Weirdhouse Cinema: Deep Red

In this episode of Weirdhouse Cinema, Rob and Joe celebrate January Giallo with a look at Italian horror master Dario Argento’s 1975 film “Deep Red,” starring David Hemmings and with an iconic score by Goblin.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb
and this is Joe McCormick. And today on Weird House Cinema,
we are going to be talking about the nineteen seventy
five horror classic Deep Red or Profundo Rosso, starring David
Hemmings and Daria Nickelode, directed by Dario Argento. This movie

(00:33):
is often held up as one of Argento's best, and
in this case, I think I'm going to agree with
the commonly held opinion not going to stake out any
weird territory. I do think this is one of the
best Jallo films ever made, if not the greatest one
of all. Now, why are we talking about Jallo in January?
Because it's January Jallo once more. What is this? Well,

(00:55):
it's a tradition started by La based cult cinema outfit
Cinematic Void. You can learn more about them at cinematic
void dot com. Beginning in twenty sixteen, I believe, and
it steadily become more official, spread to other cities and
an official capacity, even while also being picked up informally
as a viewing tradition, alongside the likes of Noir November

(01:17):
and hopefully more themed months to come. I love a
good theme, and I know you do.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
You're you're more aware of these calendar things than I am.
I never would have known about Jallo January, you.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Know, I'm not. I don't get behind a lot of holidays.
So I like these new holidays we're presenting ourselves with.
And hey, this is the tenth anniversary of this new tradition,
so you know, we embraced it. We decided to pick
a film last year. We did Footsteps on the Moon.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Footprints on the Moon, Footprints on the Moon, Footprints on
the Moon, Yeah, which was a kind of weird pick.
We picked it because we had seen it listed online
among Jello films, and it was supposed to be really good.
And I'm going to say, however, much I liked it.
I think we both liked it a lot, didn't we Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
I really liked it.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
But it turned out it really wasn't a Jallo film,
at least as most people would describe it. It's sort
of aesthetically Jallo adjacent. So I think in that episode
we may have actually said something like, if you want
to see what a core Jallo film is. Watch Deep Red.
So here we are, and I would say, in all

(02:22):
but maybe a few respects, Deep Red is about as
Jallo as it gets. It hits all the bullseye markers.
It's like, what the absolute essence of what this genre is.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
I'll have some questions about that as we proceed, because
this is one of those areas where people get very
specific about what should constitute jallo and what isn't Jallo.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Well, can I offer a very actually oversimplified theory about
why that question comes up so much?

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (02:53):
I think it is specifically because a lot of people
get into jallo by watching Spiria first and then starting
to watch Dario Argento's other movies, and Suspiria is not
usually considered jello because it's supernatural, but some of his
other movies like Deep Bread and Tinebray and Bird with

(03:14):
Crystal Plumage are very like core Jallo. But because Suspiria
has a lot of esthetic things in common with these
other main Jallo movies, and because it's usually the first
movie people see to get into this Italian film niche,
I think the question just comes up over and over again.
Wait a minute, is Suspiria, not Jallo. Well, and so

(03:36):
it creates the impression that there's a lot of discussion
about this like category boundary.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Well, and it gets confusing too because then like Deep
Read has a psychic in it. It's true. Yeah, it's
not like this film is completely devoid of the speculative elopment.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
But as they make clear in the film, and they're
like this, this psychic powers have nothing to do with magic.
You remember the whole speech about that.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
That's true. Yeah, this is parapsycho.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
Right, science, it's pure science. So yeah, so I guess
Robbie you had a section in the outline where you
thought we should do a brief refresher on what makes
a jallo.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah. Yeah, let's remind everybody.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
So. Jallo is an Italian movie genre which evolved out
of a pulp literary genre of the same name. So
you had Jallo novels which go back almost one hundred years.
These were mystery and crime thriller paperbacks, originally published with
this iconic yellow cover design, which is where the genre
name comes from. Jallo means yellow, and Jallo films in

(04:38):
plural are known as jalli Jalli plural of jello so
while the original Jallo novels were I think more in
line with your classic and maybe classier who done it?
You can think of authors like Agatha Christie. Jallo films,
which became especially popular in the nineteen seventies, are known

(05:00):
today for being seedier, having seed deier, trashier elements. You
can still think of them basically as murder mystery thrillers,
but with strong elements of horror, usually grizzly violence, and
what was usually seen as tawdry sexual subject matter.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah. Yeah, usually like the kills especially. Yeah, you're not
going to get an implied stabbing. You're gonna get a nice,
juicy stabbing, that sort of thing.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah. So a lot of these movies have gore a
lot of them. They they feel kind of perverted in
some way, and almost in that luccio fulcy sense. There's
a great sense of like, let's get a look at
this as something that you wouldn't normally see or you're
not supposed to see. The camera will really dwell on that.
So there are core plot elements you will find in

(05:51):
most Jello films. Usually there is a series of cold
blooded murders that are very very chilling. There's you know,
they're not your run of the mill crime movie murder.
There's something really shocking and weird and disgusting committed by
a killer with an unknown identity. So like, there's a

(06:13):
killer on the loose, we don't know who they are.
Maybe somebody only saw them from behind leaving the scene,
and so there's a there's a mystery. Who is it?
Who from the cast of characters could it be. Usually
police are not very helpful. They are baffled and useless,
except in a few movies where the main character is
a police officer, but usually they're not. I really want

(06:34):
to emphasize a thing that makes Jallo different than a
lot of other mysteries or crime thrillers is the quality
of the violence. The violence is more disturbing than your
standard movie homicide. And these movies really like weird, icky
weapons and the kinds of wounds that make you go

(06:54):
ooh uh, Like, you know, you suck your air through
your teeth when you see these movie deaths.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, yeah, grizzly would be a good description.

Speaker 3 (07:04):
So, for example, there's like one scene in this movie
where you know, the killer comes up on a professor
character and you think the killer is just gonna stab
him with a knife, and the killer does stab him
with a knife, but before that there's a lot of
like bashing his teeth out on the corners of furniture.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, yeah, on the whole. There were multiple times in
this film where and I'm no prude when it comes
to violence, but there are multiple times where us like
this is a bit much, a genta, we really didn't
need to see all of this.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
That's what Jello is all about. It's all a bit much.
These movies also very frequently have an out of place
or alienated protagonist who finds themselves carrying out an independent
investigation into the murders. Usually they there's some kind of
circumstance by which they have to become an amateur detective,

(07:52):
despite you know, dealing with hardships along the way. So
they might have something is wrong with them that makes
it hard for them to investigate, or they're dealing with
fear or psychic trauma of some kind, or a lack
of support from the community if they're an outsider. There
are a lot of jala movies like this, where like
somebody comes in from the outside. They're investigating murders for

(08:15):
some reason, and the locals are not helping. At the
end of the movie, there will usually be a final
revelation where we learn the killer's identity. Of course, it's
usually a character already known to us in some way,
and we get some kind of full download of what
happened with a full explanation, like in Hitchcock's Psycho, where

(08:36):
we learn not just who did it, and usually who
did it is kind of surprising. It's rare that it's
like the main suspect, who did it, why they did it?
Usually in these movies they were driven mad by some
sort of bizarre childhood experience or trauma. Very often Freudian
logic is in play. And then another thing that I

(08:58):
think is crucial to the the flavor of Jello is
that we have to get an explanation for why we
didn't realize it was them all along, like how they
covered it up, or why we wrongly suspected somebody else.
More incidental plot elements that I think are very interesting
and how often they recur. One that I know I

(09:20):
mentioned in Footprints on the Moon in our episode on
that is that so many of these movies have a
protagonist who begins the investigation with the central clue to
solving the mystery already in their possession or already in
their memory, but they can't make sense of it yet.
So in several Argento movies, the main character of the

(09:44):
film actually witnesses something at the beginning that reveals the
killer's identity. This is there in Bird with a Crystal plumage.
It's in a bunch of them, but they're not able
to fully remember what they saw, or they can't make
sense of it or un or stand it until something
locks into place at the final revelation. And I think

(10:07):
I said this last time as well, but I find
this recurring plot element one of the most interesting things
about Jello that these stories are about people who already
saw the answer. It's there in their memory, but they
can't consciously apply the information. It's like blind sight.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, yeah, it'll be fun to come back to this
one as we actually break down the plot of Deep Red.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
Another thing is that the protagonist often ends up questioning
their sanity. Not always, but there's a good bit of that.
Often there is also a central love story, and the
protagonist's love interest is both threatened by the killer but
also suspected of being the killer, and sometimes they are
the killer. And then, just to mention a few overriding

(10:56):
esthetic choices you see throughout Jallo films. One is voyeuristic
photography that is huge in Argento and in Deep Red,
but it's throughout the genre as well. A lot of
killer point of view shots.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, a lot of hands doing things, picking up weapons,
caressing documents, that sort of thing. And of course Urgento
is known for often playing the hands of the killer
in his films.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
Of course, as we already said, explicit violence in Gore,
there is a thematic and esthetic union of sex and death,
a lot of eroticized violence. A little bit, I would say,
less of that in Deep Red than in a lot
of Jello's, but there's a bit of it.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
It's still there. It's a little more tastefully balanced compared
to where it goes in some films. That's the thing
about the genre as a whole, right, I mean sometimes
it is not subtle. Now, what we're looking at here
is really a finely crafted example of the genre.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Yeah. The Jallo killer's uniform. This occurs again and again.
Trench coat with the collar flipped off, flipped up, maybe
a fedora hat, and black leather gloves. An outfit that
hides their face. You know, you might see them only
from behind going around a corner, and it's the coat,
the hat, and especially the gloves. And then I would say,

(12:15):
especially in the better Jallo films, I notice they really
often love interior decor. So many of these movies are
full of striking sets, just apartments with wild detailed furniture
and wallpaper patterns and stuff, just way more than you'd
see in any other movie genre I can think of,

(12:38):
you know. Yeah, so like wallpaper and furniture in fashion too,
a lot of like wild interesting clothing. But one of
the last things I'd say about the esthetic commonalities is
that they often feature high art and low art sensibilities
crammed together in the same project. You get the feeling

(12:59):
that a lot of these Jallo films were like perverted
trash being made consciously as such by filmmakers who considered
themselves great artists.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting to think about with Deep Red,
especially because I feel like the trashier aspects of the
film are really elevated in a number of ways. I
think it's elevated in the writing, elevated in the acting,
and of course in the direction. In a look of
the film.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah, yeah, so yeah, deep Red hits basically all of
these notes, not quite all, but most of them pretty perfectly.
It certainly wasn't the first Jallo film. There's debate about
what was the first Jallo film. A lot of people
point to the influence of Mario Bava's Blood and Black
Lace as excellent film. Yeah, really good. Maybe not the

(13:47):
first one, but like a standard setter in the genre.
That was I forget what year, in the late sixties,
so we were well into the Jallo craze when Deep
Red came out. It also wasn't even Argento's first jallow film.
You know, he had made Bird the Crystal Plumage, and
I think I think a couple others, maybe Four Flies
on Gray Velvet and The Cat and Nine Tails. But

(14:08):
a lot of people think this is his best Jallo film,
and I think that's probably right, But some of his
other ones are also really good. Bird with Crystal Plumage
I haven't seen in years, but I remember being great.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah, this was actually my first time watching Deep Red.
I've been listening to parts of the soundtrack for years,
especially in different like hard disco mixes, and I've seen
other Argento films, of course, but I guess for some
reason I've often been drawn more to his films that
seem to offer a stronger spect cotive elopment, like Oh,

(14:42):
Stendel Syndrome, people are gonna be falling into paintings, kissing fish,
I'm in you know it's Oh, it's Fantom of the Opera. Okay,
I'll sign up for that, and of course Suspiria and
the other the other Witches films, you know, Yeah, Dracula
three D. Sign me up. I love I'll watch any
Dracula film three D even better.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
Oh boy, is that the one with Rutger Howard?

Speaker 2 (15:02):
It is the one with record Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
Yeah, yeah, no insult intended. But a lot of his
later films are not not usually favorites of the the
Argento fans, but you know, check them out if you
feel like it.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
I had to double check it is three D. Uh.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
Should we do a note on the different cuts of
this film?

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah? Yeah, different cuts as always, bunch of cuts, different titles.
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
So there's one out there going around under the title
the Hatchet Murders. That doesn't make any sense. I don't
think any of the murders in the movie used to hatchet.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Now Cleaver, Yes, so maybe they meant Cleaver and they can.
They're like, it's the Clever Murders and I'm like, uh,
it sounds like it's a Cleaver family or something, and
they're like, Okay, hatchet.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
No hat Yeah, I don't want to mix it up
with leave it to Beaver. Yeah, there's no hatchet in
the movie. From what I recall there you could call
it like the I don't know, Elevator Necklace Murders or something.
But but there are at least three different cuts of
the film out there, maybe more. I really don't know
how many total there are. So there are said to

(16:10):
be some shorter edits that have been kind of censored
for particular international distribution that from what I can tell,
people don't like those cuts. And then I think there's
basically an original or theatrical cut, which I think runs
like ninety something minutes or maybe just over one hundred minutes,
and then there are some longer versions. There's definitely a

(16:32):
longer director's cut with a lot of additional material that
wasn't in the theatrical release, and that's the one that
I watched for today. So Rob I think you and
I may have accidentally watched different cuts even though we
were trying to watch the same ones, So I apologize
if I miscommunicated about that.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
Oh no, we've certainly watched different cuts of the same
film for Weird House before, so it actually can make
for an interesting comparison between our two experiences. Yeah. I
normally don't do this, but it was a busy week,
so I ended up streaming it on Pluto TV free
with commercials. It was great. It was definitely a different cut.

(17:12):
It wasn't the full extended cut, as we'll get into
great quality though some scenes missing compared to what you're discussing,
But it still had the comedic scenes, which I understand
are sometimes cut, and it certainly had seemingly full gore
because it.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
Was I'm thinking that the one you saw probably wasn't
censored at all. It probably just had a lot of
the stuff that was cut for time. And some people,
from what I read online, do like the shorter theatrical cut,
which I think is probably what you saw. They like
it because they say that it's tighter. You know, it's
just got tighter editing and the story just moves along.

(17:46):
The one I saw. My impression was that most of
the extra stuff that was added back in was stuff
in the romantic subplot, like a lot of scenes with
the character played by Daria and Nickelode which were cut
out of the theatrical version. Like I've read people saying
that in the other versions her character has a lot

(18:08):
less screen time and less to do, but in the
version I saw, there's a lot of her. So the
one that I watched is the one currently streaming on
Prime through a service called Cineverse, and so it looks
like it's a fairly recent restoration. It has a few quirks.
For example, the film is dubbed in English, so I

(18:29):
was watching it mostly in English, but there are some
scenes that are in Italian because that was the only
format in which that scene was available. Also, we should
say going forward, this will be a spoiler laden discussion
of the film, So if you want to see it
you haven't seen it yet, you should probably pause here,
go watch the movie before you listen to the rest
of the episode, because we are going to talk about

(18:51):
the plot and spoil things about it.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Yeah, and it is a who done it, so I
do recommend going in spoiler free. I was fortunate enough
to go in spoiler free on this one, which a
lot of these films, especially ones that are particularly well known,
you're just going to be spoiled on them one way
or ano they're reading about films in general or so forth,
listening to podcasts. So yeah, I highly recommend going into

(19:14):
this one as fresh as possible. Let's see, we often
do an elevator pitch. My elevator pitch is this is
Dario Argento's only Murders in the Building, because.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
I've seen that show, so I don't get the joke.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
But well, if you've seen only Murders in the Building,
you basically get it. Like there's been a murder in
your building, in your apartment complex, and you are the
amateur that is now investigating it. Yeah, it lines up
in at least two ways.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
I think. No, I'm going to defend the logic of
it a little bit. There's a lot in this movie
that doesn't make sense. But I think there's a reason
that David Hemmings character has to investigate, and it's that,
having been identified in the press as a witness to
the murder, he is now the target, the next target
for the killer, and so he feels like he has

(20:03):
to solve the murder because he's implicated in it, Like
the killer is going to come for him next, so
he's got to find out who it is.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah, yeah, no, and I bought that. I bought that.
Watching the film, OK, I think it is for the
most part well support though there are a few times
where you're like, Wow, this guy's just straight up destroying
a villa with his bare hands to solve a crime
and it's not his job at all.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
Some of the yeah, some of the clue leaps are
incredibly tenuous, Like remember when he goes to the professors
and they're like, oh, that song that you that you heard, Yeah,
one time people heard that song playing at a house.
You should go look up a book about this house.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah. Yeah. We get a little into the weeds on
the in the research phase at that point, but it
ends up working and it leads to some wonderful revelations.
All right, let's go ahead and listen to just a
little bit of the trailer audio. This one had a
in the English language release of this had a wonderful
grind housey trailer, So hopefully we can hear just a
little bit of that that that narration and that music.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
Do they call it deep Red or profund Rosso?

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Oh? You know, I don't remember, but this is definitely
one of those films where you hear you hear English
speaking fans of the film refer to it both ways.
And you know, because deep Red is how it was released,
and that's a solid title. But I think Profundoso is
just fun to say, even if you don't know the
next thing about Italian. Uh, it just it sounds profound.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
Profound and fun funds right there. It's fun.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah, yeah, have fun with all right, let's listen to
a little bit of that trailer everywhere you look, everywhere
you turn, and get this running with your.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
Deep Red. It'll put you into deep shock.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
All right. So at this point you might have decided, Okay,
I do need to watch Deep Red. I need to
watch it again. What have you? Where can I watch it? Well,
it's widely available in pretty much any format you could desire.
If you're going for physical media, which is always a
nice way to go, Arrow has a nice blu ray edition.
It looks like would have probably been my pick if
my schedule had allowed it this week. But it's this

(23:06):
is you know, this is an Argento film, so it's
probably had just multiple rounds of releases with special editions
and so forth. Same could be said for the soundtrack.
All right, let's get into the people behind this film,

(23:28):
starting with Argento himself born nineteen forty, the director, the writer,
one of the producers, and of course he plays the
hands of the killers this time. What will our killer
be wearing? How would you describe these leather black leather
gloves with the gold zipper.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, that's exactly right. You can see there are lots
of zipping up the glove scenes getting ready. It's like,
what did we learned a name for that in the
cinema in the cinema space? You know the suiting up
scenes where you see people putting on their gear. I
forget the name for it, but we talked about that
in some movies last year. But this movie has suiting

(24:04):
up scenes where you see like somebody staring into a
mirror and putting like eyeliner on a crazy looking eye,
and then like zipping up the black gloves.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah yeah, all right, our Gento we almost I really
don't have to tell many of you who are gentle
is legendary Italian horror director, writer, and producer, celebrated for
his stylish contributions to not only Shallo and shallow adjacent cinema,
but to the global horror genre as a whole. Active
as a director from nineteen seventy with The Bird with

(24:34):
the Crystal Plumage through twenty twenty two's Dark Glasses. Now
he has not, as of this recording, like officially retired
or anything, and I was trying to figure out, like
what is he working on? Hard to say he may
or may not be remaking a nineteen forties Mexican film,
which is a tantalizing possibility, because there's a lot of great,

(24:55):
you know, Golden age Mexican cinema that even you know,
a late our Gento adaptation could be pretty fascinating. And
I think, you know, everybody's rooting for Argento to to
put something else out and like really sort of, you know,
I guess, kind of like finish up his career with
something really strong. Not that you have to, because, as

(25:16):
we'll discuss, so many strong Argento films in his filmography.
Unlike many of his fellow Italian horror directors, Argento almost
exclusively worked in horror directing as far as I can
tell only a single non horror film, nineteen seventy three's
The Five Days, a kind of comedy set during the
Italian Revolution. This was his film directly before Deep Red.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
That's funny. I thought he had done some other stuff,
but actually maybe I'm thinking of he wrote other stuff, right,
didn't direct it.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
He did write a number of genre films prior to
his directorial, but as far as things he actually directed,
I think this is the only one could be wrong.
He also did some TV projects, but I think those
were all more or less in the horror as well. Now, Yeah,
briefly though, our Gento followed his debut film, of which
we already mentioned with seventy one's The Cat of Nine

(26:08):
Tales and Four Flies on Gray Velvet, then Five Days
and which I just mentioned, and in seventy five Deep Red.
He followed this up with the all time classic Suspiria
in seventy seven, which I think you're supposed to be
more properly pronounced as Suspiria, right, Spurria trailer. Then nineteen

(26:30):
eighties Inferno eighty two, s tenebrae eighty five's Phenomena, eighty
seven's Opera just a heck of a run there. Like
seventies and eighties, our gento was simply genre defining.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
You know, we were just talking about movies where, for
some reason, English speakers don't translate the title, you let
it remain in another language, versus titles where you do.
Like so we call the Bird with the Crystal plumage
the bird with a crystal plumage, not the Italian version
of that. I don't know what it is, but we
don't translate titles like Suspiria and tenebrae there where we

(27:02):
say the original. Yeah, I think Suspiria means like size
and Latin.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah, size is not a good title at least, yeah,
not as English. But so Spiria, like that's great, Like
you don't even have to know what it means. You're
just you're drawn in. It's a fascinating word. So subsequent
decades of our gentle output, you know, haven't necessarily been
as strong, but still featured some notable titles and some

(27:27):
ambitious projects, including ninety six is the Stindell syndrome. That's
one where people fall into paintings and kiss fishes. So
you know, he's even his films that maybe don't have
as strong a following or didn't resonate with critics. I mean,
some of them have developed a cult following over time, certainly,
but I think a lot of more still like they're
really going for something like that. He was definitely making

(27:50):
some big swings, and he's continued to act as well,
not only playing killer hands but sometimes taking on more
pronounced dramatic roles. And again, his writing credits go back
to I think nineteen sixty six, with a mix of
genre films, and he also contributed to several screenplays on

(28:13):
films that he did not direct, but that he was
like at least loosely associated with.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
I just had an idea. I can't believe I've never
thought of this before. You know, those hands only cooking videos.
There's cooking shows where you'd never see the person's face.
You're just looking down hands making food. Or Jento should
make those right, And he wears the gloves and probably
he's a little bit violent, you know, he appeels the

(28:38):
potatoes with a needle or something. It takes a while,
but gets the job done.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
The first season of Look Around You has these science
experiments with a pair of hands conducting the experiments, and
there's one of the experiments where the hand, one of
the hands becomes scalded by boiling water. So the hand
then is adorned with a leather glove. And there are
several nods to Jallo in that particular episode, with it

(29:06):
not too overt, but in the way it's like caressing
and fondling various scientific paraphernalia. All right, let's go further
behind the camera here. The other credited writer is Bernardino
z a Pony who lived nineteen twenty seven through the
year two thousand, Italian screenwriter, best known internationally for his
collaborations with Federico Fellini and Tinto Brass. His Fellini films

(29:31):
include Toby Dammit, part of the anthology Spirits of the
Dead from nineteen sixty eight this is the one hit
Terrence Stamp in it, as well as Satiricon from sixty nine,
The Clowns from nineteen seventy, Roma from seventy two, Casanova
from seventy six, and City of Women from nineteen eighty.
His films with Brass consist of ninety one's Paprika and

(29:53):
ninety two's All Ladies Do It. He also worked with
Pasolini on sixty seven's The Witches and other films include
seventy five's Lenore and seventy six is Plot of Fear,
Oh in seventy sevens Lost Soul, and eighty one's Phantom
of Love. This was his only collaboration with our gento
no Bummer. They work well together apparently. Yeah, all right,

(30:15):
Getting into the cast. We mentioned David Hemmings already. He
plays our protagonist, the character Marcus Hemmings with nineteen forty
one through two thousand and three British actor, director and
something of a nineteen sixties cultural icon in his own right.
He started out as a child actor and a singer
that really came into his own during the nineteen sixties

(30:37):
following his lead role in the film blow Up. This
is set in like mod London, so very stylish affair
and also very very eye catching poster art that I
think everyone's probably seen if you spend any amount of
time in like a movie theater or a video store.

Speaker 3 (30:55):
Am I correct in thinking that a key plot detail
in blow Up is kind of like that that incriminating
detail that is at the beginning of so many Gallo
movies where there's like a the protagonist already has a
revelatory kind of clue in their possession, but they just
have to keep like zooming in to understand it.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Mm yeah, yeah, that's a good connection. Yeah, let's see.
Hemmings followed this up with see he was in the
film adaptation of the musical Camelot in sixty seven. Oh
and then a lot of you probably will recognize him
as the rebel leader dil Dano from sixty eight to
Barbarella if you don't remember specific plot elements or or

(31:36):
character names. The guy with the mustache from Barbarella.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
Not John Philip Lawa's character correctly.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
Not the angel yeah, and not Duran Durant, So let's see.
Hemmings filmography includes the various films that are now I
would say deeper cuts outside of their time, but that
seemed like they were a bigger deal when they came out,
some lower budget fair for sure, as well as roles
in noted blockbusters Towards the end of his career, so
he was in two thousands Gladiator, he was in two

(32:03):
thousand and two Gangs of New York, and his horror
output includes sixty six His Eye of the Devil, seventy
threes Voices, seventy nine thirst eighties Harlequin in eighty nine's
The Turn of the Screw. He was also a prolific
director in his own right, helming such films as seventy
eight's Just a Jigglo, that one's the one with David
Bowie in it, eighty one Survivor, and he also helmed

(32:26):
various TV show episodes.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Have you ever seen an Eye of the Devil?

Speaker 2 (32:30):
I have not seen Eye of the Devil the movie
or the actual Eye of the Devil.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
Maybe we should check that out sometimes. That one, it's
a little weird. It's got Sharon Tate in it, one
of her film roles, and it's got Donald Pleasance and
of course David Hemmings and David Niven. It's about like
a person who goes to a I don't know actually
now I'm forgetting some of the details, but somebody goes

(32:57):
out to like a country estate with the castle and
there is a be cult with hoods and robes all around.
And if I'm remembering the details correctly, David Hemmings plays
Sharon Tate's brother, and they're like a creepy, kind of
ambiguous brother and sister duo.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
Okay, all right, sounds interesting. Well, maybe we'll have to
come back to that one. As for Hemming's role here,
I think he's very good in this, and I think
we have to stress as well that while in Lesser
Jollo Fair this sort of character can be pretty trite,
you know, but Marcus here is far better developed. He's

(33:36):
an obsessive, flawed, often over confident man, and this I
think plays into what we were getting at. Like, here's
a character who early in the film is going to
acquire the pieces he needs to solve the mystery, but
it's not going to really be able to put it
all together. But he he has the abilities, and yet
he has overconfidence in his abilities at times to figure

(33:58):
it out. Like it's a great It all comes together
nicely on the screen.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
I think it's interesting that despite the dark and disturbing
subject matter that makes up the core plot of Deep Red,
the protagonist here, played by David Hemmings, is the subject
of a lot of fun. Like the movie has fun
at his expense. We are often laughing at his FOI.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Boles, Yeah, because he is he's flowed and over confident.
He's a bit of a sexist and gets called on
his sexism.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
There's an actually I thought hilarious scene where he gets
beaten at arm wrestling after like yelling at his girlfriend
about how men are stronger than women, and then she
beats him at arm wrestling and he's like, you cheated,
it's not fair.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah. Yeah. He gets to have multiple comedic scenes that
I thought were just perfectly balanced. Like, sometimes it gets
complicated because you have different eras, different different film cultures
that maybe have different ideas of how much humor you
should have in your horror film, and so sometimes things

(35:04):
can feel really out of balance, at least to us,
to modern viewers. But here it feels just about right.
Even though this is a dark, deep, and in many
way statistic film, the humor doesn't feel out of place.
It feels like a chance to sort of catch your
breath and maybe forget where you were for a minute
or two before things get dark again.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
Well it's grand gain, y'all. You know. It's the hot
and cold showers where the idea is that you would
get a you know, a frightening, disturbing short play followed
by a comedy sketch, and so it you know, takes
you back and forth and the contrast makes each one
more exciting and refreshing.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
All right. Up next, we have another actor that we
already mentioned, Daria Nickelode, playing the character Gianna. This is
our nosy reporter, another role that we've just come to
expect from genre films, but here she's a strong, confident
character played by Italian actress and frequent Argento collaborator Nickelode, also,

(35:58):
of course, one time a romantic partner and mother of
their daughter Aja Argento. She lived nineteen forty nine through
twenty twenty, and she appeared in five films directed by
Argento between seventy five and eighty seven. We have Deep Red,
but also Inferno, Tinebray, Phenomena and Opera. In fact, I

(36:19):
believe the two of them met on this film, so
professional relationship giving away to romantic relationship. She also has
screenplay credits on Suspiria and Inferno, but may have contributed
to others in an uncredited capacity during their time together.
Her other film credits include Mario Bava's final film Shock
from seventy seven.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
I'm trying to remember if I've seen that one.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
I have not that I have not seen Bava's Mario
Bava's later.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
Work Beyond the Door too. What I just looked it up,
and it's known it was released in the US as
Beyond the Door too, which is hilarious because have you
seen Beyond the Door?

Speaker 2 (37:00):
No, this is a foro Italian film, but I'm not
familiar with this. What's the deal on it?

Speaker 3 (37:06):
Beyond the Door is an Italian ripoff of the Exorsus.
That is we I think maybe we should watch it?

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (37:14):
Really, yeah, it's pretty wild.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
We could probably. It's kind of like with Jaws. We
could probably do a solid month or many months of
just exorcist ripoffs from other countries, because I've seen some
some Spanish exorcist ripoffs. All right, we'll remember that one.
But as for Nickelode here, solid presence here. I think
she's great.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
Yeah, I agree, and I would say probably, especially if
you watch this longer cut that I watched, which has
all these restored scenes, and again, I really get the
impression that most of what's restored has to do with
her character, building her out more.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
All right, let's see up next. We have the character Carlo,
played by Gabrielle Lavia born nineteen forty two. Talent and
a well known Italian stage actor, active on screen and
TV from about sixty six through twenty twenty two, and
as a director and writer from eighty three through twenty
twenty one. In fact, he directed, co wrote, and starred

(38:14):
in a nineteen eighty three film titled Believe This is
the Prince of Homburg and an historical drama that was
apparently well regarded upon release. But I see few signs
of it today. Maybe it's more prominent, prominently discussed on
Italian language websites and so forth, but like on letterboxed
and so forth, I just don't see people talking about

(38:34):
what this film even really is. But it looked like
it was nominated for various awards when it came out,
As is often the case, sometimes it's the genre films
that of course resonate internationally in a stronger fashion. And
so yeah. Lavia's other films include nineteen seventy fours Beyond
the Door, which I had in the notes here and

(38:55):
we just talked about. He was also in a film
the same year titled The Tempter. He was in Inferno,
playing a different character, also named Carlo. I think, okay,
it's just a nod back to this film. He's an
a don't remember who that is. I have seen Inferno,
but I think it's a supporting character. I don't remember
him either from it. I think I've seen Inferno, but
it's been a while. He's an eighty three Zetter and

(39:17):
he's in another Argenta film, Sleepless from two thousand and one.
So Lavia here really solid, and I would say that
his scenes with Himmings especially have a lot of character.
I don't know if they had any additional scenes together
in the extended version that you watched or not, but
the ones I saw they had great chemistry.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
I thought they did well. Actually I can't be sure,
but I think the version you saw probably didn't have
the scene where they after they talk, they go out
together and they go to the bar and they play
piano together on the same piano.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
I didn't know. Now I really want to see that
because that's one of the whole things is they're both
pianists and they have this discussion about how they have
different philosophies and politics regarding their profession. So Carlo is
playing piano to survive, where as as Marcus is more
of a he's a professional. It's his career and he's

(40:13):
he's ascending via the piano.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
The way Carlo explains it is he says that he
says that Marcus is a bourgeois artist who you know,
is a professional. Yeah, he does it because he has ideas.
Whereas he says about himself, he says, I, Carlo am
a proletarian artist. I play music because it's the only
way I can make money, and thus my music is

(40:37):
actually more pure than yours.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah. Yeah, so Carlo. We'll discuss more about Carlo when
we get into the plot. But you know, obviously a
complex character that is ultimately just fascinating in the way
that it's realized on the screen.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
I quite sympathetic and tragic, even before some of the
developments that come at the end of the film, like
early on when there's just scenes of them talking together,
when Carlo is drinking. You know, Carlo is like drunk
out in a piazza and they're having a conversation together,
and there is a great kind of wise sadness about him.

(41:16):
It really works.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yeah, absolutely, all right. We mentioned there was a psychic
in the film. The psychic is the character Helga played
by Masha Morel born nineteen forty. She's a German psychic

(41:37):
played here by a French model turned actress of Russian
and Ukrainian descent. She was already an established name in
eurocinema at this point, having worked with multiple big name directors.
She'd worked with Jean lu Gotter a married Woman in
sixty four, She'd worked with Louis Bounel Belldajour in sixty seven,

(41:59):
and then right after this she'd worked with She would
go on to work with Renier Werner of Fastpender in
seventy six in the movie Chinese Roulette. Other films of
note include eighty five's Vagabond and seventy five's Last Stop
on the Night Train. So a stylish and doomed character,

(42:20):
as we'll discuss our psychic discovers who the killer is
way too early in the film, even before there are
any present day murders, So you know it's not going
to end well for her.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
I think we're going to have an amazing discussion about
what it means the way she takes a sip of water.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yes, yes, there's a lot of water falling out of
people's mouths in this movie. It was a distinctive choice.
I think I've noticed it three times. Hers is the
most pronounced I think in a couple of the murder
or attack scenes, we see either water or some other
liquid that is not blood coming out of someone's mouth.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
Interesting, okay, yeah, and we can check in about that later.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah, all right, we we have some additional investigators. So
we have Professor Giordani played by Gloco Mai who lived
nineteen thirty through twenty twenty four. This is our the
character is our parapsychologist, and the actor is an Italian
actor and theater director who was a specially active in

(43:21):
Shakespearean theater. Again, one of these characters who I think
was far more active on the stage in Italy, and
this is perhaps his best known film, certainly internationally. The
stage is where we would find most of his prestige.
But he's very good here and is at times kind
of our central character. Like there's a point in the
film not long before he dies, really where he's like

(43:44):
out on his own side quest and Marcus listen, even
along for the ride.

Speaker 3 (43:48):
Yeah, he's doing some investigating and he figures out a
message written by one of the previous murder victims. And
I'm going to be honest, I did not figure out
what that message was or what it contributed to the solution, did.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
You think, Well, he saw the full so basically, as
we'll discuss the situation is, he figures out that the
murder victim wrote on the steamed up mirror wall wrote something,
but we don't get to read the full ride out.
We get to read like the killer is. And I
was to assume, maybe this is I'm interpreting it incorrectly,

(44:21):
but I thought he read the whole thing, so like
he knew who the killer was, or he had some
vital clue and he didn't get to pass that on
to chief investigator Marcus okay, unofficial investigation hierarchy.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
That would all make sense. I just I never got
any indication that what she had written was the killer's name. Yeah,
I just saw like she wrote something, and then we
never get a good look at it.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Very stylish scene. Not the only film with great use
of mirrors, but one of them in this movie. All right, Now,
there's another professor that's kind of helping out somewhere in
the parapsychology department. And this is the character Professor Bardie,
played by Piro Matt Singhi. I'm not sure what his
dates happened to be. His other credits include seventy four

(45:07):
is the night Porter. Apparently he was a graphic designer
or illustrator and art director who just kind of pops
up in the corners of this film and a few others.

Speaker 3 (45:16):
He always has a vaguely comic presence. I don't know
quite why, but yeah, in all the scenes he's in,
he's kind of there smirking in the background. Isn't he
the guy who's like, oh, by the way, this song
you heard, you should go look up a book about
that song. That'll tell you who the killer is.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Yeah? Yeah, so he has some important suggestions for the
investigation yet, but I don't think he He doesn't even
We don't even bother to murder this guy, right, I
don't murder not in my cut.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
Though, there are some some implied murders in the movie,
do you know what I'm talking about? For example, the
maid who is cleaning up Amanda Righetti's house, remember this.
After Professor Jordani leaves, we see the maid like hear
a sound down the hall and she's like, what is
that and then starts to go investigate, and then we

(46:06):
never see her again. So I think there are at
least some characters who we understand have probably been murdered,
but we never find out that's true.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
That's true. Now we mentioned Carlo earlier, Carlo's mother often
shows up. Joke. Does Carlo's mother have a name? I
think on IMDb she just listened to Carlo's mother.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
I don't remember this from the movie, but on the
wiki that says her name is Martha, So that sounds right.
So Carlo's mother is Martha. We have some interesting little
meetings with her earlier in the film, where Marcus is
looking for Carlo and goes to her apartment, and she
keeps thinking he's an engineer instead of a pianist. Of
like a common mistake. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But she also

(46:44):
recurring humor. She likes to she seems a little bit,
a little bit confused about what's going on, and she
often refers to the fact that she used to be
an actress.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
Yes, and that's a nice little detail because the actress
playing her is a classic Italian actress. This is Clara Kalamai,
who of nineteen oh nine through nineteen ninety eight. Her
credits go back to the late thirties and she was
acclaimed for roles in a string of nineteen forties historical dramas.

(47:14):
This is getting and we're talking like big pictures, like
not the genre stuff from Italian cinema that I'm more
informed about. But I was reading that she's considered kind
of a bridge between two distinct periods of Italian cinema,
the White Telephone era, which is like this escapist era
of thirties and forties Italian cinema with white telephones, apparently

(47:37):
serving as a stark contrast between the style and the
wealth on screen and the grim realities of the war
torn fascist state. And then she goes on from this
into neorealism, Italian neorealism, which emerges post warld War two.
So by the time Deep Red comes out, she'd already

(47:58):
pretty much retired but came back for this film, and
I think she did one other film before retiring for good.
But Argento apparently wanted an actress with like a classic
cinematic appeal, because in part because that's kind of what
she's playing. She's kind of playing. I'm not saying she's
playing herself, but she's playing like maybe some take on

(48:19):
the sort of actress that she was. All Right, let's
see other characters of note. I'm going to try and
skip ahead here. You know, we have characters that come
up that are important. They catch a murder or two,
but then we move on. There's a character named Massimo
introduced as Carlo's romantic partner, played here by Geraldine Hooper.

(48:40):
So it's an interesting bit of casting because we have
a female actor playing a character with a masculine Italian name,
but whose gender identity would seem to be feminine or
non binary. Hooper was a British actress with a handful
of mostly bit parts in such films as seventies Queens
of Evil and seventy one's they have changed their face,

(49:00):
but very small role at least in the cut I watch.
I don't know if this character has additional scenes. We
don't really get to know this character at least in
the version of the film I watch, but her performance
plays an important role.

Speaker 3 (49:14):
Yeah, it's an interesting scene. So the setup is that
Marcus is looking for his friend Carlo. He goes to
Carlo's mother's apartment. That's when we get this weird meeting
where she's like, I used to be an actress, but
somehow she sends him to this other apartment where Carlo
might be found and when Marcus gets there, he meets
this character Massimo, and you think, based on the very

(49:36):
first interaction, like it seemed to me like, oh, no,
is this being set up as kind of a homophobic
reaction From what I from the context in the scene,
it made it seem like this is the first time
that Marcus discovers that Carlo is gay, but he actually

(49:57):
in the scene doesn't really go that way. He comes
in and then he kind of tries to be a
good friend, and then like together Marcus and Massimo talk
about Carlo's problems and how they're like both trying to
help him.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Yeah, it's a it's a very humanizing scene and kind
of a breath of fresh air. I'm really a breath
of fresh air. Though at this point in the film,
like you're still in a genre movie. If you haven't
seen it before, you don't know how things are gonna
ultimately land. Yeah, but looking back on it still, I
think it was a very nice scene.

Speaker 3 (50:26):
I would say that Jallo films overall are not known
for having super cool thoughts about gender and sexuality.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
No, I mean you can basically say that of genre
films from throughout the nineteen seventies, So but not the
place you're gonna find it. But you do find it sometimes,
but it's just it's an exception when you do this movie.

Speaker 3 (50:47):
Though it didn't end up going in a bad direction
that it felt like it might be going. It actually
ended up being kind of like a sweet and interesting scene.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Yeah, And I think it'll be interesting to discuss this
once all the cards are on the table, because I
believe this film is intentionally subversive in that, like it
is taking certain genre staples and stereotypes, cinematic stereotypes, and
also stereotypes that are probably in the viewer's mind as

(51:18):
well either, I mean, stereotypes that they're bringing into a
cinematic experience and probably bringing into real life as well,
and then taking those and then subverting expectations. So yeah,
we'll get back to that. Let's see rounding of the cast.
Just a couple of small roles that I just want
to mention because of their connection to other horror films.

(51:39):
Nicoletta Elmi is in it playing Olga. This is the
creepy redheaded girl from Footprints on the Moon that we
watched last year.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
Yep, actually in both movies, if I'm remembering her right.
In Footprints on the Moon. It's a character who shows
up to be like a kind of strange, haunting child
presence who had first seen weird and threatening, but then
they turn out to be harmless.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
Yeah, and I think she gets slapped around by the
protagonist Footprints, and here she just gets kind of like
strong armed. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
In both movies she's treated badly by adults Summer, but
here she ultimately ends up being the able to give
the protagonists the clue that, oh, if we just go
to a certain middle school and look at every drawing
ever made by a child there, we'll find the drawing
that will unlock the mystery.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
That's right, And they do. But yeah, fun Little just
sort of almost an Easter egg for horror fans because
she was also in Bava's Bay of Blood as well
as Baron Blood. She's in seventy three's Flesh for Frankenstein,
and she's the grown up redhead in nineteen eighty five
Demons Now, and even Trashire Deep Cut. Though there's a
scene where we see a fruit vendor in the street,

(52:52):
a very distinctive looking man. This is Salvatory Bacco, who
lived nineteen thirty two through nineteen eighty four. He was
an actual flower vendor outside of some Italian film studios,
but then got cast because of his distinctive looks, frequently
cast as heavies and beast men, cave men and the like.

(53:13):
He was definitely in some sludge in his day, and
I think some like spaghetti westerns as well.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
Oh okay, I'm not super familiar, but well.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
He pops up. Let's see the cinema. We have to
mention the cinematographer because of the look of this film.
We can't reference everybody, but Luigi Cuvolar lived nineteen twenty
seven through twenty thirteen, noted Italian cinematographer who worked with
the likes of Billy Wilder, Paul Morrissey and Luccio Fulci.
And then finally the music. We've already talked about this

(53:45):
a little bit. There are two individuals quote to There's Goblin,
of course, which we'll get to, but then also we
have Giorgio Gazzlini, who is credited as well, who lived
nineteen twenty nine through twenty fourteen. He was a composer
and jazz pianist, and he apparently composed the initial score

(54:07):
and then our Gento wasn't really happy with all of it,
and said, okay, let's bring in Pink Floyd. I don't
know the full I don't know he actually reached out
to Pink Floyd or he was like, we need something
like Pink Floyd. But this leads to him checking out
a more local prog rock group by the name of Goblin,

(54:28):
headed up by Claudio Seminetti born nineteen fifty two.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
It was destiny, a match made in heaven.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
So some of the GOSLINI tracks apparently remain, it's like
three or four tracks. Some of them have been re
recorded by Goblin. So I'm just guessing here. I'm no
score expert, but I think maybe the indeed the jazzy
or piano numbers, or perhaps his compositions, And of course

(54:55):
you know Goblin. When you hear Goblin that key deep
red theme song that gets stuck in your head, you
know that's totally their work. This is interesting because this
is of course, this is of course Argento's first collaboration with Goblin,
and indeed Goblin's first film score. Many more would follow.
They would go on to become a huge part of

(55:16):
the sound of Jallo and Italian genre cinema of the
seventies and eighties seminettes work as a solo artist as well.
We've previously discussed him independently as an independent artist on
our episodes concerning Let's See eighty three's Conquest from Fulci.
I'm wearing my Conquest shirt today, and then eighty six
is hands of Steel.

Speaker 3 (55:37):
If only I could be wearing my Hands of Steel today.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
You know their hands of Steel shirts out there somewhere. Yeah,
what can you say?

Speaker 3 (55:46):
Amazing score, right, wonderful. In fact, if you're ready to
switch over and talk about the plot a bit, one
of the first notes I had was about the opening music. Yeah,
let's do it so in general about the plot section.
I think maybe we should do some close narration of
the opening few scenes and then shift to a more
general discussion for the rest of the movie. But yeah,

(56:07):
so we open the film with music playing over credits,
and visually it's a pretty straightforward credit sequence. It's sans
serif text on a black background, and I love the
main musical theme of Deep Red that's playing over this.
I think it is really interesting how the primary riff

(56:29):
that you hear repeated in this song is sort of
the structure that everything else builds around. Is a musical
phrase on a harpsichord that I think communicates this feeling
of stuttering or disordered thought. The way this riff has
always sounded to me is the musical equivalent of somebody rapidly,

(56:54):
repeatedly saying the first few words of sentences without finishing them.
So if you can kind of match what I'm about
to say to the riff in the song, it's like
I would, would you if I would? If we could.
It's that kind of feeling.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Hmmm, Okay, now you said this is this is on
a harpsichord, though this is not synth.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
Well they're synth in the song, but the main riff
you're probably hearing in your head that thing, well you'll
get that on a couple of instruments in the track.
So I think at one point it might be being
plucked on an acoustic or classical guitar. I'm not sure,
but the main version that sticks out with the high

(57:35):
pitched ringing is on a harpsichord. And I looked this up.
They used a real harpsichord here, so it's not a synthesizer.
It's a real harpsichord. Being played by Goblin keyboardist Claudio Simonetti.
And then below that you've got you've got a rhythm section.
Of course, you've got a bassline that's played on an
electric bass with this great, really plucky, hollow percussive sound.

(57:59):
And then up top there is an extremely high pitched,
almost painful to the ears lead melody played on synthesizer
with this metallic whistle like voicing. I'm not sure what
kind of synthesizer this is played on. It might be
a minimog. I think they did use a minimog for
some of the synth in this movie. But the way

(58:20):
the high pitched lead and the bass fit together, they
almost form these counter melodies playing off of this machine,
like stuttering from the harpsichord, and it's just so cool.
I couldn't love this theme more.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Yeah. Like I said, I've been listening to this particular
number for years, popping up in mixes and so forth.
It's just so good.

Speaker 3 (58:41):
Yeah. And also when we hear more of this theme
later on, it will introduce other instruments, so you end
up getting organ. I wonder, I don't remember for sure,
but the organ might be playing on one of those
on a Leslie speaker on a rotating speaker that creates
this whirling effect, and you get a electric guitar and
drums and it builds up to you this bombastic crescendo.

(59:05):
But anyway, in the opening, before we get to this
big part of the song, we actually cut away to
an opening scene. It's the first action we see. I'll
come back and describe that in just a second. But
one of the things, Rob, if this makes any sense,
one of the things I like so much about the
Deep Red theme is how it feels old world and

(59:26):
new world at the same time. The harpsichord creates this
feeling of antiquity. It very much fits with all of
the old architecture and sculpture that we see throughout the film.
It's very baroque, almost like you know js Bach, and
yet it's a proud rock song. So you have this
electric bass, maybe with some kind of modulation on it.

(59:48):
You've got the drums and the synthesizers, and it's groovy
and it is very rocking, but it has this baroque
harpsichord thing as like the main texture that runs through
the whole song.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Okay, this is good. It's this interesting analysis.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Okay, So anyway, what's this opening scene that we get
in the middle of the credits. It seems to be
a flashback. We're looking at the interior of a house
sometime in the nineteen fifties, seems to be in Italy,
and it's a room decorated for Christmas. This room will
play play a big role in the film.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Yeah, a Christmas film. I can't believe we didn't consider
this one for Last Night.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
We should have. So you get a tree with a
bunch of ornaments and tensil, and there is a dining
room table with a bunch of half empty wine glasses
on it. There's a record player. Rob did you notice
that the crazy wallpaper and the pattern on the dining
room tablecloth almost look like they match. I really assumed
in they don't actually match that that would have been amazing,

(01:00:47):
but they're close. And then so we're looking at this
room at Christmas time. And the opening shot here in
the room is weird because it is it is shot
from like three inches above the hardwood floor, almost like
we're seeing the room from the perspective of someone lying

(01:01:07):
down on the floor. And then we hear a child's
voice singing a creepy song without lyrics. It's just some
la la las. But this song we will hear it
a bunch of times in the film, not nearly as
good as the Goblin song. And then suddenly we see
shadows on the wall. There are two human silhouettes. One

(01:01:28):
shadow is stabbing the other one with a knife. We
don't see who's casting the shadows. And then after the
stabbing is finished, the perpetrator relaxes posture and walks away,
and then we see a bloody knife clatter to the
floor right in front of the camera, and then into
frame step a pair of feet, children's feet, so it's
a child in black shoes and tall socks walking up

(01:01:52):
to this cast a side knife as if to pick
it up. And then the scene ends and we just
smash back to credits and Goblin.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
So we've established a murder in the past before we
fast forward into the present day.

Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
Even in the nineteen fifties, though, did kids wear like,
you know, knee high socks and shoes like this at home?
This just seems uncomfortable, don't you. When you get home.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
It's Christmas or some I mean, and their gifts still
under the tree. So I'm to assume this is maybe
Christmas Eve. I don't know when the depends when the
presents are opened, given the household tradition, but maybe it
was a special dinner and therefore everyone's stressed up.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
So we get a scene where we meet our protagonist,
Marcus Daley, who is a jazz piano player, a band leader,
and a music conservatory instructor. We learn later that he's
originally from England but now living in Rome. And when
we meet Marcus, he is rehearsing with his jazz band
in an awesome I'm at first I did not know

(01:03:02):
what the space was, but I looked it up. I'm
gonna get to that in just a second. It looks
like the inner sanctum of a temple of Jupiter. It's
this huge circular space ringed with marble columns, and then
light falling down from a skylight above, and Marcus has
his piano pushed right up against this stone box in
the middle of the room that looks like an altar.

(01:03:25):
So I looked up the actual location. It's kind of
unbelievable they shot this at a real place in Rome.
It is the fourth century mausoleum of Constantina, The daughter
of Constantine the first, the first Christian emperor. So his
adult daughter's grave here her you know, tomb is and

(01:03:47):
this was the mausoleum was later turned into a church.
And then they actually shot a jazz practice scene for
Deep Red Inside.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Oh wow. Now I have to note the version of
the film I watch does not feature scene. We go
straight to the sequence afterwards, but it does. This sounds
stunning and I love this detail. You're going to get
into in a bit here that perhaps a meta commentary
on the film and horror films in general.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
So they're playing music and Marcus stops his band in
the middle of a song to give them some direction.
He says, you know, you guys are doing a great job,
good effort. But there's a problem. He says, it's too good.
You're playing is too precise, it's too formal. He says,
this is a quote. It should be more trashy. And
he explains that the kind of jazz he's interested in

(01:04:38):
playing was invented in Brothels and it should sound that way.
And so I was just thinking, wait a minute, is
this a meta commentary. It's like a great way to
open a jallo film.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
Either way, needs more trash.

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
But coming back to the fact that so this scene
wasn't in your version. You know, I've seen people talk
about the virtues of the different cuts of the film.
This was one of the scenes with Italian audio, so
I think it was definitely added back in for this
particular release. I was watching, and yeah, I think maybe

(01:05:12):
you could go either way. Like I like the perhaps
meta commentary about needing more trashiness. I think it's nice
to see our protagonist in his element before we meet
him on the night that changes his life. But I
would agree that it is probably a stronger, more vigorous,
and grabbier way to start the film if we go

(01:05:33):
straight from the credits to what comes next, which is
the psychic demonstration scene.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
Right the parapsychology conference that is of course central to
the plot and also just visually stunning. We go right
from the credits into this just visually stunning sequence with
some amazing Hitchcock esque long tracking shots. They take us
into the auditorium where the parapsychology conference is taking place.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
And then later out into the bathroom.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
Yeah, and then you're out into the bathroom. But yeah,
it's also I think key because this is a very
red room. I mean, the rosso here is very profundo.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
Yeah, so this was shot in another location I looked up.
This was the Teatro Carignano in Turin, which several of
the locations in this movie are in Turin or to Reno, Italy.
So this is a beautiful theater with this red and
gold color theme, built in the late eighteenth century. Apparently
at one point it burned down but then was restored.

(01:06:32):
Overwhelming sensations of like opera and blood and champagne. It's
really cool space. And yeah, so here's where this we're
what we see, based on a sign, is going to
be the World Parapsychology Congress. First we see the poster
and then suddenly we're inside the lobby for the event,
and we're just gliding along past the ushers toward the

(01:06:54):
auditorium and we hear a professor's voice delivering a lecture
about telepathy. There are a lot of wonderful moving camera
shots in this film, but I would like to note
a special eerie quality they have, and this one illustrates
it nicely. So you've got to here. I guess I
don't know if it's a dolly shot or a steady

(01:07:16):
cam shot, but it's a smooth, gliding moving camera going
through the space of the lobby into the auditorium, and
it's shot at human eye level, so we get a
strong feeling of moving point of view. We're seeing through
somebody's eyes as they move through this scene, but there's
no indication whatsoever of whose point of view we're getting.

(01:07:38):
We are seeing through the eyes of a mystery, and
that's kind of an unsettling feeling in itself. We don't
know whose perspective we're sharing. But then also there are
these other eerie things the way, Rob do you remember
the shot as the camera approaches the auditorium, the curtains
in the door to the event suddenly part without being

(01:08:00):
touched as the camera approaches them. It's as if these
portals are just opening in front of us by magic.
It's kind of like we got movie signs, you know, yeah, exactly,
the doors are just opening. But then also the camera
movement is very smooth. It doesn't have the bounce that
we associate with a human point of view when we
are walking through a room, so it's got this agentic

(01:08:22):
human point of view quality, but it's gliding smoothly through
the air, so it seems a little unnatural.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
Yeah, I think I've seen this referred to what is
a decoupled POV shot. So creates this weird sense of like,
whose point of view is this? Is this the killer?
Is this a ghost? Or is this like something a
little more vague and something that is at once a

(01:08:49):
character in the film and also just like a sort
of an extension of us the viewer in a cinematic world.

Speaker 3 (01:08:57):
So we come into the auditorium and there is a
parapsychologist named a Professor Giordani on stage delivering a lecture
on telepathic communication, and then beside him at this table
speaker's table, or a couple of other people. One of them,
we will learn, is a psychic named Helga Ullman. I
want to read part of this lecture that Giordani is

(01:09:18):
giving because I thought this was interesting. He says, this
is in translation, because this part of the lecture in
my cut was in Italian, but I looked up a translation,
so he says quote. The phenomenon, as confirmed by the
most recent studies, is not limited to higher species, but
includes both vertebrates and invertebrates, butterflies, termites, zebras, all these

(01:09:41):
animals and many others use telepathy to give orders and
exchange information. This fact is well known and can be
easily demonstrated. For example, if we cage a butterfly within
a few hours, it will be able to attract numerous
other butterflies that, at its call will flock together in
rapid flocks, even covering several kilometers. This is telepathy, a

(01:10:03):
faculty that newborns possess well in their first months in
the first months of their lives, but which they lose
as with the passing of the years they acquire the
means of verbal communication. There are some exceptions. Certain individuals,
for reasons still unknown to us, do not lose this faculty. So,
as we mentioned already, this is a movie in which

(01:10:25):
psychic powers are real, but they're not just real. We
get a scientific explanation of how they're supposed to work.
Some animals possess these power or I guess not how
they work, but some things about when they work. Some
animals possess these powers. All humans are born psychics, but
we lose our psychic powers somehow when we acquire language.

(01:10:49):
Except in a few rare exceptions, a few people can
gain language, but still keep the power to read minds,
and they say, Helga Ullman, the psychic sitting beside him
is one of these exceptions. Interesting. I don't know, do
you know if this is a common theory that like
parapsychologists had, that like everybody's born psychic, but you lose

(01:11:10):
it when you learn words.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
I have not explored it myself. It sounds convincingly like
something you would hear from parapsychologists, and you know, it's
kind of a neat idea. I guess the idea being
that humans are all psychic and then we lose again.
We lose the psychic power because we acquire language, and
therefore there's no need to communicate psychically anymore, and it's

(01:11:34):
like an energy intensive thing that we no longer need
to do, or just all babies lose Or is it
because we lost our psychic abilities so we had to
develop language. I guess you could look at it either way.
This film's not really concerned with such questions, but stop provoking.

Speaker 3 (01:11:51):
There might be something going on with it thematically. I
don't know something about the idea of perceptive powers that
are lost or something that we can't see once we
start to talk about things that, like the talking clouds
our minds in some way, I see that maybe we'll
come back to that possibly, But anyway, so we go

(01:12:11):
on with Helga here, and Helga starts to talk. She
explains that her powers, she says, my powers have nothing
to do with magic, and they are not fortune telling,
she says, in fact, she has no ability whatsoever to
predict or see the future. Instead, what she sees are
people's thoughts, other people's thoughts at the moment they arise,

(01:12:33):
or sometimes, she says, if the thoughts are very strong,
she can detect them after they have arisen, she says,
quote for they linger about the room like cobwebs, and
she does a brief demonstration where she reads the mind
of a man in the third row. She tells him,
you know, here's what you've got in your pockets. Here's
some personal details about you, and he confirms that she

(01:12:55):
got everything right. But in the middle of this demonstration,
suddenly Helga is seized by something powerful and she starts
to gasp and cry out in fear and pain, and
Professor Jordani, next to her, asks her if she's all right,
and she says she says, it was I can't explain it.
Something strange and sharp, like the prick of a thorn.

(01:13:18):
It upset me. But it's all right now. But it's
not all right because she gasps again, Oh Dad, it's
in there again. And she she's like, I can feel
death in this room. I feel a presence, a twisted
mind sending me thoughts, perverted, murderous thoughts. Go away. You
have killed and you will kill again.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
And this is where she has the airplane drinking problem,
where she tries to drink water and it just falls
out of her mouth.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
Yeah, so yeah, he gives her a glass of water.
We get an extreme close up of her mouth. Her
lips are actually she's got lipstick on, so her lips
are deep red, and she takes a sip of water
and it just like drools out all over her chin.
And then she also says that she hears a child
singing a song in the house. I think that'll connect

(01:14:03):
to the song we heard earlier. She says, death, blood.
We must hide everything, everything in the house back the
way it was, and then she collapses in fear. Here
Suddenly we cut away back to the point of viewshot
of someone unknown, probably the same person who we were
with when we came into the auditorium. This unknown person

(01:14:24):
stands up from one of the rows in the audience,
and while Helga is having this episode on the stage,
this unknown person moves down the row and they make
their way out to the exit. They go to the
bathroom and then go to the sink. And I really
loved this bathroom, this squalid, almost science fiction bathroom with

(01:14:45):
these gray tiles on every surface. There's something about the
lack of furniture or fixtures that makes this room very weird.
And then the mirror is tiny and degraded, so you
can't see anything in it. So we get a point
of shot of this character looking into the mirror, but
they are just a pale blurb. Basically, the mirror almost

(01:15:06):
looks kind of diseased, like the silver ring is eaten away.
In all these places and great location. Yeah, it feels
like I said out of THX eleven thirty eight.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
Yea. Now I have a quick question. As I was
watching the film at this point and we sell the
character get up and leave, part of me was tempted
to do something that, of course the original audience would
not have been able to do. And that's rewind the
film and see if I could piece together who in
the audience had just risen from their seat. I don't
know if that's actually possible. I haven't. I didn't have

(01:15:38):
time to attempt it, but it would make it in
a way, it would make sense that the film would
contain that spoiler. But also it might be it might
not be revealed.

Speaker 3 (01:15:48):
So I don't know if you can see anything in
this scene. But there is a scene later the scene
where where Marcus gets his clue that he will be
trying to make sense of the rest of the film.
If you know what to look for in the scene,
you will absolutely see the killer's identity in that scene.
But it goes by so fast. If you don't know
to look out for it, you're not you're probably not

(01:16:09):
going to see it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
Nice well, I like the consistency there.

Speaker 3 (01:16:12):
Yeah, So anyway, this point of view character we've been following,
they seem to be in distress. They're leaning over the sink,
and a man on the way walking past asks them
if they need help. But this person never speaks, so
we get no clues about their identity. And then after
the man walks away and goes through the door, we
see suddenly black gloves being pulled on, black gloves with

(01:16:34):
gold zippers, and ooh, that'll just you know, if you
know what Ajallo is, that'll just get you going, like,
here's what it's about to happen. But it's actually not
about to happen just yet. It will be a gap
in time.

Speaker 2 (01:16:46):
Yeah. The character, whoever they may be, is saying, it's
time to get those gloves out again. I've been keeping
those gloves for a reason, and now that reason has arrived.
And this is another scene where there are various other
clues that can be important later on when you're looking
back on it. But I'm not going to get into
everything otherwise, we're just we're trotting out every detail at
every scene, but there's some bathroom specific details here that

(01:17:09):
could be important later on as well.

Speaker 3 (01:17:10):
Yeah, and then also there is a little scene after
this where we're still in the same point of view
and this person is watching Helga Ulman speak to Professor
Giordani after the event's over, so they're spying from the wings,
and I think in the scene Helga is she gives
away that she has incriminating information about the killer because

(01:17:31):
she mine melded with them I don't know if she
can go to the police and say I psychically read
someone's mind and I know that they're a murderer now.

Speaker 2 (01:17:37):
Yeah, yeah, and she suspects they will kill again again.
She can't see the future, but she can tell this
person is up for more murders if need to be.
And you know, it doesn't look good for our psyche
because again she just she just revealed to the entire audience,
including the killer, that I know what's up. I know
who you are.

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):
But then from out of this, I think this is
the moment where or we just blast out of a
canon into this almost music video style sequence that is awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
Oh yeah, a tremendous object fetishization decoupled POV sequence where
the audience seems to be asked to consider the power
and symbolism of a number of artifacts, and at the
same time we seem to be seeing them through the
presumed killer's eyes, all set to that glorious Goblin theme music.
You know, we get the idea of this. Okay, here's

(01:18:29):
a knife, and this knife is a holy thing, and
and then there are various other objects that are displayed.
Each one is presented to us as if like, here's
some clues. See if you can make something of this,
but also like, these are fetishes that the killer is
fawning over.

Speaker 3 (01:18:47):
A lot of the objects are toys. There are dolls,
there's a toy devil. There are marbles. I think they're
on feldt It looks like is that right? They look
like they might be on a pool table or something.
But yeah, then Gloves and Nie. After this, we're going

(01:19:10):
to come back and meet up with Marcus again, or
if you're watching a different cut of the film, this
will probably be the first time you meet Marcus where
he is out on this piazza at night. And this is,
by the way, we could go ahead and mention what
this space is, because it's another wonderful location, this big
empty piazza in the nighttime that is just radiating emptiness

(01:19:34):
if emptiness itself is a presence. It's here and it's
very cool. So I looked up where this is. It's
called Well, so the movie is supposed to take place
in Rome, but this is yet another real location in Turin.
It's called the Piazza CLN in Turin or Terino. So yeah,

(01:19:55):
big empty space, but it has these twin statue of
reclining gods. There's a god and a goddess. They're both
kind of like leaning back, like they're really relaxing. They're
huge statues up on these stone pedestals with fountains that
pour water out from under the gods into these pools.

(01:20:17):
And then in the not in real life, but in
the movie, there is a cross from these statues, actually
not across from them, but sort of sideways to them,
there is a bar called, I think the Blue Bar,
and we're gonna learn that this is where Carlo plays
piano usually.

Speaker 2 (01:20:34):
Yeah, clearly patterned on Edward Hopper's Nighthawks painting. Yes, looks great. Yeah,
but I get the impression they constructed it or positioned
it here as part of the production. But also the square.
This of course brings to mine a particular scene in Suspiria,
particular sequence in Suspiria that makes use of a great,

(01:20:56):
big depopulated e liminal space like this.

Speaker 3 (01:20:59):
Yeah, there's a big empty space in the scene in
Suspiria where the piano player actually is another piano player character.
The blind piano player is attacked by like the fluttering witches,
and then there's a misdirection in that murder scene that
I don't know, I don't want to spoil if you've
never seen Suspiria, but very cool also with the big
open empty space and the night sky above. So in

(01:21:21):
this scene we're going to get the first meeting between
Marcus and Carlo. We've already talked a bit about their friendship.
Anything else you want to say about it? Here about
their conversation. Carlo has some philosophical thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
Yeah, we discussed this a little bit already about how
they just have different takes on the profession. You know,
one is a one is a pianist, the other is
a piano fighter in a sense. And yeah, it's just
a It's a great scene, beautifully shot, raw in so
many ways, revealing of their characters. I really liked it
a lot, one of several great scenes between these two.

Speaker 3 (01:21:55):
But this is building up actually to the iconic first
murder scene in the movie. I guess the first real
murder scene where in an apartment overlooking the same piazza.
So in a window up above in her apartment is Olga,
the psychic from the demonstration earlier. Oh and I totally
forgot to mention this, but did you notice the huge

(01:22:18):
number of similarities between the psychic demonstration in this movie
and the one that would come later in Scanners.

Speaker 2 (01:22:25):
Oh, I did think about that. Yes, I shall now
scan everyone in the room. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, nobody's head explodes.
But but I wonder if there was some inspiration there
for Kreunenberg.

Speaker 3 (01:22:35):
But in both there's so much similarity it would be
hard to imagine there wasn't an inspiration. Like, in both cases,
the psychic they scan somebody in the audience and then
they they pick they like lock in with an audience member,
but then the audience member like turns it back on
them and is ultimately going to kill them. You picked

(01:22:56):
the wrong brain, yes, exactly. And so in this case,
the the psychic Hell guy, she's at her apartment and
she's just, you know, hanging out and doing some things.
I don't remember what she's doing here. I think she's
talking to some people on the phone.

Speaker 2 (01:23:11):
She's talking talking to somebody in She's speaking in German,
So she's talking I don't know, her agent or somebody
family member I don't recall.

Speaker 3 (01:23:19):
But at the same time, while she's just hanging out
in her apartment, we see somebody getting ready to go
out for the night. But we get like a close
up of an eyeball and clearly like putting the putting
the jallo murder gloves on. So something's about to go
down and someone arrives at the psychic's apartment. The psychic

(01:23:41):
knows before the door even opens that something is wrong,
like she becomes afraid and tries to block the door,
but the person comes in and then murders her. Hits
her first with a cleaver, but then the death gets
much more jallo because of the way that it uses
non traditional movie murder weapons. The movie murder weapon after

(01:24:01):
this becomes window. Yeah, so she is shoved into a
window and the jagged glass on the window that goes
into her neck and kills her. And then down below
in the piazza, Carlo and Marcus hear the screaming and
they're they're like, what's that? And so Marcus is drawn
to go investigate, and he goes up to the apartment.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
Yeah, I mean, we could scrutinize and say he says, hey,
there's a murder going on up there. Let me get
up there and get my fingerprints all over that, because
that is what he's what he does. But the police
When the police show up, they're surprisingly cool with this.
They're like like, hey, you want to what are your
thoughts on this prime suspect.

Speaker 3 (01:24:43):
Well, yeah, he's genuinely trying to help.

Speaker 2 (01:24:45):
But then we learn I don't, at least in my cut,
I don't think this was firmly established. This is his
apartment building, Like, this is a murder in the building,
is it?

Speaker 3 (01:24:54):
I actually don't know the answer to that, but I.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
Believe I, either wrongfully or correctly watching the film, is that, like,
this is his building, and therefore it makes a little
more sense that he's like I think he tells the
police like, yeah, I didn't really know her, but she's
a floor below me or something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:25:10):
Yeah, that would make sense. Yeah, So yeah, he comes
up into the apartment so now, and on the way in,
he's like going through her apartment, which has all these
like creepy paintings of screaming faces. There's very like Monks
the Scream, but just a hundred of those versions like.

Speaker 2 (01:25:27):
Whoever drew the this is the one artist that like
really gets there.

Speaker 3 (01:25:30):
Yeah, And as he's like he's going through the hallway
and he sees all these weird faces and then as
he comes to the murder scene like she has is
either dying or dead there. And then he looks out
the window and he sees someone leaving the scene on
the ground down below. Sees them only from behind the
wearing a raincoat and a hat and gloves, so no

(01:25:52):
identifying detail. But so after this we we have an
interview with the police. The police are there, they're not.
They don't seemed to be incredibly useful, but we do
learn some things that will be important for the rest
of the film, such as the detail that we talked
about there. This is in so many Gallo films, the
detail where if you could just remember it right or

(01:26:14):
make sense of it, it would solve the mystery. Here
he remembers coming down the hallway and seeing a painting
that's not there anymore. So the police are there looking
in the room and they can't find the painting that
he saw, a painting of a face.

Speaker 2 (01:26:27):
Which is a nice bit of it's not pure misdirection,
but it does bring up this one. You start thinking
about it as the viewer, like, okay, there's some sort
of a theft of a painting. Okay, that's a whole
crime staple in and of itself, but I don't have
much else to go on beyond that. But it seems
to be important because Marcus is fixating on it, right,
even though I don't remember, Like I was like, maybe

(01:26:50):
I looked up and I missed what he was talking about,
But no, you didn't miss anything. It is something in
his mind and it all makes sense later on.

Speaker 3 (01:26:58):
Also in this scene, we meet Gianna for the first time,
played by Daria Nickelode. She arrives to to you know,
to write a story on what's going on here. I
guess she's a crime reporter. She is bold, assertive, flippant, difficult,
and funny, and she's like making fun of the police
who are trying to stop her from coming and looking in.

(01:27:20):
She clearly is she has encountered, you know, their resistance
to her investigations before, and is inclined to just kind
of blow through them.

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
Yeah, just storms right in and starts taking photos.

Speaker 3 (01:27:31):
Yeah. But actually there will over time develop a relationship
between Gianna and Marcus for one reason, because she takes
his picture and then advertises in the newspaper that he
is a witness to the murder, and that puts him
in the crosshairs because after this there's a scene where

(01:27:51):
he is home alone and somebody appears to be like
stalking him in his apartment. He manages to slam the
door to keep the person away from him, but he
hears a whispered voice on the other side of the
door saying, I think I will kill you soon.

Speaker 2 (01:28:06):
Yeah, so the mysterious murder is onto him as well,
because whoever committed this crime in the past, this Christmas homicide,
they don't want anybody to do unearth the secret, the
dark secrets of this crime.

Speaker 3 (01:28:20):
Also, she's she's just really into him, not the killer,
but Gianna. So she's she's not just helping because she
feels bad for putting him in the crosshairs. Also, she's like, hey,
you know you're attractive. I'm saying we let's hook up.
I don't know how much of that was in your version,
because I know those are a lot of the scenes
that got cut out, but clearly like, yeah, she's looking,

(01:28:41):
she's looking for love.

Speaker 2 (01:28:42):
Yeah. I felt like the actors had great chemistry and
they had some just nice playful back and forth here.
Sometimes in these these scenes that are played a little
bit more for comedy, but again not in the way
that feels out of balance. Particularly there's this scene where
she gives him a ride in her car and there's
all this like you can't get in on that door
through that door because that door doesn't work, and then

(01:29:03):
like his seat doesn't work either, and he's like hunched
over and you know, too far down, and.

Speaker 3 (01:29:10):
He locks his door, which means they can't get out of.

Speaker 2 (01:29:12):
The Yeah, it's like that door can never be up.
We have to get a mechanic to open that door.

Speaker 3 (01:29:16):
Now, well, they from then on they get in and
out of the car through the sun roof.

Speaker 2 (01:29:20):
That's right, that's right. So yeah, it's it's fun and
it helps establish like, yeah, these two are having fun
together despite all the dark things going on in the
world around them, Like they have a they have a spark,
even if they're kind of fighting at times about and
when he's you know, his sexist side comes out and
he's talking about, you know, scoffing at women's rights and all,

(01:29:42):
and then she has to beat him at arm wrestling.
It's nicely played out.

Speaker 3 (01:29:47):
That scene starts with him being like, oh, don't start
telling me about women's equality, you know, and then it
just ends with him complaining because she keeps beating him
at arm wrestling. Yeah, he's like, you're doing we need
to do it different this next time.

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:30:03):
Yeah, So so there's that. There are also some more
scenes of the friendship between Marcus and Carlo, so you
get the sequence where you know, Marcus goes to check
on Carlo, meets his mom, she talks about how she
used to be an actress. Then he goes to find
Carlo at the apartment of his lover Massimo, and they
leave together, and then they talk about the case, about

(01:30:24):
like whether Carlo also saw somebody leaving the apartment that
night in a raincoat. Carlo thinks maybe he did, but
he doesn't have any information. But then Carlo is really
concerned for Marcus because he's like, he's afraid that if
his friend keeps looking into this, it will lead to
more trouble and he's going to end up dead. Two.

Speaker 2 (01:30:42):
Yeah, So at this point we've pretty much established like
the mission for all the characters here. You know, Marcus
is gonna Marcus and UH and Jenna are going to
continue to investigate. They're going to get various leads, they're
going to follow those leads, and meanwhile, the mysterious killer
is going to keep offing people that are key to
the invent investigation, and these are going to be your

(01:31:02):
stylish Jallo murders we already mentioned, like the one that
takes place in a mirror walled bathroom. Yeah crazy, Yeah,
death by drowning in a tub of hot water, scholar,
which is grotesque, but also like physically the flesh aspect
of it is grotesque, but the steamed up mirrors makes

(01:31:25):
for it's just wonderful. It's wonderfully composed scene and then
makes great use of like the the victim writing something
out on the mirror before they die, and then our
investigator having to make sense of that and try and
figure out, oh, they actually wrote the killer is or
the killer was such and such.

Speaker 3 (01:31:44):
Yeah. So the victim there is the author of a
book about a local legend about a haunted house where
the song that Marcus heard associated with the killer was
also heard playing. Yes, implicated, that's how he gets He's
like trying to find out more, and then she gets killed.
Somebody gets to her before he can.

Speaker 2 (01:32:06):
It's a little convoluted to the point. You wonder if
the point it might be that he has completely gone
off the rails and it's like fallowed some sort of
nonsensical clue that's leading him in the wrong direction. But
who's following him in the wrong direction, the killer. It
turns out it's the right direction.

Speaker 3 (01:32:23):
Yes, So he eventually hunts hunts down this local haunted
house by way of identifying some unusual plants in a
book photo of the house. So now he's getting somewhere.
I think they call it the House of the Screaming Child.

Speaker 2 (01:32:38):
Yes, yeah, it surprisingly has not sold. It's still on
the market. Nobody wants to live in the House of
the Screaming Child. It's like when Marge becomes a real
estate agent. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it will we
will learn it is a murder house and it is
an historic villa in Toronto, so it's I was looking

(01:32:59):
it up. It's still out there.

Speaker 3 (01:33:01):
So Marcus goes to investigate. There is some great music,
just you know, goblin jazz playing while he walks around
the house. He meets the caretaker of the house and
the caretaker's daughter who The daughter is played by the
creepy redheaded child from Footprints on the Moon.

Speaker 2 (01:33:16):
She's creepy here because she might be murdering lizards.

Speaker 3 (01:33:20):
Maybe stabbing needles through lizards for witchcraft.

Speaker 2 (01:33:22):
Yeah, yeah, drawing all sorts of horrendous childhood artwork of murder,
you know, and that's her specialty.

Speaker 3 (01:33:29):
Well, but we don't know who drew this. But he
goes into the house and he finds a place where
like he peels the plaster away from the wall with
his fingernails.

Speaker 2 (01:33:38):
Oh god, that was giving me the all over those like,
come on, Marcus, find it something. There's got to be
a shovel or a well. He does eventually, eventually, but
it's like several minutes of nails scrape thing before he does.

Speaker 3 (01:33:48):
He goes into a flooded basements. This gets I don't know,
a scraper of some kind, and it reveals a child,
a child's drawing on the wall of a murder taking place.

Speaker 2 (01:33:59):
Yeah, very interesting looking a bit of art. And then
as he leaves it, another little piece chips away and
it reveals there's more to that painting. Yeah, he doesn't
know about it, but we the viewer have privileged information
that our protagonist is working on an incomplete understanding of
the situation. So I rather liked that.

Speaker 3 (01:34:29):
Now we already mentioned earlier that while this is going on,
there's been a parallel investigation with Professor Jordani. He went
to the other murder victim's house, the one who died
in the bathtub, and saw the message written on the wall.
Was able to like figure out what that was by
refogging up the bathroom after it had disappeared. But then

(01:34:50):
Jordani is now not long for this world. He knows
too much. Somebody's got to do something about that.

Speaker 2 (01:34:55):
Oh and his murder scene is bonkers, so it mirrors.

Speaker 3 (01:34:58):
A lot of people think this is a highlight of
the film.

Speaker 2 (01:35:00):
Oh, I mean, I loved it, but it's bonkers. It's
so set up more or less like Marcus is almost
murder from earlier where Marcus is like in his study
doing work, and then he hears something weird and he
picks up something to protect himself from his table. Well,
same thing here with our parapsychologist, except he doesn't get

(01:35:21):
to shut the door on it. He sees something and
then is seemingly attacked by a hideous ventrilocus dummy or
automaton wind up vampire doll.

Speaker 3 (01:35:33):
He is, Yeah, he's in his study and he hears
somebody whisper his name. Yeah, the whispered voice is very creepy.
He arms himself with a knife, then he kind of
feels silly, I think it, puts the knife down, and
then bursting out of the closet is a clockwork doll
that's like wheeling toward him on some kind of contraption,
just like rushing toward the camera, making crazy noises, and

(01:35:57):
it's like ah, and he attacks the doll and breaks
its head open, revealing that it is a machine of
some kind of like a giant wind up ventriloquist stummy
is what it looks like. Yeah, so I incredibly unsettling.

Speaker 2 (01:36:11):
I guess the main takeaway is it's a toy doll,
which is one of the things that the killer is into.
But at the time as this was happening, I was like,
is this is this a machine? Like is this a robot?
Is this a psychic? Attack? Is our you know, we've
already had one psychic in the film, and maybe this
is our villain? Is our actual killer is a psychic
And they're like, you know, telekinetically throwing puppets at them.

Speaker 3 (01:36:34):
I wasn't sure, but no, not necessarily, and we don't
know why the puppet was used. But it's creepy, and
then the attack comes from behind. That was a distraction.
The attack comes from behind and he gets like his
mouth bashed on all the corners of the furniture. Do
you notice how I feel like a lot of the
murders in this movie are they're not. They're like things

(01:36:58):
injuries that people might dream up accidentally having on their own,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:37:05):
Yeah, it's a stark contrast with some of the violence,
like some of the zombie violence that we discussed, say
in in our recent look at Folci's What City of
the Living Dead, where in that it's like zombie barfing
up their entire intestine something like that. So it's certainly grotesque,
but it's so grotesque that it's outside of our normal

(01:37:28):
anxieties and experiences, whereas like ental trauma, that's like that's
too real. That's just in factor, you know, because we
can all we have all had thoughts about that or
experiences along those lines, So that's that's more real to us.
It's a common observation in horror, and certainly in horror
cinema that it's like someone's arm can get cut off

(01:37:49):
and it will mean nothing to you. But if someone
gets like their palm sliced or something to that effect,
a more minor injury. We'll connect with it viscerally because
it's just more real. It's something that we can compare
our own experiences to.

Speaker 3 (01:38:03):
Yeah, so many of the kills in this movie are
things that you could imagine happening to yourself by accident somehow. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:38:13):
Yeah, less decapitation and more more dental trauma.

Speaker 3 (01:38:17):
Yeah. So anyway, it's curtains for Jordanni, no more Jordanni
to help. So we got I guess we've got a
race toward the conclusion here. The way we get there
is that Marcus realizes he has missed a clue. He's
like looking at the picture of the villa from the
book and he realizes there used to be a window
on the house that's not there anymore. It's now just

(01:38:38):
walled up. So he goes back to the house. He's
like got to bash through this wall and find out
what was behind where this window used to be. And
this is like a whole action sequence.

Speaker 2 (01:38:49):
Oh yeah, Like he goes up, you know, goes up
to the top floor, climbs out onto the outside of
the house, bashes through what used to be a window,
but is now a wall with a hammer and then
begins to fall all off the house and has to
steadily climb down the outside of the house in a
really drawn out action sequence set to some really wonky jazz.

(01:39:10):
I mean, I loved it, but this jazz is wonky.
This is thick, it's aggressive, and it does kind of
feel like the stuntman or whoever did the stunt, was like, hey,
I climbed down the entire outside of that villa for you.
You better not cut it, our gento. I nearly died
for that, And so he didn't and cut it includes

(01:39:32):
what seemingly the whole thing, but he successfully bashes through.
We get in there, and what's inside the Christmas room
the Christmas house side room.

Speaker 3 (01:39:40):
Yeah, exactly, complete with the desiccated corpse.

Speaker 2 (01:39:42):
Yeah yeah, what is I read is a male corpse,
so like dad corpse in a rocking chair. Perhaps I'm
not sure it was a rocking chair. Then maybe that's
old too much, just like a chair interpretation. But yeah,
ancient remains of a dead body does not come alive,
but much is revealed here.

Speaker 3 (01:40:01):
So Marcus gets knocked unconscious by someone unseen, The house
catches on fire and then he awakes outside the house
with Gianna standing over him. She she apparently found the
note that he left for her, and then she followed
him here and dragged him out of the house before
he was quote a roast duck baby.

Speaker 2 (01:40:22):
Oh, and this is where he's like, Oh, that creepy
redheaded kid. He notices in her room, what is she
decorated her walls with. She's decorated her walls with drawings.
It looked just like the one that he uncovered in
the villa.

Speaker 3 (01:40:34):
I thought this was going to mean she was psychic
and had psychically seen the image, but no, it's actually
I think kind of a dumber and more convoluted twist
than that.

Speaker 2 (01:40:46):
Yeah, that she what solid on? She read she saw
it in the archives at a school. At her middle school.

Speaker 3 (01:40:53):
She's like, I was being forced to clean the archives
at this middle local middle school. They say the name
a lot of times, Leonardo da Vinci Middle School. I
was at Leonardo da Vinci Middle School cleaning the archives
and I saw this drawing and then I made a
copy of it at my house. And they're like, oh,
so if we just go to the school and find
this drawing, it will tell us who the killer is yes.

Speaker 2 (01:41:14):
So now we have our late movie research mode. We
have our mission for our protagonist and our punchy reporter.
Here we know that at some point in the past
a child has drawn creepy drawings of murder. They went
to this middle school. This middle school has never thrown
a single thing away. All the children's drawings are archived.

(01:41:37):
They just need to, I guess, break into the school
and go through all of these drawings, find the one
they're looking for, and figure out who did it, and
then they'll know the identity of the killer.

Speaker 3 (01:41:49):
Perfect, perfect plan, and that's what they do. They go
there and they start going through the archives. They're being stalked,
of course by the killer who's watching them from there.

Speaker 2 (01:41:59):
At one point she's like, should we call We should
call the police and let them know we're here, which
made me ask like, didn't you guys just like break in?
Like I didn't think much about it when they did it,
because you just do these things in movies like this.

Speaker 3 (01:42:11):
But guess, my guess is that the script didn't have
that in it. And then they realized while they were
shooting these scenes, they're like, wait, the police are showing up,
but how would the police know, and they're like, oh no,
we need to have Darius say we should call the
police so that you know. So there's a reason. So anyway,

(01:42:31):
they're there, and while they are there, they indeed discover
the drawing, and on the drawing, I guess there's a name.
And this lets Marcus put it all together. He starts
calling out in the dark because he hears someone is
there with him. He starts calling out, I know who
the killer is. I know it's you. I found your drawing.
Now now it all makes sense, and we get a

(01:42:53):
big reveal. We also get the the idea that somebody
has attacked Jianna, though we don't see exactly what's happened
to her yet.

Speaker 2 (01:43:01):
Right right, But yeah, there's what seems like there's there's
a death sequence, like she's stabbed or something kind of like.
This is where we get a little bit of that
eroticism of death here, the kind of like face she
makes when she's being stabbed. But then the big reveal.
It's Carlo. He pulls a gun on Marcus and he
tells him that, hey, I wish you'd stay out of it.

(01:43:22):
I stayed out of this. I tried to warn you
away and you know, he's frazzled and Marcus is trying
to reason with him. Then the cops show up, as
we mentioned that they would, and Carlo is is he spooked.
He runs off, and we get this long, drawn out
and really disturbing sequence where Marcus runs into traffic and

(01:43:45):
I don't want to go through all the details, but
is essentially torn apart by the traffic.

Speaker 3 (01:43:49):
Yet again, like a horrible death sequence that you could
imagine just being like a series of tragic accidents.

Speaker 2 (01:43:56):
Yeah. In my response at this point, again this was
my first time seeing the film, I was like, well,
the movie was great up until this point, but now
it kind of sucks because, yeah, the movie ends with
our our main non hetero character is the killer and
ends up dying by being dragged behind a truck. You know,

(01:44:17):
like that's that's gross. But there's more to go.

Speaker 3 (01:44:23):
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't make sense in multiple levels.
It is. It is an unsatisfying conclusion, but there is
another development coming.

Speaker 2 (01:44:30):
Yeah. I think one of the things about it is
that like it makes emotional sense at the time, and
it seems like the movie's wrapping up so and you
don't really have time to think about like all the
ways this doesn't work yet, because you're being beat over
the head with a long drawn out death sequence for
the character here. It's only afterwards that we the viewer

(01:44:52):
can begin to piece things together, and that Marcus can
begin to piece things together.

Speaker 3 (01:44:56):
Right, So Marcus does what does he do here?

Speaker 2 (01:44:58):
Well? First, first of all, first.

Speaker 3 (01:45:00):
Yeah, we find out that Gianna, she's not dead.

Speaker 2 (01:45:02):
She's going to be okay, just a fleshmom, she's pulling
through it. But then he goes back to the square
from before. The cafe is closed, which I thought was
a nice that the bar there is closed. I thought
it was a nice touch. Everything's dark and empty. It
was dark and empty before, but now even more so.
And Carlo is not there. Of course Carlo is dead.
And then he realizes what couldn't have been Carlo. Carlo

(01:45:24):
was out here in the square with me when Helga
was being murdered up there. So he goes back to
the crime scene, helps himself in, you know, tears the
type of side, and he starts looking around. He starts
thinking about that missing painting, where's that missing painting? And
then he finds it. He realizes there wasn't a missing painting.

(01:45:44):
What I was looking at is still here. It's not
a painting, it's a mirror, and the mirror was reflecting
somebody standing just out of sight that was hiding from him,
but the individuals being still, and he thought that they
that it was a painting of a person.

Speaker 3 (01:46:01):
Really good twist, by the way. I mean that one
the first time I saw that. That worked so well
for me, the painting to mirror reverse.

Speaker 2 (01:46:08):
Same here. Yeah. I'd see plenty of films where the
big revelation is feels completely telegraphed and you're like, come on,
go ahead and say it. You figured it out, We
figured it out ten minutes ago, But not here. Just
excellent bait and switch. The true killer is revealed because
of course the killer shows up to kill Marcus now
and it's Carlo's mom.

Speaker 3 (01:46:29):
So yeah, so when Carlo earlier pulled the gun, it's
not that he was the killer, it's that he knew
it was his mom and that Marcus was about to
was about to turn her in, and he was trying
to protect his mom.

Speaker 2 (01:46:44):
Yeah, so we get the full Christmas murder reveal where
we find out that what happened was that Carlo's father
wanted to send Carlo's mother back to the hospital. I believe.

Speaker 3 (01:46:57):
Yeah, they're saying that, the doctors, I mean, it suggested
that she had previously been been hospitalized, maybe for like
a mental condition, and that she you know, they were
asking her to go back again. The doctors were saying
that she would benefit from going back again. But she's refusing.
She says no, and he's trying to convince her. He's saying, look,

(01:47:19):
it'll be good for you, and she's saying no. And
then she pulls a knife out of a drawer and
she kills him.

Speaker 2 (01:47:26):
Right, so now we know what happened. Like, she's the killer,
She's the one that was in the audience, she's the
one that's been going around. And she even completely exonerates
Carlo and says Carlo was never the killer. And she
goes to kill Marcus. There's a fight, and then the
way things finally go down is we get this death
by elevator necklace situation. Decapitation via necklace via elevator and

(01:47:51):
it gets.

Speaker 3 (01:47:52):
Caught in the elevator as it's descending and then pulls
tight against her neck.

Speaker 2 (01:47:56):
Oh yeah, really really grim. A lot of blood is produced,
deep red blood, and we end with Marcus or my
cut of the film ended with Marcus staring down and
seeing his own reflection in that pool of blood. And
then we close and we at least I got the
text on the screen. You have been watching Deep Red? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:48:17):
You?

Speaker 3 (01:48:17):
In case you forgot yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:48:19):
Or I guess if you walked in late. I mean,
that's the thing we have to think about movie theaters.
People may have come in late or snuck into the
theater and didn't know what they were watching. So now
you know you have been watching Deep Red. I would just.

Speaker 3 (01:48:31):
Say that that twist the first time I saw it
really got me, like I did not see it coming
and it was effective.

Speaker 2 (01:48:40):
So if I'm understanding everything correctly. Then trying to piece
everything together again, Carlo is a hard drinking pianist, barely
holding it all together. His mother attends a parapsychology conference. Helga,
the psychic detects her past crimes and then makes the
move to kill her. Does and then the rest of
the murders are her cover bring up her crimes. Carlo

(01:49:02):
then tries to protect her when Marcus is investigating.

Speaker 3 (01:49:06):
I guess we never find out how early he knew
about what was going on unclear there. Yeah, but at
least by the end of the investigation, he intervenes and
points a gun at at Marcus to stop him from
getting his mother.

Speaker 2 (01:49:20):
Yeah. Now I still don't know entirely what to make
of the baby dolls. Oh yeah, the creepy automaton, some
of the other fetish items. Why she had to play
the song each time? Was she playing the song because
the song played during the Christmas murder?

Speaker 3 (01:49:35):
Maybe she was like wanting to revisit the murder in
some way.

Speaker 2 (01:49:39):
Yeah, But as far as unanswered questions goes, those are
fine ones to have. It's like, all the actual logistics
are there on the screen. And yeah, I think the
film handles its bait and switch twist rather nicely, because
you know, early on we established that Carlo as an outsider,
someone living on the edge of society, and especially given
the nineteen seventies, established his sexual preferences in a lifestyle

(01:50:01):
seemingly within the context of the film as a red
flag so that the moviegoer might then suspect him. This
is a common trope, certainly in films of that time,
and and you know, for decades to come. Though in
the process they actually take a fair amount of time
to establish this relationship with Massimo. Is something genuine and

(01:50:24):
comforting that you know that you know, could go one
or two ways, Like there's so much misdirection you could
easily think, well, maybe that's misdirection trying to make me
think that Carlo isn't the killer. But anyway, when it
seems that Carlo is the revealed killer, we get this again,
brutal and violent downfall, and then we feel I think

(01:50:44):
the movie goer is made to feel all the worse
when they realize, oh, well, he never was the killer.
So the film seems to exploit seventy genre film expectations
of a character like Carlo, and then in subverting it,
you know, for plot's sake and for shock's sake, does
seem to relish and making the film go or analyze
their own prejudices and stereotypes real life and or cinematic.

(01:51:06):
So you know, you might say it holds a mirror
up to the viewer.

Speaker 3 (01:51:10):
Oh very nice, the mirror. Yeah yeah, yeah. I don't
honestly know how intentional all of that is in terms
of that kind of reversal of prejudices or expectations about
a character, but possibly. Yeah, anyway, I mean I get
like lot in.

Speaker 2 (01:51:28):
Order, only progressive in that it and so that it
can further the bait and switch. I don't know, but
I mean I'll take it. I'll take it where I
can get it.

Speaker 3 (01:51:38):
I guess. Yeah, I can't quite tell if it is
intending to be progressive in that sense or not, but
it's I mean, it certainly doesn't have a lot of
the kind of nastier elements like that that you would
get in a lot of other Jalla films of this stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:51:51):
For sure.

Speaker 3 (01:51:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:51:53):
So yeah, in closing, I would absolutely agree Deep Red
is like the total package when it comes to Jallo.
It has, it has everything, and it delivers everything pretty
much flawlessly and with tremendous style.

Speaker 3 (01:52:06):
Yeah. Yeah, really good stuff. Some of the other good
ones if you're looking for I haven't seen these in
quite a while now, so I guess I should hesitate
to recommend. But I don't know. I remember the other
the other Argento Jello I was talking about Bird with
the Crystal Plumage being really good. There's one I think

(01:52:26):
it's by Bava called All the Colors of the Dark
that I remember liking a lot. So there's some other
really good ones out there.

Speaker 2 (01:52:32):
Yeah. Blood and Black Lace is tremendous and has some
of just the most atmospheric stalking scenes you could ever imagine,
like to the point where it feels like, oh, this
inspired alien, I mean Bob inspired alien in other ways
as well, but like the scene where the killer is
stalking one of the main characters in the basement. Tremendous stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:52:54):
Yeah, and when they're eating dinner and the black glove
comes out of his stomach, that would be good.

Speaker 2 (01:53:01):
That would be good.

Speaker 3 (01:53:03):
Okay, I think that's got to do it for today.
We've gone long.

Speaker 2 (01:53:06):
Yeah, we've gone long. We'll cut some of this out,
you know, but yeah, we got a little got a
little into the spirit of things for Jallo January, So
at this point we'll give you the regular rundown here.
Stuff to Blow your Mind is primarily a science and
culture podcast with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On
Wednesdays we do a short form episode, and on Fridays

(01:53:28):
we set aside most serious concerns to just talk about
a weird film on Weird House Cinema. If you want
to see a list of all the movies we've covered
over the years and sometimes a peek ahead at what
comes next. Go to letterbox dot com look us up
our user name there is weird House. So yeah, this
one's been a lot of fun. It was great to
finally talk about in our gento film.

Speaker 3 (01:53:46):
Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Jjposway.
If you would like to get in touch with us
with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest
a topic for the future, or just to say hello,
you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow
your Mind dot.

Speaker 1 (01:53:59):
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