February 6, 2026 • 20 mins
George Noory and Dr. Paul Koudounaris explore stories of animal hauntings and visitations, if there is an afterlife for animals like there is for humans, and why the spirits of some pets never return to visit their owners after they die.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you,
doctor Paul Coot and I respect with us as a
PhD from UCLA. And there's two main fields of interest
and focus, being histories of death and animals. He has
written at least three books on the former and has
traveled to more than seventy countries to visit prominent death
related sacred sites while studying the culture traditions that have
(00:29):
evolved around them. Paul, welcome back. Have you been.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I'm well George, and you are an American treasure, so
it is always my pleasure to be here talking to you.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Well, looking forward to this too. How did you get
interested in animals and death?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, you know, it goes back to when I was
a kid. I mean, I guess I was kind of
obsessed with both. I was one of those weird kids
who spent his time, you know, not worrying about the
baseball team, but worrying about what they were going to
write on my tombstone. And and I just always has
had this love, especially for cats. I always had a
love for animals, and so when I wound up doing
(01:06):
my PhD. I really got into the death studies stuff,
and the animal studies was always there in the background,
and eventually I kind of put them both together and
started working on the history of pet cemeteries and animal
ghosts things like.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
That, and what is an animal ghost? What is a
pet ghost?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Well, you know, people don't really think in terms of
animal ghosts. But I'll tell you something, George, if you
were to put together all the different categories of animal hauntings,
animal ghosts, animal apparitions, and animal visitations, they're actually the
most common type of ghost story or haunting, way more important,
(01:44):
way more common than hauntings involving people. It's just that
we don't really think in those terms because historically in
Western culture, Western spirituality has kind of created this bifurcation
that humans are supposed to get an afterlife and animals don't.
Never really thought in terms of animals in the afterlife,
and so, you know, hundreds of years of stories that
(02:07):
we would call them ghost stories got attributed to witches, familiars,
or demons as if or you know, the devil, As
if the devil has nothing better to do then turn
himself into a cat. Or dog and walk through someone's
wall and stare at some cobbler in Strasbourg. But we
would call all these old stories involving you know, these
apporsions of animals, we would call them ghost stories. There's
(02:28):
a whole history of them.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
As predominant as these issues are. Why has it seemed
that we don't talk that much about it?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
You know, as I said, it's really a matter of
Western spirituality creating this bifurcation that humans were somehow number
one and they were granted in after life, and really
bad theology, this idea that animals don't have a soul.
And I know your listeners are probably a little bit
more enlightened and open minded about this stuff. There's no
(02:58):
reason to think if we have a soul, that an
animal shouldn't. And in fact, if you go back to
early Christian times, there was no one saying that animals
didn't have a soul. They were just questioning whether they
were of the same nature as a human beings. And
so you know, if we grant, if we grant humans
a soul, there's no reason to not grant one to
an animal. And there's no reason to think that an
(03:19):
animal shouldn't have an afterlife the same as a human
being does.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Are you convinced that it's real?
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Absolutely. You know, there are a lot of stories which
we can talk about, and you can give you a
lot of examples that have been verified. And I'll tell
you I had a couple experiences myself, and I wouldn't
be surprised if many of your listeners have also. Just
the other day, I was telling a friend of mine,
you know, I'm gonna go on coast to coast and
we'll be talking about animal ghost She said, Yeah, I
gotta tell you this story. This crazy thing happened. My
(03:48):
cat died, and exactly one year to the day after
her cat died, you know, she had taken all of
her cat's stuff. She hadn't thrown it away because she
loved her cat too much to get rid of anything,
and so she had taken all her cat's toys and
put them away. One year to the day when her
cat died, she found the ball that her cat used
to chase around the house. She found it in her shoe.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
And how could that happen?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Right?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Well, these types but these types of stories with pets,
that's why I say they're not like traditional ghost stories. Really,
they take the form more visitations. And these are the
most common kinds of hauntings you get with animals, this
feeling that you know the animal is somehow checking in
on you or giving you some kind of sign. I
had a cat that I lost almost a year ago,
(04:34):
and I'll tell you two real weird things happen. So
the first night after she died, I built a little
altar to her, and I lit a candle for and
as I was going to bed, that candle just started
to spark like a sparkler, like a fireworks. It just
started to spark, and it was just like it kind
of feels like he's checking in on me anyway. And
so a year passes is just last week, a year
(04:58):
had passed and she died, and I went to light
that candle again. That was on this little altar that
I made for At exactly midnight, that candle just snuffed
itself out exactly one year to the day.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
That's amazing. Now, what animal is more apt to come
back as a ghost? A cat, a dog, a frog?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I don't know too many stories about frog ghosts, but
there might be some. I actually can give you.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
A story about a trout ghost, but I'll tell you
it's dogs for sure, And I don't know that that
means that dogs are more spiritually capable of manifesting themselves
or visiting.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
I think it's more a question to just a dog's personality.
You know, A dog is the kind of animal that
is more likely to check in on you while it's alive,
whereas a cat's more independent. And I think that probably
carries over into the afterlife as well. But for sure,
there are a lot more stories about dog ghosts, but
there are stories really about all these animals. I mentioned
the trout ghost, and it's true. I know a story
(05:57):
about a trout ghost. There was a guy. When I
was working on my book about pet cemeteries, I visited
this old estate in England where a guy had a
trout that he had tamed in the eighteen fifties as
his pet. And this trout would come to the top
of the stream and eat out of his hand, And
after the trout died, he made a little grave for
it right next to the stream. And then the guy
(06:18):
eventually died, and the next resident of the house was
writing that he would see this ghostly shape of a
fish swimming around right next to where that grave was.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Now, some people have had animals that have passed on
and they never hear from them again. Why is that, Well.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
You know, it's keep in mind that when it comes
to things like apparitions and hauntings, a lot of times
it's like a television set. You've got to be tuned
into the right channel. So you know, it very well
might be that the animals trying to contact you. I
well might be that the animal's not. But you know,
if the animal is trying to contact you, you've got
(06:58):
to be receptive to it. And a lot of times,
as human beings, I think part of the problem is
we kind of block out with our with our supposed rationality,
we kind of block out messages that don't make sense.
So I think a lot of people may me and
maybe they just block out that kind of communication from
the other world.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Do the animals reincarnate, Paul.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Well, that's a spiritual question that is a little bit
beyond my pay grade. But certainly there are a lot
of there are a lot of belief systems in which
they do. And I'll say this about the belief in reincarnation.
You know, I mentioned that part of the reason that Traditionally,
(07:40):
we didn't talk about animal ghosts. In Western cultures, we
had this bifurcation that you know, animals were the lesser
and uh and you know, so they they didn't really
deserve an afterlife, and human beings were the ones that
had actual souls that could that could pass on. But
when you get into cultures that believe in reincarnation kind
(08:00):
of get a different system because if a soul can
pass between different beings, you know, if my soul had
been a cat or a fish or a fly or
something else and then you know, became a human being,
it's a lot easier for me to believe that they
have a soul and that soul can carry on than
if I live in a system like I say, Western
(08:21):
spirituality that has this kind of hard and dry bifurcation
that we get the souls and they just get something secondary.
Speaker 6 (08:27):
And I know you're gonna want some after hearing this,
this is an amazing story.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
We've got Stephen and Malachi Gregory in Nelson, New Zealand.
Speaker 6 (08:34):
Now I understand that Malachi, who's eight almost nine years
old now, was suffering with not just one or two warts,
but I mean a significant outbreak of warts all over
his body so significant it impacted his ability to really function.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (08:48):
Yeah, he was having trouble even holding a pencil to
right Epi's book.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Actually, that got me thinking about it. I'm not surprised.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
It is an amazing immuno modulator, and so I can
see that it would work.
Speaker 6 (09:00):
So at what point did you see that there was
actually improvements really going to work.
Speaker 7 (09:04):
Well, look, we really started to notice it around twelve weeks.
You can see these things actually getting smaller and smaller
and then going down to with just little red marks.
The whole things are gone, and we're talking about what's
you know one that size the warner. I thought, no way,
that's gonna Wow. That's just been miraculous to see them
get into a pair of shoes.
Speaker 6 (09:24):
Yes, how wonderful.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
It's great to see. I'm so happy and yeah.
Speaker 6 (09:28):
Compident, absolutely wonderful.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Friends that have seen it, that is blown away.
Speaker 6 (09:32):
TI, this is awesome.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Yeah, this is awesome.
Speaker 8 (09:34):
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Speaker 2 (09:56):
If you were very close to your pet, is it
highly probable that it would come back in its afterlife?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Well, again, that depends on how receptive you are. I
know people who were who were incredibly close to their
pets that never felt they had a sign or a visitation.
But I'm telling you that, and I'm sure we'll get
some calls on this with people telling us that they
believe they had some kind of visitation. It's very very common.
(10:31):
And by the visit, by visitation, I don't mean you
know you wake up in the middle of the night
there's this ghostly shape of a dog standing over you.
What I mean is you know you were in bed
and you feel some strange sensation that feels like your
dog's paws on the bed, but you don't see anything,
or that all that you put away has suddenly been
pushed out to the center of the room. Really really common,
(10:53):
and people can see it in all kinds of places.
I have a friend who is a complete skeptic, and
and she told me that her dog had died and
she called me on the phone in a pang. She's like,
I looked up at a cloud and this cloud has
taken the shape of my dog's face, so you know,
and she you know, that might be a little bit
of wistful thinking there with the cloud, but it just
(11:16):
depends on how receptive you are are.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
There many animal cemeteries around the country.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
In the United States, George, there's at least six hundred
of them, wow, and really a lot. The United States
has more pet cemeteries animal cemeteries and the rest of
the world combined. It's kind of an American specialty we
have because in the United States there's a great diversity
of ways we treat an animal after it dies. There
(11:43):
are regional variants, you know, people think of when people
think of pet cemeteries, either think of Stephen King or
they think of, you know, a cemetery that looks kind
of exactly like a replica of a human cemetery. In fact,
there are a whole lot of different types in the
United States. You know, where I live out in the
Mojave Desert, there are kind of you know, unspoken like
(12:07):
locals only secrets, but vast pet cemeteries out here there's
one in Boulder City, Nevada. One out by Bishop, California,
winter Haven, California, these Aha, Arizona, these vast pet cemeteries
on public land that are free burial sites where everything
is homemade. It's a very different type. So we've really
got a lot of different types. And we've got pet
(12:27):
cemeteries for special you know, specialized peed cemeteries for different
types of animals. There's a wonderful pet cemetery in Alabama
solely for solely for coon dogs. You know, it's got
to be a raccoon hunting hound or it is not
allowed to be buried in that cemetery. So we've really
got a vast panoply of ways to bury your animals
(12:48):
in the United States.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Partly is it you mean to put your animal down
if it's ill or sick?
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Well, I think so, George, and I think that most
animal lovers believe that. I remember some years ago I
had a cat who was a very strong animal, and
I had no idea she was sick until the very end.
She suddenly took ill one day and I took her
into a vat and they did a bunch of tests,
and they came back and they told me, you know,
(13:16):
we can't believe she's even still alive. Her blood is poisoned.
And they told me it's like, you know, she's probably
got a week left if you need more time with her.
But the question for me wasn't if I needed more
time with her, It's like, does she need more time
with me? And if her blood's poisoned and she's in
pain and she's only got a week to live, I
think it. I absolutely thought at the time it was
the humane thing to do to let her go, and
(13:37):
I think many people would agree.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Sounds like doctor Kavorkian, right.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
The doctor Kavorkie of animals.
Speaker 7 (13:44):
That's me.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Now, you've been to many countries, seventy plus countries. What
gets you to those countries?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Well, a love of research. I mean, just even on
this pet cemetery research alone. I mean I went all
the way to Egypt just to photograph one pet cemetery. Now,
when I worked on a book about the history of
domestic cats and I went down to New Zealand solely
to photograph one cat statue, I really believe that you've
(14:14):
got to go out there in the field and you've
got to experience these things. And these places firsthand to
understand them.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Tell me the difference between a cat and a dog
in terms of as a pet.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
So, George, I've never had a dog as a pet. Really, no, No,
I'm a dedicated cat guy. But I think I will
go with kind of the standard. I think I'll go
with the standard line that cats are more independent, and
that's why I've always had cats. You know, I'm always
kind of on the go. It would just you know,
(14:52):
it's like a dog takes a little bit more upkeep.
I love dogs, by the way, George, me not having
one is not because of any animal between myself and
the canine species, they just don't fit my lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
They used to have a lot of huskies in labs,
both good great breeds.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, those are beautiful ones.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
And one cat and eat patches that I got for
my kids. When I was smaller, I was working with
Rolston Purina in a public relations campaign and they had
a cat as a prop and they didn't know what
to do with the little thing afterwards, so I said,
I'll take it home. So I took it home for
the kids, and they loved them for a while.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
They lived.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
A life span of a cat is longer than a dog,
isn't it?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Generally speaking? It is, of course, you know, I always
say about cats and dogs, and here is a big difference.
To most cat owners, a cat's just a cat. To
most dog owners, a dog is a specific breed.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
You know.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
The breed is much more important when it comes to dogs.
If you ask a cat owner, you know, what kind
of pet do you have, They'll just tell you I
have a cat. If you ask a dog owner, they're
going to tell you I have a husky, or I
have a spaniel, or I have something else and so uh.
You know, some of those smaller dogs and the chihuahuas
and so forth, they can live a real long time.
But those big dogs, you know, eight or nine years
(16:09):
is usually all they've got.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Where the paulkud Dinaris, we're talking about animals and ghosts.
His book is so one of his book is called
Faithful One to Death. What are the other ones that
you got, Paul?
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Well, I have a book that about the history of
domestic cats called a Cat's Tale, And I've got three
books about death, Empire of Death, Heavenly Bodies, about jeweled skeletons.
I don't know if you remember this we I came
out to Colorado and we did an episode of Beyond
Belief Belief the Elets Yeah, and one called Momento.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Mary Fantastic, give us a quick story of a ghost tale.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
One of my favorites. So some of your listeners may
be familiar with a term called crisis apparition, and a
crisis apparition it's a kind of haunting, but it's not
a typical ghost story. It only occurs once, and it
occurs at a time of great stress. You know, if
something bad is happening on the other end, we might
(17:10):
get an apparition or of a person or a thing.
In nineteen thirty one, there was a woman named Marie
Demmler in Savannah, Georgia. She was in she had gone
into the hospital to give birth, and she had left
her dog Mac at home with her sister. And so
she's in the hospital. She's just given birth. She's still
(17:31):
sitting there in the ward. Her dog comes walking through
the ward up to her bed. And not only does
her dog come walking into the hospital, her dog was
dripping with water. Dog was wet, and her dog pressed
its hand and pressed its nose into Marie's hand and
prets this cold nose into Marie's hand, and its nose
(17:51):
was wet too, and she's like, what the hell is
my dog doing? Next time my hospital bed here, and
the dog turned around and walked away and left these
little wet paw prince. She started screaming for the nurse.
You know my dog, my dogs just appeared in the hospital.
Why is my dog here in the hospital. And they're like, well,
there's no dog here. And I look look at the
look at the little wet footprints, a little wet paw
(18:12):
prints leading away from my room. There were wet paw
prints everybody saw. But then they looked out of the hall.
There's no dog' So, wondering what the hell or dog
is doing in the hospital, calls her sister and finds
out her dog has just died. And her dog had
died because it had drowned in a river. So her
dog appeared to her at the very end of its life.
(18:33):
This this, as I called it, crisis apparition, this haunting,
this this visitation to press its nose into her hand
one last time, just kind of let her know, Hey,
you know, I love you, I'm here for you, I'm
always looking out for you.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
What do you think is on the other side for
an animal, is it the same as a human?
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Well, I would. I I really believe that whatever life
force animates us animates of them. I'm very democrats about it,
so I would, I would assume. So you know one
of the popular theories. I'm sure you've heard of the
Rainbow Bridge. I'm sure a lot of your listeners are
familiar with it. And I'll let I'll have you know,
by the way, I was the first person when I
worked on that book and Faith Waalent to Death, I
(19:17):
was the first person to ever track down the actual
author of it, the Rainbow Bridge and get an interview
with her. And it's a very interesting story behind the
Rainbow Bridge. But you know, a lot of people gravitate
towards the Rainbow Bridge and this idea that there's a
kind of waiting space where animals will wait for us
and meet up with us. And in a sense, it's
(19:38):
kind of like purgatory for animals. I mean, they're not
working off their sins, but they're not moving on to
paradise immediately either. They're kind of waiting for us and
this edeal and then we cross over with them together.
So that has become one of the kind of pop
culture visions of what happens to animals. They kind of
wait for us in an edel until we're ready to
(19:59):
meet up with them again.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Listen to more Coast to Coast a M every weeknight
at one a m. Eastern, and go to Coast to
Coasta m dot com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you,
doctor Paul Coot and I respect with us as a
PhD from UCLA. And there's two main fields of interest
and focus, being histories of death and animals. He has
written at least three books on the former and has
traveled to more than seventy countries to visit prominent death
related sacred sites while studying the culture traditions that have
(00:29):
evolved around them. Paul, welcome back. Have you been.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
I'm well George, and you are an American treasure, so
it is always my pleasure to be here talking to you.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Well, looking forward to this too. How did you get
interested in animals and death?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Yeah, you know, it goes back to when I was
a kid. I mean, I guess I was kind of
obsessed with both. I was one of those weird kids
who spent his time, you know, not worrying about the
baseball team, but worrying about what they were going to
write on my tombstone. And and I just always has
had this love, especially for cats. I always had a
love for animals, and so when I wound up doing
(01:06):
my PhD. I really got into the death studies stuff,
and the animal studies was always there in the background,
and eventually I kind of put them both together and
started working on the history of pet cemeteries and animal
ghosts things like.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
That, and what is an animal ghost? What is a
pet ghost?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Well, you know, people don't really think in terms of
animal ghosts. But I'll tell you something, George, if you
were to put together all the different categories of animal hauntings,
animal ghosts, animal apparitions, and animal visitations, they're actually the
most common type of ghost story or haunting, way more important,
(01:44):
way more common than hauntings involving people. It's just that
we don't really think in those terms because historically in
Western culture, Western spirituality has kind of created this bifurcation
that humans are supposed to get an afterlife and animals don't.
Never really thought in terms of animals in the afterlife,
and so, you know, hundreds of years of stories that
(02:07):
we would call them ghost stories got attributed to witches, familiars,
or demons as if or you know, the devil, As
if the devil has nothing better to do then turn
himself into a cat. Or dog and walk through someone's
wall and stare at some cobbler in Strasbourg. But we
would call all these old stories involving you know, these
apporsions of animals, we would call them ghost stories. There's
(02:28):
a whole history of them.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
As predominant as these issues are. Why has it seemed
that we don't talk that much about it?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
You know, as I said, it's really a matter of
Western spirituality creating this bifurcation that humans were somehow number
one and they were granted in after life, and really
bad theology, this idea that animals don't have a soul.
And I know your listeners are probably a little bit
more enlightened and open minded about this stuff. There's no
(02:58):
reason to think if we have a soul, that an
animal shouldn't. And in fact, if you go back to
early Christian times, there was no one saying that animals
didn't have a soul. They were just questioning whether they
were of the same nature as a human beings. And
so you know, if we grant, if we grant humans
a soul, there's no reason to not grant one to
an animal. And there's no reason to think that an
(03:19):
animal shouldn't have an afterlife the same as a human
being does.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Are you convinced that it's real?
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Absolutely. You know, there are a lot of stories which
we can talk about, and you can give you a
lot of examples that have been verified. And I'll tell
you I had a couple experiences myself, and I wouldn't
be surprised if many of your listeners have also. Just
the other day, I was telling a friend of mine,
you know, I'm gonna go on coast to coast and
we'll be talking about animal ghost She said, Yeah, I
gotta tell you this story. This crazy thing happened. My
(03:48):
cat died, and exactly one year to the day after
her cat died, you know, she had taken all of
her cat's stuff. She hadn't thrown it away because she
loved her cat too much to get rid of anything,
and so she had taken all her cat's toys and
put them away. One year to the day when her
cat died, she found the ball that her cat used
to chase around the house. She found it in her shoe.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
And how could that happen?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Right?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Well, these types but these types of stories with pets,
that's why I say they're not like traditional ghost stories. Really,
they take the form more visitations. And these are the
most common kinds of hauntings you get with animals, this
feeling that you know the animal is somehow checking in
on you or giving you some kind of sign. I
had a cat that I lost almost a year ago,
(04:34):
and I'll tell you two real weird things happen. So
the first night after she died, I built a little
altar to her, and I lit a candle for and
as I was going to bed, that candle just started
to spark like a sparkler, like a fireworks. It just
started to spark, and it was just like it kind
of feels like he's checking in on me anyway. And
so a year passes is just last week, a year
(04:58):
had passed and she died, and I went to light
that candle again. That was on this little altar that
I made for At exactly midnight, that candle just snuffed
itself out exactly one year to the day.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
That's amazing. Now, what animal is more apt to come
back as a ghost? A cat, a dog, a frog?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I don't know too many stories about frog ghosts, but
there might be some. I actually can give you.
Speaker 5 (05:24):
A story about a trout ghost, but I'll tell you
it's dogs for sure, And I don't know that that
means that dogs are more spiritually capable of manifesting themselves
or visiting.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
I think it's more a question to just a dog's personality.
You know, A dog is the kind of animal that
is more likely to check in on you while it's alive,
whereas a cat's more independent. And I think that probably
carries over into the afterlife as well. But for sure,
there are a lot more stories about dog ghosts, but
there are stories really about all these animals. I mentioned
the trout ghost, and it's true. I know a story
(05:57):
about a trout ghost. There was a guy. When I
was working on my book about pet cemeteries, I visited
this old estate in England where a guy had a
trout that he had tamed in the eighteen fifties as
his pet. And this trout would come to the top
of the stream and eat out of his hand, And
after the trout died, he made a little grave for
it right next to the stream. And then the guy
(06:18):
eventually died, and the next resident of the house was
writing that he would see this ghostly shape of a
fish swimming around right next to where that grave was.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Now, some people have had animals that have passed on
and they never hear from them again. Why is that, Well.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
You know, it's keep in mind that when it comes
to things like apparitions and hauntings, a lot of times
it's like a television set. You've got to be tuned
into the right channel. So you know, it very well
might be that the animals trying to contact you. I
well might be that the animal's not. But you know,
if the animal is trying to contact you, you've got
(06:58):
to be receptive to it. And a lot of times,
as human beings, I think part of the problem is
we kind of block out with our with our supposed rationality,
we kind of block out messages that don't make sense.
So I think a lot of people may me and
maybe they just block out that kind of communication from
the other world.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Do the animals reincarnate, Paul.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Well, that's a spiritual question that is a little bit
beyond my pay grade. But certainly there are a lot
of there are a lot of belief systems in which
they do. And I'll say this about the belief in reincarnation.
You know, I mentioned that part of the reason that Traditionally,
(07:40):
we didn't talk about animal ghosts. In Western cultures, we
had this bifurcation that you know, animals were the lesser
and uh and you know, so they they didn't really
deserve an afterlife, and human beings were the ones that
had actual souls that could that could pass on. But
when you get into cultures that believe in reincarnation kind
(08:00):
of get a different system because if a soul can
pass between different beings, you know, if my soul had
been a cat or a fish or a fly or
something else and then you know, became a human being,
it's a lot easier for me to believe that they
have a soul and that soul can carry on than
if I live in a system like I say, Western
(08:21):
spirituality that has this kind of hard and dry bifurcation
that we get the souls and they just get something secondary.
Speaker 6 (08:27):
And I know you're gonna want some after hearing this,
this is an amazing story.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
We've got Stephen and Malachi Gregory in Nelson, New Zealand.
Speaker 6 (08:34):
Now I understand that Malachi, who's eight almost nine years
old now, was suffering with not just one or two warts,
but I mean a significant outbreak of warts all over
his body so significant it impacted his ability to really function.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (08:48):
Yeah, he was having trouble even holding a pencil to
right Epi's book.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
Actually, that got me thinking about it. I'm not surprised.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
It is an amazing immuno modulator, and so I can
see that it would work.
Speaker 6 (09:00):
So at what point did you see that there was
actually improvements really going to work.
Speaker 7 (09:04):
Well, look, we really started to notice it around twelve weeks.
You can see these things actually getting smaller and smaller
and then going down to with just little red marks.
The whole things are gone, and we're talking about what's
you know one that size the warner. I thought, no way,
that's gonna Wow. That's just been miraculous to see them
get into a pair of shoes.
Speaker 6 (09:24):
Yes, how wonderful.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
It's great to see. I'm so happy and yeah.
Speaker 6 (09:28):
Compident, absolutely wonderful.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Friends that have seen it, that is blown away.
Speaker 6 (09:32):
TI, this is awesome.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Yeah, this is awesome.
Speaker 8 (09:34):
Another amazing story. Why we're talking about carnivora. Call them
to awaken your immune system and protect yourself now called
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That's one eight six six eight three six eighty seven
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Speaker 2 (09:56):
If you were very close to your pet, is it
highly probable that it would come back in its afterlife?
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Well, again, that depends on how receptive you are. I
know people who were who were incredibly close to their
pets that never felt they had a sign or a visitation.
But I'm telling you that, and I'm sure we'll get
some calls on this with people telling us that they
believe they had some kind of visitation. It's very very common.
(10:31):
And by the visit, by visitation, I don't mean you
know you wake up in the middle of the night
there's this ghostly shape of a dog standing over you.
What I mean is you know you were in bed
and you feel some strange sensation that feels like your
dog's paws on the bed, but you don't see anything,
or that all that you put away has suddenly been
pushed out to the center of the room. Really really common,
(10:53):
and people can see it in all kinds of places.
I have a friend who is a complete skeptic, and
and she told me that her dog had died and
she called me on the phone in a pang. She's like,
I looked up at a cloud and this cloud has
taken the shape of my dog's face, so you know,
and she you know, that might be a little bit
of wistful thinking there with the cloud, but it just
(11:16):
depends on how receptive you are are.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
There many animal cemeteries around the country.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
In the United States, George, there's at least six hundred
of them, wow, and really a lot. The United States
has more pet cemeteries animal cemeteries and the rest of
the world combined. It's kind of an American specialty we
have because in the United States there's a great diversity
of ways we treat an animal after it dies. There
(11:43):
are regional variants, you know, people think of when people
think of pet cemeteries, either think of Stephen King or
they think of, you know, a cemetery that looks kind
of exactly like a replica of a human cemetery. In fact,
there are a whole lot of different types in the
United States. You know, where I live out in the
Mojave Desert, there are kind of you know, unspoken like
(12:07):
locals only secrets, but vast pet cemeteries out here there's
one in Boulder City, Nevada. One out by Bishop, California,
winter Haven, California, these Aha, Arizona, these vast pet cemeteries
on public land that are free burial sites where everything
is homemade. It's a very different type. So we've really
got a lot of different types. And we've got pet
(12:27):
cemeteries for special you know, specialized peed cemeteries for different
types of animals. There's a wonderful pet cemetery in Alabama
solely for solely for coon dogs. You know, it's got
to be a raccoon hunting hound or it is not
allowed to be buried in that cemetery. So we've really
got a vast panoply of ways to bury your animals
(12:48):
in the United States.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Partly is it you mean to put your animal down
if it's ill or sick?
Speaker 4 (12:55):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Well, I think so, George, and I think that most
animal lovers believe that. I remember some years ago I
had a cat who was a very strong animal, and
I had no idea she was sick until the very end.
She suddenly took ill one day and I took her
into a vat and they did a bunch of tests,
and they came back and they told me, you know,
(13:16):
we can't believe she's even still alive. Her blood is poisoned.
And they told me it's like, you know, she's probably
got a week left if you need more time with her.
But the question for me wasn't if I needed more
time with her, It's like, does she need more time
with me? And if her blood's poisoned and she's in
pain and she's only got a week to live, I
think it. I absolutely thought at the time it was
the humane thing to do to let her go, and
(13:37):
I think many people would agree.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Sounds like doctor Kavorkian, right.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
The doctor Kavorkie of animals.
Speaker 7 (13:44):
That's me.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Now, you've been to many countries, seventy plus countries. What
gets you to those countries?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Well, a love of research. I mean, just even on
this pet cemetery research alone. I mean I went all
the way to Egypt just to photograph one pet cemetery. Now,
when I worked on a book about the history of
domestic cats and I went down to New Zealand solely
to photograph one cat statue, I really believe that you've
(14:14):
got to go out there in the field and you've
got to experience these things. And these places firsthand to
understand them.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Tell me the difference between a cat and a dog
in terms of as a pet.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
So, George, I've never had a dog as a pet. Really, no, No,
I'm a dedicated cat guy. But I think I will
go with kind of the standard. I think I'll go
with the standard line that cats are more independent, and
that's why I've always had cats. You know, I'm always
kind of on the go. It would just you know,
(14:52):
it's like a dog takes a little bit more upkeep.
I love dogs, by the way, George, me not having
one is not because of any animal between myself and
the canine species, they just don't fit my lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
They used to have a lot of huskies in labs,
both good great breeds.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, those are beautiful ones.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
And one cat and eat patches that I got for
my kids. When I was smaller, I was working with
Rolston Purina in a public relations campaign and they had
a cat as a prop and they didn't know what
to do with the little thing afterwards, so I said,
I'll take it home. So I took it home for
the kids, and they loved them for a while.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
They lived.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
A life span of a cat is longer than a dog,
isn't it?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Generally speaking? It is, of course, you know, I always
say about cats and dogs, and here is a big difference.
To most cat owners, a cat's just a cat. To
most dog owners, a dog is a specific breed.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
You know.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
The breed is much more important when it comes to dogs.
If you ask a cat owner, you know, what kind
of pet do you have, They'll just tell you I
have a cat. If you ask a dog owner, they're
going to tell you I have a husky, or I
have a spaniel, or I have something else and so uh.
You know, some of those smaller dogs and the chihuahuas
and so forth, they can live a real long time.
But those big dogs, you know, eight or nine years
(16:09):
is usually all they've got.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Where the paulkud Dinaris, we're talking about animals and ghosts.
His book is so one of his book is called
Faithful One to Death. What are the other ones that
you got, Paul?
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Well, I have a book that about the history of
domestic cats called a Cat's Tale, And I've got three
books about death, Empire of Death, Heavenly Bodies, about jeweled skeletons.
I don't know if you remember this we I came
out to Colorado and we did an episode of Beyond
Belief Belief the Elets Yeah, and one called Momento.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Mary Fantastic, give us a quick story of a ghost tale.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
One of my favorites. So some of your listeners may
be familiar with a term called crisis apparition, and a
crisis apparition it's a kind of haunting, but it's not
a typical ghost story. It only occurs once, and it
occurs at a time of great stress. You know, if
something bad is happening on the other end, we might
(17:10):
get an apparition or of a person or a thing.
In nineteen thirty one, there was a woman named Marie
Demmler in Savannah, Georgia. She was in she had gone
into the hospital to give birth, and she had left
her dog Mac at home with her sister. And so
she's in the hospital. She's just given birth. She's still
(17:31):
sitting there in the ward. Her dog comes walking through
the ward up to her bed. And not only does
her dog come walking into the hospital, her dog was
dripping with water. Dog was wet, and her dog pressed
its hand and pressed its nose into Marie's hand and
prets this cold nose into Marie's hand, and its nose
(17:51):
was wet too, and she's like, what the hell is
my dog doing? Next time my hospital bed here, and
the dog turned around and walked away and left these
little wet paw prince. She started screaming for the nurse.
You know my dog, my dogs just appeared in the hospital.
Why is my dog here in the hospital. And they're like, well,
there's no dog here. And I look look at the
look at the little wet footprints, a little wet paw
(18:12):
prints leading away from my room. There were wet paw
prints everybody saw. But then they looked out of the hall.
There's no dog' So, wondering what the hell or dog
is doing in the hospital, calls her sister and finds
out her dog has just died. And her dog had
died because it had drowned in a river. So her
dog appeared to her at the very end of its life.
(18:33):
This this, as I called it, crisis apparition, this haunting,
this this visitation to press its nose into her hand
one last time, just kind of let her know, Hey,
you know, I love you, I'm here for you, I'm
always looking out for you.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
What do you think is on the other side for
an animal, is it the same as a human?
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Well, I would. I I really believe that whatever life
force animates us animates of them. I'm very democrats about it,
so I would, I would assume. So you know one
of the popular theories. I'm sure you've heard of the
Rainbow Bridge. I'm sure a lot of your listeners are
familiar with it. And I'll let I'll have you know,
by the way, I was the first person when I
worked on that book and Faith Waalent to Death, I
(19:17):
was the first person to ever track down the actual
author of it, the Rainbow Bridge and get an interview
with her. And it's a very interesting story behind the
Rainbow Bridge. But you know, a lot of people gravitate
towards the Rainbow Bridge and this idea that there's a
kind of waiting space where animals will wait for us
and meet up with us. And in a sense, it's
(19:38):
kind of like purgatory for animals. I mean, they're not
working off their sins, but they're not moving on to
paradise immediately either. They're kind of waiting for us and
this edeal and then we cross over with them together.
So that has become one of the kind of pop
culture visions of what happens to animals. They kind of
wait for us in an edel until we're ready to
(19:59):
meet up with them again.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Listen to more Coast to Coast a M every weeknight
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