Top 10 of 2025: #2 Extra! Extra! Ouija’ll About It!10.28.25

We are counting down the top 10 episodes of 2024, as voted by our listeners. At #2, we have:

Extra! Extra! Ouija’ll About It!10.28.25

In episode 1954, Jack and Miles are joined by host of Otherworld, Jack Wagner, to discuss… Ouija Episodes, The Power Of The Unconscious Mind and more!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, zeich Gang, and welcome to the end of the year.
During these two weeks surrounding Christmas and the New Year,
we take some time off. During the mornings, we'll run
some new holiday and end of the year content that
you can listen to while we're.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Taking a break.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
In addition to all that stuff, in the afternoons, where
we would usually drop the Trends episode, we are rerunning
the ten most popular episodes of this year according to you.
You voted with your dang years and we listened with ours. Actually,
we looked at the data we're.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Spying on you.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Honestly, I'm mostly in this podcasting thing for the rich
marketing data it provides to me about each and.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Every one of you.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
At the end of the year, when I look back
to see what made the top ten, and this was
actually my favorite year to look back at, our top
ten is full of episodes I feel like made it
because of a bunch of different reasons. There are some
episodes that dropped after huge news events. There are some

(01:04):
first episodes that dropped right after some hilarious news events,
some great new guests, some classic fan favorite guests, and
some new formats we tried out that We're very excited
to see that you guys enjoyed. Before we get into it,
I just want to thank you guys for once again
being such a cool community that's bloomed up around this
podcast we've been doing all these years. You guys repeatedly

(01:27):
make us proud. You're there for us when we go
through some really difficult shit. You show up at shows
of our guests, and we always get great reports from
our guests about our listeners. You are the rare podcast
audience that makes us extremely proud to have you as
listeners so far, so don't fuck this up, you guys,

(01:49):
and coming in all the way at number two, it
is an episode called Extra Extra. Weeja all about it.
It makes more sense reading it and saying it out loud.
But this one features the great Jack Wagner post of
the Other World podcast. It was definitely a departure. It
was like a Halloween themed special episode, and you guys

(02:12):
seem to really enjoy it. Definitely outside of our comfort zone,
but we we really enjoyed making it, and we're glad
you enjoyed it too. Here it is the number two episode.
Jack in your paranormal studies, have you encountered any Matilda's
any people with Matilda powers.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Ooh, that is a great question. I mean there's been
a Matilda adjacent people. But honestly, if I heard about Matilda,
if somebody came to me claiming to be Matilda, I
think I'll be skeptical of them right off the bat.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, right, right right?

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Read so good that you can move things with your mind?
Come on, exactly, chocolate cake thrown at your teacher or
whatever was that?

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Didn't you do that? Yeah? I mean there was a
I know this we made it was forced to eat
a cake.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
She's like starts out with the standard gateway crime of
spilling water on her teacher, but then it moves on
to chocolate cake and then writing spooky message on the
board with her brain.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
That's a good one.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
I mean that cake scene was supposed to be torturous,
but I feel like I could handle it.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
I know, one of the best looking cakes in cinema history.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Did they make it look so good? It is delicious looking.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (03:28):
I feel like just food and movies always looks good,
Like the when in Jurassic Park when they get back
into the.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Visitors a jello jello all of it, the ice ice cream,
because it's melty ice cream too.

Speaker 4 (03:40):
Just oh, it's just the way they're fucking wah yeah,
And I think what those kids are gone for, like
fucking ten hours at that point, right, But anyway, that's mine.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
I was about to eat, doctor Grant. I was so
hungry out there, Bro, you were gone for three hours.
Tell you one bit of food that didn't look like
it tastes good. In Jurassic Park, Samuel L. Jackson, that
guy's smoking so much. I bet I bet the dinosaur spit.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Him right out.

Speaker 4 (04:11):
I think you're gonna say that Pilo shit. Nobody was
checking for that.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season four to twelve, Episode.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Two of Dirty's Eight Guys.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
This is a production of iHeart Radio's the podcast where
you take a deep dive into america Shared consciousness, and
this week that shared consciousness got cobwebs in it.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
The spookiest thing that anything can have.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Talking about virgins, talking about virgins, Yo, we light a
candle if you're a virgin in Salem. Talking about yesterday's
episode in Hocus Pocus, how everybody keeps roasting that fourteen
year old boy for being a virgin, including his six
year old sister.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
I have not seen that movie in a while.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Apparently, Oh yeah, I hadn't either. I saw when I
was a kid, and I was just like getting slamed
as a fourteen year olds for being a virgin by
children like and then by a ghost of a Puritan. Yeah,
I think it's weird that this guy hasn't fucked yet.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
Famously, the Puritans would not think that, hence the name.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
That's right, although there is a I talked about this episode,
but there.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Is a school of thought that thinks that the Puritans
had so many rules about not having sex because they
were fucking so much eyewitness test like the.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
Obvious he's doing fucking public anymore.

Speaker 4 (05:40):
Yes, that's funny. That Puritan's name Factory Binks. I was like,
what a fucking dumb name, dude.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Oh come on, man, they ate with that.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Factory Binks is like, fucking that's like George Lucas level
bullshit name.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
I forgot.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
I forgot to bring this up with the actor who
plays the kid Max. I think the main kid he's
now just like in a he's just a a weed grow.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Did Yeah, we'd get hell Yeah, Yeah, I mean it's
better than the fate of a lot of nineties actors
where they yeah, yeah, shot up with gas station or something.
That's like, I feel like half of the people I
saw in movies that I liked as a kid, and.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Ourwer Rangers all starters, like half.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
The Power Rangers.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
You know, you don't open that Wikipedia up and see
it written in the past tense, you know what I mean. No, yeah,
by the way, it says he was an actor, and
I'm like, uh oh, but fully on weed dude, company
off the ground exactly, no disrespect.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
He's probably making so much more money in the week.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
I don't know. Basically I'm looking.

Speaker 4 (06:42):
I was, I was, I was trolling his I g
did not seem that popping.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah, okay, well, at least I'm hoping he's happy.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
The update was that he still keeps in touch with
some of the people who were in his focused with him.
That's like one of the and here's what we know
of him now because.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
They kill it at the cons, they go signing, yeah yeah,
they want they want to meet him.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
Here's something about hocus Pocus I could share. By all means,
I remember being very attracted to Sarah Jessica Parker's character
in it when I was a kid.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
What's wrong with you? Why? What? What was going on?

Speaker 3 (07:14):
But I've never had that experience with any other Sarah
Jessica Parker role. Yeah, And I don't even know if
I realized it was her, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (07:22):
He was the thicker eyebrows. You know what I mean,
maybe he didn't have as thick an eyebrow.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, that was gonna be my guess, to the thicker eyebrows.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
It's like specifically the witch version of her and no
other role.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
I mean I followed her her body of work for
many years. It's one of her better performances. Like she
she gives a great performance. She fully embodies that kind
of dizzy, silly, off balanced character. Yes, yeah, yeah we have.
Do people give their flowers to Kathy a Gemie? Enough?
Not nearly.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
So she's doing like a weird mouth thing in that
one where she like only has control of one side
of her mouth. Never explained, just a bit of business
for herself to be doing.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
Gmie is an insane pol I don't know if you
guys have IMDb in front of you or if you
just have encyclopedic No.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Again, when she was his sister aster act yea, yeah,
that's killed it and sister never forget Kathya Gamians. But yeah,
there's something.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
About Sarah Jessica Parker's makeup, even though like it's pretty,
it's not like she's wearing prosthetics or anything. But I
watched it with my family yesterday and my wife, who's
like very IMDb brained and like has like facial recognition
technology and her brain was surprised that it was Sara
Jessica Parker. Yeah, never happens. Can't catch her sleeping on.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
It's the darker eye makeup and eyebrows, I'm telling you.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Anyways, it is Tuesday, October twenty eighth, twenty twenty five. Yeah,
three days from the spookiest day of the year.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Oh hell yeah dude. But of course what are we celebrating.

Speaker 4 (08:51):
Oh, it's also National First Responder's Day, National Internal Medicine Day, Wow,
very very health, real safety.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
And also National Chocolate Day that feels more in line
with the week of Halloween. It's National Chocolate Day. That
feels there's so many there's like forty National Chocolate Day.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
I was gonna say, I feel like there's a lot
too many. Yeah, tie those things together. A block from
where I'm recording is a place that, uh, I think
is very strange. It's a dispensary. It has dispensary, but
it's a chocolate dispensary. They do not sell weed.

Speaker 4 (09:20):
Oh really, Oh yeah, dispensary. I know what you're talking about.
It it's and it's a place. I think we brought
it up on the show too, where before you've been
on Jack. But like the people in there, like I've
heard the owner really hates that people think there's weed
in there. Even though it's a really type of guy
to be to start.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
A business the Los Angeles and your business has dispensary
on it, It's like.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
Why would you are the edibles? I mean, yes, they're
all edible.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
It's like the guy starts a root beer store and
the scientist a big neon sign says beer cold, thinking
there's Pacifico's here the yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
But indeed it's just part of the Like chocolate is
a drug kind of loved in the late nineties where
it's like I'm a chocoholic, I can't stop.

Speaker 4 (10:12):
I think it's meant to just be like very just
like the most buy the book Definition of a dispensary.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
You know what I mean is how they look at
their place. Anyway. They got it from me. The stores
got it from me. Anyways.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
My name is Jack O'Brien aka Jackhammer Killer O Dan,
of course, courtesy of snarf that on the Treehouse of
Horror's nickname this is I discovered a reference to a
two thousand and four film called The Jackhammer Massacre.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
I think I have to assume that's who.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
The Jackhammer Killer is about, a guy who you guessed
it uses a jackhammer to kill people. It does sound
like he's the protagonist. Like it's a you follow his descent,
he's like a businessman and his friend dies and that
like sends him over the edge. So it's like a
Michael Douglas falling down American psycho situation. He is, and
this is a spoiler alert for anybody who's planning on

(11:10):
checking it out. He is ultimately undone by the fact
that the jackhammer needs to be plugged in it comes
up plugged. God, is that even true? I mean, I
feel like they have power than that.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
I would have assumed its just something you like edit out,
but they were like, nah, this is gonna be the
crux of Oh.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
Okay, wait, no, he's probably using like a more handheld jackhammer, like,
uh okay, interesting he doesn't have like a cordless Makida option.
It's a yeah, I would miss my probably made before
the cordless era. I guess two thousand and four. You'd
think or like a gas powered one, you know what
I mean, where you could do like a scary like

(11:53):
rip the cord and it's like instead, it was like,
hold on, let me plug this in really like a
like a hot glue bill.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Hey, you got a fifty foot extension. That's what happened.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
The cord comes unflugged. That does if I were a
slasher that does sound like the sword of Ship. That
would get me caught up.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
Over the house and then find an outlet.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
That's really funny.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
Oh fuck, it's one of the ones attached to the
light switch, so I have to like turn the lights
on to get the quigged in.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
It's a too prong. You don't have gfcason here.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
Yeah, I'm thrilled to be joined as always, buy my
co host, mister Miles Grass.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
It's Miles Gray, Kay Trusking dementia trus got dementia trust
got dementia.

Speaker 3 (12:41):
Trums got dementia, or trans got dementia, or trums got dementia,
But is dementia trus dementia?

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Okay, shout out to me. This morning, we were talking
about intergalactic we were talking about Jack coming on. We're
talking about intergalactic ship.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, and then we were also talking about that we
would have also accepted another dementia, another dormain.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Because we got two presidents in a row. Baby, everyone's
got Baby. You gotta be on the hill.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
You gotta have rocket dem Congress by dementia.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
Yeah, Congress too. It's so many of them. We have
the geriatric Congress night right now. It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (13:19):
No, I mean I I think people who have who
can barely know if they're going to be alive for
the next three months, be dictating what the future looks
like ten years from now.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
Get them out of here, Get them all out of here.
I'm just going, I'm sorry, I'm agist. Get them out
for something at a certain ye, get them out of there.
Agism is just like I don't I'm worried for them.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
You got it time.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
There's a video of Mitch McConnell like I'm like, are
we going to make it through this video, let alone
the day like it's harrowing. Anyways, Miles, we're thrilled to
be joined in our third seat once again by the director,
journalists and hosts Behind and one of the great podcasts.
It is about as I think he put it the

(14:05):
first time. He was on the fact that the world
is queerer than many of us suppose, indeed queer than
many of us can suppose.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
It's called other world. He's called Jack Wagner.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
To be clear, I did not say that, but thank
you for having me on the show. It's a pleasure
as always to be here. I did not call my
show queer. If I did, it would be in a
positive way. Yes, yeah, yes, that fake quote, I thought, Man,
did you actually think time? Did you actually think I
said that I had that quote and maybe it was
something that I thought was I think it was being

(14:38):
used to describe the paranormal.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
Wait, that's me, I said, it's origin it's giving pre
nineteen hundred.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yes, for sure, for sure, for sure. But I'll take it.
I'll take it to a good quote.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
It's a good quote. Quote sums up some of my
favorite parts of you.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Although you should start doing that to every guest is
kind of like, yes, and see what they do with
it if it's a good quote, Like I mean, sometimes
you might want to take credit.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Why not? You know?

Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, Jack, thank you so much for coming back. You
had you any travels and travails since you were last on.
We wanted to have you on on the spookiest of weeks.
Thank you. Your podcast is so good. We're gonna end
up just being like, man, you remember that episode.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
I was crazy?

Speaker 3 (15:26):
Sometimes I might not remember it, which is the craziest part.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
True, is that real? Dude?

Speaker 1 (15:32):
So we're gonna We're gonna basically do that in the
body of the episode.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Hell yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
But first we do like to get to know our
guests a little bit better by asking you, what is
something from your search history that's revealing about who you are?

Speaker 3 (15:44):
Okay, this is I have an answer to this. It's
a it's a layered response though, And this actually it
sort of caused a lot of reflection for me. I
searched through my Google search history. Normally this should be horrifying, right, like,
this is not something you want even your significant other

(16:04):
to access. I was scrolling through mine, dead serious, completely dry.
It would dox me. So I'm not gonna let you look,
but I would let you look. It's that boring. I
had to scroll three weeks back to find something interesting, dude,
I'm telling.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
You, And how mundane it was. I was like, literally
bigger right foot, not even that dry.

Speaker 3 (16:25):
I was just like purely looking up like addresses and
I'm like, oh, right, dinner in Echo Park just that,
and then like kind of googling just facts to confirm,
like spellings of things, no spice whatsoever, just no flavor,
no fun, no wild cards. I was looking at this
and had to go three weeks back in the history

(16:47):
to find something, you know, off color, funny, weird. But
I'm like, dude, I think I need to get a
I need to go back to my roots and get
a little weirder because this is the.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Last three weeks. I yeah, held a mirror to you
that you didn't.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
Know nothing even embarrassing, damn thing even embarrassing. I'm like, oh,
I mean.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
My last ones do flies.

Speaker 4 (17:08):
Fuck, that's a great search. See I don't even have
any of that, dude. And I mean I don't know.
I mean, and part of it just sort of reveals
my own ignorance. But that's the fun of it, right,
just being transparent about how little I know about how
flies copulate?

Speaker 2 (17:21):
Do they? Is it?

Speaker 3 (17:21):
I feel like it must be an egg situation the larva, right.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
That's what you think.

Speaker 4 (17:25):
Until I caught him banging outside on a chair.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
I was and I was like, how are they hit it?

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, like straight from the like from the back.

Speaker 4 (17:34):
Yeah, another fly the female uses like an egg two
to like it's it's very interesting.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Anyway, So you got nothing very dry? No? No, okay,
so I scrolled where do you get?

Speaker 1 (17:47):
No?

Speaker 3 (17:47):
I did find one? Oh god, yeah, I I'm Stephen
looking at it right now. This is uh so embarrassing.
I'm like looking up sponsors, like, you know, you guys
do ads, Like I'm sure you have to go through
the approvals of like brands that could be advertising in
the show.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
I'm just googling that.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
But anyway, the little ultra evil. Yes, But the one
I found that I do think is funny is can
water go bad? M Yeah, this was not a question
for me, but I did want to know. This was
like something I was arguing with my wife about. She
thinks water could go bad. I'm like, yeah, the bottles,

(18:26):
you know, what I mean, that's that's what How long
a cup sitting out in the house? How long sitting
there until you can't drink it?

Speaker 4 (18:34):
I mean you probably just evaporate at that point. I'm
more thinking like a bottle of water, like oh, that
ship said drink by like ninety eight.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yeah, that's another good question.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
I mean, if it's plastic, I would be a little
concerned that tasting.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
Like plastic is usually like my if it tastes like plastic,
you usually that happens if it's like been in a
car like for fifteen cycles.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Of of like the moon fifteen moon cycles. Yeah, let
me ask you. That's like water.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
There's like a cup of water on the side of
your bed, yes, from the night before? Yeah, would you
drink the next night if it was there and available
and you needed it.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
I don't get in the plants tastes like room. Tastes
like room. Okay, it tastes like it absorbs like that.

Speaker 4 (19:21):
I don't care about that. It just tastes like room.
Tastes like the room, like an overnight cup.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
I don't know. Maybe I would get a little tiny
bubbles on the foot, Yeah, it just gets It's just
a little stale. I guess that's how I think. Yeah,
this is just something I wanted to know.

Speaker 4 (19:34):
You know, Wait, so is there an answer no that
it cannot like what scenario?

Speaker 3 (19:39):
Because I forgot? Can't water go bad? I mean no,
I think it's the answer is no, but like I
think it's oh wait, yes, water can combat. Technically, the
water itself does not expire. The main issue are contaminants
from the container or outside sources, degradation of the canar
itself over time, especially if exposed to heat or sunlight.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
So you know, we were not far off, not far off.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
The thing that I'm always imagining happening is I took
a sip my mouth. Germs have like somehow invaded and
started to colonize.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
The wall, and it's gonna just be like bad break
in there.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
It's just like that inside your body, right, yeah exactly,
So I should be.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Fine, but none. Nonetheless, I'm like, I'll take a This
is for the plants, now, this is for the kids.
I put it in my kids. A little cooler.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
With your mouth, exactly.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
How we pass our legacy along. What is something you
think is underrated?

Speaker 2 (20:36):
Jack? Waking up early is underrated? Waking up early.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
I like, I'm a big fan of waking up super early. However,
up before sunrise if possible, So Mark, some like Mark
Wahlberg ship.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Not on that.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
I mean, that's crazy. In fact, I'll say I will
say that being buff is overrated.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
Waking up early under that's crazy because most people that
are fucking jazz dude are waking up early.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
Man, it's you and a bunch of jacked people who
are awake and moving at the time that you're waking up.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
Yeah, I mean yeah, I think you know the Jim
crowd they have to do and there are there are
the late night Jim people. That's right, some serious jack
dudes will be in there at like weird hours, like
eleven thirty working out, you.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Know, PF.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
So you gotta get three hours of workout in every day,
you know, you got to pick your spots.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, but I would say, I'll yeah, I'll keep with
this line and say that being buff is overrated. I mean, look,
I think, uh, if you are buff, more power to you.
I think so much of it is genetics, you know.
In fact, like Matthew McConaughey, I think was like quoted
saying that he just like kind of randomly bangs out

(21:48):
push ups throughout the day and like doesn't really have
a routine. I think it was, but it's like, yeah,
there are guys who just kind of look like.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
That just genuinely looks great without a shirt on since
he was like ten years old.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah, and then like if you're resisting nature, it's like
really really hard to change it.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
But yeah, I mean I think it's overrated.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Like like to to really be that shredded, it's like
a full time job, a lot of a lot of dedication.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
Like it's crazy, and we have a Yeah, training is overrated.
I'll just say that America is obsessed training, now, you know.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
I mean like that's.

Speaker 4 (22:28):
Yeah, I mean ethos, social media likes like gym talk
kind of shit.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah, I mean there's like the whole hybrid thing between
like the CrossFit like military adjacent I think there's like
a there's like a certain type of person that like,
uh works out in a stolen valor type of way.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
I don't know in their mind.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Maybe I don't know where I'm going with this, but uh,
you know, I think there's guys, well, I think there's
a huge chunk of America that they're like training for
something that's gonna they think my happened, and it's just
never gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
You know.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
It's the same thing with like the gun guys training
the weapons, like they're doing like the tactical training. You know,
they're buying all the gear. They're like kind of waiting
for the ship to hit the fan. But yeah, now
they just have to join ice. Ship rarely hits the fan. Yeah,
well no, then now they have that, they.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
Have that outlet.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
But it doesn't seem like it's the buff guys or
the guys who are training with guns that are doing no.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
Yeah, I just think physical fitnessas Yeah. I think you
could let a lot of you could waste a lot
of time training. Yeah, you know, yeah, everybody is in
the movies. Everyone's buff. Now it's just like you know,
the like.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
Objectively does Iron Man? Does it make sense that Tony
Stark is like a jacked dude like he's supposed to be.
It doesn't matter a scientist because at his most potent
form is some jacked iron body, right, and like the
like he's over, he's compensating for the physical realities by
creating this like that old body that can encase him.

(24:01):
It would make more sense if he was a skinny
you know, yeah, you're right scientially, But instead they were like, dude,
you're gonna need to spend a year get starting to
look like Superman.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Drinking goat and milk.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
Real, if he was in the suit all the time,
he would have almost no muscle mass at the point. Yeah, yeah,
because like he wouldn't be using his muscles. Yeah, that
would be amazing.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
Victory superpriser Victor said he would have Elon Musk's body type.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
Amazing. Damn I god fit giant Torso Jarvis a just
mid section please there's I mean.

Speaker 4 (24:39):
It's funny though too, because I think we were talking
about this last week about how all the leading men
are just so fucking rich with everyone fucking body fat,
and I'm like one though, yeah, I was like, but remember,
like Kevin Costner was like the fucking height of it,
like in Americans, like, oh god, this guy.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
That looks like he doesn't work out ever and just
as the ideal. Yeah, like he's like naturally fit enough. Okay,
here's a good Google search Kevin Costner shirtless.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
See that would have been I'm looking at right, now
one with the chest hair, right, Oh, I mean hill
him in Bull Durham.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
That's like.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
That's kind of like where you want to be. That's
a good place to be as a guy. I mean
you could get a little more muscle, but you know
my ideal body type Kevin Costner and Bull Durham. Yeah,
it's like not a ton of muscle, but he's looking good,
you know.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, buff doesn't work all the time. Though it's not bad.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
There's a way that there's like a six pack if
you're not meant to have one spiritually, it's like not good.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
You ever seeing somebody that like works really hard to
get one. Then you see it and you're like, did
not expect you to have that? And I don't know
if I feel.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Comfortable with it? What the fuck? What do you do?

Speaker 3 (25:48):
You know what I'm saying. You were at the end
of the beach and it's like a really pasty dude.
It almost looks as a photoshopped set of abs on
It's creepy.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Yeah, that's jack. I'm just letting the photoshops as well.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
You taped the photo on your stomach, But I'm just
remembering the Kevin Costner swimming in a in Robin Hood,
he's like taking a bath in a waterfall. And that
is the reverse of the Iron Man, where it's like, wait,
this doesn't make sense that he would be this jack.
It's he's like supposed to be the fucking hottest ude ever.

(26:24):
He's like getting out of a shower, out of you know,
the equivalent, the Robin Hood equivalent of the shower, which
is a waterfall, and like made Marian is like visibly
being like, oh God.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
I'm looking at yeah, how are you gonna say that?
He looks like, you know, this looks like regular. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, he's like extra regular, extra me, Robin Hood bringing
back extra regular. Yeah, oh wow, was just ass out
in the movie. His asses out and he has tandlines.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
I know.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, I guess the sun is strong out there in
Sherwood for us. All Right, we're gonna we'ren you got there.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
I imagine this is normal SAT show, but yeah, yeah,
this is about so yeah, Kevin Costs in our shirtless.

Speaker 1 (27:14):
Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and
talk about WIJA. We'll be right back, and we're back.
We're back, and uh, you did a couple episodes on

(27:36):
WIJA awards, Yes, a year ago or so, and then
a more recent one where you cover the phenomenon of
Zozo and.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
Who I mean, it's funny, it's it is funny, the
aren't The episodes aren't funny, they're scary, but they are spooky.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
I was getting spooked. It's getting downright spooked to listen
to those things. It's kind of like, here, my, have
you ever been in a meeting where like someone zoom
bombs it, like usually a teenager.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
Fuck you, like just the worst thing they could think of.
But that that's really funny though, that's like such a
twenty twenty kind of It was a real zoom bombing.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
It was a it was a real pandemic thing. Yeah,
and that kind of feels like, what's happening. It's like
these two malevolent spirits that keep and so so. Here
the the thing that is creepy about it is that
you're taught you the format of your shows. You talk

(28:38):
to people who they then tell their story of this
thing that resists sort of explanation happening to them, and
so it's like almost an oral tradition. You get to
hear the story from them. It adds a real like
layer of like I don't know that's this is like

(28:58):
it's hard to deny when you like, yeah, so like
I was in high school, like this is the weird
shit that I was doing, and then like this thing
started happening. And in this case, the like people were
fucking around with Wigi boards and like they started having
these like really dark messages come through and it was

(29:20):
Zozo in the episodes from last year was like what
they kept it kept going zo Zo Zeo, and like
they they didn't realize it at the time, but like
you do the research and this is a there's a
trend across people who fuck around with wigi boards of
like this specific thing happened. Oh and Zaza is like
a common Wiji board. It's like a very common thing,

(29:43):
very common. There's like a movie called I Am Zozo
that I think is like not very well reviewed. I
think it's like a thirteen percent rotten Tomato situation, but yeah, classic,
but yeah, this is like a massive thing. And you know,
I had heard of it, like I I think I
had heard like the concept just from being on the
internet or something. But it's totally something that I would

(30:06):
completely laugh at and.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Not want to do on the show.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah, I think you were consciously making up names. Those
would not be the names you came.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
Sounds like a fake name that like a thirteen year
old girl she's like trying to write a horror movie
for the first time.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Like a like a five year old That lies a lot. Yeah, yeah, exactly,
but it is weird.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
And yeah, I started getting a lot of emails about it,
and then you know, obviously people I ended up interviewing
had like really intense stories that involve this, and apparently
it's really common for something to kind of like take
over on the board and identify itself by this name.

(30:50):
And yeah, I guess that was like where it turned
for me, is when I was starting to talk to
people who like weren't aware that this is a phenomena
that's known and even things that have like happened before
the anybody was talking about this at all on the internet.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Yeah, So my read like heading in was more like
I think Weiji Awards are super interesting because I do
think like they're you know, like like skeptics will be like, oh,
it's just like people you know, moving the thing on purpose,
and I tend to think it's like more they're moving

(31:26):
it and don't realize they're doing it. And so this
like part of them is being expressed that they don't
have access to or like control over, you know, like
it's like a sort of YOUNGI in like some part
of and in this case it would be like a
shared unconscious because they all have the same name and
like this that is associated with the same like dark energy. Yeah,

(31:50):
which I think, like that doesn't explain everything, but I
do think it's easy like this. This comes up a
lot on our show in reference to like the story
of Havana syndrome, where everyone was like, oh, they were
making it up, and it's like, I don't think they
were intentionally making it up. Like I think they experienced

(32:12):
those realities of like a bad thing like getting hit
with a sound beam or being like under attack by
some like invisible force that it turns out as like
kind of physically impossible to have happened.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
But like they I know, I'm sorry to force a detour,
but did they ever find a solution for that? Was
there any closure?

Speaker 1 (32:34):
It's not like officially, but you know, you as documents
have been released the CIA themselves and like the different
departments the Pentagon, like prior to the Trump takeover. All
seemed to be like, we don't think there was any
like physical basis for these attacks, and these are our
organizations that would seemingly love a physical basis for an

(32:58):
attack that they could you know, start getting funding around.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
Because I heard compelling explanations on both sides of it.
Like I first encountered it as something that was just
complete nonsense. It was like evil CIA people having like
maybe internalized guilt for the horrible things they do at work. Yeah,
but uh, you know, but that I've also heard some

(33:22):
stuff that was really compelling on the other side, like
there's I listened to it like a series where it
interviewed some people who had experienced it in a town.
Isn't really intense, But anyway, you could continue with your point.
I didn't mean, I just I think that that's true.
I think that they experienced harrowing things. I think I
think the power of the unconscious mind is like the
great underrated force of people's existence. And I think like

(33:46):
ritual and you know, all these things that we don't
really make room for officially, as like mattering in our world.
In a lot of cases, like are ways of accessing that?
And I think I just think that people are like
if it's their own conscious mind, then it's like skeptic
skeptic view not interesting. And I think that's actually like

(34:09):
really interesting, Like that's kind of what's going on. But
there are definitely parts of the story that would make
it like impossible for that. Like there's one part where
it predicts that they're at like a high school movie
screening on a football field, and it is like it

(34:30):
predicts that the projector's about to go down and it does.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yeah, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
There's a ton of stuff like that, And I mean
also the fact that in that story this occurred before
this whole Zozo thing was like a trend like a
decade before.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
And then the other thing is like the basis for
pooh poohing wigiboards. As I say, it's like the idio
motor effect. It's like this idea that like microscopic muscle
movements in a group can like guide the thing the
plan chat. But and that's you know, like the idio
motor effect is like a real thing. I'm pretty sure

(35:06):
it's been like proven to exist. But if you look
at the board like z O, like z is all
the way at the end oh, is not equally the
at the end on the opposite side, it's like one roer.
So I just think, like, if you guys, if like
like I know, people explain it away by saying like, oh,
it's just sort of like in the downtime between you know,

(35:28):
the ideo motor effect spelling out a word, people just
kind of like go to the side to side pattern
and hit that.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
I'm like, I just don't think it would hit z.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
O or ZA for that matter. Right, it's two specifics
things from each other. Yeah, it's too common. It's too
common out I would expect to see other patterns of
that sort. And that's sort of what I I kind
of come to those conclusions a lot on the show,
where I'm very open to looking at it both ways,
but sort of like, well, I would expect to see

(35:59):
more like same with like the hat Man stuff, right,
the hat Man stuff. The hat Man is this very
common shadow figure that people see oftentimes in sleep proalysis,
but people see it not during sleep paralysis. It's just
the shadow shadow man that looks like he's wearing like
a wide brimmed hat and sometimes he has red eyes.

(36:21):
There's like another thing that I would have laughed at
and thought was corny until I realized like how common
this is. And it's like a localized thing because I
mean I've I see it all over the place, right, so,
and that's kind of what makes it sort of interesting.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
It's not just like, well, these group of kids over here,
so when they're fucking around with ambient or something, it's like, no,
this is it.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Oh yeah, there's that too, Yeah, the benda dryl thing.
But but yeah that And then in sleep paralysis, there's
like a few common things people see. The other one
is like the old hag, which is like this woman
sitting on you. And then this is sort of the
same thing, but like the mayor. Then this is like
the origin for the term nightmare, is this thing sitting

(37:03):
on you and holding you down. But anyway, there's like
is it a horse? The mayor is a horse? I
think at one point it was like a horse, ye,
kind of like demon thing. I think that's what it
might have been, damn. But yeah, it's a really old term.
But they're like pretty much every culture has a similar
thing to this, and they're all similar looking, like seeing

(37:25):
this old woman on you, or in the case of
the hat man, how widespread. That is so circling back
to the unconscious talk. If it was just like the
human unconscious whatever that means, by the way, right generating this,
you'd expect to see a lot more variation, especially throughout
time and culture. Like I'd be very, very surprised, you know,

(37:46):
I just said that the whole the origin of the
term nightmare comes from this phenomenon. You would expect going
back that far that like fears would change enough.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Why would we have like.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Why wouldn't it the uh tesla? You know, that's what
we get around. We don't get around in uh on
horses anymore. We get around, so like, wow, why would
it still be a horse? Why would it be a
guy with a big hat that like is not a
style people wear anymore.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
I would expect to see more like micro trends with it,
if that makes sense, Yeah, totally. Yeah, and between cultures
and stuff, So yeah, that's those are the kind of
things that interest me, you know. And and those two
things I did laugh off at first, but then kind
of reluctantly dug into them, like, oh, this is pretty
interesting actually and frightening. So I don't really know what

(38:36):
it is. It's funny that. I mean, I think it's
sort of a stupid name. I wanted to think of
another name for that episode beside Zaza, Like it killed
me to call it. But that's like, I don't know,
I think that's interesting though, when it's a scary thing
that like I'm you know, I'm I'm normally somebody that
would think it's completely stupid, but the story is compelling

(38:56):
enough that like pulls me to the other side, right,
And it's kind of a goofy sounding name, but this
is I guess that makes.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
It scarier in a way. You're like, no, not Zaz.

Speaker 3 (39:07):
It is like something that like you would kind of
laugh at it first.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
You know, totally.

Speaker 4 (39:12):
I mean, I think that's kind of like the experience
of listening to your show, Like I remember last Time
You're on was kind of like I think you were
just getting into like the them series of episodes and
like I'm I'm I'm very skeptical, like I'm I'm one
of those people who like even though like Japan I'm Japanese,
there's like very rich ghost like you know, spooky culture

(39:36):
there that I'm like, nah, I'm not, I'm not.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Seeing any of this stuff.

Speaker 4 (39:41):
But like in listening to your show, because I mean,
like I remember when you're on last time, you're sort
of like, I don't necessarily believe in everything or at all.
It's more just like it's it's really interesting to hear
these people describe these events that have happened and them
experience them. Yeah, and them one is by far one
of the most fun out there things I've ever heard

(40:02):
in my life. If you like, give like a you know,
like a three line description of it so people kind
of understand what I'm about to, like get into here
and real quick.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
Before you were, before we started recording, you were had
to answer a text message. I have to assume it
was from one of the interdimensional.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Yeah, how do you know? How do you know?

Speaker 3 (40:21):
I will say, interesting timing. The girl from that series
is visiting right now. She's in town, so met her
in person. Yeah, I can do a soul by meetup.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
Man.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
You could look up. Yeah, maybe you'll see her walking
around in the neighborhood. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:34):
But I mean yeah, like sort of give a light
breakdown because I think it's really interesting to listen whether
or not you believe in this stuff, are skeptical. I
think it's the sense the experience of listening to it
for me was very interesting.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
I'm glad you liked it.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
Basically, it's about this girl in Norway who is kind
of feeling off and basically one night while she's in college,
sees this strange looking like man in her room, like
a ghost but not quite. She's obviously freaked out, has
a lot of really strange physical sensations as well around

(41:08):
this time, and tries to power on with her life,
but is ultimately just kind of having anxiety about it
and tweaking as you would expect. So she calls her
mom and hopes that her mom will calm her down,
tells her like, I saw this thing, like I'm feeling
all this stuff blah blah blah. But instead of her

(41:29):
mom calming her down, she was like I was afraid
this was going to happen, and was like they're talking
to you now.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
She's like what, there we go yep.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
But so she's like what And so her mom, you know,
tells her very briefly that she's been communicating with these
beings for like a long time and is essentially like,
come home to visit and we'll talk. And at that
point she finds out that the mom and a girl
from the mom's gym have been communicating with what they

(42:00):
think are interdimensional beings for a substantial amount of time
I forget how long. Yeah, And to make to make
it stranger, this girl from the gym is the same
age as Soul VI, and her and the mom have
like become very close, uh, to the point where there
she becomes like a third sister to them essentially.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah, and like kind of doppelgangers or like they have
like a lot of between them. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
Yeah, So it's like and it gets weirder from there, right,
But it's to me, it's I always like that like
start to the story is what locked me in early on,
and especially meeting Soul, I'm like, I one hundred percent
believe this girl. I mean, it's not even a question
of belief, you know, you meet her and talk to
her just like she's a very straightforward person, right, This

(42:46):
clearly happened to her and she doesn't know what it is.

Speaker 4 (42:48):
But that's the thing that like really fucked me up
about it now, because again I was like, I'm sure
there's got to be a way to explain all this,
But then I was trying to look deeper as to
what was pulling me in despite being so like logical
when I like, when I listen to things like this,
and there is something I think, because we live in

(43:09):
this like super dumbed down, like deeply disconnected world right now,
like our current like world, this modern world we're completely
disconnected from like you know, the land, from each other,
like our history and things like that. That to hear
somebody describe these sort of paranormal phenomena or experiences in

(43:30):
a way like sort of calls to something like that,
there's something there's like there's a spirituality that we've lost
on some level as human beings that even if I
believe soulvie, are not hearing this person speak about these
things that can't be explained, that they don't understand, is
like pulling at something I think much deeper, like in

(43:51):
the human experience that we just completely lack now, like
especially because that's what colonialism does to most people, like
completely it's those things are seen as like pagan or
savage or whatever.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
And the ritual and spirituality out of things, and it's
just like this is a materialist universe. Here are the
laws that explain it. We know everything no more mystery
r to work.

Speaker 4 (44:13):
Exactly, and I think there's a yearning on some level
that it surely just can't be all of this just
tangible shit on some level, even if you're religious or
not that like, there is something that we feel on
a deeper level that we can't quite explain. And I
think that's why I really enjoy listening to the show
is because even then, even if I'm like, I don't
know if this actually happened, but the sensation of hearing

(44:34):
a person sort of sincerely describe a thing, whether they're
like very talented liars or just people who are really
being very sincere, there's just something that is undeniable that
I realize. I'm like, oh, man, like there's something about
it that is like I don't know, like healing, or
there's a yearning that I didn't understand, like I had
deep within me, which is like trying to find sort

(44:56):
of like these sort of threads to something like that
isn't just tangible and just explainable like everything else has been.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
In mind, I like, I really really like that reaction,
and that's actually kind of like what I hope the
reaction I hope people have to the show or was
hoping they would have. And I think it's what why
I like this stuff, you know, where I wasn't super
into it, but I do think like when you hear
something like that, I find it comforting in a way,

(45:23):
like it kind of can make you feel small and
like remind you that, oh, yeah, we really don't know
anything still, right, and especially when like the world is
crazy or your life is crazy or anything, just things
feel out of control so often in life, you know,
I think there's there's an odd comfort to uh hearing

(45:45):
the most extreme version of that and being reminded like,
oh yeah, like not only is the world completely out
of control, like it's always been out of control, like
we don't know anything. We're just like kind of powerless,
you know, And that's fine. It's a comforting knowing that
there are these great, great mysteries that maybe we'll understand
one day, but it's okay to not know because I mean, so,

(46:08):
I think I've spound my life being a skeptic, like
a real skeptic on uh, supernatural things, and yet I
wear specific hats or don't wear specific hats based on what,
like how a basketball team that I like has performed,
which is just I think to your point about powerlessness,
it's like that is the thing I am completely unable

(46:30):
to control, and so I like invent this stupid way
that I can control it and like believe it with
my body and not my mind.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
But like fully, like I'm like, fuck, I did something
wrong on that one.

Speaker 4 (46:43):
Well, yeah, that's what's interesting too, because I remember like
a lot of people to like shows like yours or
other shows dealing with like paranormal phenomenas, Like there are
people who so deeply want to just explain why it
isn't like and it's just like and it's an unequivocal no,
this is fucking nonsense, and like I get that sort
of desire. But I think that's why I like I

(47:04):
That's what I found very interesting about listening to the episode.
It's not me necessarily trying to figure out like where
are the where are the holes in this story, because like, sure,
I can be very analytical about those kinds of things,
but I think again, it's the idea of just that
that there is something we just can't explain and it's
and sure, maybe it's manifesting in these people saying like

(47:25):
I'm experiencing X Y or z but like even knowing
someone is experiencing that, there's something like intoxicating about it too,
And I think maybe that could just be because I've
been I'm such a deep skeptic about stuff like this
where I find myself not having to be like does
this confirm my beliefs or does it completely blow them up?
I'm like finding this middle thing which it's like, no, man, Like,

(47:46):
there's something just much deeper, even if it's about like
it's not maybe necessarily interdimensional beings communicating, but we've shut
ourselves off to something that like I'm trying to figure
out how to reconnect to and not in like a
magical way, but just something that's a little bit more
outside of what is, you know, sort of academically described.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
No, absolutely, And I will say this, like, well, first
of all, as the host of this show and somebody
who wants people to just be able to like listen
and relax and like not being able to not try
to disprove everything, it is obviously frustrating, like that type
of personality who's like wants to quickly disprove things. But
I will also say that like a lot of this stuff,
even if you don't like believe it all the way.

(48:28):
Like a lot of times, like I don't have a
way to disprove it, and I try, right, A lot
of people are comfortable disproving something by just like saying
some bullshit and being okay with it not being complete.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Right. A lot of the ways people.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
Disprove these things is just like throwing out some fucking
stupid shit they heard on Wikipedia or like a podcast
one time and just being like, oh, it's like this effect,
you know, yeah, like I heard about that one time.
It's like all right, And then if you really if
you really apply it and like pick it through, it
doesn't make sense. Like it wouldn't hold up in court, right,
Like you couldn't if you actually had to disprove it,

(49:06):
like up to the standards of like a jury, you know,
that would not work. Often times, there's all sorts of
weird little things people toss around, like mold. The person
had like black mold in their house. Maybe maybe it
was black mold in their house neither.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
That's just like, right, there's the fact that even someone
is experiencing the world like that.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
I think it's just very Yeah, I would still be interested,
but yeah, I mean there's things like that that get
tossed around as if we even fully understand those and
Jack not to I'm not picking on you at all.
I do this too, but like I hear a lot
about people saying like, oh, it's just their unconscious playing
tricks on them. It's like, well, dude, that's not even
we don't even know what the unconscious mind is yet

(49:51):
or the limitations of it. So it's like that doesn't
really I'm not satisfied with that explanation ever. That gets
tossed around a lot. It's like, well, we don't know
the function, the complete functions of the unconscious mind, how
it exists. We don't know if it's completely internal. There's
people who think that it could be partly external. Yeah,
I think that it could come from somewhere else. That

(50:13):
opens things up, That opens the floodgates.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
So it's like Young believed that there was like a
shared unconscious that we like had access to that exactly.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of my interest in it, is
that it's so unknown and which is just as magical
the concept of shared unconscious and then have been going
about to sort of bring all that to it.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
Yeah, it's one of those things where like, uh, it's
sort of like the one oh one level is being
the Reddit atheist who just is like, oh, it's all fake.
But when you kind of like dig deeper, you kind
of like come out through the other side. At one
point you could kind of like keep digging through to
the other side over and over again with this stuff,
which is interesting. But yeah, like unconscious stuff. I mean

(51:00):
even bringing it back to the Wuiji board, it's like
if it is everybody's unconscious, like they're the movement on
the plan chet kind of like reaching this flow state,
like that is actually what spiritualists would say is the
key to unlocking it, right, Yeah, the people who create
like basically popularize the weedge aboard and like they don't
actually the spiritualists don't use that anymore. But like that era,

(51:23):
that era of time is like what birth this like
the talking board. But yeah, those people that believe at.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
One hundred percent would say that that is the key,
like the group working together and that shared exactly.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
I think it's so powerful and interesting. Yeah, it's it's cool.
I mean the longer you think about it, the more
you scratch your head with this stuff.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
Yeah, two of the characters like predict using the Luigi
like predict the day, the exact day that like when
or the you know, uh Zozo predicts the exact day
that their boyfriends are both going to break up with them,
And I thought that was funny, so wild, Like I
forgot this either way, it's so interesting. I forget if
it made it into the episode or not. But when

(52:05):
she told me that, I was like, do you think
there's a chance that you guys just broke up with
you because you were addicted to playing with a week?

Speaker 2 (52:13):
We're obsessed with it? But like that is what I think.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
It's like a drug where you're like connecting with this
thing in a way that is not available to you
in any in any other way. So like what whether
it's something outside or inside, I think it's you know,
powerful and interesting. I'm way more powerful than anybody is
anyone who's doing it, like being like it's just their
unconscious mind making playing tricks on them that yeah, it's

(52:39):
not dismissive, Like that actually makes it more interesting to me,
I think, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
But with the Them series, people want clean answers. There's
a certain type of person that would want like a
clear answer to that, and they go looking for it.
I wanted to disprove that one I'm not disproven. I
thought I was going to that confident I would find something.
I would like turn over enough stones that I would
find clue, right like, but I have not really even

(53:08):
formed a theory in my mind that like a hypothetical
way to disprove it all. I'm just kind of lost,
which is so spooky to me. And uh, yeah, I
don't know, that's what I mean. Same with the people
in it, they don't really know what it is whether.

Speaker 4 (53:24):
I think that's why I like even just like I
would have when I was listening to them, like I
can't wait to hear what the answer is. But then again,
as again, like the sensation of listening to it isn't
necessarily that I'm thinking of it, like logically, it's more
I'm I think it's because because I'm skeptical that part
of that, like there's a certain cynicism that comes along

(53:45):
with that, not that it's like bad or anything, but
this helped thaw that a bit and was just maybe
it's just for pure entertainment or pleasure that I could
just go, well, we don't know everything, and that's interesting
and I like it and I'll keep it there. It's
not I'm not going up calling my mom and be like, yo, mom,
we got to get right with these interdimensional beams.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Yeah, exactly. Hear the clicking sounds I'm making with my mouth,
And I.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
Think that sort of uncanny thing you're talking about of
like the experience of listening to the show is like
the we used to only learn and pass information on
via the oral tradition, and like that is learning like
hearing things as people experience them through their experience, and
like that's what I think is so powerful about the show,

(54:26):
is like it's reconnecting you with like that way of
experiencing these things that you know, we we were just
like yeah, but written tradition better. And it's like you're
cutting out a whole, very compelling way of learning about
human experience.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
Yeah, and I think like to kind of close out
the whole skepticism thing. You know, people who believe that
there is explanations for everything, it's just we simply don't.
I would be I would love to know if we
did have an explanation, Like let's just say for ghosts,
like people, there are people who legitimately believe that like

(55:03):
ghosts have been disproved, and like like whether it's infrasound
or you know, mold poisoning or something, there are people
who think that's like case closed, this is what it is.
It's just simply not the case. And what I always
say in terms of that is like, if there really
was some way to make a person see a ghost,

(55:23):
I would love to know.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
I would love to patent it is that. Should you
imagine the haunted house? You could do?

Speaker 3 (55:29):
Can you imagine the bag from the Universal Studios contract?
If I figured out, like there's a sound frequency I
could play to like vibrate somebody's brain in a way
that they see a ghost.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
All right, I'm patenting that you won't. You won't have
the podcast again, Bro, I'll be beyond James raytheon would
be knocking at your door before Universal Studio.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Yeah, let's take a quick break, we'll come back. We'll
be right that sure, and we're back and real quick.
It is the week of Halloween. I am just curious.
That's somebody who you know you've connected with all these Oh,

(56:15):
by the way, we were talking about stupid names. I
did just want to say Pazuzu, which is like an
ancient It sounds like a gen Z slang for possessed.
It sounds like a gen Z person being like I
got pazzuz. Yeah, but yeah, that's like people think that
is always like maybe thats yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:35):
Yeah, or like close to the BJ's brewers, like, hey,
have you guys had our pizus before for dessert?

Speaker 2 (56:43):
It's called a pazzuki back in the day.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
But I do feel like Halloween is a time when
US culture, like this version of the Zeitgeist, gets to
devote energy toward living with that like different very you know,
allowing those energies to kind of come out a little bit.
And yeah, I feel like there's the skeptical thing that's

(57:07):
like it's just a chance to get drunk or dress
up or whatever. But like, first of all, just connecting
with the unconscious through mask play is like a very
interesting form of therapy, and you know a thing that
I think there are interesting ways to take that what
the skeptical people are talking about and be like that

(57:28):
that's actually really interesting that just by wearing a mask,
you like change how you experienced reality in such a
way that you like almost become a different person. I'm
just curious as somebody who has experienced all these stories
and like done all this rapporting, Like what are your
thoughts on Halloween? Like, on, do you think there are

(57:49):
any icons of Halloween? They're like particularly like powerful sort
of pop cultural poor cruxes, you know what I mean, Like.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
Uhh, I mean no, personally, I mean like I am
just kind of like I think it's just because my work,
so I'm so desensitized, you know. I think it's like
the way doctors like don't get freaked out by blood
at a certain point or bodies or you know, when
you like don't want to get naked in front of
your doctor for physical and your friends like, oh, it's

(58:22):
just skinned to them, Like they don't they even like
see you as naked.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
They don't give a fuck.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
Like I think like I've developed in that kind of
like callousness towards this material, like it doesn't scare me anymore.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
Yeah, I'm not trying to sound like a badass or whatever,
but like, so what do you do like Halloween?

Speaker 1 (58:39):
You just be just being like, hey, none of this matters.
I know I should probably this is like not a
fun answer. I should just lied and told you that
I'm the biggest Halloween fan or whatever. But no, it's
become you know, it's interesting. I love Halloween. I always
have loved Halloween, but now I'm during this month, I'm
so focused on like making the episodes the best they

(58:59):
can that, Like I don't have a costume, Like I
don't really have any major plans.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
This is my busy month. Now. Yeah, I would go
on as you for Halloween. You're an icon of o
cult shit.

Speaker 3 (59:11):
Boring costume though, boring costume. But I will say, uh,
in terms of iconography, I mean the Wija board scares me. Yeah,
I think that's like a weird thing. I I and
a lot you know people put it. You know, there's
like horror fans who like put them on their wall
or whatever like that kind of free. I wouldn't do that.
I wouldn't even keep one in my house. I'm just

(59:31):
gonna be honest with you. That type of stuff I
just like wouldn't do it.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
I don't know. Wait, what's a.

Speaker 4 (59:36):
List of things you wouldn't you wouldn't keep in your
house based on everything you've encountered. Now, so Ouiji board,
don't bring that, not don't leave that.

Speaker 1 (59:43):
Heres are good though, right, that's just a Hasbro toy.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
That's fine. Most of the answers are nonsense.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
I don't know, like I think I think everybody's different.
I'll just say that everybody's different, and like if something
for freaks you out or freaks me out or unsettles me,
like I wouldn't keep it in my house, if that
makes sense. Like, so I host the show, so I'm
given stuff, I get stuff. There's like there's things that

(01:00:11):
just kind of like unsettle me. Like I I think
I was like designing merch or something. So I went
to one of those like brew Herria stores or whatever
that you see in La where it's like they sell
all the witchcraft stuff and they sell like weird Jesus
statues and like dragons, and you could buy like a
love spell. I remember buying like all the weird like

(01:00:32):
love spells or like the clone that you spray and
can make you rich. There are a couple of those
that kind of like freaked me out, just like the vibes.
So I think I got rid of that a little
too powerful. I feel like that's sort of my guidelines,
is like if it's something that's freak, you know, I
look at it as more like personal, but objectively. I
don't know if there's like any objective things that I think.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
No, I mean that they're bad. Yeah. I think that's
what's so interesting about like the paranormal is that it
speaks to everyone differently, Like whereas like any ghost right here,
I'm like, yeah, whatever, and then someone's like inter dimensional
being how I'm like, uh huh, yeah, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
I think intentions matter a lot. I know my answer
kind of sounds like a cop out or some shit.
I'm just like making up off the fly, But I
think intentions do matter, just based on like what I
hear on the show. I think like your own like
vibes for backup lack of a better word, have like
a big play on things, you know, so if it's

(01:01:35):
if it's impacting you, it might impact your home, you know,
and vice versa. Yeah, and like people, there's too long
of a story. But somebody I know had a cursed
family ring, like multi generational curse, and like things are
happening related to the ring. It is an engagement ring
that made them think of it still cursed. And she
came to me asking like, hey, do you anybody that

(01:01:57):
could uncurse the ring?

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
And I was like no, I do not I do
not know. I'm sorry. Who are headed to mountain doom
right now? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
Yeah, exactly exactly, Yeah, give them, give them some some
bread and cheese and they could take it, take it
along with them, two for one.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
But this was a friend.

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
Her name's Rosie by the way, she's been on the show.
But yeah, I mean when somebody, she was serious and
I wanted to give a serious answer, and I didn't
have an answer for her. But what I actually believed
in when I told her was I was like, you know,
obviously your research around and find somebody to do this,
but you should go with like whatever you think would
uncurse it, right, Like if you think that's a Catholic priest,

(01:02:39):
you should go to a Catholic priest. If you think
it's going to be some spooky which lady in the valley,
go there, right if you want to, yeah, like a monk,
whatever you think you should sage it, do that. Like,
I think whatever you believe the most, you know, right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Right right, that's the most powerful is like your own intent.

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
Yeah, if you're going into it thinking like this is
not gonna work, I think it's not gonna work.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
See Jack that's why you wear the Sixers hat man.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
That's right, and it works every time. That's why they're
so good. Jack Wagner, is such a pleasure having you.
Thank you for coming on at this spookiest time of
year when you're working on making the show, making amazing
episodes of the shows. Where can people find you and
follow you?

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
Other World is the name of the show. We are
available anywhere you get your podcast. I suppose recently started
uploading episodes to YouTube finally, So actually, if you are
listening right now, would actually be very helpful if you
went and subscribed to the YouTube, which I think is
called Other World Pod on YouTube.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
But just find it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
We've had a cool visualizer made for it. So nope,
but yeah, that's where you can find me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Their work of.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
Media that you've been able to come up with that
you've been enjoying.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Oh fuck, I don't know if I have a good
answer for this. Is there a horror movie that you
enjoy particularly?

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
I haven't seen a good one this year. I've I'm
so lacking in movies. The last TV show I watched
was The Pit.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
Do you guys want? Yeah? Yeah? Great TV? Yeah? Well
a proof I uh we started watching it, but uh
my wife is a physician, and it was just like
we just work.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
Yeah, just like this is like this, I might have
to go back and watch er. Yeah, I've never seen it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
Yeah, that's that's what I've heard that people like who
completed were just like I need more of this and
went back.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Yeah, I can't.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
That can be my recommendation. I can't recommend any winning
show everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
That's fine. What else?

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
What do people normally recommend that We've had the pit
recommended before.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
Yeah, people just say like what they're literally watching right now,
even if it's not interesting and just kind of giving
people a glimpse into like whatever media they're consuming right now.
But again, totally up to you.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
I'm consuming, dude, the show can assumes me sadly. So
I'm gonna plug my own show all the world and
I'll plug your show. Yeah, one of you out there
and the Dodgers and the Dodgers, how about them?

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Miles?

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
Where can people find you as there a workimedia you've
been enjoying.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
Yeah, find me everywhere at Miles of Gray. Catch me
talking about four to twenty day fiance.

Speaker 4 (01:05:22):
Catch me rooting for the Dodgers just within earshot of
Dodger Stadium screaming like a fucking demon. And let's see
a post I like actually from Blue Sky at Internet,
hippot at East Guy at Social posted they're going to
change the clocks this weekend and the president is powerless
to stop it because he's weak and a loser.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
That's what they're saying, sir, that is a Blue Sky post.
I've ever heard one.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
Let's see I like to tweet from Eli Crumbendahl, who tweeted, Unfortunately,
my nervous system can't tell the difference between needing to
answer some emails and being.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Wanted for murder.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
That is how I experienced my life. You can find
me on Twitter at jack underscorel Brian jack ob One
on Blue Sky. You can find us on Twitter and
Blue Sky at Daily zeikeistre at the Daily Zeikeist on Instagram.
You can go to the description of this episode wherever
you're listening to it, and there at the bottom you
will find the footnote. But there's where we link off

(01:06:19):
to the information that we talked about in today's episode.
We also link off to a song that we think
you might enjoy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
Is there a song that you think that people might enjoy. Yes, yes, yes,
just more.

Speaker 4 (01:06:29):
Look, I'm playing Ghost of Jota and my favorite thing
to just instrumental hip hop. I play on my spot
built in Spotify, so I changed the soundtrack so it's
kind of like Samurai Shamplu. But I've been listening to
the mad Lib Blue Note record album that he did,
Shades of Blue mad Lib Invades Blue Note, and I

(01:06:49):
just want to go out on a track. Just mad
Lib is like one of the best sample based producers
out there. This one's called Distant Land by mad Lib.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
All right, we will link off to that in the footnote.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Todailys is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the Heeartradio at Apple podcast wherever you listen to
your favorite shows, that's going to do it for us
this morning. We're back this afternoon to tell you what
is trending and we will talk to you all then
Bye bye.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
The Daily Zeit Guys is executive produced by Catherine Long,
co produced by Bee Wang, co produced by Victor Wright,
co written by j M mcnapp, edited and engineered by
Justin Connor.