August 6, 2026 • 49 mins
Her girlfriend tells her she has nothing to worry about. Devon’s gut says otherwise.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everyone, we have some exciting news to share. ABC
News Studios has turned Caroline Brega's story from Betrayal season
four into a docuseriies. You'll get to meet the people involved,
You'll hear from people who have never spoken before, and
you get to see where this story took place. We
are so proud and excited to share it with you all.
Stream Betrayal Dirty Secrets now on Hulu or Hulu for
(00:22):
Disney Plus.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Looking back on my journaling of the whole relationship, it's
almost like watching a bad horror film where the protagonist
is like walking through the house being like hello, Hello,
is anyone here, and you're like screaming at the screen.
They're right behind you.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about
the people we trust the most, receptions that change everything
really quick. Before we get into the episode, I have
a small favor to ask you. If you're enjoying listening
to the trial, please take a second to hit the
follow button on your podcast app and please rate and review.
(01:16):
We read all the comments and your voices help our
show improve and evolve. I really mean it when I
say thank you for listening and helping us grow. Also,
if you went behind the scenes content or resources, follow
at Betrayal pod on Instagram or follow me at its
Andre gutting All right, onto the show. Devin grew up
(01:39):
in the Pacific Northwest. Her family's house was surrounded by
five acres of land, which made for a perfect playground
for Devin and her older sister.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
We would just disappear into the wilds of our backyard
for hours playing and come in when we heard a
bell to have a snack.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Her family had a farm complete with horses, chickens, and lamas.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
You could sell individual lamas for tens of thousands of dollars,
and so my mom started a lama business for income.
They would put me in a lama auction with the
lama to show how gentle it was, and I would
be leading this large animal around as a very small
child and just smiling. And I still remember the auctioneer
being like, I'm not I'll look at the big smile
(02:28):
on that child, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Devin and her sister were homeschooled all through elementary and
middle school. When she started ninth grade, her parents enrolled
her in their town's public high school.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I remember walking in and just beaming in every single
person I saw. I think people thought something was wrong
with me, but I was just so happy to be
around so many people, and I thrived In high school.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
She always participated in class discussions, but there was one
day in history class that felt different.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
We were having a debate about the Supreme Court case
between the Boy Scouts of America and Dale.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Boy Scouts of America versus Dale was a Supreme Court
case in two thousand. The Boy Scouts revoked James Dale's
membership when they found out he was gay.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
This was like big news at the time, and our
history teacher had us set up a debate to argue
for having gay people in Boy Scouts and against having
gay people in Boy Scouts. And I was the only
one in a class of thirty kids that was arguing
for gay people to be allowed to be in the
Boy Scouts.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
It wasn't an environment where Devin could comfortably explore who
she was. The message from her high school was clear,
fit in or be left behind.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
There were two gay people that I knew in high
school and both left because it was such a homophobic environment.
And so I was staying safe by winning people over
and not truly being my full self.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
After high school, Devin started college in a city a
few hours away. For the first time, she was surrounded
by people that cared about the same things she did.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I got deeply involved in women and gender studies, and
I ran the women's resource center with my best friend
at the time.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Devin finally felt comfortable enough to explore who she was
and what she wanted. She realized that she was queer.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I started exclusively dating women when I was a sophomore.
It wasn't a big deal. My family was pretty accepting
of it, which was pretty great.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
A few years after college, Devin moved to the Bay Area.
She got a job working in mental health services, but
outside of work, she didn't know anyone. She spent her
weekends by herself. It was a lonely start.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I was just alone in this new city with no friends,
and I just remember scrapbook and day drinking until I
got too lonely and needed to see other people, and
so I would go through store shopping or grocery shopping.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Eventually, she decided she needed to venture outside her comfort zone.
She was ready to put herself out there. She downloaded
the dating app okay Cupid, and soon she had plans
to meet up with the girl she met on the
app named Kai.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I remember walking up and seeing her, and I already
thought she was cute and met her by her motorcycle,
and I thought that was sexy that she drove motorcycle.
And she had this kind of strong physique which I
found very attractive. Had short hair, a lot of piercings,
some tattoos, and there was a mysterious vibe to her.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Devin and Kai went on a long walk, talking the
whole time. They weren't ready for the day to end.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
We ended up going into a bar and sitting side
by side and talking. The first date was six hours.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Devin's the kind of person who has always kept a journal,
and she has kept them to this day. She'll be
reading excerpts from them throughout this episode. Here's what she
wrote after her first date with Kai.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
She seems smart, very accomplished, intimidatingly so, super easy to
be around, very dynamic, a good listener, sexy, thoughtful, and
I found myself constantly laughing. She easily has the tools
to steal many a girl's heart.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
After their date, Kai sent Devin a text.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Saying that she loved my energy and sharing space with
me very West Coast thing to say to somebody.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Devin couldn't stop thinking of about Kai.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I was trying to get myself to focus on other things,
but I was so quickly infatuated.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
They went on two more dates that month.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I thought that pace was really healthy. I thought that
was a sign that we weren't moving quickly, and this
was developing in a really methodical, high trust way.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Spending time with Kai was always an adventure.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
We started kind of trapesing around the city that was beautiful,
riding her motorcycle everywhere, which was very special and fun.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Soon Kai invited Devin over to her place.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
The apartment was up on this big hill that had
a gorgeous view, and we had a really good time.
And she had a roommate named Melissa, and she said
that Melissa was also her best friend.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Kai had a lot of different hobbies.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
She was in school for engineering, and I thought that
that was really neat. She worked at a windsurfing shop,
so she actually taught kaiing and windsurfing.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
The more she saw of Kai's life, the more she
admired her.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I loved how she spoke about her friends. She was
very fun loving. She just seemed like she was really
engaged and involved in building a life that she loved,
and I admired that and I wanted to do that too.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Kai invited Devin into the life she built.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Because I had moved there and didn't have any friends,
She was also access to a community. All of her
friends were wonderful, and I also saw that as a
really positive sign. They were just these awesome, honest, intelligent,
dedicated people who were all passionate about different things, and
I loved her friends.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
The only person Kai seemed to have a tense relationship
with was her roommate, Melissa. Kai told Devin.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
They used to be really close, but that Melissa had
let her down in some really significant ways. So even
though I never met Melissa, I was at their apartment
a lot.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
They were all in their mid twenties. Almost everyone they
knew lived with roommates and had experience with some kind
of roommate drama, so Devin understood and sympathized with Kai.
A few months after their first date, Devin and Kai
decided they wanted to see each other exclusively. That night,
(09:28):
Devin wrote in her journal.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
The terms outlined are that we were only having sex
with each other, and if anything happens with someone else,
we let the other know. So we hadn't decided that
we were girlfriends yet, but we had decided that we
were exclusively having sex with one another.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Devin noticed that Kai kept talking about different girls she
dated in the past. It made Devin feel a little jealous,
so she brought it up to Kai.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
And Kai said, the reason I bring up exce's is
to examine what I learned from those relationships. And I
took that really well, because I'm somebody who always learns
and examines my own behavior, and so I actually thought
that that was really attractive that she was bringing it
up to see what she could learn from it.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Four months after their first date, they were ready to
define their relationship.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
We decided to be officially dating girlfriends. And that felt
really good to me. That felt healthy, that felt like
we were progressing in a mature way.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Devin was giddy. She and Kai started spending more and
more time together. Kai went out of her way to
plan romantic dates for devn.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
It was summer in this gorgeous city, and we went
to go see the Indigo girls up on this mountain,
and we went wine tasting, and we were motorcycling everywhere
we went, sailing.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Devin was falling in love. She wrote about everything she
was feeling for Kai in her journal.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I wrote, she is smart, funny, playful, kind, affectionate, exceedingly thoughtful,
a badass with a wealth of life experiences. We're very compatible.
I keep waiting for the moment when I stop enjoying
seeing her. I have to watch so that I don't
lose myself in her.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
It felt too good to be true.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I remember saying, how is it that I get to
have such a cool life right now?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Devin and Kai's relationship felt like a dream. They spent
their weekends roaming the Bay Area on Kai's motorcycle, going
to wine tastings, and hanging out with their friends. Kai
opened so many doors to adventure, love and community.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
She was a fun, loving person. She was always looking
for a good time, and as somebody who had been
very serious, that felt so tempting, That felt so exciting
to be involved in. We were just having a grand time,
just really enjoying life. I was just falling in love,
happy and living it up in the city.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
The only challenge in their relationship was that Kai was
often running late, but even with that.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
There were always really good reasons for why she was late.
You know, there was traffic on the bridge, or it
didn't feel safe to drive my motorcycle because I'd been drinking,
or you know, I was caught up in a really
serious conversation with her friend and I didn't want to
leave in the middle of it.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Every time Kai explained why she was late, Devin felt reassured.
She often felt bad for doubting Kai at all.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I got in my own head about why was I
so quick to assume the worst. You know, I just
need to relax, I wrote even in my journal. I
don't want to be needy if something's not seriously wrong,
but I do want her to communicate what's up.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
They'd been dating for over seven months now. Things were
getting more serious, more committed.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
We were planning trips together. She got to meet my family,
I started to meet her family.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Kai was crazy about her.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
She said all these things to me about how I'm
like the strongest, most intelligent woman she's ever dated, that
I'm sexy, that she thinks about me all the time.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
It was around this time that Kai moved out of
the apartment she had been renting with her roommate, Melissa.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
She and Melissa were having hard time, and she said
that she really needed to move out and get her
own place.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Kai seemed really distraught about the end of their friendship.
She and Melissa had been best friends for years before
moving in together. Devin spent long nights processing it with Kai.
Whenever Kai came over, Devin noticed that she stopped driving
her car. Instead she drove her motorcycle.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
When I asked her about it, she said that her
brother really needed a car, so she gave it to him,
and I thought that was really generous. Overall, I thought
Ki was really generous. She would buy drinks for everybody
at the bar or you know, just do these kind
of like elaborate generous gestures, which was very attractive to me.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
When they went out with their friends, Kai was the
life of the party.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
She was getting the rounds a drinks for people. She
was good to make you feel like the only person
in the room. People loved the attention they got from her,
just like I did.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Devin wanted Kai to be free to express herself and
didn't want her to dial back her personality, but sometimes
things felt like they were crossing a line.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I just remember how flirty and touchy she was with
her friends.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
When Devin brought this up, Kit always assured her that
she had nothing to be worried about, that the flirting
was totally one sided.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
She told Devin, I'm not attracted to so and so.
I don't have a crush on them. I'm only interested
in you. But they have a crush on me, and
I don't want to hurt their feelings, and so I'm
just going to flirt with them and it's completely harmless.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Devin trusted Kai, but seeing people flirt with her it
made Devin uncomfortable. When Kay's birthday rolled around, Devin planned
a surprise party and invited a bunch of her friends.
At the party, Devin noticed that one of Kay's friends
was being really flirty.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Like holding her hand and like touching her, and she
was kissing her on the cheek and she's kept saying
I love you Kai. She asked Kai to come into
the bathroom with her to help her change, and just
all stuff that seemed so inappropriate to me, and it
really pissed me off.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
This was clearly pushing boundaries.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
And I actually wrote my journal I was so pissed,
but it was her birthday and I didn't want to
ruin Kai's day. Kai wasn't contributing, and Kai said, she
is really touchy feely and it doesn't mean anything, especially
because she did it while I was there. I wanted
to address it, but Kai asked that I let it go.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Devin agreed, but she told Kai the way she was
acting with her friends was really starting to bother her.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I did start to have more doubts around this time,
but it still was more positive than negative. I still
had more hope that things could be fine, and we
just needed to communicate better and we could work it out.
And these were all misunderstandings.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Kai and Devin were good at working through conflicts together.
They were both emotional, intelligent people.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
So I felt good enough about our relationship that a
few months later I invited her to move in with me.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
At this point, they were almost a year into their relationship.
Kai moved in with Devin and brought her dog with her.
They were excited to take this step, but they wanted
to make sure they didn't merge every aspect of their
lives too quickly.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
When she moved in, there were actually three bedrooms and
we each took a bedroom. She had a bedroom, I
had a bedroom, and then we often slept in my bedroom,
and I wrote in my journal something about like it's
important that we maintain our separating identities, and that we
spent some nights.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Apart, eating dinner and talking about their days. She could
imagine a future with Kai. They made the place their
own and hung a picture of themselves in the front hallway.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
There was a big canvas picture of us kissing that
was displayed in our house.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
A few months into living together, Devine on a weekend
trip by herself. When she got back on Sunday night,
Devin immediately noticed something was different.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
The kissing picture was put in my bedroom, and when
I asked her about it, she said it had been
getting too much sun.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
This seemed like weird reasoning to Devin, so the next
day she brought it up to Kai again.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
She actually changed her story, and she had said she
noticed that I put it down, so that she assumed
I didn't want it displayed publicly and that it made
her sad.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Devin was confused. She knew she hadn't moved the picture, but.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
She was so adamant about it. Part of me started
to think, well, maybe maybe I did. Maybe I did
take the picture and move it over here, and now
she thinks that I am not proud of our relationship,
and she felt sad, and so she put it in
my room.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Either way, Kai assured Devin that she was just overthinking it.
She had nothing to worry about.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
She said, just know that I love you very much
and I respect value you. I wouldn't do anything to
jeopardize our relationship.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Kai was in school full time and was juggling multiple jobs.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
She spent a fair bit a time away from the house,
and I remember thinking at the time that I felt
like a nineteen fifties housewife because I was taking care
of her dog, and then we'd gotten a puppy, so
I was taking care of both of them and doing
my jobs, and she was just gone for twelve hours
a day. Often most of the cleaning was on me,
and the care of the house and the dogs was
(19:32):
on me.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Devin worked full time too. It was a lot to
keep up with, but she was happy to support Kai
in getting her degree and building a life she loved.
Summer rolled around and it was Pride month. Devin and
Kai made plans to attend the Pride Parade.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
We went to Pride with this new friend that she
had met, that she'd been spending a lot of time
with named s.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Before they went, Kai warned her that Sam was pretty flirty.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
She very clearly introduced Sam to me as a friend
who was very touchy feely, and that I shouldn't make
any meaning out of that.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
That day, Devin and Sam immediately clicked.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I really liked Sam, super charismatic, kind of like Kai,
very gregarious, very friendly, you know, good energy. Just wanted
to be around her.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
As the day went on, Devin noticed that Sam and
Kai seemed really close, especially considering Sam was a new friend.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
We're all drinking, We're all pretty tipsy.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
That night, Kai and Sam were inseparable. Every time Devin
looked over, she saw them giggling or holding hands. Sometimes
Kai was affectionate with her friends in a platonic way,
especially when she was drinking, but this felt different.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
That was one of the first times that I saw
their dynamic together and started to feel like something was
really off.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
It made Devon uncomfortable. After Pride, she brought it up
to Kai. She tried to set boundaries, but Kai told
her it was not a big deal.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
She said, Hey, that didn't mean anything. Sam is super
touchy feely. That's just how she is. She's just that
kind of person.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Devin wanted to believe her, but it was getting harder
to put her worries aside.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I was suspicious, I was concerned. I was increasingly mistrustful.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
After that conversation, Kai was unusually affectionate and supportive. She
kept telling Devin how special she was.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
All these sweet things like you're amazing, nobody's got shit
on you. You're the absolute best I've had by far.
I love you more than anything.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
But her insurance only did so much.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
And I started to feel more and more insecure in
the relationship. Devin wrote in her journal. God knows that
I love her, but I can't keep taking this.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
The fact that the three of them were always hanging
out together felt like a good sign. It's not like
Kai was trying to hide anything from her. I felt
like more of a boundaries issue than anything.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
There was one weekend when we had a whole bunch
of friends visiting. So I had friends from across the
country staying at our house and Kai had invited her friends,
including Sam, and we all went to this queer club
to go dancing, and we all got pretty tipsy, and
I remember Kai bringing up the idea of a threesome.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
A threesome Devin nearly choked on her drink.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And to be clear, the threesome that Kai wanted to
have was with Sam. It was kind of poised as, hey,
I want to be with somebody who's sextually opening this
way and wants to have a threesome. I said that
I wasn't interested. I didn't really want to do that.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
But then Ki pushed back. She said she wanted them
to have a new sexual experience together as a couple.
That was really important to her. And all of a sudden,
this wasn't about the threesome. It was about being the
person Kai wanted her to be.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
And I remember her almost yelling at me, I want
to be with somebody who wants to do that. I
felt super upset. I just burst out into tears and
I ran into the bathroom.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
This had never come up before, and Devin didn't have
any time to think it through because Kai didn't want
to wait. She wanted to do it that same night.
After that conversation, Kai floated away. They all kept drinking.
Soon everyone moved to the dance floor.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
And the next thing I remember, Sam was dancing with
me in a very sexual way that wasn't fully consensual
on my part, and I felt so awkward in that moment,
and I also didn't really know how to say no.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Finally, they all left the bar and headed back to
Devin and Kai's house. A bunch of their friends were
crashing at their place.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
We get home and next thing I know, Sam has
jumped into my bed where I was with Kai, and
then they just start having sex in front of me.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Devin felt pressured to join them.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Because Kai just made this huge deal about like, you're
not the person for me if you don't want to
do this.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
So she reluctantly went along with it.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I remember watching Sam go down on Kai and I
just had this like awareness hit me. This is not
the first time they've done this.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
One night, Devin's girlfriend Kai told her she wanted to
have a threesome with their friend Sam, and.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I felt immense pressure to go along with it.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
The next thing she knew, Sam joined her and Kai
in bed.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
There was just like this like weird vibe where it
felt as if it was almost like competitive, like who
is better at sex, but.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Then seeing Kai and Sam have sex, Devin had a
disturbing realization.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
The way that they were acting sexually together. It became
so obvious in that moment that that was not the
first time that they had had sex.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Devin felt sick and frozen.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
I can still feel in my body, it felt like
rocks in my stomach. And if I could turn back time,
I would have stood.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Up for myself then, but in the moment, she felt trapped.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
At some point it all stopped, and then we all
went to bed in the same bed, and I just remember,
like hardly sleeping that night. I just remember laying on
the pillow, kind of turned away from them, wondering what
I'd just done, what I'd just been a part of
questioning to myself, was I consenting? Was I not consenting?
I was super confused.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
The next day was a blur for Devin.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I felt completely dissociated.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Something was deeply wrong.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I'd seen something, but it felt very intimidating to address
what had just happened.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Her gut told her it wasn't safe to confront Kai directly.
She didn't have any proof Kai was cheating on her
with Sam, just her intuition even' suggested they try couple's therapy,
and she.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Did show up for a session, and I just remember
crying through the whole session, and my therapist afterwards, in
a session with just me, she said, I don't know
how much empathy she has, And hearing a professional say
that was really helpful to me, because then I started
to see things a little more clearly. I realized that
the relationship was not working for me.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Devin had a feeling Kai would not react well to
a breakup, so she decided to have the conversation in
a public place. She invited Kai to meet her at
a restaurant to talk. Once they were seated at their table,
Devin took a deep breath and told Kai.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I really love you. I really tried. I think we
both really tried. Our relationship's not working. I think we
need to break up. And her response was really short.
She just said, like okay, and then got on her
bike and left.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
It was jarring. Devin left the restaurant feeling uneasy. She
went back to their house, but Kai had gotten there first.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
She took a knife and slashed through a kissing picture
of us and had faced it out, So it was
the first thing that I saw when I came back
into the house. She took toilet paper rolls and dropped
them in all the toilets, and she wrote on our whiteboard,
I'll send my terms.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Devin didn't know if Kai was coming back. She waited anxiously.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I was really unsettled that night. I know she had left,
I didn't know where she went. I went into my
room and I brought a kitchen chair. I wedged the
chair up under the door handle, and I also brought
the kitchen knife in with me and put it under
my pillow. There was a part of me that didn't
think she would ever do anything to hurt me, But
then there was a part of me that really did
not know.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
The next day Kai returned, they thought about who would
move out, Devin or Kai. The truth was neither of
them could afford to move out right away. Devin couldn't
get away from the feeling that Kai had been lying
to her, so she started looking for proof. That's when
she found a handwritten note in Kai's room. It was
(29:13):
from Sam.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I actually found a love letter from Sam to Kai
that said that she wanted to grow old with her
and have their dreams come true. And I also found
a video of them making out from when I had
gone away for a day trip and they were in
(29:35):
our house making out.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Devin stared at the video and the love letter, stunned.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
It was almost like the dissonance that I had been
surviving under came crashing together in that moment. I just
started shaking. I didn't stop shaking for twelve hours.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Devin decided to confront Kai, already broken up, but she
needed to know the truth about what had been happening
between Kai and Sam.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
We sat on the white couch and then I just
showed her the video and then she was like, oh, well,
like we were just pretending you're you know, we were
play acting. And then once she realized I wasn't buying
those lies, then she changed it to that was the
only time. It was a mistake. That's all we did
was kiss and it was just that one time. At
(30:29):
that point, it was just offensive. I was like, do
you really think I'm not stupid?
Speaker 1 (30:34):
After that, Devin expected Kai to move out of her
own volition, but Kai refused to leave. What followed was
a month that Devin describes as one of the hardest
of her life. Kai was trying everything to get Devin
to stay with her. She was emotionally volatile, alternating between
extreme affection and manipulation. Devin was scared of her, but
(30:57):
she was also stuck living with her. She felt trapped.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Kai would fluctuate between trying to get me to stay
with her and even initiating sex, and in that month
I felt emotionally unsafe, physically unsafe, but I also felt
sexually unsafe.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Eventually, Kai decided to move out, but on the day
she came to pick up the last of her things,
she had a breakdown.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
She proposed to me on a whim and starts like crying,
and then very quickly changes her demeanor into this like
very angry, cold person. And then I hear this noise
and I look out the window and she's smashing her
guitar in the driveway. I got scared, and so I
locked the door, and she says, hey, I don't have
(31:47):
my keys. I need to come in and get my keys.
And I paused because I didn't feel safe, and then
she's like, no, no, I just need to come in
and get my keys, and so I unlocked the door
and she pushes it open and then she stands right
in front of me, and her eyes changed and they
got very cold, and she said, I didn't leave my keys.
(32:12):
I actually felt chills at that moment. I just I
knew she wasn't safe, and I knew if I poked
her in any way, I was not going to be safe.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Devin stayed calm until Kai finally left. When she was alone,
she slumped to the ground and began to cry. She'd
been with Kai for almost three years, but below the
sadness there was anger. Anger at Kai, and anger at Sam,
she had considered a friend. She decided to send Sam
(32:44):
a message, and.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
I said, I'm so hurt that you did this, that
you kind of inserted yourself into my relationship with Kai.
I don't know how you could do this to me
and pretend to be like a friend to me.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
It was cathartic to get some emotion out when she did.
I didn't hear from Sam for a few weeks. Devin
assumed that was the end of it. Months went by
until one day Devin got a notification.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
I get a message from Sam that says, thank you
for reaching out to me. Your message helped me listen
to my gut, and if you're willing to I'd like
to meet up and talk about a few things, because
I thought that I was Kai's only girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Devin reread the words, I thought I was Kai's only girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
I was shocked. What Kaya told me was that Sam
had inserted herself. She had orchestrated the threesome. It was
all her. She's touchy, flirty, you know. Kai wasn't even
attracted to her.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
But now it was becoming clear that was very far
from the truth. Devin and Sam had a lot to
talk about, so Devin invited her over to her place.
They split a bottle of wine, and for the first time,
Devin heard the story from Sam's perspective.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
The last ten months of my relationship with Kai, when
we were still living together and I thought exclusive and monogamous.
Sam was also dating Kai and thought that they were
exclusive and monogamous. Kai had maintained both of us as
her girlfriend, and we both thought we were her only
(34:25):
girlfriend for ten months. At that point, the rage just
set in. My blood started to boil because I thought
that I had understood the depth of the betrayal, but
I hadn't.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
It turns out Kai had been pretending that Devin was
her ex girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Kai had told Sam that she couldn't afford to move
out yet, and that's why we had different rooms, that
we weren't girlfriends anymore, and that supposedly the reason that
we'd broken up was that I had cheated on her
with my best friend. The audacity of that lie incensed me.
I was infuriated that she would make me out to
(35:09):
be the villain.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Most people, when they're cheating, go to great lengths to
keep their partners away from each other, but Kai did
the opposite. She brought Devin and Sam together as often
as she could, even instigating the threesome. She seemed to
enjoy the power that came with being the only one
in the know. The more they talked, the more they
(35:33):
discovered just how organized and systematic Kai was in her deception.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Kai had actually sinked both of our Google calendars up
to her calendar, so she knew where both of us
were at any given time, so she could figure out
when Sam could be over at the house for them
to have sex and you not walk in on them.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
It just kept getting worse and worse.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
I'd stopped being hurt. I was just pissed.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Devin and Sam realized they'd both been lied to. So
they decided to work together to expose Kai.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
I think that that helped reclaim a sense of empowerment.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
If Kai was so willing to lie to both of them,
what else was she hiding? Devin and Sam went into
investigation mode.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
I wanted to get to the truth. So what I
did after meeting with Sam was I actually reached out
to everybody that knew Kai and asked if they'd be
willing to meet with me.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Many of Kai's friends agreed. Devin met with them one
by one. Slowly she began to piece together the full
picture of Kai's deception. Kai had been lying to Devin
from the very beginning, starting with the story she told
her about Melissa.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
They had been living together as girlfriends when Kai had
started pursuing me. Kai would tell Melissa that I was
a student at her college, and she said we were
in the same class together and that she was going
to go study with me.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Devin had comforted Kai through the end of her friendship
with Melissa, but now Devin realized that hadn't been a
friendship gone wrong. It was a breakup and the.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Car that she would drive was Melissa's car, So when
it disappeared and Kai told me she'd given it to
her brother in this generous gift she hadn't given to anybody.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Kai was following a script, telling each new woman she
was pursuing that her long term girlfriend was just a roommate,
and she told her long term girlfriend that the women
she was pursuing were just friends. When her long term
relationship crumbled, she moved in with a new woman and
repeated the cycle.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
I really started to see this pattern that she had
been using for years, most likely before even Melissa. What
I was going on with her was deef seated and
cyclical and not going to change.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
As Devin and Sam continued reaching out to Kai's old friends,
they found out a lot of them weren't just friends.
They'd been hooking up with Kai too.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
She had been having sex with a number of other
people while both of us had been dating her.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Devin was able to confirm evidence of Kai cheating on
her with four other women, though she suspects it's upwards
of nine.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Kai actually brought them not only to our house, but
into my bed and used our sex toys. It made
my skin crawl. It just felt so violating and so unsafe.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Kai put Devin's sexual health at risk.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I was really concerned. I remember scheduling a full sexual
health checkup once I found out I did have a
PAP that tested abnormal after this experience, and fortunately it
resolved itself after about a year. It felt like an
additional betrayal.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Devin thought back to the quirks and Kai's behavior that
she'd brushed aside, like how Kai was always running late,
or why she'd taken down that photo of them kissing
while Devin was out of town. Now it made sense
Kai had other women coming over to their house when
Devin wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
She just had all of these like flings while she
also had these ongoing relationships, So she was good at this.
She'd been doing this for a long time.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Devin and Sam were so outraged they decided to go
straight to the source of all the chaos.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
We actually confronted Kai together. We called her while we
were together, and she picks up the phone and she's like,
oh hey, Like no emotion, no nothing.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
They told Kai they knew what she'd done to them.
They knew about her pattern of pretending her girlfriend was
her roommate while she courted someone new, all the people
she cheated with, and all the lies she told to
cover it all up. They knew everything.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
The reaction that I think we might have been hoping
for was some sort of remorse or some sort of accountability,
and just nothing. It was almost like this chess game
and it was checkmate, and she didn't really care that
we figured it out. At that point, we both got
really pissed. We were just chess pieces to her. It
(40:37):
almost felt like I stepped out of my real life
and I was in a movie about a con artist
or something.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Kai was already onto her next girlfriend. She didn't need
Devin or Sam. Then it dawned on Devin. For Ki,
this wasn't about love. It was about convenience. Kai had
a rotating cast of way and helping take care of
her needs. It was like musical chairs, and she didn't
seem to care where she landed.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
I think her con was actually like getting her dog
taken care of, having somebody who's buying groceries, having somebody
who is maintaining a stable household that she could come
and go from.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Kai would let her girlfriends cook for her, clean up
after her, and drive her around.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
It was about having her other needs met, but it
was also about having a very respectable looking life so
that she could go out and do the stuff she
really wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
While Kai's girlfriends kept her life afloat, she secretly destroyed theirs.
Devin and Sam wanted to break Kai's pattern. Clearly, Kai
herself was not interested in that, but there was one
more person that Devin and Sam knew would be interested
in the information they'd gathered Kai's knew girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Sam knew who her next person was because she had
talked about this new person a lot, and neither of
us had her contact information, so we actually reached out
on LinkedIn, so it was like a few characters. It
was like, you know, she's not who she says she is.
She dated multiple people at once, call me if you
want any information. Devin hits end crickets for months, and
(42:23):
then finally I got a message back from her and
she was like, Hey, I really appreciate you reaching out,
and it helped me listen to my gut more quickly
and end it with Kai. And I don't think I
would have seen that so quickly without you.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
It was meaningful to know that they had protected someone
from Kai's cycle of deception. It felt like the natural
end of Devin's investigation now came the next step her
own healing.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
You know, looking back on my journaling of the whole relationship,
it's almost like watching a bad horror film where the
protagonist is like walking through the house being like hello, Hello,
is anyone here? You know, and you're like screaming at
the screen. They're right behind you.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Devin began untangling her life and identity from Kai. She
invested her energy back into herself, her friendships, and her work.
For years, she told herself that the threesome with Sam
and Kai was not a big deal and rationalized her
own discomfort away. But as time went on, she started
to be honest about the impact it had on her.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
I started to perceive it the way I really experienced it,
which was not consensually, which was very high on the
coercion scale, a lot of alcohol involved, My people, pleasing
was at an all time max. I recognized that it
was trauma, and I did do EMDR specifically around that
(43:50):
traumatic event. And I remember when she started, they have
you do a scale of one to ten in terms
of activation, and it was a ten. My body went
back to that place of feeling powerless and kind of
trapped and by the end of the session we had
it down to a three. I'm really grateful that I
had the courage to go back into it and try
(44:12):
to shift that trauma so it wouldn't live on in
me with too much power.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
One day, a couple of years later, Devan was waiting
for the subway when she looked up and saw Kai.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I saw her, and she saw me, and she walked
away from me to the next car. And that felt empowering,
like this person who I had been scared of, who
I gave so much power to and so much control
to for such a long time, wasn't going to try
to manipulate me anymore. I didn't even want to approach
(44:50):
me anymore.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
When Kai left their apartment for the last time, she
said something to Devin that echoed in her brain for years.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
She said to me, nobody's ever going to love you
like I do. And for a moment I questioned if
she was right, like I didn't know what a healthy
relationship looked, or felt like maybe that was the best
I was going to get. And then I had just
had this strong, strong, no take over my body.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Like always, She used her journal to help her envision
the kind of relationship she did want.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
I wrote, I will have a healthy, loving partnership with
someone I love and I trust we will communicate and
seek to know each other deeply. She's out there. I
just have to stay on the path and let the
universe know that I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
It's been over a decade since Devin's relationship with Kai. Today,
Devin has that loving partnership she imagined.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
I found her. I found her, and I have a
six month old baby, and if I listened to what
Kai said back then, I wouldn't have and I'm very
grateful to have the life that I have now.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
We end every weekly episode with the same question, why
do you want to share your story?
Speaker 2 (46:07):
It takes a lot for me to get to a
place of anger, but I will have my own back
when it comes down to it. I think as women,
we are socialized to doubt ourselves and to go along
to get along. This experience was an invitation to really
learn to trust myself. I learned what the feeling of
(46:31):
intuition is in my body, and I also learned how
bad it feels to shove it down.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly, I.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
Just felt like all the breath had been stolen out
of my body? How do we have these completely differ,
diferent stories? Do I have my own story wrong?
Speaker 1 (47:09):
If you'd like to share your story on Betrayal, please
email Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That is Betrayal Pod
at gmail dot com. Please note that we are not
a mental health organization. If you are in crisis or
currently experiencing domestic violence, we encourage you to seek local
(47:30):
help or dial nine to one one. Please contact organizations
that offer immediate support. In our show notes, we've included
a list of US based resources. You can follow us
on Instagram at betrayal Pod or find me at It's
Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter and additional content, and
to connect with the Betrayal community, join our substack at
(47:54):
Betrayal dot substack dot com. We're grateful for your support.
One way to show support is by subscribing to our
show on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and
review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. Big
thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a
production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group,
(48:15):
in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced
by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by
me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Olivia Hewitt. Our
story editor is Monique Lebord, also produced by Ben Fetterman.
Our associate producer is Leah Jablo. Production management by Kristin Melcurie,
(48:37):
Booking support by Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ali
Perry and Jessica Crimecheck. Audio editing by Tanner Robbins with
additional editing and mixing by Matt Delbecchio. Betrayal's theme composed
by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by my Music And
For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
(48:59):
or wherever you get your podcasts,
Hi, everyone, we have some exciting news to share. ABC
News Studios has turned Caroline Brega's story from Betrayal season
four into a docuseriies. You'll get to meet the people involved,
You'll hear from people who have never spoken before, and
you get to see where this story took place. We
are so proud and excited to share it with you all.
Stream Betrayal Dirty Secrets now on Hulu or Hulu for
(00:22):
Disney Plus.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Looking back on my journaling of the whole relationship, it's
almost like watching a bad horror film where the protagonist
is like walking through the house being like hello, Hello,
is anyone here, and you're like screaming at the screen.
They're right behind you.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about
the people we trust the most, receptions that change everything
really quick. Before we get into the episode, I have
a small favor to ask you. If you're enjoying listening
to the trial, please take a second to hit the
follow button on your podcast app and please rate and review.
(01:16):
We read all the comments and your voices help our
show improve and evolve. I really mean it when I
say thank you for listening and helping us grow. Also,
if you went behind the scenes content or resources, follow
at Betrayal pod on Instagram or follow me at its
Andre gutting All right, onto the show. Devin grew up
(01:39):
in the Pacific Northwest. Her family's house was surrounded by
five acres of land, which made for a perfect playground
for Devin and her older sister.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
We would just disappear into the wilds of our backyard
for hours playing and come in when we heard a
bell to have a snack.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Her family had a farm complete with horses, chickens, and lamas.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
You could sell individual lamas for tens of thousands of dollars,
and so my mom started a lama business for income.
They would put me in a lama auction with the
lama to show how gentle it was, and I would
be leading this large animal around as a very small
child and just smiling. And I still remember the auctioneer
being like, I'm not I'll look at the big smile
(02:28):
on that child, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Devin and her sister were homeschooled all through elementary and
middle school. When she started ninth grade, her parents enrolled
her in their town's public high school.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I remember walking in and just beaming in every single
person I saw. I think people thought something was wrong
with me, but I was just so happy to be
around so many people, and I thrived In high school.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
She always participated in class discussions, but there was one
day in history class that felt different.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
We were having a debate about the Supreme Court case
between the Boy Scouts of America and Dale.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Boy Scouts of America versus Dale was a Supreme Court
case in two thousand. The Boy Scouts revoked James Dale's
membership when they found out he was gay.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
This was like big news at the time, and our
history teacher had us set up a debate to argue
for having gay people in Boy Scouts and against having
gay people in Boy Scouts. And I was the only
one in a class of thirty kids that was arguing
for gay people to be allowed to be in the
Boy Scouts.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
It wasn't an environment where Devin could comfortably explore who
she was. The message from her high school was clear,
fit in or be left behind.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
There were two gay people that I knew in high
school and both left because it was such a homophobic environment.
And so I was staying safe by winning people over
and not truly being my full self.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
After high school, Devin started college in a city a
few hours away. For the first time, she was surrounded
by people that cared about the same things she did.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
I got deeply involved in women and gender studies, and
I ran the women's resource center with my best friend
at the time.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Devin finally felt comfortable enough to explore who she was
and what she wanted. She realized that she was queer.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
I started exclusively dating women when I was a sophomore.
It wasn't a big deal. My family was pretty accepting
of it, which was pretty great.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
A few years after college, Devin moved to the Bay Area.
She got a job working in mental health services, but
outside of work, she didn't know anyone. She spent her
weekends by herself. It was a lonely start.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I was just alone in this new city with no friends,
and I just remember scrapbook and day drinking until I
got too lonely and needed to see other people, and
so I would go through store shopping or grocery shopping.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Eventually, she decided she needed to venture outside her comfort zone.
She was ready to put herself out there. She downloaded
the dating app okay Cupid, and soon she had plans
to meet up with the girl she met on the
app named Kai.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I remember walking up and seeing her, and I already
thought she was cute and met her by her motorcycle,
and I thought that was sexy that she drove motorcycle.
And she had this kind of strong physique which I
found very attractive. Had short hair, a lot of piercings,
some tattoos, and there was a mysterious vibe to her.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Devin and Kai went on a long walk, talking the
whole time. They weren't ready for the day to end.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
We ended up going into a bar and sitting side
by side and talking. The first date was six hours.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Devin's the kind of person who has always kept a journal,
and she has kept them to this day. She'll be
reading excerpts from them throughout this episode. Here's what she
wrote after her first date with Kai.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
She seems smart, very accomplished, intimidatingly so, super easy to
be around, very dynamic, a good listener, sexy, thoughtful, and
I found myself constantly laughing. She easily has the tools
to steal many a girl's heart.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
After their date, Kai sent Devin a text.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Saying that she loved my energy and sharing space with
me very West Coast thing to say to somebody.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Devin couldn't stop thinking of about Kai.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I was trying to get myself to focus on other things,
but I was so quickly infatuated.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
They went on two more dates that month.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
I thought that pace was really healthy. I thought that
was a sign that we weren't moving quickly, and this
was developing in a really methodical, high trust way.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Spending time with Kai was always an adventure.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
We started kind of trapesing around the city that was beautiful,
riding her motorcycle everywhere, which was very special and fun.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Soon Kai invited Devin over to her place.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
The apartment was up on this big hill that had
a gorgeous view, and we had a really good time.
And she had a roommate named Melissa, and she said
that Melissa was also her best friend.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Kai had a lot of different hobbies.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
She was in school for engineering, and I thought that
that was really neat. She worked at a windsurfing shop,
so she actually taught kaiing and windsurfing.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
The more she saw of Kai's life, the more she
admired her.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I loved how she spoke about her friends. She was
very fun loving. She just seemed like she was really
engaged and involved in building a life that she loved,
and I admired that and I wanted to do that too.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Kai invited Devin into the life she built.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Because I had moved there and didn't have any friends,
She was also access to a community. All of her
friends were wonderful, and I also saw that as a
really positive sign. They were just these awesome, honest, intelligent,
dedicated people who were all passionate about different things, and
I loved her friends.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
The only person Kai seemed to have a tense relationship
with was her roommate, Melissa. Kai told Devin.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
They used to be really close, but that Melissa had
let her down in some really significant ways. So even
though I never met Melissa, I was at their apartment
a lot.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
They were all in their mid twenties. Almost everyone they
knew lived with roommates and had experience with some kind
of roommate drama, so Devin understood and sympathized with Kai.
A few months after their first date, Devin and Kai
decided they wanted to see each other exclusively. That night,
(09:28):
Devin wrote in her journal.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
The terms outlined are that we were only having sex
with each other, and if anything happens with someone else,
we let the other know. So we hadn't decided that
we were girlfriends yet, but we had decided that we
were exclusively having sex with one another.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Devin noticed that Kai kept talking about different girls she
dated in the past. It made Devin feel a little jealous,
so she brought it up to Kai.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
And Kai said, the reason I bring up exce's is
to examine what I learned from those relationships. And I
took that really well, because I'm somebody who always learns
and examines my own behavior, and so I actually thought
that that was really attractive that she was bringing it
up to see what she could learn from it.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Four months after their first date, they were ready to
define their relationship.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
We decided to be officially dating girlfriends. And that felt
really good to me. That felt healthy, that felt like
we were progressing in a mature way.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
Devin was giddy. She and Kai started spending more and
more time together. Kai went out of her way to
plan romantic dates for devn.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
It was summer in this gorgeous city, and we went
to go see the Indigo girls up on this mountain,
and we went wine tasting, and we were motorcycling everywhere
we went, sailing.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Devin was falling in love. She wrote about everything she
was feeling for Kai in her journal.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I wrote, she is smart, funny, playful, kind, affectionate, exceedingly thoughtful,
a badass with a wealth of life experiences. We're very compatible.
I keep waiting for the moment when I stop enjoying
seeing her. I have to watch so that I don't
lose myself in her.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
It felt too good to be true.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I remember saying, how is it that I get to
have such a cool life right now?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Devin and Kai's relationship felt like a dream. They spent
their weekends roaming the Bay Area on Kai's motorcycle, going
to wine tastings, and hanging out with their friends. Kai
opened so many doors to adventure, love and community.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
She was a fun, loving person. She was always looking
for a good time, and as somebody who had been
very serious, that felt so tempting, That felt so exciting
to be involved in. We were just having a grand time,
just really enjoying life. I was just falling in love,
happy and living it up in the city.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
The only challenge in their relationship was that Kai was
often running late, but even with that.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
There were always really good reasons for why she was late.
You know, there was traffic on the bridge, or it
didn't feel safe to drive my motorcycle because I'd been drinking,
or you know, I was caught up in a really
serious conversation with her friend and I didn't want to
leave in the middle of it.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Every time Kai explained why she was late, Devin felt reassured.
She often felt bad for doubting Kai at all.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I got in my own head about why was I
so quick to assume the worst. You know, I just
need to relax, I wrote even in my journal. I
don't want to be needy if something's not seriously wrong,
but I do want her to communicate what's up.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
They'd been dating for over seven months now. Things were
getting more serious, more committed.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
We were planning trips together. She got to meet my family,
I started to meet her family.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Kai was crazy about her.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
She said all these things to me about how I'm
like the strongest, most intelligent woman she's ever dated, that
I'm sexy, that she thinks about me all the time.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
It was around this time that Kai moved out of
the apartment she had been renting with her roommate, Melissa.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
She and Melissa were having hard time, and she said
that she really needed to move out and get her
own place.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Kai seemed really distraught about the end of their friendship.
She and Melissa had been best friends for years before
moving in together. Devin spent long nights processing it with Kai.
Whenever Kai came over, Devin noticed that she stopped driving
her car. Instead she drove her motorcycle.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
When I asked her about it, she said that her
brother really needed a car, so she gave it to him,
and I thought that was really generous. Overall, I thought
Ki was really generous. She would buy drinks for everybody
at the bar or you know, just do these kind
of like elaborate generous gestures, which was very attractive to me.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
When they went out with their friends, Kai was the
life of the party.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
She was getting the rounds a drinks for people. She
was good to make you feel like the only person
in the room. People loved the attention they got from her,
just like I did.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Devin wanted Kai to be free to express herself and
didn't want her to dial back her personality, but sometimes
things felt like they were crossing a line.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
I just remember how flirty and touchy she was with
her friends.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
When Devin brought this up, Kit always assured her that
she had nothing to be worried about, that the flirting
was totally one sided.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
She told Devin, I'm not attracted to so and so.
I don't have a crush on them. I'm only interested
in you. But they have a crush on me, and
I don't want to hurt their feelings, and so I'm
just going to flirt with them and it's completely harmless.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Devin trusted Kai, but seeing people flirt with her it
made Devin uncomfortable. When Kay's birthday rolled around, Devin planned
a surprise party and invited a bunch of her friends.
At the party, Devin noticed that one of Kay's friends
was being really flirty.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Like holding her hand and like touching her, and she
was kissing her on the cheek and she's kept saying
I love you Kai. She asked Kai to come into
the bathroom with her to help her change, and just
all stuff that seemed so inappropriate to me, and it
really pissed me off.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
This was clearly pushing boundaries.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
And I actually wrote my journal I was so pissed,
but it was her birthday and I didn't want to
ruin Kai's day. Kai wasn't contributing, and Kai said, she
is really touchy feely and it doesn't mean anything, especially
because she did it while I was there. I wanted
to address it, but Kai asked that I let it go.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Devin agreed, but she told Kai the way she was
acting with her friends was really starting to bother her.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I did start to have more doubts around this time,
but it still was more positive than negative. I still
had more hope that things could be fine, and we
just needed to communicate better and we could work it out.
And these were all misunderstandings.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Kai and Devin were good at working through conflicts together.
They were both emotional, intelligent people.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
So I felt good enough about our relationship that a
few months later I invited her to move in with me.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
At this point, they were almost a year into their relationship.
Kai moved in with Devin and brought her dog with her.
They were excited to take this step, but they wanted
to make sure they didn't merge every aspect of their
lives too quickly.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
When she moved in, there were actually three bedrooms and
we each took a bedroom. She had a bedroom, I
had a bedroom, and then we often slept in my bedroom,
and I wrote in my journal something about like it's
important that we maintain our separating identities, and that we
spent some nights.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Apart, eating dinner and talking about their days. She could
imagine a future with Kai. They made the place their
own and hung a picture of themselves in the front hallway.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
There was a big canvas picture of us kissing that
was displayed in our house.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
A few months into living together, Devine on a weekend
trip by herself. When she got back on Sunday night,
Devin immediately noticed something was different.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
The kissing picture was put in my bedroom, and when
I asked her about it, she said it had been
getting too much sun.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
This seemed like weird reasoning to Devin, so the next
day she brought it up to Kai again.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
She actually changed her story, and she had said she
noticed that I put it down, so that she assumed
I didn't want it displayed publicly and that it made
her sad.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Devin was confused. She knew she hadn't moved the picture, but.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
She was so adamant about it. Part of me started
to think, well, maybe maybe I did. Maybe I did
take the picture and move it over here, and now
she thinks that I am not proud of our relationship,
and she felt sad, and so she put it in
my room.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Either way, Kai assured Devin that she was just overthinking it.
She had nothing to worry about.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
She said, just know that I love you very much
and I respect value you. I wouldn't do anything to
jeopardize our relationship.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Kai was in school full time and was juggling multiple jobs.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
She spent a fair bit a time away from the house,
and I remember thinking at the time that I felt
like a nineteen fifties housewife because I was taking care
of her dog, and then we'd gotten a puppy, so
I was taking care of both of them and doing
my jobs, and she was just gone for twelve hours
a day. Often most of the cleaning was on me,
and the care of the house and the dogs was
(19:32):
on me.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Devin worked full time too. It was a lot to
keep up with, but she was happy to support Kai
in getting her degree and building a life she loved.
Summer rolled around and it was Pride month. Devin and
Kai made plans to attend the Pride Parade.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
We went to Pride with this new friend that she
had met, that she'd been spending a lot of time
with named s.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Before they went, Kai warned her that Sam was pretty flirty.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
She very clearly introduced Sam to me as a friend
who was very touchy feely, and that I shouldn't make
any meaning out of that.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
That day, Devin and Sam immediately clicked.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
I really liked Sam, super charismatic, kind of like Kai,
very gregarious, very friendly, you know, good energy. Just wanted
to be around her.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
As the day went on, Devin noticed that Sam and
Kai seemed really close, especially considering Sam was a new friend.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
We're all drinking, We're all pretty tipsy.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
That night, Kai and Sam were inseparable. Every time Devin
looked over, she saw them giggling or holding hands. Sometimes
Kai was affectionate with her friends in a platonic way,
especially when she was drinking, but this felt different.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
That was one of the first times that I saw
their dynamic together and started to feel like something was
really off.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
It made Devon uncomfortable. After Pride, she brought it up
to Kai. She tried to set boundaries, but Kai told
her it was not a big deal.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
She said, Hey, that didn't mean anything. Sam is super
touchy feely. That's just how she is. She's just that
kind of person.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Devin wanted to believe her, but it was getting harder
to put her worries aside.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
I was suspicious, I was concerned. I was increasingly mistrustful.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
After that conversation, Kai was unusually affectionate and supportive. She
kept telling Devin how special she was.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
All these sweet things like you're amazing, nobody's got shit
on you. You're the absolute best I've had by far.
I love you more than anything.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
But her insurance only did so much.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
And I started to feel more and more insecure in
the relationship. Devin wrote in her journal. God knows that
I love her, but I can't keep taking this.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
The fact that the three of them were always hanging
out together felt like a good sign. It's not like
Kai was trying to hide anything from her. I felt
like more of a boundaries issue than anything.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
There was one weekend when we had a whole bunch
of friends visiting. So I had friends from across the
country staying at our house and Kai had invited her friends,
including Sam, and we all went to this queer club
to go dancing, and we all got pretty tipsy, and
I remember Kai bringing up the idea of a threesome.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
A threesome Devin nearly choked on her drink.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And to be clear, the threesome that Kai wanted to
have was with Sam. It was kind of poised as, hey,
I want to be with somebody who's sextually opening this
way and wants to have a threesome. I said that
I wasn't interested. I didn't really want to do that.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
But then Ki pushed back. She said she wanted them
to have a new sexual experience together as a couple.
That was really important to her. And all of a sudden,
this wasn't about the threesome. It was about being the
person Kai wanted her to be.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
And I remember her almost yelling at me, I want
to be with somebody who wants to do that. I
felt super upset. I just burst out into tears and
I ran into the bathroom.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
This had never come up before, and Devin didn't have
any time to think it through because Kai didn't want
to wait. She wanted to do it that same night.
After that conversation, Kai floated away. They all kept drinking.
Soon everyone moved to the dance floor.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
And the next thing I remember, Sam was dancing with
me in a very sexual way that wasn't fully consensual
on my part, and I felt so awkward in that moment,
and I also didn't really know how to say no.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Finally, they all left the bar and headed back to
Devin and Kai's house. A bunch of their friends were
crashing at their place.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
We get home and next thing I know, Sam has
jumped into my bed where I was with Kai, and
then they just start having sex in front of me.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Devin felt pressured to join them.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Because Kai just made this huge deal about like, you're
not the person for me if you don't want to
do this.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
So she reluctantly went along with it.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I remember watching Sam go down on Kai and I
just had this like awareness hit me. This is not
the first time they've done this.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
One night, Devin's girlfriend Kai told her she wanted to
have a threesome with their friend Sam, and.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I felt immense pressure to go along with it.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
The next thing she knew, Sam joined her and Kai
in bed.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
There was just like this like weird vibe where it
felt as if it was almost like competitive, like who
is better at sex, but.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Then seeing Kai and Sam have sex, Devin had a
disturbing realization.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
The way that they were acting sexually together. It became
so obvious in that moment that that was not the
first time that they had had sex.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Devin felt sick and frozen.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
I can still feel in my body, it felt like
rocks in my stomach. And if I could turn back time,
I would have stood.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Up for myself then, but in the moment, she felt trapped.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
At some point it all stopped, and then we all
went to bed in the same bed, and I just remember,
like hardly sleeping that night. I just remember laying on
the pillow, kind of turned away from them, wondering what
I'd just done, what I'd just been a part of
questioning to myself, was I consenting? Was I not consenting?
I was super confused.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
The next day was a blur for Devin.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
I felt completely dissociated.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Something was deeply wrong.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I'd seen something, but it felt very intimidating to address
what had just happened.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Her gut told her it wasn't safe to confront Kai directly.
She didn't have any proof Kai was cheating on her
with Sam, just her intuition even' suggested they try couple's therapy,
and she.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Did show up for a session, and I just remember
crying through the whole session, and my therapist afterwards, in
a session with just me, she said, I don't know
how much empathy she has, And hearing a professional say
that was really helpful to me, because then I started
to see things a little more clearly. I realized that
the relationship was not working for me.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Devin had a feeling Kai would not react well to
a breakup, so she decided to have the conversation in
a public place. She invited Kai to meet her at
a restaurant to talk. Once they were seated at their table,
Devin took a deep breath and told Kai.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I really love you. I really tried. I think we
both really tried. Our relationship's not working. I think we
need to break up. And her response was really short.
She just said, like okay, and then got on her
bike and left.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
It was jarring. Devin left the restaurant feeling uneasy. She
went back to their house, but Kai had gotten there first.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
She took a knife and slashed through a kissing picture
of us and had faced it out, So it was
the first thing that I saw when I came back
into the house. She took toilet paper rolls and dropped
them in all the toilets, and she wrote on our whiteboard,
I'll send my terms.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Devin didn't know if Kai was coming back. She waited anxiously.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I was really unsettled that night. I know she had left,
I didn't know where she went. I went into my
room and I brought a kitchen chair. I wedged the
chair up under the door handle, and I also brought
the kitchen knife in with me and put it under
my pillow. There was a part of me that didn't
think she would ever do anything to hurt me, But
then there was a part of me that really did
not know.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
The next day Kai returned, they thought about who would
move out, Devin or Kai. The truth was neither of
them could afford to move out right away. Devin couldn't
get away from the feeling that Kai had been lying
to her, so she started looking for proof. That's when
she found a handwritten note in Kai's room. It was
(29:13):
from Sam.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I actually found a love letter from Sam to Kai
that said that she wanted to grow old with her
and have their dreams come true. And I also found
a video of them making out from when I had
gone away for a day trip and they were in
(29:35):
our house making out.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Devin stared at the video and the love letter, stunned.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
It was almost like the dissonance that I had been
surviving under came crashing together in that moment. I just
started shaking. I didn't stop shaking for twelve hours.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Devin decided to confront Kai, already broken up, but she
needed to know the truth about what had been happening
between Kai and Sam.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
We sat on the white couch and then I just
showed her the video and then she was like, oh, well,
like we were just pretending you're you know, we were
play acting. And then once she realized I wasn't buying
those lies, then she changed it to that was the
only time. It was a mistake. That's all we did
was kiss and it was just that one time. At
(30:29):
that point, it was just offensive. I was like, do
you really think I'm not stupid?
Speaker 1 (30:34):
After that, Devin expected Kai to move out of her
own volition, but Kai refused to leave. What followed was
a month that Devin describes as one of the hardest
of her life. Kai was trying everything to get Devin
to stay with her. She was emotionally volatile, alternating between
extreme affection and manipulation. Devin was scared of her, but
(30:57):
she was also stuck living with her. She felt trapped.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Kai would fluctuate between trying to get me to stay
with her and even initiating sex, and in that month
I felt emotionally unsafe, physically unsafe, but I also felt
sexually unsafe.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Eventually, Kai decided to move out, but on the day
she came to pick up the last of her things,
she had a breakdown.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
She proposed to me on a whim and starts like crying,
and then very quickly changes her demeanor into this like
very angry, cold person. And then I hear this noise
and I look out the window and she's smashing her
guitar in the driveway. I got scared, and so I
locked the door, and she says, hey, I don't have
(31:47):
my keys. I need to come in and get my keys.
And I paused because I didn't feel safe, and then
she's like, no, no, I just need to come in
and get my keys, and so I unlocked the door
and she pushes it open and then she stands right
in front of me, and her eyes changed and they
got very cold, and she said, I didn't leave my keys.
(32:12):
I actually felt chills at that moment. I just I
knew she wasn't safe, and I knew if I poked
her in any way, I was not going to be safe.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Devin stayed calm until Kai finally left. When she was alone,
she slumped to the ground and began to cry. She'd
been with Kai for almost three years, but below the
sadness there was anger. Anger at Kai, and anger at Sam,
she had considered a friend. She decided to send Sam
(32:44):
a message, and.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
I said, I'm so hurt that you did this, that
you kind of inserted yourself into my relationship with Kai.
I don't know how you could do this to me
and pretend to be like a friend to me.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
It was cathartic to get some emotion out when she did.
I didn't hear from Sam for a few weeks. Devin
assumed that was the end of it. Months went by
until one day Devin got a notification.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
I get a message from Sam that says, thank you
for reaching out to me. Your message helped me listen
to my gut, and if you're willing to I'd like
to meet up and talk about a few things, because
I thought that I was Kai's only girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Devin reread the words, I thought I was Kai's only girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
I was shocked. What Kaya told me was that Sam
had inserted herself. She had orchestrated the threesome. It was
all her. She's touchy, flirty, you know. Kai wasn't even
attracted to her.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
But now it was becoming clear that was very far
from the truth. Devin and Sam had a lot to
talk about, so Devin invited her over to her place.
They split a bottle of wine, and for the first time,
Devin heard the story from Sam's perspective.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
The last ten months of my relationship with Kai, when
we were still living together and I thought exclusive and monogamous.
Sam was also dating Kai and thought that they were
exclusive and monogamous. Kai had maintained both of us as
her girlfriend, and we both thought we were her only
(34:25):
girlfriend for ten months. At that point, the rage just
set in. My blood started to boil because I thought
that I had understood the depth of the betrayal, but
I hadn't.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
It turns out Kai had been pretending that Devin was
her ex girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Kai had told Sam that she couldn't afford to move
out yet, and that's why we had different rooms, that
we weren't girlfriends anymore, and that supposedly the reason that
we'd broken up was that I had cheated on her
with my best friend. The audacity of that lie incensed me.
I was infuriated that she would make me out to
(35:09):
be the villain.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Most people, when they're cheating, go to great lengths to
keep their partners away from each other, but Kai did
the opposite. She brought Devin and Sam together as often
as she could, even instigating the threesome. She seemed to
enjoy the power that came with being the only one
in the know. The more they talked, the more they
(35:33):
discovered just how organized and systematic Kai was in her deception.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Kai had actually sinked both of our Google calendars up
to her calendar, so she knew where both of us
were at any given time, so she could figure out
when Sam could be over at the house for them
to have sex and you not walk in on them.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
It just kept getting worse and worse.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
I'd stopped being hurt. I was just pissed.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Devin and Sam realized they'd both been lied to. So
they decided to work together to expose Kai.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
I think that that helped reclaim a sense of empowerment.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
If Kai was so willing to lie to both of them,
what else was she hiding? Devin and Sam went into
investigation mode.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
I wanted to get to the truth. So what I
did after meeting with Sam was I actually reached out
to everybody that knew Kai and asked if they'd be
willing to meet with me.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
Many of Kai's friends agreed. Devin met with them one
by one. Slowly she began to piece together the full
picture of Kai's deception. Kai had been lying to Devin
from the very beginning, starting with the story she told
her about Melissa.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
They had been living together as girlfriends when Kai had
started pursuing me. Kai would tell Melissa that I was
a student at her college, and she said we were
in the same class together and that she was going
to go study with me.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Devin had comforted Kai through the end of her friendship
with Melissa, but now Devin realized that hadn't been a
friendship gone wrong. It was a breakup and the.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Car that she would drive was Melissa's car, So when
it disappeared and Kai told me she'd given it to
her brother in this generous gift she hadn't given to anybody.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Kai was following a script, telling each new woman she
was pursuing that her long term girlfriend was just a roommate,
and she told her long term girlfriend that the women
she was pursuing were just friends. When her long term
relationship crumbled, she moved in with a new woman and
repeated the cycle.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
I really started to see this pattern that she had
been using for years, most likely before even Melissa. What
I was going on with her was deef seated and
cyclical and not going to change.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
As Devin and Sam continued reaching out to Kai's old friends,
they found out a lot of them weren't just friends.
They'd been hooking up with Kai too.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
She had been having sex with a number of other
people while both of us had been dating her.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Devin was able to confirm evidence of Kai cheating on
her with four other women, though she suspects it's upwards
of nine.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Kai actually brought them not only to our house, but
into my bed and used our sex toys. It made
my skin crawl. It just felt so violating and so unsafe.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Kai put Devin's sexual health at risk.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I was really concerned. I remember scheduling a full sexual
health checkup once I found out I did have a
PAP that tested abnormal after this experience, and fortunately it
resolved itself after about a year. It felt like an
additional betrayal.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Devin thought back to the quirks and Kai's behavior that
she'd brushed aside, like how Kai was always running late,
or why she'd taken down that photo of them kissing
while Devin was out of town. Now it made sense
Kai had other women coming over to their house when
Devin wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
She just had all of these like flings while she
also had these ongoing relationships, So she was good at this.
She'd been doing this for a long time.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Devin and Sam were so outraged they decided to go
straight to the source of all the chaos.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
We actually confronted Kai together. We called her while we
were together, and she picks up the phone and she's like,
oh hey, Like no emotion, no nothing.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
They told Kai they knew what she'd done to them.
They knew about her pattern of pretending her girlfriend was
her roommate while she courted someone new, all the people
she cheated with, and all the lies she told to
cover it all up. They knew everything.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
The reaction that I think we might have been hoping
for was some sort of remorse or some sort of accountability,
and just nothing. It was almost like this chess game
and it was checkmate, and she didn't really care that
we figured it out. At that point, we both got
really pissed. We were just chess pieces to her. It
(40:37):
almost felt like I stepped out of my real life
and I was in a movie about a con artist
or something.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
Kai was already onto her next girlfriend. She didn't need
Devin or Sam. Then it dawned on Devin. For Ki,
this wasn't about love. It was about convenience. Kai had
a rotating cast of way and helping take care of
her needs. It was like musical chairs, and she didn't
seem to care where she landed.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
I think her con was actually like getting her dog
taken care of, having somebody who's buying groceries, having somebody
who is maintaining a stable household that she could come
and go from.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Kai would let her girlfriends cook for her, clean up
after her, and drive her around.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
It was about having her other needs met, but it
was also about having a very respectable looking life so
that she could go out and do the stuff she
really wanted to do.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
While Kai's girlfriends kept her life afloat, she secretly destroyed theirs.
Devin and Sam wanted to break Kai's pattern. Clearly, Kai
herself was not interested in that, but there was one
more person that Devin and Sam knew would be interested
in the information they'd gathered Kai's knew girlfriend.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Sam knew who her next person was because she had
talked about this new person a lot, and neither of
us had her contact information, so we actually reached out
on LinkedIn, so it was like a few characters. It
was like, you know, she's not who she says she is.
She dated multiple people at once, call me if you
want any information. Devin hits end crickets for months, and
(42:23):
then finally I got a message back from her and
she was like, Hey, I really appreciate you reaching out,
and it helped me listen to my gut more quickly
and end it with Kai. And I don't think I
would have seen that so quickly without you.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
It was meaningful to know that they had protected someone
from Kai's cycle of deception. It felt like the natural
end of Devin's investigation now came the next step her
own healing.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
You know, looking back on my journaling of the whole relationship,
it's almost like watching a bad horror film where the
protagonist is like walking through the house being like hello, Hello,
is anyone here? You know, and you're like screaming at
the screen. They're right behind you.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Devin began untangling her life and identity from Kai. She
invested her energy back into herself, her friendships, and her work.
For years, she told herself that the threesome with Sam
and Kai was not a big deal and rationalized her
own discomfort away. But as time went on, she started
to be honest about the impact it had on her.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
I started to perceive it the way I really experienced it,
which was not consensually, which was very high on the
coercion scale, a lot of alcohol involved, My people, pleasing
was at an all time max. I recognized that it
was trauma, and I did do EMDR specifically around that
(43:50):
traumatic event. And I remember when she started, they have
you do a scale of one to ten in terms
of activation, and it was a ten. My body went
back to that place of feeling powerless and kind of
trapped and by the end of the session we had
it down to a three. I'm really grateful that I
had the courage to go back into it and try
(44:12):
to shift that trauma so it wouldn't live on in
me with too much power.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
One day, a couple of years later, Devan was waiting
for the subway when she looked up and saw Kai.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
I saw her, and she saw me, and she walked
away from me to the next car. And that felt empowering,
like this person who I had been scared of, who
I gave so much power to and so much control
to for such a long time, wasn't going to try
to manipulate me anymore. I didn't even want to approach
(44:50):
me anymore.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
When Kai left their apartment for the last time, she
said something to Devin that echoed in her brain for years.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
She said to me, nobody's ever going to love you
like I do. And for a moment I questioned if
she was right, like I didn't know what a healthy
relationship looked, or felt like maybe that was the best
I was going to get. And then I had just
had this strong, strong, no take over my body.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Like always, She used her journal to help her envision
the kind of relationship she did want.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
I wrote, I will have a healthy, loving partnership with
someone I love and I trust we will communicate and
seek to know each other deeply. She's out there. I
just have to stay on the path and let the
universe know that I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
It's been over a decade since Devin's relationship with Kai. Today,
Devin has that loving partnership she imagined.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
I found her. I found her, and I have a
six month old baby, and if I listened to what
Kai said back then, I wouldn't have and I'm very
grateful to have the life that I have now.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
We end every weekly episode with the same question, why
do you want to share your story?
Speaker 2 (46:07):
It takes a lot for me to get to a
place of anger, but I will have my own back
when it comes down to it. I think as women,
we are socialized to doubt ourselves and to go along
to get along. This experience was an invitation to really
learn to trust myself. I learned what the feeling of
(46:31):
intuition is in my body, and I also learned how
bad it feels to shove it down.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly, I.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
Just felt like all the breath had been stolen out
of my body? How do we have these completely differ,
diferent stories? Do I have my own story wrong?
Speaker 1 (47:09):
If you'd like to share your story on Betrayal, please
email Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That is Betrayal Pod
at gmail dot com. Please note that we are not
a mental health organization. If you are in crisis or
currently experiencing domestic violence, we encourage you to seek local
(47:30):
help or dial nine to one one. Please contact organizations
that offer immediate support. In our show notes, we've included
a list of US based resources. You can follow us
on Instagram at betrayal Pod or find me at It's
Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter and additional content, and
to connect with the Betrayal community, join our substack at
(47:54):
Betrayal dot substack dot com. We're grateful for your support.
One way to show support is by subscribing to our
show on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and
review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. Big
thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a
production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group,
(48:15):
in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced
by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by
me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Olivia Hewitt. Our
story editor is Monique Lebord, also produced by Ben Fetterman.
Our associate producer is Leah Jablo. Production management by Kristin Melcurie,
(48:37):
Booking support by Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ali
Perry and Jessica Crimecheck. Audio editing by Tanner Robbins with
additional editing and mixing by Matt Delbecchio. Betrayal's theme composed
by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by my Music And
For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
(48:59):
or wherever you get your podcasts,
Host
Andrea Gunning
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