Bozoma Saint John on Faith, Hustle Culture Lies & Trusting Your Inner Voice

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're doing this publicly now all opinions.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Everybody has an opinion. Hate.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
I hate it so much, that's so honest. Most people
will be like, I don't care, but I care opinion.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
I care.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
I'm responding. I mean, you know that cat what that's like.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
That's me. Thanks for watching, guys. Today's episode is brought
to you by boost Mobile. Bosima Saint John is a
Hall of Fame inducted marketing executive, author, entrepreneur, general just badass.
In twenty twenty three, she stepped out of the corporate
box and she published her memoir, which we were just

(00:44):
talking about and we'll share in a second. It was
called The Urgent Life. It is called The Urgent Life.
She's now a full time cast member of the Real
Housewives of Beverly Hills. That was not just any of
our and she stars in On Brand with Jimmy Fallon,
which is a marketing competition series on NBC. And she
has many, many, many other things that we're going to
talk about all the things today, but both of the

(01:07):
Saint John is our guest today in real life, and
we met recently for the first time, my god, on
a women's panel.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yes, I was so excited. I was so excited because,
you know what, I'm not from New York, but I
feel like a New Yorker. I lived in New York
for fifteen years, by the way, the longest I've ever
lived in any city.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
And that's how you moved around a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah, I moved around a lot. And I loved hearing
you every day.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Thank you every day. Yeah. Yes, I start to get
like a one way relation show you.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
And so when we met, it felt very familiar because
I feel like I know you.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
What I'm saying. But it's just there's enough of your
public you have a footprint in the world that I
knew you. I knew you somewhat. Yes, so we already
came with some deep.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
But I was already in love.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
And then I'm like, oh my God to talk to
Angie because like you, I mean, you do do great
storytelling and you have great conversation. And so even when
we met at the panel, I was like, oh man,
we could sit up here and talk forever. That's gonna
how We're gonna continue this conversation.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
We got to get off the stake.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Well.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Number one, I will say that you also are an
amazing storyteller and reading your book because you know, you
could have wrote a business book.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
Oh yes, which, by the way, my publishers wanted me
to write that. I was wondering about that. That was
the book they wanted me to write. And also you
could still write, yes, and I probably still.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Won't still will we just maybe we just interviewed that mcgreed,
which I know you did also, which we're going to
get to all exactly. We're going to get to all them.
I'm very curious about how you feel about at her
and things of that.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
I have a lot of thoughts.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
We'll get into that.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, But.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
You know, writing a memoir is a tricky thing, right,
And so I went reading it, I wondered how much
because you know a lot of people they tell their
story and they a partner who's a writer by trade.
But yours felt so intimate, I wondered.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
I was like, wow, she this was a lot of.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Your own voice and words.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yes, yes, yes, but the way that it was written.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Because I've been studying writing for the past few years,
I also wrote a memoir and the women they brought
in to help me because I was insistent on had
I had to write so much. Yeah, she taught me
so much about actual writing and storytelling. And the way
your book reads is it goes past the present, Yes,
past to present, and you've been through so much. That

(03:32):
is just a night. It's a it's a beautiful ride.
I know, it's a lot of pain and things and
then also but it's just a beautifully, beautifully.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Thank you you know.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
So you're right, my publisher. And by the way, tons
of publishers over the years have been like you should
write yes, how to get to the Corner Office in
Heels book which or like you know, still Girl Boss
for Dummies, And I was like, oh my god, well
I don't know about either one of those titles, you
know what I mean. But you know, I really felt
called to write my memoir because as a successful business woman,

(04:07):
people always think that like somehow you had a silver staircase,
you know, and that like nothing bad could have happened
to you in order for you to continue to rise.
And for me, I was like, wait, wait, hold on,
hold on, I've dealt with some shit in my life,
you know, some stuff that brought me down. Yeah, And
I think for me it was like, look, I want

(04:27):
I want you to read my book and not only
know me better, but also appreciate that life. You can
put yourself in these shoes and you can also achieve
regardless of what has happened to you, because like, this.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Shit is heavy.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
Yeah, you also lost and love and survival and thriving
and climbing the staircase and getting things wrong. Like at
one point, my editor was like, yo, votes like you
there's some parts in here where you're.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Not the hero, you know, but you don't look that good.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
And I was like, good, actually, oh my god, well
there are many parts, but you know, I mean, there's
some stuff I regret. You know, It's like when I'm
jumping ahead. But when my husband was terminally diagnosed, we
had been separated for about a year and a half
or so, we hadn't divorced. I wasn't planning on serving

(05:23):
him the paperwork because I was like, let him do it,
you know, let him be the bad guy, you know
what I mean. And I was trying desperately to move on.
I thought, Okay, well, if I have a boyfriend, then
he really gonna get pissed off and then serve me
some divorce papers. And I was like, you know, you
should get a girlfriend too, you know what I mean, Like,
let's just all both move on. And he was refusing, refusing,

(05:44):
And then one day I went to his house and
I saw a pair of women's shoes there, and those
were some ugly ass shoes.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
I knew they weren't mine, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
So I was like, who's this bitch?

Speaker 3 (05:57):
And he had a girlfriend, and I was like, Okay,
I don't know how I feel about this, but all right,
you know this will help move us on. But then
when he was diagnosed, and it was she and I
were getting along, you know, we'd like trade off time
in the hospital, and it just felt very sister wife
and I was actually very comfortable with that until they

(06:19):
said he was going to die. Then then I was like, honey,
you got to get up out of here. Okay, I'm
his wife and these are my vows, and I'm the
one who's going to be here. And in telling that story,
I was definitely I was unfair, yeah, and I wish

(06:40):
I could do it over unfair to unfair to her.
He was he was very happy, I mean, he you know,
went on Facebook and was like, thank you God, I
got my empire back and my kingdom back, you know,
the whole thing, like he was, but I don't think
I was.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
I was being fair. Wasn't being fair to her? And
I regret that.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Did you ever have you ever made that ends or
not talking there?

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Look, I'm not I'm not that much of an angel now, okay,
but you've admitted.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
That before you said this.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
I said it.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
She said she's gotten win.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
I hope she got I hope she got win. But
we don't need to talk. Come on, there's nothing to
do nothing. It's enough for you. It's not for me
to We don't need to be friends.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
And there's so much in your book that you know,
even looking at you now where you are. We talked
about this more in the panel. You took this gig
on Real Housewives, which people were like, are you crazy? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (07:39):
No, they really did.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Are you crazy?

Speaker 4 (07:42):
And what was it?

Speaker 5 (07:43):
What was it that?

Speaker 1 (07:44):
What was it that made you adamant in your decision making?

Speaker 3 (07:48):
You know? It was really it was really so hard
to follow my instinct of my gut on this, and
by the way, I have said adamantly, I've done it
head talk on it. I've talked about my intuition, how
powerful it is. How much I trust it, how I
follow it. I don't take anybody's advice. I don't ask
anybody for their opinions on my life. Like I am

(08:11):
strong in that, but it is also very difficult to
do that, you know, meaning that when people have an
opinion about what you do or who you are, especially
if you respect them. I'm not just talking about the
strangers on the internet. I'm talking about people in my
real life, you know, and not just my mom, but
like you know, my daughter, my friends, my mentors, you know,

(08:33):
people who were successful, who are ahead of me, who
are like, this is a bad idea, you know, and
I'm just like, your voice says yeah, my inner voice
says no, this is this is where you should be going.
But the thing is, it has happened actually quite a
few times in my life where everybody in my life
has advised me against the thing, and I went to

(08:55):
do it anyway, and then it turns out to be successful,
and then they're like, you know what, both you were right,
go ahead, you know. And so it's happening enough times
that I feel drawn to my own will, even in
the face of people doubting it.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
But it has it has not caused it has not
not caused me to have fear.

Speaker 3 (09:17):
The still you know what I mean, I still have
the fear. I still have the doubt. I'm still like,
what if this time they're right?

Speaker 2 (09:23):
Right? What if this time I'm stepping off the ledge
and like I'm gonna fall and hurt myself? And what if?

Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, what if I joined the Housewives And it's the
worst decision ever because I'm going in with the intention
of telling my story from my perspective, adding a corporate
baddy to the roster of women who are rich and
successful and like having the best time ever. I'm like, yo,
I want to represent my people. But what if it's terrible?

(09:50):
What if it make me look awful? What if like
this Hall of Fame career comes crashing down because I
did Reality TV? You know, Just the other day, some
body on threads, Uh, there's a debate going on about
Emma Greed and her book, right, and I'm a defender
of her philosophy, And somebody said it was something I'm

(10:15):
gonna paraphrase, but it was something like, yeah, she's talking
so big, but she still ended up on Reality TV.
They're talking about me, And I was like, is.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
That a dig.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Oh my god, I think it's a dig.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
This song a little bit, because I was just like, wait,
hold on, wait, wait, wait, wait, let's not you know,
let's not trash everything, like you know, that's that's not
beneath me. And I don't believe any of the women
who are participating in any of these shows are beneath
me or beneath us. You know, they don't have a
lower standard. They happened to showcase a certain type of

(10:51):
life and a you know, a certain type of their
personality that sometimes is not always the greatest. But I
do have I feel like there's redemption.

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Speaker 1 (12:01):
But there's also like a new found I would imagine
for you because it's the same thing with Emma. We
had Emma on the pod, and it's like it's one
thing to be a successful business woman and you operate
within the walls. How you do you learn your lessons?
You mentor people privately, or you do ted talk, so
you do things to a world of people who want
that information. It's different when you cross over into a

(12:23):
mainstream platform. Yes, those same opinions don't.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yes, you nail head, Yes, right, yeah, yeah, So I think.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
That's some of the complication that Emma is facing, enormous,
enormous complication.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
And I wonder for you too, which I would like
to talk about what's happening to Emma and the fact
that you're choosing to defend or to support. Yeah, but
have you experienced any of that like shifts and because
now you're a public figure in a.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
Different different way, and you are so right, I think
that's a missing concept and idea. And again, let's to
be honest, I was not aware that there was a difference.
I know, this sounds so like probably naive because you.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
Had never experienced.

Speaker 3 (13:07):
No, I didn't know that, Okay, there was a difference
between being public in a business format and being public
in pop culture, you know, and that the same sort
of respect that I have in the business world may
not carry over. I'd be teaching people again about me
and maybe they wouldn't agree. And that was a shock

(13:28):
because I was like, wait, hold on, but I have
all of these credentials and all of these receipts, and
why would you question that.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
You know?

Speaker 3 (13:34):
Yeah? And then also I think part of the issue
that I am currently having with anyone's sort of like
dismissal of Emmagreed's success and therefore her book and her
advice is that they haven't been there. So how could
you criticize what she's telling you? You know, she's not

(13:56):
coming from a place of theory. I have a lot
of problems with people who teach things based on theory,
you know, like all of these gurus that are out there,
they're trying to tell you how to be successful in business,
but have never occupied a c sweet job.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
I'm literally, what the fuck do you know?

Speaker 1 (14:11):
What are you talk? Showed me you don't have any receipts.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
We have a woman who has not only succeeded in
creating multiple billion dollar businesses, but she is generous enough
to tell your ass how to do it. And then
you want to turn around and be like, nah, I
don't think.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
So now she know what?

Speaker 1 (14:39):
But it's funny because I was looking at some of
the debate and you imposted a clip about this part.
There was like a lot of like a discourse around
her saying working from home it was okay not And
then I saw I saw other people's arguments about why
that is problematic, and I honestly can understand both sides
of the story. And it's because Emma wasn't saying you

(15:00):
should never people should never work from home. She was
just letting, hey, guys, if you want to cut through,
here's some of the problems with that, you should be
aware aware of.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
So that's her takes. But when it goes on a
clip on these huge platforms and there's a and there's
women sitting home who are like fighting their bosses to
be able to do it from home, because I do
understand both sides of that. So I do think it's
it's like who is your audience and what are you saying?
And having to be more careful about clips and and.

Speaker 6 (15:31):
Explaining you can't you can't control the clips, and but
I do understand how this happened, but I wish people
had a bandwidth to actually understand context and totality.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
She wrote three hundred and fifty pages and you're talking
about a thirty second clip.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
I'm like, y'all, come on, like you got to read
the whole thing.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
Critical thinking guys, you know what I mean, like analysis,
because what she's talking about is complicated.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
She's saying that like, oh, there shouldn't be any flexibility
or that the world is right.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
You know that there's not other reasons why women are
held back at correct.

Speaker 3 (16:07):
I'm not saying that. She's saying, Hey, this is a
truth about the situation. Okay, you want advancement, you need proximity.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
That is not a lie.

Speaker 3 (16:18):
You want to be in the C suite, you can't
do it sitting at home, not close to the CEO. Now,
obviously there are global jobs. There are jobs that require
you to be in a different place from your boss.
Everybody understands that. Then figure out a way to get proximity.
So if you're working from home, don't think that you
just click on the camera for every meeting and then

(16:40):
you go slink back and do whatever you're doing at home.
Right Like, Yes, you're in your spreadsheet, you're in your
documents and your solo and then you only pop up
for the meetings that are required of you. Nosis you
got to do more than that. So if you can't
be there in person, then figure out how to get
close to the boss quickly and in more than just
the showing up on the meetings and have your camera

(17:02):
off too.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
By the way, let me add that in there.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
Because the challenge is that, like, this is the truth
of the environment that we're currently in. Additionally, and this
is again the part of the nuance that is missing.
I'm like, look, we've done our part. Okay, we knocked
down a part of the wall from the women before
us who couldn't have even imagined the successes that we

(17:25):
have right now right like they can't those women could
never have even imagined the things that we've been able
to push forward. So now it's your turn, and we're
giving you the keys so you know how to operate
right now. And then you knocked down the wall. But
people are expecting they're like, not only did we knock
down the old walls, we also knocked down new walls.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
We are I'm like, but because this is what happens,
everything is so like I don't know, box into what
the clip headline is and then people respond to just
to that. But if we are talking nuance and bigger picture,
also understand the other side of that argument. I'd imagine
that you could understand that where you know other people
are that was some of the arguments that I saw

(18:07):
other people are listening. So yes, So when you're arguing
with your boss to be able to work from home,
because that makes sense in whatever the situation that is.
And they're fighting you because for whatever reason, like Emma.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
Said, em said, I get that.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
And now you have a platform that's bigger, and you're
not just talking to women who want to succeed in business.
Now you're talking to everybody. And then so your words
have so much more weight.

Speaker 3 (18:31):
Yeah, but can we say the quiet part out loud? Yes,
your boss believes you should be at the office anyway.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
M hmm. So Emma and I are telling you what
your boss is probably not going to tell you out loud.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
They're gonna yes you okay, but then you you're gonna say,
but then you and Emma saying it, it gives that boss.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
He sticks his chest, He sticks his chest.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Out, was already out. Those are what your girls, Chess
was already out. But you're not seeing it.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
Okay, he's already under the impression that you are not
doing enough being at home. He's already under that impression.
Believe me, your boss is not listening to us two
black women and being like, yes, that's what they said,
people do that.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yes, Okay, there's the thing right, So maybe he's not
and maybe it's not. But the women are now putting
you guys in position, yeah, of being a voice for
which is different than what you guys have had to
do before. Yes, before it was just like uplifted, let
me put you on, let me show you this, bla
blah blah.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
But now you've because of your platforms becoming so large. Yeah,
the voice is more important.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
And so here's the thing is that we could either
right be quiet about it and not tell you the
truth and believe me. Also, I hope Emma doesn't get
mad me for telling you this and saying it out loud.
But I did talk to her about that, you know.
I was like, hey, look, if they don't appreciate it,
shut the fuck up, don't talk. And then we sat

(20:09):
there and looked at each other and we're like, nah,
but we can't do that. It's like because the thing
is that, look, people are gonna be mad at you
when you tell the truth.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
They always are. It happens to every single messenger.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
So and this is like one thing. Yeah it is,
but they do they share, but there and there are.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
So many truths that are hard to say out loud,
you know, there are And also again Another thing that
I should probably not say out loud is that, like.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Look, there are a lot of people who come before us.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
Who didn't say anything, who didn't tell you this, who
didn't tell you the truth about what they're actually thinking,
and then you have to find out the hard.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
Way, you know.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
So yeah, maybe it feels like, hey, look, you're giving
this idea and this platform air because you're also what
they're saying. But my point is that, like I'm actually
not parroting what they're saying. I'm just saying it in
a way that you're gonna hear it because they've been
telling you that you're just not listening.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
What are the other things that they don't tell women?
We need a whole podcast.

Speaker 2 (21:14):
We need a whole podcast for that.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
You know. Let's not even start talk about money and
how to like ask for promotions and get raises, because
it's not just proximity, you know.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Some of it is like our own unwillingness to go
before we are ready.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
You know.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
It's like, look, you know how many times I sat
in my office as a C suite executive and men
who had just started working, white men in particular, who
had just started working in the job like three months
came into my office, so they needed to raise with
no problem, no problem, and they had proof. They'd have
receipts and be like, in the last ninety days, this

(21:50):
is what I've.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Been able to achieve.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
Sometimes they weren't wrong, by the way, but I think
women actually do it better and faster. And then do
you know how many times I would tell like a
woman who was maybe a peer or something to that
guy and been like, you know, homeboy over here by
the way, under threat of hr homeboy came into my
office he said he needed a raise. She'd be like,

(22:13):
I'm like, yeah, girl, he did, and he had proof,
and this proof is right what you got. And she'd
be like, oh man, all right.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
All right, I'm gonna come. I'm gonna come. And then
never came, and I'm like, I can't sit in my
office just be like, Okay, you know she gets a raise.
You know, you gotta do your part. You gotta come too.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
And so there's all kinds of But the problem is
that like if I say that out loud, which I
actually just have, she's gonna say, oh, well, but this
is you know, I need merit based promotions and raises
and it's unfair that Chad over there comes into your
office and after three months tells you he needs a raise,
and then you give him one.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
And I'm sitting here. You can see I'm doing the work.
He he didn't give me the raise. Girl, you gotta
get up and do your part. You gotta do it.
And it's not enough for you to just sit there. Yeah,
why do we do that?

Speaker 1 (23:04):
What is that about? I don't know what I would
what I do I would also like to offer to people,
is that, like, you know, it's okay to say what
that one part of what somebody said doesn't work for me? Yeah,
and not dismissed their whole things, like you don't you
don't have to throw somebody away. That's because maybe the

(23:26):
one thing they said you kind of I don't love that.
I think that should have been said to whatever are
you feeling is on whatever?

Speaker 3 (23:33):
Like yeah, pretty example of that. We love Steve Harvey. Okay, okay,
let me just start there. Oh God, I love Steve Harvey.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Love Steve.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
At one point I saw him do a interview or
he made a statement about how like he hustles so
hard he only gets four hours to sleep a night
and if you want to be successful, you can only
you can only sleep four hours because otherwise you're lazy paraphrasing.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
Yeah, And I heard that and I was like, damn,
because I like some sleep. People don't think that, but
I do.

Speaker 3 (24:03):
I sleep my full eight hours, you absolutely, and if
I don't get it, I'm horrible. Okay, so I have
to get it. And I heard that, and I was like, damn, well,
how am I gonna do that? Because I'm not actually
useful with just four hours of sleep. I tried and
she wasn't working. So I went back to my eight hours,
and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna have
to figure out a way to make whatever other four

(24:24):
hours I said, I spent sleeping like I got a
double time on something else, just so I can prove
the fact that, like, yes, I'm working, I'm working hard.
I gotta double the time when I'm actually wait, you know.
And so then I use that as my motivation to
do more in my waking hours because I realized that, oh,
there's other people out there who are four hours ahead
of me because they're only sleeping four hours because they
took Steve Barvey's advice.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
You see what I'm saying, which would have been shit
advice for you, which would have been horrible.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
And by the way, I don't throw the man away.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
I don't discount his successes. He is incredibly successful.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Like what a shame it.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
Would be and still plenty to learn from him.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
I'm like, what a shame it would be if I
I just took that and said, ah, he didn't know
what he's talking about his successes. Oh, the only reason
he got is because he's.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
A man who no, stop no.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
But I'm just saying that, Like I could say that
and I would be wrong. Man, I'd be dead wrong.
My point is you'd be the one thing I'd be
mad about, the one.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
Okay, But that's my point.

Speaker 3 (25:20):
Is it like sometimes you take advice from people who've
done it and you're like, oh, I can apply that,
And then sometimes you take it you're just like, that
actually doesn't fit me. But let me take the knowledge
that's inside of there and apply in a different way.
So my thought was like, oh, shoot, there are people
who are only sleeping four hours. They have four more
hours in the day than I do, So how am

(25:40):
I gonna spend my sixteen hours in a way that's
going to be even more beneficial. So that just made
me hustle more on the sixteen versus being like, oh,
I gotta have twenty.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
To work with. Yeah, we can't do it. Four hours
of sleep is brutal.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
I don't know how people do it.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
Butless there's a whole army of people decided we're going
to sleep four hours.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
I've heard that stuff. We also came we also, like,
I don't know, I was raised in like hustle culture, right,
so everybody then there was I know, there was admiration
for that, and I cried and how much how hard
I hustled it. I didn't sleep and I did this,
and I did this for free at the beginning, and
I did this for this many years. And then at

(26:20):
one point and the second point you get to it's like,
but there's almost so I've switched internally where I don't.
I still work hard, I still try to have, you know,
whatever balance is for me paying attention to it. But
also I feel like there's also it's just culturally it's
not what people want to hear right now.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
But guess what, right, but during those years when that
was the way to do it, if you told somebody
you slept eight hours, they'd.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Be like, you lazy ass idiot, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
So now, yes, of course our health and wellness is
at the top of conversations. Mental health is at the
top of conversations. That when I started out, you know,
and walking up both ways, there wasn't the conversation didn't exist.
And so yeah, you couldn't have said, like, oh, sleep
eight hours a day and you'll still get to the
top of the mountain.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Nobody would have said that.

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r L. I wonder if our way of dealing with
mental health and wellness at the time was like, uh,

(28:25):
just pouring into We were like workaholics. Yeah, so that
was the vice of choice.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yeah, we were worry but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but
that's that's why we Yeah, that's the way we dealt
with it. And that's also how we respected people. You know,
if like you worked like that and didn't have a breakdown, then.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
You were the winner. Yeah right, is that?

Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (28:47):
Yeah? But if you work like that and you had
a breakdown, people are like, a, see shoes, we can
anyway get out of here. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
And do you still work like that?

Speaker 2 (28:55):
No, absolutely do not. I work very hard, but like
I said, I used my sixteen hours very well.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Just give me a little insight like to how you
manage that? How do you sleep eight hours every night? Yeah,
You're still very successful in many, many different ways. You're
on boards of charities, your reality show, television shows.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
Yeah, engage with two weddings coming up. Yeah, it's like
I got a lot going on. But the thing is that,
like I'm also very scheduled. You're very disciplined in my time,
and so I don't get thrown off course very often
because either I'm anticipating X, Y and Z thing Like
I always tell my team, I'm like, hey, look, the

(29:36):
better planned we are, the more successful we are, you know,
because of course there will be things out thrown into
your day. Your child gets sick or you know, an
appointment cancels, or a deal doesn't come through the time
that you thought it would cut and then you're stuck
because you got to readjust the calendar, readjust your priorities.
But I feel like those are exceptions, and so the

(29:56):
better planned I am, the better I'm able to get
things done. So, yeah, I wake up at five thirty
in the morning, I have about an hour to myself
where I'm praying and thinking and writing down things. I
go to the gym at seven am till eight every
day every day seven days awak six Sundays, I take
off my rest like god.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
And then.

Speaker 3 (30:19):
Every day without every day with like my hero. Yeah,
seven am, I wish. I wish to have that type
of girl.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
I'm out here.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
I'm lifted heavy, you know what I mean, get down, frustrations, running,
dual cardio, all the things.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Every day every day eight I'm at home.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
My daughter goes to school at ay thirty, so at
least we have those thirty minutes to just make sure she's.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Good for the day.

Speaker 3 (30:39):
I get ready by ten am. I'm in front of
my camera, or I'm in a meeting or whatever I do.
My meeting is so about five. Then it's time, you know,
to get to the emails and the other things I
gotta do. I turn off at seven, Off off, what happened?
Can't reach me after that? After seven, after seven o'clock,
you can't really, no matter what's going to matter, what's

(31:01):
going on, you can't reach me unless it's like some
sort of like diary emergency.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
The world is burned down. But I've done that for
so many years that people are trained.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
They know that, like, you better get to me before
seven pm whatever time zone I'm on. After that, you
can't reach me, and I'm asleep by nine point thirty.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
Even now with this new level of like, oh career, no,
no public facing.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
Here's the thing, and again, this is why you've got
to add the things in your life that won't allow.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
For those breaks to happen.

Speaker 3 (31:30):
I don't take dinner meetings, Okay, I don't go to dinners,
and so it's like, if you want to meet with
me over meal, it's gonna be breakfast or lunch, preferably lunch,
because my mornings are busy, you.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
And so that's how I So it's like, look, if
you if we need to have like people are like, oh,
let's go to let's go grab a bike, let's go
have dinner, I'm like, yes, I'm available for lunch on
the twenty fourth.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Wow, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
And then that's so never dinner with the girls.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
I rarely do that. No, I didn't get with the
girl because it just rops my sleeping type. Oh got it,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (32:02):
Because I've got to unwind from the day, and so
at seven o'clock I need to start unwinding. Otherwise, how
am I going to be asleep by nine thirty?

Speaker 1 (32:08):
What is the unwinding? Like? What how do you do that?

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Wine?

Speaker 1 (32:11):
Wine on TV?

Speaker 2 (32:13):
Wine and DV and social media?

Speaker 3 (32:15):
And you know, maybe I'll probably make some kids out
with your kids, hang out with my kid. I'll make
some phone calls with some friends. But like the girl
time where you're like sitting and you're chatting and all
that that happens.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
On Sundays, you do it Sunday. Yeah, it's like you know,
we're going to brunch or fascinating.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
Yeah, but I have to be disciplined in that way
because otherwise I won't get done all the things I
need to get done, and I have to focus.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
You could squeeze into dinner at six no, no, because
you're still in work mode because you're only un till
seven times.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, some still work mode. But the thing is that,
like I feel like at this point again, sometimes there
are exceptions.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
But how long have you been living?

Speaker 3 (32:53):
For?

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Years?

Speaker 3 (32:55):
Years?

Speaker 2 (32:55):
Maybe a decade?

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Yeah, probably a decade?

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Does it piss people off? Sometimes we all like date
nights and stuff.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Girl, So here's the thing. I really I do like
date night. But Sunday, Yeah, Sunday.

Speaker 3 (33:15):
And look the thing is like, I am also a homebody,
so I prefer that we do the date at home.
And it probably sounds crazy, but it's like, yeah, let's
see it did. Let's sit on the couch. You know,
we know, we can say whatever we want. We don't
have the waiter come interrupt us.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Like, no, we stay comfied.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
You know, you are not out in these streets.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
I'm really not.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
No.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
And what's what's really crazy is that when I was working,
especially in the entertainment business, as you well know, so
many things happen in those late hours in early mornings, right,
but I just didn't participate. Wow.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
You know.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
So it's like again, you got to train people to
where you are. And in the early part of my
career was really tough because I was in the one
controlling the time. You know. It's like if if I
wanted to go meet with the head of a label
and they were like, come meet meet for dinner at seven,
sometimes you know you just have like, all right, let
me go do that, you know. But eventually I started getting,

(34:10):
you know, the courage to say I can't do seven.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Could we have lunch? And you would not how many
times people be like.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Oh, okay, you had no problem, because people are just
they're saying it per their schedule. But if you suggest
a different time, sometimes they'll be like okay. Or I'd
be like, can I catch you before your first meeting?
Can I come like coffee or like a breakfast or
something like that, And people always will be like sure.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Isn't that interesting? And it reminds me of something else
that I was going to talk to you about, because
I think there's something really big women miss and want
successful women or women who have been successful not just
in business, successful in relationship or finding a good partner.
It's like setting the intention and setting your rules and
kind of not bending that. To me, Yes, there's something

(34:54):
too that You have a story in your book about
meeting your husband for the first time. Oh yeah, and
he tried to ask you for a date. You were like,
you want to go on a date with me? Go
read this book. This is my favorite book. Read it
and you're like, ha ha ha, right, they'll never come back,
they'll never come back. But in that moment, not only
did he do it and then come back, yeah, you
kind of set the tone of what type of gesture
you would expect for a man to be in your life.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
That is correct, right, absolutely absolutely, And so.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Even in that or even the women coming in not
coming into your office asking for money, yeah, they're not
setting the expect they're not reaching what they feel like
they deserve. And it's not just in business, it's like
in your person, in your relationships.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
And yes, I mean, look, I don't remember who said it,
but somebody was just like, you know, you got to
teach people how to treat you. Yes, like that's it
works for everything. It does work in business, and it
works in your personal life too. So yeah, I mean
I think for sure you have to let people meet
you where you are, don't come down to where they are.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
You know.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
So yeah, So whether it's the business meeting that somebody's like, oh,
let's go have dinner and I'm like, no, I prefer
lunch and saying that even though I'm not the one
in charge, you know what I mean, And how many
times they will just agree and then there you go,
Now you have your thing. And so it's like the
business person now they know that, like, oh, Bose only
does lunch, and so they won't ask you to dinner

(36:16):
and that's okay because I want to be outside anyway.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
Or yes, telling my late husband that like, look, I
need you to go read this book if you want
to have a conversation with me, because I don't understand
where you are psychologically and whether or not you're even
smart enough to keep up.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
With me, you know.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
And even now my current fiance, like on our third
day when he asked me out, I was like, oh,
I'm gonna be Angana.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
If you want to go on a day, you have
to come there. And he got on a plane. Okay,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
It's like you gotta put that there. And by the way,
maybe they don't rise to the occasion and you're like, nah,
all right, maybe I'll give up another chance. I'm not
even saying there's anything wrong with that. I'm just saying
they're like, girl, you know, don't change your plans.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah, at least yourself the opportunity to be operating and
have everybody in your orbit operating at a level that
at a level that works for you. Yeah, it works
for you.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
Yeah, you know what I mean, because otherwise it's it's
actually not going to work. And again that is why
I feel like I'm so efficient in my sixteen hours
because I'm operating solely based on what works for me.
And yes, I will make exceptions when it's necessary, but
believe me, they are exceptions.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
It is not the rule.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
No, I believe you.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Oh yeah, no, I totally yeah, exactly, like you know,
so you know, now, let's not go for drinks.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
I am deeply inspired by your discipline. Yeah, I yearned
to have that. I have this one thing I'm working
on myself on right now because yes, I know it's
the difference for me. Yeah, I know, getting up early,
going to the gym, being this something about sleep, yes,
sleep sleep, So I know it's really going to be
a big difference. I just have it all the way shifted.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Do you have an accountability partner?

Speaker 1 (37:56):
No?

Speaker 3 (37:56):
One?

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yeah you want to be it?

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Yeah you have time for that, girl, I will. I'll
put it on my calendar.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
What does that look like?

Speaker 2 (38:06):
Do you have one?

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (38:07):
What my calendar?

Speaker 3 (38:08):
No?

Speaker 1 (38:08):
An accountability partner?

Speaker 2 (38:09):
Oh yeah yeah for me for my life?

Speaker 3 (38:12):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (38:12):
Absolutely? Yeah? What do they do? But a number of things,
like what is the role?

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Maybe that is my problem I've never had. I've never
had exactly.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Well, Okay.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
So now the other trick is you got to have
accountability partners that are actually gonna do the thing that
you want, you know what I mean. You can't just
be one. You can't just be the one for everything,
you know what I mean. So people have certain like
they have talents in certain areas. Right, my accountability partner
for the gym is my trainer.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
Oh will you pay him?

Speaker 3 (38:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (38:39):
But like, but there are people who are able to
get up and just go to the gym without somebody.
I can't do that.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
No, I need somebody who's gonna yell at me or
I know that, like if I'm five minutes late, they're
gonna be pissed and make me run an extra half mile,
you know what I mean. So even though it's like, yes,
I pay my trainer, he is my accountability partner, and
that has to work, Like.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
It doesn't work any other way.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
What you're telling me, you could do that, But there
are some people who like they don't feel like they
need a trainer because they don't want to pay the
extra money and they have discipline enough to get up
and go to the gym and work out themselves. And
I'm like, I don't have that, and so I do
need him as an accountability partner or one of my girlfriends.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
She Oh my gosh, she's the she is wonderful at
self care.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
You know.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
She's the one who's like, hey, somebody we know or not.
I know, I don't think you no, no, no, But
she's great at self care, like meaning that she is
going to, you know, do the the meditation, meditation and
some massages that aren't just like you know, like flighty,
but it's like the tissue.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
You know.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
She's the one who's gonna call me on Sunday, you know,
or maybe on Saturday, I say, hey, look, you need it.
Did you schedule like deep body work because you need
that that acupuncture?

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Did you get it done?

Speaker 1 (39:53):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (39:54):
Because I need somebody like that, even though it's on
my calendar. I'm gonna need somebody to tell me that
I've got to do it, you know.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
So there's just that's good different people. Are you that
for anybody? Oh? Yeah, a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Oh yes, yes, you know what.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
My my big my big trick, my big talent is budgeting.
I'm really really good at that, like money. Yeah, And
so I have quite a few friends that I've made
budgets for.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
And we we share. We share it in my.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Life because I need a budget and I need all
I need a wellness ability partner.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
It can be both, no, but for real, like, I
will create the budget, and you know, it's like, girl,
you gotta be honest though I'm dealing with you, know
what I mean.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
You gotta tell me.

Speaker 3 (40:36):
It's like, hey, look, no, you don't want to say
how much you spent on shopping, but you got to
tell me. You don't want to tell me how much
you spent on your looker, but you got to tell me.
And you know, then I work it out and then
we share the sheet and I can see what you're doing.
You're a really good friend to your friends, are I am?

Speaker 2 (40:50):
Yeah? I love my friends. Yeah yeah, longtime friends too.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
I was gonna say, you must have chosen.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
Well, Oh my gosh, I have. I have so many
friends that I've known for decades.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Mm hm.

Speaker 3 (41:01):
You know that I still hold very very close. It's
such a it's really such a blessing. But then they
all fight because they everybody thinks they're my best friend.
And I'm like, but there's like twelve of you.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Wait, so where are all twelve, So you're going to
do a wedding.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
Oh my god, are you going to ask me that
question about the bridesmaids? Is that what you're gonna say?
It is a current issue that I have. It's a
big problem.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
I was tapping in. I felt that.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Yeah, yeah, you could feel it. It's a big problem
because there's so many want to be the are you
kidding me? They have they have a group chat called
the Actual Besties that they put me in because they
get pissed off when I call somebody else a bestie.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
That's funny.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Yeah, And so they all expect to be in the
wedding party. And I'm like, oh, so wait.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
This is first of all, your ability to not have
like love trauma. Oh I'm sure you have so, but
it hasn't It hasn't stifled you. It hasn't stopped you
or paralyzed you from trying it again.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
You mean like romantic love? Yeah, oh yeah, no, No,
it's terrible. I've had to have a lot of therapy. Yeah,
a lot of therapy.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
So if you haven't read her book, which you guys should,
she had a lost young in life at twenty one,
a boyfriend who took his own life. Yeah, and you're
still storytelling around that was, oh who's you know? And
I felt that Yeah, but you you even to the
loss of that moment, Ben right, Yeah, Ben, you still

(42:31):
went and you still got married to and then the
marriage was you were separated, so that wasn't working. Then
if that wasn't enough, then you lost your husband. Yeah,
and then you still Yeah, get back on the horse.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
I know. Well, some of it is uh being a
deep romantic m hm. You know, really, I really do
believe in love. I love love, but also a lot
of therapy.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Yeah. But also is it scary?

Speaker 3 (43:00):
Oh, It's very scary. It's very scary because I'm like,
anything could happen.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:05):
Yo, It's like I've said it a million times. I'll
say it again now, I don't want to be in
the front row of the of a church for funeral ever.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Again.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
I've talked to God about it quite a bit, you
know that, I just I just don't. I don't want
to be in that pew. And and then gosh, I'm
talking about this out loud, but I do hear God
very clearly. And his response to me was like, so
do you want to die first?

Speaker 2 (43:33):
And I was like, well, no, I didn't say that,
like you want to go down. I still got things
to do, you know, But like, it's just it sucks.
It is the worst. It is awful, and at the
same time, I don't I don't want to spend my
life without love.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
Mhmm.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
It's such a So you do it with the fear.
You just do it with it with the fear. Do
with the fear and hopefully some of the lessons. You know,
I know one thing for sure, given what I dealt
with with my husband in our separation, that I won't
make those mistakes again. You know, I won't take the
relationship for granted. You know that I will fight for

(44:16):
it in ways I didn't fight for my first marriage.
And that's what makes me feel like, Okay, let me
do it again, let me.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Get back on the horse.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
See.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
But how does that show up? Because I'm sure you're
not the only woman who's dealt with loss and grief.
I mean, you know people deal with that old time
widows who are don't even know how to get back
on the horses, can't even imagine getting back.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
Or people who like are divorced and they were cheated
on or betrayal in some other way.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Like how do you trust somebody again?

Speaker 1 (44:42):
You know?

Speaker 3 (44:43):
And I actually do think that it's all seated from
the same place is trust, you know, because I have
to trust that this man won't die on me, not
because of his own doing, but just trust in general right,
trust of God, trusted the universe, trust.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
Of medical care. And then there's some people who have
to trust that this person won't cheat on you.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
You know.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
It's like, look, I've had a boyfriend who had a
baby on me, So there's that I it's not a
shit happens.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
Shit happens Jesus, you know. But the thing is that,
like I feel like all of that lack of trust
is what then creates the bitterness and then draws up
the walls. And so I have to also be very
self aware when I start to say things or behave
in a way that is showing up because I don't
trust you.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
So what do you say to a woman who's having
a hard time getting back on the horse.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Oh, God, first of all, get some therapy. Okay, you
need professional help.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
You know.

Speaker 3 (45:42):
We'd like to talk about healing and go heal sis
and all that. And you think it's just a massage.
It's not, you know, it's deep rooted work. Get a
really great.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
Therapist, you know.

Speaker 3 (45:51):
And by the way, it's not like it needs to
cost a lot of money. Just get somebody who gets
you and talk to them. It could even be your
pastor you know. But just get some additional help so
that you can work out the issues that you have,
because otherwise there is no starting. There's there's no getting
on the horse unless you truly have healed from the
things or have the tools to be able to heal.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
And then, I mean the other thing. It sounds easy
to say, but it's like you gotta you gotta trust.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
You know.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
That's the thing that I'm working on, which is that
is that going It's going better. It is going better,
you know. And that's why I can also move forward
and enjoy because otherwise I would be really terrified about
the next steps in committing to somebody again in such
a public ways.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
I know, this is you're doing this public late now,
all opinions.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
Everybody has an opinion.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
That I hate it so much, that's so honest. Most
people be like, I don't care, but I care.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
I care. I'm responding. I mean, you know that cat
what that's like, that's me.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
The comments because it gets to my nerves so much
like you don't know us, you don't know him, red
flags what you know?

Speaker 2 (47:14):
So yeah, I gotta respond, but.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
You don't let it because you know, sometimes you could
read something a red flag and somebody put suppose, oh
there's a red.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Flag of this.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
Sometimes outside could start to see something because yeah, yeah,
well you know how I deal with that is that
I just talk about it.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
I'm really getting out.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
About it, yeaheah.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
So actually, funny enough, I was talking to Achille about
that last night. Somebody had comments or something.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
I was like, and I was gonna say blah blah
blah blah.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
Blah, and he was like, please please don't. He's like,
let it, let it just be, Let it ride. You
don't know, like we don't know what's going on in
their life.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Let it let it just be. You know, we know
that's not true. And I'm like, oh, but still they
shouldn't say that kind of stuff. You're not just be pissed.
But it does help to be able to talk about it.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
You know. I think for me what works is not
holding things inside. Yeah, Oh, that's letting it stoop. And
while you might think like, oh, let me not yeah,
let me not go to my partner about that, let
me not go to my kid about that, let me
not go to my friend about that, It's like, no.

Speaker 2 (48:20):
No, no, I'm gonna just go.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
I'm gonna go to all of them.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
I'm gonna go to all of them all of that.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
So they said, and that's how I feel, and that's
how I feel about it. I'm pissed about it because
I don't think it's true, but like, what do you
think about it? You know, and then let's talk it.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Out and then you get it out, and then I
get it out, and then that way, I'm not holding
onto it.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
It's so good.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yeah, I definitely don't want to hold onto anything.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
You have that relationship with your daughter too. As a mother,
you mother that way as well.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
I'm mother that way for sure.

Speaker 3 (48:47):
But that also came out of the grief of losing
her dad, you know, like I And again, I've been
honest about this before, so now I'm saying anything out
of turn.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
But I was not the one who wants to start
a family, m you know, Peter wanted the family.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
Then I was just like, oh, and then you just
die and leave me here like you were supposed to
be over here help me to raise this person. And
she was four when he died, you know. And so
now I'm looking at this child and I'm like, oh, shoot,
like I've still got high ambitions, you know, still i
still want to achieve in my career, but now I

(49:23):
have the pressure of like, oh god, now people are
looking at me because I'm supposed to be this mom
who bakes cookies and takes it to the PTA meeting.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
I don't even like cookies like that, you know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
And I don't and I don't like to watch the
kids movies, and I don't like Disneyland.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Probably sound like a horrible person.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
And that's how like my relationship with my daughter, I
think became so forged, yo, because I was honest with
her about a lot of things at four, which I
know that people were like, oh, you know, you can't
tell the kids all the truth, and real really great
friend Melissa Robinson who was the one who said, you know,

(50:03):
you should just tell the truth.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
I've always telling the truth.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
And also respecting her enough to hear the things that
she wants to do that are important to her and
honoring that right, but also being like, hey, look, we've
got to have some balance here, you know what I mean,
because it's not like every day you say something and
then mommy drops everything and then does that like it
has to be really important, like if you want me

(50:27):
at this basketball game, let's put on the calendar. Okay,
And that was at four. Yeah, I was like, you,
you know, you need me to come to this meeting
or this play or recital or whatever. Let's put it down.
What's the date? Show me where your coach or the
teacher said, you know, what was the date, So let's

(50:47):
look at that and then let's put and so she
could she would see that like I was intentional with
putting her important things on my calendar and nothing would
stop me from coming to the thing.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
But it wasn't every day, you know.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
So yeah, I missed a lot of games, I missed
a lot of recitals, Like I was traveling around ambitious,
trying to get to the next level of my career.
But if you asked her today, like was your mom present,
She'd be like, oh yeah, because I was there for
all the stuff that she needed and that she wanted,
and so for me it's like we can have every
kind of conversation now because we've had a decade of that.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
That's so good. Yeah, and you're super and she's what sixteen,
she's sixteen. Yeah, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
Yeah, how she dealing with this newfound reality and oh
my gosh.

Speaker 3 (51:31):
Well, I told you I don't take anybody's opinions about
what I do but lay else. Yeah, And so I
wasn't necessarily asking her permission, but I was informing her
to see how she'd feel about it, and also saying like,
I'll give you a choice if you want to participate,
you know, because I couldn't say like, hey, look you
can have me, but you can't have my kid, you know,

(51:52):
like I'll talk about all this other stuff, but that
that is the fourth rail camp.

Speaker 1 (51:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
So she was very excited though, which surprised me because
we are very different in personality. Like she's not a showman,
you know, she does not the one who's like, you know,
wants to be in the mix and conversations.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
She's very thoughtful and quiet and.

Speaker 3 (52:12):
We'll say the things that she says and mean it,
you know what I mean. From so, but I've been
I've been shocked by how.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Open.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
But she's been because we've had a lot of very
serious conversations on the show. We talked about IVF, you know,
we talked about obviously kihly and getting married again, like,
and she's has some very very deep thoughts that I
was like, who but the camera's still rolling, you know
what I mean? Yeah, and you know, just being like, hey,

(52:43):
you okay with saying that out loud and she's like, yes,
I'm fine.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Because you're her mother.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
He's like, you'll say that thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
So she's just taking to another level.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
She's saying the level all the things.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
You know.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
But it's been very because I feel like we can
have those serious conversations and the reason why it comes
across authentically is because that's that's how we talk to
each other normally.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
You are low key kind of built to do this.
I think it's such a great it kind of makes sense.
All right. We have a couple of segments we gotta do.
I just gave me a little time check out. I
feel like we just started. I know, hey guys, you
ever sign up for a phone plan thinking wow, what
a great price, and then a few months later it's
like surprise, your bill is higher.

Speaker 4 (53:25):
We hate that.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
With Boost Mobile, you pay twenty five dollars a month forever.
That's unlimited talk, text and data starting at just twenty
five dollars a month. There's no price hikes, there's no contract,
and this is forever. Plus. Boost Mobile is now a
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do is visit boostmobile dot com or head to your

(53:48):
local Boots store today and get unlimited talk, text and
data for twenty five dollars a month forever. Five G
speed is not available in all areas. After thirty gigabytes,
customers may experience lower speeds. Customers will pay twenty five
dollars a month as long as they remain active on
the Boost Unlimited plan. Okay, IR segments. Ready, we got
a bowl, We got a voice note for you. These

(54:09):
are we got things this segment segment. Time are we doing?
Voice note? First?

Speaker 2 (54:14):
This is our voice note. Voice note.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
It's usually a fan or listener of the pod. We
write who's coming by, and they send you a note.
They send you a voice note. It's usually a question
of comment. Sometimes it's a I don't know a story
or something or thank you. I don't know what this is.
What do we got.

Speaker 5 (54:32):
Hobbo's My name is Stephen, and I would love some
help here. My wife, she's an absolute beast at work
and I am always telling her to kind of put
her wins and her accomplishments out on social media. But
she like suffers from imposter syndrome. She feels like not
only does she not really belong, but she also doesn't
want to like brag in people's faces. But also at

(54:54):
the end of the day, like I feel like she's
missing out on a lot that what could be coming
to her if she was louder about herself. Uh So,
if you have any advice on good words of encouragement
or even more like strategical points here, that would be
super helpful.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Thank you. Yes nice.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
First of all, first, come on, now, okay, Now, that's
a good husband. The fact that he's a good man,
The fact that his question is for his wife, for
his wife, his girlfriend wife wife. We don't know if
her name is Savannah, but Savannah.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
A good man, Savannah. No, for real, he's great.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Yes, he's being so thoughtful about what's good for you
in your future.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
Yes, yeah, okay, now here's the answer. For Savannah. We're
just gonna call her Savannah.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
You know her name.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
He's so funny.

Speaker 3 (55:37):
The thing is, uh, there's two very very big points.
First is about bragging, right. We we very much misinterpret
what is just your credits with bragging because you shouldn't
talk about the stuff that you didn't do, you know.

(55:58):
And that's what we rail against when somebody's telling us
about their accomplishments and it just seems so large because
usually it's like, you didn't do all that, you know,
and we can tell, so it's like you're talking about
the specific things that you did within the larger win.
And that's what actually helps with your not only your credibility,
but the brand, so that people know that, like, ah,

(56:18):
Savannah did this, she's good at that.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
You know.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
It's like even for me, I'm not great at everything,
but I'm.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
Exceptional at these few things and that's what I take
credit for, and that's what I talk about, so that
people know that, like, oh, if you want both to
do X, Y and Z, she could do that. Nobody's
gonna call me to be the data queen. I'm not
that person, you know, you want me to talk to
you about why TUPACA is important. Fantastic, I got you, Yo.
You want me to tell you why the NFL is

(56:47):
important to this moment in time in sports. I will
tell you that, yo, Like I understand pop culture and
can tell you all the things you need to do.
And by the way, I backed it up with experiences
and with programs that I've created, and so that's what
Savannah needs to do. It's like you're just talking about
the things that you're good at, and so talking about
it publicly just takes it to the next level because

(57:07):
you're actually talking about the specific role that you played
in X, Y and Z thing, and that is important
to do. Next the impositive syndrome thing. That's really gets
on my nerves because I have used this example before
about physics, right that matter is anything. It can be liquid,

(57:27):
it can be something solid. But matter is made up
of molecules and each molecule is really important. And so
you take a molecule out of a matter and the
matter changes. You add a molecule into the matter and
the matter changes. That is physics, it's science. You are
the molecule inside every matter. So whether that is a company,

(57:48):
it's the school, it's your softball team. You are the molecule,
and so why would you not consider that you are
important in the room. You leave that room and it
changes because you're.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Not in there.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
And so therefore all of the experiences you have, all
of the history, the knowledge, et cetera, is important to
change in the room. Why else are you there? And
something brought you there? And then let's go to the
math of it. All right, if you go back twelve generations,
there's like twelve thousand people that it took to create
you individual to be in this room. How how dare

(58:23):
you walk in there with the four thousand? They're really
important and they contributed to you being in the room.
So sis Savannah, girl, listen, girl, you are the molecule
and you change the matter every room that you're in.
So don't have imposter syndrome. You belong in the room.
Those four thousand people work so you could be there,

(58:45):
so act like it. Hell yeah, good job, Steven.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
Yay Steven. Hey guys.

Speaker 4 (58:53):
Support for this podcast is brought to you by Walden University.
Have you ever thought to.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Yourself, what if I could go after what I actually
want and I could really make a difference. Well, you
are not alone, and this is exactly why I want
to tell you about Walden University.

Speaker 4 (59:07):
For over fifty years, Walden has helped working adults like
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And you can make a difference where it matters most.
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Head to WALDENU dot edu and take that first step.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
Walden University set a course for change, certified to operate
by SHIV. All right, now, this is our irl bowl.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
Okay, real life bowl Okay, filled.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
With questions Okay, and I just think one.

Speaker 3 (59:37):
Yeah, what is your biggest challenge in this life? Oh
my goodness, what is the biggest challenge in this life
for you?

Speaker 1 (59:45):
Everybody's just different. I think everybody's walk is different.

Speaker 3 (59:49):
You know, what is the biggest challenge? What is your
biggest my biggest challenge? What is my biggest challenge?

Speaker 2 (59:58):
That's a very very hard question.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
It is let me think what mine is whenever somebody
can't whenever a hard question, like shit.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Can I answer that?

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
If it was in the bowl?

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Because the thing is that, like, look, I.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
I don't have a problem with time because I really
enjoyed my time and I'm not scared of like how
much time I have really no, like I used to
be scared a lot of like death. And you know,
as I said, I told God, I don't want to
go anytime soon. But the way that I combat that
is that i want every day to be really really large,

(01:00:33):
you know, not that like I'm climbing everest or anything
like that, but meaning that like I'm doing exactly what
I want to do, like every.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Day urgently, urgently, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Like nobody's going to stop me from doing the thing
I want to do.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
And in that way, I feel like I will come
to the end of my life regardless of when it is,
and people will be like, god, damn, that girl.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Lived you on.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
They're going to be like she had a big life
because I lived it exactly how I want to. I'm
not putting anything off. I'm not like, oh, retirement and
then I'll do X, Y and Z thing I'm gonna
do right now because I don't know if I'm gonna
get there, so why not do it. So it's not
like a fear of death. It's a motivator for me.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
I don't know. I don't know about the challenge one.
That was a great question.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
I mean, that was a great answer. It doesn't have
to be Okay, there's no rules, fantastic because I don't
like rules. No way, there's no rules. You talked about
your connection to God and hearing his voice. Yeah, what
does that sound like? And what do you ask for most?
What do you pray for most sections?

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
I pray for discernment all of the time. I just
want to know, like, give me the vibes, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Whether it's people or an opportunity or whatever, even over email,
give me the vibes, like, Lord, just let me know
this person not for you. And I don't care if
the person has introduced me to me by Oprah. I'm like,
I don't want that person.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
I don't like him. The vibes is not right, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
So is that how your prayer goes? Like you say,
give me the vibes, You don't say the.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
No I do.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
Oh my God, Me and God are homies, man, Yeah, no, no, no, no, no,
I don't think God give me the vibe.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
Oh yeah, yeah no. And that's the other thing. I
don't know why people don't talk to God. Just normal.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
You know, why do you have to like to do
all the thing it's to do with worship? No to
do it?

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
No, God, God knows us.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
You can talk normal.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
I talk normal, and I also get upset when something
doesn't think that way.

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
Close eyes oh do you?

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
You don't not really eyes open, yeah, talking you know.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
I mean I probably like if you had a camera
there probably look nothing. But you know, but I'm usually talking.
Like That's what I'm doing in that hour in the morning.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
I'm talking.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
I'm talking, I'm writing things down. I'm like, oh God,
you know what I forgot to ask you? Could you
get this person out of my life? Like no, I
do that all the time, or like you know, We'll
be in the car on the way here, I'd be like,
oh God, you know, I forgot to say that I
need more money for this wedding, so can I have
another brand because I need one that's gonna pay for

(01:03:02):
this thing?

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
And you're just eyes open.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
Whoever's talking in front of people, yeah, yeah, because people
just think that I'm saying like oh God, like you
would say, oh God.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
But I'm actually being I'm being legit, like you're actually actually.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Talking to God, God is always around.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
If people think you're being like not literal, like you, yeah,
I know, but I'm being literal.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
I'm actually talking to God in that moment.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
Do you talk to Him all the time, all of
the time, all day, all day, Well yeah, all day
because I don't see it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
Maybe that's good because it's if you have a routine, listen,
nobody's way is wrong. But if you have a thing
where you have to remove yourself get quiet, whether it's
your knees or however you pray. But if then you're
limited in time, if you're talking to.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
Him all the time, then you don't you don't feel limited.
But I do think it's important for me as the
first thing in the morning, that first upon waking, that
I am in some sort.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
Of communication with God. That's really really important to me.

Speaker 3 (01:03:59):
And a lot of times, I mean, I don't know
if this happens to you, but like I wake up
with things on my mind, you know, and so then
I know immediately I got to go to God, you know,
because whatever's on my mind, like if it's fear or
there's some trepidation or like some big hope, I'm like,
oh God, you gotta make this work you don't, and
then I'll follow with like, but only if you want
it to though, because I don't know what else you got. Okay, yes,

(01:04:21):
because I might be wanting this thing, but if I
shouldn't have it, don't let me have it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
I don't want it, Okay, I'm not asking you. Just
give it to me. To give it to me. Give
it to me because of the best thing.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
We even pray similar.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
That's so funny, harp, do that too.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
I really want this.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
Because I don't want it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
If you don't want it, I don't like.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
If it's gonna mess me up, don't give it to me.
And even if I don't understand that, I trust tru
that part too. Yeah, you got you gotta have trust.
God's not your back for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Yeah that's so good. All right, I have some I
r LS for you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
Okay, what do you want.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
People to learn about you in real life? You can
learn one thing from your life?

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Did I really don't take myself that seriously?

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
Really?

Speaker 5 (01:05:04):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
Like, I really love the fun. I love some fun
in life.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
If you were the leader of the world, the whole world, Yes,
what would be the first thing that you would do?

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Redraw the maps.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
This is the first matter of business.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
I think it just says it's such a disservice, like
the maps.

Speaker 3 (01:05:25):
The maps make us feel like we are beholden to
a certain group of people, and then it keeps out
other people. Like that's why I feel like the problems
with racism and immigration and all these things them from
the maps that were drawn by white men in the
room together. I get rid of all the maps I'm redoing.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
So what would your world look like?

Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
Oh gosh, well, yeah, I just circle them by by
language or something like that, you know what I mean,
Like interest types. Everybody who loves the color ran over there.
If you love greens, over there.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
No redraw the maps.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
That's pretty good. It's a good rule of business. What
should people care less about?

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
Hmmm, well, I mean this is gonna sound so silly,
but they should care less about other people's opinions.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
Like that that affect their life. You know.

Speaker 3 (01:06:14):
Don't make the decision based on what your mom thinks
or your best friend even Yeah, yeah, they have no
idea what's right for you. They're talking usually out of
their fear for your life in real life.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
Last piece of great advice someone has given you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
The last piece of great advice. Oh that's hard because
I really don't take people's advice.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
So okay, that's good. That's your answer. That's your answer. Yeah,
all right? And life and real love in real life?
What what is something you absolutely need and require in
a partner? Oh? Love?

Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
I need affection, like physical touch, you know, I need
to squeeze me, slap my butt as I walk by,
that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
If you had a rule book about love, what would
be like in bold?

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Like, what is your rule?

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
One of your rules?

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
Talk to me nice? Now I'm saying, like, right words
lead to action.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
Yeah, it talks to me nice. Okay. Loving friendships, what's
the best because you have so many best friends?

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
God, don't don't get me in trouble now. No, you
don't have to mess me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
You don't have to name your favorite. You don't have
to name your favorite. But what is what is a
quality that is necessary to have a good friend to
be a good friend?

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
I think.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
Presence, like you know, being present and doesn't need to
be like in person, but like the check in the
you know, it's like, if you see something about me online,
you need to call me and be like gro you
want me to go beat them up. Yes, bitch, go
over there.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
You know what I mean, be.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
Present in my life.

Speaker 1 (01:07:57):
In real life. How important is money to you?

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
Very yeah? I mean people say it's like, you know,
money can't buy you happiness. Really, I beg to diver
give me the money, baby, Yeah, no, what are you
talking about?

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
That's so funny? But you were always kind of happy? No, like, yeah,
but money's made me happy.

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
Yuh.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
Can I get to go wherever I want, do what
I want?

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Money's good, you're into it? Yeah, very much? Give me more.
Matter of fact, what is a.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
Habit that you are proud of?

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
My discipline? What is the habit that you're trying to break?
Oooh some of my spontaneity?

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Really?

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
Why?

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
Yeah? Well because you know what?

Speaker 3 (01:08:40):
Okay, so this is a longer story, but I'll cut
it short, which is that my dad is notoriously spontaneous,
and it's spontaneous in a big way, like meaning like
he would, you know, see another job he wanted and
then move us across the continents, you know that kind
of thing, and or like you know, go buy something
that was expensive that we couldn't afford, you know, the
make my mom very upset then put all of the

(01:09:02):
rest of us in like challenges. I hated that behavior,
but sometimes I find that in myself that like if
I really fixate on something and then I'm like, oh,
by any means, I'm gonna go do that thing. Sometimes
it's worked out, sometimes it has it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
It's probably pushed you though it has it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:18):
Has so that's why you know. I'm like sometimes I'm like,
all right, let me just make sure it's countered with good.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
Sense and what is left to like what is the
I don't know what is left for you to what
mountain are you trying to?

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
Oh? Now see now that that's the key, you know.
I don't make I don't make plans. I don't make
like one of your plans, five year plans. I don't
make any of those. No, no, no, because I just
feel like the world is my oyster and like big
things are coming. I just feel so limited. If I
was like, oh, you know what this is I want
to do in the next ten years, why like a
no big plan, zero plans. No, I don't have a

(01:09:51):
plan for this year, or like people make resolutions and
the things they want to do and the thing I
don't really have that because I just feel like fascinating
the world is. Opportunities are out there and they're just
gonna be mine. So come on, bring it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Oh, this is my favorite question. Look at it's poking
right up it. Ok before you leave, this is my
favorite question. It is my favorite question.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
Okay, let go with this.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
Okay, but before we go out with this, was there
anything on your heart today or anything that you just was.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
So happy to be here with you. I'm so glad
to come I could we could do.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
It, like if we did a podcast together. I feel
like we would have something to talk about everything every day.
Every day we would have something to talk about. It
will be three of us. Oh my God of us. Anyway,
I would love you to come back.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
I would love to. I would love we have a
lot to talk about. Okay, here's your question.

Speaker 4 (01:10:40):
You want me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
I read it? You read it? Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
Last question?

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Oh, if God were to text you right now, what
would God say?

Speaker 3 (01:10:51):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
What God said? Take your time with it, both, take
your time.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
God were to text me right now, hmmm, let it come.
I think God would say it's gonna be all right. Mhm,
It's gonna be all right.

Speaker 3 (01:11:06):
Yeah, simple, yeah, looking that have faith type, you know,
because I'm often talking about things that I know if
I just have faith, it'd be all right. And so
I think God would be like, it'll be all right.
It is chill out, chill out boss. Okay, he would

(01:11:27):
throw a chill out at you. Yeah. Absolutely, God gonna
tell me the chill out like relax, bos relax.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
So it's gonna be all right. And that's what God
would text me. I'm gonna remember that. That's a good one.
I love that for you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
Amazing. Thank you, Yes your boats in real life.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
Hi missus Bose in real life.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
Hey guys, thanks for watching. Make sure you subscribe, like comments,
and check out all of the other episodes we have
on Edge. Martinez I R O Podcast BO

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Host

Angie Martinez

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