July 24, 2024 • 46 mins
We are getting in the Olympic spirit!
T.J and Amy sit down with Briana Scurry, a two-time Olympic gold medalist and starting goalkeeper for the United States women's national soccer team at the 1995 World Cup, 1996 Summer Olympics, 1999 World Cup, 2003 World Cup, and the 2004 Summer Olympic Games.
In one of Briana’s darkest times of her life, she pawned off her two gold medals. Find out the details of her story and find out how she got the medals back.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, folks, Well, where were you on July tenth, nineteen
ninety nine. Oh, you don't remember where you were that
day because it was twenty five years ago. Well what
if I say, where were you when Brandy Chassain made
that goal to give the US women the World Cup?
Now do you remember where you were? Well, our guest
(00:25):
today remembers where she was because she was on the
field when it happened. And welcome to this episode of
Amy and TJ Worlds. You have seen me a lot
once we get going here and our we oftentimes greet
our guests. If they're on zoom, we'll say hello to them,
just to you know, get a couple of pleasantries out
of the way. You have seen me greet a lot
of our guests. Describe the greeting I just gave her.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
It was loud and enthusiastic and genuinely filled with just joy.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah, I am as giddy as it gets because there
are moments, there are so many moments in our lives
where they sometimes they're tragic that you know exactly where
you were. This is one of unbridled joy that collectively
I think we had as a country twenty five years
ago that put us on a path now. Quite frankly,
folks don't even understand why they love women's soccer right now.
(01:14):
That might be some kids that don't even realize why
they were introduced to it and how it came about.
But that team twenty five years ago was everything to
dud just women's soccer, but maybe just women's athletics in
this country.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
It's so true.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I think I've never that was like the first time
I think as a woman I felt proud of a
female team in a way that I mean, I obviously
personally had nothing to do with it, but just the
fact that we could and we did, and there were
those of us proving other people wrong, that not only
were we capable of such incredible acts of athleticism, but
(01:49):
that people cared, people watched, and it mattered, and that
was huge for little girls everywhere. I love what people
I read somewhere someone wrote about this team, this US
women's soccer team, It is the team that taught America
to love soccer.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, And I just thought that was such a perfect
way to put it.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
That is so true. And again, I grew up. We
both grew up in the side. We grew up in
places where it was Friday night lights football football, football, football.
We didn't grow up my parents are. Never a moment
in my life ever crossed my mind that I would
play soccer. But I'm watching this team now, and I
watched every pretty much everything. So it was one of
those do you remember where you were? And this sounds crazy,
(02:30):
I was. I was in Red Lobster.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
You were working You worked at Red Lobster? Were you
working there?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Ninety nine? It was my senior year of college and
I worked at Red Lobster. The shirt and everything had
fish on it. Yes, But back then and in Arkansas,
there was you remember the days when restaurants used to
have a smoking or non smoking segment. Yes, I don't
have that anymore, but at Red Lobster and Fetville Arkins,
(03:00):
the smoking section is the one that had the TV.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
So I had to go into that section where the
bar was to get drinks from my tables. People were
struggling to get their drinks that night because as you
walked out, the TV was above that walkway, so I
would stop and stare at the screen and watch the
game instead of delivering the butt light to the table.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yeah, how were your tips that night?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I don't think I did well and I didn't care,
but we got all into it and caught up and
watched that moment. But look, we talked about Caitlin Clark
these days. We talked about the WNBA and some of
the superstars there. But these were the first superstars I
remember in my life that were women that I looked
(03:44):
up to, female athletes. That is, that was a first
in my life at the time.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Oh my gosh, yes, Mia Hamm.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
We mentioned Ry Chastain and uh wait, wasn't there someone
else who was very pivotal when things come down to
pks and you're holding your breast and you think, oh
my god, I can't imagine being the kicker or the goalkeeper.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Or the goalkeeper and the goalkeeper. Now, if folks take
folks back to that that match, it went full time.
That means they play a full match, an extra time
and the US women and China did not score. It
was zero zero, so we're going to penalty kicks. Everybody
made the penalty kip except for one young lady from China.
(04:31):
She was stopped by the US goalkeeper. And that I
know that that Brandy Chastain moment is iconic and it
will forever be there. But the only reason that moment
could happen is because of a moment that Brianna Scurry
allowed to happen. She is the goalkeeper of that team.
She's a two time goal medalist, World Cup champion, author
(04:53):
of the book My Greatest Save, and she is a
Soccer Hall of Famer. And what else is she?
Speaker 4 (04:58):
She's here?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I mean if you all could have heard DJ say,
oh my god, hello and yes, we are so honored
Brianna to have you here with us. It is just
your smiling face. If everyone could see the beautiful backdrop
you have, what a cool room, You've got your jerseys
behind you, and just you know, you are not just
(05:23):
an inspiration on the field, you have been one off
the field because you have had quite the journey, as
so many professional athletes do, coming from such highs and
then having to deal with what happens after you had
a traumatic injury, a traumatic brain injury.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
And to be where you are now.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Just congratulations on all of your success and the young
women and boys i'm sure too, who you still inspire
to this day.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
So thank you for all that.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
You continue to do in keeping kids active and giving
them hope and inspiration. Anybody, if they put their heart
and mind to it, can be what they want to be.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
Is there anywhere I could possibly take the two of
you on the road with me to do my intros
for my speaking engagement?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Will everybody needs a hype man, We will be your
hype couple.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Okay, I'm going to Phoenix tomorrow. Will you meet me there?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
You guys?
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Hell, yeah, we are free as of this moment.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
You guys are great. Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's so crazy that it's twenty
five years A and B. That basically means that it
was like half my life ago. So that's kind of
nutty as well. And I love that when TJ was
at the Red Lobster because my mom loved her some
red Lobster. That's hilarious. And it's great to be here
and Amy, great to see.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
You as well.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
You guys are I'm big fans of yours as well,
So it's really awesome to be on with you guys today.
That moment was incredible, I mean, it really was. But
what's even more interesting about that moment, and TJ mentioned it,
how normally a person when they think about where they
were wins, something happened. It's usually tragic, you know, it's
usually a tragedy of some sort, but this time, for us,
(07:06):
it's one of one of joy great joy to be
an American that day.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
So it was awesome.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
I mean, we not only impacted young girls all over
the country but all over the world, really made them
see what they could be, uh, you know, in time.
And also it was so funny for me to meet
grown men in the airports in the years after, you know,
come up to me and tell me their story about
(07:32):
where they were, and they were all emotional, you know,
they're like and I was at the cabin with my
buddies and we were like just jumping up and down
when you guys won, and it was awesome. I've never
seen female sports before in my life, but that was awesome.
Made me cry, and so stuff like that. It really
is rewarding to here.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, I was one of those guys. Yes we have
we have a group. Well you know, but what what
how long did it take you when, oh, did you
have a good idea in the moment? Just how big
the moment was, because I mean maybe, I mean we
were all watching and we were collected and seeing this
was a cool moment, but it has to a lot
(08:10):
of ways changed the course of history of athletics in
this country in a lot of ways. How long did
it take you to realize how big of a deal
that that was?
Speaker 5 (08:20):
Well, I feel that anybody on my team, except for
Julie that says they understood what the moment was, I
don't think they really did.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And I am one of those that didn't.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
I mean, in terms of big moments, it was literally
one save out of a thousand, right, But it was
the moment that when the save was under the circumstances,
it was under the one hundred and seven degrees on
the pitch, ninety thousand people holding their collective breath about,
you know, after all this overtime, and so it was
(08:52):
like the save herd around the world, and the rippled
effect of that is really immeasurable in my opinion. I mean,
back then, they didn't have women's athletic divisions and stores
like Lululemon and Nike and Athleta like. Those things didn't
exist back then, and now they do. All the other
countries around the world now put resources into their women's
(09:14):
teams at the national level.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
They didn't really before.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
All these other countries are really you know, trying to
fund that, and it matters now. In FIFA for example
as well, the governing body for soccer, we were just
like an afterthought. They didn't even let us use the
name FIFA Women's World Cup until fairly recently, right before
that tournament. And so that's really what it means. Things
(09:39):
just keep reverberating throughout and all the players now. I
just was in New Jersey the other day and I
met Alissa Naiir's mom, who's a goalkeeper on the team now,
and she told me, and this is what's really cool
about it. She told me that she and her daughter
were at the game in the Meadowlands the nineteen ninety nine,
(10:02):
the first game we played, and she was like eight
years old, Oh wow, nine years old, and she said
that they were there and she said thank you to
me for changing the trajectory of her daughter's Lifewhile. Yeah,
that's the kind of stuff that it's been and how
it's affected people, and that's the kind of stuff I
didn't quite understand.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
At the time.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, I mean, you know, it wasn't even that long
ago that kick like a girl throw like a girl,
run like a girl was a negative thing that you
said to somebody. You weren't trying hard enough, you weren't
doing it strong enough, you weren't doing it fast enough,
and you all proved everybody wrong and things started to
shift from that moment on looking back and just seeing
(10:46):
how you came up, you had so many firsts. I
love that you were the baby of nine kids too,
by the way, yess awesome. But you were the only
girl on a boys football team. You were the only
black girl on this soccer team. Who did you look to?
Who could you even potentially have modeled yourself after? How
(11:07):
did you know that you could do it? You could
be the one?
Speaker 5 (11:10):
Well? I got really lucky, to tell you the truth,
My mom and dad were truly my initial inspiration and support.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
My dad always used to say, always be first.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
And at the time he was telling me that, he
was referring.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
To the bus stop. He's like, oh, get out.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
There, don't wait to the bus you know comes And
I'm like, Dad, well, we're all going to get on
the bus.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
And he's like no, He's like, you want to be
the first one in line.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
And I was like, all right, fine, you know, and
I was like, And then he also would always tell
me to keep my eye on the ball.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
And at the time, I was like, what are you
talking about?
Speaker 5 (11:44):
What ball?
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Like, like, what do you mean by that?
Speaker 5 (11:46):
But he was instilling in me all these one liners
A but B, these lessons that are so pivotal and
important for a young person to understand that gets them
to where they want to go in their life. And
so when I said I wanted to be an Olympian
at age eight, my mom and dad were right there
with me. They fortunately didn't think it was silly or
(12:08):
goofy or didn't say, oh, well, girls can't do that,
and honey, you know that's really hard, so maybe shoot.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
A little bit lower.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
No, no, no, they were like, you can be anything
you set your mind too. So beginning in my life,
basically that was number one, was my mom and dad.
And then I had a couple of inspirations in sports,
so basketball was actually my favorite, not soccer.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Soccer was like number three.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
It was like in a football like American football, basketball,
and then soccer was number three.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Which one were you at early on Washington?
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Do you remember Pearl Washington played at Syracuse? Okay, he
was my He was my inspiration. Him and Cheryl Miller
who played at US school. Yeah I remember Cheryl.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
Yeah, So they were my inspirations on the court, but
still inspirations in them.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
The left well count What were you better at early on? Basketball?
Football or soccer?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Right? I know?
Speaker 5 (13:03):
Right?
Speaker 4 (13:03):
So I was.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
I thought I was better at football in fourth and
fifth grade.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
But the trade off I made. I made a deal
with my mom.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
She's like, you can play football as long as you
play in the lightweight division. I was like, yes, and
that was two years and I tried to negotiate one
more year.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
She said no, so.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
I had to replace it, and I replaced it with soccer.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
So it all worked out.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
But I was much better as a goalkeeper than anything else.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
And to me in high school as a goalkeeper.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Watching the goalkeeper, I mean, this one, this one right
here can't stand when it goes to penalty kicks.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
He's so stressed out.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
And I was like, can you imagine being I'm always
thinking the parent of the kid or the guy or
the girl who's sitting there, and all the pressure is
on you get You don't get a lot of the glory,
but you have all of the pressure. Did you immediately
gravitate towards being a goalkeeper. How did that come about?
Speaker 4 (14:02):
You guys? So get it. I love it, I love it.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
You can get it. You totally get it. Like goalkeeping
is like ultra high pressure, ultra low reward yep, and
being a forward is the opposite. Like as a forward,
you could miss five out of seven chances and be
the star making two goals. But I can't miss, you know,
like like I'm about to get yanked out of the games.
(14:25):
But I actually really loved goalkeeping because I could control
the fate of the other team.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
I learned that very early on in my life that
I could control whether the other team could win or not.
And I really like that.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
I closet control freak. As it turned out, sot but so,
you know, so I wasn't.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Really thinking at.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
All about you know, boy, this goal is really big.
Two hundred and sixty six balls can fit across the
face of a goal and only one has to go.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
In, so that thing is huge.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
And I was like, you know what, this is my place,
and I absolutely loved it, and I figured I can
control the other team's fate.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
And it turns out I was right.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
So wait a minute the US women's national team won
in a World Cup in nineteen ninety nine, because you
decided you were a control freak. I mean, I'm just
putting it on the simple as term. So that's where
I just heard youself.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Okay, from one control freak to the other.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Can I ask, though, because we differ on this, because
we've just finished watching the EuroCup. We are a hardcore.
We're in it when anytime there's an international competition, and
Copoor America we watched all of that as well. Do
you like penalty kicks as a soccer Hall of Famer
because my opinion is that, you know what, they just
(15:55):
fight it out. I would hate for it to come
down to who can make a penalty. I would rather
decided on the pitch during the match. Robes is kind
of the opposite of drama. So you, as a goalie,
what do you prefer?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
I have to.
Speaker 5 (16:13):
Honestly say that I prefer my team to win the
game before hand it, yeah, because not because I don't
like penalties. I absolutely embraced them. Why because I'm gonna
have to do it at some point. It just don't
you know, You're going to have to deal with it
as a goalkeeper, and you may as well be great
at it, you know, because it's going to happen at
(16:33):
the most inopportune time, in the biggest moments of your life,
because there's no penalties until you know, the knockout round,
and so that's the for all the marvels. You know,
if you can't handle the PK, then you're going home.
So you better figure it out. And so like you
saw the Euros and Copa. You know, the best goalkeepers
in those in those tournaments were saving you know, one.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
Two, three pk sometimes.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
And I mean they were the hero and then the
very next game comes and they basically forget about him.
So when it's your turn, right, and that's all it
is to it, you gotta you gotta earn your earn
your keep.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
You'll remember, was it Portugal? There was a goalie who
went to penalty kicks. He was stopping everything. He was
the greatest man, he was everything.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
To your point, we can't remainer.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
But next match they got everything passed in the next
match exactly.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
How much pressure and nobody said a word about it.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
It's true, it was done.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
How much pressure like can you describe what it feels like,
what it feels like when everything is on the line,
you're exhausted from playing for as long and as hard
as you all have. What does it feel like to
be the goalkeeper in those moments?
Speaker 5 (17:47):
Well, for me, I was excited because I was like,
we're going to win this thing now that I can
control it. So my my my mission was to save one, absolutely,
save one, maybe too, and then everybody else's job was
just to make one. It was that simple, save one,
make one. And so that's the mindset we had. We
(18:08):
trained it and everything, and it's a little bit nerve wracking.
But once that referee blew that final whistle, I was like, okay,
it's on. Now it's my turn to do to do
my thing. And I don't watch my teammates kick because
that's not my job, that's not my part. So I
don't even put that in my mind. I just listened
to the crowd reaction.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Okay, well, okay, now you're talking. Now we're going full
soccer fan. Now, Okay, In those moments when you're standing there,
what is that goalies strategy? This is one on one,
Like you said, there are two hundred and sixty six
spots that ball can go into. What is your strategy.
Do you actually have you studied each of the other
players and know where they're more prone to go? Is
(18:49):
it just a guess? Do you wait for them to react?
Speaker 5 (18:52):
What do you do?
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Actually, that's a great question, TJ.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
There's two trains of a thought on that some goalkeepers
guests read. I'm a reader, so I read the where
the hips are. I read the distance from the ball.
I read the angle of the approach. You can see
if you train it enough. And then also you go
on instinct. So I actually married the two together. But
(19:17):
I will say this, on that third kicker against China,
I knew I was going to save it before I
even got in the goal.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
You just had a gut feeling.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
I had a gut feeling.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
I would normally walk into the goal and not even
look at them, because I was saying earlier, I only
focused on what was my job. But for some reason
why I was walking into the goal on a third kicker,
something in my mind said look. I heard the word
look in my mind and I looked at her and
I'm like, this is the one. And I knew I
was going to save it before I even got in there.
(19:50):
I get sure enough, I did, and somebody was like, well,
what if you admit what if you were called back
because you were off the line? I said, you know what,
no matter where she was kicking it, I was gonna say.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I get that.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
I know that feeling where you just you know, you
know when you're gonna mess up before you do it,
and you know when you're gonna nail.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
It before you do it. But that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
You remember a moment you've had.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yes on television one hundred.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Percent, you're gonna nail it, Yes, nailed it.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yes, Yes. And then there were times when I knew
I was going to choke and I did.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
I can remember some of those times.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
They're recorded, the moment I hope the making was was
there for you and choking.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
No. But there's just like this, if you're in touch
with I don't know, with the energy of everything, I
feel like you can sense it.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
It's a real thing.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
It's real like athletes always talking about how the world
slows down or the wall looks bigger, or I'm going
in slow motion, Like you can feel it.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
You can feel that. It's almost like the universe like
just kind of comes together for.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
You and you get it.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
I agree you said the universe and you're you're talking
her language now, and she's got me on breed. This
idea of not ignoring the signs that the universe gives you.
Don't just say you could have been out there and going, ah,
some random I didn't really hear a voice, so you
could have done all kinds of things, but you didn't
ignore it. You listen to it and it all worked out.
That's something you taught me.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Rot I mean, I truly believe that. I mean, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Even when I just did my little gymnastics, I knew
before I got on the beam whether or not I
was gonna fall or not, Like I really did. I
was like, this isn't gonna be good or I'm gonna
nail this. I'm not, you know, And it was the
I don't know, it's unexplainable, but you feel it.
Speaker 5 (21:29):
It is hard to explain. I've been years and years
and years. Every time I say, oh, I knew I
was going to say, but people were like.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Come on now, really, I'm like, really, I believe it.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
Really.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Usually for me it's just wow, I hope this goes well.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Fingers crossed.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
That's all I can owe for right, I get that.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Do you commemorate? How do you what do your anniversaries
look like?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Right?
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I know twenty five is a big one, but does
the team get together? Do you all do a video?
Do you text? Or do the anniversaries come and go?
Speaker 5 (22:04):
We are some texting fools, TJ. I mean we have
this text chain that is just like everybody's birthday. Everybody's this,
everybody's that. I mean, we we celebrate each other all
the time. But just recently, just this last weekend, we
were all in New Jersey for the July thirteenth game
of the current team and we had our anniversary celebration
(22:27):
and every single player on that ninety nineteen was there
for the first time in like twenty five years.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
That is so cool and every single one and this
new team is on their way to Paris. If they're
not already there, now.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
What they're there? They're there, mart right now?
Speaker 3 (22:44):
What are you seeing? What do you think is going
to happen? What do you think they're going to be
able to do?
Speaker 5 (22:49):
Well, that's a great question we had. So Emma Hayes,
let's start with her, the coach. Now I've known her
for a long time, she was actually in the country
coaching for many years here in the United States, so
I've known her for years.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
And she invited the team ninety nine ers to have lunch.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
With the current team, and it was a stroke of
genius in my opinion, And we told them what it
would take to win, and we told them what we
saw in them. And for me, I saw that that
team had the talent to shock the world and win
the whole thing.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
And as even though they're young and nine of them.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
Are brand new to the Olympics, it's the first time
and a lot of people are saying they're not playing
that well, and none of that stuff matters. Come game one,
Game two, all you have to do is be present.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
That's something else I told them. Run the game plan.
You got to believe in it.
Speaker 5 (23:44):
The twenty two of you are the only thing that
matters in this room. Nothing else, not social media.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Not reporters, not your parents, not your family, nothing. You
control it. And you decide.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Now, if the twenty two of you can do that
together and get all your arrows going in the same direction,
you could get that gold and bring it home.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
So that's what I feel. I mean, I'm always gonna
bet on them, but I told them that they could
do it.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
You said they needed my help. This is so cool
that you said something that almost seems unfathomable that the
US women's national team could win a tournament and it
would be a shock because we're so used to the
US women's national team being a stellar, being elite, and
in fact you know this obviously. But maybe people don't
(24:34):
drop to the lowest ranking number five, like that's terrible
or something. But it had a twenty year it is okay,
sorry I'm speaking out of turn, but for us, they
it was a twenty year stretch of just being number
one and number two, and there were six year stretches
within that that stayed at number one. So what explain
(24:55):
or maybe even calm down some people who are so
used to the success, which is great. We are trained
to think that this team is going to win every tournament.
What has happened that has gotten the team that's from
I know one or two to number five and now
not necessarily a favorite going to the Olympics. What have
you seen this team do over the last couple of
(25:15):
years has gotten it to not being one or two.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
So it's two things. TJ.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Honestly, it's it's we are a products. This is a
product of our own success. So the rock that was
dropped in the lake and the ripple effects of that
are other countries Spain, France, England, all these other countries.
Brazil pouring more resources into their women's national team and
(25:41):
guess what that means a direct impact on.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Our current team to have to play against them.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
And Spain is fantastic now They've been great for many,
many decades on the men's side, and now the women's
side is playing similarly. Why because they have more resources,
same with England. They went it to the final last
year and the Women's World Cup, and they're up for it.
They're feisty, they're expecting something to happen for themselves. They
believe in it. They see us do it, they're like,
(26:07):
why not us? And so that has been the number
one reason. Number two is, I think, honestly, because the
team is really young and so we haven't won the
Olympics since twenty twelve. But if you look at our history,
when we don't win Olympics, we win the World Cup.
When we don't win the World Cup, we win the Olympics.
And so now people are like, well, this team hasn't
(26:29):
won much of anything most of these players, but don't
count them out. I mean, we know what's expected of us,
and those young players know they're expected to win, whether
whenever you put that jersey on, whether you've been there
for a minute or ten years, the expectation is to win.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Yeah, they understand.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
You mentioned resources, and that's been, of course, a huge
news story over the last several years, Megan Rauppino among
many leading the way where are you on and where
is us women's soccer in terms of resources and getting
what they need to be the best they can be.
Speaker 5 (27:07):
Well, the one thing that was the most important thing
that happened is one of my teammates is now president
of the Soccer Federation.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Happened right, and so.
Speaker 5 (27:20):
She she had she got in there and she handled it,
you know. She she actually said, Cindy said to me
a while ago. I saw her when we were here
at the White House a couple of months back. She said,
I got tired of complaining from the outside in, and
She's like, I decided I was going to do something
on the inside. And she got the vice presidency and
(27:41):
ascended to the presidency and so she's the one that
really spearheaded that understanding that the women deserve equal pay.
And why is that because their ticket receipts there, they're raiders,
the raid, the ratings they're in bringing in their sponsorships.
For the four year period that US Soccer does budgeting,
(28:03):
they were equal to or just above the men. And
so once you got that piece in line, along with
someone who understood it it matters, and then talking to
the men's team, they were able to secure that understanding
and get that equity done. And so that's very recent
and now you have all this other income coming in
with broadcasting, the TV rights and licensing and different you know,
(28:27):
sponsorships that.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Are long term, more you know, more of a partnership
than ever before.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
With the federation, these companies are pouring millions and tens
of millions of dollars in and so that is really
helping now.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
So we're on a really good footing and we have the.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
Same contract those women have the same contracts as the
men do.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
For national teams.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
You mentioned contracts there, yeah, and you mentioned TV rights.
We were talking about USA and the Federation in soccer,
but the National Women in Soccer League, which obviously has
reached so many benefits from what you all did twenty
five years ago. TV Rights just signed a new year
deal for two hundred and forty million dollars a long
term deal. The deal before that was worth four and
(29:19):
a half million.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 1 (29:20):
That that's that's insane, but but it's it's insane, but
it's also insane in a good way in that, Wow,
look at how this is exploding and people are watching soccer.
So you talk about receipts for women, twenty six percent
attendance was up last year at national women's soccer games,
forty one percent viewership increase. People are watching, So some
(29:42):
of it is, yes, porn resources is great, but you
got to have some viewership and it's going up, up, up,
up up. I know right that this is so prideful
for you and you're not going to take obviously some
individual credit for it. But to hear those types of things,
to go from two hundred and forty million for a
TV deal when it was just four and a half
(30:04):
million the time before. What pride wells up in you
when you see a Caitlin Clark, when you see women's
athletics and the WNBA continuing to grow the way it does.
What wells up in you when you think about the
contribution you and your teammates made twenty five years ago.
Speaker 5 (30:26):
He did. It's the greatest honor of my life, honestly,
I mean, other than my marriage to my sweetheart and
being in the Smithsonian, the National African American Museum of
History and Culture. Other than those two things, one are
the greatest honors of my life because that means that
(30:47):
something I did started something that was greater than me,
and we all can contribute and all take some credit
for that. And not only that though, So when you
look at those numbers and you look at like two
years ago, three years ago versus now, I mean, just
the other day they were talking about the Angel City
team going up for two hundred and fifty million to
(31:11):
Bob Eiger and one of his partners at Disney, and
that team cost two million to get into the league
when it first started, like four seasons ago, and so
it's astronomical.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
But women's sports is having a moment.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
I think what's happened is people realize that it's not
just a novelty anymore, and it's not a charity anymore,
and that.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
It's actual business.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
It's a real growth business where you can get in
on this thing and really ride it to the moon.
And it's got great possibilities, great opportunities. And the Caitlin
Clark effect aside from that, has been really phenomenal for
women's sports. WNBA has been around, I think twenty six years,
twenty eight years, something like that, finally getting the recognition
(31:55):
it's deserved, and those women have been fighting for equity
forever and now finally getting all the eyeballs on it.
One of the most amazing stats I saw about WNBA
was last year's All Star voting. The highest player to
get voting was like ninety thousand. The highest player this
(32:16):
year was like eight hundred and fifty thousand. That's almost
a tenfold increase.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
Yeah, it's amazing. I can't get amazing. And it took
a lot of people to get there, and I absolutely
love it.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Uh and you were such a huge part of it,
you know.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
I was reading up on everything, Brianna, and I was
blown away at what you have done and what you've
been through since you your professional career ended with a
traumatic injury in twenty ten. And as much as successes
you had all of the accolades that you have built,
(32:53):
I mean just phenomenal. You found yourself in such a
dark place three years after you were forced out of
the game you love. You were so low that you
ended up pawning your two gold medals I did. Can
you talk about what that moment was like and how
(33:15):
you pulled yourself up and out of it?
Speaker 5 (33:18):
So that moment was like one of my darkest moments
in my life, and I've had a few, and I
think it's because my first gold in ninety six at
the Atlanta Olympics was the culmination of all the times
that my mom and dad spent driving me from A
to B, driving me here, supporting me there, and all
(33:39):
the people that I played with and everyone that's ever
supported me, my coaches, my teammates, and so I felt
that when I was.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
At the verge of pawning that I actually wanted to
turn around and not do it.
Speaker 5 (33:52):
But I was like, I got it. I have to.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
I don't have stability.
Speaker 5 (33:57):
I'm in a dark I'm in a crater, and I'm
thinking and I'm thinking, and then this is the only way.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
I saw financially that I could get some stability now,
just to be clear, I pawned them.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
Now, I did not sell them, so I still had
ownership as long as I'm making that payment.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
But yeah, I did it, and I hated it.
Speaker 5 (34:18):
After I after I took the medal to the shop
in downtown New York, I got back in my car
and I cried. I cried for like an hour. I mean,
the tears just rolling off my face. And I was
in such a bad place. I mean, I recently went
two years ago to the place I lived, the little
studio apartment in Little Falls, New Jersey I lived in,
(34:42):
and this room I'm in right now, my office is
just about the same size, a little bit a little
bit bigger that studio. But I looked I went in
there and I was like, wow, I spent years in
this place, and I no wonder. I was so messed up.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
I mean, I mean it was. It was crazy.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
And it's interesting because people always talk about how things
look different, but it's actually you're different. Things are the same,
like places you live. Maybe some furniture has been moved around.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
But you are not the same anymore.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
And so I really grew from that, and I'm actually
now grateful for it because.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
So you guys know.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
They are there. She is nineteen ninety got back.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
You got them back? You know how long were you
without them?
Speaker 4 (35:36):
It was about eight months, damn. And then my current
wife found out. I told her. She was the only
one I told. I didn't tell anybody that I did this.
Speaker 5 (35:47):
She's the only one I told. And literally, in the
next seventy two hours, I had them back. She's like,
where are they?
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Let's go right now? Yeah, wow, yeah, she was not
messing around.
Speaker 5 (35:57):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
But your plan was always to get them back.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
Absolutely, So I needed I needed some stability because I
was tired of depending on the kindness and the consideration
generosity of my landlord, because I kept only being able
to pay partial payments of my rent because the insurance
company that was paying me disability would decide on a
whim to not pay it, and then I'd have to
(36:21):
go to court and fight them for it, and that
would take months. It was just such a nerve wracking situation.
And I went through all my savings and I was
a little bit proud, I'm not gonna lie. I was
a little bit proud to ask for help. And I was,
you know, I was in this hole, in this place,
and I just felt bad, and I'm sure I could
have asked my teammates for help and they would have
(36:42):
done it, but I just couldn't.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
I couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
You never did you never did.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
I get that though.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
You're at the highest of highs and then you find
yourself at the lowest of lows, and how do you
reconcile those two things? And it came about because of
a concussion, a traumatic brain injury you had and that
insurance company. I think anyone who's had a medical issue
of any kind and it has had to deal with
an insurance company. When I read what you had to do,
you actually hired a PR firm, yep, and that was
(37:11):
the only way you eventually got them to pay for
a surgery that you desperately needed. That when you woke
up it was the first day in three years. You
never you didn't have a headache. I mean, that is
I was egregious.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
It is egregious. I agree. And my wife, who actually
owns that PR.
Speaker 5 (37:28):
Firm, thought I was egregious as well, and she threatened
the insurance company. She's like, look, you either do right
by this woman. She is a two time Olympic gold
medalist and a World Cup champion, and you are messing
around with her money, you're messing around with her health.
You know, her doctors have said, this is what you
need to do. You know, the courts have have, you know,
(37:49):
judged against you every single time you've taken her to court.
You need to do the right thing by her or
I'm going to tell everybody. And we're talking about USA today,
we're talking about a national campaign. She's like, you have,
you know, forty eight hours to handle it, and they did.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
They caved. Ever since she went in there and told
them what she was gonna do, they just caved.
Speaker 5 (38:09):
And it's been uphill, you know, up downhill, like as
she would say, up upward ever since.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Because once you had that surgery, how did your life change?
Speaker 5 (38:21):
It was so I don't know if you guys have
ever experienced chronic pain before, but it's almost.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
Like you like it to like a low hum, you know,
in your ear and in your life.
Speaker 5 (38:33):
It's like it's like seeping the energy out of your body,
this chronic pain, and it weighs on you and it
zaps your intensity and your imagination and for me, it
was everything.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
It just keeps bringing you down.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
It's like this weight, and until you get it off
of you, you don't realize how long you've been adjusting
to your life with that chronic pain. And so once
I woke up, I could feel it was gone, like immediately,
and I just started crying again, and I was like,
oh my gosh, it's gone. And I opened my eyes
and I because it was always in the same spot
behind my left ear, this is like, you know, a
(39:08):
little like no, no, you know, And so it was
finally gone, and I just started crying because I couldn't
believe it. And you don't realize it till after it's
gone how long you've been dealing with it. And then
it was all you know, you know, fight, fighting, and
cawing my way back to me from there.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
But as we sit here today, after all that you
did go through, tell us how you're doing. I asked
that with a contact background, the context being where I
know I was in my twenties, thirties, forties, and after
I went through some very difficult things, and even some
of the most difficult things I've been through my life,
some of it happened in the past couple of years.
(39:49):
What are you talking about to know that I could
sit here and be happier and healthier than I ever am,
to be than I've ever been, and to be at peace.
I always ask people in that kind of context. You
you pawned two gold medals. You pawn gold medals and
you you got it back, and you went through certain
you went through all this hell. Where are you now?
How is Ryan a Scurry doing today?
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Well, let me just say this, TJ.
Speaker 5 (40:15):
When I saw that I was going to interview with you, guys,
I had a feeling that you were in a good
place because.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
I watched you know, I watched TV in the morning,
morning shows.
Speaker 5 (40:27):
And I knew what you know, what happened went down,
And the fact that I was going to talk to
you guys, I was like, yes, because I am all
for the underdog, you know, I mean people who are resilient.
You are stronger because you go through some heavy you
know what, and if you could come out on the
other side of it, it can become part of your foundation.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
And now, you know, you know what, I can.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
Face some crazy stuff and I can get through it
and I can do it. And so for me, I
am fantastic right now. I mean I am more. I
have a better life than I ever thought possible, And
people are like really, I'm like, yeah, really, So.
Speaker 4 (41:10):
I mean, I have an.
Speaker 5 (41:11):
Amazing wife, I have a really great family. My step
kids are awesome. We live in a fantastic home. We're
both very successful. I get to talk about myself for
a living. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Really?
Speaker 4 (41:24):
Like, holy cow?
Speaker 5 (41:26):
I have great partnerships. I have great you know, people
that I get to work with. I get to share
my journey.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
Two years ago, I.
Speaker 5 (41:33):
Wrote a book and I did a documentary and I mean,
da da, and I haven't had validation. I've had validation
in some of the stuff that I didn't realize that
I was going through back then. Have those things be
validated for me now? And so the universe once again
has come back around and given me what I deserved
(41:55):
multiplied And I really truly believe that.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
And so for me today, I'm grateful for all of it.
Speaker 5 (42:03):
I mean, most people would say, oh, well, right, you
were standing on the edge of a waterfall thinking about
jumping in and knowing you can't swim, and you're grateful
for that? Yes, yes I am, because ever since that moment,
I've gone straight up and so there's nothing I can't
do and I use that and I tell everything to
(42:25):
people because I know in the crowd. When I talk
to people, people in your audience need to hear exactly
what I'm saying, and they may not even be aware
of it, or they may not be, you know, willing
to talk to anybody about it.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
But you can be resilient.
Speaker 5 (42:40):
You can get up eight times after you get knocked
down seven times, and actually you'll be stronger in the
fighting of that situation and you'll look back on it
and it'll be a lesson that you take forward and
learn and make you into a better you. And it's
hard to understand that at the time when you're in it.
But as someone who's been in it, you know what
(43:03):
I'm talking about. You can talk about that because you've
been in it.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
So you said, Phoenix, You're in Phoenix next week, drink Yeah,
we need to come to Veens.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Yeah, Brian, we knew this was going to be a
great conversation, but it's even better than we expected.
Speaker 5 (43:22):
You know.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
It Just it's it's not only going through what you
went through, but being willing to be vulnerable and talk
about it. It's not easy and it's painful and reliving
it is also not fun sometimes, but what you're sharing
is so important for people to hear because there are
moments I think that most people go through in life
(43:45):
where they think they can't they can't stand another second,
they can't stand another minute. And yet somehow, when you
see someone else do it and someone else go through it,
you have the courage and strength to do it too.
So thank you for sharing your story. And I know,
I just I I I'm going to buy your book today.
I just I'm so excited my grade to save. And
(44:05):
I think we all can learn from each other, but
certainly thank you for letting us learn from you.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Yeah, we got to go out and buy it. Usually
our guests send it to us for free, but will
support you. That's okay, we will support the cause. Support.
Speaker 4 (44:24):
It's also on.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
Audio book, and I owe you that's my favorite.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
You know what.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
That's what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
Eight hours of my voice.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
You know what. We're training for another marathon and I
love listening to books when I run. So you know
what you just sealed it that is I have a
twelve miler this weekend.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
We have one and I will leave.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
We have we woke up real fast and we have
a twelve miler this weekend, and I will be listening
to your voice.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
You have my like I'm I'm so excited now to
listen to you.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
Thank you so much, both of you. And it's so
fantastic with you guys, and I'm so happy that you're happy.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
And we are happy that you're happy. Fantastic and you
have added to our happiness. Thank you so so much.
Whenever you're in New York again, We're going to exchange
inform age. I'm serious. I'm not kidding. Our producers know
we always ask for the info for our guests, and
that's a good point. Damn I shouldn't.
Speaker 5 (45:20):
I would love it.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
I would love it absolutely.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
He's right, all right, Well, thank you so so much.
Congrats on everything, and appreciate you spending some time with us.
Speaker 4 (45:29):
Thank you both. It's so fantastic to see you. I
appreciate you both. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
That is so awesome.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
You were so excited about talking to her.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
And you know what people always say, be careful when
you meet your heroes or you meet someone you're because
they disappoint you. Oftentimes I would say, uh, Brian exceeded
all all, like, just such a beautiful.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
And we'll let you all know. We wanted this to
happen in studio because we knew that the team was
going to be in New York is right here, so
that was the request. But we ended up being out
of town and we weren't able to be here, and
that we should have canceled our trip to Italy so
we could stay here in studio with good Bride. But
that was great. So, folks, we appreciate you has always
spending some time with us. You can find us on
(46:15):
our official Instagram page at Amy and TJ Podcast. You
were jumping because you I was gonna forget Dan.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
You you always remember though, even if you even if
you just you know, pause a little bit, you always
get it.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Nail it, not me.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Well, folks, stay with it. We will see you again
very very soon.
Hey, folks, Well, where were you on July tenth, nineteen
ninety nine. Oh, you don't remember where you were that
day because it was twenty five years ago. Well what
if I say, where were you when Brandy Chassain made
that goal to give the US women the World Cup?
Now do you remember where you were? Well, our guest
(00:25):
today remembers where she was because she was on the
field when it happened. And welcome to this episode of
Amy and TJ Worlds. You have seen me a lot
once we get going here and our we oftentimes greet
our guests. If they're on zoom, we'll say hello to them,
just to you know, get a couple of pleasantries out
of the way. You have seen me greet a lot
of our guests. Describe the greeting I just gave her.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
It was loud and enthusiastic and genuinely filled with just joy.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah, I am as giddy as it gets because there
are moments, there are so many moments in our lives
where they sometimes they're tragic that you know exactly where
you were. This is one of unbridled joy that collectively
I think we had as a country twenty five years
ago that put us on a path now. Quite frankly,
folks don't even understand why they love women's soccer right now.
(01:14):
That might be some kids that don't even realize why
they were introduced to it and how it came about.
But that team twenty five years ago was everything to
dud just women's soccer, but maybe just women's athletics in
this country.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
It's so true.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I think I've never that was like the first time
I think as a woman I felt proud of a
female team in a way that I mean, I obviously
personally had nothing to do with it, but just the
fact that we could and we did, and there were
those of us proving other people wrong, that not only
were we capable of such incredible acts of athleticism, but
(01:49):
that people cared, people watched, and it mattered, and that
was huge for little girls everywhere. I love what people
I read somewhere someone wrote about this team, this US
women's soccer team, It is the team that taught America
to love soccer.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, And I just thought that was such a perfect
way to put it.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
That is so true. And again, I grew up. We
both grew up in the side. We grew up in
places where it was Friday night lights football football, football, football.
We didn't grow up my parents are. Never a moment
in my life ever crossed my mind that I would
play soccer. But I'm watching this team now, and I
watched every pretty much everything. So it was one of
those do you remember where you were? And this sounds crazy,
(02:30):
I was. I was in Red Lobster.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
You were working You worked at Red Lobster? Were you
working there?
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Ninety nine? It was my senior year of college and
I worked at Red Lobster. The shirt and everything had
fish on it. Yes, But back then and in Arkansas,
there was you remember the days when restaurants used to
have a smoking or non smoking segment. Yes, I don't
have that anymore, but at Red Lobster and Fetville Arkins,
(03:00):
the smoking section is the one that had the TV.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
So I had to go into that section where the
bar was to get drinks from my tables. People were
struggling to get their drinks that night because as you
walked out, the TV was above that walkway, so I
would stop and stare at the screen and watch the
game instead of delivering the butt light to the table.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yeah, how were your tips that night?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I don't think I did well and I didn't care,
but we got all into it and caught up and
watched that moment. But look, we talked about Caitlin Clark
these days. We talked about the WNBA and some of
the superstars there. But these were the first superstars I
remember in my life that were women that I looked
(03:44):
up to, female athletes. That is, that was a first
in my life at the time.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Oh my gosh, yes, Mia Hamm.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
We mentioned Ry Chastain and uh wait, wasn't there someone
else who was very pivotal when things come down to
pks and you're holding your breast and you think, oh
my god, I can't imagine being the kicker or the goalkeeper.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Or the goalkeeper and the goalkeeper. Now, if folks take
folks back to that that match, it went full time.
That means they play a full match, an extra time
and the US women and China did not score. It
was zero zero, so we're going to penalty kicks. Everybody
made the penalty kip except for one young lady from China.
(04:31):
She was stopped by the US goalkeeper. And that I
know that that Brandy Chastain moment is iconic and it
will forever be there. But the only reason that moment
could happen is because of a moment that Brianna Scurry
allowed to happen. She is the goalkeeper of that team.
She's a two time goal medalist, World Cup champion, author
(04:53):
of the book My Greatest Save, and she is a
Soccer Hall of Famer. And what else is she?
Speaker 4 (04:58):
She's here?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I mean if you all could have heard DJ say,
oh my god, hello and yes, we are so honored
Brianna to have you here with us. It is just
your smiling face. If everyone could see the beautiful backdrop
you have, what a cool room, You've got your jerseys
behind you, and just you know, you are not just
(05:23):
an inspiration on the field, you have been one off
the field because you have had quite the journey, as
so many professional athletes do, coming from such highs and
then having to deal with what happens after you had
a traumatic injury, a traumatic brain injury.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
And to be where you are now.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Just congratulations on all of your success and the young
women and boys i'm sure too, who you still inspire
to this day.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
So thank you for all that.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
You continue to do in keeping kids active and giving
them hope and inspiration. Anybody, if they put their heart
and mind to it, can be what they want to be.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
Is there anywhere I could possibly take the two of
you on the road with me to do my intros
for my speaking engagement?
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Will everybody needs a hype man, We will be your
hype couple.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Okay, I'm going to Phoenix tomorrow. Will you meet me there?
Speaker 2 (06:15):
You guys?
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Hell, yeah, we are free as of this moment.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
You guys are great. Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's so crazy that it's twenty
five years A and B. That basically means that it
was like half my life ago. So that's kind of
nutty as well. And I love that when TJ was
at the Red Lobster because my mom loved her some
red Lobster. That's hilarious. And it's great to be here
and Amy, great to see.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
You as well.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
You guys are I'm big fans of yours as well,
So it's really awesome to be on with you guys today.
That moment was incredible, I mean, it really was. But
what's even more interesting about that moment, and TJ mentioned it,
how normally a person when they think about where they
were wins, something happened. It's usually tragic, you know, it's
usually a tragedy of some sort, but this time, for us,
(07:06):
it's one of one of joy great joy to be
an American that day.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
So it was awesome.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
I mean, we not only impacted young girls all over
the country but all over the world, really made them
see what they could be, uh, you know, in time.
And also it was so funny for me to meet
grown men in the airports in the years after, you know,
come up to me and tell me their story about
(07:32):
where they were, and they were all emotional, you know,
they're like and I was at the cabin with my
buddies and we were like just jumping up and down
when you guys won, and it was awesome. I've never
seen female sports before in my life, but that was awesome.
Made me cry, and so stuff like that. It really
is rewarding to here.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, I was one of those guys. Yes we have
we have a group. Well you know, but what what
how long did it take you when, oh, did you
have a good idea in the moment? Just how big
the moment was, because I mean maybe, I mean we
were all watching and we were collected and seeing this
was a cool moment, but it has to a lot
(08:10):
of ways changed the course of history of athletics in
this country in a lot of ways. How long did
it take you to realize how big of a deal
that that was?
Speaker 5 (08:20):
Well, I feel that anybody on my team, except for
Julie that says they understood what the moment was, I
don't think they really did.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And I am one of those that didn't.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
I mean, in terms of big moments, it was literally
one save out of a thousand, right, But it was
the moment that when the save was under the circumstances,
it was under the one hundred and seven degrees on
the pitch, ninety thousand people holding their collective breath about,
you know, after all this overtime, and so it was
(08:52):
like the save herd around the world, and the rippled
effect of that is really immeasurable in my opinion. I mean,
back then, they didn't have women's athletic divisions and stores
like Lululemon and Nike and Athleta like. Those things didn't
exist back then, and now they do. All the other
countries around the world now put resources into their women's
(09:14):
teams at the national level.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
They didn't really before.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
All these other countries are really you know, trying to
fund that, and it matters now. In FIFA for example
as well, the governing body for soccer, we were just
like an afterthought. They didn't even let us use the
name FIFA Women's World Cup until fairly recently, right before
that tournament. And so that's really what it means. Things
(09:39):
just keep reverberating throughout and all the players now. I
just was in New Jersey the other day and I
met Alissa Naiir's mom, who's a goalkeeper on the team now,
and she told me, and this is what's really cool
about it. She told me that she and her daughter
were at the game in the Meadowlands the nineteen ninety nine,
(10:02):
the first game we played, and she was like eight
years old, Oh wow, nine years old, and she said
that they were there and she said thank you to
me for changing the trajectory of her daughter's Lifewhile. Yeah,
that's the kind of stuff that it's been and how
it's affected people, and that's the kind of stuff I
didn't quite understand.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
At the time.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, I mean, you know, it wasn't even that long
ago that kick like a girl throw like a girl,
run like a girl was a negative thing that you
said to somebody. You weren't trying hard enough, you weren't
doing it strong enough, you weren't doing it fast enough,
and you all proved everybody wrong and things started to
shift from that moment on looking back and just seeing
(10:46):
how you came up, you had so many firsts. I
love that you were the baby of nine kids too,
by the way, yess awesome. But you were the only
girl on a boys football team. You were the only
black girl on this soccer team. Who did you look to?
Who could you even potentially have modeled yourself after? How
(11:07):
did you know that you could do it? You could
be the one?
Speaker 5 (11:10):
Well? I got really lucky, to tell you the truth,
My mom and dad were truly my initial inspiration and support.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
My dad always used to say, always be first.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
And at the time he was telling me that, he
was referring.
Speaker 4 (11:25):
To the bus stop. He's like, oh, get out.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
There, don't wait to the bus you know comes And
I'm like, Dad, well, we're all going to get on
the bus.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
And he's like no, He's like, you want to be
the first one in line.
Speaker 5 (11:35):
And I was like, all right, fine, you know, and
I was like, And then he also would always tell
me to keep my eye on the ball.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
And at the time, I was like, what are you
talking about?
Speaker 5 (11:44):
What ball?
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Like, like, what do you mean by that?
Speaker 5 (11:46):
But he was instilling in me all these one liners
A but B, these lessons that are so pivotal and
important for a young person to understand that gets them
to where they want to go in their life. And
so when I said I wanted to be an Olympian
at age eight, my mom and dad were right there
with me. They fortunately didn't think it was silly or
(12:08):
goofy or didn't say, oh, well, girls can't do that,
and honey, you know that's really hard, so maybe shoot.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
A little bit lower.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
No, no, no, they were like, you can be anything
you set your mind too. So beginning in my life,
basically that was number one, was my mom and dad.
And then I had a couple of inspirations in sports,
so basketball was actually my favorite, not soccer.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Soccer was like number three.
Speaker 5 (12:34):
It was like in a football like American football, basketball,
and then soccer was number three.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Which one were you at early on Washington?
Speaker 4 (12:41):
Do you remember Pearl Washington played at Syracuse? Okay, he
was my He was my inspiration. Him and Cheryl Miller
who played at US school. Yeah I remember Cheryl.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
Yeah, So they were my inspirations on the court, but
still inspirations in them.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
The left well count What were you better at early on? Basketball?
Football or soccer?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Right? I know?
Speaker 5 (13:03):
Right?
Speaker 4 (13:03):
So I was.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
I thought I was better at football in fourth and
fifth grade.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
But the trade off I made. I made a deal
with my mom.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
She's like, you can play football as long as you
play in the lightweight division. I was like, yes, and
that was two years and I tried to negotiate one
more year.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
She said no, so.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
I had to replace it, and I replaced it with soccer.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
So it all worked out.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
But I was much better as a goalkeeper than anything else.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
And to me in high school as a goalkeeper.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Watching the goalkeeper, I mean, this one, this one right
here can't stand when it goes to penalty kicks.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
He's so stressed out.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
And I was like, can you imagine being I'm always
thinking the parent of the kid or the guy or
the girl who's sitting there, and all the pressure is
on you get You don't get a lot of the glory,
but you have all of the pressure. Did you immediately
gravitate towards being a goalkeeper. How did that come about?
Speaker 4 (14:02):
You guys? So get it. I love it, I love it.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
You can get it. You totally get it. Like goalkeeping
is like ultra high pressure, ultra low reward yep, and
being a forward is the opposite. Like as a forward,
you could miss five out of seven chances and be
the star making two goals. But I can't miss, you know,
like like I'm about to get yanked out of the games.
(14:25):
But I actually really loved goalkeeping because I could control
the fate of the other team.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
I learned that very early on in my life that
I could control whether the other team could win or not.
And I really like that.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
I closet control freak. As it turned out, sot but so,
you know, so I wasn't.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
Really thinking at.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
All about you know, boy, this goal is really big.
Two hundred and sixty six balls can fit across the
face of a goal and only one has to go.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
In, so that thing is huge.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
And I was like, you know what, this is my place,
and I absolutely loved it, and I figured I can
control the other team's fate.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
And it turns out I was right.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
So wait a minute the US women's national team won
in a World Cup in nineteen ninety nine, because you
decided you were a control freak. I mean, I'm just
putting it on the simple as term. So that's where
I just heard youself.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Okay, from one control freak to the other.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Can I ask, though, because we differ on this, because
we've just finished watching the EuroCup. We are a hardcore.
We're in it when anytime there's an international competition, and
Copoor America we watched all of that as well. Do
you like penalty kicks as a soccer Hall of Famer
because my opinion is that, you know what, they just
(15:55):
fight it out. I would hate for it to come
down to who can make a penalty. I would rather
decided on the pitch during the match. Robes is kind
of the opposite of drama. So you, as a goalie,
what do you prefer?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
I have to.
Speaker 5 (16:13):
Honestly say that I prefer my team to win the
game before hand it, yeah, because not because I don't
like penalties. I absolutely embraced them. Why because I'm gonna
have to do it at some point. It just don't
you know, You're going to have to deal with it
as a goalkeeper, and you may as well be great
at it, you know, because it's going to happen at
(16:33):
the most inopportune time, in the biggest moments of your life,
because there's no penalties until you know, the knockout round,
and so that's the for all the marvels. You know,
if you can't handle the PK, then you're going home.
So you better figure it out. And so like you
saw the Euros and Copa. You know, the best goalkeepers
in those in those tournaments were saving you know, one.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
Two, three pk sometimes.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
And I mean they were the hero and then the
very next game comes and they basically forget about him.
So when it's your turn, right, and that's all it
is to it, you gotta you gotta earn your earn
your keep.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
You'll remember, was it Portugal? There was a goalie who
went to penalty kicks. He was stopping everything. He was
the greatest man, he was everything.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
To your point, we can't remainer.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
But next match they got everything passed in the next
match exactly.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
How much pressure and nobody said a word about it.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
It's true, it was done.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
How much pressure like can you describe what it feels like,
what it feels like when everything is on the line,
you're exhausted from playing for as long and as hard
as you all have. What does it feel like to
be the goalkeeper in those moments?
Speaker 5 (17:47):
Well, for me, I was excited because I was like,
we're going to win this thing now that I can
control it. So my my my mission was to save one, absolutely,
save one, maybe too, and then everybody else's job was
just to make one. It was that simple, save one,
make one. And so that's the mindset we had. We
(18:08):
trained it and everything, and it's a little bit nerve wracking.
But once that referee blew that final whistle, I was like, okay,
it's on. Now it's my turn to do to do
my thing. And I don't watch my teammates kick because
that's not my job, that's not my part. So I
don't even put that in my mind. I just listened
to the crowd reaction.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Okay, well, okay, now you're talking. Now we're going full
soccer fan. Now, Okay, In those moments when you're standing there,
what is that goalies strategy? This is one on one,
Like you said, there are two hundred and sixty six
spots that ball can go into. What is your strategy.
Do you actually have you studied each of the other
players and know where they're more prone to go? Is
(18:49):
it just a guess? Do you wait for them to react?
Speaker 5 (18:52):
What do you do?
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Actually, that's a great question, TJ.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
There's two trains of a thought on that some goalkeepers
guests read. I'm a reader, so I read the where
the hips are. I read the distance from the ball.
I read the angle of the approach. You can see
if you train it enough. And then also you go
on instinct. So I actually married the two together. But
(19:17):
I will say this, on that third kicker against China,
I knew I was going to save it before I
even got in the goal.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
You just had a gut feeling.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
I had a gut feeling.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
I would normally walk into the goal and not even
look at them, because I was saying earlier, I only
focused on what was my job. But for some reason
why I was walking into the goal on a third kicker,
something in my mind said look. I heard the word
look in my mind and I looked at her and
I'm like, this is the one. And I knew I
was going to save it before I even got in there.
(19:50):
I get sure enough, I did, and somebody was like, well,
what if you admit what if you were called back
because you were off the line? I said, you know what,
no matter where she was kicking it, I was gonna say.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I get that.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
I know that feeling where you just you know, you
know when you're gonna mess up before you do it,
and you know when you're gonna nail.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
It before you do it. But that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
You remember a moment you've had.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yes on television one hundred.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Percent, you're gonna nail it, Yes, nailed it.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yes, Yes. And then there were times when I knew
I was going to choke and I did.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
I can remember some of those times.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
They're recorded, the moment I hope the making was was
there for you and choking.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
No. But there's just like this, if you're in touch
with I don't know, with the energy of everything, I
feel like you can sense it.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
It's a real thing.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
It's real like athletes always talking about how the world
slows down or the wall looks bigger, or I'm going
in slow motion, Like you can feel it.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
You can feel that. It's almost like the universe like
just kind of comes together for.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
You and you get it.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
I agree you said the universe and you're you're talking
her language now, and she's got me on breed. This
idea of not ignoring the signs that the universe gives you.
Don't just say you could have been out there and going, ah,
some random I didn't really hear a voice, so you
could have done all kinds of things, but you didn't
ignore it. You listen to it and it all worked out.
That's something you taught me.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Rot I mean, I truly believe that. I mean, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Even when I just did my little gymnastics, I knew
before I got on the beam whether or not I
was gonna fall or not, Like I really did. I
was like, this isn't gonna be good or I'm gonna
nail this. I'm not, you know, And it was the
I don't know, it's unexplainable, but you feel it.
Speaker 5 (21:29):
It is hard to explain. I've been years and years
and years. Every time I say, oh, I knew I
was going to say, but people were like.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Come on now, really, I'm like, really, I believe it.
Speaker 5 (21:38):
Really.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Usually for me it's just wow, I hope this goes well.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Fingers crossed.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
That's all I can owe for right, I get that.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Do you commemorate? How do you what do your anniversaries
look like?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Right?
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I know twenty five is a big one, but does
the team get together? Do you all do a video?
Do you text? Or do the anniversaries come and go?
Speaker 5 (22:04):
We are some texting fools, TJ. I mean we have
this text chain that is just like everybody's birthday. Everybody's this,
everybody's that. I mean, we we celebrate each other all
the time. But just recently, just this last weekend, we
were all in New Jersey for the July thirteenth game
of the current team and we had our anniversary celebration
(22:27):
and every single player on that ninety nineteen was there
for the first time in like twenty five years.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
That is so cool and every single one and this
new team is on their way to Paris. If they're
not already there, now.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
What they're there? They're there, mart right now?
Speaker 3 (22:44):
What are you seeing? What do you think is going
to happen? What do you think they're going to be
able to do?
Speaker 5 (22:49):
Well, that's a great question we had. So Emma Hayes,
let's start with her, the coach. Now I've known her
for a long time, she was actually in the country
coaching for many years here in the United States, so
I've known her for years.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
And she invited the team ninety nine ers to have lunch.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
With the current team, and it was a stroke of
genius in my opinion, And we told them what it
would take to win, and we told them what we
saw in them. And for me, I saw that that
team had the talent to shock the world and win
the whole thing.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
And as even though they're young and nine of them.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
Are brand new to the Olympics, it's the first time
and a lot of people are saying they're not playing
that well, and none of that stuff matters. Come game one,
Game two, all you have to do is be present.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
That's something else I told them. Run the game plan.
You got to believe in it.
Speaker 5 (23:44):
The twenty two of you are the only thing that
matters in this room. Nothing else, not social media.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Not reporters, not your parents, not your family, nothing. You
control it. And you decide.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Now, if the twenty two of you can do that
together and get all your arrows going in the same direction,
you could get that gold and bring it home.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
So that's what I feel. I mean, I'm always gonna
bet on them, but I told them that they could
do it.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
You said they needed my help. This is so cool
that you said something that almost seems unfathomable that the
US women's national team could win a tournament and it
would be a shock because we're so used to the
US women's national team being a stellar, being elite, and
in fact you know this obviously. But maybe people don't
(24:34):
drop to the lowest ranking number five, like that's terrible
or something. But it had a twenty year it is okay,
sorry I'm speaking out of turn, but for us, they
it was a twenty year stretch of just being number
one and number two, and there were six year stretches
within that that stayed at number one. So what explain
(24:55):
or maybe even calm down some people who are so
used to the success, which is great. We are trained
to think that this team is going to win every tournament.
What has happened that has gotten the team that's from
I know one or two to number five and now
not necessarily a favorite going to the Olympics. What have
you seen this team do over the last couple of
(25:15):
years has gotten it to not being one or two.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
So it's two things. TJ.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
Honestly, it's it's we are a products. This is a
product of our own success. So the rock that was
dropped in the lake and the ripple effects of that
are other countries Spain, France, England, all these other countries.
Brazil pouring more resources into their women's national team and
(25:41):
guess what that means a direct impact on.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Our current team to have to play against them.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
And Spain is fantastic now They've been great for many,
many decades on the men's side, and now the women's
side is playing similarly. Why because they have more resources,
same with England. They went it to the final last
year and the Women's World Cup, and they're up for it.
They're feisty, they're expecting something to happen for themselves. They
believe in it. They see us do it, they're like,
(26:07):
why not us? And so that has been the number
one reason. Number two is, I think, honestly, because the
team is really young and so we haven't won the
Olympics since twenty twelve. But if you look at our history,
when we don't win Olympics, we win the World Cup.
When we don't win the World Cup, we win the Olympics.
And so now people are like, well, this team hasn't
(26:29):
won much of anything most of these players, but don't
count them out. I mean, we know what's expected of us,
and those young players know they're expected to win, whether
whenever you put that jersey on, whether you've been there
for a minute or ten years, the expectation is to win.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Yeah, they understand.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
You mentioned resources, and that's been, of course, a huge
news story over the last several years, Megan Rauppino among
many leading the way where are you on and where
is us women's soccer in terms of resources and getting
what they need to be the best they can be.
Speaker 5 (27:07):
Well, the one thing that was the most important thing
that happened is one of my teammates is now president
of the Soccer Federation.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
Happened right, and so.
Speaker 5 (27:20):
She she had she got in there and she handled it,
you know. She she actually said, Cindy said to me
a while ago. I saw her when we were here
at the White House a couple of months back. She said,
I got tired of complaining from the outside in, and
She's like, I decided I was going to do something
on the inside. And she got the vice presidency and
(27:41):
ascended to the presidency and so she's the one that
really spearheaded that understanding that the women deserve equal pay.
And why is that because their ticket receipts there, they're raiders,
the raid, the ratings they're in bringing in their sponsorships.
For the four year period that US Soccer does budgeting,
(28:03):
they were equal to or just above the men. And
so once you got that piece in line, along with
someone who understood it it matters, and then talking to
the men's team, they were able to secure that understanding
and get that equity done. And so that's very recent
and now you have all this other income coming in
with broadcasting, the TV rights and licensing and different you know,
(28:27):
sponsorships that.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Are long term, more you know, more of a partnership
than ever before.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
With the federation, these companies are pouring millions and tens
of millions of dollars in and so that is really
helping now.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
So we're on a really good footing and we have the.
Speaker 5 (28:44):
Same contract those women have the same contracts as the
men do.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
For national teams.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
You mentioned contracts there, yeah, and you mentioned TV rights.
We were talking about USA and the Federation in soccer,
but the National Women in Soccer League, which obviously has
reached so many benefits from what you all did twenty
five years ago. TV Rights just signed a new year
deal for two hundred and forty million dollars a long
term deal. The deal before that was worth four and
(29:19):
a half million.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 1 (29:20):
That that's that's insane, but but it's it's insane, but
it's also insane in a good way in that, Wow,
look at how this is exploding and people are watching soccer.
So you talk about receipts for women, twenty six percent
attendance was up last year at national women's soccer games,
forty one percent viewership increase. People are watching, So some
(29:42):
of it is, yes, porn resources is great, but you
got to have some viewership and it's going up, up, up,
up up. I know right that this is so prideful
for you and you're not going to take obviously some
individual credit for it. But to hear those types of things,
to go from two hundred and forty million for a
TV deal when it was just four and a half
(30:04):
million the time before. What pride wells up in you
when you see a Caitlin Clark, when you see women's
athletics and the WNBA continuing to grow the way it does.
What wells up in you when you think about the
contribution you and your teammates made twenty five years ago.
Speaker 5 (30:26):
He did. It's the greatest honor of my life, honestly,
I mean, other than my marriage to my sweetheart and
being in the Smithsonian, the National African American Museum of
History and Culture. Other than those two things, one are
the greatest honors of my life because that means that
(30:47):
something I did started something that was greater than me,
and we all can contribute and all take some credit
for that. And not only that though, So when you
look at those numbers and you look at like two
years ago, three years ago versus now, I mean, just
the other day they were talking about the Angel City
team going up for two hundred and fifty million to
(31:11):
Bob Eiger and one of his partners at Disney, and
that team cost two million to get into the league
when it first started, like four seasons ago, and so
it's astronomical.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
But women's sports is having a moment.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
I think what's happened is people realize that it's not
just a novelty anymore, and it's not a charity anymore,
and that.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
It's actual business.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
It's a real growth business where you can get in
on this thing and really ride it to the moon.
And it's got great possibilities, great opportunities. And the Caitlin
Clark effect aside from that, has been really phenomenal for
women's sports. WNBA has been around, I think twenty six years,
twenty eight years, something like that, finally getting the recognition
(31:55):
it's deserved, and those women have been fighting for equity
forever and now finally getting all the eyeballs on it.
One of the most amazing stats I saw about WNBA
was last year's All Star voting. The highest player to
get voting was like ninety thousand. The highest player this
(32:16):
year was like eight hundred and fifty thousand. That's almost
a tenfold increase.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
Yeah, it's amazing. I can't get amazing. And it took
a lot of people to get there, and I absolutely
love it.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Uh and you were such a huge part of it,
you know.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
I was reading up on everything, Brianna, and I was
blown away at what you have done and what you've
been through since you your professional career ended with a
traumatic injury in twenty ten. And as much as successes
you had all of the accolades that you have built,
(32:53):
I mean just phenomenal. You found yourself in such a
dark place three years after you were forced out of
the game you love. You were so low that you
ended up pawning your two gold medals I did. Can
you talk about what that moment was like and how
(33:15):
you pulled yourself up and out of it?
Speaker 5 (33:18):
So that moment was like one of my darkest moments
in my life, and I've had a few, and I
think it's because my first gold in ninety six at
the Atlanta Olympics was the culmination of all the times
that my mom and dad spent driving me from A
to B, driving me here, supporting me there, and all
(33:39):
the people that I played with and everyone that's ever
supported me, my coaches, my teammates, and so I felt
that when I was.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
At the verge of pawning that I actually wanted to
turn around and not do it.
Speaker 5 (33:52):
But I was like, I got it. I have to.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
I don't have stability.
Speaker 5 (33:57):
I'm in a dark I'm in a crater, and I'm
thinking and I'm thinking, and then this is the only way.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
I saw financially that I could get some stability now,
just to be clear, I pawned them.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
Now, I did not sell them, so I still had
ownership as long as I'm making that payment.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
But yeah, I did it, and I hated it.
Speaker 5 (34:18):
After I after I took the medal to the shop
in downtown New York, I got back in my car
and I cried. I cried for like an hour. I mean,
the tears just rolling off my face. And I was
in such a bad place. I mean, I recently went
two years ago to the place I lived, the little
studio apartment in Little Falls, New Jersey I lived in,
(34:42):
and this room I'm in right now, my office is
just about the same size, a little bit a little
bit bigger that studio. But I looked I went in
there and I was like, wow, I spent years in
this place, and I no wonder. I was so messed up.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
I mean, I mean it was. It was crazy.
Speaker 5 (35:00):
And it's interesting because people always talk about how things
look different, but it's actually you're different. Things are the same,
like places you live. Maybe some furniture has been moved around.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
But you are not the same anymore.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
And so I really grew from that, and I'm actually
now grateful for it because.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
So you guys know.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
They are there. She is nineteen ninety got back.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
You got them back? You know how long were you
without them?
Speaker 4 (35:36):
It was about eight months, damn. And then my current
wife found out. I told her. She was the only
one I told. I didn't tell anybody that I did this.
Speaker 5 (35:47):
She's the only one I told. And literally, in the
next seventy two hours, I had them back. She's like,
where are they?
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Let's go right now? Yeah, wow, yeah, she was not
messing around.
Speaker 5 (35:57):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
But your plan was always to get them back.
Speaker 5 (36:00):
Absolutely, So I needed I needed some stability because I
was tired of depending on the kindness and the consideration
generosity of my landlord, because I kept only being able
to pay partial payments of my rent because the insurance
company that was paying me disability would decide on a
whim to not pay it, and then I'd have to
(36:21):
go to court and fight them for it, and that
would take months. It was just such a nerve wracking situation.
And I went through all my savings and I was
a little bit proud, I'm not gonna lie. I was
a little bit proud to ask for help. And I was,
you know, I was in this hole, in this place,
and I just felt bad, and I'm sure I could
have asked my teammates for help and they would have
(36:42):
done it, but I just couldn't.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
I couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
You never did you never did.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
I get that though.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
You're at the highest of highs and then you find
yourself at the lowest of lows, and how do you
reconcile those two things? And it came about because of
a concussion, a traumatic brain injury you had and that
insurance company. I think anyone who's had a medical issue
of any kind and it has had to deal with
an insurance company. When I read what you had to do,
you actually hired a PR firm, yep, and that was
(37:11):
the only way you eventually got them to pay for
a surgery that you desperately needed. That when you woke
up it was the first day in three years. You
never you didn't have a headache. I mean, that is
I was egregious.
Speaker 4 (37:24):
It is egregious. I agree. And my wife, who actually
owns that PR.
Speaker 5 (37:28):
Firm, thought I was egregious as well, and she threatened
the insurance company. She's like, look, you either do right
by this woman. She is a two time Olympic gold
medalist and a World Cup champion, and you are messing
around with her money, you're messing around with her health.
You know, her doctors have said, this is what you
need to do. You know, the courts have have, you know,
(37:49):
judged against you every single time you've taken her to court.
You need to do the right thing by her or
I'm going to tell everybody. And we're talking about USA today,
we're talking about a national campaign. She's like, you have,
you know, forty eight hours to handle it, and they did.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
They caved. Ever since she went in there and told
them what she was gonna do, they just caved.
Speaker 5 (38:09):
And it's been uphill, you know, up downhill, like as
she would say, up upward ever since.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Because once you had that surgery, how did your life change?
Speaker 5 (38:21):
It was so I don't know if you guys have
ever experienced chronic pain before, but it's almost.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
Like you like it to like a low hum, you know,
in your ear and in your life.
Speaker 5 (38:33):
It's like it's like seeping the energy out of your body,
this chronic pain, and it weighs on you and it
zaps your intensity and your imagination and for me, it
was everything.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
It just keeps bringing you down.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
It's like this weight, and until you get it off
of you, you don't realize how long you've been adjusting
to your life with that chronic pain. And so once
I woke up, I could feel it was gone, like immediately,
and I just started crying again, and I was like,
oh my gosh, it's gone. And I opened my eyes
and I because it was always in the same spot
behind my left ear, this is like, you know, a
(39:08):
little like no, no, you know, And so it was
finally gone, and I just started crying because I couldn't
believe it. And you don't realize it till after it's
gone how long you've been dealing with it. And then
it was all you know, you know, fight, fighting, and
cawing my way back to me from there.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
But as we sit here today, after all that you
did go through, tell us how you're doing. I asked
that with a contact background, the context being where I
know I was in my twenties, thirties, forties, and after
I went through some very difficult things, and even some
of the most difficult things I've been through my life,
some of it happened in the past couple of years.
(39:49):
What are you talking about to know that I could
sit here and be happier and healthier than I ever am,
to be than I've ever been, and to be at peace.
I always ask people in that kind of context. You
you pawned two gold medals. You pawn gold medals and
you you got it back, and you went through certain
you went through all this hell. Where are you now?
How is Ryan a Scurry doing today?
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Well, let me just say this, TJ.
Speaker 5 (40:15):
When I saw that I was going to interview with you, guys,
I had a feeling that you were in a good
place because.
Speaker 4 (40:23):
I watched you know, I watched TV in the morning,
morning shows.
Speaker 5 (40:27):
And I knew what you know, what happened went down,
And the fact that I was going to talk to
you guys, I was like, yes, because I am all
for the underdog, you know, I mean people who are resilient.
You are stronger because you go through some heavy you
know what, and if you could come out on the
other side of it, it can become part of your foundation.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
And now, you know, you know what, I can.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
Face some crazy stuff and I can get through it
and I can do it. And so for me, I
am fantastic right now. I mean I am more. I
have a better life than I ever thought possible, And
people are like really, I'm like, yeah, really, So.
Speaker 4 (41:10):
I mean, I have an.
Speaker 5 (41:11):
Amazing wife, I have a really great family. My step
kids are awesome. We live in a fantastic home. We're
both very successful. I get to talk about myself for
a living. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Really?
Speaker 4 (41:24):
Like, holy cow?
Speaker 5 (41:26):
I have great partnerships. I have great you know, people
that I get to work with. I get to share
my journey.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
Two years ago, I.
Speaker 5 (41:33):
Wrote a book and I did a documentary and I mean,
da da, and I haven't had validation. I've had validation
in some of the stuff that I didn't realize that
I was going through back then. Have those things be
validated for me now? And so the universe once again
has come back around and given me what I deserved
(41:55):
multiplied And I really truly believe that.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
And so for me today, I'm grateful for all of it.
Speaker 5 (42:03):
I mean, most people would say, oh, well, right, you
were standing on the edge of a waterfall thinking about
jumping in and knowing you can't swim, and you're grateful
for that? Yes, yes I am, because ever since that moment,
I've gone straight up and so there's nothing I can't
do and I use that and I tell everything to
(42:25):
people because I know in the crowd. When I talk
to people, people in your audience need to hear exactly
what I'm saying, and they may not even be aware
of it, or they may not be, you know, willing
to talk to anybody about it.
Speaker 4 (42:38):
But you can be resilient.
Speaker 5 (42:40):
You can get up eight times after you get knocked
down seven times, and actually you'll be stronger in the
fighting of that situation and you'll look back on it
and it'll be a lesson that you take forward and
learn and make you into a better you. And it's
hard to understand that at the time when you're in it.
But as someone who's been in it, you know what
(43:03):
I'm talking about. You can talk about that because you've
been in it.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
So you said, Phoenix, You're in Phoenix next week, drink Yeah,
we need to come to Veens.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Yeah, Brian, we knew this was going to be a
great conversation, but it's even better than we expected.
Speaker 5 (43:22):
You know.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
It Just it's it's not only going through what you
went through, but being willing to be vulnerable and talk
about it. It's not easy and it's painful and reliving
it is also not fun sometimes, but what you're sharing
is so important for people to hear because there are
moments I think that most people go through in life
(43:45):
where they think they can't they can't stand another second,
they can't stand another minute. And yet somehow, when you
see someone else do it and someone else go through it,
you have the courage and strength to do it too.
So thank you for sharing your story. And I know,
I just I I I'm going to buy your book today.
I just I'm so excited my grade to save. And
(44:05):
I think we all can learn from each other, but
certainly thank you for letting us learn from you.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Yeah, we got to go out and buy it. Usually
our guests send it to us for free, but will
support you. That's okay, we will support the cause. Support.
Speaker 4 (44:24):
It's also on.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
Audio book, and I owe you that's my favorite.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
You know what.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
That's what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 4 (44:30):
Eight hours of my voice.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
You know what. We're training for another marathon and I
love listening to books when I run. So you know
what you just sealed it that is I have a
twelve miler this weekend.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
We have one and I will leave.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
We have we woke up real fast and we have
a twelve miler this weekend, and I will be listening
to your voice.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
You have my like I'm I'm so excited now to
listen to you.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
Thank you so much, both of you. And it's so
fantastic with you guys, and I'm so happy that you're happy.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
And we are happy that you're happy. Fantastic and you
have added to our happiness. Thank you so so much.
Whenever you're in New York again, We're going to exchange
inform age. I'm serious. I'm not kidding. Our producers know
we always ask for the info for our guests, and
that's a good point. Damn I shouldn't.
Speaker 5 (45:20):
I would love it.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
I would love it absolutely.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
He's right, all right, Well, thank you so so much.
Congrats on everything, and appreciate you spending some time with us.
Speaker 4 (45:29):
Thank you both. It's so fantastic to see you. I
appreciate you both. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
That is so awesome.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
You were so excited about talking to her.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
And you know what people always say, be careful when
you meet your heroes or you meet someone you're because
they disappoint you. Oftentimes I would say, uh, Brian exceeded
all all, like, just such a beautiful.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
And we'll let you all know. We wanted this to
happen in studio because we knew that the team was
going to be in New York is right here, so
that was the request. But we ended up being out
of town and we weren't able to be here, and
that we should have canceled our trip to Italy so
we could stay here in studio with good Bride. But
that was great. So, folks, we appreciate you has always
spending some time with us. You can find us on
(46:15):
our official Instagram page at Amy and TJ Podcast. You
were jumping because you I was gonna forget Dan.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
You you always remember though, even if you even if
you just you know, pause a little bit, you always
get it.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Nail it, not me.
Speaker 1 (46:28):
Well, folks, stay with it. We will see you again
very very soon.
Hosts And Creators
Amy Robach
T.J. Holmes
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