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May 20, 2024 44 mins

It is time for Amy and T.J. to address a topic that can be a source of conflict for most couples…$$MONEY$$

Now that they are a couple, things have changed, and money is something that has to be addressed.

Plus, in an interesting twist, the topic of the price of engagement rings is discussed.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey, everybody in this episode, will you marry me? And
as a follow up to that, will you help me
pay for the engagement ring? I just put on your finger.
Welcome to Amy and TJ and rogues. Tell folks what
they probably already know. What is, as we have seen
in the surveys we've been watching and reading, the number

(00:25):
one cause of fights and disputes in relationships.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
It is money. Money, money.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Now would you one hundred percent agree with that based
on your history the past thirty years of relationship?

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yes, yes, I would say that money has in one
of my relationships definitely caused a significant amount of problems.
And I actually think the money issue is maybe even
a symptom of a larger issue where you don't operate
the same way you don't maybe you have trust issues,
maybe you have different ways of operating through life, and

(01:03):
so it might, I think, point to a larger problem
just in terms of your compatibility a right.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
So that's the number one reason for disputes and relationships,
And from also the surveys we see when it comes
absolutely to divorce, what is one of the leading causes
of divorce in this country?

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Financial stress, money, Yes, And it's listed on every survey
you can look at pointing to that being a leading
cause of most divorces.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Okay, so most people we have we got enough issues
in a relationship, but we start off in a marriage.
And this comes from an oracle. A woman said that
she took issue with her now husband because she found
out after they got married that the ring that he
put on her finger and he used to propose to her,

(01:52):
he is now paying for and paying.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Off using the joint account.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Okay, is this now. Your initial reaction when this was
forwarded to us was what? No, Well here, before we
get into the details of it, just seeing the headline,
what was your initial reaction?

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Well, so, to me, the very significant phrase that stood
out to me was found out. She found out that
he was paying for the ring he proposed to her
with with their joint account. There was not a discussion.
She was surprised by it, and that I can understand
not having known that that was happening, or not having

(02:29):
discussed that that's how it was going to be paid for.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Okay, let me take it one step further. Okay, that
one hundred percent agreement. She didn't know. So now she
has found out and it's been explained to you. Is
that something we can get past.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yes, it's something we could get past, because if you
don't have the money, you don't have the money. And
I know they are I mean, I'm going to get
into a little bit of the details here when I
say this, But I read that they were saving to
buy a house. So when you're actually talking about being
a couple, being united and putting your money towards joint
ventures as big as a house, then I understand why

(03:02):
maybe why would one person just have to take on
that expense, especially when it is a part of a wedding.
It's not like he bought her birthday gift with it
and then had her pay for it. This is some
people could argue that the engagement ring is a part
of the wedding expense.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
What do you argue?

Speaker 2 (03:20):
I Initially, I think I would be a little put off, Like,
whoa you proposed to me with the ring that you
couldn't afford. That sounds stupid. So that would probably be
a little annoying to me. But I could get past it,
and I can understand, but initially I would be I
would be annoyed.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
The next part of that is for me, what if
you helped pick out the ring, so you which I
saw on one of the wedding websites that seventy two
percent of couples end up picking out rings together. So
the man and woman and the women are a part
of it. So if you pick out a ring you

(03:58):
got your heart set on, and I know my raise
ain't coming for another six months now, is does that
change anything? You're telling me what I need to purchase
for you?

Speaker 2 (04:08):
That absolutely changes it for me. Okay, Yes, if we
picked it out together and I knew exactly how much
it cost and we were choosing it together, I don't.
I actually think that's probably a smarter way to do it.
But if you if you got the element of surprise
and the guy wants to go make this gesture and
he decides what ring he wants to buy, and he
makes those choices, that is kind of on him. But yeah,

(04:28):
if you go together and do it, I absolutely think
that's a completely different situation.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Okay, way, So that sounds he sounds pretty definitive. All
bets are off. If y'all picked it out together, y'all
should pay for it together.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
I think you can. I think it's understandable and reasonable.
That you would, but I'm a big believer you need
to have a conversation about it. I mean, I think
that's the thing that was missing here, that they didn't
have a conversation about what was happening. So yes, if
they went to go pick it out together, I would
absolutely want to participate in that and have us do
a joint thing.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yes, okay, how do you go about have that conversation?
We picked out a ring together, But you have to
be under you have to have an agreement that we
are going to pay for this together.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
You have to have an understanding about what each person
is financially capable of covering. And so yeah, say you know,
if you're the guy, hey babe, I really want to
get you the ring of your dreams, but I don't
have the money right now. I know, I totally get that.
I totally get that we have a hard time deciding

(05:29):
who's paying for dinner. So I you know, I think
I can understand toime.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
We do what we don't have hard let me so
we don't have a hard time deciding.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
We had a lot of back and forth in the beginning,
and it was quite funny because if I tried to
pay for some of it or all of it. I
got a Venmo back immediately with an extra five dollars attached,
saying that was funny. Sometimes you actually give me the
middle finger emoji.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
We'll edit that out. Tell me. We are from a
different way, right, a different gener I want to say generation,
but still we are older folks see it in a
more traditional way. We go to dinner, the man pays.
That's just it. From the moment I joined ABC News,
you were already there. There's not a moment a day
in our ABC careers that I made more money than

(06:19):
you did. So but still, once we started dating, you
didn't pay for a meal. I didn't have some expectation
that I she's It's not like I was doing okay, right,
That's what I'm saying. But the point there being, it's
just in some of our minds that the guy always
always pays. And so we had to work this out,

(06:40):
you and I, and we have resolved it to where
we do we have a joint account now, to where
we go out, whatever we do. It's completely fifty to
fifty in everything. But this one threw me because the
first detail I wanted to hear was whether or not
they had a joint account already heading into the marriage, Like,

(07:01):
how long have they been together? Within a year or
two years? Have they already gotten their finances together? I
don't have that answer yet, because if you have a
joint account and I need to go buy you a
wedding ring, where am I supposed to pay? Where is
the money? All my money is going into our joint account,
So what are we supposed to do with that?

Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, I hear you, I hear you. I do know
this detail. I know this detail that they got engaged
and one month later were married. So in that very
short month between the engagement and the wedding, they did
go in and have joint accounts. So they have a
joint account within a month. So if he couldn't have
paid that off within a month, there was nowhere for

(07:42):
it to come but from the join account.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
But you're making the assumption that they only got the
joint account in that month. My argument is that have
they been together a year, two years, three year after
all that time, sometimes you might already have a joint
account together. So I don't know if this is the case.
So let's say there is a joint account, this is
all we have. I needs to go buy a wedding ring. Now,
all of my paychecks have been going into the joint account.

(08:05):
What how do I separate? How am I supposed to
go pay for the ring on my own? If all
my money's going in here? Do I put it on
a secret credit card? What am I supposed to do?

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Well, that's that's a whole other chain of events.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
Let's go off the rails.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
Secret credit card.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
I'll not go off the rails. But if we have
a joint account, you and I and I go and
I am going to buy you a ring, where is
the money supposed to come from?

Speaker 2 (08:28):
I hear your point. That makes a lot of sense.
So I'm assuming for her to be upset, there had
to have been separate accounts, at least at the time
the purchase of the wedding ring.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Okay, and what did the we're going to get into
what this This young lady says she's twenty eight. I
think the husband is thirty as soon to be ex husband.
Emma's in here are our producer, Emma. What was her
first can you read me that first quote from the woman,
and this is this is fascinating.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
Her first quote was I was just taking it back,
and honestly put off by the fact that he's making
me pay for a gift that he gave to me.
We have been having some arguments slightly, and he feels
that a ring is a wedding expense and it's only
fair that I contribute towards it too, and that as
a woman of this day, I shouldn't hesitate to be
an equal partner.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
That that's the conversation that should have happen ahead of time. Exactly,
you're right, Okay, you can't. You can't argue with that.
But what is his argument? What does that make sense?
What if you would have said it ahead of time?
But he's making an assumption, which he shouldn't have. But
you give a gift, it's a conditional gift, right, so
he can get it back.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
But if she's contributed now to the paying of this
conditional gift.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
It's it's is it partly hers? Yes, it absolutely is.
And you're right because that is something of distinction when
you talk about an engagement ring. If the wedding doesn't happen,
the marriage doesn't happen. I believe it's within his legal
rights to get that ring back because it was a
promise for something, and so to that extent, yes, her

(09:58):
point is that's what you do. The man buys the
woman the ring, and then when you get married, that's
the promise.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
And now the ring is hers legally, and that's what
courts have ruled all over this country, different states. That
has kind of been the consensus.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
So to her point, if she's helped paid for it,
that's kind of taking away the whole point of what
the ring is. I get that. So, but I understand
what he's saying only if he had the conversation with
her ahead of time. I think there is an expectation
given all that we just said. Actually, now that we're
talking about what it represents and the legalities of what
the ring actually is, before and after the marriage, it

(10:36):
would make sense that there would be an expectation that
he and he alone would pay for it.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Okay, what do you think about the fact that you
have a joint account, he's putting money into it, and
if he has to take some of his money out
of there to pay for the ring, does that make
you feel better even though you're still.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Taking out Yeah, I know, I mean that's that'shilarious. No,
I mean, yes, but.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
Does it make you feel better?

Speaker 2 (11:02):
Maybe? I guess maybe I think what it would be
for me would be the shock of it, Like he
hasn't talked about it, and all of a sudden you
start seeing money leaving your joint account and you think
to yourself, where what is this for? And then and
then the conversation happens. I think that's the biggest issue.
And avoidance is a huge part of this because I
was reading so many articles fascinating reading up about money, finances, relationships,

(11:27):
and it is one of those taboo topics that most
experts and people who are in relationships would agree with.
We'll talk about anything other than money, like it's easier
to talk about sex, it's easier to talk about, you know,
uncomfortable topics, even family, whatever, relationship issues. But people don't
want to talk about money. And in one article I read,

(11:48):
twenty five percent of the people surveyed did not know
how much their significant other made. They didn't even know
their salary. That's how much we don't talk about money
with one another. Oftentimes, what's her nick?

Speaker 1 (11:58):
Emma, what's the She has a couple quotes here, Emma,
what was her? Next? One?

Speaker 3 (12:02):
From the young lady, She says, First, you don't make
the recipient of a gift pay for the gift. An
engagement ring is considered a gift in the most modern societies,
even today, and I don't care if you disagree with that. Secondly,
I've unintentionally partially paid for two installments now, which makes
me a part owner of the ring.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
I think that makes sense. I would agree with her
again without a conversation ahead of time or out, without saying,
you know what, that's cool. I get it. We're in
this together and we're trying to say for a house,
which I think is totally reasonable. But without that conversation,
what she's saying to me makes sense.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Give me the last one, Emma.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
If I knew my husband was going to be making
me pay for the ring, I wouldn't have agreed to
buy it.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
In quotes making me pay. I mean, that's some in
Sindiari language.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
She's mad, she's pissed, let's be honest, she's so pishy,
took it to Reddit and want everyone else to weigh in.
And actually a lot of people were not on her side. Yeah,
to which you say, TJ.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
We were we in a recent pot. It's just communication.
We talk. We talk about this all the time. The
shows we watch, it's all to see how people communicate
or don't communicate is the key to everything. It's it's
you can't it's hard to pick a right or wrong here.
There's some details we are we're certainly not privy to,
but I just all of your mon I am a
joint guy. But everything we bring in is it's a

(13:32):
joint situation, no matter who makes what. That's always been
my mindset, even yeah and yeah, as the guy who
has always been the higher earner in all of my relationships,
that's still that joint. Joint, joint, joint. Some people say
that's good. Somebody people say that's bad. Some say that's terrible,
a terrible idea. And then the other option is to joint.

(13:55):
You have your joint. I have my joint, and then
we excuse me, we have our individual accounts, and then
we have oneot not a big.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
You know what, It's so funny. I've done it both ways.
I've had everything in a joint, and then I've had
a joint where you take you know, the household costs,
and you put in percentage wise based on your salary.
I mean I've done all sorts of crazy stuff and
then had your individual accounts, and I do get it
because it's kind of silly and semantics because if you

(14:24):
do get married, whatever you all have together is marital property.
So when it comes to if you end up divorcing
or separating or having to split ways, you still end
up having to split everything fifty to fifty by law.
I mean, you can work out other arrangements, but technically
that is what legally you're supposed to do. So it
is maybe this silly notion of thinking I've got control
of my money and he's got control of his money.

(14:46):
But the problem with that is this separate way of
viewing how you're living your life, from vacations to meals
to whatever, and so it does create a separation. I
understand that, and it makes sense to me. But I
felt empowered to have my own account as a woman.
I will say that, and I will also add this,
it gets further complicated when you have children from other

(15:07):
marriages involved, because now you know, it gets really complicated.
Money is so it's such a taboo topic in so
many ways because because it's about power really at the
end of the day.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
Right autonomy is a big part of this, right, Like
I said, if you're going to be splitting and get
a divorce, legally it is not going to make a difference.
But that is a big deal, and maybe more so
for women oftentimes who are not the primary bread wind
or excuse me not the higher earners in a house,
to have some kind of a feel like you don't
you're not dependent on the person you're married to. If

(15:39):
you want to go do this, do that have to
ask permission to use that money.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, And that was that was huge for me, just
to feel autonomous and to feel like I was able
to take care of my daughter who I was bringing
in from another marriage. So I think, you know, that
can cause a whole other layer. I think of just
needing to feel like I am I'm responsible for these
other people and you're not. So I want to keep
this money available to me to be able to put

(16:04):
into a five to twenty nine or all of those
other things. And also sometimes, I mean most of the times,
people have very different spending habits. So think about the fight.
If you've got the joint and one person's out spending
all this money on luxury items and the other person's shopping,
you know, very frugally. That can cause a lot of
problems too, But the transparency might be better.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
But that he's shaking his ass andy out the court
in my eye, shaking his head. But the first thing
that came to mind. You can argue about somebody's spending habits,
the first thing they're going to say to you is, well,
is my money that can't be healthy?

Speaker 2 (16:35):
No, it can't be. But if it's in a joint account,
wouldn't it even be worse?

Speaker 1 (16:39):
But then that forces you to talk about it. You
have to have a discussion about those habits versus you
don't like the way that person's living because they are
you're spending all your money over there. We saw this
on one of the show what I don't know. We
saw this going down. You're complaining about somebody's habits, but
you can't control their habits because it's not your money.
But that's not a healthy way in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
You are right, you are correct in fact, So this
is the first time we've had this conversation about you
being all in with a joint that's I didn't know that.
I didn't know that that was the way you operated.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yeah, you're the higher earner very much like you're funny,
this is the first time in my advantage.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Oh my gosh. No. But I also feel uncomfortable being
a working woman who is able to take care of
herself to not contribute when it comes to going out
on dates and meals and all of that. So initially
when we first started dating, I felt really uncomfortable with
you paying for everything on one hand. On the other hand,

(17:41):
I'm going to be really honest here. I liked it.
It was there's this thing about women, like, do we
want to have this women's lib thing where we're independent
and we can do everything ourselves. But there's still something
in me that really appreciated the fact that you wanted
to pay for the bills and you actually not wanted to.
You insisted on it at all costs, And there was
something really I thought beautiful about that. I don't know,

(18:05):
you're a gentleman, You're you're you want to take care
of the person you're with, and you want to take
you know, you want to give financial support to that
person or just make them feel comfortable. That there was
something that I really did like about it. As much
as I have maybe railed against it, you know intellectually
I'm not going to it felt good to know that
you were there saying I got this.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
The other side to that, are there are women out
there who will absolutely voice their opposition to such a
thing modern times. I think the younger generation might see
you or feel about it differently. But do you think
most women will will say it to you publicly or
they'll they'll they'll they have a difficult time admitting that, Yeah,

(18:54):
I like it, Yes.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
I actually was. I actually got smaller when I said it.
I was like, I'm going to be honest, and I
know some women will take issue with me, but I
liked it. I did, and I want to contribute, of course,
but just the gesture of it maybe was very meaningful
to me.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
And I used to give you a hard time about.
We used to have to play like it was a
weird game we play in a restaurant going to the restroom,
like this is your fifth time Robock in the past
forty five minutes because you're trying to find the waiter, Tom, because.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
The only way I knew that I could pay the
bill is if I got up and sneaked, you know,
a credit card over to the waiter and say can
you just take care of this? The problem was once
TJ found out the venmo back and forth started, Oh
my god, and the and TJ was brilliant and how
he ended the venmo because I knew it was never
going to end. He would venmo me back whatever the
bill was, plus five dollars, and then I'd do the

(19:50):
same thing back to him, and then he'd up at
ten dollars. It's like, I can do this all day.
I want to keep going. So and I knew he would,
and so finally I was just like, uncle, fine, all right, you.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Got it, because yeah, you cost me one hundred dollars
for lunch. Now I've had to pay you one hundred
and twenty dollars on top, just to make a point.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
So finally we and we did. I was like, we
have to get a joint babe. I cannot because we
can't keep doing this. So we did eventually get a
joint account, but that was even that took longer than
it should have because we had paparazzi on us and
we didn't want them to see us going into the
bank together.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Do you remember that.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Yeah, we were delayed getting a bank account together by
at least six months because we couldn't figure out. We
were on the phone with bankers. We were only trying
to figure out if we could open up a joint
account without physically having to go into the branch, and
the answer was no. We couldn't figure it out. So
we ended up delaying it by saying, so I'm still
way behind in having any sort of equality with you.

(20:51):
I mean, that's just the truth.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
No, it's it's not no, no, but that we don't
expect it to even out. I mean, we're not expecting
anything returnal you know what. The only thing and women
listen up to this. This is the only thing, Emma
that we ask at that dinner. And I wish folks
could see this, just that little gesture to where you're
kind of reaching towards your person. Yeah, you don't really

(21:14):
mean it. You don't really you're not gonna pay, we know,
but you just make the little effort like you're reaching
for it. And we know, Okay, she wants to wants
to try it. She's given an effort instead of just
sitting back waiting and expecting us to pay. That little
gesture is everything that's all we need.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
I would never I can't imagine doing that, But I
guess and I don't know. We have some we have
two younger people with us. But part of the reason
I think why, maybe yes we want to women say
these days, we can take care of ourselves. We're making
our own money, we don't need you to pay for it,
and you can and we get there a hundred percent.
But there also is this notion with money that there
are always strings attached. Is there an expectation of something,

(21:54):
of a second date, or of something to happen later,
or do I owe you? And no one wants to
feel like they owe someone, So I think maybe that
plays into it as well from a female perspective.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
But is that only present in the first date or
second date? I mean, once you get into a relationship
and things are rolling, At what point, though, in a
relationship you're actually dating somebody, do you start to split
up the bill so you start to say, all right,
you take this with I'll take this. When does that
start happening?

Speaker 2 (22:19):
I do TJ. When does that happen?

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Oh, it hasn't happened yet. Not here again. Weird, you know,
I don't know. There's never ever a time where I
was ever dating anyone from high school on where there
was a point in the relationship where okay, now it's
time versus start splitting it up. I would prefer a
woman you pay for it instead of us splitting the check.

(22:43):
Splitting the check is embarrassing and impersonal and silly.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
I think it puts you in the friend zone too.
It feels like friends split bills. That's what we do.
I would much rather, as you put it, like I
got this one. You used to always say this, it
all evens out on the end, doesn't.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
This is how I say, we spend enough time together,
but it doesn't even out because I went, we go
to dinner again, and you paid this time. But when
I am over at your place and you ordered the
prosecco and the stakes and you ordered the takeout here, right,
we're not keeping tabs of just we're together enough. You
you buzz me into the subway sometimes that's two seventy.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
You have then mowed me to seventy five. And I
think you did it maybe two months ago, and I thought, really,
we're still here. You're calling me for the subway car.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
Because I don't ever want you to feel like I
have an expectation that you should cover something, and it's
just it's going to be a thank you. It's going
to be something that acknowledges that you have done something
for me financially. Yes, if that's a two seventy five
subway rat, you.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Do take it to an extreme, but I also do
appreciate the intent behind it. And I just Emma, I
want to you. You go on a lot of first dates? Yes, yes,
Why do you introduce her like that? So? I guess
I was just jumping into the conversation we had had
before the podcast started, So I apologize. We had already
established that Emma as single and went on a first date. Sorry,

(24:08):
I jumped in and just thought the viewers were already
there and the listeners were already there anyway, So yes,
I apologize for that, Emma. But have you ever paid
for the meal or the activity on a first date?

Speaker 3 (24:23):
No? I have not paid. I don't think I've paid
ever on the first date, not by choice. But I
think it's like you guys were perfectly saying that it's
the gesture of the man wanting to pay and me
accepting the kind gesture.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
How would you feel if he suggested that you split it?

Speaker 3 (24:45):
I would split it? But I don't think I would
go on a second date with it really.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
Wow, Why though, why is that such a turn off
because you're twenty two? I just want to for folks
to know who youre talking to here.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
I think it's because the men in my life have
treated me with that kind of kindness, and I like
being treated that way by a man because I know
that when they make money, they don't spend it as
often as girls do. So when they want to spend
money on a girl or spend money on something, I
feel like it has more power or there's something bigger

(25:22):
behind it.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
So what would you say along the way of dating
to where there would be an okay expectation of the
bill being split or for you starting to pay for
some of them?

Speaker 3 (25:31):
I think once we were comfortable with each other and
liked each other, because I would I'm all for wanting
to split it or buy them Like I one time
I was asked to buy someone a hot chocolate and
I was so excited to buy and one because he
always bought me up all my drinks and food. So like,
I'm so into buying a guy a drink as well.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
I'll go thanks for the stake, want some hot cocoa.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
I mean, I believe we had some of those moments
where I would think it was really really, I'm like,
I got this one, and then you would laugh I
did it on purpose? Well please let me.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
That would the hell out of me.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
I'm trying to give an example. We're at CBS getting like,
you know, I don't know shampoo. I got this one.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
You know, we tried that for a while. We tried
the back and forth, but it always landed to where
you were buying happy hour drinks, right, and with the
bills thirty four hours. And for whatever reason, I'm at
per Se trying to I.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Was like Morton's Steakhouse, it's your turn, right.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
This all was all spawned from this conversation about the
engagement ring, and I isn't it standard The guy gets
the ring, proposes, but then you pay for your wedding bands.
That's more of a joint expense.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yes, yes, yes, I think that is the traditional way
that people operate. I mean, you know, there's all sorts
of traditions surrounding weddings that people don't necessarily do. The
bride's family typically pays for the wedding, and the groom's
only typically pays for the rehearsal dinner. But you know
that doesn't always. That isn't always what happens these days.
And I just think, you know, with women, more women
being in the workforce and in the workplace and educated, like,

(27:11):
we're capable of paying for things in a way that
you know, past generations have not been. But I think
some people still point to something as specific as the
wage gap that still exists, and that could be a
reason why men should still make the offer to pay.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
I saw that. It's interesting, that's an interesting way to
think about it, Like, hey, you're you're unfairly being paid
more than I am. Anyway, Yeah, you covered the meal.
Oh it's there's some logic to that. I mean, it's
you could never quantify that, but still there's some logic
to it. But the engagement ring part, and I would
love to talk to these two and maybe we'll get

(27:47):
a chance to at some point. Just the idea of
the engagement ring I can't imagine. But I look at
it this way. If you offered analyse a say, hey,
I'm going to buy your car, you wouldn't just tell
her go out pick whatever car you want, I pay
for it. No, right, so I go with that. With
the engagement ring, he had to have some kind of

(28:08):
an idea. He didn't just like, Hey, what ring do
you want and I'll go get whatever there had to be.
If you had to have contributed, I would guess to
the picking of the ring in.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Some way, the kind of rings she would like, the
size of rings she would like. I mean, most women
drop really heavy hints if they don't go shopping with
the boyfriend. It's very much like, Wow, I really like that,
you know, So I do think.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
What do you like?

Speaker 2 (28:34):
I'm simple? As I pointed out.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Both our producers like, no, really, what do you like?
You know?

Speaker 2 (28:47):
I I do like simple, I do like elegance, and
I don't like flashy.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
So what is that?

Speaker 2 (28:52):
I don't know. I don't have an idea of it.
I mean it's funny, oh shape, you know, I really
really like. I don't know. I don't even need a diamond.
I really A band is fine question with me.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
Yes, So, being on a second marriage, do you think
buying an engagement ring would deter a couple from getting
married again? Officially?

Speaker 1 (29:21):
First of all, it would be the third marriage.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
I mean, if you're asking for a friend that's something
else this would be so yeah, I mean my I
think it's one of those when it is your first
and hopefully it's your last engagement and wedding, I think
maybe there's more of an emphasis placed on all of
those traditional things, including an engagement ring. I don't feel
that way now. For me, it's about the relationship and

(29:48):
it's about the the commitment. It really isn't about the
symbol of it. But I totally get it the first
time and hopefully for most people the last time around,
it is important and it does signify something and there
something beautiful too, So I get why there are so
many expectations and so much money spent on these types
of of of I guess that's just like a symbol

(30:10):
of your commitment. I don't really place a lot of
value on that anymore. Just truthfully, I don't on the
traditions of it, well, yes, on the traditions of it
and having the ring, I just for me, that's not
it's not it's not even in my head. I couldn't
even tell you what I would want or what I
would what I would choose or yeah, and I wouldn't

(30:31):
want anybody to break the bank or spend money they
don't have ever.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
Okay, somebody checked the time code on that he wants.
And we keep referring to these shows and they're they're
wildly entertaining, silly at times, but there's so fascinating to

(30:58):
listen to people talk about marriage and what they want
in their expectations. We're sitting here a whole conversation based
around a ring, right, and an engagement ring, and that
didn't go well, and you were just saying about the
traditions and first time around you were into this and
maybe not so more much. Now what do we always say? Now?
And hearing people discuss their relationships, they're focused so much

(31:18):
on I want a husband, I want a wife. This
is my dream wedding, this is my dream ring. So
much emphasis is put on the wedding and these traditions
and not enough on the actual relationship, the marriage. We
were talking about this this is our latest podcast. Right,
people have bad moments in a relationship, but that could

(31:40):
be a great relationship just to have some bad moments.
There are other relationships that are bad relationships and have
some great moments.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Every once in a while. Don't ignore the fact that
you got a bad relationship, and we can't ignore the
fact that we got a great one just because we
have a couple of bad moments. And that is what
we have noticed is missing all the time as we
watch people communicate in relationships. And so this is another

(32:07):
we're talking about all this and money and this and that.
That's really not where the focus should be. And I
get it. Yes, we had to go through a lot
of experience and difficult experiences to get here. But I
could recommend to anybody you should not want to get
married until you find somebody you want to get married too.

(32:30):
Those are two different thing, right, people are twenty five
now and single, thirty and single, whatever. I want to
get married. I want to get married and want to
get married. Emma, you want to get married one day? Yes, okay,
I encourage you to change that thinking. Right, It sounds good,
It sounds like a fantasy. But there's gonna be somebody
that comes along in your life and you're going to
say I want to marry him instead of just wanting

(32:50):
to get married. And I could absolutely say that about you.
You're not going back and forth about this all the time,
like I want to marry you. I don't need to,
but I want to be married too, and that's such
a different thing as we sit here and talk about
engagement rings and joint account Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
I mean, it's interesting having gone through this now both
of us twice, and I know that can be joke material,
but I actually think it's been such hard earned. God,
I mean just I've learned so much through going through
both of those relationships and now being in this one

(33:25):
with you. And to your point, we all get caught
up in the traditions and in the expectations and in
what we think we're supposed to do or what looks
like the next thing to do. But interestingly, now with
the choice totally in front of us to get married
or not for us, we're kind of on the fence
and laughing about it because it doesn't matter because we

(33:47):
know we want to be with each other, we want
to marry each other. We don't have to necessarily get
married because of what that represents. It's almost for everyone
else and not for you, And so I just we've
been watching these shows and it's and I get it.
I've been swept up in it. We all have. But
it's about almost the you know, going through these moments

(34:07):
in life that you look forward to maybe as a
young girl or a young boy and then getting to
do those things, but it's not as focused on the
relationship and the person and what comes after the wedding.
All of that somehow gets lost in the shuffles so
many times, and then you're like, and in these shows
they say, oh, man, this isn't what I thought it

(34:29):
was gonna be. Yeah, this isn't what I signed up
for because the focus hasn't been on the person. So yes,
and I'm not faulting, cause we've all been there, and
I get the excitement of all of that and the
ring and the wedding dress and all of that. But
at the end of the day, it's about the relationship
and most importantly, it's about the communication. And that's what's

(34:51):
missing in this specific story is the communication.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
Isn't that something we've gone all and talked about all
this That problem could have been solved with talking yep,
ibby damn.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Talking about money, talking about what you have and talking
about what you don't have. And that's okay too, you know.
I think, like you said, it's hard for men to
open up about not maybe having the amount of money
they want to have or And there's so many times
you see people not disclosing the debt they have because
when you marry someone, you don't just get their bank account,
you get their credit score and you get their debt

(35:25):
and that all is your responsibility too when you get married.
That people don't think about. So having these conversations about
money is very important.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
Well, my credit score was higher and my debt was
lower before I bought the engagement ring.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
Ah, yep, all of that matters. It all contributes to
the end game. And if you're in it together, it
is about figuring it out together. I mean, do you
consider yourselves partners in every way? Because marriage, gosh, it
started out as a business. Wasn't it a financial enterprise
to begin with? Isn't that really a lot of the
reasons why we even have marriage. So to not acknowledge

(36:00):
that there is a financial aspect to it and it
is a business agreement in a way. You're merging in
every way, including financially. But you and if you don't
talk about the finances behind it, what you bring to it,
that's the recipe for disaster.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Average costs of a an engagement ring in this country,
your guests would be how much handy.

Speaker 4 (36:21):
I'd probably go with like their twenty thousand.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
What where the hell did you grow up? Jesus Christ,
what would you say the average cost of a wedding
ring engagement ring in this country?

Speaker 3 (36:36):
Fifty thousand?

Speaker 1 (36:37):
What?

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Okay, I'm telling you I already like my first one
was three thousand, and I didn't even really have one
the second time, so I did it was I didn't
So I was just.

Speaker 4 (36:48):
Thinking, like inflation, maybe I am.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
I am living in another world. If that's real. If
those numbers are close to being real.

Speaker 1 (36:54):
Wow, they are not.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Okay, they are actually Like I was, like, I really
think my one was three thousand dollars in my second
one didn't exist.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
They are not close to being accurate. Actually, good, I
feel better now they're actually higher. I'm kidding. I'm kid,
I'm kidding. I'm getting it almost still out of my
im that the average is about fifty five hundred bucks. Okay,
the average in the country or a wedding for an
engagement ring. Now, what area of the country would you

(37:23):
say they're most expensive? Who's spending the most in?

Speaker 2 (37:25):
What? Mukers?

Speaker 1 (37:26):
The mid Atlantic area is actually where so up in
our region? So that's about seven grand average. And then
the Midwest. In the Midwest is the lowest average or
engagement rings about forty nine hundred bucks.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
But still that's more than I thought. If you would
ask me, I would have guessed thirty five hundred.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
And that's a lot of money for anywhere in anybody.
This three old everybody's familiard. They still do the three
month thing.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah, three months salary, that's what they say. Well, yeah, well,
then maybe I guess Andy and Ma's numbers would be
closer to correct if you talked about this region.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Yes, but the three month through and people still go
by that, and a lot of guys I would assume still
go by that. But it the experts will tell you
stop stop stop thinking about that number. Stop thinking about
a three month salary rule. They say it was just
made up by the industry, the jewelry industry, to try
to get people to spend money a higher amount on it.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
I also think this is a cautionary tale because we
do know the close to fifty percent of all marriages
end in divorce. If you think you've got some valuable
property in a ring, no matter how much you've spent,
wait till you have to try to sell that said ring.
It is pennies to what you actually purchased. So these
these these beautiful pieces of jewelry don't appreciate. In fact,

(38:42):
it's like buying a car. The second you try to
sell it after you've purchased it, it goes down significantly
in value. So just just a little, just a little,
what do you do.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
With that ring? Does somebody want a ring that has
a divorce on it? No?

Speaker 2 (38:55):
I think you know you can sell it back to
a jeweler. You can, you know, give it to your daughter,
you know whatever. But yes, it's tough.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
One question I have so like, I know, promise rings
have become like a really big thing. How do you
guys feel about that? Because they know, like Larisa Pippin
and Marcus Jordan did that and like and they're together.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
I actually they might be back together again.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Okay, I'm just kidding in talking.

Speaker 4 (39:22):
About both like the financial strain and engagement ring can
put on you and like the pressures of marriage kind
of staying away. Ah, Like it is a promise ring,
a compromise, I guess that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
It seems so weird to to plan another prenuptial agreements
out there to plan for the potential demise of your marriage.
As you're planning for the marriage, right, I am buying
a ring just in case I get divorced. I am
going to only do a promise ring because things might
not work out. I get it that is probably the
safe thing to do given the numbers, But that is

(39:55):
something about that feels odd as I as I sit
here with you with a ring around your neck.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yes, because we had that same conversation, so yes, and.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
You were going to do this. Okay, Wall, let's not
do this. Okay, we'll skip it, but go ahead. I
don't have to answer his question.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
I think any gesture of wanting to be together is beautiful,
and I think it's a beautiful thing to give or
to receive. And it's a promise, and there's nothing legally
binding you to that person. But I actually, as we've discussed,
don't mind that concept at all. What to just promise
to be together? We don't have to have a judge,

(40:47):
you know, sign something.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Weren't you all in here for the episode in which
she said he wanted you'll hear for that, right, Okay?

Speaker 2 (40:54):
But I think there's something beautiful about that, I've told
you how much beautiful, I said, beautiful, No, and I
fully discussed how much I love Goldie Hawn and Kurt
Russell's relationship and they are not married.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
And then what did she say? Guys right after that?
You you did not get away from the idea that, Yeah,
I intellectually, I know it's silly, but still I would
prefer a marriage and a judge to sign off it,
because it's it's it's it's it's more than a promise.
It's harder to break up. You actually said, I did.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
I did, but I still can say that I think
the idea of the promise ring and the choice to
be together is a beautiful one.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
All right, Well, we are rooting for this couple. Who
knows what happens to them. Maybe we'll we will get
a chance for them. But I'm always all, I just do.
I root for love and happiness, and I hope they
get this worked out, and if they don't, then I
hope they're okay down the road. I just it's it's
it's tough. I hate to hear them starting out this way.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
But perhaps by her even bringing this up and having
a conversation about it, we're talking about it, maybe they
will have better conversations in the future. This is a
big warning, sound like, whoa screwed up here? We didn't
have this conversation then, but let's do it now and
let's keep doing it. And I think it's also something
I was surprised and then I had to reflect back
and be honest about how little I've talked about money

(42:11):
and how often it has bread resentment and frustration, and
you don't discuss it for whatever reason because it feels icky,
it feels tacky, right, But the truth is it's such
an important part of how you live your lives together,
and if you can't talk about that, there's probably bigger
problems you have to deal with as well. So it's
just a reminder to communicate and to talk about stuff.

(42:35):
Talking about the hard stuff is how you get through
the big things in life. And my mom always said this,
and we've talked about this. You're never fighting about what
you're fighting about. So you can fight about money, you
can fight about whatever, but at the end of the day,
it's pointing to a larger communication issue that you probably have.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Who are you fighting about? Just just yesterday we were
fighting about something.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
I don't remember. I remember having a lovely day.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
No, no, something on. We were disagreeing about something here
that was so ah. It was who ordering dinner, ordering
lunch or you say, I'd never tell you what my
order is, right, So we were fighting about that. So
what is our bigger issue? Because that's we were fighting
about something else? As your mom would say, right, you're
not really fighting about what you're fighting about. So what
are we really fighting about?

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Rose, I don't know, right, Can you tell me?

Speaker 1 (43:24):
No, me not sharing my appetizer order is a symbol
of a bigger problem.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Well, see, here's the deal. I don't think we were fighting.
I think we were teasing each other, which is different.
If we were actually fighting, then maybe I could come
up with what was behind it. But I think we
were just teasing.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
All right, Well, Andy, we appreciate you all as always
chiming in here, and folks, look help you. You know what,
There's got to be a takeaway. Everybody goes through this
in relationships, so hopefully there's some takeaway which you can
always find us and chime in on the conversation if
you'd like. On our official instagram, the show's instagram at
Amy and t day podcast you can find us as well,

(44:02):
But until next time, roll up your parting thoughts to
all those lovers out there, talk

Speaker 2 (44:08):
To each other.
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