July 14, 2025 • 37 mins
Famed director Allen Coulter gives insight to what went on behind the camera.
From shooting iconic fashion through a taxi cab window to complicated sex scenes, this is a fascinating look inside Sex and the City.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte. Hi, everybody, thanks for tuning in this week.
I'm very, very excited because this is our first director
we're having.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
On It is Alan Coulter. He's an amazing director.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
He came on in the second season of Sex and
the City and he directed I believe eight episodes. He
had to me an incredible effect on our overall show.
He changed the visuals, he changed the way that we
kind of interacted within a scene in a group scene.
(00:39):
For me as an actor, he really just gave me
so much confidence and I was so much more at
ease when he was directing. I learned so much from
him and he also the way that we got him
is that he was already directing the Sopranos. He was
on their first season and then he continued on with them.
So he was really just like one of HBO's key directors,
and we were incredibly lucky to get him, and we're
(01:00):
incredibly lucky to talk to him today. He's going to
share with us so many just incredible tidbits of details
and how he created scenes, and it's a joy. So
today technically we are Rewatching for Women in a Funeral,
but he also directed Take Me Out to the Ballgame,
The Awful Truth Freak Show for weddings and a Funeral, What
Comes Around Goes Around one of my all time favorite episodes,
(01:22):
Coco Doodle Doo defining moment, what sex got to do
with it? I mean, wow, wow, love Alan Culder so much.
Enjoy you guys, Alan, Hi, Hi, how are you. I'm good?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I'm good? I'm good.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Thank you so much for coming on. I have wanted
you to come on for many reasons. Number one, I
enjoy you so much, as you know. Number two, what
I have been rewatching because I never I watched like
when the initial show would get delivered to us on
the VHS, but I've never rewatched, so in rewatching, I
have even more and deeper appreciation for your contribution as
(02:04):
a director.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Oh well, thank you. That's so nice for you to say.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It's true. It's true. I can tell an Allen culture.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I mean, for me personally as an actor, I learned
so much from you, which I think you were aware of,
Like you had a big impact on me.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I didn't, but I'm glad to hear it.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Oh you didn't know that. Oh my god, Oh my god.
I mean, I think for a couple of reasons.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I think, number one, something about your southernness makes me
feel at home.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
So there's that.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
And then you had such like like when I watch
an episode that's one of your episodes, I can tell
immediately because of the way the camera moves, because of
certain elements of the visuals. And I think I feel
like I can say this. I don't know if I'm
speaking out of term, but I think all of our
work is more relaxed. There's a relaxation.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Great, that's really lovely to hear. That's what I hope
you know.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
You made us feel comfortable, and I feel like we're
less kind of performative. I mean, I know it's a
comedy and sometimes you need an element of performative, but
it's less and especially for myself, which I'm my own
worst critic. And then one of the best things that
you ever taught me, and I think the rest of
us as well, was to talk fast and walk slow.
(03:21):
That was a big lesson in a show where you.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Walk and talk.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, I bring it up now on the new show
with our new cast members.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
We quote you. And you know the other thing that
we quote sometimes.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
If we're working really late, which is not as much
as in the older days, we say cockrel do you remember?
So you're still with us, Alan, You're still with us
in so many ways.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
That's so great. Well, I actually went back and because
of this, I went back. I had not seen the
show probably since it was released, and went back and
watched it, and I was really pleased, first of all,
just how well the show plays still and of course
it's getting like the Sopranos, it's getting another life, you know,
(04:05):
different ages. And my wife was Kim was watching it
and she was saying, it's it's great. I mean, it's
still plays so that that's really a high compliment to
all of the involved, all of you and Michael, Patrick
and Darren and so on. But it really does. And
I you know, I'm you're talking about YOURNG worst critic.
I'm looking really you couldn't do better. But but but
(04:30):
there were a few things I really liked, and will
say that there were some moments that I thought, and
there's one with you and and uh and and Kyle
just sort of sitting I think it's when you've kind
of finally gotten together and had sex with it, and
it's just I just remember you're sort of sitting against
a wall. Yeah, it's a nice scene and just two
people just talking. And there's one with Sarah Jessica and
(04:53):
and Chris Uh when they're sitting on the bed. It
is after they kind of get they you think they're
gonna get back together. He's got the red wall, right,
and then she just says they're kind of look at
each other and just says, you know, he says, I
like living alone and she's and she said that doesn't
surprise me or something. But there's just a quality that
I was real pleased with. I just thought, absolutely, yeah,
(05:16):
just sitting quietly talking.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So I think those things are amazing. And I also
feel like one of the first episodes that you directed,
there's a scene with Kim with Samantha where she is
with a man who's younger and he's telling her, like,
you know what, you must be forty and she goes
in the bathroom and she looks at herself and then
she comes back up and he's all chained up in
the closet, which is of course a shock, but you
(05:39):
do this cool thing with the camera it's not a
very big bedroom.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
But she walks out and she doesn't know where.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
He is, and she's looking around, and the camera moves
around her just in perfect harmony with her look, you know,
which as an actor is not that easy to do, right,
and it's seamless, and then you both land on the
door at the same time. The camera and her face
like you're behind her.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Is very cool.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
And that's the kind of thing we did more often later.
But I think that's because you brought it, you know,
you introduced that to us.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Well, you know, that's funny. I'm glad you're saying that,
because you know, I was thinking, you know, what happened
for you guys. Probably I don't know how much y'all
knew what was going on, But I was doing the
Sopranos and I was finishing up whatever the season was,
the first season maybe, and uh, and Michael Hill came
to me and he said, we're going to start season
(06:33):
two of Sex and the City and I'd like for
you to come and try to bring some style to
it because I had not. You look like a sitcom,
you know, so true, and so I said, sure, I'd
love to. And I remember, this is my memory of it.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
You guys, what, what are your memories?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yes, But but so when I showed up and everybody
was just like a sponge. Everybody was just like, what
do you want, you know, reaction? Everybody, all of you
four knew that things were not working the way they could.
And so consequently, here comes a new guy you know,
in the door, and everybody was so like eager, and
(07:14):
I did something I just wanted to kind of and
as I the more I directed you or the more
I loosened up too and did more. But I remember,
you know, doing things like and I'm just thinking about this.
There's a scene where I just said, you know, I'm
not going to try to stage this because it was
too complicated. So what I told each of you was
(07:35):
just get to that person for their line. I don't
care where to go, and I'll go with you. And
that's so I just turned you guys loose, and I
think everybody just sparked it because it was kind of
like theater, you know, definitely, and then you know, somebody
would carry the camera over and just just in time
to land on the other person who picked up the
you know, and then took it back. But it was
very had a great quality of just random people talking
(07:57):
and you each found something some reason, and I said,
find a reason to go over to that person at
that point.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah that was hard. I mean I think we really
love to be challenged.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah it was. Yeah, it was fun and exciting and
we got the shots a lot quicker than if we
had to set up on each one of those moments.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yes, so and I just so that was fun for me.
It was just to say, how can I help break
this out of what it was? And I was left alone,
which is another great thing. I mean, I just was like,
I don't think there was anybody on the set. I
mean the writers might have been, but they didn't say
a word.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
They were often upstairs early on, you know, like Darren
would be upstairs and Michael would be upstairs, and if
you needed them they might come down, whereas later on
they would be there, like if it was their script
they would be sitting there, which they are still now
and now you know they're like part you know, they're
very much present.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
But yeah, I do remember that.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I mean I also I remember so many things, but
I remember, of course we worked all night, you know,
very frequently.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
It was a challenge, but we were younger.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I was used to that from The Sopranos.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Got it like eight you know, right, right, right, So
when you went to the Sopranos, just refresh my memory too,
because I don't know. I knew for sure that there
was a group of directors from The Sopranos that HBO
really loved, that they wanted to come to us, And
of course we were thrilled, right.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
We were like, yes, yes, yes, when so you had
been over.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
There on the first season with Sopranos, then you came
to a second that's right.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I started with the college episode when he oh, like.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
The best episode ever. Oh my god, yeah that was.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
And so and then I did David at that point
when he I still remember when it happened because it
was such a life altering moment. He came on the
we were shooting on location, and he came on the
location and walked out to me, like ten in the morning.
He said, I've just seen the dailies. I want you
to stay on. I've got one other episode free, and
I want you to be the producing director and oversee
(09:55):
the other directors. And so I was like okay, and
that and so I came out of that season having
done a couple of episodes, and I think it was
right after that rather than the second season. I'm pretty
sure it was right then that Then I don't I
just don't remember how that how we segued, but I
remember it was done and then I just kind of
(10:15):
almost literally the next day, Oh wow, I felt like
it anyway, I don't know what it really was. I mean,
and then I came in and this the timing was
such that I could come in and work with the
four of you, and that was and I have to say,
the mood was great. I mean, you everybody was in
great spirits and uh and excited and and you know,
(10:36):
I think it was fresh, you know, as far as
the writers, it was sort of a fresh approach with
Jenny and yeah, Michael and you know, and I guess
it was trying to remember the other writer was. I
think maybe Amy.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Was a Yeah, Amy would have been there by that point.
And I think soon Cindy comes Cindy shoepack. Yeah, that's right,
that's like one, you know, we added a woman, like
every couple of months we got a new woman, and
then they were part of the phone there.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I remember that my closest relationship was with Jenny, just
by serendipitous, and and she is pretty hilarious.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I love Jenny. Did you go back and forth between
us and the Sopranos?
Speaker 3 (11:25):
I did for a few seasons. Yes, so I did.
I think I did four episodes at first, because I
actually directed the first four episodes. What happened. I was
hired to do the first two episodes to try to
set the tone, but very quickly they said why don't
you just stay and do the first four, which I did,
But the fourth episode, which was four women at a funeral,
(11:46):
they pushed to air as the fifth episode. It wasn't
the fourth, right, But I directed the first four and then,
and I think, very nicely, the other directors came in
and went, oh, we can do this, And so I
remember into John Coles he said, you know, saying, oh,
so we're we're cutting loose a little bit. I said, yeah,
you know, and and so then I went back to
(12:07):
Sopranos and then somewhere along the line I got free
and I came back for season three right where I
did like The Freak Show, which I really like.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, the Freak Show we've already seen it season two. Yeah,
it's really good. It's so great. Yeah that's right. Season
two yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
But I think you were around season three too.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
I was. I was on three. I did I think
cocka doodle do? What goes around comes around?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Oh a great episode? Oh my god? What are my
all time favorites?
Speaker 3 (12:38):
That's I like that one. I just watched that. That
was one. I felt like. It has also my one
of my favorite shots, which was I mean.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Nothing, no tell us.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Praise is on myself. But I just hapdpen to like it. Well.
First of all, I really loved the scene between Sarah
Jesca and Bridget moynihan and Bridget and Sarah Jeska apologizes
and then Bridget very quietly says, okay, are you through?
And then she proceeds and really lacerates, you know, Carrie,
(13:07):
just quietly. And I remember talking to Bridget because I
got a very nice note from either Bridget or her
manager after that, because I think she had a different
you know, she was going to be really angry and stuff,
and I just said, now you know what, don't do that,
(13:27):
my favorite direction, don't do that, and got her to
really just quietly deliver that really devastating speech and she's
written and I got a very nice note from either,
as I say, either Bridge or or from her manager,
and it was, you know, made me realize that it
really worked for her. But the other thing is right
(13:48):
after that, there's a shot of Sarah Jessica that I
really like, and it's the very last shot, I think,
and God blessed John Melfie. I had been playing a
piece of music when I shot it because I had
this feeling about it, and he went out and got
the music and cost him a fortune. And it's she
just walks toward the camera. She's wearing this New York
Times dress.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
You know, it's oh yes, the door, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
And she's walking toward the camera. And I found a
position on Park Avenue so that I could look through
the car windows to see her. Get this a little
moment where the cars seen through these cars and it's
kind of dreamy and sort of poignant in a weird way.
And it's so much about New York, both because of
Sarah Jessica and her character Carrie, but also also because
(14:37):
the dress says the Times, and you've got the taxis
going through and the traffic and it was just everything
about it. I thought it did what I'd hoped one
of the things I'd hoped to do. And this is
the cliche of all time, but when I came on
to the show, I just felt like New York was
kind of missing. I thought it should really be five characters,
you know, in the city, So I was looking for
(15:00):
ways to show that. Like on cocka Doodle Do. This
is one of those things that only I know. Right now,
you and I presume nobody's listening to.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
No, it's just us.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
But I start that episode with a miniature version of
the largest woman in New York, and I ended with
the largest man because it starts with statue of liberty,
statute about this big and through the show you come
back to it, and at the end of the Empire
State Building, Oh.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
My god, amazing.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I never realized that.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Well, it's one of those things that I think directors
do that just for their own amusement, but I kind
of liked the idea, so.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, I mean, this is the thing.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
I think you're doing it for your own amusement, but
it's adding layer upon layer upon layer because you're putting
so much thought into the shots and how the shots
are moving and the characters and like shooting through the windows.
That was so powerful, But people don't always necessarily think
about it. But that's the joy of direct is that
you're influencing the whole storytelling.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Well, I think you hope that they feel it. Yeah,
rarely recognized it, and that four women in a funeral
one of the things that I did, again, very subtle,
but I put it in there whenever I could. Was
I liked the idea of kind of slightly diaphonous curtains blowing.
There's something about that.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
They I noticed that, Yes, beautiful.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
There's a shot of Sarah at the window and for
whatever reason, I don't know if it.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Was how you had our guys light her.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
But her skin is just so beautiful and she's looking
at the window of smoking, I believe, and the curtains
are blowing in her face, and that was something we
just hadn't had that layer of kind of emotion in
the shots previously.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Well that's great, that's great, Yeah, because I yeah, and
also because it's the atmosphere of the city, and I
think I ended it on curtains. I think the last
image of the season bed with big yes ask them
and goes toward the wind and you see the curtains moving.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yes, it's so fantastic.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And this is the funny thing to me too, is
that people think, or people in our business, I guess,
or I don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Sometimes even on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I think people have said that television isn't so much
the director's medium. People think of it as being the
writer's medium. Right, more so, But if you really think
about our show, where I feel like, obviously the writers
have a huge, huge, huge impact and are very present,
but the directors, those of you who came with a
vision and like, for whatever reason, felt the support to
(17:35):
do what you wanted, which, thank god, right, HBO was
great at that. You know, you really made a change
that lasted whether you were directing or not. You changed
the way that we perceived that we could be.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Well, that's great that. In fact, I just saw a
little piece of like just when I was looking at
these and it was like the opening of a season
four or five and Patrick directed, and uh, and but
I didn't know who directed it. And wow, that's got
great energy just the way he does the shots. It's
this rapid little series of shots that carries you into
(18:10):
the scene. And I thought well, good, because that's what
I would have I would not have done that. I
know what I would have done, but that's the show.
I was trying to say, to plant a flag in
that show and say this is where it can go.
And I just he did a really masterful job of
(18:31):
of saying, Okay, we had this freedom and this this
kind of language. I think that has been established and
and you know, of course my dear friend Timmy yeah,
and uh so he you know, he did the same
thing I said that those directors that have some vision, Yeah,
(18:53):
I feel like we're given this opportunity.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Absolutely, absolutely, and for us, I mean that's why so
great to talk to you too, is that, you know,
I'm so curious about what you guys remember, but also
you know, to look back and really think about, oh,
here's where the show kind of jumped up a level.
You know, Like we were there and we were eager,
as you say, you know, and we were just so
excited that it got picked back up. You know, we
were obviously had some sense that it was unusual. We
(19:21):
never would have jumped that it you know, lived the
life that it has lived, obviously, but we were super excited,
as you know. But you need a vision and a
leader in different perspectives to come in to bring life
to it.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
That's right, That's right. And yeah, that's right. And I
think that, uh, you know, I was. I have to
say those first few seasons were really fun because there
was a spirit to the show. I mean, I I
just I think at a certain point, as with the Sopranos,
I just ceased to be able to I just didn't
have the room on the schedule because then I started
doing other things and and you know, after you've done,
(20:00):
in my case, four seasons and a little bit of
the fifth season on Sopranos, and I think I did.
I think I shot something in season four. I'm fairy
sure I did on Sex and the City. And then
I didn't have the bandwidth, you know, I started doing
pilots and stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Right, But we want that, we want you guys to
succeed and do bigger and better and get paid more
and whatnot.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
That happened. So yeah, but but yeah, it was, and
I was just thinking about it. I will tell you
this though, Actually this is perfect because you have a
part in you have a definite part in an allergy
that I have. And it started on Four Women in funeral,
and what it was was because I didn't have this before.
(20:46):
And then if you remember the scene where you show
up with the lilies, the lilies and we did a
bunch of takes of that, I do remember that instant.
I became wildly allergic to lilies and I can't.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
I never thought i'd have an opportunity to say, hey, but.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I remember that day so well.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Like you know, obviously, we spent many a day on
the set, right, And sometimes I don't remember anything, like
I'll be rewatching, I'll think like I have no idea
what I'm about to do because I don't remember this.
But in some days I remember everything. And I remember
that day really well because I think we're in Harlem
at a graveyard and it was raining and raining and raining,
(21:30):
and it was cold and I was not supposed to
wear a coat, and I was like, I'm a Southern
girl and I like the heat. And I was begging
Pat for a coat, but Pat didn't want to put
a coat on me because she liked the dress and
it was you know, she has her vision, I get it.
But I was just like shivering, you know, and my
feet were soaked. I ruined my Manolo's and those were
(21:52):
the first pair of high shoes that she had got
me in. They had to go to the cobbler and
get like totally redone because I had to climb up
up a hill, like I think, yeah, to hit him maybe.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Or to or after you had to kind of charge
up this end cline.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yeah, it was muddy. It was dick. When you watch it,
you can't really tell.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I mean, you can tell that it had rained, you know,
in the magic of cinema, right, but you can't tell
that it literally we're sitting there waiting for it to
stop raining.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
And I remember the girls.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Came after that to do the actual funeral where the
hat blows off, which is so fun. And I hadn't
really remembered all that, and I remember I turned to
Sarah Jesska and I was like, oh, I'm freezing, and
I roll in my shoes and I just blah blah
blah vented. But I just felt that was one of
those times where I was like, man, it's a challenging job.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Well it was that day, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
It was. It was, It really was.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
But you know, I look at it and I love it.
You know what I mean, like you, I think one
of the things as an actor you feel when it
is like a physical challenge in the environment is that
you're somehow not going to be good. You know, that
it's taking attention away from the actual work or whatever.
But it's fine, it's good, it's great.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
No, it's great. Well, you know, it's watching Cockle Doodle
Doo last night, and and I was watching, and I
watched as you get to the end of that, and
there's the roof party and uh, which was you know,
really it's very sweet scene. You know, it's kind of
(23:26):
all is forgiven by the as they were referred to
in the show, the trainees, and it may not be
appropriate nowadays.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
But right, no, it's definitely not.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
But you know that's what the character's name is, exactly right,
that's the group is referred that way. But what's nice
is it is a very it's a very sweet scene
and everybody seems to be having fun, and you know,
Sarah Jessica gets up and does a little thing when requested,
you know, and and then the camera leaves them and
(23:58):
goes back up to the empire at.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Hinch oh yea yeah, yea, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
The moment but when I was watching it, I found
myself a little bit touched. And the reason was I thought, well,
the scene is sweet, for sure, but it's also just
because I remember that day and I thought, oh, that
was you know, twenty plus years ago. Life was different
than I you know, it was different, the world was different,
(24:22):
and so it was there was something about that just
seeing that scene that entered into the personal where I
was like, oh.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, that was you know, it's true.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
But and then you guys did I don't know who
did this, somebody in the art department, but there's a
scene where you guys go, you're down and soho and
you you're I think you didn't go to a party,
a fraternity party. I think maybe it's just him, and
that might have been just Sarah Jeskin Kim. It's because
(24:54):
when Sarah j it was where Kim's character gets some
I think, gets involved with a young college kid in
Texas supposedly. But I noticed that the dormitory. I mean
I didn't notice this until we were really shooting, and
then I look and see it's called Culter Hall. Who
(25:15):
did this? You know?
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I love it?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
That's adorable.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
We had some fun little inside jokes, didn't we we did.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
It was it was a very sweet deal and being there,
Silver Cup, and I mean, yeah, it was just I mean,
it was a great deal, you know, I mean it
really was.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
It was I'm so happy that you were there. I mean,
it's also that's part of the reason I wanted to
do the podcast.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
There's a couple of reasons.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
One is it does hold up well, as you said
at the beginning, and there's this whole new group of
people who's watching it on Netflix, and it's so exciting.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
And obviously they think some things.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Are crazy, right because it is a different time, and
then some things are a complete you know, current conversation
being had, you know, on social media or whatever. And
then also I just love to get everyone together and
hear everybody's memories because for me, it's incredible, our entire history,
you know, it's been so amazing. And back in the beginning,
(26:09):
you know, we didn't talk about things kind of you know,
like I think we felt like when you would do.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Press, it was more presentational.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
It wasn't necessarily we wouldn't tell so many stories about
behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I don't think people knew so much about production really
in a way, and so.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
It's a way to kind of get everybody like personal
memories and weave them together into a quilt of like
what was it like to actually create the show, you know,
by all the different people.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I mean, that's what I'd like to do. At least
that's my goal.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
That's a great goal. I really thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
It's fun, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Yes, it's fun. I didn't the what is it called
the Sopranos podcast? Yeah, talking Sopranos with Michael imperially.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, love it.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
And it was just the same thing, you know, just
a blast, nothing different, kind of funny memories and stuff
like that.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Okay, so, as I said, this is what you brought up. Also,
it's so beautiful Sarah in the window, and I think
you know because we've had the voice over and then
we used to have the talking to the camera right,
which was like so awkward, and at this point it's going,
I don't know if it's totally gone. It shows up
in weird moments, but didn't show up in this one,
thank god, because we as we know, Sara Jessica did
(27:37):
not really enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
She wants to stand the scene, which totally makes sense.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
But when we began this show, and the curtains are
blowing and she's smoking, and you're hearing her interior thoughts
about the funeral, like it has such a depth, you know,
to it, because I had not remembered this at all.
I had not remembered that the funeral. I hadn't remembered
the way that the funeral tied into her relationship with
Big that she literally thinks, am I really living life?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
What am I doing?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
And that's why she calls him back, which is I
think so relatable in so many ways. You know, life
is passing, people pass away, and you do think like,
oh my god, am I actually living life? Like it's
a real valid question. And I had forgotten that I've
follow in love or whatever, lust whatever, like with the widower,
that though all those things are tied together, which I
(28:24):
think is also kind of one of the things that
the show is starting to do successfully that it didn't
really do first season.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yeah, I think that's I mean, I watched very little
the first season because honestly, it was like, well, this
is not that interesting to me because it had really
didn't have a look to it and it wasn't really
as focused. I mean, it was finding itself.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
In fairness, definitely.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
I mean, if you see the early Simpsons, you go,
it looks nothing like the show now, right, So in fairness,
it takes a while to find a show and define it.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
And I would say that the main thing of how
the first season looks is dark. You can't even see. Yes,
You're like, where are they in the nighttime? It's so interesting,
you know, you're just like, what, well are they there
on the street?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
I mean there's a quaint, like a kind of nostalgic,
you know, quality to it because it's sometimes also we're
in the village and it looks just nothing like the
village looks now, you know what I'm saying, Like it's empty. Yeah,
it's fascinating. Yeah, but that's one of the things that
I noticed in your episode. In this particular episode, and
also freak Show. Freak Show, Cynthia is lit so beautifully
(29:31):
and you're so close on her face and all those
scenes that she's doing about talking dirty, and it's just
so there's something so vulnerable and young about it.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
You know, I don't know how to put it.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
But it's it has a sweetness at the same time
that we're talking about these kind of risque sexual things
and whatever. There's just like a vulnerability of being like
inside these women's lives.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
I agree with you. In fact, Chris, and I was
thinking that I had to saw it last night. I thought,
you know, what's interesting about the show is it's extremely
innocent with all of this sexual you know, focus and
some of it. None of it's graphic, but it's all
you can't miss what's going on. Yeah, it's oddly innocent.
I think.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
There's something sort of sweet about it. It's there's no
it's not really mean spirited at all. And even when
somebody is kind of a dupe or like freak show
those guys, yeah, yeah, they're funny. I mean and we
you may remember that we we lit them like, I mean,
they and Michael Patrick, I'm sure it must have done it.
They bring in this kind of freak in this music
(30:40):
that sounds like a carnival. Yeah, you know that, so
that each one of those is lit to look like
something in a carnival.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
And it's scary, yeah, but sweet and scary. I think
some of that and this is what I love. And
it's a little bit sometimes hard to talk about it.
But I do remember in the first season as actors,
as actresses, we were unsure of the point of view
of the show, right, So, like we knew that we
were these women and that we were going to talk
(31:08):
about sexuality, but when it came to time to do
a sex scene, you know, was it like from the
male perspective? Was it supposed to be titillating or was
it supposed to be realistic, or like, were we going
to make our female viewers uncomfortable? There were questions that
we had as actors because it was so different. You know,
it wasn't like in film. There was a lot of sexuality,
but it was very much from the male gaze in
(31:31):
terms of like titillation and not necessarily realistic and all
those things that we were definitely changing that, but we
didn't really know what we were doing in the beginning.
And what I see now by the time that you're
really establishing your look is that and I think this
is a powerful thing and it's kind of intangible. But
the way that you film someone can be from a
(31:54):
perspective of love, you know, of like interest, like curiosity,
which is how especially the Cynthia in the Freak Show
you're so close to her, but she's so she has
no guard you know, she's so brilliant obviously, but she
has no guard up. Like her face is so open.
(32:16):
But that's something that you can only create on a
set with like a love and a trust that the
actor can feel that way and that we trust the
camera crew and that the director you in this case,
is someone where we know that we're taken care of.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Well, that's yeah, that's good. It's interesting because I do
try to. I mean, I've never worked with a what
do they call it a with the section the person
that they now have.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
It's a Z coordinator.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
I never worked with one, and I hope I never
have two friends.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
You don't need to allan is other people who need that, Okay.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yeah, because I mean I've shot more sex scenes than
probably any of those people will in their lifetime. Yes,
And you know, it was always about finding exactly you know,
just making sure that the actors are you know, having
I would always talk to actors before that. I don't
remember Sexy Seed, but I'm sure it was no different,
and you know, just to say, look, this is what
(33:18):
we're going to do. I wouldn't chase away and just
have a quiet conversation, right, make sure it's no awkwardness
or anybody was uncomfortable. And but I will tell you what.
It's the line that I've said many a time because
I think it's really right. The there's someone once said,
and I don't know who said it, everything is about
(33:40):
sex but sex, And so I kind of follow that guideline.
In other words, when I shoot a sex scene, I'm
always and that was true for Sex and the City
for sure, which is what is this scene really about?
And how can I show that? So in that case,
it was about Cynthia's innocence and her delight, almost like
(34:03):
a child, discovering something that she could do that she didn't.
Never occurred to her that she could do that and
actually embrace it, so to speak. But it was about that,
not about the dirtiness of what she's saying or whatever,
however one perceives that. And you made me think about
you know, and there's comical sex scenes. I mean the
one when Samantha has sex with this college kid and
(34:27):
you know, I sort of treated like a rodeo, you know,
like you you know, he kind of does some of
these things that the guy would write writing a bucking bronco.
You know what they would do, and so you know
that was meant to be comical. A lot of them
are comical, but one of the ones that I'm thinking of.
The point I want to make is that when there
are not a lot of serious sex scenes in that
show generally, but one of them, and when they are,
(34:52):
I'm not interested in the sex. I'm interested in suggesting
what the feeling is of that moment. And at the
end end of I guess I'm trying to remember if
it's oh, yeah, four women in a funeral, it ends
with carry in bed with big camera really just brushes
across them. It doesn't really lingo on that all. Just
(35:15):
it has a very sensual look beautiful, yeah, but there's
nothing it's just you know what's happening. But what the
scene is about is this is a a quiet intimate moment,
really intimate between the two of them, in which the
camera is just simply going on in its sort of
(35:35):
sensual path past them to kind of and the movement
of the cameras meant to kind of emphasize or underscore
maybe the sensuality of the moment as opposed to the
sexuality that there is that there. It's skin on skin
in a very intimate and meaningful way. But it glides
past them and towards the window, where once again you
see the curtains blowing, and it's also kind of going out,
(35:57):
and it's heading towards the New York night where others
are making love.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yes, beautiful, and it's so you know, sir, Jessica is
obviously rightly so very always concerned with any kind of
sexual scene or nudity question or anything.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
And she's not easy to trust.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
And I think that's wonderful, especially because she's bland carry
and that is one of the few scenes where you
really she's very at ease and you get to see skin.
It's not salacious in any way. It's sensual, as you say,
and that's because she trusted you, which is, you know, incredible,
because it adds so much when she does choose to
(36:37):
show something, you know what I'm saying, It has more impact.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
That's great, that's great. I love her. I just was
thinking that one of the things that I really enjoyed
on Freak Show was the thing when she becomes the
freak and I intentionally had her have a cigarette in
her mouth. The whole time.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yes, it's good. It's so funny.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
It's so funny because now no one smokes right, like
you're literally like a serial killer.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
If you smoke now, it takes it.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Out of her mouth and she ends up and had
I said, get up on the bed, standing on the bed.
So she's really not doing anything right at that moment.
She's standing on this guy's bed, break into his private
collection of right, right, and and with this cigarette. So
she looks kind of like a I don't know, like
(37:31):
a I don't I don't even know how to say it,
like she's just some tough.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Broad from Yes, she does. She doesn't look like herself
at all.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
It's true, and that makes it all the better when
he comes back in exactly so Alan, obviously, we have
so much to talk about. We are going to come back.
You guys, hang in there with us. We're going to
talk about for women and a funeral,
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
you a Charlotte. Hi, everybody, thanks for tuning in this week.
I'm very, very excited because this is our first director
we're having.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
On It is Alan Coulter. He's an amazing director.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
He came on in the second season of Sex and
the City and he directed I believe eight episodes. He
had to me an incredible effect on our overall show.
He changed the visuals, he changed the way that we
kind of interacted within a scene in a group scene.
(00:39):
For me as an actor, he really just gave me
so much confidence and I was so much more at
ease when he was directing. I learned so much from
him and he also the way that we got him
is that he was already directing the Sopranos. He was
on their first season and then he continued on with them.
So he was really just like one of HBO's key directors,
and we were incredibly lucky to get him, and we're
(01:00):
incredibly lucky to talk to him today. He's going to
share with us so many just incredible tidbits of details
and how he created scenes, and it's a joy. So
today technically we are Rewatching for Women in a Funeral,
but he also directed Take Me Out to the Ballgame,
The Awful Truth Freak Show for weddings and a Funeral, What
Comes Around Goes Around one of my all time favorite episodes,
(01:22):
Coco Doodle Doo defining moment, what sex got to do
with it? I mean, wow, wow, love Alan Culder so much.
Enjoy you guys, Alan, Hi, Hi, how are you. I'm good?
Speaker 2 (01:37):
How are you?
Speaker 3 (01:38):
I'm good? I'm good.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Thank you so much for coming on. I have wanted
you to come on for many reasons. Number one, I
enjoy you so much, as you know. Number two, what
I have been rewatching because I never I watched like
when the initial show would get delivered to us on
the VHS, but I've never rewatched, so in rewatching, I
have even more and deeper appreciation for your contribution as
(02:04):
a director.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Oh well, thank you. That's so nice for you to say.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
It's true. It's true. I can tell an Allen culture.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
I mean, for me personally as an actor, I learned
so much from you, which I think you were aware of,
Like you had a big impact on me.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I didn't, but I'm glad to hear it.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Oh you didn't know that. Oh my god, Oh my god.
I mean, I think for a couple of reasons.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I think, number one, something about your southernness makes me
feel at home.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
So there's that.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
And then you had such like like when I watch
an episode that's one of your episodes, I can tell
immediately because of the way the camera moves, because of
certain elements of the visuals. And I think I feel
like I can say this. I don't know if I'm
speaking out of term, but I think all of our
work is more relaxed. There's a relaxation.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Great, that's really lovely to hear. That's what I hope
you know.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
You made us feel comfortable, and I feel like we're
less kind of performative. I mean, I know it's a
comedy and sometimes you need an element of performative, but
it's less and especially for myself, which I'm my own
worst critic. And then one of the best things that
you ever taught me, and I think the rest of
us as well, was to talk fast and walk slow.
(03:21):
That was a big lesson in a show where you.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Walk and talk.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, I bring it up now on the new show
with our new cast members.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
We quote you. And you know the other thing that
we quote sometimes.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
If we're working really late, which is not as much
as in the older days, we say cockrel do you remember?
So you're still with us, Alan, You're still with us
in so many ways.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
That's so great. Well, I actually went back and because
of this, I went back. I had not seen the
show probably since it was released, and went back and
watched it, and I was really pleased, first of all,
just how well the show plays still and of course
it's getting like the Sopranos, it's getting another life, you know,
(04:05):
different ages. And my wife was Kim was watching it
and she was saying, it's it's great. I mean, it's
still plays so that that's really a high compliment to
all of the involved, all of you and Michael, Patrick
and Darren and so on. But it really does. And
I you know, I'm you're talking about YOURNG worst critic.
I'm looking really you couldn't do better. But but but
(04:30):
there were a few things I really liked, and will
say that there were some moments that I thought, and
there's one with you and and uh and and Kyle
just sort of sitting I think it's when you've kind
of finally gotten together and had sex with it, and
it's just I just remember you're sort of sitting against
a wall. Yeah, it's a nice scene and just two
people just talking. And there's one with Sarah Jessica and
(04:53):
and Chris Uh when they're sitting on the bed. It
is after they kind of get they you think they're
gonna get back together. He's got the red wall, right,
and then she just says they're kind of look at
each other and just says, you know, he says, I
like living alone and she's and she said that doesn't
surprise me or something. But there's just a quality that
I was real pleased with. I just thought, absolutely, yeah,
(05:16):
just sitting quietly talking.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So I think those things are amazing. And I also
feel like one of the first episodes that you directed,
there's a scene with Kim with Samantha where she is
with a man who's younger and he's telling her, like,
you know what, you must be forty and she goes
in the bathroom and she looks at herself and then
she comes back up and he's all chained up in
the closet, which is of course a shock, but you
(05:39):
do this cool thing with the camera it's not a
very big bedroom.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
But she walks out and she doesn't know where.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
He is, and she's looking around, and the camera moves
around her just in perfect harmony with her look, you know,
which as an actor is not that easy to do, right,
and it's seamless, and then you both land on the
door at the same time. The camera and her face
like you're behind her.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Is very cool.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
And that's the kind of thing we did more often later.
But I think that's because you brought it, you know,
you introduced that to us.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Well, you know, that's funny. I'm glad you're saying that,
because you know, I was thinking, you know, what happened
for you guys. Probably I don't know how much y'all
knew what was going on, But I was doing the
Sopranos and I was finishing up whatever the season was,
the first season maybe, and uh, and Michael Hill came
to me and he said, we're going to start season
(06:33):
two of Sex and the City and I'd like for
you to come and try to bring some style to
it because I had not. You look like a sitcom,
you know, so true, and so I said, sure, I'd
love to. And I remember, this is my memory of it.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
You guys, what, what are your memories?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yes, But but so when I showed up and everybody
was just like a sponge. Everybody was just like, what
do you want, you know, reaction? Everybody, all of you
four knew that things were not working the way they could.
And so consequently, here comes a new guy you know,
in the door, and everybody was so like eager, and
(07:14):
I did something I just wanted to kind of and
as I the more I directed you or the more
I loosened up too and did more. But I remember,
you know, doing things like and I'm just thinking about this.
There's a scene where I just said, you know, I'm
not going to try to stage this because it was
too complicated. So what I told each of you was
(07:35):
just get to that person for their line. I don't
care where to go, and I'll go with you. And
that's so I just turned you guys loose, and I
think everybody just sparked it because it was kind of
like theater, you know, definitely, and then you know, somebody
would carry the camera over and just just in time
to land on the other person who picked up the
you know, and then took it back. But it was
very had a great quality of just random people talking
(07:57):
and you each found something some reason, and I said,
find a reason to go over to that person at
that point.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah that was hard. I mean I think we really
love to be challenged.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Yeah it was. Yeah, it was fun and exciting and
we got the shots a lot quicker than if we
had to set up on each one of those moments.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yes, so and I just so that was fun for me.
It was just to say, how can I help break
this out of what it was? And I was left alone,
which is another great thing. I mean, I just was like,
I don't think there was anybody on the set. I
mean the writers might have been, but they didn't say
a word.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
They were often upstairs early on, you know, like Darren
would be upstairs and Michael would be upstairs, and if
you needed them they might come down, whereas later on
they would be there, like if it was their script
they would be sitting there, which they are still now
and now you know they're like part you know, they're
very much present.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
But yeah, I do remember that.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I mean I also I remember so many things, but
I remember, of course we worked all night, you know,
very frequently.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
It was a challenge, but we were younger.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I was used to that from The Sopranos.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Got it like eight you know, right, right, right, So
when you went to the Sopranos, just refresh my memory too,
because I don't know. I knew for sure that there
was a group of directors from The Sopranos that HBO
really loved, that they wanted to come to us, And
of course we were thrilled, right.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
We were like, yes, yes, yes, when so you had
been over.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
There on the first season with Sopranos, then you came
to a second that's right.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I started with the college episode when he oh, like.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
The best episode ever. Oh my god, yeah that was.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
And so and then I did David at that point
when he I still remember when it happened because it
was such a life altering moment. He came on the
we were shooting on location, and he came on the
location and walked out to me, like ten in the morning.
He said, I've just seen the dailies. I want you
to stay on. I've got one other episode free, and
I want you to be the producing director and oversee
(09:55):
the other directors. And so I was like okay, and
that and so I came out of that season having
done a couple of episodes, and I think it was
right after that rather than the second season. I'm pretty
sure it was right then that Then I don't I
just don't remember how that how we segued, but I
remember it was done and then I just kind of
(10:15):
almost literally the next day, Oh wow, I felt like
it anyway, I don't know what it really was. I mean,
and then I came in and this the timing was
such that I could come in and work with the
four of you, and that was and I have to say,
the mood was great. I mean, you everybody was in
great spirits and uh and excited and and you know,
(10:36):
I think it was fresh, you know, as far as
the writers, it was sort of a fresh approach with
Jenny and yeah, Michael and you know, and I guess
it was trying to remember the other writer was. I
think maybe Amy.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Was a Yeah, Amy would have been there by that point.
And I think soon Cindy comes Cindy shoepack. Yeah, that's right,
that's like one, you know, we added a woman, like
every couple of months we got a new woman, and
then they were part of the phone there.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
I remember that my closest relationship was with Jenny, just
by serendipitous, and and she is pretty hilarious.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I love Jenny. Did you go back and forth between
us and the Sopranos?
Speaker 3 (11:25):
I did for a few seasons. Yes, so I did.
I think I did four episodes at first, because I
actually directed the first four episodes. What happened. I was
hired to do the first two episodes to try to
set the tone, but very quickly they said why don't
you just stay and do the first four, which I did,
But the fourth episode, which was four women at a funeral,
(11:46):
they pushed to air as the fifth episode. It wasn't
the fourth, right, But I directed the first four and then,
and I think, very nicely, the other directors came in
and went, oh, we can do this, And so I
remember into John Coles he said, you know, saying, oh,
so we're we're cutting loose a little bit. I said, yeah,
you know, and and so then I went back to
(12:07):
Sopranos and then somewhere along the line I got free
and I came back for season three right where I
did like The Freak Show, which I really like.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, the Freak Show we've already seen it season two. Yeah,
it's really good. It's so great. Yeah that's right. Season
two yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
But I think you were around season three too.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
I was. I was on three. I did I think
cocka doodle do? What goes around comes around?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Oh a great episode? Oh my god? What are my
all time favorites?
Speaker 3 (12:38):
That's I like that one. I just watched that. That
was one. I felt like. It has also my one
of my favorite shots, which was I mean.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Nothing, no tell us.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Praise is on myself. But I just hapdpen to like it. Well.
First of all, I really loved the scene between Sarah
Jesca and Bridget moynihan and Bridget and Sarah Jeska apologizes
and then Bridget very quietly says, okay, are you through?
And then she proceeds and really lacerates, you know, Carrie,
(13:07):
just quietly. And I remember talking to Bridget because I
got a very nice note from either Bridget or her
manager after that, because I think she had a different
you know, she was going to be really angry and stuff,
and I just said, now you know what, don't do that,
(13:27):
my favorite direction, don't do that, and got her to
really just quietly deliver that really devastating speech and she's
written and I got a very nice note from either,
as I say, either Bridge or or from her manager,
and it was, you know, made me realize that it
really worked for her. But the other thing is right
(13:48):
after that, there's a shot of Sarah Jessica that I
really like, and it's the very last shot, I think,
and God blessed John Melfie. I had been playing a
piece of music when I shot it because I had
this feeling about it, and he went out and got
the music and cost him a fortune. And it's she
just walks toward the camera. She's wearing this New York
Times dress.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
You know, it's oh yes, the door, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
And she's walking toward the camera. And I found a
position on Park Avenue so that I could look through
the car windows to see her. Get this a little
moment where the cars seen through these cars and it's
kind of dreamy and sort of poignant in a weird way.
And it's so much about New York, both because of
Sarah Jessica and her character Carrie, but also also because
(14:37):
the dress says the Times, and you've got the taxis
going through and the traffic and it was just everything
about it. I thought it did what I'd hoped one
of the things I'd hoped to do. And this is
the cliche of all time, but when I came on
to the show, I just felt like New York was
kind of missing. I thought it should really be five characters,
you know, in the city, So I was looking for
(15:00):
ways to show that. Like on cocka Doodle Do. This
is one of those things that only I know. Right now,
you and I presume nobody's listening to.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
No, it's just us.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
But I start that episode with a miniature version of
the largest woman in New York, and I ended with
the largest man because it starts with statue of liberty,
statute about this big and through the show you come
back to it, and at the end of the Empire
State Building, Oh.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
My god, amazing.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I never realized that.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Well, it's one of those things that I think directors
do that just for their own amusement, but I kind
of liked the idea, so.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, I mean, this is the thing.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
I think you're doing it for your own amusement, but
it's adding layer upon layer upon layer because you're putting
so much thought into the shots and how the shots
are moving and the characters and like shooting through the windows.
That was so powerful, But people don't always necessarily think
about it. But that's the joy of direct is that
you're influencing the whole storytelling.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Well, I think you hope that they feel it. Yeah,
rarely recognized it, and that four women in a funeral
one of the things that I did, again, very subtle,
but I put it in there whenever I could. Was
I liked the idea of kind of slightly diaphonous curtains blowing.
There's something about that.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
They I noticed that, Yes, beautiful.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
There's a shot of Sarah at the window and for
whatever reason, I don't know if it.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Was how you had our guys light her.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
But her skin is just so beautiful and she's looking
at the window of smoking, I believe, and the curtains
are blowing in her face, and that was something we
just hadn't had that layer of kind of emotion in
the shots previously.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Well that's great, that's great, Yeah, because I yeah, and
also because it's the atmosphere of the city, and I
think I ended it on curtains. I think the last
image of the season bed with big yes ask them
and goes toward the wind and you see the curtains moving.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yes, it's so fantastic.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And this is the funny thing to me too, is
that people think, or people in our business, I guess,
or I don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Sometimes even on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
I think people have said that television isn't so much
the director's medium. People think of it as being the
writer's medium. Right, more so, But if you really think
about our show, where I feel like, obviously the writers
have a huge, huge, huge impact and are very present,
but the directors, those of you who came with a
vision and like, for whatever reason, felt the support to
(17:35):
do what you wanted, which, thank god, right, HBO was
great at that. You know, you really made a change
that lasted whether you were directing or not. You changed
the way that we perceived that we could be.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Well, that's great that. In fact, I just saw a
little piece of like just when I was looking at
these and it was like the opening of a season
four or five and Patrick directed, and uh, and but
I didn't know who directed it. And wow, that's got
great energy just the way he does the shots. It's
this rapid little series of shots that carries you into
(18:10):
the scene. And I thought well, good, because that's what
I would have I would not have done that. I
know what I would have done, but that's the show.
I was trying to say, to plant a flag in
that show and say this is where it can go.
And I just he did a really masterful job of
(18:31):
of saying, Okay, we had this freedom and this this
kind of language. I think that has been established and
and you know, of course my dear friend Timmy yeah,
and uh so he you know, he did the same
thing I said that those directors that have some vision, Yeah,
(18:53):
I feel like we're given this opportunity.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Absolutely, absolutely, and for us, I mean that's why so
great to talk to you too, is that, you know,
I'm so curious about what you guys remember, but also
you know, to look back and really think about, oh,
here's where the show kind of jumped up a level.
You know, Like we were there and we were eager,
as you say, you know, and we were just so
excited that it got picked back up. You know, we
were obviously had some sense that it was unusual. We
(19:21):
never would have jumped that it you know, lived the
life that it has lived, obviously, but we were super excited,
as you know. But you need a vision and a
leader in different perspectives to come in to bring life
to it.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
That's right, That's right. And yeah, that's right. And I
think that, uh, you know, I was. I have to
say those first few seasons were really fun because there
was a spirit to the show. I mean, I I
just I think at a certain point, as with the Sopranos,
I just ceased to be able to I just didn't
have the room on the schedule because then I started
doing other things and and you know, after you've done,
(20:00):
in my case, four seasons and a little bit of
the fifth season on Sopranos, and I think I did.
I think I shot something in season four. I'm fairy
sure I did on Sex and the City. And then
I didn't have the bandwidth, you know, I started doing
pilots and stuff.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Right, But we want that, we want you guys to
succeed and do bigger and better and get paid more
and whatnot.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
That happened. So yeah, but but yeah, it was, and
I was just thinking about it. I will tell you
this though, Actually this is perfect because you have a
part in you have a definite part in an allergy
that I have. And it started on Four Women in funeral,
and what it was was because I didn't have this before.
(20:46):
And then if you remember the scene where you show
up with the lilies, the lilies and we did a
bunch of takes of that, I do remember that instant.
I became wildly allergic to lilies and I can't.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
I never thought i'd have an opportunity to say, hey, but.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I remember that day so well.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Like you know, obviously, we spent many a day on
the set, right, And sometimes I don't remember anything, like
I'll be rewatching, I'll think like I have no idea
what I'm about to do because I don't remember this.
But in some days I remember everything. And I remember
that day really well because I think we're in Harlem
at a graveyard and it was raining and raining and raining,
(21:30):
and it was cold and I was not supposed to
wear a coat, and I was like, I'm a Southern
girl and I like the heat. And I was begging
Pat for a coat, but Pat didn't want to put
a coat on me because she liked the dress and
it was you know, she has her vision, I get it.
But I was just like shivering, you know, and my
feet were soaked. I ruined my Manolo's and those were
(21:52):
the first pair of high shoes that she had got
me in. They had to go to the cobbler and
get like totally redone because I had to climb up
up a hill, like I think, yeah, to hit him maybe.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Or to or after you had to kind of charge
up this end cline.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yeah, it was muddy. It was dick. When you watch it,
you can't really tell.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I mean, you can tell that it had rained, you know,
in the magic of cinema, right, but you can't tell
that it literally we're sitting there waiting for it to
stop raining.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
And I remember the girls.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Came after that to do the actual funeral where the
hat blows off, which is so fun. And I hadn't
really remembered all that, and I remember I turned to
Sarah Jesska and I was like, oh, I'm freezing, and
I roll in my shoes and I just blah blah
blah vented. But I just felt that was one of
those times where I was like, man, it's a challenging job.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Well it was that day, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
It was. It was, It really was.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
But you know, I look at it and I love it.
You know what I mean, like you, I think one
of the things as an actor you feel when it
is like a physical challenge in the environment is that
you're somehow not going to be good. You know, that
it's taking attention away from the actual work or whatever.
But it's fine, it's good, it's great.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
No, it's great. Well, you know, it's watching Cockle Doodle
Doo last night, and and I was watching, and I
watched as you get to the end of that, and
there's the roof party and uh, which was you know,
really it's very sweet scene. You know, it's kind of
(23:26):
all is forgiven by the as they were referred to
in the show, the trainees, and it may not be
appropriate nowadays.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
But right, no, it's definitely not.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
But you know that's what the character's name is, exactly right,
that's the group is referred that way. But what's nice
is it is a very it's a very sweet scene
and everybody seems to be having fun, and you know,
Sarah Jessica gets up and does a little thing when requested,
you know, and and then the camera leaves them and
(23:58):
goes back up to the empire at.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Hinch oh yea yeah, yea, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
The moment but when I was watching it, I found
myself a little bit touched. And the reason was I thought, well,
the scene is sweet, for sure, but it's also just
because I remember that day and I thought, oh, that
was you know, twenty plus years ago. Life was different
than I you know, it was different, the world was different,
(24:22):
and so it was there was something about that just
seeing that scene that entered into the personal where I
was like, oh.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, that was you know, it's true.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
But and then you guys did I don't know who
did this, somebody in the art department, but there's a
scene where you guys go, you're down and soho and
you you're I think you didn't go to a party,
a fraternity party. I think maybe it's just him, and
that might have been just Sarah Jeskin Kim. It's because
(24:54):
when Sarah j it was where Kim's character gets some
I think, gets involved with a young college kid in
Texas supposedly. But I noticed that the dormitory. I mean
I didn't notice this until we were really shooting, and
then I look and see it's called Culter Hall. Who
(25:15):
did this? You know?
Speaker 1 (25:16):
I love it?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
That's adorable.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
We had some fun little inside jokes, didn't we we did.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
It was it was a very sweet deal and being there,
Silver Cup, and I mean, yeah, it was just I mean,
it was a great deal, you know, I mean it
really was.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
It was I'm so happy that you were there. I mean,
it's also that's part of the reason I wanted to
do the podcast.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
There's a couple of reasons.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
One is it does hold up well, as you said
at the beginning, and there's this whole new group of
people who's watching it on Netflix, and it's so exciting.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
And obviously they think some things.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Are crazy, right because it is a different time, and
then some things are a complete you know, current conversation
being had, you know, on social media or whatever. And
then also I just love to get everyone together and
hear everybody's memories because for me, it's incredible, our entire history,
you know, it's been so amazing. And back in the beginning,
(26:09):
you know, we didn't talk about things kind of you know,
like I think we felt like when you would do.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Press, it was more presentational.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
It wasn't necessarily we wouldn't tell so many stories about
behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I don't think people knew so much about production really
in a way, and so.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
It's a way to kind of get everybody like personal
memories and weave them together into a quilt of like
what was it like to actually create the show, you know,
by all the different people.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I mean, that's what I'd like to do. At least
that's my goal.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
That's a great goal. I really thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
It's fun, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Yes, it's fun. I didn't the what is it called
the Sopranos podcast? Yeah, talking Sopranos with Michael imperially.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, love it.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
And it was just the same thing, you know, just
a blast, nothing different, kind of funny memories and stuff
like that.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Okay, so, as I said, this is what you brought up. Also,
it's so beautiful Sarah in the window, and I think
you know because we've had the voice over and then
we used to have the talking to the camera right,
which was like so awkward, and at this point it's going,
I don't know if it's totally gone. It shows up
in weird moments, but didn't show up in this one,
thank god, because we as we know, Sara Jessica did
(27:37):
not really enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
She wants to stand the scene, which totally makes sense.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
But when we began this show, and the curtains are
blowing and she's smoking, and you're hearing her interior thoughts
about the funeral, like it has such a depth, you know,
to it, because I had not remembered this at all.
I had not remembered that the funeral. I hadn't remembered
the way that the funeral tied into her relationship with
Big that she literally thinks, am I really living life?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
What am I doing?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
And that's why she calls him back, which is I
think so relatable in so many ways. You know, life
is passing, people pass away, and you do think like,
oh my god, am I actually living life? Like it's
a real valid question. And I had forgotten that I've
follow in love or whatever, lust whatever, like with the widower,
that though all those things are tied together, which I
(28:24):
think is also kind of one of the things that
the show is starting to do successfully that it didn't
really do first season.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yeah, I think that's I mean, I watched very little
the first season because honestly, it was like, well, this
is not that interesting to me because it had really
didn't have a look to it and it wasn't really
as focused. I mean, it was finding itself.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
In fairness, definitely.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
I mean, if you see the early Simpsons, you go,
it looks nothing like the show now, right, So in fairness,
it takes a while to find a show and define it.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
And I would say that the main thing of how
the first season looks is dark. You can't even see. Yes,
You're like, where are they in the nighttime? It's so interesting,
you know, you're just like, what, well are they there
on the street?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
I mean there's a quaint, like a kind of nostalgic,
you know, quality to it because it's sometimes also we're
in the village and it looks just nothing like the
village looks now, you know what I'm saying, Like it's empty. Yeah,
it's fascinating. Yeah, but that's one of the things that
I noticed in your episode. In this particular episode, and
also freak Show. Freak Show, Cynthia is lit so beautifully
(29:31):
and you're so close on her face and all those
scenes that she's doing about talking dirty, and it's just
so there's something so vulnerable and young about it.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
You know, I don't know how to put it.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
But it's it has a sweetness at the same time
that we're talking about these kind of risque sexual things
and whatever. There's just like a vulnerability of being like
inside these women's lives.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
I agree with you. In fact, Chris, and I was
thinking that I had to saw it last night. I thought,
you know, what's interesting about the show is it's extremely
innocent with all of this sexual you know, focus and
some of it. None of it's graphic, but it's all
you can't miss what's going on. Yeah, it's oddly innocent.
I think.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
There's something sort of sweet about it. It's there's no
it's not really mean spirited at all. And even when
somebody is kind of a dupe or like freak show
those guys, yeah, yeah, they're funny. I mean and we
you may remember that we we lit them like, I mean,
they and Michael Patrick, I'm sure it must have done it.
They bring in this kind of freak in this music
(30:40):
that sounds like a carnival. Yeah, you know that, so
that each one of those is lit to look like
something in a carnival.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
And it's scary, yeah, but sweet and scary. I think
some of that and this is what I love. And
it's a little bit sometimes hard to talk about it.
But I do remember in the first season as actors,
as actresses, we were unsure of the point of view
of the show, right, So, like we knew that we
were these women and that we were going to talk
(31:08):
about sexuality, but when it came to time to do
a sex scene, you know, was it like from the
male perspective? Was it supposed to be titillating or was
it supposed to be realistic, or like, were we going
to make our female viewers uncomfortable? There were questions that
we had as actors because it was so different. You know,
it wasn't like in film. There was a lot of sexuality,
but it was very much from the male gaze in
(31:31):
terms of like titillation and not necessarily realistic and all
those things that we were definitely changing that, but we
didn't really know what we were doing in the beginning.
And what I see now by the time that you're
really establishing your look is that and I think this
is a powerful thing and it's kind of intangible. But
the way that you film someone can be from a
(31:54):
perspective of love, you know, of like interest, like curiosity,
which is how especially the Cynthia in the Freak Show
you're so close to her, but she's so she has
no guard you know, she's so brilliant obviously, but she
has no guard up. Like her face is so open.
(32:16):
But that's something that you can only create on a
set with like a love and a trust that the
actor can feel that way and that we trust the
camera crew and that the director you in this case,
is someone where we know that we're taken care of.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Well, that's yeah, that's good. It's interesting because I do
try to. I mean, I've never worked with a what
do they call it a with the section the person
that they now have.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
It's a Z coordinator.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
I never worked with one, and I hope I never
have two friends.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
You don't need to allan is other people who need that, Okay.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yeah, because I mean I've shot more sex scenes than
probably any of those people will in their lifetime. Yes,
And you know, it was always about finding exactly you know,
just making sure that the actors are you know, having
I would always talk to actors before that. I don't
remember Sexy Seed, but I'm sure it was no different,
and you know, just to say, look, this is what
(33:18):
we're going to do. I wouldn't chase away and just
have a quiet conversation, right, make sure it's no awkwardness
or anybody was uncomfortable. And but I will tell you what.
It's the line that I've said many a time because
I think it's really right. The there's someone once said,
and I don't know who said it, everything is about
(33:40):
sex but sex, And so I kind of follow that guideline.
In other words, when I shoot a sex scene, I'm
always and that was true for Sex and the City
for sure, which is what is this scene really about?
And how can I show that? So in that case,
it was about Cynthia's innocence and her delight, almost like
(34:03):
a child, discovering something that she could do that she didn't.
Never occurred to her that she could do that and
actually embrace it, so to speak. But it was about that,
not about the dirtiness of what she's saying or whatever,
however one perceives that. And you made me think about
you know, and there's comical sex scenes. I mean the
one when Samantha has sex with this college kid and
(34:27):
you know, I sort of treated like a rodeo, you know,
like you you know, he kind of does some of
these things that the guy would write writing a bucking bronco.
You know what they would do, and so you know
that was meant to be comical. A lot of them
are comical, but one of the ones that I'm thinking of.
The point I want to make is that when there
are not a lot of serious sex scenes in that
show generally, but one of them, and when they are,
(34:52):
I'm not interested in the sex. I'm interested in suggesting
what the feeling is of that moment. And at the
end end of I guess I'm trying to remember if
it's oh, yeah, four women in a funeral, it ends
with carry in bed with big camera really just brushes
across them. It doesn't really lingo on that all. Just
(35:15):
it has a very sensual look beautiful, yeah, but there's
nothing it's just you know what's happening. But what the
scene is about is this is a a quiet intimate moment,
really intimate between the two of them, in which the
camera is just simply going on in its sort of
(35:35):
sensual path past them to kind of and the movement
of the cameras meant to kind of emphasize or underscore
maybe the sensuality of the moment as opposed to the
sexuality that there is that there. It's skin on skin
in a very intimate and meaningful way. But it glides
past them and towards the window, where once again you
see the curtains blowing, and it's also kind of going out,
(35:57):
and it's heading towards the New York night where others
are making love.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Yes, beautiful, and it's so you know, sir, Jessica is
obviously rightly so very always concerned with any kind of
sexual scene or nudity question or anything.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
And she's not easy to trust.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
And I think that's wonderful, especially because she's bland carry
and that is one of the few scenes where you
really she's very at ease and you get to see skin.
It's not salacious in any way. It's sensual, as you say,
and that's because she trusted you, which is, you know, incredible,
because it adds so much when she does choose to
(36:37):
show something, you know what I'm saying, It has more impact.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
That's great, that's great. I love her. I just was
thinking that one of the things that I really enjoyed
on Freak Show was the thing when she becomes the
freak and I intentionally had her have a cigarette in
her mouth. The whole time.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yes, it's good. It's so funny.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
It's so funny because now no one smokes right, like
you're literally like a serial killer.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
If you smoke now, it takes it.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Out of her mouth and she ends up and had
I said, get up on the bed, standing on the bed.
So she's really not doing anything right at that moment.
She's standing on this guy's bed, break into his private
collection of right, right, and and with this cigarette. So
she looks kind of like a I don't know, like
(37:31):
a I don't I don't even know how to say it,
like she's just some tough.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Broad from Yes, she does. She doesn't look like herself
at all.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
It's true, and that makes it all the better when
he comes back in exactly so Alan, obviously, we have
so much to talk about. We are going to come back.
You guys, hang in there with us. We're going to
talk about for women and a funeral,
Host
Kristin Davis
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.