January 14, 2026 • 18 mins
George Noory and witch Phoenix LeFae explore her work as a good witch casting spells, if positive spells work better than negative spells, and some of the biggest misconceptions about witchcraft such as its connection to devil worship.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And welcome back my friends to coast to coast George,
noriy with you, Phoenix Lefe back with us. Her latest
book is called Spirit Magic. She's a modern witch and
root worker. Phoenix Lafey started in the path of witchcraft
back in nineteen ninety three. She has been trained in
several witchcraft traditions, always looking to learn more, of course,
and expand her knowledge. Phoenix has been initiated into the
(00:27):
Reclaiming tradition of witchcraft, the Avalon Druid Order and WICCA. Phoenix,
welcome back. How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm good, George, how are you good?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm looking forward to this. So what happened in nineteen
ninety three to get you into witchcraft?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
In nineteen ninety three, I went through a sort of
crisis of faith or life or how you are, however
you might look at it. I had excruciating teen angst,
I suppose you could say. And I started to learn
about different religions because I wasn't raised with any specific religion.
So I felt like if I had some sort of
(01:04):
guiding force, maybe what I was experiencing wouldn't be so challenging,
and there'd be like a light that could guide me.
And I found a book about witchcraft in a bookstore,
and it talked about a goddess and worshiping the earth
and being connected and all of these things that made
perfect sense to me. And that was it. I was
hooked and I dove head first and I haven't looked back.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
What did your parents say about that? Are your relatives?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yeah, my parents were kind of okay with it. I mean,
I live in a pretty progressive little bubble in northern California,
so they were cautious. The only time my mom got
concerned was when I started reading tarot cards. That kind
of freaked her out a little bit. But overall, I
think they realized that I'm a pretty level headed and
(01:51):
good person, and I want to help other people, and
so they figured if there was something that was calling
to my spirit, that it probably was something beneficial that
was going to be used to help other people.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I think Hansel and Gretel and the Wizard of Oz
scared the living daylights out of people about witches, don't you.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yes, I agree. Funnily enough, Hansel and Gretel the story
of the witch in the Woods is actually based on
salt Slavic folklore about a goddess named Baba Yaga. So yeah,
it is scary there there. You never know when there's
a bony witch hate hiding in the woods that might
want to eat you.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I mean, I'll always remember that scene in The Wizard
of Oz where she goes, I'm going to get you
by pretty that's right, that's cackle. Do you do you
have a cackle?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
I'm not very good at it.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Oh, give it a try. How's that not bad? And
you don't have a broom, right?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Actually, I have a room above my front door that
I use. Really, yeah, I use it as like a
protection charm. It sweeps out trouble.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Why does so many people think witchcraft is evil? Because
it really isn't.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah, it really isn't. I think that witchcraft has just
been given a bad rap. I mean, we could go
into the you know, you could get my feminist rage
fuming here if we go too deep into it. But
I think, you know, it's it's not the status quo,
it's not what's expected. It's it is about empowerment, and
(03:27):
it goes against the grain of our of our society
and so that's that's kind of scary. People don't necessarily
like things to rock the boat. But also, you know
our pop culture and folklore and mythology and stories, witches
are always the characters that are mischievous or harmful or
(03:50):
causing chaos and the story and so, you know, those
things stuck and culturally we still have those things come
up when we hear the word witch.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Is there a difference between witchcraft and wicca?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
You know, once upon a time I would have said no,
but that has changed and now there is definitely a
difference between witchcraft and wicca. You know, back in the
fifties in England, the laws about being a witch, the
anti witchcraft laws, were repealed, and then all of a sudden,
(04:27):
all these people came out of the woodwork saying that
they were witches and had practiced witchcraft. And one of
those people was Gerald Gardner, and he wrote a book
about witchcraft and he became quite famous. And now there's
this lineage of witchcraft called Gardenerian wicca based off of
Gerald Gardner's books, and it had a huge influence on
(04:50):
witchcraft and wicca, and you can see threads of it
in modern practices everywhere. But there's also all these other
flavors that are connected more to earth work, ship or
folklore or folk magic that aren't necessarily in alignment with
WICCA and this very specific lineage of practice. So they're
different things. I think they're related, and for me, they're related,
(05:14):
but each practitioner is a little bit different, so they
have their own flavors, they're different tracks.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Is a male witch a warlock? Is that accurate?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yes and no. So once upon a time the word
warlock actually meant like oath breaker, someone who went against
his coven, But modern male witches will often use the
term warlock, and just as many modern male witches will
just call themselves a witch. So either way, I think
(05:46):
it's okay.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
You remember the TV show Bewitched with Elizabeth Montgomery. Absolutely
that was a classic. And the way she used to
wiggler knows. I know.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
I've tried to do that all the time, all the time.
It still isn't working for me.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
She was a good witch, but her mother, who played
the party Agnus Morehead, Yeah, she was kind of evil
in that show.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah, but she was like the catalyst, right, she didn't
suffer fools, She wasn't going to put up with any shenanigans,
and I appreciate that. I like that kind of lady.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Do you cast spells on people?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I don't cast spells on people, but I do cast spells.
I think that's a distinction. I work magic to help
improve my life, and if someone asks for my assistance,
I will cast spells or do magic to help them
improve their lives. But I'm not necessarily doing magic to
(06:45):
cause chaos. I'm not andorra causing chaos in anyone else's life.
There's enough negative energy out in the world that I
don't feel like I need to add to it. But
I could. And you know, I've been practicing witshcraft a
long time, and when I was a teenager, I wasn't
ascerning as I am now. So you know, I did
some maybe reckless things when I was a lot younger,
(07:06):
but I've grown out of that. I think that's for
the best.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I mean, could you actually cast a spell to do
somebody get into a car accident or something like that.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
It's not that cut and dry, right, So there's definitely
a way to work magic to have chaos brought into
someone's life. You might call that like a curse. You
could work negative energy that is impacting someone else's life,
and that could absolutely cause a car accident. But if
you're going to do a spell to say I want
(07:38):
this person to be in a car accident, the chances
of that happening are pretty slim. But you can send bainful,
negative magic their way, and then often people will experience
like a series of misfortune when something like happens. They
might get ill, they might have money issues, their car
mic break down, they might get in a car accident.
(07:59):
It can manifests in a lot of different ways, but
it's not always so cut and dry, like I want
this to happen. You have to leave a little bit
of space. We don't necessarily have that much control when
we work spells.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Does a positive spell seem to work better than a
negative spell?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
You know, all spells take energy, and so when you
are putting your energy into something positive, you're going to
feel the reverb of that working. It's going to help
you feel more positive, it's going to help you see
more good in the world. But if you're so focused
on the negative and you're doing harmful or baneful magic,
(08:40):
you're going to feel the reverb of that too, And
so it is I don't recommend people do cursing or
baneful magic because it does cause not just chaos in
the life of someone you may be trying to harm,
but it's also going to cause chaos in your life.
And it's really it's not worth it. It's really not
worth it. And you know, you want to bring more
(09:02):
good into the world and not more negativity. There's plenty
of that that exists that we don't need to get
involved with.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
That is so true. I mean, the world events that
are going on now, we need good spells to make
some of those things go away.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Do we need to go to a witch to have
a spell done or can we do it on our own?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
That's a great question. You know what's interesting about that
is anyone can work a spell. Anyone can work a spell.
And it's kind of like if you've never made a
cake before, you can totally follow a recipe and put
it in the oven at the right temperature and make
sure you know you follow the recipe to a tea,
you're probably going to have a pretty successful cake. But
(09:43):
if you've never done it before and you're not certain
and you don't trust your ability, and you doubt whether
you have the right sugar, and do you think maybe
I should use a half a cup instead of a cup,
then you're going to run into trouble. So anyone can
work a spell, but it does practice and it takes focus,
(10:03):
and some of us are more gifted at that than others.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Can I call you a good witch?
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I think I'm neutral?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
What you call it with Phoenix Lay who website is
linked up at coast tocoastdamn dot com and or new
book which we'll talk about this hour is called spirit magic,
which just came out. Yes, what about prayer? Would you
call it prayer a spell?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I do? Personally, I do consider prayer spell. I know
for other magical practitioners and for some witches, that word
is very charged because it is something that's used in
you know, Christianity and more mainstream religious practice, and a
lot of people leave mainstream religion like Christianity and seek
(10:48):
out witchcraft, and they don't want to return to some
of those practices that they've left behind. But most spells
really are a form of prayer work, and prayer works
like that's been side and typically proven that prayer works
to help people heal, to help people bring more calm,
into people's lives to help people recover from surgeries, like
it really does work. So you know, I think there's
(11:11):
room for prayer in anyone's practice, whether they're atheist or
a witch or a Christian. I think it just helps
us connect and remember that there's something bigger than ourselves
out there in the world.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Why does so many people believe that witchcraft is associated
with the devil?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
The devil? Well, so, oh, you're getting me on my
folklore nerd road here. So back in the day before
Christianity was the main religion of Europe, there were multiple
deities that Pagans worshiped that were spirits of the forest.
(11:48):
And often these deities had like horns because they were
spirits of the forest. And so as Christianity sort of
became more popular and started to spread throughout Europe, one
of the things that the missionaries would do is to
convert people. And they would say, oh, no, but what
you're practicing is wrong, or what you're practicing is evil,
(12:09):
and I can prove that to you because your God
of the forest looks just like the devil, and the
devil's evil, so therefore what you're doing is evil. And
so it was sort of used as this tool of conversion,
of changing people's belief systems from something more pagan and
earth based into something Christianity and Christian based. And that's
(12:31):
really stuck this idea of the horned God being connected
to the devil. But you know, in mythology, all religions
have mythology, and Christian mythology is just one of those
many flavors of mythology. The devil's a Christian story, it's
not really a story outside of Christianity. Will in Judaism
like sort of you know those the big three of
(12:52):
them of Jehovah. Right, So there isn't really a devil
in witchcraft, but there are gods that look a little devilish.
Let's say put it that way.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
In witchcraft, do they believe in the God?
Speaker 3 (13:10):
You know, if you asked for which is that question,
you'd get like twelve different answers, some which is believe
in a goddess like a main creatrix force in the universe,
some which is believe in no gods at all, that
it's nature and nature is the being the entity which
(13:34):
is are polytheists meaning that they believe that there's lots
of gods. There's multiple gods and we can choose to
work with or devote ourselves to any number of them.
So it kind of depends on the witch that you
talk to. Me. I'm a polytheist, so I believe that
there's lots of gods and I find them all fascinating
(13:55):
and interesting and I want to know all their stories
and I want to hear all about all of them
and where they came from.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
In the past, there were some people like Anton Leabay
who were devil worshipers. Yeah, do we still have that
going on today?
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Absolutely? Yeah, absolutely there. The Church of Satan is a
huge organization and they're actually doing really good work in
the world, which is fascinating. Yeah, it's really interesting if
you if you google the Church of Satan and see
some of the things that those guys are up to.
They're doing some really interesting things to save free speech
and pay for school lunches and all kinds of interesting
(14:31):
things across the United States especially. But yeah, there's still
definitely people out there, and you know, and I've run
into a few folks who are are sort of in
that world. And what I'll say, what I've experienced of
folks who are believed themselves to be Satanists or part
of the Church of Satan is that what they really
believe in is their own free will and that there
(14:53):
is no God above their own will. And so it's
just a different way of looking at the world. It's
more about the serving the self rather than serving like
a god.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
What would you say, Phoenix is the biggest miss conception
about witchcraft?
Speaker 3 (15:13):
You know, I think the biggest misconception is that there's
a that it's evil, that there's you know, these people
are malicious or want to cause harm or sacrificing animals,
things like that. That really isn't the energy of witchcraft.
It really isn't the energy of modern witchcraft. You know,
for the most of the witches I know, and you know,
(15:34):
there's there's always an an outlier out there in any group,
but for the most part, which is want to have
a better world. We want to save the planet, we
want to take care of nature, we want to take
care of other humans. We want to have equality, and
we want fairness, you know, so all of these things
that are really good, And I think that's that's a
(15:55):
big misconception, is that there's this evil energy behind witchcraft.
It's really not. It's really about love and connection and
remembering that at the end of the day, we are
of the earth. Someday we will die and go return
to the earth, and it's honoring that cycle and remembering
we're a part of it.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
We have had some good witches on the program in
the past. Are had Evelyn Paglini who passed away. I've
had horn On. Yes, there are a lot of good
witches out there.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Both those women were and are amazing witches.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Is there a school for witchcraft where you could go
and attend?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I wish, you know, I always when I was first
getting involved with witchcraft. I this was back when you
looked for a job in the newspaper, which is not
something that exists anymore. But I always wish I could
open up a newspaper and be like hiring witch and priestess.
And I never really found that job in any newspaper
that I looked in. There's not really one organization or
(17:01):
one body of that trains witches or teaches witchcraft, but
there's a lot of small groups like covens and smaller
local communities that help train witches because it is a
lot of grassroots vibes in the witchcraft world. You know,
you're more likely to find someone who wants to teach
(17:23):
or train you on a one on one basis rather
than someone who wants to, you know, open a school
like Hogwarts. You know it is it is very much
about the one on one connection. Because witchcraft is so personal,
and it is so driven by your own beliefs and
your own way of looking at the world and your
own personal spiritual growth, that it really is best to
(17:46):
have a small group or just a few mentors to
help you sort of find your way along the path.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
What advice would you give to a child who says
I want to be a witch.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
I'd say, sweet, let's go make a potion.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Let's let's go put a spell on somebody.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Yeah, exactly who made you mad at school today? No,
I'm just kidding, you know. I think if there's a
smaller person, a child, who wants to get involved in witchcraft,
and I think the first place to go is to
somewhere in nature and to talk to the trees and
to listen to the birds, and to touch running water
(18:26):
like that's witchcraft.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Listen to more Coast to Coast am every weeknight at
one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam
dot com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And welcome back my friends to coast to coast George,
noriy with you, Phoenix Lefe back with us. Her latest
book is called Spirit Magic. She's a modern witch and
root worker. Phoenix Lafey started in the path of witchcraft
back in nineteen ninety three. She has been trained in
several witchcraft traditions, always looking to learn more, of course,
and expand her knowledge. Phoenix has been initiated into the
(00:27):
Reclaiming tradition of witchcraft, the Avalon Druid Order and WICCA. Phoenix,
welcome back. How are you?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm good, George, how are you good?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm looking forward to this. So what happened in nineteen
ninety three to get you into witchcraft?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
In nineteen ninety three, I went through a sort of
crisis of faith or life or how you are, however
you might look at it. I had excruciating teen angst,
I suppose you could say. And I started to learn
about different religions because I wasn't raised with any specific religion.
So I felt like if I had some sort of
(01:04):
guiding force, maybe what I was experiencing wouldn't be so challenging,
and there'd be like a light that could guide me.
And I found a book about witchcraft in a bookstore,
and it talked about a goddess and worshiping the earth
and being connected and all of these things that made
perfect sense to me. And that was it. I was
hooked and I dove head first and I haven't looked back.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
What did your parents say about that? Are your relatives?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yeah, my parents were kind of okay with it. I mean,
I live in a pretty progressive little bubble in northern California,
so they were cautious. The only time my mom got
concerned was when I started reading tarot cards. That kind
of freaked her out a little bit. But overall, I
think they realized that I'm a pretty level headed and
(01:51):
good person, and I want to help other people, and
so they figured if there was something that was calling
to my spirit, that it probably was something beneficial that
was going to be used to help other people.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I think Hansel and Gretel and the Wizard of Oz
scared the living daylights out of people about witches, don't you.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Yes, I agree. Funnily enough, Hansel and Gretel the story
of the witch in the Woods is actually based on
salt Slavic folklore about a goddess named Baba Yaga. So yeah,
it is scary there there. You never know when there's
a bony witch hate hiding in the woods that might
want to eat you.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I mean, I'll always remember that scene in The Wizard
of Oz where she goes, I'm going to get you
by pretty that's right, that's cackle. Do you do you
have a cackle?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
I'm not very good at it.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Oh, give it a try. How's that not bad? And
you don't have a broom, right?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Actually, I have a room above my front door that
I use. Really, yeah, I use it as like a
protection charm. It sweeps out trouble.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Why does so many people think witchcraft is evil? Because
it really isn't.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah, it really isn't. I think that witchcraft has just
been given a bad rap. I mean, we could go
into the you know, you could get my feminist rage
fuming here if we go too deep into it. But
I think, you know, it's it's not the status quo,
it's not what's expected. It's it is about empowerment, and
(03:27):
it goes against the grain of our of our society
and so that's that's kind of scary. People don't necessarily
like things to rock the boat. But also, you know
our pop culture and folklore and mythology and stories, witches
are always the characters that are mischievous or harmful or
(03:50):
causing chaos and the story and so, you know, those
things stuck and culturally we still have those things come
up when we hear the word witch.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Is there a difference between witchcraft and wicca?
Speaker 3 (04:04):
You know, once upon a time I would have said no,
but that has changed and now there is definitely a
difference between witchcraft and wicca. You know, back in the
fifties in England, the laws about being a witch, the
anti witchcraft laws, were repealed, and then all of a sudden,
(04:27):
all these people came out of the woodwork saying that
they were witches and had practiced witchcraft. And one of
those people was Gerald Gardner, and he wrote a book
about witchcraft and he became quite famous. And now there's
this lineage of witchcraft called Gardenerian wicca based off of
Gerald Gardner's books, and it had a huge influence on
(04:50):
witchcraft and wicca, and you can see threads of it
in modern practices everywhere. But there's also all these other
flavors that are connected more to earth work, ship or
folklore or folk magic that aren't necessarily in alignment with
WICCA and this very specific lineage of practice. So they're
different things. I think they're related, and for me, they're related,
(05:14):
but each practitioner is a little bit different, so they
have their own flavors, they're different tracks.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Is a male witch a warlock? Is that accurate?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Yes and no. So once upon a time the word
warlock actually meant like oath breaker, someone who went against
his coven, But modern male witches will often use the
term warlock, and just as many modern male witches will
just call themselves a witch. So either way, I think
(05:46):
it's okay.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
You remember the TV show Bewitched with Elizabeth Montgomery. Absolutely
that was a classic. And the way she used to
wiggler knows. I know.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
I've tried to do that all the time, all the time.
It still isn't working for me.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
She was a good witch, but her mother, who played
the party Agnus Morehead, Yeah, she was kind of evil
in that show.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah, but she was like the catalyst, right, she didn't
suffer fools, She wasn't going to put up with any shenanigans,
and I appreciate that. I like that kind of lady.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Do you cast spells on people?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
I don't cast spells on people, but I do cast spells.
I think that's a distinction. I work magic to help
improve my life, and if someone asks for my assistance,
I will cast spells or do magic to help them
improve their lives. But I'm not necessarily doing magic to
(06:45):
cause chaos. I'm not andorra causing chaos in anyone else's life.
There's enough negative energy out in the world that I
don't feel like I need to add to it. But
I could. And you know, I've been practicing witshcraft a
long time, and when I was a teenager, I wasn't
ascerning as I am now. So you know, I did
some maybe reckless things when I was a lot younger,
(07:06):
but I've grown out of that. I think that's for
the best.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I mean, could you actually cast a spell to do
somebody get into a car accident or something like that.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
It's not that cut and dry, right, So there's definitely
a way to work magic to have chaos brought into
someone's life. You might call that like a curse. You
could work negative energy that is impacting someone else's life,
and that could absolutely cause a car accident. But if
you're going to do a spell to say I want
(07:38):
this person to be in a car accident, the chances
of that happening are pretty slim. But you can send bainful,
negative magic their way, and then often people will experience
like a series of misfortune when something like happens. They
might get ill, they might have money issues, their car
mic break down, they might get in a car accident.
(07:59):
It can manifests in a lot of different ways, but
it's not always so cut and dry, like I want
this to happen. You have to leave a little bit
of space. We don't necessarily have that much control when
we work spells.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Does a positive spell seem to work better than a
negative spell?
Speaker 3 (08:18):
You know, all spells take energy, and so when you
are putting your energy into something positive, you're going to
feel the reverb of that working. It's going to help
you feel more positive, it's going to help you see
more good in the world. But if you're so focused
on the negative and you're doing harmful or baneful magic,
(08:40):
you're going to feel the reverb of that too, And
so it is I don't recommend people do cursing or
baneful magic because it does cause not just chaos in
the life of someone you may be trying to harm,
but it's also going to cause chaos in your life.
And it's really it's not worth it. It's really not
worth it. And you know, you want to bring more
(09:02):
good into the world and not more negativity. There's plenty
of that that exists that we don't need to get
involved with.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
That is so true. I mean, the world events that
are going on now, we need good spells to make
some of those things go away.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Do we need to go to a witch to have
a spell done or can we do it on our own?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
That's a great question. You know what's interesting about that
is anyone can work a spell. Anyone can work a spell.
And it's kind of like if you've never made a
cake before, you can totally follow a recipe and put
it in the oven at the right temperature and make
sure you know you follow the recipe to a tea,
you're probably going to have a pretty successful cake. But
(09:43):
if you've never done it before and you're not certain
and you don't trust your ability, and you doubt whether
you have the right sugar, and do you think maybe
I should use a half a cup instead of a cup,
then you're going to run into trouble. So anyone can
work a spell, but it does practice and it takes focus,
(10:03):
and some of us are more gifted at that than others.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Can I call you a good witch?
Speaker 3 (10:09):
I think I'm neutral?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
What you call it with Phoenix Lay who website is
linked up at coast tocoastdamn dot com and or new
book which we'll talk about this hour is called spirit magic,
which just came out. Yes, what about prayer? Would you
call it prayer a spell?
Speaker 3 (10:27):
I do? Personally, I do consider prayer spell. I know
for other magical practitioners and for some witches, that word
is very charged because it is something that's used in
you know, Christianity and more mainstream religious practice, and a
lot of people leave mainstream religion like Christianity and seek
(10:48):
out witchcraft, and they don't want to return to some
of those practices that they've left behind. But most spells
really are a form of prayer work, and prayer works
like that's been side and typically proven that prayer works
to help people heal, to help people bring more calm,
into people's lives to help people recover from surgeries, like
it really does work. So you know, I think there's
(11:11):
room for prayer in anyone's practice, whether they're atheist or
a witch or a Christian. I think it just helps
us connect and remember that there's something bigger than ourselves
out there in the world.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Why does so many people believe that witchcraft is associated
with the devil?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
The devil? Well, so, oh, you're getting me on my
folklore nerd road here. So back in the day before
Christianity was the main religion of Europe, there were multiple
deities that Pagans worshiped that were spirits of the forest.
(11:48):
And often these deities had like horns because they were
spirits of the forest. And so as Christianity sort of
became more popular and started to spread throughout Europe, one
of the things that the missionaries would do is to
convert people. And they would say, oh, no, but what
you're practicing is wrong, or what you're practicing is evil,
(12:09):
and I can prove that to you because your God
of the forest looks just like the devil, and the
devil's evil, so therefore what you're doing is evil. And
so it was sort of used as this tool of conversion,
of changing people's belief systems from something more pagan and
earth based into something Christianity and Christian based. And that's
(12:31):
really stuck this idea of the horned God being connected
to the devil. But you know, in mythology, all religions
have mythology, and Christian mythology is just one of those
many flavors of mythology. The devil's a Christian story, it's
not really a story outside of Christianity. Will in Judaism
like sort of you know those the big three of
(12:52):
them of Jehovah. Right, So there isn't really a devil
in witchcraft, but there are gods that look a little devilish.
Let's say put it that way.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
In witchcraft, do they believe in the God?
Speaker 3 (13:10):
You know, if you asked for which is that question,
you'd get like twelve different answers, some which is believe
in a goddess like a main creatrix force in the universe,
some which is believe in no gods at all, that
it's nature and nature is the being the entity which
(13:34):
is are polytheists meaning that they believe that there's lots
of gods. There's multiple gods and we can choose to
work with or devote ourselves to any number of them.
So it kind of depends on the witch that you
talk to. Me. I'm a polytheist, so I believe that
there's lots of gods and I find them all fascinating
(13:55):
and interesting and I want to know all their stories
and I want to hear all about all of them
and where they came from.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
In the past, there were some people like Anton Leabay
who were devil worshipers. Yeah, do we still have that
going on today?
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Absolutely? Yeah, absolutely there. The Church of Satan is a
huge organization and they're actually doing really good work in
the world, which is fascinating. Yeah, it's really interesting if
you if you google the Church of Satan and see
some of the things that those guys are up to.
They're doing some really interesting things to save free speech
and pay for school lunches and all kinds of interesting
(14:31):
things across the United States especially. But yeah, there's still
definitely people out there, and you know, and I've run
into a few folks who are are sort of in
that world. And what I'll say, what I've experienced of
folks who are believed themselves to be Satanists or part
of the Church of Satan is that what they really
believe in is their own free will and that there
(14:53):
is no God above their own will. And so it's
just a different way of looking at the world. It's
more about the serving the self rather than serving like
a god.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
What would you say, Phoenix is the biggest miss conception
about witchcraft?
Speaker 3 (15:13):
You know, I think the biggest misconception is that there's
a that it's evil, that there's you know, these people
are malicious or want to cause harm or sacrificing animals,
things like that. That really isn't the energy of witchcraft.
It really isn't the energy of modern witchcraft. You know,
for the most of the witches I know, and you know,
(15:34):
there's there's always an an outlier out there in any group,
but for the most part, which is want to have
a better world. We want to save the planet, we
want to take care of nature, we want to take
care of other humans. We want to have equality, and
we want fairness, you know, so all of these things
that are really good, And I think that's that's a
(15:55):
big misconception, is that there's this evil energy behind witchcraft.
It's really not. It's really about love and connection and
remembering that at the end of the day, we are
of the earth. Someday we will die and go return
to the earth, and it's honoring that cycle and remembering
we're a part of it.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
We have had some good witches on the program in
the past. Are had Evelyn Paglini who passed away. I've
had horn On. Yes, there are a lot of good
witches out there.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Both those women were and are amazing witches.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Is there a school for witchcraft where you could go
and attend?
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I wish, you know, I always when I was first
getting involved with witchcraft. I this was back when you
looked for a job in the newspaper, which is not
something that exists anymore. But I always wish I could
open up a newspaper and be like hiring witch and priestess.
And I never really found that job in any newspaper
that I looked in. There's not really one organization or
(17:01):
one body of that trains witches or teaches witchcraft, but
there's a lot of small groups like covens and smaller
local communities that help train witches because it is a
lot of grassroots vibes in the witchcraft world. You know,
you're more likely to find someone who wants to teach
(17:23):
or train you on a one on one basis rather
than someone who wants to, you know, open a school
like Hogwarts. You know it is it is very much
about the one on one connection. Because witchcraft is so personal,
and it is so driven by your own beliefs and
your own way of looking at the world and your
own personal spiritual growth, that it really is best to
(17:46):
have a small group or just a few mentors to
help you sort of find your way along the path.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
What advice would you give to a child who says
I want to be a witch.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
I'd say, sweet, let's go make a potion.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Let's let's go put a spell on somebody.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Yeah, exactly who made you mad at school today? No,
I'm just kidding, you know. I think if there's a
smaller person, a child, who wants to get involved in witchcraft,
and I think the first place to go is to
somewhere in nature and to talk to the trees and
to listen to the birds, and to touch running water
(18:26):
like that's witchcraft.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Listen to more Coast to Coast am every weeknight at
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The Best of Coast to Coast AM News
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George Noory
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