December 18, 2025 • 57 mins
A father and daughter come together to fight against a betrayal that devastated their family.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
There was a safety deposit box in Malaysia that her
and I had the key to that was a secret
and I wasn't allowed to tell anyone that it existed.
And we'd like go put gold bars in this safety
deposit box that has the big vaulted door.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It was like the slow burn to like, that wasn't
weird to me.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal. I show about
the people we trust the most and the deceptions that
change everything. Usually, each episode of Betrayal Weekly follows one
person's story, but today's episode is told by two members
of the same family, a father and daughter.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
The betrayal wasn't something that happened in a moment. It
happened over a long time, and I didn't even recognize
what was happening.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
That's Dan Kimball. He is a mild mannered Midwestern man
in his late sixties. He and his daughter Sage, had
their world shattered by the person they both trusted most.
Here's Sage.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
In my normal life.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I don't talk about this to my friends or my people,
except for some very close friends, because like, how do
you even start to tell this story?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
When we first reached out to them about telling their
story on Betrayal.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
To be honest. When I got that message from you,
I thought it was a.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Scam, But the title of our show caught his attention.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Betrayal. The word betrayal was the thing that kind of
struck my mind.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Our team spent months talking with Dan in Sage. They
went back and forth about if they wanted to use
their real names in this episode. After taking time to think,
they came back with a clear answer, If.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
We're telling the truth, what do we have to be
afraid of?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
We're going to start this story From Sage's perspective, she
grew up in picturesque Santa Barbara, California, in the nineties.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
At the time, it felt more like a hippie town.
You could do outdoorsy stuff. I have very fond memories
there of like finding bananas, lugs, and being outside.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Her parents are both eccentric citizen of the world types.
They originally met because of their mutual love of the
visionary architect and designer Buckminster Fuller.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
They met at Buckminster Fuller's birthday party and then they
were friends years before they ever were in a relationship.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Her dad, Dan, spent most of his life doing sustainable design,
working on cutting edge computer technology. He's the one who
nurtured her childhood curiosity.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
My dad would be curious about what I was interested in,
and then he'd get excited about it. I was really
obsessed with like space for a little bit, and he
built a planetarium with me, and like, let me go
on the street and like sell tickets for people to
like look.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Into my planetarium show.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Dan was a constant and gentle presence for Sage and
her mom Fara.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
She was affectionate. She would hug me, she would kiss me,
she would play with me, like outdoorsy things. She loved
doing with me.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
As a kid, Sage always wanted to be close to
her mom.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I felt like she was the thing that made me safe.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I couldn't exist without her, like I believed that I
wouldn't exist without her.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Fara was a Sufi Muslim. She came to the religion
as a teenager when her dad was working as a
diplomat in Iran. That's where Fara fell in love with Islam.
It became a part of her identity and she raised
her daughter's age in the faith.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
We all called ourselves Sufi's, which is a sect of
Islam have these like Sufi gatherings at our house with
like dancing. There would be like forty people coming over
and like I'd just get to like hang out. Those
Sufi parties were a lot of fun for Sage.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Growing up as a white Muslim girl in Santa Barbara
was a unique experience.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Friends would ask me, like, are you embarrassed to walk
around with your mom because she wore this. It's a
hit job, but it's also like a cape thing.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
People would ask me if my mom was a nun.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Her mom started wearing long white robes that looked like
a nun's habit. Dan sewed them for her by hand.
Sage was it embarrassed about her mom. She wanted to
be like her because her mom really lived out her values.
She was a peace activist.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
We'd go to a lot of anti war or peace
rallies when I was growing up.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I remember feeling.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Really cool that we were out there doing something about
the world.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Fara organized a movement to send medicine and supplies to
civilians in Iraq. Sage remembers watching her mom's work with pride.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
That was about five or so.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
My mom was going on a humanitarian aid trip where
a group of people were going to be breaking the
sanctions to deliver medicine and things to the people in Iraq.
That was a super cool thing that my mom did. Like,
that's so brave and so cool.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Dan was deeply involved in this movement too. It was
a family effort. The Kimbals were instrumental in raising millions
of dollars from medicine to be sent to children in Iraq.
As much as Sage loved her mom and wanted to
be just like her, Fara could be stern.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I remember from a very young age knowing that what
mom says goes like if you did something wrong, you
knew immediately to like get it together, and it almost
like your eyes changed.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Whenever Sage did something wrong, Fara taught her how to
make amends.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
My tactic from an early age was writing her a
note or a letter.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I'm going to see if I can find it. Actually, oh,
here it is. I found it. There's a part here
that says thank you for teaching me what Islam is.
I don't know where I would be today if not
for you, even though it may not seem like it now,
because I didn't live up to my duties or help
you out. I truly love you. You are the most
important person in the world to me.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Fara was often upset with Sage's dad Dan. Sage didn't
know why, but she wanted to help.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Once I was like eight nine ten, I learned that
I should try and fix it. So I would go
and talk to him, and then I would go and
relay information, and I would go tell him, here's what
you should do.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I know how to fix these problems.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Sage was confused by her parents' relationship.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I never saw them be affectionate with each other. I
don't think I ever saw them kiss or like hug.
They said they really loved each other. But i'd see
like my friend's parents, and they'd be like arm around
each other or like holding hands.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Bara put pressure on Dan to bring in more money
for the family. That became a source of a lot
of their fights.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
At a certain point, my mom started saying that, well,
it's the man's job to provide, like I shouldn't have
to provide anything, because it was his job to make
sure that there was food on the table.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Their family was growing. When Sage was eight years old,
her parents had two more kids, twin boys.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I was pumped because I was like, great, even better
now I get two friends, not just one.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Money was a stressor. Dan had one unsuccessful tech startup
of his own, but he always landed on his feet.
At the time, he worked for an early micro computing
company doing user interface design. Plus, they were in the
middle of building their dream home in Santa Barbara. Bara
and Dan had been designing it together. It would be
(08:14):
a sustainable home that incorporated Islamic architecture.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
There was a house that we were trying to build
in Santa Barbara that got cut because it had a dome,
and people said that the dome was We're trying to
build a mosque.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
It was two thousand and five, a time when Islamophobia
was rampant in the US. Siege encountered it at school.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
I do remember that being like a Muslims or terrorists
like that being said, and me fighting with people about that.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Fara and Dan learned that it was one of their
neighbors who made Islamophobic comments about the design of their house.
It made them want to live in a place where
they weren't outsiders.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I was in ninth grade at the time, and I
remember coming home and they were like boxes packed.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Fara wanted to move the family to a Muslim majority country.
Dan quit his job and planned to work remotely on
tech startups in Asia. A few months later, they went
to visit a family friend in Bali, Indonesia.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
And then we didn't leave.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Bali's actually majority Hindu, but Fara felt comfortable there and
they found the perfect property.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
It was a big piece of land and there's a
river down below, and you look across like rice fields,
and you could see on a clear day like Mount Agun,
which is the big volcano in Bali, in the distance.
Like it was incredible, beautiful, beautiful, but at the time
it was just a piece of land. There was nothing
on it.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
The family packed up their whole lives, put most of
it in storage, and relocated to Bali. They got to
work building an estate complete with an organic garden and
a set of traditional Javanese villas.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
They're called Joe glows, and they're these really cool Indonesian
structures that are like no nails.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
The family came together with neighbors and friends to help
with the construction. They also started a main house where
the family would live. It was a huge undertaking, and
though she was fourteen sage knew her parents were taking
a big risk.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Buying that property was like everything we had, so like
you're putting all your eggs in that basket.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
To afford this piece of land and the construction costs,
Dan and Fara had used all of their resources. They
sold their property in Santa Barbara and put their savings,
including all the money Dan had inherited from his parents,
into the Bali property. Once it was completed, it would
be an oasis, a tropical paradise for their family, one
(10:53):
they could monetize. Fara had the idea to start a
raw foods business at the house in Bali, hosts tourists
and chefs who were leaders in the raw food movement.
It's a diet of mostly fruits, nuts, and vegetables.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Health and wellness was another big thing that she was into.
She got really into like raw food and actually made
the cookbook with like delicious raw food recipes. But like
there were always extremes in that.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
That year, Fara took stage on a solo trip to
visit a community run by women.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
There's an Indonesian tribe that's still a matriarchal society, which
it was actually really sick, like it was a very cool, beautiful,
peaceful society.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Stage was about fifteen after that trip to visit the
matriarchal society, Fara brought her daughter along more often, including
for business matters and important errands.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I've started going to banks with her to do banking things.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Around that same time, Fara began bringing the kids on
trips with her where she was buying gold bars.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
A gold bar.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I remember at the time it being like ten thousand
dollars and us going and getting like six gold bars
or something like that. This was also the time she
was getting into Alex Jones and like money and corruption.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Alex Jones is an American media host. He's built a
large following through commentary on politics, culture, and government institutions.
He's best known for promoting conspiracy theories and fear mongering
about economic collapse.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I think that was where the influence to get the
gold came from, because it was like, this is where
how you keep your money safe.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Some of those trips are seered into stages memory, like
when they went to Singapore.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
We would go to Singapore to buy gold because it
was a good place to buy gold. And then she
would have me and my brothers put like you have
those like you know, those like travel bags that go
like under your clothes.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
She made it seem like it was a normal thing.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
She started talking to Stage more and more about finances,
and Fara told her these trips, the gold, the banking,
it was their secret.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
There was a.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Safety deposit box in Malaysia that her and I had
the key to. That was a secret and I wasn't
allowed to tell anyone that it existed. And like there's
like armed guards outside of this like safety deposit area,
and we'd like go put gold bars in this safety
deposit box that has the big vaulted door and like
a guard at the door.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
It was wild, but.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Like again it was like the slow burn too, Like
that wasn't weird to me.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Sage knew she wasn't allowed to question her mom.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
I was so intertwined with what she wanted. I don't
think I was even always told what I was doing.
I just did whatever she asked me to do.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Stage trusted in her mom connection to God.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
That was so central to how she parented me was
here's God, and then we're all serving God. The understanding
was that she's like a step below God. God is
speaking to her it was like, if you're going against her,
you're going against God.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Eventually, Bara let her daughter in on her plan. She
wanted to create a matriarchal financial structure within their own family.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
She's a feminist and she wants a matriarchal society and
the women should be in charge of the finances. That
was the first time I heard that, like, we are
going to do this matriarchal.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Thing as part of this structure. Fara wanted Stage to
be the signatory on their family trust instead of her
dad or one of her brothers.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
When I became the signatory on that trust document, it
was because we were treating this like the women have
power over the finances, like it's going to be so progressive.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Sage was on board. She signed the documents her my
master too.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
The understanding was like, if you're a feminist or if
you care about women, you will also support this.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Fara explained to Sage that this had to be done
because she said their dad wasn't good with money. Bara
told the kids that Dan's job in tech startups wasn't
good enough.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
He'd go get investment in a company that he was
working on, and then she would say that investment isn't income.
That's stealing money from people for these businesses. And so
she would say to us that, like, your dad is
just swindling these people out of their money because he
won't get a job. And if he cared about you,
(15:55):
he would get a job.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
But it wasn't just Dan's job that was the problem.
She started telling the kids their dad didn't love them anymore.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
She would say to us that, like, your dad doesn't care.
He doesn't care about you. He's a dead bee. He
doesn't care about his kids. I know you love him,
but if he cared about you, he would be doing
something to protect you.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Dan was often traveling for work away from the house,
but whenever he was home.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I remember later on in my teenage years, my dad
was sleeping in literally this like outdoor shack. But it
was because I begged her not to kick him out.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Fully, Fara explained to the kids that she was scared
of Dan.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
She would ask me to be a witness if he
was talking to her because she wanted a witness when
he was abusive to her, like if I cared about her,
I'd be there to protect her. In that.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
By the time Stage left for college, she believed she
had to protect the family from her dad, and a
big part of that meant keeping the family money out
of his hands.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
The understanding was like, in order for us to have anything,
we have to make sure he doesn't have access to
these things because he's just going to squander it. And
my dad didn't know any of this, All.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Of this, from the trips to the bank to the
stories she told the kids, I.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Was completely oblivious, and I think it was orchestrated that way.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Once the Kimbals moved to Bali, Fara began acting differently.
She isolated her oldest daughter, Sage, and told her stories
about how her father didn't love her. It got in
Sage's head. Her mom started taking her to the bank
and asking her to sign documents. Now we're going to
hear Dan's perspective, starting from when they moved to Bali.
(18:15):
It's something that was difficult for him to revisit. Dan
Metfara when they were teenagers. They were friends for fifteen
years before they became a couple. They shared the same
core value wanting to make the world a better place, and.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
I appreciated that about her. Definitely very much a global thinker,
and she's a very charismatic person, I mean, a really
beautiful soul in many ways.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
By the time they got to Bali, they'd been married
for almost twenty years. Dan didn't share the same religious
zeal as Fara did, but he respected her values. So
when she said she wanted to move to Indonesia.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
The decision had already been made for me. Really, she
wanted to be in a Muslim culture, and you know,
I'm want to really complain. I was always wanting to
just go along with what we were trying to do.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Dan had been the breadwinner for most of their marriage.
Working in tech startups meant that sometimes he had a
high paying job and sometimes he was in between gigs,
but through it all he made sure the family was
okay financially. In fact, Dan had been the one managing
the couple's money since the beginning.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
I took over responsibility for all the finances. I just
made the books every month and just did it and
paid the bills. I kind of knew the QuickBooks and
putting it all together and working with the text people
and just getting it all organized. I don't think that
she had ever really had a desire to handle money stuff.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Over the course of their marriage, Dan watched his wife
become more and more religious. She'd chosen her own name, Bara,
Religion became her whole life. By the time they got
to Bali.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
There was kind of a delusional nature to her describing herself.
She was so close to God that she could understand
things that were beyond my understanding.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
But Dan saw the value in living abroad. Once he
toured the property in Bali, he was sold afar his dream.
To make that happen financially.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
We moved all of our assets to Indonesia through we
started a company in Indonesia, so money would go to
this company. We have to have one Indonesian director, so
a good Indonesian friend was the director. My wife and
I were the other directors, and we owned a fifty
to fifty that Indonesian director didn't own any and most
of the assets then to buy the property were bought
(20:47):
through this company. We paid a huge down payment to
buy the property.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
It was a big financial risk, and it brought Dan
and Bara closer. They both believed in what they were building.
Takeet other in Bali, even if it meant pulling all
of their available resources.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Oftentimes people think, oh, you must have been so wealthy
to do all that stuff. No, we weren't. We just
were brave enough to go and do it right. I mean,
it was risky in the sense that we spent a
lot of money to buy that property, and but we
just we didn't mind living with that kind of risk.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
At the beginning of their move, the family had to
stay in a hotel for a couple weeks. There, Dan
noticed Fara was taken by the new lifestyle they could
afford abroad.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
We lived for quite a long time in this fancy hotel,
and I didn't know why we were staying there because
it was costing us too much money, and I was
kind of complaining about it. But she was very pushy
around money, like, you know, no, we're gonna do this.
We're going to spend the money and it takes to
do this. Of course, it's both it's all our money.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
That hotel stay was temporary. Dan was busy orchestrating and
designing the construction project. He was there for nearly every
step of the process.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
And we built it up into this beautiful little mini
resort which was all based on raw food, which is
a wonderful kind of niche for us, because anyone anywhere
in the world it was interested in raw food would
come to our place. It was the only place in
Bali that you could get raw food at the time,
and so we trained people in how to make raw food.
In fact, some of the people that went to these
(22:25):
New York raw food restaurants were trained by us.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Fara loved living in Bali. They both did.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
I just fell in love with Bali.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Once most of the construction was done, Dan started traveling
around Asia consulting for a series of tech startups. Stage
was finishing high school. The twin boys were in elementary school,
and Fara seemed to be pulling away from Dan every
time he came home from a business trip. Fara became
(22:56):
increasingly distant. After a year or two, I got to
the point that we.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Didn't have a relationship anymore. I mean we never slept together,
we never I was in separate quarters from her. But
I just went along with it.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Dan was under pressure to keep bringing in a steady income,
and he was scrambling to make that happen. He figured
it was normal for he and his wife to go
through stressful years where they drifted apart. The only thing
that bothered him was when Fara started taking the kids
on trips and telling Dan she didn't want him there.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
There was a lot of exclusion, like, okay, sage and
I are going to go to Indonesia though and buy
some more teak to try to find the teak for
the house, and you're going to stay here, right. It's
just like telling me what I had to do and
how I'm going to do it.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
This had been their dynamic for almost their whole marriage.
Fara called the shots and Dan was happy to go
along with her choices. But after they moved abroad, her
the choices began to exclude Dan.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
There are many vacations that they went on that I
didn't go on because I was pushed out of it.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
One of those trips, my wife.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Wanted to visit this community in Malaysia that is a
Muslim society where the women are in control of everything,
so it was of interest to her.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
A few months after that trip, Baras started taking an
interest in managing their finances herself. She told Dan she
wanted her own private bank account, and he didn't see
any issue with that. After about five years at the
raw Food resort in Indonesia, they were approached by a
land developer. He wanted to buy their land at a
(24:41):
premium stage. Was about to go off to college and
the twins were ten. The family was ready for a
new chapter, so they made the sale.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
We sold the property in Indonesia for three million dollars.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Dan and Bara put that money into a new family
trust that they established in Malaysia. That's where they would
be moving next. They'd had something similar in Indonesia, but
not with nearly this amount of money in it. So
the formation of this trust in Malaysia was a big deal.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
This notion of a trust was very important to us.
People have understood what it was, but the word trust
I don't think had the same meaning to her that
it had to me.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
For Dan, the family trust was about ensuring safety for
their kids' futures. It was for his and far As
future too. Like always, ownership of the trust would be
divided evenly.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
The company we created in Indonesia was fifty to fifty held.
The company that was created in Malaysia was held by
the trust, which we were co creators of. We were
named in the trust as co granters, and we moved
all the assets to Malaysia.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
When they sold their property in Bali. They'd actually sold
the land, not the houses they'd built. Those were theirs
if they could find a way to move them. The
big house had been a special project of Dan's.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
So then we decided, well, hey, let's bring the house
from Indonesia to Malaysia because we didn't want to start
from scratch.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Their plan was to deconstruct the house in Bali piece
by piece so they could rebuild it somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
We asked everybody from the village to come and help
us knock down these houses, and within three days they
tore it down and packed it all up. So a
few months later we had two giant shipping containers come
to us in Malaysia with our house.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
They found a piece of land in Malaysia where they
could reconstruct their dream home, and now they could afford
to take their time. They hired an architect who saw
their vision. The project became Dan and far As focus.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
We have lovely time design and building and working with
the architects, and like we're working on something other than us.
It wasn't about us, It was about this thing we
were doing together.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
When the house was completed, it was breathtaking picture a
jungle oasis with floor to ceiling windows and towering hand
carved doors, tropical plants, and natural light flooding every room.
And because it was the same structure they originally built
in Bali, it wasn't just beautiful, it was meaningful. The
(27:29):
house was a symbol of what their family could accomplish together.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
We rebuilt our property that this gorgeous place, into this
extraordinary house.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Once they got settled in Malaysia, Dan got back to work.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
During this time, I opened a kind of a consulting
company and I had some contracts with technology development work.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
One of his main contracts was in a city a
few hours away. But this time when he would come
home from work to ups, he experienced a new level
of isolation. It was as if the whole family was
giving him the silent treatment. When he asked Farah what
was going on, she said she didn't know what he
was talking about. So Dan responded by throwing himself into
(28:15):
work and building up his own social network.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
With lots of my friends and people that I built
relationships with, like this architect and our next stortabor. I
became good friends with them, but she never wanted to
even go over there.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Dan was making enough for the family to live comfortably,
and he liked his work. Around this time, Dan was
offered a salary job. It paid a lot, but it
was a role he didn't want. When he brought it
up to Fara, she showed a renewed interest in Dan.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
My wife was pushing to try to get me to
take this job. When I told her I'd turned it down,
it was like she blew up. She was upset by this.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
This is when Dan first heard about her desire for
the women in the family to control the finances. You
heard Stage talk about that earlier in the episode. Stage
had been in on this for years, but she was
told not to talk about it with her dad, so
Dan was just learning about it in Malaysia.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Of course, it's both it's all our money, but she's
the one who's kind of now starting to control it.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
If it was important to Fara to control the finances,
he was okay with that. It gave him peace of mind,
knowing that the trust was still held fifty to fifty
with a friend of theirs serving as director. But after
Fara took over management of the family's daily spending, the
marriage deteriorated even further.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
And it was like very tumultuous time. She argued with
me and demanded that I move into the mataged quarters.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Dan didn't even know what he'd done to make his
wife so upset, but now he was always walking on eggshells, and.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
I thought we were still in love. This is where
I realized that love wasn't the same thing. Love was
transactional for her.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Now that the house was nearly completed, Dan felt like
he wasn't useful anymore.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
There was no need for me anymore. I felt like
I was Yeah, it was like good discard.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Around that time, Dan was on a business trip when
he was robbed.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Guys on a motorcycle went and grabbed my bag and
drove off with my computer and my passport and everything else.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
He had to call Fara and beg for her help.
Speaker 5 (30:34):
This issue of me needing to get enough money to
buy a computer that had been stolen, and what kind
of position had I got myself into to be so
subservient to funds that were ours, to thinking that I
had to beg for it.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
For Dan, this was an emotional breaking point.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
I realized, Hey, there's something seriously wrong here. There was
something that cracked.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Dan managed to get himself back home. But when he
arrived at the house.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
I go there, try my key. It doesn't work, and
I realized, oh, she's changed the key. The doors had
been locked, and I wasn't welcome anymore.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
With no other place to stay and no access to
their money, Dan started sleeping in a friend's car.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
During that time, I basically ran out of funds we
had playing joint funds, and she just wouldn't send any money.
And I felt suppressed from even asking. You know, I
was literally living out of a friend's car. I don't
(31:48):
think she thinks of it that way, but I was homeless.
It pushed me into homelessness.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Dan still believed that if he could just sit down
and talk with his wife, they could figure out a
path forward. It would probably mean divorce and separating their assets.
He just wanted to look her in the eye and
make the decision together.
Speaker 6 (32:10):
A few days later, I remember going to the house
once trying to see her and just talk with her
about this in just a very calm boy it just like,
what's going on?
Speaker 4 (32:23):
What do we do about this?
Speaker 3 (32:25):
He knew Fara went on a bike ride every morning,
so he waited for her by the front gate of
their house.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
She was riding a bicycle toward me and I was
there ready to greet her. She looked straight ahead and
acted as if I was a tree, just drove past
me without even glancing my direction.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
That moment when Fara passed him on the bicycle was
one of the last times Dan would ever see his wife,
because the next time he met with the accountants, you
learned something that would alter the rest of his life.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
I went there and we were going over the documents
and they said, well, the shares were transferred into your
wife's name. I said, what the shares were?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Chance?
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Those are the trust shairs that were transferred into my
wife's name. Is he I have done the state and
there's something And they were just daing as matter of
factly right. They showed me the documentation that said that
this is the transfer and I said, well, what about
the directorship and he says, yeah, well she was made
director too, and I was just I was just dumbfounded.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
At that meeting, Dan had been completely locked out of
their family trust.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
She only needed the approval of the trustee, so somehow
she talked to the trustee.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
The trustee was a friend of theirs who lived locally.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
I think She started to work on him and said, Okay,
I'm gonna I'm transferring all this stuff over into into
my name. I'm going to be the director now. And
he wish went and did it. He just signed the papers, thinking,
I mean that's what his claim was. Oh, it was
you know, she's your wife, you know, as she's all
been approved by her and you.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Dan had not approved for his half of the trust
shares to be transferred into his wife's name that gave
her sole access to their entire life savings, but he
hadn't signed any documents. He had no knowledge of this transfer.
Dan immediately called their friend who'd been the trustee.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
I just remember being outraged that he would do this
and how did this happen. We can't move on like this.
Change it back. It has to be corrected. And I
was absolutely adamant about it.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
But this isn't the kind of thing you can just
request to change back. There was a lot of red tape.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
I worked for months, literally most of the rest of
twenty seventeen. I talked to multiple attorneys about how do
we do this because it's already been signed over. I
talked to the trust attorney. He finally said to me. Listen,
You're gonna have to get an attorney to I can't
do anything because she's not going to agree to it,
and the trust he can't do it on his own.
And but you know, that's all kinds of crap.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Dan's life was on pause as he tried to educate
himself about international trust laws and marriage laws.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
My entire life savings are tied up in this, and
I'm literally penniless.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
If he wanted recourse, he would have to go through
the Malaysian court system.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
I'm going to have to file suit, and I'm going
to have to file suit against my wife and the
company that's in the trust. Even my daughter has to
be on the suit because she was the signatory to
the trust. It was just mind bendingly painful.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
For the final act of this story, we're going to
hear from both Dan and Sage, because what happened next
didn't just unfold around them. It happened between them.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Can I add on to that, Dad, Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
We wanted to bring them together to tell the end
of the story from their joint perspective.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Sage, your experience was very different than my own because
it comes from me being a husband rather than being
a daughter totally different, but yet the same thing happens.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Sage had been hearing horrible stories about her dad. They'd
been kept away from each other for so long that
they weren't living in the same reality.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
I was alienated from my dad for years because she
told me he wasn't trustworthy.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
When Dan was locked out of the house, Sage was
in college. She was barely speaking to her father at
the time. She only heard her mother's version of the story.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
When she changed the locks.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
She then was posing it at the time as like
he's trying to break in and being like, I'm terrified,
And I remember being angry at my dad, like leave
her alone because she's making it seem like he's trying
to like hurt her or something, and I never thought
he was capable of hurting her.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
After the trust was transferred out of his name, Dan
reached out to Sage to tell her what was going on.
That's when he began putting the pieces together about why
Sage was so distant.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
I didn't realize that I had been spoken ill love
for many years, and so that the impressions that I
got from my early discussions with Sage were that, Wow,
you don't know me.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Sage was twenty three and living in New York City
when her dad called her.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
He said, Hey, I want you to know I am
filing a lawsuit against your mom, but because you were
on that document, I also have to sue you.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
But it's like I'm going to cover your lawyer fees.
We're going to just get your statement and then.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
You'll be recused. He was talking to me about how
this was all going to work before doing it.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
But when Sage talked to her mom, she heard a
completely different story.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
It escalated to, like, why would you want to have
a relationship with my abuser? Like you're an abuser too
if you want to have a relationship with my abuser,
even if that person is your father.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Her mom's story was confusing to her. Sage had mediated
her parents' fights before, but she had never seen anything physical.
In fact, Sage's personal experience of her dad was that
he was a quiet and gentle guy.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
From the time I was born.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
He was gentle, and he listens in all of the fights.
The times when my mom would be crazy, he wouldn't
even raise his voice. I think I've heard him yell
twice in my life. I've never seen hurt an animal.
I've never seen him hurt anything.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
When he first came to her in crisis, Sage was
deeply conflicted about who to believe.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
I was like, I don't believe you.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Show me the proof, and seeing the proof of like,
here's this money that was given to me, here's this,
here's what we bought. A huge part of that was
his inheritance that even got us the house in Bali,
and I was starting to believe in him.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
But Sage still didn't want to be in the middle
of this. She tried to completely remove herself from the situation.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
I got like a notarized letter that was just like
this should be solved between my parents.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
I should have never been on this document.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
This notarized letter didn't change anything. She was legally implicated
in this.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
My dad was like, I don't want you to be
in the middle of it either, And you are in
the middle of it. And I would start listening to
him more. I was trained that he was so awful
that like, you're just lying to me. But I was like,
I want to know what his side is. So I listened,
(40:17):
and like we had a conversation where he told me
all the things like that were going on.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Then Fara came to stage with a new document, one
that would close the trust entirely and make it much
harder for her dad to ever access his life savings.
If she signed this piece of paper, she would be
taking a side. There'd be no going back stage. Didn't
want to be responsible for the millions of dollars in
shared assets her parents were fighting over, and she.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Was supposed to it as I just need your signature
on this thing, just need your one signature, and I
told her, no, I'm not going to sign it because
I don't want to be in the middle of this.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
But saying no to her mother was the red button.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
It felt like me choosing not to sign it was
me choosing to not have a relationship with her. I
could just sign it and then this would be over
and I wouldn't have to deal with this excruciating pain.
But I didn't, And that was like the first time
that she truly stopped speaking to me.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
And then came the call from her dad.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
He called me and was like, did you sign the document?
And I said no, I didn't. I promise you I
didn't sign the document and he was like, you didn't
sign here you one hundred percent sure, and I'm like,
I this was the hardest thing I've ever done in
my life.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
I'm one hundred percent sure.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
I didn't sign the document, and he was like, your
signature is on the document.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
I just told my dad again and again I didn't
do it, and he believed me.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Then how did her signature get on the document? Sage
felt like her own boundaries had been violated.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
And then I started therapy. Also, really really was the
thing that helped me process and understand and start to
gain clarity. It was through therapy that I started to
set boundaries with her, and then it's.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
Over Going to therapy helped Sage understand that her dynamic
with her mom was not normal, like how her mom
would react whenever Sage wasn't doing what she wanted.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
She would pretend she had a knife and she'd be like,
this is what you're doing to me, like stabbing her,
like it was awful.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
When Sage moved to New York, she began forming her
own identity separate from her mom. She started making new
friends and forming new ideas about the world. Instead of
being happy for her, far began ignoring Sage's calls and
distancing herself emotionally from Sage. Meanwhile, Dan's case moved forward,
(42:54):
a hearing was set in Malaysia, and Sage made a
decision she never.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Thought she would.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Ultimately, I decided to be involved in the court case.
I think it was also for myself because I think
there was something about that that was healing. To get
to finally say this happened to me in a public way.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Sage submitted a notarized epidavit to the Malaysian court declaring
that she did not sign for the revocation of the trust,
nor did she have any knowledge of the transfer of
the trust assets or knowledge of Bara becoming director. When
the hearing date came, she and her dad went together
to Malaysia and Sage took the stand, giving an emotional
(43:35):
testimony about the ways she felt manipulated by her mother.
Sage didn't expect the way her mom's lawyers responded to
her testimony.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
During her testimony, they showed a picture of us happily,
you know, in a family gathering with us together. We're
all smiling in the picture, and they says, is this
looks like you're being abused or is this like a
pictures showing that you are abused, and of course you
look at the things you're just saying, no, I mean
I look happy, you know. But the reality is is
(44:08):
that what is in a picture doesn't show what's really
behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Being told literally to my face. Would someone who's being
abused look like this on a holiday vacation? Would someone
who's being abused be smiling like this? Your mom has
done this, this, and this humanitarian for the world, like
you're just lying.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
That contradiction between her humanitarian work and her family's lived
experience with her was also something Dan in Sage had
to come to terms with themselves.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
It's not always just a black and white someone is
good or evil. That you can have parts of you
that are good and it doesn't take away from the
fact that you can do something terrible.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
When Dan looks back on all the humanitarian work Fara
has done, he sees a pattern.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
In retrospect. It looks like she was doing a lot
of these right things for the wrong reasons. The right
things were like medicines to Iraq, you know, doing all
these wonderful things, but it wasn't for the reasons I
thought it was for the reasons that it got her attention.
(45:16):
It got her notoriety. That's what she loved.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
After the hearing, they waited for the ruling, and when
the decision came, they were shocked.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
They dismissed the case. How could that be? But they
didn't know why. I didn't know why it had been dismissed.
There was not a judgment, there was only a dismissal.
That's strange, is this never happens.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
Even Dan's attorney was confused. He'd been confident in their case.
An outright dismissal wasn't even on the radar, but the
court was saying Dan didn't even have a leg to
stand on.
Speaker 4 (45:57):
I just immediately said, that's wrong. Can't have this.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Dan's dad had been a judge. As a kid, he'd
sit in his dad's courtroom and bang the gavel. He
was raised to value justice and fairness, and when his
case in Malaysia was dismissed, he felt justice had been denied.
Speaker 4 (46:17):
The core part of that shock to me was that
they had completely ignored Sage's testimony. It basically said in there,
she's not believable. And this was like hit me to
the core. It's like, how could that be? You know,
this is not something that you ignore. I don't know, Sage,
(46:39):
how did that make you feel?
Speaker 2 (46:42):
That felt so degrading.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
I spoke the truth To then not be believed hurts
even more.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
Dan wanted to appeal the dismissal, but to move forward
he would have to pay fifty thousand dollars. They didn't
have that money, so Sage had an idea to start
a GoFundMe sharing their story and trying to fundraise for
the appeal fees.
Speaker 4 (47:12):
And I had to promote this go fundme thing to
my professional community. I'm sure I lost some respect because
people just maybe just didn't believe it.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
It was embarrassing for Dan. Sage helped write the fundraiser
page telling the story of what happened to their family. Trust,
friends and colleagues of Dan submitted testimonies about him. But
after they put up the page, Baras sent a letter
threatening to sue Dan for defamation.
Speaker 4 (47:42):
This letter was trying to silence me and trying to
literally prevent me from raising money to protect myself.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
I think initially when she sent the letter, my response
was put it in my name. Then she has to
sue me, and that looks worse, And then I think
we didn't even end up doing that because it's like
we're telling the truth.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
You actually don't get to keep silencing the story. Stop.
We're allowed to have our voices.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
In the end, they didn't raise the money they needed
for the appeal.
Speaker 4 (48:16):
I lost the appeal not on grounds, but on procedural
and it's like we didn't pay the money. He lost
the suit.
Speaker 3 (48:22):
There are safeguards in place in California, where Dan filed
for divorce. California imposes a temporary restraining order over financial
assets while divorce is pending. Those laws don't apply in Malaysia.
Dan worries that even if he can get access to
the trust again, the money may not be there anymore.
(48:44):
And the same goes for his cherished home in Malaysia.
Speaker 4 (48:47):
Not only did she put it up for sale in
January against those orders. I found out since that there's
a crypto site that sells real estate promoting the property.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
Today Dan's case is trapped in a thicket of international law.
It's been seven years since he discovered he was removed
from the family trust. It's meant Dan spent most of
his sixties locked out of his life savings. His late
dad had loved a safety deposit box with a few
thousand dollars worth of coins and stocks that Dan was
(49:19):
able to access.
Speaker 4 (49:21):
It was only because of that money that I was
able to depart Malaysia.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
He moved back to the US and found a cheap
apartment to rent and.
Speaker 4 (49:30):
Just kind of scraped by until I could apply for
Social Security. And then I lived basically on one thousand
dollars a month, and I have been ever since.
Speaker 3 (49:40):
For those first few years back in the US, Dan
was in a dark place. He felt like he'd failed
his children. He spent a lot of time reconnecting with
his daughter and grieving with her. These days, Stage is
no longer religious. While the decision to step away from
religion has been healthy and right for her, she knows
that Islam as a religion was never the problem. It
(50:02):
was a way that Fara used religion as a tool
of control to elevate herself, to demand obedience, and to
justify her behavior. The harm Fara caused was specific to her,
not to Islam. Going to therapy has helped Sage understand
those patterns in her mom's behavior. She's even brought her
dad to some of her therapy sessions for them to
(50:24):
process together.
Speaker 4 (50:26):
One of the things that I think was extremely positive
about this was that suddenly Sage and I could have
a relationship that was based on truth. We'd basically set
everything to each other about how we felt about each
other and understanding ourselves. I mean, there were things revealed
that Sage didn't know about me and me about her.
(50:49):
I heard that Sage had a crisis in BALI that
I was oblivious to. I was oblivious to partly because
of the hiding and the keeping things from me. But
I'm sad now because I wasn't there to recognize that
and to see it. And you know, I'm yeah, I'm
sorry that I wasn't there. There was kind of a
(51:12):
breaking of the silence and allowing us to, you know,
I could be a parent again.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
Getting to process that was really healing, because that anger
can then turn into forgiveness and the relationship that we
have now he's not just my dad, but we're also
really good friends.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
Their relationship today is incredibly strong. They live fifteen minutes
away from each other, They have breakfast together once a
week and walk Stage's dog on the beach.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
I think part of the healing too, is like just
getting to have a relationship that's not about any of
what we went through and having just fun and like
kind of a fresh start. He will design woodworking tables
for me and we'll go build it at the woodworking studio.
So we're making a dining table. Dat I sent you
(52:03):
the ones I like, And you have to make the
cat drives.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
You promise, I know, I know.
Speaker 4 (52:07):
We have to figure that out.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
And you're so good at building and crafting and creating.
Speaker 3 (52:13):
Anger and resentment just aren't in their nature. Even though
they experienced a life changing betrayal and a loss that
they might never see resolved, Dan wants to spend the
rest of his life focused on what he does have now,
which is a relationship with his kids.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
Justice is like a huge word for you that like
you want justice and you want and like what does
that look like? And I think the reality of where
we are now is it might not look like what
we wanted it to look like in our heads.
Speaker 4 (52:44):
Yeah, it may not be just. I mean that justice
doesn't have to exist. It sometimes doesn't.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
Well, I think, but I think it's more that it
like the justice that we have is that we have
this relationship, which is more valuable than any of the
money or any of the things, and she doesn't get
to have that. In many ways, I still love my
mom and I still have worry and concern for her,
(53:12):
and I think, damn it, I think that like.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
She's very lonely. Like that's sad.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
You know, she's pushed everyone away so much that she's alone,
and like what an awful Like underneath all of the
personality stuff that goes on is someone who's deeply alone.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
And probably I don't know, Like it's just I think.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
We're pretty cool, dad, and like getting to have this
relationship is actually more valuable than any of the money
or any of the things.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
And maybe that is justice.
Speaker 4 (53:55):
Now that I have my family back, literally my daughter
and my two kids, that is the thing that feels
just and feels right and feels like something that's been
denied and is now restored.
Speaker 3 (54:08):
We end every weekly episode with the same question, why
do you want to share your story?
Speaker 4 (54:14):
This is about transformation, right, How can I be better
as a result of the impact of this. I could
just swallow in it like I did for a long time,
But if we want a better world, we should build
a better world and design a better world. So I'd
like to go from an understanding of this betrayal to
(54:34):
building a blueprint for a better world.
Speaker 3 (54:38):
As for why Sage is telling the story with her dad, all.
Speaker 1 (54:41):
Of this is not to make her the devil, you know,
like it's That's not what the goal of this is
for any of us. It's more to be able to
share our experiences and be one hundred percent truthful. I'm
aware that she's not going to like it. She has
vilified him to so many communities, but I think getting
(55:05):
to see him tell his story matters, and getting to
have him get some sort of justice matters, and I
think part of that is being heard and believed. I'm
sorry he had to go through what he's going through
because he didn't deserve it. I hope that on the
other side of this is healing for him too, because
(55:28):
he deserves that.
Speaker 3 (55:34):
On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly.
Speaker 7 (55:38):
They had a recording that showed the hillside just calm, quiet, settled,
and then right after that it was the recording of
the same exact spot, the same exact house burning to
the ground.
Speaker 3 (56:00):
If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal
team or want to tell us your betrayal story, email
us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod
at gmail dot com, or follow us on Instagram at
Betrayal Pod. You can also connect with me on Instagram
at It's Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter, view additional content,
(56:22):
and connect with the Betrayal community, join our substack at
Betrayal dot substack dot com. We're grateful for your support.
One way to show support is by subscribing to our
show on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and
review Betrayal five star reviews go a long way. A
big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is
a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment
(56:45):
Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive
produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced
by me Andrea Gunning. This episode was written and produced
by Olivia Hewitt and Monique Leboord, with additional production from
Ben Fetterman, casting support from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team
(57:05):
is Ali Perry and Jessica Krincheck. Audio editing and mixing
by Matt del Vechio. Additional audio editing by Tanner Robbins.
Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bain's music library provided by
my Music. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
There was a safety deposit box in Malaysia that her
and I had the key to that was a secret
and I wasn't allowed to tell anyone that it existed.
And we'd like go put gold bars in this safety
deposit box that has the big vaulted door.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
It was like the slow burn to like, that wasn't
weird to me.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal. I show about
the people we trust the most and the deceptions that
change everything. Usually, each episode of Betrayal Weekly follows one
person's story, but today's episode is told by two members
of the same family, a father and daughter.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
The betrayal wasn't something that happened in a moment. It
happened over a long time, and I didn't even recognize
what was happening.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
That's Dan Kimball. He is a mild mannered Midwestern man
in his late sixties. He and his daughter Sage, had
their world shattered by the person they both trusted most.
Here's Sage.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
In my normal life.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I don't talk about this to my friends or my people,
except for some very close friends, because like, how do
you even start to tell this story?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
When we first reached out to them about telling their
story on Betrayal.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
To be honest. When I got that message from you,
I thought it was a.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Scam, But the title of our show caught his attention.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Betrayal. The word betrayal was the thing that kind of
struck my mind.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Our team spent months talking with Dan in Sage. They
went back and forth about if they wanted to use
their real names in this episode. After taking time to think,
they came back with a clear answer, If.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
We're telling the truth, what do we have to be
afraid of?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
We're going to start this story From Sage's perspective, she
grew up in picturesque Santa Barbara, California, in the nineties.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
At the time, it felt more like a hippie town.
You could do outdoorsy stuff. I have very fond memories
there of like finding bananas, lugs, and being outside.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Her parents are both eccentric citizen of the world types.
They originally met because of their mutual love of the
visionary architect and designer Buckminster Fuller.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
They met at Buckminster Fuller's birthday party and then they
were friends years before they ever were in a relationship.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Her dad, Dan, spent most of his life doing sustainable design,
working on cutting edge computer technology. He's the one who
nurtured her childhood curiosity.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
My dad would be curious about what I was interested in,
and then he'd get excited about it. I was really
obsessed with like space for a little bit, and he
built a planetarium with me, and like, let me go
on the street and like sell tickets for people to
like look.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Into my planetarium show.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Dan was a constant and gentle presence for Sage and
her mom Fara.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
She was affectionate. She would hug me, she would kiss me,
she would play with me, like outdoorsy things. She loved
doing with me.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
As a kid, Sage always wanted to be close to
her mom.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I felt like she was the thing that made me safe.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I couldn't exist without her, like I believed that I
wouldn't exist without her.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Fara was a Sufi Muslim. She came to the religion
as a teenager when her dad was working as a
diplomat in Iran. That's where Fara fell in love with Islam.
It became a part of her identity and she raised
her daughter's age in the faith.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
We all called ourselves Sufi's, which is a sect of
Islam have these like Sufi gatherings at our house with
like dancing. There would be like forty people coming over
and like I'd just get to like hang out. Those
Sufi parties were a lot of fun for Sage.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Growing up as a white Muslim girl in Santa Barbara
was a unique experience.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Friends would ask me, like, are you embarrassed to walk
around with your mom because she wore this. It's a
hit job, but it's also like a cape thing.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
People would ask me if my mom was a nun.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Her mom started wearing long white robes that looked like
a nun's habit. Dan sewed them for her by hand.
Sage was it embarrassed about her mom. She wanted to
be like her because her mom really lived out her values.
She was a peace activist.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
We'd go to a lot of anti war or peace
rallies when I was growing up.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I remember feeling.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Really cool that we were out there doing something about
the world.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Fara organized a movement to send medicine and supplies to
civilians in Iraq. Sage remembers watching her mom's work with pride.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
That was about five or so.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
My mom was going on a humanitarian aid trip where
a group of people were going to be breaking the
sanctions to deliver medicine and things to the people in Iraq.
That was a super cool thing that my mom did. Like,
that's so brave and so cool.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Dan was deeply involved in this movement too. It was
a family effort. The Kimbals were instrumental in raising millions
of dollars from medicine to be sent to children in Iraq.
As much as Sage loved her mom and wanted to
be just like her, Fara could be stern.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I remember from a very young age knowing that what
mom says goes like if you did something wrong, you
knew immediately to like get it together, and it almost
like your eyes changed.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Whenever Sage did something wrong, Fara taught her how to
make amends.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
My tactic from an early age was writing her a
note or a letter.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I'm going to see if I can find it. Actually, oh,
here it is. I found it. There's a part here
that says thank you for teaching me what Islam is.
I don't know where I would be today if not
for you, even though it may not seem like it now,
because I didn't live up to my duties or help
you out. I truly love you. You are the most
important person in the world to me.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Fara was often upset with Sage's dad Dan. Sage didn't
know why, but she wanted to help.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Once I was like eight nine ten, I learned that
I should try and fix it. So I would go
and talk to him, and then I would go and
relay information, and I would go tell him, here's what
you should do.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I know how to fix these problems.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Sage was confused by her parents' relationship.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
I never saw them be affectionate with each other. I
don't think I ever saw them kiss or like hug.
They said they really loved each other. But i'd see
like my friend's parents, and they'd be like arm around
each other or like holding hands.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Bara put pressure on Dan to bring in more money
for the family. That became a source of a lot
of their fights.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
At a certain point, my mom started saying that, well,
it's the man's job to provide, like I shouldn't have
to provide anything, because it was his job to make
sure that there was food on the table.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Their family was growing. When Sage was eight years old,
her parents had two more kids, twin boys.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I was pumped because I was like, great, even better
now I get two friends, not just one.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Money was a stressor. Dan had one unsuccessful tech startup
of his own, but he always landed on his feet.
At the time, he worked for an early micro computing
company doing user interface design. Plus, they were in the
middle of building their dream home in Santa Barbara. Bara
and Dan had been designing it together. It would be
(08:14):
a sustainable home that incorporated Islamic architecture.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
There was a house that we were trying to build
in Santa Barbara that got cut because it had a dome,
and people said that the dome was We're trying to
build a mosque.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
It was two thousand and five, a time when Islamophobia
was rampant in the US. Siege encountered it at school.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
I do remember that being like a Muslims or terrorists
like that being said, and me fighting with people about that.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Fara and Dan learned that it was one of their
neighbors who made Islamophobic comments about the design of their house.
It made them want to live in a place where
they weren't outsiders.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
I was in ninth grade at the time, and I
remember coming home and they were like boxes packed.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Fara wanted to move the family to a Muslim majority country.
Dan quit his job and planned to work remotely on
tech startups in Asia. A few months later, they went
to visit a family friend in Bali, Indonesia.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
And then we didn't leave.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
Bali's actually majority Hindu, but Fara felt comfortable there and
they found the perfect property.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
It was a big piece of land and there's a
river down below, and you look across like rice fields,
and you could see on a clear day like Mount Agun,
which is the big volcano in Bali, in the distance.
Like it was incredible, beautiful, beautiful, but at the time
it was just a piece of land. There was nothing
on it.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
The family packed up their whole lives, put most of
it in storage, and relocated to Bali. They got to
work building an estate complete with an organic garden and
a set of traditional Javanese villas.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
They're called Joe glows, and they're these really cool Indonesian
structures that are like no nails.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
The family came together with neighbors and friends to help
with the construction. They also started a main house where
the family would live. It was a huge undertaking, and
though she was fourteen sage knew her parents were taking
a big risk.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Buying that property was like everything we had, so like
you're putting all your eggs in that basket.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
To afford this piece of land and the construction costs,
Dan and Fara had used all of their resources. They
sold their property in Santa Barbara and put their savings,
including all the money Dan had inherited from his parents,
into the Bali property. Once it was completed, it would
be an oasis, a tropical paradise for their family, one
(10:53):
they could monetize. Fara had the idea to start a
raw foods business at the house in Bali, hosts tourists
and chefs who were leaders in the raw food movement.
It's a diet of mostly fruits, nuts, and vegetables.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Health and wellness was another big thing that she was into.
She got really into like raw food and actually made
the cookbook with like delicious raw food recipes. But like
there were always extremes in that.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
That year, Fara took stage on a solo trip to
visit a community run by women.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
There's an Indonesian tribe that's still a matriarchal society, which
it was actually really sick, like it was a very cool, beautiful,
peaceful society.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Stage was about fifteen after that trip to visit the
matriarchal society, Fara brought her daughter along more often, including
for business matters and important errands.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I've started going to banks with her to do banking things.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Around that same time, Fara began bringing the kids on
trips with her where she was buying gold bars.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
A gold bar.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I remember at the time it being like ten thousand
dollars and us going and getting like six gold bars
or something like that. This was also the time she
was getting into Alex Jones and like money and corruption.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Alex Jones is an American media host. He's built a
large following through commentary on politics, culture, and government institutions.
He's best known for promoting conspiracy theories and fear mongering
about economic collapse.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
I think that was where the influence to get the
gold came from, because it was like, this is where
how you keep your money safe.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Some of those trips are seered into stages memory, like
when they went to Singapore.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
We would go to Singapore to buy gold because it
was a good place to buy gold. And then she
would have me and my brothers put like you have
those like you know, those like travel bags that go
like under your clothes.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
She made it seem like it was a normal thing.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
She started talking to Stage more and more about finances,
and Fara told her these trips, the gold, the banking,
it was their secret.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
There was a.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Safety deposit box in Malaysia that her and I had
the key to. That was a secret and I wasn't
allowed to tell anyone that it existed. And like there's
like armed guards outside of this like safety deposit area,
and we'd like go put gold bars in this safety
deposit box that has the big vaulted door and like
a guard at the door.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
It was wild, but.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Like again it was like the slow burn too, Like
that wasn't weird to me.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Sage knew she wasn't allowed to question her mom.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
I was so intertwined with what she wanted. I don't
think I was even always told what I was doing.
I just did whatever she asked me to do.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Stage trusted in her mom connection to God.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
That was so central to how she parented me was
here's God, and then we're all serving God. The understanding
was that she's like a step below God. God is
speaking to her it was like, if you're going against her,
you're going against God.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Eventually, Bara let her daughter in on her plan. She
wanted to create a matriarchal financial structure within their own family.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
She's a feminist and she wants a matriarchal society and
the women should be in charge of the finances. That
was the first time I heard that, like, we are
going to do this matriarchal.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
Thing as part of this structure. Fara wanted Stage to
be the signatory on their family trust instead of her
dad or one of her brothers.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
When I became the signatory on that trust document, it
was because we were treating this like the women have
power over the finances, like it's going to be so progressive.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Sage was on board. She signed the documents her my
master too.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
The understanding was like, if you're a feminist or if
you care about women, you will also support this.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Fara explained to Sage that this had to be done
because she said their dad wasn't good with money. Bara
told the kids that Dan's job in tech startups wasn't
good enough.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
He'd go get investment in a company that he was
working on, and then she would say that investment isn't income.
That's stealing money from people for these businesses. And so
she would say to us that, like, your dad is
just swindling these people out of their money because he
won't get a job. And if he cared about you,
(15:55):
he would get a job.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
But it wasn't just Dan's job that was the problem.
She started telling the kids their dad didn't love them anymore.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
She would say to us that, like, your dad doesn't care.
He doesn't care about you. He's a dead bee. He
doesn't care about his kids. I know you love him,
but if he cared about you, he would be doing
something to protect you.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Dan was often traveling for work away from the house,
but whenever he was home.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I remember later on in my teenage years, my dad
was sleeping in literally this like outdoor shack. But it
was because I begged her not to kick him out.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Fully, Fara explained to the kids that she was scared
of Dan.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
She would ask me to be a witness if he
was talking to her because she wanted a witness when
he was abusive to her, like if I cared about her,
I'd be there to protect her. In that.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
By the time Stage left for college, she believed she
had to protect the family from her dad, and a
big part of that meant keeping the family money out
of his hands.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
The understanding was like, in order for us to have anything,
we have to make sure he doesn't have access to
these things because he's just going to squander it. And
my dad didn't know any of this, All.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Of this, from the trips to the bank to the
stories she told the kids, I.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
Was completely oblivious, and I think it was orchestrated that way.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
Once the Kimbals moved to Bali, Fara began acting differently.
She isolated her oldest daughter, Sage, and told her stories
about how her father didn't love her. It got in
Sage's head. Her mom started taking her to the bank
and asking her to sign documents. Now we're going to
hear Dan's perspective, starting from when they moved to Bali.
(18:15):
It's something that was difficult for him to revisit. Dan
Metfara when they were teenagers. They were friends for fifteen
years before they became a couple. They shared the same
core value wanting to make the world a better place, and.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
I appreciated that about her. Definitely very much a global thinker,
and she's a very charismatic person, I mean, a really
beautiful soul in many ways.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
By the time they got to Bali, they'd been married
for almost twenty years. Dan didn't share the same religious
zeal as Fara did, but he respected her values. So
when she said she wanted to move to Indonesia.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
The decision had already been made for me. Really, she
wanted to be in a Muslim culture, and you know,
I'm want to really complain. I was always wanting to
just go along with what we were trying to do.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Dan had been the breadwinner for most of their marriage.
Working in tech startups meant that sometimes he had a
high paying job and sometimes he was in between gigs,
but through it all he made sure the family was
okay financially. In fact, Dan had been the one managing
the couple's money since the beginning.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
I took over responsibility for all the finances. I just
made the books every month and just did it and
paid the bills. I kind of knew the QuickBooks and
putting it all together and working with the text people
and just getting it all organized. I don't think that
she had ever really had a desire to handle money stuff.
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Over the course of their marriage, Dan watched his wife
become more and more religious. She'd chosen her own name, Bara,
Religion became her whole life. By the time they got
to Bali.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
There was kind of a delusional nature to her describing herself.
She was so close to God that she could understand
things that were beyond my understanding.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
But Dan saw the value in living abroad. Once he
toured the property in Bali, he was sold afar his dream.
To make that happen financially.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
We moved all of our assets to Indonesia through we
started a company in Indonesia, so money would go to
this company. We have to have one Indonesian director, so
a good Indonesian friend was the director. My wife and
I were the other directors, and we owned a fifty
to fifty that Indonesian director didn't own any and most
of the assets then to buy the property were bought
(20:47):
through this company. We paid a huge down payment to
buy the property.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
It was a big financial risk, and it brought Dan
and Bara closer. They both believed in what they were building.
Takeet other in Bali, even if it meant pulling all
of their available resources.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Oftentimes people think, oh, you must have been so wealthy
to do all that stuff. No, we weren't. We just
were brave enough to go and do it right. I mean,
it was risky in the sense that we spent a
lot of money to buy that property, and but we
just we didn't mind living with that kind of risk.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
At the beginning of their move, the family had to
stay in a hotel for a couple weeks. There, Dan
noticed Fara was taken by the new lifestyle they could
afford abroad.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
We lived for quite a long time in this fancy hotel,
and I didn't know why we were staying there because
it was costing us too much money, and I was
kind of complaining about it. But she was very pushy
around money, like, you know, no, we're gonna do this.
We're going to spend the money and it takes to
do this. Of course, it's both it's all our money.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
That hotel stay was temporary. Dan was busy orchestrating and
designing the construction project. He was there for nearly every
step of the process.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
And we built it up into this beautiful little mini
resort which was all based on raw food, which is
a wonderful kind of niche for us, because anyone anywhere
in the world it was interested in raw food would
come to our place. It was the only place in
Bali that you could get raw food at the time,
and so we trained people in how to make raw food.
In fact, some of the people that went to these
(22:25):
New York raw food restaurants were trained by us.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Fara loved living in Bali. They both did.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
I just fell in love with Bali.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Once most of the construction was done, Dan started traveling
around Asia consulting for a series of tech startups. Stage
was finishing high school. The twin boys were in elementary school,
and Fara seemed to be pulling away from Dan every
time he came home from a business trip. Fara became
(22:56):
increasingly distant. After a year or two, I got to
the point that we.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Didn't have a relationship anymore. I mean we never slept together,
we never I was in separate quarters from her. But
I just went along with it.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Dan was under pressure to keep bringing in a steady income,
and he was scrambling to make that happen. He figured
it was normal for he and his wife to go
through stressful years where they drifted apart. The only thing
that bothered him was when Fara started taking the kids
on trips and telling Dan she didn't want him there.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
There was a lot of exclusion, like, okay, sage and
I are going to go to Indonesia though and buy
some more teak to try to find the teak for
the house, and you're going to stay here, right. It's
just like telling me what I had to do and
how I'm going to do it.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
This had been their dynamic for almost their whole marriage.
Fara called the shots and Dan was happy to go
along with her choices. But after they moved abroad, her
the choices began to exclude Dan.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
There are many vacations that they went on that I
didn't go on because I was pushed out of it.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
One of those trips, my wife.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Wanted to visit this community in Malaysia that is a
Muslim society where the women are in control of everything,
so it was of interest to her.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
A few months after that trip, Baras started taking an
interest in managing their finances herself. She told Dan she
wanted her own private bank account, and he didn't see
any issue with that. After about five years at the
raw Food resort in Indonesia, they were approached by a
land developer. He wanted to buy their land at a
(24:41):
premium stage. Was about to go off to college and
the twins were ten. The family was ready for a
new chapter, so they made the sale.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
We sold the property in Indonesia for three million dollars.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Dan and Bara put that money into a new family
trust that they established in Malaysia. That's where they would
be moving next. They'd had something similar in Indonesia, but
not with nearly this amount of money in it. So
the formation of this trust in Malaysia was a big deal.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
This notion of a trust was very important to us.
People have understood what it was, but the word trust
I don't think had the same meaning to her that
it had to me.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
For Dan, the family trust was about ensuring safety for
their kids' futures. It was for his and far As
future too. Like always, ownership of the trust would be
divided evenly.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
The company we created in Indonesia was fifty to fifty held.
The company that was created in Malaysia was held by
the trust, which we were co creators of. We were
named in the trust as co granters, and we moved
all the assets to Malaysia.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
When they sold their property in Bali. They'd actually sold
the land, not the houses they'd built. Those were theirs
if they could find a way to move them. The
big house had been a special project of Dan's.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
So then we decided, well, hey, let's bring the house
from Indonesia to Malaysia because we didn't want to start
from scratch.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Their plan was to deconstruct the house in Bali piece
by piece so they could rebuild it somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
We asked everybody from the village to come and help
us knock down these houses, and within three days they
tore it down and packed it all up. So a
few months later we had two giant shipping containers come
to us in Malaysia with our house.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
They found a piece of land in Malaysia where they
could reconstruct their dream home, and now they could afford
to take their time. They hired an architect who saw
their vision. The project became Dan and far As focus.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
We have lovely time design and building and working with
the architects, and like we're working on something other than us.
It wasn't about us, It was about this thing we
were doing together.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
When the house was completed, it was breathtaking picture a
jungle oasis with floor to ceiling windows and towering hand
carved doors, tropical plants, and natural light flooding every room.
And because it was the same structure they originally built
in Bali, it wasn't just beautiful, it was meaningful. The
(27:29):
house was a symbol of what their family could accomplish together.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
We rebuilt our property that this gorgeous place, into this
extraordinary house.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Once they got settled in Malaysia, Dan got back to work.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
During this time, I opened a kind of a consulting
company and I had some contracts with technology development work.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
One of his main contracts was in a city a
few hours away. But this time when he would come
home from work to ups, he experienced a new level
of isolation. It was as if the whole family was
giving him the silent treatment. When he asked Farah what
was going on, she said she didn't know what he
was talking about. So Dan responded by throwing himself into
(28:15):
work and building up his own social network.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
With lots of my friends and people that I built
relationships with, like this architect and our next stortabor. I
became good friends with them, but she never wanted to
even go over there.
Speaker 3 (28:29):
Dan was making enough for the family to live comfortably,
and he liked his work. Around this time, Dan was
offered a salary job. It paid a lot, but it
was a role he didn't want. When he brought it
up to Fara, she showed a renewed interest in Dan.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
My wife was pushing to try to get me to
take this job. When I told her I'd turned it down,
it was like she blew up. She was upset by this.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
This is when Dan first heard about her desire for
the women in the family to control the finances. You
heard Stage talk about that earlier in the episode. Stage
had been in on this for years, but she was
told not to talk about it with her dad, so
Dan was just learning about it in Malaysia.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Of course, it's both it's all our money, but she's
the one who's kind of now starting to control it.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
If it was important to Fara to control the finances,
he was okay with that. It gave him peace of mind,
knowing that the trust was still held fifty to fifty
with a friend of theirs serving as director. But after
Fara took over management of the family's daily spending, the
marriage deteriorated even further.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
And it was like very tumultuous time. She argued with
me and demanded that I move into the mataged quarters.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Dan didn't even know what he'd done to make his
wife so upset, but now he was always walking on eggshells, and.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
I thought we were still in love. This is where
I realized that love wasn't the same thing. Love was
transactional for her.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Now that the house was nearly completed, Dan felt like
he wasn't useful anymore.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
There was no need for me anymore. I felt like
I was Yeah, it was like good discard.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Around that time, Dan was on a business trip when
he was robbed.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Guys on a motorcycle went and grabbed my bag and
drove off with my computer and my passport and everything else.
Speaker 3 (30:31):
He had to call Fara and beg for her help.
Speaker 5 (30:34):
This issue of me needing to get enough money to
buy a computer that had been stolen, and what kind
of position had I got myself into to be so
subservient to funds that were ours, to thinking that I
had to beg for it.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
For Dan, this was an emotional breaking point.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
I realized, Hey, there's something seriously wrong here. There was
something that cracked.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Dan managed to get himself back home. But when he
arrived at the house.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
I go there, try my key. It doesn't work, and
I realized, oh, she's changed the key. The doors had
been locked, and I wasn't welcome anymore.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
With no other place to stay and no access to
their money, Dan started sleeping in a friend's car.
Speaker 4 (31:27):
During that time, I basically ran out of funds we
had playing joint funds, and she just wouldn't send any money.
And I felt suppressed from even asking. You know, I
was literally living out of a friend's car. I don't
(31:48):
think she thinks of it that way, but I was homeless.
It pushed me into homelessness.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Dan still believed that if he could just sit down
and talk with his wife, they could figure out a
path forward. It would probably mean divorce and separating their assets.
He just wanted to look her in the eye and
make the decision together.
Speaker 6 (32:10):
A few days later, I remember going to the house
once trying to see her and just talk with her
about this in just a very calm boy it just like,
what's going on?
Speaker 4 (32:23):
What do we do about this?
Speaker 3 (32:25):
He knew Fara went on a bike ride every morning,
so he waited for her by the front gate of
their house.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
She was riding a bicycle toward me and I was
there ready to greet her. She looked straight ahead and
acted as if I was a tree, just drove past
me without even glancing my direction.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
That moment when Fara passed him on the bicycle was
one of the last times Dan would ever see his wife,
because the next time he met with the accountants, you
learned something that would alter the rest of his life.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
I went there and we were going over the documents
and they said, well, the shares were transferred into your
wife's name. I said, what the shares were?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Chance?
Speaker 4 (33:15):
Those are the trust shairs that were transferred into my
wife's name. Is he I have done the state and
there's something And they were just daing as matter of
factly right. They showed me the documentation that said that
this is the transfer and I said, well, what about
the directorship and he says, yeah, well she was made
director too, and I was just I was just dumbfounded.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
At that meeting, Dan had been completely locked out of
their family trust.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
She only needed the approval of the trustee, so somehow
she talked to the trustee.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
The trustee was a friend of theirs who lived locally.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
I think She started to work on him and said, Okay,
I'm gonna I'm transferring all this stuff over into into
my name. I'm going to be the director now. And
he wish went and did it. He just signed the papers, thinking,
I mean that's what his claim was. Oh, it was
you know, she's your wife, you know, as she's all
been approved by her and you.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Dan had not approved for his half of the trust
shares to be transferred into his wife's name that gave
her sole access to their entire life savings, but he
hadn't signed any documents. He had no knowledge of this transfer.
Dan immediately called their friend who'd been the trustee.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
I just remember being outraged that he would do this
and how did this happen. We can't move on like this.
Change it back. It has to be corrected. And I
was absolutely adamant about it.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
But this isn't the kind of thing you can just
request to change back. There was a lot of red tape.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
I worked for months, literally most of the rest of
twenty seventeen. I talked to multiple attorneys about how do
we do this because it's already been signed over. I
talked to the trust attorney. He finally said to me. Listen,
You're gonna have to get an attorney to I can't
do anything because she's not going to agree to it,
and the trust he can't do it on his own.
And but you know, that's all kinds of crap.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Dan's life was on pause as he tried to educate
himself about international trust laws and marriage laws.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
My entire life savings are tied up in this, and
I'm literally penniless.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
If he wanted recourse, he would have to go through
the Malaysian court system.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
I'm going to have to file suit, and I'm going
to have to file suit against my wife and the
company that's in the trust. Even my daughter has to
be on the suit because she was the signatory to
the trust. It was just mind bendingly painful.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
For the final act of this story, we're going to
hear from both Dan and Sage, because what happened next
didn't just unfold around them. It happened between them.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Can I add on to that, Dad, Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
We wanted to bring them together to tell the end
of the story from their joint perspective.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Sage, your experience was very different than my own because
it comes from me being a husband rather than being
a daughter totally different, but yet the same thing happens.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Sage had been hearing horrible stories about her dad. They'd
been kept away from each other for so long that
they weren't living in the same reality.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
I was alienated from my dad for years because she
told me he wasn't trustworthy.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
When Dan was locked out of the house, Sage was
in college. She was barely speaking to her father at
the time. She only heard her mother's version of the story.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
When she changed the locks.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
She then was posing it at the time as like
he's trying to break in and being like, I'm terrified,
And I remember being angry at my dad, like leave
her alone because she's making it seem like he's trying
to like hurt her or something, and I never thought
he was capable of hurting her.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
After the trust was transferred out of his name, Dan
reached out to Sage to tell her what was going on.
That's when he began putting the pieces together about why
Sage was so distant.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
I didn't realize that I had been spoken ill love
for many years, and so that the impressions that I
got from my early discussions with Sage were that, Wow,
you don't know me.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Sage was twenty three and living in New York City
when her dad called her.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
He said, Hey, I want you to know I am
filing a lawsuit against your mom, but because you were
on that document, I also have to sue you.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
But it's like I'm going to cover your lawyer fees.
We're going to just get your statement and then.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
You'll be recused. He was talking to me about how
this was all going to work before doing it.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
But when Sage talked to her mom, she heard a
completely different story.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
It escalated to, like, why would you want to have
a relationship with my abuser? Like you're an abuser too
if you want to have a relationship with my abuser,
even if that person is your father.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Her mom's story was confusing to her. Sage had mediated
her parents' fights before, but she had never seen anything physical.
In fact, Sage's personal experience of her dad was that
he was a quiet and gentle guy.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
From the time I was born.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
He was gentle, and he listens in all of the fights.
The times when my mom would be crazy, he wouldn't
even raise his voice. I think I've heard him yell
twice in my life. I've never seen hurt an animal.
I've never seen him hurt anything.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
When he first came to her in crisis, Sage was
deeply conflicted about who to believe.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
I was like, I don't believe you.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Show me the proof, and seeing the proof of like,
here's this money that was given to me, here's this,
here's what we bought. A huge part of that was
his inheritance that even got us the house in Bali,
and I was starting to believe in him.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
But Sage still didn't want to be in the middle
of this. She tried to completely remove herself from the situation.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
I got like a notarized letter that was just like
this should be solved between my parents.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
I should have never been on this document.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
This notarized letter didn't change anything. She was legally implicated
in this.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
My dad was like, I don't want you to be
in the middle of it either, And you are in
the middle of it. And I would start listening to
him more. I was trained that he was so awful
that like, you're just lying to me. But I was like,
I want to know what his side is. So I listened,
(40:17):
and like we had a conversation where he told me
all the things like that were going on.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Then Fara came to stage with a new document, one
that would close the trust entirely and make it much
harder for her dad to ever access his life savings.
If she signed this piece of paper, she would be
taking a side. There'd be no going back stage. Didn't
want to be responsible for the millions of dollars in
shared assets her parents were fighting over, and she.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Was supposed to it as I just need your signature
on this thing, just need your one signature, and I
told her, no, I'm not going to sign it because
I don't want to be in the middle of this.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
But saying no to her mother was the red button.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
It felt like me choosing not to sign it was
me choosing to not have a relationship with her. I
could just sign it and then this would be over
and I wouldn't have to deal with this excruciating pain.
But I didn't, And that was like the first time
that she truly stopped speaking to me.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
And then came the call from her dad.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
He called me and was like, did you sign the document?
And I said no, I didn't. I promise you I
didn't sign the document and he was like, you didn't
sign here you one hundred percent sure, and I'm like,
I this was the hardest thing I've ever done in
my life.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
I'm one hundred percent sure.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
I didn't sign the document, and he was like, your
signature is on the document.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
I just told my dad again and again I didn't
do it, and he believed me.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Then how did her signature get on the document? Sage
felt like her own boundaries had been violated.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
And then I started therapy. Also, really really was the
thing that helped me process and understand and start to
gain clarity. It was through therapy that I started to
set boundaries with her, and then it's.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
Over Going to therapy helped Sage understand that her dynamic
with her mom was not normal, like how her mom
would react whenever Sage wasn't doing what she wanted.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
She would pretend she had a knife and she'd be like,
this is what you're doing to me, like stabbing her,
like it was awful.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
When Sage moved to New York, she began forming her
own identity separate from her mom. She started making new
friends and forming new ideas about the world. Instead of
being happy for her, far began ignoring Sage's calls and
distancing herself emotionally from Sage. Meanwhile, Dan's case moved forward,
(42:54):
a hearing was set in Malaysia, and Sage made a
decision she never.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Thought she would.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Ultimately, I decided to be involved in the court case.
I think it was also for myself because I think
there was something about that that was healing. To get
to finally say this happened to me in a public way.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Sage submitted a notarized epidavit to the Malaysian court declaring
that she did not sign for the revocation of the trust,
nor did she have any knowledge of the transfer of
the trust assets or knowledge of Bara becoming director. When
the hearing date came, she and her dad went together
to Malaysia and Sage took the stand, giving an emotional
(43:35):
testimony about the ways she felt manipulated by her mother.
Sage didn't expect the way her mom's lawyers responded to
her testimony.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
During her testimony, they showed a picture of us happily,
you know, in a family gathering with us together. We're
all smiling in the picture, and they says, is this
looks like you're being abused or is this like a
pictures showing that you are abused, and of course you
look at the things you're just saying, no, I mean
I look happy, you know. But the reality is is
(44:08):
that what is in a picture doesn't show what's really
behind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Being told literally to my face. Would someone who's being
abused look like this on a holiday vacation? Would someone
who's being abused be smiling like this? Your mom has
done this, this, and this humanitarian for the world, like
you're just lying.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
That contradiction between her humanitarian work and her family's lived
experience with her was also something Dan in Sage had
to come to terms with themselves.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
It's not always just a black and white someone is
good or evil. That you can have parts of you
that are good and it doesn't take away from the
fact that you can do something terrible.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
When Dan looks back on all the humanitarian work Fara
has done, he sees a pattern.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
In retrospect. It looks like she was doing a lot
of these right things for the wrong reasons. The right
things were like medicines to Iraq, you know, doing all
these wonderful things, but it wasn't for the reasons I
thought it was for the reasons that it got her attention.
(45:16):
It got her notoriety. That's what she loved.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
After the hearing, they waited for the ruling, and when
the decision came, they were shocked.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
They dismissed the case. How could that be? But they
didn't know why. I didn't know why it had been dismissed.
There was not a judgment, there was only a dismissal.
That's strange, is this never happens.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
Even Dan's attorney was confused. He'd been confident in their case.
An outright dismissal wasn't even on the radar, but the
court was saying Dan didn't even have a leg to
stand on.
Speaker 4 (45:57):
I just immediately said, that's wrong. Can't have this.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Dan's dad had been a judge. As a kid, he'd
sit in his dad's courtroom and bang the gavel. He
was raised to value justice and fairness, and when his
case in Malaysia was dismissed, he felt justice had been denied.
Speaker 4 (46:17):
The core part of that shock to me was that
they had completely ignored Sage's testimony. It basically said in there,
she's not believable. And this was like hit me to
the core. It's like, how could that be? You know,
this is not something that you ignore. I don't know, Sage,
(46:39):
how did that make you feel?
Speaker 2 (46:42):
That felt so degrading.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
I spoke the truth To then not be believed hurts
even more.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
Dan wanted to appeal the dismissal, but to move forward
he would have to pay fifty thousand dollars. They didn't
have that money, so Sage had an idea to start
a GoFundMe sharing their story and trying to fundraise for
the appeal fees.
Speaker 4 (47:12):
And I had to promote this go fundme thing to
my professional community. I'm sure I lost some respect because
people just maybe just didn't believe it.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
It was embarrassing for Dan. Sage helped write the fundraiser
page telling the story of what happened to their family. Trust,
friends and colleagues of Dan submitted testimonies about him. But
after they put up the page, Baras sent a letter
threatening to sue Dan for defamation.
Speaker 4 (47:42):
This letter was trying to silence me and trying to
literally prevent me from raising money to protect myself.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
I think initially when she sent the letter, my response
was put it in my name. Then she has to
sue me, and that looks worse, And then I think
we didn't even end up doing that because it's like
we're telling the truth.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
You actually don't get to keep silencing the story. Stop.
We're allowed to have our voices.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
In the end, they didn't raise the money they needed
for the appeal.
Speaker 4 (48:16):
I lost the appeal not on grounds, but on procedural
and it's like we didn't pay the money. He lost
the suit.
Speaker 3 (48:22):
There are safeguards in place in California, where Dan filed
for divorce. California imposes a temporary restraining order over financial
assets while divorce is pending. Those laws don't apply in Malaysia.
Dan worries that even if he can get access to
the trust again, the money may not be there anymore.
(48:44):
And the same goes for his cherished home in Malaysia.
Speaker 4 (48:47):
Not only did she put it up for sale in
January against those orders. I found out since that there's
a crypto site that sells real estate promoting the property.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
Today Dan's case is trapped in a thicket of international law.
It's been seven years since he discovered he was removed
from the family trust. It's meant Dan spent most of
his sixties locked out of his life savings. His late
dad had loved a safety deposit box with a few
thousand dollars worth of coins and stocks that Dan was
(49:19):
able to access.
Speaker 4 (49:21):
It was only because of that money that I was
able to depart Malaysia.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
He moved back to the US and found a cheap
apartment to rent and.
Speaker 4 (49:30):
Just kind of scraped by until I could apply for
Social Security. And then I lived basically on one thousand
dollars a month, and I have been ever since.
Speaker 3 (49:40):
For those first few years back in the US, Dan
was in a dark place. He felt like he'd failed
his children. He spent a lot of time reconnecting with
his daughter and grieving with her. These days, Stage is
no longer religious. While the decision to step away from
religion has been healthy and right for her, she knows
that Islam as a religion was never the problem. It
(50:02):
was a way that Fara used religion as a tool
of control to elevate herself, to demand obedience, and to
justify her behavior. The harm Fara caused was specific to her,
not to Islam. Going to therapy has helped Sage understand
those patterns in her mom's behavior. She's even brought her
dad to some of her therapy sessions for them to
(50:24):
process together.
Speaker 4 (50:26):
One of the things that I think was extremely positive
about this was that suddenly Sage and I could have
a relationship that was based on truth. We'd basically set
everything to each other about how we felt about each
other and understanding ourselves. I mean, there were things revealed
that Sage didn't know about me and me about her.
(50:49):
I heard that Sage had a crisis in BALI that
I was oblivious to. I was oblivious to partly because
of the hiding and the keeping things from me. But
I'm sad now because I wasn't there to recognize that
and to see it. And you know, I'm yeah, I'm
sorry that I wasn't there. There was kind of a
(51:12):
breaking of the silence and allowing us to, you know,
I could be a parent again.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
Getting to process that was really healing, because that anger
can then turn into forgiveness and the relationship that we
have now he's not just my dad, but we're also
really good friends.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
Their relationship today is incredibly strong. They live fifteen minutes
away from each other, They have breakfast together once a
week and walk Stage's dog on the beach.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
I think part of the healing too, is like just
getting to have a relationship that's not about any of
what we went through and having just fun and like
kind of a fresh start. He will design woodworking tables
for me and we'll go build it at the woodworking studio.
So we're making a dining table. Dat I sent you
(52:03):
the ones I like, And you have to make the
cat drives.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
You promise, I know, I know.
Speaker 4 (52:07):
We have to figure that out.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
And you're so good at building and crafting and creating.
Speaker 3 (52:13):
Anger and resentment just aren't in their nature. Even though
they experienced a life changing betrayal and a loss that
they might never see resolved, Dan wants to spend the
rest of his life focused on what he does have now,
which is a relationship with his kids.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
Justice is like a huge word for you that like
you want justice and you want and like what does
that look like? And I think the reality of where
we are now is it might not look like what
we wanted it to look like in our heads.
Speaker 4 (52:44):
Yeah, it may not be just. I mean that justice
doesn't have to exist. It sometimes doesn't.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
Well, I think, but I think it's more that it
like the justice that we have is that we have
this relationship, which is more valuable than any of the
money or any of the things, and she doesn't get
to have that. In many ways, I still love my
mom and I still have worry and concern for her,
(53:12):
and I think, damn it, I think that like.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
She's very lonely. Like that's sad.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
You know, she's pushed everyone away so much that she's alone,
and like what an awful Like underneath all of the
personality stuff that goes on is someone who's deeply alone.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
And probably I don't know, Like it's just I think.
Speaker 1 (53:41):
We're pretty cool, dad, and like getting to have this
relationship is actually more valuable than any of the money
or any of the things.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
And maybe that is justice.
Speaker 4 (53:55):
Now that I have my family back, literally my daughter
and my two kids, that is the thing that feels
just and feels right and feels like something that's been
denied and is now restored.
Speaker 3 (54:08):
We end every weekly episode with the same question, why
do you want to share your story?
Speaker 4 (54:14):
This is about transformation, right, How can I be better
as a result of the impact of this. I could
just swallow in it like I did for a long time,
But if we want a better world, we should build
a better world and design a better world. So I'd
like to go from an understanding of this betrayal to
(54:34):
building a blueprint for a better world.
Speaker 3 (54:38):
As for why Sage is telling the story with her dad, all.
Speaker 1 (54:41):
Of this is not to make her the devil, you know,
like it's That's not what the goal of this is
for any of us. It's more to be able to
share our experiences and be one hundred percent truthful. I'm
aware that she's not going to like it. She has
vilified him to so many communities, but I think getting
(55:05):
to see him tell his story matters, and getting to
have him get some sort of justice matters, and I
think part of that is being heard and believed. I'm
sorry he had to go through what he's going through
because he didn't deserve it. I hope that on the
other side of this is healing for him too, because
(55:28):
he deserves that.
Speaker 3 (55:34):
On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly.
Speaker 7 (55:38):
They had a recording that showed the hillside just calm, quiet, settled,
and then right after that it was the recording of
the same exact spot, the same exact house burning to
the ground.
Speaker 3 (56:00):
If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal
team or want to tell us your betrayal story, email
us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod
at gmail dot com, or follow us on Instagram at
Betrayal Pod. You can also connect with me on Instagram
at It's Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter, view additional content,
(56:22):
and connect with the Betrayal community, join our substack at
Betrayal dot substack dot com. We're grateful for your support.
One way to show support is by subscribing to our
show on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and
review Betrayal five star reviews go a long way. A
big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is
a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment
(56:45):
Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive
produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced
by me Andrea Gunning. This episode was written and produced
by Olivia Hewitt and Monique Leboord, with additional production from
Ben Fetterman, casting support from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team
(57:05):
is Ali Perry and Jessica Krincheck. Audio editing and mixing
by Matt del Vechio. Additional audio editing by Tanner Robbins.
Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bain's music library provided by
my Music. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Host
Andrea Gunning
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.