White Chicks with Taylor Garron

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women
in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands
or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast. Start
changing it with the Bechdelcast.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Attention Bechdel cast listeners. We are going on tour.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
And we know we've been on tour many times over
the years. But guess what? This is a very, very,
very special tour that can only happen one time because
it is our 10 year anniversary. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
We are doing a 10 year.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Whoops.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
We didn't dismantle the patriarchy anniversary tour.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Oh, we're so excited. And we are starting. We are
kicking it off. In the Northeast this October.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
With shows in New York City. Ever heard of it?
On October 12th. Baltimore, October 15th. Philadelphia, October 17th. State College,
October 18th. Pittsburgh, October 19th. And Boston, October 21st. We
are really going to go big. And because it's so
close to Halloween, we would highly encourage you to dress

(01:09):
up as your favorite movie character. We certainly will be
doing so. And it's just going to be a big celebration.
I'm so damn excited. You can buy tickets at Linktree
slash Bechtelcast. All of our ticket links are listed there.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
We will see you there, Northeast, and see you rest
of the U.S. and also Canada very soon.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
See you there.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
The Bechtelcast.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Making my way downtown. Walking fast. Faces pass and I'm homebound.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Is that one of your songs? One of my songs? Yeah.
Were you a Vanessa Carlton? Did they get white women correct?

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Oh, I see.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
For me? Certainly.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Certainly.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
I love Vanessa Carlton.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
I mean, if I were to lie, I would say,
oh my God, yes, totally. This was absolutely one of
my songs.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
But it wasn't. You were listening to what? Slipknot? Honestly,
in 2004, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
It was a bit of Slipknot. It was a bit of...
I was into Nine Inch Nails at the time. I
was into Korn.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
I forgot you were an alt teen. So cool.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
It was more that I was just influenced by my
older brother's music and I had not really established a
personality of my own yet.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
That is kind of an older brother vibe. Okay, that
makes sense. Yeah, I was a Vanessa Carlton kid. Also,
I vividly remember that that song and that music video
would play at our local Chuck E. Cheese when that
song came out. I don't know when... When Chuck was
on a break, when Chuck was taking five, they threw Vanessa.
I remember the music video so vividly. I saw it

(02:45):
500 times against my will.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Or not 500. Every time I got a good report card,
I saw that music video against my will.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
That was your good report card treat? A trip to
Chuck E.

Speaker 4 (02:55):
Cheese?

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Insisted. Insisted on going to the Rat Casino. Always have,
always will. Nice. Welcome to the Bechdel cast. My name
is Jamie Loftus.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
My name is Caitlin Durante. This is our show where
we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the
Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point. What is
it though, Jamie?

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Well, it's so relevant to the conversation today, which is
actually kind of true. So it is a media metric
created by friend of the show, namesake of the show,
Alison Bechdel. There's a lot of versions of the test.
She originally created it as a one-off joke in her
comic collection, Dykes to Watch Out For. But it has
since been adapted to a more mainstream media metric. Our

(03:39):
version of the test requires that two people of a
marginalized gender with names speak to each other about something
other than a man for more than two relevant lines
of dialogue. Jumping off point. For discussion. We'll be talking
about all sorts of things today. We're kind of going
to be doing a dissertation today.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
I mean, my notes are copious.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Truly. I read so many more. There are so many
more academic papers on white chicks than you would think
is what I'll say. And I've read many of them
and I'm thrilled to talk about it with our incredible guest.
Let's get her in here.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Oh my gosh. She's a friend of the show and
she's a teacher at Abbott Elementary.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
It's Taylor Guerin. Hi, everyone.

Speaker 4 (04:23):
Hey, how's it going?

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Welcome. Welcome.

Speaker 4 (04:25):
Thank you for having me on. This is a dream
come true.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
This episode has been a long time in the making. Years, truly.

Speaker 4 (04:31):
I think we were at a party sometime and we
talked about it or something, right?

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Like three or four years ago.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
Yeah. And here we are.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
So we made it happen.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
And here we are.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Better late than never.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Truly. Truly. And we are indeed covering White Chicks today. 2004,
directed by Keenan Ivory Wayans. This is very much a
Wayans production because Sean and Marlon Wayans are in the
main roles. They are the titular White Chicks. Taylor, what
is your history with this movie?

Speaker 4 (05:04):
Okay, so I have an interesting one, and maybe everybody
says that, but there was a party at one of
my aunt's houses when I was it had to be,
I guess, 2004. So I was pretty young and all
the adults were like downstairs drinking and partying. And so
they put all of like the younger people upstairs. And I,

(05:25):
as a Cape Verdean person who was also raised Catholic,
I have like 900 first cousins. It's just like, that's
how it goes. And so we were all piled into
this one room and the older cousins who were like
probably 15, 16, put on a movie for us. And
the movie just happened to be White Chicks.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Amazing.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
I don't remember, like, You remember the first time you
see movies that like change your life. You know what
I mean? Like the classics. You remember like seeing Star
Wars in the theater with your dad or like whatever.
But this was special in a different way because there
are a lot of questions I had. I wasn't a
sheltered kid necessarily, but I was certainly like going to

(06:03):
church and like sex things were not something that I
was very privy to. Kind of drug things weren't really.
And it was a coming of age moment for me,
especially when my cousins during that one scene covered our eyes,
all of our eyes to the best of their ability.
And of course, it was very, it was very sweet.
And I get what they were trying to do. But like,

(06:25):
you can't really cover a kid's eyes during a movie
and expect them in the in the big year of
2004 to not figure out another way to go find
white chicks and watch that scene. And I did. Did
I understand it? Absolutely not. Not for a couple of years.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (06:39):
If you're listening at home, um, we'll probably get to
that scene at some point.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
I mean, during, during Caitlin's famous recap, I'm sure we will. Um,
so you saw it pretty soon after it came out. Uh,
and then what's been your relationship with it since.

Speaker 4 (06:54):
Since, uh, wow. I, I probably watch it like every
other year. It was maybe a once a year thing. Okay.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
So this movie is a part of your life.

Speaker 4 (07:02):
It sure is. And I think that it was maybe like,
I think I showed it to some people in college
and they were like, this is really offensive. And I
was like, yeah, that's the point. Um, now I kind
of watch it as like a touchstone of like what
we used to be able to kind of make and
get away with. Not that I want to make movies
that offend people, but it's like, you know, they were
just handing out money in back in the industry back

(07:25):
in the day, especially if you were away. And I
guess they were like, here's some money. That's, that's a,
it's a funny one-off joke. What if two black guys
played two white women? 2004, that's like the peak of comedy.
People love that.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
That is high concept comedy.

Speaker 4 (07:41):
You know what I mean? So I think I watch
it more as just like a, wow, what if I
was born like 15 years, 20 years earlier and I
could have made that kind of bullshit and I could
be rich. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
It is sort of a time capsule for that era.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
Yeah. 100%. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
There's maybe a like, 15-year amount of time where this
movie can happen. 100%. 2004 is one of those years.

Speaker 4 (08:05):
And they found it.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
They did.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Jamie, what about you? What's your history with this movie?

Speaker 1 (08:11):
This movie, I had seen it in... This is one
of the many movies we've covered that I saw in, like,
chunks on TNT over a course of years. I don't
know if I've ever actually seen it all the way through,
but this is definitely... I feel like that's true for
me with most, like... broad comedies of the 2000s that
I have seen were on TNT.

Speaker 4 (08:32):
This was definitely a TNT movie.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Huge. White Chicks got play on TNT. I think more
than any other Wayans Brothers movie I've seen, like even
more than Scary Movie. But yeah, I remember this movie
coming out. I guess I would pair it, not thematically,
but I would pair it with Borat. in the pantheon
of movies that kids quoted a lot in middle school.

(08:57):
Even though I hadn't actually seen this movie, it was
impossible not to be aware of it. It was so successful.
I recognized most of the major set pieces from it.
This might have been my first full viewing, but what
I remember is, I think more than most, not to.

(09:19):
But I've always been very, very sensitive to uncanny valley stuff.
There's certain uncanny valley things that are just really challenging.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
And it's specifically- The animals talking?

Speaker 4 (09:31):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
The animals with CGI mouths talking?

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah. 90s and 2000s talking animals that don't blink, but
their mouths move.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
Horrific.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
Horrific.

Speaker 4 (09:39):
I didn't like the babies and baby geniuses.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Exactly. Over that.

Speaker 4 (09:43):
I really didn't like that.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
And this isn't that, but I do remember the contacts,
the choice of contacts here. Oh, yeah. And I think
it's obviously intentional. It's a part of the bit. But
there are scenes in this movie where I'm like, they
could have brown eyes, like They could have brown eyes.

Speaker 4 (10:01):
White people have brown eyes. The craziest part of that, Jamie,
is that the masks are actually not that bad. No.
They don't freak me out. The masks don't freak me out.
They're pretty good for the time.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
It's just the eyes. It's the eyes, for sure. Then
and now, the eyes have it. But this movie, I
will say, I think that this movie has a lot
going on. It has a lot going on, but I'm
really excited to talk about it because we've been talking
about a lot of movies in this kind of subcategory

(10:33):
this year. We talked about Tootsie. We talked about Mrs.
Doubtfire again. We've talked about a lot of male characters
disguising themselves as women for a plot-based reason.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
Some Like It Hot, which we covered a few years prior.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
This is a very unique entry. into that and i
don't know i think that would i say it's one
of my favorites certainly not but it's doing more than
i expected caitlin what's your history with white chicks not
not the like you know not the not the royal
white chicks but the movie white chicks.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
Um right my history with the movie white chicks is
that i had never seen it before prepping for this
episode But I remember the marketing for this movie because
this movie was marketed to all hell.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
This movie had trailer. Yeah, it's the kind of movie
you remember the trailer moments when you watch it. Yes.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
And probably one of the reasons I didn't see it
because I was watching the scary movies, you know, I
at the time would have considered myself a fan of.
the Wayne brothers movies, but it was the eyes. I,
in the trailer, I was like, what the hell is
going on? The eyes were terrifying. I couldn't get past it.

(11:46):
I was very disturbed. So yeah, I just didn't see it.
Never got around to it until now. But I mean, this,
this is a rich text. There's a lot to talk about.
I don't, I don't have many nice things to say
about this movie, but It's trying to do something.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
That's what I think. Yeah, it's a swing. It's a swing.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Well, why don't we take a quick break and then
we'll come back for the aforementioned recap.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
And we're back. Quick survey because I'm curious. Does everyone
have a favorite Wayans Brothers movie? I guess that's kind
of broad because my favorite is not directed by a Wayans.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
What's your favorite?

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Major Pain. Oh. I still haven't seen that one either.

Speaker 4 (12:42):
I don't know if I've seen that one either.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
I can't vouch for it, but I know that I've
seen it many times and I liked it.

Speaker 4 (12:49):
I don't think that there are a lot of Wayans
Brothers movies made before a certain year that I could
vouch for.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yes. Strictly based on enjoyment.

Speaker 4 (12:57):
I'll be honest with you, White Chicks might be my
favorite one.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
I mean, biannually.

Speaker 4 (13:02):
It's not necessarily because I'm like, whoa, this changed cinema.
I need to, you know, rewatch this masterpiece. But I
guess it just reminds me of a certain time in
my life.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Sure. You know?

Speaker 2 (13:15):
This is not a Wayans Brothers movie at all, but
it does star one of the Wayans Brothers, Marlon Wayans,
who is also in this movie, which is the movie
Requiem for a Dream.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
Oh, my God.

Speaker 4 (13:29):
I totally forgot he was in that.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
He's in it. I've never seen that.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
It is so tonally different than probably everything else he's in.
But you realize like, oh, he's got range.

Speaker 4 (13:41):
Yeah, Requiem for a Dream and Requiem. Like the pothead
guy in Scary Movie.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Right.

Speaker 4 (13:46):
And a white woman.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
And a woman. Give this guy an Oscar.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
The three kinds of characters. I am. I mean, that
is just like something that never stops impressing the world,
including me. I'm a part of the world. When a
comedian takes a dramatic turn and it works, people love
that shit. They love it.

Speaker 4 (14:06):
More power to them. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
All right. Well, here's the story of. White Chicks.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
I'm so excited to hear you describe.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
I can't wait.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
This is going to be a poem.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Okay, here we go. We meet two brothers, Marcus and
Kevin Copeland, played by real life brothers, Marlon and Sean Wayans, respectively.
Both are FBI agents who are working undercover. And we'll
talk about the racist caricatures they're doing at the very

(14:38):
beginning of the movie.

Speaker 4 (14:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
And sprinkled throughout.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yes. They are trying to bust a few drug dealers,
but they go after the wrong guys and they mess
everything up. There's a whole, oh, is it ice cream?
Is it cocaine? And their FBI chief is pissed at
them for blowing this operation.

Speaker 4 (14:59):
Kind of an incredible fight scene just, like, off the jump.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
It's pretty fun.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
Like, top of the movie. Like, ice cream everywhere. It's
kind of fun.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
It is fun. Yeah, I feel like that was more
of a thing. Maybe I'm making shit up. But that
felt like more of a thing in, like, the 80s
through 2000s. Like, comedies with big action set pieces.

Speaker 4 (15:19):
Yeah, they're like, okay, let's blow... A million dollars in
the first two and a half minutes?

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Let's do it.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
Just see.

Speaker 4 (15:26):
Or you're graphing this fight scene.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
This movie makes so much more sense when you know
that it is basically a blank check movie off of
the first two scary movies. They could have done... Literally anything.
And it is fascinating that they choose to do this.

Speaker 4 (15:41):
And they sure did.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
I mean, they had a $ 37 million budget, which doesn't
sound that much by today's standards. But for a comedy
in the early 2000s, that was a pretty sizable budget. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Anyway, so they mess up this drug bust and their
chief says that if they screw up again, they're fired.
So the stakes are high.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
Marcus goes home. We meet his wife, Gina.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
And boy, is this a classic his wife character. We'll
get into it. She is nagging him.

Speaker 4 (16:14):
She leans all the way in, too.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
She is... Like, down to the outfit choices are fascinating.
They heavily imply she has nothing to do in her
life but worry about where her husband is.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
And assume that he's cheating on her 24-7.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
But he'd never cheat on her, babe.

Speaker 4 (16:33):
No.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
He's too busy impersonating Paris Hilton.

Speaker 4 (16:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
So we meet her. She'll come back later on. But
then we cut to Marcus and Kevin... going into the
FBI office, there's a kidnapper on the loose and the
FBI believes this kidnapper's next victims are the Wilson sisters,
Brittany and Tiffany, socialites, daughters of some rich guy who

(17:03):
owns a cruise line, Paris Hilton types, like you said, Jamie.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
I mean, yeah, it's like so pulled because I believe
like The Simple Life was airing when this.

Speaker 4 (17:12):
Movie came out. Topical in a big way. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
So the FBI is going to keep their eye on
these sisters to make sure they're safe and also try
to catch the kidnapper. So I don't know if it's
like they're going to like just kind of hover over them,
using them as bait to try to lure in the kidnapper.
It's something like that.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Yeah, I have to believe. And I did not in
all of the research that I did, I did not
look into like if there are deleted scenes. There has
to be a scene deleted here because they jumped to
the conclusion that they have no choice but to do this. Like,
it's not even a conversation. He's like, I know what
we have to do. Josh, he just shows up and then, yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yeah, there's some story logic there. questions we could have.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
I kind of think that they probably just weren't expecting
their audience to really ask that many questions. And you
know what? That's the first time I've ever thought about it.
So they were maybe great.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Well, there you go.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
So I come to this place to ask these questions.
But also it's like, yeah, if you're sitting in the theater,
you're just kind of like TikTok, where are the white chicks?

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Anything that happens, you're like, exactly.

Speaker 4 (18:21):
It's so true.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah. But there are so many fun, like little story
logic things where they're like, okay, stay in this hotel
all weekend. And The girls are just like, yeah, for sure.
Totally makes sense.

Speaker 4 (18:33):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
It's great.

Speaker 4 (18:36):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
So the FBI is trying to catch this kidnapper. The
prime suspect is this guy named Ted Burton. a previous
associate of rich guy Wilson, but he lost his fortune.
And so they think that this guy wants revenge or something. Again,
it's a little foggy, but Marcus and Kevin are assigned

(18:57):
to the case and they go and pick up the
Wilson sisters who are these blonde haired, blue eyed, like
bimbo types, parentheses pejorative, And they are headed to the
Hamptons for this big weekend that they're super excited for.
It's this huge deal, but on the way there's this

(19:20):
whole mishap with one of the sisters' dogs and they
get into a minor car accident and each of the
sisters gets a small scratch on their face and they
freak out. They're like, we can't go to the Hamptons
looking like this. But for reasons, the FBI needs them

(19:41):
to go to the Hamptons that weekend.

Speaker 4 (19:43):
To lure the kidnapper.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
And I do appreciate, I forget which brother says this, but.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
he's like this weekend is so important to them I'm
like wow what wild empathy for them I think that's
the closest we get to reasoning and I kind of
love that where he's like no these girls need to
impress people at the Hamptons we have no choice we
have to become white chicks right now It's great.

Speaker 4 (20:09):
I also do think low-key that if they went back
to their chief and they were like, hey, we got
into an accident now. We like fucked us all up.
Maybe they would be fired.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Again, the stakes are high.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
The stakes are high for them.

Speaker 4 (20:20):
Right.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
So Marcus and Kevin, like you said, Jamie, decide to
pretend to be these two sisters and go to the
Hamptons in their place. And a team of makeup artists
and stylists and stuff like that show up to turn
these two black men into two white chicks. There's wigs, makeup,

(20:48):
fake boobs, blue eye contacts that are absolutely terrifying, body
paint to lighten their skin. The whole works. And the
result is such that you really have to suspend your
disbelief that anyone else, any other character in the entire
movie would believe. mistake them yeah which is like part

(21:09):
of the part of the white.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
Chicks of it all like sure that's the fun yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
Yeah The fact that everyone at the white supremacy lobotomy
club is like, wow, good to see you. It's fun.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
Some of them do get a little suspicious, but it's
easily brushed away, explained away.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Because they're often chalking it up to cosmetic procedures that
these Wilson sisters say that they've gotten.

Speaker 4 (21:35):
The knee lengthening.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yes, which is pretty funny. That's the Pedro Pascal surgery from... Materialists.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
It's true. It's true. It's the legs, isn't it? One
of the most iconic lines of the 2020s.

Speaker 4 (21:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
Okay, so Kevin and Marcus arrive in....

Speaker 2 (21:55):
The Hamptons as Brittany and Tiffany. Although I don't, I
forget which brother is supposed to be which sister, but
I don't think it matters.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Kevin's Brittany, Marcus's Tiffany.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Feel free to forget that.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
I certainly will. Although I might've clarified it later in
my notes. We'll find out. Anyway, they arrive in the
Hamptons and now they're suddenly being hit on by a
bunch of men, which they do not appreciate, but also
because they are perceived as white and They realize that
they can flex that privilege, and so they do the
whole Karen, like, let me speak to your manager thing

(22:32):
as they're checking into the hotel.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Those bits I thought were very fun is when they're
at the hotel desk and he is writing the letter
where he's like.

Speaker 4 (22:40):
Dear Mr. Royal Hampton, I am a white.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
Woman in America.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
It's a great joke.

Speaker 4 (22:48):
It's truly like, it's one of my vocal stems. I
say it to myself all the time.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
When this movie hits, it hits.

Speaker 4 (22:56):
It sure does. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
I believe there's also a Shrek reference in this scene,
if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
There is. Shrek Mania was at an all-time high. It
was 2004. It is wild to me. I hate that
I can remember I have like Master of Disguise recall
like this. But how quickly, like Master of Disguise came
out the year after Shrek and their Shrek references. We
really cannot overstate the cultural impact of that.

Speaker 4 (23:19):
It was moving fast.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
Immediate.

Speaker 4 (23:21):
I do remember the Shrek line, if you need that.
That was something that I reflected upon when I was
rewatching this movie to come on this podcast, was that
I know every line in the movie.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
I believe it.

Speaker 4 (23:34):
I asked the doctor to make me look like Gwyneth Paltrow,
and the doctor made me look like fucking Shrek.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Which, okay, another Shrek parallel here. I couldn't help but
think that when these guys are in disguise as the
white chicks and they're doing like a falsetto voice, they
sound like Gingy. From Shrek.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
Wow. To me. I wonder if Gingy was on the
vision board.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
I hope so.

Speaker 4 (24:04):
I hope they made a vision board.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
I hope there was a vision board.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
As part of transforming into white women, I hope that
they made a vision board.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Okay, so they check into the hotel in the Hamptons
for this big weekend. They are greeted by friends of
the Wilson sisters. These are three white women named Karen, Lisa,
and Tori. who don't seem to notice that these are
not visibly the sisters but again they're like oh you

(24:33):
got collagen you you got taller via knee surgery yeah
etc and then they all go to a reception thing
at the hotel hosted by a rich guy named warren
vandergeld played by john herd aka the dad from home alone.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Oh wow didn't yeah didn't clock that wow that's him.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
His daughters are also there. This is Megan and Heather Vandergeld,
who are the Wilson sisters' sworn enemies.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
They're very much bully.jpg type characters.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yes. And these two sets of sisters do a bunch
of yo mama jokes at each other. Then there's an
extended joke. I think this is Tiffany has to take
an enormous dump because Marcus. Oh, yeah, it is Marcus
who is Tiffany. Marcus is lactose intolerant and he was

(25:33):
eating a bunch of quiche quiches. With a bunch of
cheese in them. Say what you.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
Will about the protracted shit joke. They set it up.
They sure do.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
It's not for no reason. He's lactose intolerant.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Chekhov's lactose intolerance.

Speaker 4 (25:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
So while that's happening, the other sister, Brittany, who again,
this is Kevin, is chatting up a news anchor or reporter.
I forget her job exactly, but her name is Denise Porter.
Kevin thinks she is cute. Also, Terry Crews is there.

(26:11):
His character is a basketball star and he takes an
interest in Tiffany and starts sexually harassing her. We'll talk
more about that. But then the white chicks and their friends, Karen, Lisa,
and Tori, Leave to go shopping for outfits for an

(26:33):
event that night, which the thing that women be. Women
be shopping, number one.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
They do be shopping.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
Number two, there's a moment in this scene that is
also very similar to a moment in Titanic, which... Titanic
is referenced later in the movie, so we have a
Shrek reference and a Titanic reference.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
So in many ways, we have to give this movie
perfect marks.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
That's so true.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
And we could even end the episode now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (26:57):
And it's been really great to be here.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (27:00):
Yeah, thank you guys so much.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
No, but there's a scene where, okay, so there's some
event later that night, some big charity auction dinner, and
the friends are like, Brittany, Tiffany, what are you wearing?
And the sisters look down at their outfits and they're like,
I don't know this. Similar to how Jack Dawson in
Titanic says, I don't know, I guess I'll wear this

(27:22):
to dinner. And then Kathy Bates says, silly boy, you
can't do that. Similar thing happens in this movie. And
so the friends take the Wilson sisters shopping. Also, there's
a On the way to the mall or whatever, there's
a scene where Brittany and Tiffany, they're singing along to

(27:45):
a hip hop song and they say the N word.
And the other three white women are like, oh, yeah,
we can do it, too.

Speaker 4 (27:53):
So then I will say, OK, I got a lot
to say about this scene. We'll talk more about it later.
But at first, the white women are like, no, you
can't say that. And the white chicks, we'll refer to
them white woman and white chicks because it's the title.
But the white chicks are like, well, no one's around.
And then the white woman immediately concede their point and

(28:15):
say the N-word no less than five times. Busy Phillips,
we have to talk because that was crazy. But it
was 2004. It was a different time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
It really does kind of just slide right out, doesn't it?

Speaker 4 (28:28):
No less than five times. It's like they said it
all the time, which makes me be a little suspicious.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
You really have to question it. They go shopping. There's
this whole trying to fit into clothes hijinks montage kind
of thing.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah. One of the academic pieces I read for this
does sort of break down by trope. Like this subgenre
that we were talking about at the beginning, like there's
always kind of like five or six kinds of scenes
or scenarios that these characters end up in. And this
movie does all of it. And I think because we

(29:06):
just watched. Tootsie and Mrs. Doubtfire, it's like extra on
my mind of like, Oh, there it is. There it is.

Speaker 4 (29:11):
There it is.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
There it is.

Speaker 4 (29:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
The dressing room is one of, is one of the
scenes that happens in, in this movie.

Speaker 4 (29:16):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
I clocked that as well.

Speaker 4 (29:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Then we cut to the charity auction event where they
are auctioning off young women to whatever rich guys want
to bid on them. And this includes one of the
white chicks, Tiffany and, Terry Crews, quote unquote, buys her.
And so he will be taking her on a date

(29:41):
later on. And again, use of pronouns in this discussion
is going to be hard because these are cis men
disguising themselves as, again, white chicks. So I guess when
we're talking about them presenting as white chicks, I'll use
the she, her pronouns, knowing full well that these are

(30:01):
cis men in disguise.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah. It's complicated. The whole thing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Anyway, that night, Brittany slash Kevin and Tiffany slash Marcus
go to their hotel room and they de-white chick themselves.
But then the three white women knock on their door
for a slumber party. So they have to white chick
themselves up again. And they have a little chat and

(30:26):
a little slumber party. A little later, two men come
into the room. One of the white chicks thinks that
these are the men who were there to kidnap the
Wilson sisters. So they get beat up. But it turns
out that they're strippers. And we're laughing. Or we're supposed
to be.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
Never seen that before.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
This is, yeah, one of the classic tropes of movies
like this where the men in disguise realize that women
might not be hysterical. They might just seem hysterical. But
perhaps they contain more. But they're still hysterical.

Speaker 4 (31:07):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
But maybe there's reasoning behind it. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
So the next day, all of the gals go to
the beach. Kevin takes off his white chick getup to
approach Denise, the reporter that he's had his eye on.
And he asks her out for a date that night.
He's pretending to be Terry Crews' character. What's his name? Latrell,

(31:34):
I think.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
Which is occurring to me now. It's like, she's a
journalist and she didn't... All right.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
She doesn't know him.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Seems like Terry Crews' character is famous, right?

Speaker 4 (31:44):
Well, also, no one in this world recognizes that the
Wayans brothers are men.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
That's true.

Speaker 4 (31:50):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
This is kind of like a Shyamalan, like the Hamptons'
face blindness. Anyone in the Hamptons are face blind.

Speaker 4 (31:59):
Everyone in the Hamptons at this point got LASIK surgery,
and they were part of the 2% to 5% that
it goes poorly for.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
Okay, so Kevin, looking like himself but pretending to be
the pro ball player who is like Terry Crews' character's
real identity, takes Denise out on a date. He goes
to Terry Crews' character's house. It goes horribly wrong for
a while. There's lots of hijinks. But then eventually.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
It's a Titanic reference.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
But it works out.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
That's where the Titanic reference is. And then eventually they're vibing.
And she tells him some information... about Ted Burton, the
suspect in this kidnapping case that the brothers are working on.
And what they thought was his motive for kidnapping people
doesn't end up being true. Denise reveals this. So maybe

(32:53):
he's not the kidnapper after all, but who is?

Speaker 1 (32:58):
And honestly, the answer, I couldn't care less. I'm like,
bring back the white chicks. I don't care.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah. Well, we're about to see a white chick because
while that date is happening, Terry Crews has taken Tiffany
on a date. And Tiffany, Marcus as Tiffany, is trying
to be as unappealing as possible, like eating a bunch
of messy, stinky food, having body hair, farting. But Terry

(33:28):
Crews loves all of it. Mm-hmm. Then everyone convenes at
a dance club later that night. There's a scene where
there's a dance-off between the Vandergeld sisters and their friends.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Oh, my God. The most 2004 dance-off of all time.

Speaker 4 (33:49):
It's so bad. It's, like, really, really upsetting.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
It's wild. I had to– I watched it. I paused it.
I called Grant into the room and teared into it.

Speaker 4 (34:00):
I also like, why is it a Run DMC song? Like,
it's just so.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
It's so bizarre. I kind of love it.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
So what transpires here is Karen, Lisa, and Tori are
dancing against the Vandergeld sisters and the white women, the
friends of the Wilson sisters, they lose and they're humiliated until...
tiffany and britney join in and they start break dancing.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
Big trailer moment i vividly remember the break dancing in
the trailer.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yes and they hand the vandergeld sisters asses to them
and this doesn't it says no bearing on the plot
but that's okay then we cut to Karen drunkenly letting
it slip that Warren Vandergeld and his family are not

(34:54):
actually rich, or at least aren't anymore. In fact, they're broke.
So Marcus and Kevin are like, hmm, that's interesting. The
next day, Marcus's wife Gina, who still thinks that Marcus
is cheating on her, shows up at the hotel in
the Hamptons and says, catches Marcus with another woman, a.k.a. Brittany, a.k.a. Kevin.

(35:20):
So Gina storms out. This scene ends on a very
homophobic slash transphobic button.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Another hallmark of this genre, unfortunately. For sure. And Gina
also immediately suffering from bad LASIK the moment she arrives.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
Yes, of course. Now, meanwhile, the real LASIK Tiffany and
Brittany Wilson see photos of themselves on page six, or
rather photos of their imposters. So they decide to go
to the Hamptons to confront them, I guess, or set
the record straight.

Speaker 4 (35:57):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
I did laugh at the part where they're like, We've
been cloned! That was pretty funny. So the real Wilson
sisters head to the Hamptons, but they are apprehended by
a couple of FBI agents, colleagues of the Copeland brothers
who we've seen previously, because they think that these sisters

(36:20):
are frauds and that the ones that Marcus and Kevin
are pretending to be are the real Wilson sisters. There
is a scene where the real sisters are stripped down
because like the FBI agents are trying to prove that
they're not quote unquote real women.

Speaker 4 (36:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
And that scene is a nightmare from like five different angles.

Speaker 4 (36:42):
Yeah. There's layers to how truly bad it is.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah. Yes.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
But this makes the FBI agents and the chiefs. realize
that the other Wilson sisters who are already in the
Hamptons are actually Marcus and Kevin posing as the sisters.
So the chief fires the Copeland brothers, but they decide

(37:07):
to continue working the case anyway, especially because the FBI
is going after the wrong guy. They still think Ted
Burton is the kidnapper. But the real kidnappers are Warren
Vandergeld and then some other guy who.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
You're just like, huh? Like some frat bro who was
established like an hour ago. You're like, all right, whatever.
Movie's got to end sometime. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
So Kevin and Marcus become white chicks again. They head
to a fashion show to.
I guess they're going to try to catch Warren Vandergeld. Again,
I've kind of lost the plot at this point. But
they end up on the catwalk as the Wilson sisters.

(37:57):
And so do the real Wilson sisters. So hijinks ensue.
All this wacky stuff happens. The Vandergeld sisters end up
with red paint spilled all over them because they were
going to pull, like, a carry at prom. A carry? Stunt,
but it backfires and they get the paint poured on them.

(38:20):
Who knows? But as all of this is happening, the
bad guys kidnap the real Brittany and Tiffany Wilson. So
Marcus and Kevin still in disguise. go after them. There's
a bunch of chaos. And they eventually expose Vandergeld as
the kidnapper. And then finally, Marcus and Kevin take off

(38:41):
their white chick disguises. And a bunch of people are like,
what in the hell? Such as Terry Crews, Denise, Gina,
the three white woman friends. Everyone is like, I had
no idea that the people I've been looking at this
whole time were not white women. And then Kevin and

(39:03):
Marcus's boss rehires them, so their jobs are saved. Kevin,
as his real self, asks out Denise, and she's like,
hubba hubba.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Denise, we need to have a talk, Denise. Oh, my God.

Speaker 4 (39:19):
She's like, none of this bothered me. Let's go out.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
Poor Denise.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yes. And then Marcus apologizes to his wife, Gina.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
What?

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Denise's apology? I know. Fans of Denise want to know.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Truly. But Marcus does apologize at least to Gina for
not paying enough attention to her or not appreciating her enough.
And then the movie ends with the three white women
approaching the brothers to be like, we liked the Wilson
sisters so much more when they were you, so let's
all go shopping sometime.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
And they're like, yes, we're definitely going to hang out.

Speaker 4 (39:59):
We come from the same world. We have a lot
in common.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
So that's the movie.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Let's take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss.
And we're back.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
And we're back. Taylor, is there anywhere you want to
jump off? No pressure.

Speaker 4 (40:26):
Where do we even begin? Where do we even begin?
I'm trying to be like, should I go chronologically? Should
I go macro to micro? Because I got a couple.
Which works better for y'all? A guest choice.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
It's really up to you, yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:39):
Oh, boy. Okay. I'll just pick my few highlights that
I got, and we can maybe jump off from there.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
Great.

Speaker 4 (40:45):
I think that kind of off the bat... Like they're like, okay,
two black men and they work for the FBI. Yes.
You know what I mean? They're like, okay, so they're cops,
but like advanced cops, advanced cops. And not only are
they black men who are also cops, they're also incompetent.
So add that to the list. They really suck and
they're like about to lose their jobs. And their kind

(41:08):
of enemies in the system of the FBI are their boss,
who is also a black man, but who is confident,
but he's older. And also they're two like, I don't
know if they're partners, but I guess it's like two
other partners who are a white man and a Latino man.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (41:23):
I think one of my main theses is that it's like,
you can tell that like black people had a big
hand in this movie being made. And there are lots
of like little Easter eggs throughout the whole movie that
indicate that. And then there's one main one where one
major detractor from that where it's like, why did you
let Busy Phillips say the N word five times? But

(41:43):
I digress. I guess it's like when I, I mean,
not when I first saw it because I was a child,
but like when I just did this rewatch of it,
I'm like, oh, there's like some, there are like racial
aspects being involved in this movie and not in the
obvious ways, like the ways that Terry Crews is very
clearly searching for a white woman and doesn't have any
interest in dating anyone else besides a white woman.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
I want to talk more about him, but we'll get there.

Speaker 4 (42:06):
We can do it right now. We can do it
right now.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Well, that was one of the things that sort of
struck me. And this is not the first time we
have seen this, which is humor that is punching down
toward a racially marginalized person by another racially marginalized person,
whether it's another character in the movie or the screenwriter

(42:32):
writing the jokes or whatever. Because I remember a conversation
we had on the 40-year-old virgin episode.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
It really is all these 2000s movies. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Where in that movie, one of the running bits is
two non-white characters are being super racist toward each other
and making racist jokes toward each other. And that is
always presented as like, ha ha ha, isn't it so
funny that these non-white characters are are being racist. See,
not just white people are racist. It's also people of

(43:06):
color can be racist to each other too.

Speaker 4 (43:07):
Which kind of is, I mean, it's in the first
scene of this movie. You mentioned it where it's just like, okay,
two things. Macro, they must have had a wild makeup budget,
a wild makeup costuming budget because they are also in
white chick style, like wigs, makeup, masks to play two
older Latino men running a bodega when they.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
For characters who never come back. Yeah, I feel like
they're playing into a bunch of different... It's kind of
like a charcuterie of cultural tropes that they're playing into
in that opening. I don't even know what they're going for.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Because I... And it's so weird. This is such a
hard conversation to have because when a character is doing
a racist caricature of someone else, me as the audience
receiving this is like... Because I thought they were doing
caricatures of Indian men based on the way they were
styled But one of them is speaking Spanish. So I

(44:02):
was like, what is happening here? Not to say that
Indian people can't speak Spanish, obviously.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Sure.

Speaker 4 (44:08):
No, but he's speaking with like a pretty offensive, like,
I speak English as a second language and Spanish as
a first accent. And also, another thing to note is
that they did not even give that man lines to
speak in actual Spanish. Not that they couldn't find somebody,
but he literally sings La Bamba as one of the lines.
He sings Guantanamera as like one of the lines. It's like,

(44:29):
He's speaking Spanish, but he's speaking it in like lines
from famous songs that are in Spanish that people know.
Or I'm like, couldn't they have just written him some lines?
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
I don't know. Anything.

Speaker 4 (44:41):
All very offensive.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
For sure. So, oh my God, there's so much to unpack.
So to go back to the 40-year-old virgin thing, that
was a thing where, and the difference here is that
that movie was written and directed by white people. So
the discussion we had there was, white people presenting, people
of color being racist toward each other as if to say,

(45:03):
you know.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
It's very like, everybody does it.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Everybody can be racist.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
I feel like it was a very prominent sort of
like thing you would hear a lot during that time period.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
Yeah, it was like the South Park, the South Park motto. Like,
we're not racist. We hate everybody.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
We hate everybody equally.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
But this movie is written and directed by black men. So,
and we have all of these examples of characters of
color being racist to each other or doing these racist caricatures,
including the way that the Terry Crews character is presented
in the sense that all of these harmful stereotypes about

(45:41):
black people and about black men specifically are being deployed
here in the sense that like black men are sexually aggressive.
They have huge penises. They love white women and, We
see him try to drug a woman's drink, like all
of these disgusting things presented as a joke without commentary.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
And it's it's I had a hard time with this
character because I I'm curious what you both think. Like,
I felt like what they were. kind of signaling with
his character is like, this is the like, quote unquote,
wrong kind of black man.

Speaker 4 (46:21):
Right.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Like, and that the FBI agents, the brothers are the
right kind of black man. But the way that they
do that is by strictly presenting Terry Crews in this
very like, tropey with a lot of specificity too. Like
the way that, um, I forget which, uh, white chick
that maybe Tiffany, I don't remember one of them. Um,

(46:44):
But she is making King Kong references. There's a lot
of specificity in the way that those tropes... The tropes
are very, very, very intentional. And like you're saying, Caitlin,
not commented on. And they also give Terry Crews at
the end... And I want to talk further into the
episode how this movie is in conversation with a bunch

(47:07):
of movies with similar premises. But they sort of give
Terry Crews... the nobody's perfect line.

Speaker 4 (47:14):
Yeah. I was going to say from, yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
From some like it hot.

Speaker 4 (47:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
But it's, it's flipped so that he is not upset
that he was a man, but that he was black. Right. Like,
so it's just like, there's, I honestly don't even know
how to talk about that character. There's so much going on.

Speaker 4 (47:30):
And let's not forget the extremely charming line that is
not only super racially offensive. It's also super ableist. Uh,
once you go black, you are going to need a wheelchair.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:40):
And they say it more than once.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
Yeah, for sure. Followed by a woman in a wheelchair
who presumably recently had sex with that Terry Crews character
and then is like shoved out of the frame in
a like violent.

Speaker 4 (47:54):
She enters the frame. She says, hi, Latrell. And then
somebody shoves her off. They were like, how can we
make this so bad?

Speaker 1 (48:03):
And that is, if I'm remembering correctly, the only disabled
character we see the entire movie. Yes. Which again is
like not shocking to me for a broad comedy coming
out this particular year, but it's like all, all of
the things that you would find in a very broad
2004 movie are present here.

Speaker 4 (48:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
The Terry Crews character, like I think that a lot
of people like only kind of remember the Vanessa Carlton bit,
which is, which is a fun, which is fine.

Speaker 4 (48:32):
It's maybe like the most harmless scene in the entire
movie is just him singing that song.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Also maybe one of the most iconic like that sure
yes for sure yeah and that's because of Terry like
Terry Crews is is selling it sure in in that scene.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Yeah I think that I had a bunch of um
cases in this movie of some jokes that worked for
me because they were doing something that like really no
other movie like this does, which is like commenting very
explicitly on race and class, which most movies that, I mean,

(49:06):
if we're talking about, uh, it's, it's mostly white guys
who are in, I guess, drag, but it's also, that
depends on how you define drag. but they're in drag
for most of the movie kind of only for pretty
selfish reasons and the point like I think especially Tootsie
a movie I just like cannot stand is like the

(49:26):
worst version of it where it happens in a world
where white men in their 40s can't get acting jobs.
And you know who can? White women in their 50s.
You know, just like this world that doesn't exist. And like,
I do appreciate, I think in the context of other
movies like this, it's certainly not as good as Some
Like It Hot, which I think is still kind of

(49:46):
like the uncontested best version of this premise. But I
think it's at least trying to, like some of the
jokes hit because they're doing more than this premise would
normally do. And I think it also makes all the
same mistakes in terms of homophobia, in terms of transphobia,
and in terms of misogyny that all of those movies

(50:07):
also do. So it's tricky. I'm not trying to hand
it to white chicks necessarily, but I do think that
it is very unique because most of these other movies
we're talking about, like Mrs. Doubtfire, like Some Like It Hot,
like Tootsie, are not really attempting to comment on, certainly
not race, And usually not class either.

Speaker 4 (50:29):
Yeah. There's a, there's a scene where they're first showing
up at the hotel and they are realizing, like you mentioned, Caitlin,
that not only are they like, oh shit, we're men
and we're dressed as women. So we have to like
act accordingly. Like if a man is hitting on us,
we can't use our man voices. We have to like
sound like women. And also the next, like the very
next thing that happens is that the other FBI agents,

(50:50):
they're like enemies come up to them and ask, you know, like, oh, hi,
welcome to the hotel. Like we're here to help you.
And they immediately realize that they can mistreat those other
FBI agents. So I don't know if it's Tiffany or Brittany, but...
hands her chihuahua in a little bag to the smaller
of the FBI agents and is like, yeah, can you

(51:12):
clean up her bag? She just pooped everywhere. Thank you,
Rico Suave, or something like that, which is like, okay,
so now this is a black man dressed as a
white woman realizing they can use their white woman-ness to
be a little racist and classist toward these FBI agents
who they see as below them, but they're also... black
men dressed as white women doing that you know it's
like it is a little kind of it's like subversive

(51:34):
in a way that i don't think they meant it
to be uh yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
Because they're when they're dressed as the white women the
white chicks they're modeling their behavior from the two actual
real rich white women who when marcus and kevin approached
them to pick them up for the first time the
sisters are like, ooh, get away from us. We already
donated to.

Speaker 4 (51:55):
We already donated, yeah, to the United Negro College Fund,
I actually think is the specific reference they make, which
is like, that's another little sprinkle that this was made
by Black people because there's absolutely no way that any
random white woman on the street would have known what
the organization is.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
Right, and certainly not have donated to it.

Speaker 4 (52:11):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
So I don't even mind, I guess, when them posing
as the rich white women I mean, I mind it
in the grand scheme of things, but in the context
of this, when they are being horrible and racist... It's
like commentary.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
It's commentary.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Yeah, it's commentary on the way rich white women often behave.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
It is so joke to joke in this movie, though,
because it's like other times, like in the opening sequence,
they're just being racist. Yeah, for sure. They're just being racist. Yeah,
but like there are certain scenes where it's like they're...
In the space of the same scene, which is why
you're like, oh, rich text, rich text. What do you
do with it? In the space of the same scene,
they're both kind of like horrified by being treated like women.

Speaker 4 (52:58):
Right.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Like objectified by men.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
But they're also kind of experiencing this fantasy scenario of
experiencing white privilege. And so it's like always multiple, like
five different things going on. Some of it is like interesting.
Some of it sucks because. And it's all.

Speaker 4 (53:15):
A lot of it sucks.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
A lot of it sucks. But it's like, there's really
not another movie like it. I think that's what I
just kept having to be like, there is only one
White Chicks.

Speaker 4 (53:25):
There truly is not.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Well, that was my big thesis, is that there are
so many opportunities to comment on men experiencing misogyny for
the first time, because they're being perceived as women, and
them experiencing the privilege of being white for the first time.
And the movie does like a little bit of each thing.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
And then kind of drops it.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
Pretty much drops it.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
And kind of squanders the opportunities.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
And then the other thing is like, I feel like
another big thing I look out for with movies that
have this premise are how are the women that surround
these characters, like the characters in drag, how are they
characterized and, Are we getting an inner life or are
we not? And in this, I think they probably thought

(54:15):
they were giving characters an inner life, but they definitely weren't.
They really thought they were doing something with that sleepover scene,
I think. They really did.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Wait, okay.

Speaker 4 (54:24):
Can we talk about the sleepover scene really quickly?

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Let's do it.

Speaker 4 (54:27):
So that was the scene that I was talking about
at the top of this episode.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
I was going to ask.

Speaker 4 (54:31):
Where, yeah, my eyes were covered, but only for one part.
The stripper scene wasn't really a problem, I guess, because
they were just like getting beat up. But there was
a scene that I think was cut from some DVD
versions of this movie or maybe some like definitely the
TV version. But they all get dildos.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Oh, I did not see that. I did not see that.

Speaker 4 (54:52):
You didn't see it. Okay. They all get dildos out
and do kind of like a, oh, like show us
how you do your like, you know, how you like
deep throat. And they ask one of the men who
was dressed as the white chicks. And he obviously doesn't
know what to do with it. So it's actually, it's
like a funny scene now that I've watched it because
he like wiggles it in his face and is like,
you know, it's like, it's very childish and like, you know,

(55:13):
teenage boy. Sure. But. I was wondering if you guys saw.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
That scene because- No, I didn't know that existed.

Speaker 4 (55:19):
They did cut it from a lot. And especially, it
certainly was not in the TNT made for TV version.
I was going to say, if you get a chance,
go see if you can find it, but it's not.
Don't do that. Don't do that.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
I'm running. Wait, I need to go.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
We have to do it for our job. But no,
whatever version is on Netflix, that scene is not in
the Netflix version.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Did not make the cut.

Speaker 4 (55:40):
Yeah, in the original one. In the original one, it's
on there. And, you know, I mean, more power to
my cousins for- knowing that I probably shouldn't have been
exposed to that at that time.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
But to your point, Jamie, that slumber party scene, there's
a moment where the Busy Phillips character, is her name Karen?
I got them all confused.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
I honestly was just like, Busy Phillips. Busy Phillips.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
She's lamenting about how a man that she likes isn't
giving her the respect she feels she deserves and how
she wishes how men... could trade places with women just
to see what women have to put up with. And
Kevin and Marcus, as Brittany and Tiffany, are like, huh,

(56:23):
that's interesting. And then there are a couple other moments
that you were alluding to, Jamie, that are staples of
this this premise of like men going in disguise as women,
they always realize how uncomfortable women's clothing is. There's often
not a lot of commentary beyond that as far as like, well,

(56:46):
why it is often designed to be uncomfortable. because it's
appealing to the male gaze with high heels and constrictive, form-fitting,
super tight clothing and all that kind of stuff. So
it's more just noticing a thing and then presenting it
rather than examining it more closely, which is almost always

(57:07):
what happens when men try to make movies about women.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Well, and in this one, they had an op... It
was a miss. It was a close miss. Mm-hmm. I
don't know why I'm rooting for the white chick like this.
But it was a close miss. I was like, oh, guys,
so close. Where they're in the... Again, I don't know
which white chick, but they're in the dressing room. And

(57:31):
one of the white chicks... And every woman in this
movie is hysterical, essentially. With the exception of the journalist.
The thing with her is the fact that she's a
journalist doesn't matter. Anyways, every woman is hysterical. And there's
one of the white women... there's a long kind of
leering shot of her body. And then the joke is
that she hates her body. She thinks that she quote

(57:54):
unquote looks fat. She like is disgusted with herself. She's
pointing out everything she thinks is wrong with her. And
then that's just sort of the whole joke. And again,
you're like, well, there's, there's an opportunity that kind of
fails to go anywhere. It's like, they're, they're presenting like,
I don't know, they're, they're showing things that are I

(58:15):
don't want to say real, but like, you know, women
are conditioned to hate their own bodies. And like this
is 2004. Women were socially conditioned to be very, very
thin at that time.

Speaker 4 (58:26):
They also should, like you said, Jamie, they like show
this long shot of her body and she has like
a quote unquote normal body by 2004 standards even. Like
she's like objectively thin.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:37):
And I think they actually do that shot of her.
to like iterate that she is thin but that she's
so hysterical as like a woman that she thinks she's
so fat and like makes all these own comments about
her body which is like like you said very near
miss you know like yeah you're right there if we had.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Just wondered why a woman would think that about herself.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
Right because there there are a lot of people who
are thin who have body dysmorphia and that often leads
to an eating disorder and unfortunately.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
Like I think that's like a relevant thing to be
talking about in the year 2026. For sure.

Speaker 4 (59:15):
Circled back around.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
ED culture is back. It is 2004 again in so
many ways.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
Yes, for sure. And then there's another particularly hysterical character
in Gina, Marcus's wife.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
Oh, boy.

Speaker 2 (59:28):
We already talked about a little bit, but she is
obsessed with the idea that her husband is cheating on
her and she is presented in the most unreasonable way imaginable,
where there is no way he could be cheating on
her with the timeline.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
It's like dated even for 2004.

Speaker 4 (59:47):
It really is.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
There's not even a suggestion that she has.

Speaker 4 (59:51):
Any reason to suspect. Oh, yeah. Also, yeah. Anything else
going on in her day.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Right.

Speaker 4 (59:58):
She's just calling him all day and calling the station.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Calling his boss.

Speaker 4 (01:00:01):
Yeah. Also, when she does eventually pull up to, like,
the party that they're, the hotel that they're at, she's wearing, like,
a bonnet. She has, like, sloppy pajamas on. She's wearing, like, slippers,
I think, which is, like, I mean, something to be
said about, like, them trying to show a class difference,
of course, between, like, all these fancy people at this
hotel party. But also something to be said about, like,

(01:00:21):
you had this black woman come out of her house
in a way that I don't think many black women
would come out of their house unless it was in
an emergency, as if it was just, like, no big
deal to her. And she knew she was going to
be around all these very rich, fancy white people, and
that still didn't faze her at all. It's just, like,
not really based in reality. Yeah. Yeah, that's, like, off topic,
but it was something I was thinking about from, like,

(01:00:42):
a racial perspective.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Yeah, no, it does feel like they really go out
of their way to kind of other her in every circumstance. Meanwhile,
they're passing as white chicks, no problem. The Gina character
is so, so frustrating. I was honestly shocked that she
came back after her opening sequence. So I guess if

(01:01:05):
nothing else, she returns. But again, just like the way
that they handle... women in this movie is it's always
like and I think they handle Gina in a similar
way where they're like well women are hysterical but that's okay.

Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
Like that's we still love them.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
Yes like they're presenting because with Gina the I think
that like the breakthrough the breakthrough for Marcus in that
scene when he's listening to Busy Phillips say like I'm
calling this guy all day and like I just want
him to like me blah blah blah like his realization
there is oh my gosh, my wife hysterically calls me
all day. Maybe it's just because she likes me. And

(01:01:46):
it's like, well, but women don't do that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:49):
It's also like, yeah, your wife likes you. Can you
imagine the woman you married likes you and wants to
speak to you?

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Ew.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
It's so, I mean, yeah, that opening sequence, there's literally
an opening sequence where the joke is he keeps falling
asleep whenever she speaks. And all she does is nag
him and yell at him and then obsess over him.
And so it's like they're presenting this very kind of, like,
misogynist woman character. And then they decide to accept her.

(01:02:16):
And you're like, okay, but who is that? Like, who
is that?

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
There is one brief moment where, in that scene where
he keeps falling asleep toward the beginning, she says... we
don't communicate well. Like you're not a good communicator. And I,
that's very likely true for him.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
We have no reason to think he's a good communicator
based on the movie.

Speaker 4 (01:02:40):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
And, and that would be an interesting arc for him
if he was a bad communicator. And we saw evidence
of that and she was unhappy with him because of that.
And then by the end of the movie, he learned through, uh,
presenting as a woman for the weekend yeah he learned
how to be more a more effective communicator that would
be an interesting arc for a character but that is

(01:03:02):
not what happens.

Speaker 4 (01:03:03):
It is not what happened and even if it did
happen it's like okay you lived as let's suspend our
disbelief you lived as a passable cis white woman for
two nights total. And now you understand what it's like
to be a woman because we're so simple and we
have so little interiority or anything to figure out about

(01:03:24):
us that it's just like, God, if you could just
be a woman for two nights, you could figure us
all out and be the perfect husband. Because all we
want is just you to listen to us, bitch. You
know what I mean? We just want to complain a
little bit. We want to go shopping.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
They accept the stereotypes of women at the end, and
you're like, who does this help? One of the other many,
I'm like, this is also just the roast of Tootsie
part two, but how in Tootsie, Dustin Hoffman's character similarly,
I mean, in most of these movies, lives as a
woman for two days, and then in his case, he

(01:03:59):
immediately becomes the quote unquote, the best at being a woman.
He becomes the most famous woman on television. And he's like, yep,
got it. And again, and we've talked about this in
all of these other episodes. So obviously we need to
touch on it here, but there's also, we've had versions
of this discussion in the past of how muddled this

(01:04:21):
gets for the fact that these stories and stories like
this and this premise gets prioritized ahead of any other
representation of drag and how often conflated it gets with,
especially the further you go back in time, people's conception
of trans people and how much intentionally or not this

(01:04:45):
premise can feed into homophobia and transphobia and just a
general prejudice against drag culture. Right.

Speaker 4 (01:04:53):
Of all of the offenses toward marginalized identities they do
in this movie, besides the extremely on its nose, like
these cis men are playing cis woman and they are
doing it very easily by just like putting a mask
on and like some hair on and like what that
says about what these filmmakers thought about trans people. Like

(01:05:14):
they're not, I can't think of one on top of
my head of like a direct joke that they made
at the expense of trans people or gay people.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Not specifically of trans people, but there's so much just
inherent transphobia.

Speaker 4 (01:05:28):
Oh, it's baked into the whole movie. Like it's kind
of in the concept of the whole movie, but it's
just like interesting that they were like, okay, we covered
this with like kind of the whole plot point of
us addressing these men as women. So we don't have
to say it directly.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:05:43):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
Because, I mean, right, there's not a very specific overt
joke at the expense of trans people.

Speaker 4 (01:05:51):
Because they are very specific about other ones.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
Right, right, exactly. But this movie also has such a
narrow conception of gender in general.

Speaker 4 (01:06:00):
Of course.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
That, like, the whole movie is based on the conception of, like,
men be like, women be like. I do agree with you, Taylor,
that I don't think it is like the worst offender
in this genre.

Speaker 4 (01:06:12):
Not to say that's not an offender, to be clear.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
But it is definitely an offender. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
There was, I mean, I think that the biggest sort
of gay panic moment that I noticed was the Terry
Crews character waking up next to oh yeah man and.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
One of the other rich white boys.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
Yes which i'm like that is also a very bizarre
just one of the many never seen this setup before
don't like it but i'm saying i've never seen it
before um is that that setup those two men being
together i think it's implied that they roofied each other
because they they wanted to both roofie women and then

(01:06:49):
they ended up roofying each other It's pretty close to that.
I haven't seen that before. Again, I don't like it,
but I haven't. Yeah, we've seen the two men waking
up next to each other and reacting with horror and
disgust a bajillion times across movies. So what happens there
is that the guy, the white guy, the younger white guy,

(01:07:13):
deliberately drugs himself.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
And we don't know what drug this is, but it's
something that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
I'm fine with them not getting specific. That's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Fine. They seem sort of lucid, sort of not. And
he's like talking to a dog at the nightclub at
one point being like, I love you too, little puppy. Meanwhile,
Terry Crews' character slips the same drug in Tiffany's drink,
although he is letting her know that. He's like, here,

(01:07:42):
just take it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
It'll be great.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
And then she's like, ha ha, okay. And then when
he's not looking, she swaps the drinks. So he basically
accidentally drugs himself. So both of these men have essentially
drugged themselves. And then they're all loosey goosey on the
dance floor. And then they apparently go home that night,
wake up in the same bed together. And then they

(01:08:04):
have a moment of gay panic.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
It is a very elaborate setup to get there.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
Truly.

Speaker 4 (01:08:10):
And like, did we need to get there? Did it
move the plot forward in any capacity? I would say no.
It did not.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
And then, I mean, just even broader, there is homophobia
and transphobia just steeped in the idea of a man
hitting on someone who he thinks is a cis woman,
but is actually a cishet man in disguise.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
And this is kind of twofold because we're supposed to
think it's funny that the man who's doing the hitting
on doesn't know that he's actually flirting with another man.
And then there's also supposed to be humor in the
man who's in disguise as a woman having to deal
with the discomfort of being flirted with by another man
because that's gross and yucky too. And we've talked about
that before. on different episodes of movies where this is

(01:08:58):
the premise of the movie. And again, I haven't seen
some Like It Hot in a couple of years.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
But I still feel like it really takes the cake
in so many ways, even though it's, like, by far
the oldest movie, where the two main characters in that
movie kind of love, like, it seems like they really
come to enjoy being in drag. And then at the end, like,
the nobody's perfect moment. It's amazing. Where I feel like,
especially in the, like, 90s and 2000s, there is always

(01:09:32):
an emphasis on and they're only doing this because for
plot reasons, there is no other option. I think that
that's kind of why I like, even though it's I think,
probably definition wise, they are in drag. But it it's
not quite that because if you're doing drag, there is intent,
you want to do it. It's a performance.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
It's entertainment versus they're doing, I think the better term
or the better word to use is disguise.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
It's disguise, right. But I think it's like there are
so many, especially in 2004, there is so much conflation
of what is happening in these premises in a way
that like, you know, and again, this is like not
specific to white chicks, but in a way that has
like a very lasting kind of cultural impact.

Speaker 4 (01:10:23):
Can I say one more thing about the homophobia in this,
which is that it's so interesting that even with the
choice they made of Terry Crews' character waking up in
bed next to the other guy and having that moment
of gay panic, they still choose, going back, to make
his disgust with discovering that this quote-unquote white woman he's
been pursuing this whole movie is actually a black man.

(01:10:46):
The disgust is not that he's a man. The disgust
is that he's black.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
He's not white.

Speaker 4 (01:10:50):
You know? And then also one more thing is that
when Kevin, I think it is, is taking the reporter
back to Terry Crews' character's house and like showing her
all around, there's that big, giant, naked photograph of Terry Crews'
character on the wall. And she's like, oh, is this...
why do you have this? And he's like, yeah, I

(01:11:13):
guess I appreciate the male form. So he says something
like that, but it's just like the implication that, that
giant naked picture of a man is in Terry Cruz's
characters home is like, so what, what angle are they
going for with this character?

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
I think, well, the Waynes brothers did, I think that
they are trying to do the Some Like It Hot
thing and not quite getting it because they do say
in press junkets throughout, like when they're promoting this movie,
that this is like the movie that that was their
inspiration for doing this. They wanted to do their version
of Some Like It Hot. And I think that they're
trying to do something with the Terry Crews character that

(01:11:48):
doesn't really land based on that. But yeah, it's like,
it is very set up. So then, The gay panic
moment is kind of bizarre to choose for that character specifically.

Speaker 4 (01:11:58):
Agreed. Agreed. That's, I think, what I'm getting at. And even, like,
the scene right before where he's dancing, not that, like,
dancing as a man with your shirt off and, you know,
with a whistle in your mouth and, like, he's actually
a really good dancer. That's me.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:12:13):
It's, like, inherently a gay thing. Like, anybody of any
sexuality or whatever can, like, dance. But I don't think
they're trying to make him look particularly straight. with that
like the way that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
Yeah no i i know what you mean he he
looks like he's plucked out of a gay nightclub.

Speaker 4 (01:12:32):
And he's doing a great job you know yeah he'd
be the hit it's true.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
Totally yeah so there's it's that's the yeah i mean
a lot of the jokes are inconsistent.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
It's yeah i mean i think that there's there's we
we've touched on i think most of them at this
point but it's like It's kind of a toss up
with this movie of like if we're making jokes about
white chicks, sometimes they're like very funny and work because
they're talking about class and they're talking about like white
privilege and all this stuff. And other times they're kind

(01:13:04):
of just being misogynist. And like sometimes with like it's
like sometimes the jokes are doing what I think they
want them to do. And other times it feel like
they're punching down kind of.

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
And it's, it really is just kind of a toss
up from, from joke to joke. It's, it's, I, I
kind of ended up stop. Like I, I probably could
have written down a lot more, but at some point
I'm like, Nope, that's just what this movie is. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
The other runner that I did write down was, so
there's those two, there's that pair of other FBI agents.
I forget their names, but they're like sort of the,
the partners who are like frenemies of Marcus and Kevin. And, um,
they're doing this extended joke where one of them asks
the other one, who would you rather sleep with? And

(01:13:51):
the joke is like, is typically this either like not
conventionally attractive person or situation. And you have to choose
like which quote unquote gross person.

Speaker 4 (01:14:07):
Like gun to your head. Who would you sleep with? Like,
and the options are, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
Such as like Janet Reno or Rosie O'Donnell or, Pam
Anderson and Carmen Electra, but the catch is they both
have a yeast infection. Or RuPaul or Whoopi Goldberg was
one of them.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
These fuck-ass characters are sick. And so irritating.

Speaker 4 (01:14:27):
Yeah. It's also just like, Who cares?

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Who cares?

Speaker 4 (01:14:31):
Grow up.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
Grow up.

Speaker 4 (01:14:32):
It's a little yeast infection. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
And then there's another gay panic moment with those guys
where one of them, I think it's the white guy,
sniffs panties.

Speaker 2 (01:14:43):
Oh, yes.

Speaker 3 (01:14:43):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
And then later finds out it was his male co-worker's panties.
And he's like, oh. It's just, you know, it's 2004.
And here we are.

Speaker 4 (01:14:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
So I guess ultimately there are a handful of moments
or beats or whatever that start to provide some sort
of commentary on the behavior of wealthy white women. And look,
white women deserve a lot of scrutiny. But again, it

(01:15:17):
just never gets very far. There's not really a lot
of criticism of white men.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
I also kind of noticed. They are, I guess, ultimately
the big bads in this kidnapping plot that is kind
of like, who cares? No one is coming to this
movie for the kidnapping plot.

Speaker 4 (01:15:35):
Do you know what's funny is that the point where
they do get kind of taken down is when there's
actually a pretty funny line where at the end it's
revealed that the Vandergeld patriarch is one of the kidnappers.
And his kind of takedown is that now he's poor.
That's like the worst thing he could possibly be. And
it's like, let's debase this white man in the best
way we can debase a white man, which is like.

(01:15:57):
ignore the kidnapping, ignore like the racism, ignore all of that.
It's that he has lost all his money and he's poor. Yeah.
You know, it's like, this is like the ultimate way
to take down a white guy is to make fun
of how much money he has, where it's like, they're
kind of the ones who are doing bad the whole movie. Right.
Trying to, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
It's like, not like I wanted more of those characters.

Speaker 4 (01:16:18):
No, but.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
But yeah, I guess I didn't even think about that
until after there was a piece that I read. on
EngageScholarship.com called Neglecting the Subjects of the Drag Performance in
White Chicks, because there is a dissertation on every movie.

Speaker 4 (01:16:37):
Of course. Of course.

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
This is from 2015. And there's a lot of interesting stuff,
a lot of which we've kind of touched on already.
But yeah, at the end sort of points out that
white women are extensively thought about in this movie they're
heavily criticized in like ways that i think are like
very effective they're they're um along with the black women

(01:17:01):
in the story lightly characterized but not really at all
but that um it's just interesting that like white men
are not particularly present in this.

Speaker 4 (01:17:11):
Story well because they're the default which is like you
know yeah race 101 it's like white men are the
default and they're also the people who are making decisions Well,
I was going to say who were making the decisions
in Hollywood in 2004, but they're still making the decisions
in Hollywood. Let's be honest.

Speaker 1 (01:17:28):
Now more than ever.

Speaker 4 (01:17:29):
Truly.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
To go back to Denise briefly, the journalist who's the
love interest of Kevin... You mentioned this a bit ago, Jamie,
but she is the one exception to the rule in
this movie as far as women are hysterical or women
are bimbos.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
She's also the only woman with a job as far
as I know.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
Yes. She is presented as she's more level-headed. She's more intellectual.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
But also, like... She.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
So this is a romance based on deception where Kevin
is lying to her, pretending to be Latrell and bringing
her to a house that isn't him and lying about
all of this stuff. And despite her. Being a journalist
and expressing specifically an interest in investigative journalism, she does

(01:18:24):
not pick up on the obvious clues that he is
lying about everything.

Speaker 1 (01:18:30):
Look, it seems like she's a culture writer, okay?

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
But she says she used to be an investigative journalist
and then got fired. I will say that she does
provide information. that does help push the story forward in
the sense that she's like the guy who you thought
was poor is actually rich. Then the brothers figure out, Oh,
it can't be that Ted Burton guy.

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
He doesn't have a motive, but she's never, I mean,
but to your point, Caitlin, like she's never given, and
we've come across this, like this issue so many times
in like woman being deceived plots. Whereas like if, if
at some point in the movie, she figures it out,
all of a sudden she's a character and, And, like,
she wants to be an investigative journalist. Why would she

(01:19:12):
not be interested in this story? But, like, her being
a journalist is so incidental. It feels like they're kind
of just paying lip service to, like, Well, we wrote
a woman. We did it. She has a job and everything.

Speaker 4 (01:19:24):
And she has a job, okay? So get off her back.

Speaker 1 (01:19:27):
Exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:19:27):
Is she like subjectively the most beautiful woman on planet Earth? Like, yeah. 100%.
That doesn't even matter. That doesn't even matter.

Speaker 1 (01:19:34):
But her real– I did really love the delivery of–
and that's how I realized my passion was investigative journalism.
And I'm like, three, two, one for this to never
become relevant. And it doesn't. And it sucks because it's
like you can so easily just like– you know, bullshit
off the top of your head, a way for that
to become both very relevant and for her to like

(01:19:56):
actually have a character and they just don't.

Speaker 4 (01:19:58):
Specifically within the plot of this movie. Like that's kind of,
oh my God. It's so, so they easily could have
caught like 40 minutes off the movie if they had
just cut Gina's whole role that didn't need to be
there because it does nothing to move the movie, the
plot forward at all. And like gave all of that
kind of investigation, like, Hmm, this seems a little fishy. Like, Hmm,
I got to get to the bottom of this to
the literal investigative journalist in the film.

Speaker 1 (01:20:18):
That also reminds me of there's like a one-off. Again,
it's like there's a few self-aware jokes that they'll do
before kind of like reinforcing an existing trope anyways. And
there's a moment at the very end where Gina is
about to forgive Marcus. And she's like brought her friend
with her. And her friend is like, I know you're

(01:20:39):
not about to forgive your husband. I know you're not
about to forgive your husband when he says sorry one time.
And she says, oh, go away. And then she forgives
her husband and everything is fine because he goes, pee
pee poo poo. I'm so sorry. You're so pretty. Like,
you know, and so they it's I just thought it
was interesting that they went out of their way to
kind of invent a character to call out the their

(01:21:00):
own poor writing. But they but they did again.

Speaker 4 (01:21:04):
You're like, you know, and also it's it's almost like
they wanted us the white chicks, let's say. uh, not
me necessarily, but to learn, to learn, um, to, for,
for women to ultimately be the people who take a
lesson from this movie. And that is that kind of
don't ask too many questions. Right. And also if your
friend is going to take back her like conniving, lying, like,

(01:21:27):
husband who finds her objectively boring and like, doesn't really
want to spend time with her and ignores her phone calls.
Like you're being a bad friend by bringing her attention
to that. Just let her do her thing.

Speaker 1 (01:21:36):
Yeah. It's true. You know, she's probably just jealous.

Speaker 4 (01:21:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
There's that moment toward the end where the man that
busy Phillips, this character likes, she confronts him and she's like, you, because,
because again, the men who are pretending to be women
teach women, a woman a lesson on how to respect

(01:22:00):
yourself as a woman. And she goes, you know what,
you don't deserve me. I'm more than just a booty call.
You don't respect me. And he's like, what? Oh, my God.
I can't believe you're calling me out for this. And
we're supposed to be like, woohoo.

Speaker 1 (01:22:17):
She did it.

Speaker 4 (01:22:17):
Girl power.

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
Girl power.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
She learned how to be a woman because a man
taught her.

Speaker 1 (01:22:24):
Always. Always in these stories. No, I'm not going to
bring up Tootsie a 40th time.

Speaker 4 (01:22:30):
I think you can bring up Tootsie a 40th time.

Speaker 1 (01:22:32):
I'll do it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
I think that my favorite woman... paradoxically I do think
my favorite character in Tootsie is the woman who he
deceitfully falls in love with the Jessica Lange character because
there is that like really frustrating confounding thing at the
end of that movie where she sees him you know

(01:22:56):
like after he's been revealed to not be dorothy or
whatever and she's just like i miss you when you
were dorothy and like doesn't really it's suggested that she's
going to end up with them anyways but i was
like that was i don't know i always find that
like that line so interesting of like she really needed
a woman friend and now she is expected to have

(01:23:19):
a fuck-ass boyfriend and like how disappointing would that be
and like but but this movie i think like it
White Chicks is very much, with the exception of the
nod of the Terry Crews joke, it does do, I think,
what this kind of movie more often does, which is just,
quote unquote, like, restores straight cis order to the world.

(01:23:41):
And there is, like, the sort of last five minutes
of the movie are going from character to character and
affirming that, quote unquote, order has been restored. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:23:50):
Even though we, like, deceived you and lied to you and, like,
We're in spaces that you would not have let us
in had you known that we were pretending to be
your friends and not actually your friends. You forgave us.
And like, we're going to go shopping later.

Speaker 2 (01:24:02):
Because women be shopping. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:24:07):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:24:08):
Does anyone have anything else they want to say?

Speaker 1 (01:24:10):
What a journey. Girls, what a journey. Oh, boy. Yeah,
I think that that's... I mean, yeah, I could keep going,
but that's basically everything I had.

Speaker 4 (01:24:19):
I could talk about this movie truly all day.

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
It really... There's so much going on. Nothing else like it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:25):
Mm-hmm. Well, does it pass the Bechdel test?

Speaker 1 (01:24:31):
Um.

Speaker 2 (01:24:32):
And mind you, we are not considering Kevin and Marcus
when they are in disguise as the Wilson sisters.

Speaker 1 (01:24:38):
They are not. And we're not supposed to. I think
that there might be some like barely passes. There's like
between the white chicks. Or no, sorry, the white women.

Speaker 4 (01:24:49):
Women, yeah, the friends.

Speaker 1 (01:24:50):
I think that there are a few soft passes between
the friends. It is usually, but I think that like
any pass that does exist is performing gendered stereotypes. And
so I'm sort of like not wanting to give it
to them for this one. Maybe technically, but not for me.

Speaker 4 (01:25:06):
I was going to say, even if it technically did,
I think the, let's say the vibe of a movie
as a whole fails it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:25:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:16):
We always say spiritually it does not pass.

Speaker 4 (01:25:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:19):
Even if it maybe technically does.

Speaker 1 (01:25:22):
In the movie White Chicks, I do think they fail
to write coherently a single woman and therefore it does
not pass.

Speaker 4 (01:25:29):
They fail to write coherently a single movie. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:33):
And you'll never guess that there are six screenplay by
credited writers.

Speaker 1 (01:25:39):
On this movie. That does crack me up. Seeing that
in the end, you're like, how many men do we
need to get in a room for this?

Speaker 2 (01:25:45):
It took six men.

Speaker 4 (01:25:48):
Not a single one is a woman.

Speaker 2 (01:25:49):
Not a single, no. It is three of the Wayans brothers,
Keenan Ivory, Sean and Marlon, and then three other people
who I didn't even bother to look up. So I
don't know anything about them.

Speaker 1 (01:26:02):
I'll do a quick check. Please. Michael Anthony Snowden, Andy McElfish.

Speaker 2 (01:26:09):
McElfresh. McElfresh.

Speaker 1 (01:26:11):
Oh, McElfish I like better. Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
McElfresh is probably how you say it, but I like McElfresh.

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
I like it too. McElfresh. McElfresh. Yeah, it's all middle-aged
men wrote this movie.

Speaker 4 (01:26:25):
Not a single one was like, hmm, we're going to
make a movie that primarily centers around these two men
who are dressed as women and their interactions with these
other three women. And we're going to call it White Chicks.
We probably don't need any women to take.

Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
A look at this script.

Speaker 4 (01:26:39):
Like we're probably, we can figure this. We know women,
they're easy.

Speaker 2 (01:26:43):
We got this.

Speaker 4 (01:26:44):
We got this.

Speaker 2 (01:26:45):
Women are hysterical. That's what we know. And that's what
we'll write.

Speaker 1 (01:26:48):
But we controversially are going to say that's actually awesome.
And we get it.

Speaker 4 (01:26:53):
Can I ask you guys one question before we wrap
it up?

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
Please.

Speaker 4 (01:26:58):
Do you think that there is a way that this
movie is, Could be made today. The sentence is not over.
Could be made today with all of the 2026 kind
of progress we've made with respect to showing marginalized identities
in movies. Do you think they could remake White Chicks

(01:27:20):
in a way that we could release it today and
people would be like, this is fine? It doesn't have
to be good.

Speaker 1 (01:27:25):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:27:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:27):
I think it would have to depend on so many things.

Speaker 4 (01:27:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:27:33):
I mean, it's like so many of the specifics would
have to change.

Speaker 4 (01:27:35):
That it wouldn't be the same movie.

Speaker 1 (01:27:37):
Yeah, exactly. Like, I don't know. So much would have
to go. I don't know. I mean, I do. Whether
we like it or not, this premise will continue to
happen in movies. It is just like a premise that
has existed for so long. I mean, that's like a
bunch of Shakespeare plays are also have more. Look, Shakespeare

(01:27:59):
has more in common with white chicks than you may think.

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
Well, I was going to say, so She's the Man
is based on Twelfth Night. Is that right?

Speaker 4 (01:28:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:08):
And that's a movie about someone of one gender pretending
to be another gender in order to prove something and
in order to be able to play soccer. And it's
a movie that's not without its faults.

Speaker 1 (01:28:22):
I'm not saying that.

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
But it's a movie that I really enjoy. Mulan is
a movie about disguising as a different gender. In order
to X, Y, Z.

Speaker 4 (01:28:32):
There is something in common with both of those movies.

Speaker 2 (01:28:35):
Is it that they're women pretending to be men? Correct.

Speaker 4 (01:28:38):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (01:28:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:40):
I'm not saying that it's impossible for a movie about
the sort of reverse of that, a cis man pretending
to be a cis woman that can't work. I just
haven't really seen evidence of it working.

Speaker 1 (01:28:58):
I'm gonna say maybe maybe maybe probably not i would
yeah uh i i would rather there's so many movies
i would rather see than uh this premise.

Speaker 4 (01:29:07):
Again very true yeah i think i yearn for just
like a comedy you can watch with your friends like
drunk on a couch that's not like doesn't necessarily have
to be a thinker but i think that there's probably
a happy medium between the 2004 iteration of that and
like what the 2026 iteration of that would be. Um,

(01:29:28):
that doesn't have to be disgusting in so many capacities.

Speaker 2 (01:29:33):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:29:34):
Yeah. I believe, I believe we should do it.

Speaker 4 (01:29:38):
We should just wait a second.

Speaker 2 (01:29:39):
Let's do it.

Speaker 4 (01:29:39):
I want to make a stoner film that only has
women in it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:43):
Oh, Taylor, you'd be so good at it.

Speaker 4 (01:29:45):
I don't think we have one yet. We got to
make one.

Speaker 1 (01:29:47):
Not really.

Speaker 2 (01:29:48):
What was that?

Speaker 1 (01:29:49):
There was a recent. Kristen Stewart.

Speaker 2 (01:29:51):
Kristen Stewart and Alia.

Speaker 1 (01:29:53):
Yeah. I have not seen it.

Speaker 4 (01:29:54):
I haven't seen it either.

Speaker 2 (01:29:55):
But I saw it and I didn't like it very much.

Speaker 4 (01:29:58):
Not good. No.

Speaker 1 (01:29:59):
All right, Taylor, you got to do it. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:30:01):
Okay. Well.

Speaker 1 (01:30:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:30:02):
If I need a couple of people to look at
the scripts, I'm going to hit up five men. So
I'm so sorry that you guys won't be on the list.

Speaker 1 (01:30:09):
No, that we understand. No, of course.

Speaker 4 (01:30:11):
I'm really sorry about that.

Speaker 1 (01:30:12):
Five men in their 40s are going to be stop
number one.

Speaker 4 (01:30:15):
I don't even know five men in their 40s.

Speaker 2 (01:30:17):
And that's a blessing for you. Okay, so spiritually does
not pass the Bechdel test. What about our nipple scale
where we rate the movie on a scale of zero
to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional
feminist lens?

Speaker 1 (01:30:34):
Boy, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:30:37):
I'm going to go half nipple on this one. I
was considering zero, but I'm going to go a half
nipple because... they do start to provide some commentary on
white privilege and the weaponizing of white woman tears and
that kind of thing. Again, the movie kind of drops it.

(01:30:57):
It doesn't explore that to its full potential, but it
does a little bit of that and those were some
of my favorite parts of the movie. Otherwise, it is
so steeped in homophobia, transphobia, misogyny, racism. It's copaganda.

Speaker 4 (01:31:19):
It is copaganda.

Speaker 2 (01:31:20):
It's got all these problems.

Speaker 4 (01:31:23):
Wow, that's one you don't even usually see.

Speaker 1 (01:31:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:31:26):
You know, that's like a, wow.

Speaker 2 (01:31:27):
But so yeah, a half nipple. And I'll give it
to Gina, Marcus's wife, because she deserved better.

Speaker 1 (01:31:39):
She deserved a hobby.

Speaker 4 (01:31:41):
Anything.

Speaker 1 (01:31:41):
Or a part-time job.

Speaker 4 (01:31:43):
Anything.

Speaker 1 (01:31:43):
Anything at all. A second outfit. You know, so many things.

Speaker 4 (01:31:48):
A friend who spoke more than once in the whole film.

Speaker 1 (01:31:54):
Maybe next time. Yeah, I guess I'll meet you at
a half. I think that this movie, like we've been
talking about for two hours, plays into... basically every you
know fault of broad comedies of this time and some
that are like more particular to wayne's brothers movie specifically
but i think it's the 90s 2000s broad offensive humor

(01:32:17):
that is punching at just about anyone who is not
who are not men is very present here for sure
i also think that this movie has an interesting it's
like i feel like i've been kind of talking around
this whole time but like this movie has an interesting
place in the history of this premise because I think
it is uniquely attempting to talk about race and class

(01:32:38):
in a way that is kind of unusual for this premise,
a premise I generally find is like poorly handled, including here,
but in a way I've never seen before.

Speaker 4 (01:32:49):
And in a way that's maybe on accident.

Speaker 1 (01:32:51):
Exactly. Yeah. I mean, it's so hard to, especially when
you're watching a movie that's like that came out 20
years ago, you're like, the things that they get right
may be kind of just like.

Speaker 4 (01:33:01):
Just coincidental.

Speaker 1 (01:33:03):
They're just throwing darts. So I'll go half nipple, and
I guess I will give mine to the world's worst reporter. Denise. Denise. Denise. Taylor,
what about you?

Speaker 4 (01:33:20):
It deserves zero nipples, I'll be honest, but This is
extremely shallow. So hear me out.

Speaker 2 (01:33:28):
Go for it.

Speaker 4 (01:33:28):
But I also do agree with everything everybody else has said. Obviously,
there's the dynamic between the Vandergaald sisters and the Wilson
sisters in that front group and they're like enemies. But
I do think the way that they portray the friendship
between the main cast and like the main white woman

(01:33:48):
and the white chicks is like kind of nice and
not catty in a way that lots of female friendships
are like usually portrayed where.

Speaker 2 (01:33:56):
It's like they are supportive of each other you know what.

Speaker 4 (01:33:59):
And it's like they're always like you look beautiful like
we'll find you an outfit like they're very much like
oh honey like you I'll help you zip it you
know like it it's a little heartwarming in a way
that I think that sometimes they're like this is your
best friend, but behind your back, she's doing something like this,
you know?

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
95% of female friendship is zipping up our clothes for
each other.

Speaker 4 (01:34:18):
It's so, and that's, that's going to make me tear up.

Speaker 1 (01:34:20):
It's beautiful.

Speaker 4 (01:34:22):
Yeah. So I will give it, yeah, I'll give it
half a nipple for everything y'all said. And also because
I do think that friendship, female friendship dynamic is beautiful.
And I will give it to, hmm, what was the
character that, White woman, brown hair. There's like the redhead one,
there's Busy Phillips, and then there's brown.

Speaker 1 (01:34:41):
Lisa? Is that Jamie King?

Speaker 4 (01:34:44):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:34:44):
Maybe? Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:34:45):
At one point, one of the white chicks is in
the bathroom having a poop emergency and is like, I'll
be right out. And they're like, oh, are you having
like a bad period? The redhead one offers a tampon
and Jamie King's character offers a pad. And I think
that's empowering because they're so much discourse around tampons versus
pads and pads get a lot of pads get a
lot of shit and so she gets my half a

(01:35:07):
nipple for being like yeah i'm a pad gal.

Speaker 2 (01:35:09):
That's very true i was also surprised that those three
white women weren't like oh you're pooping gross oh my
god they were just like you seem to be maybe
you need a minute by yourself that's their.

Speaker 4 (01:35:20):
Friend you know yeah yeah if my friend was shitting
up my bathroom i would be like are you good
otherwise Shit away, girl.

Speaker 2 (01:35:27):
I'll give you some privacy.

Speaker 1 (01:35:28):
Yeah, I'll give you some space. That is true. That
is true. I think that a lesser movie would have
the women turn against each other in a cat like
I think that they go they go so heavy into
like bimbo territory. that they neglect to go catty.

Speaker 4 (01:35:46):
Yeah. Yeah. And we got them in that way. Ladies.

Speaker 1 (01:35:49):
We got them.

Speaker 4 (01:35:50):
We got them ladies.

Speaker 1 (01:35:50):
So actually this movie deserves five nipples.

Speaker 2 (01:35:57):
Oh gosh. Well, Taylor, thank you so much. This has
been a blast.

Speaker 1 (01:36:01):
Truly.

Speaker 4 (01:36:01):
This is a dream come true. I can't wait to
record another one next week.

Speaker 2 (01:36:06):
Truly come back.

Speaker 4 (01:36:06):
It doesn't have to be about white chicks.

Speaker 2 (01:36:08):
Come back anytime. Come back next week, the week after
all of, all of the.

Speaker 4 (01:36:12):
Weeks I can't wait I'm gonna watch so many movies
um thank you both for having me on I love
you both dearly and you're both like really pretty I
hope that's okay to say.

Speaker 1 (01:36:21):
Oh my god wait thank you you're the most beautiful
woman in the world.

Speaker 4 (01:36:24):
You're so pretty oh wait sorry I gotta be catty
yeah pretty Nice. See, I'm bad at it. I'm bad
at it. Damn.

Speaker 2 (01:36:31):
Fuck.

Speaker 1 (01:36:32):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:36:32):
I think I'm pretty nice. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:36:35):
No, I'm hurt.

Speaker 2 (01:36:37):
We're all gorgeous. We're all such good people. And that's
why we're friends.

Speaker 4 (01:36:42):
Yeah. The gorgeousness doesn't even matter. I want to make
that clear. But it is an objective truth about you
both inside and out. Beautiful people.

Speaker 2 (01:36:49):
And you as well.

Speaker 1 (01:36:49):
Likewise.

Speaker 4 (01:36:50):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:36:51):
I love you.

Speaker 2 (01:36:51):
Tell us where people can follow you on social media,
plug anything you want to plug.

Speaker 4 (01:36:58):
Sure. You can find me on Instagram at Taylor Garan.
You can find me on Twitter at Taylor Garan. I'm
not proud of that. I'm on TikTok at Taylor Garan.
I got to post more. My manager's like kind of
getting on my ass about it. But yeah, Instagram's your
best bet. And I do stand up in New York
and LA. Yeah, I'm a recurring teacher on Abbott Elementary.

(01:37:21):
So if you watch it, I will pop up and
say something for Comic Relief every couple of episodes. Be
on the lookout for that.

Speaker 1 (01:37:28):
Love it.

Speaker 4 (01:37:28):
Yeah. And I got some, got some ions in the fire.
So keep an eye on me. I may not be
the most famous Taylor, but.

Speaker 2 (01:37:36):
That of course being Taylor Lautner. Just kidding.

Speaker 4 (01:37:39):
Yeah. And his wife.

Speaker 1 (01:37:40):
And then followed by unfortunately Taylor Lautner and then Taylor Guerin.
And then I think Taylor Swift is like 15. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:37:46):
Yeah. She's on the list.

Speaker 1 (01:37:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:37:48):
She's really taken the one for the team because you
don't want to be that famous, you know?

Speaker 1 (01:37:52):
Yeah. It's true.

Speaker 4 (01:37:53):
It's true.

Speaker 1 (01:37:53):
I heard that the, the Taylor's Lautner are. having a
baby and they are considering making the most annoying choice
they could possibly make.

Speaker 2 (01:38:01):
To name it Taylor?

Speaker 4 (01:38:02):
Just put it as a middle name and call it Taylor.

Speaker 1 (01:38:05):
How much attention do you guys need? All right. Come on.

Speaker 4 (01:38:09):
I would do it. I think it's funny. I would
absolutely do it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:13):
I think people should name their kids, like do a
bit when they're naming their kids.

Speaker 4 (01:38:18):
Yeah. Ultimately that's what having a kid is for.

Speaker 2 (01:38:21):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (01:38:22):
That is true. The psychological torture angle is, I wouldn't
say it's slept on, actually. It's popular.

Speaker 4 (01:38:28):
Yeah. My parents did it. Yeah. Not to my name,
just like in their kind of actions, you know. Anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:38:34):
And raising me, yes. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Well, yes.
Thank you so much, Taylor. Everyone follow Taylor and go
watch her shows and watch Abbott Elementary and everything. And
then you can follow us on Instagram at Bechtelcast. You
can subscribe to our Patreon, aka Matreon, at patreon.com slash Bechtelcast,

(01:38:57):
where we post two bonus episodes every single month.

Speaker 1 (01:39:01):
You can come see us on tour. In the middle
of October, we are touring... throughout the Northeast. So we
will be in New York, we'll be in Boston, we'll
be in Pittsburgh, we'll be in State College, we'll be
in Baltimore, we'll be in Philadelphia. I think that's all
of them with more dates to come all around the
country for our 10th anniversary.

Speaker 2 (01:39:19):
Go to linktree.com for tickets to those shows.

Speaker 1 (01:39:23):
And with that... Um, let's, Ooh, gosh, how do we,
how do we wrap this one?

Speaker 2 (01:39:29):
Let's make our way downtown. Walking fast.

Speaker 4 (01:39:35):
You guys want to say, I'll say the N word
on three.

Speaker 1 (01:39:39):
Okay. Ready?

Speaker 4 (01:39:40):
One, two, it cuts out.

Speaker 1 (01:39:42):
Bye.

Speaker 4 (01:39:44):
Bye. Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:39:49):
The Bechdelcast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted and produced
by me, Jamie Loftus.

Speaker 2 (01:39:54):
And me, Caitlin Durante. The podcast is also produced by
Sophie Lichterman.

Speaker 1 (01:39:59):
And edited by Caitlin Durante. Ever heard of them? That's me.

Speaker 2 (01:40:03):
And our logo and merch and all of our artwork,
in fact, are designed by Jamie Loftus.

Speaker 1 (01:40:09):
Ever heard of her? Oh, my God. And our theme song,
by the way, was composed by Mike Kaplan.

Speaker 2 (01:40:15):
With vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski.

Speaker 1 (01:40:18):
Iconic. And a special thanks to the one and only
Aristotle Acevedo.

Speaker 2 (01:40:23):
For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree.com.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

The Bechdel Cast News

Follow Us On

Hosts And Creators

Caitlin Durante

Jamie Loftus

Show Links

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Bobby Bones Show

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}White Chicks with Taylor Garron