Dominique Wilkins Dishes On Evolution of The NBA, Old School Fights, Magic & Bird | ALL THE SMOKE - All The Smoke

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Jack Good first day water Pump Gala, Dominique Wilkins. I
told you, I even said during the interview. You know me,
I don't really fumble my words too often, but what
I think what he meant to the game maybe the most.
I wouldn't say disrespect, that's the wrong word. Underrated, What
is the word I'm looking for? Underappreciated?

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Get anywhere? Was has Dominique fires outside goes after a.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Ten years of averaging twenty five plus a game, was
in a nasty Eastern Conference, had to face Isaiah, had
to face MJ, had to face Patrick Ewan, had to
face Reggie Miller Bird. But I think he's someone that
people don't understand how talent he was.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
I think everyone thinks he was.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
A dunker, but if you look at the way he
scored the basketball.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Gave the most work.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
I think they said we found out what was it
that Yester? We found him and MJ were the only
two players that average against each other.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Yes, sir, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
And they had sixty battles and forty battles and fifty battles.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
And Dominique won a lot of those games.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
And then also you know his upbringing you know the
KKK burning crosses in his front Paris yep, born overseas,
playing with his brother, the legendary dunk contests. Uh Man,
that was a really that was one of my favorite.
I mean we had three read episodes, but that was
probably my favorite episode of the day because.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
They were young, were just such a great story teller.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
If you think about the first you guys will see,
but the first ten minutes, man, he's talking about his
bowels of Jordan, he's talking about his battles with birds,
then he's talking about his battles with Mattic Johnson.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
And to me as a fan growing up in that time,
and it didn't get no better, right, So make.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Sure you guys check out this Dominique Wilkins episode, Welcome

(02:03):
Back All the Smoke, La Jack. We started off with
two good ones and it continues to get better.

Speaker 2 (02:09):
It's a legendary day man, super legendary man.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Uh someone who we grew up watching very few times.
That might lost for words, but I'm really excited because
I've always been just such a huge fan of who
you are and always thought that you never got the
respect that you deserve. Talking about that, we don't get
down to that too. But man, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
You thank always good to see you got Jacksonville, somebody
who gave me some game early in my career.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
When I went to Atlanta after the championship, I was
down and out, and you said a lot of things
to me that you were were doing that time. They
gave me confidence and and and and didn't kill my
confience when San Antonio don't wanted to pay me. So
I never told you thank you for what you what
you meant to me. You really helped me my coming
out of that championship. You had to get my confidence
back up, So I thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Oh, no problem, man, it was a pleasure of mine. Man,
you know we go back, Yes, sir, I got that
little history. Yes, sir, I want to start before you start. Man,
how come both of y'all sitting and hiding me? Now
I know both of y'all ain't just that much tall
in me so low. I mean, I'm just saying we
wanted to be Yeah, yeah, that's good. I just I
just want to throw that out there. Yeah, okay, now

(03:12):
we can we can finish a conversation.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
You and I actually started coming off the elevator and
we were talking obviously about the Olympic team winning gold,
and we you know, we were talking about our thoughts and
how the team was put together and how Tatum didn't play.
But what was your take on on this year's Olympics
and you know, the team winning goal.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
I mean, even though you know, wins and wins win,
but I thought the mix wasn't the best mix because,
like you brought up, Tatum didn't even play in one
of the game. Yeah, they won two games. He didn't play,
you know, either hurt or just didn't fit and hurt
the role that needed to be played on that team.
So it was kind of that was kind of strange

(03:55):
for me. But at the end of the day, they won,
but I know he wasn't happy. Ye, any White in
any road, dead white can play.

Speaker 3 (04:02):
I'm pretty sure Tatum Blank, you know, very white didn't
carry that team to the championship.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Tatum did. But so just make it make sense. We
got common sense first team. Yeah, that didn't make much
sense to but you know, you know, the critics are
all say, hey, they want, they want, you know, and
and they right, But when you make a team like that,
I think everybody have a deserver right to play right.

(04:30):
You know, he didn't very much. So I was trying.
I think a lot of people are trying to figure
out why he didn't play, especially coming off a championship.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, and if you know basketball, I mean, the only
person that was first Team All NBA the last three years,
the only person on the team. And there's great there there,
but Jason Tatum has definitely paid his dues. And and
I was disappointed overall because you know, I've been a
fan of Steve Kerr and you know, obviously coaching, it's
tough when you.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Got on the US team. You know, everybody that's on
the team deserves to play, no question. You know, we
didn't care about who played minutes. It wasn't about the minutes.
It was just us coming together and everybody having the
chance to say, hey, I was a part of the victory.
I contribute. You know, even though you want what does
what is Tatum really saying to himself?

Speaker 1 (05:12):
You know, I think it's like whether the part of
U next year Jayden Brown got you know, he didn't
make it. Tatum didn't really get to play like they
might have really broke up a monster.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
And so you know, and thedn a lot of people say, well,
you know, why is it an issue? Well, you know,
winning is everything. We all know that. But at the
same time, it's like, you know, it worked hard to
get to this respect there, so you know I earned
my right to play, but for whatever reason, that didn't happen.
I know Joe Missoula party sitting at home. Yes, I'm

(05:43):
glad y'all doing them like this. They're finna come back
and destroyed. That's the other part. That's the other party. Uh.
You know I can't wait for the seasons. Yes, both
my boys mad because ask competitors. And I don't care
what anybody said. That goes to your mind, question that
goes from it. You can paint it at however you want,

(06:03):
that works on your psyche.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
We know Jason Tatum and I know it's Pops, and
I know Jason Tatum is sitting at home. I can't
wait in the gym right now. This is dedicated to
all y'all. And you know number of times where I
felt disrespected.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
You know you dealt with it more than anybody. Let's
just say that, and it just fueled me and I said, whoever,
I'm going against this next game in trouble, They better
put on their hard had come coming. But that was
just our mentality, you know, you know, because a lot
of times, man, what you do, your actions speaks louder words.

(06:39):
You don't have to say anything. And and I've seen it,
and so I know how how you feel. But you know,
we can, we can. We can talk about something for
the moment, but we'll come back to that. I mean, yeah,
go ahead, you go.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
If you go down and dunkele bar and had a
rim shaking for the next three possessions, you ain't got
to say nothing.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
That's what you used to do. The thing that I
enjoyed the most. And somebody asked me this question earlier today, said,
you know, what is your favorite plays? I said, well,
I can't really say what my favorite play was, but
I can tell you what my favorite situation was. Is
when big men try to block my shot. Man, I

(07:15):
tried to throw it so hard. I was trying to
break the onn to tear them from trying to again.
If you throw it down the big guy real hard
the first time, he's gonna be thinking about that next one.
And then you can lay it up, you know, you know,
make a pass, whatever you need to do, to get
the bucket, but it puts that fear in his mind.

(07:38):
But then you have them guys who like the block
shots don't never they paint freaks, Oh man, love it.
But those are the best situations for me when I
can create an advantage for myself or for the team.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
Before you start this and the memory of our great
friend Pat McAfee passed me, of course, thank you.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
And before we really get through it, I have a question.
Was your curl wet or dry?

Speaker 2 (08:11):
You know what? The same thing? It looked. It looked wet,
but it was dry.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
You have the motherfucking Jerry curl dripped like my pops had.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Look wet, but it was dry. Look wet, but it
was dry. That I didn't put up the wet look
but the dry but it was drying. Was getting Nexus,
a product called Nexus. This is wet. Okay. We was
in Atlanta at the same time, but it was just wet.

(08:45):
Min was just some moist. It wasn't wet. You know,
that's a difference. You know, it wasn't dripping, It wasn't dripping.
It wasn't dripping. It wasn't dripping.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
But that but that was your your your your high
top flat, flat top curl.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
That was the ship that with that was that was
That was it. That was It wasn't It wasn't. Man.
You ain't see like white spots on none of that
around my hairline. You know it was moist. You know
you see why. That's why ain't got nothing now, you know, you.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Still got something a lot like my dad had that crow.
He's been balled for the last twenty years. All the chemicals.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah, yeah, you know what you know, you know that
was That was style was then? You know, that was it.
You know, you know the funny thing because we went
from the real skinny suits to the to the back
yeah backs. You know a lot of young guys they
think they invented it. Carry Carrious a bottom walkers from Carried. Yeah.

(09:41):
It was a couple of stores around the country that,
you know, different ones that everybody. Yeah, you got you
have place in Detroit, you had to place some Philly.
You know, everybody went to the same thing. What's that
They had all the styles and the shoe guy, what's
the shoe place in Atlanta?

Speaker 1 (09:56):
Freeman Freemans, I mean Freemans, not Freemans.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
I won't let go of them old shoes though, you
still have the old shoes. Yeah, I go from I
haven't been in a while, but I go from Peck.
That's where I got my shoes from. Yeah. Yeah, let's
get to it.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Only the eighth player to average twenty five points ten
consecutive seasons, nine time All Stars, seven time All NBA
retire when you retired, the seventh leen score at the
time twenty over twenty six thousand points. But again that's
something we touched on, the credit and the respect because
you were going head to head with MJ a lot

(10:30):
of times but got the better of him a lot
of times. Yeah, he was a bad man, he was good.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
You know what. I found this out early, I would
say about a couple of years ago, and didn't realize
that he and I was only two fold of the
NBA history that average thirty against one another our whole career,
for a whole career. Really, you had to, man, I
had to get thirty against him because he was he

(10:59):
and that on there too, he was man.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
And you shot nearly fifty percent while doing it by
after thirty, and that's a lot of things.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
People don't realize the efficiency that I scored with that
didn't take thirty shots and May twelve, you know, and
especially in that era with the physicality and you're getting
hit in touch and still they able to be that efficient. Yeah,
and it says a lot.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, but yeah, MJ was do you have a battle
that comes to mind when you I mean, obviously you
guys played a ton of times.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
I've said this many times, you know, people heard me
say this. I think I scored fifty seven in Atlanta
and I didn't play the fourth court. And we went
back to Chicago a little while later and we're in
the locker room suiting time. MJ walks down locker room
shuting time. I'm saying, came in your Yeah, I'm just

(11:52):
coming out, Like what are you coming in there for?
Like he come in the training room with something weaker.
He walks by me, walks by Kevile to get the
Randy Whitman, taps him one the ass. He said, lace
him up, it's going to be a long night, and
turns to walk out, and I ain't know what to say.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
I'm shocked.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
I was like, well, you tell that something Scotti pipping,
I'm gonna kick his ass. I didn't know what to say. Man,
you know, I'm like, I'm blown away, man, he had
sixty that night? What you do? We we won the
game where ye had sixty that night. No, I had
a hell of a game, but he had sixty, bro

(12:26):
And when it wasn't like, no, like it was a
hard sixty either. The way he was scoring, he was
like he was on the miss. I think he was
like pissed off that I had fifty seven, you know,
a few days before, and he went crazy.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
But it said it loud enough so you could hear
it too.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yeah. Yeah, And so it's it really set up the
games we played against each other game with our career,
you know, game I'll have forty three here forty one,
or he'll have forty six and I have forty. I mean,
it was go like that all the time. I'll back
you know. He was a hard man to beat. That
That team was so good. That team was that was

(13:06):
That team was made up of a bunch of great,
great role players. And I think Scottie Pippen I have
a lot of respect for. I think he's one of
the greatest role players they ever played this game. Yeah,
he probably the best, Yeah, they ever played this game.
And so he was a great compliment to Jordan, It's
so hard for a lot of players, especially in Mike's era,

(13:27):
to give him his props. Why is it so easy
for you to give him his props? And if you
ain't ever face them, you don't understand. If you ain't
ever faced Mike on, you can't make that comment. Yeah, man,
I played against some of the most hard nosed, talented
players ever played this game. He was a phenomenon and

(13:47):
he had attitude go with it. I mean he was
when you played against Mike. His eyes were bloodshot red
every game, like he was possessed. And I just sitting
there and said, I got to go work tonight. Jesus
is coming, you know. And so he and I, you know,
we had so much respect. But I'm gonna tell you

(14:07):
when I knew how good he was. When we was
in college. I was a junior, he was a freshman.
Were playing Carolina and the first time James Worthy and
I had a chance to play against one another since
high school. In high school, we we came out the
same area but never played against others. So that Carolina
game we played, were going back and forth or the
first player of the game, I went up and I

(14:30):
caught you know worthy finger roll and I wanted to,
you know, set the tone. I threw it in like
six rowd in the stands, you know this goal, We're
gonna go, We're gonna come. And the game was back
and forth the whole game close worthy with having the
hell of a game. I was having the hell of
a game. In the last two minutes of the game,
a young kid named Michael Jordan took over by himself,

(14:53):
a freshman. I said, I was like, who is this
kid right here?

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Man?

Speaker 2 (15:01):
And so I knew I knew this he was going
to be a great pro. I didn't know he gonna
be that good of a problem, but that kind of
set the tone for me and my thoughts of what
I saw. And because, like I said, if you hadn't
played against Mike, you have no clue. You have no
clue how good he is. You have to be there.

(15:21):
What about Larry, that's another guy. You know. Larry and
I we played in each other like twelve thirteen years.
We never sure can never spoke, really never mean as
a great players back then, you didn't want another great
player to get that close to you, So we none
of us liked each other, never spoke. I didn't speak
to him for thirteen years straight. I love Larry even

(15:42):
more here and that hey, another guy, because if you
don't have any idea how good he was, if you
hadn't played against him, that shit talking too right, Hey, listen,
first time I played against him, I'm a rookie. I'm
glad to be in the league. You know, I'm the
Boston Garden and I'm guarding him right first played again,
he said, I don't know while you got your guarding
me homes Huh. He shoots a three and I wasn't mad.

(16:06):
He made the three. I said, but this something. It's
called me homes. And so the next play, you know
I'm coming. I'm passed. So he comes out, he shifts
to his right and I jumped. I said, got him,
and I'm pumping it by my head and I banged
it on him right and he on the ground. He
fired me, and I'm pointing and he said, hey, look,
I'm like what he said. I like you you got balls.

(16:26):
He said, I'm still getting thirty on your yesterday he
got about thirty seven. But I wasn't mad because I'm
paying my dudes. That's Larry. Yeah, But that was the
only time he ever talked trashing. He respected you because
he knew I was gonna keep coming. You know. He
and I again never talked, and until we retired, and
he had an interview. They was talking about trash talking

(16:47):
and he said, I never said things to offend anybody.
He said, you take Dominique and he said, I said
some things in NAK and he would just smile at me,
but he understood what that smile was about. Yeah, he said,
he just came to play. He said, I have more
respect for him than any player I ever played against.
I never knew he felt that way, and that was
a major, major respect. That was one of the few

(17:08):
times he has ever said anything to me. Now you know,
today we're friends because we're not competitors anymore. Yeah, and
so I've always you know, he talked about Larry. I
give him the utmost respect because of who he was
to play again, and I'm talking about guys that if
you hadn't played against him, you have no idea because
they take your heart. Thank you tough, They take your heart.

(17:30):
He's six ten small forward. His skill set, first of all,
he had a basketball IQ off the chart. His skill set,
he had very few weaknesses, and he can beat you anyway,
be the passing, scoring, rebounding. He just knew how to play.
A very smart player. And it's not a lot of

(17:51):
guys that had that type of basketball IQ along with
skill that beat you like that. And so when I
played against him, I had to bring my a game
every night. And when we played in one of the
greatest games, in the seventh game in Boston Garden where
he guaranteed to win because we blew our opportunity in
Atlanta to beat them to go to the Eastern Gardens finals.

(18:13):
And so as the article came out, this another crazy
thing man. So he said, Atlanta blew the opportunity. I'm
guaranteeing a win next game. So we come out of
the locker room in Boston, so I stopped the hallway.
I said, look, we're gonna win this goddamn game. I said,
if you ain't ready to fight, you ain't ready to
go to war, don't come out here. I said, whoever

(18:33):
guard me, I gonna have a long fucking night. Unfortunately,
he was telling his teammates the same thing down and
the game was pretty close, and I went out for
blow in the third quarter. Larry On they had twelve
points in the third quarter, and I remember Kevin Willis
reached it across from me and pointing at Larry, but

(18:54):
he said all that this somebody scored anymore tonight. I'm like,
what are you doing? Don't awake a sleeping giant. Were
he end up with thirty four at night? Twenty fourth
quarter and we had that famous shootout between us and
he And now that fourth quarter this day, I'd be mad.
I'm mad at Kevin, said, Kevin Man, why you just
just then't sit don't say them alone. But it was

(19:14):
guys like that, and he's one of the guys of
many in the league, and that era took things personal.
If you said something that wasn't they they you know,
they didn't say nothing to you, but they showed it
to you on the court. I love playing with guys
like that and against guys like that, because because the
only way you can measure your greatness, you got to

(19:36):
play against the greatest.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Now, what about I mean, obviously you didn't get to
play them much because in the Western Conference, but Magic.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
I play against him a lot. And when he talked
about point guard's greatest point guards ever? Okay, what is
your real definition of that.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
Term.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
To me, the greatest point guard because of what he did.
And first of all, at a conference in that Western Conference,
and they had some monsters out there and they dominated,
dominated them, and Magic Johnson bought a different level of
basketball to La Yeah, that they had never seen. It

(20:14):
was that showtime Lakers. It's all magic, I mean, magic magic.
I'm tell you what. Magic. Magic's funny and very strategic.
I'm gonna say it because I'm an old man. Now
I'm married, So tell you what he did my rookie year.
So we check in the hotel and I've been in
my room about thirty seconds. I had my bag, so
you know, I didn't need anybody bring my bag. So

(20:36):
on our here knock at the door and I look
at the people. It's tall lady with brown hair green.
I'm like, what the hell is this a door? Right? Door? Right?
And she said compliments some urving magic ter scared the
hell out of me.

Speaker 4 (20:50):
After no, you didn't let her in know Sir Jack's room.
I know, but I knew what he was doing.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
Yeah, magic Magic was he was funny. But you know,
magic kind of helped discover me when I came out
of college even though I was third of overall pick
I traveled with them in the summer before I even
played a single game. So I played with all the
best players in summer, Magic, Moses, Bird, Doctor j We

(21:25):
were travel all over the country. Really yeah. We were
like pick up, yeah, okay. And so when I came
to Lea, like it's easy, played with the best players,
you know. And then later we got Jordan who came in.
He was he would play with us, and uh, you know,
it was just so many guys called mylone stocked and
everybody was playing, you know, and I ain't talking about
just run up down and I'm talking about going at Yeah,

(21:48):
we were hooping, but that's what made the game fun, man,
you know. So hey, I was really you know, privileged
to play against guys like that.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
You're on record saying that the eighties was the East.
Eighties Eastern Conference was the best conference ever. Eighties Eastern
Conference against the two thousand Western Conference. That's gonna look
the eighties Eastern Conference against the two thousand Western Conference.
A tough boy, Chris Webber.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
There have some big boys, k Dirk the Whiskey, some
big Kobe they had that that would be a great
match up. That would be a great match up. Yeah,
I think y'all have more guards they had. We had
a lot of guards, but we have we have some
forwards though, Yeah, we had some forwards. I ain't have
Tim Duncan, Kevin garn that Chris Webber Wilder is none

(22:42):
of that. We ain't care. We don't care about none
of that I know about. But anyway, anyway, you know
you're talking about doctor J and myself, you know, kings Man.
Let me tell you something. Nobody ever talking about this guy.
Nobody ever talked I Look, I never feared anybody I've
ever played. Again, that's the only man that ever schedule

(23:03):
hell out of me. I can't because you know why,
because he's getting forty eight ship you can do about it.
Ain't nothing you can do about it. I used to
He was the only guy I couldn't sleep the night
before I had to play against because he's getting forty
He could score anywhere and anyway. And so coach you said,
when your guarding him, but meet him a half court.
I'm not meeting him at half court. But I found

(23:25):
very quickly what he meant. Because you didn't meet him
a half court. You were like that, he was gone.
I remember when I played against him. It was one
game and like I said, I just couldn't sleep. So
I just I said, I said, I know he gonna
get forty. I said, so I'm gonna get forty. And
we just called a watch because I ain't killed myself
trying to chase this guy because you can't. You can't
stop him. So when we went in the Hall of Fame,

(23:47):
when he went to hall, he asked me, whatuld do
something like me. You never spoke to me. We had
no type of friendship. But I was privy. I was
honored because that's b K man. I said, before we
go up the steps, man, and be honest. I said, Man,
I ain't never fear anybody. I said, you don't even
guy have a scared ship out of me. And he's laughing.
I said, man, why are you laughing? He said, because

(24:09):
you scared ship it out of me too.

Speaker 4 (24:11):
Yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
I'm like yeah, yeah, that was good. Yeah yeah. And
I was like, yeah, you know, my chests got big.
But it just shows you that none of those guys
let you get that close to him when we was competitors, man,
And that's what made the game more fun, and it
made you compete even harder because you never knew what
was going on this here. You knew he was going
to come at you, and you had to guard that

(24:35):
guy too. You know, I'm not gonna guard the power
forward because they had a license kick your ass. I'm
I'm not playing hints position. So you know, we had
enough problem at that small forward position, and we had
a lot of me and another guy you talked about,
Marco Guire, big draws man, big draw he was on

(24:56):
the table man. He was a load to deal with.
You know, to me, he's a Hall of Famer to me.
Take us back.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
You're sitting in the room table five guys from the
eight is your era, talk about the evolution of the game.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
How would they go? You know what we would give.
We give all errors their respect because we had to
learn from somebody, right, So we learned from the guys
before us, and so we always appreciate basketball and every
we talked about it. But the one thing we will
say is that it's their time. We've had our time.
But I hate when they tried to ship on us

(25:30):
choose their point. They don't have to do that, you know,
because you know greatest great don't care what are you,
but you know, don't use path area to elevate yourself
because we never did that to guys like look, I'm
never gonna say better than Chamberlain or Russell or I
was just I was just with Oscar, and like, you know,

(25:52):
we appreciated you guys because we learned from y'all, you know,
and so because we like anytime I get the chance
to talk to guys before me, man, it's I'm like
a kid in the candy store. It's a pleasure for me.
And I've never thought that I was bigger than the game,
because nobody's bigger than the game, because it's always one

(26:13):
coming behind you, you know, so no one person is
going to be bigger. You can be. You can be
an iconic figure of the game, in which we have
a lot of guys who fits that bill. But you know,
the game going to keep evolving with or without you.
Do you feel that your error gets enough credit for
what's the players and how they make it?

Speaker 3 (26:34):
Monday today was one million dollar Saturday when you nineteen
ninety nine is twelve million dollars.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
And hey, look God bless them. Get all you can get,
you know, you know, because you have kids to come out.
I have a son come there. I want him to
experience that. But if I tell you what I made
as a third overall pick, you go, you laugh, you know,
But that's just the way it was. You made money.
I made three hundred and twenty five. Topic, that's crazy, right,

(27:00):
you know. But Patrick Ewing came and I think a
year or two later, I think it was two years later,
and they got that thirty million dollar contract, which was
unheard of. And I told the team, I said, y'all
call me when you're serious. I ain't coming back to
three hundred and twenty five. Y'all call me. So they said, look,
we got a new deal for you. I said, cool, okay,
you know what's what's happening. They said, we gave John

(27:22):
Contact thirteen million. We're gonna keep you fourteen. I'm like,
I'm asking thirty heavision four.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
You're crazy.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
I'm like, I'm not good. I said, I take it.
They take it. They take them deals off the table
back then, you know, yes. But you know what, though,
I love that part of the evolution of the game,
how guys get what they deserve, and you know, quite frankly,
it's an even playing not quite an even playing field,

(27:51):
but you get a chance to you know, prosper from
you know, the league and owners and what they are
able to pay. So yeah, I'm for the guy. Get
all whatever you want to get what you can get.
I want to ask you this house question. How do
you feel about you? Boy? Murray? Love? I love to
do Johntey Murray. You know, he was good for us,
you know, but you know, sometimes things that don't work,

(28:13):
you know. And I thought we had really the most
dynamic backcourt in the league, but sometimes they don't work
that way, you know. And so you know, Trey is
a guy, the big personality on our team, and he's
a guy who's that's your leader, and that's your leader,
and that's the guy that is gonna hopefully get you

(28:34):
to that next level. Not having a great show on
in summer league. A lot of people know how your
draft pick. He's young, man, I mean, this kid nineteen. Yeah,
and he's skilled, Yeah, he's skilled. But you know you
got to be able to give him time. You know,
give him time. He's gonna he's gonna be just fine.
Believe me. Yeah, he's gonna be just fine.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
I have a question. Obviously, you coming in the league,
being the third pick, playing and then being in the
office talking about the game. I feel like everything now
they're always gonna base things on potential, but I feel
like now, more than ever, the draft is hopefully they
will do this instead of guys really coming in and
making an impact.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
It's a gamble. It's a big gamble because as players,
we know if a guy can play it that right.
Because no matter what type of personality you bring to
help grow your team, it's hard for them to know
more than what we know because we've done this our
whole live and so I can tell you right up
front after watching a guy a couple of games, if

(29:33):
he's ready to help you or he's not the right mote.
And we've seen that time and time again. But I
think you know, the teams that win early are the
teams that get guys that contribute now instead of later.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
A lot of people don't know this. Everybody think your
old country bumpkin, But you was born in Paris. Yeah,
your mother was a superwoman. One of the eight kids.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
How was that? It was great? Man? My sister and
I know we were the first two, and so both
of us was born and so born France and I
lived in France five years before we moved to the
United States. My sister actually spoke fluent French. You I
spoke it too, but you know what, if you don't
speak it, you lose it. I even took five years
of French too. But if I'm around that, I understand it.

(30:19):
It was really great from two parts, one to see
the French team, you know, get to the gold medal
round and the other part, you know, do you ask
you know, you're always pulling for us to to you know,
pull it out. So it was it was it was
a love love type of event from me watching that.
So but yeah, I go back to Paris quite a bit.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
Would you would have played they would actually play with
France then that she was born there, back.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
When we were doing a lot of pride, a lot
of pride.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
If I wouldn't be I'd have really thought, I really
thought about it being a part of Dream Team, and
I mean that was that was great. That was great, man.
So you would never you never could duplicate that or
take anything over that.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Talk to us about that time though, because that was
kind of the shift in the game. You guys took
the world by storm and the world took notes.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Well, you know what we better. We wanted to send
a message to the rest of the world that y'all
had no shot, no shot, no shot, no shot, and
no one came within twenty five or thirty of us.
You know, we blow with blue blue with everybody out.
And you know we had Sean Kemp and Derrick Coleman.
There was two rebels on our team and they were man.
They they was relentless, you know. I mean, guys would

(31:33):
try to shake our head, shake your hand. They're like, man,
we beat you like that and you want to shake
my hand. I'm like, man, come on, I said, come on, guys.
But you know, we had guys with personality. But we
had some balls on that team. You had shot yeah
Lownes on morning. You had you know, Isaiah Thomas who
really didn't play because it was hurt. And then you
had you know, Reggie Miller, Mark Price, Larry Johnson. You know,

(32:00):
we had some We had a player, Steve Smith was
also on. So what was I mean?

Speaker 1 (32:04):
Obviously we saw the greatness on the corp, but what
were practices like where were the bus rides hanging in
the hotel.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
Was that Like, we had Don uh Nelson coach Nelly,
so it was a free frolls, which just a hell.
I was like, man, look, I'm one of the older
guys on this team. You know, I don't want to
work that hard. But we were so ready to play
after those our practices. Man used to see Aliones one

(32:30):
morning and shot going ahead. He I mean it was
like they didn't like each other, and they might didn't
at that time, you know, but our practices was worse
than the game because practices and always believed us practice
should always be harder thany game. The game should be
easy after rewards, it's that's the reward. But it of
course it's changed now, it's not like that.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
Sean Kim told the story how Nelly made him celebrate
after after done by grabbing his grabbing his crotch.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
You remember that. Yeah, a whole bunch of people that one.
But you know, Don was a players coach. Yes, sir,
that's Mike Donal. You know he'll run you to death,
but you know what, he'll turn around and say, hey,
let's go, let's go we have dinner. That was nothing.
Was that a personal man, but he gonna he's gonna
work you.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
He's gonna work And I'm glad we talked the back end.
We got the cool now, Nelly, we got crazy.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
We got.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
We would come to practice either with crown or coffee
in this cup you just didn't.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Know what, and a little dog and then let his
dog shipped in the middle of the court during practice. Oh,
I'll tell you we had better tell you we had.
We had. We had quite a few coaches because most
of my career played for Mike for Teller, Mikey, and
Mike was a little general and Mike with man. Le'm
gonna tell you he would if the players are in situations,

(33:51):
he's in the middle of it. He gonna go down
with his players, you know. And he's the one guy
you're gonna do it his way and you ain't gonna
do it at all. Because I was a guy. At times,
I didn't think he liked me man, because my name
was either some little bitch or motherfucker. But I remember
one time I had twenty three at half and I
had seven rebounds. We were down nine to Chicago. So

(34:12):
come in the locker, who he says, Nikki, you think
you're better than everybody else? We got a hair cross.
You ask, can't nobody talk to you? He said, let
me tell you something.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
You ain't that shit.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
I was like, huh what I said? You see what
I did halftime? I said, we down eight nine points,
we still got a chance. He said, shit to me,
you ain't done nothing. And so I said, you know what, Mike,
f you he the nofolk you? I said no. It
went on for like too many, everybody crying, laughing, right,
you know, and finally everybody walked out of the locker
room and he grabbed me out of the last one

(34:44):
to leave. He said, okay, cut the ship. If I
can talk to you like that and at times be little,
you can't nobody else say it's all anybody? And I
was like, wow, okay, I said, okay, I got I
get it. And from that point we never had another argument.
He would he would say some stuff to me and
like a lot of guys couldn't take. But I knew

(35:05):
where he was going with the reason. Yeah. And so
you know, good coaches, man, they find ways to motivate
you through other means and to your best player a
lot of time. So I learned a lot from that.
Dominating in high school seventy nine and one in North Carolina.
I was that man that was that was out saying
to me, you know when I went when I went there,

(35:27):
before I went there, you know, they will always get
to the state championship. We'll get close to the state,
but they never won. And so when I got there
when I was sixteen, and I got discovered on the
playground that that next day the guy who got discovered
on the black time. And this is crazy because I
saw my best friend Rob somebody in Baltimore and I

(35:51):
told my mom. I said, I'm leaving the city. I'm
never coming back. I left weeks later and my brother said,
this is with Nick gone. And so I left and
went to Carolina on that grand bus.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
Family out there.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
I had family, but I didn't know where I was
going to live really because all my grandparents aunts lived
in Carolina. And so I get off the bus. I
see these kids playing. I go over and I started
playing basketball with them. And after I finished, I'm sitting
on the ground. This oldest gentleman can say, hey, son,
you living. I was like, I'm not sure yet. He said, well,
where you're going living? I was like, I don't know.

(36:22):
I'm not sure, and he looked and he said, come
come go with me. And I don't know why I
went with him, but I went to his house. He
showed me a bedroom, show me the kitchen. He said,
you can have all this only trade office. He had
to play for my high school team. He was a
high school coach. All those players I was playing the
front with his players on that high school team.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Get the fresh off the bus, fresh off no plan.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
I had no plan at all. And he said god.
I said, okay. I lived with him my first year,
and then after that I lived with my grandparents. But
we was We won. We had an undefeated season. My
first year. We went to the semi final States and
we lost by I think to a team we beat
by thirty the regular season. And he said, if we

(37:04):
stick together the next two years, we won't lose another game.
And we ran off fifty six in a row in
two years, big back to back stay titles in North Carolina,
which is hard to do. You know. I played against
Mitchell Wiggins and Buck Williams, all those guys in high school.
But that's where it started for me. My high school
coach man taught me that, you know, there's nothing you

(37:26):
can't accomplish if you believe.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
Oh, this is the coach he was talking about before
we got the teacher I could teach you how to
be a man before.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Okay, yeah he was. He was. You know, you see
these flyer metric things that they do in the day's game, right,
So he used to have a bench about this why
this high, and we used to have to jump across
this bench without stopping fifty times and if you hesitate,
you got to do it all over again. He would
do that to help with your timing and explosion. You know,
I'm telling you. You don't realize how much that helped

(37:55):
us without without timing, you know, and balance. He was.
He's the greatest coach I ever had. And I don't
care what level. He's the greatest coach I've had. So
you de committed from n C State to go to Georgia.
You know that story. Yeah, you have to deal with
some racist people burn across in the yard and all that.
It's a long story, but I get it short. Well.

(38:17):
First of all, if you're a great player in the
state of North Calinda in those days, you don't leave
the a c C. It was like against the law
to leave the A C C. And so I signed
eleven tenth with North Carolina State, and you know, it
was pretty much decided. That's why I'm going. I'm going
there with Wittenberg and Lowe and Guy thorough Bailey, all
of us squad man, we had a squad. Then the

(38:40):
University of Georgia came out of nowhere, and you know today,
you know you had the ni O getting a little
bit of bad give me a little bag, but anyway,
low bag. But that was part of it. But the
thing is that I didn't want to be compared to anyone,

(39:01):
you know, by going to University Georgia, was no one
to compare it to. So five other high school all America,
we all decided to go there together. So when I
made that decision, all health prokelues. I got all f's
on my transcript, paint pulled on my mom car, and
I had a cross burning in my yard and I
got arrested. The next day. I'm coming out of a store,

(39:23):
I think it was Sears or something like that, and
I had this back there had eight track tapes. Man,
they had CDs. So I'm coming out of store and
I just paid for it, right, and I had three
thousand dollars in my pocket. Gentlemen said, we got a wrested.
We saw you steal at tape. I'm like what, I
was like, why would I steal a three dollars tape?
I got three thousand dollars my pocket. You kidded me,

(39:45):
He said, we got arresture. So they called a police.
Police came with my uncle. It was my cousin who
was a police force, and he said, we know what's
going on, so we're gonna go down a police station.
We'll work it out. Didn't He said, you know what
I'm gonna take home. We're gonna pack up the house
and we're getting you, the whole family out tonight. So
we left at twelve o'clock at night. The whole family

(40:06):
moved out of it, and I didn't go back for
thirty years until the statue got unvailed. Wow, coach passed.
That's so I've stayed away that long. I never went back,
you know, And it's still this day. It bothers me
because you know, that town was unknown before I got there.
But it's still a part of my history. So every

(40:28):
now and then I'll make a trip back there. But
that was tough man. The racism was real because we
had a white prim and black prom when I was
in high school, white and we had our prom at
the recreation center. They had theirs at the high school.
I never went on the man, I'm not going to
that shit, you know, and we can't be together. The
only thing that leveled the racism in North Carolina with sports.

(40:51):
One of my teammates was a white guy named Bobby Mouth.
He and I the very close friends to this day,
and that's the one thing he said, this is the
only thing that level the racism in our town. It's
basketball and sports, you know, because our fans will follow
us all over the state. When we played, the town
would be empty. But we came to social issues, it

(41:13):
was different problem. Yeah, it was a problem.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
And then when you decided to leave, it was really different.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
When I left went to Georgia, they said, well, you know,
we thought we could have him for another four years,
have me. You don't own me. Yeah, you know, but
that's what they thought, you know. But thirty years to
go back, man, that was that's crazy. The only evening
went back because my coach passed and I said, you
know what if the mayor of that town can drive

(41:39):
all the way to Atlanta and view my film. I
can go back, and that's the reason why I went back.
How proud are you being at Georgia alumna Anthony Ell was, Oh, yeah,
that's that's my guy. I was like a mentor to him,
you know, when he was coming up, and it's great
to see the level of success he's achieved so far.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
So people don't know that you and stead Smith uh
or instrumental and raising him, having a lot to do
with him.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
You don't know that because you know, he was a
kid that his family earlier he.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
Lost the family, so he moved around a different place.
But and I understand you know how he felt and
what he went through because I went through that. And
so to see how he you know, persevered through all
those disappointments and became what he is now. Man, it's
a testament to his will and his determination to be
successful and show him that hey, I can do this.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
Because he had every reason stacked up against him not
to make it and to give up everything.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
Makes sense why he's so spoken, funny and well, because
he's probably did a lot of crying. That's how you
I used to you know, too. I used to make
people laugh because I would cry all the time. And
when I get a chance to be funny or be outgoing,
that was me kind of hide and.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Pain back in the day. So you're doing yeah, you
know exactly what we're talking about. You know, with him,
you know, growing up in the tough areas and then nobody.
He don't feel nobody. You know, he's a guy. He's
gonna he's gonna step up and be ready for the challenge.
And that's what I admire about him. Man, he just
come out. He just plays the game, and he's been
doing that since high school.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
You feel like he could be the face of the league.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
I think he will be at at some point. I
think he will be if he keeps maturing and going
like he's going, absolutely, and that's what I'm hoping for. Yeah,
me too.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Nineteen eighty two third pick goes to Utah. Initially, what
were you thinking.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
I wasn't going hell no, no, no, no, no, no,
I'm not going to tell y'all crazy to Utah. And
then they told me I'd been playing power forward. I
like y'all at two fifteen, not me. I said, y'all, beady,
trade me today. So you know, we get a call
that I've been traded to Atlanta, which I wanted to

(43:45):
go to Atlanta. Uh, Freeman Williams a million dollars and
John Drew back then, that's a ton, but.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
It's he It was rumored to be the worst trade
in the history of it is goud.

Speaker 2 (43:56):
You know what at that time, you know, they were
struggling Utah to make payroll. You know, so the money
of that trade for really kind of helped for a
short period of time until they got new ownership and
investments with that team, because yeah, they were struggling financially,
and so you know, people tell me all the time, man,

(44:17):
you really helped save the franchise because they were gonna
have to move. I said, well, I'm happy for them,
but I'm glad I would have to go there.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
You know, any truth that Hank Aaron was instrumental in
getting you over there.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
It was Hank Aaron and a guy named Mike Garrant
seniors like a father to me. You know, he was
part of the Atlanta Hawks at that time. And so
they told Ted Turner was Hank Aaron said, you need
to get this kid by any means necessary. I've been
following him ever since he came to Georgia. He said,
if you can trade to get him, trade everybody you can,

(44:53):
and so they did. They traded two proven players, John
jew who was a star now and a million dollars
man I and went to heaven like man. So, yeah,
that was a great opportunity for.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
Me back then, Duncan, although it's not the only part
of your game, it was something that you were known for.
Where did that athleticism come from? And just the want
to just dunk that motherfucker so hard?

Speaker 2 (45:17):
You know what, man, It's been that way since I
was a kid. My first dunk was twelve years old
and what Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
It's like sixth grade.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
I told, were you about five eight five twelve? See,
I was in this thing called BNBL. Was a basketball league,
you know, it wasn't you know. It was just really
playground basketball. And I came down on fast break and
the guy was trailing me. I just went up and
I dunked it and I'm running everybody celebrating and I
go down the other end. The refreer where you going?

(45:49):
I said, what's wrong? He said, you got foul? So yeah,
come down shoot the funeral you know, and all the
old heads me said, young man, then they say young
something else. You know, young motherfucker.

Speaker 4 (46:04):
You know you're gonna be all right.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
You're gonna be the first one to get out our neighborhood.
So it's hands off. Nobody messes with him because back
then you had to be in the game. I used
us to the next because I played basketball was hands off,
and so they used to make me play against older
guys for money. So I had to play that much harder.
And so as I started to grow black, I said,

(46:25):
when I get a chance and I ever get anybody
back paling that lamb, I'm gonna let them happen. And
so I only knew how to play the game at
one speed and that's all out. And so I used
dunking for a two for intimidation and really who it was,
but it was to give me an advantage, give me
an edge over the guy I was playing good because
I figured, if I can get two files on you early, right,

(46:48):
I got all the advantage in the world. Now because
you ain't play I gotta yeah it's physical, Yeah, you
can't play physical. So that was it was always. I
was always thinking the game and that's sense. How can
I create vantage? And Duncan was one of them tools man,
that I used, and I just took it to a
different level.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Obviously, a career full of highlights. Are there any dunks
that's to kind of stand out to your mind? You
said you love dunkan on big dudes.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
That's you know. Yeah. I think one of my favorite
dunks was against Bob Lanier at the end of the game.
I remember, I'm on the right side and I come
to the middle and Kevin Greedy cuts me off and
I go back base, sit right here, jump. That's it.
That's the one.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
Was that a double punt reverse on to the side,
So you see a ball fake hold on?

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Post game though? How many guards that post game? Back
then through Hey, let me tell you he didn't speak
to me for nine years. I said, why you why
are you not? I mean, what's up with that? He said?
As just recently my daughter said I need to get by.
I said, he said, this little skinny kid dunk on

(48:01):
you like that. You should be embarrassed.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
God damn when you kind of see how that say yourself,
obviously he could put yourself back.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
What do you think one of the things that You
could never put a little guard like that on me
because if you switch, I'm going right to the post.
I'm not gonna be out on the wing. You're not
gonna switch. He's thinking that you're gonna hide. Ain't no hiding,
because we're gonna make you pay for switching. And I
didn't know that was gonna happen because I thought I
thought maybe I closed my eyes when I went by

(48:30):
baseline and we went up, he was at the rim
like this, you went and I kept going up. He
was coming down and he looked at me all the
way down the court. And my teammates said, don't go
back to the basket, cause he's gonna fuck you up.
She wasn't letting that happen. No, no tree, you told
my tough guys, let me explain something about tree. She

(48:51):
ain't letting that. There's only so much you could say
the tree before he slaps you. Yeah, man, I'm not
going And I've seen him slap many got a cart
right guards. I mean he slaps on gods. I said,
treat man, why you slap people like that? He said,
it takes that manhood when I slap, right, that's what

(49:13):
that's Hey, that's what get man the same way. I know.
That's my dog. I mean the brother. That's one of
the reason why you don't want to play power forward.
Look at it right there, that's him and Zeke. Oh no, Vinny.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
That said eight foot wings.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
You can't get in there. You're not getting in there.
And see he has you got to you gotta take
one to getting there. And he had no problem hit.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Look how far away he's swinging though, like you can't
even get.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Yeah, you got you got to take one back. Then
it wasn't no just wolfing wolf wasn't no crazy fine
nah man. I mean, I'm a oak with the first
kid and jump. So he said, I'm gonna hit your hands,
your hands, you know. He scored and just jab somebody
running back. Look, hey, that's nobody like that. Something that

(50:04):
came in all out brawl because he dunked and Danny
ain't no nobody He hit him with his elbow because
Danny Ain't kept jabbing him in the ribs every time
he go by a pick. So that was a perfect
opportunity for treating get him. They got you in your
bag too. Me and Bird got into it. They got
into the situation and I could man my train, I

(50:25):
couldn't get loose. I hate that I couldn't get like.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
Like this is this little the strength and conditioning motherfucker right, I.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Couldn't get loose. He did on purpose to watch the face.
He almost broke his neck. He took his face and
andrels a competitor to oh yeah, yeah, the back down.
You know one guy that he's another guy that gave
me so much respect man that after I retired. Yeah,
because he was a past man. We we got in
so many fights from Boston. Man, it was a normal thing.

(50:54):
But you know what, it was expected. It wasn't personal.
We're just trying to to in between Boston and Detroit
and New York teams we had. We had it because
if you hit us, we're hitting you back. You know.
That was just our attitude. We had a we had
a policy on our team. Anybody gets into it, bench clear.

(51:17):
If the bench don't clear.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
You you right, you find if you didn't come now,
you get fined. You get fined.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
I'm doing just like this. I catch you all after Yeah,
I'm not giving up twenty five. That was different, no,
but but then you know your fines were like one
hundred and fifty two hundred dollars. Fine, you know, and
we used to we should put it. Yeah, I wouldn't
noticed that, right, Hey, I know we put it in
a we put it in a pot, you know, and

(51:46):
we have shooting and shoot for it. Yeah, that's our minimal.
That's because it wasn't that much. May you know, flagrant found.
We didn't really know what the flaggran found was. Everything
looked back then against that in my horn, he gonna
he's gonna lie about it if you talk to me.
I'm coming down. And I get hit by here by

(52:07):
my horn, right, I get hit and the smaller back
by lambering. I went like that. Damn. It hit the
ground and I wasn't hurt, but I just looked up.
I said, they didn't just snatch me out of the ASP.
I just jump out and start swinging. And then I
came to my senses. I said, damn, I gotta fight
these two big now. Then on this side Kevin Willis
comes up, and on this side of tree rollins, I

(52:28):
got more braid and they got closer, right, and you know,
and nobody nobody right there too. He even tried to
black a shot. Yeah, man, my horn beefing right now?
Wo he was he just cheap shot at You know.

(52:49):
I broke my hand on his head though, punch him
in the back of his head and broke my finger.
I said, boy, you got a big old head. Boy.
I had to pay for that. You know, I wasn't
a guy. I didn't start a lot of crap. And
it's you know, a lot of fighting. But one thing
about I wasn't gonna start no fighting. But I'm on

(53:12):
him on yeah, you know you're not knocking this.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
You know.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
One thing I didn't deal with disrespect man. You know,
I just played my game. You know that's it. But
you know, like I said, you have certain guys that
you don't like. I don't care. And like I said,
it ain't nothing they did. They just don't like like
like Chuck person and play with. And then we fought
all the right time. We fought all the time, even
in pre season. I'm coming down the court, pre said,

(53:36):
wamn it, hits me, knocked the win at me. I
just got I just start swinging out, you know, hit
them two or three times. Then somebody grabbed me by
the neck and I'm choking. They choking me right to
like with Draymond, deal with Gobert. Then it's arm loosen
up and all you hear behind him, your boy caves
and let him go, let them go. And he went

(53:56):
limp and I looked back like.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
Thank you, appreciate the big So if you read if
if he threw punches back, then what was that five hundred.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
To fifty two hundred? Oh god that man? Hey fifty
you got thrown a million. He might you might have
got thrown out, but you might have got a technical file.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
You get that second taxtic too, But go twenty five
thousand for pushing somebody.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Man, You know what we would guy would laugh at
that back then push times. We got enough time, we
got pushed and pushed up. Man. But you know, for us,
it's set the tone, like you know the game, This
could be the game. Ain't gonna be no, okay, for
I got fined three million, and he ain't die.

Speaker 4 (54:40):
He said, he didn't even die.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
He I remember when you got fired at three thousand,
were watching dollars. So y'all had a total of about
what eight? Uh no, not close to ten million? Man,
Ron was eight a piece, I mean just me and
him was eight. He got five. I had three Wow,
and all the other players ended up to be like ten.

(55:03):
So you know, you know right now, you know you
talk about fine, if you dunk on a guy, you
look at him ridiculous back. I'm like, come on, man,
come on, man, I think I need to call the
league and go back and watch you know, you know
what he's got to need to watch real street ball. Yeah,

(55:23):
how them brothers play, Hey, they would make a lot
of them.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
Or hockey. You just go sit down four minutes.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
The league is full a whole bunch of light skin
casts and they all ain't like you ain't gonna get
too much of that.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Don't tell the toughest life the crazy league right now,
the tougher light skin you you talk about life skin.
The toughest nights got to play this game is Mary's Lucas.
They enforce what hey, nobody messing with him, Nobody who
was the one he noted someone out him and Daryl

(55:59):
Dawkins went to when I was in college back then,
you're not supposed to do it. But Marius Lucas and
Pete Marriage used to train me in the summertime, and
so when I came league, I got the toughest guy
in the league. Then I got the wonder little skilled
guy to ever played the game working out with me.
And you know, Marius Lucas, when you work out, if
you ain't working hard with him, he get upset. Man,

(56:20):
he'll call you out and you ain't gonna question him.
You know, you've seen some of the fights he had. Man,
what was Pistol Pete Like Pistol Pete was before his time.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Amparent to anybody who's ever played the game.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
I think he a mixture of some guys. You know,
you look at some of the stuff that Kyrie does.
Pete Marriage was doing that way back then. And Pete
Maverage was six five sixty six point, he was tall.
He was just a freaking that his court vision was.
It's unmatched the stuff he could do with the ball.

(56:53):
And so I learned a lot from them guys coming
into the league because they helped prepare me. So he
was showing down darkers just now with Maurice, looked nasty,
were big, tough. We're playing in Phoenix and Doc rivers
and Cole Macy gets on that. Doc literally kicks cow

(57:14):
Mason right in his ass, and Marie Lucas came up
behind Doc and grabbed him by his head like this.
He said, that's enough of that ship. And I looked
at the tree all the day around. I said, which
one of y'all gonna help Doc? You know I ain't
saying nothing to this dude. You know, you know, hey,
nobody moved nobody. He used to knock you on the floor, right,
and he reached down to help you up there. And

(57:35):
the fans think he's being a nice guy, and he's
telling him, he said, get your ass up. It an't
time to lay down now. This is what you want.
This is how it's gonna be all night long. I
love it. He was a man. It was some It
was just some animal. Mean the fact there, I said,
you have to put a tool on the line. They
had They had Anthony Mason, they had another guy that

(57:57):
Keim Bannister. Them guys are the three amingles. And then
you got they don't realize the level of toughness that
was in the area. Not only toughness, but skilled players
who was tough, you know, and strong, strong grown man's,
real grown men. I mean, mister Mean he got that

(58:17):
name for a reason, mister mad not play. You know.
I made friends with some of the guys, like a
lot of guys like Lonnie Shelton. You remember Lonie Shelton.
Lonnie Shelton got robbed out in front of the arena
one game Atlanta in Cleveland. He took the gun from
the guy who robbed him. Pistol whipm set on him

(58:37):
to the police game and he was like two sixty
playing the three. I was like, man's here in the
US because he because again he fought Buck Williams.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Oh wow, remember that bucket buckles.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Him and Buck fought for one of the court to
the other end, to the tunnel, to the bus.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
How many people you know name not each one of them,
you know, the big old black dudes, big old strong
about black.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
Beer North Carolina kids. Yeah, just just looked like a
big old I'm talking about bro. Everybody named Buck looked
like they can knock you out until he could and
would for real. Everybody named Buck just a probably You
understand now why I didn't want to play power for Yeah, Well,
no three. I'm a three. I've been a three since
I was a bait. I ain't trying to play no
other positions.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
I'm a three, you know, Yes, so you had five
dunk contests one, two, the Home Cooking you should have
won three the Home Cooking and eighty eight for Chicago
when Mike won his what were those? What were those
dunk contests? That's back when the stars the best player.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
We wanted to know who the best was. I don't
think guys want to know who the best is.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
They're scared enough, they scared to lose. They're free to
look thin.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
It's gonna, you know, interfere with your legacy or whatever.
The fact that they still talking about Jordan and Michael
dunk contest thirty five years later, tell you his greatest
dunk contest, right, because you had great players going head
up and that one in Chicago was that was that
was a great dunk contest. And it was funny because

(01:00:16):
after he said, Nick, you know you know you want
I know you want to do in Chicago. What can
I say? I said, well, tell you give me the
twenty five granded They gave. But it about two years ago.
Man I went to greet him and his wife and
was sitting at the table and I went to say hello.
He said, you know you won that dunk contest that

(01:00:37):
so how are you doing, Mike? You're doing good. But
the fact that you know, he acknowledged that a few times. Man,
it's special. So for me, it isn't about who want
to a loss, you know, competitive because it speaks to
your greatness man, you know. And we never talked about it.
We never talked about who wanted lost. It was kind
of unspoken rule with us.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
But she was doing dunk contest, dunks and games.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Well, he would both of us. None of us ever went,
you know, when we were going to dunk contest, never
went to a gym doing some stuff. And I never
practiced those dunks, not once. Some of the dunks I
thought as the contest went on, like the one I
threw off the glass when of them got women. I've
never done that one before. I just knew, I said,
with jumping abillity, I if you catch it right, yeah,

(01:01:24):
this dunk the hall as you can, you know. And
so I never worked on that stuff, and neither did he.
Neither did he.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
I would love to see y'all having one on one
to talk about like Magic and Isaiah did. I'd love
to see you and Mike because you might be the
person gave Mike the most work in his career.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
We went at it. I know that we went at it,
you know, and the thing that we have so much
respect for on and one thing that's what I love
about it. One thing he said, man, and I looked
at it. I'm like, wow, he actually believed that, he said,
you know, when I was going against Nick, he said,
Nick was amazing. I just tried to be as amazing.
And I said special. Wow, that's pretty special, he said,

(01:02:06):
you know, but it just showed me that how special
our relationship was, you know, as competitors, you know, but
how special you were as well. Well. He's always showed
me respect, you know, and he don't know about it
with him and he used to say, like, look, we
play excuse me. You know, we're gonna make a tough

(01:02:28):
on We're gonna double and triple. You know. I rarely
ever saw one on one coverage, you know, as a player,
and so a lot of times they would send a
guy at me as soon as I caught it, you know, like,
don't even give him a chance to go into that
Sam move or get to the middle. And but Chicago
was a team that you know, I had great success

(01:02:48):
with and probably because of Michael Jordan and Scotti. You know,
they brought out that level of toughness.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
If Adam Silver gave you the opportunity, said, Dominique, we
need you to fix the dunk contest.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
You do I gotten asked that question before. At first,
I said, won't we throw more money at it? I'll
let you pick the you know, I said, but they
make too much money. That ain't gonna work. I said,
you know, if you can pick the contestants and sit
down and say, hey man, this would be great for

(01:03:20):
the contest, great for the fans for that weekend. Would
you be willing to get into it. I don't know
a lot of guys who be willing to do it.
So to answer a question, I really don't know. Because
you got a G League guy and Clone has coming
won it twice in a row, Matt mcluon, and I
have much respect for him, the tough little guy man,

(01:03:42):
and he puts on the shows. And I told her,
I said he had, I said, yeah, he worked. I said,
you had. You had to come with it to beat
this kid. But on the other side, as as a
competitor that's in the NBA going to like you should
be a little embarrassed, right, let me tell you And
it's just my mentality. Anybody coming up, that's a guy

(01:04:02):
that's not known out of nowhere, not even the league,
gonna beat me. And he happened, especially if I got
them boys. No, no, no, I'm going, I'm going. I'm
going upstairs and get it, you know. And that's funny thing.
I'm talking about my son, my youngest son, six eleven seventeen,
and he does some things. Man. I had to look
at my brother like, holy shit, you see, I said,

(01:04:23):
you see where he came from. I mean, he goes
off the bounce off of one foot, man, he goes
above that square and I saw it in state championship. Man,
he was catching stuff. Man, it was so effortless. My
brother looked at me and said, where did he get
it from? Nick? Are you surprised? You know? He inherited that,
you know. I was like, yeah, you're right, yeah, yeah, yeah,

(01:04:44):
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
So is Gerald your brother? You guys cousins? No brother brother, yeah,
younger brother, my younger brother.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
No, he's my second younger Basin. I got a younger brother, James,
who was probably as good or better than Gerald and
towards me up and then Daniel's son runs ot. Yeah,
and his son is live. He the truth. He might
be the best one at all, y'all. Who son, Yeah, yeah,

(01:05:10):
he the true guard true him and my true son.
Him and my son. You know, they's around the same age.
They both nice. Well, my son is I think a
year older than him, but yeah, he's they both nice. Nice.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
Getting the opportunity to play against your brother in the
league though, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
That's two parts. And have you ever had a dunk contest?
My brother because he could jump to oh he was
in the dunk contest and said, I ever had your own? Oh? No, No,
he knew who the king was. You know your place?
You know place. And my son, my young son. He
thinks he got me figured out. He talked to me crazive.

(01:05:50):
So he gonna say to his coaches when they said
you at seventeen, me at seventeen, Dad, who's better? I said, Man, hey,
you're gonna make a lot of money. Man. So if
they believe that, I'm all for it. Yeah, Hey, you
a much better player than I ever was. I said,
But don't get a twisted Yeah, you know, I said,

(01:06:11):
I don't really want to tell you the truth, but
member's up there. I said, Look, if you want to
get to that level of professionalism, dominant work, you got
to work for it. And he said to me, he said,
I'm gonna be better than you, Dad. And I said,
I love that attitude, son, I love the fact that
you know you're willing to work for it. He said,
I know, I got a lot of work to do.

(01:06:31):
I said, Look, if you as half as good, you
can make more money. I ever dream if you're half
is good, I said, so all you got to do
is want it. Everything else comes easy.

Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
Tough Eastern Conference when you were trying to navigate your
way through career average twenty five and seven, but never
got a chance to make the Eastern finals. What was
the best chance you feel like you guys had against Boston.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
First of all, you got to beat Boston and the
Prime with their five Hall of Famers. You got to
get Chicago and their prime with Multimore Famous, you got
Detroit and their Prime with Moca, you got the next,
you got Milwaukee, you got Cleveland. Oh, these are good teams,
great teams. So if you make it to the second round,
you've had a hell of a season because the East

(01:07:13):
was loaded. I mean, people need to talk about that.
Cleveland Cavolliers team back then. How good they were for
Nance and hot Rode and Harper and who was at
the guard Mark Price. That a good team. Man's some
great teams. And then you got that Indiana Pacers team.
They were loaded, you know, so it was it was

(01:07:35):
hard to get out of the East man. You know,
been to the Eastern Conference second round many times, but
getting to the conference finals, yeah, the good command because
you always bet on Boston to be there, and this
even before Chicago had their run. And then you got

(01:07:56):
New York, Indiana, Oh, Philadelphia seventy Yeah, with doctor j
and Mosehunt and people don't understand that level of competition. Man,
you were lucky. You had to have some luck to
get out of the second round because all those all
those teams has been there at one point in time.
They've been there before. But it's hard for us to

(01:08:19):
talk about it because people, ah, yeah, it wasn't that good.
You have no idea.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
What was what year was your last year?

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
I stopped. I want to say ninety eight ninety nine
with my.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
Sol you got you went had to head with Jordan
for many years. You got to see at the end
of your career, you got to see Kobe any can
you compare and contrast those you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
Love Cob Kobe old school throwback with a new school twist.
You know, I remember when he left, when he was
leaving it the last game in Atlanta, and I went
to the locker room afterwards. I said, man, I love
the way you know you played the game. You never
made excuses, you play, didn't make excuses, help hip accountable.

(01:09:02):
I said, you the last of our kind. I when
you leave, the last of our kind leads with it.
And he looked at me and said, man, that's really
really means like coming for you, because a lot of
the legendary guys have told me that. I said, It's true, Man,
that's just true. He was a student of the game.
I said, man, you play no matter what I mean,

(01:09:23):
you played really on the bad Achilles, which you ain't.
Nobody's gonna do that, Kobe, Kobe, I mean, if you
talk about comparisons, he the closest to me as a
Michael like player ever ever. And I don't think you'll
find too many people that would disagree, right, especially us.
And they played the same position, you know he was

(01:09:46):
you played against Kobe. I've seen I've seen the Skirvices.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
They you had an injury in ninety two that was
ending a lot of careers. You battle back through an
achilles In the next year you averaged thirty points game.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
What was that reason? Which unheard of back then.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
I'm still unhard of it, you know, because.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
Currently I was such a competitor. Man, I wasn't gonna
let an obstacle like that hold stop me, because I
tell people all the time, obstacles are not meant to
stop you. It's meant to make you sit back. You
find a way to get over it. Around there, and
I said, I'm gonna work. So I worked twice a
day every day for nine months, and I did water

(01:10:30):
therapy with everything you can name. And I remember coming back.
I was in training camp and I hit the ground
really hard and I grabbed my my achilles right, but
I have no pain. Just like you know what, I'm
going all out. If the pops is gonna pop on
my terms, I'm going all out. And I remember the
first game of the season, playing against New York and

(01:10:52):
I scored thirty and I said, motherfuckers, I'm back. I'm back.
I'm back, and said this is gonna be all year.
And you like I haveage thirty points the game that year.
Then they made the trade after that that was about money.
That wasn't about my ability. But that's another thing. I know.
Feel like the winner Chip Overseas.

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
I'm actually Don Pablo and Dominican Republic right now, might
have a couple of kids.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
How y'all meet, y'all stupid? But how does it feel
winning the championship oversee? Oh? Man? Win in that championship
in Greece? Man Greek fans the most fanatical fans in
the world or their nuts. Man. When we played the
European Championship, we was in Paris, you know, being in
my home, and the Greek fans took over Paris and

(01:11:36):
the police said, as long as they don't tear up anything.
It was the most unreal thing I've ever experienced. When
I get back to the airport in Athens' two hundred
and fifty thousand people the airport damn and we had
to go and buses, police force and whole ride. Year
I was scared to death already. Who you are the
NBA and do you come out there with this day?

(01:11:57):
They treat me like I'm one of their own. Day
I was just over there this summer, and I can't
tell you the respect that I got there when I
went there. I mean, I didn't want for nothing, to
pay for nothing to this day, man, because we won
the first championship they ever won. They won seven since then.
I'm trying to take Mad to d R for you
have his baby, so panop night, coach. Yeah, I take

(01:12:20):
Mad the DR for you've been.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
I already got motherfucking about seven kids.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
I don't need anymore. No, we're not gonna go down
that for more kids. Yeah. The food and the people
are awesome. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
Right, they might have rest you for back payd child support, definitely.
I just don't know how much this has been conversation.
I'm what you're talking about the way he's like, I
got He's like, I'm done. You got eight, right?

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
I got? I got sevenncause I got five girls and
two sons. Yeah, man, I had a girl paying me
back from my earlier life.

Speaker 3 (01:12:59):
But just like Oscar Robinson, daughter just said, you're gonna
be good at your old age because you got daughters.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
They gonna take care, gonna take care. Hey they do, Yeah,
and I'm good. I got five. Oldest is forty and
my youngest is sixteen. Yeah, I'm getting old man. You
still look good. Hey, Movement is life, Yeah, I gotta
keep moving.

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
Absolutely quick hitters. First thing to come to mind. Let
us know dream.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
Dunk contests, including yourself, all time you and three more guys. Well,
of course you got to have Mike and Doctor Jay.
Of course automatically you gotta have them in there, the
diggy Diggy doctor Bench Carter. That's class right there. Nobody
else deserves more one more. Who else deserves to be
in there? That's in fine?

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
Maybe he has someone that's for I got an honorable
mention David Thompson.

Speaker 2 (01:13:45):
David Okay, I thought was gonna say Sean Camp to
Sean Camp. Well, Sean, yeah, Sean Camp definitely, I mean
because he's a different type. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, powerful.
You gotta put him with so you're right, I mean, yeah, yeah,
he highly influenced by you know what, and sometimes you know,
we forget about Sean and so you know, I'm putting
them in that top six game. Yeah, all y'all was special.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
One thing you wish you were better at.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
Most people say three point shooting, but I could shoot
the three I had that never never had a problem
with three point shooting. I think for me, the thing
you can always get better at as a player is
the fundamentals of the game, different fundaments, the little things,
even having to handle the ball more, be more efficient passing,

(01:14:32):
stuff like that. So I think the total fundamentals of
the game, you could always be better. But you know,
back when we were playing, you know, we concentrate on
all that stuff. You know, we were just kind of
trying to to win however that looked, and however we
got there, we was going to do this.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
I got the question, do you guys, because I know
training is so heavy in the game, and you guys
off seasons, did you guys train, train harder, just play
a lot about you know what.

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
I never stopped playing for one play, but I never
stopped training. You know, I was always on the track.
I was always you know, I didn't lift a lot
because my game was about endurance and speed. So I
didn't do a lot. I didn't have to because you
get you get stronger just by bumping down in the season.

Speaker 1 (01:15:11):
Yeah, So I mean I didn't mean like training, like
running and lifting, I mean like skill work.

Speaker 2 (01:15:15):
Did you guys do that?

Speaker 1 (01:15:16):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
Yeah, we did a lot of skills. We did a
lot of skill because you know, the thing is, I
don't understand. Guy's going the gym and you can work out,
but how do you perfect your game from a skill level.
You got to play against guys to kind of illustrate
those skills that you've been working all the work, right,
you know, Yeah, you got to play the play the game,
play the game. Play the game, play the game. But

(01:15:37):
I always worked on I worked on if I'm weak
at my left, I worked on my left if I
needed to add another more because every year, my first
five years, I put new two new things in my game.
So one guy wasn't gonna babyguard man because I was
going to have a counter to his counter. Like my
high school coach always taught me. One guy had no
shot by himself. I don't give the damn who he

(01:15:59):
was any help. That's kind of what Cobe said. Kobe said,
I'm not even worrying about the person. I'm worried about
the person who don't help. That's the thing he from us,
you know, because I know I can beat him. That
guy there, I want to see where he's coming from,
because if I can get there, I know he's coming,
But how are you beat the double team? Go before
it gets there? A lot of guys you know, you wait,

(01:16:19):
you wait, wait, I ain't not waiting on going. I'm gone,
you know. And then we decide that at the rim,
what you're going to get me at the rim?

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
Is there any but this is not on the list.
But I wanted to ask, have you seen anyone since
you're done playing to remind you of yourself at all?

Speaker 2 (01:16:32):
I think it's a mixture of guys. I don't think
it's one. But you know, Jalen Brown, for example, A
lot of things he do is reminds me of some
of the things I did. But but you look how
a guy like Lebron gets in the open floor. You
ain't stop down here. That's that was my thing. If
I get an open floor, it was over, you know.

(01:16:54):
And so I think it's a mixture of guys. You know. Yeah,
this one guy that's that's that's a hard one. Childhood crush,
my high school girl that I never got. I never
got her got oh man, I tried, but yeah, my name,

(01:17:14):
huh name? I remember her? Damn she was country, she
was she was country. The name was Wilhelmina, will Lean
Country country, that name, I know that name right, curved up. Yeah,
them willing maids and them willing men. Yeah, it's always
one of these guys married and start raising chickens. Yeah
that's Wilhelmina, that's all. I'm like, you can have the chickens, babe.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
May one album you can play with no skips.

Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
Stevie Wonder you picked the album anyone him, Frankie Beverly,
Maid's Gap Band and Earth Winding Fire, same thing, I said,
my relative, my relatives saying one of the leaves with
earth Winding was Philip to Yeah, he's he's a special

(01:18:04):
but your guilty pleasure cigars. That's probably my guiltiest place.
You know, I have at least one a day. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I have. I have my own brain coming out to
shout it out. Yeah. Well, you know we're trying to
finalize thing right now.

Speaker 1 (01:18:22):
You know you got to get that money first coming,
so you got to make sure that you know, right,
are you in Atlanta?

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
I mean Atlanta?

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
Okay, we got we got some we're gonna go doing
thevent out there.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
We're gonna have you off to Yeah, just let me know.
Let me know you got my information. Just let me know.

Speaker 3 (01:18:36):
If you could see one guest on all the smoke,
but you rusted, you rusted all, you rusted his hell dog.
It's embarrassing. Okay, get your ship together. Come on, man,
get your ship to get back in the gym. But
he's been in the gym lippings and getting trying to
get ready for getting.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
To look like he can still played.

Speaker 3 (01:18:55):
He will, he still get cooked by his sons. You
can see one person on all the smoke, who would
it be? But you have to help us get your
answer on the show.

Speaker 2 (01:19:06):
Call him alone. The male man be crazy, yes, and
some things. That's why I said I said something. I mean,
if you come up here on up to him, were
cool because I ain't say noning that ain't true. And
I definitely said to.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
Him, well, Dominique, man, we appreciate your time. We appreciate
your time, We appreciate all you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
He knows me better than he knows me.

Speaker 1 (01:19:33):
I'll tell you all you gave to the game man,
and and and again. We brought it up throughout the interview.
I mean, you don't get the flower and the recognition
you deserve, but the real basketball.

Speaker 2 (01:19:42):
Has appreciate I think it's okay. The real one. We know, man,
we appreci appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (01:19:48):
To thank you man, Jacksonville.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
When you come, sir, that's the right, Dominique Wilkins. You
can catch this on damn Where are we at now? Everywhere,
Kings Network and all the Smoke Productions YouTube. Man, We'll
see y'all next week.

Speaker 3 (01:20:06):
Mm hmmm, mm hmmm.

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Dominique Wilkins Dishes On Evolution of The NBA, Old School Fights, Magic & Bird | ALL THE SMOKE

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Dominique Wilkins Dishes On Evolution of The NBA, Old School Fights, Magic & Bird | ALL THE SMOKE