so cold
up there. And, you know, there, well, we're going to
talk about it later in this, but one of the
major things that's happening right now and has been happening
(07:24):
for years is this thing called climate change, where it's
warming up a bit and quite a bit of that
ice is melting in places that are being used strategically
for travel throughout this whole area.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, shipping lanes. Yeah, for sure. And then access to, well,
we'll get into it for sure. We've been thinking about
this one for a long time, folks, even back to
years ago when we did an episode called, let me
get it, The Race to the Arctic, Who Will Control
the Poles? You remember that one?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Man.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Wow. Yeah, this does have a lot in common with
that one. Because the same themes are at play, right?
Anytime a, let's say a Navy force, no matter what
it is, can have ease of access and movement anywhere
throughout the world. What did you call them, Ben? A
blue water Navy?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
A blue water Navy.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Where you can just go wherever you want as long
as you can physically go there, right?
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yes. As long as you can project that force and
convince other people this is for exploration or scientific enterprise,
you know, Hey guys, I'm invading your sovereign waters for
all of us, like for the general effort. Okay. So
why are you being weird?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
So research vessels off the Sinai peninsula wink. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah. Oh, this guy hates dolphins. Sorry. So, uh, we
also know that Greenland has ancient evidence of human habitations.
2500 BCE onward, the issue is a lot of cultures
came and went because they were living pretty challenging lives.
(09:13):
This is an environment that will kill you if you
are unprepared.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah. That type of lack of heat that is just
unrelenting and scarce food sources, man, it is not fun.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
No, no, no. But people still tried to pitch it.
The name that we respect the most is, of course,
Ka'alalit Nunat, which just means land of the Ka'alalit, one
of the most influential indigenous cultures to exist there, which
persists in the modern day. But the reason we call
(09:53):
it Greenland now dates back to 986 CE. There's this guy.
You may have heard of him. I don't know if
we can afford a sound cue. They call him Eric
the Red. Oh, Eric Therese.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And then everybody afterwards seems to have the name Frederick
in their name. Have you noticed that, Ben?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I've noticed, but I'm glad you brought it up first.
I didn't want to call you out.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I don't know why we Fredericks chose to do that,
but that's a thing.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, right. Maybe it's like how Ben in many languages
means son of. Maybe Fred Eric means like Benja Amin.
you know, like son of Eric. Probably not.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Well, you know, you can't have Frederick without Red. So
maybe it was Eric's fault.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Maybe it was Eric's fault and his phenomenal love of anagrams.
So this guy, Eric, according to the Icelandic sagas, which
lay somewhere between fiction and oral history, in these Icelandic sagas,
Eric and his old man, his paterfamilias, they're exiled from Iceland,
(11:12):
which is just sort of to the east of Greenland.
And they're exiled for the crime of manslaughter. So they
get a group of 14 boats with all their extended
families and their thralls, modern word, slaves, and they light
out west. And so the story goes that Eric the
(11:33):
Red apparently named this place Greenland when he was one
of the first Viking forces to land there permanently. And
he said, hey, if we call it Greenland, the word
gets around, more people will come here. It's a cool story.
It's very Field of Dreams. But again, given the age
of these recollections, it's difficult to verify how true that
(11:58):
story is.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Absolutely. I think it's worth noting here, guys, just... some
of those minor differences between Greenland and Iceland and just
this concept of being exiled to Iceland only to return
back to Greenland, especially when we think about what we
know about these two places. Haven't you guys been to Iceland,
both you and Dylan?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Dylan, Tennessee, have you been to Iceland?
Speaker 3 (12:22):
I have not. I think Paul had been to Iceland.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Oh, Paul, Mission Control.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I'm so sorry, Dylan.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
A longtime friend of the show, Paul, Mission Control, Deccant, uh,
did journey to Iceland while we were working together and
he loved everything but the food. No offense.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Well, this, this is just to say that of what
I know of Iceland, I've seen many a picture, been
a bit obsessed with some of the musicians from there,
seen many a music video that's been created and like
kind of a travel YouTube documentary thing. It looks like
a gorgeous place. It looks like in areas quite an
inhospitable place, but in a lot of other places there
(13:02):
on Iceland, it's a great place to live as a
human being. I'm imagining arriving there to those lands and
then choosing to get back on those ships, Ben, and
then go across that icy water again, that freezing cold water,
to get back to the place that we know is
so dangerous and so rough. Man, it's a wonder that
(13:25):
that even occurred. And I guess it makes sense that
they created a saga out of it. And if it
truly did happen, right, then I imagine anyone who wanted
to be there would be kind of an astounding person,
a tough person.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
But then trying to get everybody else to come, you know,
as some kind of marketing campaign, as you're saying that
Raritha Red was doing, like.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Hey, you're going to love it. It's me, your buddy,
Big E.R. Yeah, it's interesting because the settlements that we
knew the Vikings created are on sort of the western side,
southwestern side, right? Where the glaciers had not completely overtaken
(14:12):
everything or where they had retreated, which will be a
common theme in tonight's exploration. It's also, the story just
gets weirder, you guys, because Denmark colonizes Greenland in the 1700s.
Denmark was and is still technically a kingdom OK, and
(14:34):
Greenland is in such a strange liminal space, a phrase
we don't try to overuse, but it's it's an autonomous
territory under the rule of the kingdom of Denmark. So
it is not sovereign. Instead, since 1982, when it gained
home rule, Greenland runs all its own domestic affairs. They've
(14:57):
got their own prime minister. They are dictating what happens
on their land or in their waters. Meanwhile, Denmark takes
care of foreign policy, defense, pretty much everything outside of Greenland.
And that kind of makes sense because This place is vast. Again,
(15:20):
it's the world's largest island. But get this, folks. The population,
so far as we know, hovers around 56,000 people. That's it.
And their population is declining. They've got a lot of
brain drain. They've got a lot of people leaving. They've
got a sharp decline in reproduction. So just 56,000 people
(15:44):
on this vast swath of land.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
It's like a small college town in America.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
It very much is, yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, but then spread, just spread, you know, out pretty far,
especially along that western coast that you're talking about there, Ben.
I wonder if we could just go back to history
a little bit when it comes to the World Wars
and the Cold War of it. Like right before, what
did you say, Ben, 1982 is that kind of mark
that we're putting there when it comes to? when Greenland
(16:15):
is running itself, for the most part, it did change
hands a couple of different times throughout the World Wars.
Just to put it in there, so if you do
want to look it up and check out this stuff,
because it becomes interesting, Ben, I think when you think
about the strategic location of it and how Greenland has
(16:37):
in the past been used and kind of, I would say... occupied,
especially by U.S. forces, for reasons of strategy. Just looking
at World War II and, you know, again, according to
just Britannica and a couple other places that just look
at the history, Denmark was occupied by Nazi Germany and
(16:59):
then the United States ended up assuming responsibility temporarily for
Greenland's defense. And that's how you end up getting to
these two primary bases that are on Greenland that the U.S. controls,
that the U.S. still controls, that like they're still, they're cool. Like, yeah,
you guys can have control over here. Because the U.S.
(17:21):
in the past did attempt to make some moves, right,
to control Greenland more. But then Greenland said, no, we're
not doing that. But you can like expand your bases.
That's fine. It's just strange to me. And it comes
back to the Strait of Hormuz discussions we've had, Ben.
It goes back to a lot of these choke points
(17:41):
on the sea, on the oceans. With that, what is
it called, the GI-UK gap?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
That would be the Greenland-Iceland gap.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Well, it's just another place where if you have a
powerful navy, you want to be able to secure ingress
and egress safely. you know, between basically around Iceland, on
either side of Iceland, between the UK and Iceland, and
then between Greenland and Iceland.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
You want to own the door, right?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And that's a huge part of this larger historical tapestry.
And we know, like we were teasing at the top,
that climate change is skyrocketing by any metric. That conspiracy
is real. It's happening. Welcome to 30 years from now
when you're fighting for water. Maybe 10. Anyway, Greenland has
(18:34):
acquired this new position of increasing significance. At least the
public thinks it. But as you were saying, Matt, there's
a lot of story behind it. If you look at
good folks like Harvard Kennedy School or the CFR, Council
on Foreign Relations, they will tell you what we just said.
Greenland's location makes it perfect for things like early missile
(18:59):
warning systems. that's vital to military defense. And additionally, if
you control Greenland in practice, kind of like playing the
game of risk, how control of the country of Siam
lets you run Australia, control of Greenland lets you run
those northern sea lanes, those gaps. It also gives you
(19:22):
access to rare earth minerals that are only increasing in value.
That's what we call foreshadowing. Stay tuned. On paper, though,
this is great for Greenland and Denmark.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, it really is. The thing I was trying to remember, Ben,
was that Harry Truman, another president, tried to buy Greenland unsuccessfully.
And that's where you get some of these strategic places
we're talking about. Correct me if I'm wrong here. I
think it's called the Pitufik Space Base. I think that's
the one that currently exists.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah. I can't wait to get to it.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Oh, okay. Well, it used to be the Thule Base.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
And it became a big part of this whole deal-making
that the U.S. and Greenland got into right after World
War II.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
A hundred percent, yeah. And again, there's so much precedent.
In practice, people in Greenland and Denmark are very worried
right now, understandably so. It is not as if Greenland's
importance has ever been a secret, right, since the days
of Eric the Red. Quite the opposite. And other countries
(20:32):
have often wanted in on the game, on the real estate,
The most notable of these countries being right now, as
you've probably heard, the United States. So our question then becomes,
Matt in Tennessee, what gives? Sorry, I'm beating Andy Rooney
in 60 minutes. What's the deal? What gives? With all
these recent headlines from the current U.S. president about making
(20:56):
Greenland somehow part of the United States, are these just
like off-the-wall, three coffees deep comments? Will they result in action?
Would Uncle Sam ever actually invade Greenland?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And why would they do that if they've already got
bases on the place?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
We'll be right back. Here's where it gets crazy. Also,
shout out to this Illumination Global Unlimited hat. Oh, yeah.
It sounds, Matt Dillon, it sounds bonkers crazy. But it
is absolutely true. Since 2025, the second Trump administration has
(21:41):
been sending public signals about invading or annexing Greenland. But
most people forget these are renewed public signals. A lot
of people, guys, you know, Dylan, if you could tell
Matt and myself how you first reacted to this news,
I think a fair number of people in the United
(22:03):
States are decided to ignore the statement or just to
make fun of it. This is the same guy who
earlier off the cuff said, yeah, what if we nuke
a hurricane?
Speaker 4 (22:13):
I just, I feel like it, I didn't take it
seriously at first, but then it became a pattern. I mean,
this was pre Venezuela and then Canada and he hasn't
really given up on Greenland. So, and also rumblings about Cuba.
I mean, at some point you start taking it seriously.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah. And it makes you scratch your head even more,
I think. Ben, there's a thing I'm thinking about our
race to the Arctic episode now. We're thinking about his words,
the President's words on Greenland. And I'm remembering in that episode,
we talked about the moves Russia has been making in
(22:55):
the Arctic Circle area for a long time. And I
was thinking about the U.S. and our with the Middle
East from about 2002 up until even now and how we,
you know, we as a country, our naval forces, all
of our, most of our forces are so interested in
this one area of the world while Russia is really
(23:19):
focusing a lot of their efforts in this Arctic Circle.
And it's almost as though, or it feels maybe, like
the U.S. is aware it needs to play some catch
up in this realm.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Maybe you, yeah, you play the catch up or you
get the mustard, right? So I'm sure that's going to
translate very well.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
But what of the mayo, Ben?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
But what of the mayo, Matt? You didn't think about
the mayo. So this, this is true. You know, this
is one of the most powerful guys on the planet, right?
One of the, one of the people who can command the,
world-ending nuclear weapons. And so if you are another world
(24:04):
leader or you're a business tycoon, you pay attention to
everything this guy says, no matter how silly it might seem.
Like we were lightly roasting, we were brazing Vladimir Putin
over wanting to live forever. And at the same time,
you remember, Matt, at the very top, we all had
to acknowledge that that everybody pays attention to every wackadoo
(24:28):
thing that guy says. So like Trump appears to be serious.
President Trump appears to have doubled down. He's triggered an
international diplomatic crisis. It's happening now because he was asked,
he was asked about, we'll jump around in time, but multiple,
at multiple instances, he was asked about whether he would
(24:52):
use military force to invade Greenland, which is under Denmark,
which is part of NATO. And he routinely refused to
rule it out. He was like, you know, anything's on
the table. He at first, he at first, in this
iteration of his administration, he at first went to Denmark
(25:14):
and said, can I just have it? Yeah. He just
passed the ball. Gimme. Gimme. And they said no, by
the way. Spoiler. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah. Just like they did when Truman asked for it.
Truman at least said, I'll pay you.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
He tried to buy it. Yeah. And then when, and
it is funny because Trump did the same thing in
his first administration. He tried to buy, to purchase Greenland.
Denmark said no. So he came back and was like, okay,
I think I get it. you guys just want to
give it to me, right? Now that I'm president again,
like you don't want money between friends. And they said no.
(25:55):
And then he came forward to, and the rest of
the EU, by the way, also said, what is wrong
with your boy? And he then responded by threatening to
hit multiple European countries with a 25% import tax. Cough, cough. Dude. Tariffs.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah. You get a tariff. You get a tariff. I
don't like you. More tariffs. Really interesting situation. Ben, here's
where we get to the Fredericks of it all. Jens
Frederick Nielsen.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Ah, yes, the prime minister of Greenland.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Oh, yes.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Got a quick little quote here in one of the
rejections of the whole pitch idea of taking Greenland or
buying it or whatever. Here you go. And this is
translated to English, by the way. So here we go.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Quote.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
No more pressure, no more hints, no more fantasies about annexation.
When the president of the United States talks about, quote,
we need Greenland, unquote, and connects us with Venezuela and
military intervention, it's not just wrong. It's so disrespectful. We
are a part of NATO and we are fully aware
of our country's strategic location.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
That's part of why that guy is prime minister. He's
very well-reasoned. He knows what he's talking about. He's an expert.
And we, like the rest of the world now, have
to figure out why the U.S. presidential administration, I'm being fair,
a system, not an individual, wants Greenland, quote unquote, why
(27:31):
they want it in a specific way. And the history
that we've already teased, the real estate is terrible if
you are in an individual human basis. But if you
are a country, that real estate is cat bird seat,
you know, the world powers, Ooh, they want that Arctic.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Uh, you got those military budgets and contracts for what
have we, Oh, what is the thing?
Speaker 1 (27:56):
A sack.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
A single construction contract thing. The stuff we could build.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
The stuff we could build. The U.S. is super concerned
about Russia controlling the area. This is a valid concern,
by the way, because breaking up the ice around the
North Pole makes all that formerly not great real estate
(28:25):
to the north of Russia It makes it amazing. Now
we can build bases. Now we can have ports that
are maybe all year round ports. We can also fix
up our infrastructure to transport minerals. And China, the nation
of China, which does not share a land border with
(28:46):
the Arctic Circle, they're also super interested in it. Sending
around some subs to do some, you know, looky-loos, just
checking out for science kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
And there were, I don't know how deep we're going
to get into it today, Ben, but there were multiple
major investments by China in Greenland and in specific projects
that ended up getting squashed and not moving forward. Like
they got canceled because of pressure from the U S.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
And because of environmental concerns from the government of Greenland,
they got bureaucratically stonewalled as well. Uh, and we'll see
that applies to a lot of things.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I think, uh, Dude, whenever that happens, Ben, I always
think if that is the maneuver, the excuse for some
other geopolitical actor to step in and say, oh, it's
the environmentals. It's not going to work on the environmentals, guys.
so but really there's somebody with a gun in the
office next door and just be like they better say.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
No 100% and I love it Matt because you're doing
such great boardroom talk the environmentals we love the creative
we're concerned about the environmentals so the Trump is beautiful
the Trump administration has also, with validity, to be fair,
(30:05):
they have raised warnings about Russian and Chinese hegemony, really,
in Greenland, in the North Pole. And they paint it
or embellish it in these scary terms. They're saying, Greenland,
without us, will be surrounded by Russian and Chinese vessels.
Look what's happening in the South China Sea.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Right. And that's true. China's being kind of a dick
out there. But Donald Trump, the current U.S. president, also
argues that Denmark does not have the ability to defend
Greenland from these dystopian incursions. The implication being that if
the United States does not control the world's largest island,
(30:50):
then Russia or China, by hook or by crook, eventually will.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
I was going to try and point out Denmark on
this map over here, but I don't think.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
No, you're close.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
You're close.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
It's like pretty close. I'm going to Sweden. Going up
near Sweden.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Oh, this is hard. It's looking like Canada. We're on
different viewpoints.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Well, like, okay. If you go, it's not going to
work with me being able to do this way.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
I'm not a weatherman. Okay. I don't know how they
figured how to do that thing.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
That's a skill set. That's pretty cool, right? The green
screen thing.
Speaker 5 (31:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
But you can look up Denmark. It's very tiny and
it is hidden. It's basically hidden over here. It's just
below Norway and Sweden. You'll find it.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
You'll find it. It's, it's, uh, it's got a wonderful
culture and we can't wait to hang out there. And
just so you know, before you travel in person on average,
they are very tall. So yes. Yeah. So work on
your charisma. Uh, this, I love that you mentioned earlier, Matt,
(31:54):
this historic thing that escapes so many people. Like Truman
before him, during the first Trump administration, the president tried
to buy Greenland, and the U.S. has loved Greenland all
the way back to World War II through the Cold War.
This is not a new crisis. This is an escalation
(32:16):
of an existing pattern, but it's a dangerous escalation still.
I mean, it would be like Noel saying, I want
Dylan's house. Dylan, give me your house, or I can
maybe buy it.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Or, f * * * it, I'll just take it.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Or I'll just go in.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Oh, man.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
So at this point, folks, we've got a lot of history.
We've got a lot of dope beats to step to geopolitically.
So we need to talk about the fallout, the international reaction, right?
How do... So in this.
In this analogy with Dylan and Noel, Matt, you and
(32:57):
I are the rest of the world. So the first
big hurdle here is that you and I don't own
Dylan's house ourselves. Greenland is not part of the European Union.
Denmark is. Actually, Greenland voted to not be part of
the EU after they got home rule.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
My mortgage is with... Denmark.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Dylan's mortgages with Denmark, which is apparently the two of us,
and you tuning in, and Agent Scully.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
This is getting too complicated. I think we're just going
to have to invade. I'm sorry, Dylan.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Does that mean I don't have to pay my mortgage?
Speaker 1 (33:37):
It does. It does. It should. So we're going to
take stuff from your house, and that'll be the mortgage. Oh, man,
that's too scarily accurate. Well, one thing, folks, one thing
that Matt and Tennessee and I wanted to share with
you is the big concern about U.S. action against Greenland.
(33:59):
If it ever happened, this would mean triggering something that
is very important to NATO. The United States is a
huge funder of NATO. Even now, it's an historic big
boy partner. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization is primarily meant
to stop what they see as an expansionist Soviet Union.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Right?
Speaker 1 (34:21):
And now an expansionist Russia. Russia, to be fair, sees
NATO itself as an expansionist force. These are two crews
that don't get along with each other. And part of
the reason that the NATO thing is such a big
deal is because of something called Article 5, which we
have mentioned often. It reads in part, quote, an armed
(34:44):
attack against one NATO member shall be considered an attack
against all members and triggers an obligation for each member
to come to its assistance. Meaning in short, if you
pop off at one person in our gang, then we
all jump in. So if, uh, if Matt and Dylan
(35:07):
and I are at a house party and then someone, uh,
offends Dylan, right. Offends his dignity or, you know, uh,
Let's say strikes Dylan. Strikes. Well, if someone, God forbid,
strikes Dylan, then Matt and I are obligated to jump
in to the best of our ability. International relations is
(35:32):
always one big house party, a backyard cookout where the
resources are scarce and the people are many. There you
have it. We're going to take a pause for a
word from our sponsors and hopefully we'll get back to you.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Let's take a look at this North Atlantic slash Arctic
Ocean map, the Arctic Circle again, and let's just take
a look at the countries that are NATO and.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
The ones that are not.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
You won't be able to see maybe my cursor on here,
but if you look over here, this is Alaska. You
can probably see Alaska up there in the north.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, sort of at 1130.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
And then it continues all around here with Canada and
then across over here to Greenland, Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland.
So this whole side, it's almost half, almost exactly half.
These are all of the NATO countries over here. And
then on this side, Russia, basically. Isn't that crazy? All
(36:37):
of these countries versus Russia when it comes to who
are we afraid of and what are we defending against?
Speaker 5 (36:43):
Right.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
And we have to wonder about the rationale. Wonder and wander.
Because this issue is, if the U.S., even with the
best of intentions, the most noble of intent, even if
the U.S. invades Greenland for a good reason, will it
trigger Article 5? How does the rest of your gang
(37:07):
handle a betrayal from within? This is a U.S. pulling
a Judas Iscariot for a greater good. I mean, obviously,
it's going to be a great day for Daddy V,
for Daddy Vlad, if NATO disintegrates, right? It's going to
wreak havoc on international relations. We're going to see economic warfare.
(37:28):
We're going to see sanctions, tariffs up the wazoo. You're
probably going to get flight restrictions if you live in
any NATO country to some degree. There are going to
be crazy changes in immigration policy. If you think it's
bad now, folks, just wait. And there's also going to be,
you know, countries pulling out of NATO entirely. I'll take
(37:49):
my ball and go home. There are going to be
countries that want to join NATO that are going to
reconsider it because NATO doesn't look as solid as it
advertised itself to be.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Well, is it any wonder that, you know, some of
the major conflicts that Russia has been getting into deal
specifically with other countries wanting to maybe join NATO? Exactly.
Or being in the process of getting a NATO membership
card so they can do all the things and have,
you know, so NATO's got their back from now on?
(38:23):
You can see this happening back in our discussions with Crimea,
back in our discussions with basic... Even that Arctic episode
we did, all of these, that is one of the
key situations that Russia is grappling with right now. Look
at that map. Everybody on that map is against us
and ready to fight back if we try and do anything.
(38:47):
That's probably a pretty uncomfortable position to be in if
we're using that whole empathy thing, right? Just thinking about
it that way, getting a different perspective. But also, maybe
there's a really good reason That all those countries joined
up and made an organization like this.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
And also, why should we waste blood and treasure fighting
all of them at once when we can get them
to fight themselves? Right? Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Just needle them. Get them to.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Full slice of dice. Well, he said, she said, I
don't know. I don't know, your highness. The prime minister
in Greenland kind of says you're a poop. He said
he called you a poop and I asked him if
it was a translation error, and he said no. He
said you smell weird. Oh, dude.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Let's go back to the Fredericks of it all one
more time, because we've got another prime minister also with
Frederick in the name. This time, the Danish prime minister
met Fredrickson, or Friedrickson. No, it's Frederickson. And it's even
got that ER in it. But all of these have
the ER. What the heck's going on?
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Ellis Island. Yep.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Here's a quote.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
If the U.S. chooses to attack another NATO country militarily,
then everything stops, including NATO, and thus the security that
has been established since the end of the Second World War.
And then she goes on to urge the United States to, quote,
cease its threats against a historically close ally and against
another country and another people who have stated very clearly
(40:20):
that they are not for sale. You know, another prime
minister that feels like they should have that position.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Right. Yeah. And also, folks, if you'll humor us, if
you're watching this episode on Netflix, here is our flawless
interpretation of Vladimir Putin reading that statement.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
With a skeleton behind him.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Yes, yes. If you're listening on an audio platform, check
us out on Netflix. Give us two thumbs up. Let
us screw up your algorithm with you. It goes further, man.
Speaking of prime ministers, let's go to Jonas Garstor. In
January of 2026, there were some leaked texts between the U.S.
(41:11):
president and the prime minister, of Norway, our buddy Jonas.
And in these texts, seriously, they're just like texting each other.
In these texts, the president of the United States of
America said, I don't really have to think about peace
anymore because I didn't get the Nobel Peace Prize. He
(41:33):
specifically said, again, to another world leader in a casual text,
the following. We're not going to do the voice. Considering
your country has decided not to give me the Nobel
Peace Prize for having stopped eight wars, capital, plus, comma,
I no longer feel an obligation to think purely of peace.
(41:59):
So he's like, yeah, you didn't give me what I
wanted earlier, so why should I play reindeer games? There
are a lot of reindeer in Greenland, that's why. Ah.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Everybody just needs to go. I'm doing it again. Get ready.
Go and listen to and watch the Bo Burnham performance
of Art is Dead. And you will see an example
of the person who puts that statement into the world,
either via text, via saying it to someone out loud,
or just having the thought, you didn't give me what
(42:31):
I want, so now I'm going to take it.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Right. And this, in Trump's case, maybe not Burnham's, Maybe
not Bose.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
No, Burnham is illustrating it via.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah. Yeah. He's going by example. I'm saying like in
the president's case, this is a textbook iteration of what
we call brinksmanship in international affairs. That's where you push
a dangerous situation or confrontation to the edge of safety
in hopes of forcing concessions from your opponent or the
(43:01):
other player. It's Dick.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
It's also the, Known as the thing that happens right
before war.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's brinksmanship until it's war, right?
And DPRK is great at it. And folks, we're going
to pause it here. This is chapter one of a
two-part exploration on the United States' strange obsession with Greenland.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
This has been fun, you guys. Gotta say, hit that like. Oh, wait, wait.
What platform are we on?
Speaker 1 (43:33):
We're on a lot of platforms. We're in the back rooms, too.
We're in your back rooms.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Oh, God. I just watched that movie, Ben.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
I loved it. Fans of SCP, you'll get what we're
talking about as well. You can find us on the internet.
You can call us on the phone.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
That's right. We're all over the place on most of
the socials. We're at Conspiracy Stuff. You may find a
few of them where we are at Conspiracy Stuff Show. Hey,
we have a phone number. It is 1-833-STD-WYTK. Call in
with your thoughts, anything you want to say. You got
(44:08):
about three minutes. It's a voicemail system. Give yourself a
cool nickname so we know when you call in next time.
And let us know within the message if we can
use your name and message on one of our listener
mail episodes that show up in the audio feed. Ben,
there's one more exceedingly good way to contact us.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Ah, yes, the Ouija board or the scry or the
mirror in the dark. If you don't have those home,
I've been reading a lot of online recipes. If you
don't have those ingredients handy, you can substitute with an email.
We'll see you out here. Conspiracy at iHeartRadio.com.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know is a production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello. Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Our colleague Noel is on an adventure, but we'll be
returning shortly.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
They call me Ben. We're joined, as always, with our
super producer, Dylan, the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you
are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff
they don't want you to know. Folks, we're traveling around
the world today. We are going to a little place
(00:53):
named Kala'it Nonat. which is the awkward pronunciation of the
real name for a place we call Greenland.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
That's right. Around these parts, they call it Cattle of
Leighton and Nott. They're just putting a little southern twang
on it. Sounds good, I think.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yeah, yeah, I think so too, Matt. And Dylan is
going to be hopping on the mic on and off
with us for this show because you guys... busted me
so hard for doing an East Tennessee accent of a
pretend Greenlander.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Oh, yes. That was very fun.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Well, it's weird too, man, because look, facts are facts.
Most Americans don't think of Greenland too often, at least
not until recent events or maybe World War II. We
all heard the whole story, the saga about Eric the Red.
and his weird PR marketing campaign that created the name
(01:56):
Greenlands we use today. But other than that, I think
it's fair to say a lot of us are pretty
unfamiliar with this stretch of volcanic activity. frozen ground i
mean look at the mercator projections most people don't really
know how uh right exactly oh i've got.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
One of those as well trying to try to use
my hand there it is that giant thing right there
yeah oh god wait hold it hold it yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
There it is yeah so the mercator projection makes this
thing uh look misleading one way or another in its
size People learn about it in grade school in the West.
You learn about it definitely if you're a school kid
in Denmark. But it came as a surprise to a
(02:43):
lot of current Americans when our existing president, Donald J. Trump,
came out a while back and said, why don't we
just take over Greenland? And everybody said, what is wrong
with you? And then he doubled down on his original statement.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
That was back in January, right? When was the Venezuela invasion?
Was that this year or last year? God, I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
It moved so quickly.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
It was, I think, the very, very beginning of the year.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Okay. So around the same time, I think everybody was like,
take Greenland, man, that's crazy. We can dismiss that as
just a statement, right? And then we did that thing
we did to Venezuela, and I think everybody went, oh, crap.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Right. Right. Like, there is an irrational actor. say, a
lot of other world powers. So tonight's question, what the
heck is going on here, folks? Is Uncle Sam and
the current president, are they serious? If so, why does
the United States want Greenland in the first place? We'll
(03:48):
be back after a word from our sponsors. Here are
the facts. Join us in, like, a grade school... high
school introductory course. Let's learn about Greenland. Matt, you and
I are big fans of maps and we've got a bunch.
(04:13):
It's funny because, you know, you and I have the
same map. I have one out of frame here by
the skeleton.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Just past Agent Scully. There is a map. There be maps. Well,
speaking of those, we've One of the coolest ones you
can get, and I do not have one anywhere in
this layer right now, but an Arctic Circle map is
one of the coolest ones you can find. And this is,
imagine looking at a globe, but just top down on
(04:42):
the top of that globe and looking at the North
Pole as your center and then all of the land
masses and ice that surrounds that area and especially the waterways.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
The waterways.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And you get to, there's one that's posted on Britannica.com.
If you just look for Greenland over there.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
This is precisely what we're talking about here. And there's
one on Britannica that shows all of the military bases
that are in this entire area. And it's actually at
a different angle. It's got Greenland kind of on the,
I guess it would be in the Southwest side of
the map, Ben. And it's, got basically in red, of
(05:25):
course they chose red, all of the Russian bases on
the side there. And then it's got, you know, just
a couple of the bases on the left side that
are US. Some of them are, what is this? Canadian.
A couple of them, there's like one Iceland base and,
two Greenland bases that are both controlled by the U.S.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, yeah, that's the badger in the bag here. If
you're looking at this map that we're keeping up, you
will see that Greenland is huge. It is, in fact,
the world's largest island that is not a continent. Sorry, Australia,
you didn't make weight, so now you're heavy. You're a continent.
(06:07):
It looks pretty foreboding, right, if we take a gander
at these maps of, the Atlantic Ocean, or as you
were saying, Matt, especially the Arctic Circle. So in this
map here, you can see, we can all see that
dotted ring. That is what we would call the Arctic Circle.
Greenland is riddled with glaciers. Even now, its northernmost extensions
(06:33):
are just like less than 500 miles from the North Pole.
So when Santa Claus has to make a quick run
to the gas station. He probably stops by there.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Oh yeah, for sure. I bet there's all kinds of
wonderful little trinkets and extra things that he picks up
every year too. Just stuff that you can't get anywhere else,
you know?
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, it's like July and he's got his baseball cap
on and he's saying, hey, nobody identify me in public. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Well, another thing to remember when you're looking at, if
you look at that map of the is that even
in the parts where there's not land, there's quite a
bit of ice on account of it being so cold
up there. And, you know, there, well, we're going to
talk about it later in this, but one of the
major things that's happening right now and has been happening
(07:24):
for years is this thing called climate change, where it's
warming up a bit and quite a bit of that
ice is melting in places that are being used strategically
for travel throughout this whole area.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, shipping lanes. Yeah, for sure. And then access to, well,
we'll get into it for sure. We've been thinking about
this one for a long time, folks, even back to
years ago when we did an episode called, let me
get it, The Race to the Arctic, Who Will Control
the Poles? You remember that one?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Man.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Wow. Yeah, this does have a lot in common with
that one. Because the same themes are at play, right?
Anytime a, let's say a Navy force, no matter what
it is, can have ease of access and movement anywhere
throughout the world. What did you call them, Ben? A
blue water Navy?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
A blue water Navy.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Where you can just go wherever you want as long
as you can physically go there, right?
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yes. As long as you can project that force and
convince other people this is for exploration or scientific enterprise,
you know, Hey guys, I'm invading your sovereign waters for
all of us, like for the general effort. Okay. So
why are you being weird?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
So research vessels off the Sinai peninsula wink. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah. Oh, this guy hates dolphins. Sorry. So, uh, we
also know that Greenland has ancient evidence of human habitations.
2500 BCE onward, the issue is a lot of cultures
came and went because they were living pretty challenging lives.
(09:13):
This is an environment that will kill you if you
are unprepared.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah. That type of lack of heat that is just
unrelenting and scarce food sources, man, it is not fun.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
No, no, no. But people still tried to pitch it.
The name that we respect the most is, of course,
Ka'alalit Nunat, which just means land of the Ka'alalit, one
of the most influential indigenous cultures to exist there, which
persists in the modern day. But the reason we call
(09:53):
it Greenland now dates back to 986 CE. There's this guy.
You may have heard of him. I don't know if
we can afford a sound cue. They call him Eric
the Red. Oh, Eric Therese.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And then everybody afterwards seems to have the name Frederick
in their name. Have you noticed that, Ben?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I've noticed, but I'm glad you brought it up first.
I didn't want to call you out.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I don't know why we Fredericks chose to do that,
but that's a thing.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, right. Maybe it's like how Ben in many languages
means son of. Maybe Fred Eric means like Benja Amin.
you know, like son of Eric. Probably not.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Well, you know, you can't have Frederick without Red. So
maybe it was Eric's fault.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Maybe it was Eric's fault and his phenomenal love of anagrams.
So this guy, Eric, according to the Icelandic sagas, which
lay somewhere between fiction and oral history, in these Icelandic sagas,
Eric and his old man, his paterfamilias, they're exiled from Iceland,
(11:12):
which is just sort of to the east of Greenland.
And they're exiled for the crime of manslaughter. So they
get a group of 14 boats with all their extended
families and their thralls, modern word, slaves, and they light
out west. And so the story goes that Eric the
(11:33):
Red apparently named this place Greenland when he was one
of the first Viking forces to land there permanently. And
he said, hey, if we call it Greenland, the word
gets around, more people will come here. It's a cool story.
It's very Field of Dreams. But again, given the age
of these recollections, it's difficult to verify how true that
(11:58):
story is.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Absolutely. I think it's worth noting here, guys, just... some
of those minor differences between Greenland and Iceland and just
this concept of being exiled to Iceland only to return
back to Greenland, especially when we think about what we
know about these two places. Haven't you guys been to Iceland,
both you and Dylan?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Dylan, Tennessee, have you been to Iceland?
Speaker 3 (12:22):
I have not. I think Paul had been to Iceland.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Oh, Paul, Mission Control.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I'm so sorry, Dylan.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
A longtime friend of the show, Paul, Mission Control, Deccant, uh,
did journey to Iceland while we were working together and
he loved everything but the food. No offense.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Well, this, this is just to say that of what
I know of Iceland, I've seen many a picture, been
a bit obsessed with some of the musicians from there,
seen many a music video that's been created and like
kind of a travel YouTube documentary thing. It looks like
a gorgeous place. It looks like in areas quite an
inhospitable place, but in a lot of other places there
(13:02):
on Iceland, it's a great place to live as a
human being. I'm imagining arriving there to those lands and
then choosing to get back on those ships, Ben, and
then go across that icy water again, that freezing cold water,
to get back to the place that we know is
so dangerous and so rough. Man, it's a wonder that
(13:25):
that even occurred. And I guess it makes sense that
they created a saga out of it. And if it
truly did happen, right, then I imagine anyone who wanted
to be there would be kind of an astounding person,
a tough person.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
But then trying to get everybody else to come, you know,
as some kind of marketing campaign, as you're saying that
Raritha Red was doing, like.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Hey, you're going to love it. It's me, your buddy,
Big E.R. Yeah, it's interesting because the settlements that we
knew the Vikings created are on sort of the western side,
southwestern side, right? Where the glaciers had not completely overtaken
(14:12):
everything or where they had retreated, which will be a
common theme in tonight's exploration. It's also, the story just
gets weirder, you guys, because Denmark colonizes Greenland in the 1700s.
Denmark was and is still technically a kingdom OK, and
(14:34):
Greenland is in such a strange liminal space, a phrase
we don't try to overuse, but it's it's an autonomous
territory under the rule of the kingdom of Denmark. So
it is not sovereign. Instead, since 1982, when it gained
home rule, Greenland runs all its own domestic affairs. They've
(14:57):
got their own prime minister. They are dictating what happens
on their land or in their waters. Meanwhile, Denmark takes
care of foreign policy, defense, pretty much everything outside of Greenland.
And that kind of makes sense because This place is vast. Again,
(15:20):
it's the world's largest island. But get this, folks. The population,
so far as we know, hovers around 56,000 people. That's it.
And their population is declining. They've got a lot of
brain drain. They've got a lot of people leaving. They've
got a sharp decline in reproduction. So just 56,000 people
(15:44):
on this vast swath of land.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
It's like a small college town in America.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
It very much is, yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah, but then spread, just spread, you know, out pretty far,
especially along that western coast that you're talking about there, Ben.
I wonder if we could just go back to history
a little bit when it comes to the World Wars
and the Cold War of it. Like right before, what
did you say, Ben, 1982 is that kind of mark
that we're putting there when it comes to? when Greenland
(16:15):
is running itself, for the most part, it did change
hands a couple of different times throughout the World Wars.
Just to put it in there, so if you do
want to look it up and check out this stuff,
because it becomes interesting, Ben, I think when you think
about the strategic location of it and how Greenland has
(16:37):
in the past been used and kind of, I would say... occupied,
especially by U.S. forces, for reasons of strategy. Just looking
at World War II and, you know, again, according to
just Britannica and a couple other places that just look
at the history, Denmark was occupied by Nazi Germany and
(16:59):
then the United States ended up assuming responsibility temporarily for
Greenland's defense. And that's how you end up getting to
these two primary bases that are on Greenland that the U.S. controls,
that the U.S. still controls, that like they're still, they're cool. Like, yeah,
you guys can have control over here. Because the U.S.
(17:21):
in the past did attempt to make some moves, right,
to control Greenland more. But then Greenland said, no, we're
not doing that. But you can like expand your bases.
That's fine. It's just strange to me. And it comes
back to the Strait of Hormuz discussions we've had, Ben.
It goes back to a lot of these choke points
(17:41):
on the sea, on the oceans. With that, what is
it called, the GI-UK gap?
Speaker 1 (17:47):
That would be the Greenland-Iceland gap.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Well, it's just another place where if you have a
powerful navy, you want to be able to secure ingress
and egress safely. you know, between basically around Iceland, on
either side of Iceland, between the UK and Iceland, and
then between Greenland and Iceland.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
You want to own the door, right?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And that's a huge part of this larger historical tapestry.
And we know, like we were teasing at the top,
that climate change is skyrocketing by any metric. That conspiracy
is real. It's happening. Welcome to 30 years from now
when you're fighting for water. Maybe 10. Anyway, Greenland has
(18:34):
acquired this new position of increasing significance. At least the
public thinks it. But as you were saying, Matt, there's
a lot of story behind it. If you look at
good folks like Harvard Kennedy School or the CFR, Council
on Foreign Relations, they will tell you what we just said.
Greenland's location makes it perfect for things like early missile
(18:59):
warning systems. that's vital to military defense. And additionally, if
you control Greenland in practice, kind of like playing the
game of risk, how control of the country of Siam
lets you run Australia, control of Greenland lets you run
those northern sea lanes, those gaps. It also gives you
(19:22):
access to rare earth minerals that are only increasing in value.
That's what we call foreshadowing. Stay tuned. On paper, though,
this is great for Greenland and Denmark.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, it really is. The thing I was trying to remember, Ben,
was that Harry Truman, another president, tried to buy Greenland unsuccessfully.
And that's where you get some of these strategic places
we're talking about. Correct me if I'm wrong here. I
think it's called the Pitufik Space Base. I think that's
the one that currently exists.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah. I can't wait to get to it.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Oh, okay. Well, it used to be the Thule Base.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
And it became a big part of this whole deal-making
that the U.S. and Greenland got into right after World
War II.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
A hundred percent, yeah. And again, there's so much precedent.
In practice, people in Greenland and Denmark are very worried
right now, understandably so. It is not as if Greenland's
importance has ever been a secret, right, since the days
of Eric the Red. Quite the opposite. And other countries
(20:32):
have often wanted in on the game, on the real estate,
The most notable of these countries being right now, as
you've probably heard, the United States. So our question then becomes,
Matt in Tennessee, what gives? Sorry, I'm beating Andy Rooney
in 60 minutes. What's the deal? What gives? With all
these recent headlines from the current U.S. president about making
(20:56):
Greenland somehow part of the United States, are these just
like off-the-wall, three coffees deep comments? Will they result in action?
Would Uncle Sam ever actually invade Greenland?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And why would they do that if they've already got
bases on the place?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
We'll be right back. Here's where it gets crazy. Also,
shout out to this Illumination Global Unlimited hat. Oh, yeah.
It sounds, Matt Dillon, it sounds bonkers crazy. But it
is absolutely true. Since 2025, the second Trump administration has
(21:41):
been sending public signals about invading or annexing Greenland. But
most people forget these are renewed public signals. A lot
of people, guys, you know, Dylan, if you could tell
Matt and myself how you first reacted to this news,
I think a fair number of people in the United
(22:03):
States are decided to ignore the statement or just to
make fun of it. This is the same guy who
earlier off the cuff said, yeah, what if we nuke
a hurricane?
Speaker 4 (22:13):
I just, I feel like it, I didn't take it
seriously at first, but then it became a pattern. I mean,
this was pre Venezuela and then Canada and he hasn't
really given up on Greenland. So, and also rumblings about Cuba.
I mean, at some point you start taking it seriously.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah. And it makes you scratch your head even more,
I think. Ben, there's a thing I'm thinking about our
race to the Arctic episode now. We're thinking about his words,
the President's words on Greenland. And I'm remembering in that episode,
we talked about the moves Russia has been making in
(22:55):
the Arctic Circle area for a long time. And I
was thinking about the U.S. and our with the Middle
East from about 2002 up until even now and how we,
you know, we as a country, our naval forces, all
of our, most of our forces are so interested in
this one area of the world while Russia is really
(23:19):
focusing a lot of their efforts in this Arctic Circle.
And it's almost as though, or it feels maybe, like
the U.S. is aware it needs to play some catch
up in this realm.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Maybe you, yeah, you play the catch up or you
get the mustard, right? So I'm sure that's going to
translate very well.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
But what of the mayo, Ben?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
But what of the mayo, Matt? You didn't think about
the mayo. So this, this is true. You know, this
is one of the most powerful guys on the planet, right?
One of the, one of the people who can command the,
world-ending nuclear weapons. And so if you are another world
(24:04):
leader or you're a business tycoon, you pay attention to
everything this guy says, no matter how silly it might seem.
Like we were lightly roasting, we were brazing Vladimir Putin
over wanting to live forever. And at the same time,
you remember, Matt, at the very top, we all had
to acknowledge that that everybody pays attention to every wackadoo
(24:28):
thing that guy says. So like Trump appears to be serious.
President Trump appears to have doubled down. He's triggered an
international diplomatic crisis. It's happening now because he was asked,
he was asked about, we'll jump around in time, but multiple,
at multiple instances, he was asked about whether he would
(24:52):
use military force to invade Greenland, which is under Denmark,
which is part of NATO. And he routinely refused to
rule it out. He was like, you know, anything's on
the table. He at first, he at first, in this
iteration of his administration, he at first went to Denmark
(25:14):
and said, can I just have it? Yeah. He just
passed the ball. Gimme. Gimme. And they said no, by
the way. Spoiler. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah. Just like they did when Truman asked for it.
Truman at least said, I'll pay you.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
He tried to buy it. Yeah. And then when, and
it is funny because Trump did the same thing in
his first administration. He tried to buy, to purchase Greenland.
Denmark said no. So he came back and was like, okay,
I think I get it. you guys just want to
give it to me, right? Now that I'm president again,
like you don't want money between friends. And they said no.
(25:55):
And then he came forward to, and the rest of
the EU, by the way, also said, what is wrong
with your boy? And he then responded by threatening to
hit multiple European countries with a 25% import tax. Cough, cough. Dude. Tariffs.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah. You get a tariff. You get a tariff. I
don't like you. More tariffs. Really interesting situation. Ben, here's
where we get to the Fredericks of it all. Jens
Frederick Nielsen.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Ah, yes, the prime minister of Greenland.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Oh, yes.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Got a quick little quote here in one of the
rejections of the whole pitch idea of taking Greenland or
buying it or whatever. Here you go. And this is
translated to English, by the way. So here we go.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Quote.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
No more pressure, no more hints, no more fantasies about annexation.
When the president of the United States talks about, quote,
we need Greenland, unquote, and connects us with Venezuela and
military intervention, it's not just wrong. It's so disrespectful. We
are a part of NATO and we are fully aware
of our country's strategic location.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
That's part of why that guy is prime minister. He's
very well-reasoned. He knows what he's talking about. He's an expert.
And we, like the rest of the world now, have
to figure out why the U.S. presidential administration, I'm being fair,
a system, not an individual, wants Greenland, quote unquote, why
(27:31):
they want it in a specific way. And the history
that we've already teased, the real estate is terrible if
you are in an individual human basis. But if you
are a country, that real estate is cat bird seat,
you know, the world powers, Ooh, they want that Arctic.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Uh, you got those military budgets and contracts for what
have we, Oh, what is the thing?
Speaker 1 (27:56):
A sack.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
A single construction contract thing. The stuff we could build.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
The stuff we could build. The U.S. is super concerned
about Russia controlling the area. This is a valid concern,
by the way, because breaking up the ice around the
North Pole makes all that formerly not great real estate
(28:25):
to the north of Russia It makes it amazing. Now
we can build bases. Now we can have ports that
are maybe all year round ports. We can also fix
up our infrastructure to transport minerals. And China, the nation
of China, which does not share a land border with
(28:46):
the Arctic Circle, they're also super interested in it. Sending
around some subs to do some, you know, looky-loos, just
checking out for science kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
And there were, I don't know how deep we're going
to get into it today, Ben, but there were multiple
major investments by China in Greenland and in specific projects
that ended up getting squashed and not moving forward. Like
they got canceled because of pressure from the U S.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
And because of environmental concerns from the government of Greenland,
they got bureaucratically stonewalled as well. Uh, and we'll see
that applies to a lot of things.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I think, uh, Dude, whenever that happens, Ben, I always
think if that is the maneuver, the excuse for some
other geopolitical actor to step in and say, oh, it's
the environmentals. It's not going to work on the environmentals, guys.
so but really there's somebody with a gun in the
office next door and just be like they better say.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
No 100% and I love it Matt because you're doing
such great boardroom talk the environmentals we love the creative
we're concerned about the environmentals so the Trump is beautiful
the Trump administration has also, with validity, to be fair,
(30:05):
they have raised warnings about Russian and Chinese hegemony, really,
in Greenland, in the North Pole. And they paint it
or embellish it in these scary terms. They're saying, Greenland,
without us, will be surrounded by Russian and Chinese vessels.
Look what's happening in the South China Sea.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Right. And that's true. China's being kind of a dick
out there. But Donald Trump, the current U.S. president, also
argues that Denmark does not have the ability to defend
Greenland from these dystopian incursions. The implication being that if
the United States does not control the world's largest island,
(30:50):
then Russia or China, by hook or by crook, eventually will.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
I was going to try and point out Denmark on
this map over here, but I don't think.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
No, you're close.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
You're close.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
It's like pretty close. I'm going to Sweden. Going up
near Sweden.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Oh, this is hard. It's looking like Canada. We're on
different viewpoints.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Well, like, okay. If you go, it's not going to
work with me being able to do this way.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
I'm not a weatherman. Okay. I don't know how they
figured how to do that thing.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
That's a skill set. That's pretty cool, right? The green
screen thing.
Speaker 5 (31:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
But you can look up Denmark. It's very tiny and
it is hidden. It's basically hidden over here. It's just
below Norway and Sweden. You'll find it.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
You'll find it. It's, it's, uh, it's got a wonderful
culture and we can't wait to hang out there. And
just so you know, before you travel in person on average,
they are very tall. So yes. Yeah. So work on
your charisma. Uh, this, I love that you mentioned earlier, Matt,
(31:54):
this historic thing that escapes so many people. Like Truman
before him, during the first Trump administration, the president tried
to buy Greenland, and the U.S. has loved Greenland all
the way back to World War II through the Cold War.
This is not a new crisis. This is an escalation
(32:16):
of an existing pattern, but it's a dangerous escalation still.
I mean, it would be like Noel saying, I want
Dylan's house. Dylan, give me your house, or I can
maybe buy it.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Or, f * * * it, I'll just take it.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Or I'll just go in.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Oh, man.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
So at this point, folks, we've got a lot of history.
We've got a lot of dope beats to step to geopolitically.
So we need to talk about the fallout, the international reaction, right?
How do... So in this.
In this analogy with Dylan and Noel, Matt, you and
(32:57):
I are the rest of the world. So the first
big hurdle here is that you and I don't own
Dylan's house ourselves. Greenland is not part of the European Union.
Denmark is. Actually, Greenland voted to not be part of
the EU after they got home rule.
Speaker 3 (33:21):
My mortgage is with... Denmark.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Dylan's mortgages with Denmark, which is apparently the two of us,
and you tuning in, and Agent Scully.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
This is getting too complicated. I think we're just going
to have to invade. I'm sorry, Dylan.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Does that mean I don't have to pay my mortgage?
Speaker 1 (33:37):
It does. It does. It should. So we're going to
take stuff from your house, and that'll be the mortgage. Oh, man,
that's too scarily accurate. Well, one thing, folks, one thing
that Matt and Tennessee and I wanted to share with
you is the big concern about U.S. action against Greenland.
(33:59):
If it ever happened, this would mean triggering something that
is very important to NATO. The United States is a
huge funder of NATO. Even now, it's an historic big
boy partner. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization is primarily meant
to stop what they see as an expansionist Soviet Union.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Right?
Speaker 1 (34:21):
And now an expansionist Russia. Russia, to be fair, sees
NATO itself as an expansionist force. These are two crews
that don't get along with each other. And part of
the reason that the NATO thing is such a big
deal is because of something called Article 5, which we
have mentioned often. It reads in part, quote, an armed
(34:44):
attack against one NATO member shall be considered an attack
against all members and triggers an obligation for each member
to come to its assistance. Meaning in short, if you
pop off at one person in our gang, then we
all jump in. So if, uh, if Matt and Dylan
(35:07):
and I are at a house party and then someone, uh,
offends Dylan, right. Offends his dignity or, you know, uh,
Let's say strikes Dylan. Strikes. Well, if someone, God forbid,
strikes Dylan, then Matt and I are obligated to jump
in to the best of our ability. International relations is
(35:32):
always one big house party, a backyard cookout where the
resources are scarce and the people are many. There you
have it. We're going to take a pause for a
word from our sponsors and hopefully we'll get back to you.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Let's take a look at this North Atlantic slash Arctic
Ocean map, the Arctic Circle again, and let's just take
a look at the countries that are NATO and.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
The ones that are not.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
You won't be able to see maybe my cursor on here,
but if you look over here, this is Alaska. You
can probably see Alaska up there in the north.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, sort of at 1130.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
And then it continues all around here with Canada and
then across over here to Greenland, Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland.
So this whole side, it's almost half, almost exactly half.
These are all of the NATO countries over here. And
then on this side, Russia, basically. Isn't that crazy? All
(36:37):
of these countries versus Russia when it comes to who
are we afraid of and what are we defending against?
Speaker 5 (36:43):
Right.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
And we have to wonder about the rationale. Wonder and wander.
Because this issue is, if the U.S., even with the
best of intentions, the most noble of intent, even if
the U.S. invades Greenland for a good reason, will it
trigger Article 5? How does the rest of your gang
(37:07):
handle a betrayal from within? This is a U.S. pulling
a Judas Iscariot for a greater good. I mean, obviously,
it's going to be a great day for Daddy V,
for Daddy Vlad, if NATO disintegrates, right? It's going to
wreak havoc on international relations. We're going to see economic warfare.
(37:28):
We're going to see sanctions, tariffs up the wazoo. You're
probably going to get flight restrictions if you live in
any NATO country to some degree. There are going to
be crazy changes in immigration policy. If you think it's
bad now, folks, just wait. And there's also going to be,
you know, countries pulling out of NATO entirely. I'll take
(37:49):
my ball and go home. There are going to be
countries that want to join NATO that are going to
reconsider it because NATO doesn't look as solid as it
advertised itself to be.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Well, is it any wonder that, you know, some of
the major conflicts that Russia has been getting into deal
specifically with other countries wanting to maybe join NATO? Exactly.
Or being in the process of getting a NATO membership
card so they can do all the things and have,
you know, so NATO's got their back from now on?
(38:23):
You can see this happening back in our discussions with Crimea,
back in our discussions with basic... Even that Arctic episode
we did, all of these, that is one of the
key situations that Russia is grappling with right now. Look
at that map. Everybody on that map is against us
and ready to fight back if we try and do anything.
(38:47):
That's probably a pretty uncomfortable position to be in if
we're using that whole empathy thing, right? Just thinking about
it that way, getting a different perspective. But also, maybe
there's a really good reason That all those countries joined
up and made an organization like this.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
And also, why should we waste blood and treasure fighting
all of them at once when we can get them
to fight themselves? Right? Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Just needle them. Get them to.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Full slice of dice. Well, he said, she said, I
don't know. I don't know, your highness. The prime minister
in Greenland kind of says you're a poop. He said
he called you a poop and I asked him if
it was a translation error, and he said no. He
said you smell weird. Oh, dude.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Let's go back to the Fredericks of it all one
more time, because we've got another prime minister also with
Frederick in the name. This time, the Danish prime minister
met Fredrickson, or Friedrickson. No, it's Frederickson. And it's even
got that ER in it. But all of these have
the ER. What the heck's going on?
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Ellis Island. Yep.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Here's a quote.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
If the U.S. chooses to attack another NATO country militarily,
then everything stops, including NATO, and thus the security that
has been established since the end of the Second World War.
And then she goes on to urge the United States to, quote,
cease its threats against a historically close ally and against
another country and another people who have stated very clearly
(40:20):
that they are not for sale. You know, another prime
minister that feels like they should have that position.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Right. Yeah. And also, folks, if you'll humor us, if
you're watching this episode on Netflix, here is our flawless
interpretation of Vladimir Putin reading that statement.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
With a skeleton behind him.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Yes, yes. If you're listening on an audio platform, check
us out on Netflix. Give us two thumbs up. Let
us screw up your algorithm with you. It goes further, man.
Speaking of prime ministers, let's go to Jonas Garstor. In
January of 2026, there were some leaked texts between the U.S.
(41:11):
president and the prime minister, of Norway, our buddy Jonas.
And in these texts, seriously, they're just like texting each other.
In these texts, the president of the United States of
America said, I don't really have to think about peace
anymore because I didn't get the Nobel Peace Prize. He
(41:33):
specifically said, again, to another world leader in a casual text,
the following. We're not going to do the voice. Considering
your country has decided not to give me the Nobel
Peace Prize for having stopped eight wars, capital, plus, comma,
I no longer feel an obligation to think purely of peace.
(41:59):
So he's like, yeah, you didn't give me what I
wanted earlier, so why should I play reindeer games? There
are a lot of reindeer in Greenland, that's why. Ah.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Everybody just needs to go. I'm doing it again. Get ready.
Go and listen to and watch the Bo Burnham performance
of Art is Dead. And you will see an example
of the person who puts that statement into the world,
either via text, via saying it to someone out loud,
or just having the thought, you didn't give me what
(42:31):
I want, so now I'm going to take it.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Right. And this, in Trump's case, maybe not Burnham's, Maybe
not Bose.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
No, Burnham is illustrating it via.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah. Yeah. He's going by example. I'm saying like in
the president's case, this is a textbook iteration of what
we call brinksmanship in international affairs. That's where you push
a dangerous situation or confrontation to the edge of safety
in hopes of forcing concessions from your opponent or the
(43:01):
other player. It's Dick.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
It's also the, Known as the thing that happens right
before war.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's brinksmanship until it's war, right?
And DPRK is great at it. And folks, we're going
to pause it here. This is chapter one of a
two-part exploration on the United States' strange obsession with Greenland.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
This has been fun, you guys. Gotta say, hit that like. Oh, wait, wait.
What platform are we on?
Speaker 1 (43:33):
We're on a lot of platforms. We're in the back rooms, too.
We're in your back rooms.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Oh, God. I just watched that movie, Ben.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
I loved it. Fans of SCP, you'll get what we're
talking about as well. You can find us on the internet.
You can call us on the phone.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
That's right. We're all over the place on most of
the socials. We're at Conspiracy Stuff. You may find a
few of them where we are at Conspiracy Stuff Show. Hey,
we have a phone number. It is 1-833-STD-WYTK. Call in
with your thoughts, anything you want to say. You got
(44:08):
about three minutes. It's a voicemail system. Give yourself a
cool nickname so we know when you call in next time.
And let us know within the message if we can
use your name and message on one of our listener
mail episodes that show up in the audio feed. Ben,
there's one more exceedingly good way to contact us.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Ah, yes, the Ouija board or the scry or the
mirror in the dark. If you don't have those home,
I've been reading a lot of online recipes. If you
don't have those ingredients handy, you can substitute with an email.
We'll see you out here. Conspiracy at iHeartRadio.com.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Stuff They Don't Want You To Know is a production
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