Coach Gottlieb explains the difference between lazy myths NBA haters rely on and the reality of the NBA product, and explains why the media swarm following Patriots HC Mike Vrabel and with former Athletic Reporter Diana Russini. poolside by paparazzi represents a point of no return in sports media coverage.
Then, he’s joined by long time NBA Insider - and author of Coachable - Ric Bucher discusses how the Giannis/Bucks drama could end, why NBA player backlash against the 65-game rule to qualify for postseason awards, and the overall effects of European players flooding the college basketball market, and what Steph and LeBron’s ‘last dance’ scenarios could look like.
Subscribe NOW to get all the latest Doug Gottlieb Show Podcasts and exclusive original content!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
What up?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome in? This is the Doug Gottlieb Show. You know,
I was, I was watching the play in games and
it was only the The first playing game that I
watched was earlier, earlier this week, as the Hornets won
on the last second shot at home against the Miami Heat.
(00:31):
And it dawned on me, actually, when I saw that
that game was coming up at night, that I had
only watched one full NBA game the entire season. And
I understand that. You know, if you're listening to this
or watching this in Wisconsin and you're like, well, I
watched Bucks games rule in the year before they got bad,
or you know, if you're you know we're on nationally,
(00:52):
or you pick it up, you're like, yeah, I watched
my own team, or I'll I checked it checked up
on Cooper Flag to see how he did. Maybe your
Conkainipple guy, and you're like, I watch more Hornets basketball
now than I ever have in my life. These are
all reasonable. For some reason, people acting like it's a
badge of honor that I don't watch the NBA anymore now.
(01:13):
I don't watch it only because well, I'm a college
basketball coach and I just I try to prioritize that
things are important to me, and those the NBA doesn't
affect my livelihood. Now you can pick up a set,
play a style. A lot of the things that we
do at Green Bay are actually NBA things. The problem
with it is that once you get to the playoffs,
(01:35):
all the pretty sets sort of go away because there's
so much grabbing and holding and it's a different sport.
And that's really one what I wanted to hone in on.
I understand there's negativity towards the NBA because guys don't
play eighty two games, or it feels like they don't
play eighty two games anymore. I understand that the tanking
leads you to not want to watch regular season games.
(01:55):
I get that, And there have been years and years
and years of dominance from you know, one or two
clubs in a given year where you're like, do I
really want to watch these games? Some people want to
throw in, you know, they don't like the politics of
the league or or the way basketball is played. I
(02:15):
always find it funny that you have the common fan
says the NBA shoots too many three point shots. Then
you watch the common fan go and play basketball and
they shoot too many three point shots, only they're not
actually good at it. NBA players are incredible at it.
If we're being honest, and I always am, the NBA
(02:37):
is more skilled than it's ever been. Those guys shoot better,
dribble better, pass better, they use better angles, better spacing
than they ever have. It's the best coached basketball in
the world. And you might sit there and go like, no,
it's not. They don't play defense. When you say that
to people who know basketball, you sound like a bit
of a dumb dumb you do. They actually play very
(02:57):
good defense, the ones that play. Because you can't play defense,
you don't play. But it's really hard to play defense
when the other guy you're guarding is so unbelievably talented,
and based upon how it's officiated in the regular season,
you can't make nearly as much contact. All the benefits
of officiating seem to go to the offense. Right. The
(03:20):
problem with if you have all of those issues politics,
game style wise, game is called and too soft a
manner or whatever, you know, the games are a blowout.
There's a disparity between the haves and the have nots.
Tanking guys not playing any two games all of those
arguments go out the window in the playoffs, right because
(03:43):
now you can't tank. You're already in the playoffs, so
everybody plays. You're trying to play as hard as you
possibly can play. And if you didn't like the finesse
of the regular season, the postseason is completely different. It's
a wrestling match, maybe even too much so. So this
is the honest basketball take. Players are more skilled, many
(04:04):
of them lack the feel of the older and now
former era players feel. By that, I mean, when we
grew up, we played basketball all the time, played basketball
the friends. We played basketball at a park, we played
basketball at a gym, we played pickup basketball. Now most
of these guys have grown up playing in the AAU
(04:26):
or even in when you play overseas, in the junior
club circuit and in the States, everybody has a trainer,
so it's if there's a cone in the gym, they're
amazing putting nine other guys in the court, and sometimes
they don't know what to do. And it's those who
assimilate to real basketball that have the most success. But
even with that, there's still the background of they can
(04:48):
kind of sometimes play as if they're playing one on
one on an island, and there's eight other guys out
there on the basketball floor. I watched one NBA game
in the regular season and it wasn't a good one.
I watched two playing games and they were great. Why
because all of the negativity of the NBA goes away
(05:08):
when the playoffs start. So Diana Rassini and Mike Rabel
sitting head coach and NFL insider. I don't know what
happened between the two. I know that she has several
(05:31):
times come out and denied any sort of nefarious conduct.
So two has Vrabel, and yet the world has had
a ton of fun at their and their family's expense.
And I just we have changed as a society, and
I want to make sure that people understand it's not
(05:53):
always for the better. Again, if that was my wife,
I would be pissed. I would demand an explanation. That
was my husband, would be pissed. I would demand an explanation.
I don't know the level of their friendship. I don't
know what the spouses do. I don't know any of that.
But when we've gotten to the point of exposing people's
(06:17):
personal lives, I think we've crossed over into something now
in fairness this point. This crossover started in politics and
then moved on into sports long ago. I started in
politics with Bill Clinton and what he was doing in
the White House, and the IV did not have right.
(06:38):
We were all watching it when I was a kid.
I remember watching it and that was a sea change.
Because the stories of John F. Kennedy are almost that
of hero in nature. Tiger Woods has been a sports
and regular just iconic figure in both eras right. He
(07:01):
came up with the Michael Jordan's and Charles Barklay's and
guys having a really good time and going into the
private room in Vegas and smoking cigars and who knows
what goes on in there, only to have his entire
life exposed because of what took place with his ex wife. Now,
some of the stuff with his ex wife, it's not
(07:22):
that people were trying to track it down. It was
he was in a car crash. He was injured, and
like so many other scandals, it started with a car crash.
It started with something. I mean, I don't know how
many people know this. Michigan's basketball program post fab five
was brought down by the NCA because there was a
car crash. Robert Trailor was their star Power Forward. He
(07:44):
was driving a recruit matteen Cleeves, who was set to
go to Michigan to the casinos they weren't supposed to
go to in Toronto and the Ford Explorer they were
driving in rolled and turned out that the car belonged
to the late Robert Trailor's grandma, who was in a wheelchair.
When the research has done, how can she pay for
(08:04):
a car in the wheelchair? It then brought down. So
this has happened before. But the point was that for
fifty years, the media ignored what you were doing in
your personal life, only to hyper focus or focus on
your professional life. That has changed. It did start with politics,
It has been in sports, and now we're getting to
(08:27):
the sports insider industry and somebody clearly tip them off.
It doesn't make their behavior, if it was nefarious or
even just optically looks bad, doesn't make it okay. But
our insatiable need for it, the fact that we I'll
be the first one to point out I'm just as
guilty as anybody. If TMZ pops up and has a
(08:48):
picture of somebody, I click on it. I want to
see it because I take the bait. But now when
I sit with it, I don't feel great about it.
I just don't you are allowed to be human being
and we are flawed. It doesn't mean I don't have
sympathy and empathy for what's going on in their personal
lives and for the fact that if nothing was going on,
it looks really bad and it's going to be hard
(09:10):
to convince anybody otherwise. But don't we all deserve the
chance to have private life, to go and have drinks
with friends, to not be on a cell phone camera
at all times. Because if there's one thing we have
learned from cell phone camera footage, even though it gives
us a real perspective in the moment, it doesn't give
(09:33):
us true perspective. It's one camera at one moment, what
happened before, what happens after, and what happens from a
different side. We can go through timestamps of different social
issues that have been brought out by you know, guy
who gets pulled over by a cop essentially makes it.
(09:54):
Tries to embarrass the cop by demanding his rights to
constantly be upheld when you don't realize what the cop
is going through. Is this really what we want to
do do we really want to follow around every person
and figure out how they do, what they do and
who they do it with. Is that what we've become?
If it is okay, it's going to be exhausting, and
(10:18):
you're going to out some people that didn't do anything
wrong to be out it because you don't know the
context of relationships conversations. My first thought was, well, maybe
they're already split up from their spouse's sidet that I
don't know. In this case, they say they're not. Maybe
everybody knew what was going on. Again, I don't know,
and truthfully I shouldn't care, and neither should you. But
(10:40):
we've crossed over into space and it feels like we're
down this path of no return where nothing is secret
and nothing is private, and nobody has the ability to
have their own life outside of their work. Ask yourself this,
Ask yourself, quite honestly, this is it okay with you?
If somebody followed you around, many of you will say yeah,
(11:02):
And then I say, ever gone home from a bar?
Haven't too many a drink? Ever been sitting at a
bar and a beautiful woman sits next to you and
you talk to her. Imagine if a picture is snapped
at that very moment. Right again, sometimes nefarious behavior does
take place and it will get exposed to the proper people,
(11:24):
but to the entire world. I don't feel great about it.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Do you.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Let's welcome in my man man, Rick Buker. If you
look behind him, if you're watching us on our digital feed,
you can see coachable how the greatest performers reach their
highest potential. It's pretty awesome. It's a new book out
by Rick Buker. Buke. I want to talk NBA with you.
But what gave you the desire to write this new book.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Part of it was seeing my kids go through youth
sports and the experiences they had and the objective of
I felt like it was a very shortsighted objective in
terms of what you were going to get out of sports.
And I felt like sports can teach you lessons that
(12:14):
you can apply for the rest of your life, and
it's about facing challenges and learning how to overcome them.
To me, ultimately, that's probably the most valuable thing I
got out of sports.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
And I didn't see that as.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Being the.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Motive or the objective.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
With not only a lot of athletes, but a lot
of parents and so I wanted to write about my experience,
my kids experience, and the experience most importantly of all
of the great athletes who ended up being champions or
maximizing their potential that they all went through that it wasn't.
(12:54):
I got to find the right team. I got to
find the right coach. I got to find the right program.
Sometimes you're going to be because you need.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
To get better. And how do you do that.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Well, you synthesize what you want to be with someone
else's vision of what you can be. And that, to
me is the definition of being coachable.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Uh it's available now wherever you pick up your books.
Of course you can get to Did you get to
do the where you're the narrator for audio bus? No?
Speaker 4 (13:21):
I did.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
I narrated the introduction and the epilogue, but we we
hired someone to do the full thing.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
I they that's got to be boring as hell. Let's
just be honest, and there's no amount of money that's like,
I don't know, Or you could hire somebody really cool,
like uh, like a Sean Cornray, I mean read a
book coach.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
I it would it wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
I'm nearly and sometimes I had second thoughts as to
whether I should have done it, because this is such
a personal thing to me. Sure doing it for someone else, yeah,
I could see where like that that might be a
bit of a challenge, And but they told me it
would like it's two three days, you're in the studio, and.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, I know, writing a book is arduous enough of
a process.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
You're going to have somebody else do it, Okay, Yeah,
so I get to select who did it.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I noticed you didn't call me.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
I mean, I they gave me a list. You weren't
on it.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
I mean that's such bull crap. I mean, it's like
the It's like the Lebron James, Like I had nothing
to do with him being fired. Yeah, Lebron, if you
wanted to be your coach, he's still your coach.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Wait a minute, you just told me.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
You just told me you would never want to do
something like this, and now you're griping that I never
approached you.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
You know what this is, you, Doug.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
I'd like to be like I've done. I've literally, I
mean this, I've done just about everything in broadcasting. I've
done play by play for basketball've done play by play
on radio for football. I've done sideline for Fox NFL Football.
I've never been a part of an NBA broadcast in
the game, but I've done the draft, I've done obviously
(15:02):
Sports Center blah blah blah blah like you name it.
So I have never written a book, although I need
to at some point, and I've definitely never narrated a book.
So okay, I don't know. I just just just a
just a thought. Okay, let's get to some NBA uh
uh Pilaver as the former commissioner of the NBA, I
(15:23):
used to that was a great word, David Sartin Plaver
just such an awesome words. Start with the honest it's
over right, like they're going to trade him.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Uh, we're all we're eventually going to get there. I've
said this since last trade deadline. Neither side wants to
be the one who is credited with pulling the trigger.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
They wanted to.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Be the other side to say either Giannis has asked
to be traded or the Milwaukee Bucks have decided, you
know that it's time for us to part way. Jannis
wants it on them, they want it on Yanis. And
I think what is revolutionary is if it ultimately comes
(16:08):
to this if it comes to Yannis asking for a trade,
and I think that this will still be slow rolled
until it comes to that. I think in their heart
of hearts, Milwaukee doesn't want to trade him unless they
have to or someone gives them an offer that they
just can't refuse. And of late, we have not seen
(16:30):
that with superstars. So and as long as Yannis doesn't
ask to be traded, doesn't publicly asked to be traded.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Then they're not going.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Then then they still have the opportunity to get the
absolute boat load and then some for him, because it's
going to feel like they're just going and doing it.
What's revolutionary here is is that if Yannis ultimately decides
I want to get out of Milwaukee at any cost,
(17:06):
he will be the first international player to demand to trade,
to publicly demand to trade. And that's that's going to
be a sea change, because one of the values of
getting a Nikola Jokic or up until at this point,
a Janis or even a Luka Dancic is never they
(17:26):
never they never would think about, Oh, like I don't
have the right players around me, I'm not getting enough attention,
you're not paying you know, whatever it is, whatever it
is that I'm not getting as I see myself as
a superstar, I'm going to go someplace else that's just
not in their DNA, and Yannis would be breaking the
(17:47):
seal on that, and I'd be and as we know,
same with Lebron James in the Summer of Lebron. Like
once a player crosses a threshold and says, oh, oh, it's.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Not so bad.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
On the other side, I'm more empowered, then everybody else
begins to feel like I can do the same thing.
Lebron did it first, and then everybody else is like, oh,
not only do I want to be traded, but I
want you to go acquire the guys that I want
to play with. Gianness would be creating the same template
I think for international players.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
That said is going to be traded. I mean just
doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Otherwise I understood understand, well, it doesn't make any sense
for what Giannis wants to do. It makes all the
sense in the world from Milwaukee.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
It does. Sure, what can they legitimately put around him
next year? And how competitive can.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
They be that It's not about that.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
It's it's from a fromicts business standpoint. I'm not talking
about competitively I'm talking about. You can sell tickets, you
can steal corporate corporate sponsorships. You can sell Hope more
than anything for season ticket sales, for the desire to
see Yannis. So as long as I have that, anything else,
(19:06):
anything else, I'm gonna get. That's a roll of the dice.
Gianness is a proven commodity. Whatever package I get, it's
gonna be draft picked.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
I can sell Hope for a certain period of time.
But Yannis is from a business standpoint, he's the face
of your team. He's your marketing dream. So are they
gonna win anything?
Speaker 4 (19:29):
No, not.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
You know, it's gonna take two or three years, and
then it's gonna be deft in terms of what they
do with John Horst does, but in terms of where
Milwaukee is, makes far more sense to keep him.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
The sixty five game rule, Yeah, the sixty five game
rule for people who don't know, in order to win
a postseason award of any kind, you've got to play
at least sixty five games. And NBA players, current NBA
players don't like this rule. Now, if you look at
the math, you're like, wait a second, there's eighty two games,
(20:05):
and now they don't want to play sixty five. Okay,
let me start with and I've done this before, but
I'm going to do it again. There will be no
elimination of basketball games. Okay. This is not like a
like a concert tour or when one doesn't sell well,
they cancel that stop. Okay, there's forty one regular season
home games on the docket. There will always be at
(20:29):
minimum forty one regular season home games. Why is that.
It's not just about how much you have to pay
the players, right, and forget about the broadcasting rights, which
is part of it. Where it's a volume play. The
reason that it's so valuable on TV, even though the
ratings aren't great, it's because the volume play. There's just
games on every week. But the bigger issue is, you know,
(20:51):
cities have contributed to these arenas and to these entertainment
centers being built, and it all thrives based upon those
forty one nights, all the vendors within the building forty
one nights plus all and hotels around everything. Okay, So
to anyone who says that, just understand that people who
have been around the business sports, you don't have to
(21:12):
be as long as Rick and I have been around right,
which is you know, I'm going on twenty five years.
I think you're in the thirty year kind of category.
You become a dumb dumb or you're selling you you're
selling snake oil because we know it'll never happen. Okay,
that said, why are they complaining about sixty five games?
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Because because so many, Because the contracts are financially connected
to those postseason awards, Your ability to make a supermax
is tied. And I don't know what the exacts are,
but it's like, if you win MVP or you're in
All NBA within three years two three years of when
your contract is up, you're eligible for a Supermax, and
(21:59):
so it's it's money play and they just don't want
the risk. I don't really think it's a matter of
we don't want to play sixty five games. We don't
want our financial future tied to the responsibility of playing
sixty five games. And the thing is, like this subject
(22:20):
first came up when Jokic in mid January could only
miss one more game in order to still be eligible
for postseason awards. Victor Wembinyama was on that list. Luka
Doncitz I believe was on that list, and lo and behold,
(22:42):
Nikola Jokicic did not miss another game. Nikola Jokicic has qualified.
Victor Wembinyama has qualified. Luka Dancis had sixty four games.
If he doesn't do his hamstring, he qualifies. So I
really honestly believe this is not so much the player,
(23:02):
the only player. The only concern the players have is
that their financial ability is tied to the sixty five games.
They don't have an issue with playing. I think this
is to force the teams and the medical staffs. Let
let's not do the load management thing. Let's not look
at the schedule, because this is what happens. They look
(23:23):
at the schedule at the beginning of the year, and
they're already charting, Okay, we're gonna sit Nickel of this
game and this game and this game throughout. They're literally
looking whether it's back to backs, or it's long road trip,
or it's whatever it is. But they're creating a schedule
that does not have them playing all eighty two games.
(23:46):
So you have that schedule, you're following that schedule, and
then lo and behold, they get a legitimate injury, and
now you're in trouble.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
And so to me, this really is about they've the
teams have spent millions and millions and expanded the medical staffs,
and a lot of it is good and valuable and smart,
and some of it is we have to justify that
we've spent millions and millions and we have this massive
medical staff, so we have to constantly be giving feedback
(24:18):
and controlling the narrative and doing all these things. And
by the way, then you also have I mean we've
seen it with analytics, right, you can be overwhelmed by
the numbers. Well, you can also be overwhelmed by the
medical information. And we have all these biometrics. Oh, this
guy looks a little fatigued. We might need to sit
him down for a game. It's like, okay, as Nikola
(24:39):
yogis just demonstrated, I'm sure there's a lot of nights
he came into the game already fatigued, are a little sore?
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Did it stop him?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
No?
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Did he get injured? No?
Speaker 3 (24:52):
So I just think we need I love, I'm happy
for the rule.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
I'm glad that the rule happened.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
And what was demonstrating as opposed to all of the
barking dogs out there, going, oh, we can't have this,
Luka Doncic.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
I'm like, Nikola.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Jokicic just showed you, Victor Wembandama just showed you, like,
if it comes to it, they can play and they
should play.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
How does the NBA feel about the changes in college
basketball where now these players are being compensated in many
ways above the level they be compensated if they made
the NBA.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah, I don't, you know, it's funny. To be honest,
I have not spoken to anybody in the NBA front
office about this subject. Just from the thirty thousand foot
view and what I know about the business, I don't
think they honestly have a problem with it because it
means that players are staying longer in college, they are
(25:52):
older coming out, and so where I would tell you this,
I think your league and and and the international teams.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Have a much bigger problem with it because.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Players young players now can come over and make more
college then they can overseas there.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
But there's added there is added benefit to it, right.
They don't want young players for the most part either,
you know, Luca as like an exception, like they don't
want those guys, can't.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
I don't think that's true. They don't. They don't.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
They want to develop their talent in their system. You know,
they're they're but they have a certain way of going
about it. And this is the this is the element
that we haven't reached yet because this is still brand new,
which is how many how many of these international players
that if they stayed with their clubs and they took
(26:51):
less money in the short term, but they come up
through the ranks and they're now now they're with their
they're incorporated into their with in Real Real Madrid or
Barcelona or Red Star, like are they trading by going
to college because I will say this, I believe that
(27:13):
playing in the NC Double A, depending on the program
you go to, you may get paid, but you may
not develop at the same rate as a player because
with an international team, with your EARLYE team, you're practicing
with your age level team, you're playing some with the
you're getting minutes, you're playing with the second team, let's say,
(27:36):
and then you're getting an opportunity now and then to
either practice against or play with the top team. And
that is a development experience that college really can't replicate.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
The very top programs. So the question is now going
to be.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
They go to college, they get paid, they don't make
the NBA. Right now, they're going back to Europe and
it's like, oh, well you're not, like our homegrown are
better than then what's coming back? Like, you may be
taking the money now and costing your you're costing yourself
(28:19):
years as far as your long term ability to be
a professional.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, I also think that they're going to have an
issue when these guys come out of college and they
don't understand the landscape of how much they can make,
you know.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
You get as far as being a pro. I mean, yeah,
and ya.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
All the mean NBA, we're talking about international kids coming
from college, American players coming from college, like they have
no concept of it. Yeah, Like the number of rookies
from college basketball who are going to make six figures
playing overseas in their first year is minimal, minimal, whereas
(28:58):
there's a huge number then in college basketball. So imagine right,
But just again, forget about the seventh figure guy, because
the truth is that here's what's happened for years. We
talked about this at my level, We've talked about it
back when I was a broadcast, which is I feel
there's a reason that Kentucky guys, Kansas guys, Carolina guys,
(29:22):
Eucla guys, Indiana guys rarely, rarely become career overseas players.
They just do. It's not because they're not better now.
Part of it is they're more talented, so maybe at
some point they've reached their peak earlier. But a lot
of it, I believe is they're so catered to that
they become a little bit entitled. And now you've got
(29:45):
to go overseas and somebody says like, hey, I know
you made five hundred thousand to be a starting guard
at whatever Atlantic ten institution, but you're going to have
to play for ninety and our gym is two thousand
seats and you come in, there's a nice locker room.
Maybe you hang your on a hook, right, It's just
(30:08):
I've played it. I've played the top level in Lithuania,
when I was in Russia. Even when I played in Russia,
like we had a practice year, we played in the
hockey area, but it wasn't as nice a Notre Dame
as Oklham State wasn't close. Sure, And now you're gonna
be making in many ways a quarter a third, maybe
even less money. In comparison what you made. There's going
to be a lot of guys. I mean, the reason
(30:29):
that Kentucky guys don't go play overseas is they're like,
that's not I've been playing at the highest Like what
am I doing? Let me just get out of my life.
And I think that's gonna happen with a lot more guys.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I think that's I think it's very fair. It's also
I mean, honestly, the game over there is different, and
the catering is not only when it comes to all
of the perks on the outside, it's the way the
game is played. Like, you have to be able to play.
You have to be able to play unless you are
(31:01):
just a phenomenal talent. You have to be able to
play without the ball. You have to understand spacing, being
able to move and cut. You have to be comfortable
with one game, I may get five shots. The next next,
next shot, The next game, I might get fifteen, next
(31:21):
game I might get three.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Like they're there.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
They are very much coach controlled, I would say, even
more so than we think of college as being coach dominated.
It still doesn't compare to international teams. At international programs,
you've experienced the firsthand. You know, yes, yes, the justification
of like I got to have certain stats you walked in,
(31:48):
you walked into said that to an international.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Coach, you'd probably be on the next plane out.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
No, But but most international players do know they have
to put a better stats every year to order make
money more money every year. But yes, without.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Question, but it has to be within the context of
what the team. If you if you're averaging twenty and
your team is losing, you're not keeping your job.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Spurs Pistons, can either of them beat the Thunder Spurs
of Demons during the regular in the play in the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
It's I understand that. I understand that, But there's.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
The the the the metric or the formula for the
Oklahoma City Thunder. We don't think of chet Holmgren as
as being I mean, I think we think of him
at most.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
As the third star.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
But he creates a dynamic for them that is really
difficult for most teams to match up with. Victor wimbin
Yama eats that matchup alive and and has a vendetta
to do it every single time. And to me, that's
what changes Oklahoma City. The experience is a real thing,
(33:07):
and like there's and there's also I'm a little concerned
about the overall size of San Antonio outside of Wemby.
Like they're all six five six six guys. Outside of Wemby,
there's a little more, you know, Okay, see can put
(33:27):
a little more size on the floor. And when you
can pick matchups and exploit them, then you can really
take advantage of that. So I would still favor Oklahoma
City in a series, but I would not be shocked.
I wouldn't be ultra shocked if San Antonio pulled an upset.
(33:48):
It would probably take seven games, it would take something extraordinary,
But I think there's a window. The big question is
can Victor do Can Victor have as big of an
influence in a playoff series as as he has in
the regular season games.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
That's a great question. I don't know. I also don't know.
I mean the Spurs this year remind me of several
different maybe two years ago It's Oklahoma City thunder team
where they were upset by the by the Mavericks in
the playoffs, and it was just simply a case of
those guys hadn't played the playoffs before. Yeah, you know,
they just hadn't. The first great thunder team was Kobe Bryant,
(34:29):
a kind of average Laker team, but it was Kobe.
He'd done it a million times. They had never done
it before. Yea, and uh factor, and then and then
they they learned a hard lesson eventually got to the finals,
just like this team went to the finals and one
won the championship.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
It usually happens in steps.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
There's no question about it, and so we will we
will see. I also don't completely discount Denver and their ability.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Sure so sure got Jamal Murray, you have Nicol Kich's
Aaron Gordon. It's it's not crazy win seven games last year.
That went win seven games last year, and I'm not.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
And that was not convinced with all kinds of craziness
in the front office and your and your I mean,
like if your coach having to come in at the
last second to run the team.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, last thing. Uh It's it's kind of a two parter.
But let's let's start with Steph. What does he do
next year? Because Kurr is not under contract for next year.
Only played for Kerr after after playing for Action Jackson. Like,
(35:39):
I mean, I obviously still wants to play. I mean, like,
what what happens there? Because that was this is one
of those they keep kind of throwing things at to
like the temporary fixed thing. Oh, Jimmy Butler, this year,
you know, come up with a new idea to to
keep that playing this thing out Clay went by bye
last year, Jimmy Butler, and of course Jimmy Butler breaks
down what happens there for next season.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
I could see a last dance scenario. I could see
Steve signing up for one more year and and and
everybody and like acknowledging this is going to be our
last run. Whatever it is, this is going to be
it that that to me, it's hard for me to
imagine the Warriors believing that they can chase a championship.
(36:24):
As crazy as it is to even say that, they're
still in that realm, they still have some part of
their mindset believing that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
If Jimmy Butler didn't get hurt, we'd be right there.
Yeah exactly. No.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
No, the only way you can continue to sell that
dream or believe that dream is if Steve Kerr is
the head coach, any other any anybody else coming in.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
And you're just you're just feeling a basketball because you
have to just.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Playing out the string. And I don't know that either,
Joe lacub like, I don't.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
I think people people put.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
On Steph the idea that if if he's not playing
for a championship, that that he's either being wasted or
he's going to be incredibly unhappy, and and I don't
think that's his mindset. I think his mindset always is
I want to see how far we can get. I
(37:24):
want that, like, I want to see if I can
exceed expectations. Sure, and that's why I believe that even
if if Steve wasn't there, he would take the same approach.
But from a team standpoint, you can kiss the idea
that you're like you would be looking I would be
looking at it and going, Okay, let's let's let's move pieces.
(37:44):
Let's give a bunch of guys that can learn from
Steph in this year so that as we pivot and he.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Steps out the door.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Same question, Lebron James. We had this discussion middle of
the season.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
I went just so you know, like this is a
I want this on record on the pod. Okay, So
I went to war Thunder Lakers last week. I sat
there with my brother. My brother has was an assistant
coach on the men's side for twenty six years. I've
been a head coach. I know people think, well, like
you don't like, I don't. It doesn't have anything to
with that I don't like. Brownie James is not really
(38:24):
an NBA player. He plays in the NBA and that night,
you know, they were so depleted because of injuries, he
played major minutes at the point guard spot. And watching
him when he when he gets past mid court as
they hound him. And you're not talking about Michael Cooper, right,
We're not talking about, you know, one of the elite defenders,
(38:46):
the Mitchell kid at with the off night with the
Miami Heat, right, Davion Mitchell. We're not talking about one
of those guys. We're talking about good, solid defenders just
and he he really struggles just to enter the ball
in the offense, let alone get it to where you
got to get to in the scoring.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
So he was getting sripp as soon as he crossed
mid court.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
He can't do it. He's not an elite shooter, he's
not an elite defender. He's just not an NBA player.
And I know we live in an all or nothing
society where the NBA star or you're a bum like. Look,
there's a lot of levels of basketball he could play at.
This is just not one of them. And I'm I
have no inside knowledge. Like I coached Rob Polinka's son
Durham in AU basketball for a couple of years. We
(39:24):
never talked shop. That's just not how he does it.
He's very, very private in what he does. So I
don't know this, but you have new ownership, right, and
even the old ownership and Polinka, they didn't seem to
bow to the whims of Lebron before this season. There's
no doubt in my mind that you get still get
a lot of eye rolling over Bronning, not just being
(39:45):
on the team but playing sir. So at some point
they need to go, hey, we're good here, But where
is the landing spot? That's that's the big question. Like
it's not that other teams wouldn't take him, but there
has to be a marriage of another team that would
take him that he wants to play for because he
(40:05):
takes his legacy that seriously. And I don't know where
that that marriage is.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
You're talking about Lebron, Yeah, yeah, I don't.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
I don't think there is one. I mean, I don't
think there's another team that he can go has to
be what.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
He has to that guy has to go out with
a victory tour and him and Steph in the same
year would be great for the NBA because even though
Lebron's not really a villain, he would be sort of
villainized and he's he's the one who's brought all this
player movement that had happened before, but never with a
player of his caliber, and then he got Steph who's
never left. Like, it would be great. It would be
the you know, ESPN would make it into the good
(40:41):
versus the evil. Whatever has to happen is but I
just don't know where it happens.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Is Is Lebron James worth that to any other team
right now?
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Again, yes, I just don't know if it's a team
he would play for. Okay, so right, I mean think
of think of the teams that.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
I don't know that there is a team that he
would play for. Like I don't know that he wants
to leave La.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
No, no, I understand that's what I'm saying. I'm saying,
like would the Sons or I don't know, pick irrelevant team, Like,
who's the most irrelevant team in the NBA this I
would have said the Hornets, but they're actually kind of
decent Pelicans, Sacramento, Sacramento.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
They're not doing that. They're not doing who They're not
doing that.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Okay, let's go who else is He's not doing.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
A dog and pony show, because that's what it would be.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
Anybody.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Anybody that is doing that is doing it strictly because
we got nothing else.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
We're just gonna waste a year.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
There are there are teams like that, but he wouldn't
play for teams like that, right, So who's it? Like
there has to be.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
Southern marriage to be I mean, I get it.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
That he just retires and like, hey, I'm out, Lebron
out alternative.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
The only real alternative here is that he takes pennies
on the dollar and he stays with the Lakers for
one more year and they give him the farewell tour.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
That's the only.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
But but he's never offered up that as a possibility. Okay, well,
but there's just too much pride there, beggars, and then
there's the agency there that I get it, But he's
never been in that position. It's he is nay, I understand,
but this is what happened to Alan Iverson, Okay, Whereas
Alan Iverson could never be anything other than Alan Iverson
(42:25):
so late in his career when you're like, hey, you know, look, dude,
you got to come off the bench. Lebron has on
the court at times taken a secondary tert share role
and just kind of let guys do it, which he
never did before. But the money is different. They have
never ever, ever, ever, And he's with an agent that's
like his agent clutches his agency now, right, that's his baby,
(42:46):
that's his legacy. Like I ain't gonna take a I'm
not gonna take a veteran's minimum.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
I'm Lebron James understood. But I if I give any
credence to the possibility that he could move in that direction,
is that he's already had to move in that direction
over the course of this season. Like he no longer
is the rule. It does it comes anywhere close to
the rule of the roost.
Speaker 4 (43:09):
He's not like.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
What he says goes no longer applies on the court.
He's had to He's had to very much have to
take a third rule now JJ is still like doing
things to placate him that if you just on the
face of it, like probably wouldn't do. There's certain things
that he's doing, but he's had to move in that direction.
(43:33):
He just He's going to have to keep.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Moving in that Runney's different, though. These guys are different
with money. They just are.
Speaker 4 (43:40):
I get that.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
It's just a point of pride. Whre you're like, I'm
Lebron James.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
Well then you know what, then there is no farewell tour.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yeah, it's fascinating. Uh what does the league think of JJ?
And I say this because there's lots of things that
they do offensively where I'm like, oh, copy that, that's
pretty good, right, Like he has he's excellent. Yeah, but
the it's almost like a show to him. It's very
(44:08):
It's it's really kind of college sports esque with the
like you're throwing guys under the bus and just we
suck tonight. And he asked him and and again I
find it entertaining, but I I I I think it's
some of it is for entertainment, and I can't figure
out if people, especially players like that. What's your sense?
Speaker 3 (44:33):
Yeah, well, look a lot of it this supplies with
the new ownership, like which direction are they go? And
then really that's the only person that really matters at
this point, you know, people have It's funny because I
always thought that at some point JJ's methods.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Not he's unbelievably arrogant. He just is like like let's
just let's just just just state it, okay, And I
don't and and it's not confidence, it's arrogance. And I'll
defend him from this perspective, like, yes, all duchies appear
to be super super arrogant. Apparently the game was invented
in Durham, North Carolina. I wasn't aware of. It wasn't
aware of. It's called the Naismith complex. No wear this
(45:14):
in college sports. I was talking about a guy goes
to the Final four and suddenly they're doing clinics and
writing books and like, dude, you just you won four games,
Like get over yourself a little bit. But JJ has
that like personified and he is good at it, but
he ain't done anything right, but he's just the level
of arrogance is.
Speaker 4 (45:32):
Like wow, holy cow.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Right, And that supposedly is why college coaches don't work
in the NBA, because in the NBA, it has to
be about the players. In college, it's about the coach.
But he's an NBA coach, he's an NBA player. And
I would also tell you that in order to have
as successful an NBA career as he had, you have
to be an arrogant prick. Yep, you just do because
everybody's telling you can't guard anybody, you can't get a
(45:56):
shot off, and then he just you have to do.
But I that that there's a lot of theatrics there
that are that.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
You have to be.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
You have to be uber confident, bordering on arrogant, but
you can't show it like, you can't put it on
display the way JJ does. Everybody knows he's arrogant.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
Stan van Gundy. The Van Gundy's.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
Arrogant, very arrogant in terms of what their knowledge of
the game and coaching and all that.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
But they put off the ag shucks. Yes, yeah, Doc.
Speaker 4 (46:27):
Rivers, Doc rivers.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Same thing like when they're in front of the microphone,
he ain't. The same thing is when they're in the
locker room, no question, or in a practice. So that's
where JJ does not divide. And I always thought at
some point it's gonna it's gonna bite him in the ass.
Like where he is fortunate right now is that he
(46:50):
has an Austin Reeves who is not going to be
like Austin Reeves is still the Aweeshuck's glad that I
am where I am and this is way more than
I ever dreamed of.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
But Austin reason also that's in front of the in
front of the camera. He has he's got that swagger
when he plays.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
He doesn't he has the swagger, but he also doesn't
have expectations of how he's supposed to be treated. Okay,
like he hasn't reached that point yet. Sure, Luca got
traded there, so he's already taken a hit like and
even then you see some between JJ and Luca. But
(47:28):
Luca is also of the mindset that the European international mindset,
the coach is king. That's what they grow up with,
and the idea that you are going to get rid
of the coach that generally does not expect does not
that's not a belief in international basketball. And so that's
(47:50):
what he's grown up with. So he's not going to
go at JJ. And Lebron has been defanged. So JJ's
in a very unique situation here or where he can
get away with it.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
You're the best. By the way, the new book is
called Coachable by Rick Buker. I'd encourage you to pick
it up right or if his right shoulder, if you're watching.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
A pre order comes out May twelfth, Yeah, but you'll
be getting an early copy.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Doug. I sent you my address a couple weeks ago.
Speaker 4 (48:18):
I know you didn't send it a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
You said it a week ago, and they went out
this week, so it's happening.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
Sounded so much better when I said a couple weeks ago.
I actually didn't look at the date when I texted you,
I was like, why is my address on this text
to Britt Bukeer's like, oh, yeah, his book's coming out,
that's what That's what it is. His lunch is ready
in the other room. Snap his fingers and his wife
will bring him because he just he just worked very
very difficult, very hard for the last forty some odd minutes.
In the meantime, you are the best. I appreciate you
(48:46):
joining me.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
You got it in them then
What up?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome in? This is the Doug Gottlieb Show. You know,
I was, I was watching the play in games and
it was only the The first playing game that I
watched was earlier, earlier this week, as the Hornets won
on the last second shot at home against the Miami Heat.
(00:31):
And it dawned on me, actually, when I saw that
that game was coming up at night, that I had
only watched one full NBA game the entire season. And
I understand that. You know, if you're listening to this
or watching this in Wisconsin and you're like, well, I
watched Bucks games rule in the year before they got bad,
or you know, if you're you know we're on nationally,
(00:52):
or you pick it up, you're like, yeah, I watched
my own team, or I'll I checked it checked up
on Cooper Flag to see how he did. Maybe your
Conkainipple guy, and you're like, I watch more Hornets basketball
now than I ever have in my life. These are
all reasonable. For some reason, people acting like it's a
badge of honor that I don't watch the NBA anymore now.
(01:13):
I don't watch it only because well, I'm a college
basketball coach and I just I try to prioritize that
things are important to me, and those the NBA doesn't
affect my livelihood. Now you can pick up a set,
play a style. A lot of the things that we
do at Green Bay are actually NBA things. The problem
with it is that once you get to the playoffs,
(01:35):
all the pretty sets sort of go away because there's
so much grabbing and holding and it's a different sport.
And that's really one what I wanted to hone in on.
I understand there's negativity towards the NBA because guys don't
play eighty two games, or it feels like they don't
play eighty two games anymore. I understand that the tanking
leads you to not want to watch regular season games.
(01:55):
I get that, And there have been years and years
and years of dominance from you know, one or two
clubs in a given year where you're like, do I
really want to watch these games? Some people want to
throw in, you know, they don't like the politics of
the league or or the way basketball is played. I
(02:15):
always find it funny that you have the common fan
says the NBA shoots too many three point shots. Then
you watch the common fan go and play basketball and
they shoot too many three point shots, only they're not
actually good at it. NBA players are incredible at it.
If we're being honest, and I always am, the NBA
(02:37):
is more skilled than it's ever been. Those guys shoot better,
dribble better, pass better, they use better angles, better spacing
than they ever have. It's the best coached basketball in
the world. And you might sit there and go like, no,
it's not. They don't play defense. When you say that
to people who know basketball, you sound like a bit
of a dumb dumb you do. They actually play very
(02:57):
good defense, the ones that play. Because you can't play defense,
you don't play. But it's really hard to play defense
when the other guy you're guarding is so unbelievably talented,
and based upon how it's officiated in the regular season,
you can't make nearly as much contact. All the benefits
of officiating seem to go to the offense. Right. The
(03:20):
problem with if you have all of those issues politics,
game style wise, game is called and too soft a
manner or whatever, you know, the games are a blowout.
There's a disparity between the haves and the have nots.
Tanking guys not playing any two games all of those
arguments go out the window in the playoffs, right because
(03:43):
now you can't tank. You're already in the playoffs, so
everybody plays. You're trying to play as hard as you
possibly can play. And if you didn't like the finesse
of the regular season, the postseason is completely different. It's
a wrestling match, maybe even too much so. So this
is the honest basketball take. Players are more skilled, many
(04:04):
of them lack the feel of the older and now
former era players feel. By that, I mean, when we
grew up, we played basketball all the time, played basketball
the friends. We played basketball at a park, we played
basketball at a gym, we played pickup basketball. Now most
of these guys have grown up playing in the AAU
(04:26):
or even in when you play overseas, in the junior
club circuit and in the States, everybody has a trainer,
so it's if there's a cone in the gym, they're
amazing putting nine other guys in the court, and sometimes
they don't know what to do. And it's those who
assimilate to real basketball that have the most success. But
even with that, there's still the background of they can
(04:48):
kind of sometimes play as if they're playing one on
one on an island, and there's eight other guys out
there on the basketball floor. I watched one NBA game
in the regular season and it wasn't a good one.
I watched two playing games and they were great. Why
because all of the negativity of the NBA goes away
(05:08):
when the playoffs start. So Diana Rassini and Mike Rabel
sitting head coach and NFL insider. I don't know what
happened between the two. I know that she has several
(05:31):
times come out and denied any sort of nefarious conduct.
So two has Vrabel, and yet the world has had
a ton of fun at their and their family's expense.
And I just we have changed as a society, and
I want to make sure that people understand it's not
(05:53):
always for the better. Again, if that was my wife,
I would be pissed. I would demand an explanation. That
was my husband, would be pissed. I would demand an explanation.
I don't know the level of their friendship. I don't
know what the spouses do. I don't know any of that.
But when we've gotten to the point of exposing people's
(06:17):
personal lives, I think we've crossed over into something now
in fairness this point. This crossover started in politics and
then moved on into sports long ago. I started in
politics with Bill Clinton and what he was doing in
the White House, and the IV did not have right.
(06:38):
We were all watching it when I was a kid.
I remember watching it and that was a sea change.
Because the stories of John F. Kennedy are almost that
of hero in nature. Tiger Woods has been a sports
and regular just iconic figure in both eras right. He
(07:01):
came up with the Michael Jordan's and Charles Barklay's and
guys having a really good time and going into the
private room in Vegas and smoking cigars and who knows
what goes on in there, only to have his entire
life exposed because of what took place with his ex wife. Now,
some of the stuff with his ex wife, it's not
(07:22):
that people were trying to track it down. It was
he was in a car crash. He was injured, and
like so many other scandals, it started with a car crash.
It started with something. I mean, I don't know how
many people know this. Michigan's basketball program post fab five
was brought down by the NCA because there was a
car crash. Robert Trailor was their star Power Forward. He
(07:44):
was driving a recruit matteen Cleeves, who was set to
go to Michigan to the casinos they weren't supposed to
go to in Toronto and the Ford Explorer they were
driving in rolled and turned out that the car belonged
to the late Robert Trailor's grandma, who was in a wheelchair.
When the research has done, how can she pay for
(08:04):
a car in the wheelchair? It then brought down. So
this has happened before. But the point was that for
fifty years, the media ignored what you were doing in
your personal life, only to hyper focus or focus on
your professional life. That has changed. It did start with politics,
It has been in sports, and now we're getting to
(08:27):
the sports insider industry and somebody clearly tip them off.
It doesn't make their behavior, if it was nefarious or
even just optically looks bad, doesn't make it okay. But
our insatiable need for it, the fact that we I'll
be the first one to point out I'm just as
guilty as anybody. If TMZ pops up and has a
(08:48):
picture of somebody, I click on it. I want to
see it because I take the bait. But now when
I sit with it, I don't feel great about it.
I just don't you are allowed to be human being
and we are flawed. It doesn't mean I don't have
sympathy and empathy for what's going on in their personal
lives and for the fact that if nothing was going on,
it looks really bad and it's going to be hard
(09:10):
to convince anybody otherwise. But don't we all deserve the
chance to have private life, to go and have drinks
with friends, to not be on a cell phone camera
at all times. Because if there's one thing we have
learned from cell phone camera footage, even though it gives
us a real perspective in the moment, it doesn't give
(09:33):
us true perspective. It's one camera at one moment, what
happened before, what happens after, and what happens from a
different side. We can go through timestamps of different social
issues that have been brought out by you know, guy
who gets pulled over by a cop essentially makes it.
(09:54):
Tries to embarrass the cop by demanding his rights to
constantly be upheld when you don't realize what the cop
is going through. Is this really what we want to
do do we really want to follow around every person
and figure out how they do, what they do and
who they do it with. Is that what we've become?
If it is okay, it's going to be exhausting, and
(10:18):
you're going to out some people that didn't do anything
wrong to be out it because you don't know the
context of relationships conversations. My first thought was, well, maybe
they're already split up from their spouse's sidet that I
don't know. In this case, they say they're not. Maybe
everybody knew what was going on. Again, I don't know,
and truthfully I shouldn't care, and neither should you. But
(10:40):
we've crossed over into space and it feels like we're
down this path of no return where nothing is secret
and nothing is private, and nobody has the ability to
have their own life outside of their work. Ask yourself this,
Ask yourself, quite honestly, this is it okay with you?
If somebody followed you around, many of you will say yeah,
(11:02):
And then I say, ever gone home from a bar?
Haven't too many a drink? Ever been sitting at a
bar and a beautiful woman sits next to you and
you talk to her. Imagine if a picture is snapped
at that very moment. Right again, sometimes nefarious behavior does
take place and it will get exposed to the proper people,
(11:24):
but to the entire world. I don't feel great about it.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Do you.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Let's welcome in my man man, Rick Buker. If you
look behind him, if you're watching us on our digital feed,
you can see coachable how the greatest performers reach their
highest potential. It's pretty awesome. It's a new book out
by Rick Buker. Buke. I want to talk NBA with you.
But what gave you the desire to write this new book.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Part of it was seeing my kids go through youth
sports and the experiences they had and the objective of
I felt like it was a very shortsighted objective in
terms of what you were going to get out of sports.
And I felt like sports can teach you lessons that
(12:14):
you can apply for the rest of your life, and
it's about facing challenges and learning how to overcome them.
To me, ultimately, that's probably the most valuable thing I
got out of sports.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
And I didn't see that as.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Being the.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Motive or the objective.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
With not only a lot of athletes, but a lot
of parents and so I wanted to write about my experience,
my kids experience, and the experience most importantly of all
of the great athletes who ended up being champions or
maximizing their potential that they all went through that it wasn't.
(12:54):
I got to find the right team. I got to
find the right coach. I got to find the right program.
Sometimes you're going to be because you need.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
To get better. And how do you do that.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
Well, you synthesize what you want to be with someone
else's vision of what you can be. And that, to
me is the definition of being coachable.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Uh it's available now wherever you pick up your books.
Of course you can get to Did you get to
do the where you're the narrator for audio bus? No?
Speaker 4 (13:21):
I did.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
I narrated the introduction and the epilogue, but we we
hired someone to do the full thing.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
I they that's got to be boring as hell. Let's
just be honest, and there's no amount of money that's like,
I don't know, Or you could hire somebody really cool,
like uh, like a Sean Cornray, I mean read a
book coach.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
I it would it wouldn't.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
I'm nearly and sometimes I had second thoughts as to
whether I should have done it, because this is such
a personal thing to me. Sure doing it for someone else, yeah,
I could see where like that that might be a
bit of a challenge, And but they told me it
would like it's two three days, you're in the studio, and.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, I know, writing a book is arduous enough of
a process.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
You're going to have somebody else do it, Okay, Yeah,
so I get to select who did it.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I noticed you didn't call me.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
I mean, I they gave me a list. You weren't
on it.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
I mean that's such bull crap. I mean, it's like
the It's like the Lebron James, Like I had nothing
to do with him being fired. Yeah, Lebron, if you
wanted to be your coach, he's still your coach.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Wait a minute, you just told me.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
You just told me you would never want to do
something like this, and now you're griping that I never
approached you.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
You know what this is, you, Doug.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
I'd like to be like I've done. I've literally, I
mean this, I've done just about everything in broadcasting. I've
done play by play for basketball've done play by play
on radio for football. I've done sideline for Fox NFL Football.
I've never been a part of an NBA broadcast in
the game, but I've done the draft, I've done obviously
(15:02):
Sports Center blah blah blah blah like you name it.
So I have never written a book, although I need
to at some point, and I've definitely never narrated a book.
So okay, I don't know. I just just just a
just a thought. Okay, let's get to some NBA uh
uh Pilaver as the former commissioner of the NBA, I
(15:23):
used to that was a great word, David Sartin Plaver
just such an awesome words. Start with the honest it's
over right, like they're going to trade him.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Uh, we're all we're eventually going to get there. I've
said this since last trade deadline. Neither side wants to
be the one who is credited with pulling the trigger.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
They wanted to.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Be the other side to say either Giannis has asked
to be traded or the Milwaukee Bucks have decided, you
know that it's time for us to part way. Jannis
wants it on them, they want it on Yanis. And
I think what is revolutionary is if it ultimately comes
(16:08):
to this if it comes to Yannis asking for a trade,
and I think that this will still be slow rolled
until it comes to that. I think in their heart
of hearts, Milwaukee doesn't want to trade him unless they
have to or someone gives them an offer that they
just can't refuse. And of late, we have not seen
(16:30):
that with superstars. So and as long as Yannis doesn't
ask to be traded, doesn't publicly asked to be traded.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Then they're not going.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Then then they still have the opportunity to get the
absolute boat load and then some for him, because it's
going to feel like they're just going and doing it.
What's revolutionary here is is that if Yannis ultimately decides
I want to get out of Milwaukee at any cost,
(17:06):
he will be the first international player to demand to trade,
to publicly demand to trade. And that's that's going to
be a sea change, because one of the values of
getting a Nikola Jokic or up until at this point,
a Janis or even a Luka Dancic is never they
(17:26):
never they never would think about, Oh, like I don't
have the right players around me, I'm not getting enough attention,
you're not paying you know, whatever it is, whatever it
is that I'm not getting as I see myself as
a superstar, I'm going to go someplace else that's just
not in their DNA, and Yannis would be breaking the
(17:47):
seal on that, and I'd be and as we know,
same with Lebron James in the Summer of Lebron. Like
once a player crosses a threshold and says, oh, oh, it's.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Not so bad.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
On the other side, I'm more empowered, then everybody else
begins to feel like I can do the same thing.
Lebron did it first, and then everybody else is like, oh,
not only do I want to be traded, but I
want you to go acquire the guys that I want
to play with. Gianness would be creating the same template
I think for international players.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
That said is going to be traded. I mean just
doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Otherwise I understood understand, well, it doesn't make any sense
for what Giannis wants to do. It makes all the
sense in the world from Milwaukee.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
It does. Sure, what can they legitimately put around him
next year? And how competitive can.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
They be that It's not about that.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
It's it's from a fromicts business standpoint. I'm not talking
about competitively I'm talking about. You can sell tickets, you
can steal corporate corporate sponsorships. You can sell Hope more
than anything for season ticket sales, for the desire to
see Yannis. So as long as I have that, anything else,
(19:06):
anything else, I'm gonna get. That's a roll of the dice.
Gianness is a proven commodity. Whatever package I get, it's
gonna be draft picked.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
I can sell Hope for a certain period of time.
But Yannis is from a business standpoint, he's the face
of your team. He's your marketing dream. So are they
gonna win anything?
Speaker 4 (19:29):
No, not.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
You know, it's gonna take two or three years, and
then it's gonna be deft in terms of what they
do with John Horst does, but in terms of where
Milwaukee is, makes far more sense to keep him.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
The sixty five game rule, Yeah, the sixty five game
rule for people who don't know, in order to win
a postseason award of any kind, you've got to play
at least sixty five games. And NBA players, current NBA
players don't like this rule. Now, if you look at
the math, you're like, wait a second, there's eighty two games,
(20:05):
and now they don't want to play sixty five. Okay,
let me start with and I've done this before, but
I'm going to do it again. There will be no
elimination of basketball games. Okay. This is not like a
like a concert tour or when one doesn't sell well,
they cancel that stop. Okay, there's forty one regular season
home games on the docket. There will always be at
(20:29):
minimum forty one regular season home games. Why is that.
It's not just about how much you have to pay
the players, right, and forget about the broadcasting rights, which
is part of it. Where it's a volume play. The
reason that it's so valuable on TV, even though the
ratings aren't great, it's because the volume play. There's just
games on every week. But the bigger issue is, you know,
(20:51):
cities have contributed to these arenas and to these entertainment
centers being built, and it all thrives based upon those
forty one nights, all the vendors within the building forty
one nights plus all and hotels around everything. Okay, So
to anyone who says that, just understand that people who
have been around the business sports, you don't have to
(21:12):
be as long as Rick and I have been around right,
which is you know, I'm going on twenty five years.
I think you're in the thirty year kind of category.
You become a dumb dumb or you're selling you you're
selling snake oil because we know it'll never happen. Okay,
that said, why are they complaining about sixty five games?
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Because because so many, Because the contracts are financially connected
to those postseason awards, Your ability to make a supermax
is tied. And I don't know what the exacts are,
but it's like, if you win MVP or you're in
All NBA within three years two three years of when
your contract is up, you're eligible for a Supermax, and
(21:59):
so it's it's money play and they just don't want
the risk. I don't really think it's a matter of
we don't want to play sixty five games. We don't
want our financial future tied to the responsibility of playing
sixty five games. And the thing is, like this subject
(22:20):
first came up when Jokic in mid January could only
miss one more game in order to still be eligible
for postseason awards. Victor Wembinyama was on that list. Luka
Doncitz I believe was on that list, and lo and behold,
(22:42):
Nikola Jokicic did not miss another game. Nikola Jokicic has qualified.
Victor Wembinyama has qualified. Luka Dancis had sixty four games.
If he doesn't do his hamstring, he qualifies. So I
really honestly believe this is not so much the player,
(23:02):
the only player. The only concern the players have is
that their financial ability is tied to the sixty five games.
They don't have an issue with playing. I think this
is to force the teams and the medical staffs. Let
let's not do the load management thing. Let's not look
at the schedule, because this is what happens. They look
(23:23):
at the schedule at the beginning of the year, and
they're already charting, Okay, we're gonna sit Nickel of this
game and this game and this game throughout. They're literally
looking whether it's back to backs, or it's long road trip,
or it's whatever it is. But they're creating a schedule
that does not have them playing all eighty two games.
(23:46):
So you have that schedule, you're following that schedule, and
then lo and behold, they get a legitimate injury, and
now you're in trouble.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
And so to me, this really is about they've the
teams have spent millions and millions and expanded the medical staffs,
and a lot of it is good and valuable and smart,
and some of it is we have to justify that
we've spent millions and millions and we have this massive
medical staff, so we have to constantly be giving feedback
(24:18):
and controlling the narrative and doing all these things. And
by the way, then you also have I mean we've
seen it with analytics, right, you can be overwhelmed by
the numbers. Well, you can also be overwhelmed by the
medical information. And we have all these biometrics. Oh, this
guy looks a little fatigued. We might need to sit
him down for a game. It's like, okay, as Nikola
(24:39):
yogis just demonstrated, I'm sure there's a lot of nights
he came into the game already fatigued, are a little sore?
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Did it stop him?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
No?
Speaker 4 (24:49):
Did he get injured? No?
Speaker 3 (24:52):
So I just think we need I love, I'm happy
for the rule.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
I'm glad that the rule happened.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
And what was demonstrating as opposed to all of the
barking dogs out there, going, oh, we can't have this,
Luka Doncic.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
I'm like, Nikola.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Jokicic just showed you, Victor Wembandama just showed you, like,
if it comes to it, they can play and they
should play.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
How does the NBA feel about the changes in college
basketball where now these players are being compensated in many
ways above the level they be compensated if they made
the NBA.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah, I don't, you know, it's funny. To be honest,
I have not spoken to anybody in the NBA front
office about this subject. Just from the thirty thousand foot
view and what I know about the business, I don't
think they honestly have a problem with it because it
means that players are staying longer in college, they are
(25:52):
older coming out, and so where I would tell you this,
I think your league and and and the international teams.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Have a much bigger problem with it because.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Players young players now can come over and make more
college then they can overseas there.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
But there's added there is added benefit to it, right.
They don't want young players for the most part either,
you know, Luca as like an exception, like they don't
want those guys, can't.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
I don't think that's true. They don't. They don't.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
They want to develop their talent in their system. You know,
they're they're but they have a certain way of going
about it. And this is the this is the element
that we haven't reached yet because this is still brand new,
which is how many how many of these international players
that if they stayed with their clubs and they took
(26:51):
less money in the short term, but they come up
through the ranks and they're now now they're with their
they're incorporated into their with in Real Real Madrid or
Barcelona or Red Star, like are they trading by going
to college because I will say this, I believe that
(27:13):
playing in the NC Double A, depending on the program
you go to, you may get paid, but you may
not develop at the same rate as a player because
with an international team, with your EARLYE team, you're practicing
with your age level team, you're playing some with the
you're getting minutes, you're playing with the second team, let's say,
(27:36):
and then you're getting an opportunity now and then to
either practice against or play with the top team. And
that is a development experience that college really can't replicate.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
The very top programs. So the question is now going
to be.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
They go to college, they get paid, they don't make
the NBA. Right now, they're going back to Europe and
it's like, oh, well you're not, like our homegrown are
better than then what's coming back? Like, you may be
taking the money now and costing your you're costing yourself
(28:19):
years as far as your long term ability to be
a professional.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, I also think that they're going to have an
issue when these guys come out of college and they
don't understand the landscape of how much they can make,
you know.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
You get as far as being a pro. I mean, yeah,
and ya.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
All the mean NBA, we're talking about international kids coming
from college, American players coming from college, like they have
no concept of it. Yeah, Like the number of rookies
from college basketball who are going to make six figures
playing overseas in their first year is minimal, minimal, whereas
(28:58):
there's a huge number then in college basketball. So imagine right,
But just again, forget about the seventh figure guy, because
the truth is that here's what's happened for years. We
talked about this at my level, We've talked about it
back when I was a broadcast, which is I feel
there's a reason that Kentucky guys, Kansas guys, Carolina guys,
(29:22):
Eucla guys, Indiana guys rarely, rarely become career overseas players.
They just do. It's not because they're not better now.
Part of it is they're more talented, so maybe at
some point they've reached their peak earlier. But a lot
of it, I believe is they're so catered to that
they become a little bit entitled. And now you've got
(29:45):
to go overseas and somebody says like, hey, I know
you made five hundred thousand to be a starting guard
at whatever Atlantic ten institution, but you're going to have
to play for ninety and our gym is two thousand
seats and you come in, there's a nice locker room.
Maybe you hang your on a hook, right, It's just
(30:08):
I've played it. I've played the top level in Lithuania,
when I was in Russia. Even when I played in Russia,
like we had a practice year, we played in the
hockey area, but it wasn't as nice a Notre Dame
as Oklham State wasn't close. Sure, And now you're gonna
be making in many ways a quarter a third, maybe
even less money. In comparison what you made. There's going
to be a lot of guys. I mean, the reason
(30:29):
that Kentucky guys don't go play overseas is they're like,
that's not I've been playing at the highest Like what
am I doing? Let me just get out of my life.
And I think that's gonna happen with a lot more guys.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I think that's I think it's very fair. It's also
I mean, honestly, the game over there is different, and
the catering is not only when it comes to all
of the perks on the outside, it's the way the
game is played. Like, you have to be able to play.
You have to be able to play unless you are
(31:01):
just a phenomenal talent. You have to be able to
play without the ball. You have to understand spacing, being
able to move and cut. You have to be comfortable
with one game, I may get five shots. The next next,
next shot, The next game, I might get fifteen, next
(31:21):
game I might get three.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Like they're there.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
They are very much coach controlled, I would say, even
more so than we think of college as being coach dominated.
It still doesn't compare to international teams. At international programs,
you've experienced the firsthand. You know, yes, yes, the justification
of like I got to have certain stats you walked in,
(31:48):
you walked into said that to an international.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Coach, you'd probably be on the next plane out.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
No, But but most international players do know they have
to put a better stats every year to order make
money more money every year. But yes, without.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Question, but it has to be within the context of
what the team. If you if you're averaging twenty and
your team is losing, you're not keeping your job.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Spurs Pistons, can either of them beat the Thunder Spurs
of Demons during the regular in the play in the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
It's I understand that. I understand that, But there's.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
The the the the metric or the formula for the
Oklahoma City Thunder. We don't think of chet Holmgren as
as being I mean, I think we think of him
at most.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
As the third star.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
But he creates a dynamic for them that is really
difficult for most teams to match up with. Victor wimbin
Yama eats that matchup alive and and has a vendetta
to do it every single time. And to me, that's
what changes Oklahoma City. The experience is a real thing,
(33:07):
and like there's and there's also I'm a little concerned
about the overall size of San Antonio outside of Wemby.
Like they're all six five six six guys. Outside of Wemby,
there's a little more, you know, Okay, see can put
(33:27):
a little more size on the floor. And when you
can pick matchups and exploit them, then you can really
take advantage of that. So I would still favor Oklahoma
City in a series, but I would not be shocked.
I wouldn't be ultra shocked if San Antonio pulled an upset.
(33:48):
It would probably take seven games, it would take something extraordinary,
But I think there's a window. The big question is
can Victor do Can Victor have as big of an
influence in a playoff series as as he has in
the regular season games.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
That's a great question. I don't know. I also don't know.
I mean the Spurs this year remind me of several
different maybe two years ago It's Oklahoma City thunder team
where they were upset by the by the Mavericks in
the playoffs, and it was just simply a case of
those guys hadn't played the playoffs before. Yeah, you know,
they just hadn't. The first great thunder team was Kobe Bryant,
(34:29):
a kind of average Laker team, but it was Kobe.
He'd done it a million times. They had never done
it before. Yea, and uh factor, and then and then
they they learned a hard lesson eventually got to the finals,
just like this team went to the finals and one
won the championship.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
It usually happens in steps.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
There's no question about it, and so we will we
will see. I also don't completely discount Denver and their ability.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Sure so sure got Jamal Murray, you have Nicol Kich's
Aaron Gordon. It's it's not crazy win seven games last year.
That went win seven games last year, and I'm not.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
And that was not convinced with all kinds of craziness
in the front office and your and your I mean,
like if your coach having to come in at the
last second to run the team.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Yeah, last thing. Uh It's it's kind of a two parter.
But let's let's start with Steph. What does he do
next year? Because Kurr is not under contract for next year.
Only played for Kerr after after playing for Action Jackson. Like,
(35:39):
I mean, I obviously still wants to play. I mean, like,
what what happens there? Because that was this is one
of those they keep kind of throwing things at to
like the temporary fixed thing. Oh, Jimmy Butler, this year,
you know, come up with a new idea to to
keep that playing this thing out Clay went by bye
last year, Jimmy Butler, and of course Jimmy Butler breaks
down what happens there for next season.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
I could see a last dance scenario. I could see
Steve signing up for one more year and and and
everybody and like acknowledging this is going to be our
last run. Whatever it is, this is going to be
it that that to me, it's hard for me to
imagine the Warriors believing that they can chase a championship.
(36:24):
As crazy as it is to even say that, they're
still in that realm, they still have some part of
their mindset believing that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
If Jimmy Butler didn't get hurt, we'd be right there.
Yeah exactly. No.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
No, the only way you can continue to sell that
dream or believe that dream is if Steve Kerr is
the head coach, any other any anybody else coming in.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
And you're just you're just feeling a basketball because you
have to just.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Playing out the string. And I don't know that either,
Joe lacub like, I don't.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
I think people people put.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
On Steph the idea that if if he's not playing
for a championship, that that he's either being wasted or
he's going to be incredibly unhappy, and and I don't
think that's his mindset. I think his mindset always is
I want to see how far we can get. I
(37:24):
want that, like, I want to see if I can
exceed expectations. Sure, and that's why I believe that even
if if Steve wasn't there, he would take the same approach.
But from a team standpoint, you can kiss the idea
that you're like you would be looking I would be
looking at it and going, Okay, let's let's let's move pieces.
(37:44):
Let's give a bunch of guys that can learn from
Steph in this year so that as we pivot and he.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Steps out the door.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Same question, Lebron James. We had this discussion middle of
the season.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
I went just so you know, like this is a
I want this on record on the pod. Okay, So
I went to war Thunder Lakers last week. I sat
there with my brother. My brother has was an assistant
coach on the men's side for twenty six years. I've
been a head coach. I know people think, well, like
you don't like, I don't. It doesn't have anything to
with that I don't like. Brownie James is not really
(38:24):
an NBA player. He plays in the NBA and that night,
you know, they were so depleted because of injuries, he
played major minutes at the point guard spot. And watching
him when he when he gets past mid court as
they hound him. And you're not talking about Michael Cooper, right,
We're not talking about, you know, one of the elite defenders,
(38:46):
the Mitchell kid at with the off night with the
Miami Heat, right, Davion Mitchell. We're not talking about one
of those guys. We're talking about good, solid defenders just
and he he really struggles just to enter the ball
in the offense, let alone get it to where you
got to get to in the scoring.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
So he was getting sripp as soon as he crossed
mid court.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
He can't do it. He's not an elite shooter, he's
not an elite defender. He's just not an NBA player.
And I know we live in an all or nothing
society where the NBA star or you're a bum like. Look,
there's a lot of levels of basketball he could play at.
This is just not one of them. And I'm I
have no inside knowledge. Like I coached Rob Polinka's son
Durham in AU basketball for a couple of years. We
(39:24):
never talked shop. That's just not how he does it.
He's very, very private in what he does. So I
don't know this, but you have new ownership, right, and
even the old ownership and Polinka, they didn't seem to
bow to the whims of Lebron before this season. There's
no doubt in my mind that you get still get
a lot of eye rolling over Bronning, not just being
(39:45):
on the team but playing sir. So at some point
they need to go, hey, we're good here, But where
is the landing spot? That's that's the big question. Like
it's not that other teams wouldn't take him, but there
has to be a marriage of another team that would
take him that he wants to play for because he
(40:05):
takes his legacy that seriously. And I don't know where
that that marriage is.
Speaker 4 (40:10):
You're talking about Lebron, Yeah, yeah, I don't.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
I don't think there is one. I mean, I don't
think there's another team that he can go has to
be what.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
He has to that guy has to go out with
a victory tour and him and Steph in the same
year would be great for the NBA because even though
Lebron's not really a villain, he would be sort of
villainized and he's he's the one who's brought all this
player movement that had happened before, but never with a
player of his caliber, and then he got Steph who's
never left. Like, it would be great. It would be
the you know, ESPN would make it into the good
(40:41):
versus the evil. Whatever has to happen is but I
just don't know where it happens.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Is Is Lebron James worth that to any other team
right now?
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Again, yes, I just don't know if it's a team
he would play for. Okay, so right, I mean think
of think of the teams that.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
I don't know that there is a team that he
would play for. Like I don't know that he wants
to leave La.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
No, no, I understand that's what I'm saying. I'm saying,
like would the Sons or I don't know, pick irrelevant team, Like,
who's the most irrelevant team in the NBA this I
would have said the Hornets, but they're actually kind of
decent Pelicans, Sacramento, Sacramento.
Speaker 4 (41:17):
They're not doing that. They're not doing who They're not
doing that.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Okay, let's go who else is He's not doing.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
A dog and pony show, because that's what it would be.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
Anybody.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Anybody that is doing that is doing it strictly because
we got nothing else.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
We're just gonna waste a year.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
There are there are teams like that, but he wouldn't
play for teams like that, right, So who's it? Like
there has to be.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
Southern marriage to be I mean, I get it.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
That he just retires and like, hey, I'm out, Lebron
out alternative.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
The only real alternative here is that he takes pennies
on the dollar and he stays with the Lakers for
one more year and they give him the farewell tour.
Speaker 4 (42:01):
That's the only.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
But but he's never offered up that as a possibility. Okay, well,
but there's just too much pride there, beggars, and then
there's the agency there that I get it, But he's
never been in that position. It's he is nay, I understand,
but this is what happened to Alan Iverson, Okay, Whereas
Alan Iverson could never be anything other than Alan Iverson
(42:25):
so late in his career when you're like, hey, you know, look, dude,
you got to come off the bench. Lebron has on
the court at times taken a secondary tert share role
and just kind of let guys do it, which he
never did before. But the money is different. They have
never ever, ever, ever, And he's with an agent that's
like his agent clutches his agency now, right, that's his baby,
(42:46):
that's his legacy. Like I ain't gonna take a I'm
not gonna take a veteran's minimum.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
I'm Lebron James understood. But I if I give any
credence to the possibility that he could move in that direction,
is that he's already had to move in that direction
over the course of this season. Like he no longer
is the rule. It does it comes anywhere close to
the rule of the roost.
Speaker 4 (43:09):
He's not like.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
What he says goes no longer applies on the court.
He's had to He's had to very much have to
take a third rule now JJ is still like doing
things to placate him that if you just on the
face of it, like probably wouldn't do. There's certain things
that he's doing, but he's had to move in that direction.
(43:33):
He just He's going to have to keep.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Moving in that Runney's different, though. These guys are different
with money. They just are.
Speaker 4 (43:40):
I get that.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
It's just a point of pride. Whre you're like, I'm
Lebron James.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
Well then you know what, then there is no farewell tour.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yeah, it's fascinating. Uh what does the league think of JJ?
And I say this because there's lots of things that
they do offensively where I'm like, oh, copy that, that's
pretty good, right, Like he has he's excellent. Yeah, but
the it's almost like a show to him. It's very
(44:08):
It's it's really kind of college sports esque with the
like you're throwing guys under the bus and just we
suck tonight. And he asked him and and again I
find it entertaining, but I I I I think it's
some of it is for entertainment, and I can't figure
out if people, especially players like that. What's your sense?
Speaker 3 (44:33):
Yeah, well, look a lot of it this supplies with
the new ownership, like which direction are they go? And
then really that's the only person that really matters at
this point, you know, people have It's funny because I
always thought that at some point JJ's methods.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Not he's unbelievably arrogant. He just is like like let's
just let's just just just state it, okay, And I
don't and and it's not confidence, it's arrogance. And I'll
defend him from this perspective, like, yes, all duchies appear
to be super super arrogant. Apparently the game was invented
in Durham, North Carolina. I wasn't aware of. It wasn't
aware of. It's called the Naismith complex. No wear this
(45:14):
in college sports. I was talking about a guy goes
to the Final four and suddenly they're doing clinics and
writing books and like, dude, you just you won four games,
Like get over yourself a little bit. But JJ has
that like personified and he is good at it, but
he ain't done anything right, but he's just the level
of arrogance is.
Speaker 4 (45:32):
Like wow, holy cow.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Right, And that supposedly is why college coaches don't work
in the NBA, because in the NBA, it has to
be about the players. In college, it's about the coach.
But he's an NBA coach, he's an NBA player. And
I would also tell you that in order to have
as successful an NBA career as he had, you have
to be an arrogant prick. Yep, you just do because
everybody's telling you can't guard anybody, you can't get a
(45:56):
shot off, and then he just you have to do.
But I that that there's a lot of theatrics there
that are that.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
You have to be.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
You have to be uber confident, bordering on arrogant, but
you can't show it like, you can't put it on
display the way JJ does. Everybody knows he's arrogant.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
Stan van Gundy. The Van Gundy's.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
Arrogant, very arrogant in terms of what their knowledge of
the game and coaching and all that.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
But they put off the ag shucks. Yes, yeah, Doc.
Speaker 4 (46:27):
Rivers, Doc rivers.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Same thing like when they're in front of the microphone,
he ain't. The same thing is when they're in the
locker room, no question, or in a practice. So that's
where JJ does not divide. And I always thought at
some point it's gonna it's gonna bite him in the ass.
Like where he is fortunate right now is that he
(46:50):
has an Austin Reeves who is not going to be
like Austin Reeves is still the Aweeshuck's glad that I
am where I am and this is way more than
I ever dreamed of.
Speaker 2 (47:02):
But Austin reason also that's in front of the in
front of the camera. He has he's got that swagger
when he plays.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
He doesn't he has the swagger, but he also doesn't
have expectations of how he's supposed to be treated. Okay,
like he hasn't reached that point yet. Sure, Luca got
traded there, so he's already taken a hit like and
even then you see some between JJ and Luca. But
(47:28):
Luca is also of the mindset that the European international mindset,
the coach is king. That's what they grow up with,
and the idea that you are going to get rid
of the coach that generally does not expect does not
that's not a belief in international basketball. And so that's
(47:50):
what he's grown up with. So he's not going to
go at JJ. And Lebron has been defanged. So JJ's
in a very unique situation here or where he can
get away with it.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
You're the best. By the way, the new book is
called Coachable by Rick Buker. I'd encourage you to pick
it up right or if his right shoulder, if you're watching.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
A pre order comes out May twelfth, Yeah, but you'll
be getting an early copy.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Doug. I sent you my address a couple weeks ago.
Speaker 4 (48:18):
I know you didn't send it a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
You said it a week ago, and they went out
this week, so it's happening.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
Sounded so much better when I said a couple weeks ago.
I actually didn't look at the date when I texted you,
I was like, why is my address on this text
to Britt Bukeer's like, oh, yeah, his book's coming out,
that's what That's what it is. His lunch is ready
in the other room. Snap his fingers and his wife
will bring him because he just he just worked very
very difficult, very hard for the last forty some odd minutes.
In the meantime, you are the best. I appreciate you
(48:46):
joining me.
Speaker 1 (48:47):
You got it in them then
Host
Doug Gottlieb
Popular Podcasts
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com