January 10, 2026 • 25 mins
Actress Ashely Tisdale-French says she dumped her “toxic mom group” because she felt left out and bullied, and her essay about her experience set off an internet firestorm. While she didn’t name names, several prominent celebrity moms have been featured on social media with her in what sure looks like a “mom group." In particular, Hillary Duff, Mandy Moore and Meghan Trainor. Some of them are responding publicly. Amy and T.J. try to find the lesson in all this, and try to avoid taking side on a topic that has resonated with so many women.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hey there, folks. It is Saturday, January tenth, and we
too are trying to make sense of all of these
headlines we've been seeing this week about a toxic mom group,
and Robes just informed me I might have fallen for
a big old PR stunt, And with that, welcome to
(00:30):
this episode of Amy and tj Okay Robes. First of all,
Ashley Tisdale, toxic mom group, everybody's been seeing the headlines
all week. You tell me, am I wrong for dismissing
this as nothing more than just some clickbait and has
some celebrity names, And this has been blown out of proportion?
Am I wrong to dismiss it as just that?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I don't think it's been blown out of proportion in
that it resonated. So this is something that uss deal
with our entire lives, and us moms actually teach our daughters.
At least I know something that my mom told me,
and I told my girls, you never leave high school.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yes, women support women.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
And yes that's beautiful, and yes that happens.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Every day and we need more of it.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
But truth be told, women cut each other down to
a lot of times, and sometimes friendships do turn toxic.
And when you get a gaggle of girls together, hierarchies form,
clicks form, It's just what happens. Unfortunately, even with good
people with good intentions, it just seems to socially happen.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Okay, if it socially happens, that's fine, it's accepted, it's understood,
and it can be unfortunate and you want to teach
your daughters to do different. Does it have to be
aired out in such a way that now you have
high profile, celebrity, successful women who have now been put
in a position to have to feel accusations essentially that
(02:02):
they arelves that they are the toxic ones. That's the
impression that's left. Is that fair? Before we get into
the details, Is that fair? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I don't think it's cool at all to air anything
publicly period. And I know people are you know, you
could say, oh, I'm trying to make others feel not
so alone, but in actuality, it looks like you are
trying to get attention for yourself and are playing the victim.
Whether you realize that or not, that is what is
ultimately happening. Because there is a good guy and a
bad guy. And I know we'll get into the details
(02:34):
about how she tries to say that's not what she's doing,
but that's what she's doing because she points to all
of their grievances against her, so she can say, oh,
I'm not I'm not saying they're toxic people, but she is.
So that's even unfair. She's not even being honest with
what she's saying and doing.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Okay, So let's go back this hit, didn't it Okay,
Ashley Tisdale, Let's start there. Ashley Tisdale French is what
she goes by now because she is married Ashley Tisdale French,
but known for sure high school music. Most that is
what she is known for, high school musical. She also
Phineas and Verb. That was an animated hit I believe
(03:13):
as well that she voiced. But she is married now
to a guy by the name of David French that
have two kids, a four year old and a sixteen
month old. Now, this all got going because she wrote
in particular, one essay that's getting a lot of attention
that was in the cut, but she wrote one in
December as well on her own website, in which robes
this kind of sums it up. The first one was
titled you're allowed to leave your mom group. And then
(03:36):
the second one that got so much attention was titled
breaking up with My Toxic Mom Group. That was the
one that just came out. It was publicized or published
in the cut. Now people started piecing together, here's the issue.
She does all this talking about toxic mom groups, how
she was treated, how she was left out. We'll get
into some excerpts, but people started piecing together who who
(04:00):
is in her mom group? Because of social media?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, I mean yes, obviously her kids are not that old.
So this is a fairly recent mom group. It's not
like you have multiple mom groups. It's not easy to
find a mom group, to be honest with you, I
never was able to do so. I had wanted to,
but just where I was in my life didn't align
with other people my age who were They weren't doing
the same things allah having kids. So yes, that's a
(04:22):
beautiful thing. It's not like you have multiple mom groups.
So the pictures on social media with Ashley Tisdale are
with a very solid set of moms, and they're all.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Over the internet.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
So it's pretty obvious who the mom group is and
more importantly, who is in that mom group, And there
are some celebrities in that mom.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Group, Megan tre Megan Traynor, Hillary Duff, Mandy Moore. Yes,
people know those names. These are even if they're not
the biggest superstars in the world, they have had such
long standing careers that people know who these folks are.
And like I would say, these have great reputations.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So the other interesting thing about it, Mandy Moore is
as wholesome as they get, like she's a Disney princess
and just sweet as pie.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
This is us.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Just Hillary Duff too.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Hillary Duff has that same reputation, Megan Trainer.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Everyone loves her.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
These are lovable, likable humans, women and certainly moms, and
it's fun to see them all getting along and supporting
each other. So yes, when someone comes out and points
to that mom group and it calls it toxic, that's
obviously going to make headlines. And it's not okay to say, oh,
I didn't name names. I think that is so unfair.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Okay, So that I think robes and like we do
with all these things, where conversations start happening in the
public domain, people going to take sides. So people want
to either completely side with Ashley Tissdale or side with
the others. And right now, when I'm seeing robes and
you've looked at a lot of this, a sense that
(05:54):
Ashley Tisdale is getting more support than criticism. Yes, is
that fair to say?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Or yes, I would say so. And especially it doesn't help,
And it certainly didn't help that folks from the other
side went into defense mode.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
And I understand why they did.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Especially it was the husbands or in particular Hillary Duff's
husband who added fuel to the fire. He wanted to
defend his wife's honor. And there is something admirable about that.
But I think people who feel left out, people who
feel isolated, people who feel like they got uninvited to
group events, that is such a lonely, awful feeling that
(06:31):
they connect immediately to what Ashley Tisdale is saying.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Okay, so he was the first to throw fuel on
the fire, So what set him off? The essay just
a couple of excerpts from the one at least from
the cut robes that got so much attention. She was
saying this was like high school drama. She felt left
out of her group, She felt she had found her
village in a sense of belonging, but that group dynamic
stopped being healthy and positive. She did want to focus
on this. Moms aren't bad people, she said. The moms
(06:57):
aren't bad people, but it was a toxic environment. She
says she could sense a growing distance between me and
the other members of the group, who seem to not
even care that I wasn't around much. When everyone else
attended a birthday party together, I was met with excuses
as to why I hadn't been invited. So she gone
goes on with several of these. She has another essay
(07:17):
we'll get into as well. Now this one in particular,
go back to the husband. Now, this really set things off,
And to be honest with you, I loved, I kind
of loved it was as snarky and it wasn't necessary,
but this sounded like a dude defending his wife.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yes, and Hillary Duff, I have to say, whatever you
think about what he did. She has to feel loved
in this moment because this is what probably every wife
would love for her husband to do. Matthew Koma they
have a seven year old, a four year old, and
an eight month old together.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
He basically created an Instagram.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Post that mocked the cover of the cut where you
see Ashley Tisdale in a black sweater of black pants
with her hand on her cheek and she just looks,
I don't know, she kind of looks like a boss
bitch on a couch, you know. So he basically put
his head on her head. He super imposed his head
(08:07):
and changed the title. Instead of breaking up with my
toxic mom group, he wrote, when you're the most self obsessed.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Tone deaf person on earth.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Other moms tend to shift focus to their actual toddlers.
A mom group tell all through a father's eyes.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Okay, that was this that I love this.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Kind of paste.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Then it's funny. Come on, that was a funny response.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yes, I agree, that sent the internet like wild and look,
I it was clever.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
It was a clever It was a clever clap back.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
But that I would say, is it not the most
official response. Okay, we'll get into Megan trainers. But he
directly addressed Ashley Tisdale has put these women in a
position to where they have to defend themselves. We're only
getting one side of the story. Their side might be
you wouldn't believe how Ashley was behaving. You wouldn't, but
(08:59):
because because We're only getting a one sided accusation, is
the only this Everything might be true, she might, but
you have to keep in mind, what are you doing
to these people and their reputations who now have to
defend themselves against what.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And the only way to defend themselves is to probably
throw her under the bus, which is not something they
might want to do either, Like they would have to
say something to what Matthew was saying, like there's a
reason why you weren't invited. Do some self examination. Look,
and I always think about I love you know how
much I love one of my favorite podcasters?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Why is her name skipping?
Speaker 1 (09:33):
It's only Gabby Burnstein or mail Robin, No.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Robin, thank you, I've let them.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
She actually talks about having this experience in her life
with friends and groups and social media. Right you go
and you see online on social media now that they
all had a lunch without you, or they all went
to a winery without you or whatever, there was some
group activity and you know you didn't get invited. Her
advice is, instead of getting bitter and being angry and
(09:58):
maybe writing an article and calling people out, let them.
Let people and then and then if you want to
invite them, invite them and and then ask questions and
get curious, but don't just throw jabs and assume they're
bad and you've been victimized in some way. And so
just this notion of trying to understand why this happened
(10:19):
and then letting people be who they are without judging them.
I know that's really easy to say and very hard
to do, but I just think about Mel Robbins had
this exact scenario that she went through on her podcast
and talked about the best way to handle it, because
it happens. This stuff happens, people don't like each other,
people realize they aren't good fits. But unfortunately, airing it
(10:41):
all out and blaming someone else, this is what ends
up happening.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
I want to always leave room for Ashley Tisdale having
whatever experience she had, and everything could be and you know,
it's not even a matter is it true or not
is it true to her? We talk about this all
the time. People go through the exact act the same experiences,
but they will tell two different stories about how those
experience impacted them or how they viewed them. This could
(11:07):
be everything out of her mouth could be one hundred
percent troop in her mind at least, I'm sure that's true,
not making anything up, but but if there's any critic,
what do you do? She had to have known what
this was going to do, what attention this was going
to turn to? What is it?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Her?
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Her rep is telling TMZ how they try to kind
of clear this up, if you will, Robes, They said
she was writing the essay it had nothing to do
about any other woman in particular.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Okay, but when you've got pictures out on social media
with your mom group, and you've got celebrities consistently in
those photos, and then you say you're not going to
name names, you know what people are going to do.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
But is it enough?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Obvious?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Her rep says, it's not about those women y'all are
talking about. Is that enough?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
No, it's not enough.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
No, she would have to say, this is not about
Meghan Trainer, this is not about Manny Moore, This is
not this is a completely different friend group that I've
never posted about. But no one's gonna believe that anyway,
because she has all of these pictures of her mom
group going to the spot together like this is obviously
the group she's referring to.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Is this is her justification for putting this out, and
I'm very curious to know what you think of this robes,
she writes, I kept thinking, aren't we supposed to be
teaching our kids to speak up for themselves when their
feelings are hurt, when they get left out on the playground?
Aren't we supposed to teach kids to include each other?
(12:38):
I knew I had to speak up for myself, just
like I would want my daughters to do. Okay, I'm
just gonna stop and ask for your reaction.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I think that's a week.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
I think that's a weak argument for airing your dirty laundry.
I think she could speak up to her for herself
within her friend group.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
She could have directly.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I think the more the braver and more courageous and
more correct way to handle it would to have been
internally write a letter whatever she posted on her website
for clicks.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
If she had.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Written that letter individually to those women and actually talked
about how she felt and how they could find a
way back to each other or why she needed to leave.
But having those conversations directly with the people involved is
what I would want to teach my children to do,
to actually directly and bravely and be radically honest with
the people who you did care about, to resolve something
(13:27):
going forward, not to put it out for the public
to then judge and to get people on your side.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
To me, that is not the lesson I would want
to teach my children.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
It's jumped out to me. And she's forty. I believe
she's not of a much younger generation than us. But
the idea that when you're left out in the playground,
teach kids to include each other, that's true. But there
was something in here that seemed to suggest that the
world at life, that people are supposed to always be fair,
(14:00):
and we seem to be teaching or this idea sometimes
that I shouldn't be hurt. My feelings shouldn't be hurt,
and if they are, then y'all must be toxic or
that must be a problem. The truth is your mom
said you never leave high school. This is just what
life is. And where is the grit coming from? Where
are we getting more than just look at what everybody's
(14:23):
doing to me? And what's no? This is life. And
sometimes people are mean and assholes and you get kicked
out of a group. Sometimes you're the asshole. This is life,
and this is learning. But I didn't like or something
didn't sit right with me about flipping it in such
a way that I'm teaching a lesson. The lesson here
is to what complained is to call them out, to
throw them out of the bus, or to dig in
(14:45):
and deal with the human relationship.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Babe, you just nailed it. That's amazing. I hadn't thought
about it like that. But yes, of course you and
I were taught, maybe because we are in a different
generation than Ashley Dishale, but that is exactly what I've
taught my daughter and you've taught yours. I know that, yeah,
life is unfair. You aren't always going to get a
fair shake, and everybody isn't always going to like you,
(15:08):
and it's not their fault and it's not even your fault,
but sometimes that's the way the world is, and you
have to learn how to accept the reality. You can't
force people to like you, and you can't expect people
to include you, include them, invite them, be the bridge,
and know that everyone isn't always going to walk over
to your side.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
But yes, you're right.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
The lesson she is implying is to say, this isn't
fair this isn't right, and you need to be called out.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
That's not a lesson I would want my daughters to learn.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
But folks, all this back and forth, all the headlines
this week, stay here when we come back, who can
explain why you should never be in a mom group
in the first place? Anyway? Stay here? All right? We
(16:02):
continue here, going to wrap up here on Amy and DJ.
It was it's been making headlines robes. We've been talking
about this toxic mom group story kind of the past
several days, and I think every time you mentioned that,
I'm like, nah, we're doing this.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
We're not going to do this story.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
But this actually Look, you could talk about mom groups,
but you can talk about sorority houses, you can talk
about girls living with each other in college, or you
can talk about friend groups.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
That it's all the same thing.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
It's all the same dynamic, and it's it's messy, and
but we're supposed to be learning lessons about ourselves and
about life and about each other. And the hope is
through some of the discord and through some of the
uncomfortable moments you grow you don't point fingers. But of
course that's the ideal, dealistic way to look at it
and here we are.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Are there dad groups? Do dudes do this?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
You could answer that better than I can, but I
think we all know the answer.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yes, what are dudes doing in a grit? Is there
a dad group? Your dads get together? No, that's not
deesn't happen.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
As well, but golf maybe you know.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I have a question though about a mom group. Do
moms are kids always included in the group or is
this a mom group to where you're getting together to
have the wine and the kids aren't around.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I think the kids are mostly around the ideas that
they can be playing with each other while you all
sip some wine or you know, and it does tend
to get a little gossip, ye, I think. Look, I've
never had a mom group, but you know the book
club I've been in a like, yes, you drink some
wine and you spill some tea and all of that.
So yes, things do get a little cliquie. It's just
(17:31):
it is kind of what girls do.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Oh my goodness. But here is the thing. And we
talk a lot about relationships on this podcast on I
Do Part two on iHeart, and we just we're in
that lane in a lot of ways, and this is
something we talk about, and I'm wondering about mom groups.
Don't you run into a problem or isn't there always
going to be a potential dynamic clash when the only
(17:55):
thing that's actually bringing you together is one thing, the
fact that you got a kid. Like, some of these
groups are getting together not because I have this in
common with this mom, or have this in common. We
would share the same interest or we even like the
same wine, or we have the same sport, or we
work out the same You just have a kid, do you.
We talk about relationships all the time. If you only
(18:15):
have one thing that's bringing you together, would you hang
out with these people if you didn't have a kid.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
And that's a question to ask, yes, And so it's
funny you say that because, look, I think it's awesome
to have support from other women who are in your
certain age group, who are going through the same things
for the first time. I understand how that's communal and helpful,
but it also can get you can start comparing, You
(18:43):
start you start maybe even judging, You may feel jealousy.
It creates all of these like the all things are
not going to be equal, and then kids might not
get along. Kids might start fighting, kids might start not
liking each other.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
The potential for problems is.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Honestly, it's a lot. And I never was in a
mon group. I never, truth be told, I never wanted
to be in a mock group. When I was socializing,
I actually wanted to not talk about my kids.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
That's just me.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I love my children. When I was with them, I
was immersed. But when I was with my friends, I
didn't want to talk about changing diapers. I didn't want
to talk about you know, how many ounces of milk
my baby had that night. Like that just wasn't my jam.
But for those who it is, it does start to
get comparative. You know who's crawling first, who's walking verst.
That sounds silly, but these types of things happen, and
then resentments build and clicks form, and.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
You can just see how this stuff happens.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
This is a and you can speak on it. This
is what women do. Take the kids out of it.
If you get a group of women together, five women
getting together every week for anything, they're going to size
each other out from the moment they walking down Rod.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I hate to say it, but yes, the most contentious
year of my life, I think was when I lived
with five women in my junior year of college.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
It was the hardest year.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
You're comparing shoes, purses, outfits, careers, relationships, kids constantly, right,
constantly is what you all doing. I have noticed so
many times now with you. We go into places and
it might be a woman or somebody we meet for
the first time a couple. To see how the woman
sears and into you and looks you up and down
(20:21):
is I have started noticing these things in a way,
like why God, and she's the nicest thing in the
world to you, not not unpleasant, but just to see
how women size each other.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yes, and we see it, we see it happening, and
it yes, and then right, and then you put yeah,
and like that's.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
The the mama bear. Mama bear comes out.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
So if you say anything that I don't like about
my child, or I'm looking at your child and I'm thinking,
oh my god, it is just to me. Now I'm
understanding completely why I didn't get into a mom group,
because it does start off supportive, starting off supportive and
look and maybe and people have by the way, in
light of this, there have been so many folks who
(21:04):
have put up their mom groups and said ten years
and still going strong, twenty years, still going strong. People
talking about being at each other's kids' weddings and having
these mom groups last for decades, and that's beautiful and
that's awesome. So I'm being you know, I'm maybe being
negative here because there are plenty of examples of beautiful
and not that they didn't have their struggles, I'm sure,
(21:25):
and their issues, but they figured it out and they've
formed these beautiful bonds.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
That is important to say, because this has put a
negative spin on this thing that you said is positive.
Every group is going to have an issue, But I
think why this? And I think you actually upset me
right before we started recording because I said, I wish
you hadn't even told me that, because I've been asking
the question, why does she put this out? Why would
(21:51):
she do this? Why she knew what this was going
to do. I wanted to reserve room for her just
having something on our heart, something on her mind, and
wanted to get this out out and other women are
going through it great, but damn it, why did you
have to show this to me?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
So just a few hours ago, Ashley Tisdale put on
the top of her Instagram feed a slow zoom out
photo of her doing some yoga pose in the desert,
and it says find your strength within coming February first,
and then it tags her wellness brand. So either she
planned this whole thing and now she's launching this campaign,
(22:30):
or she saw she was getting a lot of attention
that she hadn't had in decades and she decided to
launch a campaign. I don't know which came first, but
certainly she is capitalizing on the newfound or I guess the
renewed interest in her brand.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Her name is business is what You're supposed to do.
It just will suggest to some that this was orchestrated
and she knew what she was doing. But hey, this
could all be a c winketing, or she could just
be a good business woman right now and say, hey,
I have an opportunity, let me jump on this now.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
We didn't talk about Meghan Trainer, by the way. I
just wanted to point that out because what did you
think about how she We mentioned it, but I did
want to actually talk about it a little bit. What
did you think about her choice to be at a
computer and have the song playing that she had in
the background with her caption.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
She just wanted to address it without addressing it. Hers
was kind of it was in line with Hillary doves Housmand,
kind of just being silly about it not having to
you know, I don't know Holly Berry came to mind here,
but she's good at addressing controversy just with some silly
post and not necessarily directly, but kind of directly. I
thought it was playful. It was fun.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
It was a playful nod.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
She had still Don't Care playing in the background, and
then she was at the computer and it looked like
she was like looking at the tea and it said
me finding out about the apparent mom group drama. So
she even stead a parent, meaning like, what are you
talking about? We're all good, We're all fine, everything's fine.
So she has a four and a two year old.
So look, I love the idea of mom supporting each other.
(24:03):
I love the idea of moms hanging out together. And yeah,
there will be problems, almost assuredly, there will be some
sort of little drama. But if you can look at
it as an opportunity to learn more about yourself and
your triggers and why you got upset and just not
necessarily be quick to say everyone else is toxic and
(24:23):
poor me.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
That's the thing.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
That's the takeaway I get from this is just a
reminder and because we all do it. I do it,
everyone listening does it. We want to victimize ourselves, poor us.
Look what's happening to us? No, why don't we ask ourselves?
Why am I so upset? And what can I do
about it? And where is my piece? And not blaming
anyone else? That's the way forward.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Thank you for bringing that home. I was resisting this
story for several days and it's there are important nuggets
to take out of it, So thank you for that,
and thank you all as always for listening to our
kind of our morning coffee, morning tea routine. Just came
out into our podcast studio and decided to sit down
and talk about this one. So we appreciate you going
(25:06):
along with us. So for now, I'm TJ. Holmes on
my happ of my dear Amy Robot. We will talk
to you all soon.
Hey there, folks. It is Saturday, January tenth, and we
too are trying to make sense of all of these
headlines we've been seeing this week about a toxic mom group,
and Robes just informed me I might have fallen for
a big old PR stunt, And with that, welcome to
(00:30):
this episode of Amy and tj Okay Robes. First of all,
Ashley Tisdale, toxic mom group, everybody's been seeing the headlines
all week. You tell me, am I wrong for dismissing
this as nothing more than just some clickbait and has
some celebrity names, And this has been blown out of proportion?
Am I wrong to dismiss it as just that?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I don't think it's been blown out of proportion in
that it resonated. So this is something that uss deal
with our entire lives, and us moms actually teach our daughters.
At least I know something that my mom told me,
and I told my girls, you never leave high school.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yes, women support women.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
And yes that's beautiful, and yes that happens.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Every day and we need more of it.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
But truth be told, women cut each other down to
a lot of times, and sometimes friendships do turn toxic.
And when you get a gaggle of girls together, hierarchies form,
clicks form, It's just what happens. Unfortunately, even with good
people with good intentions, it just seems to socially happen.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Okay, if it socially happens, that's fine, it's accepted, it's understood,
and it can be unfortunate and you want to teach
your daughters to do different. Does it have to be
aired out in such a way that now you have
high profile, celebrity, successful women who have now been put
in a position to have to feel accusations essentially that
(02:02):
they arelves that they are the toxic ones. That's the
impression that's left. Is that fair? Before we get into
the details, Is that fair? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I don't think it's cool at all to air anything
publicly period. And I know people are you know, you
could say, oh, I'm trying to make others feel not
so alone, but in actuality, it looks like you are
trying to get attention for yourself and are playing the victim.
Whether you realize that or not, that is what is
ultimately happening. Because there is a good guy and a
bad guy. And I know we'll get into the details
(02:34):
about how she tries to say that's not what she's doing,
but that's what she's doing because she points to all
of their grievances against her, so she can say, oh,
I'm not I'm not saying they're toxic people, but she is.
So that's even unfair. She's not even being honest with
what she's saying and doing.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Okay, So let's go back this hit, didn't it Okay,
Ashley Tisdale, Let's start there. Ashley Tisdale French is what
she goes by now because she is married Ashley Tisdale French,
but known for sure high school music. Most that is
what she is known for, high school musical. She also
Phineas and Verb. That was an animated hit I believe
(03:13):
as well that she voiced. But she is married now
to a guy by the name of David French that
have two kids, a four year old and a sixteen
month old. Now, this all got going because she wrote
in particular, one essay that's getting a lot of attention
that was in the cut, but she wrote one in
December as well on her own website, in which robes
this kind of sums it up. The first one was
titled you're allowed to leave your mom group. And then
(03:36):
the second one that got so much attention was titled
breaking up with My Toxic Mom Group. That was the
one that just came out. It was publicized or published
in the cut. Now people started piecing together, here's the issue.
She does all this talking about toxic mom groups, how
she was treated, how she was left out. We'll get
into some excerpts, but people started piecing together who who
(04:00):
is in her mom group? Because of social media?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, I mean yes, obviously her kids are not that old.
So this is a fairly recent mom group. It's not
like you have multiple mom groups. It's not easy to
find a mom group, to be honest with you, I
never was able to do so. I had wanted to,
but just where I was in my life didn't align
with other people my age who were They weren't doing
the same things allah having kids. So yes, that's a
(04:22):
beautiful thing. It's not like you have multiple mom groups.
So the pictures on social media with Ashley Tisdale are
with a very solid set of moms, and they're all.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Over the internet.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
So it's pretty obvious who the mom group is and
more importantly, who is in that mom group, And there
are some celebrities in that mom.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Group, Megan tre Megan Traynor, Hillary Duff, Mandy Moore. Yes,
people know those names. These are even if they're not
the biggest superstars in the world, they have had such
long standing careers that people know who these folks are.
And like I would say, these have great reputations.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So the other interesting thing about it, Mandy Moore is
as wholesome as they get, like she's a Disney princess
and just sweet as pie.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
This is us.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Just Hillary Duff too.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Hillary Duff has that same reputation, Megan Trainer.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Everyone loves her.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
These are lovable, likable humans, women and certainly moms, and
it's fun to see them all getting along and supporting
each other. So yes, when someone comes out and points
to that mom group and it calls it toxic, that's
obviously going to make headlines. And it's not okay to say, oh,
I didn't name names. I think that is so unfair.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Okay, So that I think robes and like we do
with all these things, where conversations start happening in the
public domain, people going to take sides. So people want
to either completely side with Ashley Tissdale or side with
the others. And right now, when I'm seeing robes and
you've looked at a lot of this, a sense that
(05:54):
Ashley Tisdale is getting more support than criticism. Yes, is
that fair to say?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Or yes, I would say so. And especially it doesn't help,
And it certainly didn't help that folks from the other
side went into defense mode.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
And I understand why they did.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Especially it was the husbands or in particular Hillary Duff's
husband who added fuel to the fire. He wanted to
defend his wife's honor. And there is something admirable about that.
But I think people who feel left out, people who
feel isolated, people who feel like they got uninvited to
group events, that is such a lonely, awful feeling that
(06:31):
they connect immediately to what Ashley Tisdale is saying.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Okay, so he was the first to throw fuel on
the fire, So what set him off? The essay just
a couple of excerpts from the one at least from
the cut robes that got so much attention. She was
saying this was like high school drama. She felt left
out of her group, She felt she had found her
village in a sense of belonging, but that group dynamic
stopped being healthy and positive. She did want to focus
on this. Moms aren't bad people, she said. The moms
(06:57):
aren't bad people, but it was a toxic environment. She
says she could sense a growing distance between me and
the other members of the group, who seem to not
even care that I wasn't around much. When everyone else
attended a birthday party together, I was met with excuses
as to why I hadn't been invited. So she gone
goes on with several of these. She has another essay
(07:17):
we'll get into as well. Now this one in particular,
go back to the husband. Now, this really set things off,
And to be honest with you, I loved, I kind
of loved it was as snarky and it wasn't necessary,
but this sounded like a dude defending his wife.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yes, and Hillary Duff, I have to say, whatever you
think about what he did. She has to feel loved
in this moment because this is what probably every wife
would love for her husband to do. Matthew Koma they
have a seven year old, a four year old, and
an eight month old together.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
He basically created an Instagram.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Post that mocked the cover of the cut where you
see Ashley Tisdale in a black sweater of black pants
with her hand on her cheek and she just looks,
I don't know, she kind of looks like a boss
bitch on a couch, you know. So he basically put
his head on her head. He super imposed his head
(08:07):
and changed the title. Instead of breaking up with my
toxic mom group, he wrote, when you're the most self obsessed.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Tone deaf person on earth.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Other moms tend to shift focus to their actual toddlers.
A mom group tell all through a father's eyes.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Okay, that was this that I love this.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Kind of paste.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Then it's funny. Come on, that was a funny response.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yes, I agree, that sent the internet like wild and look,
I it was clever.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
It was a clever It was a clever clap back.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
But that I would say, is it not the most
official response. Okay, we'll get into Megan trainers. But he
directly addressed Ashley Tisdale has put these women in a
position to where they have to defend themselves. We're only
getting one side of the story. Their side might be
you wouldn't believe how Ashley was behaving. You wouldn't, but
(08:59):
because because We're only getting a one sided accusation, is
the only this Everything might be true, she might, but
you have to keep in mind, what are you doing
to these people and their reputations who now have to
defend themselves against what.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
And the only way to defend themselves is to probably
throw her under the bus, which is not something they
might want to do either, Like they would have to
say something to what Matthew was saying, like there's a
reason why you weren't invited. Do some self examination. Look,
and I always think about I love you know how
much I love one of my favorite podcasters?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Why is her name skipping?
Speaker 1 (09:33):
It's only Gabby Burnstein or mail Robin, No.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Robin, thank you, I've let them.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
She actually talks about having this experience in her life
with friends and groups and social media. Right you go
and you see online on social media now that they
all had a lunch without you, or they all went
to a winery without you or whatever, there was some
group activity and you know you didn't get invited. Her
advice is, instead of getting bitter and being angry and
(09:58):
maybe writing an article and calling people out, let them.
Let people and then and then if you want to
invite them, invite them and and then ask questions and
get curious, but don't just throw jabs and assume they're
bad and you've been victimized in some way. And so
just this notion of trying to understand why this happened
(10:19):
and then letting people be who they are without judging them.
I know that's really easy to say and very hard
to do, but I just think about Mel Robbins had
this exact scenario that she went through on her podcast
and talked about the best way to handle it, because
it happens. This stuff happens, people don't like each other,
people realize they aren't good fits. But unfortunately, airing it
(10:41):
all out and blaming someone else, this is what ends
up happening.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
I want to always leave room for Ashley Tisdale having
whatever experience she had, and everything could be and you know,
it's not even a matter is it true or not
is it true to her? We talk about this all
the time. People go through the exact act the same experiences,
but they will tell two different stories about how those
experience impacted them or how they viewed them. This could
(11:07):
be everything out of her mouth could be one hundred
percent troop in her mind at least, I'm sure that's true,
not making anything up, but but if there's any critic,
what do you do? She had to have known what
this was going to do, what attention this was going
to turn to? What is it?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Her?
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Her rep is telling TMZ how they try to kind
of clear this up, if you will, Robes, They said
she was writing the essay it had nothing to do
about any other woman in particular.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Okay, but when you've got pictures out on social media
with your mom group, and you've got celebrities consistently in
those photos, and then you say you're not going to
name names, you know what people are going to do.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
But is it enough?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Obvious?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Her rep says, it's not about those women y'all are
talking about. Is that enough?
Speaker 3 (11:56):
No, it's not enough.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
No, she would have to say, this is not about
Meghan Trainer, this is not about Manny Moore, This is
not this is a completely different friend group that I've
never posted about. But no one's gonna believe that anyway,
because she has all of these pictures of her mom
group going to the spot together like this is obviously
the group she's referring to.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Is this is her justification for putting this out, and
I'm very curious to know what you think of this robes,
she writes, I kept thinking, aren't we supposed to be
teaching our kids to speak up for themselves when their
feelings are hurt, when they get left out on the playground?
Aren't we supposed to teach kids to include each other?
(12:38):
I knew I had to speak up for myself, just
like I would want my daughters to do. Okay, I'm
just gonna stop and ask for your reaction.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I think that's a week.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
I think that's a weak argument for airing your dirty laundry.
I think she could speak up to her for herself
within her friend group.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
She could have directly.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I think the more the braver and more courageous and
more correct way to handle it would to have been
internally write a letter whatever she posted on her website
for clicks.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
If she had.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Written that letter individually to those women and actually talked
about how she felt and how they could find a
way back to each other or why she needed to leave.
But having those conversations directly with the people involved is
what I would want to teach my children to do,
to actually directly and bravely and be radically honest with
the people who you did care about, to resolve something
(13:27):
going forward, not to put it out for the public
to then judge and to get people on your side.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
To me, that is not the lesson I would want
to teach my children.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
It's jumped out to me. And she's forty. I believe
she's not of a much younger generation than us. But
the idea that when you're left out in the playground,
teach kids to include each other, that's true. But there
was something in here that seemed to suggest that the
world at life, that people are supposed to always be fair,
(14:00):
and we seem to be teaching or this idea sometimes
that I shouldn't be hurt. My feelings shouldn't be hurt,
and if they are, then y'all must be toxic or
that must be a problem. The truth is your mom
said you never leave high school. This is just what
life is. And where is the grit coming from? Where
are we getting more than just look at what everybody's
(14:23):
doing to me? And what's no? This is life. And
sometimes people are mean and assholes and you get kicked
out of a group. Sometimes you're the asshole. This is life,
and this is learning. But I didn't like or something
didn't sit right with me about flipping it in such
a way that I'm teaching a lesson. The lesson here
is to what complained is to call them out, to
throw them out of the bus, or to dig in
(14:45):
and deal with the human relationship.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Babe, you just nailed it. That's amazing. I hadn't thought
about it like that. But yes, of course you and
I were taught, maybe because we are in a different
generation than Ashley Dishale, but that is exactly what I've
taught my daughter and you've taught yours. I know that, yeah,
life is unfair. You aren't always going to get a
fair shake, and everybody isn't always going to like you,
(15:08):
and it's not their fault and it's not even your fault,
but sometimes that's the way the world is, and you
have to learn how to accept the reality. You can't
force people to like you, and you can't expect people
to include you, include them, invite them, be the bridge,
and know that everyone isn't always going to walk over
to your side.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
But yes, you're right.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
The lesson she is implying is to say, this isn't
fair this isn't right, and you need to be called out.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
That's not a lesson I would want my daughters to learn.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
But folks, all this back and forth, all the headlines
this week, stay here when we come back, who can
explain why you should never be in a mom group
in the first place? Anyway? Stay here? All right? We
(16:02):
continue here, going to wrap up here on Amy and DJ.
It was it's been making headlines robes. We've been talking
about this toxic mom group story kind of the past
several days, and I think every time you mentioned that,
I'm like, nah, we're doing this.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
We're not going to do this story.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
But this actually Look, you could talk about mom groups,
but you can talk about sorority houses, you can talk
about girls living with each other in college, or you
can talk about friend groups.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
That it's all the same thing.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
It's all the same dynamic, and it's it's messy, and
but we're supposed to be learning lessons about ourselves and
about life and about each other. And the hope is
through some of the discord and through some of the
uncomfortable moments you grow you don't point fingers. But of
course that's the ideal, dealistic way to look at it
and here we are.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Are there dad groups? Do dudes do this?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
You could answer that better than I can, but I
think we all know the answer.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yes, what are dudes doing in a grit? Is there
a dad group? Your dads get together? No, that's not
deesn't happen.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
As well, but golf maybe you know.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I have a question though about a mom group. Do
moms are kids always included in the group or is
this a mom group to where you're getting together to
have the wine and the kids aren't around.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
I think the kids are mostly around the ideas that
they can be playing with each other while you all
sip some wine or you know, and it does tend
to get a little gossip, ye, I think. Look, I've
never had a mom group, but you know the book
club I've been in a like, yes, you drink some
wine and you spill some tea and all of that.
So yes, things do get a little cliquie. It's just
(17:31):
it is kind of what girls do.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Oh my goodness. But here is the thing. And we
talk a lot about relationships on this podcast on I
Do Part two on iHeart, and we just we're in
that lane in a lot of ways, and this is
something we talk about, and I'm wondering about mom groups.
Don't you run into a problem or isn't there always
going to be a potential dynamic clash when the only
(17:55):
thing that's actually bringing you together is one thing, the
fact that you got a kid. Like, some of these
groups are getting together not because I have this in
common with this mom, or have this in common. We
would share the same interest or we even like the
same wine, or we have the same sport, or we
work out the same You just have a kid, do you.
We talk about relationships all the time. If you only
(18:15):
have one thing that's bringing you together, would you hang
out with these people if you didn't have a kid.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
And that's a question to ask, yes, And so it's
funny you say that because, look, I think it's awesome
to have support from other women who are in your
certain age group, who are going through the same things
for the first time. I understand how that's communal and helpful,
but it also can get you can start comparing, You
(18:43):
start you start maybe even judging, You may feel jealousy.
It creates all of these like the all things are
not going to be equal, and then kids might not
get along. Kids might start fighting, kids might start not
liking each other.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
The potential for problems is.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Honestly, it's a lot. And I never was in a
mon group. I never, truth be told, I never wanted
to be in a mock group. When I was socializing,
I actually wanted to not talk about my kids.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
That's just me.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I love my children. When I was with them, I
was immersed. But when I was with my friends, I
didn't want to talk about changing diapers. I didn't want
to talk about you know, how many ounces of milk
my baby had that night. Like that just wasn't my jam.
But for those who it is, it does start to
get comparative. You know who's crawling first, who's walking verst.
That sounds silly, but these types of things happen, and
then resentments build and clicks form, and.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
You can just see how this stuff happens.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
This is a and you can speak on it. This
is what women do. Take the kids out of it.
If you get a group of women together, five women
getting together every week for anything, they're going to size
each other out from the moment they walking down Rod.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I hate to say it, but yes, the most contentious
year of my life, I think was when I lived
with five women in my junior year of college.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
It was the hardest year.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
You're comparing shoes, purses, outfits, careers, relationships, kids constantly, right,
constantly is what you all doing. I have noticed so
many times now with you. We go into places and
it might be a woman or somebody we meet for
the first time a couple. To see how the woman
sears and into you and looks you up and down
(20:21):
is I have started noticing these things in a way,
like why God, and she's the nicest thing in the
world to you, not not unpleasant, but just to see
how women size each other.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yes, and we see it, we see it happening, and
it yes, and then right, and then you put yeah,
and like that's.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
The the mama bear. Mama bear comes out.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
So if you say anything that I don't like about
my child, or I'm looking at your child and I'm thinking,
oh my god, it is just to me. Now I'm
understanding completely why I didn't get into a mom group,
because it does start off supportive, starting off supportive and
look and maybe and people have by the way, in
light of this, there have been so many folks who
(21:04):
have put up their mom groups and said ten years
and still going strong, twenty years, still going strong. People
talking about being at each other's kids' weddings and having
these mom groups last for decades, and that's beautiful and
that's awesome. So I'm being you know, I'm maybe being
negative here because there are plenty of examples of beautiful
and not that they didn't have their struggles, I'm sure,
(21:25):
and their issues, but they figured it out and they've
formed these beautiful bonds.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
That is important to say, because this has put a
negative spin on this thing that you said is positive.
Every group is going to have an issue, But I
think why this? And I think you actually upset me
right before we started recording because I said, I wish
you hadn't even told me that, because I've been asking
the question, why does she put this out? Why would
(21:51):
she do this? Why she knew what this was going
to do. I wanted to reserve room for her just
having something on our heart, something on her mind, and
wanted to get this out out and other women are
going through it great, but damn it, why did you
have to show this to me?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
So just a few hours ago, Ashley Tisdale put on
the top of her Instagram feed a slow zoom out
photo of her doing some yoga pose in the desert,
and it says find your strength within coming February first,
and then it tags her wellness brand. So either she
planned this whole thing and now she's launching this campaign,
(22:30):
or she saw she was getting a lot of attention
that she hadn't had in decades and she decided to
launch a campaign. I don't know which came first, but
certainly she is capitalizing on the newfound or I guess the
renewed interest in her brand.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Her name is business is what You're supposed to do.
It just will suggest to some that this was orchestrated
and she knew what she was doing. But hey, this
could all be a c winketing, or she could just
be a good business woman right now and say, hey,
I have an opportunity, let me jump on this now.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
We didn't talk about Meghan Trainer, by the way. I
just wanted to point that out because what did you
think about how she We mentioned it, but I did
want to actually talk about it a little bit. What
did you think about her choice to be at a
computer and have the song playing that she had in
the background with her caption.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
She just wanted to address it without addressing it. Hers
was kind of it was in line with Hillary doves Housmand,
kind of just being silly about it not having to
you know, I don't know Holly Berry came to mind here,
but she's good at addressing controversy just with some silly
post and not necessarily directly, but kind of directly. I
thought it was playful. It was fun.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
It was a playful nod.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
She had still Don't Care playing in the background, and
then she was at the computer and it looked like
she was like looking at the tea and it said
me finding out about the apparent mom group drama. So
she even stead a parent, meaning like, what are you
talking about? We're all good, We're all fine, everything's fine.
So she has a four and a two year old.
So look, I love the idea of mom supporting each other.
(24:03):
I love the idea of moms hanging out together. And yeah,
there will be problems, almost assuredly, there will be some
sort of little drama. But if you can look at
it as an opportunity to learn more about yourself and
your triggers and why you got upset and just not
necessarily be quick to say everyone else is toxic and
(24:23):
poor me.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
That's the thing.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
That's the takeaway I get from this is just a
reminder and because we all do it. I do it,
everyone listening does it. We want to victimize ourselves, poor us.
Look what's happening to us? No, why don't we ask ourselves?
Why am I so upset? And what can I do
about it? And where is my piece? And not blaming
anyone else? That's the way forward.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Thank you for bringing that home. I was resisting this
story for several days and it's there are important nuggets
to take out of it, So thank you for that,
and thank you all as always for listening to our
kind of our morning coffee, morning tea routine. Just came
out into our podcast studio and decided to sit down
and talk about this one. So we appreciate you going
(25:06):
along with us. So for now, I'm TJ. Holmes on
my happ of my dear Amy Robot. We will talk
to you all soon.
Hosts And Creators
Amy Robach
T.J. Holmes
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