Icon #11 - Tupac Shakur: When 25 Years = 3 Lifetimes - The Daily Zeitgeist

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello the Internet, and welcome to this spinoff episode of
Dirt Ailly Zai Geis. What's On is a production of iHeartRadio.
This one we're calling the iconographs. Instead of looking at
the Zeitgeys through the current events on Monday mornings, we're
looking at the Zeikeeys through the powerful pop culture hork truxes.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
That are our icons.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Uh. We use these figures, these characters, to create meaning,
to build identity, to learn what a double album is.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
I didn't realize this was that that was the first
rap double album. How to picture.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Someone rolling is something we learn, and we learned that
while it is objectively stupid and hilarious that some people
think Elvis is still alive, some icons really do fake
their own deaths and leave behind a trail of clues
for reasons that are unclear.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Today we're talking about Tupac Shakor, probably the icon that
meant the most to me of anyone we've covered so far,
with the obvious exception of Arkle. I'm thrilled to be
joined as always by my co host, mister Miles Gret.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Great to be.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
Here, great to be here, great to talk about somebody.
Also very very important to my life and my love
of hip hop.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
For sure, for sure, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
And in our third seat at resident California, La Valley historian,
the creator of Heidi World and Jenna World, it's mom Lamb.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Was that up?

Speaker 4 (01:36):
Bring it, bring it, don't sing it? Sing it?

Speaker 2 (01:39):
There you go?

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, exactly why did this guy like the West Side
of La so much? He just really loved like Westwood,
Santa Monica, Venice Wood.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Is that what he was talking about?

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Uh, Saint Martin of Tours School, Yes, all of this,
all of the.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, this is the part of the episode usually where
up top we're like, Okay, here are the things that
make this person like a bona fide icon, Like they
appear on a lot of dorm room walls or T
shirts or I don't think we need to do that
with Tupac. It's just everything, you know, everything about him
is iconic. I do want to just like kind of
get into two of the central they're almost like optical

(02:25):
illusions about his life in the documentary Did you guys
watch Dear Mama, The documentary by the very Hughes brother
whose ass Tupac kicked when his role a menaced to
society fell apart.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Oh no, I didn't see that one, okay, But.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
One of his friends in that documentary says that Tupac
lived like three full lives every eight months, basically, and
that's why his life feels so long, and it is
like the central illusion of his life, like he did
so much stuff in such a short time, recorded so much,
got into so much trouble, we filmed so many movies.

(03:02):
There are these moments in this research where it's like, yeah,
so he like came from this concert that has like
a famous bootleg recording of one of his songs, goes out,
shoots two off duty cops, goes up to his hotel room,
throws a party, and like debuts Dear Mama to his friend.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
And it's only like a two hour span. It's just
like a fuck, Yeah, he had a lot.

Speaker 4 (03:33):
Yes, look, we all have twenty four hours each day.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
He exactly.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
He does have the thing that I've noticed a lot
of our icons have, which is that I think he
needs less sleep, Like he's everybody's like he he's up
way later than us, and we wake up and he's
been up for two hours, like smoking blunts and like
filling notebooks, like he's just got an insane motor.

Speaker 4 (03:58):
Miles Gray channeling the spirit today.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yes, exactly me prolific with podcasting. Even when I die,
there will be podcast episodes. They will onner Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
Well double podcast album, I'll say.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
The other optical illusion from this research is that he
appears to be different people in different moments. Like there's
interviews from early in his life where he just seems
like a very sensitive theater kid. There's interview where he's
in jail or like spending a lot of time with
the Black Panthers, and he's like very sober and focused

(04:32):
and seems almost like a consciousness rapper. And then there
are the times when he's the guy from his most
popular songs and like, I just think that's like what
he has, this insane motor that won't quit. And then
he seems to absorb whatever energy is around him and
just be the most like a lot of his friends are, like,

(04:54):
he will just take whatever is going on around him
and become like the most charismatic, impelling version of that
thing that he's channeling, and those seem to be some
of his superpowers. But there's again he just packs in
so much like other people talk about seizing the day,
and by the time they've finished that sentence, Tupac has

(05:17):
fucked Madonna, shot two off duty cops, and written an album.
It's just so crazy how much he did. But I
will also say it, I want to just like put
these two questions to you guys. One, he does seem
to be the one person, after like going through this
research whose fame was not well served by dying young.

(05:39):
Like most people, it's like, well, the attention for dying young,
the romance of like dying young, outweighs what they would
have gone on to do or at least like it could.
But with him, I'm like absolutely convinced he would have
gotten bigger and more important if he had been allowed
to live an Oscar. Yeah, I think he would have.

(06:00):
He got it, like he is fucking.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
So prize too, Yeah, like because he was so idiotly
he was focused towards the end.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah, Politically he was ahead of his time, and then
like artistically he was just you know, burning so fast
and bright and uh just every everything he put himself too.
He was really good at it. It's not like a
simple what if where I mean, there are like some
aspects of his death where it's like really bad luck,
like the killer just happening to like find them stopped

(06:31):
at that red light is like kind of like the
Franz Ferdinand thing, where like Franz Ferdinand's car just happened
to break down right in front of a guy who
had been like looking to assassinate him all day. The
guy had like given up on finded. Yeah, the guy
Gabriel Prinzip was trying to assassinate him all day, gave
up because he couldn't like find him. Was ordering a

(06:54):
sandwich and Franz Ferdinand pulled up and his car broke
down outside of the sandwich shops that he was at,
and so he just like turned around, and that like
kind of happened in the sense that like the people
who killed him like happened to be able to like
pull up right next to him.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
Jack, do you think this is Franz Ferdinand icons I'm
saying this is a touchstone everybody knows. But he also
just lived like he had the invincibility star of Mario
Tupac did, like towards towards the end of his life.
Like it was so it's it's like if he hadn't
died in the Vegas shooting. Who knows what would have

(07:33):
happened the next day.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
But I do think had he continued to live and
create and like what were he working today, I think
he would have done incredible things, both politically and artistically. Yeah,
and it's the one reason that I don't believe he's
still alive is because he would have made too much shit,
Like you couldn't. You couldn't, like he had no off button.

(07:55):
That was another kind of hypothetical I wanted to pose
up top. Is why I like Tupac and Elvis get
the no they're definitely not dead thing from the zeitgeist,
whereas like Biggie doesn't get it. Other I don't know who.

Speaker 4 (08:14):
The Yeah, what if Biggie's alive? Come on, guys, Yeah,
I'll be so fucked up.

Speaker 3 (08:17):
Christopher Wallace is out there, He's like, man, I'm actually
out here.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
He abody cares. They just think I'm jamazing guy. Yeah,
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
I mean, I think with Elvis is more curious to
me because, like with Tupac, he was only twenty five
and you're like, okay, what else is coming out of
this person? Like it seems like you are just getting started,
even though this beginning part of your career was already
so legendary, and I think there's at least for me,
it was like, there's so much unfinished business. I was

(08:47):
so in on Tupac being alive because I'm like, dude,
there's no way. Guy, like in my mind, like twenty
five and you're dead.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
No, dude, you're.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Many songs are like predicting his own death or being
like you can't kill me. And then he released an
album called Macavelly posthumously, where like Macavelli had talked about
or written about faking your own death, and everybody figured
out that Macavelli is an anagram for m alive k.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
So for some reason, he hit the truth.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
He hid the truth in a clue where he talks
like mister mackew from South Barky am alive.

Speaker 3 (09:28):
Dude, Elvis Presley, Presley lives, Thank you, dude.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
You see it's all right there.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
But that's the thing with like Elvis, I'm like, dude,
this guy was so like unhealthy. Towards the end, it
makes sense, that's right, I asked away, so, but I
guess I'm sure for people of that generation they also
felt like there's still so much more that I want
from you.

Speaker 4 (09:49):
Well Jesus energy as well.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah right, like the like a spiritual connection to their
fans where their fans like, it's clearly more than that wearing.

Speaker 4 (10:03):
They both wear leather.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
They both wear leather. But like I mean, there is
like a weird similarity to black music. They both very
influenced by black music.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
I can't wait to this section we talk about how
much Tupac stole from black artists.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
I know, oh man, it's not good, guys, not good.
They both also had movie crew. I mean, Elvis's movie
career was just basically like stand here Elvis and then
sing this song of the some of them are good,
like actually had a movie crew.

Speaker 4 (10:36):
Elvis also could have been a good actor if the
Colonel hadn't ye done what he did.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, yeah, mismanaged careers at least with Tupac towards the
end when Shug was his manager.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
We're not saying anything bad about Shug Knight here, guys,
he's got nope, they got podcasts in prison.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah yeah, yeah, he's coming out and he's a genius,
and yeah he's nothing wrong and nothing wrong. I did
realize that he's basically believed that he arranged the killing
of Biggie.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
Well, guys, I was going to watch some TUPAC documentaries,
but then I ended up only watching one TUPAC documentary
called Murder Rap Oh Yeah on two b A, which
I recommend because it is this cop, this LAPD cop.
Basically it was like the retired right well, it was

(11:31):
like the one guy Russell Poole. This one cop claimed
to have solved the case and put forward this theory
that was kind of everybody said was definitely false. That.
But then they were like, case closed, and that's the
theory that's in Biggie and Tupac, the Nick Groomfield doc

(11:53):
and he wrote this book Labyrinth with the La Labyrinth.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Hell yeah, dude.

Speaker 4 (12:00):
And then this other cop reopened the case because he
was like, that's not that wasn't it. This one guy
they said did it was like a real turt in
San Diego who clearly had nothing to do with it
and had been cleared. And so this other cop reopened
the case, basically solved the case. Yeah, and then brought

(12:20):
you know, brought his results to the LPD and the
LPD was like, okay, great, you're off the case case closed.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Mm hm you know, we don't want to solve this
right well, yeah, and.

Speaker 4 (12:30):
This cop was also he was like very you know,
I'm going to exonerate the LAPD in the case because
they had been, you know, rumored to be involved. There
were a lot of RIPD officers maybe working as a.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Big pry sued the LAPD for involvement in that.

Speaker 4 (12:50):
That's what. That's what. Like the LAPD were like, we
we want just enough information so that we don't have
to pay off the lawsuit. But then we're closing the
case and no one's ever gonna get yeah, get arrested
or anything, even though we know who did it.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
Right, yes we call that justice and yes, yes we
don't do this here. Oh we know who did it.

Speaker 4 (13:12):
But the doc is crazy because it's just this one
copying like I figured it out and nobody cares.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah right, yeah, So we'll get to that. I'm interested
to hear more about that. I think I think it's
the one that I read up on to the theory
that I read up on. Butt's let's get into the beginning.
We're going to start with Tupac's mom, A Fenni Shakur,
prominent member of the Black Panther Parties Harlem Chapter, and
in nineteen sixty nine she was arrested in the famous

(13:38):
Panther twenty one case, in which twenty one twenty one
twenty one Black Panther Party members were charged with conspiring
the bomb buildings in New York City. The police and
FBI used a tactic we saw after nine to eleven
where they, you know, infiltrated them with undercover operatives who
would suggest doing crazy shit and then use those suggestions,

(14:01):
like from the undercover cops to like build a case.
One of the undercover cops had also infiltrated Malcolm X's
inner circle. When Malcolm X was shot, the person who's
giving him CPR and mouth to mouth is this guy
who was actually an undercover cop who also worked and

(14:23):
like helped them build the case against the Panther twenty one.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Where's that? How's that guy doing? He must know?

Speaker 3 (14:30):
Right?

Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, he's great.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
They didn't know it at the time, but they were
being targeted by co intel pro which is basically the
full might of the US government intelligence community. You know,
the same US intelligence that like spent the twentieth century
toppling entire nations was being turned on the Black Panther Party.

(14:55):
The only reason we know about it now is that
a group of radicals like literally broke into an FBI
office and like found a cash of documents revealing that
there was this massive intelligence operation that was targeting them.
But her court case was ongoing. When she learned she
was pregnant with Tupac, she represented herself had like this

(15:18):
heroic moment at the trial where she cross examined one
of the undercover cops and she's like, so, when you
were sleeping with women in the Black Panther Party, were
you a copper a panther? And when you would like
stand up in the meetings wild eyed saying let's go
kill someone?

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Were you a copper a panther?

Speaker 4 (15:39):
Then?

Speaker 1 (15:40):
And then and then like she was also like, okay,
so did you ever see me carry a gun?

Speaker 2 (15:46):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (15:46):
No?

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Did you ever see me deal drugs? Do you ever
see me like plan a bomb or work with bombs? No?

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Did you ever see me like advocate on behalf of
the sick, work a food bank, like all these things
that they were doing, And like got this under cover
cop who was also like furious, you know, was probably
like going through some internal struggle at the time, was
probably doing a lot of like the end of the

(16:13):
Jinx burping at the like up on the stage. They said,
he was like so angry that he was like fucking
spitting like as he spoke, but like basically like backed
him into a corner. Just the courage of this moment
for she represented herself despite the fact that like other
members of the party were like this, this is a
bad idea. Also, this is like right after her her

(16:36):
trial starts, right after the FBI like murders Fred Hampton,
Like there's it's at the height of them being targeted
and just horrific shit happening to the Black Panther parties,
she represents herself. She does an amazing job. They also
note that, like the CoP's case is just wildly full

(16:59):
of shit. They used like their members of the Black
Panther Party at the time, who were like I would
say dynamite like as a like saying cool, like that's
a that's a cool thing, which was a slang that
we used at the time. They would be like they're
planning dynamite. They also had they had a slang for
weed called brother Rugi, and the FBI had Brother Rugi

(17:24):
as a co conspirator in the case.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
They also like, did they have Jimmy Walker on charge?
I don't mind.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
I just used that phrase to mean things are cool,
things are all right. But yeah, they were doing a
lot of work, like if any was like really a
strong proponent, Like behind the first patient Bill of Rights
there a kid had gone to a local hospital with
sickle cell and they turned him away and we're like, here,
take some aspirin, You're probably fine, And she just took

(18:00):
the kid back to the hospital and was like, we're
not leaving here until you deliver healthcare.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
And then like stayed.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
Got to know the doctors worked with them to create
this patient Bill of Rights until there was like a
healthcare system that wouldn't require an advocate for every single
black patient to be treated like a human. So yeah,
just like a lot of the progressive shit that like

(18:31):
she all are still looking for and talking about, She's
just incredible. She's like really amazing. Tupac is born June sixteenth,
nineteen seventy one, less than a month after a Fanny
and her co defendants are acquitted of all one hundred
and fifty six charges, so she successfully defends them it's

(18:52):
this huge news story everybody's celebrating, and less than a
month later, Tupac is born. She names him Tupac Amarusha Kor.
According to her, the nickname was in honor of the
last Inca chief to be torture, brutalized and murdered by
Spanish conquistadors. And she said she wanted him to know

(19:14):
that African Americans aren't the first people this has happened too,
so like giving some like broad historical.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
Because his real name was like Masani, right and then
it changed it after Karishlsane Crooks is his name on
his birth certificate, right, right, right, but he's immediately.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Like Tupac Amarusha Kor right.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
And in nineteen seventy five, she marries Matulushakur, who's a
prominent black liberation activist with a degree an acupuncturer who
provided holistic health care to the local black community and
eventually is one of the FBI's ten most wanted for

(19:58):
his potential involvement in a robbery in which two police
officers and a guard were killed. But everything around this
time is really hard to know what actually happened because
of co intel pro.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
His levy accusations against anyone that were like, dude, I
hate this acupuncturist, Yes, exactly from him for some shit.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
But so Tupac grows up like having FBI agents come
to his middle school lunch room to ask if he'd
seen his mom's husband, you know, because he's like a
ten most wanted person, and then a lot of people
who are His godfather was elmer Geronimo Pratt, who spent

(20:42):
twenty seven years in prison for the robbery and murder
of a teacher in nineteen ninety one. It was ruled
that the DA's office and LAPD withheld evidence denying him
of a fair trial. So yeah, co intel pro's all
over the place. It's like impossible to tell what wastually happening.
But a lot of the people who are convicted of

(21:03):
various crimes at this time for being part of the
Black Panther Party were later acquitted, but they were just
set up and assassinated ceaselessly. So Tupac is growing up.
He's writing poetry, He's there's a lot of stuff like
later in his rhymes where he just like talks about

(21:24):
being like having a really like unhappy childhood and like
being really like everybody around him is like he's a
ray of sunshine. But he talks about just like not
really being able to cope and like being extremely unhappy
and being in hell, like inside his own head when
he's a when he's a child, after his mom successfully

(21:48):
defends herself, there's like a lot of money from well
wishers and like people are like putting the family up.
But then the eighties happens and suddenly the political tides
turned and they fall into poverty. And he estimates that
he like moved eighteen times by the time he got
to middle school. Around high school, they moved to Baltimore.

(22:12):
He transfers to Baltimore School for the Arts and described
it as heaven. I learned ballet, poetry, jazz, music, everything, Shakespeare, acting, everything,
as well as academics. He played the mouse King and
the Nutcracker, and once when he was being interrogated mouse.

Speaker 4 (22:28):
King, Yeah, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Once when he was interrogated by the police in a deposition,
they asked if he was gang affiliated, and he was like,
I'm the head of the mouse gang and the Nutcracker
and basically was like, I'm a I'm a theater kid man,
like essentially, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:50):
The mouse King runs run some shit. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
Yeah, I mean that's interesting to get because Baltimore too
is kind of a real early formative experience from like
his writing about it too, and like the schools that
he went to. I think that's when a lot obviously
through his upbringing and his parents, like he learned a
lot about the racial disparity. But in Baltimore it was
very clear there were like two Baltimore's that you could

(23:15):
live in White Baltimore or Black Baltimore.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Yeah, And I think that's like it's.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
Funny because every with his music, like he contains all
these multitudes, but you can track all of these experiences
along his way. They're like, yep, he's authentically understanding all
of these experiences that allow him to sort of express
all that yeah in his lyrics.

Speaker 4 (23:36):
Yeah, it's like the movie Hairspray.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, I was just going to say that his life's
a lot like the movie Hairspray.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
I can't wait for Nicky Blonski to play him in.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
The one scene from his childhood that he's talked about
a couple of times is he used to sit outside
by the street lights and read the autobiography of Malcolm
X because they didn't have lights inside their house and
that his mom always raised him to think that he
was the Black Prince of the Revolution. At the Baltimore

(24:08):
School for the Performing Arts, he befriended a classmate named
Jada Pinkett. She's said, like, when she talks about their relationship,
I feel bad for Will Smith. Yeah, it's like it's
like someone being like that was my real, my true love.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
She loves to do that to Will Smith for some reason.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
And he must be into it too.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
Will Smith, though she's been pretty consistent about how she
talks about it because she's like he was.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Like a brother.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
Yeah, it's like the friendship we had, it's unlike anything
you could ever experience, something you only get once in
a life.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Whenever I read those, I'm like, I think some relationships
you just can't really give a hit too.

Speaker 4 (24:50):
He encompasses so much an incredible rapper.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah, I know, it's so funny just to be like,
put and Will Smith on a just next to each
other as rappers.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
You're like, yeah, who if he does live, whose career
is like doesn't exist in the same way.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
I don't know. I wonder if they would have just
had beef over Jada.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
Yeah, maybe, and then Will would have been absolutely ethered
in a rap battle if.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
It went there, because then Will Smith would have been like,
h you want me to get me and You're like, buddy, buddy, buddy, buddy, buddy,
you're a guy. You should have gone to MIT and
been an engineer.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
He moves to California in nineteen eighty eight, does not
immediately click with the California scene despite all this West
Side business. He says, I was the outsider. I dressed
like a hippie. They teased me all the time. His friend,
it's kind of cute, like he had this friend at
the Performing Art School in Baltimore who is just this
like nerdy white dude who like made all his clothes

(25:53):
for him. Like he was like made like weird kind
of like handmade clothes for Tupac, and Tupac like was
like yeah, yeah, like jeans with like little designs and
stuff on it. And then he like comes out to
California wearing that ship.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Now, I was like.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yo, especially in the eighties because he went but he
was in Mill Valley right when he met to.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
So you can wear jeans with little designs in norcl yeah, yeah,
Mill Valley, you know, on their jeans and.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, so at first he he does eventually go to
a performing arts school in uh NorCal but he said
that when he first came out, I was the outsider.
I dressed like a hippie. They teased me all the time.
I couldn't play basketball. I didn't know who basketball players were.
I was the triumph for the street gangs. They used
to jump me things like that. I thought I was

(26:45):
weird because I was writing the poetry and I hate
it myself again, Like that really seems to be a
lot of his childhood is like he's very uncomfortable in
his own skin. I used to keep it a secret.
I was really a nerd.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
This man if he was alive and still saying this
would be so important for like young black kids. You
care about that, Yeah, like him truly be like I
didn't know who athletes were. I was so in the
arts and like philosophy and things like that. I fit
in Yet here I am.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
So he starts rapping.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
He does like kind of a lot of his early
stuff is like he'll talk about the violence cit he's
witnessing around him, but there will still be like he
has An early song is called get the Gauge, but
he writes a disclaimer at the top composer's note, in
no way is this song meant to stir up violence.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
So he's like still. You know.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
This is when he goes to this performing art school
in northern California where there there's this like really long
interview with him at this time where he just like
seems like a totally different kid, and he's like working
at Roundtable Pizza and like working as a grocery bagger,
and like he's like annoyed that.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
He has to.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
He's like, they said, they send us to school, but
they don't pay, you know, like it it's almost like
some of his complaints at that time are like like
reminiscent of like high school class president things. They just
send us here to give us something to do while
they're working, and uh, stuff like that. But around this

(28:25):
time he also writes his poem that is fucking awesome
called government Assistance or My Soul. It says it would
be like a panther asking a panther hunter for some meat.
All high school dropouts are not dumb, All unemployed aren't lazy,
and there are many days I hunger, but I would
go hungry and homeless before the American government gets my soul. Yeah, yeah,

(28:49):
fucking rules like his politics are so fucking like on
point and like ahead of their time.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
You know.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
Also shows like you know, like I think we all
were all products of like the homes we come from too,
and like what you hear ambiently, the discussions, the kinds
of discussions you hear, and it's clear like comes from
a revolutionary home. And then I just again, I keep
thinking about Jada and will and like Jaden Smith, like
remember those early interviews him and Willow would do and

(29:16):
they're like the thing about.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Molecules is yeah, like the fuck up?

Speaker 3 (29:20):
Yeah child, you know what I mean in tubax like
I will never give my soul to the fucking American
government that needs me.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, okay, okay, very different kinds of conversation happening.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
So he uses his connections of this time to get
in touch with the manager of the rap group Digital Underground.
He auditions for Shock G with a rap called The
Case of the Misplaced Mike that feels very like nursery rhyme.
It's like they finally did it, they stole the mic.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
I grip.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Now that it's gone, I'm feeling tired and sick. Yes,
but he joins the group. They're like, this guy's definitely
got something you can like see, like his wrapping is
like still eighty, like a little in the eighties, but
like he's just so fucking like his stage presence and

(30:06):
like even just you know, he's got I think, one
of the best voices in the history of rap, even then,
even when it's like kind of singsongy nursery rhyme. So
he joins Digital Underground, starts recording his own demo, the
nineties hit. He's touring with Digital Underground, he becomes friends
with Rosie Perez, then a dancer for Heavy d. There's

(30:27):
a good section in the Dear Mama documentary where there's
just like footage from these this era when he's touring
with Digital Underground, and this is when he's like up
all night smoking blunts, and then like they wake up
in the morning, he's like already filled like three notebooks
with like rhymes and poetry. And then they get on

(30:49):
the tour bus and he makes them listen to Mariah
Carry because he like always wanted to have like emotion
in his music, and he was like he would just
like listen to everything he was. It was early Mariah
So nineteen ninety Mariah Carey. I think it was like
the emotions. Yeah, yeah, you gotta say feeling emotions.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
Yeah yeah, guys, we need more emotion and or check
this track out by Mariah.

Speaker 4 (31:14):
Carey and while Mariah's like, guys, we need rap on
my song exactly.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
In February of nineteen ninety one, he makes his film
debut with Digital Underground in the movie I always remember
Juice as his film debut, but it was.

Speaker 4 (31:29):
Actually Nothing but Trouble.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
Nothing but Trouble Danfroid's directorial debut and also his final
film as a director.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
You guys have seen that movie, right, I have. It's
the serious movie, way.

Speaker 4 (31:42):
Serious movie ever made.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
It is like so grotesque.

Speaker 4 (31:48):
It is a nightmare. I mean, I know some people
who love it because it's so scary.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
But it is it's like such a specific nightmarish vision.

Speaker 4 (31:57):
It's kind of like long eighties too, where it's like
it's gonna be the nineties in a minute. But some
people don't know that.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
You know, but what first time one of his verses
appears on a Digital Underground track is same song, which
is like the theme song for Nothing but Trouble.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
He appears there's like you can watch his first scene
in Nothing but Trouble, and he is the best actor
like in the scene, even though all he has to
do is at one point, dan Aykroyd starts like riffing
on an organ and like Tupac just has to like
look and be like, damn, that's pretty good, and he
like just does does a great job.

Speaker 4 (32:39):
So Mike, you dan Akwroyd is riffing on an organ
and like the scariest process monster making ever seen.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Chevy Chase, meanwhile, is just like doing like he looks
so fucked up and bloated and like unhappy, and.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
I think its some racist shit in his mind exactly.
You can see the racist thoughts reading across the space.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
But yeah, a lot a lot of the music video
features a lot of straight to camera mugging. But chevy
Chase and then his verse doesn't make it into the movie.
But you know, in the music video, it's the whole
song and his Yeah, chevy Chase's verse doesn't make it
out of the back what they said it around this time.

(33:24):
Music executive Tom Wally brought one of Tupac's demo tapes
to work at Innerscope, which is at this time a
small record company founded by Jimmy Iving and Ted Field. Uh,
and Ted Field gives the demo to his daughter, who
is like, this is fucking awesome, and so they signed Tupac.

(33:45):
It's so weird how often it's just like the children
of entertainment.

Speaker 4 (33:48):
Executives like I'm out of touch.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah, I'm out of touch.

Speaker 4 (33:52):
Hey you tell me, Yeah, what do you think of this?
And they're like, hey, this any good kid? Yeah, So
they signed him. He records an album in like fifteen minutes,
and in October nineteen ninety one, just weeks before his
first album, tw Apocalypse Now, is coming out, he's stopped

(34:13):
by two Oakland police officers for jaywalking, as we now know,
a very racist crime in terms of how they choose
to implement it. They goed him, beat him unconscious. He
sues the Oakland Police Department for ten million dollars. The
case was settled for forty two thousand, and yeah, forty

(34:35):
two thousand. This is, by the way, the first thing
I ever hear about Tupac shakor Is is this this
story on MTV news, local rapper Tupac jacts like, that's
my favorite Jaywalker.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
It was your favorite Jaywalker?

Speaker 1 (34:54):
He raps it's but I do remember like seeing him
talk about this prime like on MTV News, and you
know that they were like making fun of his name.
They're also like mocking him for saying I can't breathe.

(35:17):
Like a lot of there's a lot of shit throughout
this where his like interaction and like abuse of the
hands of police is like you know, rhymes with a
lot of the stuff that has since become very famous
for horrifying reasons. They're mocking him for saying he can't breathe.
Later on, like what a cop says that he was
like going to run him down with his car, which,

(35:40):
as we've seen, the police love to use that as
an excuse for just murdering someone in their car, and like, well,
he was basically using a weapon because he was driving
a car. But he talks in the documentary about how
when he goes to sleep at night, he like those
cops are on him again and again, and like he's

(36:03):
just like think about what he's already experienced at this
age at the hands of cops. Like being questioned in
middle school being you know, having your.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
Basically like father figure.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
You know, you're the guy who is your mom's husband,
who's always around, like have to go on the lamb
because Cohen Telpro is like putting him on the FBI
Top ten list and then being beaten so bad. This
is actually at a time when like the stress from this.
Jada Pinkett says that like he kept it quiet, but

(36:40):
like he developed alopecia from this, and this is when
he starts shaving his head. And it's not like a
fashion choice. It's because, like Hess, the stress was like
giving him like bald spots.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
Damn, And here I am just with male powder of baldness.
I wish I could lie about some shit.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
Okay, Jada also have alopecia, Yeah, Jada, she was like
his was even worse than mine.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
So Will Smith is always like, damn, who am I
even to this woman?

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Fucking nothing? Yeah, a sperm donor.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
One of the themes that gets a lot of attention
from his first album is killing of police officers, but
he points out it's always in the context of self
defense on on these early tracks.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Yeah, because there's a guy who like shot a cop
and did his lawyer try and be like he was
inspired by Tupac Your Honor?

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Yes, yeah, yeah, that comes a little bit later, but yeah,
there's they basically try to do the you know, backmasking
like Py Meddle thing with him where they like blame
him specifically music.

Speaker 4 (37:47):
Yeah, yes, the music made him do it.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Rend Has Got a Baby is the big song from
the first album, which is inspired by a newspaper story
he read about a twelve year old who was impregnated
by her own cousin through the baby into an incinerator.
When he was growing up, one of his punishments was
to have to read the New York Times.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
His mom was, Yeah, she.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Was like, you specifically go over there and read about
how you're evil for defending Palestine. But he got exposed
to reading the news, and then that became a lifelong habit,
and he's a voracious reader. When he's in prison, he's
like taking down two books a day, which is when
he reads Machabelli and decides to fake his own death.

(38:34):
Is my version of things. He does like have a
lot of sort of black power movement messaging in his
early tracks and kind of throughout he'll always like name
drop different people like from the Black Panther Party who
are on the run. He frequently referenced Latasha Harlan's, who

(38:56):
was the fifteen year old black girl who was shot
in La and her murder received a particularly light sentence.
Keep your Head Up opens with the text dedicated to
the memory of Latasha Harlan's. It's still on. So she
was a fifteen year old girl who was in a
grocery store in a Korean like shop owner shot her

(39:19):
in the head, and the police like convicted her and
then the judge was like, yeah, we're gonna put her
on probation, and like Tupac would talk about how the
punishment was on par with like what is given two
people for harming a dog, you know, right, And yeah,
he was just like always aware of how completely fucked
the situation was and the wrongs that were being done.

(39:42):
And yeah, I just think the resistance of the of
the past couple decades looks looks a lot different if
he's still around. But for instance, that crime, I hadn't
realized like they upheld that sentencing like a week before
the La riot. So that was like in concert with the.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Simmering tensions, as they would say in the La Times.
That's right.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
So in January nineteen ninety two, Ernest Dickinson's Juice was released,
marking Tupac's movie star debut. Played the role of Bishop.
The film is successful, gross is over twenty million dollars
in The New York Times says he's the film's most
magnetic figure. As we mentioned already, like I think he

(40:32):
would definitely have an oscar if he had survived. Did
you know he he read for the part of Bubba Gump, which,
like that's crazy to me even then, Like he was
like for that, yeah, hee, like.

Speaker 4 (40:47):
A Forrest Gump type figure.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, had a depiction of like when Forrest
was at that Black Panther meeting, there's like a little
baby Tupac somewhere in the background.

Speaker 4 (40:58):
So Forrest Gump goes to a Black Panther meeting. I'm
only at once. Oh my god, it is the one
time I saw it. I think I the whole time,
I was just going what.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Oh no, it's a very intentionally dismissive. Yeah. So when
he goes when Forrest goes to Washington, d C.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
First of all, he like gets off the bus and
there's just all these lines of protesters, Like the way
they represent the counterculture movement is like a bunch of
lines of protesters just getting in lines and moving around
for the sake of moving around, just kind of aimlessly.
But when he goes to the Black Panther Party headquarters,
there's like this guy who's playing one of the leaders

(41:39):
who's like speaking angrily at him, just is just like
speechifying in his direction, and Forrest Gump sees like Jenny
get hit her or whatever, and is like, I'm gonna
go beat up the guy hit her, and he walks
away and the guy keeps yelling at the same spot
Forrest Gump was in like he's an anger robot and
like that he he like doesn't even notice that Forrest

(42:02):
Gump has gone, and it's it's just such a fucking
It just reveals such a deep unwillingness to uh view
black the Black Panther Party as like actual people who
have actual complaints and instead is just like they're just
like being angry for the sake of being angry.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
There NPCs was was he was, yeah, were they willing
to confront what society had to reckon with there? And
the depiction is like, we get it. Remember these people
they were what were they mad about? Yeah, it's sort
of like what that whole scene feels like, that's so crazy.

Speaker 4 (42:39):
That movie won so many Oscars.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
I don't know. Yeah, if Tupac had.

Speaker 4 (42:43):
Been Bubba Gump, it would have been different.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
If things would have been different. Tom Hanks's crew would
be over.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Yeah, acted off the screen so hard, the whole shrimp
shrimp stew, but like with more fucking anger, like shrimp
gumbo a little more.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
I don't think he had range. I think Robert z
Vegas would would not have been able to deal with
Tupac's real mines.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
You know, he had like fifteen minutes but to prep
for that juice audition.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Yeah, everything about like he just does things so quick.
It also put shed some light because I was going
back and listened to all eyes on me and like
some of the guest verses that I've always I've always
been like, yeah, this is like not that great like
the other people. Apparently he would make people write their
verse and perform it in like fifteen minutes. He would

(43:34):
just be like, come on, come on, go go go,
like you can kind of tell what's your problem.

Speaker 4 (43:39):
It doesn't everyone have just an endless well of inspiration.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, endless well of inspiration that you're just constantly in
touch with and ready to go. Like he recorded like
two of the best songs on that album, uh like
fifth within fifteen minutes of getting to the Judeo less
than twelve hours after still being in prison.

Speaker 4 (44:05):
Like he was just like he had a lot, He
had a lot to say, He had.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
A lot to say.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
So in nineteen ninety two, he moves to Los Angeles
and starts hanging out with gangsters and you know, people
in the bloods and crips and draws a lot of
inspiration from them. His road manager Man Man later said
he started hanging around thugs he would suck it out

(44:31):
of them and then use that in his music and
his acting. And yes, but like he that's just how
I feel like he exists. Like he's just pulling whatever
is around him out out of it and like he's
you know, we talked about that with like Marilyn Monroe
and like the borgeous story about that theorizes that Shakespeare

(44:54):
is like this empty vessel for like different characters and
stories to flow through, and like feels like he he
kind of had a bit of that, but he can do.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
It in such a way that like you'd think you
were like you were a little artchy kid and now
you're a thug. It's like, but his upbringing is identical
to all just terribly oppressed black people in this country.
So it's like it's not that far of a jump
to connect to that anger and rage that maybe would
have you would have been in a gang, but he

(45:22):
was just more in the book. So I think that's
I remember always being like that was like one of
the first sort of like myths people would tear down
about Tupac when I was younger.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
It was like, you know, he's like from the East
cost he's not even from the West coast.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Also, he's like he did ballet, yeah, And I'm like, yeah,
but even everything I see this is so authentic, Like
is the mouse king King the mouse King bro.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
So he around this time, buys a gun, starts gaining muscle,
starts getting tattoos. This is when he gets the thug
life tattoo.

Speaker 4 (45:52):
Well, so you got to remember he's like in his
early twenties. People are changing rapidly. Oh well, like, oh
yeahart acting a different way. It's like, yeah, so do.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
A lot everyone. Yeah, the fifteen lives he leads are
like the ten different careers that he spawns, like are
all happening in a three year period, like from twenty
one to twenty four when he dies.

Speaker 4 (46:17):
He has so many goes in that short period of time.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
But shout out a Daggo's tattoo in Houston, Texas where
he gets the thug life tattoo.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
So this is what I means, right, Was that what
thug life stands for? Yeah? The hate you give little
infants fucks everyone.

Speaker 4 (46:33):
I did not know.

Speaker 3 (46:34):
And that's why the book The Hate You Give is
name The Hate You Give after Tupac's tattoo, because this
was a huge part of his worldview was that the
criminalization and you know, inhumane treatment of young black children
manifests in creating people like it has a boomerang effect
on society that affects everyone. And so he was really

(46:56):
that was like, you know, towards the end of his career,
that's when he was really really get like leaning into
some real societal change type shit. It was like he
was like, no, I really want to make thug life
this philosophy. I want to mainstream this for society because
now I have the platform with my with my fame
and my rapping to really also go after something I
really believe in, which is equity. And yeah, like the

(47:19):
you know, the author of The Hate You Give talks
about that a lot about how she was inspired just
by hearing him talk about that tattoo, and it was like,
holy shit, Like what a fucking have you no idea?

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Yeah, off the Dome is always ready to like give
a treatise on like you know, shit like that that
is you know, really deep and well thought out.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
And you know, there's footage of him because.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
They there are points at this time where the Black
Panther Party or you know, similar movements are like we
should bring him into the movement, like make him the
new leader of the new Black Panther Party. And he's
like going to these speeches with like all these older
people and he's just like, look, I'm gonna say fuck.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
Sorry, just I apologize. I'm going to say fuck, but
I can'not say fuck.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
They're just like giving these extemporaneous speeches that are like
fucking amazing.

Speaker 4 (48:12):
And they're like dynamite. Yeah, They're like, hey, this guy's dynamite.
And then Brad's fielding this is when Ronald Ray Howard,
the teenager kills the Texas State trooper and dan Quayle
says that the album to Apocalypse Now must be withdrawn,
saying it has no place in our society. And at

(48:35):
this time Tupac says this about his family and my family.
Every Blackmail with the last name of Shakur that ever
passed the age of fifteen has either been killed or
put in jail. There are no Blackmail Chakors out right now,
free breathing, without bullet holes on them or cuffs on
his hands.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
None.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
And then from the New Yorker article about that used
that following that quote, the leaders of the black nationalist
movement to which the other Chaquors belonged, had been virtually eliminated,
largely through the efforts.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Of the FBI.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
Hey, the FBI always always the villain in these stories,
whether it be Marilyn Monroe.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
Or It's going to be such a hard rebrand for them.
I don't know what they're gonna do, but.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
It's like also wild just to think too.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Like with that dan Quayle's statement, like Tupac's whole inspiration
for two Apocalypse Now was like I'm trying to I'm
just expressing what the experiences for young black men. That's
what it is. This isn't me inciting anything. This is
me just accurately trying to depict what my life is like.

Speaker 4 (49:45):
Also to call it two apocalypse now, yeah, like apocalypse now,
which is also you know, the FBI was mad about
Apocalypse Now too because it showed that war sucks.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Right Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
And then to have like will be like this place
has a place in society, I think it's just still
sort of indicative of where we still are in terms
of our reckoning with just people of color, especially Black
American people, to be like this thing that is them
expressing the oppression that they're experiencing.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
This has no place, like, this is no place in
society exactly to.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
Sugar Paw, honey Bunch, you know that I love you,
you know what I mean? Like that's and I think
that's what really important too about him because he also
felt that responsibility and he's like, man, fuck it, if
the entire media is going to just come at me
for saying this, then it is what it is.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
But I'm not going to stop.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
He There are multiple times throughout this where I'm like,
I guess the US government wasn't directly responsible for killing Tupac,
but they must have been so glad that he was
dead because there's so much about him that is so
powerful and in a way that is everything they feared,

(50:59):
like all at work they put into fucking co intel
pro and like holding down the Black Panther Party like that.
He must have scared the shit out of them.

Speaker 4 (51:10):
Yeah, I mean, they can never make the US government
look cool.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
No, they definitely can't.

Speaker 4 (51:15):
They certainly try, but they.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
So this was something I knew, that he was cast
a menace to society and fired during pre production, and
that he then assaulted Alan Hughes, one of the Hughes
brothers who directed that movie and who directs the Dear
Mama documentary. There's like a fun part where they're like,
all right, we're gonna turn the cameras around and now
we're going to ask you about the time that Tupac

(51:38):
beat the shit.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
Out of you.

Speaker 4 (51:41):
But he he was like it was an honor.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
He was also right because you guys have seen menaster society. Yeah,
they cast him, They cast Tupac as the mild mannered
nation of Islam friend.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Yeah, though I.

Speaker 4 (51:56):
Could see him doing it because he is such a
good actor.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
He is a good actor.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
But like dog, like I feel like he's playing oh dog,
it's a I don't know. I like that was my
favorite movie for many years of my life, but like
it's a move like such a like I feel like
Lorenz Tate does a great job in that movie. He's
playing Tupac essentially, Like if Tupac is the Lorenz Tate character,

(52:27):
I don't know if we would have been able to
handle it, but at the very least he is. I
think his frustration was like he didn't like that character
and was like, give me another character that is like
more in line with my vibe and they would do it.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
So ninety three, his second album comes out strictly or
strictly for my never ignorant getting goals accomplished Zee. That's
the acronym that he loves.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
He loves an acronym.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Yeah, yeah, but this has I get around on it.
Keep your head up. Some of some of his you know, classics,
I get around still so good.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
I mean, I'm shot the one who put the satin
on your pan.

Speaker 4 (53:20):
He's a magician.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
He is the looms the best talking head in the documentary,
and it's so sad that he passed.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
He's he's great and like really really just cool to
hear you talk about early tupac. Uh. Around this time,
he starts wearing red around crips and blue around bloods.
And there are like a couple of times where like
the people like man Man are like the people who
he keeps around him to like advise him, uh and

(53:53):
who are like kind of understand the streets a little
bit more, are like and that was stupid, like just
to wear right around crips and vice versa. The other
one is hanging out with this guy Haitian Jack, who
were about to get to and then the other one
was trying to leave death row. He fired the lawyer

(54:14):
who was his like basically his legal representation right before
he went to Las Vegas, and people were like, that's
not You're not going to survive that very long. So
in March, he's arrested for allegedly attacking a limo driver.
He attempts to hit rapper Chauncey Winn with a baseball

(54:34):
bat during a Michigan concert, charged with felonious assault, pleads
guilty to a lesser case. But this is kind of
what you were talking about, Miles, Like people would test
him because they heard the thing about like he used
to do ballet, and so he felt like he had
to prove how hard he was. This is when he

(54:54):
becomes a real, a real point of fascination for the
white media. There's this talking head at this time from
the Documentary's like, Tupac Shacker is a one man crime wave,
and I do I just always remember them calling him
Tupac Shacker, you know, one man crime wave. One man

(55:15):
crime wave is like a fucking coolest thing to say.

Speaker 4 (55:19):
Away, You're just one guy and you're a wave.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
March nineteen ninety three, he attends the Soul Train Music Awards,
where Rosie pres introduces him to Madonna and they have
a brief affair. July ninety three, Poetic Justice is released
and John Singleton cast Tupac after seeing one of his
interviews on TV. It's not his like previous film work,

(55:43):
but it's just like, god damn, like every time this
guy appears on camera, he's so fascinating.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
He was going to be of higher learning too. Yeah,
and then they well then went all the arrest shit.
They were like okay no, and he was also John
Singleton was alther saying he wanted him to be in
Baby Boy.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Yea yeah when he first sought that up.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
But then it was tight guy, Like so many things,
You're like, what would that have fucking what would any
of these things have looked?

Speaker 4 (56:06):
Like?

Speaker 1 (56:06):
So many what ifs? Of Like man, he would have
been so good in that. He meets Snoop at the
Poetic Justice premiere. They become close friends. His performance is
generally praised. He's convicted of possessing a loaded and concealed
weapon in la around this time, sends to forty five
days on a work crew. October nineteen ninety three, he's

(56:28):
arrested for shooting two off duty police officers in Atlanta
after he witnesses them harassing a black man who, like
he pulls up so he's coming from a concert, pulls up.
There's these two plain clothes white guys beating up this
black guy on the street. They have a gun. Like

(56:49):
he starts yelling at them. They use their gun to
like smash his window, the window of his car, and
then I just want to read from this biography. He
turned to everyone in his car, all the while keeping
his eyes on the man and his gun, saying, someone
give me the gun. No one moved. He yelled again,
someone gave me my gun. Suddenly, one of the men

(57:10):
used the butt of his gun to smash one of
the windows in Tupac's car, before both took off running
the victim, the black man, who had been punched to
the ground moments before, crawled to his car and drove away.
Hupac reached into his car so he gets out, walks
around to the passenger side where his gun is. Gets
his gun, quickly scanned the street, saw the two men,

(57:34):
took a knee in a military stance, and aimed his gun. Everybody,
get the fuck down, he called out. Then he fired.
According to The New York Times, two bullets found their
way into his targets. Both men were knocked to the ground.
One was struck in the buttocks, the other in the abdomen. Then,
as if none of it had just happened, Tupac invited
his entourage up to his hotel room and starts rolling

(57:56):
blunts and smoking weed and like having a party. As
his friend is like, I think those two men you
shot were cops. I'm like watch I'm out here in
the whole street is like crawling with cops, and he's
just like, all right, yeah, no, that's whatever.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
You shouldn't have been there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
This is another one of those moments where just like
everything happens at the same time, because later in the chapter,
Tupac yelled out to the room, Yo, wait a minute, everybody,
I want everybody to hear my new song. Within seconds,
Tupac's voice filled the room as Dear Mama began to play.
Dante recounted the moment, He's over there, rolling up weed,

(58:35):
laughing and playing music like he didn't just shoot two people. Shortly,
a knock at the door started everyone in the room
except Tupac, who was calmly rolling a blunt. Someone looked
through the peep hole and announced it's the police, and
he said, okay, fine, let him in. He recalled, I said,
what what do you mean, let him in? You just
killed two people outside the moment the police entered the suite,

(58:57):
they looked right at Tupac and they said, you come on.
Popoc got up and made no bones about it. He said,
I did it, Yeah, I did it. He was arrested
and released on fifty five thousand dollars bond. There's also
in the documentary talks about the shooting. He drops to
one knee, took aim and like the guy who is
in the car is like, dude, what are you doing?
Like you can't hit them from there. They're like forty

(59:20):
five feet away and they're like running away. But his
mom had just gotten sober and moved down to Atlanta
with him and they had a shooting range in the backyard,
so he had been working on it. He like pulled
up from the logo and just like nailed these guys
in the ass. He seems like he's going to be
in a lot of trouble for this, but then it
turns out that they're off duty, they're drunk, and the

(59:41):
gun that they used to yeah, it was stolen from
the evidence locker, so they can't do shit to him.
And it's almost like he knew that. He's just like, yeah,
fuck you.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
So this is when he meets Biggie for the first time.
An LA drug dealer introduced them and he whenever he
was out in LA he would sleep on Tupac's couch.
But like Biggie was a huge Tupac fan. He they
would like play with unloaded guns in his backyard, because again,
they're like kids essentially, right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
You're want to play with my guns in my backyard?

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
Guns? Yeah, guns. And around this time, Biggie asks Tupac
to be his manager. He's like, I don't really like
puff like he whoa whoa, whoa whoa whoa.

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
Yeah, Like I'm getting a little bit of a sinister
vibe from.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
But is like, that guy is going to make you
a star. You should actually stick with him, which he
was right, but to a point. Unfortunately, Yeah, inflection point.
What this is? This is a big inflection point. In
nineteen ninety three, he temporarily moves to New York City
to film Above the Rim. As he's preparing for the role,

(01:00:57):
he starts hanging out with Jahcasian Jack Agnant, who is
a music promoter who everybody who's from New York is like.
Biggie is like, dude, you should not be hanging around
that guy. He's like, really fucked up?

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
What's the worst? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
And then that November, So this is from a New
Yorker article on Tupac on November fourteenth, nineteen ninety three,
jack Agnant and Tupac went to Nell's, the downtown New
York club. A friend of Egnant's identified only as Tim,
introduced Tupac to a nineteen year old woman named Ayana Jackson.

(01:01:39):
She expressed her interest in him. They danced together, she
performed oral sex on the corner of the dance floor.
They went to his hotel room, where they had intercourse.
The next day, she called and left many messages on
his voicemail, saying, among other things, how much she'd enjoyed
his prow with. Four days later, on November eighteenth, she
returned to his hotel suite. There she found Tupac, man

(01:01:59):
man Agnot, and an unidentified friend of Egnant's. They all
watched television in the living room, and then she and
Tupac went into the bedroom. Later, the three other men
entered the room. What ensued as disputed Jackson claims that
she was forced to perform oral sex on Tupac while
Ignot partly undressed her and grabbed her from behind, and

(01:02:20):
that they then made her perform oral sex on Egnant's
friend while Tupac held her. Tupac claimed that he left
the room when the other men entered and did not
witness whatever happened in any case. Jackson testified that she
left the suite and tears and that Egnot told her
to calm down. Thing that he would hate to see
what happened to Mike Tyson happened to Tupac. That is

(01:02:41):
a woman charging homosexual assault, which is what Jackson promptly did.
She's some of the hotel security officers who called the police. Tupac, Manman,
and Egnot were arrested, So he at the very least says,
you know, I didn't do it, but I was responsible
for not stopping happened essentially, and there's a lot of

(01:03:04):
weird shit with Egnot. So his lawyer is somebody from
the patrolman's Benevolent Association, so he's like a cop. Lawyer
moved that his client's case be severed from Tupac's on
the ground that only Tupac had been charged with the
weapons offenses and that therefore the indictment was improperly joined

(01:03:24):
and the prosecutor did not oppose the motion, which Tupac's
lawyer says is highly unusual, and the judge granted it.
So it's there are some questions about like whether this
was a setup, but you know, the victim has always
said like I was not part of a setup, and
like this is what happened, and you know, I think

(01:03:46):
we believe her that, you know, she was she was assaulted.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
Yeah, and there was like a huge settlement too after
that too, because yeah, yeah, were yeah, some of the
charges were dropped. And I remember Tupac went on like
Darcinio Hall Show after that, and you know it was
like he said, quote I like, I was hurt that
a woman would accuse me of taking something from her
because you know, then he did this thing.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
I was like, I was raised in a house full
of females.

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
But it's like, dude, yeah, you like, at worst, you're
a fucking predator.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
At best, you're an ain't ship man. Yeah, yeah exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:04:24):
So he was like, hey, I just put up dear Mama.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Listen to this, Yes, yeah, listen to a.

Speaker 3 (01:04:29):
Man who wrote dear mama do such a thing. And
it's like, well, sir, this.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Yeah, Like, as he is waiting to go on trial,
he is filming Bullet with Mickey Rourke and Mickey Rourke
become friends. I start wrecking shiite. Mickey Rourke recalled, we'd
be crossing the street to go to a club, you'd
already hear the bouncers say, they're here together. What are
we supposed to do us? Mickey Rourke and Tupa apparent.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
Like they when Tupac was in jail, him and Mickey
Rourke were like regularly writing letters, and Mickey Rourke's always like, man,
Tupac was there for me when I was really down.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
This guy have my back. You're like, what a fucking
wild crew. Yeah. He also received letters from Jim Carrey
and the one that meant the most for some reason
is Tony Danza wrote him a letter.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
I was like, hey, I really liked your album Keep
your head up.

Speaker 4 (01:05:26):
To He's a seventies kid. He probably watched Who's the Boss,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
He's also He was also close with the Lanis Morisset.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Yeah, he and Alanis Morisset were going to open a
restaurant together.

Speaker 4 (01:05:39):
Yeah wow, what kind of food would they have at
the restaurant? I wonder Canadian California and California and yeah, salad.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
So this is around the time. Because of his multiple
court cases, he also has many family members relying on
him financially. His bank account is shrinking, and during jury
deliberation for his sexual assault trial. He is recording a
guest for a rapper named Little Sean. Yeah, and a

(01:06:22):
Little Sean's a friend of Diddy and Biggie. He's going
to Quad Studios. Little Sean's manager is Jimmy Henchman Rosemand,
who knew Tupac through Haitian Jack and he's the one
who made the offer. Around this time, Tupac is openly
in the media being like, weird that Haitian Jack is

(01:06:46):
like being treated so well, almost like he's a government operative.
And this is the guy who's like so dangerous. Everyone's like,
don't don't fucking hang out with that guy. He's like
openly being like, guy's a cop and to anyone who
will listen. So he comes to the studio. At first,
he has some hesitation because there's a bunch of dudes

(01:07:09):
in the lobby wearing army fatigues. But rapper Litlsey's yells
down to him that biggie's upstairs and that Diddy's there
as well. So he goes in. The guy's pull guns
on him and there's a shooting. There's like some question
over like how many times he was shot. Some people

(01:07:30):
say that he accidentally shot himself and everything else was
like getting pistol whipped and beat down, but he was shot.
Still went up upstairs to the recording studio after being
shot and was like everyone was really weird, Like nobody
would kind of look at me. Everybody seemed really surprised

(01:07:51):
to see me. This is where he starts to suspect
that it was Biggie and Puff who had set him up. Right,
So he goes to the hospital and then checks himself
out within a few hours.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Yep, it's just like I'm out to go to the
home girl's house.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
Yeah, Jasmine Guy goes and goes to the house of
Jasmine Guy. Immediately after this, like he goes to the
courthouse with like massive bandages around his head and you know,
all fucked up in a wheelchair. He's acquitted of the
three sodomy counts in the chart for legal possession of
a firearm, convicted of two counts of sexual abuse. His

(01:08:32):
bail was set at three million dollars. As time goes on,
he came to believe the Biggie new the shooting at
Quad Recording Studio is going to happen, and he starts
receiving a lot of letters in the mail, being like, Hey,
this is what I'm hearing. I'm hearing that they knew
what happened. He's also certain that the song Hushatcha is

(01:08:53):
about him, but that song was actually recorded before the
shooting actually happened, so I don't know. It's knowing what
we know about Puff, it seems like anything's possible. It
also seems very plausible that Haitian Jack was not thrilled
with him, saying that he was an FBI informant and

(01:09:14):
like the person who invited him to do the verse
was someone who's in the name as literal henchman, and
he is an associate of Haitian Jack, and it would
have been easy for him to organize it as well.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
It is well though, too, like knowing who Shatcha wasn't
about that, and Trump was like, oh, okay, well, I
guess I'm just gonna have to record hit him up
now right and fully blow the fucking lid off this
thing too.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
Yeah, yeah, did you say Trump was like, did I
say that? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:09:47):
He said, well, yeah, Jesus Tupac, Yeah, I don't think
Trump has a hit him up first.

Speaker 4 (01:09:54):
You're getting your New York rappers confused.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
They Trump did sue Mickey Rourick and Tupac for like
one hundred thousand dollars for damages they did to his
hotel at the time.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
Really they were on a tear and realize he factored
into this. Yeah, he always does. Unfortunately he's for us.
Come yeah seriously.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
February seventh, nineteen ninety five, he sentenced to one and
a half to four and a half years in prison.
A few months later, the indictment against Haitian Jack is
dropped and he pleads guilty to two misdemeanors. So Tupacs
maintained his innocence in an interview, but said he should
have intervened. Even though I'm innocent of the charge they
gave me, I'm not innocent in terms of the way

(01:10:38):
I was acting. I'm just as guilty for not doing
nothing as I am for doing things. He's incarcerated the
Clinton Correctional Facility Dana Mora, Yeah, you know from Escape
from Danamora, and there's just like the guards are fucking
horrible to him. There's an anecdote from somebody who goes
to visit him and they like do a cavity check,

(01:11:00):
go on Tupac before he goes into the room, and
then also afterday he comes out and like at the
end of the thing, like as his time's running out,
they're like, oh Tupac and like waving the gloves at him.
So it's just like fucking horrific shit. Yeah, evil, evil
shit that you know. They hated him for a very

(01:11:22):
long time, telling me these CEOs are bad people.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
I know, you believe it. I thought all the rappers
were lying when they mentioned CEOs.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
But this is when Me Against the World was released,
and this is his first album that just goes directly
to number one and stays there for four weeks. This
is one of one of my favorite albums. And yeah,
he recorded all ahead of going to jail. I always
assumed it was like partially like his prison album, but

(01:11:50):
it just because it came out while he was in prison, right,
But you know it wasn't.

Speaker 4 (01:11:53):
It's crazy to be like, Okay, I gotta get this
done before I go to jail, and.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
Then just album's doing well, Oh, oh cool, good to hear.

Speaker 3 (01:12:03):
Oh they like so many tears, great, great, so many tears.

Speaker 4 (01:12:07):
It's crazy though, too, Like the more adversity he faces,
the more creatively productive, he becomes.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
Yeah, exactly, he just and like that's just always how
he like he is activated by bullshit, Like he's activated
by anybody pushing back against him or anything that like
doesn't want him to be who he is, you know.
So because he has a lot of people depending on
him financially, you know, he gets six hundred thousand dollars

(01:12:35):
in advances for me against the World, but it's not enough.
And this is when Sug Knight starts visiting him, along
with the lawyer David Kenner. So Sug did not like
Tupac as an artist at first. He was like, oh,
he's liking to his like artsy shit, you know. But
then once Tupac started committing crimes, he was like, oh

(01:12:56):
wait a second, like the he started doing the kombucha
face Britney bro Britney Breski k So he starts courting
Tupac at a time when Dre is thinking about leaving
death Row and Snoop is on trial for murder that
I remember at the time.

Speaker 4 (01:13:14):
They gave him.

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
Yeah, murder had of course been the case that they
gave him, and I just remember everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
Being like Snoop going away for life, yeah, this is yeah, he's.

Speaker 3 (01:13:23):
And I remember like everyone's like, did you know his
name is Calvin Brotus. That's such a dorky fucking name.
I remember that was like fucking nerd. I think as
in the Murder is the Case video it had his
headstone with his with his government name on. Everyone's like
what the few I don't even know if this is
like pre internet where you just figured I don't know
his name is Snoop doggie dog.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
Yeah, and then like it's Calvin Brods Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
So he gives him a three page contract that's basically
like we'll advance you a million dollars, always advancing, never
get anything, paying plus one hundred and twenty five thousand
dollars for a purchase of a car, one hundred and
twenty thousand dollars for expenses over a year, an additional
two hundred and fifty thousand dollars for legal fees. Should

(01:14:06):
becomes your manager, Kenner is your attorney. Just all these
things that are like conflicts of interest, and people, you know,
legal analysts have like come back and been like this
could not hold up in a court of a lot
because he's like obviously doing these things under duress, but
he tells his friends, I know I'm selling my soul
to the devil. And it really it's crazy, Like within

(01:14:29):
a week of signing the deal, he's granted leave to
post bail, which the New Yorker is even like, what,
how the fuck do they do that? They're like, what
a stunning coincidence that they're just like it is truly
like signing a deal with the devil. Like all of
a sudden, just like the court system starts moving and

(01:14:49):
like the door's open on the jail that you've been
held in. You're like, yeah, well, welcome, You're free. He
gets out immediately, like gets in a rolls. Royce is on
a private jet to La on October thirteenth, nineteen ninety five.
He lands in La, goes straight to Canam Recorders, which

(01:15:10):
is Death Row Record San Fernando Valley Studio. Within forty
five minutes, he'd laid down a verse of ambitions as
a ride to finished the track that day. Plus, I
ain't mad at you, like I'll call the first day you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
Doing ambitions at the right straight out of jail, just
right out of jail. Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
He starts working for nineteen hour days just recording the
whole album, and like a flurry.

Speaker 4 (01:15:35):
You had a lot to say.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
Between his release from prison and his death less than
a year later, he cut hundreds of songs. I didn't
realize he was dead less than a year after he
left jail again, like yeah, three life till like seven years. Yeah,
laid down a career's worth of tracks and literally like
eight months. People are like, oh, so you like wrote
all these songs in jail, because how do you have

(01:15:59):
some any songs ready to go? He's like, I wrote
one song in there. I've been in the studio every
waking hour since I got out. We just keep coming
up with new songs till people start passing out. Then
we come back early in the morning and start over.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
Canam Is in North Hollywood.

Speaker 4 (01:16:14):
I think also, that's too yeah, like many of the
great recording studios.

Speaker 3 (01:16:17):
Shout out, shout out our lovely North Hollywood, look at us.
The other thing is the way people talk about it.
I would have loved to see a Chris Farley Show
interview with Tupac. So you like write all your songs
in jail or you just got a notebook? It's like,
because everyone's just so baffled by his output, his prowess,

(01:16:38):
and just like how much I feel.

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):
Like I would even ask a question like that.

Speaker 3 (01:16:42):
Way, So you you got a lot of notebooks and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:16:46):
Cool cool.

Speaker 4 (01:16:47):
Yeah, sometimes when you're just impressed by somebody, it is
just like wow, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's all you honestly like that's kind
of the experience of doing this research.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
It's so you do that. What the fuck?

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
So sug would often be working, would just like kind
of always be where Tupac was, Like while Tupac was working,
he'd be close by also working. Then they would hang
out afterwards. He would just hand Tupac stacks of one
hundred dollars bills and they were just always together. At
one point around this time, he saves Tupac from drowning

(01:17:22):
in Cabo because the current in Cabo's like super dangerous
and Tupac decided to try swimming and shug dove in
and sit them.

Speaker 2 (01:17:32):
So like you as got pulled up by a riptide
or something.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
Yeah, yeah, that's Have you ever been to Cabo, Like
they won't let you swim down there?

Speaker 3 (01:17:38):
No, yeah, I know, there's only like the I remember
one of the first times I went, I'm like, let's
go to the beach. You're like, oh no, you can
sit on the sand. Yeah, that's right, And I was like,
what the fuck. Okay yeah, Brian de Edd Yeah, Malcolm
Jamal Warner, Yeah, in Costa Rica was a riptide.

Speaker 4 (01:17:53):
Yeah, I'm the mental image of Shug saving someone from drowning.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:17:58):
Well he's apparently if you were like, yeah, hold on,
I'm coming.

Speaker 4 (01:18:06):
Yeah, just like Sugar, like swimming out.

Speaker 1 (01:18:10):
So Sugar was a football player, then he was a
security guard and swimming is hard. Yeah, I know exactly.
But this is again. People are like, Tupac is a chameleon.
Whatever he's around, that's what he turned into. And when
he got around death Row, he became that with this

(01:18:32):
like soldier mentality. They go on a fucking tear. Death
Row does take care of his family better than Interscope did.
They put him up with the Westwood Marquis Fenn. He said,
death Row in the beginning treated us much better than innerscopeet.
But November nineteen ninety five, a wrongful death lawsuit against
Tupac was settled out of court. This one was like,

(01:18:52):
this was one of the early things. It was really
fucked up. So they were doing an event and like
the fan like started talking shit and Tupac reached for
his gun and dropped it, and then his brother picked
it up and started firing shots over the head of
the crowd to like get people back. But it like

(01:19:14):
struck a child, a six year old and killed him
in the Bay area. So this is when he settles
that out of court.

Speaker 2 (01:19:22):
I remember that was something too.

Speaker 3 (01:19:22):
They really tried to not have get out or like
was talked about very little because like the headlines were
just like Jesus.

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
So yeah, yeah, this is when the East coast West
coast shit starts to like really pop off. So Tupac
while he's in jail is being told like it was big,
it was puff. And in September of this year, a
bodyguard and friend of Suge Knight was killed after a
confrontation with Ditty December at a Christmas party, an associate

(01:19:54):
of Diddy mark Anthony Bell. It comes to a death
row Christmas party and Suge Knight is like, hey, why
don't you come back here me, me and Tupac and
you know, some other people are smoking weed back there,
and is tortured by Suge Knight who is basically like,

(01:20:17):
I want to know who killed my friend, and I
want the address of Diddy and his mother, which Suge
Knight would often like negotiate either by just like showing
you his gun like while not saying anything, or showing
you your mother's address like that was one of his
favorite negotiation tactics. So what they do in this like

(01:20:41):
back room at this Christmas party results in death Row
having to pay this guy six hundred thousand dollars settlement.
And so this is when Tupac starts saying that he
slept with Faith Evans. They work together on a song.
She denies that they ever hooked up, and by February,
he's already planning to leave death Row. Tupac's starting plans
for a production company called Euphanasia, and he's making steps

(01:21:05):
to separate his business from death Row. And then All
Eyes on Me Is released twenty seven tracks, first ever
double CD by rap artists, debuted at number one. Because
of it being two discs, it became it was like
extra profitable. It earned ten million dollars in revenue in
its first week, putting it only behind the Beatles Anthology
on the list of the most successful openings in the

(01:21:26):
history of music at that time certified Diamond with ten
million copies sold. This is when the Vibe magazine cover
story with sug Snoop Dre and Tupac posed like goodfellows
comes out.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
All yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
This is when Tupac and Biggie encounter each other at
the Soul Train Awards and Biggie like, there's reports that
Tupac pulled a gun on him. Biggie says, Nah, pock
didn't pull steel on me. He was on some tough shit.

Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
Though.

Speaker 1 (01:21:56):
I can't knock them dudes for the way they go
about their biz. They made everything seem so dramatic. I
felt the darkness when he rolled up that night.

Speaker 2 (01:22:04):
Damn.

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
He still seems like he's just a fan. He's like, man,
I can't knock him.

Speaker 3 (01:22:08):
Though.

Speaker 2 (01:22:08):
They've really got like pretty charismatic.

Speaker 3 (01:22:12):
The baseline was that they were friends, like they really
admire each other, so like, yeah, it's yeah, like, I mean,
I can totally see how even despite that, You're.

Speaker 2 (01:22:21):
Like, yeah, I mean I get it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:24):
During that spring, he films Gridlocked, and he's just like
making movies as he's like doing so much. He's doing
so much time Gridlocked is the one with uh with
Tim ro Roth where they played drug addicts. There's an
interview with Tim Roth where he's like and I was like,
oh fuck, I gotta like act it across from this musician,

(01:22:45):
and I was so bummed. And then I'm of course
bummed when I realized he's also a much better actor
than me. And then he's spending most of the summer
of nineteen ninety six filming Gang Related with Jim Belushi. Yeah, Jesus,
but that's that's one we could have not used one
of the last months.

Speaker 4 (01:23:03):
Yeah, to be filming goodlock is great though, yeah, uh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:10):
All of his performances around this time are getting like ravees.
He's also dating Kidada Jones, Quincy Jones's daughter at this time. Yeah,
so he said some wild ship, I know. So the
reason that he even meets up with her is that

(01:23:30):
Rashida Jones, famous from Many Things, wrote an open letter
to Tupac and the Source about something Tupac had said
about her father. Basically, he said that like, he's always
like marrying white women and then having these fucked up children.

Speaker 2 (01:23:47):
With him, was so against the interracial marriage shit. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:52):
Yeah, and even when when he was like talking to
there's like letters between him and Madonna where he's like,
for you, it's cool that you're like fucking me. For me,
I don't like when it says that I'm like fucking yeah.
So but yeah, he approached that Kidada thinking she was
Rashida to apologize and the two headed off. And this

(01:24:14):
is also there's a weird rumor that around this time
he called Kadata a bitch and Michael Jackson overheard him
and fought Tupac.

Speaker 2 (01:24:24):
I don't know how.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
Yeah, that Michael jackscratch sound. Yeah, there's somebody who like
went on a radio show and was basically like and
Michael Jackson whooped his ast too and.

Speaker 3 (01:24:34):
Walked on him, all over him. Then he did that
thing where he's on his toes but on Tupac's eyes.

Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
He was never right.

Speaker 4 (01:24:44):
After that, that all eyes on me.

Speaker 2 (01:24:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:24:48):
I tried to swing and then Michael did the lean
from the Moonwalker, Yeah yeah, from Smooth Criminal.

Speaker 2 (01:24:53):
Just ducked it.

Speaker 4 (01:24:54):
You know when people talk about Michael Jackson using his
real voice though, when they're like, oh, when you would
be with him, he'd be like, yeah, what's up?

Speaker 2 (01:25:03):
Yeah? Yeah, oh you thought that was real?

Speaker 4 (01:25:05):
Yeah, like he's like a different person here.

Speaker 1 (01:25:08):
I do have this quote. I just in the tradition
of the Daily's like I said, you just need you
to read this quote from Quincy Jones. I'm potentially having
Tupac as his son in law twenty twelve quote.

Speaker 2 (01:25:19):
I wasn't happy at first.

Speaker 3 (01:25:21):
He'd attacked me for having all these white wives, and
my daughter Rashida, who was at Harvard, wrote a letter
to the source taking him apart. I remember one night
I was dropping Rashida at Jerry's Delicate testen such a
deep cut for la people. Bro Jerry's Jerry's like bro.

(01:25:42):
I was elude, okay, shout out Jerry's delicate. I was
dropping Rashida at Jerry's Delicate testing and Tupac was talking
to Cadata because.

Speaker 2 (01:25:49):
He was falling in love with her.

Speaker 3 (01:25:50):
Then, like an idiot, I went over to him, put
two arms on his shoulders and said, pop, we.

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
Gotta sit down and talk. Man.

Speaker 3 (01:25:56):
If he had a gun, I would have been done,
but we talked. He aboulo. We became very close after that.
Once I was having a date at the Hotel Bell
there and he came by and told the waiter that
he would be back.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
He was going home to put on a tie, you
like lobster bisk.

Speaker 3 (01:26:14):
Just what yes, some of those, he said, he'd be
What a weird way to end that, I know, such
a weird he was going on to put.

Speaker 2 (01:26:21):
On a tie. The end, Tupac's out wearing a fuck like.

Speaker 1 (01:26:24):
I had a man to man talk with him. If
he had a gun, I would have been dead. It's like, no,
you wouldn't have. You would he would have just continued
talking to you music legends, Quincy Jones.

Speaker 3 (01:26:36):
Unless he's trying to be like he was tough talking Tupac,
and so he said, if he had a gun on him,
maybe I would have he would.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
Have lasted me or some shit.

Speaker 3 (01:26:43):
Yeah, oh, Quincy, We'll never know what's real with you.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
But it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (01:26:49):
So August twenty seventh, he directs one of his longtime
friends who's helping him with his business, to write a
letter firing Kenner, the lawyer who came in and was
like given power of attorney with the death row contract.
Then they go to New York for the VMAs and

(01:27:10):
around this time Snoop like goes on a radio show
and is like, yeah, you know, like I would still
work with like big Er like Puff like because they
make good music, and Chupac like won't talk to Snoop
after that and should won't let Snoop bring his security
on the flight home from New York. So Snoop like

(01:27:31):
when he's on the plane, like puts a blanket up
to his neck, but then is holding like his knife
and fork under his thing, like in case they attack him,
and like pretending to sleep, and he's like, they're going
to fucking kill me.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
Holy shit, I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So that's why Snoop is not in Vegas.
When they go to Vegas on September seventh, they're there
for the Mike Tyson Bruce Selden fight. After the fight,
Sugars throwing a party at his Las Vegas club six six'
to two mob on a phone, keypad And tupac wanted

(01:28:08):
to go To, atlanta but should convince him to go To.
Vegas Kadata jones is there. Now tupac's fiance is also In,
vegas so it takes at a hotel or, something right
like waiting for, yeah, yeah. Right Takes tyson two minutes
to knock Out. Selden the fight's, over by eight. Forty
tupac Hugs. Tyson they're very close.

Speaker 4 (01:28:31):
Friends he wrote a song and he wrote an entry.

Speaker 1 (01:28:34):
Song. Yeah in the, documentary some Of tupac's friends kind
of Blame Bruce selden for what happens, next because they're, like,
well you, see like we went there for a fight
and then like we barely got a, fight so we were,
like look, really, now after the fight is, over Fucking Bruce.
Selden so, Night tupac and their entourage leave the fight

(01:28:58):
and they See Orlando Baby Lane, anderson who is a
member of The Southside Compton Crips shook's affiliated with The
bloods The. Piru So anderson's, Uncle Dwayne keefe D davis
is also. There about a month, before member of The
crips had Robbed Trayvon lane from death row of his,

(01:29:22):
chain and So laye Tells tupac That anderson was the
person who robbed. Him they run After, anderson beat him,
up stomp. Him security guards come break it. Up tupac
goes back to his hotel, room tells people, like, WELL
i just beat the ship out of the. Sky hangs
out there for a little. Bit check out my new
video For California.

Speaker 3 (01:29:42):
Love it feels like also like, also how about This california?

Speaker 2 (01:29:50):
Love do we feel like? That?

Speaker 1 (01:29:51):
Okay but the guy that they had beat Up anderson
was like a murderer with like many bodies on his,
Name like they kind of picked the wrong. ONE a
little bit before, Nine, Shug tupac and their crew leave
THE Mgm grand there's two hours WHERE i think he's
like back in his room getting, ready and then this

(01:30:12):
is when Kepd davis goes and gets a. Gun they're
in a lineup of cars set to depart for the
club night gets in the driver's seat of his BLACK.
Bmw tupac sits next to him in the passenger seat
with the window. Down normally they would have had armed
bodyguards riding with, them so it's unusual that they're. Alone

(01:30:34):
the outlaws are in the car behind, them AND i don't,
know it's like a little. Weird sugar was LIKE i feel.
Like sugar was, like you need to ride with, me
and is kind OF i don't know if he wanted
to talk to him about firing.

Speaker 2 (01:30:52):
The lawyer or.

Speaker 1 (01:30:53):
What at around, eleven the police pull Over sugar And
tupac because their music is too, loud and they don't
have license, plates but they just like kind of let
them go without giving a. Ticket and then eleven, fifteen
they're stopped at a red light talking to girls in
a car next to, them and then the women pull.
AWAY a White cadillac pulls up next to them and

(01:31:14):
starts firing on them thirteen shots from a forty caliber
a glock. Pistol tupac tried to crawl into the back
seat And shug pulls them. Down four bullets Hit. Tupac
shug's forehead gets grazed by a bullet. Fragment there's a
story like he's awake for a while after he got.
Shot shug told him to hang on and he, said

(01:31:36):
you're the one who got shot in the. Head that's
according To. Shug that could just be a story Of
shug's making up to be like me And Tupac butch
And sun dance And tupac's like kind of marveling at
how tough he. Is but the police and paramedics are
on the scene by around eleven. Twenty he's rushed to
The University Medical center goes into emergency. SURGERY i think

(01:31:57):
his ring finger had been shot off and they have
to remove his right, lung and he stays in critical
condition for several days and then dies On september, thirteenth
right of the, thirteenth at age twenty. Five and, YEAH i,
mean even, so there's This New yorker article, about like
from a couple of years, after where they're, like The

(01:32:20):
Las vegas police would appear to have been almost lackadaisical
in their approach To tupac's. Murder they made only perfunctory
attempt to Question tupac's cousins who are riding in the
car behind, nights for. Example but then it's also you,
Know sugar is not. Cooperating, yeah someone asks, him if
you knew who Killed, tupac would you tell the, Police
and he said absolutely. NOT i don't get paid to solve.

(01:32:43):
Homicides But Orlando anderson was suspected by authorities of being.
Involved he denied involvement and died in nineteen ninety. Eight
but according to his uncle later his uncle later wrote
a book and was, like, yeah, no SO i bought the,
gun handed it to, him he.

Speaker 4 (01:32:59):
Shot so they're really like telling everybody for years.

Speaker 1 (01:33:03):
After, yeah it was kind of like an open secret
at this. Time puffy had like had meetings with crips
where he was, like, MAN i would pay a million
dollars for someone to Murder sugar In, tupac like that
was kind of a known. Thing so he never he
never paid out on. It but it is interesting, that like.

Speaker 4 (01:33:27):
So many fucked up THINGS i learned From Murder Rap
yeah DOCUMENTARY i keep talking, about which is yeah that
uh it was like one of the guys like the
not only did they not did he not pay? Them
it was LIKE kivd was told that like the other
guy had gotten the money and not him or, something
but it was like that was unprovable. Too so it's

(01:33:48):
just all such a like a senseless, TRAGEDY i.

Speaker 1 (01:33:52):
Know and, then, Uh march nineteen ninety, Seven bigie is
murdered In Los, angeles And i'm pretty sure like that
same guy who solved The tupac crime or like kind
of figured out what happened, there believes that that one,
was you, Know shoug was in prison and like kind
of had his, girlfriend you, know contact this guy who

(01:34:17):
was like a known blood like, uh you know assassin
who liked did the, killing right is essentially what it.

Speaker 4 (01:34:26):
Is, Yeah, yeah and uh and maybe some cops are,
involved but will never, know never.

Speaker 3 (01:34:32):
Know but, yeah LIKE i remember that in The didty, documentary,
right Like biggy didn't want to, go didn't want to
be there In.

Speaker 4 (01:34:37):
La, well that's like one of the fucked up things
Did he was, like you got to go TO La
and he was, LIKE i don't THINK i should go
TO la seems like a bad, Ice.

Speaker 2 (01:34:44):
LIKE i want to go To london in it and
he's like, No, yeah it's.

Speaker 4 (01:34:51):
Crazy both of the murders were done kind of like
in front of. Everybody that's what's so crazy is they
were both like you, know The Las Vegas strip And
Miracle mile largest like such public, places, Right, yeah for
all that to, happen so there was just a lot
of like unfortunate coincidence type stuff of like, yeah if
they hadn't the car hadn't pulled, up if those girls

(01:35:12):
hadn't pulled up in the car because they said they
figured out where two pockinshit, were because those girls were
like it's tupa, yeah, yeah yeah it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:23):
Sucks, yeah that was wild. TOO i remember when he.
DIED i JUST i remember it so.

Speaker 3 (01:35:30):
VIVIDLY i had this like weird little TINY tv in
my room and like the news came up AND i
was so that was like one of the first, times
actually the first When Miles davis. Died that was the
first CELEBRITY i felt bad about BECAUSE i was, LIKE
i was named after this. Person were named After Miles. David, yeah,
Yeah BUT i didn't know much About Miles davis's career

(01:35:51):
UNTIL i got much, older AND i was, like, oh
this like the furthest it got from. ME i was,
LIKE i started playing trumpet BECAUSE i was, like, WELL
i was named After Miles.

Speaker 2 (01:35:58):
DAVIS i play the.

Speaker 3 (01:35:59):
Trumpet but With, TUPAC i just remember so much like,
that like you were, Saying, molly before we were. Recording
it was A, Friday my birthday was that, weekend AND
i was just, LIKE i was, like, man nothing Matters tupac's.

Speaker 4 (01:36:15):
Dad, yeah first first dance with the world might be
not that creat actually.

Speaker 3 (01:36:23):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah it's just a AND i think
there's just you, know so much of his music is
so powerful, too because like you, know of all the
people you have more like you have the Real West
coast gangster rap that wasn't really talking about like your
own vulnerabilities or your own trump you're, like you're describing
really dark. Shit but With tupac's you, know, lyrics the
pros of it really opened the door to really let

(01:36:44):
a lot more emotion out and wrap AND, i you,
know credit so much of like what we. See, like you,
KNOW i don't, KNOW i don't know WHAT dmx if
his career exists in the same way Without, tupac Because
tupac had that sort of same and like has that
intensity to talk about.

Speaker 2 (01:36:58):
It's, like, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:37:00):
Doing like intersectional politics and his which is you.

Speaker 2 (01:37:04):
Know yeah full of.

Speaker 4 (01:37:06):
Contradictions, Yeah LIKE i was obviously like very into him
as A california, person but also BECAUSE i was, like,
wow he's like women are, oppressed, RIGHT i know you are,
oppressed and it's, tied.

Speaker 2 (01:37:21):
Right, Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:37:23):
Okay did you know That jada was going to direct
The California love. Video it's another interesting Tipt. Yeah, yeah,
yeah she She i'm pretty sure she Gave she's really
all over the. Right she had the concept for the, video,
yeah and then she was going to direct, it but
for whatever, reason just didn't end up directing.

Speaker 1 (01:37:42):
It that's such a weird direction for that. Video it's
a great, video but it's like a song that you
would expect to be, like you, know celebrating.

Speaker 2 (01:37:51):
Things a, second.

Speaker 4 (01:37:53):
There's the part two video where it's like more of
a traditional full party in a mansion. Video, yeah, yeah
but yeah it makes. Sense it's kind of. Burning it's The,
THUNDERDOME i will, say like to be In Los angeles
when that came.

Speaker 2 (01:38:10):
Out like like nothing like.

Speaker 4 (01:38:13):
It, Yeah like, Honestly i'm, like, wow we grew up
in an amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:38:16):
Time, actually maybe like the closest thing was like When
Not Like us came?

Speaker 2 (01:38:20):
Out yeah that.

Speaker 4 (01:38:21):
Too, no it is LIKE i was like wow When
Not Like us came, out it was like everywhere you
went In california you had to listen to people were
playing it every.

Speaker 2 (01:38:29):
Car aren't you? Listening this is this is our? Song?
Yeah that one man In.

Speaker 4 (01:38:34):
California it's like if a song is, good it has
to sound good coming out of.

Speaker 2 (01:38:38):
A, car right. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:38:39):
Yeah and then to live In dianela because when When
macavelly came, out that was another one you had to
blast out of your.

Speaker 2 (01:38:45):
Car was to live In dianel with.

Speaker 4 (01:38:47):
Me it's just funny. Too it's like all these songs
that are so kind of serious in a, way but
they're all just like fun to listen. To, yea all
of those songs have great production and just great you,
know all little bouncy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:39:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:39:04):
Yeah LIKE i, said like the historic you, know tradition
that he was born into of like you, know systemic
white supremacy and like violent oppression of The Black Panther,
party and just the fact, that, yeah it is such
a tragedy that even without like THE fbi actively being
the ones who pulled the, TRIGGER i think they must

(01:39:25):
have been very relieved when he went. Away and that fucking,
sucks you, know, well because he could have been so.

Speaker 3 (01:39:33):
POWERFUL i REMEMBER i had a meeting with his brother,
briefly his half, Brother, yeah and he talked about really
what the most interesting thing to him was that the
beginnings of what thug life was going to, Be, yeah
and really trying to like mainstream this outrage over inequality

(01:39:57):
and systemic racism BECAUSE i was, like was always on
like the vision board For tupac of like what he
could be doing, Too AND i, know and it is
it is.

Speaker 4 (01:40:06):
Like after he, died you did have the sort of
the big suits rap, era right exactly like conscious rap
we're mad about because they were like.

Speaker 3 (01:40:16):
Yeah the bling bling era came, Through, yeah, exactly and
the bling bling era definitely changed the course of.

Speaker 2 (01:40:21):
It BUT i Think i'm ignoring the.

Speaker 1 (01:40:23):
PROBLEMS i acknowledge that there are problems that come from.

Speaker 2 (01:40:27):
Me having so much fucking, money.

Speaker 3 (01:40:30):
BECAUSE i, mean you look at it, too like That's
diddy resting control of the hip hop narrative too at that.

Speaker 4 (01:40:35):
Time, yeah being, like, hey just make a lot of,
money don't worry about systematic, oppression, right just bootstrap your
way out of, it bling Blank nolan in The. Sky,
YEAH i think Cash money is it's in no. Limit
are their own their own episode will have to do, sometime, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:40:56):
Yeah but such a different style though, too you know
WHAT i. Mean That's.

Speaker 4 (01:41:02):
New.

Speaker 3 (01:41:02):
York, yeah, yeah like that's still, projects still have a
little bit of grime to. It whereas like The Puff
daddy were In Times, square we're wearing batting gloves and weird,
yeah and.

Speaker 4 (01:41:13):
We're like we purchased a really expensive. Sample Whereas Cash
money it sounds like you're driving the.

Speaker 2 (01:41:20):
Worst warriors click you know yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:41:23):
Yeah Cash money song call sound like you're like driving
a clown car over a street full of thumb. Tacks
kind of.

Speaker 3 (01:41:32):
More, yeah, exactly like it was such a less. POLICY i, mean,
yeah no Limit soldier.

Speaker 5 (01:41:36):
Episode SOON i, Love, YEAH i, think, yeah good, god it's,
UH i really do think like there was just so
much unfinished business and like the amount of question marks
over what that trajectory looks.

Speaker 4 (01:41:49):
Like that's what's. Crazy WHEN i Watched Murder, wrap it
is LIKE i was, like this is like just So
shakespearean in. It, yeah like everybody is dead at the
end and and it's. Horrible it's just.

Speaker 2 (01:42:02):
It's just it's a.

Speaker 1 (01:42:04):
Bummer it is an incredible story, There like there's been
lots of articles written about. IT i will say the
lack of like, definitive rigorous biographies Of, tupac like having
like done this research and being, like, oh this is
the best story Like i've ever, Heard like the lack
of like movies like. That there are plenty of documentaries

(01:42:26):
and stuff like, that but it's, like, WELL i does.

Speaker 4 (01:42:29):
Make you think, too like if he had lived and
he had continued to become more political and more famous
and more, influential Like i'm sure they would have picked
co intel pro on.

Speaker 1 (01:42:40):
Him oh, YEAH i get you, know they knew what
Co Intel pro was WHEREAS i feel like a lot
of people who you know WHAT i mean he was
talking about co intel pro in middle.

Speaker 2 (01:42:50):
School you.

Speaker 1 (01:42:51):
Know, yeah not that that makes it any easier to deal,
with but.

Speaker 4 (01:42:56):
It was, like you, know to bring a bunch of
get introduced all these kids such As miles AND i
to like The Black panther, ideologies, yeah through through music
after The american government had tried to completely stamping out you,
KNOW i think about that a lot because it was,
like you, know you Had tupac reviving all These Black panther,

(01:43:17):
concepts and then we also had Like rage against The
machine sort of you, know mainstreaming all these kind of
Like chicano rights. Things it was very just, like, well
the sixties are not. Over, yeah didn't fix, it and
so it's going to keep coming.

Speaker 3 (01:43:31):
BACK i remember When Geronimo pratt got out of, jail
my dad took a portrait for him for a, magazine
and he went up To oakland.

Speaker 2 (01:43:38):
To take the, picture AND i was, like what's what is?
This and then THEN i was, like He's tupac's.

Speaker 3 (01:43:44):
Godfather, Yeah and THEN i was like THEN i became
interested In Geronimo. Pratt, Yeah and it's just interesting how
you kind of sometimes need a person to co sign
a thing and you're, Like, okay Now i'm really into,
it WHICH i wouldn't have been. Before and, yeah IT'S
i think a very underrated aspect of his career THAT

(01:44:05):
i think most people don't realize too that as it
resonates into now and the way people talk about civil rights.

Speaker 2 (01:44:10):
Now, yeah and it was.

Speaker 4 (01:44:12):
Cool to me that his mother was like the civil rights, activists.

Speaker 1 (01:44:15):
Yeah like the center of, it you, know like the
probably the most successful of anybody of like pushing back
against Cointelpro. Yeah all, right, well thank. YOU i know
that was a long, one but there's a lot to
say About Tupac. Shacker Rapper Tupac. SHACKER i still like

(01:44:35):
have that burned in my, brain just like all those
early news. Reports, molly where can people find? You follow
you all that good?

Speaker 4 (01:44:41):
Stuff you can find me On instagram At Molly Underscore
lambert and you should check Out Jena, world where there
is one Episode tupac shows up in in The Heather
hunter episode episode. Ten Because Heather, hunter a famous lack vivid,
girl first black vivid, girl was in the how Do

(01:45:02):
You Want? It, video which was directed by a porn
director Named ron High.

Speaker 2 (01:45:08):
Tower yeah makes.

Speaker 4 (01:45:10):
Sense, yeah a lot of a lot of overlap between those.
Worlds so check Out it's it is, like there's all
these funny outtakes from the video Of Heather hunter sitting
On tupac's lap and both of them trying to not
laugh really, well you, know you're trying to look, sexy
but you're kind of, yeah shooting a music, video, Right so,

(01:45:32):
yeah check Out Jena world and more to come from
The Molly Lambert, Universe Miley time, Soon.

Speaker 2 (01:45:39):
Yeah Mu Molly Cinematic. Universe, yeah That's Miles sorry Meet,
yeah where can people? Find? You find?

Speaker 1 (01:45:47):
Me?

Speaker 3 (01:45:47):
Everywhere miles Of gray and check Out ain't A Foot
it's the new Show i'm doing talking about. Soccer but
you already know because if you listen to this, ship
you already heard me say this three thousand, times so
please join.

Speaker 2 (01:45:57):
Me there you. Go all, right that's going to do
it for this part of the.

Speaker 1 (01:46:01):
EPISODE i will be back in a moment to do
the notebook, dump WHERE i talk about stuff THAT i
realize an hour after we record this THAT i forgot to,
say and THEN i say it.

Speaker 2 (01:46:13):
To you guys a little bit. Later all, Right thanks, guy.

Speaker 1 (01:46:28):
All. Right that was Our tupac, conversation thanks To, miles
thanks To Molly lambert, obviously and our Researcher Meredith. Danko
this is The No, No No no note Book Don't Don't,
don't WHERE i go through and talk about the Stuff
i'd Wish i'd spend more time. ON i Wish i'd
spend more time on just what it felt like to

(01:46:49):
be alive When tupac was, alive being a fan Of,
tupac while he was making, music while he was starring in.
Movies there's this. THING i talk about it every once
in a while on A tdz and definitely on our
OLD nba. Show there's this thing that happens every once
in a while where in sports it will feel like

(01:47:11):
a movie is being, written like a player reaches such
a level of greatness that it's not just that they're,
dominating it's that they're scripting the outcome of a series
or a game in the way that like the best
possible writer would script reality like. It it's not just,

(01:47:33):
winning it's like winning in the most dramatic, Way LIKE
i remember it happening With jordan when he like his
last title with The. Bulls it wasn't enough to you,
know beat The jazz. Again he had this amazing what's
called The flu game where he was like clearly very
sick and came out and just like still played one

(01:47:53):
of the best games of his career and then came
out the next game and hit the game winning shot
and like stole the, ball just like the most dramatic
SHIT i would, Say, lebron you, know coming back from
three to one and beating the seventy Win. Warriors it
just like it feels like they have entered a new

(01:48:13):
level of control where everything's being done to create the best,
movie the best, story to tell the best. Story AND
i bring that up here just because it feels like
that's What tupac's entire life was, like just at every,
turn doing the most, interesting the most, dramatic the most,

(01:48:35):
scary the most funny, thing just doing research for. This
but even at the, time it was just like twists
and turns and you, know dramatic shit happening every other.
Week in a way that like it feels like reality
is cooperating with him to write the Great american novel

(01:48:57):
into his. Life like from the time he's in his
mother's belly and she's defending herself Against Cohen telpro and
successfully doing. It like, like you could not write that,
shit it would be too far Fet so, ANYWAYS i
just wanted, to you, know as a, fan like this
is WHAT i fell in love with about his career

(01:49:19):
as a as a, teenager you, know as A i
GUESS i was twelve or thirteen when he. Passed was
very sad to learn speaking of people passing during the
research of this, episode the shock g the one who
put the satin on your, panties the man who gave Us,
humpty and the person who really like in doing research for,
this seems like you really Loved, tupac Gave tupac a

(01:49:40):
lot of like artistic support that he shokg recently died
of a drug overdose a few years back In, Florida
so rip to one of the. Greats we do end
up talking a lot about drugs on These icon, episodes
BUT i don't mean to glorify them in any. WAY
i find, it you, Know I'M I i'm ten years.

(01:50:01):
SOBER i do find it interesting because it's a part
of these people's stories that usually gets written out of
the official. ACCOUNT a lot of the, time especially in
The United, states but, yes they can have, horrible horrible.
Consequences one detail that had always gotten left out of his,
story his mom goes from being this, massive you, know

(01:50:25):
celebrity for defending herself and getting you, know the panthers,
off to their family being out on the. Street tupac
basically described that as like polite society moving on in the, eighties,
essentially like he was just like the political tides, turned
and you, know we're In Reagan's america and nobody wants

(01:50:47):
to have a black panther speaking at their event or you,
know sleeping on their couch. Anymore AND i do think
that that's important context for why he is and impressed by,
celebrity or at least he wasn't going to you, know
change who he was or what he, said because you,

(01:51:08):
know he had this fame and he was afraid of losing.
It like that didn't impress him. Much to Quote Shania,
twain AND i feel like that gave him the ability
to have political takes that now seem decades ahead of their.
Time during the research for, THIS i just again kept
imagining a version of history where he's still alive for
the past ken fifteen. YEARS i really think he would

(01:51:31):
have become important. Politically he was already making the points
everyone was making in twenty, twenty but he was making
them in the early. Nineties you. Know he said his
mom raised him to believe he was the Black prince
of The, revolution and that's how he lived his. Life
not a detail but a joke THAT i had WHEN

(01:51:54):
i was talking About shug Saving tupac from the riptide
In cabo and everyone was having a hard time imagining.
That imagining sugar, Swimming brian The editor wrote in the
chat that it was probably like if you've ever seen
a hippo kind of run swim through a river where
they're just like kind of bouncing off the. BOTTOM i

(01:52:17):
did not see that in the chat until we had stopped,
recording but that was very. Funny AND i do feel
Like Suge knight is probably like incredibly dense and like
that's how he makes his way through the. Water and
THEN i do just want to put it to the.
LISTENER i want to hear from you. Guys so we
talked about how the role OF O doug And menace

(01:52:39):
to society was not written for, him BUT i think
that was, like what the conflict was? Like tupac was, like,
well don't put me in here as this less interesting.
Character AND i do really think like as good As
Lauren's tate is In menace To, society Like tupac would
have been. Transcendent but that does that did get me

(01:53:01):
thinking because we also kept saying that he probably wins
An oscar if he doesn't, die what movie would it
have been? FOR i put that to you the, listener you, know,
like Could Training day in two thousand and one have
made sense either? Role you, know BECAUSE i Think Ethan
hawk was nominated for his role as. WELL i think

(01:53:26):
he would have been awesome in either, role which says
something about his. Range BUT i, yeah pitch me your
Best tupac role we missed out on because he. DIED i,
mean one that ties into his story really well Is
Fred hampton And judas and The Black messiah or maybe
The judas. Character one that like popped into my head

(01:53:47):
Was leo in One battle after another as like sort
of a washed up. REVOLUTIONARY i feel like they're about
the same. Age SO i don't. KNOW i want to
hear your. PITCHES i feel LIKE i haven't landed on
the right one just. Yet but let me, know what's
the movie That tupac would have won his oscar For Hetty.
Survive that's gonna do it for The tupac. Episode we're

(01:54:09):
back next week with another, icon another one who went
on an incredible tear of just making drug fueled classics
despite being probably maybe the nerdiest person that we've covered
yet on this, show and that's saying something because we
have Covered. Erkele we're back next week With Stephen, king

(01:54:32):
and we will talk to you all.

Speaker 2 (01:54:33):
Then, bye

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Icon #11 - Tupac Shakur: When 25 Years = 3 Lifetimes

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Icon #11 - Tupac Shakur: When 25 Years = 3 Lifetimes