August 7, 2026 • 39 mins
Dr. Eric W. Davis joins Captain Ron to discuss his knowledge on confirmed UFO and UAP crash retrievals, bodies, and the locations in which they took place. He also shares the never ending road blocks he was up against while in AATIP (Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program) and the UAP Task Force.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
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and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
With Captain Rong.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
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(00:41):
your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week on Beyond
Contact looks for the latest news ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we talk.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
With the top experts. Welcome to Beyond Contact. I am
Captain Ron, and today we have the great honor of
speaking with doctor Eric Davis. Doctor Davis is an astrophysicist
whose career has focused on advanced propulsion concepts, space time,
and theoretical physics. He has publicly acknowledged working in the
government's OSAPP and ATIP programs, as well as many others.
(01:28):
He is one of the most respected figures at the
intersection of cutting edge physics, aerospace research, and the ongoing
search to better understand both the UAP phenomenon and NHI itself.
It's a great honor to have him here with us today.
Hi doctor Davis, good to see again.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
Hi Ron, Thank you very much. It's great to see
you too. And as we were talking about previously, I
really enjoyed contact in the desert. That was my first one,
and I consider it to be like the woodstock of euthology.
I was really thrilled to be there.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Oh that's great. We loved having you. It was a
lot of fun.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You know. I feel like you're on the short list
of people who have more knowledge on what our government
may know about NHI and UAPs and appreciating all of
your NDAs and clearances and all of that. What can
you share with the audience what we actually may have
as far as non human craft and biologics are concerned.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
So we have recovered craft worldwide, not just in the
United States, and they range from really destroyed to in
tac craft in TAC craft that were landed and nothing
happens structurally to them, and they're so they're fully there
with all their internal components and so forth, and so
that number is classified but as south of forty total
(02:41):
over the previous eighty years and nhis. I couldn't get
a real strong handle on that. That's one of the
more segregated components from the hardware. And I'm a hardware guy.
I'm not involved in zenobiology as you might call it.
That's not my forte And I couldn't develop very good
(03:02):
inside channels to find those people that were working with
or had been working with recovered NHI bodies. So I'm
only aware of the ones that I officially know that
were recovered the four at on the Foster Ranch in Corona,
New Mexico, which has been mislabeled as the Roswell crash
(03:23):
because it was the five to ninth bombardment group at
Roswell Army Airfield that recovered it at the Foster Ranch
in Corona, and Corona's one hundred and some miles from
Roswell that one. And then there was one single NHI
body that was recovered from the crash of a craft
in Siodaticunya, Mexico. Sorry, Mexico, which is across the Rio
(03:43):
Grande River from Del Rio, Texas, and that was recovered
by the Mexican Army, which later decided it didn't want
to do anything further with it because it was beyond
their capability to do anything with so they called in
the US Air Force to recover. So that one had
one single body. So there was four on the Corona crash,
one with the Mexico crash, and I am not aware
(04:06):
of any other ones. We actually had craft, at least
one that I know of, that was deliberately landed and
the ufouts literally walked away from it. So it's always
been hypothesized that that was meant to be a gift
to us, and what good did it do us? We
haven't figured much out from it. We don't see city
buses and aircraft without wings and jet engines, so our
(04:28):
technology has not been able to take advantage of anything
that was learned in the crash retrieval programs that reverse
engineering parts of that. I do know that they weren't
that successful up until eighty nine, and I don't know
in the modern context how much further they've gotten along.
Beyond the surprising comment that Jim MCASKI made to Jeremy
corbell and George Knapp in a video interview that was
(04:52):
done some many weeks ago, where he did allude to
some incremental capabilities had been reverse engine near and they
might have had something to do with triangular craft, and
that was vague to me. But Jim has to stay
within the guardrails of what the dops are allows him
to say publicly. What's even more shocking to me is
(05:13):
they allowed him to say anything at all of that nature,
especially in his book and in the same interview with
Corbella and Knapp where he was able to get inside
of a recovered craft. Anyway, I hadn't gone been able
to get very far with the Nhiyes, I have a
good Cold War era knowledge of where they went historically
(05:33):
before modern times, modern times meaning this century, but I
don't know how many other nhis have been recovered dead
or living, if any. And there were many close encounters
of landings where human witnesses, recipients or witnesses who were
there and saw went up to it, touched it. You've
got the two guys Peniston and Burroughs, who were Air
(05:55):
Force security police at bent Waters Lake and heat the
Air Force Base in England back in December of nineteen
eighty ethic that was and so those two guys were
there in the fort saw the craft, Penniston touched it.
So that's a case where we have two human witnesses
who actually see in touch of craft. We have other
few examples of that. The win in New Mexico that
(06:17):
involved one he is a more scarl and that one
left evidence behind that you could preserve, measure and make
estimates from. So it's a hard net, especially contact with
nhis That one I got through an interview I did
with President George Herbert Walker Bush back in the early
two thousands, no longer involved in Texas state politics or
(06:38):
national politics, and he did reveal to me in the
conversation that he was brief as the incoming CIA director
in the Ford administration about the existence of the hollom
And landing event of three UAP craft. One of those
three landed on the tarmac, and how a helicopter crew
(06:59):
was on its way to White Sands Missile Range to
film a new missile test well. Mid flight, they were
called by the traffic control tower at Hollomand to return
to Holloman and film what was happening there instead which
they got there, and then they filmed the approach of
three craft, one of which landed on the tarmac, the
(07:19):
other two went away and apparently a gang way came
down onto the ground and down walked what we would
say is a Nordic looking uphone, not or NHI Nordic
in the Synstad's tall stature white. However, in Bob Emmenager's book,
the companion book to his Emmy nominated documentary UFO's Fast
(07:42):
President in Future, he's got a schematic of that that
came from the Department of Defense. And the reason is
because that documentary film and its updated version in nineteen
seventy six, which included cattle mutilations and Jacques Lee as
a co host, that was still a Sandler Emmenager of production.
They were both sponsored by the Department of Defense and
(08:02):
the MacArthur Foundation. So they have a taxonomy at NHI
beings that have been witnessed, many of him investigated by
Project Bluebook, many of him investigated by intelligence agencies that
didn't want to identify themselves, and then they had a
taxonomy of UFO or UAP craft configurations. So one of
them is the one that was noted to come down
(08:24):
the gangplank the exit ramp, if you will. I don't
know what the technical name for those things are that
met with CIA and Air Force representatives on the tarmac.
When I look at it looks Egyptian to me based
on headgear and the facial structure a little small on
the jaw. The Senior President Bush described that very head
configuration that he had been told about during his intake
(08:49):
briefing or introductory briefing as the new CIA director. And
he described that scenery based on what he was told
by the liaison officer, the liaison officer from the Pentagon,
the go between the CIA and the Pentagon, So it
was a Nordic. Got the facial structure that you'll see
in m. Nigger's book. That looks Egyptian to me based
(09:09):
on the covering. It holds a staff in his hand.
Bush wasn't allowed to get information on that.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
We take a quick break here, we would come back.
We're going to ask you about some of the evidence
for NHI and these recovered craft. You're listening to Beyond
Contact and the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal
podcast network. We are back on beyond contact. We're speaking
(09:53):
with doctor Eric Davis. Doctor Davis, what do you think
the most publicly discussable evidence for their being an NHI
presence on Earth is.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
I do know that our intelligence agencies collected intelligence on
a foreign adversaries crash retrieval event. They had something during
the late Cold War, the very late Cold War, just
about the time it ended, actually, and there was a
crash retrieval on the other side of the Earth, and
they had recovered a craft whose configuration is comparable to
(10:24):
the tic TAC that the Ussnimits encountered in the first
week of November two thousand and four, except it was
twice as big. This craft was brought down after extrenuous effort,
I should say a great deal of effort. This country
deployed its jet fighters, helicopters, ground air missiles, and after
a period of time only one errant not unplanned ground
(10:49):
air missile actually didn't quite hit it, but exploded near
one came close to the target enough to bring it down,
and it crashed in a boulder field and split open,
so it didn't become wreckage debris everywhere like a typical
airliner crash with chunks. It became one big chunk that
was split, cracked open, and they recovered four Nhi bodies
(11:11):
which were consistent in size, dimensions, configurations, and approximate weight
and morphology as the guys that were recovered in Corona
on the Foster Ranch and the one that was recovered
in Ciudautacunya, Mexico. So again those are the grays, I
can tell you that. And there were rulers meter sticks
at that country lying next to the bodies and the
(11:34):
body bags. I did not see photographs of the bodies
before the bag, but the air was removed so you
could clearly see the outline of the body. It had
four limbs that I could see. The limbs were diminutive,
the body was diminutive, but the head was large, and
it was your typical Nhi had and it was a
(11:55):
very interesting comparison. There was sunlight getting inside the opening
of the craft and you could see configuration of stuff inside,
technical things that were not familiar. They didn't look like
a human cockpit or chairs, no shoulder straps, none of that.
It was very unusual. And then because of the angle
(12:16):
of the sun in the sky with respect to the
opening side of the opening was in a shadow, so
I couldn't see what was in the shadow. There were trucks,
military trucks, military medics, and there were photos reports. Everything
was in the language of that country. However, our intelligence
agencies recovered that information through human intelligence gathering and were
(12:37):
able to translate all of the figure captions on photographs
and written documents into English, and so you could understand
what was happening there. So that was an interesting thing there.
I do not know whether there have been other nh
eyes recovered elsewhere around the world. I can tell you
(12:57):
that fully two thirds of all all crash retrievals around
the globe are in the maritime environment. They're not on
the land. Only one third of them are on the land,
so most of them have been recovered in the maritime environment.
That's one of the most covert operations in the United
States government is the Navy Undersea Operation. I had attempted
(13:18):
back in two thousand to contact a Navy captain who
worked on crash retrievals with TRW, and he was already
retired by then working at I won't say who it is,
but it's a federally funded research and development corporation on
the East coast, and he had the undersea surveillance undersea
warfare portfolio because that institute that ffarty C serviced one
(13:42):
of the military well service to the US military, I'll
say the Pentagon in general. And I engaged him on
a conversation on that about under UFO slash USO object,
you know, undersea objects that had been detected and whatnot,
and he wouldn't go there with me because he said
the facts and nature and capabilities of our undersea surveillance
(14:06):
system and undersee recovery technologies as off limits to me.
So unfortunately he could allude to yes, when they were
able to see every sort of sea life in the
ocean with the sensing system that's been installed around the globe,
and they could tell the difference between school sufficient pods
(14:26):
of cestaceans and crabs and shrimps and everything else that
lives in the ocean at all depths. And he did
confirm that there were anomalous events that were large in
size dimensions and they could discern its physical shapes and
estimate its dimensions, but he would not say the word
(14:48):
UFO or anomalous under sea craft that would not be
of human origin because even if the you know, the
Soviets in the United States Navy were the most advanced
superpowers on Earth, they wouldn't be able to produce the
type of things they were seeing. He did say they
had anomalous large objects they did move in anomalous fashions
(15:09):
that were uncharacteristic with natural sea life, with geological events
that occurred down in the seafloor, even with the ocean
currents and man made so they couldn't identify it against those.
They just basically eliminate the other alternative explanations and came
(15:29):
down to it was an anomaly, and we know it's
not a natural anomaly. I asked him about calibration of
their instrumentation and their sensitivity. He said that too, is
also super super secret, but he can assure me that
they were highly calibrated, and when they had problems with
an instrument that wasn't that lost its calibration and which
is or malfunctioning overall, they could actually go down to
(15:51):
the bottom of the ocean, recover it, bring it back up,
repair it if it's repaarable, or replace it if it's not,
and return it and reposition it in the previous So
it's very granular detection system and very high resolution is
when I understand it. So they could tell the difference
between natural phenomenon down there and man made and sea
(16:13):
life phenomena. And he did say, like I said, that
they did see some very anomalous things that they could
not identify at all, and they knew their instruments were
fine resolution, fine, I know this is sonar systems. Calibration
was fine. So instrumentation was not the issue here. They
did legitimately detect something. So yeah, so I'm sorry I
(16:35):
can't answer those questions. That was two things I always
wanted to track down, and I could never get that far.
Even during the asapp when I had my security clearances
and I had my deputization letter from Jim Lekatski which
deputized me as an official representative of the Defense Intelligence Agency,
I could not get into those doors to find a
(16:56):
to find the gatekeeper to the NHIS, a gatekeeper who
who has the information on US government agency or whole
of government contact with NHI. Maybe it isn't so much
as an agency as an appointed coordinator type person who's
deputized to represent elements of the government on behalf of
the United States to the NHIS. I couldn't get through.
(17:20):
I couldn't get there. I just didn't didn't know who
to track down. And as a matter of fact, I
know what the reason being is, my security clearances weren't
high enough to find that information. I was awarded top
secret SCI clearances and several compartments of SCI subcompartments. I
should say, well they are compartments. Sorry, so several of
(17:40):
the SCI compartments. But unfortunately the level of UAP and
NHI recoveries or interactions or contact is at the WAVED
and Acknowledge Special Access Program level, and the asset did
not get that kind of security cover, which meant that
Biggler Aerospace Advanced Space Studies would, and by consequent of that,
it would mean that Ertech International Incorporated, which how Putoff
(18:04):
was owned and was the CEO president of, and I
was his chief scientist and senior research physicist at during
that era, so we would have gotten those same clearances
as well. Jim MCCASKI had not been able to go
further for whatever reason I'm not aware of. And then
Senator Harry Reid wrote a letter to Deputy Secretary Defense
(18:25):
William Lynn and William Lynn denied Reid's request to give
the Wavednegolge special Access program. Now he didn't use the
word wavedune acknowledged, read used the word special access program.
The appellation of wavedne acknowledge versus regular SAP is not
a distinction at that point. It's just we want to
(18:45):
talk about the SAP. Then when we if he was successful,
and we can go down that road with the security
infrastructure to get that set up through the NISPOMP. That's NISPOM,
the National Industrial Security Program Program Operation Manual nis POOND
rules for contractors. We'd go down that path, get that
set up, and then we would say, well, we know
(19:08):
that the UAP crash retrieval programs and possibly the recovery
of the NHI bodies and somebody who is in contact
with NHIS that's going to be at the WUSAP level
waved and acknowledged Special Access program WU SAP. WU SAP
is how we call it. Sounds Chinese anyway, So we
(19:29):
would have we that would have been the next step.
We would have worked towards the SAP, and then we
would have said to Jim mcatski, Okay, Jim, you're going
to need to get your program security officer to give
us a wu SAP and then we could go from there.
I know now that I would have had to have
WUSAP clearance to take those extra steps to find the
gatekeepers to the NHI bodies and whoever's communicated with the
(19:54):
nhis like circa the nineteen sixty four Holm and Landing film,
and it would have been interesting to find out if
we had maintained contact or if that was a one off.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Is that only it's like a quick break. We're going
to come back. We're going to ask you what you
think the UFO community gets correct and what they get wrong.
You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on
(20:35):
Beyond Contact talking to doctor Eric Davis. Doctor Davis, there
are several prominent people such as doctor Stephen Greer and
others who say that NHI is peaceful. It's only the
humans who are violent and warlike. You seem to have
said that it may not be the Space Brothers from
the fifties that we used to portray. What do you
think these days.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
Steve Greer, is not a ground truth of anything he
doesn't know. I know from experience working at National Institute
for Discovery Science for six years, working five years on
Skinwalker Ranch, and then working for AFRL. My program manager
at that the Air Force Research Lab that's the Advanced
Concepts Office at AFRL at Edwards Serforce Base. My program
(21:16):
manager was big and deep into this topic. And then
I worked for Help put Off for fifteen years and
we were always big and deep on this topic. And
then we were part of the os APP and the
follow on a tip that j Stratton set up was
unfunded and then it got replaced eventually by the UAP
task Force that the Office of Naval Intelligence had him
(21:39):
stand up before he finally retired from the Navy and
Arrow was born. So my experience through all that, and
I'm not just a stem scientist with the PhD. I'm
an astrophysicist to be specifically like Avlobe, I'm an experiencer
because I experienced phenomenon on the ranch and that has
been published in the first two books by Colin Kellerher
(22:01):
and George Napp, and the second one I had Jim
Leikowski as another co author. It's really the sum total
of my experiences but not just mine. A lot of
people that have published credible scientists. So you have to
look at Jacques Falese books Confrontations, Revelations and Dimensions, The
Passport to Magonia, The Invisible College. I'm forgetting a couple
(22:22):
of books here, but anyway, you get the point. So
I've read his case his case files. He published his
case files in his books. So I read all those,
and I read and I've even interviewed people who I've
investigated with Keller her and other folks out in the field.
The conclusion I reached is it's not all space brothers.
(22:42):
It really isn't. The UFO phenomenon in the large is
mostly malevolent. There had been reports, credible reports and analysis
done by credible academicians of cases that have been evolent
encounters where there was healing involved and there was just
contact communication and nothing bad happened to the witnesses, the
(23:07):
human witnesses. But for the most part, it's malevolent. They've
been known to shoot directed energy beams at innocent people.
There's kolarasylin in Brazil back in the late seventies. There
was a gentleman in North Carolina during the two thousand period.
There's all these multiple encounters with nuclear weapons systems and
(23:30):
nuclear weapons delivery platforms and complexes, even the national labs
where nuclear fuels and radioactive materials are developed and tested
and so forth and so on. There's a record of
UAP shutting down a dozen of our Northern Tier ICBM
(23:51):
silos and missiles and the warheads on the missiles. Simultaneously,
there were UAP over at Soviet Union turning on a
dozen of their of their ICBMs. So that's not benevolent,
that's malevolent, and there have been Keith Wolverton, Captain retired
Cascade County Sheriff's Department Captain Keith Wolverton did his investigations
(24:14):
on all of that in the Northern Tier SAX sites,
the ICBM silos up there in his county, which included
plenty of UFO close encounters, even cattle mutilation reports and
bigfoot sightings and things like that. There was never anything
benevolent about it. It was always malevolent. And the experience we
had at the ranch, we never had a benevolent experience
(24:36):
with the phenomenon and the ranch. It's always been control system,
a precognitive sentient phenomenon that's out there that knows what
we're doing before we do it, and it's not very
friendly and it's not open to communicating a two way
with us. I have a personal experience that had only
communicated one way with us, but everybody had the experience
where the phenomenon would demonstrate for us and it would
(25:01):
not take any inputs from us in return. So it's overall.
I have some very respected religious studies colleagues, retired and
active in academia who have a different view of it.
They got examples of benevolent encounters with the UAP. But
(25:21):
when I believe that, I accept their data. I mean,
these are credible researchers. They don't make mistakes, and I
accept that. But when I look at the numbers, especially
looking at Jacquli and Chris Aubeck's book Wonders in the Sky,
which looks at fifteen hundred years UAP history in Europe,
going back to about the time of Christ or just after,
(25:43):
you see a lot of malevolent encounters between craft nhis
and soldiers out in the field, in the middle, in
the heat of battle, or just run in the middle
of people living in a village.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Could this be the reason behind the secrecy could be.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
Could be I explicitly stated the reason behind the secrecy
in the first section of my lecture at Contact in
the Desert. I think it's just the US government and
foreign governments keep this as secret as they possibly can
because they can't do anything about it. They don't know
what to do about it, and they don't have the
(26:19):
technological expertise or the capability to do something about it.
If they're lucky, like the CIA and Air Force guys
at Hollman were, the NHI would come down and talk
to them, but it's not. I only have the data
from just one retired president who was a CIA director,
and that's the only data I have about that contact.
I'm not aware of other forms of contact that have
(26:40):
taken place where it was a friendly two way communication.
That's a benevolent contact. I haven't seen any written evidence
that that was threatening in any way. That conversation or whatnot,
or exchange of information. I think as I understood it,
that was an exchange of information. So yeah, I think
you're going to have a mix of malay and benevolent.
(27:01):
But so far, the analysis that we see is that
UAP is a lot like the gin. You know, they
behave like tricksters. They're pulling stunts on human witnesses, either
individuals or group of individuals. But by and large it's
a hardware craft. Advanced technology is really way out there,
and that's how they transport themselves to get here, and
(27:22):
they transport themselves out to go back to where they
came from, and you just don't have a lot of
contact with humans directly. There are demonstrations like, for example,
the miracles at Fatima in Portugal that was in the
early nineteen hundreds, and there was an incident where these
these shepherd children, siblings and cousins are out. They're very poor,
(27:46):
very devoutly Catholic, and they're out in the field and
they come across a burning bush like what Moses saw
on the top of Mount are At, and instead of
hearing White God's voice, these kids saw the Virgin Mary
hovering above the burning bush. This burning bush and Virgin
Mary were giving them prophecies, and they would relate that
(28:08):
prophecy to their local parish priest. This had gone on
so long that finally the whole nearby town had heard
enough of it that one day they knew from the
kids that this was going to make another appearance again.
So they all go out to the field where the
kids are there. It is they see the burning bush,
and all of the very religious, lesser educated people, the
(28:28):
like the Shepherd kids who didn't go to school, they
saw the Virgin Mary over the burning bush. However, the
educated people saw something completely different. They saw the sun
turn silvery and start doing figure eights across the sky,
if I'm not mistaken. So it was like a big
giant disc in the sky just doing figure eights, and
it was not yellow like the sun usually as it
(28:50):
was more silvery. And however, the sun seemed to disappeared
from the view. This thing was lighting up the sky
just like the sun normally did, but it was not moving.
You did see, the son engineer, what you thought was
the sun was that silvery doing figure eights until it disappeared.
There's the normal sun in the sky. The Virgin Mary,
to the other recipients, went away, and the burning bush
(29:12):
went away. So that's what they saw. They saw a
different scene than what the very religious.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
People saw, which is often the case people interpreted through
their lens. When we come back, we're going to ask
you about alien reproduction vehicles and to see if those
in fact could be our reversed engineered craft flying around.
You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on
(29:52):
Beyond Contact. We're talking to doctor Eric Davis. Doctor Davis.
Another area where you differ from a lot of people
out there is that many people say that these craft
we're seeing, like even the famous tic TAC videos are
effect our technology. What do you have to say about that?
Speaker 5 (30:06):
No, so it was our technology. Why are our military fighters,
our jet fighters still carrying jet engines with external aerodynamic
control systems we call those euphemistically wings, you know, the
tail rudders and ailerons and elevators and flaps. You know,
why are planes still flying with propellers or jet engines?
(30:28):
Why do we have rockets? So, if we have these
anti gravity and somehow that gives them the ability to
do linear motion or quasi linear rectulinear emotion as well
as hovering and levitating, our whole ground transportation and aviation
transportation and space transportation should have already been revolutionized. So no,
(30:50):
the ARVs aren't there. That's just a myth. Those are
just created from I don't know why. I don't know
if it's narcissism or some personality flaw thanks to add up.
I reject it as a real phenomenon. I think it's
just a myth that's been created by one person and
it was propagated by his buddy. That's Michaelson Cirrension. And
then you've got Bob Tzar telling his story when he
(31:12):
never worked at Area fifty one. He always worked at
Los Alamos and worked for kirk Meyer as an hourly
paid radiation health monitor, which is a guy that checks
in and checks out and repairs and replaces radiation badges.
And he did some electronics technician stuff too. Okay, from
the investigations done by the LAP Task Force, and what
(31:33):
Arrow had done is that those craft were not attributed
to anything made by the United States or anything man made.
There's always a discussion all the Chinese drunes. You know,
that's Sean Kirkpatrick's bullshit fantasy. No, the Navy was very
clear that those were unknowns. They were not Navy, they
were not Air Force, they were not any other service,
(31:55):
they were not foreign service. They were not as far
as they're concerned nothing they've ever seen, because because remember,
these things went into the ocean and they came out
of the ocean, and we don't have drone technology that
could do that. That's almost like the what was the
name of that on voyage to the bottom of the sea,
they had that little sub that came out of the
bottom of the of the head of the of the sub,
(32:18):
see was the name of the sub and it with
the flying sub is what they called it. And it
would just rapidly move their water and just head for
the surface and splash out and just fly like a
like a jet aircraft all around and the splash right
back in the water and work its way back up
into its little belly port underneath the seaview.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
And these objects don't even splash, they just go right
into that meeting right in.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
Yeah, that's exactly right. So that's what the Navy saw
these things do off the bows and sides of the warships,
and these were at night. They caught them on fli
our videos. That is definitely not man made. But Jim
Lekotski didn't give enough details, so we're basically left with
the gap of information to figure out what he was saying.
(33:03):
All we know is he admitted there's some incremental success there,
but we don't know how much of success. And he's
tying it to triangular craft. But it could be that
he meant that they were reverse engineering a capture triangular
craft and that is what they had incremental success in.
I could tell you from talking to a senior VP
(33:25):
of one of the major aerospace companies in the United
States who worked himself with a team of four or
five others on that company's crash retrieval program during the
Cold War. That was from his era there in nineteen
seventy to eighty nine, which is when the government customer
shut it down, and he said that they were not successful.
(33:46):
That's why the government customer who owned the portfolio for
the crash retrieval and reverse engineering programs shut it down.
They didn't shut it down just for his company. They
shut it down for all the companies they had contracts with.
And then he said they did resurrect it once every
ten years. They would resurrect it every ten years on
the premise that our lab technologies, our physics theories, and
(34:08):
applied physics and engineering principles were advanced far enough so
that they would bring it out after the first ten years,
give it a shot. They were not successful, so they
would shut it back into put it back into hibernation
for the next ten year period. Bring it back. It's
too stone Pike two. With the compartmentalization of the wa've
done acknowledged special access program. I happen to know that
(34:29):
you can have more than a handful of people in
certain types of these programs, maybe two handfuls of people
at most, and they're not allowed confiseration.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Problem overclassification, over compartmentalization.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
Yeah, and that's a problem because when you're in that
security regime, you cannot call the top experts in their
top grad students in postdocs at Harvard or University of
Arizona or UCLA or UC Berkeley or or University of
Illinois or wherever. So you can't call those guys. Hi,
I'm an interesting problem. If you're eligible to get a
(35:02):
clearance at this level and sign the s F three
twelve security clearance and DA, I can share that with
you because I need your help.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
So I think this is hindering us, doctor Davis, this
is hindering scientific corus.
Speaker 5 (35:14):
That is hindering it. Absolutely Stove piping is hindering it.
They were able to avoid that at the Manhattan Project
because remember the Manhattan Project, if your history knowledge is good,
was turned into a village Loslomo, the village of Los Alamos.
So you're gonna have a bunch of guys out in
the middle of the high high desert. You're on the
on the Maysize, next to the mountains. They're gonna be
(35:35):
working out there for god knows how many years. I mean,
they're trying to close out World War two as fast
as possible. We beat Germany, they surrendered in April, but
Japan refused to surrender and we were battling them all
the way until we had to drop two atomic bombs
to convince them to surrender in August of forty five.
So they didn't know it was going to take until
(35:55):
August to forty five. So they just knew. You're gonna
have a bunch of physicists, mathetitians, computer programmers, engineers, et cetera,
et cetera, all multidisciplinary experts collected together. You're going to
have to house them, surround them with security so that
nobody can get in and nobody can get out or
get the information out and then they were unsuccessful in
(36:16):
a couple of those points.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Actually make sure it's even worse with UAPs, right, Yeah,
So so this the UAP thing, I think has been
on a farm more micro.
Speaker 5 (36:26):
I think it's actually microscale compared to the Manhattan Project.
And that's a shame and that's a travesty, and that's
criminal because taxpayer dollars are going in to pay for
this and we're not getting any out of it. We're
not getting a thing in return. Even if more could,
even if it's incremental success, we could still use it.
(36:48):
I don't agree with revealing any reverse engineering discovery that
could help our foreign adversaries get an edge over our military,
you know, get a technological edge above us, ahead of us. Yeah,
we have to protect that, and that's because we are
patriotic people and we must protect that. But I think
the more the more general information that there's a there there,
(37:13):
there's these type of aliens that shouldn't be secret, the
type of the aliens. There are types if even if
we knew where they were from, which I don't believe
we do. Still maybe we do, but that's a real
swim chance that I that I haven't been able to,
you know, drill down onto unfortunately, because the US APP
had ended back in twenty eleven or so. The fact
(37:35):
that we communicate with an alien species from another from
another realm, either a parallel universe, or another planet in
a parallel universe, or another planet in our own universe,
that it should not be classified. And that's something that
Avi Lope has said recently surrounding the time of the
disclosure form in Washington, d C. Late last month, that should.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Not as all want that obviously, we think of human
right that we should all know thistxactly. We're out of time, buddy.
Speaker 5 (38:02):
Okay, Well we can get back and do it again
if you want.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
I would love to. You're so awesome. I appreciate you
sharing everything with us today. Thank you, welcome, Thank you again,
Doctor Davis. Really great talking to you. I really appreciate
all your insights. Hey everyone, check out Ancient Mysteries Conference
at Edgarcase dot org. I'm going to be the MC
of this event coming up this fall. It's going to
be very exciting. You can use beyond fifty to say
(38:25):
fifty dollars. Check it out. You can also find me
on Twitter and Instagram at CID Underscore Captain Ron. Stay
connected by checking out Contactinthethdesert dot com. Stay open minded
and rational as we explore the unknown right here on
the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
A and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
to iHeartRadio dot com
You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM
Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,
and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
With Captain Rong.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions
only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast
to Coast AM, employees of Premier Networks, or their sponsors
and associates. We would like to encourage you to do
(00:41):
your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week on Beyond
Contact looks for the latest news ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we talk.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
With the top experts. Welcome to Beyond Contact. I am
Captain Ron, and today we have the great honor of
speaking with doctor Eric Davis. Doctor Davis is an astrophysicist
whose career has focused on advanced propulsion concepts, space time,
and theoretical physics. He has publicly acknowledged working in the
government's OSAPP and ATIP programs, as well as many others.
(01:28):
He is one of the most respected figures at the
intersection of cutting edge physics, aerospace research, and the ongoing
search to better understand both the UAP phenomenon and NHI itself.
It's a great honor to have him here with us today.
Hi doctor Davis, good to see again.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
Hi Ron, Thank you very much. It's great to see
you too. And as we were talking about previously, I
really enjoyed contact in the desert. That was my first one,
and I consider it to be like the woodstock of euthology.
I was really thrilled to be there.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Oh that's great. We loved having you. It was a
lot of fun.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You know. I feel like you're on the short list
of people who have more knowledge on what our government
may know about NHI and UAPs and appreciating all of
your NDAs and clearances and all of that. What can
you share with the audience what we actually may have
as far as non human craft and biologics are concerned.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
So we have recovered craft worldwide, not just in the
United States, and they range from really destroyed to in
tac craft in TAC craft that were landed and nothing
happens structurally to them, and they're so they're fully there
with all their internal components and so forth, and so
that number is classified but as south of forty total
(02:41):
over the previous eighty years and nhis. I couldn't get
a real strong handle on that. That's one of the
more segregated components from the hardware. And I'm a hardware guy.
I'm not involved in zenobiology as you might call it.
That's not my forte And I couldn't develop very good
(03:02):
inside channels to find those people that were working with
or had been working with recovered NHI bodies. So I'm
only aware of the ones that I officially know that
were recovered the four at on the Foster Ranch in Corona,
New Mexico, which has been mislabeled as the Roswell crash
(03:23):
because it was the five to ninth bombardment group at
Roswell Army Airfield that recovered it at the Foster Ranch
in Corona, and Corona's one hundred and some miles from
Roswell that one. And then there was one single NHI
body that was recovered from the crash of a craft
in Siodaticunya, Mexico. Sorry, Mexico, which is across the Rio
(03:43):
Grande River from Del Rio, Texas, and that was recovered
by the Mexican Army, which later decided it didn't want
to do anything further with it because it was beyond
their capability to do anything with so they called in
the US Air Force to recover. So that one had
one single body. So there was four on the Corona crash,
one with the Mexico crash, and I am not aware
(04:06):
of any other ones. We actually had craft, at least
one that I know of, that was deliberately landed and
the ufouts literally walked away from it. So it's always
been hypothesized that that was meant to be a gift
to us, and what good did it do us? We
haven't figured much out from it. We don't see city
buses and aircraft without wings and jet engines, so our
(04:28):
technology has not been able to take advantage of anything
that was learned in the crash retrieval programs that reverse
engineering parts of that. I do know that they weren't
that successful up until eighty nine, and I don't know
in the modern context how much further they've gotten along.
Beyond the surprising comment that Jim MCASKI made to Jeremy
corbell and George Knapp in a video interview that was
(04:52):
done some many weeks ago, where he did allude to
some incremental capabilities had been reverse engine near and they
might have had something to do with triangular craft, and
that was vague to me. But Jim has to stay
within the guardrails of what the dops are allows him
to say publicly. What's even more shocking to me is
(05:13):
they allowed him to say anything at all of that nature,
especially in his book and in the same interview with
Corbella and Knapp where he was able to get inside
of a recovered craft. Anyway, I hadn't gone been able
to get very far with the Nhiyes, I have a
good Cold War era knowledge of where they went historically
(05:33):
before modern times, modern times meaning this century, but I
don't know how many other nhis have been recovered dead
or living, if any. And there were many close encounters
of landings where human witnesses, recipients or witnesses who were
there and saw went up to it, touched it. You've
got the two guys Peniston and Burroughs, who were Air
(05:55):
Force security police at bent Waters Lake and heat the
Air Force Base in England back in December of nineteen
eighty ethic that was and so those two guys were
there in the fort saw the craft, Penniston touched it.
So that's a case where we have two human witnesses
who actually see in touch of craft. We have other
few examples of that. The win in New Mexico that
(06:17):
involved one he is a more scarl and that one
left evidence behind that you could preserve, measure and make
estimates from. So it's a hard net, especially contact with
nhis That one I got through an interview I did
with President George Herbert Walker Bush back in the early
two thousands, no longer involved in Texas state politics or
(06:38):
national politics, and he did reveal to me in the
conversation that he was brief as the incoming CIA director
in the Ford administration about the existence of the hollom
And landing event of three UAP craft. One of those
three landed on the tarmac, and how a helicopter crew
(06:59):
was on its way to White Sands Missile Range to
film a new missile test well. Mid flight, they were
called by the traffic control tower at Hollomand to return
to Holloman and film what was happening there instead which
they got there, and then they filmed the approach of
three craft, one of which landed on the tarmac, the
(07:19):
other two went away and apparently a gang way came
down onto the ground and down walked what we would
say is a Nordic looking uphone, not or NHI Nordic
in the Synstad's tall stature white. However, in Bob Emmenager's book,
the companion book to his Emmy nominated documentary UFO's Fast
(07:42):
President in Future, he's got a schematic of that that
came from the Department of Defense. And the reason is
because that documentary film and its updated version in nineteen
seventy six, which included cattle mutilations and Jacques Lee as
a co host, that was still a Sandler Emmenager of production.
They were both sponsored by the Department of Defense and
(08:02):
the MacArthur Foundation. So they have a taxonomy at NHI
beings that have been witnessed, many of him investigated by
Project Bluebook, many of him investigated by intelligence agencies that
didn't want to identify themselves, and then they had a
taxonomy of UFO or UAP craft configurations. So one of
them is the one that was noted to come down
(08:24):
the gangplank the exit ramp, if you will. I don't
know what the technical name for those things are that
met with CIA and Air Force representatives on the tarmac.
When I look at it looks Egyptian to me based
on headgear and the facial structure a little small on
the jaw. The Senior President Bush described that very head
configuration that he had been told about during his intake
(08:49):
briefing or introductory briefing as the new CIA director. And
he described that scenery based on what he was told
by the liaison officer, the liaison officer from the Pentagon,
the go between the CIA and the Pentagon, So it
was a Nordic. Got the facial structure that you'll see
in m. Nigger's book. That looks Egyptian to me based
(09:09):
on the covering. It holds a staff in his hand.
Bush wasn't allowed to get information on that.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
We take a quick break here, we would come back.
We're going to ask you about some of the evidence
for NHI and these recovered craft. You're listening to Beyond
Contact and the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal
podcast network. We are back on beyond contact. We're speaking
(09:53):
with doctor Eric Davis. Doctor Davis, what do you think
the most publicly discussable evidence for their being an NHI
presence on Earth is.
Speaker 5 (10:03):
I do know that our intelligence agencies collected intelligence on
a foreign adversaries crash retrieval event. They had something during
the late Cold War, the very late Cold War, just
about the time it ended, actually, and there was a
crash retrieval on the other side of the Earth, and
they had recovered a craft whose configuration is comparable to
(10:24):
the tic TAC that the Ussnimits encountered in the first
week of November two thousand and four, except it was
twice as big. This craft was brought down after extrenuous effort,
I should say a great deal of effort. This country
deployed its jet fighters, helicopters, ground air missiles, and after
a period of time only one errant not unplanned ground
(10:49):
air missile actually didn't quite hit it, but exploded near
one came close to the target enough to bring it down,
and it crashed in a boulder field and split open,
so it didn't become wreckage debris everywhere like a typical
airliner crash with chunks. It became one big chunk that
was split, cracked open, and they recovered four Nhi bodies
(11:11):
which were consistent in size, dimensions, configurations, and approximate weight
and morphology as the guys that were recovered in Corona
on the Foster Ranch and the one that was recovered
in Ciudautacunya, Mexico. So again those are the grays, I
can tell you that. And there were rulers meter sticks
at that country lying next to the bodies and the
(11:34):
body bags. I did not see photographs of the bodies
before the bag, but the air was removed so you
could clearly see the outline of the body. It had
four limbs that I could see. The limbs were diminutive,
the body was diminutive, but the head was large, and
it was your typical Nhi had and it was a
(11:55):
very interesting comparison. There was sunlight getting inside the opening
of the craft and you could see configuration of stuff inside,
technical things that were not familiar. They didn't look like
a human cockpit or chairs, no shoulder straps, none of that.
It was very unusual. And then because of the angle
(12:16):
of the sun in the sky with respect to the
opening side of the opening was in a shadow, so
I couldn't see what was in the shadow. There were trucks,
military trucks, military medics, and there were photos reports. Everything
was in the language of that country. However, our intelligence
agencies recovered that information through human intelligence gathering and were
(12:37):
able to translate all of the figure captions on photographs
and written documents into English, and so you could understand
what was happening there. So that was an interesting thing there.
I do not know whether there have been other nh
eyes recovered elsewhere around the world. I can tell you
(12:57):
that fully two thirds of all all crash retrievals around
the globe are in the maritime environment. They're not on
the land. Only one third of them are on the land,
so most of them have been recovered in the maritime environment.
That's one of the most covert operations in the United
States government is the Navy Undersea Operation. I had attempted
(13:18):
back in two thousand to contact a Navy captain who
worked on crash retrievals with TRW, and he was already
retired by then working at I won't say who it is,
but it's a federally funded research and development corporation on
the East coast, and he had the undersea surveillance undersea
warfare portfolio because that institute that ffarty C serviced one
(13:42):
of the military well service to the US military, I'll
say the Pentagon in general. And I engaged him on
a conversation on that about under UFO slash USO object,
you know, undersea objects that had been detected and whatnot,
and he wouldn't go there with me because he said
the facts and nature and capabilities of our undersea surveillance
(14:06):
system and undersee recovery technologies as off limits to me.
So unfortunately he could allude to yes, when they were
able to see every sort of sea life in the
ocean with the sensing system that's been installed around the globe,
and they could tell the difference between school sufficient pods
(14:26):
of cestaceans and crabs and shrimps and everything else that
lives in the ocean at all depths. And he did
confirm that there were anomalous events that were large in
size dimensions and they could discern its physical shapes and
estimate its dimensions, but he would not say the word
(14:48):
UFO or anomalous under sea craft that would not be
of human origin because even if the you know, the
Soviets in the United States Navy were the most advanced
superpowers on Earth, they wouldn't be able to produce the
type of things they were seeing. He did say they
had anomalous large objects they did move in anomalous fashions
(15:09):
that were uncharacteristic with natural sea life, with geological events
that occurred down in the seafloor, even with the ocean
currents and man made so they couldn't identify it against those.
They just basically eliminate the other alternative explanations and came
(15:29):
down to it was an anomaly, and we know it's
not a natural anomaly. I asked him about calibration of
their instrumentation and their sensitivity. He said that too, is
also super super secret, but he can assure me that
they were highly calibrated, and when they had problems with
an instrument that wasn't that lost its calibration and which
is or malfunctioning overall, they could actually go down to
(15:51):
the bottom of the ocean, recover it, bring it back up,
repair it if it's repaarable, or replace it if it's not,
and return it and reposition it in the previous So
it's very granular detection system and very high resolution is
when I understand it. So they could tell the difference
between natural phenomenon down there and man made and sea
(16:13):
life phenomena. And he did say, like I said, that
they did see some very anomalous things that they could
not identify at all, and they knew their instruments were
fine resolution, fine, I know this is sonar systems. Calibration
was fine. So instrumentation was not the issue here. They
did legitimately detect something. So yeah, so I'm sorry I
(16:35):
can't answer those questions. That was two things I always
wanted to track down, and I could never get that far.
Even during the asapp when I had my security clearances
and I had my deputization letter from Jim Lekatski which
deputized me as an official representative of the Defense Intelligence Agency,
I could not get into those doors to find a
(16:56):
to find the gatekeeper to the NHIS, a gatekeeper who
who has the information on US government agency or whole
of government contact with NHI. Maybe it isn't so much
as an agency as an appointed coordinator type person who's
deputized to represent elements of the government on behalf of
the United States to the NHIS. I couldn't get through.
(17:20):
I couldn't get there. I just didn't didn't know who
to track down. And as a matter of fact, I
know what the reason being is, my security clearances weren't
high enough to find that information. I was awarded top
secret SCI clearances and several compartments of SCI subcompartments. I
should say, well they are compartments. Sorry, so several of
(17:40):
the SCI compartments. But unfortunately the level of UAP and
NHI recoveries or interactions or contact is at the WAVED
and Acknowledge Special Access Program level, and the asset did
not get that kind of security cover, which meant that
Biggler Aerospace Advanced Space Studies would, and by consequent of that,
it would mean that Ertech International Incorporated, which how Putoff
(18:04):
was owned and was the CEO president of, and I
was his chief scientist and senior research physicist at during
that era, so we would have gotten those same clearances
as well. Jim MCCASKI had not been able to go
further for whatever reason I'm not aware of. And then
Senator Harry Reid wrote a letter to Deputy Secretary Defense
(18:25):
William Lynn and William Lynn denied Reid's request to give
the Wavednegolge special Access program. Now he didn't use the
word wavedune acknowledged, read used the word special access program.
The appellation of wavedne acknowledge versus regular SAP is not
a distinction at that point. It's just we want to
(18:45):
talk about the SAP. Then when we if he was successful,
and we can go down that road with the security
infrastructure to get that set up through the NISPOMP. That's NISPOM,
the National Industrial Security Program Program Operation Manual nis POOND
rules for contractors. We'd go down that path, get that
set up, and then we would say, well, we know
(19:08):
that the UAP crash retrieval programs and possibly the recovery
of the NHI bodies and somebody who is in contact
with NHIS that's going to be at the WUSAP level
waved and acknowledged Special Access program WU SAP. WU SAP
is how we call it. Sounds Chinese anyway, So we
(19:29):
would have we that would have been the next step.
We would have worked towards the SAP, and then we
would have said to Jim mcatski, Okay, Jim, you're going
to need to get your program security officer to give
us a wu SAP and then we could go from there.
I know now that I would have had to have
WUSAP clearance to take those extra steps to find the
gatekeepers to the NHI bodies and whoever's communicated with the
(19:54):
nhis like circa the nineteen sixty four Holm and Landing film,
and it would have been interesting to find out if
we had maintained contact or if that was a one off.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Is that only it's like a quick break. We're going
to come back. We're going to ask you what you
think the UFO community gets correct and what they get wrong.
You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on
(20:35):
Beyond Contact talking to doctor Eric Davis. Doctor Davis, there
are several prominent people such as doctor Stephen Greer and
others who say that NHI is peaceful. It's only the
humans who are violent and warlike. You seem to have
said that it may not be the Space Brothers from
the fifties that we used to portray. What do you
think these days.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
Steve Greer, is not a ground truth of anything he
doesn't know. I know from experience working at National Institute
for Discovery Science for six years, working five years on
Skinwalker Ranch, and then working for AFRL. My program manager
at that the Air Force Research Lab that's the Advanced
Concepts Office at AFRL at Edwards Serforce Base. My program
(21:16):
manager was big and deep into this topic. And then
I worked for Help put Off for fifteen years and
we were always big and deep on this topic. And
then we were part of the os APP and the
follow on a tip that j Stratton set up was
unfunded and then it got replaced eventually by the UAP
task Force that the Office of Naval Intelligence had him
(21:39):
stand up before he finally retired from the Navy and
Arrow was born. So my experience through all that, and
I'm not just a stem scientist with the PhD. I'm
an astrophysicist to be specifically like Avlobe, I'm an experiencer
because I experienced phenomenon on the ranch and that has
been published in the first two books by Colin Kellerher
(22:01):
and George Napp, and the second one I had Jim
Leikowski as another co author. It's really the sum total
of my experiences but not just mine. A lot of
people that have published credible scientists. So you have to
look at Jacques Falese books Confrontations, Revelations and Dimensions, The
Passport to Magonia, The Invisible College. I'm forgetting a couple
(22:22):
of books here, but anyway, you get the point. So
I've read his case his case files. He published his
case files in his books. So I read all those,
and I read and I've even interviewed people who I've
investigated with Keller her and other folks out in the field.
The conclusion I reached is it's not all space brothers.
(22:42):
It really isn't. The UFO phenomenon in the large is
mostly malevolent. There had been reports, credible reports and analysis
done by credible academicians of cases that have been evolent
encounters where there was healing involved and there was just
contact communication and nothing bad happened to the witnesses, the
(23:07):
human witnesses. But for the most part, it's malevolent. They've
been known to shoot directed energy beams at innocent people.
There's kolarasylin in Brazil back in the late seventies. There
was a gentleman in North Carolina during the two thousand period.
There's all these multiple encounters with nuclear weapons systems and
(23:30):
nuclear weapons delivery platforms and complexes, even the national labs
where nuclear fuels and radioactive materials are developed and tested
and so forth and so on. There's a record of
UAP shutting down a dozen of our Northern Tier ICBM
(23:51):
silos and missiles and the warheads on the missiles. Simultaneously,
there were UAP over at Soviet Union turning on a
dozen of their of their ICBMs. So that's not benevolent,
that's malevolent, and there have been Keith Wolverton, Captain retired
Cascade County Sheriff's Department Captain Keith Wolverton did his investigations
(24:14):
on all of that in the Northern Tier SAX sites,
the ICBM silos up there in his county, which included
plenty of UFO close encounters, even cattle mutilation reports and
bigfoot sightings and things like that. There was never anything
benevolent about it. It was always malevolent. And the experience we
had at the ranch, we never had a benevolent experience
(24:36):
with the phenomenon and the ranch. It's always been control system,
a precognitive sentient phenomenon that's out there that knows what
we're doing before we do it, and it's not very
friendly and it's not open to communicating a two way
with us. I have a personal experience that had only
communicated one way with us, but everybody had the experience
where the phenomenon would demonstrate for us and it would
(25:01):
not take any inputs from us in return. So it's overall.
I have some very respected religious studies colleagues, retired and
active in academia who have a different view of it.
They got examples of benevolent encounters with the UAP. But
(25:21):
when I believe that, I accept their data. I mean,
these are credible researchers. They don't make mistakes, and I
accept that. But when I look at the numbers, especially
looking at Jacquli and Chris Aubeck's book Wonders in the Sky,
which looks at fifteen hundred years UAP history in Europe,
going back to about the time of Christ or just after,
(25:43):
you see a lot of malevolent encounters between craft nhis
and soldiers out in the field, in the middle, in
the heat of battle, or just run in the middle
of people living in a village.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Could this be the reason behind the secrecy could be.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
Could be I explicitly stated the reason behind the secrecy
in the first section of my lecture at Contact in
the Desert. I think it's just the US government and
foreign governments keep this as secret as they possibly can
because they can't do anything about it. They don't know
what to do about it, and they don't have the
(26:19):
technological expertise or the capability to do something about it.
If they're lucky, like the CIA and Air Force guys
at Hollman were, the NHI would come down and talk
to them, but it's not. I only have the data
from just one retired president who was a CIA director,
and that's the only data I have about that contact.
I'm not aware of other forms of contact that have
(26:40):
taken place where it was a friendly two way communication.
That's a benevolent contact. I haven't seen any written evidence
that that was threatening in any way. That conversation or whatnot,
or exchange of information. I think as I understood it,
that was an exchange of information. So yeah, I think
you're going to have a mix of malay and benevolent.
(27:01):
But so far, the analysis that we see is that
UAP is a lot like the gin. You know, they
behave like tricksters. They're pulling stunts on human witnesses, either
individuals or group of individuals. But by and large it's
a hardware craft. Advanced technology is really way out there,
and that's how they transport themselves to get here, and
(27:22):
they transport themselves out to go back to where they
came from, and you just don't have a lot of
contact with humans directly. There are demonstrations like, for example,
the miracles at Fatima in Portugal that was in the
early nineteen hundreds, and there was an incident where these
these shepherd children, siblings and cousins are out. They're very poor,
(27:46):
very devoutly Catholic, and they're out in the field and
they come across a burning bush like what Moses saw
on the top of Mount are At, and instead of
hearing White God's voice, these kids saw the Virgin Mary
hovering above the burning bush. This burning bush and Virgin
Mary were giving them prophecies, and they would relate that
(28:08):
prophecy to their local parish priest. This had gone on
so long that finally the whole nearby town had heard
enough of it that one day they knew from the
kids that this was going to make another appearance again.
So they all go out to the field where the
kids are there. It is they see the burning bush,
and all of the very religious, lesser educated people, the
(28:28):
like the Shepherd kids who didn't go to school, they
saw the Virgin Mary over the burning bush. However, the
educated people saw something completely different. They saw the sun
turn silvery and start doing figure eights across the sky,
if I'm not mistaken. So it was like a big
giant disc in the sky just doing figure eights, and
it was not yellow like the sun usually as it
(28:50):
was more silvery. And however, the sun seemed to disappeared
from the view. This thing was lighting up the sky
just like the sun normally did, but it was not moving.
You did see, the son engineer, what you thought was
the sun was that silvery doing figure eights until it disappeared.
There's the normal sun in the sky. The Virgin Mary,
to the other recipients, went away, and the burning bush
(29:12):
went away. So that's what they saw. They saw a
different scene than what the very religious.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
People saw, which is often the case people interpreted through
their lens. When we come back, we're going to ask
you about alien reproduction vehicles and to see if those
in fact could be our reversed engineered craft flying around.
You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on
(29:52):
Beyond Contact. We're talking to doctor Eric Davis. Doctor Davis.
Another area where you differ from a lot of people
out there is that many people say that these craft
we're seeing, like even the famous tic TAC videos are
effect our technology. What do you have to say about that?
Speaker 5 (30:06):
No, so it was our technology. Why are our military fighters,
our jet fighters still carrying jet engines with external aerodynamic
control systems we call those euphemistically wings, you know, the
tail rudders and ailerons and elevators and flaps. You know,
why are planes still flying with propellers or jet engines?
(30:28):
Why do we have rockets? So, if we have these
anti gravity and somehow that gives them the ability to
do linear motion or quasi linear rectulinear emotion as well
as hovering and levitating, our whole ground transportation and aviation
transportation and space transportation should have already been revolutionized. So no,
(30:50):
the ARVs aren't there. That's just a myth. Those are
just created from I don't know why. I don't know
if it's narcissism or some personality flaw thanks to add up.
I reject it as a real phenomenon. I think it's
just a myth that's been created by one person and
it was propagated by his buddy. That's Michaelson Cirrension. And
then you've got Bob Tzar telling his story when he
(31:12):
never worked at Area fifty one. He always worked at
Los Alamos and worked for kirk Meyer as an hourly
paid radiation health monitor, which is a guy that checks
in and checks out and repairs and replaces radiation badges.
And he did some electronics technician stuff too. Okay, from
the investigations done by the LAP Task Force, and what
(31:33):
Arrow had done is that those craft were not attributed
to anything made by the United States or anything man made.
There's always a discussion all the Chinese drunes. You know,
that's Sean Kirkpatrick's bullshit fantasy. No, the Navy was very
clear that those were unknowns. They were not Navy, they
were not Air Force, they were not any other service,
(31:55):
they were not foreign service. They were not as far
as they're concerned nothing they've ever seen, because because remember,
these things went into the ocean and they came out
of the ocean, and we don't have drone technology that
could do that. That's almost like the what was the
name of that on voyage to the bottom of the sea,
they had that little sub that came out of the
bottom of the of the head of the of the sub,
(32:18):
see was the name of the sub and it with
the flying sub is what they called it. And it
would just rapidly move their water and just head for
the surface and splash out and just fly like a
like a jet aircraft all around and the splash right
back in the water and work its way back up
into its little belly port underneath the seaview.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
And these objects don't even splash, they just go right
into that meeting right in.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
Yeah, that's exactly right. So that's what the Navy saw
these things do off the bows and sides of the warships,
and these were at night. They caught them on fli
our videos. That is definitely not man made. But Jim
Lekotski didn't give enough details, so we're basically left with
the gap of information to figure out what he was saying.
(33:03):
All we know is he admitted there's some incremental success there,
but we don't know how much of success. And he's
tying it to triangular craft. But it could be that
he meant that they were reverse engineering a capture triangular
craft and that is what they had incremental success in.
I could tell you from talking to a senior VP
(33:25):
of one of the major aerospace companies in the United
States who worked himself with a team of four or
five others on that company's crash retrieval program during the
Cold War. That was from his era there in nineteen
seventy to eighty nine, which is when the government customer
shut it down, and he said that they were not successful.
(33:46):
That's why the government customer who owned the portfolio for
the crash retrieval and reverse engineering programs shut it down.
They didn't shut it down just for his company. They
shut it down for all the companies they had contracts with.
And then he said they did resurrect it once every
ten years. They would resurrect it every ten years on
the premise that our lab technologies, our physics theories, and
(34:08):
applied physics and engineering principles were advanced far enough so
that they would bring it out after the first ten years,
give it a shot. They were not successful, so they
would shut it back into put it back into hibernation
for the next ten year period. Bring it back. It's
too stone Pike two. With the compartmentalization of the wa've
done acknowledged special access program. I happen to know that
(34:29):
you can have more than a handful of people in
certain types of these programs, maybe two handfuls of people
at most, and they're not allowed confiseration.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Problem overclassification, over compartmentalization.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
Yeah, and that's a problem because when you're in that
security regime, you cannot call the top experts in their
top grad students in postdocs at Harvard or University of
Arizona or UCLA or UC Berkeley or or University of
Illinois or wherever. So you can't call those guys. Hi,
I'm an interesting problem. If you're eligible to get a
(35:02):
clearance at this level and sign the s F three
twelve security clearance and DA, I can share that with
you because I need your help.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
So I think this is hindering us, doctor Davis, this
is hindering scientific corus.
Speaker 5 (35:14):
That is hindering it. Absolutely Stove piping is hindering it.
They were able to avoid that at the Manhattan Project
because remember the Manhattan Project, if your history knowledge is good,
was turned into a village Loslomo, the village of Los Alamos.
So you're gonna have a bunch of guys out in
the middle of the high high desert. You're on the
on the Maysize, next to the mountains. They're gonna be
(35:35):
working out there for god knows how many years. I mean,
they're trying to close out World War two as fast
as possible. We beat Germany, they surrendered in April, but
Japan refused to surrender and we were battling them all
the way until we had to drop two atomic bombs
to convince them to surrender in August of forty five.
So they didn't know it was going to take until
(35:55):
August to forty five. So they just knew. You're gonna
have a bunch of physicists, mathetitians, computer programmers, engineers, et cetera,
et cetera, all multidisciplinary experts collected together. You're going to
have to house them, surround them with security so that
nobody can get in and nobody can get out or
get the information out and then they were unsuccessful in
(36:16):
a couple of those points.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Actually make sure it's even worse with UAPs, right, Yeah,
So so this the UAP thing, I think has been
on a farm more micro.
Speaker 5 (36:26):
I think it's actually microscale compared to the Manhattan Project.
And that's a shame and that's a travesty, and that's
criminal because taxpayer dollars are going in to pay for
this and we're not getting any out of it. We're
not getting a thing in return. Even if more could,
even if it's incremental success, we could still use it.
(36:48):
I don't agree with revealing any reverse engineering discovery that
could help our foreign adversaries get an edge over our military,
you know, get a technological edge above us, ahead of us. Yeah,
we have to protect that, and that's because we are
patriotic people and we must protect that. But I think
the more the more general information that there's a there there,
(37:13):
there's these type of aliens that shouldn't be secret, the
type of the aliens. There are types if even if
we knew where they were from, which I don't believe
we do. Still maybe we do, but that's a real
swim chance that I that I haven't been able to,
you know, drill down onto unfortunately, because the US APP
had ended back in twenty eleven or so. The fact
(37:35):
that we communicate with an alien species from another from
another realm, either a parallel universe, or another planet in
a parallel universe, or another planet in our own universe,
that it should not be classified. And that's something that
Avi Lope has said recently surrounding the time of the
disclosure form in Washington, d C. Late last month, that should.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Not as all want that obviously, we think of human
right that we should all know thistxactly. We're out of time, buddy.
Speaker 5 (38:02):
Okay, Well we can get back and do it again
if you want.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
I would love to. You're so awesome. I appreciate you
sharing everything with us today. Thank you, welcome, Thank you again,
Doctor Davis. Really great talking to you. I really appreciate
all your insights. Hey everyone, check out Ancient Mysteries Conference
at Edgarcase dot org. I'm going to be the MC
of this event coming up this fall. It's going to
be very exciting. You can use beyond fifty to say
(38:25):
fifty dollars. Check it out. You can also find me
on Twitter and Instagram at CID Underscore Captain Ron. Stay
connected by checking out Contactinthethdesert dot com. Stay open minded
and rational as we explore the unknown right here on
the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
A and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
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