April 9, 2026 • 19 mins
The Betrayal team takes you behind the scenes of Season 5 – unpacking how Saskia’s story came to be, and all the memorable moments along the way.
If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts.
Follow our newsletter and join the Betrayal community at betrayal.substack.com. For resources on sexual violence, visit rainn.org/betrayal.
You can also get free, confidential, 24/7 support through RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline. Just text HOPE to 64673 or call 1-800-656-HOPE. Every state has a domestic violence coalition, and many counties also have resources available.
If you’re looking for help, go onto your county’s website to see what resources are available locally, or search the web for your state’s domestic violence coalition.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal. Today. We have
another bonus episode.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Now that season five is over, I wanted to get
the whole team together, our producers, our editors, to talk
about how the season came to be and all of
the moments that stuck with us along the way.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Here's our conversation. Hi everybody.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Hi.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
We did this last year where after we released season four,
we got together and talked about all of our favorite moments,
what it was like producing the season, and I thought
that it would be kind of fun to do it again.
Maybe where we can start is going around and everyone
introduced themselves and tell a little bit about how you
(00:54):
worked on the show.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
Sure, Hi.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
I'm Caitlin Golden and I helped to produce this season.
Speaker 5 (01:01):
Hi.
Speaker 6 (01:01):
I am Kerrie Hartman, also a producer.
Speaker 7 (01:04):
I'm monikle Boord. I'm the story editor on the last
two seasons of Betrayal.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
Mettl Vickiu I am a sound engineer on Betrayal.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
And I'm Tanner Robbins. I am one of the audio editors.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I think a really great place to start is how
we found the story in the first place.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I think this question goes to Caitlin.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Can you tell us a little bit about how this
season and how Saskia's story came to be.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Yeah. I started at Glass about two years ago as
an associate producer when Carrie and Moe were running production
on Betrayal, and one of my big jobs was going
through the email inbox where people you know, write in
with their thoughts about the show, but also kind of
most importantly, they're writing with their own stories of Betrayal.
(01:58):
So Saskia, she sent an email September twenty twenty four,
which is the same month that Giselle Pelico went to
trial for the rape case of her husband.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I actually pulled up.
Speaker 7 (02:10):
Her initial email. I want to read it.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
It's pretty short. She said.
Speaker 7 (02:14):
Hello, I live in Maryland and I was married to
hold for It, the man of my dreams. Everyone thought
he was smart and kind and successful. Ended up he
was doing horrible things to me while I was unconscious,
night after night, and broadcasting this to strangers on a
widespread scale, in between being the perfect husband, father and stepfather.
Things only got worse when I found out what he
was doing and we went through a legal battle. Quote
(02:36):
raping your wife end quote Apparently was not a crime
in Maryland, so we had to have police contact tech
experts in these camming websites to get the footage for Court.
I would really like to tell my story. I can
so relate to these women that I am watching on
your show. Let me know if someone can contact me.
I think it would be cathartic for me. Heart emoji,
thank you, Saskia. So yeah, it's taken a year and
(02:59):
a half to get here where the story's officially out
and the season's over, but it's been a real team effort, dur.
I'm curious when you go back to the moment that
you were like, this needs to be a season as
opposed to a single episode. Is there something that stands
out for you, a scene in your mind where you
first really remember connecting to the story.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I think for me, the fact that he could watch
this person spiral, wake up with black eyes, wake up
on the bathroom floor, feel like she is going crazy,
feel like she is just now destined to walk the
same path as her father who struggled with mental health,
(03:46):
and to know that you were doing something in the
dark that could contribute to that is just.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
So cruel to me.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
That's why I thought this was a really good season,
like the two things that were happening light a day
and in the darkness.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
One thing that we've learned throughout the five seasons of
Betrayal is that perpetrators like Mike, they're actors. They're acting
out the part of a loving husband or a great
step father, but they're really actors, and once you accept
(04:29):
and understand that, it's easier to see that all of
it it's like a giant fraud.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
The other aspect of the story that I just was like,
from an emotional point of view, I think I've always
really wanted to dismantle the idea of the perfect victim
because I feel like we just really default to this
understanding of righteous rape that the only person that's worthy
(05:02):
of saying I had this crime of rape done to
me is this pristine victim that was plucked off the
street and this happened. Zaskia's story kind of defies that archetype,
but it still doesn't change what happened to her, and
so it allowed us to really examine that myth in
a really big way, not just through the criminal.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Trial, but really the divorce trial.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
So for that reason, I feel like That's why I
really wanted to make this season totally what about you.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
I remember in that initial phone call, she's telling the
story and then all of a sudden, she gets to
the point in her story where he only gets eighteen
months in jail, and she says, this was completely legal
in my state, and I was like, wait, what, how
in the world.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
I think that was the thing that surprised me and
shocked me the most this season was the fact that
that law was on the books at the time. Was
just it really hit me a little bit because I
don't understand how that could even be.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Tanner, you knew nothing going into the season about the
story and the creative You're literally getting scripts from Caitlin
and learning as you go.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, I usually get the first draft of the episode
when it's ready to go into the edit.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Can you tell me what it was like working on
this season, what moment most surprised you, and what do
you feel like was the most impactful.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
What shocked me maybe the most in the story was
a quote from the perpetrator, Mike. I think it was
during the divorce trial that he didn't believe in his
heart that he raped her. Mike is having sex with
his unconscious wife. What did he think that he was
(07:01):
doing if he was not raping her, what did he
think that was? That was what was most shocking to me,
even after admitting to committing this crime. Then go to
a different court and say the exact opposite.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
There is an entitlement there that exists in our society.
Whether or not he knew what the laws were in Maryland,
he already felt entitled to her body in a way
however he wanted it. And then there are laws that
exist in the.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
State in which he lives with his.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Wife that in Bolden and validate that entitlement. Those two
things I think have been interconnected and working for each
other since the creation of this country.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
That was kind of hand in hand to The most
impactful thing is that this case and other cases that
have come on recently have helped change these laws, and
these laws are changing, and I think it's good to
see that lawmakers at least are waking up to some
of this.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
We often talk about amends. What does amends really look like?
Once you've understood that you've done something wrong and you
deeply hurt somebody, you're operating from a place of harm reduction.
What can I do to repair, do less harm and
(08:46):
own up to my mistakes? And when you look at
how things played out in the divorce, someone who understands
that they've done something wrong understands the impact of their
behavior and actions towards another person would say, you know what,
no fault divorce. Let me make this really easy for you.
Let me do as little harm in this process to Saskia.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
That would be the right thing to do. He did
not do that.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
As much as it is to tell Sasti's story, we
are in a way telling the Mike Levin good story
of what he did to his wife.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
And I'm a human being.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I think about the fact that he's trying to rebuild,
but I also think about the fact of, like, what
has this person done to restore and help support Saskia.
Speaker 7 (09:35):
This is something Kerry and I have been talking about.
So Carrie had produced seasons one through four, and when
this season came around, Carrie actually stepped out to produce
another show at Glass Burden of Guilt and that is
a redemption arc story. People should go listen to it.
The perpetrator genuinely puts in the work to make amends
for something hateous that he did in his past. And
(09:58):
there's something Karrien, I've been talking about here with season
five of Betrayal with Oskia story, because like, we don't
set out to demonize these perpetrators. We set out to
report the story. Survivors come to us, right to us,
and we work with them. But if there was genuinely
an effort that Mike leven Good had made to acknowledge
(10:19):
the harm he had done to make amends, you know,
and he did plead guilty, like he had the opportunity
to use that to make a statement to her to
not put her through the divorce trial she did, and
like you were saying, Andrea, like he did not take
those opportunities. And so we can't report a redemption arc
because it isn't there, and it's disappointing.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Honestly, I think the thing that makes this season different
in terms of that amends and accountability piece is that
we're talking about a perpetrator who has gone on to
make an entire career off of his criminal past. And
(10:58):
to me, the most shocking take of the entire season
comes at the end of episode nine, where you hear
Trey recounting the phone call with Mike Levinngood and I
was in the room for that call, so I remember
it very well. And Trey gets on the line tells
Mike that we want to tell this story about his
(11:22):
business and about his relationship with Saska Inwood, And the
tone in Mike's voice was just so shocking, like you
could tell he really did not see the connection between
what he did to Saskia and what he is doing
in his business now. It's like he has had to
(11:42):
sever something in his mind in order to move forward
with his life, and that's a privilege that Saskia will
never be afforded.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I'm so curious. This goes to the editors. What is
your favorite episode of the season and why.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
The courtroom the criminal trial. Maybe it's just because I
love tape in the field. It's one thing to hear
somebody tell their story. It's another thing to hear it
happening in real time and hearing the judge see through
Mike's liies. You know, when you hear defense attorneys and
(12:21):
witnesses saying all these things that you know are not
true or just being spun in this way, and then
to hear the person with the power see through it
and make the right decision. It's just so satisfying.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
Truthfully, I don't have a favorite episode, but I do
second a lot of what you said, Danner. It's always
refreshing whenever a judge takes a minute to reprimand somebody
who just thinks that he's flying pretty it feels like
a good moment. Whenever you get to hear a judge say, actually,
you're completely wrong. That was definitely impactful for me too.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, And sometimes you can have all the evidence, the videos,
the photos, and it's still it may not be enough.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
But in this case, the judge really saw. And I'm
so grateful, Carrie. I was going to ask you, you know, having.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Worked on this show in every iteration of it, having
worked with so many different subjects, what to you really
resonated this season.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
I think we knew even before the Giselle Pelico story
came out this kind of crime is a trend. It's underreported,
and it's probably underreported because people are too shamefilled to
report it.
Speaker 7 (13:41):
Yeah, and it's under prosecuted.
Speaker 6 (13:44):
I really feel good when we are bringing things to
the surface that might be uncomfortable or even unrealized by
a good portion of the public. Because you never know
when one of our audience members might be wake up
with the morning unsure of what happened the night before,
or feeling odd, And it's just information an education that
(14:08):
it's okay to question.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Totally, and I mean with the idea that this is
a trend for me. One of the most impactful parts
of this season was talking to all of these other
women who had experienced this crime. We did also include
these stories of Natalie, Ember and Stephanie, and watching the
three of them in their progression and their healing journey
(14:32):
has been really impactful too. I mean, Drey and I
talk all the time about Natalie in particular. She'd never
heard of a story like her own until she heard
Stephanie's episodes on Betrayal Weekly, and when I first got
on the phone with her, she was incredibly nervous, and
over the course of many, many months, we had lots
(14:54):
of conversations back and forth about do you want to
tell your story now, is later down the line a
better time? What level of anonymity do we want to use?
She eventually felt comfortable, and when we had that round
table conversation with all of these other survivors, it was
like a different woman was in that room, like or
(15:18):
hope as a show is always that the people that
we're working with we are able to impact their lives
in some little way, that by helping them tell their story,
we are helping them on their healing journey. But I
think that was one of the first times where I,
as someone who's really new to this field, saw right
before my eyes.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Like this is someone who's transformed.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
There was just a brightness in her face that made
me incredibly emotional.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I mean, that's the thing is realizing that you're not alone.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I felt that way when I was listening to the
bonus episode with.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
The case updates.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, and I honestly got choked up listening to Stephanie
at the very end spoilers if anyone hasn't listened to
that bonus episode, it's an update on.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Mber, Natalie and Stephanie.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
And when Carrie and I first talked to Stephanie, she
was wearing baggy clothes, she chopped off all of her hair,
she couldn't even look in the mirror, and she is
just now reclaiming her body and that's the work that
she's done. But to see that happen from meeting her
(16:24):
two years ago. It's astonishing to see what she's done
in the work that she's put in and how she
came out on the other side.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
It's cool.
Speaker 7 (16:34):
It's really cool when people ask, which they often do. Oh,
it must be so hard to work on stories like this.
The antidote for me is really getting to see the
healing and the connections and the progress the survivors are making,
and to see that the telling of their story was
helpful and that is actually more impactful for me in
(16:55):
the end than the worst part of their story.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
That we hear.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Well, thank you all for your hard work this season.
It was a difficult season to produce. It was an
emotional one to produce, and you know, we deal with
really tough subject matter. But I'm really proud of the
season and I'm proud of everyone's work on it, and
so thank you. For resources on sexual violence, visit RAIN
(17:25):
dot org slash betrayal. That's our ai n N dot
org slash betrayal. You can also get free confidential twenty
four seven support through Rain's National Sexual Assault Hotline. Just
text Hope to six four six seven three or call
one eight hundred sixty five six Hope you are not alone.
(17:48):
If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal
team or want to tell us your story, email us
at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That is Betrayal Pod
at gmail dot com. Or follow us on Instagram at
betrayal Pod. To access additional content and to connect with
the Betrayal community, join our substack at Betrayal dot substack
(18:10):
dot com.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
We're grateful for your support.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
One way to show support is by subscribing to our
show on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and
review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A
big thank you to all of our listeners.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Betrayal is the.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group,
in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced
by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by
me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Caitlin Golden. Our
supervising producer is Kerrie Hartman. Our story editor is Monique
(18:47):
le Board. Also produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are
Olivia Hewitt and Leah Jablo. Production management by Kristin Melciri.
Additional support by Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ali
Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Audio editing by Tanner Robbins, with
additional editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio. Special thanks to Saskia,
(19:10):
her friends and family, and special thanks to Will Pearson
and Carrie Lieberman. Betrayal's theme is composed by Oliver Bains.
Music library provided by Mob Music and For more podcasts
from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts
I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal. Today. We have
another bonus episode.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Now that season five is over, I wanted to get
the whole team together, our producers, our editors, to talk
about how the season came to be and all of
the moments that stuck with us along the way.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Here's our conversation. Hi everybody.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Hi.
Speaker 4 (00:32):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
We did this last year where after we released season four,
we got together and talked about all of our favorite moments,
what it was like producing the season, and I thought
that it would be kind of fun to do it again.
Maybe where we can start is going around and everyone
introduced themselves and tell a little bit about how you
(00:54):
worked on the show.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
Sure, Hi.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
I'm Caitlin Golden and I helped to produce this season.
Speaker 5 (01:01):
Hi.
Speaker 6 (01:01):
I am Kerrie Hartman, also a producer.
Speaker 7 (01:04):
I'm monikle Boord. I'm the story editor on the last
two seasons of Betrayal.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
Mettl Vickiu I am a sound engineer on Betrayal.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
And I'm Tanner Robbins. I am one of the audio editors.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I think a really great place to start is how
we found the story in the first place.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I think this question goes to Caitlin.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Can you tell us a little bit about how this
season and how Saskia's story came to be.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Yeah. I started at Glass about two years ago as
an associate producer when Carrie and Moe were running production
on Betrayal, and one of my big jobs was going
through the email inbox where people you know, write in
with their thoughts about the show, but also kind of
most importantly, they're writing with their own stories of Betrayal.
(01:58):
So Saskia, she sent an email September twenty twenty four,
which is the same month that Giselle Pelico went to
trial for the rape case of her husband.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I actually pulled up.
Speaker 7 (02:10):
Her initial email. I want to read it.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
It's pretty short. She said.
Speaker 7 (02:14):
Hello, I live in Maryland and I was married to
hold for It, the man of my dreams. Everyone thought
he was smart and kind and successful. Ended up he
was doing horrible things to me while I was unconscious,
night after night, and broadcasting this to strangers on a
widespread scale, in between being the perfect husband, father and stepfather.
Things only got worse when I found out what he
was doing and we went through a legal battle. Quote
(02:36):
raping your wife end quote Apparently was not a crime
in Maryland, so we had to have police contact tech
experts in these camming websites to get the footage for Court.
I would really like to tell my story. I can
so relate to these women that I am watching on
your show. Let me know if someone can contact me.
I think it would be cathartic for me. Heart emoji,
thank you, Saskia. So yeah, it's taken a year and
(02:59):
a half to get here where the story's officially out
and the season's over, but it's been a real team effort, dur.
I'm curious when you go back to the moment that
you were like, this needs to be a season as
opposed to a single episode. Is there something that stands
out for you, a scene in your mind where you
first really remember connecting to the story.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I think for me, the fact that he could watch
this person spiral, wake up with black eyes, wake up
on the bathroom floor, feel like she is going crazy,
feel like she is just now destined to walk the
same path as her father who struggled with mental health,
(03:46):
and to know that you were doing something in the
dark that could contribute to that is just.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
So cruel to me.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
That's why I thought this was a really good season,
like the two things that were happening light a day
and in the darkness.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
One thing that we've learned throughout the five seasons of
Betrayal is that perpetrators like Mike, they're actors. They're acting
out the part of a loving husband or a great
step father, but they're really actors, and once you accept
(04:29):
and understand that, it's easier to see that all of
it it's like a giant fraud.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
The other aspect of the story that I just was like,
from an emotional point of view, I think I've always
really wanted to dismantle the idea of the perfect victim
because I feel like we just really default to this
understanding of righteous rape that the only person that's worthy
(05:02):
of saying I had this crime of rape done to
me is this pristine victim that was plucked off the
street and this happened. Zaskia's story kind of defies that archetype,
but it still doesn't change what happened to her, and
so it allowed us to really examine that myth in
a really big way, not just through the criminal.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Trial, but really the divorce trial.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
So for that reason, I feel like That's why I
really wanted to make this season totally what about you.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
I remember in that initial phone call, she's telling the
story and then all of a sudden, she gets to
the point in her story where he only gets eighteen
months in jail, and she says, this was completely legal
in my state, and I was like, wait, what, how
in the world.
Speaker 5 (05:51):
I think that was the thing that surprised me and
shocked me the most this season was the fact that
that law was on the books at the time. Was
just it really hit me a little bit because I
don't understand how that could even be.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Tanner, you knew nothing going into the season about the
story and the creative You're literally getting scripts from Caitlin
and learning as you go.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, I usually get the first draft of the episode
when it's ready to go into the edit.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Can you tell me what it was like working on
this season, what moment most surprised you, and what do
you feel like was the most impactful.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
What shocked me maybe the most in the story was
a quote from the perpetrator, Mike. I think it was
during the divorce trial that he didn't believe in his
heart that he raped her. Mike is having sex with
his unconscious wife. What did he think that he was
(07:01):
doing if he was not raping her, what did he
think that was? That was what was most shocking to me,
even after admitting to committing this crime. Then go to
a different court and say the exact opposite.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
There is an entitlement there that exists in our society.
Whether or not he knew what the laws were in Maryland,
he already felt entitled to her body in a way
however he wanted it. And then there are laws that
exist in the.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
State in which he lives with his.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Wife that in Bolden and validate that entitlement. Those two
things I think have been interconnected and working for each
other since the creation of this country.
Speaker 5 (07:51):
That was kind of hand in hand to The most
impactful thing is that this case and other cases that
have come on recently have helped change these laws, and
these laws are changing, and I think it's good to
see that lawmakers at least are waking up to some
of this.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
We often talk about amends. What does amends really look like?
Once you've understood that you've done something wrong and you
deeply hurt somebody, you're operating from a place of harm reduction.
What can I do to repair, do less harm and
(08:46):
own up to my mistakes? And when you look at
how things played out in the divorce, someone who understands
that they've done something wrong understands the impact of their
behavior and actions towards another person would say, you know what,
no fault divorce. Let me make this really easy for you.
Let me do as little harm in this process to Saskia.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
That would be the right thing to do. He did
not do that.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
As much as it is to tell Sasti's story, we
are in a way telling the Mike Levin good story
of what he did to his wife.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
And I'm a human being.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I think about the fact that he's trying to rebuild,
but I also think about the fact of, like, what
has this person done to restore and help support Saskia.
Speaker 7 (09:35):
This is something Kerry and I have been talking about.
So Carrie had produced seasons one through four, and when
this season came around, Carrie actually stepped out to produce
another show at Glass Burden of Guilt and that is
a redemption arc story. People should go listen to it.
The perpetrator genuinely puts in the work to make amends
for something hateous that he did in his past. And
(09:58):
there's something Karrien, I've been talking about here with season
five of Betrayal with Oskia story, because like, we don't
set out to demonize these perpetrators. We set out to
report the story. Survivors come to us, right to us,
and we work with them. But if there was genuinely
an effort that Mike leven Good had made to acknowledge
(10:19):
the harm he had done to make amends, you know,
and he did plead guilty, like he had the opportunity
to use that to make a statement to her to
not put her through the divorce trial she did, and
like you were saying, Andrea, like he did not take
those opportunities. And so we can't report a redemption arc
because it isn't there, and it's disappointing.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Honestly, I think the thing that makes this season different
in terms of that amends and accountability piece is that
we're talking about a perpetrator who has gone on to
make an entire career off of his criminal past. And
(10:58):
to me, the most shocking take of the entire season
comes at the end of episode nine, where you hear
Trey recounting the phone call with Mike Levinngood and I
was in the room for that call, so I remember
it very well. And Trey gets on the line tells
Mike that we want to tell this story about his
(11:22):
business and about his relationship with Saska Inwood, And the
tone in Mike's voice was just so shocking, like you
could tell he really did not see the connection between
what he did to Saskia and what he is doing
in his business now. It's like he has had to
(11:42):
sever something in his mind in order to move forward
with his life, and that's a privilege that Saskia will
never be afforded.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I'm so curious. This goes to the editors. What is
your favorite episode of the season and why.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
The courtroom the criminal trial. Maybe it's just because I
love tape in the field. It's one thing to hear
somebody tell their story. It's another thing to hear it
happening in real time and hearing the judge see through
Mike's liies. You know, when you hear defense attorneys and
(12:21):
witnesses saying all these things that you know are not
true or just being spun in this way, and then
to hear the person with the power see through it
and make the right decision. It's just so satisfying.
Speaker 5 (12:37):
Truthfully, I don't have a favorite episode, but I do
second a lot of what you said, Danner. It's always
refreshing whenever a judge takes a minute to reprimand somebody
who just thinks that he's flying pretty it feels like
a good moment. Whenever you get to hear a judge say, actually,
you're completely wrong. That was definitely impactful for me too.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, And sometimes you can have all the evidence, the videos,
the photos, and it's still it may not be enough.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
But in this case, the judge really saw. And I'm
so grateful, Carrie. I was going to ask you, you know, having.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Worked on this show in every iteration of it, having
worked with so many different subjects, what to you really
resonated this season.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
I think we knew even before the Giselle Pelico story
came out this kind of crime is a trend. It's underreported,
and it's probably underreported because people are too shamefilled to
report it.
Speaker 7 (13:41):
Yeah, and it's under prosecuted.
Speaker 6 (13:44):
I really feel good when we are bringing things to
the surface that might be uncomfortable or even unrealized by
a good portion of the public. Because you never know
when one of our audience members might be wake up
with the morning unsure of what happened the night before,
or feeling odd, And it's just information an education that
(14:08):
it's okay to question.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Totally, and I mean with the idea that this is
a trend for me. One of the most impactful parts
of this season was talking to all of these other
women who had experienced this crime. We did also include
these stories of Natalie, Ember and Stephanie, and watching the
three of them in their progression and their healing journey
(14:32):
has been really impactful too. I mean, Drey and I
talk all the time about Natalie in particular. She'd never
heard of a story like her own until she heard
Stephanie's episodes on Betrayal Weekly, and when I first got
on the phone with her, she was incredibly nervous, and
over the course of many, many months, we had lots
(14:54):
of conversations back and forth about do you want to
tell your story now, is later down the line a
better time? What level of anonymity do we want to use?
She eventually felt comfortable, and when we had that round
table conversation with all of these other survivors, it was
like a different woman was in that room, like or
(15:18):
hope as a show is always that the people that
we're working with we are able to impact their lives
in some little way, that by helping them tell their story,
we are helping them on their healing journey. But I
think that was one of the first times where I,
as someone who's really new to this field, saw right
before my eyes.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Like this is someone who's transformed.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
There was just a brightness in her face that made
me incredibly emotional.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
I mean, that's the thing is realizing that you're not alone.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I felt that way when I was listening to the
bonus episode with.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
The case updates.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, and I honestly got choked up listening to Stephanie
at the very end spoilers if anyone hasn't listened to
that bonus episode, it's an update on.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Mber, Natalie and Stephanie.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
And when Carrie and I first talked to Stephanie, she
was wearing baggy clothes, she chopped off all of her hair,
she couldn't even look in the mirror, and she is
just now reclaiming her body and that's the work that
she's done. But to see that happen from meeting her
(16:24):
two years ago. It's astonishing to see what she's done
in the work that she's put in and how she
came out on the other side.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
It's cool.
Speaker 7 (16:34):
It's really cool when people ask, which they often do. Oh,
it must be so hard to work on stories like this.
The antidote for me is really getting to see the
healing and the connections and the progress the survivors are making,
and to see that the telling of their story was
helpful and that is actually more impactful for me in
(16:55):
the end than the worst part of their story.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
That we hear.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Well, thank you all for your hard work this season.
It was a difficult season to produce. It was an
emotional one to produce, and you know, we deal with
really tough subject matter. But I'm really proud of the
season and I'm proud of everyone's work on it, and
so thank you. For resources on sexual violence, visit RAIN
(17:25):
dot org slash betrayal. That's our ai n N dot
org slash betrayal. You can also get free confidential twenty
four seven support through Rain's National Sexual Assault Hotline. Just
text Hope to six four six seven three or call
one eight hundred sixty five six Hope you are not alone.
(17:48):
If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal
team or want to tell us your story, email us
at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That is Betrayal Pod
at gmail dot com. Or follow us on Instagram at
betrayal Pod. To access additional content and to connect with
the Betrayal community, join our substack at Betrayal dot substack
(18:10):
dot com.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
We're grateful for your support.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
One way to show support is by subscribing to our
show on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and
review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A
big thank you to all of our listeners.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Betrayal is the.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group,
in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced
by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by
me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Caitlin Golden. Our
supervising producer is Kerrie Hartman. Our story editor is Monique
(18:47):
le Board. Also produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are
Olivia Hewitt and Leah Jablo. Production management by Kristin Melciri.
Additional support by Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ali
Perry and Jessica Crincheck. Audio editing by Tanner Robbins, with
additional editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio. Special thanks to Saskia,
(19:10):
her friends and family, and special thanks to Will Pearson
and Carrie Lieberman. Betrayal's theme is composed by Oliver Bains.
Music library provided by Mob Music and For more podcasts
from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts
Host
Andrea Gunning
Popular Podcasts
Hey Jonas!
Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.