ALL BALL: 1-Game Suspension Reaction, Transfer Portal Do’s and Don’ts w/ Top NIL Agent Dan Poneman, Jeff Goodman Talks Tournament, NFL Scouting Combine w/ Mark Dominick

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb and this is the
Doug Gottlieb Show. And you know, like there's a lot
of things going on in sports, some of which we
will cover, right, like the NFL scouting combine, and there
is some NBA palaver to discuss. But we are We're
in March, right, We're in March, or we're in Izzo. Yeah,

(00:32):
I was always taught. Is January, February, Iszo April a
June July. And of course Tom Izzo's Michigan State Spartans
just beat Purdue at Purdue unbelievable win, great college basketball game,
a couple extra timeouts called late where it felt like
they had it really well. Scouted Purdue's last play of
the game, which is obviously when you're a coach. Now

(00:53):
I'm a coach, Now that's the stuff I look for,
Like I tell my staff all the time, Look what
they run at the end of the game is what
the going to run at the end of the game.
So we got a prep for it. We've got to
be ready for it, and we got to be able
to execute it defensively and have a plan for how
to take them out of it, But if you haven't

(01:14):
listened to the Doug Gottlieb Show podcast since we've gotten
this form, we talked some college hoops, some about my
Green Bay squad, but we also discuss other topics. Dan
Ponoman's going to join us DP is the founder of Weave,
which is I think, by all accounts, the number one

(01:35):
agency representing current college basketball players and high school players,
the international players as well. I don't have the numbers.
I'm sure there are very much others. We know, we
get lists, but I'll just give you kind of a
snapshot of what it's like from my perspective. Right. Obviously,
this year, by many people's assessments, has been a tremendous

(01:59):
turn run here. Right, We've won four times as many
games this year as we won last year, and we
still have games to play. It's interesting because I'm so
not wired that way. Right by my estimation, we ste
have twenty wins right now. I can think of four
games which we absolutely positively should have won, and collectively
we didn't do enough down the stretch in a game

(02:20):
in which, on that particular day I felt like we
were the better basketball team, and we did not either execute.
Maybe I didn't make the right stub, we didn't call
the right time out, missed an assignment, you know, didn't
play with the right toughness. And as you guys know,
there was a couple where I had some issues with
some officiating. That's a really strange place to be where

(02:44):
you go back a week ago and I was suspended
for a game by the Horizon League for I guess
for criticizing the officials, but that wasn't actually what I
was told I was suspended for. But regardless, I was
suspended for a game. We beat Oakland with Carrie Rupp,
my assistant coach at the Helm, and then we lost

(03:06):
to Detroit when I was the coach. So there's your
answer for who should be coaching this basketball team. But
it's weird, right like when you're coaching and you feel
like you're wearing a scarlet letter because you've criticized officials
and it's a fraternity, whether they're all buddies with each
other or not, there is a certain kind of defiance
to who we are, what we're about. I never questioned

(03:27):
anybody's integrity. I think that's a really big distinction in
my criticism and fans criticism. I think you can be
bad at your job for a day. I think you
can be bad at your job and not a bad person.
You're just not that good. And I think you can
have a bad moment or two. If you're a parent,

(03:51):
you know all about this, like, man, I wish I
hadn't yelled, or if you spent like I spanked my children.
I think one time a piece. Maybe Harberg got it twice.
I don't know, because she could really get into your skin,
but I remember the moment you go back into your
bedroom and with my then wife, and she was very
much against sort of corporal punishment, even though we both

(04:12):
got corp punishment when we were kids. You're just like, ah,
it's a bad moment, right, it's bad moment, lost my
cool with my kids. It's the same thing as an official.
It's the same thing as a coach, the same thing
as a player. So I do think it's really important
that I don't know the level of integrity with officials.

(04:35):
And this is probably one of my blind spots as
a human being is I do trust more people than
I should trust. I do believe in the good and
human beings. I just do. I don't think everybody has
some nefarious thought on their mind and things that they
want to screw people over and whatever. But on that
particular day, I didn't think like it was right for
our guys, and I was treated right personally. But it

(04:57):
did also I think a affected my coaching because there
were moments where I was so caught up in the
what is going on here? I didn't coach through it.
Fast forward to the Sunday game we played Detroit. You know,
anytime there's a questionable call, you start to think to yourself,
was that a questionable call because the guy just missed it?

(05:20):
Was it a questionable call because he's trying to make
a point that the or the officiating community is a
tight one. I don't know the answer to it. I
just know it's a very like out of body sort
of experience to go through. And by out of body,
I mean you know how they say when you die,
you like can see yourself, You're like floating over yourself

(05:41):
kind of how it felt like I'm sitting there like
floating over Was it called Calligan Calligan Arena, which used
to be this glorious arena in Detroit just needs money,
needs to be redone. And I remember sitting there you're
watching Calighan, You're like, wait, is this happening again? Or
is this me? Or am I assuming? Am I seeing ghosts?
Was there really a foul there that I missed? Are they?

(06:02):
Are they out to get me? Or they out to
get us? And so you end up kind of muttering
to yourself and if you don't step back into it,
you can lose your concentration for your team, which is
all that really really matters, all that really matters. But
in year two of this experience as being a head coach,
I really enjoyed it, and I know there are things

(06:22):
I got to do better and things that I learned
with every game, with every practice, and I learned from
veteran coaches who are my staff and guys that we
go against. And I do think that the number one
thing you need in any position of leadership was what
I learned when I first worked at ESPN, which is

(06:43):
you need feedback and need honest feedback, and you don't
need the feedback of you are great, that's not feedback. Hey,
what were you one thing? What were you thinking here?
What do you think about doing this next time? And
I'm like, yeah, that's a good way of presenting feedback,
what were you doing here? And you know, what do

(07:09):
you think about doing it something different next time? And
I would say that last year I got good feedback
from outside of my coaches, from other coaches, and this
year I've gotten great feedback from my coaches. And while
it's been an incredible experience to go from fearing that

(07:31):
it's going to fall apart and expecting to lose to
being really disappointed that you didn't win, any competitive person
looks at it and is honest with themselves and says,
we should have won more. And if you're not, Kobe
Bryant once said, you know, the struggle for competitive people
is when they're surrounded by people weren't competitive, like they

(07:53):
think you're crazy. And that's okay. It's not for everybody,
but it's definitely not for the mee. And if being
a competitor, if pushing yourself every day to win isn't
your thing, that I don't know how you do. I
don't know how you do it. You probably get up
out of bed with a with a little bit more peace.

(08:16):
But I'm not coaching college basketball for peace. Coaching college
basketball or success. You know, to raise up a program
to build up the awareness of a university, to build
up the awareness of a place in the country, which
I thoroughly enjoy living now. Part of it is it's
fifty three degrees outside at the time of this recording,

(08:36):
so I'm enjoying it more at this particular moment than
I did, like I don't know, four weeks ago when
it was negative. Whatever. The point is, I love living here.
I love Green Bay. And when you win college basketball
games and you bring positive attention to a program to
an area, it organically promotes that school, that area, and

(08:57):
those players. That's why we do it. But you only
get that attention if you win, not if you try hard,
and if you do it the right way, you build
it the right way, you win consistently. So that's the goal.
All right, let's welcome in our guy DP. It's Dan Ponneman,
who's the co founder and CEO of Weave, which is

(09:20):
the biggest sports agency covering college basketball, and DP welcome
back to the to the homeland. As I know you've
you've been traveling the past couple of weeks. Okay, so
let's start with a question that I honestly have and
I think a lot of people in the industry have,
which is you have clients and they're on a team

(09:45):
that is not going to play in the NCAA tournament,
you know, barring some miraculous turnaround, right and whether they
want out or their coach is going to get rid
of them or whatever, but or their coach is just
going to move on, or maybe their coach is going
to get fired. I don't know, but it's a fairly
foregone conclusion. They're going to be in the portal in

(10:05):
a month. What do you tell them about how they
should approach every day at practice in games.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Well, what's funny is, first I'll say, you know this
type of year, Well, this season is still going on.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
You know, the portal's not open.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
But I hear from a lot of coaches asking who
you're going to have in the portal, and I would
say eighty percent of those coaches are exactly you described,
the teams that aren't really competing for much. I think
teams that know they're going to be in the tournament
are focused more on that. But teams that know they're
not playing for a championship or playing to make the tournament,
they're already focused on next year. Now, our policy as

(10:41):
a company is I generally do not shop guys until
their season's done.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
Now do we wait until the portal opens?

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Not always.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
We talk about guys, you know, for those weeks leading
up to the portal. But I don't bring up guys
who are currently still playing for other programs. Is out
of respect to their coaches, to themselves or their teammates.
You don't want a coach to hear oh, your star
players agents started shopping and you know you want you
still want to give that team the best chance to
finish their season strong.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
And I know that's not common.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
The reason these coaches are calling asking about guys that
these other agents are shopping guys for us.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
We wait out of respect.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Okay, But but additionally, there's still always something to play for.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
You hope that a guy has the you know wherewithal to.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Understand you're still competing for yourself and you're finished strong
for your teammates who might be maybe you don't have
the resume you have and still have something to play
for for your coaches who are maybe trying to save
their jobs and just to finish what you started.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
And also I remind guys that when you're in the portal.
The new schools are.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Going to ask your old coach about you, and do
you want a guy who do you want the coaches
to say, yeah, he gave up on us when he
knew he was entering the portal, or do you want
to say no, he finished strong and played for his
teammates even though he wasn't much to play for, and
recognize that is something to play for you.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
You might make yourself an extra hundred thousand and lose one.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Hundred thousand if you give up the last few games
because of reputational damage for you not being a team player.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
I don't think. I think there's no question about it,
no question. How do you establish what the market is
going to be like considering there the portal hasn't opened yet, right,
portal hasn't opened yet. And for people who aren't familiar,
last year, because of the house settlement, there was this

(12:26):
rush to get deals done before July first, and some
of those deals were not only front loaded, but they
also may have been at a higher dollar value then
we'll see this year because it didn't have to go.
No one knew what was going to happen, and going
through the nil stuff, you have to run through with
the NCAA et cetera and the clearinghouse. So my question is,

(12:50):
how do you when somebody says, ooh, I like this kid,
what's it going to cost? How do you come upon
a value this year when the market hasn't I guess
been a steablished it this year.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Well, despite the rule changes, you know, there is an
assumption that the market this year will be at least
the same, if not bigger than last year. And we
judge that also by the football portal seeing that despite
all of the you know, fear around the market going
down because of the rule changes with house settlement, that
the football market still went up. Quarterbacks got paid more

(13:22):
than ever, you know, budgets were bigger than that. But
they just found ways to do it using various mechanisms
that went through the CSC, and it worked. Now a
lot of times coaches will ask me, like I said,
for guys who aren't in the portal yet, what's his
market value? And to that, I say, we'll find out
when the market opens. Right, it's I can judge based

(13:43):
on stats and production and last year's market and different
positional values. I can judge what I think a guy's
market will be but also I don't want to pay
a guy at too low of a value or too
high of a value, and you kind of let the
market start to dictate what.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
That value is.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
My negotiating strategy is different than other agents. Some agents
will go in with a price that they want and
just say this is the number I think he's worth this.
My strategy is generally establish a floor and work your
way up from there. I think he's worth more than this, right,
and then you see what schools are willing to swim
in that pool, play in that sandbox, and then work
it up from there and see what that limit becomes.

(14:18):
There's one player last year that, like my models said,
was worth at least seven hundred and fifty thousand. So
my initial asked was, hey, this is the minimum we're
going to be looking at. He end up getting one
point four million. Ok Now, if I had started that
negotiating at one point four million, we might not have
ever gotten there, might have scared away schools at the start,
But the market tends to compete up prices. Where you

(14:39):
let a natural ceiling establish itself, you see where the
threshold is based on what schools really want to spend
and how much they want to pay for a guy.
So my strategy is a little different. That's what I
teach my agents as well. You don't want to price
guys out of their market by shooting too high. So
this juncture is kind of like, hey, this is what
I think his minimum is, and then we'll see how
high it goes.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
So you have how many people working under you?

Speaker 2 (15:00):
We have nineteen full time employees right now? Or full
time staff members?

Speaker 1 (15:04):
Okay? Do all nineteen represent players? No?

Speaker 4 (15:07):
No?

Speaker 3 (15:07):
About half represent players? Half our support.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah, so let's say ten. Okay, So of those ten,
are they allowed carte blanche of establishing what the floor is?
Does it have to go through you? What is your
process in establishing for not you? Right? You said you
have your own metrics, your own way of understanding market value.
You have nine other guys, many of whom have done
it previously last year for you. Some have done it

(15:33):
on their own, right, How do you what do you
do with your employees on a player who's at a
lower level, They've repped and they're asked what their what
their value is?

Speaker 2 (15:46):
Well, we have a lot of team meetings where we
talk about that stuff. How do we what analytics do
we use to establish what someone's market value is. We
have a lot of different models. We also get information
from other programs, maybe programs that aren't necessarily going to
for that guy, but what do your models say he's worth?

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Or we get a lot of data to establish what
we think someone's ranges. And actually next week on Friday,
I was just talking to Hadarho, you know about this.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
We're having one on ones with each of our agents
to go through each player individually and talk about each
unique circumstance. What we think their floor is, what we
think their ceiling is, what type of program will work
for them? And we have constant check ins throughout the
portal where my experience and my knowledge and my data
can help support our agents and understanding how to navigate

(16:30):
for each individual player, because it's not just numbers, it's
not just dollars, it's not just stats. It's also who
is the individual? What type of thing is he seeking?
Does this player want a certain type of degree, does
he want to focus on a sort of geographic region?
Would rather be the best player on a bad team
or the fourth best player on a tournament team? Right,
Understanding the unique needs of each client and then building

(16:50):
a strategy around each client. So it's really a tailored
approach to each client. But specifically when it comes to
market value, we have internal metrics advanced statistics modeling that
help establish ranges for each guy, and that might be
one range for a high major, one range for a
mid major plus. Knowing that the budgets are different, like
we're pretty advanced in this type.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
Of stuff, that we're pretty prepared going into portal.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
What do you think the difference in markets is in
the overall budget for the different levels is right? Like
we've seen this year, Kentucky's reported to be the top
at twenty two million.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
Which I think is they spent. I think they spent
closer to twelve to fifteen.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Okay, so twelve to fifteen generally high majors, low end
of the power for power five is.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
What low end of the powerful power five is like
three to.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
Four million, okay, and then high end is in the
fifteen million range. Yeah, okay, so that's power four power five.
So you have mid major plus right or whatever you
want to call the A ten some of the WCC,

(18:03):
you know, the best of everybody else. I was told
four million is the ceiling there.

Speaker 3 (18:10):
Well, let's take out Gonzaga. Let's take out Brand Canyon.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Okay, it's very important that you don't take them out
just for this one thing. Okay. And I don't know
how you feel about it, but there's people that I like.
I'll tell you a guy that I like, but he
really doesn't know what he's doing in this sense is again,
Kevin Connors at ESPN. So Kevin's a host. He's a

(18:34):
really good he's a very good guy. He loves college basketball,
and I think he hosts their college basketball shows. So
he does his mid major rankings, and I just want
to grab him and go, like Kevin, Gonzaga is not
a mid major. Grand Canyon is not a mid major, right,
And what establishes your status is your budget, right, your

(18:55):
budget Grand Canyan's budget is I've been told seven. Is
that fair? Somewhere in the neighborhood, it could be, right.
Gonzaga is where definitely over ten. Okay, So we're talking
big boy money. So please don't do that, because you
what happens is people who are invested in the sport
and love to talk about rankings whatever. Please don't put Gonzaga.

(19:18):
Please don't put Grand Canyon. Who would the others be
that that? That are that?

Speaker 3 (19:22):
Are you cold? Say b c U, Yeah, maybe Dayton.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Trying to think what else do you?

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (19:31):
You to state's budget. They haven't been major budget. They
just do a lot with that.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
They do a lot. They're amazing. Every coach there's only
been one years.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
I don't know their a D. But he's fantastic. Everybody
they hired, it's great.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Well it's a new a D because the old they
had a previous a D. They've they've gone through ads
here in LESCo, whatever's.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
In the water in Logan, Utah. I've been there.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
It's a beautiful place, but it is that mountain there
that they just keep making good hires.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
It's great. It's amazing what Jeric Calhoun has has done there. Okay,
so not name Gonzaga. We can take VCU out, we
can take Grand Canyon out, but that kind of next
level down right, A ten, I know, is full of these.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
Just again, when you look at A ten mountain West
newpac twelve American, there's quite.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
A few in the three to four million range, quite
a few.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
You take Memphis out, that's another outlier, right, there's quite
a few in that three four million range. Like I'm
not saying specifics, don't I'm not giving a specific budgetary info.
But just like the schools you know, the South Florida is,
the Wichita States, the New Mexico's, the Utah State schools
that I don't have their I'm not going to disclose
specific budgetary information, but like you can tell based on
their roster and their continued success and their ability to

(20:40):
beat some high majors for recruiting battle, they've got three
to four million. And I think when you talk about
the budgetary changes with the CSC, that really only affects
the Power four, right, because if there's a twenty point
five million cap, that only matters if you have to
split that with football, Big and other sports, Fall Sports, Big, East,
A ten.

Speaker 3 (20:57):
These other schools aren't hitting that cap.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
So I actually expect budgets to go up across the
board and every league except for the Power for this.
You have talked to some biggie schools that were at
four five million last year that are going to be
at eight to ten this year. I've talked to some
WCC schools that were at two million or one and
a half last year.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
They'll we have three this year, budgets will go up
across the board.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
It's just a power four that are constricted having to
figure out how to work with the CSC to do
above the cap.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
And I out, I think, I know you're right because
our budget is going to go up. And you know
last year when you know, we were way below where
we need to be budget wise, and then thankfully my
athletic director Josh Bun went to the Horizon League Championship,
sat with the other athletic directors like how much you
guys spending and he told me that we got to

(21:41):
pick it up. But the problem is when you're trying
to catch up, you're still going to be behind because
there everyone's going You think everyone's going up. Yeah, that's
that's that's the assumption. So it is. It is fascinating
to see what happened. What is the international market going
to be like this year?

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Well, I would say there's two levels of international markets. Okay,
so internet there's international elite players like we saw what
University of Illinois did right or like BYU with igor
you know where, or Old miss with it with the
guard who just got granted extra year today, Like you
see the elite international players that are making a million
or two million dollars, right, we have we have some

(22:21):
of those guys that we represent where they've performed at
the ACB, at the year league level.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
They're established high level pros.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
But one thing that we specialize in that we've is
that next level down of guys who could become that
And that's where it gets complicated and hard for coaches
throughout their head around. Right, if you're an assistant coach
for twenty years, when you're used to recruiting at the
Nike peach Sham or the Idea's couplet, how do you
compare that player's value to a guy who's maybe been
playing second division Lithuania, who's eighteen years old but has

(22:49):
really good numbers or played really well in the FIBA
Under eighteen B division. Right, So I have scouts on
my team, agents on my team that spend all year
going through Europe watching these guys in person, so we
can communicate that value to schools and let them know
this guy is this good and he's a pro and XYZ. Now,
we actually don't care that much about first year price

(23:11):
when it comes to international players outside of that tier one.
We care more about a really good landing spot for
a guy to elevate their career from. Like, for instance,
we have some guys at UT Martin this year. Shout
out Jeremy Shulman. They're having a fantastic here in the OVC,
guys who are making not very much to nothing. But
we realized that UT Martin was a great fertile launching

(23:32):
pad for guys to co establish himself, play really well,
create value, and maybe you could have gotten one hundred
thousand years somewhere else and you're getting ten thousand at
UT Martin. But if you dominate and you make a
million the next year, it's worth the pay cut to
go to a place where you can showcase yourself. We
love finding programs like that that we can use as
launching pads for guys' careers, and I think for European

(23:54):
guys specifically, it's valuable because a lot of high major
coaches are scared of making big finance investments on what
they consider to be unknown commodities.

Speaker 3 (24:03):
You might have never seen this person play live.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
I mean, I can tell you it's hard. Obviously, we've
had several internationals and it takes a while from for
all sides to adjust. It's a different way of playing
the exact same sport, different way of being coached, and
then you know, you still got to get established in
school and fitting in with teammates. It's a fascinating exercise
to watch these players and to see who fits and

(24:26):
who doesn't. Let's go to this. Okay, let's start with
the negative and then go to the positive. Okay, give
me three don'ts. Don't do this if you're dealing, let's
just say with you forget about you can't speak to
other agencies. Okay, but your agency is wide spanning, as

(24:47):
you said, nineteen people working underneath you, somewhere around ten
other agents. What's a don't in dealing with we've.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
If you're a college coach, first don't is don't go
directly to the player to try to negotiate.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
Go through the agent.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
They have hired an agent and told you to talk
to the agent for a specific reason. And if you're
going directly to the player, it feels that you're subverting
the channels of communication that have been established to try
to get yourself a better deal, or to try to
emotionally manipulate that player into getting them for a better price.
I've seen as many times where they know if they
call them that the price is going to be whatever

(25:22):
the fair market value is. But if they go directly
to the player and say, I love you, you're so great,
how would you like to stay for this? Making back
get into a corner of being emotionally manipulated by a
coach who controls their minutes and to agree to something
that's less than their worth. Then they're going to get
a better deal short term, but long term, we're not
going to deal with them anymore.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
They don't trust them.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
Right.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Similarly, there are some coaches that will actually tell players, hey,
you don't need that agent. He's just going to take
a percentage of your money. Just deal with me and
I'll give you you're going to The deal's not going
to change. It's going to be the same deal anyway,
which is never the case.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
Right.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
If that was the case, they wouldn't be afraid to
call the agent.

Speaker 5 (25:57):
Piece.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
The deal is the deal.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
The deal is the deal, but they're telling you that
it's I'd always say it's like a shark talent telling
of fish you can swim over here. I'm going to
protect you from the other sharks. Your agents the shark,
I'm your coach, but really they're trying to emotionally manipulate
the players into getting better deals. And we do not
like that because you're putting the player in position where
they've hired an agent to handle their business so they

(26:18):
can play basketball, and now you're putting them in the
middle of a situation that is an uncomfortable situation where
you don't want to upset the coach that controls for minutes,
but you also want what's fair. That's why you hired
an agent. And you would never see that in pro basketball.
I have a player with the Bulls. Their front off
is never going directly to the player and saying, hey,
you know you don't need your We're going to just

(26:39):
give you this deal.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
Would never have Dan hold On. Now, okay, player enters
the NBA, they have representation. There are many players that
play in college basketball that don't have an agent and
they're thinking about hiring an agent, and you're sitting there going, okay,
you know, listen, if you're going to stay here and
play for me, we have the built in relationship. I

(27:04):
do understand. Again, one of the reasons I generally actually
agree with you, and this is gonna sound weird, right.
I actually agree with you that even players on my
team if they if they have established representation, because nothing
good comes of a negotiation when it's between player and
coach because you can't have real conversations with them. You

(27:26):
just you can't. And this goes back to my days
as a broadcaster where anytime ESPN, for example, they would
try and do that all the time. You don't need
an agent. It's just gonna take your money, right, I
don't know, Let's get a deal done without an agent,
and of course your agent finds out about it and
they hit the roof. But the other part to it
is you can't have a real conversation with your boss

(27:46):
because you shouldn't know everything that they're saying about you,
and they should know everything you're saying about them. It's
just it's unhealthy. You actually need that third party, that uh,
that mediator, if you will. I do think the one
part I would dis agree with you on is the
kid who's like thinking about hire an agent talking to
some people, but I might want to come back, Like, look, dude,

(28:08):
if you want to come back, I would. I'm just
going to tell you that this is there's no agent
fies here. You have an established role here, you have
an established relationship with me here, and you know everything
we do and how we do it. That's the baseline
for how it's going to be. It's very likely to
be better next year because you're returning and you're going

(28:28):
to get more. I do think there's room for that
conversation more so than the conversation you're previously talking.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
If a player doesn't have an agent, then they haven't
already told you they have an agent, and they want
to have that conversation with you.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
That's totally appropriate.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
It's just different when you have an agent, particularly one
agent that they came in with.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
And then you subvert those challenges, no question.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Also, I often tell I'm probably divulging too many trade seekers,
but often well tell a player if we're recruiting like
a mid major guy, Hey, if you go back to
your current school and whatever their first offer is is
what you take. I'm not going to take a percentage
from you. I only deserve to get paid if I
raise the value of offer more than what my commission is.
I don't want to take I don't want your number

(29:04):
to go down because you hired me. It should only
go up, it should only be additive, and I think
that's uncommon. I also think it's always an uncomfortable situation
when you sign a player who's out of school and
then you renegotiating your return to the player. I would say,
it's like you walked in someone's house who stole the TV,
and you're selling it back to him for an increased price, right,
but as an individual.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
Not a TV.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
But you know, there are tricky things with these these relationships.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
But I think that's.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Also why I advise and teach my staff to do
things differently.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
Like I think.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
You know, in the situations you describe, there are some
agents who might just come in and say, because I'm
signing you, you're going to go in the transfer portal
because I want to get paid. That's not our policy.
We want guys to return to the schools or out
if it's a better situation for their development long term.
I'll tell you one funny story about this exact situation.
There's a player that I was trying to sign and
he tells his coach, hey.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
I think I'm thinking about Is that a mind made?

Speaker 2 (29:57):
I'm thinking about signing with Weave And the coach gives
that speech, I you don't need an agent.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
They're just going to take some of your money.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
You don't need to I'm going to give you the
same deal and I know, and if you transfer, i'll
help you navigate through the portal and you don't need
to pay them.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
I'll do it for free.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
What's funny is this exact coach and I had a
screenshot of it the previous year had texted me said, Hey, Dan,
I'm trying to retain some of my players and I
don't know much about market value in this marketplace. Can
you get on the phone with me and advise me
on what these players are worth so I can give
them consummate offers to what the market value is.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
So here's a coach telling a.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Player, don't pay Weave to help you establish market value
and understand what you're worth in the portal because I know,
and I'll help you for free. But the same coach
six months earlier was texting me to teach him market value.
So I thought that was just direct comparison. Was comical,
and I understood why the coach was doing it because
it's like, well, if I get him to not hire Weave,

(30:47):
I might get away with keeping him here for free,
and if he does and if he does transfer, maybe
I can use him to help get a better job,
or maybe I can help out one of my homies
and maybe he'll know he'll get a better job, and
I'll take his job afterwards.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
So I get why he was doing it.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
But you know, that was an easy explanation of that
player of like, yeah, your coach only knows market value
because I taught him.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
All right, let's get to another. So the first don't is,
don't try and negotiate. Don't try and work around an
agent if the player is represented by the agent. If
you want to deal with WEEF, give me another dope.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Another don't is, if we establish a number and we
agree to a number, don't send us a contract that
says something different. Don't send us a contract that backloads payments.
We are operating under the assumption that if we agree
to a number, that that contract will reflect that number
for this season. Right, if we say five hundred thousand,

(31:45):
I don't want a contract that says, oh, it's three
fifty for this year and one to fifty next to June.
If you stay no, no, no, no, no, that's a retention bonus
for next year. The numbers we agree to are for
this upcoming season, and if you want a retention bonus,
we talk about that on the front end. Another don't
don't say a number as if it's true, and then
later on say, oh, I talked to my head coach

(32:07):
or I talked to my ad and actually the numbers
can be lower because we're navigating through the portal. If
we think we have this offer for five hundred thousand
in our back pocket and we know we can fall
back on that, and we're canceling out other options thinking
we have this offer here.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
Now.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
I get if something materially changes, like you get another
commitment that you commit some other other money.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Okay, I get it.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
But don't lure a player with a big offer and
then once you're on the five yard line, change that
offer because that's disingenuous. That's not okay, And they might
have turned down other offers that were close to that
by trusting you. So with my staff, we're so big
on trust, and a lot of what we sell to
players is I've been doing this twenty years. A lot
of guys in my staff have been doing this ten
fifteen years. We have trust with schools. They don't lie

(32:51):
to us. They tell us the truth. They communicates. There's
checks and balances with those relationships. So if you give
us reason to not trust you, like lying about a
number and changing it or coming to an agreement and
the contract reflects something different, we no longer can trust
you and you're going to get docked. We have an
internal system of greed to red and how much we
can trust a coach.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
You're going to go to the red zone, and that.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Means you're at the back of the line if fault
ins are equal.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Okay, So those are the don'ts give me the dues?
What are the things that when coaches do this, you're
like this guy, We're good regardless of if things work
out or not.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
Do be honest and realize we're not playing games again.
This is with WEAVE.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
I don't know about other agencies, but do be honest,
like I always tell players, if you don't have us,
A coach might tell ten guys I'm recruiting you to
be a starter, and they know who the five are.
When you're talking to us, it's okay to tell us
I'm recruiting them to be a backup.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
I'm recruiting them for fifteen minutes a game.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
We'd rather you tell us that so we can operate
in realities than to lie, and then we're not going
to deal with you again if you lie to us.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
I always tell guys, if they.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
Recruit you to be a starter and you go and
you shoot ten percent from three and turn the ball
over and they bench you, that is not my fault.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
That it's not coach's fault. That is your fault.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
You play better, right, But be honest about role. Be
honest about how you intend to develop this player. Be
honest about the fears you have and apprehensions like don't
give me a sales pitch, don't sell me a dream,
tell me reality. Because I'm advising a young man's life.
I got to tell them the good and the bad.
I got to tell them what could what the upside

(34:22):
could be, and what could go wrong if they don't
play well or or they don't perform well off the court.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
Right, So just be honest. We're not playing games with you.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
I know there's a for people who don't know us,
there's a natural inclination to be distrustful of agents, like
we're all about money, We're not all about money. We're
about helping guide our guys to better lives and financial
prosperity and pro basketball careers. So give us real information
so we can advise our guys honestly.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
We just want honest it. We don't want to play games.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
And if we tell you this is the price, don't
think that we're playing.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Games and trying to go high. So you go low, No,
you will. It's funny.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
I was talking thinking about Hedar, who works for me,
you know, darting today, about our negotiation for a salary
next year, and I'm going to tell him what it is.
I'm not going to go high, so we can go low.
So we can go high and then meet in the middle.
We're im gonna say this is the price, this is
what you're worth. And we do the same with players.
We don't play games. We're honest, So be honest with
us and we can get to deals.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
A lot faster. All right, give me two more dudes.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
And be honest about like where they are in the
pecking order. If you need a point guard and they're
the fourth on your list and you're going for some
other guys, be honest about that so we can explore
other options if there was one school last year at
SEC school, and this helps.

Speaker 3 (35:31):
When we have a lot of clients.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
We know where they were telling two of our different
point guards, you're number one on our list. You're the
top guy on our point guard list. And they offered
one million, and they offered one seven hundred thousand, and
they offered another point guard two million. So I knew
all of that, and I'm like, they are full of crap, right, Like,
be honest, Hey, we're going after some other dudes. If
we miss on them, you're next up, and then you'll

(35:52):
be the starter.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
Right, But don't.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Tell everybody you're number one on our list because we're
going to find out that's not sure that we're not
going to trust you.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
It's okay.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Not everybody would would go get aj Debosa and Kingston
Fleming's if they could.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
You're not number one. No one's number one on anybody's list.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
You hope you're number one on your wife's list, and
other than that, you're not number one on anybody's list.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
I'm sure Green Bay would have loved to hire Phil Jackson.
I guess he's a little old. But you know what
they land on. Doug Gottlieb and that's great. He became
number one and that's okay. So just don't lie to us.
Tell us where are guys. I've had some guys who've
been eighth options.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
They missed on the.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
Seven and they got there and they'd end up being
all conference players and that worked out great as long
as you're number one when the deals signed. But be
honest so we can operate, so we're not in a
holding pattern thinking we're number one.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Well, you're not.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Sending us a contract in your secret be trying to go.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
Get other guys.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
I'll give you the last one, which is a do
for me and I have it for all of my staff.
Something I believe in in life, but it's definitely in
this case. Don't ever burn the boats, burn the bridge, right,
because what happens with coaches. You get so emotional, you
get so invested, you see the vision. This is the

(37:05):
kid who's gonna win me games and get me the
new contract whatever, and you you, and then the kid
goes somewhere else and you lose your lose your mind,
you lose your mind, you burn the bridge. And I
would guess that even though you're still going to do business.
With somebody who has money in the future. Uh, if

(37:26):
all things are equal, you'd probably steer him somewhere else. Dan,
you're the best man. Always interesting to catch up with you.
I know this is getting to a very very very
very busy like you're This is tax season, right, and
it's actually interesting you and accountants kind of have the
same schedule this year with the portal opening a little
bit later, so I know you're busy. I love having

(37:49):
you on Shabat alone. Thanks so much for taking time
with us. We'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Shabot Loman Happy promo.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
Let's talk some college who. If you know anything about
college hoops, you're going to know what Field of sixty
eight is. If you don't, that's okay, I'm gonna give
you a little tip. Okay, you can watch their shows
where they're stream You can even just watch that x
or you can download them in podcast form just type
in Field of sixty eight. It's awesome. They have mid

(38:21):
major show. They had shows every night talking about college basketball.
They got guys that are really really inside, former coaches,
former players, and Jeff Goodman of course, who's helped start
the midling up. You're a former year I know I
would you are slappy, but but you're the you were

(38:41):
a I don't want to say you're a former insider
because you're still an insider. This is just you've just
evolved with the wave of how broadcasting works now, journalism
works now. So anyway, Jeff Jeff Goodman joins us, there's
a million things I want to I want to get to,
But you guys are doing a bunch on theurnament and

(39:02):
I think it's really interesting because let's have the honest discussion.
There's always been the mid major versus the high major.
Would you take a high major you know who's finished
below five hundred in their league, but their numbers are
better than the mid major won their league? Like, are
we are we doing the take the best teams, the

(39:22):
most talented teams? Are we doing the Hey, they've had
a good season. Thing? Because with regards to Miami of Ohio,
we can get we can get to miam of Ohio.
There's a myriad of schools, but it's just like there's
it's not minam Ohio wouldn't be competitive with the Miami Hurricanes.

(39:45):
They just wouldn't. Like one team's a ten million dollar team.
One team is probably, I don't know, million five?

Speaker 6 (39:50):
Yeah, probably, So you think there are two. I mean,
I know Travis got some money.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
I do know they have some money. I don't know
where the money is in the team. I haven't. I
don't know them much. I mean, they got everybody back
from a winning team.

Speaker 6 (40:04):
So my guess is they were offered some money last year,
right Like they weren't.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
They weren't a bottom feeder in the MAC.

Speaker 6 (40:11):
They were the second best team in the MAC, and
everybody came back. So my guess is, yeah, I mean
I feel.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Like you look at their top players, what do you
think that really looks like financially the top six players
for them?

Speaker 6 (40:24):
Yeah, for them, I think you know you overpay to
keep them. You're gonna have to overpay to retain all
those guys, I would assume, because.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Sometimes you don't. Every kid is different. Sometimes you don't,
you know, I think the biggest Southern. I was at
Charleston Southern last night.

Speaker 6 (40:40):
And uh and one of the coaches there told me
their two best players still be a year of eligibility left.
One didn't play last night, and he said, combined, they've
already been offered about one point two one point three
between the two of them at Charleston Southern. Now, again,
good players probably you know, probably go high major.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (41:00):
I would guess yeah, somewhere in that. If you told
me one to five, you told me two five, I
wouldn't be shocked either. For Miami University only because again
I think they retained everybody, and that's really, really, really
hard to do.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
It's interesting because there's there's another team that's retained everybody
in the valley in Illinois State, and they've struggled this year.
So the idea of bringing everyboduck sounds good. About thousand
what about thousand? Pat Scary Bright is two best players back.

Speaker 6 (41:29):
Probably paid them ninety percent of their total payroll, and
they've sucked this year.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
They were paid first. Yeah, I know. And it's really
interesting because they took a kid out of our league
who is at Wright State, who was just awesome defensively,
and they haven't gotten a ton, a ton out of
it or a ton out of them. They did just
beat Elon, who has another kid from our league who
we recruited, Chandler Cuthrow, who's been amazing this year. But yeah,

(42:01):
I mean, it's uh, it's it's his name, Jack Dumbia.
There's like six'. SIX i, mean HE'S i would, say
let's get back to your eleven eleven and five and a.
Half let's get back Here bossom. Defensive, YEAH i.

Speaker 6 (42:13):
Like your point, early which, is what do you do
like if if you're the, committee are you taking the?
Mids you? Know to, ME i think you need a
certain amount of mid major at. LARGEST i just. DO
i think it's good for the. TOURNAMENT i think it's
good For i'm not saying again we. ALL i think
we all agree with how the tournament should play.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Out. Right we want the.

Speaker 6 (42:35):
Cinderellas in the first weekend last, year it wasn't a
great first. Weekend we need more, cinderellas we need more opposets.
Early but when we get to the leave eight final,
four we want the big.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Boys well it wasn't but it wasn't a good first
weekend because of the disparity and the money and the
disparity and the. Talent, yes the is it a. Chasm
it is a. Chasm the space between the two has grown, whiter,
right has grown. Whiter and, sure REMEMBER i remember last, year,

(43:11):
kid you Can i'll just a Kid i'll just give
You obviously last year we weren't very. Good but when
we Had Anthony, ROY i, mean he was. Talented he
could give you thirty a. Night. Right so we Play
Ohio state and we cut it to eight late in
the second half and we're getting and you, know one
of my assistants had been, on, hey we need to

(43:32):
what's Why i'm forgetting what's the point guard's. Name he's
really really, Good Bruce. Thorton so like my whole thing was,
like we are terrible at putting two on the. Ball
we are not double Teaming Bruce. Thorton we can hedge and,
recover we can flat, hedge we can we can, switch
but we are not doubling because he will exploit us
on the back. End we're just too slow and and

(43:54):
he'll kill us four on three, anyway and then of,
course eight minutes to go in the, game they call
time out And i'm, like, hey what if we them?
Up what if we just trap a ball? Screen and
then it was. Over, Anyway we're sitting in the locker
room afterwards And I'm i'm you, Know i'm so. Upset like, Eight,
So Howse state we had them, Reeling they couldn't Guard,
anthony they couldn't guard their, actions and then we just

(44:15):
got our doors blown. Off and THEN i WENT i
played my bench at the, end and they, all you,
know they all tried to show they belonged and they got.
Worse and one of my, Assistants Eric, sanders comes up and, goes,
coach we got ninety five, grand this, team they got
three hundred three. Million what'd you think was gonna? Happen,
Yeah AND i was, like, yeah but you can't think that.
Way and so when THE ncaa tournament bracket came, OUT

(44:37):
i just went through AND i did pick McNeice because
mcneise had more. MONEY i forget who they, played, RIGHT
i just picked who had the most, money and they all.
Won SO i get. Again my thing is, like are
we going to do this thing where we're, like, man,
there they're a really good team in the whatever, league
but and so they belong in when we know the
other teams are.

Speaker 6 (44:57):
BETTER i, mean you're right in a and it's even, like,
okay before the difference was, yes the hime age would
still get most of the best, kids but you could
keep a kid for a couple years at minimum if
you if you, evaluated developed them.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
While The, Zerbiak Steph, Curry harold the Show. Arsenal you,
know these guys weren't freshmen At Weber. State part of it.

Speaker 6 (45:22):
Was and part of, It doug, Was let's face, it back,
then you had to sit. Out you had to sit
and that was one where a lot of kids just
did not want to sit. Out and, now like you,
said the other thing somebody told me THAT i found
interesting was a coach told me this.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
RECENT i can't remember who it. Was they, said like.

Speaker 6 (45:40):
In the old, days it was, okay you only had
a certain amount of schools that were really.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
Cheating let's face.

Speaker 6 (45:47):
It LIKE i don't know what that number, was let's
call it twenty percent for argument's sake of, okay three
fifty three. Sixty now everybody's cheating in a sense that
everybody's got. Money everybody's got something Like South carolina might
not have been cheating fifteen twenty years. Ago well now
they've got four million as opposed to like last NIGHT

(46:11):
i Saw Charleston, southern they've got this, Much, doug this.
Much so like everybody's cheating in a sense compared To Charleston,
southern they wouldn't have to go up against you, know
two hundred schools that have money before they would go
up that ten percent or whatever it.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
Was that would be.

Speaker 6 (46:29):
Cheating, yeah but they weren't going after A Charleston southern. Kid, yeah,
NO i.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Know it's it's it's fascinating to see the other thing
Of mina Of ohio is they didn't play. ANYBODY i,
mean it's not just that they didn't play. Anybody, HEY
i understand what people are. Saying you, know they didn't play,
anybody so like you, TAKE i, mean it is the easiest.
SCHEDULE i. Know i've ever had this argument With norlander

(46:58):
in the.

Speaker 6 (46:58):
Room you, know we did media mock selection And norlander
goes he's fighting for, him AND i, said, LISTEN i
want them to be in the tournament in the worst.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
WAY i love mid. MAJORS i was going to be.
In they're going to be in the. Turn.

Speaker 6 (47:11):
Yes at that, point they still have like four or
five games regular season games, left and the thought was
if they lose one and lose in the semis of
the of The mac, tournament my and then he went with.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
This he went with the dreaded.

Speaker 6 (47:25):
Line he went with a dreaded Line, doug which was
they can't get anybody to play him Bull let me
you know?

Speaker 1 (47:32):
What CAN i swear on? This, no let's let's not
bull you know?

Speaker 5 (47:37):
What?

Speaker 1 (47:37):
Okay SO i was in complete and utter bull. Crap
correct correclete not a bull. CAP i know because WE
i was trying to get out of one of my
games late that we end up winning just BECAUSE i
knew we had overdone. It scheduleized, right we'd completely. Overdone,
Okay so for people who don't, know let's just make

(47:58):
this an educational on mid Major, schedulingay you have you
hope that you have a couple of home and. Homes.
NOW i inherited four years of a deal on a
home and home With Saint, thomas WHICH i immediately asked
to get out. OF i, SAID i don't ever want
to play them. Ever and my athletic directors like they're
just you, know they're like third in the. Summit some, money.

(48:20):
Dude they got, money, dude they got. Money johnny's an awesome.
Coach they have a. System they recruit to the, system
that's what they. Do and if you Beat Saint, thomas nobody.
Cares if you lose The saint who they. Are nobody
knows who they are in The Virgin. Islands they think,
no or they think They're division three. Team last year
we lost, him like you lost Your division three, Teams like,
no they're going to win The Summit, League like what
are you? Talking met Their division three? Team like, no

(48:42):
they're not so, Anyway SO i inherited that, one, Okay
and you, KNOW i proceeded to just make bad decision
after bad decision my first year, schedule like, yeah that sounds,
good let's do. That, oh let's let's go To Santa.
Barbara that's, amazing not realizing it took us eighteen hours
to get. There and then he broke his, ankle you,
Know and then we had to plan this year and

(49:03):
they HAVE i don't, know five six times the money
that we. Have, right so you have home and homes
the gold for mid, majors okay is home and, Homes
home and, homes. Yep and then you have to make the,
decision all, Right AM i going to play a by
game or? Two and at our, level you, know it's

(49:24):
up To oakland place seven by. Games we played three this.
Year and then you have THE mte, events which you
can host by. Yourself you host by. Yourself you have
to pay the other teams to come to your, place
or you have to go to. One we went to
THE Us Virgin, islands where we were a massive underdog
in every game that we, played and we end up
winning two of.

Speaker 6 (49:44):
Them so let's look at their. Schedule first thing Is Virgin,
huh what's the money? Situation go to one of those.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Mpts so The Barse islands deal is it basically costs
you about one hundred, grand cost you about one hundred
grand for three. Games and you're, like, well how does
it cost? Entagrams, well THEY i think you get you
get the hotel. Rooms AND i don't. THINK i think
you pay for pay per. Game you pay it buy

(50:11):
in per. Game, no, no, no you don't pay for
anything for the. Tournament it's it's more yet to pay
for the flights and the flights and the. Food, yeah
play fight flights and. Food so and the food it.
Racks you're, Like you're, like how much can it? Beat
you're down there for a, week you, know three meals a,
day and we didn't know which it's not my job to,

(50:35):
know but it is my. Job we had we didn't
know that we could eat outside of the. Hotel so
the food is really good at the, hotel but we
had all hotel. Moved, yeah you got twenty five twenty
five grown, boys you, KNOW i mean you got fifteen
plus you got six. Staff you end up like twenty
two to twenty five, people three meals a day for a.
Week you do the, math it adds. UP i think

(50:57):
it ended up being about fifty all in. Cast we
probably spent one, hundred which for our level a. Lot that's.
Rough that's a. Lot it's not because you're playing three.
Games now you get the extra game THE. Mte so
but what you could we could have done was we
could have played just two by games and made two
hundred thousand. Dollars so it's actually like a three hundred

(51:19):
thousand dollars. Loss. Right my thing about my my schedule
was done because there were games in which we were
supposed to lose and we weren't getting to make money on, them,
right and then we had no, Chance, like if you're
going to play a, game you have no chance at
least get paid for. It you need, to, yes, Right
so we Buff buffalo in their league bought. Us who

(51:41):
else bought, us is Your kansas bought, us and something
else bought US A minnesota bought, us and we we parried.
Them we paired The minnesota one with The Saint thomas
one BECAUSE i couldn't get out Of Saint. Thomas and
to make matters, BETTER i was, told which is actually,
worse we Played Saint thomas at home first, year road this,
year road next, year and then home the final year

(52:04):
of the. Deal so we, said all, right if we're
going to go up and Play Saint, thomas let's Play
Saint thomas and then Play, minnesota same, trip save, money,
smart you, know and maybe we can compete in. One
we thought we could maybe compete in The Saint thomas. Game,
literally we. Know we Took minnesota to overtime After Saint
thomas beat the brains out of, Us, right so you

(52:24):
start to put together with. Dates and then we played
two non d. Ones in the, past we'd only played
one non d, one AND i, pushed and people in
our league had pushed for, two, three. FOUR a lot
of the leagues they played four non d. Ones but, like,
LOOK i don't love it. EITHER i like. IT i
don't love it, either BUT i will tell you, like,
again how is that any different than high majors playing

(52:47):
us in guarantee. Games it's. NOT i just think there's
got to be a.

Speaker 6 (52:51):
Cutoff. Though there's got to be a. Cutoff there are
a certain amount OF d one. Schools you should all
be playing each, other AND i, LIKE i don't understand.
IT i don't, know play them in, exhibitions but like
it should BE d one schools only PLAY d one
schools during the regular. Season you want to pay. Them
they want to make the little extra. Money play you
win the preseason and. Exhibitions, fine fine.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
On your when you're starting the year with a three
by your, name three hundred, BY i don't. Care play other.
Threes they want to win games, Too so play each.
Other you gotta if you play, like here's what happens
when you Play. Kansas they kicked the crap at he's
so bad your kids think they can't play basketball. Anymore
that's what. Happens they're, like, coach we couldn't go. Anywhere

(53:34):
we could they they were. There we back, cut they were.
There we read the screen, right they were. There they
were and they were, There like it was like how
many guys they have on the. Court the hell's going? On,
coach it looks like. Five But i'm not saying the
guy don't. Play and Then darren and Then, Darren Darren.
Peterson preston mriger is my senior point, guards fifth year,
seniors tremendous defensive. Player end of the first. Half i'll

(53:56):
say you the. Clip it's. Awesome he's in A stanzas
one for. Flight he goes one on. One he just
rise ever like there's nothing you can. Do he's just
a better basketball. Player, yes it's just nothing you can.
DO i get it.

Speaker 6 (54:07):
Again i'm not telling you to Play kansas every night.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Again start this.

Speaker 6 (54:11):
Season start this, season play some like teams and you
don't have to.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Play why do you have? One? No because, yeah well
you have to make money and then you got to win.
Games and if you make, money you ain't gonna win those.
GAMES i JUST i, like IF i, was IF i was,
Great campy who plays Two nani ones by four, exhibitions
then play four exhibitions before the season and play because

(54:40):
here's what. Happens here's what. Happens, okay, again camp he
gets away with it because he's a he's an institution. There,
yes he's an. Institution but like we opened up one in,
five okay At, kansas. UH i think we came home
and played at A nandy, one and then we played At.
Buffalo they shot forty one free. THROWS i mentioned they

(55:02):
shot forty one free. Throws forty one free, throws AND
i didn't EVEN i end up as a, dope like
you don't know what your team is or in the
year just, now and is my second leading score at thirdly.
SCORE i even play him that game because he wasn't
yet playing. Defense so, anyway lose To, buffalo go To Saint,
thomas lose that, game go To, minnesota lose that, game

(55:22):
or one in one in, four one and, five and
then one and, four and then we go to The
Virgin islands and we're down two To yale at the
end of the, game end up losing by six having
a foul. Late, Right so those were all good teams
better than, Us, yeah much much bigger payrolls than. Us

(55:43):
and we'd kind of figured some stuff out Against, minnesota
clearly figured some stuff out Against, yale but we're still
one in. Five and when you're trying to sell people on,
HEY i hear you pretty GOMOCH i hear. YOU i
just think there can be a line.

Speaker 6 (55:56):
Drawing that's ALL i would say is, okay then one
maximum one NON d one like throughout The division one.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
In our league and our league day do it THROUGH d.

Speaker 6 (56:05):
One make THE ncaa make a rule on, this you
can only play a certain, amount because, YEAH i, Mean
i've Seen San Diego state do it for years And i'm,
like come, on like whether it's fish Or, dutch, like.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
What are we doing? Here what the hell are we?
Doing you're you're a great. Program once they get to that,
LEVEL i don't THINK i don't think you need to do.
IT i think it's it's really two fifty and. Below
that's that's kind of where you are because you got
you got to get a couple just to get some
confidence going and to work on some. Things we did
this and last, year of, course we lost To Michigan,
tech which is one of the Best division twos in the,

(56:38):
country and we had a series of things go. Wrong
otherwise we win the game fifteen points or, whatever and
that was like their Super bowl because you got their
best player as A Green bay, kid and you know,
what you lose that game and literally you think the
world's coming to an, end, Right like nobody cared that
my best player broke his ankle the game, before that
my point guard got a concussion in the, game or

(56:59):
THAT i had another go skitzo, whatever like nobody.

Speaker 6 (57:01):
Cares they scheduling last, Year doug was easy for. YOU
i remember when you got the. Job but everybody's LIKE
i tweeted. THIS i THINK i tweeted, this and it was.
Real i've never had more coaches reach out to me, ever,
ever ever for somebody's phone. Number they were, like can
you give Me gottle his phone? Ever if we want
to schedule him so, Bad, sure one fifteen and we'll

(57:24):
play it. Now and now nobody wants to play right.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Now it's.

Speaker 6 (57:27):
Now it is absolutely. Different BUT i think, again, ultimately to,
me IF i Was Travis steele and it worked for, him,
listen the bottom line is kind of like it worked
for Tj atzolberger At Iowa state where he's scheduling these
three hundreds and beating the absolutely piss out of. Them
it worked For Travis steel because if he had Scheduled

(57:48):
Saint mary's or even tooisand or some of these schools and,
lost we wouldn't be talking about him as an at large.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Nobody, listen, listen all these teams you're gonna do. It
they're going to try to do. It. Now you want
to have the, money they don't have the. Money it
takes so much money to agreed agreed for people to, understand,
okay that they, played they had AN. MT i believe
they had their OWN. Mt, Right so that probably costs,
YOU i don't, know one hundred and fifty thousand, dollars,
right make it afford, it, okay, Right so if you,
have if you if you, came if you bought your

(58:15):
team to come, back and you think they're they're they're
at one, five, right and now you you played no guarantee, games,
right BECAUSE i don't THINK i don't Think Airfoss force bought,
them do? You Air force is the only one that probably.
Not probably don't think. SO i don't think so we.
SHOULD i mean, again every everybody who's, like what WE
i should have scheduled Air force like damn, It.

Speaker 6 (58:35):
Yeah, no those are the ones you look at and
everybody's trying to get them out.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
Everything yeah, No so BUT i would say they're scheduled
like they, played they played some other teams here that
looks like they. Bought Like i'm guessing they spent probably
about three hundred thousand dollars on their.

Speaker 6 (58:50):
Schedule and that's the. Difference that's WHAT i tried to
Tell norlander is, like that is the. Difference, now here's
the biggest.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Difference here's what Nord lander you need to lay lay
in The Nordlander, okay difference In i'll just Take Mile, mater,
who'struggling not a tournament team In Oklahoma, State, okay who
they had a pathetic non conference schedule as. Well, now
they did play At Grand, canyon they won that. Game
they PLAYED a AND m who's become a very good
team at, HOME i, think and they Beat South florida

(59:16):
at home as. Well so those are three actually pretty good.
Wins BUT i would say they probably spent seven hundred
thousand dollars on their. SCHEDULE i think they have seven by.
Games that's a healthy. Amount, right they played a terrible
Skill the difference is and Their big twelve schedule they
kind of lucked into. It they don't go To, kansas
they don't go To. Houston, right there's somebody else's. Good

(59:37):
i'm not sure if they. GO i don't think they
go To Iowa state, either, Right so three absolute losses
as kickings they. Avoided but the fact is that you
know the big twelves, coming, Right, like you know the
big twelves. Coming is it an unfair advantaged shore you're
in THE mac they don't go To akron by the,
way this year that everybody Knew akron was going to be. Good,
yes so you know The max, Coming like you got

(59:59):
a put a scalp or two on your, schedule just
two of, them and they don't have them, Agreed so
he gained the. System he did an amazing. Job like
as a head, COACH i would Dream i'm not in
any way being critical of the schedule that they. HAVE
i WISH i had that right IF i had all
teams at my, level non conference, Slate oh my, god

(01:00:23):
that's all you could ever ask. For but the caveat
is you can't bitch and moan if you don't get
in THE ncaa tournament or you don't get the seed
that you. Want and he has know what happened when you.
Did Jean, TRAVIS i haven't seen him out there because
because Because travis knows the. Deal that's. Right, Yeah and
he's got a really good. Team that doesn't. Matter they're

(01:00:43):
gonna make the two exactly. Right, now does He you
SAID i think he married in some. Money he's got
a great. Job, YES i think he leaves for the right.
One he's not going to.

Speaker 6 (01:00:58):
Country he's not going In West, Coast he's not going down.
South he knows where his bread is. Buttered that is
clearly in The. Midwest he is. NOT i would be
beyond What midwest Jobs. Dayton dayton would be the one
THAT i think If Anthony grant, retires which anybody who
says they know What Anthony grant is going to, DO.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
I look at him AND i AND i, say you're a.
Liar you're a.

Speaker 6 (01:01:22):
Liar the only people that know What Anthony grant's going
to do to me Is Anthony grant and his, family
and is.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Immediate the more will. More Maybe, billy Maybe billy, Knows Maybe.
Billy billy's Pretty. Bill by the, Way billy's busy trying
to tank right.

Speaker 6 (01:01:37):
Now all, Right, so BUT i think to, Me dayton
is the one that fits him the.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Most right Like Ohio, state.

Speaker 6 (01:01:45):
If it, opened if he could get, IT i still
think that job goes to T J otselberger if if
he wants, it if he wants, it and it. Opens
so it's two things. Here Jake deebler is fighting to get.
In it's going to go right down to the. WIRE
i think If jake gets in the, tournament he's. Fine,
obviously if he's, Not Ross biork has a decision to
make after two, years it's he the right guy or.

(01:02:07):
Not and then immediately you're calling to try to GET
Tj alzenburger To.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Columbus why WHY? Tj just because he's? AWESOME i, mean, yeah,
OKAY i didn't know if there was a tie there That,
no there's no.

Speaker 6 (01:02:20):
TIE i just think that's a job that fits. Him
like he doesn't want a basketball you, know, LISTEN i
in full. Disclosure you, know you Know talia just graduated From.
Indiana she was there last. YEAR i called him last.
Year i'm, like come, on we got to get you To.
Indiana i've had three brutal years With Mike, Woodson LIKE
i need one good year here to finish. Off you,
know tell you his, uh you, know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
A deal In.

Speaker 6 (01:02:43):
Indiana but he doesn't want the Fish. Bowl he wants no.
Point he Loves Iowa state loves it and Loves.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Jamie why would he leave to go To Ohio state
because him may not?

Speaker 6 (01:02:54):
Resources, YEAH i THINK i think that's one of the
few jobs that would appeal to him, because, yes the.
RESOURCES i also wonder how much Longer Jamie pollock is
going to do this That iowa. State do you know
how much that means to?

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
It do you? THINK i? MEAN i, THINK. TJ i
think it's in my. State would be would be a, landing,
Agreed but he's not. One when when's that?

Speaker 6 (01:03:18):
Opening, well not this, year in a couple of years, maybe,
YES i.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
Mean you're Talking wisconsin and you're Talking marquet or either either.
One either. ONE i don't think either either. Opening they're
not opening this. YEAR i don't think they're opening next.
Year that's What i'm.

Speaker 6 (01:03:35):
Saying So Ohier, state if it popped this, year it's
like the only. One and there aren't a lot of movable.
Coaches that's what people don't. Understand there. Are there are
not a lot of movable head. COACHES i HAVE i
have one more that would that would fit. Fit T. J, okay.

Speaker 5 (01:03:52):
Go.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Ahead how long is that going to do? It? YEAH
i mean till a doctor tells him he can't. That
that's WHAT i always say with this, though right, listen you,
KNOW i gotta tell You mark is doing an awesome
job In, detroit and they're trying to mirror the, style,
right playing with two, bigs playing, fast super physical Like
i'm Sure Mark montgomery's trying to put himself as that. Guy,

(01:04:14):
yeah and it wouldn't. Be but if there's a guy
who plays the type of physical Defense midwest, guy, OH
tj would be great. There he'd be great.

Speaker 6 (01:04:22):
There but, yes but, AGAIN i THINK tj is so
smart AND i don't know IF i ever saw this
coming twenty five years ago WHEN i first MET.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
TJ i think he's matured a.

Speaker 6 (01:04:32):
LOT i think his understanding, is why the hell WOULD
i want to Follow tom is Though i'm not doing,
That no, chance no chance. Whatsoever i'll follow the guys
At Ohio.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
State, yeah but you, know but, yeah but they really.
CARE i, KNOW i get. It you can't leave a place. Like,
no they always CARED i Was, Date, yeah but not
like they always CARED i Was. Tate well you got
to win, enough but, yes, yes, No i'm telling you
they always Cared Iowa state and not maybe to the

(01:05:04):
level that they do, now but they've always that's a
place where they always give a.

Speaker 6 (01:05:07):
Damn it just Is and can can you AND i
have a? Compliment, hey can we have a. CONVERSATION i
don't want to take this.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
In a totally different direct ofver you.

Speaker 6 (01:05:15):
Want, NO i want to BECAUSE i want your opinion on,
this BECAUSE i have SOME i have more info than
most On Darren peterson and you played them AND i
still don't HAVE i can't say.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
EVERYTHING i was told by a parent of a high level, recruit,
okay that the that they they talk or, whatever and
that the cramping thing is.

Speaker 6 (01:05:39):
Real, well here's WHAT i was told. THAT i said
this the other. NIGHT i finally said it the other.
Night there was an episode in the preseason with a
cramping that it was really, bad really, bad like full body. Cramps,
Okay AND i think that has freaked them. OUT i
think that has freaked them out to where it's now,

(01:05:59):
mentally he can't get through.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
It he can't handle it right well, though he it's so.
Again let me let me. Fact let me put two
things together, here, okay, okay first thing IS i have a,
Player my, Player Preston, ringer we Beat Robert morris at.
Home he was. Cramping he had the ball in his
hands and all of a sudden he fell down and
they laid the ball in. Right he had two, yes
come he's. Cramping so and he's, cramped and we. Did

(01:06:24):
we've done, everything like he's constantly drinking pickle. Juice he
goes to GET ivs that doesn't seem to. Work the
packers gave him some medication or whatever because they thought
it was neuromuscular or. Whatever like literally trying everything and during,
timeouts Like i'm constantly monitoring. It during, timeouts it's, like,
Okay i'm. GOOD i don't know if he like feels

(01:06:45):
it and he knows it feels it might be coming.
On that's when, everybody we all start to freak. Out
SO i completely understand the freaking out. Thing and then
this happens with guys with ankle. Injuries there were guys
that go down with an ankle injury and it's not that,
bad but they freak out because either one low paying
thresholder too they've hurt their ankle and then less not,

(01:07:06):
again and then they get, Like i'm actually, okay and
So I'm i'm and a lot.

Speaker 6 (01:07:12):
Of them can battle through. IT a lot of them
can battle through, it. Right So i'm here's WHAT i was.
Told like The oklahoma stake came, right he was awesome
in the first. Half he doesn't play, Right so when
he goes to take himself, out it's because he felt
like he found what it felt one coming on and
and that's why he took himself out of the. Game

(01:07:32):
his dad originally probably told them to do this, right
like protect, yourself protect.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
You NOW i think it's become. HIM i think it's become,
well we've all but this is part of the issue
with THE. Nba but why not tell here's my, Take,
doug here's my one. Thing And i've tried with the,
Dad i've tried with their Agent, motts AND i know
the kid AND i was supposed to go down there
two weeks. AGO i saw, THEM i the, agent Like

(01:07:59):
i've months FOR i. KNOW i know it's, crazy, right
thirty five years, whatever, anyway go. Ahead SO i was supposed.
TO i was going down to Watch kansas. PLAY i always.
Stay two weeks, ago two weeks ago From.

Speaker 6 (01:08:10):
Saturday AND i was all set to sit down with
the kid before Through kansas set up.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
AGAIN i know the kid Like.

Speaker 6 (01:08:17):
I'm probably the only one who actually the kid feels
comfortable talking to you because if a, YOU i talked to,
him we've done interviews or. Whatever, well it was polled last,
minute and my take on this is not, listen you
don't need to talk to. Me AND i talked to
the kid off the record the night before at the
hotel and he was excited to do.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
It we were going to do it the next. Week
we had postponed.

Speaker 6 (01:08:37):
It at that point THE dat had pulled, it said
it was too, Quick SO i, said all, right let's
do it next, week which was last. Week never, happened never.
Materials my take, is sit down with, anybody. Somebody let
this kid be a human that people, see that people hear.
From unless you are really trying to hide, something which

(01:08:57):
maybe they're trying to hide this what went. On why
THE nba teams are all going to find out about
it at some.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
Point, Yeah i'm with, you was sunlight is the greatest.
Disinfectant that's The, YEAH i gave you a question from
A Supreme court justice Scot you can quote me if you,
want but sunlight is the Greatest i'm not quoting. You
i'm Gonna i'm going to find out who said it
and quote. Them, okay biggest job that will come open this,
YEAR i think it'll end up being LIKE i think

(01:09:27):
it'll end up being a surprise. One, yeah of, Course
that's WHY i think it could be a surprise to,
you because you know these things are coming that.

Speaker 6 (01:09:34):
It could be like what if what if Either Nate
oates Or Todd golden go to Another Final? Four did they?
POP i, MEAN i guess the biggest job that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
Will where they Get where's they where are they going to?
Go they're already making a crazy amount of. Money, yeah
you don't turn down AN nba. Job you think AN
nba team is going to hire an Eight oats Or Todd?

Speaker 6 (01:09:52):
GOLDEN i, mean, yeah if They If Todd golden goes
back to, BACK i mean the last guy that went
back to, back that was the he had an, opportunity
he took it and then he renegged on. It but
the biggest, One i'll go with, This the biggest one
from a standpoint that could really impact college basketball Is

(01:10:13):
oregon by, far Because oregon if they want, to if
they want to in this day and age With Phil.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
Knight how old is he? Now IF i eighty seventy eighty,
eight something like.

Speaker 6 (01:10:22):
That if if you're the next coach At, oregon, You,
doug if you If oregon hires you and you're interviewing At,
oregon wouldn't you, like, Hey, phil here's the deal, Man,
like you're not getting any younger at this.

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
Point i'm gonna bring you a national. Title give me
twenty million dollars a Scot, yeah, yeah. Exactly let's go
give me one, shot give me one shot With. MARTHA
i guess here's the, question, though like who if you're
not going to do it For.

Speaker 6 (01:10:49):
DANA i don't Think dana wanted. IT i don't Think
dana wanted. THAT i don't not all. IN i don't
think he wanted all.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
IN i. DON'T i.

Speaker 6 (01:10:57):
Don't you, know these old, guys they don't want. It
they're forced to do it at the end when it's
LIKE i have no other.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
Choice, Wow dana has done it differently for a long. Time,
anyway when he had, stubs like those guys recruit the
team he just. Coached you guys know WHAT i, Want
just go get. Them i'll coach, him, Right and SO
i don't THINK i don't. KNOW i Think Dane altman's
is good a basketball coach as we have in the. Sport,
yeah and so it's mean and and Shel staid's not

(01:11:28):
being there right that that's. That, yeah they've been injured for.
Years they've been. Injured it feels like every. Year, yes
so you, know might hear you that's a that's a
bigger job for a year two Then syracuse Is syracuse coming?
Open like what are they doing with? You, yeah but
it's not a great. Job it's not a great. Job
why isn't a great.

Speaker 6 (01:11:47):
Job, well the resources aren't. There they're, behind they're. Behind
the fan base is, there but like you, know it's
all about it a better resource than. Anybody they can
put forty thousand people in the building any. Night they
can make that. Money uh didn't they haven't done.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
It they cut up.

Speaker 6 (01:12:02):
Ahon let it get to this point where like even
early in il, well the only person that was getting
paid really Was buddy, Behind like they were, behind they're.
Behind and Wild, HACK i MEAN i worked for. Him
it's AT, Espn like it probably wasn't the right guy
for that. Job, Yeah i'm not buying that he. Was
he retired.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
Right, no, Agree i'm not buying. That his right hand
guy retired, either same. Time they both just. Retired oh my,
god this is so. Crazy it just happens to happen
when the basketball program is a.

Speaker 6 (01:12:33):
Mess you, Know memphis could. OPEN i Think penny gets one.
MORE i mean he had a great regular season a year.
Ago It's penny hardaway like another year of this and,
YEAH i think they, Would they would go TO i
think it's you know that what the deal?

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
Is, so so what does shirts want BECAUSE i think
he wants to see what if anything bigger?

Speaker 6 (01:12:55):
Opens then, again you're looking at the, list isn't exactly
who's who?

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
Here? Right you might probably going to Have i'll read
him off.

Speaker 6 (01:13:03):
HERE i Mean Arizona state not, Great Boston college, Awful.
Providence they got to pay him nine. Million we'll see
if they do It syracuse.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
To get rid Of. KIM i just. Don't you don't
think they. Will, no it's three, years a lot of.
Money it's a lot of. MONEY i don't. Think so
fan base can't stand, him but, OKAY i can't stand
anybody who doesn't. WIN i just just so are. Aware
so there's there's never been a popular losing. Coach then
when they get fired like he was a great, GUY
a great, Guy, okay keep. Going i'm.

Speaker 6 (01:13:33):
Sorry Georgia tech probably, GONE lsu could go either. Way
not a great, job okay. JOB i don't see what
way going back? There but who. Knows pittsburgh fifteen, million
bile fifteen that's a lot they're trying to you, know
see IF i.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
Agree i've been Told jeff's is not going. Anywhere, yeah
they already have plans that like they've, met have, plans
have the money for next. Year but, anyway go, Ahead
Wes miller, Gone cincinnati. Gone you know they're winning.

Speaker 6 (01:13:58):
NOW i don't think it, matters nothink it matters too,
little too. Late oklahoma could go either. Way i'd say probably,
gone but could go.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
Direct eflec, director although he's not really a sports guy
so youngird, ONE i could see him being.

Speaker 6 (01:14:15):
Gone and then the The iffi's Are, Memphis Ohio state
and the two good. ONES i mean those are those
are probably the two most attractive jobs that we mentioned
so far in a.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
WAY i Mean memphis Your. FedEx all you got.

Speaker 6 (01:14:28):
To do is call with the right people At FedEx
every day and they're on board with. You he's got
to play the game a little, bit And Ohio state's
got the shot In. Steins they got. Money. Now football
obviously reigned, supreme we know, that but there's enough left
over for basketball to have. ENOUGH i, Mean deebler got
paid last. Year they were ahead of the game for
a lot of. Teams when he took, over they weren't

(01:14:48):
good shape. Financially so those are the. Ones then you
know the ones that are probably okay Now forbes is
okay awake unless something crazy happens and they keep losing
them really really bad. Teams rutgers, Okay South carolina could
go either. Way Mike, Young Virginia tech, Okay Mike, rhodes
big big buyout Of Penn.

Speaker 1 (01:15:08):
State coolly get another, year huge huge.

Speaker 6 (01:15:11):
Buyout Michael shrewsbury trending in the wrong direction right, now
but probably poor.

Speaker 1 (01:15:18):
Guys best player got. Hurt then he pops his achilles
tendon in the. Game, unbelievable. Unbelievable it's the opposite of
the luck of The, irish by the, way and then
he got a fifty piece at home By duke on
the same the best.

Speaker 6 (01:15:29):
Job that could, open all, right let me give you
a let me. Revise the best job that will could,
open is It Rick barnes?

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
Retires? Yeah so what where IS i? MEAN i just Know.
RICK i can't See rick doing anything. Else he's done
like a huge family is huge For Rick barnes though,
HUGE i know it, is but he's kind of been
doing this a long time and he kind of. Has
he seems to. Have he seems to have made it

(01:15:56):
so that he has a great life like he. Does
but he's seventy. One like you say that as if
like they're going to go to.

Speaker 6 (01:16:01):
Eighty like at some point it's going to be the
year That Rick barnes says like enough is?

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
Enough, okay so is this the? Year as he told people, that,
OH i don't know anybody in the.

Speaker 6 (01:16:11):
SEVENTIES i know my, dad you, know like my dad's,
older like he's in his eighties. Now but like even
when when you're in your, SAID i don't want to
work at seventy one full time.

Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
Again but but, now, look everybody's. Different my dad died
at seventy. Three but any COACHED aau AND i was,
like why you have? Cancer like YOU i didn't want
to see you're. Dying but he was clearly. Dying but
he didn't want to be dead before he was, dead,
Right he didn't want to be in His he didn't
want to be in his, boxers you, know at eleven
and eleven in the, morning you, know shuffling around drinking,

(01:16:43):
coffee talking about you, know talking About President, trump, like, yeah,
right you don't want to do. That he wanted To
being around kids keeps you, young, Right it just. Does
it energizes. You they have, hope they have the whole
lives in front of. You, so AND i do think
he's that kind of. Guy he's never struck me as
one of those curmudgeons LIKE i gotta go do this crap, again, Right,

(01:17:04):
so but that would be a big. One would be
would be a very very very very big. One who wins?
It who's Your you had to you had to Guess, Michigan. Michigan,
Yeah i'm gonna Go. Michigan they just have too many
ways of beating, you too many and they're exceptionally well, Coached,
yes exceptionally well. Coached all, Right, JEFF i appreciate. Joys that's.

(01:17:26):
It It's Jeff Goodman College Basketball. Insider make sure you
download and listen to the field of sixty. Eight, okay
let's talk SOME nfl. Football it Is Combine, week which
means anybody who's anybody in The Nation Football league or
has worked in The Nation Football league or covers the
Nash Football league is In, Indianapolis. Indiana they're probably getting

(01:17:50):
some very very spicy shrimp cocktail late at night at
some point At Saint elmo's and maybe some lunch At.
Shapiro's i'm not. Sure Mark dominic is our friend and our,
guest and he joins, us of, course former gentlemennager of
The Tampay. Buccaneers he spent his entire professional life in
The National Football. League, okay help us out because we're

(01:18:10):
just fans and we sit here and you, know kid
From Ohio state as a forty three and a half
vertical and everybody starts to freak. Out but, you, okay
are they work?

Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
Out?

Speaker 1 (01:18:20):
Guys are the actual football? Players how much do the
athletic the, lifting the, strength the, speed the, agility how
much does that matter in the entire kind of spectrum
of what you're putting together for a draft.

Speaker 5 (01:18:34):
Prospect, Yeah, doug great to be on with, you and
welcome From, indy right it's like my thirty thirty first
year Of indianapolis. Combines so it's kind of it's been
crazy to be here and and kind of see how
things have, changed but nothing ever. Changes when you see
a guy Like sunny styles and what he did in
terms of just the, athleticism and he's already a good football,

(01:18:56):
player like a really good football, player like he's obviously
a top ten pick or a top first round. Pick
but it just kind of solidifies everything you're hoping you.
See and when a guy blows up the combine like,
THAT i, mean he was the buzz of last, night
like everyone around The National Football league was talking about
like what he, did and that to, me that wasn't
some workout, warriors just like, well he's just a workout.

(01:19:18):
Warrior that was a guy that's already a good player
that just proves Like i'm an elite athlete, too and
so it just helps that much.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
More.

Speaker 5 (01:19:24):
SO i think these things all are great for these
players to be able to like put their resume on.
Tape the thing that we looked at from FORMER gm
when we watch a guy work out is if a
guy ran really fast or a guy runs really, slow
we would go back to the tape and say what's going,
On like did that translate to him on the field
the way that he just worked? Out and that's the
thing that we really try to use these numbers for

(01:19:46):
is like DID i feel that a type of explosion
AND i feel the type of, burst type of speed
and if, not because, again as you, know some guys
don't carry their pads the same. Way some guys carry
pads and they've become. HEAVY a guy like old school
and On bolden like ran a bad forty when he
came out of The National Football league at his pro
dain and at the, combine but when he got to THE,

(01:20:07):
nfl he was uber fast because he never lost any
speed because in his. Pad so we go back to
this tape and make sure we measure what we saw.

Speaker 1 (01:20:15):
Yesterday, yeah it becomes kind of confirmation, bias, Right, yes
if the guy really covers the, field you're, like, well,
okay the He's and there are some guys that are.
Athletes it doesn't translate in. Football just doesn't same thing in,
Basketball like you can be a great athlete and like
whatever reason not a basketball athlete doesn't always transfer on the.
Court the interviews are a big part of a lot

(01:20:35):
of the. Discussion how valuable are they outside of the quarterback.

Speaker 5 (01:20:39):
POSITION i think they're fredably. Valuable and here's what we, do,
right especially the formal. Interviews formal interviews happen At Lucas Oil.
Stadium all thirty two clubs get a luxury box and
they bring guys in. Randomly, now, well the players when
they arrive, here they'll get their list of, Like, okay
how many formal interviews DO i have and.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
What time are?

Speaker 5 (01:20:57):
They the clubs are the combine make sure and make
make it to each individual.

Speaker 1 (01:21:01):
Interview but those are.

Speaker 5 (01:21:02):
Timed those are twenty minute individual interviews that are fully.
Timed here's what's unique about. Them everyone handles them. Differently
so you could be in front Of Mike, rabel, right,
who's you, know wildly sarcastic but heavily intimidating and not
to understand how he handles. It or you might be
in front of somebody that's like completely like loose And,
goose Or Andy reid who's like just trying to hug

(01:21:24):
you as a.

Speaker 1 (01:21:25):
Grandfather.

Speaker 3 (01:21:25):
Right it's so.

Speaker 5 (01:21:26):
Different but the thing that we try to do with
those formal interviews are three things we're looking. For we
watch your tape and it's all bad, plays, dog that's
all we. Watch we don't ever watch you like great
catch on that. Touchdown now it's like why'd you drop this?
Ball what's happened on this? Route but we want to
see your, accountability, Right we want to see your, coachability,
right those two, things and we want to see how
you handle, like you, know, criticism, right that's the. Thing

(01:21:49):
those are the three things we look. At so when
we watch you in. THERE i was talking to an
agent last night and he was talking About John. Alton
John all was stuck in His they made him getting
his stance and sit there for twenty minutes and is
like three point stands and answer.

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
Questions like it's it's so. Great so everybody's so.

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
Different but those formal interviews help just.

Speaker 5 (01:22:06):
Kind of like really get to know the young man
a little bit, more but more it's his football. Knowledge
those are what those are. For we have informal interviews
all through the combine where the coaches scouts can sit
with them for twenty thirty minutes and just kind of
get to know them as a young. Man but the
formals are like how do you know football and.

Speaker 1 (01:22:21):
Why, yeah it's THE iq of your sport is so
big in any, sport, right just the understanding kind of
the awareness of what's going on and why why things
Are like why would we have called? This why why
would we do? THIS i do wonder though about like defensive,
alignment rush ends or, whatever like does it really like

(01:22:42):
if your job is to go kill the, quarterback does
it really really? Matter if you can you can break
down other things within a football.

Speaker 5 (01:22:48):
Game and we like to know that they know what's
going on around, them like do you understand the call
and what's the overall concept of the? Call to, me
that was important because you understand the coverage behind you,
Somewhat so it's going to give you a better sy
of like what kind of urgency you need to. Have,
yes every defensive line wants to get there as fast as,
possible but if you understand that more than likely the
ball is going to come out to the left or

(01:23:09):
to the, right or underneath to the running back or
the tight. End because of the way we've drawn up the,
coverage it kind of gives you a sense of where
the quarterback might go or where how the quarterback might
handle that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:18):
Play so that's the critical.

Speaker 5 (01:23:20):
Part you, know you talk about the forty, Time like
for me on defensive, linemen especially defensive, tackles defensive. Ends
OBVIOUSLY i didn't worry as much about the forty. TIME
i worried, about, like you, know how far did they
get up field when they run their forty on their
first three steps where they had five, yards six yards
or seven? Yards like that was a big deal to

(01:23:40):
me because obviously you could see how fast you can
get up the. Field that's more important to me than
actually like did they run at four to seven?

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
Four, Okay so we've talked about this year not being
a great quarterback, draft, right and what we've seen over
the past couple of years is these, quarterbacks like The
Super bowl Champion Sam, donald get new, life get another,
opportunity and take advantage of. It not all have been
better in their second or third place as they were
in their first, place but it definitely has become kind

(01:24:09):
of a, thing right, like if we can't get the
rookie that we want and we don't already have a franchise,
guy what if we had some guys that's got a
little aware on the tires and the ceiling may be
lower than initially, thought but the floor is higher because
they've played in THE nfl and oftentimes they've played in
many of the systems that they're being brought aboard. To

(01:24:30):
let's start With Malik. Willis here's a kid who got
a chance to start with The Tennessee, titans and a
couple of years in they moved. On he's with The.
Packers he plays, three he plays a couple of games
and plays really really. Well what's his value on the
market from your, Perspective.

Speaker 5 (01:24:47):
YEAH i don't think it's what people. THINK i feel
like it's being inflated right. Now And i'm not trying
to be hard On Malik. WILLIS i just don't think
that people feel like that's the sixteen seventeen gaming answer
is something goes. WRONG i think That Millie quills has a,
market BUT i don't think it's going to be anywhere
near what we Saw Gino smith get or something like
that where somebody's, LIKE i think this is the guy
Or Sam. DONALD i just don't believe. THAT i think

(01:25:09):
That Millie quills is like probably a one or two
year deal where you're, LIKE i think, so But i'm not.
Sure AND i think it's more of that eight to
ten million dollar. Range we'll see What milie. GETS i
may be way off on, this BUT i just feel
like it's hard the same.

Speaker 1 (01:25:23):
Players you, know somebody's gonna overpay for. Him somebody's gonna
overpay for, this, RIGHT i, agree because because, again if
we if we if we Take Sam, donald and he
wasn't the third pick of the, draft so he wasn't
THE mvp of The Rose, bowl, Right so he Wasn't Sam.
Donald AND i do think that people, go, Oh Sam
donald Or Baker, mayfield but we forget That Sam Donald

(01:25:44):
Baker mayfield both went To carolina, first. Right Then donald
went To San francisco as a, backup and then he
ended up In, seattle or, said then he went To,
minnesota and only because of injury did he get the
opportunity Of. Minnesota and then He so you're talking about three,
stops and it was only the third stop where he
kind of figured it, out if you, Will and he

(01:26:05):
probably figured out in the second, spot and it was
the same offense in the third. Spot and that's how
it all. Worked Baker mayfield Was. Panthers people forget The.
RAMS i was at That Rams, monday night football game was, Amazing,
right he's running two. Minutes he had n't been to
practice before they win the. Game but he was the
number one overall, pick and he had been a he

(01:26:25):
had had some moments Whereas Malik willis, WAS i think what? Late? First?

Speaker 4 (01:26:30):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:26:30):
Second third? Round oh he's? Third my? Bad he. Was
he was a third round pick and you, know so
he had some spot. Minutes AND i, Again i'm with,
you BUT i also think that there's the juxtaposition of
how many first round traffic quarterbacks on your board were
there actually be this?

Speaker 5 (01:26:51):
Year oh there's. One it's Only Fernando. Mendoza Tye sipson's
the next quarterback that should come off the. Board BUT
i do not feel like she'll go in the first
he could because you, know as you know and we,
know that's a position that's desperately. NEEDED i think your, point,
though like On Malik, willis was the league evaluated them
coming out of college and they've said third. Round the
league saw, that you, know you had to kind of

(01:27:13):
manipulate the game for him a little bit to make
sure you had. Success i'm proud of, him like he's
a good. Kid i've met with, him, before and he
took advantage of what he was, given but it doesn't
make him turn into a guy That's i'm going to
give twenty five to thirty million dollars. TO i just
don't see it that way with. Him BUT i Think
mendoza is the only. Quarterback he's going number one. Overall
they can spin it however they. Want people can say

(01:27:34):
The raiders are, like, oh, well they're just find the
best quarterback or whatever they think of. Him there's no choice, Here,
like The raiders are Taking mendoza and they're not going
to trade out of that. Pick they need to have,
him they want to have. Him and so it's going
to be you, know it's it's that pick's. Done it's
the rest of the draft that's going to be the
more interesting. Part when we all get there In, April.

Speaker 1 (01:27:55):
Yeah it will be, Okay so who are the other
who would you go and get as one of those
veterans that's hanging around that can either be a placeholder
and you can build a roster around around the placeholder
while then in future years drafting your future franchise, quarterback

(01:28:17):
or do you think you could actually build with and
maybe at a lower salary than the superstar.

Speaker 5 (01:28:23):
Quarterbacks, YEAH i, Mean i'm going to do the unpopular
name Of Kirk, cousins but that's who i'd. GRAB i
would build Around. KIRK i just think that you can
get a season or two out of him while you
kind of try to continue to find the quarterback of the.
FUTURE i think that's the right.

Speaker 1 (01:28:37):
Move you.

Speaker 5 (01:28:39):
Know obviously The falcons and the way they handled everything
was kind of awkward last, year and it came back
to haunt not only THE gm but the head. COACH
i think That Kirk cousins is the guy, that, LIKE
i feel LIKE i could still be relevant and possibly
depend on what division he's. In when a division With
Kirk cousins for sure go to the, PLAYOFFS i think you.
Can BUT i don't think it's you, KNOW i don't

(01:28:59):
think it's a long term. FIX i think is a
two year. Fix you, know a lot of people ask
About Kyler. MURRAY i just don't think there'll be a
market For Kyler. MURRAY i really just. DON'T i don't
think that it Means gon be like.

Speaker 1 (01:29:09):
That's the guy of the. LEAGUE i, mean it's going
to be, Close.

Speaker 5 (01:29:14):
DOUG i think that somebody's going to grab or you,
know possibly grab.

Speaker 1 (01:29:17):
Him but what what is? It he doesn't love? Football,
YEAH i think everybody.

Speaker 5 (01:29:24):
Haven't they all told us Like Kyler murray he's obviously,
undersized which is, whatever but it's. Real but number, two
it's The Arizona cardinals told you when they wrote that original,
contract where, like well you got to be here at the,
facility and then they had to take it out because
it's so. Embarrassing and then that coach gets fired and
another coach comes, in another gym comes. In they're, like
we're going to bench. Him we don't want him on

(01:29:44):
the field. Whatsoever so they've told you twice now at,
least that this this isn't the right. Fit so it's
hard for me to sit there and, go, boy you,
know If i'm the whatever, team Like i'm going to
go Get Kyler murray and we're gonna be. Fine like
how do you not look at the history and say
this might be a really poor. Decision so that's the
NAME i think will be the most. Interesting DO i think,

(01:30:05):
again DO i think he's out of? League probably. Not
DO i think he's making anywhere near That Malik willis
might make more, money but it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:30:13):
Going to be much to A tagama. Law SO i
like to of, Better, LIKE i just think the problem
With tua is the.

Speaker 5 (01:30:20):
Fact THAT i know AND i think we talked about,
this like how do you structure that deal because of
the concussion, history and that's never really going to go
away in my, Opinion and SO i Think tua has
a much better chance of being a starter in twenty
twenty six THAN i Think Kyler murray.

Speaker 1 (01:30:35):
Does it just is fasting on how nothing gets you
fired quicker than when the quarterback, stinks gets, hurt contracts,
overblown you don't handle it, well like right like it's
the gift and the. CURSE a great quarterback keeps you
gainfully employed for as long as you'd, like and a

(01:30:56):
quarterback that's not as good just gets you, fired get,
you get, you gets you absolutely. Fired, okay UH a couple.
Others do you think our people in THE nfl do
they think the players are any different now as prospects

(01:31:17):
because they're coming in well, compensated Right like you're no
longer having let me AND i know you understand the,
question but let me give you kind of the. Analogy
it's like every former athlete THAT i know we all
have the same conversation about our own. Kids it's, like
these kids have better, training have better, stuff play better

(01:31:41):
in better gyms with better trainers than we ever did.
Before but what they don't all have is the hunger
and desire to make it because we just wanted to make.
It some of us made it because we just wanted
to make it to prove. Ourselves some people made it
because they felt like that was their only way out
of a bad family or financial. Situation but there's a

(01:32:01):
hunger and a desire to make, it at least in
maybe a slightly older. Generation it doesn't mean that hunger
and desire to make it isn't there for the new,
athlete but they have been taken care of in high
school and in. College now some of them are coming
in as multi millionaires into THE. Nfl is DO nfl

(01:32:21):
people believe there's a noticeable difference in the players coming
to the? Combine so not, yet?

Speaker 5 (01:32:29):
RIGHT i, think, like you, KNOW i work with young
kids as they get ready to go to The Senior
bowl Or East West shrine or come here to The
combine and just kind of give them like the understanding
of what to expect and how to, handle like some
tough questions this, year as you were very, aware anil
changed dramatically from just a year. Ago like a high
state kid last year might have made fifty seventy five

(01:32:50):
thousand Or alabama and this year he's making four hundred
and five hundred thousand. Dollars it's. INCREDIBLE i think we're
going to see this more once we get one or
two more years In doug and say that like racked
up two or three. Years WHAT i think is fascinating
That i'm wanting to see how this plays.

Speaker 1 (01:33:06):
Out is.

Speaker 5 (01:33:07):
Loyalty right when we drafted guys In, tampa or you
got drafted as A Pittsburgh steeler or A Green Bay,
packer you felt as a, player you felt, like oh my,
GOSH i want to prove this organization so right right
that they've made the right, choice the right. Guy and
we would play on that as A. GM i would
play on that before an, extension being, like you want
to stay, here, RIGHT i mean we drafted. YOU i

(01:33:29):
play that to the, agent play that to the young,
man all that kind of stuff to kind of, say you,
know why don't you end your career? Here now that
these kids are like entering the portal like the allegiance
to the team at drafts and may not be the,
same and we might actually see more kids actually push
the envelope and actually go to free agency because that's
what they thought they were supposed to do in college.
Too SO i think that's going to be more, interesting

(01:33:50):
like do we see the guys that ex sign or
maybe it's going to be more pressure like This doug
ON gms in front office people like do we sign
guys to extensions after year three more frequently that maybe
we have in the, past because these kids are going
to be willing to.

Speaker 1 (01:34:02):
Go the other THING i think is helpful is.

Speaker 5 (01:34:05):
You get to see how they handle, money AND i
think that's a critical piece, too is like do they
play for the money and what do they do with the?
Money and so you, know that's one thing like what you,
buy what was your biggest? Purchase what do you have?
Left you, know is it door dash and? Sneakers is
it mom's? House what would you do with the? Money
and so those are two THINGS i think that are
gonna be very interesting to.

Speaker 1 (01:34:23):
FOLLOW i probably would have been door dashing. Sneakers i'm
just being. Honest mike McCarthy And pittsburgh does it.

Speaker 3 (01:34:31):
WORK i want to.

Speaker 5 (01:34:33):
Believe so you, know the fun story for me is
THAT i entered THE nfl in nineteen ninety three with
The Kansas City chiefs as an intern from.

Speaker 1 (01:34:41):
The university Of.

Speaker 5 (01:34:42):
Kansas mike McCarthy was there and he was the offensive
quality control, coach so and Then Russ ball was in.
There he was the assistant strength coach for all You packer,
fans so it was a really amazing locker. ROOM i
love Coach, mike love him to. Death he's a great.
GUY i think the players will love. HIM i thought
The steelers might go more younger because they've been so

(01:35:03):
consistent of like five to one guy and sit on
him for twenty. Years BUT i think it can work
Because mike is one hundred percent A pittsburgh, guy AND
i think people will be understanding of that and hopefully
work with. Him he's just got to kind of get the.
WHOLE i think the roster needs a lot more work
than what people. THINK i think there's a lot there's
a lot of goals in that team right, now especially

(01:35:24):
from a skilled position set THAT i think that The
steelers have to address and hopefully it can do that on.
Offense but, AGAIN i Think mike can continue to streak
of a non winning season or non losing.

Speaker 1 (01:35:34):
Season excuse, Me oh, yeah that's so. Terrible who's the
team that people like? Yourselves guys that really know that
they've you, like what they've done with their coaching staff
in the, offseason doesn't mean they had to do wholesale, changes. Right,
Obviously baltimore has been a, Change pittsburgh's been a, Changed
cleveland's been a, Change arizona's been a. Change you kind

(01:35:56):
of go through, Those but it can be coordinator, in coordinator,
out it can be any little thing the team that you're,
LIKE i like what they. HAVE i like what they
have going into this.

Speaker 5 (01:36:06):
Story, Yeah i'm going to take the easy, answer BUT
i truly feel. THIS i think it's The. GIANTS i
just think what they're bringing into that, building the level
of involvement THAT i Think harball, has not only just
with the coaching, staff but also front, office with players
and the decision making in terms of like draft picks
and free. AGENCY i really like The giants and what they've.

(01:36:30):
Done AND i know they're picking five AND i get
how that's you, know a critical pick for, Them but,
man don't they just they just feel like the team
that's going to take the running back and just be,
like we're, Good we're you, know we're going to Take Jeremi.
Love we're going to make up for Sa Kuon. Barkley
but That's harball. Also SO i think that's the one
thing that's very interesting to watch is how do The

(01:36:52):
giants handle the obvious selection Of JEREMI i love sitting
in five and hoping it doesn't go ahead of, them
but maybe they try to trade down one or two
spots to get. Him but to, me that off season
with him as a coach and WHAT i think his
impact will be in the organization is.

Speaker 1 (01:37:06):
Tremendous, YEAH i would someday there'll be a book written
about what happened between him And. Lamar, yeah, right because
they did a very good job of hiding. It but
If Lamar jackson wanted him to be the coach of The,
ravens we both know he'd be the coach of The.
Ravens so something had to happen there And i'd be
really interested to know what that. Is in the, MEANTIME
i agree with. YOU i appreciate you joining us how

(01:37:28):
many times have you been To Saint elmos this? Week?

Speaker 5 (01:37:31):
Nice so not, Bad it's actually pretty good in a
five day, span just. Twice but absolutely every YEAR i
find a, rookie somebody's never been here and they try
to swim cocktail and you just videotape the.

Speaker 1 (01:37:42):
Reaction it's the penst. Effort what is your? Steak you
know a lot distributors are is one of our sponsors?
Here what is your steak cut of?

Speaker 5 (01:37:51):
Choice i'm a simple. Guy i'm not A i like
either a strip OR i like the. Flight that's that's
WHERE i. Go but IF i had to, chew do
a bone in, strip.

Speaker 1 (01:38:03):
Bone in? Strip? Yep, okay. OKAY i know people that
are like The, cowboy which is a bone In. RABBI
i know the. STRIP i didn't know the bone in.
Strip it's the.

Speaker 5 (01:38:13):
Bone and strip of the bone in. Flair to, me
are the two best cuts.

Speaker 1 (01:38:15):
Of meat you can. Get? Okay and then how do
you like it?

Speaker 5 (01:38:18):
Prepared medium? Rare i'm old, School i'm proper LIKE i
was given. HIM i was out with an agent last
night for. Dinner actually had a.

Speaker 1 (01:38:26):
Steakhouse he didn't do well. Done let me tell, me, well.
Done he.

Speaker 5 (01:38:29):
Did he did medium well, butterfly butterfly the. Steak So
i'm like you just LIKE i asked him if he
wanted to catch.

Speaker 1 (01:38:37):
Up so did he know that's not a? Compliment oh you?
Do he.

Speaker 5 (01:38:42):
Knew he was, LIKE i don't have to do that to.
Me i'm, like, Oh i'm gonna do it To you're
gonna have to learn how to eat this.

Speaker 4 (01:38:46):
Thing.

Speaker 5 (01:38:47):
Like, SO i had another guy that used to be
with my organization AND i finally got him from well
done to, medium AND i thought that was a.

Speaker 1 (01:38:54):
Success So i've it. Is it is a success, story no. Question.
Mike you're the best. Man enjoy any With talk to you.
Soon all, right let's welcome him. In he's the seven
Time All, star four times silver slugger and friend of
friend Of, fod friend Of. Doug He's Matt, holliday he, joins,

(01:39:15):
US i do have to ask BECAUSE i didn't publicize,
it but social media. Has your house is for sale In, Stillwater,
oklahoma your. Hometown it's an unbelievable, house As i've spent
as much time there as probably anyone who doesn't live. There,
RIGHT i owe you some rent, Money but my question

(01:39:38):
is what's that, like, Right IT'S i mean that house
is very personal to you, guys, right it was you
you you bought bought it and moved back and started
to build it DURING, covid, right and obviously the two
boys were drafted in that, house so many great. Memories
but then to have it kind of like broadcast on
social media that is for, sale like, WHAT i don't,

(01:39:59):
know what's that experience been like for?

Speaker 3 (01:40:01):
You, Uh it's it's.

Speaker 4 (01:40:04):
OKAY i mean it's been a little weird THAT escn
like synam an, Alert like talking To buddy today over
At Rockies camp and he's, LIKE i got an alert
on my phone FROM espn about your, house AND i,
thought that's. Weird so the amount of attention that's got

(01:40:24):
is a LITTLE i guess caught me off. GUARD i didn't,
mind you, know if it helps sell. It, obviously the
market and Still, Water oklahoma for a house like that
is is is pretty.

Speaker 3 (01:40:37):
Small so if it helps sell it to, uh to
use the fact that we live, THERE i.

Speaker 4 (01:40:43):
Mean you, know people can probably put it together with
the baseball field and already the videos that we've done
in that.

Speaker 3 (01:40:48):
House BUT i have been a little caught off.

Speaker 4 (01:40:52):
Guard with something LIKE esp know some of the things
that have picked it up a Weird, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:40:58):
It's, like why LIKE, tmz why do you like for
me WHEN i got? Suspended, well why DOES tmz care
about the coach Of Green? Bay WHICH i view is
a good, thing right because you know we but it
still is and a house IS i don't, know just so.
PERSONAL i will tell you that this is my honest
HOW i HOW i is HOW i describe your. House

(01:41:19):
we've never discussed this. BEFORE i tell people that it
is absolutely the nicest House i've ever been. In that
is the least douchey incredible HOME i can ever. Imagine,
LIKE i don't know how you And less did, it
and obviously you had some really talented designers on. It but,

(01:41:39):
YEAH i mean the setting and all the things are,
great but it is not look at how much money we,
have just. Not it's it's actually a, home which is
the hardest thing to create when you're trying to. Build
at the, time it was your dream.

Speaker 3 (01:41:53):
Home, yeah and you know it was.

Speaker 4 (01:41:55):
Functional we've lived in different, places you, know a. Lot
like people in, sports you live in different houses and you,
live you, know different homes that you like about you
like this about, it or you liked that about, it
or you didn't like. This so we try to build
a house and take all the things that we've liked
about all the different.

Speaker 3 (01:42:11):
Houses we've, liked and kind of THE i don't, KNOW
a vibe is.

Speaker 4 (01:42:14):
Certainly a very popular word these, days but to create
the vibe that.

Speaker 3 (01:42:19):
We like in certain rooms or. Whatever so it turned out.

Speaker 4 (01:42:22):
Great we won't get, into you, know why why we're
moving or where we're. Moving you, KNOW i think that's
probably out there, too but, yeah it's it. Was we
had a lot of great memories there and great times,
there and and certainly we'll take you, KNOW i think
probably four years in, it three or four years in,

(01:42:43):
it and and and there's certainly a lot to love about.
It but, yeah it's a it's a great home and and,
somebody hopefully we'll really enjoy it moving.

Speaker 1 (01:42:54):
Forward if, not it may soon Become Green bay's portal.
House when when the? When the? When the Portal and
it's only JUST i just know, that you, know things
need to be turned, over houses need to be lived,
in so we may turn it into the portal house
for The. Phoenix you have two, sons, Obviously. Jackson now
he's entering year three in The. Biggs, yes last year

(01:43:17):
was truly his first full year in The. Biggs what
how is this off season as a guy who's his
hitting coach is kind of. Everything how is this off
season different, from for, example last? Year because last YEAR
i know he wanted to add, strength, right and it
was it was such a whirlwind getting called, up being The,
bigs all those, things playing the, playoffs. Whatever then last

(01:43:40):
offseason was. Different what is this off season like For?

Speaker 3 (01:43:43):
Jackson, WELL i think you, know the more time you.

Speaker 4 (01:43:47):
Play he played a full season one hundred and fifty something,
games so he has an idea of what it takes
as far as the day, in day out grime of
a full.

Speaker 3 (01:43:56):
Season so just from him understanding what a.

Speaker 4 (01:44:00):
Full season in the major leagues looks like, PHYSICALLY i
think that is something that only experience. Teaches and so
now you know what it takes and physically gets, stronger
and you know we've talked about. That you, know every
year you try to gain five, pounds you, know you
don't try to gain ten or fifteen, pounds at least
in my, experience especially as a speed, player middle, infielder

(01:44:24):
you don't want to get too, big too, fast so
just continue to try to get. STRONGER i think he understands.
Himself the more you, play, obviously the more knowledge you
have of your own, game you're your own best. Coach
you've always said, that you, know as a hitting, coach
as any kind of, coach you want to coach them
to where they can coach, themselves, Right so my role

(01:44:45):
should be less and less as they get older and
have more experience that they should they you, KNOW i
Asked jackson what he thinks About ethan, swing you, know
just to pick his brain about you, know what he,
sees because he's getting more experience with big league players
and the big league, coaches and he's, talking you, know

(01:45:05):
shop With Gunner henderson and you know some great players
and around the.

Speaker 3 (01:45:09):
League and you, know they have.

Speaker 4 (01:45:11):
So much more data, now and so how are they
using all the analytics and they're they're scouting is so
much different than WHEN i, played as far as the
percentages of what guys throw and just how they use
all the all the technology that they have.

Speaker 3 (01:45:26):
Now SO i learned a lot from, him and then
it helps me Help.

Speaker 4 (01:45:30):
Ethan and THEN i also like that they you know
That jackson can speak Into ethan swimming and his his
baseball career, Also so.

Speaker 3 (01:45:41):
It certainly is is a maturity.

Speaker 4 (01:45:43):
Transition off season it looks a little different because he's
he's got more big league experience now and he knows
what it's, like and SO i, think you, know for,
me you, know some of it's a little BIT i,
guess you, know truth be told a little bit sad
that he doesn't he doesn't quite mean me like he
hasn't in previous years because he's older and experienced and

(01:46:05):
we're now just kind of bouncing things off of each.
OTHER i don't have TO i don't have to coach
him sub per se as much and just talk the
game and and things like.

Speaker 3 (01:46:16):
That, so, uh, certainly you know it's a, transition you.

Speaker 4 (01:46:20):
KNOW i think you, know as you, know as your
kids get, older the role as a parent and even you,
know as a, coach it, transitions it, changes it. Progresses
it it just looks. Different it's it doesn't mean it's
worse or, better it's just it's. Different it is.

Speaker 1 (01:46:37):
Different let's let's get to the bigs this. Year your
favorite acquisition that was made in the, offseason just you're the.
One it doesn't have to be a, superstar just you're
fairwell like, OOH i like.

Speaker 4 (01:46:52):
That. YEAH i, mean, look just from a fact That
i've watched a lot of o reels baseball With, jackson you,
know Having Pete, alonso a guy that you can pencil
in for thirty five homers and one hundred RBIs into that, LINEUP.

Speaker 3 (01:47:05):
I think changes their lineup a. Lot so when you
can plug a guy.

Speaker 4 (01:47:11):
Like pete a lonzo into the middle of your, ORDER
i think it takes pressure off everybody. Else they Added
Taylor ward from the Or angels that hit thirty homers last,
year so that helps.

Speaker 3 (01:47:20):
Too but that one sticks. Out i'm trying to think,
of you, know maybe some other.

Speaker 1 (01:47:24):
Ones That what do you think of The edwin dias
to The, Dodgers AND i say that because they've been
able to win a Couple World series without a dude
or a guy that they thought would be their dude
to close things. Down on the other, hand it's just,
different right you were with The mets before you. Didn't
the pressure is, different the setups, different and closers can be.

(01:47:46):
Weird they can be LIKE nfl, kickers right where all
of a sudden they can have it and then overnight they.
Don't what's your thoughts On Edwin diaz At Dodger stadium
closing things?

Speaker 3 (01:47:55):
Out, YEAH i, MEAN i.

Speaker 4 (01:47:56):
Think the relief pitchers in general always to me is
like he's got a great track, record so he's a
little bit different than than. Most you, know he's been
pretty consistently. Dominant but if you look at relief pitchers in,
general it's it's pretty. Volatile SO i always, saw you,

(01:48:19):
know when you talk about impact or guys that are
going to impact the team in an, ORGANIZATION i always
side on position players just because it's a it's a.

Speaker 3 (01:48:27):
You, know more, frequent they have a bigger, role they
play more.

Speaker 4 (01:48:30):
Innings, obviously if you can plug a closer, in who's a,
lockdown you know with The, dodgers you, know you get
a chance to probably.

Speaker 3 (01:48:38):
Forty to fifty.

Speaker 4 (01:48:38):
Saves he's probably looking at, opportunities you, know if if
he pitches as.

Speaker 3 (01:48:41):
Well so they've been.

Speaker 4 (01:48:44):
Able to do it without you, know a, lockdown like
this guy's pitching the ninth no matter. What but they
have had a ton of talent in the, bullpen which
has helped. Them you, know two years ago they basically
won without a, start you, know without much starting pitching at,
all and then last year they won with mainly starting.

Speaker 3 (01:49:03):
Pitching so they've done it in a couple of different.

Speaker 4 (01:49:05):
Ways AND i think, he's LIKE i, said when you
have that kind of money and you just he's a,
luxury you, know for them to.

Speaker 3 (01:49:13):
Have at the back.

Speaker 4 (01:49:14):
End But i'm always a little, Hesitant doug with relief,
pitchers just, because like you, SAID i, Mean Roldis chapman,
was you, Know Roldis chapman. Was you, know he's Been
hi's the. Why and he's also been you, know signment
with the pirates.

Speaker 3 (01:49:29):
Because no one else wanted. Them So i'm always a little.

Speaker 1 (01:49:33):
Hesitant, okay you study, swings you study, swings AND i
won't name, names but you've told me before and guys
got a catch like, like, eh there's a hole. There
Kyle tucker two hundred and forty, Million Alex bredman one
hundred and seventy, Five Boba schett won twenty. Five you
mentioned Pin alonso one hundred and fifty, five And dylan

(01:49:53):
ceese IS i think he's the for two hundred and
ten million. Dollars of those who's swing do you. Can
would you concern yourself the most in terms of replicating
their success which allowed them to get these gigantic.

Speaker 4 (01:50:08):
CONTRACTS i would say Probably Kyle pucker concerns me just
because it's very, unorthodox and that doesn't mean that IT'S i,
mean he's obviously made a great career out of.

Speaker 1 (01:50:22):
It what what's? Unorthodox explained to the? Layman what's unorthodox
about his?

Speaker 3 (01:50:28):
Swing it's it's it's a little bit of a pool
and an.

Speaker 4 (01:50:33):
Underswing which you know nowadays people like launch, angle but
it's uh, uh you, know and just from a kind
of just if he you, know just kind of a
simple it's a little longer swing than than maybe some
of the top end, players and he creates a lot

(01:50:53):
of top spin to the pool, side and he's and
he was able to kind of top spin some balls
of the fence last year the, offense which concerns we
took a good, dip pretty good. DIP i think he
was still above average player and a lot of AND
i think a lot's been made that he had a
little bit of a risk.

Speaker 3 (01:51:11):
Injury But.

Speaker 4 (01:51:14):
I'm confident In Alex bregman because you, KNOW i you,
KNOW i think it's a pretty simple short. Swing he's
going to hit really good on days when the wind's
blowing out, there and he's probably not going to hit
many homers when the wind's blowing. In so the thing
About Rickley field that's interesting is it could effect like

(01:51:34):
how many days they get where the wind's blown out
and how many days they get where the winds blowing,
in more than any other stadium in the major, leagues
because there's days you can't hit it out from second,
base and there's days where you can pop it up
to left center and the shortstops running after him goes
over the. Fence so it's it's a very volatile, park
AND i Think Kyle tucker got some of that last.

(01:51:56):
Year So i'm interested to see what that looks. Like your,
stadium which is probably pretty. NEUTRAL i think it's more
hitter friendly on day games and probably picture friendly on night.
Games but IF i had to pick one of, THOSE
i would probably Say Kyle tucker concerns, me especially at
the that.

Speaker 1 (01:52:13):
Price, matt you're the. BEST i do hope that we
get to watch playoff games this year In arizona with,
you where you guys can guess the exit velo of every.
HIT i always enjoy, that learning a ton about. It
in the, MEANTIME i apologize for the media broadcasting the
sale of the. Abode that wasn't my. DOING i love

(01:52:36):
having you on and enjoy the spring In. Arizona we'll
talk to you really. Soon, okay sounds. Good, okay that's
it for this edition Of The Doug Gottlieb show podcast
or re. Minder you can download the podcast or every download,
podcasts but if you go over the iHeart, app you
can download pretty easily just Typing Doug Gotlieb. Show and

(01:52:57):
you can always download. This it's on the Formerly All Ball.
Feed pretty, cool right when you get a chance to
hear from a guy who is A gm in The
Nation Football, league a guy who was An All star
In Major League baseball and then the biggest AN il
agent in college. Basketball that's what you get. Here and
my thanks to my, things to all my. Guests this

(01:53:18):
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