January 19, 2026 • 52 mins
Coach Gottlieb explains what tough lessons he learned as the Phoenix saw their 5-game winning streak snapped against Oakland.
Then, he’s joined by Daniel Poneman of Weave Basketball - a player representation and consulting group focused on NIL - to discuss the portal window being pushed back until after the NCAA Tournament, the pros, cons, and why the new date is largely irrelevant.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, what up.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome in, I'm Dog Gottlieb. This is all Ball. Here
in the Doug Gottlieb Show, All Ball Hot Feed. We
get to catch up with super agent in the nil Era,
Dan Poneman for our weekly visit coming up. And I
challenged Dan and one of the things that we're going
(00:28):
to do as we move forward is and Dan is super,
super honest about where his positioning comes from.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Right, he is an agent for the players.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That means he represents their best interest, not my best interest,
not the school's best interest, not the NCAA's best interest.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Again, a true.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Agent has only one goal in mind, to create the
best situation for the person or persons that he represents. Right,
So my job is to one talk about the topics
that actually matter, and then two give the perspective of
(01:10):
the other side, not just the coach's side, the donor side,
the school side. All these things are in fact related.
So that's upcoming in the pot. As for a basketball side,
we got thumped in our last outing by Oakland and
the Golden Grizzlies.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Obviously, great Campy, he's been doing it forever.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
But that end of day five game winning streak in
which my team. I felt like I was starting to
kind of find their groove and really really gained confidence
in how.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
To win games. How to win games.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
The hardest thing I think to teach is how to win,
and I don't know if we've taught it thoroughly, because
we did. We did some losing stuff against Oakland and
it clearly got away from us.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
That said, it is just one game.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
You gotta flush it and know that they exposed a
matchup weakness that we have with them and with some
other teams that we're going to have to shore up.
We're gonna have to find a way to expose their
weaknesses next time we play them in Oakland, Michigan.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
That being said, it's a great learning lesson for me
as a coach.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
We thought, you know, last year, we got them out
of their zone, and Campi was incredibly effused in his praise,
even tho they beat us, and saying I was the
first coach and went fifteen years to get him out
of the zone.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
We couldn't this time.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
We didn't attack the rim, we didn't make our threes,
we didn't make proper reads. We got a little bit stuck,
and he did a great job of varying it as
he's changed it from last year because they're quicker at
the guard spots than they were last year, but they
don't have the rim protection they had last year. And
(02:48):
it's just interesting to see how he morphs how he
recruits to it. Right, Well, you can recruit players that
aren't strong in man and man defense if you can
hide them in a zone. And his zone is one
in which it's very hard to run man to man
stuff against which ultimately, when we run zone, we don't
run the same zone. You know, it still becomes about
exposing our weaknesses. At some point when you get to
(03:10):
the high post, you got a match man for man.
So that's kind of the goal. As you get further
on in the season, can you make a zone team
essentially play man because the reason they're playing zone is
they don't want to play man. Making zens right like
you're playing zone the greatest compliment you can give me.
(03:30):
And it happened earlier this year in conference play. I
won't share with you it is because we still play them.
Another time is a team that doesn't play any zone
and you're kind of shredding them. Ultimately throws out a
zone just to hey, we got to stop your rhythm and.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
It didn't work.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Ultimately, they did stop a rhythm, but not with the zone.
Point is that you play zone because you're trying to
hide what you.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Can't do in Mando Man.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
If that makes sense to you, and I know that's
why coach Campy does it. It allows his big guys
to play longer and play without foul trouble because he
puts their head under the rim and they rarely come
out from there. He has a really talented point guard,
but he's fairly diminutive, and we would get him in
switches or we would just post him. We'd use our
(04:18):
size advantage even though he has a quick disadvantage. And again,
when you hide him within his zone, he becomes really
he's a very smart, very athletic, very quick player. And
the other thing that they're able to do, and again
he can do it because he's been there for over
forty years, is they play I think seven guarantee games
against the highest level of competition and not freak out
when they don't win any of those games. No one's
(04:39):
firing great Campy, so he can fiddle with work on
develop his team, develop what he wants to do. And
teach him how he wants to play, and while they're
trying to win games, they're not concerning themselves with losing
those games because that's one how they fund their program.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
And two, he knows that no.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
One's going to fire him because he loses to Michigan, Arkansas,
saw Kentucky blah.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Blah blah blah blah blah blah bah.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
The rest of us, we're just trying to get our
head above water, play the guarantee games to be competitive,
and then try and find a way to schedule to
where we can finish with our head above water, because
it's that's the challenge of being at a mid major.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
So the point of it is, these are lessons.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
That you learn over time as you're a young coach
and you're kind of growing. And I thought their game
plan was brilliant. I thought they exposed us some I
thought we didn't make shots, we didn't make smart plays,
some of our guys didn't listen to our preparation, and
some of our preparation has to be better. So all told,
that's what happens. Whereas in the previous five games, I
(05:41):
felt like we were very connected, but there were also
matchups that maybe they didn't favor us, but there wasn't
as much.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Exposure for where we are weak.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And additionally, like it's not just about matchups, it's about
we had some guys that have been playing at a
very high level that didn't play.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
We didn't play well, and.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
When when your best players don't play well, you can
only survive so much, especially when you're playing against a
really talented team at your level, which is what Oakland is.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
They are very talented and he did a great job.
So Lesson learned.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
The other part too, it is if you've been following
our story, I've been wearing the same quarter zip and
polo every game since the wind streak started without washing it.
That was a mistake on Sunday because it didn't smell well.
And after we beat Cleveland State on Thursday, I got
doused with water because it was my fiftieth birthday and
(06:34):
now the stank was really bad. Plus it kind of
brushed up against some things in my bag, and there
was some coloring on it that wasn't white.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
It was bad news.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So it's not the end of the world, even though
it feels like it at the time when you're standing
at the Sideline's and you just don't have the right
plan and you get beat by a better team on
that day.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
But the good news is we live to play another day.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
We go to Youngstown State and a Robert Morse on
the road as their travel partners this upcoming Thursday and Saturday,
and I will be wearing clean clothing for the first
time in the new year. That's the good news. Otherwise,
I do think that there's one thing going on in
college basketball which is absolutely fascinating, which is trying to
(07:23):
figure out who are actually.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
The elite teams at each level.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Right, and again, let's just take Miami of Ohio and
is undefeated. I believe they are now currently ranked in
the top twenty five. It's really interesting because obviously Travis
A played a softer schedule, right, They didn't play any
I don't think they play any by games. And they
(07:49):
can sit there and say, hey, nobody wants to play us,
and it's true, nobody wants to play home and homes
against It's really really hard to schedule when you're somewhere
in that kind of one fifty to two twenty five range.
You know, last year when we were terrible, every after
every loss, there'd be an email or text if somebody
(08:10):
wanted to play. Who doesn't want to play, Hey, oh,
we'll start at your place next year.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Right, Actually that's not how they use it. You gotta
start our place. But the point is that Travis's schedule
that's wrong.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
It doesn't mean they're not difficult games, that they were
underdogs early in the season, but it's always interesting on
how you know, if you really challenge your team at
your level, if you can afford to do that, you
can keep your confidence high those high major games like
when we played Kansas that just zapped us of all
(08:45):
of our confidence because our guys thought they sucked and
they were not good that day. But part of it
is Ken is better at every spot and they got
a Hall of Fame coach, like, they're just better. You know,
we don't have Flory, but Dounga we don't have. Obviously,
Darren Peterson played against us. Those guys are super high
level pros, and our guys, of the ten new ones,
(09:08):
none of them had played a Division one game.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Before in their life. So when everybody wants you.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
To schedule the hardest schedule possible, but remember they don't
know shit about running a college basketball team, and though
you have to schedule up and at our level in
our league, we got to make some money, so we
got to play.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Some guarantee games.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
You gotta be very careful with how much you travel
because it'll cause you to lose your next game. And
if you over challenge yourself at the wrong time in
the season, it can just let the air out of
any confidence balloon. So this is my way of saying
it's okay to be critical of mind Ohio and saying
they didn't play guarantee games. Their schedule wasn't at the
(09:52):
level of Oakland. Our schedule wasn't as difficult as some
of the MAC teams. But there's certain genius in it.
As he knew he had a good team, they built
up their confidence, they won games at their level. They
continue to find ways to win games in their league,
and they've done so without one of their best players
was out for the season. Confidence, I think is the
(10:15):
biggest element in winning college basketball. They have talent, sure,
but you should be somewhere in the neighborhood of your
opponent in your league. Talent wise should be Now, some
of us we don't have as many resources financially and
so or based upon where we are in growth of
the program. You may not have the talent of other teams,
but by and large, at your league, that's got to
(10:37):
be your level. But if you don't have any confidence,
it doesn't matter how good you are, how close you are,
how good your game plan is, you're not winning any games.
It can't be fake. It has to be earned, and
it's a hard way to earn it when you're playing schedule,
when people are critical of you and you schedule way.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Too difficult to gain.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
All right, more on that to come in the coming episodes.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
In the meantime, let's keept catch up with a boy DP.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
He is the founder of We've, which is the biggest
nil agency in the college basketball landscape.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Dan Ponaman joins me for his weekly visit on All Ball.
All right, DP, let's get with the news of the day.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Get news of the day actually came down yesterday where
there's a new portal window. So the portal doesn't open
until fifteen days after the championship game is played, right,
so it pushes everything back to mid April, as opposed
to last year when it opened up in March. I
(11:37):
have my own opinion on it, but let me just
get yours. How did you think that affects business for you?
There's also the coaching.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Change is made.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
You know, you can't get into it till five days
after the coaching change is made. If a coach is fired,
then there's thirty days after the coach is fired before
it opens up.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
So there's some other things.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
The bigger part is it's pushed back to after the
NCAA turned where the portal officially opens.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Okay, so first I'm gonna explain I'm happy you asked this.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
First, I'm gonna explain what these actual these rules actually mean,
these new portal rules, because I post something on my
Instagram about and a lot of people were like freaking
out and didn't actually understand what the new portal window means.
Then I'm gonna explain why they did it and how
it actually helps schools. And then i'm gonna explain why
it's impressive to players, because ultimately all of it's always
(12:30):
precedent to players in some way, shape or form in
the NCAA is making it really so. First off, they
changed the portal window used to be forty five days
after the portal. Then it became thirty. Now it's fifteen
days after the NCAA tournament. Why did they do that, Ay,
because last year the portal opened in mid March and.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
There were teams playing into April. So we had the
teams like.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Florida and Auburn who could be recruiting in the portal
because they were they you know, I was meeting with
Houston at the Final four last year about next year's roster,
and they were recruiting one of my guys when they
were still in the recruiting.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
When I in the portal, they're still playing in the
Final four, right.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Plus there's there's also the optics, which are bad of
team loses the game and kids in kids in the portal,
in the locker room, you know, he tweets it or
even teams playing a game, kids not playing and he
and now he's in the portal despite the fact that
like his team is still playing back.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
It's just it's just needlessly awkward to have.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Totally and theoretically, like I get why, it's actually good
for those schools and good for the game of Like
you know, last year I was talking to Todd Golden
and Jonathan Spear and the Florida staff about a guard
that I was interested in them, and they're like, we
can't know if we're interested because we haven't finished our
season yet and we're in the final four.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
We don't know who gonn say.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
It's like, I get why it's fair, but here's why
it'll ultimately be ineffective because the portal's portaling, whether it's
the portal's open or not.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
What we saw last year is like when guys.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
The portals open yet, the tweet on Tipton or Goodman
would be so and such player intends to enter the
transfer portal. Right, Basically their name is not in the portal,
but they are telling the world I will be giving a.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Moment it opens, and you can start recruiting me. So
what does that mean?
Speaker 4 (14:16):
It makes my job substantially harder because from mid March
through mid April, players when their season ends. If your
season ends on March fifteen, you're not going to sit
on your hands until mid April. You're gonna make an announcement.
I intend to enter the portal, and you want your
agent to tell you who's interested.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
So schools whose teams have finished playing and players who
have finish playing, who announce their attention enter the portal.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Portal.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
There will still be communication going on. It's just going
to be through third parties. So it just makes it
more complicated.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
But hold on, let me, let me, let me push
back on it for a second, and you tell me
what you think. So again, here's on the other side,
here's what allows us at our level. I can't speak
to the high major, but I do think that the
space it allows you to season is over take a breath,
exit meetings, Okay, because as you know, and like the
(15:11):
not so dirty secrets of the portal is not every
kid who gets in the portal wants to be in.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
The portal, right, it's not just the player's choice.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
And then there's always a portion of where I would
push back on you, which is which is the balance
has shifted to where the players have too much power.
I think it just do because they're not really firerable
in season unless you get super creative or the kid
(15:40):
opens the window for it. So it's like everybody wants
them to be employees, but they don't want them to
be fired. So that's that's limiting. But the point is
that again, at least our plan when we saw it
come out was great. Right where it gives us a
chance to if we make the tournament, awesome experience. If
we don't make the tournament, okay, if they get to
(16:03):
the spring break, awesome and they come back and now
we sit down, we do some exit meetings, we see
what's what, and we get where their head's at, we
get where our head's at, and then we can go
forward that way. When the portal does open, and I
will grant you all of this stuff will all the
moving and shaking will still be done, okay, but it's
not actually done until the portal opens. It allows you
(16:26):
to know, okay, when the portal opens, I know what
I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Need, and I know what I'm not gonna need. Make sure.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
It allows you to make definitive decisions. It also basically
allows you if you have a guy in a one
year deal and I want to get to multi year
contracts in a second, it allows you kind of the
first right refusal for negotiations. Technically, yes, of course, they
can always go in the portal, but they're still you know,
make that they're still under contract and they're still you know,
(16:53):
working for you or working with you whatever.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Until the day.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
So that gives you the first ability to negotiate with
them when no one else has that. Now, I'll tell
you how it benefits the players, and I think you
know this, which is all depends upon contracts and how
many months. But this gets them into April. It gets
them another check, right because many some of these contracts
(17:18):
are ten months, some are twelve months, okay, and based
upon when they start, when they end the second you
enter the portal, and again it's all based upon the contract.
But most people the second the end of the portal,
the money is done. And so now this allows them
to get one more paycheck, so it does actually benefit
(17:40):
the student athlete while also benefiting teams giving them the
first chance to negotiate.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Well, DoD if you know, not of my players around
twelve month contracts are online month contracts because I know
this business works and they'll get paid for it first.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
But other players and bad agents are no agent.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Yes, they do lose money on the half of the
portal that they're out to, all them on cycles and
or ten on cycles. So I do agree with you
on that it gives them a chance to another paycheck.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
That's great.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
I do actually agree with what you're saying about the
opportunity to renegotiate and to if they're on one year
conference kind of gives a little bit of restricted free
agency action and I first right of refusal, and I
like it, And if that was actually what was going
to happen, I would say that this is an ideal system,
right because to me, like I've recruited players recently where
(18:30):
I'm explaining why our agency is the best in this
business by every single metric imaginable and my own opinion.
But they'll say, well, this other agent came and said,
you know, this school in the Big twelve has a
million for me already, And I'm like, all right, cool,
what's your point. I know that school too, well, you
got to bring me offers. If I'm not doing that,
I'm not calling teams mid season to offer a kid
(18:52):
on another team mid season.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
I don't even mind. I'm the best in the world
when I do. I don't even.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Rawl some college kid with some offer. No, if you
hired me when the portal, let's get to work. I'm
gonnaets you pay. You're gonna get millions of dollars. But
if you want someone to you know, subvert the integrity
of the eco system we have.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
And then go for it. But that's my point is done.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
I would love at the end of the season if
we had like a two week three week period where
we're just renegotiating with their current schools before we decide
for entering the portal, because right now it's messy right
being talk to coaches well, gates are happening to see
if they're extending the deal, what it's going to be.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
I would love if that was the case.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
But the reality is, even with these new rules, the
net bell rings and the last game of the season, people
are going to be scrambling to recruit new players.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
And it is all to the distinction between mid major
and high major.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
Right there is like a trickle down you any portal,
you're not going to be as aggressive as some of
the high majors the first two weeks because you're gonna
have to wait for some of those kids who thought
they were going to high major to realize their phone
is not ringing from the SEC and I, oh, Green
Bay call look great right now. So there is a
primary market, secondary market, tertiary market, and really that primary
(20:10):
high major.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Market that's going to happen.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Before the portal actually opens. But the last thing I'll
say on this point, we haven't gotten the point of wide.
It's oppressive, and it is by shortening the window of
forty five to thirty to fifteen days. Here's what effectively does.
It traps players in situations they can't get out of
where coaches can lie through their teeth and have no repercuptions.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Here's what that means.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
In a forty five day So, first off, when people
saw that to a fifteen day portal window, some people
thought that meant to enter the portal and commit to
a school, and scientist school it all had happened in
fifteen days, that would be ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
No, it's just to put your name. But what happens
then is in a.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Forty five day window to put your name in even
a thirty day window, people are entering and committing to schools,
and then kids on those teams are saying, oh, I'm
the backup because they just got this guy.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
And I'm not going to play it cool.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Let the end of the portal, right, it gives time
for players to see the moves.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
You're explaining it very well to me.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Okay, so let me explain to people who may be
a little bit more lay person. Right, So again your assumption,
and I do believe this happens, which is, hey, you
come in, you meet like, hey, dude, we want you back.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
All right, what's the role, what's the money? Right?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
You talk about all those things, here's what we think,
blah blah blah blah blah, and then all of a sudden,
the coach starts recruiting other guys at your spot and
you're like, yo, now I want to get in the portal.
And if the kid commits in the portal in day
fourteen or day fifteen, you're screwed. Can't get in the portal. Correct, understood, Okay.
(21:56):
But there's the other side to it, which is like
if it's open forty five days, and what happens with
these guys is some guys will wait and see what's what,
And then all of a sudden, somebody's got some money
left and you're a day forty, you know, and you
had planned on having that kid back, but he's not
(22:17):
on campus or whatever, and he's like, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Then he's like, you know what I.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Can get twenty grand more, thirty grand more, forty grand more,
five grand more, or just a better situation they can
leave like it is a game of cat mouse.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
And I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I mean, I just don't know if there's a perfect system.
And I think you're paying the picture of all of
us being these nefarious dudes who who work behind the
back of players, And I just again, I think that
one of the things, the good things that money brings
is you have to be honest with somebody with their role,
(22:57):
because you're gonna be honest with them with their role
based upon how much money they're making.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Right, So I mean, again.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
What do you do if you want a kid to stay,
you offer him what he's making or a little bit
more if you're like, we'd like.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
You to stay.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
But if you really want to say, now you're going
way up in money, and if you want them to leave,
you go, hey, dude, we love you, but there's no
money for you next year. Do whatever you want, and
then they go into the portal like it's really that simple, right.
So I just I understand what you're saying, but I
think you're guarding against a very small percentage because most
teams prefer to keep their guys. If they offer to
(23:32):
keep their guys, they are important, and you can tell
where you fall in the kind of chain of command
or in the total pool based on how much money
you're making anyway, And so once you re sign your
starting small forward and you bump them up to where
he's one of your top pay guys, you're not going
to bring in somebody off the street.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
It's not it's the reality of it.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Plus, those kids aren't going to go like, well, you
already have a kid there at my spot. Unless you're
gonna pay me two x of what he's making, then
I know I'll play.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Well, no, everything.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
I rarely I think I know everything about this business.
And I think twice already on this, on this in
this episode, you brought points that are maybe rethink points,
and I think you are making good points here that
I always think from the player perspective.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Yeah, yeah, if you are, you're gonna screw my guy.
And honestly, it's not happening. My guys. Is my guys
that have leverage because they got meat.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
So no one's screwing my guys because I can drop
the hammer on you any fucking day, excuse my language. Yeah,
but it's really the kids who don't have an agency
like we who are trusting dear coach, and coaches like, oh, well,
here's twenty five thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Because you're you know, we love you. This is the
most we got. And then he's like, oh, great coach.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
And then they go and bring a guy this position
for one hundred thousand dollars two weeks later and he
realizes he's a back up.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
It's nothing you do. But it is if that kid
that I worry about.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
But it is a small percentage though the Torres says,
we save one life, you.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Save the world. So you know, I'm worried about each
of these kids, even if they're not my clients. I'm worried.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Again, My clients are good, they're protected, they got they
got a killer swam behind them. But okay, but to
your point, you're right. It does protect coaches in a
way because you we.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Got to have some level of protection and.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
You experienced this firsthand.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Right, this happens where And I'll say, I try with
my clients because I care about the coaches.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
I try to be that layer of protection.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Like I had a guy this year who signed a
seven figure deal and then and it was living in
a dream and then a few weeks later at school
back channel to them, Hey, we've got more seven more
seven figures plus a few more sixes. I want to
look at this, And I said, no, dude, you committed
to the school. They give me millions of dollars. There
(25:46):
are over a million dollars they're building. This coach is
building his season around you, and you're going to repay
him by saying I'm going to screw you over because
someone offered me an ACTU.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
One hundred grand. No, we're not doing that. I'm not
doing that. We committed this person. We're stick to our commitment.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
I think it's okay for a guy to flip a commitment,
and there are material changes in circumstances if they've been
lied to, right they they say, hey, you're gonna be
the high paid guard on the team, and the next
thing you know to is later they pay another guard more. Well,
you lied, so now I get to change. But if
the school you commit to upholds everything that they've said
and you just want more money elsewhere, you don't get
the flipic commitment.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
But in the NBA, we have guardrails to prevent to
work through these things.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Right in the NBA, even someone in FEBA as well,
Like there's systems to protect against.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
And this goes back to what we're talking about before
the employees.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
You're saying no one wants Everyone wants to be employees,
but no one wants to be get fired mid season.
I've had guys in the NBA get fired mid season
who are employees, and that's fine.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
And I on other guys who signed guaranteed contracts because
they have more leverage and they can't be fire mid season.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
So in any situation where there's employees, there's some employees
who can be fire mid season and others who can't,
and that becomes part of the problem. Now that'll be
even more complicated here because you're in a semester, you're
at school. You know what, if they can sign as
a semester, why not you can cut as a semester.
If that's the system we're creating, I'm cool with that.
We just need a freaking system. And when I said
we need a freaking system, a lot of people are
(27:09):
getting mad and yelling at the win. They're yelling off
into the void, They're yelling at God. We need a system.
Who's in charge of it, who's gonna make the systems.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
We have a system.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I'm with you, like I just we have a system.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Just deal with it.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
You know, build a team, do the best you can,
and you know you're gonna hit some, you're gonna miss some,
and you try and have a try to have a
good hit rate.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
And you know our thing is, hey, we.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Were not We're probably not gonna play the most, but
you're gonna get every penny.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
We promise it.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
And you know this is a this is a league
where you get great opportunity. Okay, that brings me to
There's a couple of things. The Some have a loyalty contract,
some have just a multi year contract, especially some of
the top end of twenty twenty six high school seniors
(28:01):
I believe are signing multi year deals. And the idea
behind it for the high major is nobody wants to
develop a player for somebody else, Like, yeah, hey, I
worked with him all year long as a red shirt
or as a freshman. Only two now when he's really
ready to play, Now he's playing for somebody else, Why
would I pay him a bunch of money. So this
(28:22):
is really more the high end freshmen who are on
that boardline of will they play, will they read shirt.
Whatever doesn't matter. They're staying in the program. And we're
not only investing you in your one, we're investing you
in year two. Here's the question from the coach to
the agent, which is will they hold up?
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Because in order to have a second year, you got
to have a buy out.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
And if the kid doesn't like it, or doesn't like
how he's being developed or like, what the Because the
problem with it is, as you know, teams change, coaches
change assistant coaches will change out a lot from year
to year. But teams, if you sign a two year deal,
you may have eight nine new teammates. The second year
you may not like it. So in order to get
(29:04):
out of that second year, there has to be some
sort of buyout. Do you think the second year holds
not just in holding players there, but in standing up
in court in terms of the buyout?
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Absolutely, the question becomes as the school, I want to pursue.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
It in court, right, and and I'll just tell you, okay,
so this is a real discussion, right, is that most
athletic directors don't want to because they think it makes
them look bad and no one will want to go
to your school. My perspective on it is that's bullshit. Okay,
(29:40):
kids want to go where they're gonna they're not gonna
go like, well, you know, you pursued Jimmy, who you
wanted to head under contract, and now you're pursuing me
and giving They're still gonna make their decision based upon themselves,
not what you did with Jimmy.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, I agree that I'm
at the same thought or our clients have. I'm not
paying commissions and.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Then it's like, I'm not going to sue you even
though you owe me, you know, twenty thousand dollars, because
I don't want my agency to have headlines that we're
suing a.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Player and this doesn't look good, right.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
But I ended that You're right, Yes, it's the same thing.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
It's like it's it's the people are thinking about what's
best for them, not what happened to somebody else.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
It's a fair point.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
I think I'm as soft and I don't like to
get into conflict with players.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
But anyway, it's either here. You know.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
What I want to say about the specific instance you've
discussed of multiyear conflicts and buyouts is there's a distinction
that's really really important that gets missed the nuance of
this distinction when we're having internet discourse about these these
deals like the kid at Washington State or the quarterback
(30:45):
in Tennessee, these biop deals. If a kid and or
his representation and or understand on the front end that
they are signing a contract with a buyo, and they
representation has an opportunity to read that contract and they
agree to it, and.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
They are responsible for upholding everything in that contract.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Okay, if the contract says it's one hundred thousand dollars
and if you transfer, you owe us twenty million dollars,
and the representation reason tells them get to sign it. Yeah,
they're not leaving unless they pay the twenty million dollars.
And that's fair because that's why you.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
High representation, that's why they negotiate. You read the contract,
you sign it. Now.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
My problem is when guys don't have good representation, or
when coaches tell guys not to have a nation and
they sneak these clauses in and kids don't know what
they're signing.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Their nineteen twenty twenty one year old kids. They're trusting
their coach. They might not have an agent. They don't
know what they're signing. They only find out later that
there was a buyout. So I'll give you an example.
I have a player at an SEC school and.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
We agree to a number, a good six figure number,
mid six stigures, and I get the contract and I
read it and it says that if he were to
enter the transfer portal next year, there's a callback of fifty.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Percent of this year's runnings. Okay, so that's the same thing,
five hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
See, and here's the portal. Then they have to pay
back two fifty from last year. This isn't the multi
year deal. This is a one year deal that basically
prevents it from leaving.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Us get to pay back. I read the fine friends
who was.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Kind of convoluted, and I went back to that coach
and I said, if you don't tell your collective to
fix this right now, I'm never answering your calls again.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
I'm never sading a player to your school. This is corrupt,
and they fix it.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
But there's other players at that SEC school that don't
realize they didn't have me as an agent. They don't
know that they transfer, they have to pay back half
the money. That's where it's wrong. That's where it's on
after the hole. That's where it's exploitative. But as long
as you have a representative that's reading that contract and says, hey,
it's this many years and if you leave, it's this
amount of money, and we all agree. Look, I have
a kid, and I'm I'm rambling here, but like I
(32:50):
had a kid in Europe recently who was making like
thirty thousands a European agent. You're making like thirty thousand
dollars a year with a three hundred thousand dollars Vio
got a seven bigger deal in the States.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
To pay the buyout right, they were paying to develop him. Yeah,
the salary was thirty thous they're paying to develop, and
they development to the point that it's worth a lot of.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Money to an acc school rate. Okay, So there are
insts or bots are fair. There are instances where for
is okay, I'll happily do a multi year deal with
a big buyout because they're giving you a platform, you're developing,
and you're investing in.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
I'm great with that.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
If I was a low major, It's funny people were
acting like these like multi year deals in buyouts are
like innovative. Four years ago when NIL started, I was
telling you, guys, look at Europe.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Look how they build their things, Look how they build
their programs.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
He signed young eighteen year olds to four year deals
with increasing pay and a massive buyout. If you develop them,
and that's how you replenish your coffers and you build
a program.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
And I was running a low major program. That's what
I would do if I was outside.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
A few eighteen year olds paying a little over market
value with a big buyout, develop them and then bless
them when they move on.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
It's not that crazy. We've been doing it in Europe
for soccer or basketball for decades, and that's my piece.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Okay, let me ask you. We talked about Europe. Okay,
what about loaning players? And I bring it up because
at our level, right you sit there and go, hey,
there's a young guy who won't play for two years there,
but if he comes to us, he will. And again
this goes back hand in hand with the three four
(34:25):
year contract idea.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
To even the big boys.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
You bring in a player, but you're like, hey, I
want him to play right away, but I want to
maintain his rights at the end. Of the year and
you can handpick who and where he plays for. Right,
it's something that they do. Everybody does in Europe. Right,
you pick the country and whether it's Red Star or partisan.
They own the rights to all the best young players,
(34:48):
and then they loan them out to whatever division wants
to use them as well as their junior team. Right
they want they're ready for first division. They come up
to first division or second division or whatever. How far
from that are we.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
I'm excited for this to happen. This is gonna be
perfect when it's already. There have been some situations where
we already are trying to attempt something like this, where
it's like, oh.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I'm a gentleman's agreement.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Yeah, I'm a major head coach. My assistant just got
this a major job. Let's place him here to develop him,
and he's gonna send him this way. But contractually it's
so hard to pull off safely because you can send
that kid there and then they can still just be like,
all right, thanks for the money, I'm gonna go wherever
I want. It's so hard to tie that in contractually,
and I'm my team is working on ways to figure
(35:36):
this out, but it's gonna be easiest when there's a
geographic similarity to contracts and be tied to geography. Money
can come to state state state school systems. Like, there's
a way to pull it off, and we're gonna figure
it out. And I'm excited for that day because it's
gonna be good for the game. You can get your
University of Wisconsin degree, you can stay within the system.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
The credits are all gonna transfer.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
You gonna get your money that you get to develop
and he is to play on the court and Frank Convincy.
I talked to my boyfriend the other day and he
said he's like, yeah, I was coming out today.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
I would have got on Wisconsin.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
I would have got in Green mayor Milwaukee for two
years and transfer of Wisconsin and then player of the year.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Okay, last one do you when you sign a player? Okay, Now,
I'm only doing this because media broadcasting agents have these
claws in the contract. I don't know about basketball agents
and specifically an il agents whether or not whether or
not they have it, which is this, if I get
(36:39):
you a job at a at a school, power for school. Okay,
Dan Pooman and Weave get you this job. Okay, at
the end of the year, you choose to leave, they
fire you, but you stay at whatever power for school.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Do you still get your percentage?
Speaker 2 (37:04):
And some agents have a deal where no matter where
you go your next contract, they get a piece of
more often when you stay than if it's a new job,
but they still retain your rights. How long do you
retain the rights to the player contractually even after they
fire you.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
This is a great question, and we're dealing with this
right now. This is a big topic of discussion in
our office. Is there's a player who wants to sign
with us, who wants us to forfeit our renewal rights
as part of signing, which I don't think is fair.
I think I want to be paid for work I do. Right,
So I get you to a school, and I find
(37:49):
the school and negotiate the deal. I identify the school,
I guide you there, and you get there and you
play really well.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
You can't come to me and be like, hey, thanks
for all your hard work.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
I'm going to stay here for two more years, but
I'm going to fire you and not.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Paying for the work you already did to me.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
If I'm identifying opportunity to bring you the opportunity to
negotiating the opportunity to get it either we are owed
to our commission for the extent of the time that
you have the opportunity at that place. Right, it's renewals, right,
And that's that's the big crops of the conversation here
is like, yeah, again, if I send someone to let's say,
you wouldn't see Wilmington for fifty K, and they're fresh
(38:26):
and they do great, and then the next year if
you moment I was playing four hundred, they don't get to.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Fire me and say, hey, thanks, thanks for bring the opportunity.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
I'm going to keep my you know, Okay, that I
think we can all agree on.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
But then here's where it gets complicated. Now on the
other end of.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
The spectrum, we can, but there's also okay, and you've
experienced this. You get a guy a deal, he then
fires you shortly thereafter, and then they get to the
point to where they want to stay and get renewed
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
And I just again, I think.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
When he fighters me, what matters. I've brought you that
opportunity with that program, and I hand.
Speaker 5 (39:03):
Picked is that in your contract renewals and exceptions Okay,
if it's in the again, I'm I'm with you, I
would do the I view it as the exact same
thing as you were talking about UH coaches and clauses
in the contract, and if your agent has actually read
it right like you should, this is probably like a
(39:24):
PSA to.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
To any of the players, which is, hey, even if
you any contract you signed, you should have a lawyer
look it over, even if it's the contract with a
lawyer to represent you in NIL or with Weave that
has lawyers to represent you in NIL, have a third
party look at the contract because you don't know what
contract law is. A contract lawyer does look at it. Again,
(39:47):
if it's important to you. Now you're being a professional.
You got to do professional things. What I where I
would meet you with this new player, which is again,
if I'm telling the kid, hey, if you really want
to work with Weave but you don't want to give
up the whatever centers you're charging, that too is negotiable, right,
Everything is negotiable.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Again.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
You may not want to come down off your number
and they may not want to pay it, and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
We shake hands and we go our separate ways.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
But my thing is again, if it's in the contract,
you gotta live up the contract.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
That's the big thing.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
That's the big frustrating thing for coaches, and for coaches especially,
it's like, hey, we're all held to our contracts and
yet you know, administrators don't want to pursue things on
contracts or we have claws and contracts.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Again, if we're gonna be adults and we're gonna.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
It's it's some sort of quasi employment and you're gonna
be a professional, it's got to be held in professional manner.
And that includes the relationship between agent and player. If
you're gonna do a handshake deal that that's on you
as an agent, or that's on you as a player.
But if you're gonna do actual contract, whatever is in
that contract, you have to abide by or there's going
(40:55):
to be a clause for if you break that contract,
a fee you have to pay or a portion of
the feed yet paid for a period of time.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:03):
Yeah, readouts in your contract and understand senior contract. And
we tried with our contracts to be as fair as possible.
Like for us again, it's like I don't do contracts
like some agents do.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Have like I own your rights for four years, and even.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
If you fired me in the year one, you have
to pay me for three years of commissions.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
That some certain I'm not doing that.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
But the hardest situation, and trying to be ethical, there's
always blind spots.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
The hardest situations I've been in is when you work
really hard.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
To get some of that initial opportunity and you bust
your butt for a deal for no money, and then
they blow up and then they're like, hey, thanks for
doing the hard work. Now I'm hitting the portal and
I'm not paying you anything. It's like I had a
kid two years ago. I knew this kid was kind
of had some character issues. Don't come on anyway. Got
him as fresh.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Than your deal.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
He barely played, coach hated him, had all these problems.
The next portal was a nightmare. Everyone knew this guy
character issues. But I found on the spot for sixty
thousand dollars, who was willing to give him a chance,
who I went to bat with the coach who worked
it out. I talked to this kid all season and
was in his corner, and my commission was very small,
(42:12):
and he blows up at this place making sixty k
and then fires me.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
And enters the portal with someone else that makes over a.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Million dollars this year, and I'm like, I did two
years of work to make close to nothing was in
your corner, and then when you hit it big, Now
I lost my opportunity to capture them on my work.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
And that's part of the game. And it's like, I
accept it.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
I should have known the kid had character issues and
he's gonna probably screw me at some point. I thought
I could help mentor him and get him to a
better place. But like, those are the hard ones. And
that's why it's like people, no one wants to care
about agents rights. No one cares about me and my
family and my staff who were working. I'm working fifteen
hour days every single day now till June. I get
(42:56):
Shabbat off for Kusham. We have a few hours of Shabbat.
Other than that, I'm working fifteen hour days. When I
think fifteen hour days, I mean I schedule fifteen minutes
when I have to use the bathroom every day.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
I can't just be like, oh, I got these baths.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
No, every moment of every one of my days, the
schedule from now until June, I'm busting my butt for
my staff and my and my and my clients. No
one cares about my rights. No one cared for my commission,
No one cared to my family. No one cares that
I'm guys with my staff with kids, and they're out
here grinding their tail off to support these these athletes
and trying to guide them, help the better people, help
(43:29):
them in better lives, help them find success and joy
in basketball. So yeah, when so the kid fires us
right before the portally loses a six figure commission, no
one's crying about it. So I don't expect anyone to care.
But my point is that like we are providing in service,
we areguing a job. We are honest and have integrity
what we do, and like sometimes we deserve to get
paid for that, and sometimes that means extensions and renewals.
(43:51):
When I got to an opportunity and you re up
with that school, that you're not going to stab me in.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
The back, No, listen.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
I think it's it's one of the things which is
brutally unfair. I think college basketball coaches and NIL agents
both were cast in this shat like we're basically slightly
above Amiba, slightly below that of used car salesman, and
it's like hold on now, you know, and people will
(44:18):
question your fees again. If I was a player, I
would negotiate the fee. Everything again is negotiable. But whatever
the fee is is because it's like again, people don't
understand that guys can walk.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
From agents, right, they just do. You know.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
It's like the old and you know this from NBA
guys that you've had, right, the last thing you want
is a second round pick, right, because you bust your ass.
And sometimes the second round pick is you had favors
to get guys workouts, and it's sort of a favor
to get him drafted. Then he get him drafted, and
then he immediately fires you because he thinks he was
a late first round pick, you know, and he's a
(44:57):
sackon round and he's really a secon round pick where
he goes undraft or whatever, and it's your fault, Like, no,
it's not my fault. I got you seventeen workouts and
I personally got you drafted in the second round, and
then you summarily fired me only to play in the NBA.
Stick in the NBA, hire a new agent, and then
he ends up getting all the glory with them. I'm
speaking your language, am I not?
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (45:17):
I had a player once who had he was with
another agent, had a zero workhouse. I told him sign
with me for ten days, so I'll get you some workhouse.
I end up getting five workhouts and I got a
promise from one of those teams to draft him. They
draft him in the second round, guaranteed the contract, and
then he fires me because his homie sees from back
(45:41):
in the day, got a job with the agency that
he fired in the first place to come with me.
I did such a good job that I got him
aud NBA roster became so valuable as his friend could
get a.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Job off his name, and I was like, you know what.
Speaker 4 (45:54):
I went for three months, I got the commission on
a two year contract, and God blessed him.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
That was his only contract he got.
Speaker 4 (46:00):
But but yeah, sometimes you do such a good job
getting a guy in the draft that their friends get
jobs and take them from you.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
Sometimes, yeah, you think that.
Speaker 4 (46:08):
You did an amazing job getting a guy a two way,
and they think that they should have they should have
gotten the first round pick. Sometimes you do such a
good job of the guy and million dollars and.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
They think they should get two and you know when
that happens. But you know what happened to me.
Speaker 4 (46:22):
Also this week, I got a text out of the blue,
out of the blue, A good player, a good college player.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
Hey, Dan, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
If you know me.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
I'm blank, Yes, I know you.
Speaker 4 (46:33):
I talked to this player in this player who was
my teammate and Juco and my teammate now and I
need a new agent, and they both said that you're
the best and you change their life. And I was
wondering you could be open to working with me. I
got that text and I sent it to my staff.
I was like, this is why we do it.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
The fact that we're not asking guys to recruit for us.
Speaker 4 (46:55):
They're so happy with the experience of having the schools
we pick with them, and they're telling their team mates, Hey,
you got to talk to my god Dan, he's the best.
That gives me strength, that's looking tooment through the fifteen
hour days. When I see my clients with families and
kids and they're opening retirement accounts in college, saving these
counts with their kids.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
We're doing this thing. That's what keeps me in it.
And yes, getting.
Speaker 4 (47:19):
Fired is part of the job, and I still it's
like emotionally artous.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
When it happens, I'm still like, what did I do wrong?
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Well?
Speaker 3 (47:27):
I thought this person loved me. I thought they're my family.
But it happens.
Speaker 4 (47:30):
Just like guys enter the transfer portal, they enter the
Asian portal, it happens accepted. I've gotten, I've gotten a
little thicker skinned through my years doing this. I've gotten
adult of it. But I'm never by my heart. I'm
not eating the grnched. My heart will never be fully parted.
And I still love these people that I work with,
and it's still hurts.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
It's honestly, it's no different than as a coach, where
you sign a kid and you truly believe in the
kid and you tell the kid how it's going to be.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
It's gonna be up and down.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
It's early your first year, your freshman, or it's the
first year of Vision one or whatever, like it's a
long process. S no coach, I'm in, you know, I'm whatever.
And then and of the year they come in and
you're talking about renewing, they're like, yeah, I'm an end
of the portal. It's the same thing, like I still
love you, I greatly disagree with what you're doing, and yeah,
(48:15):
and then you and then you watch him play for
other people, and you're like, should I cheer for this kid?
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Should I not cheer for this kid? I really like him? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (48:23):
So I've had guys that I did their just ham
multiple times for I did their college transfer. Yeah, and
then blow up and go with a big NBA agency,
And I'm watching him at the draft and I'm like, like,
there's one specific guy who got drafted in the first
round two years ago where he really wanted to go
to another school and I convinced him to go to
this school and he got drafted in the first off.
(48:44):
So I'm watching the draft, I'm like, yeah, I told
you where to go to school. I told you that.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
Yeah, I doesn't know your Dan knows.
Speaker 4 (48:52):
But then I'm seeing another agent I five him and
cry and I'm like, no, I grind him with him
to get here.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
You just got to go to the I did the
hard work.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
But it's okay, no question, no question.
Speaker 4 (49:04):
I'm still happy for them, And I still get to
tell recruits that I've had more negotiating, more transfers who
led your draft picks than anybody else died multiple There's
many transfers that I was behind who are now in
the NBA that I said.
Speaker 3 (49:18):
I'll leave you on one great quote. I use this
all the time. Chris Beard says to.
Speaker 4 (49:23):
Me when you were at the Final Four with my Airbnb.
He says, damn, how many NBA players are there in
the transfer portal?
Speaker 3 (49:31):
I said, no, I don't know, maybe fives.
Speaker 4 (49:33):
I said, Dan, there's none because if they were NBA players, they'd.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Be they'd be in the NBA.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
Not the transfer portal.
Speaker 4 (49:40):
They said they could become a NBA players if you
use the portal or the right place you can develop into.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
But if you're an NBA player, you'd be in the draft.
We're going to be in the portal. So when I
look at my track record, I've.
Speaker 4 (49:50):
Had like a lot of dudes to get drafted after
I did their transfer. Like, I'm really proud of that work.
But like I said, sometimes you such a good job that.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Rich Paul falls and hook and you know, someday, someday
people will say that about me. But for now, you know,
I run college.
Speaker 4 (50:09):
He runs the NBA is what it is, and we'll
you know, I'm fine with that for now.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
For now.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Maybe next time we'll talk about his podcast and the
trades that he proposed involving players around his clients and
how I pissed pretty much everybody off.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
But that's a different time for a different story.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
In the meantime, it's the only place you can get
a real conversation between the biggest nil agent and college
basketball and a sitting di Vision one men's head basketball coach.
He's the best and shabatchalom. Thanks for joining me. Talk
to you next week. All right, that's it for this
edition of All Ball in Doug Gottlieb Show. Feet Remember
(50:52):
if you're getting the new Doug Gottlieb Show as we
continue to morph inform these things, I think you'll love
the content. Remember this is about content, it's not about
any one thing. We tell stories with so many of
our college basketball friends and coaches, and we do the
same thing and we'll update you on stories of the
week with some of my guests weekly here on the pod.
(51:15):
So just keep it here in the feed, make sure
you keep it in your queue, tell your friends that
put it in your queue, and we truly appreciate you
listening and sticking with us.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Oh no, yeah, By the way.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
Think of the Phoenix as we travel to Youngstown, Ohio,
take on the Penguins on Thursday, and take on the
defending Horizon League Conference and tournament champion Colonials on Saturday.
Never hurts to have just an extra prayer and an
extra thought on our side.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
We appreciate you listening. I'm Doug out leave. This is
all ball.
Hey, what up.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome in, I'm Dog Gottlieb. This is all Ball. Here
in the Doug Gottlieb Show, All Ball Hot Feed. We
get to catch up with super agent in the nil Era,
Dan Poneman for our weekly visit coming up. And I
challenged Dan and one of the things that we're going
(00:28):
to do as we move forward is and Dan is super,
super honest about where his positioning comes from.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Right, he is an agent for the players.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
That means he represents their best interest, not my best interest,
not the school's best interest, not the NCAA's best interest.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Again, a true.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Agent has only one goal in mind, to create the
best situation for the person or persons that he represents. Right,
So my job is to one talk about the topics
that actually matter, and then two give the perspective of
(01:10):
the other side, not just the coach's side, the donor side,
the school side. All these things are in fact related.
So that's upcoming in the pot. As for a basketball side,
we got thumped in our last outing by Oakland and
the Golden Grizzlies.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Obviously, great Campy, he's been doing it forever.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
But that end of day five game winning streak in
which my team. I felt like I was starting to
kind of find their groove and really really gained confidence
in how.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
To win games. How to win games.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
The hardest thing I think to teach is how to win,
and I don't know if we've taught it thoroughly, because
we did. We did some losing stuff against Oakland and
it clearly got away from us.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
That said, it is just one game.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
You gotta flush it and know that they exposed a
matchup weakness that we have with them and with some
other teams that we're going to have to shore up.
We're gonna have to find a way to expose their
weaknesses next time we play them in Oakland, Michigan.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
That being said, it's a great learning lesson for me
as a coach.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
We thought, you know, last year, we got them out
of their zone, and Campi was incredibly effused in his praise,
even tho they beat us, and saying I was the
first coach and went fifteen years to get him out
of the zone.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
We couldn't this time.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
We didn't attack the rim, we didn't make our threes,
we didn't make proper reads. We got a little bit stuck,
and he did a great job of varying it as
he's changed it from last year because they're quicker at
the guard spots than they were last year, but they
don't have the rim protection they had last year. And
(02:48):
it's just interesting to see how he morphs how he
recruits to it. Right, Well, you can recruit players that
aren't strong in man and man defense if you can
hide them in a zone. And his zone is one
in which it's very hard to run man to man
stuff against which ultimately, when we run zone, we don't
run the same zone. You know, it still becomes about
exposing our weaknesses. At some point when you get to
(03:10):
the high post, you got a match man for man.
So that's kind of the goal. As you get further
on in the season, can you make a zone team
essentially play man because the reason they're playing zone is
they don't want to play man. Making zens right like
you're playing zone the greatest compliment you can give me.
(03:30):
And it happened earlier this year in conference play. I
won't share with you it is because we still play them.
Another time is a team that doesn't play any zone
and you're kind of shredding them. Ultimately throws out a
zone just to hey, we got to stop your rhythm and.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
It didn't work.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Ultimately, they did stop a rhythm, but not with the zone.
Point is that you play zone because you're trying to
hide what you.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Can't do in Mando Man.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
If that makes sense to you, and I know that's
why coach Campy does it. It allows his big guys
to play longer and play without foul trouble because he
puts their head under the rim and they rarely come
out from there. He has a really talented point guard,
but he's fairly diminutive, and we would get him in
switches or we would just post him. We'd use our
(04:18):
size advantage even though he has a quick disadvantage. And again,
when you hide him within his zone, he becomes really
he's a very smart, very athletic, very quick player. And
the other thing that they're able to do, and again
he can do it because he's been there for over
forty years, is they play I think seven guarantee games
against the highest level of competition and not freak out
when they don't win any of those games. No one's
(04:39):
firing great Campy, so he can fiddle with work on
develop his team, develop what he wants to do. And
teach him how he wants to play, and while they're
trying to win games, they're not concerning themselves with losing
those games because that's one how they fund their program.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
And two, he knows that no.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
One's going to fire him because he loses to Michigan, Arkansas,
saw Kentucky blah.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Blah blah blah blah blah blah bah.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
The rest of us, we're just trying to get our
head above water, play the guarantee games to be competitive,
and then try and find a way to schedule to
where we can finish with our head above water, because
it's that's the challenge of being at a mid major.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
So the point of it is, these are lessons.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
That you learn over time as you're a young coach
and you're kind of growing. And I thought their game
plan was brilliant. I thought they exposed us some I
thought we didn't make shots, we didn't make smart plays,
some of our guys didn't listen to our preparation, and
some of our preparation has to be better. So all told,
that's what happens. Whereas in the previous five games, I
(05:41):
felt like we were very connected, but there were also
matchups that maybe they didn't favor us, but there wasn't
as much.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Exposure for where we are weak.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
And additionally, like it's not just about matchups, it's about
we had some guys that have been playing at a
very high level that didn't play.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
We didn't play well, and.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
When when your best players don't play well, you can
only survive so much, especially when you're playing against a
really talented team at your level, which is what Oakland is.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
They are very talented and he did a great job.
So Lesson learned.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
The other part too, it is if you've been following
our story, I've been wearing the same quarter zip and
polo every game since the wind streak started without washing it.
That was a mistake on Sunday because it didn't smell well.
And after we beat Cleveland State on Thursday, I got
doused with water because it was my fiftieth birthday and
(06:34):
now the stank was really bad. Plus it kind of
brushed up against some things in my bag, and there
was some coloring on it that wasn't white.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
It was bad news.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So it's not the end of the world, even though
it feels like it at the time when you're standing
at the Sideline's and you just don't have the right
plan and you get beat by a better team on
that day.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
But the good news is we live to play another day.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
We go to Youngstown State and a Robert Morse on
the road as their travel partners this upcoming Thursday and Saturday,
and I will be wearing clean clothing for the first
time in the new year. That's the good news. Otherwise,
I do think that there's one thing going on in
college basketball which is absolutely fascinating, which is trying to
(07:23):
figure out who are actually.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
The elite teams at each level.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Right, and again, let's just take Miami of Ohio and
is undefeated. I believe they are now currently ranked in
the top twenty five. It's really interesting because obviously Travis
A played a softer schedule, right, They didn't play any
I don't think they play any by games. And they
(07:49):
can sit there and say, hey, nobody wants to play us,
and it's true, nobody wants to play home and homes
against It's really really hard to schedule when you're somewhere
in that kind of one fifty to two twenty five range.
You know, last year when we were terrible, every after
every loss, there'd be an email or text if somebody
(08:10):
wanted to play. Who doesn't want to play, Hey, oh,
we'll start at your place next year.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Right, Actually that's not how they use it. You gotta
start our place. But the point is that Travis's schedule
that's wrong.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
It doesn't mean they're not difficult games, that they were
underdogs early in the season, but it's always interesting on
how you know, if you really challenge your team at
your level, if you can afford to do that, you
can keep your confidence high those high major games like
when we played Kansas that just zapped us of all
(08:45):
of our confidence because our guys thought they sucked and
they were not good that day. But part of it
is Ken is better at every spot and they got
a Hall of Fame coach, like, they're just better. You know,
we don't have Flory, but Dounga we don't have. Obviously,
Darren Peterson played against us. Those guys are super high
level pros, and our guys, of the ten new ones,
(09:08):
none of them had played a Division one game.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Before in their life. So when everybody wants you.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
To schedule the hardest schedule possible, but remember they don't
know shit about running a college basketball team, and though
you have to schedule up and at our level in
our league, we got to make some money, so we
got to play.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Some guarantee games.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
You gotta be very careful with how much you travel
because it'll cause you to lose your next game. And
if you over challenge yourself at the wrong time in
the season, it can just let the air out of
any confidence balloon. So this is my way of saying
it's okay to be critical of mind Ohio and saying
they didn't play guarantee games. Their schedule wasn't at the
(09:52):
level of Oakland. Our schedule wasn't as difficult as some
of the MAC teams. But there's certain genius in it.
As he knew he had a good team, they built
up their confidence, they won games at their level. They
continue to find ways to win games in their league,
and they've done so without one of their best players
was out for the season. Confidence, I think is the
(10:15):
biggest element in winning college basketball. They have talent, sure,
but you should be somewhere in the neighborhood of your
opponent in your league. Talent wise should be Now, some
of us we don't have as many resources financially and
so or based upon where we are in growth of
the program. You may not have the talent of other teams,
but by and large, at your league, that's got to
(10:37):
be your level. But if you don't have any confidence,
it doesn't matter how good you are, how close you are,
how good your game plan is, you're not winning any games.
It can't be fake. It has to be earned, and
it's a hard way to earn it when you're playing schedule,
when people are critical of you and you schedule way.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Too difficult to gain.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
All right, more on that to come in the coming episodes.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
In the meantime, let's keept catch up with a boy DP.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
He is the founder of We've, which is the biggest
nil agency in the college basketball landscape.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Dan Ponaman joins me for his weekly visit on All Ball.
All right, DP, let's get with the news of the day.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Get news of the day actually came down yesterday where
there's a new portal window. So the portal doesn't open
until fifteen days after the championship game is played, right,
so it pushes everything back to mid April, as opposed
to last year when it opened up in March. I
(11:37):
have my own opinion on it, but let me just
get yours. How did you think that affects business for you?
There's also the coaching.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Change is made.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
You know, you can't get into it till five days
after the coaching change is made. If a coach is fired,
then there's thirty days after the coach is fired before
it opens up.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
So there's some other things.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
The bigger part is it's pushed back to after the
NCAA turned where the portal officially opens.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Okay, so first I'm gonna explain I'm happy you asked this.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
First, I'm gonna explain what these actual these rules actually mean,
these new portal rules, because I post something on my
Instagram about and a lot of people were like freaking
out and didn't actually understand what the new portal window means.
Then I'm gonna explain why they did it and how
it actually helps schools. And then i'm gonna explain why
it's impressive to players, because ultimately all of it's always
(12:30):
precedent to players in some way, shape or form in
the NCAA is making it really so. First off, they
changed the portal window used to be forty five days
after the portal. Then it became thirty. Now it's fifteen
days after the NCAA tournament. Why did they do that, Ay,
because last year the portal opened in mid March and.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
There were teams playing into April. So we had the
teams like.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
Florida and Auburn who could be recruiting in the portal
because they were they you know, I was meeting with
Houston at the Final four last year about next year's roster,
and they were recruiting one of my guys when they
were still in the recruiting.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
When I in the portal, they're still playing in the
Final four, right.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Plus there's there's also the optics, which are bad of
team loses the game and kids in kids in the portal,
in the locker room, you know, he tweets it or
even teams playing a game, kids not playing and he
and now he's in the portal despite the fact that
like his team is still playing back.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
It's just it's just needlessly awkward to have.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Totally and theoretically, like I get why, it's actually good
for those schools and good for the game of Like
you know, last year I was talking to Todd Golden
and Jonathan Spear and the Florida staff about a guard
that I was interested in them, and they're like, we
can't know if we're interested because we haven't finished our
season yet and we're in the final four.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
We don't know who gonn say.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
It's like, I get why it's fair, but here's why
it'll ultimately be ineffective because the portal's portaling, whether it's
the portal's open or not.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
What we saw last year is like when guys.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
The portals open yet, the tweet on Tipton or Goodman
would be so and such player intends to enter the
transfer portal. Right, Basically their name is not in the portal,
but they are telling the world I will be giving a.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Moment it opens, and you can start recruiting me. So
what does that mean?
Speaker 4 (14:16):
It makes my job substantially harder because from mid March
through mid April, players when their season ends. If your
season ends on March fifteen, you're not going to sit
on your hands until mid April. You're gonna make an announcement.
I intend to enter the portal, and you want your
agent to tell you who's interested.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
So schools whose teams have finished playing and players who
have finish playing, who announce their attention enter the portal.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Portal.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
There will still be communication going on. It's just going
to be through third parties. So it just makes it
more complicated.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
But hold on, let me, let me, let me push
back on it for a second, and you tell me
what you think. So again, here's on the other side,
here's what allows us at our level. I can't speak
to the high major, but I do think that the
space it allows you to season is over take a breath,
exit meetings, Okay, because as you know, and like the
(15:11):
not so dirty secrets of the portal is not every
kid who gets in the portal wants to be in.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
The portal, right, it's not just the player's choice.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
And then there's always a portion of where I would
push back on you, which is which is the balance
has shifted to where the players have too much power.
I think it just do because they're not really firerable
in season unless you get super creative or the kid
(15:40):
opens the window for it. So it's like everybody wants
them to be employees, but they don't want them to
be fired. So that's that's limiting. But the point is
that again, at least our plan when we saw it
come out was great. Right where it gives us a
chance to if we make the tournament, awesome experience. If
we don't make the tournament, okay, if they get to
(16:03):
the spring break, awesome and they come back and now
we sit down, we do some exit meetings, we see
what's what, and we get where their head's at, we
get where our head's at, and then we can go
forward that way. When the portal does open, and I
will grant you all of this stuff will all the
moving and shaking will still be done, okay, but it's
not actually done until the portal opens. It allows you
(16:26):
to know, okay, when the portal opens, I know what
I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Need, and I know what I'm not gonna need. Make sure.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
It allows you to make definitive decisions. It also basically
allows you if you have a guy in a one
year deal and I want to get to multi year
contracts in a second, it allows you kind of the
first right refusal for negotiations. Technically, yes, of course, they
can always go in the portal, but they're still you know,
make that they're still under contract and they're still you know,
(16:53):
working for you or working with you whatever.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Until the day.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
So that gives you the first ability to negotiate with
them when no one else has that. Now, I'll tell
you how it benefits the players, and I think you
know this, which is all depends upon contracts and how
many months. But this gets them into April. It gets
them another check, right because many some of these contracts
(17:18):
are ten months, some are twelve months, okay, and based
upon when they start, when they end the second you
enter the portal, and again it's all based upon the contract.
But most people the second the end of the portal,
the money is done. And so now this allows them
to get one more paycheck, so it does actually benefit
(17:40):
the student athlete while also benefiting teams giving them the
first chance to negotiate.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
Well, DoD if you know, not of my players around
twelve month contracts are online month contracts because I know
this business works and they'll get paid for it first.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
But other players and bad agents are no agent.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Yes, they do lose money on the half of the
portal that they're out to, all them on cycles and
or ten on cycles. So I do agree with you
on that it gives them a chance to another paycheck.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
That's great.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
I do actually agree with what you're saying about the
opportunity to renegotiate and to if they're on one year
conference kind of gives a little bit of restricted free
agency action and I first right of refusal, and I
like it, And if that was actually what was going
to happen, I would say that this is an ideal system,
right because to me, like I've recruited players recently where
(18:30):
I'm explaining why our agency is the best in this
business by every single metric imaginable and my own opinion.
But they'll say, well, this other agent came and said,
you know, this school in the Big twelve has a
million for me already, And I'm like, all right, cool,
what's your point. I know that school too, well, you
got to bring me offers. If I'm not doing that,
I'm not calling teams mid season to offer a kid
(18:52):
on another team mid season.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
I don't even mind. I'm the best in the world
when I do. I don't even.
Speaker 4 (19:00):
Rawl some college kid with some offer. No, if you
hired me when the portal, let's get to work. I'm
gonnaets you pay. You're gonna get millions of dollars. But
if you want someone to you know, subvert the integrity
of the eco system we have.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
And then go for it. But that's my point is done.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
I would love at the end of the season if
we had like a two week three week period where
we're just renegotiating with their current schools before we decide
for entering the portal, because right now it's messy right
being talk to coaches well, gates are happening to see
if they're extending the deal, what it's going to be.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
I would love if that was the case.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
But the reality is, even with these new rules, the
net bell rings and the last game of the season, people
are going to be scrambling to recruit new players.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
And it is all to the distinction between mid major
and high major.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
Right there is like a trickle down you any portal,
you're not going to be as aggressive as some of
the high majors the first two weeks because you're gonna
have to wait for some of those kids who thought
they were going to high major to realize their phone
is not ringing from the SEC and I, oh, Green
Bay call look great right now. So there is a
primary market, secondary market, tertiary market, and really that primary
(20:10):
high major.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Market that's going to happen.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
Before the portal actually opens. But the last thing I'll
say on this point, we haven't gotten the point of wide.
It's oppressive, and it is by shortening the window of
forty five to thirty to fifteen days. Here's what effectively does.
It traps players in situations they can't get out of
where coaches can lie through their teeth and have no repercuptions.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Here's what that means.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
In a forty five day So, first off, when people
saw that to a fifteen day portal window, some people
thought that meant to enter the portal and commit to
a school, and scientist school it all had happened in
fifteen days, that would be ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
No, it's just to put your name. But what happens
then is in a.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Forty five day window to put your name in even
a thirty day window, people are entering and committing to schools,
and then kids on those teams are saying, oh, I'm
the backup because they just got this guy.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
And I'm not going to play it cool.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Let the end of the portal, right, it gives time
for players to see the moves.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
You're explaining it very well to me.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Okay, so let me explain to people who may be
a little bit more lay person. Right, So again your assumption,
and I do believe this happens, which is, hey, you
come in, you meet like, hey, dude, we want you back.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
All right, what's the role, what's the money? Right?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
You talk about all those things, here's what we think,
blah blah blah blah blah, and then all of a sudden,
the coach starts recruiting other guys at your spot and
you're like, yo, now I want to get in the portal.
And if the kid commits in the portal in day
fourteen or day fifteen, you're screwed. Can't get in the portal. Correct, understood, Okay.
(21:56):
But there's the other side to it, which is like
if it's open forty five days, and what happens with
these guys is some guys will wait and see what's what,
And then all of a sudden, somebody's got some money
left and you're a day forty, you know, and you
had planned on having that kid back, but he's not
(22:17):
on campus or whatever, and he's like, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Then he's like, you know what I.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Can get twenty grand more, thirty grand more, forty grand more,
five grand more, or just a better situation they can
leave like it is a game of cat mouse.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
And I don't know.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I mean, I just don't know if there's a perfect system.
And I think you're paying the picture of all of
us being these nefarious dudes who who work behind the
back of players, And I just again, I think that
one of the things, the good things that money brings
is you have to be honest with somebody with their role,
(22:57):
because you're gonna be honest with them with their role
based upon how much money they're making.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Right, So I mean, again.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
What do you do if you want a kid to stay,
you offer him what he's making or a little bit
more if you're like, we'd like.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
You to stay.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
But if you really want to say, now you're going
way up in money, and if you want them to leave,
you go, hey, dude, we love you, but there's no
money for you next year. Do whatever you want, and
then they go into the portal like it's really that simple, right.
So I just I understand what you're saying, but I
think you're guarding against a very small percentage because most
teams prefer to keep their guys. If they offer to
(23:32):
keep their guys, they are important, and you can tell
where you fall in the kind of chain of command
or in the total pool based on how much money
you're making anyway, And so once you re sign your
starting small forward and you bump them up to where
he's one of your top pay guys, you're not going
to bring in somebody off the street.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
It's not it's the reality of it.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Plus, those kids aren't going to go like, well, you
already have a kid there at my spot. Unless you're
gonna pay me two x of what he's making, then
I know I'll play.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Well, no, everything.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
I rarely I think I know everything about this business.
And I think twice already on this, on this in
this episode, you brought points that are maybe rethink points,
and I think you are making good points here that
I always think from the player perspective.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Yeah, yeah, if you are, you're gonna screw my guy.
And honestly, it's not happening. My guys. Is my guys
that have leverage because they got meat.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
So no one's screwing my guys because I can drop
the hammer on you any fucking day, excuse my language. Yeah,
but it's really the kids who don't have an agency
like we who are trusting dear coach, and coaches like, oh, well,
here's twenty five thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Because you're you know, we love you. This is the
most we got. And then he's like, oh, great coach.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
And then they go and bring a guy this position
for one hundred thousand dollars two weeks later and he
realizes he's a back up.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
It's nothing you do. But it is if that kid
that I worry about.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
But it is a small percentage though the Torres says,
we save one life, you.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Save the world. So you know, I'm worried about each
of these kids, even if they're not my clients. I'm worried.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Again, My clients are good, they're protected, they got they
got a killer swam behind them. But okay, but to
your point, you're right. It does protect coaches in a
way because you we.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Got to have some level of protection and.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
You experienced this firsthand.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
Right, this happens where And I'll say, I try with
my clients because I care about the coaches.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
I try to be that layer of protection.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Like I had a guy this year who signed a
seven figure deal and then and it was living in
a dream and then a few weeks later at school
back channel to them, Hey, we've got more seven more
seven figures plus a few more sixes. I want to
look at this, And I said, no, dude, you committed
to the school. They give me millions of dollars. There
(25:46):
are over a million dollars they're building. This coach is
building his season around you, and you're going to repay
him by saying I'm going to screw you over because
someone offered me an ACTU.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
One hundred grand. No, we're not doing that. I'm not
doing that. We committed this person. We're stick to our commitment.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
I think it's okay for a guy to flip a commitment,
and there are material changes in circumstances if they've been
lied to, right they they say, hey, you're gonna be
the high paid guard on the team, and the next
thing you know to is later they pay another guard more. Well,
you lied, so now I get to change. But if
the school you commit to upholds everything that they've said
and you just want more money elsewhere, you don't get
the flipic commitment.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
But in the NBA, we have guardrails to prevent to
work through these things.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Right in the NBA, even someone in FEBA as well,
Like there's systems to protect against.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
And this goes back to what we're talking about before
the employees.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
You're saying no one wants Everyone wants to be employees,
but no one wants to be get fired mid season.
I've had guys in the NBA get fired mid season
who are employees, and that's fine.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
And I on other guys who signed guaranteed contracts because
they have more leverage and they can't be fire mid season.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
So in any situation where there's employees, there's some employees
who can be fire mid season and others who can't,
and that becomes part of the problem. Now that'll be
even more complicated here because you're in a semester, you're
at school. You know what, if they can sign as
a semester, why not you can cut as a semester.
If that's the system we're creating, I'm cool with that.
We just need a freaking system. And when I said
we need a freaking system, a lot of people are
(27:09):
getting mad and yelling at the win. They're yelling off
into the void, They're yelling at God. We need a system.
Who's in charge of it, who's gonna make the systems.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
We have a system.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I'm with you, like I just we have a system.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Just deal with it.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
You know, build a team, do the best you can,
and you know you're gonna hit some, you're gonna miss some,
and you try and have a try to have a
good hit rate.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
And you know our thing is, hey, we.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Were not We're probably not gonna play the most, but
you're gonna get every penny.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
We promise it.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
And you know this is a this is a league
where you get great opportunity. Okay, that brings me to
There's a couple of things. The Some have a loyalty contract,
some have just a multi year contract, especially some of
the top end of twenty twenty six high school seniors
(28:01):
I believe are signing multi year deals. And the idea
behind it for the high major is nobody wants to
develop a player for somebody else, Like, yeah, hey, I
worked with him all year long as a red shirt
or as a freshman. Only two now when he's really
ready to play, Now he's playing for somebody else, Why
would I pay him a bunch of money. So this
(28:22):
is really more the high end freshmen who are on
that boardline of will they play, will they read shirt.
Whatever doesn't matter. They're staying in the program. And we're
not only investing you in your one, we're investing you
in year two. Here's the question from the coach to
the agent, which is will they hold up?
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Because in order to have a second year, you got
to have a buy out.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
And if the kid doesn't like it, or doesn't like
how he's being developed or like, what the Because the
problem with it is, as you know, teams change, coaches
change assistant coaches will change out a lot from year
to year. But teams, if you sign a two year deal,
you may have eight nine new teammates. The second year
you may not like it. So in order to get
(29:04):
out of that second year, there has to be some
sort of buyout. Do you think the second year holds
not just in holding players there, but in standing up
in court in terms of the buyout?
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Absolutely, the question becomes as the school, I want to pursue.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
It in court, right, and and I'll just tell you, okay,
so this is a real discussion, right, is that most
athletic directors don't want to because they think it makes
them look bad and no one will want to go
to your school. My perspective on it is that's bullshit. Okay,
(29:40):
kids want to go where they're gonna they're not gonna
go like, well, you know, you pursued Jimmy, who you
wanted to head under contract, and now you're pursuing me
and giving They're still gonna make their decision based upon themselves,
not what you did with Jimmy.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, I agree that I'm
at the same thought or our clients have. I'm not
paying commissions and.
Speaker 4 (30:00):
Then it's like, I'm not going to sue you even
though you owe me, you know, twenty thousand dollars, because
I don't want my agency to have headlines that we're
suing a.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Player and this doesn't look good, right.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
But I ended that You're right, Yes, it's the same thing.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
It's like it's it's the people are thinking about what's
best for them, not what happened to somebody else.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
It's a fair point.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
I think I'm as soft and I don't like to
get into conflict with players.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
But anyway, it's either here. You know.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
What I want to say about the specific instance you've
discussed of multiyear conflicts and buyouts is there's a distinction
that's really really important that gets missed the nuance of
this distinction when we're having internet discourse about these these
deals like the kid at Washington State or the quarterback
(30:45):
in Tennessee, these biop deals. If a kid and or
his representation and or understand on the front end that
they are signing a contract with a buyo, and they
representation has an opportunity to read that contract and they
agree to it, and.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
They are responsible for upholding everything in that contract.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
Okay, if the contract says it's one hundred thousand dollars
and if you transfer, you owe us twenty million dollars,
and the representation reason tells them get to sign it. Yeah,
they're not leaving unless they pay the twenty million dollars.
And that's fair because that's why you.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
High representation, that's why they negotiate. You read the contract,
you sign it. Now.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
My problem is when guys don't have good representation, or
when coaches tell guys not to have a nation and
they sneak these clauses in and kids don't know what
they're signing.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Their nineteen twenty twenty one year old kids. They're trusting
their coach. They might not have an agent. They don't
know what they're signing. They only find out later that
there was a buyout. So I'll give you an example.
I have a player at an SEC school and.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
We agree to a number, a good six figure number,
mid six stigures, and I get the contract and I
read it and it says that if he were to
enter the transfer portal next year, there's a callback of fifty.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
Percent of this year's runnings. Okay, so that's the same thing,
five hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
See, and here's the portal. Then they have to pay
back two fifty from last year. This isn't the multi
year deal. This is a one year deal that basically
prevents it from leaving.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Us get to pay back. I read the fine friends
who was.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Kind of convoluted, and I went back to that coach
and I said, if you don't tell your collective to
fix this right now, I'm never answering your calls again.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
I'm never sading a player to your school. This is corrupt,
and they fix it.
Speaker 4 (32:30):
But there's other players at that SEC school that don't
realize they didn't have me as an agent. They don't
know that they transfer, they have to pay back half
the money. That's where it's wrong. That's where it's on
after the hole. That's where it's exploitative. But as long
as you have a representative that's reading that contract and says, hey,
it's this many years and if you leave, it's this
amount of money, and we all agree. Look, I have
a kid, and I'm I'm rambling here, but like I
(32:50):
had a kid in Europe recently who was making like
thirty thousands a European agent. You're making like thirty thousand
dollars a year with a three hundred thousand dollars Vio
got a seven bigger deal in the States.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
To pay the buyout right, they were paying to develop him. Yeah,
the salary was thirty thous they're paying to develop, and
they development to the point that it's worth a lot of.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Money to an acc school rate. Okay, So there are
insts or bots are fair. There are instances where for
is okay, I'll happily do a multi year deal with
a big buyout because they're giving you a platform, you're developing,
and you're investing in.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
I'm great with that.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
If I was a low major, It's funny people were
acting like these like multi year deals in buyouts are
like innovative. Four years ago when NIL started, I was
telling you, guys, look at Europe.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Look how they build their things, Look how they build
their programs.
Speaker 4 (33:35):
He signed young eighteen year olds to four year deals
with increasing pay and a massive buyout. If you develop them,
and that's how you replenish your coffers and you build
a program.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
And I was running a low major program. That's what
I would do if I was outside.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
A few eighteen year olds paying a little over market
value with a big buyout, develop them and then bless
them when they move on.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
It's not that crazy. We've been doing it in Europe
for soccer or basketball for decades, and that's my piece.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Okay, let me ask you. We talked about Europe. Okay,
what about loaning players? And I bring it up because
at our level, right you sit there and go, hey,
there's a young guy who won't play for two years there,
but if he comes to us, he will. And again
this goes back hand in hand with the three four
(34:25):
year contract idea.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
To even the big boys.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
You bring in a player, but you're like, hey, I
want him to play right away, but I want to
maintain his rights at the end. Of the year and
you can handpick who and where he plays for. Right,
it's something that they do. Everybody does in Europe. Right,
you pick the country and whether it's Red Star or partisan.
They own the rights to all the best young players,
(34:48):
and then they loan them out to whatever division wants
to use them as well as their junior team. Right
they want they're ready for first division. They come up
to first division or second division or whatever. How far
from that are we.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
I'm excited for this to happen. This is gonna be
perfect when it's already. There have been some situations where
we already are trying to attempt something like this, where
it's like, oh.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I'm a gentleman's agreement.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
Yeah, I'm a major head coach. My assistant just got
this a major job. Let's place him here to develop him,
and he's gonna send him this way. But contractually it's
so hard to pull off safely because you can send
that kid there and then they can still just be like,
all right, thanks for the money, I'm gonna go wherever
I want. It's so hard to tie that in contractually,
and I'm my team is working on ways to figure
(35:36):
this out, but it's gonna be easiest when there's a
geographic similarity to contracts and be tied to geography. Money
can come to state state state school systems. Like, there's
a way to pull it off, and we're gonna figure
it out. And I'm excited for that day because it's
gonna be good for the game. You can get your
University of Wisconsin degree, you can stay within the system.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
The credits are all gonna transfer.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
You gonna get your money that you get to develop
and he is to play on the court and Frank Convincy.
I talked to my boyfriend the other day and he
said he's like, yeah, I was coming out today.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
I would have got on Wisconsin.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
I would have got in Green mayor Milwaukee for two
years and transfer of Wisconsin and then player of the year.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Okay, last one do you when you sign a player? Okay, Now,
I'm only doing this because media broadcasting agents have these
claws in the contract. I don't know about basketball agents
and specifically an il agents whether or not whether or
not they have it, which is this, if I get
(36:39):
you a job at a at a school, power for school. Okay,
Dan Pooman and Weave get you this job. Okay, at
the end of the year, you choose to leave, they
fire you, but you stay at whatever power for school.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Do you still get your percentage?
Speaker 2 (37:04):
And some agents have a deal where no matter where
you go your next contract, they get a piece of
more often when you stay than if it's a new job,
but they still retain your rights. How long do you
retain the rights to the player contractually even after they
fire you.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
This is a great question, and we're dealing with this
right now. This is a big topic of discussion in
our office. Is there's a player who wants to sign
with us, who wants us to forfeit our renewal rights
as part of signing, which I don't think is fair.
I think I want to be paid for work I do. Right,
So I get you to a school, and I find
(37:49):
the school and negotiate the deal. I identify the school,
I guide you there, and you get there and you
play really well.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
You can't come to me and be like, hey, thanks
for all your hard work.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
I'm going to stay here for two more years, but
I'm going to fire you and not.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Paying for the work you already did to me.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
If I'm identifying opportunity to bring you the opportunity to
negotiating the opportunity to get it either we are owed
to our commission for the extent of the time that
you have the opportunity at that place. Right, it's renewals, right,
And that's that's the big crops of the conversation here
is like, yeah, again, if I send someone to let's say,
you wouldn't see Wilmington for fifty K, and they're fresh
(38:26):
and they do great, and then the next year if
you moment I was playing four hundred, they don't get to.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Fire me and say, hey, thanks, thanks for bring the opportunity.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
I'm going to keep my you know, Okay, that I
think we can all agree on.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
But then here's where it gets complicated. Now on the
other end of.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
The spectrum, we can, but there's also okay, and you've
experienced this. You get a guy a deal, he then
fires you shortly thereafter, and then they get to the
point to where they want to stay and get renewed
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
And I just again, I think.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
When he fighters me, what matters. I've brought you that
opportunity with that program, and I hand.
Speaker 5 (39:03):
Picked is that in your contract renewals and exceptions Okay,
if it's in the again, I'm I'm with you, I
would do the I view it as the exact same
thing as you were talking about UH coaches and clauses
in the contract, and if your agent has actually read
it right like you should, this is probably like a
(39:24):
PSA to.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
To any of the players, which is, hey, even if
you any contract you signed, you should have a lawyer
look it over, even if it's the contract with a
lawyer to represent you in NIL or with Weave that
has lawyers to represent you in NIL, have a third
party look at the contract because you don't know what
contract law is. A contract lawyer does look at it. Again,
(39:47):
if it's important to you. Now you're being a professional.
You got to do professional things. What I where I
would meet you with this new player, which is again,
if I'm telling the kid, hey, if you really want
to work with Weave but you don't want to give
up the whatever centers you're charging, that too is negotiable, right,
Everything is negotiable.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Again.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
You may not want to come down off your number
and they may not want to pay it, and that's okay.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
We shake hands and we go our separate ways.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
But my thing is again, if it's in the contract,
you gotta live up the contract.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
That's the big thing.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
That's the big frustrating thing for coaches, and for coaches especially,
it's like, hey, we're all held to our contracts and
yet you know, administrators don't want to pursue things on
contracts or we have claws and contracts.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Again, if we're gonna be adults and we're gonna.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
It's it's some sort of quasi employment and you're gonna
be a professional, it's got to be held in professional manner.
And that includes the relationship between agent and player. If
you're gonna do a handshake deal that that's on you
as an agent, or that's on you as a player.
But if you're gonna do actual contract, whatever is in
that contract, you have to abide by or there's going
(40:55):
to be a clause for if you break that contract,
a fee you have to pay or a portion of
the feed yet paid for a period of time.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:03):
Yeah, readouts in your contract and understand senior contract. And
we tried with our contracts to be as fair as possible.
Like for us again, it's like I don't do contracts
like some agents do.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
Have like I own your rights for four years, and even.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
If you fired me in the year one, you have
to pay me for three years of commissions.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
That some certain I'm not doing that.
Speaker 4 (41:22):
But the hardest situation, and trying to be ethical, there's
always blind spots.
Speaker 3 (41:26):
The hardest situations I've been in is when you work
really hard.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
To get some of that initial opportunity and you bust
your butt for a deal for no money, and then
they blow up and then they're like, hey, thanks for
doing the hard work. Now I'm hitting the portal and
I'm not paying you anything. It's like I had a
kid two years ago. I knew this kid was kind
of had some character issues. Don't come on anyway. Got
him as fresh.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Than your deal.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
He barely played, coach hated him, had all these problems.
The next portal was a nightmare. Everyone knew this guy
character issues. But I found on the spot for sixty
thousand dollars, who was willing to give him a chance,
who I went to bat with the coach who worked
it out. I talked to this kid all season and
was in his corner, and my commission was very small,
(42:12):
and he blows up at this place making sixty k
and then fires me.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
And enters the portal with someone else that makes over a.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Million dollars this year, and I'm like, I did two
years of work to make close to nothing was in
your corner, and then when you hit it big, Now
I lost my opportunity to capture them on my work.
Speaker 3 (42:32):
And that's part of the game. And it's like, I
accept it.
Speaker 4 (42:35):
I should have known the kid had character issues and
he's gonna probably screw me at some point. I thought
I could help mentor him and get him to a
better place. But like, those are the hard ones. And
that's why it's like people, no one wants to care
about agents rights. No one cares about me and my
family and my staff who were working. I'm working fifteen
hour days every single day now till June. I get
(42:56):
Shabbat off for Kusham. We have a few hours of Shabbat.
Other than that, I'm working fifteen hour days. When I
think fifteen hour days, I mean I schedule fifteen minutes
when I have to use the bathroom every day.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
I can't just be like, oh, I got these baths.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
No, every moment of every one of my days, the
schedule from now until June, I'm busting my butt for
my staff and my and my and my clients. No
one cares about my rights. No one cared for my commission,
No one cared to my family. No one cares that
I'm guys with my staff with kids, and they're out
here grinding their tail off to support these these athletes
and trying to guide them, help the better people, help
(43:29):
them in better lives, help them find success and joy
in basketball. So yeah, when so the kid fires us
right before the portally loses a six figure commission, no
one's crying about it. So I don't expect anyone to care.
But my point is that like we are providing in service,
we areguing a job. We are honest and have integrity
what we do, and like sometimes we deserve to get
paid for that, and sometimes that means extensions and renewals.
(43:51):
When I got to an opportunity and you re up
with that school, that you're not going to stab me in.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
The back, No, listen.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
I think it's it's one of the things which is
brutally unfair. I think college basketball coaches and NIL agents
both were cast in this shat like we're basically slightly
above Amiba, slightly below that of used car salesman, and
it's like hold on now, you know, and people will
(44:18):
question your fees again. If I was a player, I
would negotiate the fee. Everything again is negotiable. But whatever
the fee is is because it's like again, people don't
understand that guys can walk.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
From agents, right, they just do. You know.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
It's like the old and you know this from NBA
guys that you've had, right, the last thing you want
is a second round pick, right, because you bust your ass.
And sometimes the second round pick is you had favors
to get guys workouts, and it's sort of a favor
to get him drafted. Then he get him drafted, and
then he immediately fires you because he thinks he was
a late first round pick, you know, and he's a
(44:57):
sackon round and he's really a secon round pick where
he goes undraft or whatever, and it's your fault, Like, no,
it's not my fault. I got you seventeen workouts and
I personally got you drafted in the second round, and
then you summarily fired me only to play in the NBA.
Stick in the NBA, hire a new agent, and then
he ends up getting all the glory with them. I'm
speaking your language, am I not?
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (45:17):
I had a player once who had he was with
another agent, had a zero workhouse. I told him sign
with me for ten days, so I'll get you some workhouse.
I end up getting five workhouts and I got a
promise from one of those teams to draft him. They
draft him in the second round, guaranteed the contract, and
then he fires me because his homie sees from back
(45:41):
in the day, got a job with the agency that
he fired in the first place to come with me.
I did such a good job that I got him
aud NBA roster became so valuable as his friend could
get a.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Job off his name, and I was like, you know what.
Speaker 4 (45:54):
I went for three months, I got the commission on
a two year contract, and God blessed him.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
That was his only contract he got.
Speaker 4 (46:00):
But but yeah, sometimes you do such a good job
getting a guy in the draft that their friends get
jobs and take them from you.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
Sometimes, yeah, you think that.
Speaker 4 (46:08):
You did an amazing job getting a guy a two way,
and they think that they should have they should have
gotten the first round pick. Sometimes you do such a
good job of the guy and million dollars and.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
They think they should get two and you know when
that happens. But you know what happened to me.
Speaker 4 (46:22):
Also this week, I got a text out of the blue,
out of the blue, A good player, a good college player.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
Hey, Dan, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
If you know me.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
I'm blank, Yes, I know you.
Speaker 4 (46:33):
I talked to this player in this player who was
my teammate and Juco and my teammate now and I
need a new agent, and they both said that you're
the best and you change their life. And I was
wondering you could be open to working with me. I
got that text and I sent it to my staff.
I was like, this is why we do it.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
The fact that we're not asking guys to recruit for us.
Speaker 4 (46:55):
They're so happy with the experience of having the schools
we pick with them, and they're telling their team mates, Hey,
you got to talk to my god Dan, he's the best.
That gives me strength, that's looking tooment through the fifteen
hour days. When I see my clients with families and
kids and they're opening retirement accounts in college, saving these
counts with their kids.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
We're doing this thing. That's what keeps me in it.
And yes, getting.
Speaker 4 (47:19):
Fired is part of the job, and I still it's
like emotionally artous.
Speaker 3 (47:24):
When it happens, I'm still like, what did I do wrong?
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Well?
Speaker 3 (47:27):
I thought this person loved me. I thought they're my family.
But it happens.
Speaker 4 (47:30):
Just like guys enter the transfer portal, they enter the
Asian portal, it happens accepted. I've gotten, I've gotten a
little thicker skinned through my years doing this. I've gotten
adult of it. But I'm never by my heart. I'm
not eating the grnched. My heart will never be fully parted.
And I still love these people that I work with,
and it's still hurts.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
It's honestly, it's no different than as a coach, where
you sign a kid and you truly believe in the
kid and you tell the kid how it's going to be.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
It's gonna be up and down.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
It's early your first year, your freshman, or it's the
first year of Vision one or whatever, like it's a
long process. S no coach, I'm in, you know, I'm whatever.
And then and of the year they come in and
you're talking about renewing, they're like, yeah, I'm an end
of the portal. It's the same thing, like I still
love you, I greatly disagree with what you're doing, and yeah,
(48:15):
and then you and then you watch him play for
other people, and you're like, should I cheer for this kid?
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Should I not cheer for this kid? I really like him? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (48:23):
So I've had guys that I did their just ham
multiple times for I did their college transfer. Yeah, and
then blow up and go with a big NBA agency,
And I'm watching him at the draft and I'm like, like,
there's one specific guy who got drafted in the first
round two years ago where he really wanted to go
to another school and I convinced him to go to
this school and he got drafted in the first off.
(48:44):
So I'm watching the draft, I'm like, yeah, I told
you where to go to school. I told you that.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
Yeah, I doesn't know your Dan knows.
Speaker 4 (48:52):
But then I'm seeing another agent I five him and
cry and I'm like, no, I grind him with him
to get here.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
You just got to go to the I did the
hard work.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
But it's okay, no question, no question.
Speaker 4 (49:04):
I'm still happy for them, And I still get to
tell recruits that I've had more negotiating, more transfers who
led your draft picks than anybody else died multiple There's
many transfers that I was behind who are now in
the NBA that I said.
Speaker 3 (49:18):
I'll leave you on one great quote. I use this
all the time. Chris Beard says to.
Speaker 4 (49:23):
Me when you were at the Final Four with my Airbnb.
He says, damn, how many NBA players are there in
the transfer portal?
Speaker 3 (49:31):
I said, no, I don't know, maybe fives.
Speaker 4 (49:33):
I said, Dan, there's none because if they were NBA players, they'd.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Be they'd be in the NBA.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
Not the transfer portal.
Speaker 4 (49:40):
They said they could become a NBA players if you
use the portal or the right place you can develop into.
Speaker 3 (49:45):
But if you're an NBA player, you'd be in the draft.
We're going to be in the portal. So when I
look at my track record, I've.
Speaker 4 (49:50):
Had like a lot of dudes to get drafted after
I did their transfer. Like, I'm really proud of that work.
But like I said, sometimes you such a good job that.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Rich Paul falls and hook and you know, someday, someday
people will say that about me. But for now, you know,
I run college.
Speaker 4 (50:09):
He runs the NBA is what it is, and we'll
you know, I'm fine with that for now.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
For now.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Maybe next time we'll talk about his podcast and the
trades that he proposed involving players around his clients and
how I pissed pretty much everybody off.
Speaker 1 (50:26):
But that's a different time for a different story.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
In the meantime, it's the only place you can get
a real conversation between the biggest nil agent and college
basketball and a sitting di Vision one men's head basketball coach.
He's the best and shabatchalom. Thanks for joining me. Talk
to you next week. All right, that's it for this
edition of All Ball in Doug Gottlieb Show. Feet Remember
(50:52):
if you're getting the new Doug Gottlieb Show as we
continue to morph inform these things, I think you'll love
the content. Remember this is about content, it's not about
any one thing. We tell stories with so many of
our college basketball friends and coaches, and we do the
same thing and we'll update you on stories of the
week with some of my guests weekly here on the pod.
(51:15):
So just keep it here in the feed, make sure
you keep it in your queue, tell your friends that
put it in your queue, and we truly appreciate you
listening and sticking with us.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
Oh no, yeah, By the way.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
Think of the Phoenix as we travel to Youngstown, Ohio,
take on the Penguins on Thursday, and take on the
defending Horizon League Conference and tournament champion Colonials on Saturday.
Never hurts to have just an extra prayer and an
extra thought on our side.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
We appreciate you listening. I'm Doug out leave. This is
all ball.
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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