January 2, 2026 • 24 mins
Holly and Tracy talk about the pros and cons of self-help writing and whether Ben Franklin would like bullet journaling. They then talk about a past trip they took to Walt Disney World.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production
of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Holly Frye and
I'm Tracy V.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Wilson.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
We talked about self help books this week.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
We did Listen. I love a little self help book.
You want to.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Teach me how to make a great chart to do something?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I'm in it.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, I like Ben Franklins method. I'm going to adapt
it for my own use in twenty twenty six. Okay,
my virtues will not be the same. Yeah, I have
similar conflicted feelings to what you talked about in the introduction,
because there have been times in my life where I
was one hundred percent manufacturing my own misery. Uh, and
(00:49):
my own decisions and my own choices were at the
root of that. And then there have been other times
in my life where what I needed was medication. Yeah,
and then a third level of times in my life
where maybe I didn't need medication, but maybe the circumstances
that were happening were so big and consuming that like
(01:11):
no amount of positivity can really counteract all of that, right,
And so there for sure been times that like various
self help advice really could help me, But also times
where if somebody had tried to tell me any of that,
not only would it have not helped, it would have.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Just made me feel worse. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I mean I feel like, you know, the people in
my life were not understanding that what I was dealing
with was not you need to accentuate the positive. Yeah,
sometimes that feels so infantalizing and just completely you know,
like ignorant and dismissive. And it's cruel to people sometimes
(01:52):
to be like, oh, this is a fixable problem, blah
blah blah. Yeah, like sometimes it might be a fixable problem,
but people are not always ready to receive that information. Yeah,
and it can be very hurtful. Yeah, it's tricky.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So it's tricky.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
We've all known someone where we're like, if they just
did this differently, everything would work better. But you don't
know what's going on in their brain chemistry sometimes either.
That's why I wanted to mention at the end that
there are people there are some studies that suggest, right
for people that are negative thinkers, there is a term.
It's called, i think, defensive negativism. It's like you are
(02:25):
so inclined to see how things can go terribly wrong
that you actually end up better prepared for any possible outcome,
whereas if you're like Sunshine and Daisies and like it's
going to work out and then it goes horrifically sideways,
you just fall apart because you were not even considering
(02:46):
what could happen. Yeah, and there are other that's like one,
you know, sort of psychological profile that obviates the fact
that this stuff does not is not always going to
be effective for everybody. But yeah, it's such an interesting,
interesting space. Yeah, what you just said reminded me a
little bit of some research from like the beginning of
(03:07):
the COVID nineteen pandemic, where people who had issues with anxiety,
me included, had an initial relief in that anxiety because
it was sort of like our minds went, oh, the
disaster I've been waiting for is here. And my mom
had kind of like my mom also a very anxious person,
(03:30):
and then when she was I'm laughing because she laughed
about it too, when she was diagnosed with an incurable
progressive disease, it was like her mind went, oh, okay,
we're here. Now. I've been preparing for this my whole life.
I was waiting for the bad thing to happen, and
now we have the bad thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's
(03:53):
I mean, right, there are other iterations of those kinds
of things where there were people I'm I mean, I know,
for me, the early part of the pandemic was actually
like a weirdly good time. I was obviously not happy
about people becoming ill and all of the death that
we were dealing with, but the stillness of being home
(04:15):
was something I had not experienced for a long time,
and it was very good for my brain. Yeah, and
I think like there, I mean, in every other possible
you know, scenario of what works in terms of positive
and negative thinking is also true. I will tell you this. Okay,
it's a short book, but reading I didn't read it
(04:36):
all the way through. But reading Seneca's on the Shortness
of Life, I mean I had read parts of it
in various courses in high school and college, but I
hadn't revisited it in like thirty years, and now I'm like,
I need to reread this whole thing. It's actually very
reassuring and nice.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
His wisdom is very much like live in the moment. Yeah,
don't keep putting stuff on, just do what you want.
To do with your life because there's never a perfect time.
Now is the time?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And I'm like, I love you, Seneca.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, that reminds me of a movie I watched very
recently which has come See Me in the Good Light.
It is about spoken word poet Andrea Gibson and their
partner when Andrew was diagnosed with a varying cancer and
they wrote a poem that begins along the lines of
(05:30):
feeling like they were about at the beginning of a nightmare,
but it really being a story of how much easier
happiness is to find when you realize you don't have
much time left to find it, right, that's a paraphrase.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I'm not Andrea.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Gibson in any way, but it had a lot in
common with what we read of Seneca. Yeah, yeah, I
really really liked revisiting that, and I want to sit
down with it over the end of the year here
and just kind of read you the whole because, like
I said, it's not that long. Yeah, very easy. The
Charles Manson thing is fascinating to me. That's wild that
(06:05):
he's like, Yeah, I read that book and it really
changed my life. And then I let a cult and
that made me able to lead a cult and convince people.
And there have been interviews with members from his cult,
people that are still in prison, who have been like, yeah,
that's exactly what he did. Yeah, he used all those techniques. Yeah,
now I understand what was happening, which is just wild
(06:27):
to me because it's such an extreme It's not like
I want this guy to do my paperwork for me.
It's like such an extreme behavior that he's convincing people
that they had the idea to do that. That is
to me like mind blowing.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Here's my fun part of the behind the scenes. I'm
still on Ben Franklin. Listen Ben Franklin. I don't believe
in holding anybody up as on a pedestal, but I
really like the way he talks about how to do this,
and I really like the whole ideology of like you
can work on one thing at a time and revisit
(07:09):
it and know that you're gonna have to cycle through it,
and it's a progress you know, it's you're progressing. You're
not necessarily ever going to get to this like apex
state of achievement. But here is where I'm reading that,
and there's another section that I didn't go into that.
I was like, Ben Franklin, what's wrong with you? And
here's what it is. He wasn't. I'm literally I don't
even know how to discribe. It's so silly and it's
(07:30):
so unimportant. But it really was just like, what again,
my brother, I have the solution for you. Why didn't
you do this this way? He was erasing his black
marks and starting over with the same page instead of
making another page. And then in his book he talks
about how difficult that made it and how it wore
through the page, and then eventually he realized he could
(07:54):
use like a sturdier substance that he could make the
permanent lines with, and then something like a an oil
crayon that could be easily marked off. And I'm like,
did you not just think to turn the page and
make another chart? Maybe maybe thought I would waste paper.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Maybe, but I don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I feel like if you were turning the page, if
you had a paper or a you know, a journal
or something that was for this purpose, you would be
able to see your progress over time exactly. Yeah, that
one blew my mind.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Maybe thought it was wasteful.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I'm gonna that's another use for the time machine. I'm
gonna go back and be like, yo, yeah, Ben Franklin,
do you want me to just make all the charts
for you and you can just turning the pages? Because
I don't mind. I have a template. I'm an Aaron
Conduring girly. I have figured out all the things I
need too. Yeah, if you thought a different one on
every page was wasteful, he would really hate how many
(08:48):
journals I've bought and written three or four pages in
and then never picked up again. I do think Ben
Franklin would love bullet journaling.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I think he would love it, Yeah, because he did
like to keep a little He loved a little chart.
He'd love to make a little diagram of how his
day was gonna go. I was about to say, I
wonder what Samuel Peeps would think of, but I don't
think Samuel Peeps would be a bullet journaler. Samuel Peeps,
I'm gonna make a callback to a much earlier episode.
(09:20):
Samuel Peeps would be one of those dudes who buys
an almanac and keeps his little journal entry in each
day of the almanac.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, he would do that.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, Yeah, because his his entries were just too usually
brief and sometimes just very almost utilitarian, and how they
were focused on things.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, I don't think he would really be into bullet journaling.
Ben Franklin would. Yeah, then Franklin loves a bullet journal.
That's the shirt.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I do have a million self help books on how
to clean ma darn house. Yeah, ask me how clean
my house is. I don't want to no amount, no
amount clean. I mean part of it is just I'm
a maximalist. I have too much stuff I have. Recently,
since we got back from Morocco, I have really been
like something flipped in my head while we were traveling
(10:06):
and I was like, I need to get rid of
some of my stuff. Yeah, which is very hard for
me because I'm one of those people that imbuse stuff
with personality in my head, like I was that child
that would like I had a little chart to rotate
my stuffed animals so no one felt left out where
it would be like, Okay, now the seven of you
(10:28):
can be on the bed, but I don't have room
for eight. But I promise you next ones in line
are going to move onto the bed next week. Like
in my head and animate objects have feelings and thoughts.
I know that's very cuckoo. So it's hard for me
to get rid of things because I don't want them
to feel abandoned or unloved, even shoes, even stupid things.
(10:52):
I mean, I'm trying to think of how small and
unimportant a thing has to be before I don't give
it a personality in my head. Yeah, I'm like a
binder clip.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
And I'm just sitting here thinking about Marie Condo and
how much her whole philosophy is based in like Shinto animism,
and how that seems to have parallels with your giving
objects feelings. Yeah, yeah, I always have. Yeah, I don't
always always. It's like I have an obnoxious number of
(11:23):
stuffed animals and they all have names, personality traits.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
I know it's very silly, but it is what it is.
I don't want to always be a maximalist. I understand.
I agree that your goods will eventually cause you problems.
I have too many things, but I love them.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah. Here we are. I'm working on it. I'm working
on it.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
We're recording this shortly before Christmas. Yeah, and I've had
some every year.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
My dad is like, what's your Christmas list, and this
year there was just there was nothing on it.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
There were no things on it.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
He was really trying to get me to tell him
something that and I was like, what I want for
Christmas is less. I want less things. Can the Christmas
present be something that is in my house that I
don't use anymore, that I don't even remember that I own.
It's just gone.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Long ago, thankfully, we don't really do Christmas presents. Brian
and I will sometimes get each other very silly, small things,
but not big presents. A long time ago in my family,
I was like, I would like to give you all
the gift of don't worry about it. Yeah, I don't
need more stuff. None of us are going to pick
the things that the other people really wanted anyway, We're
(12:44):
all too busy to make a list. We're giving each
other the gift of freedom. Don't even think about it.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, it's fine. I love this.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, And I mean most of the time, like my
close friends, if I'm going to give them something, it's
usually something I found throughout the year that seems like
exactly the right thing for them. And sometimes I will
not wait until Christmas. But also a lot of times,
it's like a consumable, like a yeah yea delicious food
that they love, or like their favorite tea, or an
alcohol that they're a fan of like because we don't
none of us need more stuff. As much as I'm
(13:16):
a stuphoholic, I know I've reached a one in, one
out policy as a bare minimum right now, and then
we'll see how long that lasts. Because I'm real bad
about it. I have the fugue state in the morning
when I'm not awake yet and I'm drinking my coffee
on the couch, and I order stuff without even knowing it.
That's how I have a new sewing machine that I
(13:36):
don't even remember ordering, but I have the receipt that
I ordered it. Clearly I ordered it, but it is pink,
so I mean I needed that clearly. I have yet
to unbox it because I don't have space. We talked
(13:57):
on New Year's Eve about dinner party that happened in
an iguanadon which I chose just because it seemed so silly.
This is exactly my kind of dinner party. Yeah, I
I was looking around for something that would be, you know,
contextually relevant to New Year's New Year's Eve. We've had
various things that we have put out when an episode
(14:20):
has come out on either New Year's Eve or New
Year's Day that has been somehow related in some way.
And I also was like, I would like to just
do something kind of silly, the best kine, the best kind. Yeah,
because heavy things are happening in the world. I've done
(14:40):
a number of heavier episodes of over the course of
the year. I was like, let's just wind up the
year with something silly and delightful, benign and kooky and
mostly benign except for Richard Owen being weirdly mean and
hetty and a.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Jerk to people.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I so I had I had outlined the basic stuff
about the park and the construction of the dinosaurs and
all of that kind of stuff, and I was like,
I think we need just a little bit in here
about Benjamin Waterhouse Hawkins, Like I don't really have like
(15:23):
who is this person? Yeah, And I can't remember which
source I wound up at first. It might have been
the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
It might have been Britannica. I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I had gone to some basic source that I would
turn to to get basic biographical information about a person. Yeah,
and I was just sort of skimming through blah blah blah,
born in London, da, DA, bigamous marriage. I was like,
(15:55):
should I stop what I'm doing and do this whole
episode on this guy? And I was like, no, you
took too many notes about the rest of it, and
plus you're too busy with the dinosaur.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah. Yes, we're going to do the dinosaur thing.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I had previously flagged the models that he had made
for dinosaurs that were supposed to go in Central Park.
I have an old article on that that I had
flagged as like maybe something to do an episode on,
and that never really came to fruition. But of course
it will be part of things if there ever is
an episode just on Waterhouse Hawkins, yeah, and his marriage
(16:34):
to two women at the same time. This episode, you
may not have realized, might have a slight downer vibe
to a very specific group of listeners. Okay, to Disney
fans who have to acknowledge that we will no longer
have dinosaur in Animal Kingdom Park after early February as
(16:57):
part of a park refresh which has an iguana in it.
Uh huh, They're not gonna make it.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
They're not gonna make it. We're not ever gonna make
it on that ride again. It's fine.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I'm okay because you know I've said before I love change.
I'm kind of addicted to it, so I'm fine with it.
But a lot of people get really upset when things
in the park change. Yeah, but we'll always have the memories.
We'll always have Felicia a ors Allen. I'm trying to
remember because I've been to Animal Kingdom a couple of
(17:30):
times as a grown up, once with you.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, surely we rode that. Surely we did. Yeah, Like,
I just can't bring it to mind what I am remembering.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Oh, there's a remote possibility we skipped it because we
had already done Star Tours, which did not did not
agree with you.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I had an unhappy time on Star Tours. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
It is also on a gimbal rig, but one that
is a moving car. So I vaguely recall us having
a conversation of I don't think you're gonna like this ride, yeah,
or at least your body won't, even if your mind
wants to. I was so excited about Star Tours and
the way that ride works is for folks who don't know.
(18:17):
You are seated on a platform that's on a gimble rig,
it moves around. You're looking at a three D movie basically,
and that technology has gotten really pretty good, but it's
not really possible to have it be perfect between what
(18:37):
you're experiencing physically on the gimble rig and what your
eyes are seeing on the projection. And I instantly was like,
oh no, And I spent the entirety of the ride
with my whole being focused on not being ill.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, and so I have never gone on any other
ride that works that way. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, for Dinosaur, you're in a car, but the car
has its own like, yeah, similar movement as you're moving
through the environment. And so I think I think we
did have a discussion about it in situ where I
was like, I'm a little worried about this ride for you, Yeah,
and I described it and you went nope below nonks
(19:24):
probably went and got a cocktail somewhere.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Things that I definitely remember from Animal Kingdom are that
big tree of life. Yes, and there is a picture
that I think either you or Brian took of me
standing in front of it, just making an exuberant expression.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
It looks like it's growing out of my head. It's
pretty great.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Then I probably took it because Brian would line it
up better than that. It's just my guess.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
And then I also remember this is the FII Ride
of course, yes, and delicious food, oh more delicious food
around every corner. There's also I don't remember exactly where
this is an Animal Kingdom, but you know, as you're
walking around places that are decorated to look like a
place that you were walking through. There's one place that
(20:17):
we that had a sign that said something to the
effect of must have papers to pass. That's probably over
by Expedition Everest. That sounds maybe right, and like that's
not the exact wording on it at all, But I
remember seeing it as an adult and being like, if
I saw that sign as a six year old, I
(20:38):
would be so focused on whether we were going to
get in trouble for not having whatever passes it is
that they are requiring. Anyway, those are random memories of
Animal Kingdom Park, which is only tangentially related to eating
dinner and an iguanadon. I mean, if Disney were smart,
(20:58):
that would be great. Keep using Fridays to tell Disney
what I want.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Them to do.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
But eight inside one of the rides, but it goes down.
Probably that would be only for very fancy pants people there. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Some of the articles about this mentioned a museum in
the United States where a dinner was held. It was
not clear to me whether it was like in the
rib cage of a giant fossil of some extinct animal,
or whether it was like under the articulated skeleton, and
whether it had been an inspiration to these folks when they.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Put this together.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
And I was like that all just seems kind of
speculative to me, especially since this other dinner was something
like twenty years before the Iguanadon dinner, So I just
didn't get into it. Also, I on purpose arranged the
outline so that you had to read the menu.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
You mean, jerk.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I mean, my French is decent, but some of that
is like Frenglish.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yeah, some of it feels like half made up French.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Ye, like the you know, there would be like a
French word in it, but then an English word yeah,
about a very specific English way of cooking something. And
I was like, well, yeah, shabootles. Yeah, just wing it
is what I say, Just swing it, swing it it's
all food. I was bounded that I couldn't find more
(22:20):
specifics about how the meal was prepared, because there was
just this one source that said that Hawkins's cooked most
of it, and then the bill of fare crediting Charles
higginbottom of the the Annerly Tavern, and then European Mansion
House Street. The only references I found to European Mansion
(22:42):
House Street were an archaeological find in that area that
found like drink wear.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
That was embossed with that. Huh.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
And I did not go down that rabbit hole for
two very long, but I was like, I wonder, what's
up with this? What sounds like it must be a
restaurant of some sort. So anyway, anyway, we have started
a new year now as of when this Friday behind
the Scenes is coming out, So I hope everyone had
(23:15):
a great New Year's Eve, whatever was going on, whatever
is coming up for you this coming weekend. I hope
it's also great. I know for a lot of folks
that are in kind of office jobs type situations, this
is sort of the weekend before we're returning.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Back to work post holidays.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
So if you're able to take a final breath before
diving back into the workplace. If you're in a role
where you've been working this whole time, I hope there
has been a break for you in there somewhere, And
if not, I hope there is one coming up soon.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
You know.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
We just wish the best for everybody. We hope your
year is off to a good start. We will be
back with a Saturday Classic tomorrow and something brand new
on Monday. Stuff you Missed in History Class is a
production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
(24:17):
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production
of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Holly Frye and
I'm Tracy V.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Wilson.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
We talked about self help books this week.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
We did Listen. I love a little self help book.
You want to.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Teach me how to make a great chart to do something?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I'm in it.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, I like Ben Franklins method. I'm going to adapt
it for my own use in twenty twenty six. Okay,
my virtues will not be the same. Yeah, I have
similar conflicted feelings to what you talked about in the introduction,
because there have been times in my life where I
was one hundred percent manufacturing my own misery. Uh, and
(00:49):
my own decisions and my own choices were at the
root of that. And then there have been other times
in my life where what I needed was medication. Yeah,
and then a third level of times in my life
where maybe I didn't need medication, but maybe the circumstances
that were happening were so big and consuming that like
(01:11):
no amount of positivity can really counteract all of that, right,
And so there for sure been times that like various
self help advice really could help me, But also times
where if somebody had tried to tell me any of that,
not only would it have not helped, it would have.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Just made me feel worse. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
I mean I feel like, you know, the people in
my life were not understanding that what I was dealing
with was not you need to accentuate the positive. Yeah,
sometimes that feels so infantalizing and just completely you know,
like ignorant and dismissive. And it's cruel to people sometimes
(01:52):
to be like, oh, this is a fixable problem, blah
blah blah. Yeah, like sometimes it might be a fixable problem,
but people are not always ready to receive that information. Yeah,
and it can be very hurtful. Yeah, it's tricky.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So it's tricky.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
We've all known someone where we're like, if they just
did this differently, everything would work better. But you don't
know what's going on in their brain chemistry sometimes either.
That's why I wanted to mention at the end that
there are people there are some studies that suggest, right
for people that are negative thinkers, there is a term.
It's called, i think, defensive negativism. It's like you are
(02:25):
so inclined to see how things can go terribly wrong
that you actually end up better prepared for any possible outcome,
whereas if you're like Sunshine and Daisies and like it's
going to work out and then it goes horrifically sideways,
you just fall apart because you were not even considering
(02:46):
what could happen. Yeah, and there are other that's like one,
you know, sort of psychological profile that obviates the fact
that this stuff does not is not always going to
be effective for everybody. But yeah, it's such an interesting,
interesting space. Yeah, what you just said reminded me a
little bit of some research from like the beginning of
(03:07):
the COVID nineteen pandemic, where people who had issues with anxiety,
me included, had an initial relief in that anxiety because
it was sort of like our minds went, oh, the
disaster I've been waiting for is here. And my mom
had kind of like my mom also a very anxious person,
(03:30):
and then when she was I'm laughing because she laughed
about it too, when she was diagnosed with an incurable
progressive disease, it was like her mind went, oh, okay,
we're here. Now. I've been preparing for this my whole life.
I was waiting for the bad thing to happen, and
now we have the bad thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's
(03:53):
I mean, right, there are other iterations of those kinds
of things where there were people I'm I mean, I know,
for me, the early part of the pandemic was actually
like a weirdly good time. I was obviously not happy
about people becoming ill and all of the death that
we were dealing with, but the stillness of being home
(04:15):
was something I had not experienced for a long time,
and it was very good for my brain. Yeah, and
I think like there, I mean, in every other possible
you know, scenario of what works in terms of positive
and negative thinking is also true. I will tell you this. Okay,
it's a short book, but reading I didn't read it
(04:36):
all the way through. But reading Seneca's on the Shortness
of Life, I mean I had read parts of it
in various courses in high school and college, but I
hadn't revisited it in like thirty years, and now I'm like,
I need to reread this whole thing. It's actually very
reassuring and nice.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
His wisdom is very much like live in the moment. Yeah,
don't keep putting stuff on, just do what you want.
To do with your life because there's never a perfect time.
Now is the time?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And I'm like, I love you, Seneca.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, that reminds me of a movie I watched very
recently which has come See Me in the Good Light.
It is about spoken word poet Andrea Gibson and their
partner when Andrew was diagnosed with a varying cancer and
they wrote a poem that begins along the lines of
(05:30):
feeling like they were about at the beginning of a nightmare,
but it really being a story of how much easier
happiness is to find when you realize you don't have
much time left to find it, right, that's a paraphrase.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I'm not Andrea.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Gibson in any way, but it had a lot in
common with what we read of Seneca. Yeah, yeah, I
really really liked revisiting that, and I want to sit
down with it over the end of the year here
and just kind of read you the whole because, like
I said, it's not that long. Yeah, very easy. The
Charles Manson thing is fascinating to me. That's wild that
(06:05):
he's like, Yeah, I read that book and it really
changed my life. And then I let a cult and
that made me able to lead a cult and convince people.
And there have been interviews with members from his cult,
people that are still in prison, who have been like, yeah,
that's exactly what he did. Yeah, he used all those techniques. Yeah,
now I understand what was happening, which is just wild
(06:27):
to me because it's such an extreme It's not like
I want this guy to do my paperwork for me.
It's like such an extreme behavior that he's convincing people
that they had the idea to do that. That is
to me like mind blowing.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Here's my fun part of the behind the scenes. I'm
still on Ben Franklin. Listen Ben Franklin. I don't believe
in holding anybody up as on a pedestal, but I
really like the way he talks about how to do this,
and I really like the whole ideology of like you
can work on one thing at a time and revisit
(07:09):
it and know that you're gonna have to cycle through it,
and it's a progress you know, it's you're progressing. You're
not necessarily ever going to get to this like apex
state of achievement. But here is where I'm reading that,
and there's another section that I didn't go into that.
I was like, Ben Franklin, what's wrong with you? And
here's what it is. He wasn't. I'm literally I don't
even know how to discribe. It's so silly and it's
(07:30):
so unimportant. But it really was just like, what again,
my brother, I have the solution for you. Why didn't
you do this this way? He was erasing his black
marks and starting over with the same page instead of
making another page. And then in his book he talks
about how difficult that made it and how it wore
through the page, and then eventually he realized he could
(07:54):
use like a sturdier substance that he could make the
permanent lines with, and then something like a an oil
crayon that could be easily marked off. And I'm like,
did you not just think to turn the page and
make another chart? Maybe maybe thought I would waste paper.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Maybe, but I don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
I feel like if you were turning the page, if
you had a paper or a you know, a journal
or something that was for this purpose, you would be
able to see your progress over time exactly. Yeah, that
one blew my mind.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Maybe thought it was wasteful.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I'm gonna that's another use for the time machine. I'm
gonna go back and be like, yo, yeah, Ben Franklin,
do you want me to just make all the charts
for you and you can just turning the pages? Because
I don't mind. I have a template. I'm an Aaron
Conduring girly. I have figured out all the things I
need too. Yeah, if you thought a different one on
every page was wasteful, he would really hate how many
(08:48):
journals I've bought and written three or four pages in
and then never picked up again. I do think Ben
Franklin would love bullet journaling.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I think he would love it, Yeah, because he did
like to keep a little He loved a little chart.
He'd love to make a little diagram of how his
day was gonna go. I was about to say, I
wonder what Samuel Peeps would think of, but I don't
think Samuel Peeps would be a bullet journaler. Samuel Peeps,
I'm gonna make a callback to a much earlier episode.
(09:20):
Samuel Peeps would be one of those dudes who buys
an almanac and keeps his little journal entry in each
day of the almanac.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Yeah, he would do that.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah, Yeah, because his his entries were just too usually
brief and sometimes just very almost utilitarian, and how they
were focused on things.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, I don't think he would really be into bullet journaling.
Ben Franklin would. Yeah, then Franklin loves a bullet journal.
That's the shirt.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I do have a million self help books on how
to clean ma darn house. Yeah, ask me how clean
my house is. I don't want to no amount, no
amount clean. I mean part of it is just I'm
a maximalist. I have too much stuff I have. Recently,
since we got back from Morocco, I have really been
like something flipped in my head while we were traveling
(10:06):
and I was like, I need to get rid of
some of my stuff. Yeah, which is very hard for
me because I'm one of those people that imbuse stuff
with personality in my head, like I was that child
that would like I had a little chart to rotate
my stuffed animals so no one felt left out where
it would be like, Okay, now the seven of you
(10:28):
can be on the bed, but I don't have room
for eight. But I promise you next ones in line
are going to move onto the bed next week. Like
in my head and animate objects have feelings and thoughts.
I know that's very cuckoo. So it's hard for me
to get rid of things because I don't want them
to feel abandoned or unloved, even shoes, even stupid things.
(10:52):
I mean, I'm trying to think of how small and
unimportant a thing has to be before I don't give
it a personality in my head. Yeah, I'm like a
binder clip.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
And I'm just sitting here thinking about Marie Condo and
how much her whole philosophy is based in like Shinto animism,
and how that seems to have parallels with your giving
objects feelings. Yeah, yeah, I always have. Yeah, I don't
always always. It's like I have an obnoxious number of
(11:23):
stuffed animals and they all have names, personality traits.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
I know it's very silly, but it is what it is.
I don't want to always be a maximalist. I understand.
I agree that your goods will eventually cause you problems.
I have too many things, but I love them.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Yeah. Here we are. I'm working on it. I'm working
on it.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
We're recording this shortly before Christmas. Yeah, and I've had
some every year.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
You know.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
My dad is like, what's your Christmas list, and this
year there was just there was nothing on it.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
There were no things on it.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
He was really trying to get me to tell him
something that and I was like, what I want for
Christmas is less. I want less things. Can the Christmas
present be something that is in my house that I
don't use anymore, that I don't even remember that I own.
It's just gone.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Long ago, thankfully, we don't really do Christmas presents. Brian
and I will sometimes get each other very silly, small things,
but not big presents. A long time ago in my family,
I was like, I would like to give you all
the gift of don't worry about it. Yeah, I don't
need more stuff. None of us are going to pick
the things that the other people really wanted anyway, We're
(12:44):
all too busy to make a list. We're giving each
other the gift of freedom. Don't even think about it.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, it's fine. I love this.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, And I mean most of the time, like my
close friends, if I'm going to give them something, it's
usually something I found throughout the year that seems like
exactly the right thing for them. And sometimes I will
not wait until Christmas. But also a lot of times,
it's like a consumable, like a yeah yea delicious food
that they love, or like their favorite tea, or an
alcohol that they're a fan of like because we don't
none of us need more stuff. As much as I'm
(13:16):
a stuphoholic, I know I've reached a one in, one
out policy as a bare minimum right now, and then
we'll see how long that lasts. Because I'm real bad
about it. I have the fugue state in the morning
when I'm not awake yet and I'm drinking my coffee
on the couch, and I order stuff without even knowing it.
That's how I have a new sewing machine that I
(13:36):
don't even remember ordering, but I have the receipt that
I ordered it. Clearly I ordered it, but it is pink,
so I mean I needed that clearly. I have yet
to unbox it because I don't have space. We talked
(13:57):
on New Year's Eve about dinner party that happened in
an iguanadon which I chose just because it seemed so silly.
This is exactly my kind of dinner party. Yeah, I
I was looking around for something that would be, you know,
contextually relevant to New Year's New Year's Eve. We've had
various things that we have put out when an episode
(14:20):
has come out on either New Year's Eve or New
Year's Day that has been somehow related in some way.
And I also was like, I would like to just
do something kind of silly, the best kine, the best kind. Yeah,
because heavy things are happening in the world. I've done
(14:40):
a number of heavier episodes of over the course of
the year. I was like, let's just wind up the
year with something silly and delightful, benign and kooky and
mostly benign except for Richard Owen being weirdly mean and
hetty and a.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Jerk to people.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I so I had I had outlined the basic stuff
about the park and the construction of the dinosaurs and
all of that kind of stuff, and I was like,
I think we need just a little bit in here
about Benjamin Waterhouse Hawkins, Like I don't really have like
(15:23):
who is this person? Yeah, And I can't remember which
source I wound up at first. It might have been
the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
It might have been Britannica. I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I had gone to some basic source that I would
turn to to get basic biographical information about a person. Yeah,
and I was just sort of skimming through blah blah blah,
born in London, da, DA, bigamous marriage. I was like,
(15:55):
should I stop what I'm doing and do this whole
episode on this guy? And I was like, no, you
took too many notes about the rest of it, and
plus you're too busy with the dinosaur.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah. Yes, we're going to do the dinosaur thing.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I had previously flagged the models that he had made
for dinosaurs that were supposed to go in Central Park.
I have an old article on that that I had
flagged as like maybe something to do an episode on,
and that never really came to fruition. But of course
it will be part of things if there ever is
an episode just on Waterhouse Hawkins, yeah, and his marriage
(16:34):
to two women at the same time. This episode, you
may not have realized, might have a slight downer vibe
to a very specific group of listeners. Okay, to Disney
fans who have to acknowledge that we will no longer
have dinosaur in Animal Kingdom Park after early February as
(16:57):
part of a park refresh which has an iguana in it.
Uh huh, They're not gonna make it.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
They're not gonna make it. We're not ever gonna make
it on that ride again. It's fine.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I'm okay because you know I've said before I love change.
I'm kind of addicted to it, so I'm fine with it.
But a lot of people get really upset when things
in the park change. Yeah, but we'll always have the memories.
We'll always have Felicia a ors Allen. I'm trying to
remember because I've been to Animal Kingdom a couple of
(17:30):
times as a grown up, once with you.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, surely we rode that. Surely we did. Yeah, Like,
I just can't bring it to mind what I am remembering.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Oh, there's a remote possibility we skipped it because we
had already done Star Tours, which did not did not
agree with you.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I had an unhappy time on Star Tours. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
It is also on a gimbal rig, but one that
is a moving car. So I vaguely recall us having
a conversation of I don't think you're gonna like this ride, yeah,
or at least your body won't, even if your mind
wants to. I was so excited about Star Tours and
the way that ride works is for folks who don't know.
(18:17):
You are seated on a platform that's on a gimble rig,
it moves around. You're looking at a three D movie basically,
and that technology has gotten really pretty good, but it's
not really possible to have it be perfect between what
(18:37):
you're experiencing physically on the gimble rig and what your
eyes are seeing on the projection. And I instantly was like,
oh no, And I spent the entirety of the ride
with my whole being focused on not being ill.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, and so I have never gone on any other
ride that works that way. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, for Dinosaur, you're in a car, but the car
has its own like, yeah, similar movement as you're moving
through the environment. And so I think I think we
did have a discussion about it in situ where I
was like, I'm a little worried about this ride for you, Yeah,
and I described it and you went nope below nonks
(19:24):
probably went and got a cocktail somewhere.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Things that I definitely remember from Animal Kingdom are that
big tree of life. Yes, and there is a picture
that I think either you or Brian took of me
standing in front of it, just making an exuberant expression.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
It looks like it's growing out of my head. It's
pretty great.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Then I probably took it because Brian would line it
up better than that. It's just my guess.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
And then I also remember this is the FII Ride
of course, yes, and delicious food, oh more delicious food
around every corner. There's also I don't remember exactly where
this is an Animal Kingdom, but you know, as you're
walking around places that are decorated to look like a
place that you were walking through. There's one place that
(20:17):
we that had a sign that said something to the
effect of must have papers to pass. That's probably over
by Expedition Everest. That sounds maybe right, and like that's
not the exact wording on it at all, But I
remember seeing it as an adult and being like, if
I saw that sign as a six year old, I
(20:38):
would be so focused on whether we were going to
get in trouble for not having whatever passes it is
that they are requiring. Anyway, those are random memories of
Animal Kingdom Park, which is only tangentially related to eating
dinner and an iguanadon. I mean, if Disney were smart,
(20:58):
that would be great. Keep using Fridays to tell Disney
what I want.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Them to do.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
But eight inside one of the rides, but it goes down.
Probably that would be only for very fancy pants people there. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Some of the articles about this mentioned a museum in
the United States where a dinner was held. It was
not clear to me whether it was like in the
rib cage of a giant fossil of some extinct animal,
or whether it was like under the articulated skeleton, and
whether it had been an inspiration to these folks when they.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Put this together.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
And I was like that all just seems kind of
speculative to me, especially since this other dinner was something
like twenty years before the Iguanadon dinner, So I just
didn't get into it. Also, I on purpose arranged the
outline so that you had to read the menu.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
You mean, jerk.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I mean, my French is decent, but some of that
is like Frenglish.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yeah, some of it feels like half made up French.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Ye, like the you know, there would be like a
French word in it, but then an English word yeah,
about a very specific English way of cooking something. And
I was like, well, yeah, shabootles. Yeah, just wing it
is what I say, Just swing it, swing it it's
all food. I was bounded that I couldn't find more
(22:20):
specifics about how the meal was prepared, because there was
just this one source that said that Hawkins's cooked most
of it, and then the bill of fare crediting Charles
higginbottom of the the Annerly Tavern, and then European Mansion
House Street. The only references I found to European Mansion
(22:42):
House Street were an archaeological find in that area that
found like drink wear.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
That was embossed with that. Huh.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
And I did not go down that rabbit hole for
two very long, but I was like, I wonder, what's
up with this? What sounds like it must be a
restaurant of some sort. So anyway, anyway, we have started
a new year now as of when this Friday behind
the Scenes is coming out, So I hope everyone had
(23:15):
a great New Year's Eve, whatever was going on, whatever
is coming up for you this coming weekend. I hope
it's also great. I know for a lot of folks
that are in kind of office jobs type situations, this
is sort of the weekend before we're returning.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Back to work post holidays.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
So if you're able to take a final breath before
diving back into the workplace. If you're in a role
where you've been working this whole time, I hope there
has been a break for you in there somewhere, And
if not, I hope there is one coming up soon.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
You know.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
We just wish the best for everybody. We hope your
year is off to a good start. We will be
back with a Saturday Classic tomorrow and something brand new
on Monday. Stuff you Missed in History Class is a
production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the
(24:17):
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
Stuff You Missed in History Class News
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