February 13, 2025 • 38 mins
Pop some champs, because Jennie is joined by "Real Housewives of Orange County" star Fancy Pants Heather Dubrow for a candid conversation about giving unsolicited advice, why she's choosing hobbies that push her out of her comfort zone, and her secrets to a long-lasting marriage.
Should you go to bed angry? Heather explains what her husband, Terry Dubrow, thinks!
Check out Part 1 of this conversation on "Let's Talk with Heather Dubrow"!
Get your tickets for the live stream of the "I Choose Me" Live event!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hey, everybody, welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is
all about the choices we make and where they lead us.
My guest today is pretty much incredible, a reality TV icon,
an entrepreneur, an actress, a mother, a wife, a voice
of reason to so many, and an advocate for the
LGBTQ plus community, which is amazing. You know her from
(00:33):
multiple seasons of the Real Housewives of Orange County and
our podcast Let's Talk with Heather Dubro.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Here she is in front of me. Let's talk Heather Dubro.
I just did your podcast. Yes, it was amazing, loved
having you.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
If you guys didn't hear it, go over and check
it out on Let's Talk with Heather Deubra.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
But do you say DEBRAU to b This is why
they took me. When Terry and I got married, it
took me like fifteen years to change my name because
my name was Heather Page Can. It's a good name,
that's a great and it's not even a stage. That
was my name either. Page can't Ether Page Can and
I meet Terry and we get married, and it looks
the way it's spelled it looks like dubrow, like eyebrow,
(01:12):
and I hated that, so I said, down, my go,
if you change the spelling to like d u b
r e a u X like du bleau, I'm totally in.
Yeah he would know. So it took me like fifteen years.
Then I finally changed it.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Well, I like it dubro dubro yes, like hey bro, heybro. Yeah,
the spelling really does throw me every time.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
I lo, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
We were talking so much and we had such a
great conversation, so definitely check that out. But I realized
I came here thinking, oh, I'm so excited to meet her,
to get to know her. It's not the first time
that we've met, so embarrassing for me.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Correct it was a long time, but I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
You're not mad at me about it, and now you're like,
you'll just tell me and remind me.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
And now now I remember, Yes, we go way back, yeah,
way back, like almost twenty years. It's so good. It's
so good. And I did learn.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I feel much closer to you now because we never
sat down and had these kinds of definitely these amazing talks.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So I'm really.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Excited to be able to do that today with you
and getting to know you. I love the woman that
you are. You're You're inspirational, You're what you're doing with
your platform and as an entrepreneur things that you're doing.
You have your own fashion line. You've done amazing stuff
with your husband too, which I love. I've always wanted
(02:30):
to do work with my husband. He's in the restaurant world.
So it's not really Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So you don't have anything. Well, it's funny. I thought
I married a doctor. I didn't. Really, I married like
a TV star. It wasn't on my Bengo card, but
I created I'd say he's my Frankenstein, I say sometimes.
But you know his show Botch was really born out
of Housewives really well, I mean yeah, kind of because
he and Paul Nassif, who's ex wife was on Beverly
(02:58):
Hills Housewives, and we've known them since before they got
married a long time, so you know, that's really how
that was born. So what that platform has done for
us is you know huge.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, can I say something and you won't get mad
at me? No, I've never watched really anywhere, yeh, don't.
It's embarrassing to say at this point, because it's it's
a monster.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
It's everywhere, It's everywhere, and I have such.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Profound appreciation for it because I understand what it takes
and the women, so many of the women on it
are just bad ass, amazing women. But I've never watched
an episode.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, so I watched like the first season of Beverly
Hills because we knew Paul and Adrian, and I was like, oh, like,
you know, let's watch them. So we watched like the
first season, I think, and that was it. And then
when I joined Orange County, I had never seen Orange County.
I knew nothing about it. And so was that the
(03:55):
second iteration of it? It was the first Orange County
to the original it is. Yeah, this will be the
nineteenth season of Orange County Housewives. Wow is that crazy?
And I started the show when my youngest was nine
months old and he just turned fourteen. You are a
completely different person when you started, completely different. But I
was on it and then I left and then I
came back. Okay, why did you leave? I left because
(04:18):
it had just changed and my kids were at an
age where, you know, it's like sort of an awkward
stage and just the universe. I've become really good at
listening to the universe when they're telling me yes or no,
because when I haven't listened, it hasn't gone well. And
it was really time to go. So I left, and
I left for four seasons, but with the pandemic it
turned into five years. So when I went back to
(04:41):
the show, it was literally ten years from the date
I joined, which was, yes, a decade later, completely different person.
But I came back to the show because I really
thought I could use the platform to start conversations in
other people's families. Because we have four kids, there are
different genders, different sexualities, and all with things. And I
(05:01):
got so many messages from kids and parents, some really
wonderful and some so tragic of things that had happened
in their families. And I thought, Okay, if we just
put our incredibly normal family, people have something to model,
they have something to look at.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, you just did an interview, I think with today
dot com about the diversity within your own family and
what an impact that has had on so many by
you just talking about it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, and even just being there. So I had a
friend in high school that I was friendly with. We
weren't like great friends. We were friendly, and we've become
very good friends later in life. And this friend told
me that they, well, they're gay. And they told me
that they didn't understand being gay when we were in
(05:47):
high school because they didn't have any role models on
TV or in movies, nothing to look at. And they
told me that they had decided that by the time
they were a senior, if things had gotten better for them,
they were going to take their own lives. And I
never would have thought in a million years that this
(06:08):
incredibly confident person that I knew and now know would
have ever felt that way. But it's because they just
didn't have anything to say. This is who you are,
it's okay, it's okay. And so I thought, I don't
have to get on a soapbox. I don't have to
use my children as storylines. I don't have to tell
their stories for them. I don't have to do anything.
(06:28):
We just have to be be who you are, authentic. Yeah,
and that helps people, and it does. And I've been
able to do things on the show, like through an
event last year on the show for family equality and
presented at the GLAD Awards this year. We're doing something
with the Trevor Project and being able to do that
kind of thing and using the platform for that is amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, I've heard other women say that too, that it's
because of the platform that they were able to.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with using the platform for fame, fortune,
you know, whatever floats your boat, Like, that's totally fine.
But me coming back into this situation, that's what it's
been for me.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I think that's such a brave choice, but not so
much brave because it's just your family.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, And I just I feel like I've been given
these kids for a reason. We were talking before on
my podcast, like I didn't or maybe it was even
before we started recording, you know, I started late. I
didn't know we'd have four kids. And it's just interesting
what life gives you. And then you think, why.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Tell me about that though, Tell me about you were
an actress full time, that was your jam, you were
doing it, you were killing it, you'd been doing a
lot of work, and then you had a baby.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
So I yes. So my last show was a show
called That's Life. It was on CBS. I started the
show and it was like one of the shows you
and I were talking about, which is seventeen hours on set.
You're up at three thirty in the morning. There's no
social life. Xhausted. And I loved every second of it,
every second. And that show got canceled and I was
(08:08):
in pilot season and figuring it out. You know, We've
been trying to get pregnant. We had infertility and whatever,
and I was like, I need a break after going
to the fertility doctor and doing all the things. How
old are you thirty four? Okay, right? And so I
took a little break and then we were like, fuck it,
let's we're gonna do. We have to do IVF. That
(08:29):
was the next step that they told us, because we
had done all these you know, I UIs and all
these other things whatever. So I put it off and
then finally I go, let's do it. And of course
the day I schedule, you know, to have my embryos
and my eggs extracted, I think for the IVF, I
get a network test and I literally went to the
(08:49):
procedure in the morning, anesthesia not fun. Woke up from
the anesthesia, took a few hours at home, put on
my makeup, had a driver because I wasn't gonna drive,
and went to the network test, did not get the part.
I would like to tell you it's not a great ending.
But the great ending is I got pregnant. So yeah,
(09:11):
that took. And you know, it's funny because sometimes you
don't even know what to wish for, you know, like
you want the part, I want the baby, but you
were really keeping things open. You were like, yeah, see
what happens, let's roll the dice. And so I ended
up getting pregnant with twins. Oh yeah, And I got
pregnant with the twins, and we were living in LA
(09:32):
and you know, the rest is sort of history.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I love that you are very honest, You're a very
straight shooter, and you have good advice, Like I've already
had things that I'm going to go and check out
that we talked about. Well, what did we talked about earlier?
Not unpacking your suitcase right in a hotel room.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yes, well, you have to be careful of the upholstery
because of bed books. Yes, got to watch for the
bed books. That is just so gross, and but it's
it's so gross. But we had bedbugs. Want a small
is what happened? We were we had just moved into
this house and I had this beautiful headboard made by
a local upholsterer from my daughter who was three, and
(10:16):
it was this pink, beautiful upholstered headboard with diamonds in it.
It was so cute and it was a local person
and I just said, hey, I bought the fabrics. I
don't know. That room came together last for some reason,
and I guess he made it in his little ware. Anyway,
there were bed bugs because my little cute girl, with
(10:36):
her little chubby cheeks, she'd wake up in the morning
and have all these bites on her face. And I
was like, what is going on? And then of course
we're looking it up. I'm looking it up, and if
they're in a line, they say it's bed bugs. And
now I'm freaking out because if you look to see
how you have to get rid of bed bugs, you
might as well just burn everything and leave. It's just
it's a disaster. So I call this company that someone
(10:58):
told me to call, and there's a dog that they
have come to your house to sniff out the bed bugs. Okay,
So I'm like, all right, So I call the place
and they and I'm expecting like a doberman, like some
big gnarly bug seeking thing. I open the door and
(11:19):
it is I am not kidding a poodle. It is
a small poodle.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
That is.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
And the person with the lesion, I'm like, really, it's
a poodle. Poodles go all right? So they bring the
dog in the house, and the dog they bring him upstairs.
The dog is upstairs, immediately goes to the headboard, to
the headboard, starts stiffing around. They take the headboard out,
they take it out to their truck. They slice it
open and there's bedbugs. So now they take the dog
(11:45):
back up to the room and the dog doesn't find anything.
Because I'm like, do I take the mattress out? Do
I call the guy? What happened?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
No?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I just never used him again. I would think you
would have at least called him. And I think he
knows he has been bugs. How does he not know
he's infested with bed bugs? It was so gross, It
was so disgusting. But anyways, that sounds or disgusted. I
had to get her a new headboard, but I did.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I want to ask you a question, what is the
best advice you've ever been given? Oh, that's a big question.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I know that is a big question the best advice,
I mean, there's different categories of advice. I think. I
think one thing that sticks out in my mind is
that my mom told me, well, two things. My mom
told me two things that I thought were very very good.
(12:43):
One was be careful who you date because you can
fall in love with anyone. Okay, good advice, which really
is good advice because you know what, like all humans
have beautiful qualities, and yeah, you can find all the
good qualities. Yeah, and you can look yes, yeah. And
when you if you have a life, pat you have
things in your life that are important to you, and like, like,
(13:06):
all right, just off the top of my head, you
want children, right, and you meet someone who absolutely does
not want children, you should not date that person. That
is a red flag because you will never convince this
person to have children. It'll never be harmonious. No, no,
you can't do that, So be careful who you do. Okay, good,
That was that's number one, right, And then number two,
and this one I think is very very important is
(13:28):
to have friends of all ages and all stages of life.
Because you know, when you're younger, obviously you're friends with
people your age. It's developmental when you're super young. It's
I can't think of the word I'm trying to look
for right now. But it's like, you know, you're in
a certain grade of school when you're older, or a
(13:48):
certain you know, a part of your life where you're
in college, so you're friends with college people, or you've
just you know, you're graduated, and your bubble can get
really too small. Yeah. And it's funny because I remember
when I was younger saying to my mom, Oh my gosh,
your friends, that couple that your friends with there so old,
Like why are you friends with them? And she said
(14:11):
to me, no, it's so good. They have a different perspective.
And so I have always made sure I have people
in my life that are older and that are younger.
I was, you know, recently when we moved back to
la you know, we were talking about going back to
scripted work, you and I recently, which I really do
want to do my own terms, as we both discussed,
(14:32):
and what makes sense for my life now. So I
joined the Groundlings, and I audition to the Groundlings, got
in and started taking class with the Groundlings. Oh my gosh,
you're so brave. You should do with me. Wow, I
can't even answer that. No, you should come take a class. Okay, wait,
just tell me what it's like first. It's I'm gonna
get back to that a second. But here's what I'm
going to tell you. I took the Groundings, and I
did it with a girlfriend of mine, also an actress.
(14:54):
You might hurt, but my friend Dina, who we've been
friends for a million years, and not only do we
have the best time, it was all I call them kids.
They were all the kids in the class. They were kids,
and they were great, and we'd go out with them,
we had dinners with them, we'd go to drinks. We'd
be like we were joking, like smoking a cigarette, like
we don't smoke anymore, but you know, like, oh, darlings,
(15:15):
in the few days, you were the old people. We
were the old people. They were the young people. It
was but you know what, I didn't feel any different
than they were at all, right, And it was unbelievably
fun and honestly, like I ended up doing this little
musical thing with one of them because she wrote this
show like it was just such an interesting fun Yeah,
(15:37):
really bold, fucking scary thing to do. But I'm sort
of in that mindset. I really encourage you to do
this too. Like I just started taking so I started
as a musical theater person. I was a singer and
a fourteen piece big band that I toured with fears.
I'm taking vocal lessons again. It's terrifying. I love this though.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
It's a whole new You have the time now, you
are at the phase I'm like making the time.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Almost an empty nester, but I'm making the time. You're
so busy. I'm so busy. We still have the kids
even if they're not at home.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
But do you feel like you're like consciously choosing what
it is that you want to take the time and do,
like making those brave decisions and choices.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
I'm seeing what fits so Okay. So I like, like,
I can't take the next Groundlings class right now because
I have other obligations right so I'm putting it off
until May, and I'll do the next one in May.
But I know in my mind it would do that.
So I'm like, Okay, what day do I free and
what do I need to prioritize here? Okay, and then
I'll try something and if it fills me and feeds
(16:38):
my soul, I do it and if it doesn't, I'm out.
You don't need to waste time because you know the
you don't need to waste time. And didn't you feel
like when you hit fifty it was like I got
nothing to lose. Right, it's halftime, yep. Got to gather
the troops, put them in the locker room and go, Okay,
what do we do well last court? Last half? What
didn't we do well? We gotta move forward and there's
(17:01):
something different. Yeah, there's no more time to like stress
about it or feel upset about things that didn't go well. Right,
I just keep moving forward. You have to keep moving forward.
I'm not always good at this, but I'm really trying
to consciously make sure that every day. Like sometimes you
know when you wake up in the morning and you go, oh,
what do I have to do today? I go, what
(17:22):
do I get to do today? I go what do
I get to do today? And even if it sucks,
I'm trying to find like something within the day. Like
I'm obsessed with plates right now. Oh that's a good obsession. Yeah.
I used to be into running and all these things,
but my body can't handle it anymore. So you know
what that's Okay, I've realized that there's different ages and
stages for fitness also, right, And now I'm obsessed with pilates.
(17:45):
I love it and I love this place I go,
and it makes me happy when I'm there. So even
if that's the only great thing, that's how I'm gonna
start my day.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
It's hard to say I get to go to the
gym today, all right.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
If you hate it, but you could say no, I
get it. I used to hate it too. I had
a switch with it a number of years ago because
I never was a workout person. I never liked it.
Had to hate hate hate. But then when like orange
theory became a thing, I started going there and I
(18:17):
really developed a love for like running and the hit
thing and whatever. But my body started breaking down from
that kind of exercise after a decade of that. So
now I'm into this and this is great for your body,
and it's you know what, you get to lie down
for half the class. I really highly recommend me. I
know it's dark. It's like dark too. There's this like
hot mat class that I go to. It's so good.
(18:39):
I thought you were going to say something about the instructor,
but okay, oh, the mat. No, there's no hot instructor,
no class. I mean it's usually women, which are women,
they are hot, but like, yeah, yeah, I'm not looking
for that. No, so anyway, so yeah. So But even
if it's not that, you have to build something into
your day, even if it's you or like frothed coffee
(19:03):
that you love that you sit and you scroll, or
you whatever it is that you that guilty pleasure thing
that you do, you got to focus on that thing. Yep,
that's so true.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Have you ever given advice to someone who didn't want it, like,
and that backfired for you?
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Oh? I'm sure a million times that's happened. I really,
What do you mean? You're sure? Because because I'm so outspoken,
you know, and when I was younger, I'm sure I
felt like, if I'm perfectly honest, that I knew better
than someone else did and had the best advice. I
think I've become much better at listening as I've gotten older. Yeah,
(19:42):
reading the room maybe, and reading the room and not
being so verbose about things sometimes. You know, it's okay
to not tell everyone exactly you want, you think, but
if someone asks for my opinion, I'm happy to give
it right, there's a difference. There is a difference. Yes,
if someone comes to you and asks for advice, they
(20:03):
want your expertise on something, they want your perspective. Yeah,
And if they don't like it, then they really didn't
want it in the first place, and then that's fucked right. Well.
And also they if they don't take your advice like
they don't, well they don't have.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
To take they don't have to take it, but it'd
be better for them if they did, right.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
But I mean, don't you say that with your kids? Sometimes,
like my eighteen year old will come to you and
be like mom, and then ask me this whole thing,
and I'll listen, and I'll think to myself, what does
she want mess here? But then I'll give my honest
advice and then she'll say yeah, no, no. But what
I do notice is it will still make her think.
(20:40):
It'll be in the back of her mind, yes, and
it might inform right she ends up course, of course,
but they'll never admit it.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
No. What about this marriage of yours? You have been
married to the same man, sorry, because that's not the
case for me.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
The same man over every day every day. How do
you do it?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Like I love change, and I feel like I've changed
my husband's a few times and that's been really fun.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
But how do you stay with the same man for
twenty four we're together twenty eight years? Twenty eight Yeah,
we've been married twenty five and a half. Yeah, marriage
is hard work. I will say, you know we met
we didn't. I mean we met when I was twenty
seven and he was thirty eight, so it's I wasn't
(21:38):
twenty two. We got married when I was thirty Again,
wasn't twenty two. Now I can give you a million
reasons why I think we're together. I think the honest
to God truth is marriage is a leap of faith
and you have absolutely no idea what you're getting into
until you get into it. Nope, yep, at all you have.
(22:00):
You have the best of intentions, and that's why if
there are red flags before you're walking down the aisle,
do not do it.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
No. I know it's hard to do though. Sometimes there's
a few little red flags. Maybe they're pink, I know.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
But that's why I hate when I hear people get
married fast, and I don't understand why people rush into marriage. Yeah,
and the truth is, when you have a child with
someone as you know, that's the forever moment. Marriage is
not necessarily forever, right. I don't understand why people like
they meet, they want to rush, they want to get
into it. I will tell you that there's certain moments
(22:34):
in a relationship you don't get back. You don't get
back the courtship period, and you don't get back the
engaged period, because it's once you're married, then you're just married.
Then it's just ticking of time. So I highly recommend
that people enjoy all of those things. And again, if
there are red flags that means it is not time
(22:56):
to get married, you got to figure that out. Yeah,
like dig into those red flags before you I mean
like I didn't have those red flag of course when
you're dating someone. Yeah, people you know, they urk you.
You got to figure out if you can live together,
you know, all those normal sort of things. But you know,
like we were talking about before, if someone is saying
(23:16):
they don't want to have kids, you want to have kids.
They don't like to travel. You like to travel. You
are very active. They're a couch potato. They like to
have guys' nights or guys weekends every weekend. You know
it depends on what's important to you. Some people like
I can't remember who I just read an actress she
(23:37):
just got married last year. I have to think of
her name. And she and her husband live in separate states. Huh,
and they love it and it's perfect for them. They
both have their own careers. He's maybe I don't remember
what he does, but anyway, they both have very significant
careers and they're great and when they come together, they
have the best time and they love each other. But
(23:58):
this is how their relationship works that model. It's not
me to judge what will or will not work for
someone else, but for me, like I could not have
been with someone that didn't want kids. That would have
been a hard note, even though again I wasn't someone
that was like dying to have children my whole life.
But I just felt like it was something I would do.
(24:18):
At twenty seven, you said, did you know what you're like,
what your non negotiables were? No, not at all. That's
why I'm saying it was a leap of faith. But
I think that wait, wait, wait, how long did you
wait till you got married? So we dated for a
year and a half, okay, got engaged and then we
were engaged for a year and then got married. But
remember he's ten and a half years older, so when
(24:40):
we got married, he was forty, so it was like
it felt okay. I think if he had been my
age or a couple years older, we probably would have
waited longer to get married. Yeah, that's what I think.
You learn a lot about I did all the things
you said we shouldn't be doing. I got married.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I got engaged three months into a relationship and married
six months and two.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
That and you were young. And when you're that age,
it wasn't that young, this old. This was in my
early forties. This was my current.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Oh oh, this wasn't you. But you're still together.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
I told you I like change. He doesn't like when
I say that because he gets little nervous. But we're
still together.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
How long have you live? Been together? Ten years? That's
a long time. It's funny, I interviewed. You want to
know what's crazy. I haven't had an alcohol week two
weeks right now, and I think it's given me brain fog.
Not drinking No, no normally or Norman Lear famous Norman Lear,
adorable who passed away last year. Anyway, Norman Lear who
(25:42):
you know who I don't know normally er he created
a million television shows all in the family, like a
million TV shows love him, like the King of the
sitcom and he lived to like one hundred and one. Anyway,
he was on the show and we were talking and
he was talking about his failed marriages and he was
worrying about one wife in particular. When I go, how
(26:04):
long were you married? And he said thirty years. I go,
that's not a failed marriage. That's thirty years is a
huge long life together. When marriage was created, people didn't
live past like eighteen. I don't think it was intended
for people to be together for fifty six years. It is,
you know, not the norm for people to be together.
What do you get divorced after three like they call
(26:27):
it a gray divorce. It's very I just ran into
someone last night who was telling me that his parents
are getting divorced after thirty years and they're in their seventies,
and it's called it's a new thing. They're called it
a gray divorce, like gray hair. Uh huh that older
people like they just they hit a wall and they're like,
or no, I'm done. Yeah, how many years I got
left by bye, not doing with you. I love them.
(26:51):
That's so funny. I feel bad for your husband now
I'm worried, but I really do like this great divorce thing. Yeah,
it's always on the table, you know, a few years.
But you're well, we'll never go great. Let's be honest,
that's not really in our future. I'm gonna go white, Betty, No,
you're a gorgeous blonde. Just keep it stop. So so
(27:13):
we I think it's a leap of faith. I think
that we've been lucky and we have really done a
good job of upping our game decade by decade as
it's been needed. And that's been so good for us
because neither of us are like therapy kids. Like we
(27:36):
didn't go to therapy, our parents didn't really talk to us.
We're like flying by the seat of our pants here.
But I think both kind of you know, reasonably intelligent people,
and him for sure, Hyer Transurgeon and we separately have
come to each other at different times and been like,
(27:57):
look what are we doing with this? This isn't working.
You know, what's going on with you? What's going on
with us. It's really important to date your spouse and
that continue to date Terry believes in going to sleep mad.
Some people don't. Some people want to fix it before
does he explain why. He thinks that's because he thinks
(28:17):
the end of the night, it's a bad idea. And
he's right, you're tired, especially you've had dreams or anything.
It's just it's not the time. Yeah, daytime is better,
you know, learn how to fight healthy. Yeah, and you
have to learn each other's fighting styles and you have
to meet in the middle somewhere. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
You learn so much about a person as the years tick.
You think you know everything and then you learn something new.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah. But I have to say, like, we're best friends.
We do you know, we've done We've written three books together.
We you know, it's our hobby. We've done TV shows together.
We love that we have product line together. We sell supplements.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
And you're like, relationship goals. Have you ever done like
a like a couple's retreat?
Speaker 1 (28:59):
No? No, like saying like bring back the fire? No? Nothing,
like like like's a host water go to to one?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
No?
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Would you know what we do? We just go to Paris? Oh? Yeah,
have some time together. Yeah. We're really good, really really
good at dating each other. And I have to say,
you know, I because I wasn't working for a bunch
of years when the kids were little. There was like
(29:28):
I mean, I did a couple of pilots that kind
of thing, but I wasn't like steadily working. There was
like a seven eight year period of time where I
was just home and he, you know, is a surgeon
and he was at work and like busy busy. So
except for that period of time, we've been really good
at taking time together. And because he wasn't that he's
(29:50):
not a baby person. Sweet, he's never don't want to make
himself like a bad dad, Like he's great now that
he goes he goes to babies. He hates children, but
now that the kids are older, like he's the best
and he's the best relationship with our kids, and he's
such a good connected dad of this age and up
that it's been so amazing. But I will tell you
(30:11):
he loves me, and I say this very confidently, more
than anyone in the world. And he would choose me
over the children. Like if he stops loving me, he's
not capable of loving because that's because that's him. That's
got to feel like such a good place to be
it's great and he has your back. He does you
(30:32):
give a lot of advice. Who do you go to
for advice? Him? I go to him. I'll talk to
my kids sometimes, depending on what the situation is. I
have some trusted people girlfriends in my life, depending on
what the situation is that I feel really comfortable. I
got burned a number of years ago. Look, relationships just
(30:55):
like anything, you know, it's they go up and down.
Terry and I don't fight about real things. I have
to say, well, bicker like most people bicker. But there's
been very few big, heavy things. But there was one
once years ago. We were kind of fighting about being
on a reality show because it took its toll, as
you know, and we had to have a come to
(31:15):
Jesus moment where I said to him, look, we either
figure out how to do this or we get off
this show because this it's not working. And during that
period of time, I talked to who I thought was
a girlfriend of mine about this, and she repeated things
I said and twisted him and you know, started a
narrative out there, and I was just like it, really
(31:36):
that broke me, and it was very hard for me
to open up to people about things like that.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
So I keep that tight tight. I think that's the
best way to keep it.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
My husband is ultimately like my best friend, and I
go to him and gives me a different perspective than
I have. He keeps me grounded, he tells, he calls
me out. Yeah, just yesterday.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, And it's hard to hear that stuff mind us too.
It's so annoying, and it's really annoying when they're right.
They're always right. Terry's always right. It's so annoying.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah, that's what they say about marriage though. It's like
holding that mirror up. They're the mirror.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
But then if you don't want to know, don't ask.
He'll say that to me too, But that I'll say
to him, And this is how we teach each other. Right,
I'll go listen right now. I don't want you to
fix it. I don't want to hear what you have
to say. Just let me vent. I need to cry.
I need to vent, and then you could do that.
Just give me a minute. Yeah, that's good communication. Yes,
you got to tell them they're not mind readers. If
(32:34):
you expect them to be mind readers, you both lose,
very very true.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
I think that it's important to maintain that independence from
your husband, even when you are as close. I think
it sounds like you're as close to your husband.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
I'm very good. Can't be codependent. No, no, I love
time away from him. Yeah, but I feel like that
happens with us. It happens sort of naturally, because of
the hour, because of the jobs. It just kind of happens.
But I have to say, I mean, I hate to
say these things out loud, because you know, when you
talk nicely about your relationship, it always goes to shit.
(33:09):
You always fight that night. If you say so, I'm
gonna just pooh poo poop. But yeah, but all I
have to say is, like, we'll go away together. Like
we were just in Paris dropping off my daughter at
school and we spent some time with her. Dropped her
at school. She's there for the semester, and when we
dropped her, we ended up we stayed a few extra
days because we love Paris. It's like our happy place.
(33:30):
So we stayed there a few days and we came home.
We fly home, we get home and we go out
to dinner together. Wow, Like we just you like to
be just like to be together. I like that.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Yeah, I'm kind of the same way you just said
your daughter is doing a semester in Paris. I had
my daughter do a semester in London, and I was
very difficult for me.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Why. I don't know, it's just smelled so far away. Well,
so my son, so the twins. So he my son
went to Italy first semester and she's in Paris now.
And at first I was like, could you coordinate to
be gone at the same time, right, But then I
realized I got to go to Europe all year and
I love it, and you know, again like finding joy
(34:13):
in things like we were talking about finding time for
classes or finding time for this. I will go to
Europe for the This is not relatable. I'm just gonna
say this before. This is not a relatable thing. When
I'm about to say, I apologize in advance. Ready, but
I will go to Paris for the weekend if I
have time for hits and giggles, if there's a thing
(34:36):
like my son was done with his tour in Italy
and it was my youngest son's birthday and I didn't
really concept think about the fact we were going for
a weekend, but I took them skiing in the French
Alps for four days and it was like a long
weekend and it was a long way to go, but
it was so great and the two of them bonding
and I went skiing for the first time and it
(34:58):
was fantastic. And so now my daughter there and she's like,
I'm lonely, I miss you, I'm homesick. I go I
may have a weekend. That's the thing.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Because you and I are both homemakers. Yes, we want
our homes to be the sanctuary for our family. It
sounds like we're very similar in respect. How what is
it like when your kids they don't want to leave?
It's so good where they were at home.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Yeah, I hear kids want to stay here the like
thirty Now. Honestly, I'm okay with it. I don't know.
I want them to be close, but not that close. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Well my daughter, yeah, well two of my girls are
still at home, and our house is small and the
bedrooms are all right together.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yeah. There is no privacy, privacy, yeah at all. And
they're cool with that. There.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I did that on purpose because they were teenagers. When
about the house UNDERSTI wanted to keep them close.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
You wanted to hear what was calling. I'm kind of
like I knew more. Yeah right, but I want you.
I like that you like change. It might be time
to move. I have thought about it, definitely thought about it.
Oh I love our conversation. Yeah too good.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I have to ask you one last question, Heather Deubro,
what was your last I choose me moment?
Speaker 1 (36:09):
I mean, Swiss alps ain't bad. Yeah, but that's not it.
I really think it's going back to vocal lessons, and
I would say just in the category I signed up for,
like a bunch of things, a bunch of classes where
I'm really choosing me. It's a really hard thing. I
(36:29):
wonder if you feel the same way, where you know
you want to put things out into the world to
make them real and put you know, manifest them. But
there's also a school of thought where don't tell people
what you're doing, show them when it happens. And I
feel like when I was younger, it was like, oh,
I don't want to tell anyone because it'll jinx it
or it'll this, or it all that kind of over that,
(36:50):
like I don't really care. Like I loved when I
told you that I'm doing this class you. You were
a little horrified and kind of excited at the same time. Right,
That's how I was. And I feel like i'm me
by pushing myself out of my comfort zone and into
these areas because again, we have nothing to lose. And
by the way, and you don't give a fuck, I
(37:10):
don't give a fuck. And if I could just toot
our horns any collectively, like we look really good and
we're talented, and we're thriving, and our audience watches TV,
so why not. Yeah, I mean you said it, it's
time to go back. I love that, right, So this
is a first step. And what's also really great is
(37:31):
remember when you're younger and you're like, oh shit, if
something doesn't happen in the next six months, I'm done.
Nothing will ever happen again. Where will I be? I'll
shrivel up and die. Now you're like, I'm already all
it doesn't matter. Three months, six months, next year, or
whatever it happens, it happens. It's fine, exactly. Yeah, Oh
you're set. You're just in a great place in your life.
I can feel it. Yeah, so are you. It's so good.
I love it. Thank you so much, Thank you for
(37:53):
having me. I loved meeting you. I mean, well, now
you really know, and yeah, I know you so well.
I love it.
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hey, everybody, welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is
all about the choices we make and where they lead us.
My guest today is pretty much incredible, a reality TV icon,
an entrepreneur, an actress, a mother, a wife, a voice
of reason to so many, and an advocate for the
LGBTQ plus community, which is amazing. You know her from
(00:33):
multiple seasons of the Real Housewives of Orange County and
our podcast Let's Talk with Heather Dubro.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Here she is in front of me. Let's talk Heather Dubro.
I just did your podcast. Yes, it was amazing, loved
having you.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
If you guys didn't hear it, go over and check
it out on Let's Talk with Heather Deubra.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
But do you say DEBRAU to b This is why
they took me. When Terry and I got married, it
took me like fifteen years to change my name because
my name was Heather Page Can. It's a good name,
that's a great and it's not even a stage. That
was my name either. Page can't Ether Page Can and
I meet Terry and we get married, and it looks
the way it's spelled it looks like dubrow, like eyebrow,
(01:12):
and I hated that, so I said, down, my go,
if you change the spelling to like d u b
r e a u X like du bleau, I'm totally in.
Yeah he would know. So it took me like fifteen years.
Then I finally changed it.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Well, I like it dubro dubro yes, like hey bro, heybro. Yeah,
the spelling really does throw me every time.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
I lo, that's okay.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
We were talking so much and we had such a
great conversation, so definitely check that out. But I realized
I came here thinking, oh, I'm so excited to meet her,
to get to know her. It's not the first time
that we've met, so embarrassing for me.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Correct it was a long time, but I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
You're not mad at me about it, and now you're like,
you'll just tell me and remind me.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
And now now I remember, Yes, we go way back, yeah,
way back, like almost twenty years. It's so good. It's
so good. And I did learn.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
I feel much closer to you now because we never
sat down and had these kinds of definitely these amazing talks.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So I'm really.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Excited to be able to do that today with you
and getting to know you. I love the woman that
you are. You're You're inspirational, You're what you're doing with
your platform and as an entrepreneur things that you're doing.
You have your own fashion line. You've done amazing stuff
with your husband too, which I love. I've always wanted
(02:30):
to do work with my husband. He's in the restaurant world.
So it's not really Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
So you don't have anything. Well, it's funny. I thought
I married a doctor. I didn't. Really, I married like
a TV star. It wasn't on my Bengo card, but
I created I'd say he's my Frankenstein, I say sometimes.
But you know his show Botch was really born out
of Housewives really well, I mean yeah, kind of because
he and Paul Nassif, who's ex wife was on Beverly
(02:58):
Hills Housewives, and we've known them since before they got
married a long time, so you know, that's really how
that was born. So what that platform has done for
us is you know huge.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, can I say something and you won't get mad
at me? No, I've never watched really anywhere, yeh, don't.
It's embarrassing to say at this point, because it's it's
a monster.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
It's everywhere, It's everywhere, and I have such.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Profound appreciation for it because I understand what it takes
and the women, so many of the women on it
are just bad ass, amazing women. But I've never watched
an episode.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, so I watched like the first season of Beverly
Hills because we knew Paul and Adrian, and I was like, oh, like,
you know, let's watch them. So we watched like the
first season, I think, and that was it. And then
when I joined Orange County, I had never seen Orange County.
I knew nothing about it. And so was that the
(03:55):
second iteration of it? It was the first Orange County
to the original it is. Yeah, this will be the
nineteenth season of Orange County Housewives. Wow is that crazy?
And I started the show when my youngest was nine
months old and he just turned fourteen. You are a
completely different person when you started, completely different. But I
was on it and then I left and then I
came back. Okay, why did you leave? I left because
(04:18):
it had just changed and my kids were at an
age where, you know, it's like sort of an awkward
stage and just the universe. I've become really good at
listening to the universe when they're telling me yes or no,
because when I haven't listened, it hasn't gone well. And
it was really time to go. So I left, and
I left for four seasons, but with the pandemic it
turned into five years. So when I went back to
(04:41):
the show, it was literally ten years from the date
I joined, which was, yes, a decade later, completely different person.
But I came back to the show because I really
thought I could use the platform to start conversations in
other people's families. Because we have four kids, there are
different genders, different sexualities, and all with things. And I
(05:01):
got so many messages from kids and parents, some really
wonderful and some so tragic of things that had happened
in their families. And I thought, Okay, if we just
put our incredibly normal family, people have something to model,
they have something to look at.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, you just did an interview, I think with today
dot com about the diversity within your own family and
what an impact that has had on so many by
you just talking about it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, and even just being there. So I had a
friend in high school that I was friendly with. We
weren't like great friends. We were friendly, and we've become
very good friends later in life. And this friend told
me that they, well, they're gay. And they told me
that they didn't understand being gay when we were in
(05:47):
high school because they didn't have any role models on
TV or in movies, nothing to look at. And they
told me that they had decided that by the time
they were a senior, if things had gotten better for them,
they were going to take their own lives. And I
never would have thought in a million years that this
(06:08):
incredibly confident person that I knew and now know would
have ever felt that way. But it's because they just
didn't have anything to say. This is who you are,
it's okay, it's okay. And so I thought, I don't
have to get on a soapbox. I don't have to
use my children as storylines. I don't have to tell
their stories for them. I don't have to do anything.
(06:28):
We just have to be be who you are, authentic. Yeah,
and that helps people, and it does. And I've been
able to do things on the show, like through an
event last year on the show for family equality and
presented at the GLAD Awards this year. We're doing something
with the Trevor Project and being able to do that
kind of thing and using the platform for that is amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, I've heard other women say that too, that it's
because of the platform that they were able to.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with using the platform for fame, fortune,
you know, whatever floats your boat, Like, that's totally fine.
But me coming back into this situation, that's what it's
been for me.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I think that's such a brave choice, but not so
much brave because it's just your family.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, And I just I feel like I've been given
these kids for a reason. We were talking before on
my podcast, like I didn't or maybe it was even
before we started recording, you know, I started late. I
didn't know we'd have four kids. And it's just interesting
what life gives you. And then you think, why.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Tell me about that though, Tell me about you were
an actress full time, that was your jam, you were
doing it, you were killing it, you'd been doing a
lot of work, and then you had a baby.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
So I yes. So my last show was a show
called That's Life. It was on CBS. I started the
show and it was like one of the shows you
and I were talking about, which is seventeen hours on set.
You're up at three thirty in the morning. There's no
social life. Xhausted. And I loved every second of it,
every second. And that show got canceled and I was
(08:08):
in pilot season and figuring it out. You know, We've
been trying to get pregnant. We had infertility and whatever,
and I was like, I need a break after going
to the fertility doctor and doing all the things. How
old are you thirty four? Okay, right? And so I
took a little break and then we were like, fuck it,
let's we're gonna do. We have to do IVF. That
(08:29):
was the next step that they told us, because we
had done all these you know, I UIs and all
these other things whatever. So I put it off and
then finally I go, let's do it. And of course
the day I schedule, you know, to have my embryos
and my eggs extracted, I think for the IVF, I
get a network test and I literally went to the
(08:49):
procedure in the morning, anesthesia not fun. Woke up from
the anesthesia, took a few hours at home, put on
my makeup, had a driver because I wasn't gonna drive,
and went to the network test, did not get the part.
I would like to tell you it's not a great ending.
But the great ending is I got pregnant. So yeah,
(09:11):
that took. And you know, it's funny because sometimes you
don't even know what to wish for, you know, like
you want the part, I want the baby, but you
were really keeping things open. You were like, yeah, see
what happens, let's roll the dice. And so I ended
up getting pregnant with twins. Oh yeah, And I got
pregnant with the twins, and we were living in LA
(09:32):
and you know, the rest is sort of history.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I love that you are very honest, You're a very
straight shooter, and you have good advice, Like I've already
had things that I'm going to go and check out
that we talked about. Well, what did we talked about earlier?
Not unpacking your suitcase right in a hotel room.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Yes, well, you have to be careful of the upholstery
because of bed books. Yes, got to watch for the
bed books. That is just so gross, and but it's
it's so gross. But we had bedbugs. Want a small
is what happened? We were we had just moved into
this house and I had this beautiful headboard made by
a local upholsterer from my daughter who was three, and
(10:16):
it was this pink, beautiful upholstered headboard with diamonds in it.
It was so cute and it was a local person
and I just said, hey, I bought the fabrics. I
don't know. That room came together last for some reason,
and I guess he made it in his little ware. Anyway,
there were bed bugs because my little cute girl, with
(10:36):
her little chubby cheeks, she'd wake up in the morning
and have all these bites on her face. And I
was like, what is going on? And then of course
we're looking it up. I'm looking it up, and if
they're in a line, they say it's bed bugs. And
now I'm freaking out because if you look to see
how you have to get rid of bed bugs, you
might as well just burn everything and leave. It's just
it's a disaster. So I call this company that someone
(10:58):
told me to call, and there's a dog that they
have come to your house to sniff out the bed bugs. Okay,
So I'm like, all right, So I call the place
and they and I'm expecting like a doberman, like some
big gnarly bug seeking thing. I open the door and
(11:19):
it is I am not kidding a poodle. It is
a small poodle.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
That is.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
And the person with the lesion, I'm like, really, it's
a poodle. Poodles go all right? So they bring the
dog in the house, and the dog they bring him upstairs.
The dog is upstairs, immediately goes to the headboard, to
the headboard, starts stiffing around. They take the headboard out,
they take it out to their truck. They slice it
open and there's bedbugs. So now they take the dog
(11:45):
back up to the room and the dog doesn't find anything.
Because I'm like, do I take the mattress out? Do
I call the guy? What happened?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
No?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I just never used him again. I would think you
would have at least called him. And I think he
knows he has been bugs. How does he not know
he's infested with bed bugs? It was so gross, It
was so disgusting. But anyways, that sounds or disgusted. I
had to get her a new headboard, but I did.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I want to ask you a question, what is the
best advice you've ever been given? Oh, that's a big question.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I know that is a big question the best advice,
I mean, there's different categories of advice. I think. I
think one thing that sticks out in my mind is
that my mom told me, well, two things. My mom
told me two things that I thought were very very good.
(12:43):
One was be careful who you date because you can
fall in love with anyone. Okay, good advice, which really
is good advice because you know what, like all humans
have beautiful qualities, and yeah, you can find all the
good qualities. Yeah, and you can look yes, yeah. And
when you if you have a life, pat you have
things in your life that are important to you, and like, like,
(13:06):
all right, just off the top of my head, you
want children, right, and you meet someone who absolutely does
not want children, you should not date that person. That
is a red flag because you will never convince this
person to have children. It'll never be harmonious. No, no,
you can't do that, So be careful who you do. Okay, good,
That was that's number one, right, And then number two,
and this one I think is very very important is
(13:28):
to have friends of all ages and all stages of life.
Because you know, when you're younger, obviously you're friends with
people your age. It's developmental when you're super young. It's
I can't think of the word I'm trying to look
for right now. But it's like, you know, you're in
a certain grade of school when you're older, or a
(13:48):
certain you know, a part of your life where you're
in college, so you're friends with college people, or you've
just you know, you're graduated, and your bubble can get
really too small. Yeah. And it's funny because I remember
when I was younger saying to my mom, Oh my gosh,
your friends, that couple that your friends with there so old,
Like why are you friends with them? And she said
(14:11):
to me, no, it's so good. They have a different perspective.
And so I have always made sure I have people
in my life that are older and that are younger.
I was, you know, recently when we moved back to
la you know, we were talking about going back to
scripted work, you and I recently, which I really do
want to do my own terms, as we both discussed,
(14:32):
and what makes sense for my life now. So I
joined the Groundlings, and I audition to the Groundlings, got
in and started taking class with the Groundlings. Oh my gosh,
you're so brave. You should do with me. Wow, I
can't even answer that. No, you should come take a class. Okay, wait,
just tell me what it's like first. It's I'm gonna
get back to that a second. But here's what I'm
going to tell you. I took the Groundings, and I
did it with a girlfriend of mine, also an actress.
(14:54):
You might hurt, but my friend Dina, who we've been
friends for a million years, and not only do we
have the best time, it was all I call them kids.
They were all the kids in the class. They were kids,
and they were great, and we'd go out with them,
we had dinners with them, we'd go to drinks. We'd
be like we were joking, like smoking a cigarette, like
we don't smoke anymore, but you know, like, oh, darlings,
(15:15):
in the few days, you were the old people. We
were the old people. They were the young people. It
was but you know what, I didn't feel any different
than they were at all, right, And it was unbelievably
fun and honestly, like I ended up doing this little
musical thing with one of them because she wrote this
show like it was just such an interesting fun Yeah,
(15:37):
really bold, fucking scary thing to do. But I'm sort
of in that mindset. I really encourage you to do
this too. Like I just started taking so I started
as a musical theater person. I was a singer and
a fourteen piece big band that I toured with fears.
I'm taking vocal lessons again. It's terrifying. I love this though.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
It's a whole new You have the time now, you
are at the phase I'm like making the time.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Almost an empty nester, but I'm making the time. You're
so busy. I'm so busy. We still have the kids
even if they're not at home.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
But do you feel like you're like consciously choosing what
it is that you want to take the time and do,
like making those brave decisions and choices.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
I'm seeing what fits so Okay. So I like, like,
I can't take the next Groundlings class right now because
I have other obligations right so I'm putting it off
until May, and I'll do the next one in May.
But I know in my mind it would do that.
So I'm like, Okay, what day do I free and
what do I need to prioritize here? Okay, and then
I'll try something and if it fills me and feeds
(16:38):
my soul, I do it and if it doesn't, I'm out.
You don't need to waste time because you know the
you don't need to waste time. And didn't you feel
like when you hit fifty it was like I got
nothing to lose. Right, it's halftime, yep. Got to gather
the troops, put them in the locker room and go, Okay,
what do we do well last court? Last half? What
didn't we do well? We gotta move forward and there's
(17:01):
something different. Yeah, there's no more time to like stress
about it or feel upset about things that didn't go well. Right,
I just keep moving forward. You have to keep moving forward.
I'm not always good at this, but I'm really trying
to consciously make sure that every day. Like sometimes you
know when you wake up in the morning and you go, oh,
what do I have to do today? I go, what
(17:22):
do I get to do today? I go what do
I get to do today? And even if it sucks,
I'm trying to find like something within the day. Like
I'm obsessed with plates right now. Oh that's a good obsession. Yeah.
I used to be into running and all these things,
but my body can't handle it anymore. So you know
what that's Okay, I've realized that there's different ages and
stages for fitness also, right, And now I'm obsessed with pilates.
(17:45):
I love it and I love this place I go,
and it makes me happy when I'm there. So even
if that's the only great thing, that's how I'm gonna
start my day.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
It's hard to say I get to go to the
gym today, all right.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
If you hate it, but you could say no, I
get it. I used to hate it too. I had
a switch with it a number of years ago because
I never was a workout person. I never liked it.
Had to hate hate hate. But then when like orange
theory became a thing, I started going there and I
(18:17):
really developed a love for like running and the hit
thing and whatever. But my body started breaking down from
that kind of exercise after a decade of that. So
now I'm into this and this is great for your body,
and it's you know what, you get to lie down
for half the class. I really highly recommend me. I
know it's dark. It's like dark too. There's this like
hot mat class that I go to. It's so good.
(18:39):
I thought you were going to say something about the instructor,
but okay, oh, the mat. No, there's no hot instructor,
no class. I mean it's usually women, which are women,
they are hot, but like, yeah, yeah, I'm not looking
for that. No, so anyway, so yeah. So But even
if it's not that, you have to build something into
your day, even if it's you or like frothed coffee
(19:03):
that you love that you sit and you scroll, or
you whatever it is that you that guilty pleasure thing
that you do, you got to focus on that thing. Yep,
that's so true.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Have you ever given advice to someone who didn't want it, like,
and that backfired for you?
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Oh? I'm sure a million times that's happened. I really,
What do you mean? You're sure? Because because I'm so outspoken,
you know, and when I was younger, I'm sure I
felt like, if I'm perfectly honest, that I knew better
than someone else did and had the best advice. I
think I've become much better at listening as I've gotten older. Yeah,
(19:42):
reading the room maybe, and reading the room and not
being so verbose about things sometimes. You know, it's okay
to not tell everyone exactly you want, you think, but
if someone asks for my opinion, I'm happy to give
it right, there's a difference. There is a difference. Yes,
if someone comes to you and asks for advice, they
(20:03):
want your expertise on something, they want your perspective. Yeah,
And if they don't like it, then they really didn't
want it in the first place, and then that's fucked right. Well.
And also they if they don't take your advice like
they don't, well they don't have.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
To take they don't have to take it, but it'd
be better for them if they did, right.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
But I mean, don't you say that with your kids? Sometimes,
like my eighteen year old will come to you and
be like mom, and then ask me this whole thing,
and I'll listen, and I'll think to myself, what does
she want mess here? But then I'll give my honest
advice and then she'll say yeah, no, no. But what
I do notice is it will still make her think.
(20:40):
It'll be in the back of her mind, yes, and
it might inform right she ends up course, of course,
but they'll never admit it.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
No. What about this marriage of yours? You have been
married to the same man, sorry, because that's not the
case for me.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
The same man over every day every day. How do
you do it?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Like I love change, and I feel like I've changed
my husband's a few times and that's been really fun.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
But how do you stay with the same man for
twenty four we're together twenty eight years? Twenty eight Yeah,
we've been married twenty five and a half. Yeah, marriage
is hard work. I will say, you know we met
we didn't. I mean we met when I was twenty
seven and he was thirty eight, so it's I wasn't
(21:38):
twenty two. We got married when I was thirty Again,
wasn't twenty two. Now I can give you a million
reasons why I think we're together. I think the honest
to God truth is marriage is a leap of faith
and you have absolutely no idea what you're getting into
until you get into it. Nope, yep, at all you have.
(22:00):
You have the best of intentions, and that's why if
there are red flags before you're walking down the aisle,
do not do it.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
No. I know it's hard to do though. Sometimes there's
a few little red flags. Maybe they're pink, I know.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
But that's why I hate when I hear people get
married fast, and I don't understand why people rush into marriage. Yeah,
and the truth is, when you have a child with
someone as you know, that's the forever moment. Marriage is
not necessarily forever, right. I don't understand why people like
they meet, they want to rush, they want to get
into it. I will tell you that there's certain moments
(22:34):
in a relationship you don't get back. You don't get
back the courtship period, and you don't get back the
engaged period, because it's once you're married, then you're just married.
Then it's just ticking of time. So I highly recommend
that people enjoy all of those things. And again, if
there are red flags that means it is not time
(22:56):
to get married, you got to figure that out. Yeah,
like dig into those red flags before you I mean
like I didn't have those red flag of course when
you're dating someone. Yeah, people you know, they urk you.
You got to figure out if you can live together,
you know, all those normal sort of things. But you know,
like we were talking about before, if someone is saying
(23:16):
they don't want to have kids, you want to have kids.
They don't like to travel. You like to travel. You
are very active. They're a couch potato. They like to
have guys' nights or guys weekends every weekend. You know
it depends on what's important to you. Some people like
I can't remember who I just read an actress she
(23:37):
just got married last year. I have to think of
her name. And she and her husband live in separate states. Huh,
and they love it and it's perfect for them. They
both have their own careers. He's maybe I don't remember
what he does, but anyway, they both have very significant
careers and they're great and when they come together, they
have the best time and they love each other. But
(23:58):
this is how their relationship works that model. It's not
me to judge what will or will not work for
someone else, but for me, like I could not have
been with someone that didn't want kids. That would have
been a hard note, even though again I wasn't someone
that was like dying to have children my whole life.
But I just felt like it was something I would do.
(24:18):
At twenty seven, you said, did you know what you're like,
what your non negotiables were? No, not at all. That's
why I'm saying it was a leap of faith. But
I think that wait, wait, wait, how long did you
wait till you got married? So we dated for a
year and a half, okay, got engaged and then we
were engaged for a year and then got married. But
remember he's ten and a half years older, so when
(24:40):
we got married, he was forty, so it was like
it felt okay. I think if he had been my
age or a couple years older, we probably would have
waited longer to get married. Yeah, that's what I think.
You learn a lot about I did all the things
you said we shouldn't be doing. I got married.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I got engaged three months into a relationship and married
six months and two.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
That and you were young. And when you're that age,
it wasn't that young, this old. This was in my
early forties. This was my current.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Oh oh, this wasn't you. But you're still together.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
I told you I like change. He doesn't like when
I say that because he gets little nervous. But we're
still together.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
How long have you live? Been together? Ten years? That's
a long time. It's funny, I interviewed. You want to
know what's crazy. I haven't had an alcohol week two
weeks right now, and I think it's given me brain fog.
Not drinking No, no normally or Norman Lear famous Norman Lear,
adorable who passed away last year. Anyway, Norman Lear who
(25:42):
you know who I don't know normally er he created
a million television shows all in the family, like a
million TV shows love him, like the King of the
sitcom and he lived to like one hundred and one. Anyway,
he was on the show and we were talking and
he was talking about his failed marriages and he was
worrying about one wife in particular. When I go, how
(26:04):
long were you married? And he said thirty years. I go,
that's not a failed marriage. That's thirty years is a
huge long life together. When marriage was created, people didn't
live past like eighteen. I don't think it was intended
for people to be together for fifty six years. It is,
you know, not the norm for people to be together.
What do you get divorced after three like they call
(26:27):
it a gray divorce. It's very I just ran into
someone last night who was telling me that his parents
are getting divorced after thirty years and they're in their seventies,
and it's called it's a new thing. They're called it
a gray divorce, like gray hair. Uh huh that older
people like they just they hit a wall and they're like,
or no, I'm done. Yeah, how many years I got
left by bye, not doing with you. I love them.
(26:51):
That's so funny. I feel bad for your husband now
I'm worried, but I really do like this great divorce thing. Yeah,
it's always on the table, you know, a few years.
But you're well, we'll never go great. Let's be honest,
that's not really in our future. I'm gonna go white, Betty, No,
you're a gorgeous blonde. Just keep it stop. So so
(27:13):
we I think it's a leap of faith. I think
that we've been lucky and we have really done a
good job of upping our game decade by decade as
it's been needed. And that's been so good for us
because neither of us are like therapy kids. Like we
(27:36):
didn't go to therapy, our parents didn't really talk to us.
We're like flying by the seat of our pants here.
But I think both kind of you know, reasonably intelligent people,
and him for sure, Hyer Transurgeon and we separately have
come to each other at different times and been like,
(27:57):
look what are we doing with this? This isn't working.
You know, what's going on with you? What's going on
with us. It's really important to date your spouse and
that continue to date Terry believes in going to sleep mad.
Some people don't. Some people want to fix it before
does he explain why. He thinks that's because he thinks
(28:17):
the end of the night, it's a bad idea. And
he's right, you're tired, especially you've had dreams or anything.
It's just it's not the time. Yeah, daytime is better,
you know, learn how to fight healthy. Yeah, and you
have to learn each other's fighting styles and you have
to meet in the middle somewhere. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
You learn so much about a person as the years tick.
You think you know everything and then you learn something new.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah. But I have to say, like, we're best friends.
We do you know, we've done We've written three books together.
We you know, it's our hobby. We've done TV shows together.
We love that we have product line together. We sell supplements.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
And you're like, relationship goals. Have you ever done like
a like a couple's retreat?
Speaker 1 (28:59):
No? No, like saying like bring back the fire? No? Nothing,
like like like's a host water go to to one?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
No?
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Would you know what we do? We just go to Paris? Oh? Yeah,
have some time together. Yeah. We're really good, really really
good at dating each other. And I have to say,
you know, I because I wasn't working for a bunch
of years when the kids were little. There was like
(29:28):
I mean, I did a couple of pilots that kind
of thing, but I wasn't like steadily working. There was
like a seven eight year period of time where I
was just home and he, you know, is a surgeon
and he was at work and like busy busy. So
except for that period of time, we've been really good
at taking time together. And because he wasn't that he's
(29:50):
not a baby person. Sweet, he's never don't want to make
himself like a bad dad, Like he's great now that
he goes he goes to babies. He hates children, but
now that the kids are older, like he's the best
and he's the best relationship with our kids, and he's
such a good connected dad of this age and up
that it's been so amazing. But I will tell you
(30:11):
he loves me, and I say this very confidently, more
than anyone in the world. And he would choose me
over the children. Like if he stops loving me, he's
not capable of loving because that's because that's him. That's
got to feel like such a good place to be
it's great and he has your back. He does you
(30:32):
give a lot of advice. Who do you go to
for advice? Him? I go to him. I'll talk to
my kids sometimes, depending on what the situation is. I
have some trusted people girlfriends in my life, depending on
what the situation is that I feel really comfortable. I
got burned a number of years ago. Look, relationships just
(30:55):
like anything, you know, it's they go up and down.
Terry and I don't fight about real things. I have
to say, well, bicker like most people bicker. But there's
been very few big, heavy things. But there was one
once years ago. We were kind of fighting about being
on a reality show because it took its toll, as
you know, and we had to have a come to
(31:15):
Jesus moment where I said to him, look, we either
figure out how to do this or we get off
this show because this it's not working. And during that
period of time, I talked to who I thought was
a girlfriend of mine about this, and she repeated things
I said and twisted him and you know, started a
narrative out there, and I was just like it, really
(31:36):
that broke me, and it was very hard for me
to open up to people about things like that.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
So I keep that tight tight. I think that's the
best way to keep it.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
My husband is ultimately like my best friend, and I
go to him and gives me a different perspective than
I have. He keeps me grounded, he tells, he calls
me out. Yeah, just yesterday.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, And it's hard to hear that stuff mind us too.
It's so annoying, and it's really annoying when they're right.
They're always right. Terry's always right. It's so annoying.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah, that's what they say about marriage though. It's like
holding that mirror up. They're the mirror.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
But then if you don't want to know, don't ask.
He'll say that to me too, But that I'll say
to him, And this is how we teach each other. Right,
I'll go listen right now. I don't want you to
fix it. I don't want to hear what you have
to say. Just let me vent. I need to cry.
I need to vent, and then you could do that.
Just give me a minute. Yeah, that's good communication. Yes,
you got to tell them they're not mind readers. If
(32:34):
you expect them to be mind readers, you both lose,
very very true.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
I think that it's important to maintain that independence from
your husband, even when you are as close. I think
it sounds like you're as close to your husband.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
I'm very good. Can't be codependent. No, no, I love
time away from him. Yeah, but I feel like that
happens with us. It happens sort of naturally, because of
the hour, because of the jobs. It just kind of happens.
But I have to say, I mean, I hate to
say these things out loud, because you know, when you
talk nicely about your relationship, it always goes to shit.
(33:09):
You always fight that night. If you say so, I'm
gonna just pooh poo poop. But yeah, but all I
have to say is, like, we'll go away together. Like
we were just in Paris dropping off my daughter at
school and we spent some time with her. Dropped her
at school. She's there for the semester, and when we
dropped her, we ended up we stayed a few extra
days because we love Paris. It's like our happy place.
(33:30):
So we stayed there a few days and we came home.
We fly home, we get home and we go out
to dinner together. Wow, Like we just you like to
be just like to be together. I like that.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Yeah, I'm kind of the same way you just said
your daughter is doing a semester in Paris. I had
my daughter do a semester in London, and I was
very difficult for me.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Why. I don't know, it's just smelled so far away. Well,
so my son, so the twins. So he my son
went to Italy first semester and she's in Paris now.
And at first I was like, could you coordinate to
be gone at the same time, right, But then I
realized I got to go to Europe all year and
I love it, and you know, again like finding joy
(34:13):
in things like we were talking about finding time for
classes or finding time for this. I will go to
Europe for the This is not relatable. I'm just gonna
say this before. This is not a relatable thing. When
I'm about to say, I apologize in advance. Ready, but
I will go to Paris for the weekend if I
have time for hits and giggles, if there's a thing
(34:36):
like my son was done with his tour in Italy
and it was my youngest son's birthday and I didn't
really concept think about the fact we were going for
a weekend, but I took them skiing in the French
Alps for four days and it was like a long
weekend and it was a long way to go, but
it was so great and the two of them bonding
and I went skiing for the first time and it
(34:58):
was fantastic. And so now my daughter there and she's like,
I'm lonely, I miss you, I'm homesick. I go I
may have a weekend. That's the thing.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Because you and I are both homemakers. Yes, we want
our homes to be the sanctuary for our family. It
sounds like we're very similar in respect. How what is
it like when your kids they don't want to leave?
It's so good where they were at home.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Yeah, I hear kids want to stay here the like
thirty Now. Honestly, I'm okay with it. I don't know.
I want them to be close, but not that close. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Well my daughter, yeah, well two of my girls are
still at home, and our house is small and the
bedrooms are all right together.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yeah. There is no privacy, privacy, yeah at all. And
they're cool with that. There.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I did that on purpose because they were teenagers. When
about the house UNDERSTI wanted to keep them close.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
You wanted to hear what was calling. I'm kind of
like I knew more. Yeah right, but I want you.
I like that you like change. It might be time
to move. I have thought about it, definitely thought about it.
Oh I love our conversation. Yeah too good.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I have to ask you one last question, Heather Deubro,
what was your last I choose me moment?
Speaker 1 (36:09):
I mean, Swiss alps ain't bad. Yeah, but that's not it.
I really think it's going back to vocal lessons, and
I would say just in the category I signed up for,
like a bunch of things, a bunch of classes where
I'm really choosing me. It's a really hard thing. I
(36:29):
wonder if you feel the same way, where you know
you want to put things out into the world to
make them real and put you know, manifest them. But
there's also a school of thought where don't tell people
what you're doing, show them when it happens. And I
feel like when I was younger, it was like, oh,
I don't want to tell anyone because it'll jinx it
or it'll this, or it all that kind of over that,
(36:50):
like I don't really care. Like I loved when I
told you that I'm doing this class you. You were
a little horrified and kind of excited at the same time. Right,
That's how I was. And I feel like i'm me
by pushing myself out of my comfort zone and into
these areas because again, we have nothing to lose. And
by the way, and you don't give a fuck, I
(37:10):
don't give a fuck. And if I could just toot
our horns any collectively, like we look really good and
we're talented, and we're thriving, and our audience watches TV,
so why not. Yeah, I mean you said it, it's
time to go back. I love that, right, So this
is a first step. And what's also really great is
(37:31):
remember when you're younger and you're like, oh shit, if
something doesn't happen in the next six months, I'm done.
Nothing will ever happen again. Where will I be? I'll
shrivel up and die. Now you're like, I'm already all
it doesn't matter. Three months, six months, next year, or
whatever it happens, it happens. It's fine, exactly. Yeah, Oh
you're set. You're just in a great place in your life.
I can feel it. Yeah, so are you. It's so good.
I love it. Thank you so much, Thank you for
(37:53):
having me. I loved meeting you. I mean, well, now
you really know, and yeah, I know you so well.
I love it.
Hosts And Creators
Tori Spelling
Jennie Garth
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.