March 8, 2026 • 16 mins
Guest host Lisa Garr and author Daniel Bourke discuss dreaming about things before they occur in waking life.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Daniel Well for the break, I asked you the question,
if we were to live without a doubt that this exists,
that we can precognitively believe that our dreams will be
coming true, how would that shape our lives differently?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Absolutely well. In the book you will find many accounts
in which people are very clear that this moment, this strength,
this experience has changed their lives, very specifically, and that
comes in many different forms. I mean, the more obvious
one would be part of the title of the book,
Love at Second Sight. These accounts in which people claim
to have dreamed of their future lovers ahead of time.
(00:45):
In many of those cases there is In a number
of those cases it turns out later that the person
who was dreaming of their future lover are later told
by their future lover that they have been dreaming of
them all. So it was a kind of a reciprocal
or shared dream, as it were. And in many cases
(01:06):
this kind of convinces either or both that there is
a plan in place in the universe, there is a
destiny of which both of them are apart. And there
are even cases in the book, for example, where people
are brought to believe that the ghosts or the afterlife exists,
(01:26):
or consciousness continues based on these kinds of accounts. For example,
there was an account of a woman given to an
author called Jenny Smedley, who when she first met her
husband to be at an event before they knew each other,
he had given her his number, which she had thrown
it away as if she asked, she was quite she
was in a bit of a rush at the time,
(01:47):
and a few days later she dreamed of a teenage
boy who came to her and told her, quote unquote,
find this man again. So this woman noted, quote unquote,
I've never been so sure of the truth of anything
in my life before setting out to find this number.
And this comes back to you and her death experience,
where in many of these cases there is this sense
of truth and kind of you can't necessarily doubt the
(02:09):
meaning of this moment, and it's something you can't really
get across to others or listeners unless you've had the
experience yourself. In any case, the experience continues that when
she turned up at a different event the following month,
this man from her this sorry, this person from her
dream that he had met she had met was there. Surprisingly,
in a twist worthy of these ancient shared dreams that
(02:29):
I just mentioned a moment ago, she said, this woman, Sarah,
She said, I knew you'd be here, and I'm going
to marry of most interests. However, as she explains, she says,
we got together, and when I first visited his house,
I was stunned and surprised to find a picture in
his room of the same boy who had visited me
in my dream. In other words, yeah, in other words,
(02:49):
this boy who had urged her to find this man's
number again. When she meets with this man, she finds
a picture of this boy in the man's house, and
she finds out later that this was his son, who
had died some years previously in a car accident. Speaking
and based upon this experience, this woman actually was then
convinced that of the spirit world itself, of these existence
(03:11):
of spirits, for example. And that's why I think these
kinds of desia revet accounts are kind of important, even
if we don't kind of give credence to them as
precognitive or telepathic. These are very important cultural experiences and artifacts,
and that may have informed certain beliefs and rituals and
ceremonies et cetera, et cetera, across the kind of gamut
(03:33):
of human experience.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
So did they get married.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yes, they did get married eventually, thankfully. That is the
case in most of the accounts in the books in
the book.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, some accounts, yes, they don't write because you have
free will and you can choose that universe or another universe.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Absolutely, And you know, you know, fate is a mysterious thing.
You know, their life paths are mysterious things. You know
what I mean. It may be your life path. It
may be important for you as an individual to go
through an apparently perfect relationship that then turns out not
to be you know, I mean, in order to grow
as a person, in order to discover more about yourself
and others, and maybe then in order to be better
(04:14):
equipped to deal with people in the future and to
kind of love more freely, whether that's yourself or others.
You know, we, in other words, we shouldn't look at
these quote unquote negative experiences of this kind. And this
comes to the near death experience also and kind of
draw the line there and say they were negative. Therefore,
they were negative. You know, like anything in life, there's
(04:36):
much of meaning to be found in suffering, and there's
much to learn in suffering. There's much to learn in pain,
and this is something that we should kind of remember before,
you know, coming to the conclusion that it You know,
these things are perhaps less meaningful if they initially seem
to turn out kind of badly.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Do you hear a lot of experiences, like are you
asking people to actively reach out to you that have
had these experiences.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Like to some extent, not massively, like I would be
happy to hear people's experiences, absolutely, but I have spoken
to people online, for example, And a number of the
accounts in the book were kind of directly asked for
and spoken about and kind of followed up on in
(05:24):
a kind of a journalistic fashion. Most of them were
gathered from and this speaks to my work in general.
In most of my books, I will include somewhere in
the region of five hundred issh accounts, and they come
from the records. They come from the broad sweep and
span of history. So you'll find a counc from Ancient Greece,
Roman Egypt, whether it's then through the kind of the
(05:46):
Romantic period. Then it's into the Middle Ages, et cetera.
You will find them from ethnological and anthropological records, et cetera,
et cetera. And that is kind of that kind of
broad gamut is something that I tried to kind of
the reader. I want the reader to understand, these are
very much normal, widespread, ongoing human experiences. Whatever where to
(06:07):
make of them, they have been reported there. You'll find
them in the folklore. You'll find them everywhere in this
in the lives of the saints, for example. And yeah,
that kind of that's that's the kind of the broad
sweep that I tried to cover.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
True.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
True, that is true, It is in history, many different
references in religions and so forth. What drew you to
this work as a poet, a songwriter, and a background
in video games, I mean, how did you possibly get
drawn to this work?
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Well, I will say that I was drawn to this
specific work for this book for Deja Reva purely based
on my research for the previous book. So with the
previous book, Telepathic Tales, which kind of deals with again
historical and cross cultural accounts, rare accounts of esp It
(07:00):
was when I was doing the research for that book
that I kept coming across these accounts. I kept they
kept kind of coming across my desk, as it were,
and something about them just truly fascinated me. It's to
some extent this book compared to the previous too, it's
almost like a blur, to be honest, when I think
about writing it and the process and the research, it
(07:22):
almost feels like it didn't happen. It's very strange. But
to put it very simply, I came across these accounts,
I realized how many there were from various sources, and
I had the sense that they should be compiled, so
I decided to do it. That's really all it is.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I wonder if you can prompt the deja vus, so
you could go into the dream state and ask for
your soulmate to show themselves, or your future partner or something.
Have you experimented with that.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Well, I haven't personally, but I mean this is like,
this speaks to a lot of things. For example, in
my own country, Ireland. You know the idea that the
individual that individuals may dream ahead of time. It wasn't
a strange idea like there that these types of like
you asked, could we engender these types of days in
(08:14):
reve experiences, this was common, but I.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
Know you're going to want some them after hearing this.
This is an amazing story. We've got Stephen and Malachi
Gregory in Nelson, New Zealand. Now I understand that Malachi,
who is eight almost nine years old now, was suffering
with not just one or two warts, but I mean
as significant outbreak of warts all over his body, so
significant it impacted his ability to really function. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
Yeah, he was having trouble even holding a pencil to right.
Ever Tis book. Actually that got me thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I'm not surprised.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
It is an amazing immuno modulator, and so I can
see that it would work. And so at what point
did you see that there was actually improvement It's really
going to work.
Speaker 6 (08:55):
Well, look, we really started to notice it around twelve weeks.
You can see these things at actually getting smaller and smaller,
and then going down to the with just a little
red marks. The whole things are gone and we're talking
about what's you know one that size for Warner, I thought,
no way, that's gonna wow. That's just been miraculous to
see him get into a pair of shoes.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
Yes, how wonderful.
Speaker 6 (09:17):
It's great to see.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
I'm so happy and yet absolutely wonderful.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Friends that have seen it, that is blown away.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Hi, this is awesome.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, this is awesome.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Another amazing story. Why we're talking about Carnivora. Call them
to awaken your immune system and protect yourself now called
one eight sixty six eight three six eighty seven thirty five.
That's one eight six six eight three six eighty seven
thirty five. Or visit Carnivora dot com c A r
niv O r A carnivora dot com.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Among the Druids, for example, there is a ceremony called
the tar of Esh, which is the bull, a type
of ceremony called the Bull ceremony, the Bull Festival, and
it invites it's a ceremony which is kind of carry
out in order to find the future High King of Ireland.
And the way it's done is that the individual is
put into a kind of a psychedelically induced sleep of
(10:08):
sorts and they're put in that state of consciousness specifically
so that they will dream of who will be the
future King of Ireland. And it's not it's not a
dream that has taken to be an unreal thing. The
individual dreamed of is then later searched for across the country.
And these kinds of accounts come out all across Europe,
(10:29):
especially in the early modern period. You'll find it so
many poems and ditties and charms and things related to,
you know, methods of divination in which the individual will
find their future husband or wife like we could. There
are so many examples, like in Scotland they say, look
over your left shoulder, pick up an item, gaze at
(10:50):
the moon and say, for example, new Moon and Moon
of Truth, tell me without falsehood, in what direction my
love lies, the clothes that he wears and the color
of his hair. There are dozens of these poems and
many of them that I've kind of collected in the book,
and they speak to exactly your question. These capacities were
believed in, considered possible, and I believe that much of
(11:10):
the folklore was was probably informed by these kinds of
actual experiences. And the recent people took them seriously is
because as people are still undergoing, these experiences occurred to
them and they had a profound impact upon them.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Interesting, well, I mean, have you interviewed people that have
had the experience of feeling they were abducted where it
was a visceral experience for them in a dream.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Specifically, you haven't specifically, but it is a fascinating topic
and I'm curious were there any connections you're thinking of
making there with the question?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I invite our listeners of course to call in with
their experiences, but we will will do that at the
top of the hour. But yeah, I'm wondering if these
these meetings that people have, how do you remember them?
I mean, how do do you go to sleep with
the intention to say I want to dream as you
just said, or are these just accounts of those real
(12:13):
lucid dreams that you really do remember?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yeah, well, in these cases specifically, especially in kind of
early modern England, across Europe, even in as far as Serbia,
and even as far south and east as Pakistan for example.
Like the method is quite similar. It involves it often
involves a somewhat elaborate ritual, but in other cases it
(12:38):
simply involves reciting like one of those ditties that I mentioned,
but along with putting something under your pillow and for me,
for me, what these but these things are about what?
It's not so important to focus on the exact contents
of the poem or the divination for example, or exactly
what is being put under the pillow. For me, it's
(13:01):
what I think these people are doing is they're putting
themselves in a particularly receptive state of mind by whatever
means works for them. So it's about putting yourself in
that receptive state of mind in order that you may
potentially engender or undergo one of these kinds of experiences.
And you know, again this kind of connects back to
(13:22):
the kind of research in my work relating to kind
of indigenous peoples because for them, for example, we I
look at the example many examples, like in Indonesia, a
tribe called the Tarajans. Like for them, it's so ordinary
that while they are sleep that they would leave their bodies.
Like they it's understood that you can't leave your body.
You may view the world around you, you may travel,
(13:43):
you may even visit places while you're a sleep that
you've never been before while you're awake. So for them,
when they come across one of these moments, this stage
of reveal, this even the stage of the it isn't
as deeply uncanny as it is for us, because the
explanation comes to their song very quickly. Oh, my soul
has been here before. That's why I recognize this place.
(14:05):
So it's really a Western thing as to why it's
so kind of uncanny and strange and confusing, And yeah,
I think that's why. You see, you find so many
of these accounts of people trying to come up with
these experiences on different mets.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Is to do it that makes answers. My prior question
is if we were to live without doubt around this,
what would our lives be or how would our lives
be different? And you say there's an entire tribe. Where
else in history or ancient texts or religion is this referenced?
Of course, we know it from the culture in India,
(14:41):
and you mentioned another one in Africa. Are there any
other texts where this exists where absolutely?
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I mean you mentioned India, like that entire part of
the world. You know, these kinds of experiences are extremely
common in Turkey, for example, the Turkish folklore is completely
packed with experience of this kind and also general experiences
which are indistinguishable from extra sensory perception. The way I
(15:08):
like to say it is that in the folklore you
will find experiences that are indistinguishable from those collected by
parapsychological researchers. I'm not saying that therefore they're the same,
but I'm saying that therefore we should look at them
because they're extremely similar. Like I could pick out one
example of a case from Turkey, which came from nineteen
eighty one. A man muzafyr Ozak, working in his bookstore,
(15:31):
dreamed he's in the middle of a coastal town called
Bosphorus in a damaged sailing boat during a wild storm.
A stranger hands him on note explaining how he could
avoid disaster. Having come back to the shop the following
morning after the dream. According to this man, he says,
I saw the very person who had given me the
paper in my dream passing in front of my shop.
(15:51):
He went on to dream of this man a couple
of more times before working up the courage to speak
to him. He turned out to be this kind of
important chic, And this man actually became his master, became
his dervish as teacher, and he studied under him for
seven years, going on to become a renowned email himself.
And this again speaks to your previous question. There are
so many examples of these desa braves in which were
(16:12):
led to people who are going to be important in
our lives.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one am Eastern, and go to Coast to coastam dot
com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Daniel Well for the break, I asked you the question,
if we were to live without a doubt that this exists,
that we can precognitively believe that our dreams will be
coming true, how would that shape our lives differently?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Absolutely well. In the book you will find many accounts
in which people are very clear that this moment, this strength,
this experience has changed their lives, very specifically, and that
comes in many different forms. I mean, the more obvious
one would be part of the title of the book,
Love at Second Sight. These accounts in which people claim
to have dreamed of their future lovers ahead of time.
(00:45):
In many of those cases there is In a number
of those cases it turns out later that the person
who was dreaming of their future lover are later told
by their future lover that they have been dreaming of
them all. So it was a kind of a reciprocal
or shared dream, as it were. And in many cases
(01:06):
this kind of convinces either or both that there is
a plan in place in the universe, there is a
destiny of which both of them are apart. And there
are even cases in the book, for example, where people
are brought to believe that the ghosts or the afterlife exists,
(01:26):
or consciousness continues based on these kinds of accounts. For example,
there was an account of a woman given to an
author called Jenny Smedley, who when she first met her
husband to be at an event before they knew each other,
he had given her his number, which she had thrown
it away as if she asked, she was quite she
was in a bit of a rush at the time,
(01:47):
and a few days later she dreamed of a teenage
boy who came to her and told her, quote unquote,
find this man again. So this woman noted, quote unquote,
I've never been so sure of the truth of anything
in my life before setting out to find this number.
And this comes back to you and her death experience,
where in many of these cases there is this sense
of truth and kind of you can't necessarily doubt the
(02:09):
meaning of this moment, and it's something you can't really
get across to others or listeners unless you've had the
experience yourself. In any case, the experience continues that when
she turned up at a different event the following month,
this man from her this sorry, this person from her
dream that he had met she had met was there. Surprisingly,
in a twist worthy of these ancient shared dreams that
(02:29):
I just mentioned a moment ago, she said, this woman, Sarah,
She said, I knew you'd be here, and I'm going
to marry of most interests. However, as she explains, she says,
we got together, and when I first visited his house,
I was stunned and surprised to find a picture in
his room of the same boy who had visited me
in my dream. In other words, yeah, in other words,
(02:49):
this boy who had urged her to find this man's
number again. When she meets with this man, she finds
a picture of this boy in the man's house, and
she finds out later that this was his son, who
had died some years previously in a car accident. Speaking
and based upon this experience, this woman actually was then
convinced that of the spirit world itself, of these existence
(03:11):
of spirits, for example. And that's why I think these
kinds of desia revet accounts are kind of important, even
if we don't kind of give credence to them as
precognitive or telepathic. These are very important cultural experiences and artifacts,
and that may have informed certain beliefs and rituals and
ceremonies et cetera, et cetera, across the kind of gamut
(03:33):
of human experience.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
So did they get married.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yes, they did get married eventually, thankfully. That is the
case in most of the accounts in the books in
the book.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, some accounts, yes, they don't write because you have
free will and you can choose that universe or another universe.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Absolutely, And you know, you know, fate is a mysterious thing.
You know, their life paths are mysterious things. You know
what I mean. It may be your life path. It
may be important for you as an individual to go
through an apparently perfect relationship that then turns out not
to be you know, I mean, in order to grow
as a person, in order to discover more about yourself
and others, and maybe then in order to be better
(04:14):
equipped to deal with people in the future and to
kind of love more freely, whether that's yourself or others.
You know, we, in other words, we shouldn't look at
these quote unquote negative experiences of this kind. And this
comes to the near death experience also and kind of
draw the line there and say they were negative. Therefore,
they were negative. You know, like anything in life, there's
(04:36):
much of meaning to be found in suffering, and there's
much to learn in suffering. There's much to learn in pain,
and this is something that we should kind of remember before,
you know, coming to the conclusion that it You know,
these things are perhaps less meaningful if they initially seem
to turn out kind of badly.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Do you hear a lot of experiences, like are you
asking people to actively reach out to you that have
had these experiences.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Like to some extent, not massively, like I would be
happy to hear people's experiences, absolutely, but I have spoken
to people online, for example, And a number of the
accounts in the book were kind of directly asked for
and spoken about and kind of followed up on in
(05:24):
a kind of a journalistic fashion. Most of them were
gathered from and this speaks to my work in general.
In most of my books, I will include somewhere in
the region of five hundred issh accounts, and they come
from the records. They come from the broad sweep and
span of history. So you'll find a counc from Ancient Greece,
Roman Egypt, whether it's then through the kind of the
(05:46):
Romantic period. Then it's into the Middle Ages, et cetera.
You will find them from ethnological and anthropological records, et cetera,
et cetera. And that is kind of that kind of
broad gamut is something that I tried to kind of
the reader. I want the reader to understand, these are
very much normal, widespread, ongoing human experiences. Whatever where to
(06:07):
make of them, they have been reported there. You'll find
them in the folklore. You'll find them everywhere in this
in the lives of the saints, for example. And yeah,
that kind of that's that's the kind of the broad
sweep that I tried to cover.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
True.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
True, that is true, It is in history, many different
references in religions and so forth. What drew you to
this work as a poet, a songwriter, and a background
in video games, I mean, how did you possibly get
drawn to this work?
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Well, I will say that I was drawn to this
specific work for this book for Deja Reva purely based
on my research for the previous book. So with the
previous book, Telepathic Tales, which kind of deals with again
historical and cross cultural accounts, rare accounts of esp It
(07:00):
was when I was doing the research for that book
that I kept coming across these accounts. I kept they
kept kind of coming across my desk, as it were,
and something about them just truly fascinated me. It's to
some extent this book compared to the previous too, it's
almost like a blur, to be honest, when I think
about writing it and the process and the research, it
(07:22):
almost feels like it didn't happen. It's very strange. But
to put it very simply, I came across these accounts,
I realized how many there were from various sources, and
I had the sense that they should be compiled, so
I decided to do it. That's really all it is.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I wonder if you can prompt the deja vus, so
you could go into the dream state and ask for
your soulmate to show themselves, or your future partner or something.
Have you experimented with that.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Well, I haven't personally, but I mean this is like,
this speaks to a lot of things. For example, in
my own country, Ireland. You know the idea that the
individual that individuals may dream ahead of time. It wasn't
a strange idea like there that these types of like
you asked, could we engender these types of days in
(08:14):
reve experiences, this was common, but I.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
Know you're going to want some them after hearing this.
This is an amazing story. We've got Stephen and Malachi
Gregory in Nelson, New Zealand. Now I understand that Malachi,
who is eight almost nine years old now, was suffering
with not just one or two warts, but I mean
as significant outbreak of warts all over his body, so
significant it impacted his ability to really function. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (08:38):
Yeah, he was having trouble even holding a pencil to right.
Ever Tis book. Actually that got me thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I'm not surprised.
Speaker 5 (08:45):
It is an amazing immuno modulator, and so I can
see that it would work. And so at what point
did you see that there was actually improvement It's really
going to work.
Speaker 6 (08:55):
Well, look, we really started to notice it around twelve weeks.
You can see these things at actually getting smaller and smaller,
and then going down to the with just a little
red marks. The whole things are gone and we're talking
about what's you know one that size for Warner, I thought,
no way, that's gonna wow. That's just been miraculous to
see him get into a pair of shoes.
Speaker 5 (09:14):
Yes, how wonderful.
Speaker 6 (09:17):
It's great to see.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
I'm so happy and yet absolutely wonderful.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Friends that have seen it, that is blown away.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Hi, this is awesome.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, this is awesome.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Another amazing story. Why we're talking about Carnivora. Call them
to awaken your immune system and protect yourself now called
one eight sixty six eight three six eighty seven thirty five.
That's one eight six six eight three six eighty seven
thirty five. Or visit Carnivora dot com c A r
niv O r A carnivora dot com.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Among the Druids, for example, there is a ceremony called
the tar of Esh, which is the bull, a type
of ceremony called the Bull ceremony, the Bull Festival, and
it invites it's a ceremony which is kind of carry
out in order to find the future High King of Ireland.
And the way it's done is that the individual is
put into a kind of a psychedelically induced sleep of
(10:08):
sorts and they're put in that state of consciousness specifically
so that they will dream of who will be the
future King of Ireland. And it's not it's not a
dream that has taken to be an unreal thing. The
individual dreamed of is then later searched for across the country.
And these kinds of accounts come out all across Europe,
(10:29):
especially in the early modern period. You'll find it so
many poems and ditties and charms and things related to,
you know, methods of divination in which the individual will
find their future husband or wife like we could. There
are so many examples, like in Scotland they say, look
over your left shoulder, pick up an item, gaze at
(10:50):
the moon and say, for example, new Moon and Moon
of Truth, tell me without falsehood, in what direction my
love lies, the clothes that he wears and the color
of his hair. There are dozens of these poems and
many of them that I've kind of collected in the book,
and they speak to exactly your question. These capacities were
believed in, considered possible, and I believe that much of
(11:10):
the folklore was was probably informed by these kinds of
actual experiences. And the recent people took them seriously is
because as people are still undergoing, these experiences occurred to
them and they had a profound impact upon them.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Interesting, well, I mean, have you interviewed people that have
had the experience of feeling they were abducted where it
was a visceral experience for them in a dream.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Specifically, you haven't specifically, but it is a fascinating topic
and I'm curious were there any connections you're thinking of
making there with the question?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
I invite our listeners of course to call in with
their experiences, but we will will do that at the
top of the hour. But yeah, I'm wondering if these
these meetings that people have, how do you remember them?
I mean, how do do you go to sleep with
the intention to say I want to dream as you
just said, or are these just accounts of those real
(12:13):
lucid dreams that you really do remember?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Yeah, well, in these cases specifically, especially in kind of
early modern England, across Europe, even in as far as Serbia,
and even as far south and east as Pakistan for example.
Like the method is quite similar. It involves it often
involves a somewhat elaborate ritual, but in other cases it
(12:38):
simply involves reciting like one of those ditties that I mentioned,
but along with putting something under your pillow and for me,
for me, what these but these things are about what?
It's not so important to focus on the exact contents
of the poem or the divination for example, or exactly
what is being put under the pillow. For me, it's
(13:01):
what I think these people are doing is they're putting
themselves in a particularly receptive state of mind by whatever
means works for them. So it's about putting yourself in
that receptive state of mind in order that you may
potentially engender or undergo one of these kinds of experiences.
And you know, again this kind of connects back to
(13:22):
the kind of research in my work relating to kind
of indigenous peoples because for them, for example, we I
look at the example many examples, like in Indonesia, a
tribe called the Tarajans. Like for them, it's so ordinary
that while they are sleep that they would leave their bodies.
Like they it's understood that you can't leave your body.
You may view the world around you, you may travel,
(13:43):
you may even visit places while you're a sleep that
you've never been before while you're awake. So for them,
when they come across one of these moments, this stage
of reveal, this even the stage of the it isn't
as deeply uncanny as it is for us, because the
explanation comes to their song very quickly. Oh, my soul
has been here before. That's why I recognize this place.
(14:05):
So it's really a Western thing as to why it's
so kind of uncanny and strange and confusing, And yeah,
I think that's why. You see, you find so many
of these accounts of people trying to come up with
these experiences on different mets.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Is to do it that makes answers. My prior question
is if we were to live without doubt around this,
what would our lives be or how would our lives
be different? And you say there's an entire tribe. Where
else in history or ancient texts or religion is this referenced?
Of course, we know it from the culture in India,
(14:41):
and you mentioned another one in Africa. Are there any
other texts where this exists where absolutely?
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I mean you mentioned India, like that entire part of
the world. You know, these kinds of experiences are extremely
common in Turkey, for example, the Turkish folklore is completely
packed with experience of this kind and also general experiences
which are indistinguishable from extra sensory perception. The way I
(15:08):
like to say it is that in the folklore you
will find experiences that are indistinguishable from those collected by
parapsychological researchers. I'm not saying that therefore they're the same,
but I'm saying that therefore we should look at them
because they're extremely similar. Like I could pick out one
example of a case from Turkey, which came from nineteen
eighty one. A man muzafyr Ozak, working in his bookstore,
(15:31):
dreamed he's in the middle of a coastal town called
Bosphorus in a damaged sailing boat during a wild storm.
A stranger hands him on note explaining how he could
avoid disaster. Having come back to the shop the following
morning after the dream. According to this man, he says,
I saw the very person who had given me the
paper in my dream passing in front of my shop.
(15:51):
He went on to dream of this man a couple
of more times before working up the courage to speak
to him. He turned out to be this kind of
important chic, And this man actually became his master, became
his dervish as teacher, and he studied under him for
seven years, going on to become a renowned email himself.
And this again speaks to your previous question. There are
so many examples of these desa braves in which were
(16:12):
led to people who are going to be important in
our lives.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
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George Noory
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