April 12, 2026 • 31 mins
Kato Kaelin was a key witness in the O.J. Simpson trial. He shares behind-the-scenes moments, where he thinks the prosecution made mistakes, and his private conversation with Barbara Walters as the verdict was read.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Amy roboc and TJ.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan. Hey, everyone,
welcome back to Killer Thriller. We're jumping back into our
conversation with Kato Kaelin, who ended up at the center
of one of the biggest trials in history. From what
that night actually felt like to how it's been portrayed
(00:29):
ever since, there is a lot more to unpack with Kato,
what he saw, what he lived through, and how he
looks at all of it. Now, what's the one misconception
that drives you the craziest that people think? Like as
a public.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yeah, I suppose because it doesn't bother me anymore because
I'm older and I'm very secure. But back then, because
I saw what the painting costs my mom, my family,
that there is this thing back in current affair, that
I was a drug dealer and I say this, Oh
my gosh, I've never and by the way, people will say,
I've never done a drug in my entire life, I
(01:04):
swear to God and people.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Because I had long hair, so it was like.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Oh man, I was kind of gappy, but I was like, okay,
and if I have a beer, that's rare.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I have a.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Back then, I maybe a beer in a month. Now
I can have a beer in a week or whatever.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I just don't. I don't know which.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
It's not even it's just like, oh my god, I'm
not that that guy. And people go, oh, I saw you,
you did coc and all that. I said, No, I
never proved proved something to me. That's what people want
to just say things. So it was that would be
the thing. And I've got friends that do drugs and
smoke pot all the time. I have nothing against that's
their thing, right, So I'm still friends with them.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Like it's not it's not me, right do you have?
So you have a daughter? How old your daughter?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
My daughter now is? She doesn't want to tell her age?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Oh she doesn't.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Okay, Oh she's she's uh in her late thirties. Late thirties.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
That doesn't seem possible that you could considering. Yeah, quite handsome.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
She she's in the cart.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
But what does she think about all of this?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
She was, she's the greatest Tiffany. She's amazing.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So when she's a kid during the trot, and I'd
pick her up and not with her mom anymore, but
I'd pick her up and all that she thought it
was kind of cool like that, and maybe her teachers knew,
maybe the kids knew from that and they thought, okay,
it gives her some points.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
But I say, Tiff done, this is not good.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
And then the only bad part is there this time
it was I couldn't really even go out because at
that time, sure it was it was like a like
a beatle Mania, but people could go bad on me
or good on me. And it was it was crazy.
I mean, where I lived, I had notes under the
door that I had the tmzs were out there. It
was you have to back in ninety four ninety five,
(02:54):
it was it was insane. Yeah, it was insane.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, So it was everything everywhere all the time. Time
there was that.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I was an int I became an introvert. I hated it.
Oh so when.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
She come by for the weekends and a halver, it
would be we just kind of had to hang out
at home, so we'd go out and all that, but
it was it was hard. So that was kind of
hard on her. But she's the greatest sense of humor.
She's very funny.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, So does she ask you about it now? Is
it still a no?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Not really, She's busying her own stuff that goes on
in life.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, my own life, dad. Yeah. Do you think that
people would look at the case differently today than the nineties.
Do you think that we like, if this were to
happen today, it would be a different trial.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
It would be a completely different trial. I mean they would.
It depends. It really is important to where the trial
takes place, like a downtown compared to Santa Monica.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
I think they'd look at that.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
I think you kind of look at it a trial
of if it's an election year, because I think prosecutors
or whatever that's going the das, they all want to
have it so they have a case that gets them votes.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So I think that's all depends.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
But the advancements now of technology, because we do I
do shows we've had the best people in genealogy and
it's amazing because you cannot you can't get away with crime.
I think they'll find a match somehow, and we do
the stories of someone in your family. You can match
it up now. It's just incredible. So crime is like
(04:25):
the people have to be insane. I think they want
to have to be caught just they want to. I'll
tell you something that's amazing because you know you're doing
a crime show, and I do this crime. If you
go on I'm addicted to I find stories a lout
on ex Twitter, So if you just go on there,
(04:46):
you'll be blown away out. Every day there's a killing
you won't believe is happening, and you just go what
humanity is sick?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Right, stuff that you would never even you can't believe.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, I think that. I wonder if it's like, are
these things happening more or is it just that we
have exposure to that?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I think both.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I think it happened more, but the exposure makes it. Yeah,
And I think the more people become immune to it
makes it easier for them to do it, like, oh,
it's a no right thing. I'll shoot up a school
and it's it's sort of like nothing. I mean think
about it.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Does anything? Could anything surprise you? Now? What could be?
I mean Martians coming down?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Man, But it's I'm ready for anything now, right.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
What was harder for you testifying or watching yourself testify
later on TV?
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Oh, testifying ten times harder, because I really I don't
think I've ever gone back to watch me testifying Zeptan shows.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I didn't watch the tapes.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
It was testifying because I'll never forget the feeling of
the attorney I had at the time of doing a
four am wake up to do a run before and.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Getting down there.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I was down there when I satisfied, I was actually
down there a lot more waiting in this room.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Closet.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Basically he sat there waiting to see you because I
was on call.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
So I just know. It screwed up my stomach big time.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
So I'm a very high strong person and I want
to make sure he did everything proper and it's just
right because I just wanted to justice to happen. So
I it just destroyed my insides.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I bet yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
And now at that time, it was the hard copies
and the current affairs that would have a story all time.
And when they ran that guy who used to go
on the all time saying I sold him drug, it
was whatever it was, and I was just go, oh
my god, this isn't true. So I kept had the
attorney go to the shows, have that person come face
to face, and I want this, yeah, And then they
(06:42):
turn out supposedly it turned out to be a producer
that was trying to.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Like egging him, trying to get.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
In the silhouette was actually a producer of some show
trying to do it for the ratings.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So there's a lot of things that were happenings.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
What how how did you feel when OJ died?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
You know, I released something. Every I got my phone
was going off and all the shows. When I just said, uh,
what I should do? I called some confided my really
great friends, and they kind of just said, why don't
you just put out your own like tweet social thing.
I did a thirty second and I said, it's never
for the kids. I said, it's never hard to lose
a parent. My heart goes on to the kids. And
(07:28):
I said, Nicole's a beacon of light. And I didn't
know Ron, but I'm sure that I hopefully brings closure
of these beautiful people that lost their lives. And I just,
I just I think that was the right thing to say. Yeah,
and just that, I.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Mean, this is another piece that sort of gets lost
that through all of this that you lost a friend,
like this woman was your good friend.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yeah, and the kids lost mom and dad, and you
know it was sort of you know, is it the
is the end of it? It's the end of it
with the o A. But this story always will go
on with every trial and it'll always be compared to that,
Like I said, the template, but that's what that's what
I released there of the you know, the beacon of
(08:12):
light that she was. And like I said, Ron, and
I hope it's closure for people, which I don't think
it's ever gonna be closure for the Goldman family. Yeah,
I can't answer for the Browns, but I just I
think Kim put a statement.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Out, h.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Ohuld you still live in Brettwood.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Oh no, So I don't live in Brettwhen I actually
where you're taping right now, is I walk because I'm
into Lucal, like the most wonderful around.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah, it's the best.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
So I live there and I do a lot of
the little article shared later just because it's just said
the man, the myth, your neighbor, Kato Kayla, the last Luke.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
At times, I love it because.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, do you ever are people ever like oh my god.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Oh my god. I walk. It's like Norm from Cheers.
So I go out on Riverside Drive.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
It's just I love it because it's very Wisconsin, because
people are friendly.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
It's like hey, Kato. So it's makes me feel fantastic.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Our other studio is very close. It's like right by
Bundy and Gretory. It's very close to everything, all of it.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah, so I I think in the time that I
went to Bundy, it be after the trial.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
It was at least twenty years. I never even went
in that area.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Oh wow, I just didn't just my choice, but I
never did. I just didn't want to even go there.
And then I got my The One Degree Scandal show.
We went on the tour of everything, and I even
declined I wanted the Tom Zander's guy do the show with.
He went there with the sights on Bundy, and so
that was my first time doing it.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I didn't want to do that, like I didn't, But.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Now now I did. I think it's I it was
really healthy for me to do it. So I did it.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
We did the OJ and then it's so it's so
bizarre because we did the episode of Nick Reiner. Rob
Reiner and I used to run a lot. I had
no idea. I used to run by Reiner's house. It's
it's like a minute away from Rocking, It's like a
minute away. And it was that he lived in the
guest house and so we went down there, and sure enough,
(10:28):
as soon as I was doing my stand and doing
our piece, a car went by on one of those
SUV's the tinted windows, and it was the New York
Post and they did a whole interview and I didn't know,
but it's it's so funny how that.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Tragedy in Brentwood.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I don't get it right, right, that's a lot in one.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I actually got married in May twenty one at David
Zucker's house.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
David walked my ride down.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
David did airplane, David did yeh naked scary movie.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Naked guns. Yeah, naked gun. So he walked. We did that.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
He wasn't Retwood. So David, you know, had OJ and
all the naked gun movies. So during my speech I
had said, David, thank you for the use of your
house and thank you for not inviting Nordberg.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
So that's where he.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Was living, right, and yeah, because he's a Wisconsin guy,
we're all Wisconsin.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
What did you think when he was getting arrested for
all the various things afterwards?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
That's a great question. I this is so true. When
you hang around bad people, bad things happen. All the
people at OJ's hanging out with at that time were
we're just like criminal people, and criminal things happened, and
that's why the Vegas you know, we went to prison
in Vegas. That's why that stuff happened. That's why you know,
(11:45):
there was some nine one calls with his daughter in Florida.
There was other fights that happened. It was it was
the that fall from Grace. It was honestly so high
and then it just after the trial, he was a
broken man.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I think he didn't have that. He didn't have that.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
The people that I think adored him were not the
right people that were you want.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
To adore you, Well, he probably was running out of
people to adore him.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Yeah, and I think he probably made I mean, his
pension was never touched from NFL, and I'm sure he
got autograph shows. I don't know financially how he did,
but he still was making a lot of money from
his pension.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Do you know, I think about his kids so much.
Do you know anything about what they're doing today or
how they are this.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
The only thing I heard was that Justin was in
some sort of thing going on in Vegas with the
house with not moving on. It wasn't it wasn't a
good thing. So that's the only thing I heard. I
heard Sydney was in real estate in Florida, and that's
it from what I heard. But I think they're doing okay.
That's no touch of me communicating with them.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
That's what I've heard. Oh man, So okay, after all
of these years, what still doesn't sit right with you
about the case itself and the trial?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I think what I I think it's kind of the jury.
I I think that's it as it stands out, that
I would think that the prosecution didn't feel like they
were horrible about the DNA and how the defense had
bury Shack and I think that he kind of could
prove that, you know, there's contamination, and you know, I
(13:29):
think that wasn't true at all.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I think I think that's the biggest thing about it.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
That's I think turned the trial with the DNA evidence
of it was so much against OJ but somehow this
lawyer could turn it into this is.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
A I And so I agree, I don't know how
that happened.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yeah, and only because I don't take sides. I met
all the detectives. After all these years, I don't I
think there there's no way they would ever try to
plant evidence. People would go is, no, of course it's elither,
it's corrupt. I just don't think that there's there's nothing
that they would have done.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Pretty extreme thing to do. Like when you break down
what their argument, what they were saying actually happened, it's
like that is so extreme for someone to do. Even
the most racist cop ever like Furman, you can't it
just it's it's outrageous.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yeah, it's pretty areous. And how to do it?
Speaker 3 (14:31):
You got to you got to plan there to be
a murder in the first place, to be there, and
you're on call.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
It comes at five eight, at four thirty am. To us,
it's just.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Like no, no one would have thought this out, So
you know this. I also think another thing is there
was so much evidence that I think the worst part
also is the evidence that the prosecution didn't use. I
say this because I met all those people after the fact.
I met a skip Junis, who is the guy whose
wife worked at American Airlines that night, who oj he
(15:01):
was then picking up his wife. He's parked behind the
limo and he watched him go into In the trial,
I described a like a backpack college backpack that He
didn't want me to touch the put in the luggage
because I was closer. He goes, no, I'll get that,
and so that was never found. But Skip Junis saw
him get out of the limo and he couldn't figure
(15:21):
out why he put his hand this far down a
guard into the bag and then that far down a
garbage in the garbage, you know, knowing you throw out
something like this, just down in the garbage, putting this.
And he worked as an advertising agency. He's a completely
trustworthy this guy. Skip Juna Is one of her episodes.
It's amazing that they use that didn't use that. They
(15:44):
didn't use Jill Shively, who saw the Bundy the car.
You know, she didn't get used because supposedly she sold money.
She got money from hard copy.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
But she's there. She called the it's a nine to
one call.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
She called, I think it's drunk driver, and then she
realized she memorized the plate and then she heard the voice.
She goes, she happened to watch Naked Gun that night.
Before she goes, that's oj. He had his lights off
coming through the There was the sand descent in Bundy
coming up that way, and his car went up on
the curb and almost hit her. So she wrote it
(16:20):
down as a drunk driver. Oh god, that was the time.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Why didn't they.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
They thought it was because she sold it that they
the defense could say that, well, she was in it
for the money she made up.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
But the calls on tape and it's it's sort of
like those two very important witnesses were.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Never called right. And that was the same with fay Resnick. Right,
wasn't she not able to testify or something because she
sold her story?
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Or it could have been maybe I don't remember the
faith thing, but yeah, she never called right. I think
sometimes the prosecution has their case. They you know, they
build the case. You know, you go to a grand jury,
then the grand jury, then they go, okay, we can
build the case.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
And they thought they i think, thought they had so.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Much evidence that they didn't need all that because they
found the blood they found these, the glove, the socks
that oh they didn't use the socks upstairs that were
had blood on the all the socks because they were
black socks. And they but they when they did it,
they found they were bloody. They never used those. They
found blood in the in the washing machine.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So this song.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
That's documented, never used. Well, Tom Lang, the detective, became
a friend. He has a book called Evidence Withdrawn. I
think it's called Evidence Dismissed and he explains it all
the evidence that they had that wasn't used, and he
got upset with the prosecution.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I don't write I would be too. That doesn't make
any sense. When when I spoke with Keith, he was
saying that that he was supposed to testify as well,
and then they ultimately said no because it had spun
so out of control with the racial stuff that it
had become about raised exactly, and they worried that they
would use him as an as an example of how okay, Well,
(18:07):
oj knew that you were in a relationship with Nicole
and you were there around him and he never killed
you or never hurt you. So they took him out.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I mean yeah, they had that because they saw he
had sex with her, I guess on a couch and
he was outside watching it. So I think that was
part of the argument, is like why didn't they why
didn't you go crazy?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Then? Right? Right?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
So?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
And I will never know the answer to so many things.
And I said that the correct I'm not going to
correct myself. But Tom Lange does have that book got
so I'm pretty positive stuff about Ducks. It's all in
there because I've met with him many times through the years.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Right, what do you how much do you think celebrity
had to do with this case?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Uh? For the jury?
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Like ninety Percy, like.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
I said, they liked him a lot, they loved they waved.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Yeah, you know, he was the I mean people, he
was charismatic guy, and he was in his films and
he was the hurts guy. He was, you know, and
OJ didn't see himself as black. He's you know, he said,
I'm just I'm not black or white.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I'm OJ. So that was one of his quotes.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
That's the irony of them using race as some sort
of part of this is so crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
So I think, you know, it's I think sometimes a
jury kind of goes in there. I've never been in
a jury, but I think you go back when you're sequestered.
I think it's just so much time, and this is
like ten months, ten and a half months. You're long,
I got it, we got we we have no deed,
nothing we got. So I think they kind of go, okay,
(19:40):
let's just get going. I'll say I agree to that whatever, right,
So you know, that's sort of a tough job.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I think people, really it's a very tough job.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
I think you got to commit to all that time.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, and it's impossible to know.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
What you're And this one was the question they didn't
get to leave which TV and see family?
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I remember seeing Oj. There was a Japanese restaurant on Wheelshire.
I cannot remember the name of it. Yes, big right,
like big yes, yeah, up two floors, I think I
so I used to go in there all the time.
We were sitting at the sushi bar. A friend of
mine and I and OJ came in with a woman
(20:37):
who looked just like Nicole, blonde, thin, sort of had
this scene. This was like, oh sorry. This was about
a year after the verdict, after he was released, and
the the the chefs were like, oh hello, you know,
said hi to him, and the rest of the restaurant
(20:58):
just was and silent, and I'm thinking about her. You're
saying how much he loved that adulation and people and
no one was giving him that except for the chefs
were like saying hello to him, and he was looking
around as if people were admiring him. And I looked
(21:19):
at this young woman and went, what on earth are
you doing? Like, how could this woman be on a
date with this man? And when she looked like she
looked like, I just was dumbfounded. And so to your point,
I feel like people get.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, And I wonder how she did she know?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I mean, I mean, how could she not?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah, exactly a.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Year after yes, I mean, it was still very sad,
or she really like sushi.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
She maybe she is like, I have got to have
some of that. God, have some some hamachi.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
I need some. I heard they got great Spanish mac roll. Okay, yeah, exactly,
now you're paying right, Oh.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
My god, it's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
That's pretty insane, that stuff. I would think.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
He this is the thing he got, probably the biggest
break in his life. He should have been never seen.
He should have just gone to it.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I never been heard of.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
I'd seen it, because what happened was that he should
have known that his life was never going to be
the same and he should have just laid low.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Instead, he had bad people know, you got more crime.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
And he went to jail, and you know, Nevada said
this is how you do it sort of thing, and
he was just like he because he loved to be seen.
When your ego takes over, you're in big trouble.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yep. Yeah, one last question before we talk about what
you're what you're doing now, what did you think about
this book of his If I did it well?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
You know, I read excerpts from it because I was
I wanted to kind of become.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
No sure somebody also has probably asked you to see it.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
So the parts I read if this is not an
admission sort of a guilt, I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
And how I have no idea how the book got made.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Did someone just say we're going to make so much
money in this if if I did? And then the
way he explained it was on that show I think
it was Fox. We had Judth Reagan or whoever was
the interview the person did the book, I think it was.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
It was just like you felt like this man was
so guilty.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
You felt like, if I did it, well, this is
you know, and they they bring up a you know,
there's stuff that's going on now with the trial, because
I'm getting context for the night of that people are
I think they want the story to go on. I
met the detectives they've had over one hundred and fifty detectives.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I think it's O J. Simpson, only o J.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Simpson, but they they want to start doing things with
did OJ have help and that sort of thing. So
there's a story kind of happen. I think it's I
don't know if it'll be mad.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
So there's a.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
So a company called me if I would do an
interview and you know, and I just said, well, here's
my opinion. And then they said, oh, it's a good
that you have an opinion. We're having other people that
will be talking about it. So oh wow, Yeah, it's
it's a bizarre It's like I said, we started this thing.
I think the story continues and continues. Yeah, and if
they can do a show on something, they're going to try.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
To right right, Well, all right, tell us what you're
up to now. I know you have a new show
called Murder in a Minute podcast one Degree of Scandalous,
both great titles, by the way, So tell us where
we can find these things and what I'll tell you what.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
I just started this show called Murder in a Minute
while we're speaking. So it's a week and I have
a friend named Tom Mabe and those watching this world.
Tom Mabe is probably one of the original pranksters. Millions
of followers and social media I've been I did a
radio interview thirty one years ago. He and I never
lost touch from that interview with my world is making laughter,
(25:11):
I'm all but really laughing.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
You really have such a bright spirit like you truly do.
You have such a lightness about.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
You, and I love laughing. So Tom's done.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
You can google it after stuff that I'm guarantee you've
seen that are hilarious. Anyways, he and I said, I
got this idea that I think it's just it's not hilarious,
it's just so part of what's going on in the world.
It's called murder in a minute. So you do these
short form videos and I shot seven six of them
(25:43):
and they just I posted one social media and it
just took off. And now I'm seeing the comments of
people going, is this do more?
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Do more?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
So now is a narrative like what is it? Tell
me what?
Speaker 1 (25:53):
So I sit like.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
We're here with the green screen, I just do it.
One of the stories is, uh, that's doing the really
greatst I talk about Epstein and I said the Tova
Noel is the guard who they found had a five
thousand dollars check and they found out that that she
was a security guard and then her in her partner,
I guess supposedly went up. Prosecutors saw they fudge the
(26:18):
numbers on their their duty of checking at night. The understanding,
so we go, I go, did he commit suicide?
Speaker 1 (26:27):
I sort of asked a question to the audience. I
have to see it. We do.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
The one on Austin Metcalf was the in Frisco, Texas
at the swap at the track meet who was stabbed
by Carmelo Anthony. And you know, he had a twin
and he was just good looking kid. He got it
right in the heart and.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
It was Anthony on the BASKETBA player.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Carmarl Anthony is the other guy's name too, it's different.
Was Carmelo with a K And this one show was
a high school track meet and so the guy had
a knife in his backpack when because he was sitting
in the uh Austin in the story to say he
was sitting in the other team's tent and Austin asked
him to leave, and it got to a gotten such
(27:08):
an anger that he did this.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
So now that's going to trial.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
So I said, as one family prepares for a funeral,
the other prepares for a murder trial. Once again, it'll
be a huge trial in Texas's Uh wow, it's so
these stories and you kind of can tell the stories
because there everybody's interested on social media and these stories
and Murder in a Minute and Tom's and Louisville. But
he flies out every other week and we just tape
(27:34):
here into look a.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Lake and so we can find this on right now.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Well, we're gonna YouTube because Murder a Minute and you
can go also on my social media Cato Underscore Kalin
on Instagram and Twitter. And after this, I have two
companies that I'll meet with and Thomas companies because he
has influencers to do this, and it's a break for
him because he wants to do something different from all
(27:59):
the comedy.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
So that's the thing that's going on.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
And honestly, it's I'm so proud. It's really really well done.
And I'm not just saying because I'm in it.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
It's just great compelling. So I'm gonna make you watch one.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I will. I definitely will.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Then I do a long podcast, which is usually an
hour show, and we do uh it's called One Degree
of scandalis Tom Zenter and Tom is a broadcaster. He
was an NBC Sports in Chicago, Boston, the News and Phoenix,
so he's sort of the play by play and I'm
the color on.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
The Got It and that's on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
It's called One Degree of Scandalists and that's doing great
with subscriptions.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
And and that's about something scared.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
That's scared. Well, no, that's pretty much murder.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
But we talk about uh, current and past, so we
do we so like the Menendez we actually go to
the sites of where the Menana's brothers went from the
house that whole night, and we go to the sites
of Richard Ramirror's We people love that we actually go
out and go to the actual sites and say this
is where he ate, this is the night.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
So we go there.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
But then we go Instant Studio and we talk about it,
and then we get most of the directors from Netflix series,
or we will get detectives that were interviewed in the series.
And once again people love love that there's the true
crime and we're speaking right to the to the people
that are part of That's why Tom Lang from the
Simpson Trius on my show a few times and my
(29:20):
relationship is became great friends. And we did a public
speaking I've gotten two engagements. We did the UH Seaside
Detective Association Monterey and Carmel, so kind of near you,
and it was like so cathartic that I was speaking
to detectives and police and they loved it.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, and I'm sure I mean.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, they was uh.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
And then we had Tom lang Is, this detective who
did the Hillside Strangler.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
He did part of the.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
What was the mal Vell Kilmer but the up on Wonderland.
So we did all the time we go there and
I love doing it. So we do those twice.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
A week and great. I will definitely in this.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Murder in a Minute.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
I'm so proud because this is my baby. I've been
thought thought about for a long time.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Amazing. Well, congrats, I am.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
So statoo John Kato.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
I am so happy to officially really meet you, and
I really appreciate you taking the time to come here
and talk with me. And I am definitely checking out
Murder in a Minute and one Degree of Scandalous and
the people V O. J. Simpson America Crime Story is
still streaming on Hulu. Cato your brand. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
You're fantastic too. I'm so glad we met. This is fantastic.
Give me those feats.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Now that I won't be able to stand up.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
She's wonderful. Thanks for having me.
Amy roboc and TJ.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan. Hey, everyone,
welcome back to Killer Thriller. We're jumping back into our
conversation with Kato Kaelin, who ended up at the center
of one of the biggest trials in history. From what
that night actually felt like to how it's been portrayed
(00:29):
ever since, there is a lot more to unpack with Kato,
what he saw, what he lived through, and how he
looks at all of it. Now, what's the one misconception
that drives you the craziest that people think? Like as
a public.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yeah, I suppose because it doesn't bother me anymore because
I'm older and I'm very secure. But back then, because
I saw what the painting costs my mom, my family,
that there is this thing back in current affair, that
I was a drug dealer and I say this, Oh
my gosh, I've never and by the way, people will say,
I've never done a drug in my entire life, I
(01:04):
swear to God and people.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Because I had long hair, so it was like.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Oh man, I was kind of gappy, but I was like, okay,
and if I have a beer, that's rare.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I have a.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Back then, I maybe a beer in a month. Now
I can have a beer in a week or whatever.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I just don't. I don't know which.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
It's not even it's just like, oh my god, I'm
not that that guy. And people go, oh, I saw you,
you did coc and all that. I said, No, I
never proved proved something to me. That's what people want
to just say things. So it was that would be
the thing. And I've got friends that do drugs and
smoke pot all the time. I have nothing against that's
their thing, right, So I'm still friends with them.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Like it's not it's not me, right do you have?
So you have a daughter? How old your daughter?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
My daughter now is? She doesn't want to tell her age?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Oh she doesn't.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Okay, Oh she's she's uh in her late thirties. Late thirties.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
That doesn't seem possible that you could considering. Yeah, quite handsome.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
She she's in the cart.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
But what does she think about all of this?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
She was, she's the greatest Tiffany. She's amazing.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
So when she's a kid during the trot, and I'd
pick her up and not with her mom anymore, but
I'd pick her up and all that she thought it
was kind of cool like that, and maybe her teachers knew,
maybe the kids knew from that and they thought, okay,
it gives her some points.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
But I say, Tiff done, this is not good.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
And then the only bad part is there this time
it was I couldn't really even go out because at
that time, sure it was it was like a like
a beatle Mania, but people could go bad on me
or good on me. And it was it was crazy.
I mean, where I lived, I had notes under the
door that I had the tmzs were out there. It
was you have to back in ninety four ninety five,
(02:54):
it was it was insane. Yeah, it was insane.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, So it was everything everywhere all the time. Time
there was that.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I was an int I became an introvert. I hated it.
Oh so when.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
She come by for the weekends and a halver, it
would be we just kind of had to hang out
at home, so we'd go out and all that, but
it was it was hard. So that was kind of
hard on her. But she's the greatest sense of humor.
She's very funny.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, So does she ask you about it now? Is
it still a no?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Not really, She's busying her own stuff that goes on
in life.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, my own life, dad. Yeah. Do you think that
people would look at the case differently today than the nineties.
Do you think that we like, if this were to
happen today, it would be a different trial.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
It would be a completely different trial. I mean they would.
It depends. It really is important to where the trial
takes place, like a downtown compared to Santa Monica.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
I think they'd look at that.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
I think you kind of look at it a trial
of if it's an election year, because I think prosecutors
or whatever that's going the das, they all want to
have it so they have a case that gets them votes.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So I think that's all depends.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
But the advancements now of technology, because we do I
do shows we've had the best people in genealogy and
it's amazing because you cannot you can't get away with crime.
I think they'll find a match somehow, and we do
the stories of someone in your family. You can match
it up now. It's just incredible. So crime is like
(04:25):
the people have to be insane. I think they want
to have to be caught just they want to. I'll
tell you something that's amazing because you know you're doing
a crime show, and I do this crime. If you
go on I'm addicted to I find stories a lout
on ex Twitter, So if you just go on there,
(04:46):
you'll be blown away out. Every day there's a killing
you won't believe is happening, and you just go what
humanity is sick?
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Right, stuff that you would never even you can't believe.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah, I think that. I wonder if it's like, are
these things happening more or is it just that we
have exposure to that?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I think both.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I think it happened more, but the exposure makes it. Yeah,
And I think the more people become immune to it
makes it easier for them to do it, like, oh,
it's a no right thing. I'll shoot up a school
and it's it's sort of like nothing. I mean think
about it.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Does anything? Could anything surprise you? Now? What could be?
I mean Martians coming down?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Man, But it's I'm ready for anything now, right.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
What was harder for you testifying or watching yourself testify
later on TV?
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Oh, testifying ten times harder, because I really I don't
think I've ever gone back to watch me testifying Zeptan shows.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
I didn't watch the tapes.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
It was testifying because I'll never forget the feeling of
the attorney I had at the time of doing a
four am wake up to do a run before and.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Getting down there.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I was down there when I satisfied, I was actually
down there a lot more waiting in this room.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Closet.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Basically he sat there waiting to see you because I
was on call.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
So I just know. It screwed up my stomach big time.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
So I'm a very high strong person and I want
to make sure he did everything proper and it's just
right because I just wanted to justice to happen. So
I it just destroyed my insides.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I bet yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
And now at that time, it was the hard copies
and the current affairs that would have a story all time.
And when they ran that guy who used to go
on the all time saying I sold him drug, it
was whatever it was, and I was just go, oh
my god, this isn't true. So I kept had the
attorney go to the shows, have that person come face
to face, and I want this, yeah, And then they
(06:42):
turn out supposedly it turned out to be a producer
that was trying to.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Like egging him, trying to get.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
In the silhouette was actually a producer of some show
trying to do it for the ratings.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So there's a lot of things that were happenings.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
What how how did you feel when OJ died?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
You know, I released something. Every I got my phone
was going off and all the shows. When I just said, uh,
what I should do? I called some confided my really
great friends, and they kind of just said, why don't
you just put out your own like tweet social thing.
I did a thirty second and I said, it's never
for the kids. I said, it's never hard to lose
a parent. My heart goes on to the kids. And
(07:28):
I said, Nicole's a beacon of light. And I didn't
know Ron, but I'm sure that I hopefully brings closure
of these beautiful people that lost their lives. And I just,
I just I think that was the right thing to say. Yeah,
and just that, I.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Mean, this is another piece that sort of gets lost
that through all of this that you lost a friend,
like this woman was your good friend.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Yeah, and the kids lost mom and dad, and you
know it was sort of you know, is it the
is the end of it? It's the end of it
with the o A. But this story always will go
on with every trial and it'll always be compared to that,
Like I said, the template, but that's what that's what
I released there of the you know, the beacon of
(08:12):
light that she was. And like I said, Ron, and
I hope it's closure for people, which I don't think
it's ever gonna be closure for the Goldman family. Yeah,
I can't answer for the Browns, but I just I
think Kim put a statement.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Out, h.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Ohuld you still live in Brettwood.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Oh no, So I don't live in Brettwhen I actually
where you're taping right now, is I walk because I'm
into Lucal, like the most wonderful around.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Yeah, it's the best.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
So I live there and I do a lot of
the little article shared later just because it's just said
the man, the myth, your neighbor, Kato Kayla, the last Luke.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
At times, I love it because.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, do you ever are people ever like oh my god.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Oh my god. I walk. It's like Norm from Cheers.
So I go out on Riverside Drive.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
It's just I love it because it's very Wisconsin, because
people are friendly.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
It's like hey, Kato. So it's makes me feel fantastic.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Our other studio is very close. It's like right by
Bundy and Gretory. It's very close to everything, all of it.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah, so I I think in the time that I
went to Bundy, it be after the trial.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
It was at least twenty years. I never even went
in that area.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Oh wow, I just didn't just my choice, but I
never did. I just didn't want to even go there.
And then I got my The One Degree Scandal show.
We went on the tour of everything, and I even
declined I wanted the Tom Zander's guy do the show with.
He went there with the sights on Bundy, and so
that was my first time doing it.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
I didn't want to do that, like I didn't, But.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Now now I did. I think it's I it was
really healthy for me to do it. So I did it.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
We did the OJ and then it's so it's so
bizarre because we did the episode of Nick Reiner. Rob
Reiner and I used to run a lot. I had
no idea. I used to run by Reiner's house. It's
it's like a minute away from Rocking, It's like a
minute away. And it was that he lived in the
guest house and so we went down there, and sure enough,
(10:28):
as soon as I was doing my stand and doing
our piece, a car went by on one of those
SUV's the tinted windows, and it was the New York
Post and they did a whole interview and I didn't know,
but it's it's so funny how that.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Tragedy in Brentwood.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I don't get it right, right, that's a lot in one.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I actually got married in May twenty one at David
Zucker's house.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
David walked my ride down.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
David did airplane, David did yeh naked scary movie.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Naked guns. Yeah, naked gun. So he walked. We did that.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
He wasn't Retwood. So David, you know, had OJ and
all the naked gun movies. So during my speech I
had said, David, thank you for the use of your
house and thank you for not inviting Nordberg.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
So that's where he.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Was living, right, and yeah, because he's a Wisconsin guy,
we're all Wisconsin.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
What did you think when he was getting arrested for
all the various things afterwards?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
That's a great question. I this is so true. When
you hang around bad people, bad things happen. All the
people at OJ's hanging out with at that time were
we're just like criminal people, and criminal things happened, and
that's why the Vegas you know, we went to prison
in Vegas. That's why that stuff happened. That's why you know,
(11:45):
there was some nine one calls with his daughter in Florida.
There was other fights that happened. It was it was
the that fall from Grace. It was honestly so high
and then it just after the trial, he was a
broken man.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I think he didn't have that. He didn't have that.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
The people that I think adored him were not the
right people that were you want.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
To adore you, Well, he probably was running out of
people to adore him.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Yeah, and I think he probably made I mean, his
pension was never touched from NFL, and I'm sure he
got autograph shows. I don't know financially how he did,
but he still was making a lot of money from
his pension.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Do you know, I think about his kids so much.
Do you know anything about what they're doing today or
how they are this.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
The only thing I heard was that Justin was in
some sort of thing going on in Vegas with the
house with not moving on. It wasn't it wasn't a
good thing. So that's the only thing I heard. I
heard Sydney was in real estate in Florida, and that's
it from what I heard. But I think they're doing okay.
That's no touch of me communicating with them.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
That's what I've heard. Oh man, So okay, after all
of these years, what still doesn't sit right with you
about the case itself and the trial?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I think what I I think it's kind of the jury.
I I think that's it as it stands out, that
I would think that the prosecution didn't feel like they
were horrible about the DNA and how the defense had
bury Shack and I think that he kind of could
prove that, you know, there's contamination, and you know, I
(13:29):
think that wasn't true at all.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I think I think that's the biggest thing about it.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
That's I think turned the trial with the DNA evidence
of it was so much against OJ but somehow this
lawyer could turn it into this is.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
A I And so I agree, I don't know how
that happened.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yeah, and only because I don't take sides. I met
all the detectives. After all these years, I don't I
think there there's no way they would ever try to
plant evidence. People would go is, no, of course it's elither,
it's corrupt. I just don't think that there's there's nothing
that they would have done.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Pretty extreme thing to do. Like when you break down
what their argument, what they were saying actually happened, it's
like that is so extreme for someone to do. Even
the most racist cop ever like Furman, you can't it
just it's it's outrageous.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yeah, it's pretty areous. And how to do it?
Speaker 3 (14:31):
You got to you got to plan there to be
a murder in the first place, to be there, and
you're on call.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
It comes at five eight, at four thirty am. To us,
it's just.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Like no, no one would have thought this out, So
you know this. I also think another thing is there
was so much evidence that I think the worst part
also is the evidence that the prosecution didn't use. I
say this because I met all those people after the fact.
I met a skip Junis, who is the guy whose
wife worked at American Airlines that night, who oj he
(15:01):
was then picking up his wife. He's parked behind the
limo and he watched him go into In the trial,
I described a like a backpack college backpack that He
didn't want me to touch the put in the luggage
because I was closer. He goes, no, I'll get that,
and so that was never found. But Skip Junis saw
him get out of the limo and he couldn't figure
(15:21):
out why he put his hand this far down a
guard into the bag and then that far down a
garbage in the garbage, you know, knowing you throw out
something like this, just down in the garbage, putting this.
And he worked as an advertising agency. He's a completely
trustworthy this guy. Skip Juna Is one of her episodes.
It's amazing that they use that didn't use that. They
(15:44):
didn't use Jill Shively, who saw the Bundy the car.
You know, she didn't get used because supposedly she sold money.
She got money from hard copy.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
But she's there. She called the it's a nine to
one call.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
She called, I think it's drunk driver, and then she
realized she memorized the plate and then she heard the voice.
She goes, she happened to watch Naked Gun that night.
Before she goes, that's oj. He had his lights off
coming through the There was the sand descent in Bundy
coming up that way, and his car went up on
the curb and almost hit her. So she wrote it
(16:20):
down as a drunk driver. Oh god, that was the time.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Why didn't they.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
They thought it was because she sold it that they
the defense could say that, well, she was in it
for the money she made up.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
But the calls on tape and it's it's sort of
like those two very important witnesses were.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Never called right. And that was the same with fay Resnick. Right,
wasn't she not able to testify or something because she
sold her story?
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Or it could have been maybe I don't remember the
faith thing, but yeah, she never called right. I think
sometimes the prosecution has their case. They you know, they
build the case. You know, you go to a grand jury,
then the grand jury, then they go, okay, we can
build the case.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
And they thought they i think, thought they had so.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Much evidence that they didn't need all that because they
found the blood they found these, the glove, the socks
that oh they didn't use the socks upstairs that were
had blood on the all the socks because they were
black socks. And they but they when they did it,
they found they were bloody. They never used those. They
found blood in the in the washing machine.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So this song.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
That's documented, never used. Well, Tom Lang, the detective, became
a friend. He has a book called Evidence Withdrawn. I
think it's called Evidence Dismissed and he explains it all
the evidence that they had that wasn't used, and he
got upset with the prosecution.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I don't write I would be too. That doesn't make
any sense. When when I spoke with Keith, he was
saying that that he was supposed to testify as well,
and then they ultimately said no because it had spun
so out of control with the racial stuff that it
had become about raised exactly, and they worried that they
would use him as an as an example of how okay, Well,
(18:07):
oj knew that you were in a relationship with Nicole
and you were there around him and he never killed
you or never hurt you. So they took him out.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I mean yeah, they had that because they saw he
had sex with her, I guess on a couch and
he was outside watching it. So I think that was
part of the argument, is like why didn't they why
didn't you go crazy?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Then? Right? Right?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
So?
Speaker 3 (18:29):
And I will never know the answer to so many things.
And I said that the correct I'm not going to
correct myself. But Tom Lange does have that book got
so I'm pretty positive stuff about Ducks. It's all in
there because I've met with him many times through the years.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Right, what do you how much do you think celebrity
had to do with this case?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Uh? For the jury?
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Like ninety Percy, like.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
I said, they liked him a lot, they loved they waved.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Yeah, you know, he was the I mean people, he
was charismatic guy, and he was in his films and
he was the hurts guy. He was, you know, and
OJ didn't see himself as black. He's you know, he said,
I'm just I'm not black or white.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I'm OJ. So that was one of his quotes.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
That's the irony of them using race as some sort
of part of this is so crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
So I think, you know, it's I think sometimes a
jury kind of goes in there. I've never been in
a jury, but I think you go back when you're sequestered.
I think it's just so much time, and this is
like ten months, ten and a half months. You're long,
I got it, we got we we have no deed,
nothing we got. So I think they kind of go, okay,
(19:40):
let's just get going. I'll say I agree to that whatever, right,
So you know, that's sort of a tough job.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I think people, really it's a very tough job.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
I think you got to commit to all that time.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, and it's impossible to know.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
What you're And this one was the question they didn't
get to leave which TV and see family?
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I remember seeing Oj. There was a Japanese restaurant on Wheelshire.
I cannot remember the name of it. Yes, big right,
like big yes, yeah, up two floors, I think I
so I used to go in there all the time.
We were sitting at the sushi bar. A friend of
mine and I and OJ came in with a woman
(20:37):
who looked just like Nicole, blonde, thin, sort of had
this scene. This was like, oh sorry. This was about
a year after the verdict, after he was released, and
the the the chefs were like, oh hello, you know,
said hi to him, and the rest of the restaurant
(20:58):
just was and silent, and I'm thinking about her. You're
saying how much he loved that adulation and people and
no one was giving him that except for the chefs
were like saying hello to him, and he was looking
around as if people were admiring him. And I looked
(21:19):
at this young woman and went, what on earth are
you doing? Like, how could this woman be on a
date with this man? And when she looked like she
looked like, I just was dumbfounded. And so to your point,
I feel like people get.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, And I wonder how she did she know?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I mean, I mean, how could she not?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah, exactly a.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Year after yes, I mean, it was still very sad,
or she really like sushi.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
She maybe she is like, I have got to have
some of that. God, have some some hamachi.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
I need some. I heard they got great Spanish mac roll. Okay, yeah, exactly,
now you're paying right, Oh.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
My god, it's so crazy.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
That's pretty insane, that stuff. I would think.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
He this is the thing he got, probably the biggest
break in his life. He should have been never seen.
He should have just gone to it.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I never been heard of.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
I'd seen it, because what happened was that he should
have known that his life was never going to be
the same and he should have just laid low.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Instead, he had bad people know, you got more crime.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
And he went to jail, and you know, Nevada said
this is how you do it sort of thing, and
he was just like he because he loved to be seen.
When your ego takes over, you're in big trouble.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yep. Yeah, one last question before we talk about what
you're what you're doing now, what did you think about
this book of his If I did it well?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
You know, I read excerpts from it because I was
I wanted to kind of become.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
No sure somebody also has probably asked you to see it.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
So the parts I read if this is not an
admission sort of a guilt, I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
And how I have no idea how the book got made.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Did someone just say we're going to make so much
money in this if if I did? And then the
way he explained it was on that show I think
it was Fox. We had Judth Reagan or whoever was
the interview the person did the book, I think it was.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
It was just like you felt like this man was
so guilty.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
You felt like, if I did it, well, this is
you know, and they they bring up a you know,
there's stuff that's going on now with the trial, because
I'm getting context for the night of that people are
I think they want the story to go on. I
met the detectives they've had over one hundred and fifty detectives.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I think it's O J. Simpson, only o J.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Simpson, but they they want to start doing things with
did OJ have help and that sort of thing. So
there's a story kind of happen. I think it's I
don't know if it'll be mad.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
So there's a.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
So a company called me if I would do an
interview and you know, and I just said, well, here's
my opinion. And then they said, oh, it's a good
that you have an opinion. We're having other people that
will be talking about it. So oh wow, Yeah, it's
it's a bizarre It's like I said, we started this thing.
I think the story continues and continues. Yeah, and if
they can do a show on something, they're going to try.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
To right right, Well, all right, tell us what you're
up to now. I know you have a new show
called Murder in a Minute podcast one Degree of Scandalous,
both great titles, by the way, So tell us where
we can find these things and what I'll tell you what.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
I just started this show called Murder in a Minute
while we're speaking. So it's a week and I have
a friend named Tom Mabe and those watching this world.
Tom Mabe is probably one of the original pranksters. Millions
of followers and social media I've been I did a
radio interview thirty one years ago. He and I never
lost touch from that interview with my world is making laughter,
(25:11):
I'm all but really laughing.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
You really have such a bright spirit like you truly do.
You have such a lightness about.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
You, and I love laughing. So Tom's done.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
You can google it after stuff that I'm guarantee you've
seen that are hilarious. Anyways, he and I said, I
got this idea that I think it's just it's not hilarious,
it's just so part of what's going on in the world.
It's called murder in a minute. So you do these
short form videos and I shot seven six of them
(25:43):
and they just I posted one social media and it
just took off. And now I'm seeing the comments of
people going, is this do more?
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Do more?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
So now is a narrative like what is it? Tell
me what?
Speaker 1 (25:53):
So I sit like.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
We're here with the green screen, I just do it.
One of the stories is, uh, that's doing the really
greatst I talk about Epstein and I said the Tova
Noel is the guard who they found had a five
thousand dollars check and they found out that that she
was a security guard and then her in her partner,
I guess supposedly went up. Prosecutors saw they fudge the
(26:18):
numbers on their their duty of checking at night. The understanding,
so we go, I go, did he commit suicide?
Speaker 1 (26:27):
I sort of asked a question to the audience. I
have to see it. We do.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
The one on Austin Metcalf was the in Frisco, Texas
at the swap at the track meet who was stabbed
by Carmelo Anthony. And you know, he had a twin
and he was just good looking kid. He got it
right in the heart and.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
It was Anthony on the BASKETBA player.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Carmarl Anthony is the other guy's name too, it's different.
Was Carmelo with a K And this one show was
a high school track meet and so the guy had
a knife in his backpack when because he was sitting
in the uh Austin in the story to say he
was sitting in the other team's tent and Austin asked
him to leave, and it got to a gotten such
(27:08):
an anger that he did this.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
So now that's going to trial.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
So I said, as one family prepares for a funeral,
the other prepares for a murder trial. Once again, it'll
be a huge trial in Texas's Uh wow, it's so
these stories and you kind of can tell the stories
because there everybody's interested on social media and these stories
and Murder in a Minute and Tom's and Louisville. But
he flies out every other week and we just tape
(27:34):
here into look a.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Lake and so we can find this on right now.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Well, we're gonna YouTube because Murder a Minute and you
can go also on my social media Cato Underscore Kalin
on Instagram and Twitter. And after this, I have two
companies that I'll meet with and Thomas companies because he
has influencers to do this, and it's a break for
him because he wants to do something different from all
(27:59):
the comedy.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
So that's the thing that's going on.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
And honestly, it's I'm so proud. It's really really well done.
And I'm not just saying because I'm in it.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
It's just great compelling. So I'm gonna make you watch one.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
I will. I definitely will.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Then I do a long podcast, which is usually an
hour show, and we do uh it's called One Degree
of scandalis Tom Zenter and Tom is a broadcaster. He
was an NBC Sports in Chicago, Boston, the News and Phoenix,
so he's sort of the play by play and I'm
the color on.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
The Got It and that's on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
It's called One Degree of Scandalists and that's doing great
with subscriptions.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
And and that's about something scared.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
That's scared. Well, no, that's pretty much murder.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
But we talk about uh, current and past, so we
do we so like the Menendez we actually go to
the sites of where the Menana's brothers went from the
house that whole night, and we go to the sites
of Richard Ramirror's We people love that we actually go
out and go to the actual sites and say this
is where he ate, this is the night.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
So we go there.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
But then we go Instant Studio and we talk about it,
and then we get most of the directors from Netflix series,
or we will get detectives that were interviewed in the series.
And once again people love love that there's the true
crime and we're speaking right to the to the people
that are part of That's why Tom Lang from the
Simpson Trius on my show a few times and my
(29:20):
relationship is became great friends. And we did a public
speaking I've gotten two engagements. We did the UH Seaside
Detective Association Monterey and Carmel, so kind of near you,
and it was like so cathartic that I was speaking
to detectives and police and they loved it.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, and I'm sure I mean.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, they was uh.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
And then we had Tom lang Is, this detective who
did the Hillside Strangler.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
He did part of the.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
What was the mal Vell Kilmer but the up on Wonderland.
So we did all the time we go there and
I love doing it. So we do those twice.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
A week and great. I will definitely in this.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Murder in a Minute.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
I'm so proud because this is my baby. I've been
thought thought about for a long time.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Amazing. Well, congrats, I am.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
So statoo John Kato.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
I am so happy to officially really meet you, and
I really appreciate you taking the time to come here
and talk with me. And I am definitely checking out
Murder in a Minute and one Degree of Scandalous and
the people V O. J. Simpson America Crime Story is
still streaming on Hulu. Cato your brand. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
You're fantastic too. I'm so glad we met. This is fantastic.
Give me those feats.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Now that I won't be able to stand up.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
She's wonderful. Thanks for having me.
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