It’s day one of the highly anticipated murder trial of a 35-year-old labor and delivery nurse, charged with the strangling deaths of her three young children. The defense says Massachusetts mom Lindsay Clancy was suffering from postpartum depression and was actively seeking treatment for it when the unthinkable happened. The prosecution claims the young mother acted with “deliberate, premeditated and extreme atrocity and cruelty” when she killed her 5-year-old, 3-year-old and 8-month-old children after sending her husband out to get take out dinner for the family.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, that folks. It is Monday, July twentieth, and today
a trial gets underway or a woman accused of doing
the unthinkable, a woman accused of killing her three young children,
but she has pleaded not guilty. What they have to
decide now not if the kids died by her hand,
but if she was criminally legally responsible or was it
(00:26):
something that they call postpartum psychosis. And with that, welcome
to this episode of Amy and TJ. Trial expected to
go about two months. Wrote, Every single day of this
one is going to be fascinating.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
It really is, because we are talking about You said unthinkable,
and that really is the way to describe it. This
is a thirty five year old Massachusetts mom who was
a labor and delivery nurse. This was a woman, by
all accounts, including from her own husband and the father
of these three young children, as a wonderful mother, an
incredible nurse, and a loving wife. How does a woman
(01:01):
described like that and beloved by so many people, how
does she wind up strangling her three young children to
death on a January morning back in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, we say young children. One of them's under a
year old. And so when we say, unthinkable here, this
is this is one of those where you I'm willing
to listen to someone that has to make an argument.
This is something that people just don't do. It's just
this is against everything in a mom's nature. I know
there's been some horrible stories over the years robes, and
(01:34):
I know there have been some mothers that maybe just
have their reasons for behaving badly. But when we hear
some stories like this, and there have been high profile ones,
we also hear about something was going on that caused
these women, like this is an ongoing deterioration of this
woman and it seemed like this didn't have to happen.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yes, and it does seem from what we've heard, and
we're going to hear all about this in this trial.
But there is documentation of this young mother, this Lindsay Clancy,
who had previous episodes of postpartum depression and was actively
seeking treatment for it, so.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Voluntarily, she was voluntarily trying to get help.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
She knew she was in trouble. She's a nurse, for
God's sakes, she works in the labor and delivery department.
She understands this more than most, and yet she still
was suffering from it and seemingly could not find a remedy,
and in some cases there is an argument by her
defense that she was over medicated for it.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
But this is just to give you an idea.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Jury selection is actually taking place as we are recording this.
The judge said that he plans to seat eighteen jurors,
so they're going to have six alternates because here the
defense attorney said this. He said, this case ranks for him,
and he's defending her as the most emotionally disturbing and
challenging case he's ever had, and he predicts it will
(02:55):
have a significant impact on jurors. Maybe that's why they
are taking the precaution. I don't know if it's typical,
but I just thought that was interesting. Eighteen jurors they
are going to try and seat over the next day
or two to prepare for this. Yes, what is going
to be a disturbing trial to follow and to hear
(03:15):
and to certainly have to make.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
A ruling on.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
And you assume there'll be majority parents possibly maybe even grandparents,
maybe even have some educators, you might have some caregivers.
So yeah, this is all the details here. We don't
have to sit in the courtroom and just reading about
what happened in this case is yeah, yeah, it'll shake
(03:39):
you and anybody, but especially if you have kids, especially
have young kids, have to be a ground young kids
at all. This it make the hair stand up on
the back of your head.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
It does.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I hated, and I know everybody hated to read about
what the prosecution is claiming happened that day. They claim
that she carefully planned the murders of her five year
old daughter named Cora, her three year old dawson, and
her eight month old Callen. They say she choked each
(04:09):
of her children with resistance bands, you know those bands
that you have in the home for a home gim.
She used those bands, according to prosecutors, to choke her
children to death. And they claim that she in terms
of the premeditative part of this, she actually ordered takeout
and then asked her husband to go pick it up
(04:30):
and then mapped out. Like they claim she used a
mapping app to follow her husband to make sure she'd
have enough time to do all that she planned to do.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
All these things I believe they can document and are true.
I don't think the defense is necessarily pushing back on
her being the one that is responsible for the act.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
It's just a matter of the why exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
And by the way, I also want to point out
she in accordance to her plan, and the defense obviously
this is a part of their defense. She cut her
own risks and neck in an attempt to kill herself,
jumped from a third story window, and that is where
her husband found her, and she has traumatic spinal cord injuries.
Her lawyer says she cannot walk to this day because
(05:15):
of what she did to.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Herself after she did that to her children.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
So the question is was this a premeditative act of
first degree murder? Or is she the victim of an
illness that we don't fully understand?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Can both of those things be true?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yes? Right?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Can't we be so confused? Just because there was some
premeditation or some planning, or some seeming thought in the
plan doesn't mean it wasn't being conducted by a woman
who wasn't in control of her own wasn't in good correct?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I think I assume that the defense is saying, excuse me,
the prosecution doesn't think that's the case. I'd like to
hear them push back on what is I mean that
there are lawsuits this document, they have sued for the
treatment because of the treatment she's gotten. I'm not sure
what the prosecution is going to say to all that
they're essentially going to have to say. All that is BS.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I actually think in this case, I mean, look again,
we're not in the courtroom, and this is going to
be this could be precedent setting in a lot of ways.
But yes, from what we've already heard from the defense
based on these lawsuits, that yes, she was in a
documented mental health crisis, that she was over medicated for
a severe postpartum mental illness. They described she was on
(06:33):
and had been prescribed more than a dozen medications. And
I guarantee you some of these names. I have taken
some of these drugs, and I think everyone's going to
know what we're talking about. Ambient klonopin, vallium, prozac, adavan, Zoloft,
and sarah Quell. All of those drugs she was prescribed
over a period of a few months. And then right
(06:56):
before these killings, she admitted herself to a day program.
Then she admitted herself to a psychiatric hospital for five days.
I mean, she was she was seeking help, She knew
she was in trouble.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I don't know how. I don't know what was going
on there. I don't know if they were prescribed at
different times. Just try this one this week and this
when that week. But if those things are overlapping, even
some one of those will make you comatose. Uh. I
don't know how that drug cocktail was put together. Yeah,
I was.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I was diagnosed with at I was diagnosed, I was
diagnosed with cancer. I was prescribed at a van to
help with anxiety, to help with sleep.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
That is a powerful drug.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I cannot imagine adding valium, ambian prozags zola. They said
that these were all prescribed over a period of several months. Yes,
we don't know in what order and what the instructions were,
but clearly that is disturbing. And she had experienced what
she described as anxiety after the births of her first
two kids, and so when she had this after she
(07:55):
had her third one callum, she recognized the symptoms, but
they did seem, according to her, more severe than they
had in the past. I don't know if anyone could
have anticipated what was going to happen next.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
That's the scary thing.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Again, this is not an insanity defense they're going after,
they're using, they are presenting robes this idea because we
haven't gotten into it yet. She started hearing voices. Should
I say voices are just a singing male voice? She said,
she hears a voice that starts giving her direction and
(08:32):
telling it a warning about her children suffering robes postpartum
psychosis that is not one I'm familiar with.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
No I am not either, and maybe to even help
give some perspective her husband, four days after this, Murders
said he obviously had been witness all of this. He said,
I want to ask all of you that you find
it deep within yourself to forgive Lindsey as I have.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
The real Lindsay.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
The real Lindsay, he says, was generously loving and carrying
towards everyone, me, our kids, family friends, and her patients.
The very fibers of her soul are loving. All I
wish for her now is that she can somehow find
peace for her own husband, who described their wonderful marriage
her as a wonderful mom. If he could say that
(09:21):
four days afterwards, maybe that gives us a little insight
into what he was witnessing, as he too believes his
wife was suffering from a little known and little studied
I guess it's a severe case of postpartum depression called
post partum psychosis. When we come back, we're going to
(09:42):
tell you that postpartum psych psychosis defense has worked before
in a very famous case, and it has some growing
legal backing. Welcome back, everyone to this episode of Amy
(10:03):
and TJ. We are covering day one of the Lindsay
Clancy triple murder trial that is taking place in Massachusetts
right now. They are trying to seat a jury of
eighteen six alternates to determine whether or not Lindsey Clancy
is guilty of first degree murder after she's accused of
(10:23):
strangling her three young children. The defense is that this
was not her this was her illness, this was postpartum psychosis.
And you know who also argued that about twenty years ago,
Andrea Yates, that Texas mom who drowned her five children,
and she was found not guilty. But that was really
(10:44):
the first time, and I can't remember another time where
we've heard of that condition postpartum psychosis.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
No, I'm not familiar at all. If it's obviously it's
worked before, it's a thing a jury recognize and the
medical community has recognized it. It's just may if it's this,
we can't have I mean, I assume this is so
rare that it comes up, even rare that it comes
up and it has a result like we're seeing. But
(11:15):
my goodness, I would love to hear more. And I
hope the right attention is being paid to it. And
maybe this should be something that rises to the level
and continues to get headlines and attention to where people
right pay attention to it and recognize some signs of
it and recognize when people need help. And if they
don't get that help, man, we can have some dire consequences. Yes,
(11:36):
it's worth continuing to talk about.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
You just nailed it right there, because part of the
problem with this. Yes it's rare, and yes it's severe,
but it carries with it if you have postpartum psychosis,
it carries what they call a high risk of suicide
and infanticide, which is hard to even say, but yes,
killing a young child and what you just talked about, babe,
(12:00):
is exactly the issue.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
They say.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Very few women, even among this rare group, ever share
their experiences or share what it was like to undergo
it because of the public taboo. Any woman who experiences
anything other than maternal bliss is criticized, is put into
a negative category. She's not given help, she's given shame.
(12:24):
And so if you aren't supported and you aren't considered
or this isn't considered an illness, but it's considered something shameful.
Yet people aren't going to come forward, they're not going
to talk about it, and help isn't going to be
made available.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
That is a huge part of this problem.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah, shame for I don't know women struggle. You hear
women talk about it and friends talk about it in
private moments, quite honestly, But you couldn't dare go into
mixed company and a dinner party and dare suggest you
don't like your kid, or you had a tough.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Time at home, or you wanted to actually kill your kid.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yes, why that you're struggle or even sometimes you're supposed
to be a happy pregnant lady. You won't talk about
this all the time, like you can't stay Oh you
look so beautiful, Yeah, I just swam. You can't give
an honest ancey, you're supposed to be glowing and all
of this so true.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
There's a lot of pressure and so that adds to
the fact that people haven't studied it, they don't understand it,
and they don't understand it as an illness. Now this
is I think this is fascinating. Illinois is the first
and only state in this country. It happened in twenty eighteen.
They actually passed a law making postpartum illness basically a
(13:33):
mitigating factor when you sentence a woman, a mother who's
been charged with some sort of violence against her children,
if she had postpartum depression, if she had postpartum psychosis.
It is now law for them juries judges to consider
that when coming up with the sentencing, and they also
push rehabilitation or some sort of recognition of the mental
(13:54):
health issue before punishing the woman. So they are the
only state now. Interestingly, this trial is taking place in Massachusetts.
They are the only other state. They have a bill
currently right now, I believe was introduced in the fall.
It's still kind of languishing right now. But if it
were to pass, certainly given the spotlight on this trial
in that state, it would make it the second state
(14:16):
in the country to consider that. Not sure that will
happen in time for sentencing with this young mom but
certainly it's of note that this is something that at
least one state has done. In several countries, by the way,
around the world have passed laws based on this illness
that we just don't.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Talk that much about in this country.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
But again, it's the law requires the judge to consider it.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yes, in the state of Illinois only so yes, And
that would seem if you can prove look if somehow,
and that would be if she were to be found guilty.
But if she were to be found not guilty, obviously
all bets are off.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
But if she were to be.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Found guilty right now in the state of Massachusetts, a
judge does not have to consider a jury does not
have consider the mitigating factors by law. Don't know what
this individual judge might order or what the jury instructions
could be if there was a guilty verdict.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
In this case, the law is just telling the judge
in Illinois, give her a break. That's sit, just give
her a break. She was going through something when this happened.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Yes, break.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So we certainly saw what happened in Texas with Andrea Yates.
All eyes will be on this Massachusetts courtroom to see
what happens to Lindsay Clancy. But this is certainly going
to be a tough and a tall order for those
jurors going through six to eight weeks of this trial
of really truly an unthinkable tragedy that happened to the
Clancy family. We'll keep our eye on it, but wanted
(15:40):
to put it on your radar. Everyone.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
We always appreciate you listening to us. I meany roboch
alongside TJ. Holmes. We'll talk to you soon.
Hey, that folks. It is Monday, July twentieth, and today
a trial gets underway or a woman accused of doing
the unthinkable, a woman accused of killing her three young children,
but she has pleaded not guilty. What they have to
decide now not if the kids died by her hand,
but if she was criminally legally responsible or was it
(00:26):
something that they call postpartum psychosis. And with that, welcome
to this episode of Amy and TJ. Trial expected to
go about two months. Wrote, Every single day of this
one is going to be fascinating.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
It really is, because we are talking about You said unthinkable,
and that really is the way to describe it. This
is a thirty five year old Massachusetts mom who was
a labor and delivery nurse. This was a woman, by
all accounts, including from her own husband and the father
of these three young children, as a wonderful mother, an
incredible nurse, and a loving wife. How does a woman
(01:01):
described like that and beloved by so many people, how
does she wind up strangling her three young children to
death on a January morning back in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, we say young children. One of them's under a
year old. And so when we say, unthinkable here, this
is this is one of those where you I'm willing
to listen to someone that has to make an argument.
This is something that people just don't do. It's just
this is against everything in a mom's nature. I know
there's been some horrible stories over the years robes, and
(01:34):
I know there have been some mothers that maybe just
have their reasons for behaving badly. But when we hear
some stories like this, and there have been high profile ones,
we also hear about something was going on that caused
these women, like this is an ongoing deterioration of this
woman and it seemed like this didn't have to happen.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yes, and it does seem from what we've heard, and
we're going to hear all about this in this trial.
But there is documentation of this young mother, this Lindsay Clancy,
who had previous episodes of postpartum depression and was actively
seeking treatment for it, so.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Voluntarily, she was voluntarily trying to get help.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
She knew she was in trouble. She's a nurse, for
God's sakes, she works in the labor and delivery department.
She understands this more than most, and yet she still
was suffering from it and seemingly could not find a remedy,
and in some cases there is an argument by her
defense that she was over medicated for it.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
But this is just to give you an idea.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Jury selection is actually taking place as we are recording this.
The judge said that he plans to seat eighteen jurors,
so they're going to have six alternates because here the
defense attorney said this. He said, this case ranks for him,
and he's defending her as the most emotionally disturbing and
challenging case he's ever had, and he predicts it will
(02:55):
have a significant impact on jurors. Maybe that's why they
are taking the precaution. I don't know if it's typical,
but I just thought that was interesting. Eighteen jurors they
are going to try and seat over the next day
or two to prepare for this. Yes, what is going
to be a disturbing trial to follow and to hear
(03:15):
and to certainly have to make.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
A ruling on.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
And you assume there'll be majority parents possibly maybe even grandparents,
maybe even have some educators, you might have some caregivers.
So yeah, this is all the details here. We don't
have to sit in the courtroom and just reading about
what happened in this case is yeah, yeah, it'll shake
(03:39):
you and anybody, but especially if you have kids, especially
have young kids, have to be a ground young kids
at all. This it make the hair stand up on
the back of your head.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
It does.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
I hated, and I know everybody hated to read about
what the prosecution is claiming happened that day. They claim
that she carefully planned the murders of her five year
old daughter named Cora, her three year old dawson, and
her eight month old Callen. They say she choked each
(04:09):
of her children with resistance bands, you know those bands
that you have in the home for a home gim.
She used those bands, according to prosecutors, to choke her
children to death. And they claim that she in terms
of the premeditative part of this, she actually ordered takeout
and then asked her husband to go pick it up
(04:30):
and then mapped out. Like they claim she used a
mapping app to follow her husband to make sure she'd
have enough time to do all that she planned to do.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
All these things I believe they can document and are true.
I don't think the defense is necessarily pushing back on
her being the one that is responsible for the act.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
It's just a matter of the why exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
And by the way, I also want to point out
she in accordance to her plan, and the defense obviously
this is a part of their defense. She cut her
own risks and neck in an attempt to kill herself,
jumped from a third story window, and that is where
her husband found her, and she has traumatic spinal cord injuries.
Her lawyer says she cannot walk to this day because
(05:15):
of what she did to.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Herself after she did that to her children.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
So the question is was this a premeditative act of
first degree murder? Or is she the victim of an
illness that we don't fully understand?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Can both of those things be true?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yes? Right?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Can't we be so confused? Just because there was some
premeditation or some planning, or some seeming thought in the
plan doesn't mean it wasn't being conducted by a woman
who wasn't in control of her own wasn't in good correct?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I think I assume that the defense is saying, excuse me,
the prosecution doesn't think that's the case. I'd like to
hear them push back on what is I mean that
there are lawsuits this document, they have sued for the
treatment because of the treatment she's gotten. I'm not sure
what the prosecution is going to say to all that
they're essentially going to have to say. All that is BS.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
I actually think in this case, I mean, look again,
we're not in the courtroom, and this is going to
be this could be precedent setting in a lot of ways.
But yes, from what we've already heard from the defense
based on these lawsuits, that yes, she was in a
documented mental health crisis, that she was over medicated for
a severe postpartum mental illness. They described she was on
(06:33):
and had been prescribed more than a dozen medications. And
I guarantee you some of these names. I have taken
some of these drugs, and I think everyone's going to
know what we're talking about. Ambient klonopin, vallium, prozac, adavan, Zoloft,
and sarah Quell. All of those drugs she was prescribed
over a period of a few months. And then right
(06:56):
before these killings, she admitted herself to a day program.
Then she admitted herself to a psychiatric hospital for five days.
I mean, she was she was seeking help, She knew
she was in trouble.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I don't know how. I don't know what was going
on there. I don't know if they were prescribed at
different times. Just try this one this week and this
when that week. But if those things are overlapping, even
some one of those will make you comatose. Uh. I
don't know how that drug cocktail was put together. Yeah,
I was.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I was diagnosed with at I was diagnosed, I was
diagnosed with cancer. I was prescribed at a van to
help with anxiety, to help with sleep.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
That is a powerful drug.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I cannot imagine adding valium, ambian prozags zola. They said
that these were all prescribed over a period of several months. Yes,
we don't know in what order and what the instructions were,
but clearly that is disturbing. And she had experienced what
she described as anxiety after the births of her first
two kids, and so when she had this after she
(07:55):
had her third one callum, she recognized the symptoms, but
they did seem, according to her, more severe than they
had in the past. I don't know if anyone could
have anticipated what was going to happen next.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
That's the scary thing.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Again, this is not an insanity defense they're going after,
they're using, they are presenting robes this idea because we
haven't gotten into it yet. She started hearing voices. Should
I say voices are just a singing male voice? She said,
she hears a voice that starts giving her direction and
(08:32):
telling it a warning about her children suffering robes postpartum
psychosis that is not one I'm familiar with.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
No I am not either, and maybe to even help
give some perspective her husband, four days after this, Murders
said he obviously had been witness all of this. He said,
I want to ask all of you that you find
it deep within yourself to forgive Lindsey as I have.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
The real Lindsay.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
The real Lindsay, he says, was generously loving and carrying
towards everyone, me, our kids, family friends, and her patients.
The very fibers of her soul are loving. All I
wish for her now is that she can somehow find
peace for her own husband, who described their wonderful marriage
her as a wonderful mom. If he could say that
(09:21):
four days afterwards, maybe that gives us a little insight
into what he was witnessing, as he too believes his
wife was suffering from a little known and little studied
I guess it's a severe case of postpartum depression called
post partum psychosis. When we come back, we're going to
(09:42):
tell you that postpartum psych psychosis defense has worked before
in a very famous case, and it has some growing
legal backing. Welcome back, everyone to this episode of Amy
(10:03):
and TJ. We are covering day one of the Lindsay
Clancy triple murder trial that is taking place in Massachusetts
right now. They are trying to seat a jury of
eighteen six alternates to determine whether or not Lindsey Clancy
is guilty of first degree murder after she's accused of
(10:23):
strangling her three young children. The defense is that this
was not her this was her illness, this was postpartum psychosis.
And you know who also argued that about twenty years ago,
Andrea Yates, that Texas mom who drowned her five children,
and she was found not guilty. But that was really
(10:44):
the first time, and I can't remember another time where
we've heard of that condition postpartum psychosis.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
No, I'm not familiar at all. If it's obviously it's
worked before, it's a thing a jury recognize and the
medical community has recognized it. It's just may if it's this,
we can't have I mean, I assume this is so
rare that it comes up, even rare that it comes
up and it has a result like we're seeing. But
(11:15):
my goodness, I would love to hear more. And I
hope the right attention is being paid to it. And
maybe this should be something that rises to the level
and continues to get headlines and attention to where people
right pay attention to it and recognize some signs of
it and recognize when people need help. And if they
don't get that help, man, we can have some dire consequences. Yes,
(11:36):
it's worth continuing to talk about.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
You just nailed it right there, because part of the
problem with this. Yes it's rare, and yes it's severe,
but it carries with it if you have postpartum psychosis,
it carries what they call a high risk of suicide
and infanticide, which is hard to even say, but yes,
killing a young child and what you just talked about, babe,
(12:00):
is exactly the issue.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
They say.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Very few women, even among this rare group, ever share
their experiences or share what it was like to undergo
it because of the public taboo. Any woman who experiences
anything other than maternal bliss is criticized, is put into
a negative category. She's not given help, she's given shame.
(12:24):
And so if you aren't supported and you aren't considered
or this isn't considered an illness, but it's considered something shameful.
Yet people aren't going to come forward, they're not going
to talk about it, and help isn't going to be
made available.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
That is a huge part of this problem.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Yeah, shame for I don't know women struggle. You hear
women talk about it and friends talk about it in
private moments, quite honestly, But you couldn't dare go into
mixed company and a dinner party and dare suggest you
don't like your kid, or you had a tough.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Time at home, or you wanted to actually kill your kid.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yes, why that you're struggle or even sometimes you're supposed
to be a happy pregnant lady. You won't talk about
this all the time, like you can't stay Oh you
look so beautiful, Yeah, I just swam. You can't give
an honest ancey, you're supposed to be glowing and all
of this so true.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
There's a lot of pressure and so that adds to
the fact that people haven't studied it, they don't understand it,
and they don't understand it as an illness. Now this
is I think this is fascinating. Illinois is the first
and only state in this country. It happened in twenty eighteen.
They actually passed a law making postpartum illness basically a
(13:33):
mitigating factor when you sentence a woman, a mother who's
been charged with some sort of violence against her children,
if she had postpartum depression, if she had postpartum psychosis.
It is now law for them juries judges to consider
that when coming up with the sentencing, and they also
push rehabilitation or some sort of recognition of the mental
(13:54):
health issue before punishing the woman. So they are the
only state now. Interestingly, this trial is taking place in Massachusetts.
They are the only other state. They have a bill
currently right now, I believe was introduced in the fall.
It's still kind of languishing right now. But if it
were to pass, certainly given the spotlight on this trial
in that state, it would make it the second state
(14:16):
in the country to consider that. Not sure that will
happen in time for sentencing with this young mom but
certainly it's of note that this is something that at
least one state has done. In several countries, by the way,
around the world have passed laws based on this illness
that we just don't.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Talk that much about in this country.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
But again, it's the law requires the judge to consider it.
Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yes, in the state of Illinois only so yes, And
that would seem if you can prove look if somehow,
and that would be if she were to be found guilty.
But if she were to be found not guilty, obviously
all bets are off.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
But if she were to be.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Found guilty right now in the state of Massachusetts, a
judge does not have to consider a jury does not
have consider the mitigating factors by law. Don't know what
this individual judge might order or what the jury instructions
could be if there was a guilty verdict.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
In this case, the law is just telling the judge
in Illinois, give her a break. That's sit, just give
her a break. She was going through something when this happened.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Yes, break.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So we certainly saw what happened in Texas with Andrea Yates.
All eyes will be on this Massachusetts courtroom to see
what happens to Lindsay Clancy. But this is certainly going
to be a tough and a tall order for those
jurors going through six to eight weeks of this trial
of really truly an unthinkable tragedy that happened to the
Clancy family. We'll keep our eye on it, but wanted
(15:40):
to put it on your radar. Everyone.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
We always appreciate you listening to us. I meany roboch
alongside TJ. Holmes. We'll talk to you soon.
Hosts And Creators
Amy Robach
T.J. Holmes
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.