Ready or Not (2019)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bechdelcast.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
The questions asked if movies have women and them, are
all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they
have individualism? The patriarchy Zephyn bast start changing with the
Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Hello Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
A listener, whoa we wi we woo, we are here.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
This is uh Jamie and Caitlin, sorry and panicked.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
It's okay, It's okay, and we are here unlocking an
episode of our Patreon aka Matreon, and we should say
Matreon formerly known as Patreon, quite frankly for your listening
pleasure this week to observe the release of Ready or

(00:50):
Not too, a movie that neither of us have seen
and neither of us can vouch for or argue against. True,
but we know that tomorrow Weaving is in it. And
I do like the internal logic of you thought she
was ready or not? What if two? I like there
like one woman? What about two? And honestly it's very

(01:13):
base logic, But I'm listening what if two women? Many
movies are not asking this question.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
Yeah, ready or not? Two women?

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Ready or not? Here's two women? I think that's maybe
supposed to be the horror element Ready or Not two
women in the movie. Wow yeah, so yeah, really impressive.
I mean and honestly, in the in the wave of
feminist backlash we're in right now, some people do need
the warning that there's going to be two women. Yeah,
hope you're ready for two women and don't blond white women.

(01:45):
So yes, yes, but but yeah, we're unlocking our episode
on Ready or Not one to observe Ready or Not
two a movie. By the way, I will be seeing it.
I'm actually pretty excited. Same. I hope it's good. I
love samaraw Weaving. I feel like she's very underrated.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
Yeah she's she's good. I hope the movie's fun.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Or if I'm correct, Samara Waving she's Australian, right.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
She is Australian. Yes, famously.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
That was definitely respectful what I just did, Samara Waving,
she would love that I did that. Tony, all kinds
of women are from there. Jacob BELORDI shakeup BELORDI, he's
for the girls. I think I don't know who. Well,
I just I just said that I have no idea

(02:32):
he's worked with a woman that we know he's met
a woman.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
Sure has he's met at least one woman and that
makes him a feminist.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Anyway, really, cast, by the way, it so is, Hope
this is your first episode. I think we say this
at the beginning of every episode at this point, Hope
this isn't your first episode, but statistically it may very well. Maybe. Yeah, listen,
this is the Bechdel Test. Nope, cast, Nope, this is

(03:03):
the Bechtel Cast. If this is your first episode, welcome
Tomorrow Weaving, And this is our podcast where we take
a look at your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens,
using the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point for discussion.
And we do not define the parameters of the Bechdel
Test in our Matreon episodes. So, Caitlin, what the hell

(03:26):
is it?

Speaker 3 (03:26):
It is a media metric created by friend of the
pod Alison Bechdel, first appearing in her comic collection Dicks
to Watch out For in the eighties, and its origins,
we're more focused on, Hey, are there any queer women
in this movie that I'm watching?

Speaker 1 (03:44):
And if there are queer women, are they actual characters?

Speaker 3 (03:49):
In any case, the test has become more kind of
mainstreamified into a media metric that has many versions the
one that we use is do two characters of a
marginalized gender have names? Do they speak to each other?
And is that conversation about something other than a man?
And ideally it's narratively meaningful and not just nothing dialogue.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Right, which is why we modified our version of the test.
And again that's not a criticism of our dear friend
Alison Bechdell. She wrote it as a joke, but for
our purposes, that's to avoid I think people who are
defensive of their favorite movies and wanted to pass the
Backdel test, and they're like, well, there was a waitress
and Meryl Streep said I'll have the chicken or whatever,

(04:39):
so that I would watch that movie honestly, and then
if they make out it does pass the Bechdel test, it.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Really really passes the Bechdel test.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, I hope that happens in the devil War's product too.
What if that.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
Happens devil Ware's Product two? Here, I come, What if
the subtitle to every sequel was here? I come?

Speaker 1 (04:58):
If I think if the Devilwaar's Product two is bad,
there's going to be some sort of revolt. I mean
there should there should be. There's so many reasons for
there to be a revolt. But I do think that
if the Devil is product too is bad, people are
gonna be marching outside Stanley Tucci's house. Like I just,

(05:21):
you know, not that he should be held accountable for it,
but he will be, and you know, I just I
really hope it's good. Anyways. Yeah, so we are today
unlocking an episode from our Matreon from only two years ago.
We don't do this very frequently because the Matreon is
a sacred space. So if you're not a subscriber but

(05:44):
a listener of the show, or you're just getting into
the show and you want more episodes, our Matreon is
a slightly looser version of our main fiat episodes. We
don't generally have guests on there. It's Caitlin and I
either choosing or very often having our subscribers choose a
specific theme, and by a specific you have no idea

(06:07):
how specific it can get. This was a theme from
twenty twenty four called Wedding Webruary, in which our Matreon
subscribers voted they wanted to hear us talk about ready
or not and of course Madam Web which we.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
No, no, no, no, sorry, wait Madam Web was just
coming out around the same time, so we did talk
of it, we did cover it later on, but Wedding
Webruary was Ready or Not and I think twenty seven dresses.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
Oh my gosh, what theme did Madam Web fall under?

Speaker 3 (06:40):
That was action movies directed by women, which does not
have a Webruary.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Okay, egg on my fucking face, we're thinking we but
that's how nonsensical the themes are. Madam Web was not
featured in Wedding Webruary. It's explain it. But this is
an episode from there. If you enjoy it, if you
enjoy the slightly looser structure, head over to the Matreon.

(07:07):
It's five dollars a month and it gets you access
to not just participate in our wonderful community over there
that we've cultivated over the years, it also gets you
access to over two hundred bonus episodes, including the Madam
Web episode. So I know we had to pay all
the Madam Web episode. We've got to pay our bills.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
So true. Yes, So it's the best way to support
the show. So we'd love to have you over there.
But in the meantime, you can enjoy this unlocked episode
on Ready or Not one oh, there's only one woman.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
In this one. Yeah, and the world wasn't ready.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
The world was not ready. It was only it was
twenty nineteen, so we only could have one woman at
that time. But yes, in the meantime, enjoy this unlocked
episode the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
Duddu do dude record scratch, Wait a second, something's not
quite right at this wedding. It's Satan's Satan's at the wedding.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
Well, Satan should attend more weddings.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Honestly, I prefer Satan showing up to a wedding than
you know, God, if you believe in that, if you
believe in either of those things. Given the binary like, yeah,
let's go to Satan's wedding.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
You've heard of holy matrimony, Well what about unholy matrimony?
And that's when the devil is there.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
And that's when the devil is there in his little chair.
Oh my god. I love at the end of this
movie when the devil shows up in his little chair,
he's like hey, he is like, good job, giry, this
is such a like this I am okay, we're covering,
ready or not? It's wedding Webruary. Yes, yeah, you know this.
I am adding this to the pantheon of a genre

(09:04):
I like to call good for her cinema. Yes, we've
seen We've seen good for her cinema many times over
the years. I'm generally a fan of it. Sometimes it
is like, what does this man think women are like?
This isn't necessarily one of those movies. But sometimes you're
just like, interesting, you know, gymnastics routine going on in

(09:26):
this in this writer's mind, not this one that I
don't know. Good for her cinema, I mean. And then
there's also like, see there's well, what would you.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
Put on the letterbox list of oh boy, good for
her cinema?

Speaker 1 (09:40):
I need your help because I think that the thing
that for sure it is in good for her cinema
if at the end of the movie it's most often
written by men, I would say. And at the end
of the movie, the conventionally beautiful protagonist smokes a cigarette

(10:00):
that has survived the ordeal along with her to sort
of be like, Wow, what a day. I'm talking the
end of Heathers I believe has a good for her cigarette.
This movie has a good for her cigarette. The menu
from last year, as I recall a good for her
cigarette and cheeseburger, which is another not like other girls
skinny girl eating cheeseburger. Come on, like, this is just

(10:24):
I'm trying to think of other times that a woman
smoked a cigarette at the end of the movie because
she's one poor things. I don't think Emma Stone smokes
a cigarette at the end of that movie, but like,
spiritually that's what's going on.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
Right, I mean the cigarette might just be an extra
little flourish because I would put Knives Out on that list.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yes, the coffee is the cigarette. The coffee is the cigarette. Yeah,
I was thinking that as well. This movie, I mean
has it and it came out the same year as
Knives Out, which is right interesting anyways, Yes, I would
add this to the pantheon of good for her cinema.
Sometimes I like it, Sometimes I don't sure, because sometimes
you're just like but ready or not. Whether you like

(11:02):
it or not is certainly, you know, good for her
cinema big time. And it's also a very recent strain
of I think a recent early and dare I say
good strain of rich people bad cinema, which we've been
seeing a whole lot of in the last half decade. Yes, again,
some of it is good. Some of it is clearly

(11:23):
written by rich people, and you're like, what is the
point of this? What is this? But again, I think
this movie kind of stands out. I don't know, Caitlyn, Yeah, Hi,
sorry for just bat. I just have been thinking about
the good for her genre. No, no, I wonder if
there is a letterbox list with that already.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
If not, let's throw it on ours. And then also
you can follow us on letterboxed at Bechdel Cast Matrons.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
You know what else falls into good? You're right, the
cigarette isn't a must, but there has to be like
some sort of item, a little prop yes, fried green tomatoes.
The end is a good for her. It's hannibalism good
for her. Oh yeah, they cook and serve the bad guy.
Good for her. Jennifer's body. I think what would fall into.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
I'm also forgetting how a lot of these movies end.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
The Vivich good for her.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
I mean, she's floating up in this good for her.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Hover. This is a genre. It is a genre in
like every genre, there's goods stay as bads.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
Anyway, let's talk about ready or.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Not shell Yes, please, after you, after you, after you.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
I saw this movie in theaters.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Brave.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
It's so brave of me to do. I enjoyed it
quite a bit. I love a movie that takes place
in a big creepy house. That's where a lot of
Who Done It take place, That's where a lot of
spooky movies take place. I just love the production design
of like a big creepy house and all of the

(13:04):
you know, like board game boxes that you see and
stuff like that. So I really liked the production design.
I like the story, and I like any movie where
rich people get fucked over. So I was a fan.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
I didn't see this, and I have it's weird. I
saw this movie. I remember really clearly watching this movie.
I wonder if you have an experience like this for
a different movie. I watched this movie in the first
two weeks of Lockdown, where it was still like this
is wild, what's going on? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, And

(13:39):
so all I had to say, I remember watching it,
I remember liking it, and then I memory holed the
entire thing along with you know, I think with many
like with several months of my life. You know. So
I watched it, I liked it. I got kind of
burned out on this genre, and I feel like it
kind of got a little far away from itself in

(14:00):
some situation. I felt that way about The Menu if
I'm being on it, where it's like I love an
ensemble movie where we're taking out the rich people and
there's distinct characters, they're broad stereotypes and we're just knocking
them out, like I love. And this year is a
great year for kill the Rich cinema because we also
have Knives out comes out this year, This comes out,

(14:23):
and it kept going for a couple of years after
that because like last year it was like The Menu
and Triangle of Sadness. I mean, there's like a lot
of movies of this ilk that have come out in
the last five years, but this is one of my
faves I really because I feel like this movie is
I don't know, with anti capitalist movies, I feel like
it's like either you have to really go for saying

(14:45):
something or it's fun. And because whenever it lands in
the middle, it feels like, I don't know, a little
dissonant or like not committing to one or the other.
This movie is committing to fun and like the characters
are incredibly broad. The way that they got their money
is incredibly silly, and I just like, I because I

(15:09):
really couldn't remember how the movie ended spoiler alert for
those who haven't watched. But I was like, I feel
like the curse is real. I would be so happy
if the curse is actually real and the curse is
actually real and everyone explodes, and it just like it's silly.
It like it's clear that like it's a killer rich movie,

(15:29):
but it's not getting into theory. It's just like, here
are these rich people and at the end, they're all
going to explode into a cloud of blood. And that
is like such a good movie for me. That movie's
always gonna hit for me. It's very cathartic, it's so fun.
I honestly, I was like, I don't know, I have
to rewatch Knives Out because I really really loved that

(15:51):
movie when it came up. But I'm like, but did
any did a single person explode into a cloud of blood?

Speaker 3 (15:56):
Not one?

Speaker 1 (15:56):
I'm not af I recall, I'm.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
Not at all a right. Should I get into the recap?

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, let's talk about it all right.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
We open on a flashback. We're in a big mansion
on a dark and stormy night, and a family is
playing hide and seek. It seems we see two little
boys running around. One is named Daniel and then his
younger brother who I don't think we learn.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
His name, not yet.

Speaker 3 (16:34):
They're running around and Daniel finds the man who's being
sought in this game of hide and seek, or rather
the man who's being hunted, because this isn't just any
game of hide and seek. It's a scary game.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
It's yeah, fun, fun, fun fun. Yeah, it's well it's
baby Alex that he's shoving into the cupboard.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yeah, y yeah, yeah yeah yeah, Well we'll figure that
out eventually. But Daniel gives up the man's location and
the family comes in. They like shoot him with a
crossbow and then drag him away as the man's his wife,
still wearing her wedding dress, watches in horror.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
They have they must have like friends in the c
I A or something like how are these I mean,
I know that, like probably the internal logic of the
Vivie is like they're rich, rich people can get away
with anything. They're like, I don't know, folks, ritualistic murder.
And then we find out that they kind of live
on a residential street. Uh fun short of I mean

(17:41):
it seems like the ground driving. Yeah, but the grounds
of the estate seem really big and she had to
run very far to get to the street. I don't know,
I truly think, and hopefully the listeners will not hold
this against me. My favorite, the biggest like jump scare
for this movie is when Samorrow Weaving punches a child
in the face. Oh my god, I like and not

(18:03):
to but like, I mean, she kind of did what
she had to do. That kid was about to kill her,
but I just was like, not expecting a child to
get punched in the face. Anyways, let's continue.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yes, so we cut to thirty years later. It's the
wedding day of Grace played by Samara Weaving aka Hugo
Weaving's niece aka Nepotism and I love Spa.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
Weaving but aka Barga Robbie was not available. Let's be serious.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
So it's her wedding and she's getting married to her fiance.
My fiance, some guy, a guy named Alex played by
Mark O'Brien. We meet Alex's brother, Daniel played by Adam
Brodie and we're like, hey, isn't Daniel the name of
the kid from the beginning?

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Hold on, ready, or not here he is I this
is ugh, this is like one of the I think, what, well, well,
he's less villainous in this, but he's in the villain family.
He really has a robust career of playing tremendous assholes,
which is wild because I fell in love with him
on Gilmore Girls, where he was like nice guitar boyfriend.

(19:15):
I did not watch the OC, but I think he's
kind of heart throbby in that show. And then he
just like once Jennifer's Body hit, He's like, I'm actually
a little stinker. And we've seen him in roles like that.
I mean, I literally I saw American Fiction last night. Yeah,
and he I mean, he's a bad guy in that movie.

(19:38):
He's a bad ish guy in this movie. He's a
terrible guy and promising young woman. He's an even worse
guy in Jennifer's Body. He's just a bad guy. If
he's in the movie look Out.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
He and Justin Long have made careers of if a movie,
and especially a horror movie, needs a sleazy, douchey white
guy with brown hair, they call Adam Brody or they
call Justin Long.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
I hope they text about it. I hope They're just like,
are you free? Do you want this one? Hope? Adam
Brody was like, it's all good. I don't need to
do Barbarian but yeah, you take it.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
Oh anyway, Also, someday we should watch the movie Tusk
together because that's my favorite.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Oh I've seen Tusks.

Speaker 3 (20:26):
Oh, I've seen Tusk.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah. That what an all timer. I mean, what isn't
happening in Tusk? You know, nothing shortless because everything is happening.
Everything is happening in Tusk.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
In any case. Alex and Daniel, their brothers, they come
from this uber rich la Domas family who made their
fortune in games.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
They're gamers. I love I loved the just like freezing
that are pausing as we call it in the end
the movie to see what the games they played, and like,
my favorite was the board game family ritual. That was fun.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
I play.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
This movie is silly, It's so silly. I love it.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yes, Okay, so we meet the rest of Alex's family.
His father played by Henry I don't know how to
say this name.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Sure Shurney could be.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
I had watched him the night before in Mission Impossible
Dead Reckoning Part one.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah, thank god, just checking he plays Tony LEEDOMA.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
Yes, so he's mister Daddy, missus Mommy is Andy McDowell.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Fun love her.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
And then we meet Alex's sister in law aka Daniels,
his wife Charity.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
And she's a she's her hair is dark, and so
you know she is gonna be up to no good
in the world of this movie.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
I kept looking at her and being like, is that
Olivia Wilde? But it's not.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yes, she is Olivia Wilde coded right.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
The actor's name is Elise Lavek.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
I believe she is like sci fi famous, but I
wasn't super familiar with her.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
Got it. So we meet those members of the family,
as well as Alex's aunt Helene, who looks very sinister.
She's also the baldest woman in charge because she's got
a short hair.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
She is the baldest woman in charge, and the baldest
woman in charge is the first to explode into a
cloud of blood. Yes, women can't catch up break and
she's also we learn the bride at the beginning of
the movie.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
Yeah, that's I think supposed to be like a twist
or a big reveal, but I was like, which is
kind of like, well, yeah, dull.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yeah, like, there's only so many characters, right anyways.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
Yes, so we meet them, and then there's also a
handful of housekeepers and a butler who we see.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
The butler is I sound like a pilled I like,
but the butler is butlering. His name is Stevens. He's
more than one Stephen. He like they're not. I like,
how like, I don't know. It's so fun to just
be like and and here's the trope, and here's the trope.
And he's a butler and his name is Stevens. There's

(23:24):
no twist involving Stevens. He just is being a butler.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
He has undying loyalty to the rich family that he serves,
which is a thing that we see in movies all
the time that I don't fully get. But yeah, he's there,
and he is several Stevens.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
He's more than he's You're getting more, you're getting double
trouble with you hire Stevens. Although I think that sometimes
I think the more common butler trope, right, is that
like he's doing something behind the scenes and it's kind
of this class success where the butler did it. The
butler killed someone, so not Stevens though Stevens is just

(24:04):
you know, enthusiastically showing up at work.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
Yes, yeah, Okay. So they have the wedding and then
that night Grace and Alex are summoned by the family
to join them for a family tradition where anytime someone
joins the family by marriage, everyone gets together and they're
basically like, let's play a game hashtag Jigsaw eyes.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
I was like, the whole it's so Jigsaw codd yes,
this whole situation, like, and with all due respect to
the movie and the characters, like, we have seven people
in a room and they've got like fifteen percent of
the raw charisma that the puppet Jigsaw has. Like yeah,
sorry to this family, but they're like, you cannot be

(24:51):
more menacing than puppet on bike, Like.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
I wish, come on, I wish at the end when
you get like there's like a burst of flame, you see,
like a flash of mister LaBelle. That should have been
Jigsaw sitting in the chair or sitting on his tricycle.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
If they would, I I feel like James Wan would
have been amenable. He'd be like, yeah, whatever you saw.
He seems like a really nice guy and he's isn't
James Wan Australian. I think so and so is Tomorrow
or earing I guess. I'm like, the directors are American.
I don't know where I was going with that, but
but he is in fact Australian and it's important to

(25:30):
talk about that.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
Anyways, Jigsaw is you know, the the I kept calling
them like the little peepies because they kept forgetting their
last names. But like the Peepee family isn't on Jigsaw's level,
but they have. They've clearly seen Saw.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
And they're like, how can we do that?

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah? How could we get her to understand what she's
probably seen? Saw? One seems aw? Yeah yeah yeah, oh saw. Anyways, sorry,
back to this movie, right.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
So the rest of the family gathers, including some people
we haven't met yet. That's Alex's sister Emily and her
husband Fitch. They also have a couple of young kids,
and everyone sits down to play the game and the
vibe is ominous, and then Alex's father launches into a
story about how the let's play a game tradition started

(26:24):
where his great grandfather, Victor Laudomas, met a man named
mister Label who had this like puzzle box thing.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
He's literally jig. He's like Jigsaw.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
Yeah exactly.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
I also just like, first of all, don't approach a
man with a puzzle box because he could be the
devil Tom Hanks. And the da Vinci code.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
There, that too, that too, okay?

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Anyways, the da Vinci code was Apple.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
The Dvinci code was Apple also, okay, just because I
already mentioned it. But the night before I rewatched Ready
or Not to prep for this episode, I rewatched Dead
Reckoning Mission Impossible.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Oh yes, And I thought you were saying you rewatched
the DaVinci Code. I was like, are you okay? Should
we talk? Are you sick?

Speaker 3 (27:14):
What if you found out that? I just watch it
for fun.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
Sometimes, Hey, I can't hang out tonight watching angels and demons.

Speaker 3 (27:23):
What are we gonna cover angels and demons?

Speaker 1 (27:25):
Though?

Speaker 3 (27:26):
All right? And so toward the beginning of Mission Impossible,
Dead Reckoning, there's this part where Simon Peg basically he's
like dismantling a bomb, but on the inside of the bomb,
it's like that cryptext thing where you have to like
scroll all the things, like good da Vinci code Apple thing?

Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah? Was it Apple?

Speaker 3 (27:46):
It wasn't Apple, but it should have.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
Been yeah, exactly. Never ah man, I just love that
there was a time that a scary book gripped the nation.
But the Da Vinci code was an apple, I you know,
long lived. The lowest common denominator in rocks is awesome.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
Awesome anyway.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
So they're no Jigsaw, but they're you know, they're doing
their best. They're trying to evoke Jigsaw. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:15):
So there's this puzzle box thing, and if Victor Laudomas
can solve the box, mister Label will give him money
to fund any venture. And Victor solves the puzzle box,
which is how he was able to launch his card
game business, which turned into a board game business. Now

(28:36):
the family owns sports teams. I guess you can become
billionaires with a gaming company.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
Sure, I don't know. I mean I think I'm thinking
more of like toy novelty stuff. You definitely can, yeah,
I mean, look at mister Beattie Babies. He owns the
Four Seasons well, and he almost went to jail. I mean, wow,
I know someone read specscript about the Beanie Baby's guy
in Quarantine and if it was you and it was

(29:06):
me and and Caitlin, there is a whole ass movie
that they made that. I still haven't watched because I
resent it because al Gore's daughter wrote and directed it,
and I'm just like, I resent this nepotism at like
a cellular level. Sure, why does al Gore's daughter get
to make the Beanie Baby's movie?

Speaker 3 (29:27):
I know, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
Mine was called mister Baby and it was good. No
one understands me anyway.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
Okay, so we get this explanation of why they play
this game, and so they honor this whatever mister LaBelle
slash great grandfather agreement by playing a game.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah, he's Jigsaw, He's Jigsaw.

Speaker 3 (29:56):
As per tradition, whenever a new person joins the f
a blank card is inserted into the puzzle box and
then it randomly selects and prints the name of that
game onto the blank card. So it could be Chest Checkers,
Old Maid or Hide and Seek, which is the game

(30:17):
that gets printed on Grace's card. And when they see that,
everyone has a very like oh shit reaction, and Grace
is like, tih, what's going on?

Speaker 1 (30:29):
She is like, Grace is, let me know if this
resonated for you. She feels like a Joss Whedon character
to me, where like it's very Quippy's She's like, guys,
what the hell, Like, what the hell's going on here? Like,
I don't know, it just felt very and I don't
even mean I mean, obviously we we've covered the Josh

(30:52):
Whedon issue. That's not even what I'm suggesting. I just
it just felt like she's Joss Whedon code it down to,
like the the con verses and the like saying fucking
he fuck, fuck dick ball bluh, blu bluh. But it
just felt very Joss Whedon codd.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
Yeah, I see that, but I think that that's just
like part of a larger like men who want to
write women in a way where they're like bad asses,
but they don't actually really know how to write women's
So we just keep getting this version of women over
and over.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yes, and there's a few versions. There were a few
instances where it really stuck out to me where it
was like, I don't know, the movie came out in
twenty nineteen, but you're like, this feels dated. Like at
one point, the sister just yells cock, where's my gun?
I'm like, who says that? Who says? What are you
talking about? Anyways, it's not even a criticism I'm just like,

(31:49):
women aren't yelling cock Like, they're just not doing that.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
Speak for yourself.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
I just like, I've never heard that as an exclamatory.
It was very jarring. Yeah, you'd say like fuck or shit, right,
which plenty of characters do. But she she and it
sounds like I don't know. I had this whole fantasy
where like the actress was like, can I say anything else?
And they're like, no, no, no, this makes sense. Please
say the word as scripted and cock, where's my gun?

(32:19):
All right? Whatever?

Speaker 3 (32:21):
Sure? Okay. So the point is Grace's card gets Hide
and Seek printed on it, and we're like, wait a minute.
Wasn't Hide and Seek the game that they were playing
at the beginning where that guy was violently dragged away
and it was all very scary. So Grace has till
the count of one hundred slash the length of a

(32:41):
creepy hide and Seek song to hide somewhere in the
house and then the family will try to find her,
and that's all that's explained to her. So she goes
and she hides in a dumb waiter for a little while.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
She's quipping in there. She's like, what I do my
random wedding night. I guess I'm just in a dumb waiter.
Joss Whedon coded And here's.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
Here's my question, though. Does it pass the Bechdel test
when she talks to herself on multiple occasions throughout the movie? No, no,
but she's kind of responding. She's asking herself questions. She
is and then she's responding.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
I mean, we can't say that. You know, Grace is
not a very active character. That's I certainly wouldn't suggest it.
I don't know. I mean I think it passes it
at a few other points anyways, But like, I don't know,
I just kept thinking. I just kept writing down Joss Whedon.
Woman quipping to herself alone in a room like it's it.

(33:40):
It evokes in early twenty tens energy.

Speaker 3 (33:44):
Yeah, I'm like, why did she keep talking to herself?
Maybe people do that, I docare well, when you find
out that one.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
Of the directors is the co founder of like a
SKA band, You're like, more of these choices are kind
of making sense to me in a way that is harmless,
Like no shade to actually I am a fan of
a local sco thing.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
Yeah, I remember when you were like, I'm gonna buy
a trombone and get into ska.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah, like you know, I'm like down to skank at
the SKA show. But when you're like, yes, I believe
that this movie was co directed by a SKA guy.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (34:26):
No, I see it.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
I feel like there, I mean, no one is skanking,
but like.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
The energy is that yeah a bit anyway? All right, Okay,
so she's hiding. Meanwhile, each member of the family grabs
an old timey weapon because they play the game exactly
how it would have been played in great grandfather's time.
The only person who doesn't grab a weapon is Alex

(34:52):
because he's upset and he doesn't want anything to happen
to his wife.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
I think it's so interesting or I guess. One of
the less effective things for this movie for me was
like how long the movie is using production elements to
try to get you to like sort of stay on
Alex's side, where it's so obvious that he's like, I mean,
he's bad, and I feel like she is like kind
of responding to him in that way. But sometimes the
music will come in where he's like, Babe, you don't

(35:22):
understand it had to be like this, And then there's like, dude, ude, dude,
and you're just like you think I'm gonna fall for this. Yeah,
I don't know, no, I know.

Speaker 3 (35:31):
Okay. So Alex is upset about this whole thing, and
he sneaks off to find Grace and tell her exactly
what's going on. But before he can get the words out,
Grace sees firsthand what this is all about because Emily,
Alex's sister, who is like super coked out on drugs.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, she like drinks a pint of cocaine somehow.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Yes, So she acts a dundley shoots one of the
housekeepers thinking she's Grace, and other family members come in
and they say something about a ritual, but it won't
count because the person who dies has to be the bride,
and then they take the housekeeper's body away, and Grace

(36:18):
has overheard all of this, so she's like, oh my god,
what the fuck is happening? And Alex explains that hide
and Seek is the one bad card and the family
has to play the game and they think that if
they don't kill Grace by sunrise that they will all
die because of some curse or something.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
I've got to say, I like jig saws reasoning for
doing it better. Jessa is not responding to an ancient curse.
He's like, I heard that you were late feeding your
dog dinner. Now you're gonna eat five thousand pounds of
dog food in the acts two minutes, I'll drawing quarter
you and you're just like, there's not I just love

(37:04):
how petty he is. Anyway. I think I just want
to watch Saw again. Yeah, I'm like, Jigsaw, this is
literally none of your business. It's so wild that you're
inserting yourself.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
He really does not have, I would say, a strong motivation.
A lot of the time this family is you know,
you can't empathize with their motivation, but they are motivated.
Jigsaw's just sort of like I just felt like it.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Right, which is like, I mean, he is pretty strongly
motivated by feeling like it. Like you can't you can't
say that he's phoning it in at any point. He's like,
you know, renting warehouses and so forth.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
He's putting in the work.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
I love him. God, what an angel. I love him.
He did what he had to do. Okay. Sorry.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
So Race learns all of this stuff, and she's furious
that Alex knew this was a possibility and he didn't
warn her, and he's like, yeah, oops, but let's get
you out of here. So he tells her to go
to the kitchen while he goes to the security room
to unlock all the doors so she can escape through

(38:20):
this like surface kitchen exit. And so she sets off
toward the kitchen. She rips off part of her wedding
dress and we're like, wow, girl power, and she's like
making her way to where she needs to go. She
has some close encounters with the family along the way,
including with Alex's brother Daniel, who doesn't seem interested in

(38:45):
killing her, and he gives her a chance to get away.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
Yeah, he's Adam Brody ing.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
Yeah, like he is.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
Like and Adam Brody as himself where he's just like
got a glass of scotch and he's like vaguely nihilistic
and like someone needs to towel him off. Yeah, but
he's hot, But yeah, what is that?

Speaker 3 (39:06):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
Why can men be a hot when it seems like
they need to be toweled off? I mean, I don't know.
I'm not sure it's just me. Maybe it's just me.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
I do I like Adam Brody, I hope he's not
a bad person, irl, because I enjoy him on screen. Meanwhile,
Emily accidentally kills another housekeeper and the family is freaking
out because they haven't found Grace yet, and they're like,
how is she outsmarting us in our own house. Meanwhile,

(39:39):
Grace manages to get her hands on a gun and AMMO,
and then she finally reaches the kitchen, but Steven's the butler,
is there, so she has a scuffle with him. The
AMMO turns out to be display only, so she can't
shoot him, but she smashes a bottle of boiling water
into his face and then run away. In the security room,

(40:02):
Alex manages to get the doors unlocked, but then his
father comes in and knocks Alex out and then handcuffs
him to a bedpost. This is also where we get
the reveal that Aunt Helene is the young woman from
the beginning whose husband got killed in that game of
hide and seek, and we're like.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Yeah, I was born Yester put that together? Oh, is
the is the boy in the cabinet the husband?

Speaker 3 (40:30):
But her husband being killed as a part of the
family tradition seems to have radicalized her in the direction
of yes. This family tradition is very important and it's
actually good actually, so she's like really into it. Yeah,
sure it makes sense anyway, So Grace finds her way outside,

(40:54):
but someone is out there with a flashlight looking for her.
So she hides in this stable where all of the
goats live, and I'm like, okay, black Philip.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yes are you there? Good for her cinema Also a
through line of goats, Satanic goats.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
I mean, Satan is in the Vivich Satan is in
Retty or not? There's goats.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Why is no one talking about this? I know? Oh
oh sorry? End of Midsummer another good for her shot. Yeah,
the smile. Yes, they'll keep coming, they'll keep coming.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
Her cigarette is her big flower crown slash.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
She's surrounded by the cigarette.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
Okay, so she's with the goats and then the person
finds her and it turns out to be one of
the little kids. His name's Georgie, and he shoots Grace
in the hand with the gun that he found that
his coked out mother dropped. So he's a bad boy, yes,
And Grace falls into this pit of dead bodies from

(41:58):
previous sacrifice, so she manages to crawl her way out
of the pit and she's running and she reaches this
iron fence that she squeezes through, but Steven's, the butler,
catches up with her in a car. They scuffle again,
but Grace manages to get in the car and she

(42:21):
drives off, and the car has one of those buttons
where you can like push shit and it dials nine
to one one. So she hits the button and talks
to the operator and he's like, oh, actually this car
was reported stolen, so I have to shut it down.
So the car stops. She gets stuck again. She can't
go anywhere, and then the butler appears and shoots her
with a tranquilizer gun. She wakes up while he's driving

(42:45):
back to the house and she kicks Steven's in the
head and he wrecks the car. She tries to escape again,
but then Daniel is right there. He knocks her out,
and then Grace is brought to the house and the
family prepares her for a ritual where they will offer
Grace up as a human sacrifice, and they're drinking from

(43:08):
a goblet, which turns out Daniel has poisoned because he
has a change of heart and he wants to try
to help Grace.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yay Adam Brodie fun. I mean I wish he had,
you know, wish he had turned a little sooner, but yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
That would have been helpful. But yeah, the family is
like puking up blood and it gives her a chance
to run away. But then Daniel's wife, Charity is like
stop right there, and she shoots and kills her husband.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Right, which is I mean, he was bad to her,
but for sure, you know, like he you know, I was.
I was mixed on that where I was like, well,
I guess we as the audience are like Daniel's the
best person in the family that we know, but also
it sounded like he was very absent and very dismissive

(44:02):
and like didn't like her very much. True, and like
I've also it's like what did they did? They just
like played Jenga on their wedding night, Like she just
drew a good card and they're like we're playing GoFish. Ye.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
Yeah, seems to be the case because there's a scene
early on when the other like people who've married into
the family were like I played old Maid.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah I liked. I liked who's like the fitch Fitch?
I mean he is very much the comic relief character.
But I've liked a lot of those jokes when he
was replying, I remember this from the trailer, when he's
like that family shit, when people are like, what are
you up to?

Speaker 3 (44:40):
Ch It's good he's youtubeing how to use a crossbow,
et cetera, pro Fitch.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
I liked the Fitch jokes for the most part.

Speaker 3 (44:49):
Yeah, so Daniel has helped Grace escape and but like
everyone's coming after them. Meanwhile, Alex has used the chain
of his handcuffs to all through the bedpost. I don't
understand the physics of that, but it works.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
I was just like the power of Satan compelled him. Whatever.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
Sure, the point is he's free. Now we cut back
to Grace. The rest of the family's trying to stop her.
She's fighting them off, and then she kills Alex's mom,
and right then Alex comes in and he doesn't like
that his wife killed his mom. So he has a

(45:32):
change of heart in the other direction, his mommy. He
has a change of heart in the other direction, and
Alex wants Grace to be sacrificed, and so the family
grabs hold of her again. They pin her down. They're
about to do the ritual. They're all like Heil Satan
because turns out mister Labail is the devil. But Grace

(45:55):
gets free just as the sun rises, and so they're like,
oh my god, we're gonna die. But it seems like
nothing is going to happen at first, and then they
all explode into blood because you know, they didn't fulfill
their end of the bargain and kill her before sunrise.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
That is so satisfying. It was truly excellent to just
watch Aunt Helen be like, ah, right, I'll do it
like it's it's it's great, and I like that. I
mean just the little I mean they're not little, they're
really broad jokes. But where they the filmmakers decided we're
not gonna make you watch three kids explode. But then

(46:33):
they leave the room and then you just hear like
you're like, whoop. It is very funny. This movie is
silly billy.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
It is yeah, it's true. Okay, so all the family explodes,
Grace steps out into the daylight. She's finally safe. The
house is burning down behind her as emergency responders show up,
and then the movie ends with one of them being like,
what happened to you, and she's like in laws the.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
End, and then we're like, okay, good for herson.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
Okay, where shall we start?

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Oh, let's start with I mean, well, I guess just
a quick rundown of who made this movie? I guess. Yeah,
I already kind of blew the sco thing. Sorry. This
movie is written and directed by men, which, while I
really like this movie, feels was deeply unsurprising.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
So we have a directing pair Matt Bett Nelly Open,
that's mister Scotty, and then Tyler Gillett. As far as
I can tell, he was able to avoid SKA I see.
But they are most I think they first popped off
for the movie VHS, which I saw in college. Well

(48:03):
or they like directed a segment of the movie VHS. Yeah,
and they are now most famous for the new Scream movies.

Speaker 3 (48:14):
Got it?

Speaker 1 (48:14):
They directed, Yeah, Scream five and Scream six and didn't
support Melissa Barrera. And that's interesting, isn't it? But those
are those are the directors. So we have a pair
of like horror guys essentially, and I think that honestly,
I wouldn't be I'm guessing that they got Scream off

(48:37):
of this movie, which makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, yeah,
And it was written by a writer named ur Christopher Murphy,
who I didn't I wasn't able to find anything out about.
Guy Busic, you know, also just kind of works with
these guys and worked on a comedy horror series right
before this movie came out called stand Against Evil that
I watched. It was a fun show and also so

(49:00):
very like I love Janet Varney. Anyways. So that's the
team we're working with here, a very hot horror comedy
literate team, but a very male team. And we are
centering a woman, and that's gonna go a whole lot
of ways historically. And here let's talk about Grace.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
Yes. So, something that I've talked about at length on
the show is the way that women tend to be
written in horror thriller movies, especially ones written by men.
Tend to manifest in a few different ways, most of

(49:42):
them hit me, hit me, hit me, robbed me the
wrong way. One that we talked about a lot, for
example on the iconic Human Centipede episode who as well
as others.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
Who could forget our very first hilarious prank.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
Yeah, So that one is one where women are written
in such a way where they seem generally unaware of
the danger around them. They're overly trusting, they're not cautious,
even though they've been given many, many reasons that they

(50:20):
should be cautious of what's going on. And it just
tends to ignore the fact that the world is a
dangerous place for fem presenting people, and many of us
are like kind of living constantly on edge, especially if
we're you know, like going into a stranger's house, right,

(50:41):
who is gonna sew you into a human centipede? So
a lot of those female characters written by men ignore
the level of like caution, yeah, hyper awareness, that's one thing,
and or they're written to be just like unreasonable. They'll
just make unreasonable choices that sort of go against any

(51:03):
survival instincts or just anything like that, just like making
choices that don't make sense.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Or like observed. I can't think of like a strong
example of this, but sometimes it feels like there's because
I don't even think that it like you know, comes
from a misogynist place, but it does come from like, Okay,
so you have observed women navigating in the world, and
you've just like misunderstood, Sure, why they're doing what they're doing,

(51:29):
and you're like prescribing it in this way that is
just not It's not how it goes, right.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
So my point here being that I feel like, for
the most part, Grace is not written that way in
this movie. I agree, Yeah, you know, she has no
reason to be that suspicious aside from just like being
among rich people, which you know would probably put a
lot of people on edge. But at first she's given

(52:00):
specific reason that she thinks she, you know, will be
in danger.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
And I like that they plant like that. This is
kind of a whirlwooden romance. She doesn't really know the family,
like right, it felt like everything was kind of planted.
The only thing that truly I mean, maybe this is
just like some old money shit that I didn't have.
I was like, why are they like they're supposed to
be having sex on their wedding night?

Speaker 3 (52:23):
Yeah, and they try to, but you.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Know, but I wouldn't want my like mom quite so nearby,
you know, right. Anyways, whatever, maybe maybe rich people watch
their kids consulmate their marriage. I don't know who can say.
I wouldn't know a thing.

Speaker 3 (52:40):
I wouldn't know. But the point is that as soon
as danger rears its ugly head. Grace is hyper aware
of it. She responds reasonably, and for the rest of
the movie she is making choices that track with what's
going on there. There are a few examples where I'm like, Okay,

(53:01):
why didn't you pick up the gun that got dropped
right beside you. Why didn't you run over Stevens the butler?
You didn't kill him. He's trying to kill you. The
whole family's trying to kill you. Make sure he's dead
before you run away, right, things like that that.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
I was like, Okay, I wish totally. But then also
I was like, well, this is her first go I
kept being like, well, it is her first go round
being haunted. True fair as far as we know, because
we I mean, I think that it is interesting and
usually I'm more sensitive to this. We know basically nothing
about her, yeah, other than she was raised without a

(53:36):
lot of money. She was raised by a foster family
that she loved. But I feel like it is like
the undertone of that suggests in a way that I
don't think is you know, fair and the foster like
the issue of foster families is so rarely discussed at
all in movies, but it feels it feels like, oh, baby,
she is excited to be, you know, brought into family

(54:00):
and then quickly is like, oh, they fucking suck never mind,
but yeah, exactly Like I like that we get those
details about her, and it's not like we know too
much more about the rest of the family other than
like jig Saw is going to kill them, like you know,
and the incident that we see at the beginning, but
we don't know really extreme amounts about any character, which

(54:23):
in an ensemble like horror comedy, I'm fine with the
thing that I was most like eager to see play
out that I was like, ooh, how are they going
to stick the landing on this? But I think that
I've only seen Scream five five Cream as it was
as it was stylized. But I feel like, I mean,

(54:44):
that's like literally this exact same team, and I felt
like that was done pretty well too, where I understand
why Grace wants to give Alex a chance to help
her at first because he is literally her only ally,
but I feel like the moment that she bails him
and the moment she has information that is like, I
have no allies except maybe Daniel it's good. I feel

(55:08):
like a lesser movie would be like, but I love him,
I have to trust him, and she has at that moment.
But I think that that made sense and was earned.
But once she realizes she can't trust him, like she's
out right.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
Especially there's a scene in like the Servant's Corridor or
whatever when she's like, what the fuck is going on?
He's explaining the situation to her and she's like, you
didn't warn me, like you knew that this was a possibility,
and right, you didn't tell me any of this. And
he's like, well, you were the one who wanted to

(55:42):
get married. And then she immediately pushes back and she's like, oh,
so this is my fault. And so I like that,
you know, she's pushing back, and that was like, to me,
a clue or like kind of like a bit of
foreshadowing that he isn't the ally that he's seems to be,
or that he'll he has the capacity to, you know,

(56:04):
turn to the dark side kind of thing. Yeah. I
just appreciate the way that she's written in general. But
the other thing, the other thing you'll see for men
writing female characters in horror movies is that women characters
will be written to avoid violence or even though someone's

(56:25):
trying to kill you, oh, I'm going to take the
upper hand and not kill the bad guy who's killing me.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
The most recent example I could think of was is
going to see Phantom of the Opera brag in theaters
freg again brag Yeah, And how you know the peak
of that is like, you know, like she kisses the
Phantom instead of murdering him, which would be reasonable, right,
And where it's like, yeah, like there's expected You're supposed

(56:53):
to show a moment of like a woman's secret weapon
is empathy, which can be true, but so can murder, Like,
you know, let's keep our options open.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
It depends on the situation, so right, And this is
not even true across the board for her character, because
she does attempt to kill people. She does kill Alex's mom,
she does punch a child who had just shot her.
But I feel like the movie isn't very consistent with
how it handles that with her character because the moment

(57:27):
where like she gets in the car she has the
opportunity to run the butler.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
Over, She's not gonna like rehabilitate him in this moment.

Speaker 3 (57:36):
All she had to do was put her foot on
the gas pedal, but instead she puts the car in
reverse and then drives away without running him over.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
So that I guess I as someone without a driver's license,
I feel like I cannot comment on.

Speaker 3 (57:53):
As someone who's had a driver's license for over twenty
years now brag. Wow, yeah, okay, okay. So I if
I was in that situation, because when I saw that
moment in theater.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
It would be so you would rise to this occasion
like no other.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
Thank you so much. When I saw this in theaters,
I was so frustrated really by that specific moment of
her not running him over, because I got.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
To be honest, I would be dead. It didn't occur
to me, Oh.

Speaker 3 (58:22):
My gosh, he's right there in front of the car.
He was just trying to kill her. She was trying
to kill him too, by like strangling him, and you know.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
She's on FaceTime, which is like, well, oh well once
they get to the FaceTime thing. Yeah, I enjoyed that.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
Right, and that all worked for me. But I was
just like, run him over. And this is maybe just
me fixating on a moment, but I also think that
it's some little hint of men writing women in such
a way where women are too polite and too pleasant
and too delicate to do anything that might be considered

(58:59):
like morally gray or even an act of self defense.
But again, the movie doesn't do that with her entirely
because can she punches a child and of course, like
taken out of context, that's obviously a horrible thing to do.
But I guess I just don't know why the movie
isn't more consistent with Grace's character in that regard. But

(59:23):
also I don't know, maybe I'm just being too hard
on the writing and on that particular moment of the movie.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
I don't know, I don't know, but I think in general,
like and again it's it's tricky to like, it's hard
to not compare this to how poorly this is ordinarily done.
So maybe like you know, there's always like certainly things
could always be done better. I think again, taste wise, like,
even though I liked a lot of the one off
jokes in this, you know, it's just like a trope

(59:51):
that I find kind of a little grading where it's
like it just feels yeah, very Jossweed encoded in a
way that I just don't care for, where it's like
overly hippy, it's whatever I want to divorce, like whatever.
I don't know. Not for me, that's not a gender thing,
because certainly Adam Brody is equipping all over the place,

(01:00:12):
everyone is at the Twilight coating of nice dress, Converse shoes.
I could keep rattling off the ways in which this
movie feels like it was almost certainly written in the
early twenty tens, even though it was released in the
late twenty tens. But that's not what this show is about.
But I do feel absolutely certain that that's the case.

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
In any case, I do like Grace, and I also
think that, like Tomorrow, Weaving gives a great performance, like
almost better than the movie deserves. She was in the
trenches and you could feel it. You could feel it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Her uncle el Rond from Rivendale was like, tomorrow, here's
how you act. And she's like, thanks, uncle.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
I got it. That's exactly how napotism works. Ye. Melanie
Griffith like took Dakota Johnson aside. She's like, today is
the day I teach you how to act?

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
Well, Okay, hang on a second, now that you mentioned
Dakota Johnson.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Madam Webb, her Web connects them all. I think we're
gonna I think I hope it's good and we can
cover it on the show. I mean not good, but
like good bad.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Well, what I was going to say was, Okay, it's
Wedding Webruary, Madam Webruary. Is that anything.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
Yes, we're going to release a third episode this month,
and we're gonna go see Madam web I'm gonna go
see I'm gonna go see Madam Webb tomorrow alone or
with people, doesn't really matter to me. If you if
you're free tomorrow night, I was gonna go see Madam Webb.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
I might be, so I'll join you. I do have a.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Want of spield Web.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
Okay, sorry, I have a whole spiel on Wedding Webruary,
and just like wedding representation in this movie. I'll get
to that in a second. But oh yes, because I
was talking about her not killing the butler and she
had a chance. I do want to talk about how
all of the first people to die in this movie
are the like, yes quote unquote help yes, the working

(01:02:09):
class people.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
I have that note as well, and they're also given
like they're all essentially the same character.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
Yes, no characterization, I mean the butler stands out because
he's actually given lines and he's integrated into the plot
quite a bit more. But there are three like maids
slash housekeepers who are all just basically the same person.
We don't know anything about them. They're the first three

(01:02:37):
people to die. They all get accidentally killed by someone,
so Emily the sister accidentally shoots the first housekeeper. We
learn her name is Clara, and they're like she was
our favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Right, which is a class I mean, I feel like
they're trying to do a class thing there, but I
just it didn't hit for me. And it also takes
a very long time for a man to die in
this movie.

Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
Yes, right, Yeah, the optics of a movie being about
like taking down the rich, but the first three people
to die are working class women.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
I felt this way. I mean, and I haven't. I
only saw the menu, just the ones, so maybe I'm misremembering,
but I remember feeling like that not like other girls'
ness of the main character also sort of applied to
her class, where like she is not like the other
poor girls, like or not like the other poor people

(01:03:34):
for reasons because she's the star of the movie. But yeah,
it was interesting that like in a movie that has
a clear vested interest in saying something about class, that
the working class characters are picked off pretty abruptly, especially
three you know, three women that well we learned I
think their names, they're interchangeable, and yeah, and then you

(01:03:58):
get Stevens, who I yes, you have more of him,
he's the working class person that lives the longest. But yeah,
I was, I was. I thought it was like kind
of a miss and a missed opportunity to leave Grace
entirely by herself, because that could have been an opportunity to, like,
you know, if we keep some of those characters in
the mix, that's a chance for them to connect. That's

(01:04:20):
a chance for her to like form an ally shop
even if it doesn't work out, Like but I think
it was. I don't remember the name of the last
was it Dora? I believe Dora.

Speaker 3 (01:04:29):
And then there's a one in the middle who I
think is the only person of color in the movie
who's not like a background actor at the wedding. Yeah,
she I don't even think has any lines, nor do
I think we learn her name.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
She's credited as Tina, but I didn't remember hearing that either,
So yeah, we get those three housekeepers killed right away.

Speaker 3 (01:04:55):
And this is something I've talked a lot about recently too,
that I and maybe there is truth to this, And
I just don't know because I've never met anyone rich
enough to have servants. So brave of me for that
to be the case. But the characters who are like
the servants to the rich people in movies are almost

(01:05:16):
always written to be these like unwaveringly loyal employees to
the rich families that they serve, even if the rich
families are doing horrible things the way they're doing horrible
things in this movie. And I just I'm sure there's
some sort of like aspect of the help being dehumanized

(01:05:39):
in a way that it sort of conditions them to
think that they have to be so loyal to the family.
I'm sure there's something there that I just don't have
a full understanding of because I, again I don't know anyone,
but like you're acting like I do, well, But I
just like it's more just like, is there truth to
this slash? Why are servant characters always written to be

(01:06:03):
this way? Because we were talking about this and like, yeah,
I feel like we talked about this in the Beauty
and the Beast episode, and we talked about this in
the Haunted Mansion and what a Girl Wants and stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
I think that there is most likely not true that
I mean, and even if there is, you know, like
a long term loyalty to one's employer, it's certainly not
like one dimensional in this way. Like that's a complicated thing.
And I don't know, like there's still movies that are
doing that where they're like our servants are like our family,

(01:06:38):
and you're like, well, but that's not true, like there's
an exchange going on. But yeah, I don't know. I
guess I would chalk that up to how every character
in this movie is fairly one dimensional. But again, it's
like if Grace is the only person Grace and Alex
and Daniel are kind of the only characters that get

(01:07:00):
a like shades of gray shown in their personality. Yeah,
for what this movie is and what it seems to be.
You know, however, Goofily trying to get at to knock
off our working class characters so quickly is ridiculous. It's
like weird.

Speaker 3 (01:07:20):
It just feels antithetical to what the movie's trying to say.
I think what it would have worked better is if
and if you have like one like hyper loyal servant
character and that's Stevens, Like fine, but it would make
more sense to me if the three working class servant
women are like, fuck this family, I don't want to

(01:07:42):
be complicit in the awful things they're doing, and they
try to help Grace or.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
At least, yeah, some gradient among the three women, because
like there are three people are gonna feel different about
this situation. I think, yeah, Like I'm not bothered if
you know, because there's sometimes two the other direction where
it's like all women are loyal to women, which is
just demonstrably untrue. Sure one is like no, I'm saving
my ass tonight, like best of luck to you, Grace,

(01:08:10):
But yeah, like another person that's like, let's work together,
which probably would have been really helpful for Grace and
clearly the servant because it did not work out for them.
I don't know. Yeah, like if there was some I
also just feel like that would have made the movie
a little It would have resolved some of the like
second act, like she's getting out of a lot of

(01:08:31):
like there's a lot of set pieces that she has
to get her way through, which is great. But it
would have been cool to have someone with her for
a little bit of even if they don't make it
to the end, because she's the final girl and this
movie is not trying to get around the final girl trope,
like and that's fine, but yeah, it just why even
have Like it just felt like the working class the

(01:08:53):
three women specifically were put there for it to be
shocking when they suddenly started dying, like that is sort
of the only function they serve, and in a movie
about class, that is like not a logical Like, that's
not a thoughtful choice.

Speaker 3 (01:09:09):
Right, Instead, another pitch for a different way to handle
it would be if you need bodies, bodies bodies to
start dying in this movie, which stands a reason it's
a horror thriller where violence is happening and you want
to see people die along the way, just bring in
more of the rich, bring in some cousins, bring in

(01:09:31):
some other random family members who can be in on this,
and then make them more minor characters who are the
first ones to die. That would have worked better for
me too. Yeah, anyway, so I guess it boils down
to I appreciate that this movie's obvious agenda is like, yeah,

(01:09:57):
rich people are scared and soul lists and they'll go
to whatever lengths, whatever horrible lengths, to hold on to
their wealth. And again, it's very cathartic to see them
die at the end, and I'm glad that, like no
one was spared because they're all complicit to some degree.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
Yes, that was something that I was like, really, God,
I hope that it's not the sort of thing where
it's like there was one really good guy and you're like, no,
there wasn't. Come on, yeah, be serious.

Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
The other spiel they have ties back to the theme
of wedding webruary.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
Let's web it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:41):
Let's madam web this together. So most movies that feature
weddings frame a wedding frame the idea of people getting
married as this amazing, celebratory thing that's so happy and
nothing will ever go wrong. And this movie is more

(01:11:02):
of a kind of cautionary tale of having a wedding
or of getting married, and a cautionary tale of how
doing that significantly changes a person's circumstances, or can significantly
change a person's circumstances. You know, you get you inherit,
these in laws possibly and a dynamic can change in

(01:11:25):
your relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
Or that just like you could be marrying. I don't know.
I mean, I guess this comes up in movies, but
not in wedding movies. We're at the air where it's
like you married the wrong person and that's okay, you
can get out of it, like that's you know, or
I mean in Alex's case, it's like getting married does
not fundamentally change what a piece of shit you are,

(01:11:49):
Like right, you know, it's like not because yeah, I
think that, Like you know, weddings and just married in
general are often presented as this cure to a state
of being whatever that is, and I feel like what
that quote unquote means has changed over time, but still
it's like, well, this will fix things and it never does,
like it never that, you know, if you want to

(01:12:11):
get married, get married, but like you're I feel like
the successful a successful marriage indicates two people who know
that they're going to be the same people after this day,
and Alex is clearly I think Alex is getting married
because he thinks that like she can fix him or whatever,
and then once he realizes that he can't, he turns

(01:12:32):
on her.

Speaker 3 (01:12:33):
Right, So yeah, speaking personally as someone who has very
little interest in getting married, brag. I appreciate a movie
that does present getting married as a cautionary tale. And
I'm not saying that everyone who gets married is going
to have awful in laws who are going to try

(01:12:53):
to kill you, but sometimes but it does.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
But a lot of.

Speaker 3 (01:12:58):
Movies just present and the concept of marriage in this
very sanitized, fairy tale way without recognizing the effort it
takes to maintain a marriage, or the compromises that come
with getting married or anything like that. And I think
there is a gendered aspect to that, because for sure,

(01:13:22):
girls and women in particular are often sold the fairy
tale of wedding and marriage, and they're kind of encouraged
to have unrealistic expectations about it, Like fairy tales and
brom comms and all those things are targeted toward a
specific demographic because in so many societies throughout most of history,

(01:13:48):
marriage is slash was a way to turn women into property.
So you had to trick women into thinking that marriage
was awesome actually.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
Exactly, that it's special, that it's like special and it's
your day and like you are not big exchanged for goats,
this is your like yeah, and that you get and
and you know as time goes on, and that is
although it's like still I don't know, like when my
parents were married, it was only very recently that like

(01:14:18):
my mom could get her own credit card, Like it
is still like there's elements of that exchange that are
present in marriage, but and and in different parts of
the world it works differently more so or less so.
But even in the places where that is not the
case anymore, there's like this commercial aspect to it now
and like where it's like you have to got I mean,

(01:14:39):
how much did those twenty seven dresses cost her? Anyways? Uh,
Like now it's like an event and it's I feel
like where some of the thankfully some of the women
as property has been lost legally over time, although that's
being regressed as well. It's been replaced with this commercialism.

(01:15:01):
And like you're saying, like selling the fantasy starting from
when you're very young, yeah, and that fantasy is not
sold to boys and men in the binary children's entertainment universe.
I feel like you are sort of conditioned to be
like more like I am provider.

Speaker 3 (01:15:20):
I am like.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
There is still this ownership that comes with how men
are conditioned to see hetero marriage right, and women it's
like it's my big day and like whatever happens after today,
I don't know, but that's I mean. But also, you
know we talked about we we love to attend a wedding.
We love to attend a wedding.

Speaker 3 (01:15:42):
Invite us to your weddings. Slash will officiate them.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
It's also yeah, I think it is like yeah, I
always say I agree with you. I think that this movie.
And I also like that we don't even really go
We don't go to the wedding. We go to like
the photo shoot and then the after party. Like the
movie very intentionally does not care about the wedding, right,
And that's fun. You never see a movie about weddings
where it's not leading up to the wedding.

Speaker 3 (01:16:06):
Yeah, it's great. Yes, So again I just appreciate even
though this movie is a very like heightened horror movie
version of this kind of cautionary tale, I appreciate it
nonetheless because of how most movies again present it as
a very fairy tale, sanitized Oh, it's the wedding is

(01:16:27):
the best day of your life, and who cares about
what happens after that? As long as you just have
a really nice wedding, and I like that the movie
doesn't take that approach.

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
I agree, I agree, thanks, And yeah, it's a fun
I've never seen a wedding movie like this. You know,
I don't necessarily need another, but I think it's it's
unique in that way. In other ways, it's you know,
doing a fun the same thing. Yeah, I want to
talk about the other women in this family. Sure, we

(01:17:00):
don't know very much about them. I mean the anti
k Doll character. Again, I feel like maybe this is
like a writing thing where her being awful was like
supposed to be a twist where you're like, but like
I knew, like the doy I don't know, we get
a little bit from her where she I mean, she
and Daniel are kind of like doing the same thing

(01:17:21):
where they're like, we like you, we like you, we're
rooting for you. But at the end of the day,
the board game dynasty must stand. And I don't know,
I guess there's really not I don't have that much
to say about her. I wish I had a little
more to say about her. I also think she would
have been a cool character to like turn against people

(01:17:43):
too late. I don't know why, Like, did the person
who ends up sort of switching and like beginning your
redemption arc before being killed have to be a brother.
There are so many women in this house, but you know,
I think there's an opportunity for like especial because you know,
his mother has seen this happen over the years and

(01:18:06):
is the quote unquote an outsider. She's buried into the family,
So it would have been cool to see another woman
who is an outsider feel a type of way about
it and maybe, you know, at least offer some sort
of solidarity. Even if it does, I don't know. I
just feel like, especially because it's like they had Andy McDowell,
I just wish that they had done more with that character.

(01:18:27):
I don't know I did. That was all I really
had to say about it. I just wish that there
was more to talk about.

Speaker 3 (01:18:32):
Yeah, there's kind of not much to talk about any
of the other women because with Daniel's his wife Charity,
you learn that she has the way she describes it, well,
she barely describes it. She just says, like, you know
what my life was like before this, Because he's Daniel's

(01:18:52):
criticizing her for like not flinching the second she learns
of this family's like you know, nefarious history and their
yeah goat sacrifices and all that kind of stuff, and
she's like, well, as long as I'm rich, I don't
give a shit. And so that's her character.

Speaker 1 (01:19:11):
And you know, there.

Speaker 3 (01:19:13):
Are people like that who come from humble beginnings that
definitely you know, suddenly have access to wealth and then
they become an evil person. Seems to be the case
for Charity. But that's kind of all we know about her.

Speaker 1 (01:19:27):
I also don't know like why they Like I had
questions about why these two were married at all, Like
they don't like each other, which is I mean, that's
like ninety percent of married couples. But like, I do
feel like in a movie you should get some sort
of taste of like why things aren't working or or

(01:19:50):
just yeah, because with Charity, the only explanation you get
is this sentence of like, I am not going to
go back to being poor, which is certainly like you're
saying an attitude that exists. But why did they get married?
You know, because at least we can tell from the
you know, very kind of dry opening scene of this
movie that like Grace and Alex like each other. They
seem to you, that's why they appear to have gotten married. Yeah,

(01:20:13):
that's why a lot of people do it. Not all,
but but but many. M Yeah. With with Daniel and Charity,
I'm like, was this arranged? Like why?

Speaker 3 (01:20:22):
I mean, my guess is that they did love each
other for some time and then they got married, and
then they grew to resent each other and hate each
other the way.

Speaker 1 (01:20:30):
We're just supposed to go on our like what we
know about what happens with married couples is they like
each other for a while.

Speaker 3 (01:20:36):
And then they don't anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:20:38):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I just felt
like it was, especially because our sympathies are with Daniel,
that it kind of turns us against Charity in a
contextless way where again and again, like the same missed
opportunities as Andy McDowell's character.

Speaker 3 (01:20:55):
True, and then the thing that makes the least sense
to me, But maybe maybe there's something to contextualizes. I
don't know. But the way Aunt Helene, what is that
you see her in the beginning, She's the bride whose
partner is being human sacrificed, and you see how traumatizing

(01:21:17):
that is for her and how upset she is by it.
She seems to love her husband and is very sad
that he gets killed. The next time we see her,
she's been radicalized in the other direction, and she's like, no,
this tradition is so important and it's for the greater good.
But like, we don't understand how she has that turn,

(01:21:40):
or like what prompts her to arc in that direction
as a character, so.

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
And that it's like we're like owed by the narrative
if they're gonna go out of the way, Like, her
behavior makes more sense to me if we don't even
see that beginning scene right, like you're just like, oh,
this is the like and again playing into like cooky
older woman stereotypes. Right, Everyone in this movie is a
stereotype to some extent. But it makes more sense to

(01:22:07):
me if we don't know that she's been through this
tremendous trauma, because then I'm like, you need to tell
us how she got from A to B. You just
have to.

Speaker 3 (01:22:14):
Yes. I agree also with Aunt Helene. I feel like
the trope is present of an older woman, especially one
who is unmarried and who doesn't have children. That type
of woman equals scary, creepy Crone because even though she
and Andy McDowell's character are presumably roughly the same age

(01:22:38):
and the actors are similar in age, Aunt Helene I
feel like, is styled to look older. You know, she's
got like the short white hair, and then just like
considering she's often presented as this like startling jump scare
or just a creepy presence in general. Ye, that feels

(01:22:58):
pretty intentional to me.

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
Yeah, I think I think that there is like a
certain kind of visual coding to that as well. That is,
and like also the way that that character is written,
as we just talked about, like kind of falls apart
under light scrutiny, and it seems like in favor of
having her be the like I'm gonna use the word
kookie because it just is like this void of like

(01:23:24):
the kookie Aunt that is like chosen in favor of
giving us a character that was set up, and the
visual choices support that sort of like we're just gonna
do the kookie Aunt aesthetic instead of thinking critically because
it's like this movie is challenging somethings and then other
things are just like there as you would normally see them,

(01:23:46):
which I feel like is like men maybe true, just
throwing that out there, but yeah, yeah, that that definitely
felt dissonant, and also like both of those characters are
under like it just sure what is their relationship like
because these women have known each other for thirty five years.

Speaker 3 (01:24:08):
Presumably what I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:10):
There's just no insight into The only insight you really
get is like Alex and Daniel, which is another thing
that like Emily is left out of this sibling dynamic.
She's like turned into a you know, like very stereotype,
like you know, she's always high and she's jittery and

(01:24:31):
she's killing people. Where you know, Alex and Daniel get
you know, it's still the tone of the movie, but
they get some sort of arc as siblings. They get
some sort of arc morally, Emily is like there for
comic relief, Like why is that.

Speaker 3 (01:24:48):
Every scene she's in she just like snorts some more
coke or eats some pills.

Speaker 1 (01:24:56):
Which is also like weird, I mean in a way
that I don't even know how to feel about. But
like very like rich lady stereotype, like using uppers all
the time and you know, be pleasant and be appealing
and blah blah blah.

Speaker 3 (01:25:09):
Yeah, I don't even know how to compute that in
this context, but the point is, Yeah, why isn't she
brought into the fold of the sibling dynamics. She's just
sort of like she's the koked out mommy who's dealing
with trying to raise a family. I guess, even though
you barely see her interacting with her kids. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:25:31):
I didn't even realize she had kids until it was
like surprised. That was the kid that Tomorrow Weaving punched
in the face, was like her kid. Yeah, and that
is only there to teach Daniel that this is actually
fucked up, you know, Like I don't know. I yeah,
especially like I I love a sibling movie. I love
siblings at odds. Sure, Succession is my favorite television program.

(01:25:56):
But this, yeah, she feels very intentionally left out, to
the where sometimes I forgot she was their sister. Same
so that's not great. Yeah, yeah, I would have liked
to see her more meaningfully included. Shout out to Melanie s. Grafano,
though she is currently on Star Trek's Strange New Worlds,

(01:26:16):
which is a really awesome show starring Hot nepotism Ethan
Peck as Hot Spock number two because Zachary Quintal is
obviously also well Spot. You know, all of this boxs
are hot. Sure he's Gregory Peck's grandson, question mark, Okay, Yeah, anyways,

(01:26:40):
nepotism is everywhere, guzy, Madam Webb in any case, Yeah,
I felt like that there's every woman. I mean, and
I want to be fair and say that, it's like,
it's not as if there aren't male characters that are
underwritten or dimensional to some extent. Everyone is, but it's

(01:27:03):
just as like who is given a little more tends
to be the male characters outside of Grace getting the
edge time and time again. I thought Fitch was funny.
He family is shit.

Speaker 3 (01:27:18):
He's also like deliberately written to be very annoying so
that you're when he dies, you're like, finally, yeah, yeah,
certainly there was more room for a little bit more
character development all around. But yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:27:35):
But it's also like, I don't know, I honestly like,
if you're not watching for that, like this is a
fun movie to be like brain switched off. The entire
family fucking explodes at the end, Like, uh, it's awesome,
It's so awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:27:50):
Yes, that's all I had to really say about it
at this time. I'm sure I'm missing something, but well.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
I mean just to state the like, this movie takes
place in the rich white people world, and we're also
contained in an environment, so it's like not a movie
that is even really open to any sort of diversity.
I feel like by design, but certainly worth mentioning. And yeah,

(01:28:19):
I like, you know, in spite of the flaws that
we have, just you know, taken apart at length, I
enjoy this movie. I think it's fun, same and it
reminds me why I like Samorrow Weaving because I feel
like that I can't think of another movie she's like
the lead of She's in a lot of stuff, but yeah,
I feel like she's rarely the sta Anyways, I like her.

(01:28:40):
I like this movie. It passes the Bechdel test, yeah, sparingly,
but it does.

Speaker 3 (01:28:45):
Not very much. There are a couple conversations between Grace
and Becky, who's Alex's mom aka Andy McDowell. Those conversations
are almost always about Alex, I think, so I don't
know if those count, but.

Speaker 1 (01:28:59):
They were like two line it was. It was minimal.

Speaker 3 (01:29:04):
Yeah, yeah, I'm inclined to be like the whole thing
is pretty much about Alex. But Grace and Emily talk
about Grace's wedding dress and how Emily has been stalking
Grace on Instagram, and so that passes.

Speaker 1 (01:29:20):
Stalking another woman on Instagram. Yeah, that does pass the
bactyl test. I do it every day.

Speaker 3 (01:29:27):
Well, you don't have to stalk me, Jamie.

Speaker 1 (01:29:29):
I'm right here, Sorry, I'm doing it anyway. Called one one.

Speaker 3 (01:29:35):
I won't be stopped, Okay, And I contend that Grace
talking to herself does pass the Bechdel test.

Speaker 1 (01:29:42):
But anyway, I guess, well, I mean, and I can
find passing the Bechel test to be annoying. So yeah,
I think it does like it does, and I think
spiritually it does. But there were more opportunities, like we're
talking about, like, so let's let's I mean, well, let's
get into the true metric, the one true metric.

Speaker 3 (01:30:00):
Yeah, nipple scale wise, I would give this movey. I
will go like three, I think, yeah, maybe even three
and a half, somewhere in that range. I do appreciate
the commentary on rich people are scary and isn't it
fun to see them explode? I appreciate the way that

(01:30:24):
Grace is written, especially compared to so many other women
in horror movies that are written by men and men
just having a fundamental misunderstanding of how women move through
the world, what motivates their choices, etc. This movie didn't

(01:30:44):
really do that, so I appreciate it. It is a
very white movie based on just the premise that is
put forth, but that doesn't mean there weren't other opportunities
to be more inclusive. Again, there was, oh, a woman
of color as one of the housekeepers, and she didn't

(01:31:05):
have any lines. She It just like pans to her
as she's being brutally killed, and then that's all we
get from her.

Speaker 1 (01:31:13):
Yeah, so I mean I think that and that that
applies to race, class, like everything. There there were opportunities,
but yeah, they just needed to be centered on these
rich white brothers. Yes, more interesting opportunities were afoot.

Speaker 3 (01:31:28):
But truly so, I'll give it three point twenty five
nipples and hopefully this kind of paves the way for
a little like for more kind of like nuanced examinations
of like taking down the rich. This is a very
fun one. This is a very heightened, silly version of

(01:31:50):
that story. But I also feel like it missed some
opportunities either way, three point two five nipples, and I'll
give one to Tomorrow. I'll give one to Hugo Weaving.

Speaker 1 (01:32:03):
Awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:32:04):
And then I'll give one nipple to the actor who
plays Tina the housekeeper, who's the woman of color who
doesn't get any lines or I think a name that
we hear on screen. The actor's name is Selene Cy.
So I'm giving one nipple to her, and I'll give

(01:32:25):
my one quarter nipple to mister Labail the devil. I
love mister Labail slash Jigsaw. It should have been Jigsaw.

Speaker 1 (01:32:37):
I'm going to do it. So I'll keep your short
and see, I'm giving it three nipples there, I'll go
in to Jigsaw. Okay, I think, yeah, this is a
fun movie that uh I think maybe like a little
of my own, like you know in twenty nineteen Big
Dress Conference Shoes, really come on, be serious, serious, you know,

(01:32:59):
it's just really it feels like was this movie produced
by a man named Trip and someone from the Vanderbilt family,
which is another thing we talk about all the time
where you're like, oh, interesting that a literal Vanderbilt is like, oh,
the rich people are bad. Movie am I right, guys,
like we're all hanging out here. Shut up, you know,
like fuck shut up anyway. Yeah, I just think it's

(01:33:23):
fun that the producers of this name were named Trip, James, Vanderbilt,
William and Brad, Like, come on, you know it's written.
It was. The movie is written by a guy.

Speaker 3 (01:33:31):
Named Guy and I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:33:33):
Really turning on everyone at the end, and was directed
by a ska musician. And and do I like the movie, yes,
But do I think that it like outside of its
female protagonist. I think that this is like a thing
that a lot of male writers and filmmakers tend to do,
is like I'm gonna get one woman character right, and
then the rest may like you know, and on and

(01:33:54):
on and on. But if you're looking for a fun
slasher movie, holy shit, Like the end of this movie
makes any issue I had leading up well worth it.
The whole family fucking explodes into a cloud of blood
my favorite kind of death. It's great, It's so silly, silly,
Billy's uh tomorrow weaving fun, three Nipples to Jigsaw, long

(01:34:18):
live ska music.

Speaker 3 (01:34:19):
Wow, And there you have it. Listeners. That is our
unlocked episode from the Matreon on Ready or not. And
as we said at the top of this episode, most
of our Matreon episodes exist only on patreon dot com
slash spectl cast, so head over there to access those episodes.

(01:34:45):
It's only five bucks.

Speaker 1 (01:34:46):
A month, always has been, always will be.

Speaker 3 (01:34:48):
And that gets you two bonus episodes every single month,
plus access to the back catalog of over two hundred
bonus episodes, most of which again are behind that paywall
because we have things to buy, such as food.

Speaker 1 (01:35:05):
I was like, such as rent. So yes, thank you
so much for listening, and double thanks if you are
Matrian subscriber who is revisiting this episode. We will be
back next week with more piping hot, fresh content and

(01:35:26):
let us know if you liked ready or not too.
I don't know if you can handle two women in
a movie this week, totally understand if you have to
see Project Hill Mary and you can only handle Ryan
Gosling and a rock at this time. That is where
we're at culturally, and let's not just let's we don't
need to talk about it. Yes, we will see you

(01:35:46):
next week. Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production
of iHeartMedia, hosted and produced by me Jamie Loftus.

Speaker 3 (01:35:58):
And Me Caitlin Dorante podcast is also produced by Sophie
Lichtermann and.

Speaker 1 (01:36:03):
Edited by Caitlin Durante. Ever heard of Them?

Speaker 3 (01:36:06):
That's Me and our logo and merch and all of
our artwork in fact are designed by Jamie Loftus, Ever
heard of her?

Speaker 1 (01:36:13):
Oh My God? And our theme song, by the way,
was composed by Mike Kaplan.

Speaker 3 (01:36:18):
With vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski.

Speaker 1 (01:36:21):
Iconic and a special thanks to the one and only
Aristotle Ascevedo.

Speaker 3 (01:36:26):
For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash
Specdelcast