February 20, 2026 • 16 mins
America wasn’t always this divided or isolated from one another. In this Shop Talk, Coach Bill unpacks Robert Putnam’s fascinating research on the historical forces that pulled us apart — and the simple, local actions normal folks can take right now to bring “we” back to their communities.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey, everybody, it's fill courting with that army and normal folks.
And this is shop talk number ninety two. Welcome in
to the shop. They're going crazy high Alex.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
How you doing. Welcome in the shop? Yeah two? What
I mean?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yeah, welcoming in the shop.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Anything with today? What beautiful weather in Memphis after this ice?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
It's actually pretty? But can you believe you shop mountms
of ice out here?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Do you really? I didn't see it?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
You said that last time. Would you just open your eye?
Had you know you you almost hit one with your car? Probably?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Yeah, Actually, you gotta be safe driving in your facility.
There's often a lot of moving things around.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
You gotta be got.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
It's a manufacturing yard. It's not for you know, public whatever.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I actually love how you have the massive science, Like
what does it stay safe or pay attention?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
What's the message? Well?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
They are thank safety and stuff all over the place.
Yeah ninety two, Bill ninety two.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's going to be a defensive lineman type.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
And I can't think of one.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Reggie White at Tennessee.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I swear do you guys about say Reggie White? I
swear to you. I was going to say, Reggie should
have said it. Why are you hold him back? I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Michael straighthand ah love him. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
And then atomic numbers ninety two represents uranium?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
What that has nothing to do? That is so ridiculous.
There's no way I was going to get that. We
don't have to just talk about football. Yes, I mean,
are we? Did you say uranus? What'd you say? I
don't even know what she said.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
There's actually another podcast I listened to. Yeah, they try
to drop in uranus any chance they got?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, well why not raatest planet names ever? No? Oh man, Yeah,
this is the family show. I disagree with somebody. I
just say, Urana two.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
And a half years of doing this show in our
first year rain Sorry if we have offended anyone.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I mean, it's just a planet.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
How can you be offended by interstellar and nomenclature? Okay,
Shop Talk number ninety two, The Upswing, How America lost
WE and how it came back before? How America lost
WE and how it came back before?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
It all makes sense in a minute.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Well, I already have some ideas, but we're just gonna
go through this right after these brief messages from our
general sponsors. Hey, everybody, Welcome back to the Shop Chop
(02:56):
Talk number ninety two, The Upswinging semi colin How America
Lost we in quotation marks and how it came back
before there, that's what we're talking about. So it's a
book that's helped us make sense of something a lot
of us feel but don't always know how to name.
(03:18):
The book is The Upswing, How America Came Together a
century ago and How we can do it again, by
Robert Putnam, who we visited recently in another Shop Talk.
And Robert Putnam is clearly a cool dude. If the
name rings a bell, he's the same guy who wrote
(03:39):
Pulling Alone. So we did that all right. The Upswing
asks a deeper question, how did we get so fragmented?
And how did we ever come back together in the
first place? You know, before I go on, I think
we can all think about stuff like nine to eleven,
(04:02):
the Columbine shooting for Harbor. I could go on, but
you think about all those things that we find a
vision everything, But then some shock wave like that seems
to bring us together, and then sadly, little by little
that togetherness becomes more and more afraid. That's just my
(04:23):
own thoughts So before we go forward, who Robert Putnam is.
Putnam is a sociologist at Harvard who studies social capital.
He's a really bright guy. That's just a technical term
for something very human, trust, belonging, shared responsibility, and the
habits that hold a society together. He doesn't look at
(04:44):
trends over five years. He looks at one hundred and
fifty years of American life and economics, politics of engagement, culture,
and what he found as a clear pattern. And this
is some interesting stuff. So pay attention, big idea, the
I I arc I to we to eye that arc.
(05:09):
Putnam shows that America has gone through what he calls
an I we Ie curve, the long period of rugged individualism,
then a powerful shift toward community and shared responsibility, and
then over the last fifty years to slide back toward
everybody's for themselves. The middle period, the upswing. Now there's
(05:29):
where the key is what life was really like in
the Gilded Age. The first eye to understand the upswing,
you have to understand what came before it. The Gilded Age,
roughly eighteen seventy through nineteen hundred. On the surface, America
was booming, railroads, steel, oil, massive fortunes. Think the Vanderbilts,
(05:53):
think Rockefeller, think Carnegie. That was that period of timeunderneath
all that and all that storied history, extreme inequality, child labor,
really unsafe factories and operating units, and zero safety net
(06:14):
for when the tired and huddled masses ended their twelve
hour shifts. Wealth was concentrated at the top at levels
comparable to today. Trust was low, politics were corrupt, Civic
life was thin and fragmented. Putnam's point isn't that people
were worse back then. It's that the structure of society
(06:35):
rewarded I and punished Wei. The turn why the upswing happened.
Starting around nineteen hundred, something changed, not all at once
and not from Washington, d c. First, people began responding
to inequality, instability, and social breakdown by building institutions that
(06:55):
trained cooperation. And here's the remarkable part. Huge number of
those institutions were founded in a very tight window, basically
between nineteen oh five to nineteen seventeen. Consider that one
hundred and fifteen to one hundred, ten years ago the
institutional explosion. Listen to this list. The Rotary Club founded
(07:18):
in nineteen oh five Boy Scouts of America nineteen ten,
Girl Scouts nineteen twelve, Guanas Club nineteen fifteen, Lions Club
nineteen seventeen. In the same era, libraries exploded in number.
Settlement houses like Whole House multiplied. Faith based service organizations
grew dramatically. These were not just charities. There were civic
(07:41):
training grounds. They taught people how to lead, how to cooperate,
how to serve across class lines, and how to see
themselves as responsible for the whole. Just consider that now
what the upswing looked like and data. As these institutions
took root, the numbers shifted. Economically, inequality fell steadily from
(08:06):
the nineteen tens through the nineteen sixties. Wages rose alongside productivity.
A broad, massive, powerful middle class emerged. Civically, club membership
sward volunteering became normalized, church attendants peaked. Politically, bipartisanship became common.
(08:29):
Compromise was not a dirty word trust in institutions. As
a result of compromise and bar partimanship, trust in institutions
was high. The period peaked between nineteen forty five and
nineteen seventy the downswing back to eye then starting in
(08:50):
the seventies, early seventies, it turned again, rising, inequality, declining trust,
fewer people joining anything, loneliness becoming a public health crisis,
and politics turning back to zero sum. His famous line
still holds. Americans still bowl, they just don't bowl together.
(09:14):
We didn't stop caring, we stopped being connected. First of all,
all of that is incredible research, and the data alone
should have bells going off in your brain just for
you personally. But the way you look at society, civics,
culture and voting and politics, and your children's future and
(09:42):
your grandchildren's future, if we stop this thing right there,
that should be tingling your spine a little bit. And
if it isn't, you're not paying attention. But why does
this matter for an arm normal folks? The upswing didn't
(10:02):
start with federal policy. It started locally, with people organizing,
with service clubs with shared rituals with visible contribution. Remember
Boy Scouts but Rotary Club founded nineteen oh five, Boy
Scouts nineteen ten, Girl Scouts nineteen twelve, Wanners Club nineteen fifteen,
(10:24):
Lions Club nineteen seventeen. Those are all local things, Those
are all people organizing. Those are service clubs with shared
rituals with visible contribution. The upswing was not started by
the government. It was started by normal folks, and it
(10:45):
lasted into the seventies, sixty years of improved contribution to society,
improved trust in civics and institutions, started by normal folks.
Where are we today, Putnam is clear today looks a
(11:08):
lot like the Gilded Age again, high inequality, low trust,
fragmented communities, weak civic institutions. But there's one key difference.
And we know how this story goes, and we know
how it turns. The upswing happened once because enough people
decided we are responsible for each other, and it can
(11:31):
happen again, not through nostalgia, not through politics alone, but
through rebuilding the habits of we where we live. That's
what our local service clubs are, guys, That's what service does.
That's what happens when normal folks stop waiting. The upswing
will not start in Washington. It will start in your hometown.
(11:54):
It will start in your neighborhood, It will start in
your community. It will start on your guys. The data
is in front of us. The history teaches us how
it works and what happens when it doesn't. And the
(12:16):
irony is when we think of all these complicated, complex
issues and everything that divides us. The answer is so
very simple. It's normal folks joining community to serve. And
all of that fixes the inequality, fixes the low trust,
fixes the fragmented communities, fixes the lack of trust in
(12:40):
weak civic institutions, all of it. If you want proof,
just look at what we Americans did one hundred years ago,
look at what the Gilded Age was leading up to
what we did one hundred years ago, and view that
through a lens of where we are today. The pendulum
has swung and it's up to us to swing it back.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Alex.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
So hopefully we are on the verge of an upswing
as a country. But it feels that way is kind
of what a lot of people are saying right now.
But obviously that only happens if we all act.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And where best to act within the construct of an
army and normal folks.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
You're self serving, Bill, Jeez, it.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Is self serving, but it's there. I mean, somebody had
to come up with the rotary club, somebody had to
come up with the lions clubs, somebody had to come
up with a quantus club, and okay, so maybe those
are outdated and different, or maybe they just need a
resurgence or whatever. But in today's nomenclature and in today's
(13:41):
societal construct, an army and normal folks service club feels
just like those clubs felt like hundred ten years ago.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
And it put a couple recent facts we've discussed together.
We mentioned last episode how Rotary has lost one hundred
thousand members. You know, back in the day, it really
was like a social requirement, Like if you were a
business owner in your town, it was expected of you
to be a member of Rotary oh or Kwanas yeah,
or you know, it was expected of you to be
(14:11):
a member of your church. Now that those social expectations
are kind of gone, I think there is an opportunity
for us to create a new social expectation here and
the best way to do it, Like we talked about
in that Davidson Toola Shop talk, how behavior spreads one
is getting to the twenty percent.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So the real key is number one.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
We need to get the leaders to help start these
clubs around the country, but also everybody else listening who
may not be ready to lead, join in, Help be
a part of the leadership team, be a member, help
get to the twenty percent so that you can tip
over and eventually it becomes the same kind of social expectation,
the same way that rotary and churches used to be.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, and that's good because a lot of people would think, well,
you got to get to fifty percent to do anything. Actually,
at twenty percent is when it comes big enough that
it comes to movement. Ye. So that's it. Shop Talk
number ninety two, How America lost we and how we
came back before, and how we can do it again.
So instead of being at the eye project, it needs
(15:14):
to be the I we I Wei project. So let's
do that. If you enjoyed this episode, please share with
friends and on social subscribe to the podcast, rate and
review it. Join the army at normal folks dot us.
For goodness sakes, do something Bill. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
If you want to go fast, go alone, If you
want to go far, go together.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
It's profound, Alex, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Have you ever heard that line? Yeah, yeah, all right,
it's right on this topic of I and we.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
I think I saw it in a bathroom book one
day when I was taking a dump. Shop Talk number
tidy two. That's it. We can get we back. There's
a roadmap and UH and blueprint to it. All we
got to do is listen to putnam Rita's research, understand
and what else is Understand, what fixed it?
Speaker 2 (16:01):
And do it again.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
That's Shop Talk number ninety two.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
We'll see you next week.
Hey, everybody, it's fill courting with that army and normal folks.
And this is shop talk number ninety two. Welcome in
to the shop. They're going crazy high Alex.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
How you doing. Welcome in the shop? Yeah two? What
I mean?
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yeah, welcoming in the shop.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Anything with today? What beautiful weather in Memphis after this ice?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
It's actually pretty? But can you believe you shop mountms
of ice out here?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Do you really? I didn't see it?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
You said that last time. Would you just open your eye?
Had you know you you almost hit one with your car? Probably?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Yeah, Actually, you gotta be safe driving in your facility.
There's often a lot of moving things around.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
You gotta be got.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
It's a manufacturing yard. It's not for you know, public whatever.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I actually love how you have the massive science, Like
what does it stay safe or pay attention?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
What's the message? Well?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
They are thank safety and stuff all over the place.
Yeah ninety two, Bill ninety two.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's going to be a defensive lineman type.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
And I can't think of one.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Reggie White at Tennessee.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I swear do you guys about say Reggie White? I
swear to you. I was going to say, Reggie should
have said it. Why are you hold him back? I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Michael straighthand ah love him. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
And then atomic numbers ninety two represents uranium?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
What that has nothing to do? That is so ridiculous.
There's no way I was going to get that. We
don't have to just talk about football. Yes, I mean,
are we? Did you say uranus? What'd you say? I
don't even know what she said.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
There's actually another podcast I listened to. Yeah, they try
to drop in uranus any chance they got?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, well why not raatest planet names ever? No? Oh man, Yeah,
this is the family show. I disagree with somebody. I
just say, Urana two.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
And a half years of doing this show in our
first year rain Sorry if we have offended anyone.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I mean, it's just a planet.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
How can you be offended by interstellar and nomenclature? Okay,
Shop Talk number ninety two, The Upswing, How America lost
WE and how it came back before? How America lost
WE and how it came back before?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
It all makes sense in a minute.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Well, I already have some ideas, but we're just gonna
go through this right after these brief messages from our
general sponsors. Hey, everybody, Welcome back to the Shop Chop
(02:56):
Talk number ninety two, The Upswinging semi colin How America
Lost we in quotation marks and how it came back
before there, that's what we're talking about. So it's a
book that's helped us make sense of something a lot
of us feel but don't always know how to name.
(03:18):
The book is The Upswing, How America Came Together a
century ago and How we can do it again, by
Robert Putnam, who we visited recently in another Shop Talk.
And Robert Putnam is clearly a cool dude. If the
name rings a bell, he's the same guy who wrote
(03:39):
Pulling Alone. So we did that all right. The Upswing
asks a deeper question, how did we get so fragmented?
And how did we ever come back together in the
first place? You know, before I go on, I think
we can all think about stuff like nine to eleven,
(04:02):
the Columbine shooting for Harbor. I could go on, but
you think about all those things that we find a
vision everything, But then some shock wave like that seems
to bring us together, and then sadly, little by little
that togetherness becomes more and more afraid. That's just my
(04:23):
own thoughts So before we go forward, who Robert Putnam is.
Putnam is a sociologist at Harvard who studies social capital.
He's a really bright guy. That's just a technical term
for something very human, trust, belonging, shared responsibility, and the
habits that hold a society together. He doesn't look at
(04:44):
trends over five years. He looks at one hundred and
fifty years of American life and economics, politics of engagement, culture,
and what he found as a clear pattern. And this
is some interesting stuff. So pay attention, big idea, the
I I arc I to we to eye that arc.
(05:09):
Putnam shows that America has gone through what he calls
an I we Ie curve, the long period of rugged individualism,
then a powerful shift toward community and shared responsibility, and
then over the last fifty years to slide back toward
everybody's for themselves. The middle period, the upswing. Now there's
(05:29):
where the key is what life was really like in
the Gilded Age. The first eye to understand the upswing,
you have to understand what came before it. The Gilded Age,
roughly eighteen seventy through nineteen hundred. On the surface, America
was booming, railroads, steel, oil, massive fortunes. Think the Vanderbilts,
(05:53):
think Rockefeller, think Carnegie. That was that period of timeunderneath
all that and all that storied history, extreme inequality, child labor,
really unsafe factories and operating units, and zero safety net
(06:14):
for when the tired and huddled masses ended their twelve
hour shifts. Wealth was concentrated at the top at levels
comparable to today. Trust was low, politics were corrupt, Civic
life was thin and fragmented. Putnam's point isn't that people
were worse back then. It's that the structure of society
(06:35):
rewarded I and punished Wei. The turn why the upswing happened.
Starting around nineteen hundred, something changed, not all at once
and not from Washington, d c. First, people began responding
to inequality, instability, and social breakdown by building institutions that
(06:55):
trained cooperation. And here's the remarkable part. Huge number of
those institutions were founded in a very tight window, basically
between nineteen oh five to nineteen seventeen. Consider that one
hundred and fifteen to one hundred, ten years ago the
institutional explosion. Listen to this list. The Rotary Club founded
(07:18):
in nineteen oh five Boy Scouts of America nineteen ten,
Girl Scouts nineteen twelve, Guanas Club nineteen fifteen, Lions Club
nineteen seventeen. In the same era, libraries exploded in number.
Settlement houses like Whole House multiplied. Faith based service organizations
grew dramatically. These were not just charities. There were civic
(07:41):
training grounds. They taught people how to lead, how to cooperate,
how to serve across class lines, and how to see
themselves as responsible for the whole. Just consider that now
what the upswing looked like and data. As these institutions
took root, the numbers shifted. Economically, inequality fell steadily from
(08:06):
the nineteen tens through the nineteen sixties. Wages rose alongside productivity.
A broad, massive, powerful middle class emerged. Civically, club membership
sward volunteering became normalized, church attendants peaked. Politically, bipartisanship became common.
(08:29):
Compromise was not a dirty word trust in institutions. As
a result of compromise and bar partimanship, trust in institutions
was high. The period peaked between nineteen forty five and
nineteen seventy the downswing back to eye then starting in
(08:50):
the seventies, early seventies, it turned again, rising, inequality, declining trust,
fewer people joining anything, loneliness becoming a public health crisis,
and politics turning back to zero sum. His famous line
still holds. Americans still bowl, they just don't bowl together.
(09:14):
We didn't stop caring, we stopped being connected. First of all,
all of that is incredible research, and the data alone
should have bells going off in your brain just for
you personally. But the way you look at society, civics,
culture and voting and politics, and your children's future and
(09:42):
your grandchildren's future, if we stop this thing right there,
that should be tingling your spine a little bit. And
if it isn't, you're not paying attention. But why does
this matter for an arm normal folks? The upswing didn't
(10:02):
start with federal policy. It started locally, with people organizing,
with service clubs with shared rituals with visible contribution. Remember
Boy Scouts but Rotary Club founded nineteen oh five, Boy
Scouts nineteen ten, Girl Scouts nineteen twelve, Wanners Club nineteen fifteen,
(10:24):
Lions Club nineteen seventeen. Those are all local things, Those
are all people organizing. Those are service clubs with shared
rituals with visible contribution. The upswing was not started by
the government. It was started by normal folks, and it
(10:45):
lasted into the seventies, sixty years of improved contribution to society,
improved trust in civics and institutions, started by normal folks.
Where are we today, Putnam is clear today looks a
(11:08):
lot like the Gilded Age again, high inequality, low trust,
fragmented communities, weak civic institutions. But there's one key difference.
And we know how this story goes, and we know
how it turns. The upswing happened once because enough people
decided we are responsible for each other, and it can
(11:31):
happen again, not through nostalgia, not through politics alone, but
through rebuilding the habits of we where we live. That's
what our local service clubs are, guys, That's what service does.
That's what happens when normal folks stop waiting. The upswing
will not start in Washington. It will start in your hometown.
(11:54):
It will start in your neighborhood, It will start in
your community. It will start on your guys. The data
is in front of us. The history teaches us how
it works and what happens when it doesn't. And the
(12:16):
irony is when we think of all these complicated, complex
issues and everything that divides us. The answer is so
very simple. It's normal folks joining community to serve. And
all of that fixes the inequality, fixes the low trust,
fixes the fragmented communities, fixes the lack of trust in
(12:40):
weak civic institutions, all of it. If you want proof,
just look at what we Americans did one hundred years ago,
look at what the Gilded Age was leading up to
what we did one hundred years ago, and view that
through a lens of where we are today. The pendulum
has swung and it's up to us to swing it back.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Alex.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
So hopefully we are on the verge of an upswing
as a country. But it feels that way is kind
of what a lot of people are saying right now.
But obviously that only happens if we all act.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And where best to act within the construct of an
army and normal folks.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
You're self serving, Bill, Jeez, it.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Is self serving, but it's there. I mean, somebody had
to come up with the rotary club, somebody had to
come up with the lions clubs, somebody had to come
up with a quantus club, and okay, so maybe those
are outdated and different, or maybe they just need a
resurgence or whatever. But in today's nomenclature and in today's
(13:41):
societal construct, an army and normal folks service club feels
just like those clubs felt like hundred ten years ago.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
And it put a couple recent facts we've discussed together.
We mentioned last episode how Rotary has lost one hundred
thousand members. You know, back in the day, it really
was like a social requirement, Like if you were a
business owner in your town, it was expected of you
to be a member of Rotary oh or Kwanas yeah,
or you know, it was expected of you to be
(14:11):
a member of your church. Now that those social expectations
are kind of gone, I think there is an opportunity
for us to create a new social expectation here and
the best way to do it, Like we talked about
in that Davidson Toola Shop talk, how behavior spreads one
is getting to the twenty percent.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So the real key is number one.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
We need to get the leaders to help start these
clubs around the country, but also everybody else listening who
may not be ready to lead, join in, Help be
a part of the leadership team, be a member, help
get to the twenty percent so that you can tip
over and eventually it becomes the same kind of social expectation,
the same way that rotary and churches used to be.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, and that's good because a lot of people would think, well,
you got to get to fifty percent to do anything. Actually,
at twenty percent is when it comes big enough that
it comes to movement. Ye. So that's it. Shop Talk
number ninety two, How America lost we and how we
came back before, and how we can do it again.
So instead of being at the eye project, it needs
(15:14):
to be the I we I Wei project. So let's
do that. If you enjoyed this episode, please share with
friends and on social subscribe to the podcast, rate and
review it. Join the army at normal folks dot us.
For goodness sakes, do something Bill. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
If you want to go fast, go alone, If you
want to go far, go together.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
It's profound, Alex, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Have you ever heard that line? Yeah, yeah, all right,
it's right on this topic of I and we.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
I think I saw it in a bathroom book one
day when I was taking a dump. Shop Talk number
tidy two. That's it. We can get we back. There's
a roadmap and UH and blueprint to it. All we
got to do is listen to putnam Rita's research, understand
and what else is Understand, what fixed it?
Speaker 2 (16:01):
And do it again.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
That's Shop Talk number ninety two.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
We'll see you next week.
Host
Bill Courtney
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The Girlfriends: Trust Me Babe
When a group of women from all over the country realise they all dated the same prolific romance scammer they vow to bring him to justice. In this brand new season of global number 1 hit podcast, The Girlfriends, Anna Sinfield meets a group of funny, feisty, determined women who all had the misfortune of dating a mysterious man named Derek Alldred. Trust Me Babe is a story about the protective forces of gossip, gut instinct, and trusting your besties and the group of women who took matters into their own hands to take down a fraudster when no one else would listen. If you’re affected by any of the themes in this show, our charity partners NO MORE have available resources at https://www.nomore.org. To learn more about romance scams, and to access specialised support, visit https://fightcybercrime.org/ The Girlfriends: Trust Me Babe is produced by Novel for iHeartPodcasts. For more from Novel, visit https://novel.audio/. You can listen to new episodes of The Girlfriends: Trust Me Babe completely ad-free and 1 week early with an iHeart True Crime+ subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Open your Apple Podcasts app, search for “iHeart True Crime+, and subscribe today!