Weirdhouse Cinema Rewind: Gargoyles

In this classic episode of Weirdhouse Cinema, Rob and Joe discuss the 1972 made-for-TV movie “Gargoyles,” starring Cornel Wilde, Jennifer Salt, Grayson Hall and Bernie Casey – with make-up effects by legendary Stan Winston. (originally published 2/28/2025)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. Rewind. Today we have
an older episode for you of This one's not that old,
it's just from last year. It is our discussion of
the nineteen seventy two made for TV movie Gargoyles. This
one's a lot of fun stars Cornell wild Jennifer Salt,
Grayson Hall, and the great Bernie Casey. So let's jump

(00:26):
right into this one.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb
and this is Joe McCormick. And today on Weird House
we're going to be talking about the nineteen seventy two
made for TV horror film Gargoyles, starring Cornell Wilde, Jennifer Salt,
Grayson Hall, and Bernie Casey. This selection has been waiting

(01:02):
in the wings for some time, hasn't it. It comes
up frequently on our connection segment in multiple previous episodes,
and also has been recommended by multiple listeners. It was
one of the It just seemed we were faded to
cover it at some point. That's right, Let's see Lee, Steven,
Bob Tato or Bob Tato I'm not sure which pronunciation.

(01:22):
Are just a few of the listeners who suggested this
film in particular and said it would be a great fit. Yeah,
it's come up multiple times on the show before in
our connections, and it's also one that I finally remember
watching at least parts of on television in the nineteen nineties,
I think on the Sci Fi channel, and TV again

(01:44):
is the place to watch it. This was a film
made for television, and it has just this great TV
wasteland vibe to it. The sort of weird dated movie
that like during the nineteen nineties you discover on cable
when you were inside on a weekend afternoon instead of
going outside and playing in the sun, or that you
discover late at night instead of getting a good night's sleep,

(02:06):
that sort of picture.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
The spirit of television flows through it, even to the
extent that there's one character. We'll have to talk about
this in the plot section. There's one character who seems
to have gotten completely different notes on how to play
his character over the course of a commercial break.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
A lot can change during a commercial break. Yeah, you know,
it takes you out of the action. I believe we're
going to talk more about this later it takes you
out of the action, perhaps takes you out of the
room as you go to get your dinner, return your plate,
get a snack, use the restroom, put the kids to bed,
what have you, and then you're back in And yeah,

(02:44):
it might be a different movie by that point. Like
sometimes it is implied stuff has happened during the break.

Speaker 3 (02:48):
I guess that's true. The character I have in mind
is implied to have gotten drunk as over the course
of the commercial break, but he goes from being kind
of I don't know, sly and cagey to just being
a complete mass.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, it happens pretty quickly, so yes, indeed. This film
was originally broadcast on Tuesday, November twenty first, nineteen seventy two,
for CBS's the New CBS Tuesday Night Movies. The made
for TV werewolf movie Death Moon that we previously covered
on Weird House was also a CBS affair, though it
aired on a Wednesday.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
Was it one of the new CBS Wednesday Night movies?

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Who I don't recall. Death Moon came out in seventy eight,
so I guess I knew had become older standard by
that point. I'm not sure. I get a little foggy
on how like the Tuesday Night movie would have differed
from the Wednesday Night movie. I just remember the Death
Moon aired, I think following an episode of The Incredible Hulk.
But this is a movie that certainly connected with plenty
of folks. It's a nice mix of early seventies television

(03:50):
monster suits cinematic weirdness. In nineteen eighty one's Dance Maccob
Stephen King singled it out as one of the high
points of the various one shot TV movies and specials
of the day, praising it as memorable and hideous. Likewise,
Michael Weldon in the psychotronic film Guides highlights it as unusual.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
I'm a little perplexed at the amount of praise I
see people heap on this movie. But I will give
it that it is not boring, like it kind of
skips right along and is highly entertaining as to its
real horror credentials. I don't know if I can quite
go there.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
I feel like it is remarkably weird to have been
on television. You know. It's like other examples will point
to from this time period when you're looking at made
for TV horror. A lot of them are a little
more you know, traditional, in the sense that maybe it's
like Gothic horror, and you know, not that this is
completely non traditional. It is based, you know, basic format

(04:50):
of a monster movie, and it's set with a you know,
an American background. But yeah, I mean these scenes where
you have like reptilian gargo oil creatures like rebinon big
furry eggs and in an egg cave. It's it's weird stuff.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
Weirder even for its time than you might think because
we live downstream of gargoyles. An interesting claim I came across.
I can't verify this, but a claim of priority that
I've found referenced in the Ashgate Encyclopedia of Literary and
Cinematic Monsters, edited by somebody named somebody named Jeffrey Andrew Weinstock.

(05:29):
This book claims, quote Gargoyles, the movie we're talking about today,
Gargoyles is the first work to present gargoyles as a
species as opposed to solitary creatures.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
Hmmm. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, because that is how they're there.
They are positioned here. They are not statues, come alive.
They are an ancient species of creatures, perhaps with some
sort of origins going back to Satan in the Fall
of the Balangels.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Well, it just seems kind of like a creative appropriation
of the word gargoyle, because otherwise they are treated as
just demons. They're just demons or devils, but they're also
sort of greedo.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're reptile men, but they are gargoyles.
They're also devils. But the title of the movie is Gargoyles,
and they make sure to call them gargoyles at various
points in the film.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
I should mention that that same Encyclopedia entry also flags
a short story by Harlan Ellison called Bleeding Stones, apparently
also published in nineteen seventy two, in which there are
gargoyles on Saint Patrick's Cathedral that are animated by pollution,
like industrial waste gets into them and it turns them

(06:49):
into monsters that attack New York City.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
I should go ahead and mention, now that we're talking
about this, if any of this sounds familiar. Back in
October of twenty twenty four, we did the Stuff to
Blow Your Mind episode titled Grimoure of Horror, Volume one.
We talked about a couple of short horror stories, one
of them being a nineteen thirty two Clark Ashton Smith
story about gargoyles in which a tormented sculptors gargoyles come

(07:18):
to life and commit crimes in this Gothic city, and
that is often pointed to as one of, if not
like the first stories about animate gargoyles. But then again,
that would be different than what we have here today.
These are gargoyles that were never part of the particular
of a particular architectural creation. They instead are said to

(07:43):
have inspired architectural flourishes. And what are those flourishes? Well,
just a reminder we're talking when we talk about gargoyles,
we're generally talking about a decorative water spout to drain
water away from a building. Then the term is used
a little loose more loosely to describe monsters perching on
the corners of buildings. So you get you get into

(08:03):
different terminology when you get into the specifics of all
these things. But this is linked to the old French
word gargoue as well as the Greek gargarazine. And these words,
of course may remind you of the word gargle that
we used today because you know, essentially we're talking about
a word used to describe the clearing or washing of

(08:26):
the throat.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
Right, So, from decorative water spouts on the side of
a building to Reptilian Satanic gredo monsters that live in
caves in only a few hundred years.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
That that's an evolution, yes, from European cathedrals to the
children of Lucifer living in caves in the Great American Desert.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
Now, we mentioned earlier that a lot of people have
had praise for this movie, a lot of good things
to say about it, And one thing that often gets
singled out for praise is the is the creature design itself?
The monster design. They they've got these great rubber masks
and suits. And apparently this movie won a nineteen seventy

(09:07):
three Primetime Emmy for Outstanding Achievement in Makeup.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
That's right. It beat out a TV movie of Doctor
Jekyll and Mister Hyde starring Kirk Douglas and Donald Pleasants,
as well as a TV movie of Frankenstein starring Robert
Foxworth who would go on to uppear in Death Moon,
as well as the actor Bo s Vincent, who I
believe Svincon played the monster and Foxworth played the doctor.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
Foxworth was the work beast and.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yeah, yeah, I mean who I mean, Doctor Frankenstein. Can
you think of more a bigger work beast than that?

Speaker 3 (09:41):
That's right, he's the original work beast. I wonder how
my feelings about Gargoyles might be different if we'd seen
it with the hardburned Dutch subtitles. I think that would
bring a different spirit to the occasion, wouldn't it.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah? Probably so. But the costumes here do look amazing.
And as we'll get into and just a little bit,
it's the work of Stan Winston, like fresh baby face
stan Winston. This is his first big, big gig as
a makeup dude before he went on to a lot
of other legendary work and legendary monster design, makeup effects

(10:16):
from the subtle to the extravagant. Now, are these suits
always presented in the best light? Is the rest of
the film like reaching its level? Well, you know, an
argument could be made that it is not. You know,
you put a suit like this in a gas station
in the middle of New Mexico, it might not look
as great. But I think on their own they look

(10:37):
amazing and compared to anything else that was on TV
at the time. I have no doubt that these really
stood out and obviously touched a nerve.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
I believe these suits and makeup effects could have popped
even more if they'd been photographed a little more carefully.
I don't want to insult, you know, the cinematography too much,
but we get a lot of just straight up looking
at them, even in slow motion, sometimes in broad daylight.
Sometimes busting through a breakaway door into a hotel room.

(11:07):
Not the most creative or artful way of obscuring and
keeping the mystery of the gargoyle form alive.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yes, yes, yeah, they're often shot, and yeah, it feels
like like noon sun. They're out being stealthy just in
the in broad daylight. People were like, what was that
that flew over? And it's like, you're in the middle
of nowhere in New Mexico. I think you probably could
have seen it, but I don't know. There are plenty
of plenty of animals in New Mexico that managed to

(11:35):
carry out their stealth roles successfully, so I guess an
argument could be made that these these creatures do as well.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
It's hard to stay stealthy when you're doing trampoline stunts
in slow motion.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
True. True.

Speaker 3 (11:46):
So I wanted to pause here for a moment to
think about the specific flavor of today's movie, because despite
the different setting and subject matter, I noticed what felt
like a significant esthetic overlap with the other seventies American
made for TV horror movie we've covered again. That was

(12:06):
Death Moon with the work Beast, and this got me
interested in thinking about these movies as their own subgenre,
the made for TV movie of the seventies as its
own horror subgenre. So I went digging around for any
academic literature that has explored this idea, and I came
across a passage in a book. So the book was

(12:29):
by Lorna Jowett and Stacy Abbott called TV Horror Investigating
the Dark Side of the Small Screen. This was originally
published in twenty thirteen. I haven't read this whole book,
but I did read some reviews in this passage about
made for TV films of the era in question. It
seems to me the central idea of this book is

(12:50):
that wild TV has long been thought of as a
poor venue for horror storytelling due to many things, you know,
restrictions on content and that tend to be more restrictive
than what you would get in the movie theaters, and
horror tends to be by nature transgressive and contains objectionable material.
But also you can think about constraints due to format

(13:14):
format restrictions like the need to include commercial breaks. Despite
all those well known limitations, the authors argue that the
medium of TV also kind of presents its own unique
opportunities for horror, and that horror has long been incorporated
into TV storytelling, even if in cryptic forms, kind of
expressing itself in little ways, in in crime dramas on

(13:37):
TV and things like that. And in the words of
the authors, the quote relationship between horror and television is
one fraught with tension and potential. And so when you
try to think, like, what would be the special potential
for horror on TV as opposed to other media like
the cinema or in written literature. One example that comes

(14:01):
to mind for me, which they do explore in the book,
is the idea that back before home video, when movies
were something that you went to see in the theater
and you couldn't watch at home unless it just happened
to be playing on one of the few TV stations
you got TV provided provided an opportunity to project visual

(14:21):
horror into the domestic setting, and the domestic setting changed
how frightening stories were received. Uh And to that last point.
At one point in this book, the author's cite the
concluding voiceover from Colchak The Nightstalker, which is not a
movie but a sort of mystery horror TV series. We've
talked about this in our anthology of horror episodes in

(14:44):
the Halloween season sometimes, but apparently you know, at the
end of this Colchak would always say something like quote,
so think about it and try to tell yourself, wherever
you may be and the quiet of your home, in
the safety of your bed, try to tell yourself that
it couldn't have up into you. You know, the implication being, Oh,
you think you're safe just because you're at home on

(15:06):
your couch eating a hungry man dinner right now, but
no paramoul fay, this moss monster could come get you.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
That's a great point, you know, like you could basically
have a no horror in the house rule where you
only go out to the theaters and see horror, but
then TV changes that in the same way that like,
right now, I think most of us probably well, not
most of us. I can't speak for everyone out there.
I know we have some horror efficionados out there, but
a lot of us probably have an unofficial rule of

(15:34):
no haunted attractions in the house. Where we go out
to a haunted attraction, we go out to a professional
haunted house, but we don't bring professional ghouls and goblins
into our home to jump scarce randomly, you know, and
if we were to do that, that would drastically change
the way we might think about our house.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
Yeah, exactly. Now, of course this would change with the
advent of home video, you know, that sort of reshuffles everything,
But you can still think of ways in which TV
is a different video. I've said this on the show before,
but I'm often very partial to medium is the message
type thinking kind of mccluinist view that we really underappreciate

(16:14):
how much we're influenced not just by the content that
we consume, but by the format that that content takes. So,
you know, whatever technology or media we use to consume,
it that shapes us almost as much as the content itself,
and it shaped shapes over time the form the content takes.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
Yeah, yeah, this has certainly come up before. When we've
talked about movies where certain changes were made because they
wanted to make sure that like the first ten minutes killed,
you know, so people wouldn't leave the theater, or I
seem to recall an example where they were like, well,
let's offset the big moment a little bit so that
people who are late to their seats don't miss out
on the excitement. Things like that, you know. And I

(16:56):
guess with TV are you're also probably having a factor
in well, some people are coming in maybe thirty minutes
into it. You know, there's no definite start time. It's
not like they bought a ticket.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
Yeah, we'll come back to that in just a minute,
but I did want to say so. The authors here
have a sub section discussing horror within the history of
the made for TV movie, also known as the single
play a single play as opposed to like a series
or a mini series, and so they write about how
the made for TV movie was especially popular in the

(17:26):
nineteen sixties and seventies, with major production centers being networks
in the United States like ABC and then in this
case CBS, and then of course in Britain as well,
with things like ITV, ITV. Actually had armchair theater going
back to the nineteen fifties, so we established even earlier there.

(17:47):
But then the authors cite a scholar named Waller who
cataloged more than one hundred made for TV horror films
that premiered on primetime in the United States between nineteen
sixty eight and nineteen eighty seven. And that was kind
of surprising to me that there were that many, because
I don't think of horror as the most popular genre

(18:10):
of made for TV movies. I mean, I tend to
think of made for TV movies as like, you know,
your kind of comedies and your family dramas and things
like that, you were made for TV. Horror felt like
a more rare, rare exploration. But in discussing these movies,
Jowatt and Abbott right quote. These films include adaptations of

(18:30):
Gothic novels such as Count Dracula nineteen seventy seven, Frankenstein
nineteen seventy three. Oh, I wonder if that's the one
we were just talking about. I believe it talks about, Yeah,
the Turn of the Screw nineteen seventy four, or original
contemporary horror such as Fear No Evil nineteen sixty nine
Duel nineteen seventy one. I believe that's an early Steven

(18:53):
Spielberg movie.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yeah. I believe matheson either a script by Mathison or
it's based on work by Mathison. I don't recall at
the top of my head. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
And then their final example is Gargoyles from nineteen seventy two,
but the passage continues.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Quote.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
John Kenneth Muir argues that in this period, television became
increasingly graphic, and that the turn toward darkness in TV
horror represented, as with cinematic horror, a shift in national mood,
due at least in part to the shocking and graphic
news footage coming back from the Vietnam War. It was

(19:30):
as if for the first time Americans were aware of
a darker world, and television reflected that shift in perspective.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Hmm. That's fascinating. Now.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
Another thing they mentioned here is about the production mode
of made for TV horror films, which was in some
ways similar to that of a cinematic film, but usually
with a lower budget and a shorter production schedule. One
major format difference that we've already alluded to here is
the necessity of incorporating commercial breaks. Now, you might be thinking, like,

(20:04):
do you really need to plan out commercial breaks from
a writing perspective, Maybe you just write the story like
you would otherwise and let the breaks fall wherever.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Okay, that's how we do the podcast.

Speaker 3 (20:16):
That sort of is how we do the podcast now.
But like the podcast is a conversational informational exploration, it's
really hard to do that if you are writing a fiction,
a fictional narrative where you're trying to control tension and
you're trying to build to climaxes and all that. I mean,
if you just if you literally just randomly place commercial

(20:39):
breaks within a story. In fact, we've seen what this
is like when that happens on, like you know, something
like you're watching a maybe illicit stream of a movie
or something and the ads just pop in wherever. It's hilarious.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, yeah, you know. I was thinking about this recently
as well, not only in watching Gargoyles, which has these moments,
but also so as a family we've been watching and
for my wife and I rewatching the sci fi series Firefly, Oh,
which you know I love back in the day. I'm
getting reacquainted with now. The footage is not the most

(21:13):
restored that I've seen. So it feels a little rough
around the edges and places, but still very fresh in
many other ways. But it has those those obvious baked
in commercial breaks where things lead up, you know, you
get to kind of like a little crescendo and then
there's just a little bit of darkness and then you
come back and you know, for someone like our kids

(21:34):
seem less and less of that, So they're like, what's
what's going on here? Why don't we keep having these moments?
They like, Oh, yeah, those are commercial breaks, Those were
those were necessary, mandated and you know, clearly constructed around Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
So the authors of this book talk about how it's
been recognized for a while that, or at least argued
by other scholars previously, that the the need for commercial
breaks is especially devastating to horror as a genre for
storytelling because it interrupts the narrative flow and the building
of tension that is supposed to take place in a

(22:08):
horror story. But also they cite again the scholar named
Waller who says that it's really a problem that the
advertisements coming in in the middle of the story quote
themselves serve as reassurance that all is well in the world,
and I can see what's going on there. But then

(22:30):
coming back on the other side, the authors talk about
how writers try to get around this by, of course
structuring the story with these kind of mini climaxes, placing
breaks after each one. That's like what you were just
talking about, you know, the where even when the commercials
are no longer present, you're just watching it as one
continuous thing. You can feel where the commercial breaks are.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yeah, and I have to admit at times, watching Gargoyles,
I really kind of wanted to see those commercials. What
would they have been, you know.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
I want to see commercials for Towbor, the International Ladies
Garment Workers Union, all the good ones. But anyway, this
got me thinking about how there are multiple ways to
write around the idea of commercial breaks. The authors here
are talking about trying to structure it with many climaxes
before a commercial break, so the break doesn't unnecessarily cut

(23:19):
into the tension you're building. But I was thinking about
how it's actually often the case that people will try
to have a commercial break occurring right at a moment
of suspense, like the door is opening, and then you
cut to commercial to I guess the ideas that will
leave you hanging and make you avoid changing the channel
during the commercial because you want to see what happens next.

(23:41):
I think that can lead made for TV horror to
feel kind of hokey that often does not play very well.
But at the same time, in rare cases, I think
the juxtaposition between story and commercial breaks can itself be uncanny.
Like Made for TV horror with commercial breaks works especially well.

(24:05):
I think in stories where everything seems to be right
with the world, but there are hidden threats lurking behind
a facade of everyday life. It's kind of making you
question the sort of interactions and media that you go
through every single day. You know that can kind of
play well when suddenly it cuts away to people trying

(24:27):
to manipulate you by capturing your attention and selling you
on something.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
I could see that definitely having been the case with
Death Moon, because Death Moon if you don't familiar if
you're not familiar with it or you don't remember the episode.
This is about an overworked man going on a vacation
to Hawaii where he begins to change into a werewolf.
Much of what occurs in the film, though, is exactly
the kind of life that advertisements might have been selling

(24:53):
you on. You know, like a successful single man, you know,
looking for love, you know, working hard, but trying to
play hard a little bit as well, but then also
changing into a murderous monster at night.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
Yeah, he's a dapper dan man.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
But yeah, Gargoyles, I don't know, it's maybe a harder
case to be made.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
Yeah, I don't think it really fits that. As I've said,
I do think Gargoyles is very entertaining. There are some
elements of it that kind of work pretty well as intended.
It's definitely funny in some ways. I don't know how well,
at least for me, it holds up as actual horror building,
actual horror attention.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
But I do want to say.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
I think there is a special esthetic weirdness, and more specifically,
I would say a bleakness to the handful of made
for TV horror movies that I've seen from the seventies.
I don't know if I have exactly the right words
to explain this, but as close as I can get
is a couple of things. One is that they often

(26:00):
kind of incorporate a slightly alarming feeling of numbness, like
a spiritual an hedonia. Do you know what I'm talking about?
It all?

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean this it you know, it's it's
impossible to think about these pictures without thinking about, like
what's going on in the nineteen seventies, late nineteen seventies,
early seventies, wherever a predicture of work, particular work happens
to fall. You know, you know, what what does it
say about about the zeitgeist at the time and the

(26:32):
like the general like feeling about the world and about
your place in the world. And I guess you know,
part of that comes out of like like being a
kid who was born in the seventies. You know, it's
kind of like this is this is the world that
I like emerged from, Like this is the alchemy that
produced me. It's like, what does it say about the
world I came from? What does it say about who
I am now? And so forth?

Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah, well, I don't mean this at all as a
commentary on you where the world you came from. But
the thing I'm is, I don't know, there's this background
feeling in these movies of kind of searching after pleasures
that can no longer satisfy or something like that, this
kind of emptiness and longing.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, the post nineteen sixties world, you know, to invoke
the famous quote by Hunter S. Thompson, you know, after
the waves has crested and fallen and fallen back from
where we are now. Yeah, often get a sense of
that vibe, and at the same time, there's also part

(27:34):
of it again coming back to having been born in
the seventies, Like, these pictures sort of feel like home,
and I want and I feel comfortable in them, and
they make me want to to some extent, not to
like a literal extent, but it makes me to some
extent like want to crawl into them and inhabit that
world and find some sort of safety there. That, of course,
you know, has no real connection to what the nineteen

(27:56):
seventies were actually like or certainly the world's depicted in
these films.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
I belong in this gargoyle cave. But the other thing
I was thinking is that because these made for TV
movies are restricted to FCC content standards, nothing ever gets
north of PG. You know, they're fairly tame. This one
is often singled out for being especially frightening and violent

(28:21):
by TV standards, but even in this case, I would
say it is very tame compared to the horror movies
of the same time in history. You know, this is
not The Exorcist, Oh certainly not. And because of that,
there is counterintuitively a feeling of restrained viciousness that is

(28:43):
actually quite menacing when you focus on it. It's like
the made for TV horror movie asks you to imagine
the version of the story that you could not be shown.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah, that's true, that's true.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
Anyway, That's all I've got on made for TV horror
right now. But maybe we can revisit this topic as
we go on.

Speaker 1 (29:02):
Oh, absolutely absolutely, And I'm sure it will also come
back to more made for TV horror in the future.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
I mean, as we just read, there were at least
one hundred of them by nineteen eighty seven, so you know.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
There's some real dogs in there, but I could probably
have plenty of other gems as well.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
Is Dracula's dog one of them?

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Ooh yeah maybe so maybe So we'll come back to
Dracula's Dog in this episode. All right, elevator pitch, I'm
gonna invoke Jimmy Rodgers Desert Blues here and say, way
out on the windswept desert where nature favors no man.

(29:40):
The gargoyle found Diana at rest on the sun baked sand.
That's beautiful. Now, I do not have some trailer audio
to include here. I really hope to find a little
like CBS promo like tonight on the CBS New Tuesday
Night movie, but I could not find anything. I found
some things that might have been legitimate trailers of the day,

(30:00):
other things that we're definitely creations from a later point,
so we'll just have to imagine what it might have
consisted of.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
See, this is what I want AI to help with.
When there's like footage that you know is out there
but doesn't have the proper metadata and you can't locate it,
that's what I want AI to help me do is
find that promo for the CBS movie.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Well, sorry, it's gonna make whole podcasts instead, all right,
So if you want to see Gargoyles, luckily it is
widely available. It's been widely available for a while. There
have been a few different vhs and DVD releases. Ideal
viewing is of course, on an old school television set,
but you know, do what you can with what you have.
There's been no Blu Ray release that I'm aware of,

(30:47):
and it's widely available on streaming right now, like various
legitimate streaming platforms have at you can. I think you
can find a few different versions of it on YouTube
as well.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
I'm sorry you're not allowed to watch this movie. And
let's at least seventy percent of the mass of your
TV is wood.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah, yeah, big Wooden television set. W'd serve you well? Here?
All right, Well, let's get into the people behind this picture,
starting the top with the director. It's Bill Norton born
nineteen forty three American director Norton. Here was coming off
of his most well regarded feature film, his first nineteen
seventy one Cisco Pike, starring Chris Christofferson, Karen Black, Harry

(31:25):
Dean Stanton, and Gene Hackman. Rip'ed all four of those individuals.
Norton also co wrote the movie Cisco Pike. Gargoyles was
his follow up, and he went on to direct more
American Graffiti in seventy nine, as well as another film
that I've seen, Baby Secret of the Lost Legend. This
is a nineteen eighty five film about people going to

(31:46):
the jungle and finding a cute baby dinosaur. Definitely watched
this so on VHS as a kid, and he also
did a lot of TV work, both series and films.
His credits include episodes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, as
well as the nineteen eighties Twilight Zone revival.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
Okay, I looked up Baby secret of the Lost Legend.
I want to assure people. It's cuter than what I
had in mind, which was the baby from the TV
show Dinosaurs.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, this is a different baby dinosaur. This is like
Brontosaurus or something to that effect, some sort of surapod.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
The original poster for it is kind of nice. It
has that old school jungle adventure look. A more recent
poster for it, I guess this is box art for
a re release of the DVD. Seems to steal the
visual theme of Jurassic Park.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Oh well, you know it made sense. It's like look
around and see, wow, this dinosaur movie is really making
a lot of money. Well, we have one already on
the shelf ready to go. Let's go ahead and bust
it out. I don't remember anything else about it except,
you know, scenes where they're engaging with the dinosaur in
the jungle.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
As I said, haven't seen it, but it looks to
me like it fits in the e Walk Adventure kind
of market.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, with a score by Jerry Goldsman. All Right,
moving on to the writing, This is the work of
the husband and wife writing duo of Stephen Carf and
Eleanor Karf. Stephen was born in nineteen thirty nine. Eleanor
lived nineteen thirty nine through twenty thirteen. Their credits include

(33:20):
the nineteen eighties daytime soap opera Capital, four episodes of
Kung Fu, and the nineteen seventy eight TV movie Devil
Dog the Hound of Hell starring Richard Crenna.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
Oh that's the one we keep thinking is called Dracula's Dog.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
No, this is a different one. Oh yeah, there's Devil
Dog Hound of Hell, and then there's Dracula's Dog, which
we will come back to in a bit because it
also is connected to this movie. And so.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
I can't even count our blessings today.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
All right. Getting into the cast. Top build is Cornell Wilde,
playing the character of doctor Mercer Bowley. Wild lived nineteen
twelve through nineteen eighty nine. Hungarian born American actor of stage,
screen and TV, who is nominated for an Oscar for
nineteen forty six is A Song to Remember, in which
he starred and nominated for a Hugo Award in nineteen

(34:13):
seventy four No Blade of Grass, which he directed. His
uncredited acting work goes back to the mid nineteen thirties,
and his actual credits include nineteen fifty two's The Greatest
Show on Earth and episodes of such TV shows as
I Love Lucy Night, Gallery, Fantasy Island, and Murder. She wrote.
He's also in Charles B. Pearce's nineteen seventy eight Viking

(34:33):
movie The Norseman.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
Oh, I've never seen that, but that's been on my
radar for a while. Charles B. Pearce is the buggy
Creek guy.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Right correct, Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. He did one Viking epic.
So there's a lot to say about this character, not
really as much as say about the performance. I mean,
Cornell Wild is fine.

Speaker 3 (34:53):
In this He's playing it just right down the middle.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Right down the middle. He does. There is a you know,
I could be shirtless in this scene energy in this film,
which makes sense once he takes his shirt off. So
he was in his sixties at this point, and I
was looking back at I wasn't super familiar with Cornell
Wilde's work, but looking back through his filmography, he was
often shirtless, so you know, kudos to him for being

(35:18):
in such great shape at age sixty.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
I can't believe he's in his sixties. Can't believe how
good he looks. I was thinking he did not look
old enough to be Jennifer Salt's character's dad, Like, yeah,
she's apparently supposed to be like thirty, and I was
reading him as like, I don't know, early forties.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that's one of the reasons
he had such a long career. But the character, there's much,
there's much, I don't know how much we want to
get into right now, but he's maybe not the most
likable protagonists. Like not to say he's in like full
blown anti hero domain or anything, but a lot of

(35:59):
a lot of questions are like, this is really the
guy we're gonna stick with, this is our hero.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
This is not on Cornell Wilde as an actor, but
just the way the character is written is strange. He's
characterized oddly from the get go with the they make
some strange choices about his level of sincerity in his
own work, and then also at the end, yeah, you
really get into like, wait, who's the real bad guy here?

(36:26):
Territory that does not seem to be acknowledged by the film.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
Yeah, yeah, I agree. Now, playing his daughter, Diana, who
we just mentioned, is Jennifer Salt born nineteen forty two
American actress who previously appeared in nineteen sixty Nine's A
Midnight Cowboy, which her father, her father Waldo Salt, wrote
the Academy Award winning screenplay for. She was also in
seventy two's Played Again Sam for TV and sixty five

(36:52):
episodes of the TV series Soap. She's remained very active
as a producer, and this is interesting talking about TV
horror because she is Slash was a producer on American
Horror Story, which is in a totally different TV horror
ecosystem than what we have in the nineteen seventies, but notable.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
Nonetheless, you know who though in this would really fit
in on the season of American Horror Story would be
Grayson Hall as Miss Parks. Doesn't that like an American
Horror Story character?

Speaker 1 (37:24):
I would say, yeah, out of the characters we encounter, definitely, definitely,
And speaking yeah, Grayson Hall, her character Miss Parks. This
is our noisy hotel lady who is always nursing a
water glass half full of dark liquor.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
You know, Julian from Trailer Park Boys.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
Yeah, yeah. So. Grayson Hall lived nineteen twenty two through
nineteen eighty five an American actress who was nominated for
an Oscar for her supporting role in nineteen sixty five's
The Night of the Iguana, directed by John Houston, and
she's perhaps best known for playing the psychologist doctor Julia
Hoffman on TV's Dark Shadows and the nineteen seventy movie

(38:06):
House of Dark Shadows. I'm only vaguely familiar with the
Dark Shadows world via seeing like bits and pieces of
episode I think on the Sci Fi Channel back in
the nineties, but this was apparently a major character. This
was essentially, I think, originally sort of a Van Helsing
sort of character who becomes more of a collaborator with

(38:27):
the family of supernatural characters. Huh. Grayson Hall also appeared
in nineteen sixty two's Satan in High Heels and nineteen
sixty five's That Darn Cat.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
I hear it's pretty darned yeah, But.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
In this film, definite character work you know, and it's
amusing for what it is.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
So you mentioned she has a glass of liquor in
her hand in all of her scenes, which starts off being,
you know, she's in her apartment, or then she's walking
next door from her apartment to another apartment. But it
becomes increasingly absurd because in later scenes she's that way,
like in a police station or like getting into a
truck as a passenger.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, it's like it's glued to her hand or something.
It's absolutely part of her ensemble the whole time, all right,
playing the gargoyle, not the only gargoyle in the picture,
but the main gargoyle. The leader of the gargoyles is
Bernie Casey, who lived nineteen thirty nine through twenty seventeen
NFL Pro football player turn actor, artist and poet. He

(39:28):
had to look up the football details here for sure,
but he apparently played for the forty nine Ers and
the Rams, not at the same time, like one and
then the other. I don't remember which one came first.
Think forty nine Ers first, then the Rams played for
them in the nineteen sixties, and then made the transition
into acting first with nineteen sixty nine's guns of the
Magnificent Seven. So at this point in his career he'd

(39:50):
had a string of credits, but it was still pretty early,
and this might be part of the reason, I'm guessing
why his voice ends up being cut. More on that
in a minute. But we don't actually hear Bernie Casey
in the picture. It's but still it's a solid physical
monster suit performance. Bernie Casey was like six', four you,

(40:10):
know and you, know strongly, built so you, know he
occupies that monster suit rather well and looms very well
over the human. Characters also has very expressive eyes that work.
Well you, know all this works well to establish the
presence of the lead.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
Gargoyle, YEAH i would say this is one of those
cases where the performance comes through even though the actor
is hidden behind makeup in a costume and we're not
hearing their original.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
Voice you.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
Know Some santo movies we've watched are like, that where
like a physical performance is good enough that it gets
through all of the apparatus and through the.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
Dubbing, yeah, YEAH i, mean and again coming back To spanish,
cinema Like Paul, nashy we almost never Hear Paul nashi's actual,
voice and the same goes for a number Of spanish
actors at the. Time, so but, yeah So Bernie casey
is our. Gargoyle early on in his career he appeared
in such black exploitation titles As Black chariot seventy, One
Cleopatrick jones seventy, three as well as seventy. Six Is

(41:08):
Doctor Black Mister hyde that we've mentioned that, before because
that was the follow up To blackula by Director William,
crane WHICH i haven't seen. Yet i've got the disc
But i've heard good things about, it AND i haven't
seen these other pictures THAT i just mentioned. Either and you,
know as we've talked about before when we've brought up

(41:29):
black exploitation, cinema is that sometimes that's kind of a big,
tint and it may include films that are more or
less in the exploitive category of, things you. Know SO
i can't speak to any of these pictures, individually except For,
blackula which we did an episode on last year and
recently re. Ran but out of This Bernie casey ends

(41:51):
up moving into all manner of, films Including The Man
Who fell To, earth of which we previously discussed On Weird.
HOUSE a small but poignant. Part he won a nineteen
seventy FOUR Naacp Image award for his role In, maury
in which he starred Opposite Bose, vincent who is Not
frankenstein's monster in that. Picture subsequent film roles included eighty

(42:11):
One Sharky's, machine eighty Three's Never Say Never, AGAIN A
James Bond, picture eighty Four's revenge of The, nerds eighty
Eight So I'm going To Get You sucka eighty Nine's
bill And Ted's Excellent adventure nineteen nineties and other forty Eight,
hours ninety, Twos Under, siege ninety five's in The mouth Of,
madness ninety Six's Once upon A Time When We Were,
colored and his final film was two thousand and Seven's Vegas.

(42:34):
Vampires he also did a fair amount OF tv, work
including seventy One's Brian, song nineteen, Eighties The Martian chronicles
based on the work Of Ray, bradberry And Star Trek
Deep space, nine among. Others Now, again in this, picture
he is Dubbed he's dubbed By Vic, perrin who's also
the narrator at the beginning of the. Picture paren lived
nineteen sixteen through nineteen eighty, nine perhaps best known as

(42:56):
the control voice on the Original Outer Limits control The,
Horizontal We control The. Vertical he also appeared on SUCH
tv series As The Original Star trek And The Original Mission.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
Impossible they give him a real metallic voice in, this don't.
They he almost sounds like HE'S i don't, know echoing
through a ten box or. Something.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
YEAH i can't SAY i loved, it BUT i mean
it works well. Enough AND i don't know what the
original audio sounded. LIKE i Think i've read that the
filmmakers just thought that the original vocal performance didn't match
the creature that they were, creating and you, know they
decided they needed to go with Vic. Pearen SO i don't.

(43:36):
Know and again early on in the career of the
Actor Bernie casey, here SO i don't know if that
played into it at all as.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
Well, well no offense to Vic, peren but give us
The Bernie casey. Cut give it to us, cowards you've got.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
It, YEAH i, Mean Bernie casey had a great, voice
so you, Know i'd like to hear. It BUT i
looked around for, it in, fact BUT i couldn't find
any evidence of. It all, right moving on through the,
cast here we also Have Scott glenn popping up playing
the Character. James what is this? Reager, Reager, yeah one
of the dirt bike.

Speaker 3 (44:07):
Boys we didn't mention right at the top that this
in some ways is a gargoyles versus bikers.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Movie, yes, Yeah eventually the threat of The gargoyles will
unite the natural enemies of bikers and cops will come
together to battle the gargoyle. Menace So Scott, GLENN i,
think is a name THAT i think most of you
are probably familiar, with perhaps born in nineteen thirty, nine
Though i've seen some pages and databases that are a

(44:34):
little vague on this as if it's. Unknown but he
is still alive because he's very, Active like he's just
in THE tv Series Bad, monkey WHICH i really, enjoyed
and also he's in the latest season Of The White,
lotus so again very. Active Great american character, actor perhaps
most appreciated for those grizzled character roles that he would,
do you, know mid and later, career but his, SCREEN

(44:57):
tv And broadway credits go back to the mid, sixties
so he'd already been in a handful of things Before.
Gargoyles he went on to appear In Apocalypse now in seventy,
nine which was kind of a shock to me because
he's largely unrecognizable to my eyes. Anyway he's, Bearded he's
kind of not one of the more prominent, characters but
he is in.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
IT i don't remember.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
That he's In More American, graffiti nineteen Eighty's Urban, cowboy
and he Plays rick in the nineteen eighty Two John
frankenheimer kickboxer samurai Film The. Challenge. What, YEAH i haven't seen,
it But i'm familiar with. IT i Think i've watched
the trailer a few. Times but things really picked up
at this point in his career because the subsequent pictures

(45:39):
he was in included nineteen eighty Three Is The Right,
stuff in which he Plays Alan. Shepard he's In Michael
Mann's The, keep and his other credits include eighty Five, silverado,
Nineties The hunt For Red october ninety, One The silence
of The lambs two thousand and One's Training, day and
SUCH tv shows As, Daredevil The leftovers and Again Bad.
Monkey in the latest season Of White, Look.

Speaker 3 (46:01):
I'm not gonna Say Scott glynn is swinging for the
fences in this. Movie he's he's it feels like he's
just kind of turning in a workaday. Performance but he's
a good, actor so he does better than you might
imagine selling lines about you, know he's like in a
prison cell talking To Jennifer salt about whether gargoyles are,
real and he at one point he has to say

(46:24):
something like they were attacked by one of those gar,
things and you know he's making it.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Through. Yeah let's see a couple of small. Performers i'm
including them because you did a screenshot of their credit
at the. End we HAVE tv style credits at the
end of this picture right where we see their picture

(46:50):
in the name of the actor the name of the.
Character we Have William stevens playing Police chief dates unknown
as far AS i could tell on this actor mostly
A tv play whose credits include the Original Outer limits
in nineteen seventy One's The Mephisto. Waltz and then we
also Have John gruber Playing, jesse another cop who lived
nineteen forty two through nineteen eighty, one mostly A tv

(47:12):
player whose credits Include Night. Gallery now this according TO.
IMDb i have not been able to verify this, elsewhere
BUT IMDb claims that he is the father Of Joshua,
todd the lead singer often shirtless of the. Band Butck
cherry AND i have to, say this feels too random
to not be, true so please correct me If i'm

(47:35):
wrong out. There But i'm going, to at least for,
now accept this as.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
Reality it would be a hilarious project to just make
up facts like.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
That, YEAH i, MEAN i think people are that. Bored
they've done it before ON, IMDb so that's WHY i
do want to add the caveat that this might not be,
true but it also feels too weird and specific to
be anything but.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
Reality you know this seventies actor you've never heard. Of
he's the dad of the like the cocaine.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
Guy so, wait, wait they had a song about.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
Cocaine that's the One Buck cherry. SONG i know you
know what the song. IS i love the. Cocaine oh,
MAN i.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Don't maybe maybe We're i'm remembering the same, song BUT
i didn't know what they were saying in. IT i
haven't thought About Buck cherry in a long. TIME i
just remember that he was like shirtless in the music.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
VIDEOS i think we've got a lot of tattoos done.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
There, yeah, yeah shirtless and, tattooed all, right and then uh,
oh we have the character Of Uncle willie played By
woodrow Or Woody, chambliss who lived nineteen fourteen through nineteen eighty,
One american character actor of, stage screen AND tv who
made numerous memorable appearances on THE tv western Gun. Smoke

(48:43):
and you know he has already popped up On Weird
house because he plays a very similar role In The
Devil's rain from nineteen seventy.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
Five oh, yeah, yeah he just really slots right in
as the kind kind of weird old desert.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Codure, yeah you need a weird old dude in the
desert mum about dark, Secrets, well then call call Up
woody because he'll, he'll he can totally do. It his
other credits include nineteen fifty seven's three ten To yuma
and nineteen seventy Eight Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club, band
which of course Starred Peter frampton and the Bee. Gees

(49:19):
i'm ALWAYS i have had that revelation many times over
the years that this is not a movie with the
Actual beatles in.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
It, well you know what the song, Says Sergeant, pepper
he taught the band to, play so it's you, know
it's like the second. Generation.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
YEAH i Think woody plays like the senior Sergeant pepper's in,
that BUT i Can't i've never seen, it SO i
can't say much on, that BUT i will say That
woody's a lot of fun in. THIS i feel like
it's perhaps the best performance in the whole. Movie, though
as you mentioned, earlier it does change drastically over the
course of a commercial. Break.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
Yeah he goes from shrewdly negotiating a book deal to
suddenly just being like shaky and drunk and clearly making
up lies about something about like folklore he was.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Told, yeah and he also goes from being, like, hey
you need to help me write my book to you
believe me or you get out of my shed right.
Now and it happens rather. Swiftly All. Right we mentioned
that Stan winston was behind the look of the. Creatures,
indeed he is credited with The gargoyle. Makeup Stan winston

(50:22):
lived nineteen forty six through two thousand and, eight a legendary,
name multiple Time Oscar award winner and nominee for such
films as eighty Seven's, aliens eighty, Eight predator ninety One's
Edward Scissor, hands ninety Two's terminator, two and ninety Four's Jurassic.
Park he had studied sculpture and moved To hollywood to
pursue a career in, acting but ended up taking a
makeup apprenticeship At Walt Disney. Studios gargoyles was his first,

(50:44):
picture and he followed this up with a number of
early pictures of, note including nineteen seventy four as The Bat,
people WHICH i believe that one was featured On Mystery
Science theater and had, some as you'd, expect cool monster.
Effects he also did makeup on nineteen seventy six Is
Doctor Black Mister, hyde which we just. Mentioned his mini
credits range from small pictures to big, ones from serious

(51:07):
dramas without any kind of speculative element to just you, know,
horror sci fi and fantasy pictures with extravagant visions of
monsters and robots and what have. You as a, director
he gave us a handful of, films including nineteen eighty Eight's.
PUMPKINHEAD i will also throw in, that. Yes his other
credits include nineteen seventy Seven's Dracula's dog Aka Zoltan hound

(51:29):
Of dracula.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
Aka a different movie than the other one we, mentioned.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Right, Right, yeah there are a number OF i don't,
know is this like canine'esploitation. Cinema there's like a whole
supernatural dog cinematic universe out there during the seventies and.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
Eighties Satanicus, Rex The Bow wow Of, hell.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
All, right and then finally the. Music the composer here
Is Robert, prince who live nineteen twenty nine through two
thousand and. Seven and you, KNOW i often talk about
films that have nineteen Seventies Night gallery, sound you, know
kind of slightly, surreal slightly disturbing music that's maybe a
little bit, jazzy AND i honestly can't get enough of
it with these. Films but today's selection certainly has that,

(52:16):
sound and the man responsible for it actually composed music
for episodes Of Night, gallery so not the theme song
From Night, gallery but he did do the episode music
for three season one.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
EPISODES i would say the music In gargoyles is for
what it, is it's pretty. Good there aren't really any
especially memorable themes or melodies or anything like, that but
a lot of it's just kind of, eerie ambient, sound
and for that it's pretty.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
GOOD i wonder how much of That AND i don't
know enough about how theme songs and episodic music worked
ON tv in the, day BUT i wonder how much
of it was around like you're not supposed to stand
doubt in the episode, Itself like you don't want, to
you don't want to interfere with the theme. Song like
the theme song is doing the heavy lifting and you're

(53:08):
just here to add the necessary ambiance and emotional support
throughout the. Episode and maybe that's part of the character
of what we have. Here you, know we don't have
something that feels like The gargoyles theme, song though what
if we, did that would be amazing as well with the. Lyrics,
yeah but, Anyway prince worked also worked on THE Tv

(53:29):
Richard matheson anthology Series circle Of, fear which is hosted
by hosted by The Sebastian. Cabot he worked mostly IN,
tv but also scored a pair of noteworthy nineteen seventy six,
films the black exploitation horror Film JD's revenge And Jeff Lieberman's.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
Squirm, Sorry i'm distracted thinking about what nineteen seventies rocker
would write the Best gargoyles theme. Song i'm kind of
thinking in The Steve miller.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
Zone, yeah can.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
Can you imagine? That it's a it's a sort OF
j seventies rock.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
Tune, yeah, yeah, YEAH i could see that. Working Like
i'm instantly reminded of the nineteen seventy one Film zat
or The bloodwaters Of DOCTOR z which we've talked, about
which has that great theme song that is really like
all about sympathizing with the villain of the picture in
ways that the picture maybe doesn't completely back. Up SO

(54:23):
i could see something like that working, here some sort
of folksy ballad about the plight of the car. Coil
what's that? One?

Speaker 3 (54:29):
Is Like World war three boy or? Something World war two?

Speaker 1 (54:32):
Boy That's World war two? Boy oh, yeah and, Yeah
i'm trying to remember who did that. Offhand jamie, Defrates jamie,
Defrates that's who it. Was sachet through the. Sarcasm, okay
you ready to talk about the. Plot yeah, yeah let's
dive right in with some.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
Woodcuts, yeah so we get a cold open with The
Outer limits voiceover. Narration it's that metallic electronic sound Of
vic Paren, right he's the one doing. It, yeah, yeah
talking at a. Forcefully while we see various images of,
yeah old woodcuts paintings with demonic, themes there's definitely some

(55:07):
bosh in, there and also photos of grotesque statues on cathedral.
Architecture the very first critter we see is kind of interesting.
LOOKING i don't know what this is, from but it
looks like a cross between a lamb's face and The
Lance hendrickson morph of pumpkinhead for Another Stan winston tie.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
In oh it, does DOESN'T i, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
But ALSO i pulled out a screenshot for you to
look at, Here. ROB i like the demon with the
kind of, lumpy bulbous. Face it's kind of a tumor.
Face AND i did a reverse image search and found nothing.
Soul this could be original to the. MOVIE i don't.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
Know, yeah it almost looks like a, Tattoo like it's
a picture of somebody's like abs or. SOMETHING i don't.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
Know, yeah, Anyway i've got to read the opening narration
because this will lay the, groundwork So Vic parrien, says
as if speaking through kind of decaying. Circuitry parents says
the devil was once the most favored of the host
of angels serving The lord but pride welled in his.

(56:06):
Breast he thought it unseemly for him to serve the
devil In his band of, followers who likewise suffered the
sin of, pride were defeated in battle by The lord
and his, host and were banished to the outermost depths of,
hell never to know the presence of The lord or
look on heaven. Again smarting with his, wounds but all

(56:28):
the more swollen with, pride the devil cried out from the.
Depths it is better to rule in hell than serve in.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Heaven all, right so you know thus, far you know
there's a very strong paradise lost theme here.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
Exactly war in, heaven the, demons the rebellious angels are,
Defeated they fall to. Pandemonium and, yeah better to serve
in or rule in, hell than serve in. Heaven but
it goes, on it says the devil. Proclaimed what was
lost in heaven would be gained on. Earth he, said my,
offspring the gargoyles will one day rule The lord's works

(57:04):
earth and. Man and so it came to pass that
while man ruled On, earth the, gargoyles, weighted, lurking hidden
from the, light reborn every six hundred, years In man's
reckoning of, time the gargoyles joined battle against man to
gain dominion over the. Earth in each, coming the gargoyles

(57:25):
were nearly destroyed by, men who flourished in greater. Numbers
now it has been so many hundreds of years that
it seems the ancient statues and paintings of gargoyles are
just products of man's. Imagination in this, year with man's
thoughts turned toward the many ills he has brought upon,
himself man has forgotten his most ancient, adversary the. Gargoyles

(57:51):
this is funny to me in so many. Ways first of,
all no acknowledgment really of the architectural, connection except that
it says like it's A now it's been many hundreds of,
years it seems the statues and paintings are just. Imagination
SO i guess it's saying every six hundred years of
what from nineteen seventy. Two that would mean in thirteen
seventy two the gargoyles were, Last they emerged and were,

(58:14):
Defeated people made statues and, paintings and then since thirteen
seventy two people were, like, ah that was all just made. Up,
also the movie seems to simply believe gargoyle equals. Demon
it's just the.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
Same this, also of, course feels like one of the
most tacked on intro narration bits That i've ever, heard you,
know where someone's, like, yeah we really need something at
the beginning to draw folks in and let them know
what's to. Come so let's bring in vic paren and
have him read, something write something up for.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
Me, yeah you got to kind of reconcile. Everything also
while that's going, On so AGAIN i, said we see
a bunch of these paintings and, stuff BUT i wanted
to pull out rob one picture that was pretty. Good who's, this,
like shirtless guy who's laying, Back, well just a stream
of on iteas to find liquid pours into his. Mouth.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Nice. NICE i feel like this was partially recreated In.
Labyrinth there's a scene where goblins drinking drippings from some
sort of a. Barrel but, yeah we see a lot
of horrific imagery in the, background some of it like
ultimately a little harder than anything we see later, On
but it makes sense if you're wanting to get something

(59:23):
right there at the top to let folks know that
they're in for a demonic horror, picture even if it's
going to be mostly boring desert scenes at. First this
is a pretty cheap way to do, It like have
narration that mentions the devil and all, this and then
throw in a bunch of clip, art you, know a
bunch of you, know old woodcuts and details From bosh
paintings that are going to really drive that home for. Folks.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
Yeah, so, anyway once the ancient mariner has let go
of our arms and stopped yelling at, us we plunk
down on an air strip in The American southwest and
we see like there's a single engine prop plane coming
to a stop in the four a bigger passenger plane
landing in the, background and the title of the movie
slams up on the screen in the same green slime

(01:00:08):
font used for The goosebumps.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Books this font just screens. Fun i'm not saying that
fun will necessarily be had in the opening sequences of this,
picture but the font is very. Fun so we.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
Come up on a parking lot next to the airstrip
and Here's Cornell. Wild he parks his, car which is
a sort of, pale drab toothpaste foam green color of
station wagon and he gets. Out he's waiting for. Somebody
one THING i briefly wanted to, flag just because it interested.
ME i noticed while pausing and taking screenshots of this

(01:00:50):
movie that there are different visual artifacts than WHAT i
usually see WHEN i pause a. MOVIE i paused it
here With Cornell wild in motion and running from his,
car and he's, blurry which is not. Surprising but the
way that he's blurry is that he seems to be
surrounded by a haze of, horizontal dark spines protruding from

(01:01:15):
the outline of his, body almost taking the form of
a sort of data. Pinhead i've got to zoom in
here for you to look. AT i don't know exactly
what causes, this BUT i have to suspect it has
to do with the fact that this movie was made FOR,
tv so maybe it was shot on a different kind of,
camera maybe A tv video camera of the, kind maybe

(01:01:35):
shot on video to magnetic tape instead of to. Film
AND i don't really, know BUT i thought that was. Interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Yeah, YEAH i don't THINK i did much pausing on.
MINE i wasn't getting any screen caps and, all SO
i didn't notice. This but this is a great.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
Point, anyway the character played By Cornell wilde is Again
Professor Mercer, bowley and the person he is waiting for
here at the airstrip is his adult, Daughter Diana, ble
played By Jennifer. Salt and she she gets off the,
plane we see her like, disembarking and she is clutching
in the crook of her arm a cat sized demon.

(01:02:10):
Statue so she meets up with her father and they
hug and have their you, know they're, reunited and he,
Says i'm so glad you decided to join me and
bring Me. Calamudri and we see. This we never get
a really good look at this, statue but it does
look tremendous from from the angles we do get And,
rob you ended up digging up something about where this

(01:02:33):
demon statue came.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
From, YEAH i mean part of. IT i didn't remember
that i'd seen this, before BUT i KNOW i. WASN'T
i didn't remember all the plot, elements AND i WAS
i was looking Up calamudri Because i'm, like all, right
this is going to factor into the plot, Maybe AND
i was curious if this name had any, actual you,
know connection to demons in any culture, mythology h AND
i don't think it, does BUT i ended up running

(01:02:56):
across the details of the sculpture that we see. Here
as it turns, out the sculpture of the demoning question
was made By california based Artist Jim. Rumph that's R
U m P h who lived nineteen forty two through
nineteen ninety, three and as far AS i can, tell
he was a mad potter in the grand tradition of
mad potters for.

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
Sure, yeah there's a there's like a website about his
career THAT i didn't get all that deep, into but
it just it exudes weird.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
Wildness that's, right the rump dot, Com so that's th
r u mph dot. COM i highly recommend checking it.
Out you can see a lot of his work. There
so he was highly active in the late sixties and
the seventies and the, eighties and he worked out of
his own Slime factory studio In Santa. Monica that's s
l Y me by the. Way AND i even found

(01:03:48):
a business card printed on cardboard for the slime factory
there for, You. Joe it has the original address AND
i think phone number of the, studio AND i looked
it up to see what's there, today and it's you,
know it's like a modern house or condo or. Something
but back in the, day this is where The Slime factory,
was and it's, where, apparently from WHAT i could gather
on the, website various counterculture bohemian artists seemed to gather

(01:04:11):
for what was called The Mind. Circus according to The
rump Dot, com this is Where jim created all manner
of sculptures from like demon helms and wizard bongs too
officially Licensed Star wars, tankards so you, know we're talking
like Handcrafted Star wars mugs straight from the. Kiln and

(01:04:33):
apparently the situation here is Like lucas knew of his.
Work George lucas like officially allowed him to produce these
as Licensed Star wars memorabilia in the late nineteen seventies
or early.

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
EIGHTIES i could be wrong about, this but from my,
understanding that is a rare, honor like not Have lucas say, like, uh,
oh you can't do.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
That, yeah But i've seen some pictures of and some
of them a lot of his work is readily available On,
eBay like he can pick up A rump mug or
WHAT i believed to be an Official rump mug for
like twenty, Bucks but if you want to get A
Star wars one like An obi Wan, kenobi you're looking
at two hundred bucks. Thereabouts look around explore the world

(01:05:17):
for yourself if you want to invest in some, Art
but they're at the Slime. Factory according to The rump dot,
com they also made casts of everyone's navels so they
could display them on the. Wall and, yeah it sounds
like he was a real wild. Character and, Yeah i've
just found it really interesting that this one little sculpture
that doesn't factor into the plot much at all at, All,
yeah has this connection to this underground artist who seems

(01:05:41):
to have enjoyed us a kind of a resurgence in recent.
Years according to that, website like a lot of people
have kind of forgotten About Jim, rump and a lot
of it's you, know coalescing once. More but that website
includes listings for not only the sculpture we see, here
but also like a painting or drawling THAT i guess
was kind of like the concept art for the.

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
Piece, well Maybe Jennifer salt's character is supposed to be
a friend Of.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
Rum's, maybe SO i, mean she seems like a free spirited.
GAL i don't know where she's flying in. From he's
got some hippie.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
Energy, Yeah so she gives it to her, Dad Mercer,
bolli and he's, like oh Boyd he like puts it
in a box and he, Says calamudri will just about
complete my collection of. Demons so through dialogue we learn
a bit about their family. Situation mercer And diana's mother
are now divorced and the mother has, remarried and it's

(01:06:35):
discussed That diana and her mother don't see each other.
Much diana seems to be maybe in her like late
twenties or maybe about. Thirty and we are going to
learn That mercer is a professor who, researches it seems
both archaeology and, anthropology AND i guess also like folklore under,
anthropology and he writes books for a, living and this

(01:06:57):
involves a lot of. Travels so it used to be
normal For diana and her mother to accompany him on
these research, trips but that hasn't happened in a, while
and Now diana is excited to join her dad for
a new. Project it's not spelled out explicitly, well it nearly.
IS i think she is a photographer who takes pictures
that will be used in his. Books did you understand

(01:07:19):
it that? Way?

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Right? Right, yeah he's put working on the next, book
like that's that's al he makes the bacon and he
needs some photographs of. Something he's going out into the
field to get some content for the next.

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
Book so they're about to talk more about. That but
before we get, THERE i have to MENTION i typically
am going to avoid making fun of the appearance of child,
actors BUT i have to point out there's this kid
in the. Background like the way the light is falling
on this blonde child with dark. Eyes he looks like
he's like sorting through the baggage card at the, airport

(01:07:55):
and he looks like the spawn Of Rutger hower And Emperor.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
PALPATINE i was confused by this kid because at, first
like AS i was beginning to sort of ease into the,
PICTURE i thought this kid was with, them and THEN
i even thought he was in the station wagon with. Them,
later because it looks like there's something moving in the
back of the station, WAGON i was, Like, oh as a, person,
yeah So i'm, LIKE i guess this is the younger.
Brother but then THEN i realized, later, like, no this

(01:08:19):
kid has no connection to these, characters so he's just.
Gone we never see him. Again, yeah bye.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
Bye, Anyway mercer And diana they get in the station,
wagon they drive off into the, desert and then chat
awkwardly About mercer's career for the benefit of the. Audience,
ROB i think you were calling attention to some of
these dialogue scenes in the car at the beginning as
being especially. Funny.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
Yeah, yeah we have some sequences where it's just the
station wagon driving, along no interior shots and just dialogue. Voiceover,
yeah we eventually do enter the vehicle with them for,
conversations and, YEAH i enjoy all of the scenes with
the station, wagon including some later on that are Very
GARTH marangi dark. Place, oh it's clearly like filmed, inside

(01:09:04):
with people shaking the car on both, sides.

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
With the gargoyles clinging to the roof that's obviously secured
there by some, anyway so we learn from their dialogue
That Mercer bully, is AS i, said archaeologist and, anthropologist
but his work focuses especially on demons and, monsters and
he is not just your average. Academic he is a

(01:09:28):
media superstar who writes best selling, books and he gets
booked ON tv talk. Shows apparently his gig is telling
people that, demons, devils and witchcraft are not. Real they
are only. Superstition so they're they're setting him up as
a kind Of James randy Of satanic. Monsterdom you may

(01:09:49):
think demons and devils and monsters are, real but they're.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
Not, yeah you can imagine him even being On carson
back in the, day like you, know like a Late
tonight show ga that pops up and has some fun
With johnny talking about some demon like maybe he even
brings in this.

Speaker 3 (01:10:04):
Sculpture but Then diana is, like she, Goes, dad do
you really believe the world of evil is nothing more
than a? Fantasy and he, replies who knows? It sells my?
Books what a bizarre aura of anti verisimilitude the writers
have conjured here with this. Character so a few. Things

(01:10:26):
first of, all the idea of like he's a professor
who specializes in demons and monsters and who rakes in
the cash by publishing books claiming the demons and monsters
are not. Real let me tell you that is absolutely
where the money IS.

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
I, Mean i've bought plenty of books about demons and,
monsters and those authors are not claiming they're. Real, well but.

Speaker 3 (01:10:50):
It's not just that he's not claiming they're. Real he's
writing books to be like that demon not.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
Real yeah, Real, Yeah he's it's not just about this
is an important folk, belief more of the sense that he's,
like demons are. Nonsense, now let me show you some.

Speaker 3 (01:11:03):
Pictures, Yeah and they like set him up on THESE
tv talk shows to like argue with witches and. Stuff
so that's his public, persona but we find out in
private he doesn't actually have a position on whether demons
are real or. Not it's just a character he insincerely
adopts because that's how he makes, money that's what the public.

(01:11:24):
Wants Bizarre, anyway he is currently working on a book
called five Thousand years Of, demonology and the goal of
this book will be to quote Trace man's conception of
evil from three THOUSAND bc to the.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
Present, yeah and he said it's going to be a
big seller Come christmas, season like this is the one
everyone's gonna want on their living room, table like big
coffee table vibes.

Speaker 3 (01:11:51):
Here, Yeah and of Course diana's photos are going to
be in the book as. Well but SO i guess
this is like the first leg of the trip to
research this. Book they're currently en route to meet a
gin guzzling desert crank the professor has been corresponding with
who claims to have knowledge Of Devil, monster and so
they're going to be driving for a while to get,

(01:12:12):
there and boy strap yourself in for these driving. Scenes
there's even a scene where they take a wrong turn
and have to go back five.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
Miles, yeah, yeah you. Can this is where you begin
to understand why we have that tact on narration and
the sequence of demonic. Imagery BUT i.

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
Will, say, ACTUALLY i guess the wrong turn scene is
the first time we see a, gargoyle not actually, see
but indirectly, see because as the car comes to a,
stop we see it framed from far. Away we're like
up on a rocky hill, nearby and suddenly there is
a winged humanoid shadow that falls over the, rocks and this,
unsettling fluttering electronic music kicks, in and you know it's

(01:12:52):
conjuring some decent.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
Atmosphere, yeah, YEAH i mean it's often pointed out, that you,
know nighttime is certainly a great place for supernatural threats to,
reside but sometimes if you do it, right the daytime
can be equally. Terrifying AND i mean here we do
have a desolate desert. Environment there is there is kind
of a weird sense that like how could they not

(01:13:14):
see something so? Big but THEN i don't know you're
thinking about like direct. Sun it is possible for things
to sort of hide in the, Sun So i'm willing
to grant the believability to this.

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
SCENE i think daytime in the desert can be a scary.
Environment there's kind of still in this stillness to desert
air that can be a little. Creepy.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
Yeah, Yeah and, again like the sun can be be bright,
thing and they're plenty of natural creatures that can hide
quite well in the open desert so that humans can't see.
Them and we can easily imagine that a gargoyle could
do the.

Speaker 3 (01:13:47):
SAME i like these, oyles, YEAH i like out on
the way to the meeting, place next they start seeing
these these signs beside the, road like they're about to
meet The. Riddler they're just these Big riddler question, marks.

Speaker 1 (01:14:02):
Big like weird unofficial, Signs like there's no sense that
these are official like highway, signs like some old kook
has been setting these up to try and get the tourist.

Speaker 3 (01:14:12):
Traffic, yeah they promise a two headed mystery, lizard a
snake de, in and a monster that flies, flys as
well as cold. Beer and so when we get to the,
destination it is Called Uncle Willie's Desert. Museum, yes the
pick of fence is falling. Over, yes there's a donkey out. Front,
yes the roof is littered with cow.

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
Skulls it looks, great it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:35):
Does, yeah and inside it looks like The sawyer family lives.
Here It's tcum. Mansion.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
Yeah, yeah and Again Uncle woody is. Great this is
a great character performance. Here end up wanting more than we, get.

Speaker 3 (01:14:49):
Right so he's like already, sweaty AND i think probably
been drinking when he first meets. Them he comes out
and he's, like why DON'T i just get you some?

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
Beers how cold do these? Beers end up? Looking by the,
WAY i don't know about. That all, Right so the cold,
beer presumably cold, beer has been. Served.

Speaker 3 (01:15:14):
Yeah so the short version On willie is that he
wrote to Doctor bowley saying he has records of local
Native american exorcism, rights and he also has some artifacts to.
Share But willie tries to kind of flip the. Script he's, Like,
HEY i saw you ON tv with all your fancy book.
LEARNING i am in possession of a gargoyle, skeleton AND

(01:15:37):
i want you to co author a book with me
with my picture on the, cover BECAUSE i, MEAN i
agree that would sell. BOOKS i would buy any book
that had a picture Of Uncle willy on the.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
Cover and at, first the professor is just, like see you.
Later we're gone. Walking we're just walking now and walking
out of this. Store AND i guess maybe in the long,
run like this was in a go sheiating, tactic but
when it occurs in the, film it just makes him
seem like a huge, Jerk, like, dude you just flew in,
here drove however long through the desert to Meet, willie

(01:16:11):
and you're just gonna immediately walk out on him without
hearing him out a little.

Speaker 3 (01:16:14):
Bit, yeah, yeah But willy's also driving a hard. Bargain,
Yeah SO willi takes them out to his gargoyle shack
where he keeps the. Skeleton it's like a human skeleton
in the body sort Of, ACTUALLY i guess it's not
so much it's, bipedal you, know it's, upright but it's got,
wings it's got claws instead of. Toes and then the

(01:16:35):
head has horns and a giant.

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
Beak. YEAH i think someone who has a better head
for anatomy might look at this skeleton and have some
serious questions about how it all comes together.

Speaker 3 (01:16:46):
Here, Yeah and of Course bully doesn't believe it at.
First he's, like this is a concoction of unrelated. Bones
he says he admires the, artistry but he rejects the
reality of. It But willie is. Adamant so he's got
a bunch of stories of how the local tribes had
to hold off these monsters with sacrifices and rituals for

(01:17:06):
hundreds of. Years and then there's a little moment Where
diana starts taking pictures While willie's back is, turned and
he gets very upset about. This no pictures without a.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
Deal, yeah and he's really good in the. Scene he's totally.
Raving but NOW i will say that this mention of
the native practices that were so effective at containing and
holding off the, gargoyles this sounds really, intriguing and you
might be tempted to think this is going to come
into play now that they've rolled this cannon out on.
Deck but, no, no it's not going to come up.

Speaker 3 (01:17:36):
Again, Well willie gets drunk and he starts trying to
like tell some of these tales as told to, him
but it sounds like he's just making it up as
he goes.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
Along, Mmm, NO i don't, know are just having a
hard time. Remembering it would have been an interesting twist
if like these were really the like native lore was
really key to defeating the. Gargoyles and you, know all
these our contemporary characters here are unable to defeat the
gargoyles in the end because they no longer have access
to that.

Speaker 3 (01:18:03):
Information, no it turns out what's crucial to defeating the
gargoyles are, guns, gasoline and bashing with.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
Rocks that's.

Speaker 3 (01:18:10):
Right so in the middle of all, this the gargoyle
shack is suddenly it comes under. Attack. Outside there was
a fluttering of leathery, wings the walls start, shaking and
something is shredding through the door with huge catlike. Claws
and in the middle of all, this a big roof
beam falls down and Hits. Willy everything catches on. Fire

(01:18:31):
mercer And diana run. Away they like run out to
their car to, escape And diana's, like oh, Look Uncle,
willy And mercer's just, like leave. Him he's.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
Dead, yeah very quick to write him, up and then
he gets hit in the head and then he's caught on.
Fire BUT i don't, know it seemed like there was a.

Speaker 3 (01:18:47):
Possibility, yeah they didn't really investigate too. Close they just you,
know get to leave. Him he's dead very. Easily but
they do stop to grab the gargoyle. Skull so there's
an escape sequence in the Station wagon that involves several
more gargoyle attacks in the. Dark there's like one clinging
to the, roof WHICH i believe they dislodge by way

(01:19:08):
of a three point. Turn and then also you, know
they're attacking the. Window the car gets really banged. Up and,
meanwhile while they're driving, away they're listening to the playback
of the audio tape they were making Of willie when
the shack was.

Speaker 1 (01:19:23):
Attacked, yeah on all this section, here this is where
we get some of those Great Garth marange dark place
ask shake the car in a dark, room yes.

Speaker 3 (01:19:32):
Effects so after they finned off the gargoyle, attacks it's
time to go to The Gargoyle. Motel they like drop
their car off at an all night service station in
the middle of the. Desert that's. Convenient, yeah there's a
motel right. Nearby and The gargoyles really tore the car.
Up it is slashed to, pieces and so they go

(01:19:53):
over to this. MOTEL i looked this. Up this was
a real motel Near, Carlsbad New mexico that was called
The Cactus. Motel as like a sort of Roadside america
POST i found refers to it as The Gargoyles.

Speaker 1 (01:20:07):
Motel, yeah and apparently no longer. Around you, KNOW i
might otherwise be inclined to say it's a tragedy that
we lost such an iconic filming. Location but this place
looks pretty rough in nineteen seventy, Two and according to
this Roadside america, post apparently now it's a Registered New
mexico historical, site not because of The gargoyles, movie but

(01:20:28):
because of some archaeological digs in the, area real, ones
Not gargoyle.

Speaker 3 (01:20:33):
Related so at the, motel they check in with the,
Proprietor Missus. Parks she answers the door with a tall
glass of. Liquor this is that, character and she takes
them to the, room and she keeps trying to Get
Cornell wild to like come back and party with. Her
and she also won't stop telling stories of grizzly car
accidents she has.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
Witnessed, yes hers is a curious seduction. Style it does
not quite work in this, film but apparently it has worked,
Before so who can?

Speaker 3 (01:21:02):
Falter AND i think this is sort of the end
Of act. One they go to, bed so, HERE i
guess we can zoom out and talk in some broader.
Strokes the next morning they sort of report what, happened
or at least a partial version of what happened to the.
Police mercer holds back the full gargoyle, ENCOUNTER i think

(01:21:23):
because he hasn't gotten the gargoyle skull carbon dated.

Speaker 1 (01:21:27):
Yet mercer is very relaxed in all of, This, Like,
okay there was a violent encounter with creatures and somebody,
died And will's out, There willy's out there in the desert.
Dead let's go and get a good night's. Sleep let's
make sure we get the car turned into to a.
Mechanic we'll report this to the police in the.

Speaker 3 (01:21:46):
Morning, yeah and not tell them, everything Because i'm a
little fuzzy on exactly why they couldn't. Yet he's, LIKE
i haven't fully done all the research, yet so.

Speaker 1 (01:21:55):
Yeah and we do continue to see this as a character,
trait like at, Times diana accuses him of being unfeeling
and he's, like, well this is like the maximum of
what we can do right, Now like we can come
back later with more info and get more, done but right,
now this is all we can. Do and SO i,
MEAN i WILL i would acknowledge that to a certain. Degree,

(01:22:16):
YEAH i guess.

Speaker 3 (01:22:17):
So, anyway so the police go to investigate the scene
of the, fire and they find a gang of young
motorcycle enthusiasts loitering around the crime. Scene their leader seems
to Be Scott glenn played By Scott glenn playing this
young guy Named James rieger who's a very very good
looking bad boy on. Motorcycle the bullies do not implicate

(01:22:40):
the bikers in the, crime but the cops arrest them,
anyway and the bullies do not reveal what they do.
Know would that would make it clear that the bikers
were not were not to blame.

Speaker 1 (01:22:51):
And this should become as no surprise to anyone who's
watched any amount of biker in the. Media even though
these guys are not really a motorcycle clubter Just is
pointed out they're just dirt. Bikers but, still bikers and
cops do not like each other and our natural, enemies
and of course the cops are gonna arrest the bikers
for anything they can get them.

Speaker 3 (01:23:12):
On, yeah the cops are just, like, yeah you know
how these dirt bikers. Are they're they probably did. Something
so later that, night the bullies are back in their
motel room at The Cactus motel and they are attacked
by several. Gargoyles we get some great scenes of breakaway
doors and walls and the motel attack they just kind
of crumble like they're made out OF i don't, know gram.

Speaker 1 (01:23:34):
Crackers, yeah and it's not a siege sequence, either because
the gargoyles are just right in, There like there's one
in the. BATHROOM i don't know what that gargoyle is
doing in the. Bathroom When mercer opens the, door it's
like it's like the first stage of this attack is
to rifle through his pills or.

Speaker 3 (01:23:50):
Something, yeah they just kool aid man bust through the walls,
yeah but they're, there in fact to retrieve the gargoyle,
skull which is. Interesting that means it seems these creatures
must be intelligent and they are trying to cover up
evidence of their. Existence but during this attempt to retrieve the,
skull one of the gargoyles gets hit by a truck and,

(01:24:12):
killed And bully takes the body back with, them and
so and here we get to see like the different
kinds of. Gargoyles there are like some gargoyles that are
more lizard, men others that have more bird like, features
kind of with.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
Beaks, yeah, YEAH i think this is of course fitting
with the varied designs of like actual architectural. Gargoyles but
the main ones we see attacking here are, wingless which you,
know we can interpret as being due to the fact
that wings are extra work and maybe you don't have
time to make wings for, everybody but also maybe these
are worker gargoyles or. Juveniles but, yeah there's a great

(01:24:49):
deal of varied morphology, here and if you want to
see some like better, imagery behind the scenes imagery of
the different masks and. Costumes The Stan Winston school has
a great article About stan and his cohorts work on
gargoyles with lots of cool pictures and masks and. Suits

(01:25:10):
so look that up at Stan Winston school dot.

Speaker 3 (01:25:13):
Com so there's a scene Where diana goes to the
police station to get them to Release Scott glenn and his.
Bros because you, know they didn't do the, murder but
the police will not release them. Yet and, again the
bullies could tell the whole truth now because they've got
a dead gargoyle body has, proof they've got it in their,
Car BUT i Think bully doesn't for some, reason still

(01:25:35):
can't reveal. It he like doesn't want to get scooped
on the discovery or. Something.

Speaker 1 (01:25:39):
Yeah, yeah it's like he it's not that he doesn't
want to help, people but he's very calculated in how
he wants to roll everything. Out Look out for number, One,
yeah look out for number. One maybe make sure you
have a good press release prepared, beforehand even if the
bikers are just doing in the jail.

Speaker 3 (01:25:56):
Cell BUT i like this is one of those movie
jails you can walk into the police station and then
just walk up to the cells and like talk to
the people in.

Speaker 1 (01:26:05):
Them, yeah it's Basically Desert.

Speaker 3 (01:26:07):
Mayberry, Yeah So diana walks up to the bikers and
kind of kind of semi flirts With rieger, here but
talks to him about, gargoyles and there's a good exchange
Where Scott glenn, says so you and your old, man
you're not afraid of them gar, things, Huh and she,
says gargoyles are a scientific fact and they're no more
dangerous than a high school dropout on a. Motorcycle.

Speaker 1 (01:26:31):
YEAH i don't, Know. DIANA i feel like the gar
things by this point in the film have proven themselves
to be rather shockingly, effective you, know tearing up the
car and all like there is violent is a supernatural motorcycle,
gang BUT i think they obviously trump just the motorcycle
drop out squad that she's referring.

Speaker 3 (01:26:49):
To, Yeah gargoyle's on wheels. Anyway so there's another gargoyle
attack on the. Bullies this time the gargoyles take the
body with, Them they take the professor's, books and they Kidnapped,
diana taking her back to the gargoyle home base within
a local cave, system which Is Carlsbad canyon Or Canyons,

(01:27:09):
caverns isn't.

Speaker 1 (01:27:10):
It, Yeah, YEAH i look this. Up the cave scenes
were filmed In Carlsbad Caverns National. PARK i don't THINK
i have actually been. There been To New mexico. Once
have you been To? Carlsbad?

Speaker 3 (01:27:20):
No, NO i have been To New mexico but didn't
make it to the. Caves.

Speaker 1 (01:27:24):
Yeah i've been to some other cave systems in this
part of the, country but not. These but, yeah this
is one of a number of pictures that were filmed, there,
also including nineteen Fifties King Solomon's, minds fifty One's Unknown,
world Fifty, Eighths The, spider fifty Nine's journey to The
center of The, earth seventy Three's John Livingston, segull and
seventy four Is The Bat, people which we already. REFERENCED

(01:27:44):
i Believe Stan winston worked on that one as.

Speaker 3 (01:27:46):
Well so from here the movie finally starts to arrive
at its core, proposition which is a gargoyle hunt featuring,
yes of, course, cops but also. Bikers So Cornell, WILDE
i forget how he somehow convinced the cops to release
the bikers from, jail and they team up to help
find the gargoyles layer and Save Diana this is after

(01:28:07):
the second attack, there SO i guess the cops have
been convinced. Somehow, Also Missus, parks the alcoholic lady at the,
motel and the local mechanic drive away in a pickup
truck to get help from out of. Town but later
the posse finds the truck, wrecked smeared with, blood and
they come Across Missus parks's body hanging upside down from

(01:28:29):
a telephone, pole which is a very creepy shot in,
concept but a little bit less so in. Execution AND
i think she should have still had the rum glass
in her.

Speaker 1 (01:28:40):
HAND i think. SO i think maybe downing the last
of it would have been like the last act that
she she committed before.

Speaker 3 (01:28:47):
Passing, anyways the posse hunts the gargoyle. Cave we get
some action scenes of cops and bikers fighting gargoyle warriors
and the scrub. Desert the gargoyles can, fly but they
are not, invincible so it's a you, know it's a tough,
fight but a somewhat fair. Fight, meanwhile as all this
is going, on we also follow what happens To diana

(01:29:08):
in the gargoyle. Cave so while none of The gargoyles
that we see earlier in the Movie Ever. Speak diana
is taken to the leader of The, gargoyles who has
quite a lot to, say and this Is Bernie casey
in The, suit but again dubbed by Vic paren the
voice from The Outer. Limits so he explains that the

(01:29:29):
history that we learned at the, beginning The gargoyles keep
popping up in human history every six hundred years or
so to try to destroy humankind and take over the,
world but the humans keep beating them each, time after
which they go into another six hundred year. Incubation but
this time it will be. Different The gargoyles will really
they're going to defeat us this, time and the gargoyle

(01:29:51):
leader Makes diana read aloud to him from Doctor bowley's
books because he's, LIKE i find your voice pleasing. Now
the head gargo well is clearly interested In. Diana he
is attracted to, her though for some, reason they pause
to make it explicit that the gargoyles do not need
humans in order to. Reproduce in, fact they've got huge

(01:30:13):
chambers full of more gargoyle eggs already, incubating and in
WHAT i thought was kind of a strange and interesting.
Choice it is The King gargoyle's attraction To diana that
ultimately helps the humans win at the end of the,
movie because it seems that The Queen gargoyle sort of
the his gargoyle wife becomes jealous of this and causes

(01:30:37):
and this causes The Queen gargoyle to help lead Doctor
bowley to the rescue.

Speaker 1 (01:30:42):
Later, yeah that seems to be how it plays. Out
maybe it's the soap opera writing credentials of the writing,
team but that seems to be how it plays, out
which isn't you? KNOW i, MEAN i. Guess on one, Hand,
yeah monster kidnapping the girl is just a standard monster movie,
truth and they felt like they needed to employ, that
and so maybe they're adding just a little soap opernuance

(01:31:04):
to all of. That but it does seem like The
gargoyle mission here has gone rather off. Track like you
only get to do this every six hundred, years. Guys
you need to pull it together beyond target because during
those six hundred years you have fallen behind in technology a. Lot,
yes you, know whether you realize it or, not things

(01:31:24):
are going to be different this. Time and don't count
too much on next, time it could be. Harder maybe
it'll be, easier but the six hundred years is a long.

Speaker 3 (01:31:31):
Time that's. TRUE i, MEAN i feel like the jealousy
is a weird thing because it makes the gargoyles seem more,
human which also makes the ending less. Palatable where the ending,
is it's very ripley in aliens Like Scott glenn And
Cornell wilde go into the cave and they're, like we
got to destroy this, whole all the, eggs you, know

(01:31:52):
burn them all. Up but like the jealousy thing has
made it seem, like, oh these are not just like,
weapons not just like destruction. Machines they kind of are
people in a, sense like they might want to destroy,
us but they are they feel kind of.

Speaker 1 (01:32:07):
Human, now, yeah we see like hatchling gargoyles as, well so, like,
yeah you end up feeling for them quite a. Bit
and you, know, granted the gargoyles have discussed wiping out all,
humans and you, know we obviously can't get on board
with that, constat but the humans also seem to to

(01:32:27):
be very much in favor of wiping out the, gargoyle
so you, know we're in a bit of a. Standoff.

Speaker 3 (01:32:31):
Here, well, yeah but the show of sort of betrayal
of The King gargoyle by The Queen gargoyle suggests there
could be differences of opinion within the gargoyle, People, like
what if instead we just depose The King gargoyle and
empower some one of the gargoyles that wants to live
in harmony with.

Speaker 1 (01:32:50):
Humans it seems very, possible, RIGHT i, mean gargoyles probably
have a lot to teach. Us we have stuff to
teach them they're interested, in so why.

Speaker 3 (01:32:58):
Not, anyway so we get a five confrontation where Doctor
bully has led to the gargoyle leader who wants to
Carry diana away with. Him as they're. ESCAPING i think
maybe some MORE i don't, know maybe some more people are.
Arriving oh oh, WAIT i almost forgot to Mention Scott
glenn blows himself up in order to destroy the eggs
in one. Room Scott glenn is already that dedicated to

(01:33:20):
the destruction of gargoyle.

Speaker 1 (01:33:21):
Kind you, know he may have been no good biker,
kid but he just needed a cause to get behind
and here he.

Speaker 3 (01:33:29):
Is so, anyway AS i, said the gargoyle main gargoyle
wants to fly away With, diana but Doctor bowley comes
up with a solution to this. Problem he bashes the
Gargoyle queen's wing with a rock so she can no longer.
Fly so if The Gargoyle king wants to escape with,
her he has to carry, her meaning he cannot also Carry,

(01:33:52):
diana so he has to Leave diana. Behind and he
has a. Line he, says how clever you. Are your
choice has allowed you and your daughter to. Survey it
also allows me and my kind to, survive perhaps at
the price of your supremacy On. Earth one, day and
he flies, away and that's the ending we'd like, see
and they show him. Flying we get a kind of

(01:34:13):
slow mo flyaway.

Speaker 1 (01:34:15):
Shot looks pretty good. TOO i have to, say all things,
considered you, know, OKAY tv movie, budget it could have
looked a lot flappier and on the, wire BUT i
thought it looked pretty. Good but, yeah our heroes end
up sort of taking the high, road but mostly out
of self interest and after like getting in a cheap
shot against the very female gargoyle who put her own

(01:34:37):
species ascension aside to help them. Out, so you, know mixed.

Speaker 3 (01:34:43):
Feelings it's unclear to me exactly how conscious the film
is of the moral ambiguity of its, heroes especially Of
Cornell wilde's. Character BUT i don't. KNOW i don't know
if this was an attempt to create a kind of
morally gray protagonist who uses a lot of dirty tricks
and often acts in self, interest or if that or

(01:35:05):
if that was just kind of like going over their.
Heads there's not a lot of acknowledgment of.

Speaker 1 (01:35:09):
It, yeah it's hard to tell if this is something
that was deluded in the execution of the film and
maybe more prevalent in the, script or is this something
an energy that kind of emerges out of the filmmaking.
Process but, yeah you can imagine if someone were to remake,
this like imagine The Rob zombie remake Of. Garda Rob

(01:35:32):
zombie would get in, there he would explore these.

Speaker 3 (01:35:34):
Themes Sid haig as Doctor Mercer, Bowley Sherry Moon zombie
As Diana.

Speaker 1 (01:35:41):
Bowley, yeah, yeah OR i think now this should Be
zombie's next, film like get her in that she can
play The Queen. Gargoyle, okay, Yeah and who else is
he fond of casting these? Days, Oh Richard. Brake Richard
brake is The King. Gargoyle that's somebody that zombie cast
loot not as tall as A Bernie, casey but you,

(01:36:02):
know good monster makeup.

Speaker 3 (01:36:03):
Guy oh, okay well, anyway That's.

Speaker 1 (01:36:06):
Gargoyles, yeah it's a fun. ONE i, mean you can
really see. WHY i read subsequently was reading some other
like little reviews on, letterboxed and you know a lot
of people were saying things about how when they were,
kids this movie resonated with, them you, know, Yeah and
you can totally get that with these these fun monster,
suits and also the kind of subversive nature that it

(01:36:27):
might feel like it has if you're a kid just
watching stuff on, Television like what Is? Gargoyles? Like it's,
again it's it's weirder than it probably has any right to.

Speaker 3 (01:36:36):
Be CAN i offer another thing that is interesting about
television as a venue for horror movies compared to the.
CINEMA i don't know this for sure about historical practices
of movie, theaters BUT i bet it was hard for
little kids to get into a movie theater to see
like AN r rated horror, movie or maybe NOT r
rated at the, time but a mature horror movie in

(01:36:58):
the theaters in the. Seventies but you, know who controls
what kids are watching ON tv in the. Home parents
maybe they're not even in the, room so the kid
turns this. On that might be a different kind of
reception thing about the medium as, Well like it's easier
for kids to tune into a horror movie that they
are not technically mature enough for when it's shown ON.

Speaker 1 (01:37:19):
Tv, yeah, yeah because especially at the, time it's like it's, implied,
well if it's on network, television they should be able
to handle. It.

Speaker 3 (01:37:26):
Yeah, Yeah so that kind of changes the way the
horror works as, well because it's like a different audience
and different. Setting, anyway the made FOR tv nous it
really is strong. Here it is part of what this
film is for good and for.

Speaker 1 (01:37:40):
Ill all, Right, well we'd love to hear from everyone out.
There do you HAVE i know a number of you
do have thoughts About, Gargoyles so write in and tell
us what your connection is to this. Movie what do
you think about some of the themes we've discussed. Here,
likewise any Other gargoyle related media out. There were you
a big fan of the Animated gargoyle series and have
thought that write. In we'd love to hear from. You

(01:38:03):
Do joe AND i need to watch the twenty fourteen
FILM I, frankenstein in Which frankenstein's monster battles. Gargoyles maybe
so make a case for it or anything else we
may be missing out. There it's all fair.

Speaker 3 (01:38:16):
Game huge thanks as always to our excellent audio PRODUCER Jj.
Posway if you would like to get in touch with
us with feedback on this episode or any, other to
suggest a topic for the, future or just to say,
hello you can email us at contact at stuff To
blow Your mind dot.

Speaker 2 (01:38:31):
Com stuff To Blow Your mind is production Of. iHeartRadio
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