April 30, 2026 • 20 mins
George Noory and Dr. Andrew Silverman explore his research into the Shroud of Turin, the purported burial cloth of Jesus, the forensic evidence of the bloodstains on the cloth that could prove that it is authentic, and the energy burst that created the photorealistic image on the cloth.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you.
Andrew Silverman back with US. Medical doctor with a background
in physics. He has been conducting research on the mind
matter continuum, near death experiences, and the turn Shroud for
more than thirty years. He is widely recognized as one
of the leading experts on the shroud and is currently
(00:25):
in collaboration with other major scientists from around the world
to solve the riddle of this unique object and how
the image might have been formed. Andrew, welcome back. Have
you been.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I've been very well, Thank you and you good.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I'm looking forward to this and you're on with me.
Five years ago we were talking about your book, Burst
of Conscious Light. That's right, that was one of it. It
was a great book.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
You.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
In the meantime, we lost Barry Schwartz, the great Shroud photographer.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yes, I'm a good friend. Were very sad to lease him.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, how did you get involved in the Shroud?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Well, you know it was actually when I was just
a teenager, a friend of mine showed me a video
of a documentary film actually won Awards in the UK,
produced by David Rolf, which was filmed around the step
(01:26):
visit to Turin, which was, as many of your listeners
may know, this was in the nineteen seventies and it
was around the clock for several days access for scientists
from Jet Propulsion Laboratory and various other major scientific institutions
(01:47):
to full access to the shroud to study it, to
look at the image, to look at it microscopically, and
so on, and at the conclusion that the that the
scientist came to is that the image on the shroud
was not the product of an artist of a forger.
(02:09):
In fact, they couldn't account for how the image could
have been possibly manufactured. In fact, it appeared as though
the image may have been formed by a short intense
burst of radiant energy that came from the dead body
that was that was that was wrapped in the shroud.
(02:31):
And this as a hearing about this as a as
a as a young lad, it got me, you know,
really fascinated by it, and I wanted to learn more
about science and medicine and to try to understand how
such a thing might be might be possible. And it
ended up sort of going way beyond what I what
(02:54):
I had expected, because to understand this one needed to
understand not just about a cloth or or about forensic pathology,
about what it showed about what had happened to this man,
but how such a thing was possible, that a short,
intense burst of radiant energy could come from the dead
(03:16):
body of a man. And that led me on a
journey to looking at things like quantum physics and the
connection between mind and matter and basically the nature of
consciousness to try to understand it. And that's what my
book was about.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Good for you now to the very few people who
may not know what the shroud is Andrew, please explain
to them what it might be.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Indeed, it's a fourteen foot long piece of cloth that's
called the Shroud of Turin because the recent history it's
been that's where it's been. It's been in Turin, although
its history can be traced back via France and probably
before that to Turkey, and before that well to Jerusalem.
(04:09):
And it has on it some bloodstains which have been
looked at by forensic pathologists who have concluded that the
shroud once wrapped the recently deceased body of a man
who had been the victim of Roman crucifixion. From the
bloodstains we can see that this is what has happened
(04:31):
to him. He'd also been whipped. He had had and
the nails had not been through the hands as one
often sees in art, and particularly in medieval art. It
wasn't through the hands. It was actually through the wrists,
which fits anatomically with what we now know, but wouldn't
have people wouldn't have known about that hundreds of years ago.
(04:55):
And as well as the bloodstains, it also contains the
image of a man, which for over a thousand years
appeared to be very faint CPR yellow image of the
shape of a man, until in the towards the end
of the nineteenth century, after photography was first used. Then
(05:20):
it was found that when somebody took a photograph of it,
they looked at the photographic negative and they saw that
the negative of the shroud image actually looks like a positive.
So there are although it's not a photographic negative, it
does have properties in some way similar to a photographic negative.
(05:41):
The image on the shroud and when the sturb team
looked at it, one of the researchers, Dr John Jackson,
who still is. A researcher on the shroud made a
fascinating discovery. This was actually even before sturb went. I
believe that when you look at the image on the shroud,
(06:03):
it appears to have something called distance coded information. So
if you take an ordinary photograph and you can look
at the brightness of the image, and you put it
through a machine called an image intensifier, which was used
to interpret X rays, the photograph will have a random
(06:24):
set of peaks and troughs, because a normal photograph doesn't
capture the distance that the body or the person was
from the camera. But when you do it to the shroud,
it comes out in relief, which suggested, and I think
he was right to Dr Jackson, that the image may
(06:45):
have been formed by as I say, it's short intense
burst of raging tenergy that came from the shroud. Now,
many of the listeners may have heard about the carbon
dating that was done in the late nineteen eighties, because
that was widely publicized as showing that it had the
(07:06):
shroud had a medieval origin. But now when you look
at the statistics of the actual raw data, it shows
and this was in a peer reviewed journal article by
someone called Rianni, who looked into this in more depth.
The age apparent age of the cloth varies according to
(07:30):
how close it is to the edge of the cloth,
and some great researchers by the name of Sue Benford
and Joseph Marino actually found that there was a difference
between the tiny air of the shroud that was carbon
dated and the rest of the shroud, that the part
(07:51):
that was dated was not representative of the rest of
the cloth. And they found convincing evidence that the the
part that was dated was actually subject to a much
later repair because of the corners were where it was
most damaged by frequent handling and people taking bits off
it to give away as so called relics and so on.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
And the material was probably from the medieval times, then,
wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
The material was actually more even more recent than that
the material I think they found it was probably sixteenth century.
And it's the combination of this much later material together
with the much older original cloth that gives the skewed
(08:39):
the skewed dating. Now, they put this research to someone
who had worked closely with the with the sturb team
who was working at Los Alamos Laboratories, Raymond Rodgers and
he at the time of the step research, he'd originally
(09:03):
seen that Okay, there's no way anyone could possibly synthesize
the manufacture this image, so it must be it must
be genuine. But when the carbon dating came out, because
he was a man of science and wants to follow
the evidence, he thought, well, maybe I was wrong, maybe
it is medieval. But Benford and Marino reached out to him,
and he says was in the early two thousands. He said,
(09:26):
I've got them material to prove these At the time,
he called them fringe researchers to prove them wrong, because
I've got I can access some material from the area
that was carbon dated, as well as some material from
elsewhere on the shroud, and as a chemist who had
been working at Los Alamos, he did some tests, chemical tests,
(09:49):
and he went on the record publicly and saying I
set out to prove them wrong. I've proved them right.
And he published his data in a peer reviewed scientific
journal showing that actually Benford and Marino were right. It
does look like the part that was carbon dated was
subject to a much later repair with much more recent
(10:11):
material and doesn't represent the rest of the cloth, and
even one of the actual people on the carbon dating team,
who was at the time was a scientist with the
Oxford team and since then became actually the leader of
the Oxford Radio Carbon Lab. He went on the record
in a later documentary, also by David Roff, saying that
(10:35):
that the shroud has so much evidence pointing to a
much earlier date than the carbon dating showed. That despite
what the carbon dating showed, he feels that more research
should be done to try to understand the origins of
what he called this intriguing cloth.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
And I know you're going to want some them after
hearing this. This is an amazing story.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
We've got Stephen and Malachi Gregory in Nelson, New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
I understand that Malachi, who's eight almost nine years old now,
was suffering with not just one or two warts, but
I mean a significant outbreak of warts all over his body,
so significant it impacted his ability to really function.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
Yeah, he was having trouble even holding a pencil to right.
Was Tie's book. Actually that got me thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
I'm not surprised.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
It is an amazing immuno modulator, and so I can
see that it would work. And so at what point
did you see that there was actually improvement. It's really
going to work.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
Well, we really started to notice it around twelve weeks.
You can see these things actually getting smaller and smaller
and then going down to with just little red monks.
The whole things are gone and we're talking about what's
you know one the size of the wanner. I thought,
no way, that's gonna Wow. That's just been miraculous to
see him get into a pair of shoes.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yes, how wonderful.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
It's great to see him so happy.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
And yeah, absolutely wonderful.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Friends that have seen it, that is blown away.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Ty, this is awesome.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, this is awesome.
Speaker 6 (12:01):
Another amazing story. Why we're talking about Carnivora. Call them
to awaken your immune system and protect yourself now called
one eight sixty six eight three six eighty seven thirty five.
That's one eight six six eight three six eighty seven
thirty five, or visit carnivora dot com c A R
N I v O r A carnivora dot com.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
At what point, Andrew, did they begin to say that
the cloth was the image of Jesus.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yes, that's a that's a very good point. Well, it
is the the image of a man who forensically, we
can tell he's been crucified. Not only has he been
been crucified, but there are bloodstains from sharp objects that
were placed upon upon his his head, that there was
(12:51):
bleeding from the scalp, and also a wound, a wound
in the site. Now from the the interesting thing is
that we can tell from the pollen data that has
been found on the shroud that it was exposed to
the elements around March or April in the environs of Jerusalem. Now,
(13:19):
the interesting thing is that this was a victim of
Roman crucifixion. So we have to consider that this was
this person who had been killed by the Romans, was
there during the Roman occupation, and we can be more
specific than that.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
And Christ was killed by the Romans, right, yes.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
We could, and we could be more specific about the timing.
Not only do we know it was in March or April,
but for most of the time when the Romans were
killing people, were executing them, they just left the bodies
out to the elements and to the wild ane and
so on, and to rot and so on. But there
(14:05):
was a certain historical period between Common Era ID whatever
we call it, six and sixty six when the Romans
made a compromise with the sort of religious leaders of
the Jews at the time in Judea, which was where
(14:26):
Jerusalem was, that they would at least they weren't going
They didn't agree to stop crucifying people, but they did
agree that they would allow traditional Jewish burial, and the
Jewish burial means a quick burial that when someone is dead,
they have to be removed from the cross and very quickly,
(14:47):
and from the fact that there aren't signs of decay,
putrefaction and so on the shroud, and then there aren't
sort of bits missing from his flesh, so to speak,
he hasn't been just left out there to putrefy and
for the animals. This is a man who was buried
soon after the crucifixion. So it's a victim, a Jewish
(15:13):
victim of Roman crucifixion, who had been crucified between the
years of six and sixty six, sometime in March or
April around Jerusalem, and who uniquely had been tortured with
a cap of sharp objects on his head and had
also been been lanced in the side of his body
(15:36):
as well. So it does you know, there is a
lot of evidence one can never say conclusively that this
is the historical Jesus of Nazareth, but there is a
huge amount of evidence suggesting that it is.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
At what point did the story come out that it
could be Jesus? How far back.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Well, I mean, it's the historian and Ian Wilson has
has looked into this, and there is some suggestion that
that the that the shroud may have that during the
time when when Jesus was alive, there was someone in
(16:18):
it does in what is now Turkey, a king Abgar
who was unwell and had heard about Jesus' capacity to
to heal people, and had had sent a message via
a messenger. Of course, no emails in those things.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
No text messages.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
That's right to say, you know, would Jesus come and
come and visit him and and and heal him? And
apparently a message came back that that he would get
to him in some way. And it's said that according
(17:01):
to the historians research that that when after jesus death,
the shroud itself was was taken to to him, and
that there are is from from the sort of contemporaneous times,
then there are reports of an image of of a
(17:26):
human being that wasn't made by human hands, so to speak.
That people didn't understand how it how it got there.
And and so that does again tie tie the cloth
to the historical Jesus Natareth.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
So Jesus never was able to get to this Turkish
leader in time. Yes, he got crucified before he was
able to get there, right.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yes, if and if if that had been his plan
to get there, but he so he didn't go there
in person, but his his followers, So the evidence goes
may have taken the shroud there instead.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Did the shroud heal the leader?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
I think that's what the report says.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yes, that's amazing. Was there blood andrew on the shroud?
And if so, have they ever tried the DNA it?
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Now? You see the thing is the there is blood
on the shroud, and it has been tested by the
scientists who are part of the STIRP team, and it
it does bear the hallmarks that are consistent with it
being human blood. And the and interestingly, the one can
(18:49):
see that blood consists of cells. And also when the
blood clots, there's a clear fluid called serum slightly that
that goes on the edge of the clots, and one
can actually see that there's a fluorescence of the serum
un darted violet light, which is what would be expected,
and the blood actually is think from the image. The blood,
(19:12):
as one would expect, goes right through the fibers and
penetrates the cloth, whereas the image is one thousandth of
one five thousandth of a millimeter in thickness, far less
than a human hair. But one has to remember that
(19:36):
the shroud has been handled by so many people over
the centuries, the DNA firstly wouldn't remain intact, and also
there's so many people's DNA on this cloth that it
would be be very difficult to know which one was
from the man of the shroud.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one a m Easter and go to Coast to Coasta
m dot com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you.
Andrew Silverman back with US. Medical doctor with a background
in physics. He has been conducting research on the mind
matter continuum, near death experiences, and the turn Shroud for
more than thirty years. He is widely recognized as one
of the leading experts on the shroud and is currently
(00:25):
in collaboration with other major scientists from around the world
to solve the riddle of this unique object and how
the image might have been formed. Andrew, welcome back. Have
you been.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I've been very well, Thank you and you good.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I'm looking forward to this and you're on with me.
Five years ago we were talking about your book, Burst
of Conscious Light. That's right, that was one of it. It
was a great book.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
You.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
In the meantime, we lost Barry Schwartz, the great Shroud photographer.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yes, I'm a good friend. Were very sad to lease him.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, how did you get involved in the Shroud?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Well, you know it was actually when I was just
a teenager, a friend of mine showed me a video
of a documentary film actually won Awards in the UK,
produced by David Rolf, which was filmed around the step
(01:26):
visit to Turin, which was, as many of your listeners
may know, this was in the nineteen seventies and it
was around the clock for several days access for scientists
from Jet Propulsion Laboratory and various other major scientific institutions
(01:47):
to full access to the shroud to study it, to
look at the image, to look at it microscopically, and
so on, and at the conclusion that the that the
scientist came to is that the image on the shroud
was not the product of an artist of a forger.
(02:09):
In fact, they couldn't account for how the image could
have been possibly manufactured. In fact, it appeared as though
the image may have been formed by a short intense
burst of radiant energy that came from the dead body
that was that was that was wrapped in the shroud.
(02:31):
And this as a hearing about this as a as
a as a young lad, it got me, you know,
really fascinated by it, and I wanted to learn more
about science and medicine and to try to understand how
such a thing might be might be possible. And it
ended up sort of going way beyond what I what
(02:54):
I had expected, because to understand this one needed to
understand not just about a cloth or or about forensic pathology,
about what it showed about what had happened to this man,
but how such a thing was possible, that a short,
intense burst of radiant energy could come from the dead
(03:16):
body of a man. And that led me on a
journey to looking at things like quantum physics and the
connection between mind and matter and basically the nature of
consciousness to try to understand it. And that's what my
book was about.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Good for you now to the very few people who
may not know what the shroud is Andrew, please explain
to them what it might be.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
Indeed, it's a fourteen foot long piece of cloth that's
called the Shroud of Turin because the recent history it's
been that's where it's been. It's been in Turin, although
its history can be traced back via France and probably
before that to Turkey, and before that well to Jerusalem.
(04:09):
And it has on it some bloodstains which have been
looked at by forensic pathologists who have concluded that the
shroud once wrapped the recently deceased body of a man
who had been the victim of Roman crucifixion. From the
bloodstains we can see that this is what has happened
(04:31):
to him. He'd also been whipped. He had had and
the nails had not been through the hands as one
often sees in art, and particularly in medieval art. It
wasn't through the hands. It was actually through the wrists,
which fits anatomically with what we now know, but wouldn't
have people wouldn't have known about that hundreds of years ago.
(04:55):
And as well as the bloodstains, it also contains the
image of a man, which for over a thousand years
appeared to be very faint CPR yellow image of the
shape of a man, until in the towards the end
of the nineteenth century, after photography was first used. Then
(05:20):
it was found that when somebody took a photograph of it,
they looked at the photographic negative and they saw that
the negative of the shroud image actually looks like a positive.
So there are although it's not a photographic negative, it
does have properties in some way similar to a photographic negative.
(05:41):
The image on the shroud and when the sturb team
looked at it, one of the researchers, Dr John Jackson,
who still is. A researcher on the shroud made a
fascinating discovery. This was actually even before sturb went. I
believe that when you look at the image on the shroud,
(06:03):
it appears to have something called distance coded information. So
if you take an ordinary photograph and you can look
at the brightness of the image, and you put it
through a machine called an image intensifier, which was used
to interpret X rays, the photograph will have a random
(06:24):
set of peaks and troughs, because a normal photograph doesn't
capture the distance that the body or the person was
from the camera. But when you do it to the shroud,
it comes out in relief, which suggested, and I think
he was right to Dr Jackson, that the image may
(06:45):
have been formed by as I say, it's short intense
burst of raging tenergy that came from the shroud. Now,
many of the listeners may have heard about the carbon
dating that was done in the late nineteen eighties, because
that was widely publicized as showing that it had the
(07:06):
shroud had a medieval origin. But now when you look
at the statistics of the actual raw data, it shows
and this was in a peer reviewed journal article by
someone called Rianni, who looked into this in more depth.
The age apparent age of the cloth varies according to
(07:30):
how close it is to the edge of the cloth,
and some great researchers by the name of Sue Benford
and Joseph Marino actually found that there was a difference
between the tiny air of the shroud that was carbon
dated and the rest of the shroud, that the part
(07:51):
that was dated was not representative of the rest of
the cloth. And they found convincing evidence that the the
part that was dated was actually subject to a much
later repair because of the corners were where it was
most damaged by frequent handling and people taking bits off
it to give away as so called relics and so on.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
And the material was probably from the medieval times, then,
wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
The material was actually more even more recent than that
the material I think they found it was probably sixteenth century.
And it's the combination of this much later material together
with the much older original cloth that gives the skewed
(08:39):
the skewed dating. Now, they put this research to someone
who had worked closely with the with the sturb team
who was working at Los Alamos Laboratories, Raymond Rodgers and
he at the time of the step research, he'd originally
(09:03):
seen that Okay, there's no way anyone could possibly synthesize
the manufacture this image, so it must be it must
be genuine. But when the carbon dating came out, because
he was a man of science and wants to follow
the evidence, he thought, well, maybe I was wrong, maybe
it is medieval. But Benford and Marino reached out to him,
and he says was in the early two thousands. He said,
(09:26):
I've got them material to prove these At the time,
he called them fringe researchers to prove them wrong, because
I've got I can access some material from the area
that was carbon dated, as well as some material from
elsewhere on the shroud, and as a chemist who had
been working at Los Alamos, he did some tests, chemical tests,
(09:49):
and he went on the record publicly and saying I
set out to prove them wrong. I've proved them right.
And he published his data in a peer reviewed scientific
journal showing that actually Benford and Marino were right. It
does look like the part that was carbon dated was
subject to a much later repair with much more recent
(10:11):
material and doesn't represent the rest of the cloth, and
even one of the actual people on the carbon dating team,
who was at the time was a scientist with the
Oxford team and since then became actually the leader of
the Oxford Radio Carbon Lab. He went on the record
in a later documentary, also by David Roff, saying that
(10:35):
that the shroud has so much evidence pointing to a
much earlier date than the carbon dating showed. That despite
what the carbon dating showed, he feels that more research
should be done to try to understand the origins of
what he called this intriguing cloth.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
And I know you're going to want some them after
hearing this. This is an amazing story.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
We've got Stephen and Malachi Gregory in Nelson, New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
I understand that Malachi, who's eight almost nine years old now,
was suffering with not just one or two warts, but
I mean a significant outbreak of warts all over his body,
so significant it impacted his ability to really function.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (11:14):
Yeah, he was having trouble even holding a pencil to right.
Was Tie's book. Actually that got me thinking about it.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
I'm not surprised.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
It is an amazing immuno modulator, and so I can
see that it would work. And so at what point
did you see that there was actually improvement. It's really
going to work.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
Well, we really started to notice it around twelve weeks.
You can see these things actually getting smaller and smaller
and then going down to with just little red monks.
The whole things are gone and we're talking about what's
you know one the size of the wanner. I thought,
no way, that's gonna Wow. That's just been miraculous to
see him get into a pair of shoes.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yes, how wonderful.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
It's great to see him so happy.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
And yeah, absolutely wonderful.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Friends that have seen it, that is blown away.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Ty, this is awesome.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, this is awesome.
Speaker 6 (12:01):
Another amazing story. Why we're talking about Carnivora. Call them
to awaken your immune system and protect yourself now called
one eight sixty six eight three six eighty seven thirty five.
That's one eight six six eight three six eighty seven
thirty five, or visit carnivora dot com c A R
N I v O r A carnivora dot com.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
At what point, Andrew, did they begin to say that
the cloth was the image of Jesus.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Yes, that's a that's a very good point. Well, it
is the the image of a man who forensically, we
can tell he's been crucified. Not only has he been
been crucified, but there are bloodstains from sharp objects that
were placed upon upon his his head, that there was
(12:51):
bleeding from the scalp, and also a wound, a wound
in the site. Now from the the interesting thing is
that we can tell from the pollen data that has
been found on the shroud that it was exposed to
the elements around March or April in the environs of Jerusalem. Now,
(13:19):
the interesting thing is that this was a victim of
Roman crucifixion. So we have to consider that this was
this person who had been killed by the Romans, was
there during the Roman occupation, and we can be more
specific than that.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
And Christ was killed by the Romans, right, yes.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
We could, and we could be more specific about the timing.
Not only do we know it was in March or April,
but for most of the time when the Romans were
killing people, were executing them, they just left the bodies
out to the elements and to the wild ane and
so on, and to rot and so on. But there
(14:05):
was a certain historical period between Common Era ID whatever
we call it, six and sixty six when the Romans
made a compromise with the sort of religious leaders of
the Jews at the time in Judea, which was where
(14:26):
Jerusalem was, that they would at least they weren't going
They didn't agree to stop crucifying people, but they did
agree that they would allow traditional Jewish burial, and the
Jewish burial means a quick burial that when someone is dead,
they have to be removed from the cross and very quickly,
(14:47):
and from the fact that there aren't signs of decay,
putrefaction and so on the shroud, and then there aren't
sort of bits missing from his flesh, so to speak,
he hasn't been just left out there to putrefy and
for the animals. This is a man who was buried
soon after the crucifixion. So it's a victim, a Jewish
(15:13):
victim of Roman crucifixion, who had been crucified between the
years of six and sixty six, sometime in March or
April around Jerusalem, and who uniquely had been tortured with
a cap of sharp objects on his head and had
also been been lanced in the side of his body
(15:36):
as well. So it does you know, there is a
lot of evidence one can never say conclusively that this
is the historical Jesus of Nazareth, but there is a
huge amount of evidence suggesting that it is.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
At what point did the story come out that it
could be Jesus? How far back.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Well, I mean, it's the historian and Ian Wilson has
has looked into this, and there is some suggestion that
that the that the shroud may have that during the
time when when Jesus was alive, there was someone in
(16:18):
it does in what is now Turkey, a king Abgar
who was unwell and had heard about Jesus' capacity to
to heal people, and had had sent a message via
a messenger. Of course, no emails in those things.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
No text messages.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
That's right to say, you know, would Jesus come and
come and visit him and and and heal him? And
apparently a message came back that that he would get
to him in some way. And it's said that according
(17:01):
to the historians research that that when after jesus death,
the shroud itself was was taken to to him, and
that there are is from from the sort of contemporaneous times,
then there are reports of an image of of a
(17:26):
human being that wasn't made by human hands, so to speak.
That people didn't understand how it how it got there.
And and so that does again tie tie the cloth
to the historical Jesus Natareth.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
So Jesus never was able to get to this Turkish
leader in time. Yes, he got crucified before he was
able to get there, right.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yes, if and if if that had been his plan
to get there, but he so he didn't go there
in person, but his his followers, So the evidence goes
may have taken the shroud there instead.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Did the shroud heal the leader?
Speaker 3 (18:14):
I think that's what the report says.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yes, that's amazing. Was there blood andrew on the shroud?
And if so, have they ever tried the DNA it?
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Now? You see the thing is the there is blood
on the shroud, and it has been tested by the
scientists who are part of the STIRP team, and it
it does bear the hallmarks that are consistent with it
being human blood. And the and interestingly, the one can
(18:49):
see that blood consists of cells. And also when the
blood clots, there's a clear fluid called serum slightly that
that goes on the edge of the clots, and one
can actually see that there's a fluorescence of the serum
un darted violet light, which is what would be expected,
and the blood actually is think from the image. The blood,
(19:12):
as one would expect, goes right through the fibers and
penetrates the cloth, whereas the image is one thousandth of
one five thousandth of a millimeter in thickness, far less
than a human hair. But one has to remember that
(19:36):
the shroud has been handled by so many people over
the centuries, the DNA firstly wouldn't remain intact, and also
there's so many people's DNA on this cloth that it
would be be very difficult to know which one was
from the man of the shroud.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
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