Who Builds a Pro-Bowler? The Heroic Normal Folks Behind Demario Davis (Pt 2)

New Orleans Saints linebacker Demario Davis has spent 14 years in the NFL as one of its most respected leaders on and off the field. We could have talked with him about how he’s a two-time Pro-Bowler and his team’s nominee for the Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year Award, but instead we celebrated his own Army of Normal Folks who’ve supported his greatness— a single mom who gave birth to him at 16, a grandmother who helped raise him, a chaplain who dared to ask him the hard questions, and a wife who has been his rock. His story will show you how your greatest impact just might be some radical love to those surrounding you!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army and normal folks.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
And we continue now a part two of our conversation
with the Mario Davis right after these brief messages from
our general sponsors. So to get to it, your mom

(00:29):
and your grandma set a foundation, but you bucked the
hell out of them.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
You had it in you.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
And so their support and their part and your achieving
greatness in your life is the foundation they laid even
though it was in you. Like a lot of us
young men, the seed may be planted, but instead of
putting water on it, we may step all over it.
And sounds like that's what you're doing up until the point.

(00:59):
And the next person that kind of stepped in for
you as someone who's supported your greatness this guy named
Chuck Michael Roy. Yeah, tell us about Chuck.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
So, Chuck was our team's chaplain. He was a Mississippi
guy and had.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Kind of Arkansas State's team.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Arkansas State, Yeah, Arkansas State college football team. He was
the campus director for an organization called Campus Outreach, which
I think the closest comparison of it is Campus Crusades.
And so you know it's this parachurch ministry that's on
campus called campus outreach, that I had no understandable who

(01:42):
they were, what they did.

Speaker 4 (01:43):
I just knew he was the team chaplain.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
He would come by my freshman year and he'd be
doing Bible studies, and I knew to go.

Speaker 4 (01:51):
To those Bible studies. That's just because how I was raised.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
But you know, and I kind of could go in
and answer us a few questions just to kind of
make myself feel good and check the box, and then
i'd be out. And that was my kind of understanding
of who he was and my relationship with him up
to that point. Well, once I got out of jail,
I don't know if it was intentionally or not, but
all of a sudden, I felt like he took a

(02:14):
particular interest in me.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
He started to.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
You know, just invite me to lunch and you know,
invite me to hang out. And at first, you know,
I didn't think nothing about it. You know, he'd be like,
you want to go out for coffee, I'll pay sure,
let's go.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
He get a coffee.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
I don't think I was even drinking coffee at the time.
I would get like a hot chocolate or something and
just just kind of talk and then you take me
out to lunch. You want to go get some wings
or something, and you know, sure, I'm hungry. You know,
let's let's go. Or you want to go over to
the rink and play some basketball, got some got a
group of guys.

Speaker 4 (02:49):
Sure I'll go.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
You know, I'm not thinking much of it, and we're
just kind of hanging out. And then one lunch were
out eating and he just starts asking me like harder
questions and kind of compleated questions that I kind of
knew what the right answer was, but I didn't know
how to answer the questions. He would just say, like,
are you a Christian? I'm like, yeah, I'm a Christian.
You know what do you think a Christian life looks like?

(03:12):
And I was just like, you know, somebody kind of
go to church? Do you know, do the right thing?
You try to do more.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Right than wrong?

Speaker 4 (03:18):
And you know what, what do you think saying is?

Speaker 3 (03:21):
And if you would have died to day on a
scale one to ten, how sure you that you would
go to heaven? You know, just asking me really complicated questions,
but not being judgmental.

Speaker 4 (03:31):
That's what I remember. Want anything.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
He wouldn't be judgemental. He wouldn't try to give me,
give me what the answer was. He would just listen.
He would just be like okay, okay, and uh, these
just were questions that I began to wrestle with. But
then it became uncomfortable to hang out with him, and
so it's like call me. He would call me and
ask me did I want to go to lunch? And
I just try to give him a run around, like

(03:53):
I got something.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Games, No, man, I don't want to think about that stuff.
I just want.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
To try trying to think about all that man, because
I know what you want at this point.

Speaker 4 (04:03):
And but he would not, you know, let me off
the hook.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
He would just constantly pursue me, and you know, he
was like, well I got something today.

Speaker 4 (04:12):
Well what about tomorrow? I think I got something.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
After that, he was like, well when can when can
we get you know, when can I get on your schedule?
And uh, we pick a day and then we'd be
back in and he'd asked me challenging questions and this
kind of dance went on for a while and then
he started to, you know, say, well, are you okay
if I show you in the Bible what the answer

(04:34):
to some of these questions are, and I was like, absolutely,
and so he just started, you know, opening up the.

Speaker 4 (04:39):
Text and showing me things and kind of made sense.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
A lot of it didn't, but I would just try
to entertain the time to pass it by. And one
weekend he asked me to go to Nashville for a
conference that Campus Outreach hosts every year. I was like,
I wanted to go to it, and I was just
kind of give them the run around. But really what

(05:03):
excited me was that they had this huge basketball tournament
down there, and all these schools from other schools, but
they had this huge three or three basketball tournament. I'm like,
if I don't go for nothing else, I'm going for that.
So I just kind of told them, like, y'all go
and kind of to get them off my back kind
of because it was a basketball tournament, but I wasn't
sure that I would go for real. And then we

(05:25):
go home for Christmas break and my grandmother passed away.
Now my grandmother had dementia for a while at this point,
so I had already said my goodbye, so you know,
she kind of had dementia for the last few years
of her life, and once I realized that she really
wasn't there no more. You know, I had already kind
of got all my tears out, and so this passing
was really just formality at this point. Being that she

(05:48):
was the closest person to me, it was really hard
for me to kind of let that what we had go.
But I have core memories that I had saved inside
for me. But she passed away and my mom was
having a real hard time.

Speaker 4 (06:01):
You know.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
Me and my mom kind of had this dynamic to
where if she told me something, you know, I kind
of bucked the system, but if it ever brought her
to tears, I just kind of gave in. And I
remember it like like yesterday we were.

Speaker 4 (06:19):
We were out on a walk and we're kind of
walking around.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
I know my grandmother's you know, passing is kind of
you know, bothering her. But I tell her, I'm like,
my I really feel I just had this, I don't
know kind of unction to go to this this conference.
I'm like, man, I think I really need to go
to this conference. And my mom was like, you know,
it's a bad time, you know, just with your grandmother's passing.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
Like I don't even want to think about that right now.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
I can't try to take you out there and get
you there, and I'm like, Mom, I'm.

Speaker 4 (06:52):
Not trying to be rude, but I need to do
this for me.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
And you know, we kind of had, you know, a disagreement,
and my mom was like, well, if you want to
go to this conference, I'm not driving you.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
You're gonna have to get.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
On a greyhound and go on your own. I'll get
you a bus ticket, and you gotta go. And I
think she was at the time thinking like that that
was going to be the point where I backed down,
but I was so convicted that I needed to be there,
and I was just like, Okay, get the bus ticket,
I'll go. And I think she thought I was going
to change my mind, but I wasn't. I was I

(07:27):
was all the way locked in. And so I got
on a I got on a Greyhound from Jackson, Mississippi,
and caught a bus to the conference. And it really
became this big thing because people couldn't believe that I
had caught a greyhound to get to this conference and

(07:47):
I didn't even know why I was there. I mean,
I walked in the first day. I thought I made
a mistake, Like it's smoked all in the place. People
got their hands raised. It's music I've never heard. I
come from Deep South gospel choir. I know nothing about
contemporary worship, and people were having their hands up. The
only movement you see in churches if a random person

(08:08):
catches the Holy Spirit. Other than that, everybody seated and shouting.
They men, there's nobody on their feet, and I'm like, man,
where am I?

Speaker 4 (08:17):
Where am I? What is this? And it really just
about okay, let me buy time to this basketball tournament.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
But over the time there were some dynamic speakers and
this one preacher kind of got up and preached and
when he finished, you know, the worship song kind of
came on, and it was like the scales were removed
from my eyes, and for the first time in my life,

(08:44):
I understood why Jesus had to die, and that there
was nothing that we could do to work our way
to God, that there was no balance of.

Speaker 4 (08:53):
Right versus wrong.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
I do more right and wrong, that there was no scale,
that we are all short of His glory, and that
literally Jesus had to come to create a bridge for
us to God, and through his life we are made
clean that we can come into the right relationship with God.
It made sense, and all of a sudden, all the
words of the worship song started to make sense. It
wasn't just words on the screen. Everything that the speakers

(09:15):
were saying made sense. It was going directly to the heart.
And I understood it for the first time, and I
understood what multiplication was and what discipleship was, and how
people are coming to the foe.

Speaker 4 (09:25):
And I was like, it hit me so much.

Speaker 3 (09:28):
Jeremiah talks about like a fire being up in our bones,
Like that's what happened. A fire was lit inside of
me and came alive. And it was like, man, I
understand it. I understand where there is misinterpretation or misconception,
and I want to go and help people get it.
I want to go back to where I've been because
I know, like a lot of people in my neighborhood,

(09:48):
in my community or playing church, they don't understand this,
and I want to go and tell people about it.
And literally I kind of come out of there and
I'm talking to some people in the hallway and at
the conference. This is maybe the second night I'm in
the conference, and I come out. I'm sharing people about
what's taken place inside of me, and I'm just talking

(10:10):
to one person, but by the time I look up,
it's like twenty five people around me. And literally I
saw a picture in that moment like that, that's how
God would use me. I would be sharing his gospel
to many. And I saw it, and I had no
one understanding of the Bible. I had no understanding of,
you know, preaching sermons or really understanding God's texts and
making it come alive. But it was just about if

(10:31):
you really let go of your life and let God
come in, then he'll catch you. He'll be your safety net.
That's really what I was preaching at that moment. And
so then I go to talk to Chuck, and Chuck
is talking to me and he's like, well, what's going on?
And I'm like, I literally feel like a caterpillar just
became a butterfly. And he's he lets me know, He's like,

(10:52):
I believe what is taking place is that you have
given your life to Christ.

Speaker 4 (10:58):
And then from there.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
We kind of out of that and he walks me
through discipleship, he walks me to learning how to share
my testimony what happened to me. He walks me through
like how you lead a Bible study how you disciple
other men, how you bring somebody to Christ. And with
him I ended up walking through evangelism training and he
really laid the foundation or helped me lay the foundation

(11:21):
for my spiritual life. And over the course of the
next two years, I became a leader inside of campus
outreach and really a leader on campus and on my
football team through my faith. And he was probably single
handedly most responsible for that transformation that took place in me.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
First of all, it's Chuck still with us.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
Yeah, he's he's He's still He's still moving and kicking.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
I hope Chuck listens to this because if your Chuck,
I cannot imagine a better tribute to the legacy of
one life for another man to have said, I've been
led where I am in evangelism, my faith and as
a leader because of this man's pursuit of me. So, Chuck,

(12:14):
if you're listening, you can you know could done well
and faithful servant. Interestingly, you said Chuck wouldn't leave you alone.
It was he just kept calling and no matter how
many times you shut the door after you asked, you
those first questions that made you uncomfortable, and you just
went from one hot chocolate, some food, some wings to

(12:35):
Now this guy is asking stuff I want to talk about.
It's interesting that we're called to be christ Like and
Jesus has a relentless pursuit of each of us, and
Chuck had a relentless pursuit of you.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
Absolutely, I think I wrestled with that often when I'm
mentoring other individuals, and I can kind of tell the
way that I'm you know, kind of pro then is
making them a little uncomfortable at stand offish, and.

Speaker 4 (13:05):
Sometimes it's kind of hard to deal with that rejection.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Well, and how far how far do you go? Yeah,
I get it.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
I mean you're ultimately you have to ask the questions
and talk about the important stuff. So how long do
you build a relationship so that there's a comfort level
even receiving that kind of conversation? And then how far
do you push it before you chase somebody away? And
it's a it's a line you gotta walk.

Speaker 4 (13:33):
It's a delicate balance.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
And I think about my own life because Chuck, you know,
some of my later conversation, he was like, I never
thought that that it would be you, that the that
the seed would go deepest in, that that would be
the one that falls with. So he was like, it
was other guys who were I felt like we're further
along or were more receptive to what I was sharing

(13:57):
that I thought would be the ones that that ended
up getting it. And he was just like, you just
never know. All you're doing is just being faithful with
what you've been given. And I think about if he
had not continued to pursue me, what would my life
look like? And then what would so many people who've
been impacted by my life not have received had I

(14:21):
not received what I received from him? And so I
think that's why we continue to go. And it is
a delicate balance because you do want to nurture the relationship,
but I don't want to nurture the relationship so much
at the expense of not making sure that the Gospel
is shared. And I think that it wasn't his continuation

(14:46):
of sharing it, like when I came to Christ, all
of the seas that he had already planted made sense.
As I came to Christ, everything that my mom instilled
to me and my grandmother had instilled in me, It's
really accelerated my growth so fast.

Speaker 4 (15:02):
So it wasn't like I was learning all of this,
you know.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Just from scratch. I had all the ingredients. This was
just showing me how to put it all together. And
I think we have to take on our mentorship and
I'm pouring into individuals with the right heart and sincerity,
which is what I felt. And so, but we don't
know ultimately how the seed is going to grow. And

(15:27):
so if we just show up and we plant, we
show up and we water and we do that, ultimately
someth to God for the growth, because if you go
up and you're sharing with somebody, you don't know what's
already in there. So Chuck was actually building on a
foundation that was already laid by my grandmother and my mother.
They had planted so many seeds that were down in

(15:47):
there that when it actually took roots, it just it
sprouted quickly.

Speaker 4 (15:51):
It was like the Chinese bamboo tree.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
That you water for five years before it even breaks ground,
but then when it breaks ground, it grows in six weeks,
you know, one hundred feet tall. And that's really my
I feel like faith progression accelerated so rapidly that literally
I went from being this really negative leader that was

(16:18):
that had my teammates, you know, smoking weed and partying,
you know, kind of doing all this stuff and kind
of living a life of mischief to.

Speaker 4 (16:29):
A couple of years.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
Our team Bible study is fifty players deep, and I'm
leading that and kind of the same on campus. Were
doing these revivals on campus and we got two hundred
three hundred students there and I'm leading that. And it
was because of you know, all of that foundation of

(16:52):
wisdom and doing the right thing and caring about people
and hospitality that my grandmother and mother had laid.

Speaker 4 (16:59):
And then and you know, being able to understand the.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
Tools and organizational structure of the faith that Chuck was
able to teach me through Bible study and discipleship, and
so it accelerated my growth rapidly.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
We'll be right back.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
It's interesting you talk about Chuck's question to you that
ultimately made you really think deeply that you ran from
my I have four kids, and you know, we're football family.
My youngest son, his junior and high school, was on
actually it was starting free safety, but the gunner on

(17:52):
the outside. We just scored the gun on the outside
the kickoff at twist's ankle, and the coach just special teams.
Coach said, I need a gunner. Max just ran out
there wasn't even supposed to be on kickoff. He covered
the kickoff team and it was a short kick and
so a kind of a bigger upback caught it rather
than a skill player in the back. And Max was

(18:13):
first there, and you know, on a bigger guy, and
when you have all that momentum going, if you can't
get him low.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
He kind of got him around.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
His waist and so he couldn't bring him down, but
all his momentum kind of took him parallel with the ground,
kind of helicopter around his body while he was holding
him on the waist. You've seen that right yep. Well,
on the backside a guy was coming and Max, with
all that force going around the backside come another guy.
Guys hit Max right in the ribs, underneath the underneath

(18:48):
his rib protectors and above his hip pads, just right
in that soft spot. Max was kind of the guy
that that fully understood from a coach's dad, there's a
difference of being hurt injured. If you're hurt, get your
butt up and let's roll. If you're injured, go to
the hospital. So Max, I always thought people that laid
around on the ground on a football field were kind

(19:10):
of weenies, and I'd never seen coaching Max my whole life.
I'd never seen him not get up, So when he
was laying there, I knew he was hurting. Finally came off.
He once got some water. Team Doc checked him out.
Team Doc said, look, Bill, I'm pretty sure he's broken

(19:30):
a rib at the very least deep bruise. I'm taking
this helmet from him. He doesn't need to play. And
right then, as they're saying that, Max is running onto
the field with his helmet and.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
They're calling him back off.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Anyway, About fifteen minutes later, team doc comes to me
and I mean, I'm you know, I'm coaching. Team Doc
comes to me and says, hey, man, I am positive
now because of the discomfort he's in. His rips are broken.
I want to go ahead and get him the hospital. Now,
get him checked out. Long story short. On the way

(20:04):
to the hospital, he coated. When they got him to
the hospital, he was flatlined. They revived him. They put
five units of blood in them, and what had happened
is he'd broken three ribs, one of his lungs has collapsed,
and his spleenet exploded. They airlifted him, and I'm still

(20:25):
coaching a football game.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
I don't even know any of this going on.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
My wife is passed out because she's freaked out because
she took him to the hospital. But long story short,
they saved his life at the Regional Trauma Center after
they flew him from that first hospital there. The next day,
you know, we're around him in intensive care and one

(20:49):
of his coaches, who is a dear, dear, dear friend
of mine to this day, comes to visit him. And
everybody had been visiting him and they were bringing them
balloons and flowers and all of and he's just been
through major surgery. He feels like crap. He's on pain
meds and he's kind of in and out with visitors.
And I mean there were hundreds of them, right, I mean,

(21:12):
a high school kid go through that. Everybody shows up
and all of it was well wishes and all of that,
except for a coach, Brandon Tucker. Brandon walks in. He
kneels by Max's bed and he said, Max, can you
see me? And Max said yes, sir, and he said,

(21:33):
look in my eyes. Max turned his head couldn't really
sit up stitched. I mean, he was cut from below
his navel all the way up to his starnum. They
opened him up and he looked at him. He said, yes, sir,
And Coach Tucker looked at Max. He said, Max, is
it well with your soul? And Max said what do

(21:54):
you mean? And he said, if you died last night,
where would you be?

Speaker 1 (22:01):
My son?

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Max is now twenty seven, twenty eight, and he would
have given you a run, Tomorrio for your foolishness. In
high school. Max was with him. Max would have been
running with you, wide open and competing to be a
little better than you than being a dummy. Yes, sir,
and Max will tell you today that that question changed

(22:24):
his life. So when you talk about Chuck McElroy, you
know I kind of, I really, on a very deep level,
feel what Chuck meant to you, because I know that's
what Brandon Tucker meant to Max. And I saw a
transformation in Max from a near death experience and a

(22:47):
man who loved him enough to ask him the hard questions.

Speaker 4 (22:51):
Yes, sir, Yes, sir, Yes sir.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
And that feels like what Chuck was to you.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
Oh man, I think anyone who loves you enough to
make sure your soul as well, like it is not
to make people feel good, because if you just show

(23:19):
up to make people feel good, if you are showing
up to make sure that they feel cared for, or
you know, homeless people you're trying to make sure they
have shelter, or people who.

Speaker 4 (23:31):
Are starving making sure that they have food.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
If you are you are doing all these things, you're
just giving them a comfortable ride to hell.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
You're giving them a comfortable ride down. That's a great line.
It's so true. Yes, it's so true.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
All right.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
So the most loving thing that you can do to
make sure their soul as well.

Speaker 4 (23:57):
At the end of the day, do you know where
you're to reside when you leave this place? That's the
most important question.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
And after that it's you know, okay, well we can
build on there. There's plenty of things that we can
do to build on that, because you know you're going
to spend eternity in the Kingdom and what you do
once you're there. But first we got to get you
to the other side. While you're living, Mom and Grandma
set the foundation. Chuck had relentless pursuit to give you

(24:25):
the understanding of your evangelism and what serviceman to you.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
But then.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
Oddly, the next person who I think you celebrate along
your path to greatness that supported your greatness came along
in a medieval literature course. And that's the weirdest thing.
I can't even believe I'm talking to a dude about
a medieval literature course. But what the world is all

(24:57):
that about, broh.

Speaker 4 (24:59):
Man, I do not even know. So God was working
long before I knew what he was doing.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
I get ready to go into my senior year, and
I had kind of came into college with a graduated
early plan. It was because I was doing the summer courses.
So if I'm gonna be there all over the summers,
you know, let's go in and expedite how long it's
gonna take me to kind of graduate. So going into
my senior year, I wasn't supposed to have, you know,

(25:32):
any kind of like class where you write papers. I
was in communication, so it was all about being on
the radio, making films. It was all hands on projects
at this point. Well, I got to my senior year
and going into that fall, my academic advisor told me
that I needed to take more.

Speaker 4 (25:50):
Liberal arts and science classes.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
I hadn't I didn't have enough of them, and I
was like, you know, kind of what is that? And
essentially where you're gonna have to write a bunch of
pays and I was, I was up in arms about it,
but it was just like, you know, okay, what do
I gotta do? And essentially they told me that it
was going to take me an additional semester to graduate,

(26:12):
and so that's what I really didn't like. And I
was like, well, you know, essentially I got to get
all of this in before next May, because I know
I want to go to the.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
League and I don't want to be having to you know,
not graduate before I before I finished. And so I
was like, okay, well let's just do it.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
So I stacked my classes, you know, that entire fall
and next spring with all the classes.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
That I needed. I mean, I was jamming like twenty
hours in both semesters.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
When you say twenty eighteen twenty hours, that's hard, that's
hard just a student. They don't understand the other six
hours you're spending a practice in the weight room, on
the field and film study in team meetings and position
meetings and everything else. Man, When you talk about stack
at twenty hours two semesters role while being a varsity

(27:10):
athlete at the collegiate level. Folks don't understand you couldn't
have been asleep in more than three four hours.

Speaker 3 (27:15):
And now it was crazy. I mean literally, I had
my It's taught me a lot of discipline. So when
I was in class and when I had football, with
the hours that I couldn't allocate my time too because
it was already taken up. And so literally I learned
how to work with a calendar and started to block
out my day when I would write certain papers when
I was study for each class, and literally would block

(27:36):
off time to do it all. Like my day from
Monday through Sunday was accounted for, all my time. And
I got extremely disciplined, and God had gotten me to
a place a super maturity for a college student. At
this time, I was leading Bible study, I was leading
another group on campus. I was a leader in campus outreach,

(27:57):
and I was very disciplined and I would just go
do my class work, do my schoolwork, and whatever other
leadership obligations that I had.

Speaker 4 (28:04):
And I was like locked in.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
And so I get to the end of December and literally,
because of what had taken place, now I got to
get the next set of classes, and those classes where
I remember talking to micademic advisor was just like, as
long as I don't take medieval, I'm good.

Speaker 4 (28:22):
I had a.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
Bad experience in high school, and I was just like, yeah,
no Medieval for me. Whatever else they got, let me
get that. And so I locked it in and then
I come back in the spring. You know, you book
your schedule before you leave and then you come back.
I came back and I remember my academic advisor called
me over and was saying, hey, there was something messed
up in the system. We got to get you another class.

(28:45):
And the only class that I could take was Medieval.
So I was I was forced to take that class
after I said absolutely not and lower me home. Oh
that was the class that I would end up meeting
my my my future wife man. And uh, it was

(29:06):
a couple of classes. You know, we would all went
to African Americans in the class, so you know, you
kind of recognize that, but at the time, I'm I'm
you know, I'm so.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Actually actually what you said was, and I quote, So
I go to class and Tamla the only chocolates in there.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
You use the word chocolates.

Speaker 4 (29:27):
Absolutely so she was sitting in the back. I stole them.
I strow them. It's kind of my claim the fame.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Over black jelly beans and a jar full of white ones.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
Man. So, uh, I kind of go into class and
I noticed her, but I'm so focused at this point,
like girls aren't even on my you know, not even
what I'm thinking.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
And you know, the schedule.

Speaker 4 (29:53):
Yeah, there ain't no time. Ain't no time for that.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
And uh but God had already told me that, you know,
when I was ready, that he would bring my wife
to me.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
And I was.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
Kind of in that phase of I knew I was looking,
but I wasn't, you know, actively dating or doing anything
like that.

Speaker 4 (30:10):
So, you know, a little bit into it.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
We became really good friends and once we had our
first conversation, it was just kind of like a match
was lit. Like we became great friends really fast, hanging
out all the time. And I met her in January,
and by May I had asked her to be my girlfriend.
And I told her that, you know, I was I
wasn't just you know, kind of asking me my girlfriend,

(30:33):
but I was looking for a wife, and that's what
I was evaluating, to see if we could be married,
and I didn't know how she would take that, but man,
she had this huge smile that came across her face
when I said that.

Speaker 4 (30:44):
And it was on from there.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
Man, we had this this unique level of attraction for
one another that that that wasn't just romantic. It was,
like I said, we had a deep friendship, and it
just we just liked being around each other. And man,
that just continued to grow in you know, I proposed
in December, and literally that next year, I got drafted,

(31:10):
and we got married in the same year of twenty twelve,
and our life began. We were in New York and
so literally it happened so fast, just kind of our
dating period. And then the next thing, you know, we're
married and we're thrust into to life together.

Speaker 4 (31:27):
And man, we.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
Have just over the years just continue to grow that friendship.
We are literally the best of friends. We've had many, many,
many high times together and a few really low moments
just in dealing with with kids and the different things
that come up in marriage. But we are the best

(31:49):
of friends, and we continue to learn more and more
about each other, and you know, just what we are
fourteen years in we all want accord have six beautiful kids. Man,
God knew he was doing something. He knew I needed.
He knew I needed a helpmate. Like when God said
it's not good for men to be alone, I feel
like he was talking specifically about me.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
We'll be right back.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Once you decided she was going to be your girlfriend,
you guys made a very uncommon college that age choice
leading up to your marriage.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
Would you share that, Yeah, I mean I was celibate
at the time. I was celibate at the time. I
had been celibate for I want to say two years
up to.

Speaker 4 (32:51):
Meeting her, and.

Speaker 3 (32:55):
I had asked her to be my girlfriend, or asked
her to be my Valentine in February, and I told
her it was only on one condition. She needed to
be my Valentine for the whole weekend because I really
wanted to spoil. I really wanted to kind of go
in and you know, put all my charm out there.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
And your game. Man. Yeah, I had to do.

Speaker 3 (33:16):
What the kids called ribs these days. And uh, I
didn't know. She was like, I don't know about that.
And I was kind of hesitating because I thought I
was a good catcher.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
You know.

Speaker 4 (33:28):
I was like, well, why why you gotta have hesitation,
what's up with that?

Speaker 3 (33:31):
But she was really evaluatingding with one of her friends
that told her, like, the reason I wanted her to
put a weekend was because I was trying to get
her draws, you know.

Speaker 4 (33:39):
And uh, and she was like, hold up, that ain't happening,
you know.

Speaker 3 (33:44):
And so when I told her, we were just having
a conversation, was hanging out and I was talking to
one of my friends and uh, he was like, you've
been you celibate? And I was like, yeah, He's like,
how long have you been celibate? She was another room.
I was like two years and she said she heard
it that moment, and that's when she knew it was
like okay to come back and tell me. Yeah, and

(34:05):
but yeah, I'd been set up it for two years
at that point. And so for for me, you know,
it was you know, off the table. That wasn't even
an option that you know, you know, having sex, like
that's that's not the way I want to kind of
enter this thing. And it was to be my first
relationship that was actually pure, and uh, you know, I
kind of let her know that that's what I was about,

(34:26):
and she she respected that and wanted that, and uh
so it became you know, both of us protecting, you know,
our priority to the finish line, which was really hard
to do because once you kind of know who your
person is, is all these justifications that want to kind
of come in your your head as to why you
could go ahead and cross those lines.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Man, I know now why you have six kids, because
you had a whole lot of stored up sexual energy.
Absolutely as an aside my wife Lisa of thirty five
years and our four children. You know, I can't help
but hear you and just share with you and kind

(35:09):
of tap it up with you virtually. She's my best friend.
She's right now away for four days, and she left
yesterday and I woke up this morning really lonely, and
I've kind of been sad all day because she's so
far away right now. And so I feel you when

(35:32):
you say you made your best friend and how important
that is. And I have an enormous amount of respect
for your approach to having a pure relationship leading up
to marriage. But it also speaks to her love for
you and her being a best friend. And I got

(35:54):
to ask, you're a good looking dude. You're in the
league ten years. I've coached a lot of kids over
thirty five years, and I've coached a number of movement
in the league, and I have friends with championship rings
and Super Bowl rings, So I understand. I've never been there,
but I understand through their experiences the trappings of the league.

(36:21):
And you know, man, everybody thinks these young, buckstrong, hyper
aggressive type A personalities with a pocket full of money. Man,
there are thousands of women lined up to tap into that.

(36:45):
And the strength that takes to avoid that can only
come from both faith and being hitched to your best friend.

Speaker 3 (36:55):
Absolutely. Number one has had to be faith. You have
to have a foundation that has to be a reason why.
That's greater than anything else. I think the best friend
piece is what helps you navigate it. But it has
to be it has to be real because it's gonna
be tested. It has to be the real thing. And

(37:19):
I think I kind of came into the league. I
had all these you know, kind of coming out of
a college ministry.

Speaker 4 (37:27):
I had all these practical things and tools to kind
of put into place.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
But being tested on a college level and being tested
in the program is it is totally different.

Speaker 4 (37:40):
It's totally different. And I didn't.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
I didn't handle it perfect. I didn't handle it perfect.
I mean I think for a long time I was.
I was, I was very solid. But probably around you
your seven or year eight that the testings got real.
And if it had not been for my accountability team,
some some very strong pastors, some very strong counseling, and

(38:04):
the grace of my wife, I would have I would
have been destroyed.

Speaker 4 (38:08):
I would have been destroyed.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Too much power, too much money, too quick if you
don't have a foundation and a team around you of
love and grace and compassion and friendship to support you
through all that.

Speaker 4 (38:20):
Absolutely, absolutely, And it's a journey and you have to
make sure.

Speaker 3 (38:25):
I think that's what when I'm talking to to men, especially,
you better make sure you got the real thing on
the inside and that you've done the real work.

Speaker 4 (38:34):
Because the enemy knows. The enemy watch all your film
and he gonna come.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
I love that he is.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
He's right now off in the film room watching all
your film.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
He knows every move.

Speaker 4 (38:49):
And tod ain't if he coming, is when he coming
and how?

Speaker 3 (38:52):
And the biggest thing, I think, one of the biggest
things that I had to learn through through my journey
and my struggles where the first thing you gotta drop
is your pride, and that's what happens in this space.
I think your pride get built up so high so
you may think like, oh I can I can play
with fire, like I know I'm not gonna cross the line.

Speaker 4 (39:11):
Especially when you've been walking.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
A spiritual journey for a certain amount of time, You're like, Okay, well,
I know how the enemy gonna come. I'm ready. I
got all these tactics. And it's like the way you
think the enemy coming ain't the way that the enemy
is coming. And I think that's what has moved me
into the space now to where me and me and

(39:33):
my wife are is because we had to journey through
a lot of that, and her level of grace and
her level of her for the two with the Lord
emboldened me to go through the fire and come out
the other side with a lot of scars, but not unburnt.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
The Mario Davis, your mom, your grandma giving you the
right foundation, Chuck Michelroy with relentless pursuit to to help
you on your path toward faithful leadership and the love
and the grace and the friendship of Tamila and really,

(40:13):
the story could end there and we could rap, because
that's an amazing group of people, in an army of
normal folks who has supported you and anybody who's made
it through a decade in the league and been nominated
for the Walter Payton designation and gained the respect of

(40:34):
the league and the people in the locker room much
more than just being an all pro, but being an
all world human. That's enough. But the truth is all
of that, while it is incredible and awesome, it really
hadn't been your end goal. And I'd like now to

(40:56):
transition to let our listeners hear about this well, and
I want to set it up. So much of the
NFL world is misunderstood and simultaneously sensationalized. I wish our
listeners would understand. We get all of the media about

(41:17):
the fifty million dollar contracts and all that, but supporting
all of that, a lot of times are dudes that
are free agents, that are on practice squads, that are
working just as hard as the guys and sometimes twice
as hard as the guys making the big million dollar
contracts we hear about, and they're on the league minimum.

(41:39):
And the reason I'm saying that is the NFL is
certainly full of multimillionaires, but there's far more people you
don't know about who are just dudes trying to make
a check and literally living year to year and sometimes
game to game. So even even in that world, you're

(42:01):
surrounded with this wide cross section of people in different
walks of life, and you navigated that and you're successful
into both on the field and off the field at
an extraordinary high level. And we give tribute to your mom,
your Grandma, Chuck and Tamila to help you get there.
But now to transition out of all that and partner

(42:24):
with our shared partners stand together. I really want to
know how you got to be in the cool spot
you are now supporting other people's greatness and what in
the world Devoter Dreamers Foundation is and what life is
now as tomorrow uses the foundation of these three people

(42:47):
that support it as greatness, the decade of work in
the NFL to now do what seems to be now you're.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
Calling, Yeah, it's interesting that we really just had my
wife and I had really a heart.

Speaker 4 (43:02):
To give back that was molded out of our story.
We saw the gaps that.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
Existed in society as far as.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
You know, education that really became a bridge for us.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
It was because we ultimately ended up in college that
became a new space, and a lot of kids kind
of missed that bridge coming out of high school for
a lot of reasons.

Speaker 4 (43:26):
What I saw was a gap in reading, comprehension and.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
A basic arithmetic, And what she saw was that the
system was heavily around testing but wasn't around people learning.
And so we kind of set out on a quest
initially to solve that. We started to vote to Dreamers
in twenty thirteen, and it really was just equip the
next generation of leaders spiritually, mentally, and physically, making sure
that they had everything that they needed to reach their dreams.

(43:54):
How could we be the bridge from where they were
in life and helped them kind of get to that
next point, which could be college, trade school, you know, entrepreneurship,
career endeavor. How do we get them, you know, across
that bridge. And it really was just wrap around support
for them, their family, resources, tools, access, and really understanding

(44:15):
and hearing them. And so we were on this mission
for individualized education I think became before it became like
a cool and heavily used tagline. And then along that journey,
We didn't just believe in kids flourishing, we believed in
human flourishing. And so that's actually how we came into
contact with Standing Together kind of on you know, two

(44:38):
different tracks.

Speaker 4 (44:39):
So we were working our way up.

Speaker 3 (44:40):
With devoted dreamers and for a greater part of a
decade working with that.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
Well.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
At the same time, we became involved with a Players Coalition,
which partnered with the NFL to deal with economic mobility,
criminal justice reform, all these social justice pillars that were
kind of dealing with with gaps that were in the
margins of society. And Standing Together kind of came into

(45:06):
contact with Player's Coalition through Cafe Momentum, and as I
was kind of you know, learning about them, I was
really intrigued about what they were doing.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
Chad House was a bad man that we're in the
letter right now.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
We went to Cafe Momentum here last night. It's just
incredible just to that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
Sorry to interrupt you, but when you when you said
Cafe Momentum, Chad Houser has been a guest, and I
think the world and what he's done.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Off the chain, and so kind of there was an
overlap and I became intrigued at what they were doing
at a higher level, and at that time they kind
of got wind of what we were doing in Devoted
Dreamers and wanted to really come behind us as as
social entrepreneurs and really become a gust behind us. And
we just kind of went on this journey together. We
we uh did kind of the principal base management module

(45:58):
and really started to dream together and think about what
was possible around Devoted Dreams Academy and really taking it
to the next level, but really being able to speak
into across several pillars, but especially around individual education and
kind of really amplifying the volume of that being a
social wave of change. And so that really has helped

(46:20):
take the Voted Dreams to the next level and really
been influential and kind of our models other people want
to kind of model and build out. And so we've
been able to be voices of expertise out of a
road that we pioneered very early on and have kind
of been you know, driving down.

Speaker 4 (46:38):
For a while.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
It's really just about, you know, understanding that kids are unique.
They all have their strengths, they all have their limitations,
and the earlier that you can kind of tap into
that and really make sure that they feel seen and
heard and understood and care for and motivated. I mean,
you just changed the landscape of the amount of kids

(47:03):
that are falling between the cracks and it really just
produced a better society. But at the same time, our
end goal is human for flourishing. It's understanding that what.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
I was going to ask say that again our end goal,
that's that's really what I wanted to get to with
regard to voter Dreamers Foundation is what's the end goal.

Speaker 4 (47:24):
The end goal is human flourishing. That's so it's not
just kids.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
We want everybody to note that it's never too early
and never too late to dream and God has uniquely
placed something inside you.

Speaker 4 (47:40):
We are all different.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
If you want to know how different we are, you
got to do is look at look at our fingerprints.

Speaker 4 (47:44):
There are no two sets of fingerprints that are exactly
the same.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
And what that means is you have unique gifts and
strengths that I don't have or anyone else has. And
it's about being able to identify that and be able
to pull that out and maximize that and how.

Speaker 4 (48:02):
Do you help people self actualized? And we believe it's
a bottom of approach.

Speaker 3 (48:07):
It's not a top down, it's not a blanket that's
going to come in and be a solve for everybody.
You have to get on the ground with people. You
have to understand them, you have to pour into them.
And that's what it means to be a good neighbor.
It's where are you, what's your need? And how can
I help you become the best version of yourself. That's
what we believe in and how do you live that out?

(48:27):
It looks different in every single space. It's just about
showing up, being real, being authentic, and encourage other people
to be authentic. And in that real human and human connection,
that's where the dreams that are beyond our imaginations they lie.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
I wish we had four more hours and I'm going
to see you, I think in a few months at
Standing Together thing and yeah, I'm buy you some wings
and hot chocolate and We're gonna hang out for a
minute because I got a lot more to talk about
with you.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
I'm here for it. I canna wait, man, We'll be
right back.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
Alex, our producer does and the team that support this
whole Rick and Roll show, we do do a really
good job of v me a lot of information, but
it's on me to read it all and assimilate it
and figure out how I'm gonna try to tell your
story in a halfway concise way that people are interested
in and and do you justice. Part of that was

(49:47):
a clip I watched of you, and I think it
was at a Saints press conference after a game, because
you said it was Sunday and you said today supposed
to be worshiping and instead of playing a game, and
I guess that's where you're supposed to answer questions about
a game, but instead you shocked me because you opened

(50:10):
with scripture out of revelations, and then you talked about
your child and her struggle with epilepsy. So just because
you're this big NFL player doesn't mean you don't have
normal person problems. I'd like you to share with us

(50:35):
for a perspective for everybody listening about the work you're
doing with the voted Dreamers, that you wouldn't have been
there without your mom and your grandma and Chuck McElroy
and Tandla, And it hadn't just been a cruise. Even
though you got over your difficulties in high school and college,
you're a real person. And real people, normal folks have issues,

(50:57):
and you've got daughters who have battled sickness, and it
led to a really unconventional postgame speech that was a
couple of years ago that I watched, and I want
to ask you one to just kind of concisely, in
the interest of time, tell that story so that our

(51:18):
people have even greater perspective on you, and that just
because you're an NFL doesn't mean all things are perfect
and peachy and cream. We all struggle and we got
to overcome those struggles to have an effect in this world.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
But the second part of that question, I couldn't help.
But wonder.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Is the people in that room listening to you that
the cameras trained on you, but behind the cameras, all
these folks writing down and listen to what you have
to say in reporting on what you say. Just wonder
what their reaction was when you didn't talk a daggum
thing about football and you dropped revelations on them and
kind of called everybody out in the room, including yourself,
for not being a church being a football game the

(51:59):
first play that whole I'd love to know a little
bit about that scene. And then I'd like you to
share with everybody the reality of just being a broken
human man that even though he's a bigger NFL star
that people cheer for and see that when you go home,
you take the helmet off, you struggle just like the
rest of us.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:19):
I so that that moment came out of a week.

Speaker 4 (52:23):
It was the opening week of the season, and I
knew that.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
Some type of challenge was gonna come home. I just
didn't know what was gonna happen that week. You know,
anytime you you kind of go through a new word
or you kind of preach a sermon on the subject,
it's gonna come up. And I was in this season
of just understanding like warfare and you know, being able
to shout at the enemy and take authority. And we

(52:51):
had a birthday party that week, and my one of
my daughters was having a birthday party and all the
kids was overplaying and my daughter would epilepsic. Call Faith,
who's already gone through a battle of campcer and came
out the other side fully remission. No issues with that,
but that's better. With her epilepsy, she's in the pool
and she has a seizure. And I noticed that the

(53:12):
seizure is happening. She's kind of conscious, but she's kind
of you know, stamming over her words, and I kind
of take her in the house, I tell my wife,
and it's a bunch of people around, so I'm not
trying to make a scene. So I kind of pulled
my wife to the side and I'm like, I think
she's having a seizure, and my wife like, yeah, she's
having a seizure.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
So we kind of take her in the room, and
the siege just continues.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
It continues on and to the to the point where
we have to call the ambulance and you know, the
paramedics they come and they come inside, and we're trying
of trying to walk them through, like you know, kind
of we've gone through this scenario, but the paramedics are
kind of dragging it out, and we're like, she just
needs to go to the hospital. She needs you know,
she needs to get you know, a certain type of shot,
you know, and so we're kind of going through that.

(53:54):
But this time, you know, everybody the party stopped. Everybody's
kind of realizing, you know, what's going on, because the
paramedics are there and the middle of the party, and
so we leave the party and my wife gets in
the back of the mulance truck and I'm driving behind her,
and I'm scared for my daughter because the caesar has
lasted longer than they're supposed to, and you just never know. Typically,

(54:17):
you know, they're they're pretty safe if you can kind
of you know, make sure that they're not you know,
swallowing the tongue or anything like that. But if they
go a certain amount of time without it breaking, you know,
it's all type of complications that can kind of come
from that. And you know, as I'm riding the car,
just I know what's taking place, and the Lord is like,

(54:38):
you know what you gotta do, and he just starts
to calm my spirit, but I started to outwardly just
you know, cast down the enemy and.

Speaker 4 (54:47):
Call on the power of God into the situation.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
And we get to the hospital and my wife is
telling me that my daughter flatlined twice on the way
over there, and you know.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
She's still not out of it, and they get her medicine.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
They end up breaking the seizure, but she goes right
to sleep, and so at this point, we don't know
how she's going to wake up.

Speaker 4 (55:11):
We don't know if she's going to be good. We don't,
we don't.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
We don't know, like and when when the seizuon was
happening this long, it could have brain damage, it could
call speech delays, it could be all these different things.
And uh, she kind of came out of it at
one point, you know, kind of you know, woke up
a little bit and her words were slurred, but.

Speaker 4 (55:29):
It kind of sounded like she was talking in tongues.
It was a very weird moment.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
And then she went back to sleep, and you know
that night, you know, just have been praying and she
woke up and she just was talking so clear, and
all of her words were like spot on it. I mean,
you know, a child, they.

Speaker 4 (55:50):
They all kind of stutter over their words.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
And you know, I want to say she was maybe
four or five at the time, so you know, they kind.

Speaker 4 (56:00):
Us stutter over their words, you know, kids.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
But she was talking so clear and so sharp, and
you know, I got to get up and go to
practice the next day.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
Actually, gotta get it.

Speaker 3 (56:09):
I gotta go to I got a game the next day,
and so I'm like, I need to get risk, but
I'm worried about my baby.

Speaker 4 (56:16):
And it was like at that moment that I essentially
heard the knock.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
And and that's what I kind of talked to a
revelation that the Lord is at the door and he knocks,
and if we open the door, he'll come in and
down with us, and that getting up to open the
door is an act of faith. And that's what I
was speaking to that, you know, many of us are
praying and God is answering, but we have to get
up and we have to answer the knock. And so
my my answering the door was was speaking out and

(56:47):
praying and being intentional why my heart is aching and
worried and concerned about my daughter while she's flat lining
that I'm calling out to the Lord and faith that
I'm saying, thank you Lord for this moment in faith.
And that answered no, you know of him being there
or him coming into the room, was when I heard

(57:07):
my daughter talking clear like I literally went to sleep.
I'm like, she's good, and she literally came home the
next day and most time after seize your that there's
all these That's what I kind of was talking to
people with kids with epilepsy or have experienced ebolis that
they know that it's not an immediate comeback.

Speaker 4 (57:23):
It's nice.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
Even if everything's good, it takes a little bit of
that engine has the rampus way back up.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
But literally the next day she was back good. She
was back good and was able to be able to
come home. So it was a Friday.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
Was the part of this was Saturday, because the kids
were back over there on Saturday and they were playing again,
and my daughter came home while they were playing, and
she was good, and she was able to go back
outside and play, and it was like twenty four hours
had passed and everything had changed, and man, it just
was this rich that I got a chance to see God.

(58:02):
But as I share that with the press conference, I
knew going into that game on Sunday that was like, Devil,
you messed up. Because I was already gonna praise God,
because I already had like this inter feeling of like
I needed to say something just to give good to God,
just to open the season the right way. But I
was like, you messed up because you gave me something
that I could connect with all people. I wasn't gonna

(58:22):
have to use a reference from the game that only
certain people could identify with. You gave me something that
all humanity could connect with and that thing went viral,
and that's.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
What it was.

Speaker 4 (58:33):
It's just because I'm a human. I'm just a person.
I'm not.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
This you know, really remarkable hero that s itsn't a
different echelon of society and other people.

Speaker 4 (58:46):
I'm a human being, I'm a father, I'm a husband.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Sounds pretty normal.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
Yeah, I mean it's I get the same attacks as
everybody else, and I deal with him and rustle with
with the same emotions that everybody else.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
The only thing that can separate us is our faith.
You know, is like, are you willing to do something
that's not depending on you?

Speaker 3 (59:08):
Because if I'm dependent on me, I'm a broken vessel
and I can do nothing.

Speaker 4 (59:12):
I have no power.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
We'll be right back.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
So when you walk up to the podium after a
football game open the week Sunday, leader of the team,
and all the presses there and they're ready to ask
a questions about the football game, and you say, we'll
talk about football a lot this year, but I ain't
gonna talk any and you read a scripture from Revelations
and tell the room the story that you just told me,

(59:58):
and say to the people covering the NFL we're in
the football game. We're supposed to be in church. So
this is why I'm gonna give you. And he don't
even take any questions. After you tell the story, you
tell what it should mean. Their body, you gone, you vamed.
What were the faces in the room?

Speaker 4 (01:00:14):
Like it was still, But I knew that it connected.

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
I'm a person that speaks from the heart, and so
I can always feel that heart to heart connection, and
that's what I was.

Speaker 4 (01:00:26):
For me. It wasn't an option.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
I mean because I had already made my fowl to
the Lord, you know, prior to the game that if
everything kind of went how he was suggesting that I
was going to kind of come out the other side
and give him glory.

Speaker 4 (01:00:44):
And so that's all that's all that I could do.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
And it was just like when I went to my locker,
my Bible was right there out maybe because I was
using it before the game. I was like, oh, I
gotta take it, I gotta go, And so I just
went up there and read it, and I you know,
it's kind of like going into it. You know, once
the game start, you got to go. And that's that's
how it was, like, podium, let's go, don't even think
about it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
It was such an awesome moment. And when we put
your U when we edit this up and this interview
goes live, Alex, please put a link somehow to that thing.
And if you're listening to us, and you know all
the audience, when when you when we finish up here
soon take the extra five minutes, go that link. It

(01:01:28):
will it will tell you who the man Tomorrio Davis is.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
I want to wrap.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
But the last real question is this, I think very powerfully,
and I think it's a great segue from what you
just said, because you speak from the heart, and that
press conference rus from the heart. You've spoken very powerfully.
After interviewing so many people, I read a lot, you know,
I speak, I got a podcast, so you know, I've

(01:01:58):
heard and seen a lot of metaphors and talked about
UH and I think about language a lot. But this one,
this one was a new one to me and I'm
still actually thinking about it. But you speak very powerfully
about the difference in transparency and vulnerability. Share with us
how you see the difference in transparency and vulnerability, and

(01:02:24):
how you find the courage to be so vulnerable with
your story and why you do that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
Yeah, So transparency and vulnerability is really about power. So
I can share with you what I want to share
with you, and if ultimately I'm in control of the
narrative of how that's used. I'm just being transparent so
I can share something really hard, but I'm not really
giving you tools to hurt me, right, Like I'm sharing

(01:02:57):
with you information that I want you to know. But
like i'm sharing about, you know, my daughter, or I'm
sharing about hardships that or that I've been to jail,
it's all public information. It's already out there, you know.
I'm just sharing that. So I'm being transparent. I'm showing
you kind of behind the shield. But being vulnerable is
giving you information that you could use in turn to

(01:03:19):
hurt me. So I guess I'll give you an example
of what that would look like. Is like, I have
a very charming nature, and I could use that to
be manipula to people, but I don't want to do that.
Like I don't want to charm because I want real connection.
I don't want you to feel like I'm connected with you.

(01:03:41):
I really want to connect with you. Now you know
that now if I'm giving you that piece of information,
that's going to make you more guarded in our conversations.
You're gonna be more alert, You're gonna pay attention, like, oh,
I want to make sure he's not just trying to
charm me. I'm giving you that to hold me accountable.
But you could throw that back in my face. You
could use that to hurt me good, you know, go

(01:04:01):
behind my back and tell people, hey, watch him, he's charming,
he's connoymedy. You could use that now to endanger me.
I gave you something that you could hurt me with.
And what I advise people you need to have a
few people who you're vulnerable with. You don't give everybody
your vulnerability, but you do have to have some people
that you're vulnerable with, people who could use the information

(01:04:23):
to hurt you. And so, like things I've walked through
in life, I have people who've covered me through that journey.
You know, it's not hidden, it's covered like people who
who I'm vulnerable with. And then transparency is where most
people say it's like I'm gonna share something, but at
the end of the day, like you really can't hurt
me with it. I'm not in a vulnerable place, you know,

(01:04:46):
with you that I'm sharing it, I'm still in control.
So it might be I'm uncovering something, but at the
end of the day, I'm still in control of the situation.
What I just gave you, I'm really vulnerable to it.
You could use that to my advantage or not. I'm
trusting that you're gonna use it in an honest and
respectful way. That's the difference saying I think you have
to be willing to get to those vulnerable places for

(01:05:08):
real transformation to happen. You got to be vulnerable with yourself,
and then you have to have people you're vulnerable with
who can help you navigate. Because what I just gave
you vulnerably, now you can hold me accountable. You can
look at me and say, Mario, I think you were
being more charming than being real in that situation, which
would make me because that is a weakness. I've given

(01:05:28):
it to you, especially if that's a strength for you,
I ain't gonna take it and say, you know what,
I'm human, Maybe I am being charming, maybe I'm not
being real. Let me go and deal with myself with that.
And that's what vulnerability allows you to do is really
grow Because now when I go sit with that because
I gave you something where you can help sharpen me
iron Shopping's eyes. So there's one man another I can

(01:05:50):
take it and come out the other side better. But
it was only through that vulnerable, honest conversation versus if
I just gave you stuff and because you didn't know it,
you're like, oh, wow, he's being so real. Really, I'm
not like that information is out there, you know, it's
not making me have to go deal with me.

Speaker 4 (01:06:08):
And that's what we got to be able to do
to get to the.

Speaker 3 (01:06:10):
Wrang, dirty human trauma that exists in all of us
as broken people. We got to be willing to be vulnerable.
And I ain't saying just go out there and put
that out to the world. That's not what I'm saying.
But you have to have a select few individuals that
are you vulnerable with and they're either at your level
above your level where they can call you on your stuff.
Right if you just go be vulnerable with a group

(01:06:31):
that really can't process what you're giving them, that doesn't
help you either. You have to have people who can
call you on your stuff and tell you what's going on,
and when they see something off, they can call you
on it and make you better. And that's what the
difference between vulnerability and transparence. And once I understood that
man that changed my world.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
That is such good advice for anybody in any endeavor,
but especially for disarmy and normal folks trying to inspire.
No work where need is is going to be easy,
and you will not be successful until you have a
good group of compasses and people around you with whom

(01:07:11):
you can be vulnerable, that can hold you accountable to
your goals and help you through the difficulties of achieving
what you're trying to do. And I just when I
read that about what you said, I thought, that's a
really good depth piece for anybody who's trying to work

(01:07:32):
to do anything in our communities. I got a quick
question for all our listeners. Anybody wants to know more
about the Devoted Dreamers Foundation.

Speaker 4 (01:07:41):
How do they find that Devoted Dreamers dot org.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
You can go on it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
You can find us on Instagram, go to our website
to voter Dreams dot org.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
Find us on that.

Speaker 4 (01:07:49):
You can find on my wife or my page.

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
You'll go look at the Devoted Dreamers page on Instagram
find all of our information.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
Man, I gotta believe Grandma's thinking. John, I'm proud of
you when you take stock of where you are now
versus where you started, and you take stock of the

(01:08:17):
honor of representing yourself in the league for so many years,
and then building Bible City classes in college and trying
to mentor and be a leader to not only your
teammates but people in and around New Orleans, and the
work you're doing devote a Dreamers Foundation, and most importantly

(01:08:39):
your work as a father of six and the best
friend of Tamla.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
And you take stock of the fact that your.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
Mother and grandmother and Chuck, Michael Roy and Tamala and
the work they did to support your foundation, and the
pursuit of you to help you grow in your evangelism,
and the love and the grace and the best friend.
When you take stock of all of it, you're still
a young man. What's next?

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
Man?

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
I think about that a lot, and I think, Number one,
I'm so far past anything that I could have asked
or imagine, and I'm grateful for that.

Speaker 4 (01:09:20):
And all that credit and glory goes to God. Just
as man he is who he says he is and.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
Everything that I could have imagined to accomplish when I
first entered into this relationship with the Lord, not just
in terms of accomplishments and achievements, but in terms of
who I've become in the process, so much far past
what I would have asked or imagined. And that's what
the word says he's able to do. And so as

(01:09:49):
I look into kind of like what's next, I know
he's not finished.

Speaker 4 (01:09:53):
I know he has so much more that he wants
to do.

Speaker 3 (01:09:56):
And it's Lord, you didn't bring me this far to
leave me, so wherever you want to go.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
My answer is yes, I can't wait to see it,
and I can't wait to see it a couple of
months and dap you up and call you double D.
I can't do it here, but I can do it
once we get and sit down, look at each other
face to face in the eyes. Come on, Coach and Tomorio, honestly,
thanks for the time, Thanks for covering out time to

(01:10:23):
tell your story and to share with our listeners all
the people along your path greatness, and what you're doing now,
what the future looks like, and tons of pearls of wisdom.
I just want to tell you how much I appreciate
your time.

Speaker 5 (01:10:38):
I appreciate you, brother. It's been a blessed We'll see
you soon, all right, Take care and thank you for
joining us this week. If Tomrio Davis has inspired you
in general or matter yeat, take action by supporting someone
else in their journey as a mentor coach, friend, or

(01:10:59):
even just loving your family better, please let me know.
I'd love to hear about it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
You can write me anytime at Bill at normal folks
dot us. If you enjoyed the episode, share it with
friends that are on social subscribe to this podcast, rate it,
review it, join the army at normal folks dot us.
Any and all of these things will help us grow
an army of normal folks.

Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time, do what you can