Behind the Scenes Minis: Alaska and Contraceptives

Tracy talks about a "Molly of Denali" episode that references Elizabeth Peratrovich. She then shares her own experience with IUD insertion.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production
of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy P. Wilson
and I'm Holly Fry. This week we talked about Elizabeth Paratrovitch.
Sure did. It's maybe a little silly that Elizabeth Paratrovitch

(00:24):
Day caused me to do an episode weeks later. No,
but you know, things happen well, especially the way our
schedule's been lately, Like I was out for a week
and then I'm a little weird sick and juggled our
schedule around. Like, No, it does not silly at all. Yeah,
an episode on Elizabeth Paratrovich gave me the opportunity to

(00:44):
watch the more Molly of Danali, because there is a
Molly of Danali episode called Molly and Elizabeth, in which Molly, well, first,
there is an incident. I don't want to tell the
whole plot of the episode, but there's an incident, and
then afterward, Molly is talking to a relative who is

(01:07):
talking about like how if she had been there, she
would have given those guys who were pretty thoughtless and
offensive stern talking to. And then Molly finds out that
this relative, who I think is maybe her aunt. Her aunt,
I think, if I'm remembering correctly, saw Elizabeth Paratrovitch when
she was a very young girl. And it's very sweet,

(01:27):
as so many episodes of Molly of Danali are. And
I'm like, should I just watch Molly of Danali to
find episode topics for the podcast? Maybe just for pure enjoyment.
I mean, yeah, it's a very sweet show. I find
I watch a lot of kids shows just for pure enjoyment. Yeah,
have I ever told you about you know what, I'm

(01:48):
going to sidetrack us on kids shows for a moment. Okay,
for the comedy of it, you know, pingu Right. When
I was working for many many years as an aga
musician specialist at a university library, one of my work
study assistants one year was this absolutely beautiful Danish young

(02:08):
woman who I loved and she was very funny, but
like when I we had first met her and I
was like, ooh, I watched this kids show and she
literally looked at me and went, Holly is for children?
And I was like, I know, like tiny, tiny children.
Like she was basically like, you watch entertainment for two

(02:29):
year olds? And I'm like, girls, yes, that's what I'm saying,
I understand, yeah, yeah, there are some children shows that
are really great. Listen, give me that Bluey. When I
need a good cry, give me it. So when I
started working on this episode, I was expecting just a
very straightforward biography of Elizabeth Paratrovitch. And this is about

(02:53):
the anti discrimination law in Alaska, which predated the Civil
Rights Acts that had so many any similar provisions regarding
all of the public accommodations that people should be able
to access regardless of their race, like really similar twenty
years ish before. I did not fully appreciate how the

(03:17):
history of Alaska is happening during the same time periods
as we've talked about in the Contiguous United States, a
lot of indigenous history we have talked about in the
Contiguous United States, and there are so many things that
we've talked about in other episodes about indigenous people from

(03:38):
like the Lower forty eight that just as are very
different trajectory from Alaska because of the Alaska Purchase Treaty
and the fact that there weren't any treaties with any
of the indigenous are native peoples there, of which, as
we said, there are at least eleven very different cultures

(04:00):
within the Alaska Native population. I didn't realize that I
was going to need basically a primer on sort of
federal Native policy in Alaska. Yeah, and I still felt
like we had to skip over big parts of it
just to try to give a sense of what all
was happening and what was going on, even though we've

(04:21):
talked about the same time periods and in some cases
the same laws in other parts of the United States.
I just like I did not have an understanding of
how much differently some of that was going on in Alaska.
Was not prepared for it. It was not prepared to
have to research, it, was not prepared to have to
write it. Was not expecting that when I got into it.
And then some of the things that like, we're obviously

(04:42):
a law can't fix discrimination, right, it just doesn't like
repair everything. It did mean though, that if you know,
someone was barred from an accommodation, there was something that
could potentially be done about it, right in terms of
like making sure the law was followed. But it also
meant that there was a lot of other stuff happening

(05:04):
in Alaska that was specific to Alaska that the law
did not have anything to do with it had to
do with the rights of the Native peoples of Alaska.
So it's just like just there's this the whole world
of that that we did not really get into at all.
That would be again just like a whole like a
whole series of podcasts. Yeah. I mean it speaks to

(05:29):
like this this aspect of US history where one like,
the US obviously is a very vast place, right, but
two like because Alaska exists at a remove from the
contiguous forty eight oh yeah, and Hawaii. Similarly, I feel
like for a lot of us growing up, like we

(05:50):
don't get the context of where they are when we're
talking about other big social and political movements throughout our country.
It's like they're just not even included in conversation. Yeah. Yeah.
I also found a lot of details in writing about
what was happening legally and in relation to like creating

(06:14):
a government for Alaska and that kind of stuff. Stuff
for just details would be super different. It took me
a long time to figure out exactly what I think
was going on with the reapportionment of the Alaska Territorial legislature.
Oh yeah, because I found multiple different ways that was
phrased that meant different things, multiple years cited. Is when

(06:35):
it happens in between like eighteen forty two and eighteen
forty four, multiple ways of describing exactly what steps were.
I think I arrived hopefully at the correct answer, but
like it just I was like, why why are so
many different sources saying this completely differently? And then I
found there was one source in particular that made it

(06:55):
sound as though when the United States purchased Alaska firm Russia,
all of the Native peoples of Alaska, with one exception,
were instantly citizens. And I was like, that that's not true.
You're a source I think would know what you're talking about,
but I don't think that's right, and it doesn't align

(07:16):
with what any of these other sources are saying right,
And I was like, what happened? Why? Yeah? Why? Why?
Why is this going on? I'm glad this is not
the first source that I read, because then I would
have been abundantly confused. I had a similar thing happened
recently when I was researching where and it's less it's

(07:38):
less of a big thing, but it was like a
biographer of someone who is recognized as like one of
the pre eminent biographers of that person included just like
a really wrong detail in like, oh, yeah, their family makeup,
And I was like, yeah, yeah, I always sad is

(07:59):
this just a typo that an editor didn't care? Like what,
how does this happen? What happened here? Yeah? Yeah. I
also liked even though it was a lot to try
to explain in the scope of one episode, I liked
being able to touch on how the advocacy of the
Alaska Native Brotherhood shifted over more than a century, yeah,

(08:21):
which parallels Native and indigenous advocacy in other parts of
the United States over the last hundred years. Like what
people have been focused on, what people have thought was
the right thing to do, what people have thought of
its most important, Like all of that changes over time,
and this was one episode where it was possible to
kind of look reference some of those changes. Yeah, which

(08:43):
I think is important, right, because it is easy. I know,
we all want to like compartmentalize things and define them
a little bit, just as our way of parsing the world.
But hm, it can be easy to say this organization
equals this, and it's like, right, at what point on
the timeline, like they shifted the change? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

(09:05):
there are so many other examples of similar, similar evolutions
with similar with other groups, uh our own political parties, right,
similar flippy dippy doo. Yeah, I'm gonna call it flippy
dob doo forever. Great, all right, it's like anytime someone
reverses their position, you'll be like flippy dippy do flippy

(09:25):
do be doo. We talked a bit about the history
of the IUD this week we tuned in. I said
I would talk about my own experience with ID insertions.
So I guess we'll start with that. Great. So I

(09:49):
had an ID for slightly longer than probably I should have.
I wanted to get a non hormonal method of contraception
for two reasons. One was hormonal contraceptive I have ever
been on caused me some unwonted side effect that made
it not worth it. And my mom also was diagnosed

(10:10):
with breast cancer in her sixties and she had one
of the cancers that as treated with estrogen blockers. I
was uncomfortable doing hormonal things after that experience, that's fair.
And my the gyn that I went to, who only
did gynecology she did not also do obstetrics, was like,
I don't think that it's actually a risk, But I

(10:33):
understand your concerns and there's a totally viable alternative for you,
which was a copper ied So this was in twenty twelve, okay,
and here's what we did for pain management. At the time.
Some doctors used my supposed doll as like an off
label thing to try to soften the service, Oh, make

(10:57):
it easier, and so she prescribed that that is one
of the medications that's used in a medical abortion. So
I was concerned about whether I was going to be
able to get my prescription filled in Georgia or whether
I might get hassled at the pharmacy. It was, it
was fine. I also took whatever over the counter medicine before.

(11:21):
This doctor preferred to do insertions while someone is menstruating
because of changes that happened to the cervix during that time,
and also like an extra added likelihood that the patient
is not pregnant. That did not work out for me
for timing reasons. That can be tricky for some people

(11:41):
to tell. Yeah, so my experience with that was not
too bad. It was very fast. It was less uncomfortable
than the time that I had a temporary crown replaced
with the permanent crown without any pain management, because that
dentist felt like the pain of injecting you with novacane

(12:06):
or whatever was worse than the pain of just swapping
out the crown, and then you have to deal with
your mouth being numb. And I was like, okay, I
see that reasoning, and I did sign a piece of
paper and you go for it anyway. That would do
it anyway. So I would not say it was a
comfortable experience, but it was not inordinately painful. I drove

(12:28):
myself to the appointment. I drove myself to work directly afterward.
I did leave work early because I was starting to
have some cramping, and that was mostly a I want
to get home in case this gets worse. I did
not want to get into a situation where I felt
like I was in enough pain that driving would have
been dangerous. Yeah. I also one time had to have

(12:50):
a transvaginal ultrasound to make sure it was still where
it was supposed to be, and that was way more
invasive than the insertion was. Oh yeah, they don't tell
you that stuff. No. So years pasted, I moved to Massachusetts,
away from Georgia, where I had been when I had
it inserted, and I had my regular doctor was of

(13:12):
the opinion that, based on how old I was when
I had it inserted, I did not need to remove
it until menopause. I would basically be good. That doctor
moved away and I got a new doctor, and when
I got my physical her team was not of the
same opinion and suggested that I have a consult with
an obgyn, which I did, and this obgyn was like, you,

(13:36):
you can do it, but I would actually recommend removing
it because of the like the risk that as the
device ages and it becomes less flexible, there is like
a slightly increased risk of during removal, like part of
it breaking off, and then it becomes a bigger thing.
So then we went to Morocco and then gosh, just

(13:59):
after Yeah, So after coming back from Morocco, I went
and got that done. We had a whole conversation about
what to do after removing it because I am not
yet menopausal, and ultimately I elected not to get another
ID because that felt like a lot, and to use
other methods. But when she said, here is what your

(14:26):
options would be if you got another IED, she presented
me unsolicited on my part with an assortment of pain
management options and the smallest one that they don't recommend
my supposed dol Off label for this anymore. Like that's
it seems like it does not actually help. So like

(14:46):
option number one was over the counter pain relief at
home before you come in. Option number two prescription oral
pain relief before you come in. Right, next step top
lydocane applied to the cervix. Next step paraservical block, which

(15:07):
is injected, So like that comes with the discomfort of
having injections done around your cervix. Next sedative that would
be like an anti anxiety medication that would require me
to have somebody else come to drive me to and
from the appointment. And then last option would be to

(15:27):
be put under the level of sedation. That would be
similar for like when you have a colonoscopy and you're
not conscious, but that's what you're reading time I did
not wake up during my colonoscopy. I'm for jokes. So
if if someone wanted that option, then it had to
be done at a different office where there was a

(15:48):
nurse anesthetist on staff. And like this doctor, this office
does not have a nurse anesthetist. So this was like
a buffet of pain management options that were just based
on my experience, Like, that's just how she works with
all of her patients. All of her patients, we have
the discussion of all of these pains. So then after

(16:10):
that appointment, I told all of my friends about this
obgyn and all of the pain management that she had
just like offered me because I had heard for the
last however decade plus that they just don't do pain
management for IUD insertion. And it wasn't until I started, well,
I don't remember which specific Internet conversation, there have been

(16:31):
many made me go, I wish this was not how
we were talking about this, because I think it's it's
hurting people's health instead of helping, like empowering them to
have But I was like, oh, this is actually what
the doctor did with me was pretty much in line
with the current guidelines. And people who were just saying
just take some ADVILB before you come in, like, that's
not with the current guidelines. Also, when I went in

(16:52):
to have it removed, I did have Patrick drive me
just in case anything went wrong, and I felt like
I needed to have him there to drive me home.
And I was in and out of the doctor before
he was done parking the car in the parking deck
connected to the medical facility. So anyway, that is my

(17:14):
my IUD insertion story and removal story. Yeah, never an
option for me. Uh huh. I do have pain fear,
although I know they're always running my bigger thing. When
people say medical anxiety, I don't think they understand what's
going on with Holly Fry okaycause my medical anxiety is

(17:35):
not oh, this procedure is going to be uncomfortable, it's
that four weeks later when I'm home, I'm going to
be like, is it slowly killing me from the inside?
Like I have that flavor of medical anxiety and it's
not an option. Yeah, yeah, that is not something that
an is a concern with. But my medical anxiety does

(17:56):
not care about your logic or medical scientist acknowledge. It
does its own thing. It's got its own flavor of
flamboyant behavior that cannot contain. Yeah, so that was never
an option. Now, it was the best option for me,
and I was overall really happy with it for the

(18:17):
more than a decade. There is also, and I won't
actually say what it is, there is a callback here
that you have accidentally created. Do you remember when recently
I was talking about how growing up, I thought everybody
read Jim Carroll. There's a gross IUD story in one
of his books. Oh, that probably also did not help me,

(18:40):
but I think that's Jim Carroll. Hopefully I'm not misattributing,
but yeah, yeah, well, and we are both of the
age to have been around during the big ad campaign. Oh,
all of the shields removement. Yeah, that thing does not
look like it would be comfortable to insert, even though
it was flexible. I know what the device and the
inserter looked like. I'm like, this is the big it's

(19:04):
Most of the iud's today are basically like little T shapes.
They go in in a straight line and then the
arms come out while it's in there, And like the
Dalkon shield was like it looked like a crap was
like not not something narrow or a round, And I
have heard that it was like really painful to have

(19:26):
that inserted. But it also just looks scary and if
you put it on a six o'clock news background of
like fiery death behind it, which is how I remember
the Dalkon shield publicity about go get this removed. If
you have one, it leaves an impression. Oh yeah, are

(19:48):
you sure that's part of what informs like my medical
anxiety about these things, right? Yes, Even though I can
read all of the up to the minute yeah science
on it and understand that intellectually, my lizard brain goes yeah. No.
The doctor asked if I wanted to see it after
it was removed, and I was like, yeah, actually, and

(20:08):
then she showed it to me and I was like,
that is smaller than I thought it was. Could make
a piece of jewelry out of it. It's not very
big unless you're pregnant. Yeah. Yeah, I did have a

(20:29):
bit of a chuckle when we started this episode. Yeah.
I think you and I define body horror much differently, okay,
because I'm like, none of this even comes close, Like
this is yeah, listen, I got Lars von Trier in
my brain. Nothing touches that. Are you kidding me? And

(20:49):
I like a little body horror Lars Sanria can sometimes
go too far for me. But yeah, it just I
was like, oh, well, different levels. Yeah, it was a
specifically the like the intrauterine are the intra uterine pessaries
that had coiled, springy stems and legs that popped out,

(21:11):
like imagining those just I felt that sympathetic. Yeah, my body,
I think too. Their different specific things that will trigger
different people's right. None of that bothers me. I literally
got really excited once when we were in Disney World.
I don't know if you've ever been on the little
train that goes out to conservation station in Animal Kingdom

(21:35):
where they have a lot of animals and they have
a medical facility. We happen to get lucky, depending on
your point of view, to be there when they were like, hey,
if your squeamish, don't go over there, we're removing a
tumor from a goat in the surgery, and I was
like running, I wanted to see that. I was very
excited about it, but yet I will the thought of
like tearing muscle is very upsetting to me. So sure

(21:57):
it just depends different people have different stuff. That made
me chuckle a little bit. I was like, I felt
really chagrined about my ignorance about how what the cervix
is actually structured, Like, oh, I don't think you should
that's not unusual. Well, I just sort of thought. I
thought I knew how my own body worked in that way,

(22:19):
having had an IUD and having you know, as instructed
make sure that the strings were still there, and also
at one point having looked at it through a speculum
with a mirror, I was like, I know exactly what
that looks like. And then I was like, oh, no,
it does not look like I thought it looked. Here's
here's what I hope will quell your embarrassment or chagrin. Okay,

(22:42):
could you draw me an accurate picture of your spleen
right now? Now? See, definitely, we don't know what's going
on in there. It's not speaking of anatomy. I learned
way too much about the physiology of camels and family
expression trying to figure out is this Stone story even possible? Plausible? Yeah,

(23:06):
it is more plausible than I thought before I learned
more things about camel reproduction. It's still like it. I've
really trying to find other references to that. I only
found it in connection to Id's and in one case
an article about pessories specifically also mentioned it. Also, we

(23:31):
did not we've mentioned connections between the birth control movement
and the eugenics movement. In the episode. We did not
go into a lot of detail about it, in part
because we've talked about it a number of times before,
and then in part because, like referencing it felt like
what needed to happen at that moment, not necessarily diving
into it. IDEs, though, specifically have some nuances that other

(23:56):
contraceptives don't necessarily, and one is that some of the
population explosion discussions of the nineteen sixties framed IUDs as
a really good contraceptive method because of an underlying assumption

(24:16):
that the people in poorer parts of the world where
the population was growing too fast. It framed it like,
and the people there are clearly not smart enough to
use other forms of contraception. There was like an insulting
medical racism aspect. Today. At the same time, though, I

(24:37):
read a couple of things that made it seem like
the eugenics movement was really promoting IUDs, and like the
biggest wave of the eugenics movement in the United States
was falling out at favor. When actual practical IUDs were developed,
they were more likely to be permanently sterilizing people, not

(25:01):
doing anything that was temporary or reversible. Yes, I think
those are all of my notes about you deed discussion.
I do really want anybody listening to feel empowered to
at least talk to their doctor and if their doctor
is like, oh, you'll be fine, to take some advil. No,

(25:23):
but the current guidance is to offer more options than
that and to have an informed discussion about it. Yeah. Yeah.
I also when it came to that whole thing, was like,
I never want kids. Can we make this a permanent party?
Like right? So that was anasy one And even then,

(25:44):
I will say I chickened out twice. Oh I didn't
know that at the last minute. And then I had
have another procedure done that I was going to have
to be put under for, and I was like, let's
knock them both out at the same time, do it.
Yeah yeah, Which here is a funny story I'll tell you,
and it is about our mutual friend Lily, who we
both love very much. To have that procedure done, I

(26:10):
had to have like, you know, your your abdomen is
filled with air so that there's oh yeah there, they
can easily get in there with all of the laparoscopic goodness,
and as a consequence, in a hilarity, you look pregnant afterwards, okay,
because it takes a while for that air to dissipate,

(26:30):
and bless her, Lily came over that night and like
brought me yummy things and hung out with me for
a while. Now like Brian was with me too, but
she was like, oh, what can I bring? And she
was like, this is amazing. Can we take pictures and
seven the people and tell them you've actually been saying?
Thing was like, it's like, no, I'm not going to
be responsible for twelve heart attacks today. That's not going

(26:53):
to happen. Yeah, it was very funny. It's very Yeah,
I love it. I love it. Somewhere there are pictures
of me looking very pregnant. Yeah, probably on a roll
of film. That's how long ago that was? Wow? Twenty
How old am I? This is it twenty five years ago?
Spelling time? Yeah? Yeah? Well, anyway, whatever's coming up for

(27:19):
you on your weekend? Boy? Do? I hope it's great.
We've had a number of weather updates in our behind
the scenes episode as I have lived through a particularly cold,
snowy New England winter. It is seventy degrees today and
it has made me so happy. We're barely keeping Tracy
in the chair today. Yeah, whatever is your equivalent of

(27:43):
seventy degrees after ell long, snowy winter. I hope that
is how great your weekend is. We will have something
brand new on Monday, and tomorrow we'll be back with
a Saturday classic. Stuff you Missed in History Class is

(28:04):
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