January 19, 2026 • 15 mins
Guest host Ryan Wrecker and writer Toby Chappell discuss communication as a catalyst for desired change.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Your book is The Languages of Magic. So how is
magic a language?
Speaker 3 (00:09):
First?
Speaker 4 (00:10):
I think I should maybe to find what I mean
by magic in this context, because, as I found, it's
a word that means a lot of different things to
different people. And when talking about magic, if people aren't
on the same page, so to speak about what they
mean by it, you can have this communication, which is
part of the point of my book. So what I
mean by magic in this context is when I'm talking
(00:31):
about using symbolic means, whether that's symbolic language, particular science,
or symbols are meaningful to the person doing magic and
so forth that they use to first create a change
within themselves, but then impress that change on the world
outside themselves. And what magic is a process of communication
(00:52):
under that definition means is that when I am directing
my magic toward something that I want to bring into beings.
So I want to change about myself something, what's change
about the world around myself something and some opportunity I
want to bring to myself or to make myself aware of.
I I treat that not as a one way communication.
This is not like you would do like speak a
(01:12):
seek the spell, like and Harry Potter and go and
say the magic word and then the magic happens. No,
this is a back and forth. This is a communication
process similar to how you would if you're trying to
persuade or to reach an agreement with someone, unless you
have certain authority or whatnot, you wouldn't just dictate them
what you want. You would you would negotiate with them.
You would talk to them about what it is that
(01:33):
they need, what it is that you need. What did
find out what it is that they respond to? And
applying this to magic means that you can take that
that that same the same principles of communication to reach
an agreement and also to reach a makesically to find
what the phenomenon that you wish to bring about will
(01:57):
respond to.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
M So this is different than manifesting. You hear people say, okay,
you start with the vision board and you think about
certain things and that way you manifest it. So this
is completely different. It sounds almost like you're trying to,
I don't want to say manipulate, but you're trying to
take the situation and angle it in a way where
(02:20):
you'll be able to get what you want out of it.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
The way that I view it, magic is not so
much about creating results. It's about creating opportunities and what
those opportunities are. The act of magic makes you aware
of them so that you can be so you can
see them when they occur, and so that you can
direct your actions toward bringing them about. So while in
a broad sense, maybe it is a bit related to
(02:46):
the manifestation idea in a sense, but it's a bit
more nuanced I think from that.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Okay, so that's an interesting way to handle life. Do
you use it in everyday life? So, for example, you're
ordering a coffee at a Starbucks? Would you use it there?
Or is this like you're in a business deal and
you're trying to get the best deal out of the
other company. When would you use something like this?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Right, Well, many things don't require magic at all. If
if it's simple to just walk across the room and
flip the light switch onto her the light on, then
that's the way you should do it. Same thing with
ordering your coffee. Now, when we were and this is
part of the communication background that I bring into the
book in a great deal of detail, let's take the
(03:30):
ordering a coffee example, because that's actually a really good one.
So let's talk about what's happening from just from a
pure communication point of view. So what you're doing is
you are engaged with what the philosopher Ludvig Vitckensheine will
call a language game. Now he's not using this in
a frivolous sense, but he's meaning that the language has
certain rules, there are certain plays that you make towards
(03:51):
certain ends, and part of effective communication in any particular
circumstances understanding what the rules are within that circumstance. So
with your ordering the coffee sample, you know you're expected
to have an idea of what it is you want
to order when you're when you're talking to the person
of the counter, you're expected to say certain pleasantries. You're
expected to you're not expected to long in want into
(04:14):
a long discussion about but anything unless you happen maybe
know the barista or something like that. And so the
rules of the game are that you basically you step up,
you have in mind what you want to order, and
then you you say the things that are necessary in
order to convey that order. So if we let's take
that in terms of look at magic at how that
applies to something where you would be used magic. So
(04:36):
you mentioned the business deal idea, and you also mentioned
earlier about wondering whether this is manipulation or something else.
So the way that I view magic, where it's most
ethically performed in any event, is that it's not an
act of compelling someone to do something. It's but it
is more akin to impelling someone to do something. Now
what the difference is there, And that's kind of subtle,
(04:58):
and maybe not everyone is used to using it, especially
impelling a normal conversation. It's the same if I give
use a rather blunt example, it's the same thing of
threatening someone to do something by you know, threatening to
hit them with a baseball bat or something, versus persuading
them to do it, versus making them want to do it,
or making with them want to cooperate with you.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And if you're in a.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Situation where where blunt force works, just fine, you don't
need something like magic. You just use blunt force, and
you shouldn't do that unless that's the only option. But
with your business deal example, I would first and work
as best I can to establish good, normal, communicating mundane
(05:45):
communication with the people that I'm interacting with, the people
I'm negotiating with. But as part of that, I'm going
to pay attention to the language that I use. I'm
going to pay attention to what sorts of signals and
what sorts of signs they give me to say the
things that are important to them, and I'm going to
very consciously try to adapt the way that I talk
(06:07):
to them into ways that they would be.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Most amenable to working with me on.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
So what I've done is I'm still have to negotiate
in the same way I would do any other part
of the business deal, but I've added something additional to
it that goes beyond just a meta communication, if you will,
something that's beyond just simple over communication. That is that
is adding to their willingness to work with.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Me on this deal.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
And so that's a very important thing about magic in
this sense, is that magic is rarely the only thing
that you rely on, is something you used to add
on to the other things you're already doing.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
That's interesting. Are some people more in tune with it?
And I'll give you an example, because I don't know
if it's a men versus women type of thing. So
when I'm out with my wife, she's very social, she's
very good at communicating with people. She knows the right
things to say, and you know she's she's very polite
in the way she'll do it. But if we're in
(07:02):
a social situation, for example, and we're talking to a
couple and I noticed the person's missing a finger, the
first thing I say is, how did you lose a finger?
And she'll look at me and say, you can't be
that direct with people. I think there's certain things where
people are in tune way to navigate social situations. I
don't think I'm one of those people. I think I'm
more direct. What do I have to learn here? What
(07:24):
could I be doing better when it comes to communication
in the background in order to try to get through
some of these situations that you're discussing.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Well, that's back to the meta communication idea that when
we're communicating with someone in any circumstance, there's always much
more that's going on beyond just the words. There is
the particular contact in which is happening. There is the
relative station of the people involved. Like you know, you
have a different conversation with a coworker or friend than
(07:54):
you would with the CEO of your company. And it
is true in my experience that women tend to have
a much greater sense of the meta communication that's in
play in most social interactions, and that that is a
ded a part of magic. It's part of what you
add on to the mundane, visible part of a situation
that make the wheels turn more smoothly, make make the
(08:17):
outcomes that you look conform more likely to achieve it,
and so forth. Now that being said, just as anyone
can learn to become a better communicator in a mundane
sense that it's a skill that can be improved. It's
a skill that you can you can learn how to
work with the things that that are sort of said
without being said that that you can. Some of this
(08:41):
you learn by example, but some of us also. If
you read about theories of communication, and there are quite
a number of ways that people approach communication as a
as a field of study, but there are there are
different ways to there's always different ways to achieve the
goal that you're looking for. But like any skill, you
(09:03):
will need to practice it and you will need to
start with good information.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Let's go back to some of your other interests. So
speaking of language, you have an interest in ruins. Out
of all of this play together, can you learn things
from let's say, ancient alphabets.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Oh, for sure.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Well, one of the things that we miss about the
alphabet is many people don't know the sort of the
history of the alphabet that we use, which is usually
called the Latin alphabet, because that's sort of where we
got it from the speakers of Latin as they spread
throughout Europe with the spread of Christianity. Well, the Latin
(09:43):
alphabet in turn was derived from the Greek alphabet, which
I think most people kind of have a sense of,
And if you go further back beyond that, the Greeks,
through a few levels of indirection, adapted from the Phoenicians.
So we're talking about this would have been at the
conclusion of what's called the Greek Dark Ages, So this
is around five or six hundred BC. I believe, maybe
(10:04):
a little further back. We don't exactly know when. We
have a bob of ark idea of when, just because
we can tell when they started using it for writing.
And so where I'm going with this and where this
kind of connects to your question is we're used to
just thinking of the letters that's A, B, C, D
and so forth, and that they have those special significance.
It's just that that letter maps to that sound, and
(10:25):
that's all we think of with it, because that's the
way that we use the alphabet. The Phoenicians, however, had
names for the letters, and the names were meaningful names,
and the letters basically started the the letter represented the
sound of the first sound in that name. So for example,
(10:47):
the first letter was off or there's a couple of
different plays to render it, but that's one of the
that means something like a house. That's the same. It's
actually the same as the Hebrew alphabet. I'll F is
the first letter. Now, when you have what's called an
acrophonic system, which is that using the sound of the
(11:08):
first sound of the word for the letter, now you
can give meaning to the letters. Instead of it just
being represented that sound, it can also represent that concept.
Not just sticking with the house example, not just sticking
with the you know, four walls and a roof and
all that, but like, what does the house mean to you?
(11:30):
What is the significance of it? Maybe you have some
image of home that comes to you. That's very that's
very poignant. Or that's very very emotional or brings back
memories and so forth. So when you have a system
about that and runs work the same way, and I'll
get to that in a second. Now you have additional
layers of meaning, you have additional meta communication.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
You can use this part of the normal communication that
you do with the alphabet.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Where can I take you? I mean, could you ever
research languages, research letters, the names behind letters, And that's
taking you to some weird places, because there's a lot
of mysteries in the world today that people have forgotten
about because little things like this have been lost over time.
So maybe there are subtexts that we don't understand anymore
(12:17):
in language, or you know, we read some ancient text
and we don't understand the context to it because it's
been lost over time. Do you find that learning things
like this help you unravel some mysteries in the world?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Oh? Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
I mean that's the basis of things like a gamatria,
where where you basically interpret the number and the meaning
behind the individual letters in words of Greek or Hebrew
and so forth, to find a deeper meaning than just
what's in the word itself. So I can talk a
little bit about runes, because I'm more family with that
(12:54):
system that I am with the Hebrew of the Phoenician systems.
So runs also have they're also acrophonic in the same way.
So the first roun typically is a room called feyhu,
which is a very old word is related to our
modern word fee, but it means cattle in the very
mundane sense. But it also represents money because that was
(13:14):
movable wealth for the ancient dramatic people that rote with runes.
And but this is more.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Than just wealth. You think about think about the things
that wealth brings to you.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
So you can you have a certain level of power
within the world, you have a certain level of security,
you have a certain level you can you can use
that to parlay it into other things and so forth.
But think about what it means to have if we
run the power metaphor aspect, but think about what it
means to have and developed personal power. Well, that's something
that you can also cultivate it. You can grow it,
(13:47):
you can circulate it, you can share it, you can
use it, you can hoard it, all those.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Same things that you can do with money.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
So this opens up like a new dimension that you
can think of it if you think of with any
of the room UNEs, if you think of a mundane
the mundane surface level of what the rune name means,
but also the symbolic meaning within it. That opens up
blossom new avenues for not only understanding runs individually in
(14:16):
and of themselves, but also you can pull apart words,
for example, written in ruins and use certain ways of
writing words in order to invest them with the meaning
of the letters behind them, of the individual rune staves
as we call them behind them. So it's a way
of encoding additional meaning into it, also a way of
(14:38):
deriving meaning out of something that you find written in ruins?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Have we found that meanings have changed in our interpretations
of them are completely different than their intentions? So have
you studied some ruins or have you study certain words?
And the way that we think about them today are
completely different than the way they were thought of a
Why ago? Is there anything that comes to mind?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (15:03):
My go to example for that is I don't maybe
on a laptop with a touchpad. But most people stold
today remember having the little thing attached to it or
not attached anymore, called a mouse. Well, the thing wasn't
always called a mouse. Right at some point someone had said, hey,
that kind of looks like a mouse. And what started
as kind of a joke or a little you know,
(15:23):
a pun six, and now that thing is called a mouse.
And now you end up with where if it's connected
with Bluetooth, where there's there's no actual cable, it no
longer resembles a mouse that much. But that's just the
name we use for that thing.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam
dot com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Your book is The Languages of Magic. So how is
magic a language?
Speaker 3 (00:09):
First?
Speaker 4 (00:10):
I think I should maybe to find what I mean
by magic in this context, because, as I found, it's
a word that means a lot of different things to
different people. And when talking about magic, if people aren't
on the same page, so to speak about what they
mean by it, you can have this communication, which is
part of the point of my book. So what I
mean by magic in this context is when I'm talking
(00:31):
about using symbolic means, whether that's symbolic language, particular science,
or symbols are meaningful to the person doing magic and
so forth that they use to first create a change
within themselves, but then impress that change on the world
outside themselves. And what magic is a process of communication
(00:52):
under that definition means is that when I am directing
my magic toward something that I want to bring into beings.
So I want to change about myself something, what's change
about the world around myself something and some opportunity I
want to bring to myself or to make myself aware of.
I I treat that not as a one way communication.
This is not like you would do like speak a
(01:12):
seek the spell, like and Harry Potter and go and
say the magic word and then the magic happens. No,
this is a back and forth. This is a communication
process similar to how you would if you're trying to
persuade or to reach an agreement with someone, unless you
have certain authority or whatnot, you wouldn't just dictate them
what you want. You would you would negotiate with them.
You would talk to them about what it is that
(01:33):
they need, what it is that you need. What did
find out what it is that they respond to? And
applying this to magic means that you can take that
that that same the same principles of communication to reach
an agreement and also to reach a makesically to find
what the phenomenon that you wish to bring about will
(01:57):
respond to.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
M So this is different than manifesting. You hear people say, okay,
you start with the vision board and you think about
certain things and that way you manifest it. So this
is completely different. It sounds almost like you're trying to,
I don't want to say manipulate, but you're trying to
take the situation and angle it in a way where
(02:20):
you'll be able to get what you want out of it.
Speaker 4 (02:23):
The way that I view it, magic is not so
much about creating results. It's about creating opportunities and what
those opportunities are. The act of magic makes you aware
of them so that you can be so you can
see them when they occur, and so that you can
direct your actions toward bringing them about. So while in
a broad sense, maybe it is a bit related to
(02:46):
the manifestation idea in a sense, but it's a bit
more nuanced I think from that.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Okay, so that's an interesting way to handle life. Do
you use it in everyday life? So, for example, you're
ordering a coffee at a Starbucks? Would you use it there?
Or is this like you're in a business deal and
you're trying to get the best deal out of the
other company. When would you use something like this?
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Right, Well, many things don't require magic at all. If
if it's simple to just walk across the room and
flip the light switch onto her the light on, then
that's the way you should do it. Same thing with
ordering your coffee. Now, when we were and this is
part of the communication background that I bring into the
book in a great deal of detail, let's take the
(03:30):
ordering a coffee example, because that's actually a really good one.
So let's talk about what's happening from just from a
pure communication point of view. So what you're doing is
you are engaged with what the philosopher Ludvig Vitckensheine will
call a language game. Now he's not using this in
a frivolous sense, but he's meaning that the language has
certain rules, there are certain plays that you make towards
(03:51):
certain ends, and part of effective communication in any particular
circumstances understanding what the rules are within that circumstance. So
with your ordering the coffee sample, you know you're expected
to have an idea of what it is you want
to order when you're when you're talking to the person
of the counter, you're expected to say certain pleasantries. You're
expected to you're not expected to long in want into
(04:14):
a long discussion about but anything unless you happen maybe
know the barista or something like that. And so the
rules of the game are that you basically you step up,
you have in mind what you want to order, and
then you you say the things that are necessary in
order to convey that order. So if we let's take
that in terms of look at magic at how that
applies to something where you would be used magic. So
(04:36):
you mentioned the business deal idea, and you also mentioned
earlier about wondering whether this is manipulation or something else.
So the way that I view magic, where it's most
ethically performed in any event, is that it's not an
act of compelling someone to do something. It's but it
is more akin to impelling someone to do something. Now
what the difference is there, And that's kind of subtle,
(04:58):
and maybe not everyone is used to using it, especially
impelling a normal conversation. It's the same if I give
use a rather blunt example, it's the same thing of
threatening someone to do something by you know, threatening to
hit them with a baseball bat or something, versus persuading
them to do it, versus making them want to do it,
or making with them want to cooperate with you.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And if you're in a.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Situation where where blunt force works, just fine, you don't
need something like magic. You just use blunt force, and
you shouldn't do that unless that's the only option. But
with your business deal example, I would first and work
as best I can to establish good, normal, communicating mundane
(05:45):
communication with the people that I'm interacting with, the people
I'm negotiating with. But as part of that, I'm going
to pay attention to the language that I use. I'm
going to pay attention to what sorts of signals and
what sorts of signs they give me to say the
things that are important to them, and I'm going to
very consciously try to adapt the way that I talk
(06:07):
to them into ways that they would be.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Most amenable to working with me on.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
So what I've done is I'm still have to negotiate
in the same way I would do any other part
of the business deal, but I've added something additional to
it that goes beyond just a meta communication, if you will,
something that's beyond just simple over communication. That is that
is adding to their willingness to work with.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Me on this deal.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
And so that's a very important thing about magic in
this sense, is that magic is rarely the only thing
that you rely on, is something you used to add
on to the other things you're already doing.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
M hm.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
That's interesting. Are some people more in tune with it?
And I'll give you an example, because I don't know
if it's a men versus women type of thing. So
when I'm out with my wife, she's very social, she's
very good at communicating with people. She knows the right
things to say, and you know she's she's very polite
in the way she'll do it. But if we're in
(07:02):
a social situation, for example, and we're talking to a
couple and I noticed the person's missing a finger, the
first thing I say is, how did you lose a finger?
And she'll look at me and say, you can't be
that direct with people. I think there's certain things where
people are in tune way to navigate social situations. I
don't think I'm one of those people. I think I'm
more direct. What do I have to learn here? What
(07:24):
could I be doing better when it comes to communication
in the background in order to try to get through
some of these situations that you're discussing.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Well, that's back to the meta communication idea that when
we're communicating with someone in any circumstance, there's always much
more that's going on beyond just the words. There is
the particular contact in which is happening. There is the
relative station of the people involved. Like you know, you
have a different conversation with a coworker or friend than
(07:54):
you would with the CEO of your company. And it
is true in my experience that women tend to have
a much greater sense of the meta communication that's in
play in most social interactions, and that that is a
ded a part of magic. It's part of what you
add on to the mundane, visible part of a situation
that make the wheels turn more smoothly, make make the
(08:17):
outcomes that you look conform more likely to achieve it,
and so forth. Now that being said, just as anyone
can learn to become a better communicator in a mundane
sense that it's a skill that can be improved. It's
a skill that you can you can learn how to
work with the things that that are sort of said
without being said that that you can. Some of this
(08:41):
you learn by example, but some of us also. If
you read about theories of communication, and there are quite
a number of ways that people approach communication as a
as a field of study, but there are there are
different ways to there's always different ways to achieve the
goal that you're looking for. But like any skill, you
(09:03):
will need to practice it and you will need to
start with good information.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Let's go back to some of your other interests. So
speaking of language, you have an interest in ruins. Out
of all of this play together, can you learn things
from let's say, ancient alphabets.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Oh, for sure.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Well, one of the things that we miss about the
alphabet is many people don't know the sort of the
history of the alphabet that we use, which is usually
called the Latin alphabet, because that's sort of where we
got it from the speakers of Latin as they spread
throughout Europe with the spread of Christianity. Well, the Latin
(09:43):
alphabet in turn was derived from the Greek alphabet, which
I think most people kind of have a sense of,
And if you go further back beyond that, the Greeks,
through a few levels of indirection, adapted from the Phoenicians.
So we're talking about this would have been at the
conclusion of what's called the Greek Dark Ages, So this
is around five or six hundred BC. I believe, maybe
(10:04):
a little further back. We don't exactly know when. We
have a bob of ark idea of when, just because
we can tell when they started using it for writing.
And so where I'm going with this and where this
kind of connects to your question is we're used to
just thinking of the letters that's A, B, C, D
and so forth, and that they have those special significance.
It's just that that letter maps to that sound, and
(10:25):
that's all we think of with it, because that's the
way that we use the alphabet. The Phoenicians, however, had
names for the letters, and the names were meaningful names,
and the letters basically started the the letter represented the
sound of the first sound in that name. So for example,
(10:47):
the first letter was off or there's a couple of
different plays to render it, but that's one of the
that means something like a house. That's the same. It's
actually the same as the Hebrew alphabet. I'll F is
the first letter. Now, when you have what's called an
acrophonic system, which is that using the sound of the
(11:08):
first sound of the word for the letter, now you
can give meaning to the letters. Instead of it just
being represented that sound, it can also represent that concept.
Not just sticking with the house example, not just sticking
with the you know, four walls and a roof and
all that, but like, what does the house mean to you?
(11:30):
What is the significance of it? Maybe you have some
image of home that comes to you. That's very that's
very poignant. Or that's very very emotional or brings back
memories and so forth. So when you have a system
about that and runs work the same way, and I'll
get to that in a second. Now you have additional
layers of meaning, you have additional meta communication.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
You can use this part of the normal communication that
you do with the alphabet.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Where can I take you? I mean, could you ever
research languages, research letters, the names behind letters, And that's
taking you to some weird places, because there's a lot
of mysteries in the world today that people have forgotten
about because little things like this have been lost over time.
So maybe there are subtexts that we don't understand anymore
(12:17):
in language, or you know, we read some ancient text
and we don't understand the context to it because it's
been lost over time. Do you find that learning things
like this help you unravel some mysteries in the world?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Oh? Absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
I mean that's the basis of things like a gamatria,
where where you basically interpret the number and the meaning
behind the individual letters in words of Greek or Hebrew
and so forth, to find a deeper meaning than just
what's in the word itself. So I can talk a
little bit about runes, because I'm more family with that
(12:54):
system that I am with the Hebrew of the Phoenician systems.
So runs also have they're also acrophonic in the same way.
So the first roun typically is a room called feyhu,
which is a very old word is related to our
modern word fee, but it means cattle in the very
mundane sense. But it also represents money because that was
(13:14):
movable wealth for the ancient dramatic people that rote with runes.
And but this is more.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Than just wealth. You think about think about the things
that wealth brings to you.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
So you can you have a certain level of power
within the world, you have a certain level of security,
you have a certain level you can you can use
that to parlay it into other things and so forth.
But think about what it means to have if we
run the power metaphor aspect, but think about what it
means to have and developed personal power. Well, that's something
that you can also cultivate it. You can grow it,
(13:47):
you can circulate it, you can share it, you can
use it, you can hoard it, all those.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Same things that you can do with money.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
So this opens up like a new dimension that you
can think of it if you think of with any
of the room UNEs, if you think of a mundane
the mundane surface level of what the rune name means,
but also the symbolic meaning within it. That opens up
blossom new avenues for not only understanding runs individually in
(14:16):
and of themselves, but also you can pull apart words,
for example, written in ruins and use certain ways of
writing words in order to invest them with the meaning
of the letters behind them, of the individual rune staves
as we call them behind them. So it's a way
of encoding additional meaning into it, also a way of
(14:38):
deriving meaning out of something that you find written in ruins?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Have we found that meanings have changed in our interpretations
of them are completely different than their intentions? So have
you studied some ruins or have you study certain words?
And the way that we think about them today are
completely different than the way they were thought of a
Why ago? Is there anything that comes to mind?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (15:03):
My go to example for that is I don't maybe
on a laptop with a touchpad. But most people stold
today remember having the little thing attached to it or
not attached anymore, called a mouse. Well, the thing wasn't
always called a mouse. Right at some point someone had said, hey,
that kind of looks like a mouse. And what started
as kind of a joke or a little you know,
(15:23):
a pun six, and now that thing is called a mouse.
And now you end up with where if it's connected
with Bluetooth, where there's there's no actual cable, it no
longer resembles a mouse that much. But that's just the
name we use for that thing.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
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