Vic Mensa Unfiltered: Chicago, ICE, Kanye & the Lies We’re Fed

Nobody is using their platform to educate, challenge, and inspire quite like Vic Mensa. From viral orange-tree monologues to fearless conversations about politics, identity, and culture, Vic joins ALL THE SMOKE for one of our most wide-ranging and thought-provoking interviews yet. Vic breaks down how he uses social media as a tool for activism, the realities of Venezuelan immigration in Chicago, and how redlining and systemic violence continue to shape the city. He reflects on growing up biracial, his powerful ayahuasca experience, and the role music plays in influencing today’s youth. We also dive deep into Chicago’s legendary music scene, including unforgettable stories about coming up with Chance The Rapper, being in the room while Kanye West recorded “30 Hours,” and the moment Vic’s own career began to take off. Plus, he talks acting on The Chi, sheds light on today’s activists making a real difference, and shares what it was like filming Still With Smoke entirely on an iPhone in Senegal. This one is equal parts history lesson, cultural deep dive, and raw personal reflection.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back All the Smoke, Season six. Jack has been
a good It's been a good run. Man, let's run, bro,
It's been a good three days. We started off with
some interviews and then we did a live stream yesterday and.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Now we got some epic interviews to some great sit downs.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
Man.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Uh, this is someone that that I haven't known but
just been a fan.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Of just his approach to life and his.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Realism and his is not afraid to speak truth to
power and and and give people game in this crazy world.
A prolific artist, actor, activist, writer, does a lot of
different things. Dad, Welcome to the show man, Vic mensa
apppreciate man.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Thanks good, thank.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
You, thank you for your time.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
As I was telling you before you said, I was
trying to find bro an orange tree, I was gonna have.
I was gonna buy a whole orange tree. So he
could have just walked through the door, grabbed him an
orange and got into an element. So even all the
Smoke couldn't do that. So we tried. But y'all know
each other. How do you guys know each other?

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yeah, it was an event in Chicago.

Speaker 4 (00:57):
Somebody he knew I had and Al Harington had without
across event. Yeah, we got a chance to meet and
talk for a minute. But we had a good conversation too.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:05):
Yeah, those guys by Yola, they kind of like stewarded
me in the cannabis business. That's what I do back
in Illinois, and it was their event and that's where
we met, and I just always have been a fan
of your perspectives. I think that was probably early if
this is season six, that was probably like right when
you're that was like twenty twenty ish, really that long.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
It was a while back. Yeah, no, key, that was
probably around the time when it started here.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
We started with late eighteen, nineteen nineteen. Yeah, so we
were here, man, still doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
And I love what y'all doing too.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Man.

Speaker 5 (01:40):
I think like something that's been a beautiful development and
culture that I think hip hop got from sports is
that some of the like all the statesmen of the
game have become primary mouthpieces of the culture. And I
think that's like that's what we need we as a people.
We are an ancestral people and people that have reverence

(02:05):
for the elders, like hip hop. I offer felt like, man,
they be discarding the elders, you know, But now recently
with Nori and Joe Budden and you know others Jada
and Joe, people are become those those people with the
most validity in their perspective are like becoming primary mouth

(02:26):
pieces for the culture. So I believe that's what y'all
are doing here too, And I just you know, as
your younger.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Brother, appreciate, appreciate you, appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
You're someone who's very outspoken out a lot of things,
particularly people kind of being lost in their phones and
phone times. What do you want your platform to stand
for when it comes to social media?

Speaker 5 (02:46):
I guess social media is you know, it's just it's
just a vessel right now. That's where people are coming
in contact with new ideas and coming in contact with
the news what's happening in the world. So I guess
I just have always felt like my purpose is to
bring truth to the people. So I guess that my
platform with social media would be.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
That very outspoken amongst other very a lot of others
about this administration and the tactics they use which to
try to enforce fake laws. But you've urged the people
Chicago to unify and be intentional in their actions. We
asked Michelle Obama this maybe two months ago. If we

(03:26):
have to continue to go high when they go low?
And she paused for a second, she said, she said no,
but we want to be strategic in our moves and
our actions and our emotions. And you utter, Michelle, you
had a very you had a very famous quote.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
When they go low, we go high.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
And we still have to go high.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
We'll get there, but we.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
Won't go there.

Speaker 6 (03:48):
The true answer is, you know, no.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Sometimes it was good at the moment. Let's meeting where
they're at now.

Speaker 6 (03:56):
You know, here's the thing. Going going high is about
being te strategic, right, And that's really my point. That
doesn't mean you don't feel it emotionally, that doesn't mean
you don't get angry, you know, but that means that
our response needs to be strategic and have a goal
beyond us just being mad, because that's just you know,

(04:16):
I don't want to waste my mad, right, So let's
you know, let's let's be thoughtful about what we say,
why we say it, what's the plan where we headed?
You know, that's what going high is.

Speaker 7 (04:28):
Gotcha, you think I got some mad to waste, It's gone.
I'm a lot of mad. You got from somebody else
similar sentiments. What does that look like for you? You know,
I was watching videos of New York today. Anybody's seen
that just walking around like people that just New York.

Speaker 5 (04:48):
Ice is in New York City right now, and the
New Yorkers are mobilizing. They start tackle a man, put
them on the ground. Instantly you see people of all
race on the ass. And by the end of the
video it's like one hundred New Yorkers, like, get all
of art down.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Like that was a terrible New York accent.

Speaker 5 (05:12):
But they was moving on ice and they were doing
it as a unit, as one, and it was beautiful
to me. And honestly, it was kind of everything that
I had hoped to see from Chicago. You know, as
I've been urging people to have unity and intention. To
me that that in no way, shape or form means

(05:33):
accepting abuse, but that does mean.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Overcoming division. And what I thought about when I.

Speaker 5 (05:42):
Saw New Yorker was, oh, New Yorkers are forced to
deal with each other every day, they walk everywhere, they
share a subway. Chicago is an incredibly segregated city. So
when things have popped off in Chicago, there's so much
division between the racial groups, between the Black community and

(06:04):
the Latino community, that everybody's still thinking, Oh, this should
just be you, you know what I mean, Like, I
don't know why why they choking the black man by
the side of the road.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
They're supposed to be choking Mexicans. You know, that was
a real comment.

Speaker 5 (06:18):
And it's not to be finger wagging at the black community,
because you know there's validity and disagreement and the disagreements
that exist, but it's to look beyond that and to
recognize that even our segregation, even our division, even the
things that separate us, our manufactured and that's a perfect strategy.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
For that's what the capital overlooks.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
They keep us if they can't come together, they can't.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Get us, keep us button heads.

Speaker 5 (06:47):
And and something I think about is that the systematic
removal of our profits, of our Marcus Garveries, of our
chim Fred Hamptons, is also the obscuring of their information
and their accomplishments. Like Chemi Fred Hapton was killed at
twenty one. Had created the Rainbow Coalition where he connected

(07:10):
the Black Panther Party with the Young Lords.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Was a Puerto Rican group with like poor white group,
you know, what I mean, these were This was the
Brainbow Coalition. This is the seventies. They already figured this out.

Speaker 5 (07:23):
Like we literally already figured out that the blacks, the Latinos,
and the poor whites are supposed to.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
Be unified, and we all have the same struggles, just
different colors. But some people don't let that color. Won't
get over that color.

Speaker 5 (07:35):
I mean, that's what happens though, when you when you uproot,
when you uproot the tree, you don't allow the roots
to spread. So here we are, how many years later,
like what fifty sixty years later, and we haven't been
able to build upon the information that our ancestors already
figured out because co intel pro you know what I mean.

(07:57):
It's like, but I love to see that in New
York though, I was like, Okay, cool, there's somewhere that
people are recognizing that we're all under attack here, Like
it doesn't make sense to be divided.

Speaker 4 (08:11):
It's always been a crazy situation in Chicago, Like it
started with when it was trying to turn to Venezuelans
against everybody in Chicago.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
Can you talk about that?

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, the situation with the Venezuelan and immigrants.

Speaker 5 (08:23):
Man, it's insidious and brilliant political maneuver by Texas Governor
Greg Abbot because they actually bust all of these Venezuelan
asylum seecrets into Chicago and some of us were there.
I partnered with local restaurants and was giving people food

(08:44):
and clothing because it was the middle of the winter,
So people showing up with flip flops, they got babies
with them.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
I mean, I don't know or care what you believe.

Speaker 5 (08:52):
Nobody's baby is supposed to freeze in the wintertime anywhere,
you know what I'm saying. And I actually caught a
lot of heat for providing for that community because immediately
it created division in the city. You know what I mean,
because the reality of the black experience is that being

(09:13):
so deeply entrenched in the systems of exploitation and oppression,
any disaster, any crisis, is going to hit us first,
you know what I'm saying. As Katrina, you know, any
crisis is going to hit the black community the hardest.
So you know, one of my man's he came out
of prison right more recently, like twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
I helped him come home from prison.

Speaker 5 (09:36):
He was locked up at fourteen for twenty five years,
just like travesty and you know, by the grace of God.
And actually the governor of Illinois who was able to
bring him home twelve years early point being he was
trying to get some of that housing that they often
have for newly released people, and he was like, man,

(09:56):
he couldn't actually get none because it had been liven
to the Venezuela and Asylumn seekerts.

Speaker 3 (10:01):
You know.

Speaker 5 (10:02):
But they set that type of ship up on purpose,
you know, to make black people. And he's woke, so
he like, man, I'm not falling for that. I'm not
going to let that make me hate my own people,
you know. But you see how they do it. So
they sent to Venezuelan migrants immigrants, is what I'm gonna say,
because I feel like migrants is kind of loaded. Sent
them to Chicago two years ago, and two years to

(10:23):
that date, sent ice in Texas National Guard to come
get their ass and fuck us up.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
I mean in the process.

Speaker 5 (10:31):
It's real tricky, and people forget what happened two years ago,
because brother, it's been like wars, got damn so.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Much other shit going on. Yeah, that's the thing you
get lost in the sauce.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
I played in Venezuela. And there's some beautiful people too.

Speaker 5 (10:43):
What.

Speaker 4 (10:43):
Yeah, I played out there, how was that? I loved it?
I was eighteen my first day there. That's when I
told you. The kid jumped off a bridge to two
cars in front of me my first day there. But
as my time spunt there, those people are.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Great people, beautiful people.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
That's dope, beautiful Where you said you left all your
money there?

Speaker 4 (11:01):
Yeah, I made thirty thousand. I probably came home like
two hundred dollars. What did mo if it go to
the women every time? And I only going fifty dollars
on week because the pounds and fifty dollars and all bushes, I.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Was good pounds.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
Explain what red line in Chicago is and how it hurt.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
That's how they created the segregation.

Speaker 5 (11:23):
That's policy, racist institutional policy by which black people were
not allowed to move into certain and still are not
allowed to move into certain areas and so are relegated
into communities of concentrated poverty. Connects to Chicago being the

(11:45):
largest public housing experiment they called the projects because it's
an experiment and.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
Chicago had the most public housing in the nation.

Speaker 5 (11:53):
Build up these projects centralized poverty then tear them down,
spread the effect.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
You know, it's like it's all it's all a game,
you know what I mean. We we only lose and
end of the motherfucker right now, but you know it's
all an intentional game. Redline is a.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
Part of that.

Speaker 4 (12:11):
I think that's what they're doing in a lot of places.
They did in my time I grew up, it was
eight sets to Low and Coombe housing, one high school,
you know, some projects around everything. Now they didnt tore
all them shits down. Now they got the people from
that was growing up there. They all out in the suburbs.
They're all over here, all over here because they don't
know where to go, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
So then it was done. The tension.

Speaker 4 (12:32):
Now they even built the whole a refinery on their land,
all gas. It was a big plan about Yeah, it
was a big plan.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
Line.

Speaker 4 (12:40):
Chicago has been a poster child for gun and gang violence.
What is the path to a piece in Chicago? I
mean I even just was in Chicago not so long ago,
just trying to show love.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
And it went from me just showing love to the
youngest to me checking in.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
You know what I'm saying, yeah, who said what about what? Well,
when I went to O Block, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (12:58):
When I went to O Block a while back, I
was out there for the three and it was like
four in the morning, and I do weird stuff.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
I was wasted it four in the morning. I was.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
I was with Will buying them. I was and I
was sitting We was playing cards at four them. I'm like, bro,
I want to go to Old Block. Like, man, yeah,
let's go to Old Block. He's like, bro, I really
know somebody And we called them. There was you know,
they was out there, like but we pulled up. I
went out there with all my jewelry on, shot some jumpers,
smoked a couple of blunts with them. You know what
I'm saying. How and how I was so genuine with it.
Some kid that was there, Me and him really like

(13:27):
we linked. We really hit it off. He ended up
getting shot, ended up taking care of why he and
while he was in the hospital later and all that.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
Yeah, Bro, like like two months after this, Wow, you
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (13:37):
People don't know what actually transpired, but yeah, just but
just showing love, you know what I'm saying. But what's
the what's the what's your key to piece for the
piece in the city of Chicago.

Speaker 5 (13:46):
They don't necessarily sound like you like checking in, but
that's what that's what they said.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
That's what they tried to spend it to. Nobody said that.
Nobody Block said that. That's they just want. Yeah, yeah,
old man and old block all you know.

Speaker 5 (14:00):
I mean, I feel like, man, that's beautiful because we've
been conditioned to fear our people, you know, and exactly
being fearless, showing fearlessness and showing that you love your
people is that's the antidote to fear. They appreciate having
faith in your people, like having faith it. I mean,
I could come show love to my people and everything
gonna be cool.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
Like that's the antidote to fear. Gun violence, gang violence
in Chicago.

Speaker 5 (14:24):
Starts with the youth, man, And I think it's like
the the youth, like those are the people that we
can impact the most, you know what I mean, like
the youngest generation. And also basic human rights, you know,
like housing, education, and just cut eight million out of

(14:44):
Chicago's CPS Chicago Public school budget as a political maneuver.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
That's the exact.

Speaker 5 (14:51):
Opposite of the things that create safety, like after school
programs actually create safety at a much higher degree than
heavier policing. Like statistically, the kids having access to employment
and things to do after school in the summertime, all
those things have a massive impact. Then you also got

(15:14):
to remember the Chicago is surrounded by a bunch of
red states where anybody can get a gun at any time.
Guns are not manufactured in Chicago. They don't got a
glock factory, you know what I'm saying. Like they come
on freight trains from the South, from Tennessee. It's always
phraates coming through the hood. You never know why, but

(15:35):
the guys be breaking into them. Wisconsin is right there,
Indiana is right there. What's the law if all I
gotta do is drive thirty minutes and it's changed. That's
why I feel like the whole system of laws in
the US is kind of amorphous. It's not real right
because the law changes the moment I crossed into Indiana.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
I mean, I used to have my guy when I
live here.

Speaker 5 (15:59):
Guns ain't smooth, But he just go to Indiana and
he go to Arizona.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
You don't got to say shit about shit, you know
what I mean, Just.

Speaker 5 (16:06):
Show up to like a trade show or something. Get
whatever you want to get.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
So Chicago, Yeah, I think it's housing, affordable housing, even nutrition.
We live in these.

Speaker 5 (16:18):
Wild food deserts where you can't get healthy food. You
can't get an orange, you know what I mean, Like
an organic orange, Like I'm just picking off the tree man.
People are eating honey buns and how cheetos for breakfast
because that's the most affordable, cheapest, readily available McDonald's affordable,
readily available food.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
And then you see black men are dying wild young.
It don't even gotta be a gun. It's the goddamn
Hamburger bund, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (16:49):
Like that shit killing niggas probably more isn't heart disease
probably like a much higher killer of black men than
gun violence. So I think having having people grow up
in communities that express care and that they are valued

(17:10):
is a way to seriously impact. And this last thing,
I'll say, it's a dude on Instagram. I highly advise
everybody to go follow from Chicago. Super smart, young black
dude political analysts kind of like talks about a lot
of shit.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
I do dos discourse. He had his video where he
was like I'm going to break down for.

Speaker 5 (17:30):
You in one rap verse what is going on in
the black community and the economic situation in Chicago. He
was like, because when my lights stopped working, then my
heat stopped working, then my heat start.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
Working, I'm rob me a person.

Speaker 5 (17:47):
And I was like, it's a simple equation. It ain't
really that much.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
More to it. You know.

Speaker 5 (17:52):
It's like people don't have access to basic human necessities and.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
It's out of reach for a lot of people, and
that is going to inspire one to violence.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
I think it's I mean, I think obviously you touched
on this. It's where you lay your head, It's what
you can eat, It's the school, the schooling and what
they're teaching you, the after school programs. But I think
we're so quick to put down the guns, but what
are we gonna put their hands when we tell them
to put down the guns, you know, I mean, it's
that opportunity. What are we arming them with? If we're
taking away from their arms, what are we arming them with?
And most of the time it's nothing.

Speaker 2 (18:24):
No, that's real, I mean. And I feel like education
is just everything, you know.

Speaker 5 (18:31):
I was having a conversation with one of my business
partners the other day, and.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
You know, it's like he's a well.

Speaker 5 (18:40):
Meaning dude, He's not from our communities and shit like that.
But you know he was like, at what point can
the athletes and artists spread a message to the youth
that there are other ways for you to be great

(19:01):
than to hoop, to rap to play football. Those things
are beautiful gifts that we have from God and as
a people. But man, there's many other routes to greatness,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
And I do think.

Speaker 5 (19:20):
Education, like the pushing the value of education so kids realize, like, yo,
I can, I can be him through education, Like I
don't just have to follow these you know, these certain
paths sports and music. I could be sports, music or
dope deal, which is crazy that they kind of all
somehow are seen.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Were great.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Unfortunately up.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (19:54):
But man, man, the kids gotta feel like, yo, go
through college and be the man, because you literally can.
You know what I'm saying, Like, yeah, I do music
and y'all do sports. And you got some people clearly
that was Jolanna.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
He was doing sports too, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (20:11):
But I'm sure most of the other people in the
group followed education paths or other path other routes, and
now you're all a unit, you know what I mean. Like,
I feel like the youth of Chicago need to see
that too. They need to be able to aspire to
other things. So that's why I think upholding our history
and highlighting the things that they're trying so hard to

(20:35):
bury right now, to bury the Smithsonian Museum, to show
all the accomplishments and the ingenuity of black engineers and architects.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
And shit like that. Like, Yo, we gotta shine light on.

Speaker 5 (20:47):
That because y'all got massive platforms. I mean, we all
have platforms that it's important to shine light on other
things that the youth of Chicago can aspire to.

Speaker 4 (20:58):
Who are some people that's fighting good fight in the
city that we that we can support.

Speaker 5 (21:02):
It's an organization called Good Kids, Mad City. It's one
of my favorite organizations in the city. Invisible Institute ASADA's Daughters.
I would definitely always tell people to tap in with
no Name. She's an artist from Chicago who's just really brilliant.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Oh there's a young dude, Jay Will. He's another guy
on Instagram. He's got a podcast in Chicago.

Speaker 5 (21:21):
They started more recently called like Jam and they're just
really smart and have very informed.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Four of them, right, Yeah, those are my little homies.
I do some work with them on the political side.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Smart, they're smart, super smart, just sharp, Like.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Oh, I shot some shit with them in Chicago.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (21:40):
They Yeah, they informed and they know what they're talking about,
you know what I'm saying. So I think that's important
too because ship right now, so many people are like misguiding.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yes, so mis information this information.

Speaker 4 (21:53):
Then I was always always able to listen to music
and I believe everything out hear and enjoy it. A
lot of people get caught up in the music and
like really believe a lot of stuff that's been said
and let it affect their lives. Me, I can say that,
I can say that weak minded with all the bulls.
Should that be in music? Should it affect the youth

(22:15):
so much the way it do?

Speaker 3 (22:16):
Now?

Speaker 2 (22:17):
Man, that's a feedback loop though, you know, because.

Speaker 5 (22:21):
The hood's fucked up, So the artists rap about the
hood being fucked up, and the next generation learns how
to continue to fuck the hood.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
Up times two, you know what I mean? Worse? Yeah,
for sure.

Speaker 5 (22:35):
It gets more potent. It's like snowball effect. It's hard
to say that.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
People that don't know better should do better.

Speaker 5 (22:43):
And that's not a judgment on anybody, you know what
I mean. That's just like I think, if you do
know better, then it's important to like push something else.
I mean, to push something positive, to push something mean.
And I think about this a lot though, because America

(23:05):
would convince you that to be as violent as possible
is a sure fire way to succeed. I mean, twenty
twenty five in our modern world, kill a nigga on
camera right now, get away with it and be a rapper.
You going to the top?

Speaker 3 (23:22):
Like, which is crazy.

Speaker 5 (23:23):
It's so many times that I've seen an artist start
to blow up and then I'd be like, man, you
know what's going on.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
They'd be like, man, you know, he smoked the motherfucker
like in real life. You know, I'd be like, oh.

Speaker 5 (23:36):
That sounds kind of he sounds kind of valid, you know,
Like it's just in the mind. It's like a poison
in the mind. It is like we value that, So
I guess that's also on us, Like we what do
we choose.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
To support and platform?

Speaker 5 (23:50):
And it's just like It's complex, you know, because still
though I love black Man. So even though I'm saying
like and I love what we have to tribute, you
know what I mean, Even though I'm saying what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
Still I still fuck with the Drill Rappers, you know
I mean, I fuck with them. I work with them. Look,
I love their music, you know what I mean. I
don't know how we break free of that ship because
that ship is hot or Yeah.

Speaker 5 (24:20):
I was dying when they said that you guys had
Charlie Sheen or earlier today because I was thinking about
Charlie Sheen the other day and I was thinking about how,
no matter what level of success you achieve, you will
always invariably deal with.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
Hating ask comments from the public, and that will.

Speaker 5 (24:42):
Always have the possibility to fuck up your inner piece,
unless you really develop an inner piece so unbreaking that
nothing can shake it. One time I was I was
riding down I don't know, sunset, many.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Years ago, maybe ten years ago. I look at the window,
thought I saw trying she You know what I'm saying.
So I was like, Charlie Sheen.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
Man.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Quentin Tarantino turned around.

Speaker 5 (25:06):
Man, you should have seen the look on Tarantino's face
when I called him Charlie Sheen, And in that moment,
I knew, you can make all the illness shit of
all time, and the nigga can still ruin your fucking death.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
You shit, that's good.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
Oh man, let's uh you'r upbringing Chicago Hide Park. Paint
the picture of your childhood. Mixed race, popsa immigrant from Ghana.
Moms is a white American.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
What was that like for you?

Speaker 5 (25:44):
Growing up by Rachel High Park is an amazing place here.
My father's from Ghana, my mom is white from upstate
New York. Honestly, man, being young and of mixed race,
it like emotionally pained me.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (25:58):
I drink ayahuasca and shit like that. I'm deep in
the psychophilics.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
I want to learn that peyote and all that ship.
We're gonna sit down. We already talk in the same city.
Let's get it, yo, man, that's my ship, bro.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
So I've been I've been talking about this, right, I'm
not staying.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Macro ship And he said.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Micro and Macro.

Speaker 5 (26:22):
I'm doping, you know what I'm saying. And the first
time I did ayahuasca, I was mad, depressed.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
It's ten years ago. I was asking myself, why do
I feel so much pain?

Speaker 5 (26:33):
And at the point in time, the medicine it spoke
to me and it was like I used to want
blue eyes. That is the root of my pain, and man,
it hit me like lightning bulk because I don't consciously
remember that, but I do remember as a child.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Being like.

Speaker 5 (26:48):
I wish I could just be black, or we could
just be white, you know what I mean, and feel
fully accepted human beings. We crave acceptance, we long heard acceptance,
and I think being of mixed race as a kid,
I felt a lack of that acceptance. But growing older,
I think I lashed out to try to compensate for

(27:13):
that hurt absolutely, you know, and started to be very
violent because I'm like, man, okay, I'm gonna punch this
nigga in the face and then it don't matter what
what's going on, you know, what judgment was somebody might
have of me, And I live my life that way
for a long ass time.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
I ain't punched the nigga in the face without boxing gloves.

Speaker 5 (27:31):
On for like four years, five years, And now I
kind of feel like being of mixed race, not kind of.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
I feel like.

Speaker 5 (27:39):
Being of mixed race gives me a unique perspective and
ability to communicate and connect to people, you know, because
somebody might not look at me and know that half
of my family is.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
White, like I really can have.

Speaker 5 (27:52):
I can resonate with you fully as fully as I'm
able to on that level because I understand.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
I understand you as a white person and as a
black person. You know.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
I don't think it's it's talked about it because I'm
Italian Black and the same thing. It's just like when
you are younger, there's no side to run to. You're
not black enough, you're not white enough. So I fought
my way to acceptance literally and through my through my career,
you know what I mean. And there's a lot that
builds up behind that because there are no outlets for
us to release it express it. The fact that we've

(28:25):
been talking about that, you know, is, you know, it's
not a very common conversation. So it's interesting to know
that was kind of some of the root of your pain,
that that carried with you into manhood.

Speaker 5 (28:37):
Yo, how did you feel when you heard that Kanye
verse crazy? I was there with him when he recorded oh.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
Were you the thirty hours?

Speaker 5 (28:44):
Yeah, thirty hours and he's freestyling and he's like, I'm
a drive thirty hours, like man bars and pushingnigg in
the face.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
That was so gold bro.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
Us in the building.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
That ship turned into urban legend, you know what I mean.
But yeah, it was I heard I said that ship
was wild. But it's all that ship is rooted in
my childhood.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Though.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
I remember in third grade I went and moved from
the Bay to l a excuse me, the Sacramento call
me nigga. My mom used to try to console me.
Uh fight him to call you nigga.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Fight him.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
So at nine years old, I just started fighting for
acceptance and that ship ran for a long time.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yo.

Speaker 5 (29:23):
I had the exact same experience being like in my
in my call the Sack, you know where I live,
there was a kid, a white kid who was like.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Super ad D.

Speaker 5 (29:35):
You know, this was my homie, but he was he
was off the rails, you know. So he started calling
me nigga. It wasn't like my nigga, it was like niggah.
And uh so there was some there was some other
mixed black kids that lived over there. I say, man,
what do I do you know when he called me
nigga and uh, they were like, man, you know, call

(29:57):
him a cracker.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
So he called me nigga again. I called him cracker.
He just called me nigga again.

Speaker 5 (30:03):
So I just speat his ass and I was like, Okay,
this must be the solution.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
You know what I mean, Ship with some ass period,
that's the only way.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
So always everybody don't understand discourse. They don't understand watching
them out.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
You know, Hey, that's funny. After that ship happened and
the Kanye shit came out, I remember I was in
a press conference. Guy I got suspended and I said,
you know, well, violence is never the answer, but sometimes
it is. And they hit me for fifty K for
that comment. Fuck them, But sometimes people's hard hit that's
how they learned. I want to touch on this, this
ayahuasca though, what what What has it done for you?

(30:44):
And it made you look at life different and perceive
different everything?

Speaker 5 (30:48):
Man, Between ahuaca mushrooms, peyote, I only did that once.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
I only did that once.

Speaker 5 (30:57):
But ayahuasca mushrooms have been like a serious part of
my life for a long ass time now, and I
attribute a lot of a lot of transformation, a lot
of growth to psychedelics. I feel like a psychedelic experience
can be years of therapy all at once, you know.
And ayahuasca specifically, it reduces you to this soul space

(31:21):
where somebody's race or somebody's physical appearance is no longer significant,
you know what I mean, because you kind of resonating
with the room or a spiritual level, a deeper spiritual level,
and it answers very specific particular questions.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
Ayahuasca is like.

Speaker 5 (31:41):
The grandmother's spirits what they call it, And you would
ask questions of the medicine, like I said, why do
I feel so much pain?

Speaker 2 (31:48):
And said I used to want blue eyes, That's the
root of my pain.

Speaker 5 (31:51):
Or you know, another time, I had a similar revelation
about about anger and realizing that a lot of my
anger that I carry through life just being an angry person.
It was like really internal anger, being upset with myself
for not being white.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
That was a heavy trip that day. I was like, damn,
And that kind of makes you.

Speaker 5 (32:15):
Know, that also makes sense, you know, because I always
had a motherfucker chip on my shoulder, always want to
still on the nigga, you know.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
What I'm saying, I'm just meeting you, but we are
very similar. I'm trying to tell you, trying to tell you.

Speaker 5 (32:29):
And the thing about the ayahuasca man is like, it's
not an enjoyable experience interesting, but it's so significant and
the downloads that you will receive from it.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
They so profound that that's what sticks with me. You know.

Speaker 5 (32:48):
It's like it's a gut wrenching experience, literally, like you're
throwing up all types of shit.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
But it's like.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
What I might imagine.

Speaker 5 (32:58):
I've heard women say about child birth that the beauty
of what you receive it almost makes your mind have
some forgetfullness about the pain, you know what I mean
about how hard it was, because it really I think
it's a valuable thing for anybody.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
Not that it's for everybody, but I haven't really.

Speaker 5 (33:19):
Seen somebody go into an ayahuasca experience and gain nothing.
You know, like you got to face your ship, that's
all it is. You're gonna have to face your ship,
whatever the ship is.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
The ship you really don't want to face the real.

Speaker 5 (33:33):
Nastiest, deepest, darkest secrets, the things that you kind of
just try to like you just smoke when you start
to think about them or you know, scroll your front,
whatever it is, divert your attention. That's the ship that
you will have to face with ayahuasca.

Speaker 4 (33:49):
But under that, when you ain't shitting on yourself and
throwing up, I want I try to live under that
way because I ain't trying to do all.

Speaker 5 (33:59):
On yourself as crazy. But you ain't got to shop
on yourself. You ain't got to sit on yourself. So
basically I ain't trying to throw up either. You ain't
got to throw up on yourself. You got a bucket,
You can control yourself. It's like and uh, but still
though I understand it got damn throwing up and all,
that ship ain't for everybody. But I think one thing
people don't necessarily understand about it is that like you

(34:23):
still have bodily control. So it's like you got a
bucket or maybe you just go to the bathroom and
throw up in the in the toilet. It's like, it's
not necessarily like an uncontrollable fucking thing.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
But I would say, mushrooms, man, mushrooms.

Speaker 4 (34:38):
Yeah, I go under that mushrooms my micro doves, But
I ain't took the real one yet, taking a real
taking a real docent mushrooms, man, I mean I love
the micro dosent too.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
I'm right there with you. I mainly fuck with it
like that, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Pop a cap in your life though right now, no.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Real a real cap. Oh nor was the last like
maybe like eight hours.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (35:01):
But if you already microdose in the mushrooms, fuck with that,
you know what I mean. Because the mushrooms they do,
it's really very similar.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
You took experience room before, Yeah, that's how I first started,
you know, just go with all white kids. Yeah, we
did the first time on the camping trip at.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
The beach that ship was screened at.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
Took one sense.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
I didn't really lose it, but it was just that
the colors were in hands, the touch was in hands.

Speaker 4 (35:24):
The gummy, Yeah, the gummies do all that to me.

Speaker 5 (35:29):
Sometimes it depends too, like maybe you know, maybe try
taking like.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Some whole mushrooms, like the actual fruit is what they
call it.

Speaker 5 (35:41):
Because obviously there's the visual perceptual impact. But I mean,
I think the most significant impact to be taken from
mushrooms is the psychological effect. And like mushrooms can really
help you to process deep confusions. Or heavy situations, complex

(36:04):
ideas that questions of direction, you know what I mean,
Where should I be going with this? How should I
be looking at this situation in my family? Give you context,
bird's eye view, contexts, you know, give you like almost
like a divine intervention into your perspective. And that's why
I love psychedelics, man. I feel like psychedelics.

Speaker 3 (36:27):
They have the.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Power to uproot pharmaceutical industry.

Speaker 5 (36:32):
I've been on every anti depressant on the man since
I was fifteen, like Prozac, Alexipro, that's what Kanye was
rapping about effects or well Beutrin, zoloft, probably about ten
to fifteen medicines over ten or so year period. One
medicine worked for one year. That's such a dismal and crazy.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
There's a lot of trial and error, a lot of.

Speaker 5 (36:57):
Trial and error, and obviously the pharmaceutical companies are in cahoots.
If one doesn't work, then they prescribe you well buttrium,
which is often a booster for the other one. I mean,
I don't have chat GBT out right now, but I'm
sure they have the same owner.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
You know.

Speaker 5 (37:14):
The psychedelics, however, man, I think that they inspire growth
and literally rewire neural pathways in your brain in a
way that the antipressant medications pharmaceuticals are often just a
cosmetic band aid, you know what I mean. And in neuroscience, man,
they say that neurons they fire together, wire together.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
So that's why you get stuck in patterns.

Speaker 5 (37:38):
That's why when you see one person in your family,
you be like, man, this person makes me like upset,
you know, because of what happened in the past. Because
the neurons are firing, and the psychedelics, the mushrooms, they
rewire the neural pathways so that you can make new connections,
you can think in new ways, you.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Can heal from shit. That's my shit. I mean, I'm
in the weed business, but.

Speaker 5 (38:02):
Like that's where I'm going because that's what I'm I'm
veryciure about about that.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
What's in the water in Chicago, that that that sparks
so much creativity and soul in the music space.

Speaker 5 (38:13):
What Pops used to say, I wanted you to be
raised in Chicago so you could get the truth about America.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
You know, Chicago is.

Speaker 5 (38:24):
It's a beautiful place, it's a troubled place. It's got
a history of amazing music from Donny Hathaway and Quincy Jones.
But it's also got this history of revolutionary action Chairman
Fred Hampton, massive black people's movements like the Nation of
Islam headquartered in Chicago, birthplace of modern gang banging, the

(38:53):
Blackstones and the GDS. The Stars actually went to La
to form or be a part of the formation of
the Bloods in La Latin Kings. I mean, like, it's
so multi dimensional, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
And I think that really.

Speaker 5 (39:11):
Inspires, that inspires the creativity and inspires people to be
drawn from a lot of different pools of reference. Like
I was with no Id yesterday and I was thinking
about this because we're talking about Loupe and we're talking about.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Common and Kanye.

Speaker 5 (39:28):
And Chance, and I'm like, man, all of us are
artists that speak to so many different sides of.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
The experience, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (39:39):
And it's got an educational aspect to it, it's got
a street aspect to it.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
It's got like.

Speaker 5 (39:46):
A spiritual oftentimes like a religious dimension to it. And shit,
because Chicago is all those things, like potently, it's all
that shit potently. And then I think in our generation
having them having and no idea in Loupe having these
people have been a generation before us. It's like in common,

(40:08):
you know what I mean? Comment is my favorite. You
got really dope role models. You know, you have really
dope people to look up to that are very complex.

Speaker 4 (40:19):
Shooting a video on the phone, tell me what what what?
What goes into that? And the new song still with smoke,
This is all the smoke okay?

Speaker 1 (40:30):
And you shot that in Synegale, right, yeah, yeah, I
shot that on the iPhone.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
Yeah, on the phone.

Speaker 5 (40:36):
My brother, Edgar Estevez, he's a brilliant director.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
He's been doing all these videos on the phone right now. Really,
it was like he reached out to me.

Speaker 5 (40:44):
He knew I was independent now and he's just a
beautiful hearted person, you know what I'm saying. And he
does all huge videos for all these afrobeat stars and
fucking Ice Spice and motherfuckers like that with big label budgets,
and he was like, I knew you dependent newly right now,
Let's go shoot this video.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
We'll do it on the phone to keep the budget lower.

Speaker 5 (41:09):
Put our budget into the location, into going to West
Africa and.

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Make something, make something beautiful like that. I think we
had a place in time in the music industry and
many industries.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Man, when like.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
The structure of the business is different than it was,
you know, and the wool.

Speaker 5 (41:30):
Is pulled out from people's eyes. You can see that
artists are not receiving fair pay. You can see that
even like in sports, maybe the recent development of nil
and seeing like yo, these kids are being like, I'm
sure that was y'all at the point of time, making
these folks so much money, you know what I mean, Like,
you know, crazy exploited, and the music industry is in

(41:54):
that place right now. So what we wanted to do
with that first foremost was make some dope. I spend
a lot of time in Africa. I'm very inspired by
by West African culture and also though to show our
peers and show younger artists like yo, you can you
can produce on a very high level using just what

(42:15):
you have.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Develop the skill set and you can do it, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
And you can.

Speaker 5 (42:19):
Actually develop the skill set on YouTube. You know what,
everything you need, it's everything, you know what I mean.
You can develop the skill set on YouTube and use
the phone that you have to do some phenomenal you
know what I mean. And somebody might sit down and
develop that skill set for a.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Conversation for a podcast, and you can, you can attract.

Speaker 5 (42:40):
The attention that you need to be able to get
to the level of all the smoke.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
You know, it's gonna take you some time.

Speaker 5 (42:46):
And I think that's one part that's difficult about the
modern day is like, man, we all so distracted.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
Want to win it, so fat, you want to quit.

Speaker 5 (42:53):
But you ain't become a fucking legend of an athlete
by a you know what I mean. I didn't become
nice as an artist like quick. It was like and
is constant, fucking constant. I was in the gym like
every fucking every verse to me is like I did

(43:15):
free throws. I write a million of them before I
get one that I love, you know what I mean?
I just got to keep doing them.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
There's no shortcut to mastering craft.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
Though.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Did you get a chance to visit Gory Island when
you're out in Sineagaga?

Speaker 2 (43:27):
You were out there, Yo, so amazing, right, what do
you think?

Speaker 5 (43:32):
And Senegal it's such a special place because it's this
mix of West African culture, Islamic culture, and the French culture.
And they have this concept called taranga, which is an
extreme form of hospitality, and they're known for inviting strangers
off the street into the house. I was by side

(43:55):
of the road eating some jeel off rice out of
this bowl, like five of us eating it on the ground,
and a man just came up and he offered us
some tea.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Did you have the Italian tea?

Speaker 1 (44:04):
When he was out there, I don't remember what it
was called, but it was a hot, hot little tea.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
Man. He came out of nowhere like, man, y'all want
some tea?

Speaker 1 (44:11):
What y'all mean? And I was scared that they just
are to your point. I was like, hold on, man.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
People don't just give you shit like that exactly.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
So I was like, no, I'm cool, Like, no, it's okay,
try it.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
I was like, okay, exactly, that's exactly what happened to me.
And I was kind of the same way.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
I'm like, hold on, bro.

Speaker 5 (44:28):
And that's because we live in a culture where we
fear each other so deeply, you know what I'm saying,
and oftentimes for good reason, you know what I'm saying.
But Senegal was beautiful because like inversely, they give to
each other like they're the DNA of their society is generosity.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
And I don't know everything about Senegal.

Speaker 5 (44:47):
I'm not trying to paint it as this perfect place,
but I was inspired by a culture of giving, of generosity,
you know what I'm saying, because I think a lot
about that.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Like when ship is bad for me, man, I try
to break somebody off of something, the.

Speaker 5 (45:05):
Ship is good for me, I try to break somebody
off because your part part.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
Gory Island is where some of the first slaves were exact,
and they have them in these the way the conditions
they had them in, and then the walk. Then they
had to walk the plank to get out to either
a slave ship or some people would jump off and
get killed by sharks or whatever else was in the water.
But the one thing I thought was really interesting was
when we were coming up on the boat to Gory Island,
they say you can throw coins out there, and then

(45:34):
the little kids would dive in though, so you could
throw a quarter in the ocean and these little kids
would dive in and get that motherfucker. No matter where
it goes, they'll dive in and go down. I was
so blown away I probably threw like two dollars a quarter.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
It was crazy, bro happ.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
It was going crazy.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Bro. They wore but they would go there and it
was deep, like you couldn't see bottom obviously because we're
They would go down and get that quarter.

Speaker 3 (45:55):
Bro. It was crazy. All the days of that day
you got two dollars.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
It was my backpack.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (46:04):
Food on Glory Island. Food was crazy. One thing that
was crazy to me about Gry Island was like it
was so beautiful though you know, it was like it
was it was a really layered experience because it was
full of this dark history of slavery, but then it
was beauty, beauty and like this pastel, rustic fucking buildings

(46:28):
and colors and the food.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
You know what I mean. Man, I definitely got to
go back. So what does Kanye West mean to a
kid from Chicago.

Speaker 8 (46:37):
Kanye West's God to us, man, you know what I'm saying.
And I don't say that in like how it sounds
to deify him, but like literally, as far as an
artist you mean to have the impact that Kanye West
has had on the world and to be from the

(47:00):
same soil as you.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Growing up.

Speaker 5 (47:04):
I remember the first day I learned about Kanye when
my boy Tyrone Man.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Shout out to tie Ty Hues. He a hooper, he cole,
It's my brother. He came into sixth grade and he
was like, man.

Speaker 5 (47:18):
Kanye West is saving hip hop. He make his own
beats and he rapping about some real shit, you.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Know, and he'll tell you in sixth grade.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
That was my introduction to Kanye.

Speaker 5 (47:27):
That was like, right when he came out, must have
been the first couple of songs, and really that's that's
what he did. In so many ways, Kanye West transformed
first hip hop music by making it okay to just
be yourself. You didn't have to be a gangster. You
could be vulnerable, You could be honest about your life,

(47:49):
about your emotions, about your grandma, about your your relationship
with your moms. I mean, Pop did that, but you know,
Kanye took out the element of having to beat theug life.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
You didn't have to be a gangster.

Speaker 5 (48:01):
Post Kanye West, you can beat Drake and be the
biggest artist on the planet. I mean, but Kanye West
is the one that opened the door for that. For
somebody to be talking about their emotions. They don't want
to hear that shit and wrap you know what I'm saying,
It to Kanye face down fifty cent and obviously it
was a press stunt, but it ain't nobody want to

(48:22):
hear that till that moment.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
And I think that opened the door for a lot
of us.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
That opened the door for a lot.

Speaker 5 (48:28):
Of people to be able to be individuals, to be individualistic,
to just be themselves in music, and then that crossed
over into pop music.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
The sonics from Mateaway to Heartbreak.

Speaker 5 (48:41):
Pretty much create the modern pop landscape in a lot
of ways. Fashion I mean, fucking Geezy's There was plenty
of time, you know, when it was like, this is unreal,
how ubiquitous.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
This shit is, ubiquitous, this ship is. It's crazy for.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
I need you, I need the definition.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
I mean, to your point all over everything else.

Speaker 5 (49:15):
Common thread and you are you everywhere, everybody everybody in tune,
you know what I mean, Like everybody see what you're doing.
That's that's that's that's that's Kanye West to us.

Speaker 4 (49:28):
You know, you got a chance to work with him
in the studio. What was the first time and what
is it like.

Speaker 5 (49:32):
The first time I worked with Kanye We did a
song called Wolves on the Life of Poblow album and
it came to the studio, played him some of my album.
He gave me some some notes, and then he played
me the song you know, and I went did my part.
It's pretty magical, and I started working with him all
the time. I mean, just I through that and it

(49:54):
was pretty magical.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
It was.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
It was one of those It was one of those
times when it lines up.

Speaker 5 (50:01):
Like the inspiration comes to you in the right way
at the right time. Then I just started working with
them on everything and just like you know, flying around
the world with him, helping them write the album at
the time, having them on my songs, and I learned so.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
Much from Ye.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
What I learned from Yae, one of the main things
is how to utilize the talent around you, you know,
and how to intentionally bring the best people in to
do everything. You know.

Speaker 5 (50:30):
I'm sure you see that in creating this, I mean,
this has become massive, not just because the two of
you sat to but because you fucking sought out and collected.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
A team of brilliant people. You know.

Speaker 5 (50:42):
I'm sure there's somebody focusing on this aspect in the
marketing and the visual and I learned that from Ya
because Ye would bring in like TV writers to be
working on songs like E Line, not Musk, but like
shot to the Homie E Line.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
He would bring in.

Speaker 5 (50:58):
TV writers to be writing lyrics, you know what I mean,
making suggestions. He bringing architects to be fucking with music videos,
you know what I'm saying, Like just bringing in the
coldest people and be laboring every detail too, like every lyric,

(51:20):
you know what I mean. Like that's that's where I
met Jerry, who was working with Kanye, and Kanye would
have brilliant fucking people like Jerry Lorenzo just like working.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
On this tour or really maybe even just.

Speaker 5 (51:35):
Being a hand in his brilliance, you know, and we're
just running around Paris and you know, having fun. But
ultimately it's like genius level people that he's just surrounding
himself with because he was.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
Able to make a really unparalleled level of work in
that way, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
Chance to Rapper, Yeah, that's your brother. Yeah. When did
y'all first meet?

Speaker 2 (51:57):
Man?

Speaker 5 (51:57):
We first met about fourteen. Chance went to a school
called Jones. It was a different school, like both of
our schools, was selective enrollment like public schools, but you.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
Had to test into it.

Speaker 5 (52:10):
So I went down there to rap at his school
had an open mic, and he was in the lunch
room and I'm wrapping some cold shit, but I ain't
know how to use a mic though, you know, so
I'm like, like, you know what I mean, like do
mike all over the place, and I just remember that
was the first time that I that I met Channel,
and I think one of our first studio sessions, maybe

(52:33):
our first session in a real studio was together as pops,
like bought the studio time and we went in there.
We did a song called Lord Release, and we was
just always locked in, like we was just gang like
we had a whole group, you know what I mean ever
since high school's called Saved Money, and.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
We were.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
Music the two of us, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (52:55):
But the family of the brotherhood of it was like
much deeper. Like I remember one time they was they
was trying to fuck with Chance because he didn't have
as many members at his school, you know, and so
some kids a little older was trying to fuck with them,
and so we found out, you know, I brought like
twenty five niggas from Winnie.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Young where I went to school.

Speaker 5 (53:19):
Rag Tag grouping with some niggas was in got them
suits and ship like some niggas came from out South.
We all came to Chance School to get on the ass,
and uh, you know, they tried to like flip the script,
try to try to kind of run away or they
was doing the staying where they like put the phone
by their feet and be like, we're finna meet y'all

(53:41):
right over there, pretending and uh, long story short, you know,
found them beat they ass for fucking with Chance, you
know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Just like, so we been locked in since childhood.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
Child what's the backstory to how your career kicked off
and what did you feel like was there ever a
point where you felt like, Okay, I'm here now I've arrived.

Speaker 3 (54:03):
Man.

Speaker 5 (54:03):
I started doing music in high school, building the fan
base that way like grassroots, you know, in the in
the hallway, I was telling weed first, and uh so
I already had clientele, you know what I mean, tape
fan base was I had a mixtape. I'm like, man,
I've already been trapping to you. You know, just take
my tape too, you.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Know, just take this first, check that one out exactly,
you know what.

Speaker 5 (54:31):
So that was that was kind of how I came
into it. And then I had a band.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Band broke up.

Speaker 5 (54:38):
The band band was called Kizzies Days. Yeah, so the
band broke up, like right out of high school. That's
when I did my first album called The Internet Tape,
and that kind of took me around the world, you know.
Shortly after when I met Yay and I started working.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
With Whove and you just know the.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
Crazy.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
But I can't really say.

Speaker 5 (55:01):
I don't know if I ever felt like, man, you know,
if there was like a moment you know, when I'm
like I arrived, you know, because I think I think
I've always had a bit of trouble appreciating my own successes,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
And I don't know why that is.

Speaker 5 (55:16):
I'm sure it's some emotional shit I should be talking
about with my therapist.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
That's a little bit you're gonna tap in with a little.

Speaker 5 (55:24):
Bit, Yeah, for sure, you know what I mean, because
I feel like, yeah, you look up one day and
you'd be a millionaire, you know what I'm saying. But
maybe when those times came, I still wasn't like over
the moon, you know.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
I feel like I was still looking for some more.
And I guess right now, I work on man, I
work on being grateful for what I have, you know
what I'm saying, Because I.

Speaker 5 (55:49):
Had quite a lot lost every Gatnam died, I mean,
lost every penny fully rock bottom zero dollars in my
bank account, but fifty thousand dollars in debt. So in
the negative, seeing people stop picking up the phone, seeing
people stop fucking with me, and being able to like

(56:10):
find gratitude and appreciation for like breadth in my lungs,
and for my family, and for the ability to try again,
for the ability.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
I'm forgetting about them, folks, that wasn't calling nothing.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
I ain't forget, you know. But I also I don't
even hold it against them, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (56:26):
I just like I do my best to I do
my best to not even judge them, you know what
I mean, and just be like I had every hand
and everything that has happened to me, you know what
I mean, Like I played my part. I can't say
I was the only one at fault, you know what
I mean, But I played my part.

Speaker 1 (56:44):
Each That's a big step or not to cut you
off understanding, because a lot of times in life will
always want to point the finger. But when you're able
to accept what you've done and understanding and forgive yourself.
That's when you can start to grow. Because I were
so often it's his fault this I didn't work have
my shit, didn't have it because of you played a
part in that not working out too, you know.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
I know I did, man, you know.

Speaker 5 (57:05):
But to your point, though, I think i'd be just
recognizing that not every relationship is created equal.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Mm hmm. And just because I may have thought.

Speaker 5 (57:15):
About you in a way that I had enough love
for you that was you to fall off, I'd be
that nigga to pick your phone call up, don't necessarily
mean you felt that way about me. But I got
other people that do. You know that that's okay, and
I'm grateful for them, you know what I'm saying. And actually,

(57:37):
were you to hit the same hard times that I
hit today, I would fuck with you.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
But that's just me. That's just who I am saying.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
You know, Where's your Head out now? A little bit
older obviously new album that dropped earlier this year, Where's
Where's your Head out? Right down this music space?

Speaker 5 (57:55):
Man, I'm feeling inspired, man, feeling you know, just ready
to get out in said I've been working on for
quite some time closing some situations on it to have
the right distribution behind it. And you know, I think
like I feel blessed that I'm constantly consistently inspired.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
It's never.

Speaker 5 (58:20):
It's never a concern for me of am I excited
to create.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (58:26):
Because I feel like I got all my best work
in me, you know what I mean, And now I'm
just learning the tools to be able to best present
it to the world. Even like spending time expressing myself
and showing my personality and my ideas on social media,
it was really just it is really just me gaining

(58:47):
like market research on marketing, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
So as I'm releasing my.

Speaker 5 (58:52):
Further projects, I have a better understanding of how to
show up in your algorithm or in your feed.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
I have a better.

Speaker 5 (59:01):
Understanding of how to how to put my art out.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Into the world. And you know, I see there was
one that I liked. It was like does music define me?

Speaker 5 (59:13):
I think, Man, I seek to detach my identity from
what I do. Not that I am successful in that
all the time, but I try.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
To remember that like.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
I'm me.

Speaker 5 (59:32):
I do music, I write, I act, you know, I
do these different things, but that's not who I am,
you know what I mean. So if this ain't working
out well.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
You know what I mean, and I can move along
from it.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
I can move along from it.

Speaker 5 (59:48):
But also that doesn't mean I'm not working out well,
you know what I mean. Like, I gotta be solid
in myself because I'm I can't see myself moving along
from music. Honestly, I just love it and I do
it because like, I believe in what I have to say,
and I'm constantly surprised by some ship.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
I come up with. I'm like, man, this ship was cold.
Explain to meeting of the title. The title of that album.
Oh so the title of that album is Sundata.

Speaker 5 (01:00:14):
Sundiado is the founder of the Mali Empire in modern
day Synagogue.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
That's kind of how I ended up over there.

Speaker 5 (01:00:23):
And uh, Mali Empire, that's the home of Massamoosa, history's
wealthiest man, you know what I'm saying. And I named
my son Man Samosa. So that's just been a inspiration
to me. And then I found out so I didn't
know that my family actually comes from Mali. Like deep

(01:00:44):
in my lineage is another clan called the Kamara, and
I didn't even know though, you know what I mean.
I'll be thinking about that sometimes, like.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
That ancestry dot Com or someone gave you the game.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
My Pops, you know what I mean. My Pops was
like he.

Speaker 5 (01:00:58):
Had a grand father named Kamara, and he always wondered
where that name came from, and he uncovered it, you know,
in his life's journey.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
But happy the thing, man, it's like trying to get
your parents whole life story.

Speaker 5 (01:01:13):
It's like, man, you gotta do it while you can,
you know, because there's so much information that is it
all being passed down me?

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
And am I able to carry it on? So? So
I guess ye'all named the album net because it was
like in me, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Transitioning into acting you got some obviously, you know, a
consistent role on the Shy. What is that transition been
like for you? And how much do you enjoy it?

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
I love acting.

Speaker 5 (01:01:41):
Acting is just another way of flexing that muscle, that
creative muscle, you know what I'm saying. And I think
the best performances when you're acting they feel very similar
to the best performances while writing music, write raps, you
know what I mean. I think that the best things
they either bring me to tears or they made me laugh,

(01:02:03):
you know, like those two basic human songs, laughter and crying.
And when I'm acting, if I'm getting it right, it
brings me to intense emotion like it brings tears to
my eyes, it makes me laugh, you know what I'm saying.
And I feel like it's just another way of tapping
into that creativity because you know, even to go back

(01:02:25):
to what I was saying before, that music is a vessel.
Music is not the end all, bey all.

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (01:02:30):
Music is a gift that I'm grateful for, but it's
just a vessel for who I am.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
The same way for y'all.

Speaker 5 (01:02:36):
Like basketball, it's a vessel, you know what I'm saying,
but it's far from the entirety of who you are and.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
What you have to offer.

Speaker 5 (01:02:45):
You what I mean, and even through what you've done
there that gave you so much valuable insight into.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
I'm sure just who you are as a man. It
shaped you in ways that I mean.

Speaker 5 (01:02:56):
You're able to impact and touch people like in a
whole different sphere, you know, years after that, and will
continue to be able to do so because that wasn't
the end all be So I feel I feel that
way about music, that it's a part of it's a
part of me, and it's.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
Something that I love to do. But like the message.

Speaker 5 (01:03:17):
Could come out like that, It could come out like
this could come out, you know, in a book.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Ain't no telling man, any good hoop stories.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
Growing up in Chicago, you went, you know, some pros.
Was at the same school, Jamari Parkers you live over Richison,
went there too.

Speaker 5 (01:03:34):
Marcus Jordan was at my school too. Man in high school. Man,
Marcus was hooper. He was going crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
What happened?

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
Marcus? He was at my school?

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
So what happened? Though?

Speaker 5 (01:03:43):
I mean I think he just went on to like
do business, you know, saying Michael Jordan's son John.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Lead a billionaire. I think he's just doing crazy business.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
I know they're smart though.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Times he was like over Jordan brand and then ship
like that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:02):
Yeah four got the trophy store, the Jordan Trophy Store,
I think, do it? Yeah yeah down there in Florida, Yeah,
trophy room, yeah, trophy room yeah Orlando, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Yeah yeah, Florida. Yeah. I can't hoop for ship. Got that?
Oh No, I just stand on the side of the
motherfucking court. Like dude from NBA Street.

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
You ain't got no game at all.

Speaker 5 (01:04:28):
I should have never even said this, offer up this information.
I played soccer, man, I'm low key African, so I'll
go up playing soccer.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
Yeah, I like some African ship.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
Quick. Let us know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
Top five hip hop hartists in your opinion?

Speaker 5 (01:04:47):
This is no order, but jay Z, Kanye nas Uh
and Re three thousand and and I'll say comic because
coming it's my personality.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
Who is your childhood crush crunch man, I'm gonna go
uh new new.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Yeah, one album you could listen to repeat.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
Man, I'm saying mis educational. Actually that is tied with
D'Angelo Voodoo. I've always said that was a piece. Rest
in peace, man, for real?

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
Right these three m J Kobe Lebron. You're a little
younger too, so I'm interested in hearing your opinion.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
I'm from Chicago, so Jordan's okay.

Speaker 3 (01:05:37):
Okay, well you all right, yeah you all right?

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
Now, I mean I'm honest, going Jordan, Kobe Bryan, you
know what I mean. There you go, there you go, Yeah,
there you go. That's no, there's no disrespect.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
I mean nobody.

Speaker 5 (01:05:52):
I'm not the deepest basketball fan. But I have an
enormous respect for Lebron's ability.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
I mean, like as a.

Speaker 5 (01:05:59):
Like technical player, he could suck around and be like
the greatest. But I think it's something about the Kobe
the mindset, and I think the era of like one
guy their team.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
It's like it's hard to beat that.

Speaker 4 (01:06:15):
You know, it's gonna be hard to beat Lebron's career,
but Lebron's like, you know what I'm saying, you can't
be Lebron's field, but you've never seen a better player.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
To make But also just think, never the fact. To me,
in any order of those three, I'm good with.

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
Three.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
You talk about those, to me, those are the three
greatest players.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
They did y'all play all three of them?

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
I played a MJ.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
I didn't play MJ. I played the last I played
against all three?

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
Who then who was the most problem problems?

Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
When I played against m J.

Speaker 4 (01:06:50):
When you play against MJ, you in all it's like
it's just real, like and I have a I'm really
playing against this, like it's you in awe. When you
play against Kobe, it's a fear, you know, It's like, man,
he's really trying to embarrass you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
You know what I'm saying. When you when when you
play against Braun, it's just like there's nothing you can do. Okay,
you know what I'm saying. It's it's it's like who
is this man? Real? Like you're staying next to it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
But especially if he's hitting his jumper too.

Speaker 4 (01:07:17):
You can do bigger than you, hes faster than you,
stronger than everything.

Speaker 3 (01:07:23):
So that's how I explained it. You know I.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
Had better than Braun was here all Jordan's did that right?

Speaker 5 (01:07:31):
You?

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
All Jordan? You scared of Kobe and you just like
hopeless to Braun? Yeah? You hope.

Speaker 5 (01:07:35):
That made me think about how a lot of times
when when people go fight, uh Canelo, not to say
Canelo is Jordan, but like I watched people like fight
so scared against him. That's why like Crawford was able
to come in and do his thing because he wasn't scared,
you know what I'm saying. But a lot of time
you see you see.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
When people coming there with him overthinking man, they so
caught up on who he is. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (01:07:58):
If it was one game that you could see on
our show, who would it be? But you have to
help us get your answer on the show.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Why don't you that chance on?

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
You don't know like your call? I mean ship and
he can plug me up to.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
He just dropped the album and he can plug.

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
Me up to the half place you use. I want
to get some five heads. I want to get some
five heads so he can lug me up to the
hat place he used. Yeah he will. He had three's
all the time, right, you want to get the five five?

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
I need some five I want to.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
Man, we appreciate your time today. It was a pleasure
to get to sit down with you. Got neighbors. Man,
We appreciate your time. I appreciate You's alright, yes, I
appreciate you. I appreciate it. You can catch this on
All the Smoke YouTube and the Draft Kings Network.

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
We'll see you guys next week.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
Mm hmmm