April 15, 2026 • 32 mins
Dr. Dubrow and Dr. Schwartz break down the viral jaw procedure performed on LeAnn Rimes by someone without proper medical training.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome back to Between us Doctors with doctor Terry Brow
and my buddy genius, doctor Robert Schwartz.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Pleasure to be here, and thank you for the intro.
No one else introduces me that way.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
How are you doing? I good?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Great? I am, I am yeah, you know, I'm really
everything is I'm really happy with everything.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Okay, you're enjoying the plastic surgery practice amongst the wild,
crazy things going on in our plastic surgery world right
now between looks maxing and deep plane facelifts and fascial
release of Leanne rhymes. You believe Rob the Bs, that's somebody.
(00:46):
I think let's dedicate this next podcast to calling out
some of the cool stuff that's available in plastic surgery,
but a lot of the BS that people should avoid
know about, right, I think.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
We should dedicate, you know, this podcast in its entirety
to this, because no, I don't you think I mean, look,
I think you and I are of a similar mindset
of the I don't care.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I'm going to tell the truth. I'm just going to
tell the truth. And I think there's a real lack
of people telling the truth about plastic surgery, this whole industry.
Everything kind of associated with it. It's so much hype
and lying and BS.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
By the way, let's be honest, it's greed based. Let's
be honest. We were part of that culture the first
five years, maybe ten years of our practice. We're worried
about paying our overhead and getting big practices going. It's
a lot easier. I think it's a lot easier to
be at this stage of our career and say we're
going to tell the truth. I think I always did
tell the truth, and I know you always did too.
(01:51):
But I think our sort of propensity to kind of
exaggerate or go with the flow, even though we knew
was BS, was elevated the first five to ten years
of our practice. True, Oh, you don't want to go there,
Maybe that's good question.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I you know, I can. I can tell you one
example and for me and we we were in this
one together. Actually tell me very early on a record
the end light.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Oh remember that there was a laser that came out.
It was like a two hundred and seventy thousand laser. Yeah,
I'm not sure it was in the way of it
was two hundred and seventy thous and by the way,
we will we will pull this back to like the
new stuff going on right now. Have you heard of ZERF?
By the way, x e RF problem. ZERF is the
new non invasive facelift in a laser, okay, and the
(02:41):
things that the claims that are being made everywhere about
this SERF, it's like out of control.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Okay. It's the same claim that's been made for every
new facelift in a laser since the end light till now. Yes,
weirdly enough, there's still faces.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Weirdly yeah, some people are still undergoing expensive surgery because
you know, for all the reported collagen that's been made
by these machines in people's face, is I doubt in
aggregate across the entire globe an entire pound of collagen
has been made?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Ever, Well, it's funny because the latest ad I saw
in Kim Kardashian, by the way, is behind is. You know,
I'm not sure h must be getting paid by ZERF.
I don't know for sure, I have no idea, but
they're using her because she I guess she did ZERF
and she put it on her two billion follower Instagram
or something. And the claim that I just saw today
to day that says ZERF is appropriate for those who
(03:43):
don't want to have a facelift yet, or those who
have had a facelift and want to keep it looking
the way it is. Basically everybody, if you have a face, right,
if you had happened had a facelift, it's perfect. It's which
by the way, it's implying it's going to give you
a facelift.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, looks, all of these machines are appropriate. I think
for anyone who has several thousand dollars that they don't
want there you.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Go, right, that's that's you know, right, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
There's a reason. Look, you know, so back to the
end light, Okay, because I think because I think that
was that was a turning point for me. Now, I
don't think i've ever I don't think I've ever really lied. No,
you know, I don't. I don't think i've misrepresented. I
think i've I'd like to think I've always run an
ethical practice. I've been honest with my patients, and I
(04:35):
feel like I've always had the standpoint of if I'm
not going to either do it myself or I'm not
going to do it on a loved one or offer
to a loved one. I'm not offering it to a point. Okay,
that's always been my standard.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Okay, but how many times did we go to meetings
in our first five years when some guy would get
up and go, oh my gosh, if you put mesh,
which is like super expensive lining in a breast and
with an implant, it'll prevent capsular contractor And you went
right back after seeing his study of what eight people
in his practice that he said didn't yes, that he
(05:10):
said didn't develop caps or contractors he's been following for
like all three weeks, and then you go back to
your practice go, oh my gosh, I'm going to start
selling mesh because it's cool to do. Technically, it's expensive,
it ups the price of the thing, and that guy
said it works. So ethically I can feel okay about
it because I went to the American SIETI plus surgery
meeting and this guy told me it worked. And even
(05:32):
though we knew scientifically, okay, that a study of eight
in some older guy's practice who's starting to slow down
trying to find a way to market his practice is
probably worthless in terms of actual real results. Not probably
it completely is.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, yeah, it's not science.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah, that's the problem. So this end light was a
I'm not sure it looked basically, it was the first
laser and they they literally and it was a major company. Okay,
it came out with this machine. It was like a
pharmaceutical company no longer exists, I remember, And it came
out that with this laser. That said, it completely gets
(06:11):
rid of wrinkles with zero downtime, like like you can't
even see that it's actually doing anything. There's no redness,
there's no scabbing, there's no pain, there's no discomfort. And
the reason why it had no recovery is because.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
It didn't didn't do anything.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
It didn't do anything, yes, remember.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
And yeah, it didn't do anything.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
So there's a flashlight there. Yeah, there was one thousand
dollars flash flow.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Inside and there's like a light bulb in there and
like a fiber optic cable.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But by the way, you couldn't buy the machine. No,
you had to like they had. You had to have
it brought into your office and they would charge you
like per zap. Yes, so, and I remember you and
I The meeting was in Dallas where they introduced this,
and they had hundreds of plastic surgeons. They're introducing this, right,
And this was where I first heard the phrase, oh,
(07:03):
it's been tested for years in Denmark. Oh remember that?
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yes, I go ooh.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
And then it's only years later that I realized testing
anything in a country without plaintiff's attorneys is worthless.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
That's a very good point.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
It really so. It did nothing. And so look, I
feel like my failure in this was at the time.
I don't think I was lying, you know, I don't.
I don't think I was ever intentionally deceiving patients on anything,
and I don't think you were either. No, plenty of
people have done this over the years. I really believe
this thing. My failure at that point I was very
(07:42):
new in practice. Has came out was maybe two years
into my practice, and I hadn't realized the level of bullshit. Yes,
that these companies are capable. Right, And it did basically nothing.
And later they revived to say, well, it doesn't really
eliminate wrinkles. It makes shrinkles fifty percent better. Right, it didn't.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
It didn't do it.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Even if it did, making a wrinkle fifty percent better
when you think about it is useless. Yes, you still
have a wrinkle. No one ever comes in and goes
you know, I like my wrinkles. I just want them
to be fifty percent is deep. Right.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
So I think the two things that are out right
now that are so new that we really have no
idea whether they work or not. Is ZERF for sure, correct,
this new ZERF thing that they're saying it is expensive
to do it and there's no downtime and it's giving
you facelift. And then the other thing is I think
(08:39):
it's the deep plane facelift. It's the two hundred and
fifty to five hundred thousand dollars facelift. Okay, that yeah,
five doctor. There are certain doctors that are on the
list that are known to do a deep plane facelift.
They're literally charging two hundred and fifty to five hundred thousand. Now.
I saw a couple of patients the other day done
by one of these four hundred and fifty four hundred
(09:01):
and fifty thousand dollars deep plane facelift, and they were
both incredibly unhappy, and they flew to another state to
have them redone. And they each paid an additional five
hundred thousand. Okay, so they each paid over a million
dollars to have facelift surgery, and it just I mean,
(09:22):
at the end of the day, how much do you
think people should pay for a facelift, A good, a
really well performed facelift.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
I was going to say fifty to one hundred.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
At most, Yeah, depending on the at all.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Hard to justify anything. But the reason people are paying.
These guys are charging that much is because they can
get away with it, right. I think the mistake that
people make is they, like in a lot of things,
they associate price with quality. So I'm not convinced that
all of the people who are charging this much are
in truth doing a true extended deep plane facelift. Yeah,
(09:55):
I'm not so sure about that it's true because I
think we talked on a previous episode there are a
bunch of people around me now who are suddenly doing
deep plane pricelifts right that have never done it in
twenty plus years of practicing. I'm finding it really hard
to believe that the results that they were getting before,
which are remarkably similar to the results that they're getting now,
(10:17):
are coming from new some new technique that they've adopted.
The reality is is you have no way as a
consumer of knowing exactly what technique your doctor used in
the or it's but regardless, I don't fault these guys.
If someone's willing to pay them, that go ahead. But
if you think that you're getting something better by spending
that much money, you're not.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
What I've noticed is that they're not. Holy grail right
now is to do a facelift on a reality star
or an actress or celebrity who's willing within the first
month to come out and say that doctor did me,
because you know how, everybody looks brilliant in the first
month after a facelift for just the.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Right amount of swelling. Is a beautiful gift after a facelift, Yeah,
it's it's a little bit of residual like baby fat appearance.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
To Yeah, so listen, you guys out there, don't be
fooled by the two hundred and fifty thousand dollars facelift.
It is not a thing. You don't need to spend
that much money to have a really well executed facelift,
right And then what about exactly and what's going wrong
with the bleferoplasts these days? Okay, the upper and lower well,
the upper blepheroplasty. I mean, we've seen a lot of
(11:29):
male celebrities have this blepheroplasty, meaning it's too much skin
taken from your upper lit and look really weird. Okay,
that's the thing about a bleferoplasty. It's it's a it's
a very simple procedure technically, but it's extraordinarily variable in
terms of the result in many way.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
What do you think, Yeah, I think it's a deceptively
simple operator. Yeah, because it's a simple operation to do,
but it's very unforgiving because a millimeter too much or
too little skin removed, and look, too little skin removed.
Not the worst thing in the world because you can
always take it right, but a millimeter or two too
(12:10):
much that you've taken and it's always a judgment call
on this, and particularly in a man, your eyes look
weird and a man you look feminized. So get away
with a little more on a woman, but not on
a guy. Right.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
So, I because we've talked about some of the celebrities
that have and you're not going to name names right now,
but I will tell you I was watching this news
report yesterday while I was in the gym, and have
you seen Bill O'Reilly not recently. Check out Bill O'Reilly. Okay,
I have no idea Bill O'Reilly has had upper and
lower bluff in a facelift. I have no idea if
(12:46):
he's had that or not. But look at Bill O'Reilly.
It's the upper lid syndrome, male blefroplastic syndrome disaster desure.
If you ask me, it's just you know, I just
it's and you know what, the same five surgeons who
are doing these deep planes on these reality starts, who
(13:08):
are coming out and talking about their faces are doing
these people too. It's the same people. Okay, So you know,
just because you've seen one or two good results doesn't
necessarily mean everybody's having that. I always say, we talked
about this last time. If you could see that the
ten percent of our results that were not happy, no
one would ever have plastics thirty from any plastic surgeon ever. Well.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Also, I think be very careful about looking at the
results that you're seeing in people whose appearance is their brand. Yeah,
because those people have a strong incentive. First of all,
you're never going to see them photographed in a way
that is not optimal for their brand and their appearance.
You're never going to see that. You're never going to
(13:52):
see them unfiltered, you're never going to see them not
perfectly lit. You're never going to see them without the
right makeup on. You're just never going to see this
level of celebrity that way. So when you're looking at
this result where you're like, Wow, that's the best baselift
I've ever seen, it's not.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
It's a whole combination of things going on, and it's
probably a good facelift. But if you think that any
of these people are getting a result that is an
order of magnitude better than the typical facelift, they're not
because biology doesn't permit that.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
It doesn't. Okay, so but let's let's temper this with
something positive. Okay, facists work. Yeah, it's a very good operation.
We many, most plastic surgeons do a very conventional, adequate facelift.
It should be between thirty. You know, if you're in Missouri, well,
there's a less surgeon Missouri, I thinks, yeah. Yeah. But
(14:44):
if you're in you know, some part of the Midwest
where things are less expensive, Okay, maybe you pay twenty
for a facelift. If you're in you know, Beverly Hills,
or you're in Manhattan. Maybe you pay a lot more,
but at the end of the day, you know, we're
all training at the same places. You know, we're all
doing a lot of surgery, and you don't necessarily have
(15:07):
to pay that kind of money or and when it
comes to doing your upper lids, tell them to go light,
you can always take a little bit more. So I
think it's a These are good operations, very good. But
let's go back to the ZERF thing for a second,
and then I want to talk about this leanne rhymes
with the fashion release, which is I just cracked up
when I saw this.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Okay, oh yeah, Okay, let's save enough time for this.
I know, Okay, I need, I need to have a
moment to release my trauma over it.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Well, I think that that fascial release is really just
a wallet release of their cash.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Let's let's come back to that.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Okay, eat tail though too enjoyable. Let's wrap up with
the ZERF thing. Okay, because I think you watch and
if you haven't heard of the XRF thing, you're about
to because if you're listening to this podcast, your phone
(16:05):
knows you're listening to it. Your phone is aware that
we're talking about zerf. So next time you mindlessly scroll,
you're gonna scroll by zerfing. Okay, But the results that
are being promised right now, at least with my mindless
scrolling when I'm doing it when I'm working out, is
it's very endlighty. It's very sort of ridiculous. It's so
(16:28):
ridiculously unrealistic and promising that, you know, over promising that.
I have a buddy who just got it, and I
was going, hmm, you got it doneer, you bought the
he bought the machine, and I go, maybe I'll go
have a couple of those. Yeah, I sort of, you know,
for a moment, and I went, wait a minute, Wait
(16:48):
a minute. You've been down this road before. Yeah, I mean,
but but the truth is, you know, it's funny. I
interviewed on TMZ today TMZ Live, me and Harvey. I
love doing that. Harvey's fun and it goes viral and
if you're a narcissist and you love to do things
in social media and nothing better than beyond TMZ and
Harvey asked me about AI and medicine and AI and
(17:11):
plastic surgery in the future, you realize, you know, AI
is developing and evolving so rapidly right that I actually
think we are hopefully on the cusp of something that's
going to give a skin tighty without having to take
a scalpel to the skin and scissors and you know,
(17:33):
blood letting and all the things we do. It's got
to happen. I mean, you know this thing is going
to cure cancer and cardiovasca disease. I mean, it's sure.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I actually don't know that.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
You don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
You and I have fundamentally different views of we do
AI is going. We do about this a lot of No,
I don't not, not as not at press. It's not imminent,
is what I'm saying. I can tell you, Okay, from
my experience, there are numerous problems with this. And I'm
speaking of someone who spent heen to twenty hours coding
with AI this weekend this past weekend, Okay, not like
(18:04):
you know other people who use chat Gypt to ask
burning questions like how famous is doctor Terry Brow by
the way it goes, Really the difference in the last
three hours really.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
By the way, so full disclosure, I have asked chatpt
that question, and you know what it says, you don't
have to love about chat chebt chat ChiPT is so
obsequious that it goes, oh, you're so famous, and it'll
(18:40):
it'll list this thing with you know you've done this,
You've done that. I'm going, oh, I love you chat ChiPT.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
You have to tell it not to do that. I
know you don't want to do that. No. Yeah, So
I spent a long time this weekime, and one of
the things I'm working on it is just organizing, you know,
twenty plus years of patient photos, right, and so these
people say like, oh, you can now go into Claude
and type in what you want and it spits out
a completed app for you. Yeah no, no, no, you
(19:11):
can't not even close. And by the way, it does
the kind of things that you really wouldn't want your
surgeon doing. Like at one point it oopsie deleted ten
thousand photos. Really yeah no, I got them all back.
And I know enough in this that I got to
code this in such a way that there's a you know,
there's a there's a lifeboat, there's a way to get out.
(19:33):
So I restored everything immediately as soon as I saw
that it did this. But like when I go Hey,
I think you deleted a bunch of photos that I
needed when like, no, you don't need those, right, And
I'm like, yeah, yeah I do. And then it goes, oh, yeah,
I can see why you would want them. I go, yeah,
let's get them back. So that's fine when I'm deleting photos.
It's not so fine when it goes oh, yeah, you
know what, you know what that that was deliver not
(19:56):
the spleen. You're right, that's a problem.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Oh when it takes out out Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
And it takes out your liver and not your spleen
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
The surgeon did that, right, what did they do?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
That was? Yeah, that's an actual story.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, yeah, a surgeon recently.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
That one's really inexplicable.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yeah, let's not. We don't want to scare the audience.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Surgery, Well, you and I don't operate on the liver
or the spot. No, well we used to, we did,
and we never mistook one for the other.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Have you seen this thing where and I know you
have where Leanne Rhyme's okay, was undergoing this intra oral
like temporal mandibular fascial release by the human garage practitioner.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Practitioner.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
So have you seen this. This is a thing. I oh, yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
And anyone, you know, anyone listening to this, you really
need to watch this video. Yeah, you need to appreciate this.
And it's fullest.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yes, so I saw it. There's this guy okay who,
as far as I can tell, doesn't have any formal
training in any health field at all at all.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I believe he actually brags about that.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Oh is that right? And and basically cures all that
ails you from the list or psychiatric issues to pure
physiologic based issues to a whole host of other things
through a combination starting with fascial release, which is basically
(21:34):
at least for Leanne rhymes case. And you have to
see you haven't seen this, you have to see the video.
He takes try to.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Describe what happens. Yeah, what happens in this video?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, you discrirebe You let me describe. You describe it, Okay,
He takes He takes his gloved thumbs. At least he
has had gloves on. I thought that was pretty good. Yeah,
And he sticks it in LeAnn Rhyme's mouth. Way back
along the upper portion and number palette where the temporal
mandibular joint is and if you put your finger back
(22:05):
there on each side, it's extraordinary. I did it last night.
It's extraordinarily sensitive. It's one of those weird pressure points
where even if you do it just lightly, it really hurts. Okay,
but I guess what he does is, and I've now
looked at a couple of these videos. He presses so
hard that it sends you into some pain area that's
(22:31):
so severe. It's almost like you know, taking smoking, you know,
warped toad or toad juice, you know, like a cycle,
you know, like the Mike Tyson thing. You know, you
go to these places and you've never seen these documentaries,
and then.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
You and I have a very different Instagram feed.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah, and you know you could take this massive psychedelic
and have like a two week trip. But it's so
extraordinarily painful that virtually everyone he's done it on, and
many of them famous literally ball their eyes out like
their babies, and and they purport to have like this
(23:12):
almost post procedure religious experience that accures them of I mean,
by the way, I look this up in Open Evidence,
which is a app AI app that we as doctors
have access to. If you have an NPI provider number,
and it is an accepted procedure in some literature for TMJ,
(23:36):
for temporal mandibular disease of some kind. It is I
don't know how effective it is that somebody said that
he can give you a sixty percent improvement in some
kinds of TMJ. But to attribute that treatment to fixing,
you know, childhood trauma, and that's what that's what I guess, Leanna,
(23:56):
And it's it is and among other things, it's unbelieve,
it's scary. I'm sure they're charging for this. It's celebrity based,
you know, in terms of its promulgation to others. And
it's really out of control, don't you agree.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I watched this video on my first thought was, oh,
and by the way, okay, first of all, it's extraordinarily painful.
Yeah okay, so uh yeah, not surprising that it elicits tears.
But there's actually more to it than that. And this
is the genius of it, okay, because what he's doing
in there, among other things, is he is putting massive
(24:40):
pressure on your medial terragoid muscle, okay, which triggers the
maxillary branch of the trigeminal But I don't want to
make this two technical. It's a major sensory nerve in
your face right, which has something called the trigemino vaguel reflex.
When you stimulate this, it's like doing a major vegus
(25:04):
nerve stimulation, so it won It immediately drops your heart
rate and your blood pressure, which coupled with the sudden
relief of pain, your brain interprets as a major cathartic moment.
There's nothing going on. You don't have trauma stored childhood
(25:26):
trauma stored in your jaw muscles or adult trauma. And
if you have that much trauma in your jaw muscles,
you need to care seriously think about what you're putting
in your mouth, because this is just a scam. Yeah, okay,
you're triggering a vegus nerve response that will make people
(25:47):
feel like something that's been released, like there's been a catharsisy.
It will make you cry, Okay, it will do this.
You're not relieving any trauma from this. No one is
healed of emotional wounds by this thing. Are there many
places in the body that are scarier to operate on
than the area around the TMJ and the neck in
(26:14):
the area of the cranial nerves and the carotid and
the external jugular. That is not an area for the
faint of heart. It really isn't. And this is someone
who is applying major blunt force to those structures. So
let's so I'm not holding back here because frankly, this
(26:40):
is disgraceful and it's incredibly dangerous. So first of all,
there's a reason they tell you not to check your
pulse by feeling your carotid artery, and that's because in
some people it stimulates the vagual nerve, and in the
wrong person that causes a cardiac arrest, which is not
something you really want to have happen in any garage,
(27:02):
even if it's a human right.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
The vague nerve slows down your heart rate. In fact,
it does so paradoxically, meaning it's the weirdest thing. When
you're super anxious or you're super scared by something, you
would think you'd have a fight or flight response. Your
heart rate goes up, your blood pressure goes up. But weirdly,
(27:26):
if your vagus nerve gets stimulated, paradoxically, it does exactly
the opposite. It slows your heart rate so that your
blood pressure to your brain is not supported and you
pass out, you get.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
It creates a simulated effect of a release of anxiety.
It's the same thing like when people who have to
speak in public take a beta blocker, it slows down
their heart rate. You're not doing anything to their anxiety.
It's just your brain is interpreting the fact that your
heart rate isn't going up and you're not sweating it
(28:00):
as much as the fact that you're less anxious. Yeah,
it's not curing your.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Anxiety, right, it's kind of a defect of mother nature
that you're so scared. Maybe it's better just to pass out, right, Yeah,
it's it's I'm not sure evolutionarily why we're programmed that way,
but it's certainly a defect in our system. When you're scared,
you should speed up your heart rate, get the hell
out of there, and go. But people paradoxically sometimes pass out,
(28:26):
which is really weird.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Okay, well, which is okay, not the end of the world,
I guess, so long as that pass out isn't because
from your heart stopping.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Maybe it's maybe see you know a bear is about
to attack you and you play dead. Maybe you played it.
Maybe that is the move certainly if you're in a
car accident and you fall asleep right before impact, it's
been shown you'll probably have a lot less.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
But the same way, I don't want to try and
release and during my childhood traumas by having a bear
attack me. That's very true, you know, for people who
are considering this, Okay, let me just give you a
brief list of what can go wrong from doing from
a lot of force in that area. Okay, so we've
(29:12):
already talked about It can stop your heart. Okay, bad,
if you have atherosclerosis in your coroni artery, you could
break that offah and have an immediate stroke.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Send a clock to your brain.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, yeah, it can. And by the way, the stimulating
the gag reflex does the same thing as this, which
they're doing at the same time as well, because you know,
there's those fingers just roaming over that whole area. It
can fracture a little bone at the base of your
skull called the styloid process, which one is incredibly painful,
but two it has this funny tendency when it gets
(29:48):
fractured to cut through the carotid artery and the internal
jugular vein, which would kill you instantly. You know, just
stimulation of the vaguel nerve is a problem. You can
cause all kinds of nerve damage to the muscles that
control your face and give sensation to it. All of
these things are known phenomena and known risks of doing this,
(30:12):
And so if first of all, no one should be
doing this. And by the way, yes, in some cases
of TMJ, this kind of thing can make it better,
I would say, done by a qualified yeah. Yeah, but
also it can do what they're doing, can dislocate your
(30:34):
TMJ or make a normal TNJ two lacks that now
it dislocates on its own, or it can fracture your TMJ.
So you don't want anyone doing this on you, least
of all someone who is a self trained.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
What self professed professed yes of the art.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
So yeah, So look, I think I think part of
the reason things gain popularity is because people are and
I think justify justifiably distrustful of the healthcare industry, right,
you know, and I think certainly pharmaceutical industry, the FDA,
(31:22):
certainly health insurance companies, and a lot of doctors have
done things to cause that distrust. And so I don't
argue with that in fact, and a lot of it.
I agree with people. But the fact that you're distrustful
of everything you hear about coming out of the medical
industry doesn't mean you automatically trust someone who's not in
the medical industry. It doesn't make them more trustworthy. I
(31:46):
would still trust science over a guy who's just going like, yeah,
I taught myself this and I kind of, you know,
invented it.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Yeah, because I said so, Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Don't trust that less. We live in an age where
it's easy to verify what people are saying. Yeah, it
doesn't take a whole lot. Now, I think there's a
little research in this.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I think it's very well.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
And minutes and minutes there's a good use for AI.
Ten minutes on AI will tell you why you shouldn't
do this.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
That's true. Okay, we're gonna wrap this up as a
part one, and when we come back as a part two,
we're going to talk about listener questions. We're going to
answer a whole bunch of listener questions about man submandivors
or gland shaving with a deep faith facelift, the best
procedures to have financially, and a whole bunch of other questions.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
That we've been asked.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Okay, all right, so stay tuned for that
Welcome back to Between us Doctors with doctor Terry Brow
and my buddy genius, doctor Robert Schwartz.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Pleasure to be here, and thank you for the intro.
No one else introduces me that way.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
How are you doing? I good?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Great? I am, I am yeah, you know, I'm really
everything is I'm really happy with everything.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Okay, you're enjoying the plastic surgery practice amongst the wild,
crazy things going on in our plastic surgery world right
now between looks maxing and deep plane facelifts and fascial
release of Leanne rhymes. You believe Rob the Bs, that's somebody.
(00:46):
I think let's dedicate this next podcast to calling out
some of the cool stuff that's available in plastic surgery,
but a lot of the BS that people should avoid
know about, right, I think.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
We should dedicate, you know, this podcast in its entirety
to this, because no, I don't you think I mean, look,
I think you and I are of a similar mindset
of the I don't care.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I'm going to tell the truth. I'm just going to
tell the truth. And I think there's a real lack
of people telling the truth about plastic surgery, this whole industry.
Everything kind of associated with it. It's so much hype
and lying and BS.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
By the way, let's be honest, it's greed based. Let's
be honest. We were part of that culture the first
five years, maybe ten years of our practice. We're worried
about paying our overhead and getting big practices going. It's
a lot easier. I think it's a lot easier to
be at this stage of our career and say we're
going to tell the truth. I think I always did
tell the truth, and I know you always did too.
(01:51):
But I think our sort of propensity to kind of
exaggerate or go with the flow, even though we knew
was BS, was elevated the first five to ten years
of our practice. True, Oh, you don't want to go there,
Maybe that's good question.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I you know, I can. I can tell you one
example and for me and we we were in this
one together. Actually tell me very early on a record
the end light.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Oh remember that there was a laser that came out.
It was like a two hundred and seventy thousand laser. Yeah,
I'm not sure it was in the way of it
was two hundred and seventy thous and by the way,
we will we will pull this back to like the
new stuff going on right now. Have you heard of ZERF?
By the way, x e RF problem. ZERF is the
new non invasive facelift in a laser, okay, and the
(02:41):
things that the claims that are being made everywhere about
this SERF, it's like out of control.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Okay. It's the same claim that's been made for every
new facelift in a laser since the end light till now. Yes,
weirdly enough, there's still faces.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Weirdly yeah, some people are still undergoing expensive surgery because
you know, for all the reported collagen that's been made
by these machines in people's face, is I doubt in
aggregate across the entire globe an entire pound of collagen
has been made?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Ever, Well, it's funny because the latest ad I saw
in Kim Kardashian, by the way, is behind is. You know,
I'm not sure h must be getting paid by ZERF.
I don't know for sure, I have no idea, but
they're using her because she I guess she did ZERF
and she put it on her two billion follower Instagram
or something. And the claim that I just saw today
to day that says ZERF is appropriate for those who
(03:43):
don't want to have a facelift yet, or those who
have had a facelift and want to keep it looking
the way it is. Basically everybody, if you have a face, right,
if you had happened had a facelift, it's perfect. It's which
by the way, it's implying it's going to give you
a facelift.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, looks, all of these machines are appropriate. I think
for anyone who has several thousand dollars that they don't
want there you.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Go, right, that's that's you know, right, you know.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
There's a reason. Look, you know, so back to the
end light, Okay, because I think because I think that
was that was a turning point for me. Now, I
don't think i've ever I don't think I've ever really lied. No,
you know, I don't. I don't think i've misrepresented. I
think i've I'd like to think I've always run an
ethical practice. I've been honest with my patients, and I
(04:35):
feel like I've always had the standpoint of if I'm
not going to either do it myself or I'm not
going to do it on a loved one or offer
to a loved one. I'm not offering it to a point. Okay,
that's always been my standard.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Okay, but how many times did we go to meetings
in our first five years when some guy would get
up and go, oh my gosh, if you put mesh,
which is like super expensive lining in a breast and
with an implant, it'll prevent capsular contractor And you went
right back after seeing his study of what eight people
in his practice that he said didn't yes, that he
(05:10):
said didn't develop caps or contractors he's been following for
like all three weeks, and then you go back to
your practice go, oh my gosh, I'm going to start
selling mesh because it's cool to do. Technically, it's expensive,
it ups the price of the thing, and that guy
said it works. So ethically I can feel okay about
it because I went to the American SIETI plus surgery
meeting and this guy told me it worked. And even
(05:32):
though we knew scientifically, okay, that a study of eight
in some older guy's practice who's starting to slow down
trying to find a way to market his practice is
probably worthless in terms of actual real results. Not probably
it completely is.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, yeah, it's not science.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah, that's the problem. So this end light was a
I'm not sure it looked basically, it was the first
laser and they they literally and it was a major company. Okay,
it came out with this machine. It was like a
pharmaceutical company no longer exists, I remember, And it came
out that with this laser. That said, it completely gets
(06:11):
rid of wrinkles with zero downtime, like like you can't
even see that it's actually doing anything. There's no redness,
there's no scabbing, there's no pain, there's no discomfort. And
the reason why it had no recovery is because.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
It didn't didn't do anything.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
It didn't do anything, yes, remember.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
And yeah, it didn't do anything.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
So there's a flashlight there. Yeah, there was one thousand
dollars flash flow.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Inside and there's like a light bulb in there and
like a fiber optic cable.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But by the way, you couldn't buy the machine. No,
you had to like they had. You had to have
it brought into your office and they would charge you
like per zap. Yes, so, and I remember you and
I The meeting was in Dallas where they introduced this,
and they had hundreds of plastic surgeons. They're introducing this, right,
And this was where I first heard the phrase, oh,
(07:03):
it's been tested for years in Denmark. Oh remember that?
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yes, I go ooh.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
And then it's only years later that I realized testing
anything in a country without plaintiff's attorneys is worthless.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
That's a very good point.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
It really so. It did nothing. And so look, I
feel like my failure in this was at the time.
I don't think I was lying, you know, I don't.
I don't think I was ever intentionally deceiving patients on anything,
and I don't think you were either. No, plenty of
people have done this over the years. I really believe
this thing. My failure at that point I was very
(07:42):
new in practice. Has came out was maybe two years
into my practice, and I hadn't realized the level of bullshit. Yes,
that these companies are capable. Right, And it did basically nothing.
And later they revived to say, well, it doesn't really
eliminate wrinkles. It makes shrinkles fifty percent better. Right, it didn't.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
It didn't do it.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Even if it did, making a wrinkle fifty percent better
when you think about it is useless. Yes, you still
have a wrinkle. No one ever comes in and goes
you know, I like my wrinkles. I just want them
to be fifty percent is deep. Right.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
So I think the two things that are out right
now that are so new that we really have no
idea whether they work or not. Is ZERF for sure, correct,
this new ZERF thing that they're saying it is expensive
to do it and there's no downtime and it's giving
you facelift. And then the other thing is I think
(08:39):
it's the deep plane facelift. It's the two hundred and
fifty to five hundred thousand dollars facelift. Okay, that yeah,
five doctor. There are certain doctors that are on the
list that are known to do a deep plane facelift.
They're literally charging two hundred and fifty to five hundred thousand. Now.
I saw a couple of patients the other day done
by one of these four hundred and fifty four hundred
(09:01):
and fifty thousand dollars deep plane facelift, and they were
both incredibly unhappy, and they flew to another state to
have them redone. And they each paid an additional five
hundred thousand. Okay, so they each paid over a million
dollars to have facelift surgery, and it just I mean,
(09:22):
at the end of the day, how much do you
think people should pay for a facelift, A good, a
really well performed facelift.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
I was going to say fifty to one hundred.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
At most, Yeah, depending on the at all.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Hard to justify anything. But the reason people are paying.
These guys are charging that much is because they can
get away with it, right. I think the mistake that
people make is they, like in a lot of things,
they associate price with quality. So I'm not convinced that
all of the people who are charging this much are
in truth doing a true extended deep plane facelift. Yeah,
(09:55):
I'm not so sure about that it's true because I
think we talked on a previous episode there are a
bunch of people around me now who are suddenly doing
deep plane pricelifts right that have never done it in
twenty plus years of practicing. I'm finding it really hard
to believe that the results that they were getting before,
which are remarkably similar to the results that they're getting now,
(10:17):
are coming from new some new technique that they've adopted.
The reality is is you have no way as a
consumer of knowing exactly what technique your doctor used in
the or it's but regardless, I don't fault these guys.
If someone's willing to pay them, that go ahead. But
if you think that you're getting something better by spending
that much money, you're not.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
What I've noticed is that they're not. Holy grail right
now is to do a facelift on a reality star
or an actress or celebrity who's willing within the first
month to come out and say that doctor did me,
because you know how, everybody looks brilliant in the first
month after a facelift for just the.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Right amount of swelling. Is a beautiful gift after a facelift, Yeah,
it's it's a little bit of residual like baby fat appearance.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
To Yeah, so listen, you guys out there, don't be
fooled by the two hundred and fifty thousand dollars facelift.
It is not a thing. You don't need to spend
that much money to have a really well executed facelift,
right And then what about exactly and what's going wrong
with the bleferoplasts these days? Okay, the upper and lower well,
the upper blepheroplasty. I mean, we've seen a lot of
(11:29):
male celebrities have this blepheroplasty, meaning it's too much skin
taken from your upper lit and look really weird. Okay,
that's the thing about a bleferoplasty. It's it's a it's
a very simple procedure technically, but it's extraordinarily variable in
terms of the result in many way.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
What do you think, Yeah, I think it's a deceptively
simple operator. Yeah, because it's a simple operation to do,
but it's very unforgiving because a millimeter too much or
too little skin removed, and look, too little skin removed.
Not the worst thing in the world because you can
always take it right, but a millimeter or two too
(12:10):
much that you've taken and it's always a judgment call
on this, and particularly in a man, your eyes look
weird and a man you look feminized. So get away
with a little more on a woman, but not on
a guy. Right.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
So, I because we've talked about some of the celebrities
that have and you're not going to name names right now,
but I will tell you I was watching this news
report yesterday while I was in the gym, and have
you seen Bill O'Reilly not recently. Check out Bill O'Reilly. Okay,
I have no idea Bill O'Reilly has had upper and
lower bluff in a facelift. I have no idea if
(12:46):
he's had that or not. But look at Bill O'Reilly.
It's the upper lid syndrome, male blefroplastic syndrome disaster desure.
If you ask me, it's just you know, I just
it's and you know what, the same five surgeons who
are doing these deep planes on these reality starts, who
(13:08):
are coming out and talking about their faces are doing
these people too. It's the same people. Okay, So you know,
just because you've seen one or two good results doesn't
necessarily mean everybody's having that. I always say, we talked
about this last time. If you could see that the
ten percent of our results that were not happy, no
one would ever have plastics thirty from any plastic surgeon ever. Well.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Also, I think be very careful about looking at the
results that you're seeing in people whose appearance is their brand. Yeah,
because those people have a strong incentive. First of all,
you're never going to see them photographed in a way
that is not optimal for their brand and their appearance.
You're never going to see that. You're never going to
(13:52):
see them unfiltered, you're never going to see them not
perfectly lit. You're never going to see them without the
right makeup on. You're just never going to see this
level of celebrity that way. So when you're looking at
this result where you're like, Wow, that's the best baselift
I've ever seen, it's not.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
It's a whole combination of things going on, and it's
probably a good facelift. But if you think that any
of these people are getting a result that is an
order of magnitude better than the typical facelift, they're not
because biology doesn't permit that.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
It doesn't. Okay, so but let's let's temper this with
something positive. Okay, facists work. Yeah, it's a very good operation.
We many, most plastic surgeons do a very conventional, adequate facelift.
It should be between thirty. You know, if you're in Missouri, well,
there's a less surgeon Missouri, I thinks, yeah. Yeah. But
(14:44):
if you're in you know, some part of the Midwest
where things are less expensive, Okay, maybe you pay twenty
for a facelift. If you're in you know, Beverly Hills,
or you're in Manhattan. Maybe you pay a lot more,
but at the end of the day, you know, we're
all training at the same places. You know, we're all
doing a lot of surgery, and you don't necessarily have
(15:07):
to pay that kind of money or and when it
comes to doing your upper lids, tell them to go light,
you can always take a little bit more. So I
think it's a These are good operations, very good. But
let's go back to the ZERF thing for a second,
and then I want to talk about this leanne rhymes
with the fashion release, which is I just cracked up
when I saw this.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Okay, oh yeah, Okay, let's save enough time for this.
I know, Okay, I need, I need to have a
moment to release my trauma over it.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Well, I think that that fascial release is really just
a wallet release of their cash.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Let's let's come back to that.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Okay, eat tail though too enjoyable. Let's wrap up with
the ZERF thing. Okay, because I think you watch and
if you haven't heard of the XRF thing, you're about
to because if you're listening to this podcast, your phone
(16:05):
knows you're listening to it. Your phone is aware that
we're talking about zerf. So next time you mindlessly scroll,
you're gonna scroll by zerfing. Okay, But the results that
are being promised right now, at least with my mindless
scrolling when I'm doing it when I'm working out, is
it's very endlighty. It's very sort of ridiculous. It's so
(16:28):
ridiculously unrealistic and promising that, you know, over promising that.
I have a buddy who just got it, and I
was going, hmm, you got it doneer, you bought the
he bought the machine, and I go, maybe I'll go
have a couple of those. Yeah, I sort of, you know,
for a moment, and I went, wait a minute, Wait
(16:48):
a minute. You've been down this road before. Yeah, I mean,
but but the truth is, you know, it's funny. I
interviewed on TMZ today TMZ Live, me and Harvey. I
love doing that. Harvey's fun and it goes viral and
if you're a narcissist and you love to do things
in social media and nothing better than beyond TMZ and
Harvey asked me about AI and medicine and AI and
(17:11):
plastic surgery in the future, you realize, you know, AI
is developing and evolving so rapidly right that I actually
think we are hopefully on the cusp of something that's
going to give a skin tighty without having to take
a scalpel to the skin and scissors and you know,
(17:33):
blood letting and all the things we do. It's got
to happen. I mean, you know this thing is going
to cure cancer and cardiovasca disease. I mean, it's sure.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I actually don't know that.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
You don't know.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
You and I have fundamentally different views of we do
AI is going. We do about this a lot of No,
I don't not, not as not at press. It's not imminent,
is what I'm saying. I can tell you, Okay, from
my experience, there are numerous problems with this. And I'm
speaking of someone who spent heen to twenty hours coding
with AI this weekend this past weekend, Okay, not like
(18:04):
you know other people who use chat Gypt to ask
burning questions like how famous is doctor Terry Brow by
the way it goes, Really the difference in the last
three hours really.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
By the way, so full disclosure, I have asked chatpt
that question, and you know what it says, you don't
have to love about chat chebt chat ChiPT is so
obsequious that it goes, oh, you're so famous, and it'll
(18:40):
it'll list this thing with you know you've done this,
You've done that. I'm going, oh, I love you chat ChiPT.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
You have to tell it not to do that. I
know you don't want to do that. No. Yeah, So
I spent a long time this weekime, and one of
the things I'm working on it is just organizing, you know,
twenty plus years of patient photos, right, and so these
people say like, oh, you can now go into Claude
and type in what you want and it spits out
a completed app for you. Yeah no, no, no, you
(19:11):
can't not even close. And by the way, it does
the kind of things that you really wouldn't want your
surgeon doing. Like at one point it oopsie deleted ten
thousand photos. Really yeah no, I got them all back.
And I know enough in this that I got to
code this in such a way that there's a you know,
there's a there's a lifeboat, there's a way to get out.
(19:33):
So I restored everything immediately as soon as I saw
that it did this. But like when I go Hey,
I think you deleted a bunch of photos that I
needed when like, no, you don't need those, right, And
I'm like, yeah, yeah I do. And then it goes, oh, yeah,
I can see why you would want them. I go, yeah,
let's get them back. So that's fine when I'm deleting photos.
It's not so fine when it goes oh, yeah, you
know what, you know what that that was deliver not
(19:56):
the spleen. You're right, that's a problem.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Oh when it takes out out Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
And it takes out your liver and not your spleen
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
The surgeon did that, right, what did they do?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
That was? Yeah, that's an actual story.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, yeah, a surgeon recently.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
That one's really inexplicable.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yeah, let's not. We don't want to scare the audience.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Surgery, Well, you and I don't operate on the liver
or the spot. No, well we used to, we did,
and we never mistook one for the other.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Have you seen this thing where and I know you
have where Leanne Rhyme's okay, was undergoing this intra oral
like temporal mandibular fascial release by the human garage practitioner.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Practitioner.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
So have you seen this. This is a thing. I oh, yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
And anyone, you know, anyone listening to this, you really
need to watch this video. Yeah, you need to appreciate this.
And it's fullest.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yes, so I saw it. There's this guy okay who,
as far as I can tell, doesn't have any formal
training in any health field at all at all.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I believe he actually brags about that.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Oh is that right? And and basically cures all that
ails you from the list or psychiatric issues to pure
physiologic based issues to a whole host of other things
through a combination starting with fascial release, which is basically
(21:34):
at least for Leanne rhymes case. And you have to
see you haven't seen this, you have to see the video.
He takes try to.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Describe what happens. Yeah, what happens in this video?
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, you discrirebe You let me describe. You describe it, Okay,
He takes He takes his gloved thumbs. At least he
has had gloves on. I thought that was pretty good. Yeah,
And he sticks it in LeAnn Rhyme's mouth. Way back
along the upper portion and number palette where the temporal
mandibular joint is and if you put your finger back
(22:05):
there on each side, it's extraordinary. I did it last night.
It's extraordinarily sensitive. It's one of those weird pressure points
where even if you do it just lightly, it really hurts. Okay,
but I guess what he does is, and I've now
looked at a couple of these videos. He presses so
hard that it sends you into some pain area that's
(22:31):
so severe. It's almost like you know, taking smoking, you know,
warped toad or toad juice, you know, like a cycle,
you know, like the Mike Tyson thing. You know, you
go to these places and you've never seen these documentaries,
and then.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
You and I have a very different Instagram feed.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah, and you know you could take this massive psychedelic
and have like a two week trip. But it's so
extraordinarily painful that virtually everyone he's done it on, and
many of them famous literally ball their eyes out like
their babies, and and they purport to have like this
(23:12):
almost post procedure religious experience that accures them of I mean,
by the way, I look this up in Open Evidence,
which is a app AI app that we as doctors
have access to. If you have an NPI provider number,
and it is an accepted procedure in some literature for TMJ,
(23:36):
for temporal mandibular disease of some kind. It is I
don't know how effective it is that somebody said that
he can give you a sixty percent improvement in some
kinds of TMJ. But to attribute that treatment to fixing,
you know, childhood trauma, and that's what that's what I guess, Leanna,
(23:56):
And it's it is and among other things, it's unbelieve,
it's scary. I'm sure they're charging for this. It's celebrity based,
you know, in terms of its promulgation to others. And
it's really out of control, don't you agree.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I watched this video on my first thought was, oh,
and by the way, okay, first of all, it's extraordinarily painful.
Yeah okay, so uh yeah, not surprising that it elicits tears.
But there's actually more to it than that. And this
is the genius of it, okay, because what he's doing
in there, among other things, is he is putting massive
(24:40):
pressure on your medial terragoid muscle, okay, which triggers the
maxillary branch of the trigeminal But I don't want to
make this two technical. It's a major sensory nerve in
your face right, which has something called the trigemino vaguel reflex.
When you stimulate this, it's like doing a major vegus
(25:04):
nerve stimulation, so it won It immediately drops your heart
rate and your blood pressure, which coupled with the sudden
relief of pain, your brain interprets as a major cathartic moment.
There's nothing going on. You don't have trauma stored childhood
(25:26):
trauma stored in your jaw muscles or adult trauma. And
if you have that much trauma in your jaw muscles,
you need to care seriously think about what you're putting
in your mouth, because this is just a scam. Yeah, okay,
you're triggering a vegus nerve response that will make people
(25:47):
feel like something that's been released, like there's been a catharsisy.
It will make you cry, Okay, it will do this.
You're not relieving any trauma from this. No one is
healed of emotional wounds by this thing. Are there many
places in the body that are scarier to operate on
than the area around the TMJ and the neck in
(26:14):
the area of the cranial nerves and the carotid and
the external jugular. That is not an area for the
faint of heart. It really isn't. And this is someone
who is applying major blunt force to those structures. So
let's so I'm not holding back here because frankly, this
(26:40):
is disgraceful and it's incredibly dangerous. So first of all,
there's a reason they tell you not to check your
pulse by feeling your carotid artery, and that's because in
some people it stimulates the vagual nerve, and in the
wrong person that causes a cardiac arrest, which is not
something you really want to have happen in any garage,
(27:02):
even if it's a human right.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
The vague nerve slows down your heart rate. In fact,
it does so paradoxically, meaning it's the weirdest thing. When
you're super anxious or you're super scared by something, you
would think you'd have a fight or flight response. Your
heart rate goes up, your blood pressure goes up. But weirdly,
(27:26):
if your vagus nerve gets stimulated, paradoxically, it does exactly
the opposite. It slows your heart rate so that your
blood pressure to your brain is not supported and you
pass out, you get.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
It creates a simulated effect of a release of anxiety.
It's the same thing like when people who have to
speak in public take a beta blocker, it slows down
their heart rate. You're not doing anything to their anxiety.
It's just your brain is interpreting the fact that your
heart rate isn't going up and you're not sweating it
(28:00):
as much as the fact that you're less anxious. Yeah,
it's not curing your.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Anxiety, right, it's kind of a defect of mother nature
that you're so scared. Maybe it's better just to pass out, right, Yeah,
it's it's I'm not sure evolutionarily why we're programmed that way,
but it's certainly a defect in our system. When you're scared,
you should speed up your heart rate, get the hell
out of there, and go. But people paradoxically sometimes pass out,
(28:26):
which is really weird.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Okay, well, which is okay, not the end of the world,
I guess, so long as that pass out isn't because
from your heart stopping.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Maybe it's maybe see you know a bear is about
to attack you and you play dead. Maybe you played it.
Maybe that is the move certainly if you're in a
car accident and you fall asleep right before impact, it's
been shown you'll probably have a lot less.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
But the same way, I don't want to try and
release and during my childhood traumas by having a bear
attack me. That's very true, you know, for people who
are considering this, Okay, let me just give you a
brief list of what can go wrong from doing from
a lot of force in that area. Okay, so we've
(29:12):
already talked about It can stop your heart. Okay, bad,
if you have atherosclerosis in your coroni artery, you could
break that offah and have an immediate stroke.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Send a clock to your brain.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, yeah, it can. And by the way, the stimulating
the gag reflex does the same thing as this, which
they're doing at the same time as well, because you know,
there's those fingers just roaming over that whole area. It
can fracture a little bone at the base of your
skull called the styloid process, which one is incredibly painful,
but two it has this funny tendency when it gets
(29:48):
fractured to cut through the carotid artery and the internal
jugular vein, which would kill you instantly. You know, just
stimulation of the vaguel nerve is a problem. You can
cause all kinds of nerve damage to the muscles that
control your face and give sensation to it. All of
these things are known phenomena and known risks of doing this,
(30:12):
And so if first of all, no one should be
doing this. And by the way, yes, in some cases
of TMJ, this kind of thing can make it better,
I would say, done by a qualified yeah. Yeah, but
also it can do what they're doing, can dislocate your
(30:34):
TMJ or make a normal TNJ two lacks that now
it dislocates on its own, or it can fracture your TMJ.
So you don't want anyone doing this on you, least
of all someone who is a self trained.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
What self professed professed yes of the art.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
So yeah, So look, I think I think part of
the reason things gain popularity is because people are and
I think justify justifiably distrustful of the healthcare industry, right,
you know, and I think certainly pharmaceutical industry, the FDA,
(31:22):
certainly health insurance companies, and a lot of doctors have
done things to cause that distrust. And so I don't
argue with that in fact, and a lot of it.
I agree with people. But the fact that you're distrustful
of everything you hear about coming out of the medical
industry doesn't mean you automatically trust someone who's not in
the medical industry. It doesn't make them more trustworthy. I
(31:46):
would still trust science over a guy who's just going like, yeah,
I taught myself this and I kind of, you know,
invented it.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Yeah, because I said so, Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Don't trust that less. We live in an age where
it's easy to verify what people are saying. Yeah, it
doesn't take a whole lot. Now, I think there's a
little research in this.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I think it's very well.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
And minutes and minutes there's a good use for AI.
Ten minutes on AI will tell you why you shouldn't
do this.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
That's true. Okay, we're gonna wrap this up as a
part one, and when we come back as a part two,
we're going to talk about listener questions. We're going to
answer a whole bunch of listener questions about man submandivors
or gland shaving with a deep faith facelift, the best
procedures to have financially, and a whole bunch of other questions.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
That we've been asked.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Okay, all right, so stay tuned for that
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