January 30, 2026 • 40 mins
Captain Ron is joined by Aerospace Systems Analyst and UFO Researcher Dr. Doug Buettner as they discuss his current work with SCU (the Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies) and his work on a technology to help improve UFO data quality.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM
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and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with
Captain Ron.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
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We would like to encourage you to do your own
(00:42):
research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week are Beyond Contact.
We'll explore the latest news and ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Welcome to Beyond Contact. I am Captain ronin Today we're
speaking with doctor Doug Bettner. Doctor Betner is an aerospace
systems analyst and UFO UAP researcher specializing in scientific evaluation
of unidentified aerial phenomenon. He serves on the board of
the Scientific Coalition of UAP Studies as CU, where he
conducts detailed case analysis and contributes to peer reviewed research
(01:34):
aimed at distinguishing genuine anomalies from misidentified aerospace and astronomical objects.
He is also the co founder and chief technologist of
cit dot io, a crowdsourced observation platform designed to improve
UAP data quality through triangulation and geospatial analysis. Welcome doctor,
(01:56):
So nice to have you here.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
Oh, thank you. I'm very happy to be invited. I
mean you've got quite quite the following.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
So we're very happy. How things are going. Contexts going great.
I want to ask you this. So you've been investigating
this and looking at UAP and looking at aspects of
the phenomenon for quite some time, and I was wondering,
looking at all the data that you have over this time,
have you moved one way or another? Like at this point,
(02:22):
do you feel it's more likely that there's something offworld
or alien about this? Or are you feeling the more
I dig into us, the more none of this is real.
It's most likely a terrestrial explanation.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
Well, a great question. So you know, the thing is,
it's such a multifaceted problem. I mean, there's not just
one angle on it. You know, if you start looking carefully,
I mean doing your own research and diving into the
different kinds of craft that get reported and what i'll
call the history reports going back. I mean me personally.
(02:57):
The reason I'm even interested in the subject is because,
you know, my grandfather passed away before I was born,
but apparently, in nineteen forty seven flap in Portland, Oregon,
my mom and cousins and stuff say that my grandfather
saw a UFO out in the field behind their house.
And now, you know, the stories over the years have
(03:17):
changed in terms of I thought, I remember hearing that
he had actually seen aliens walking around it. But at
a minimum, I mean, that's a documented case. I mean
you can go look it up in Michael Sword Robert
Powell's book. Now, the thing that happened about three years later.
My mom was only about three at that time, well
actually two at that time. She said about when she
(03:38):
was five is she's she reported seeing a couple of
the UAPs. So, you know, growing up with this, these
you know, these stories, the family lore, if you will,
got me interested in the subject. I mean reading about
it when I was a kid. But you know, then
I started getting into into science and physics and what
have you, and doing stuff for NASA. I mean, it
was doing more you know what we could actually do ourselves. Right.
(04:00):
But now when I when I moved out here to Utah,
I started getting interested in the Skinwalker ranch and watching
some of what they've got on video. I came to
I came to a conclusion it's either it's either a
lie or it's the truth, right, And the only way
I'm going to find out is is researching myself. And
I've talked to a lot of people in the community,
you know, I hear lots of great stories. Personally, I'm
(04:22):
a I'm a physical evidence kind of guy.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
You know.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
I do a lot of the analysis on the videos
and photographs, and I'm still I'm still waiting for a
smoking gun. So I'll keep I'll keep crossing my fingers
that I'll you know, come across it. But I mean,
based on the statistics that you know I've read about
and seeing, you know, the vast majority of stuff is
going to be prosaic objects. Unfortunately, what we're looking really
(04:46):
for is that smoking gun or that two or three spece.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
I don't say unfortunately, like I sure you would say
The data is the data. It is what it is.
If most of it has an explanation that way, then
most of it does. I mean that's where I live
right dead center on this issue.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
Man.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
I mean, I'm i want to see what the data is.
Speaker 5 (05:01):
And I'm going to sit on the fence and I
tell people, I'm coming at it with an open mind.
You know, give me your give me your best. I'll
recall resurge and look into it.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
What sort of evidence do you feel makes a case
more credible versus one that's more likely a natural explanation
or clearly misidentified or even disinformation.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
That's great, I would say. You know, for example, the
Phoenix case, you know, the multiple lights and many witnesses.
The more evidence you can get a photographic from different
areas and stuff you can accumulate all that, right, those
cases are are wonderful. Anything again, with physical evidence, things
that we can analyze, things I can go pote if
(05:42):
I have, if I have another roswell, which would be awesome.
I mean, then you can start doing isotopic analysis on
peace parts and stuff. You know, my good friend Match
and August is that kind of stuff. I mean, it's
it's just that from a hard science or a physical
science standpoint, that's what you need. You need that physical
evidence to really start turning the vast majority of the
(06:04):
scientific community.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
It seems like there's this real divide on this topic.
Like in today's politics, for example, people have chosen their
team and they stick to it no matter what. So
as we saw recently, you know, you can show any
two people of the same video and they will see
two different things depending on their affiliation. I feel like
it's exactly the same in the UFO community. A UFO
(06:27):
believer might see any light that's not immediately identified as
an alien piloted UFO craft, but a non believer will
dismiss it no matter how convincing it is. Yes, this
is why I'm always pushing for more scientific rigor and
study on this topic to hopefully get closer to a
mutual understanding of what's actually happening. What do you think
(06:48):
prevents many people in the scientific community from taking on
this topic even today?
Speaker 5 (06:54):
Oh boy, you know this stigma is still alive and
well it really is. I hate to say it that
it is, you know, I watch of the I would say,
you know, bigger names in the science community, they definitely
have already weighed in on on site. I mean, you
can sit there and watch their podcast. A'll leve their
name out of it, but you can tell there's a
bias towards that opinion.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Right.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
That's not a true scientist. A true scientist will say,
show me the evidence. You know, I'll sit on the
fence until you know the evidence can sway me one
way or the other. You know, I keep hoping that
you know, there is a crash retrieval program out there,
and in some days there will at some day or
some point, there will be some kind of a disclosure, right,
And I would say independent scientists can come in look
(07:33):
at what it's there, do those types of analysis, the
is topic or what have you, and come at it
completely outside of of the normal realm of that community
and look at things and then you know, polish report, Yeah,
this is what we found. Here's the materials that we've
subtracted an extract.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
What about this problem that we have that that this
might not be something that science can pinpoint or necessarily
get the answer to, Like this is not something we
can repeatably test in a lab, you know, does that
take away from the need to study it the best
we can.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Well, you got to remember the scientists slow. I hate
to say that, but sacial it is. It is beyond glacial.
It's a you know, I would say worse than a
uh you know, I come up with the best glacial example.
The problem is, you're right, we can't. We can't exactly
stuff it into a lab and then starting and repeated
(08:26):
experiments on easily anyway. That's where you see lots of
shows where you know, they're trying to bring the lab
out to it. Now, I will have my let's say,
Pet Peeves about some of those shows. I don't know
the the equipment that they're using. I don't know that
it hasn't been tampered with, you know, those kinds of things.
When I come at it from a I will say,
a skeptical scientist point of view, and that's where it
(08:48):
would great, you know, And you've had some of these
people on your podcast. I'm sure where it would be
wonderful if they actually had things that you know, when
I've developed, you know, some of the systems that I've
for the Department of Defense, Department of War. Now, if
we have things that we do to I would say,
lockdown equipment right to make sure it hasn't been tampered with,
(09:10):
tamper proof seals. You know, there's rigor in terms of
how the equipment is handled and done for what we
call a qualification test, right, so the government knows that
what the contractors providing has actually gone through all the
rigor that you know that what they're providing is going
to be what you're going to get. There's things like
that that I would love to see brought to the
(09:30):
table in this entire community.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
What do you think the strongest argument against the et
hypothesis would be, in your view, a.
Speaker 5 (09:39):
Lack of physical evidence. I would say physical evidence that
anybody can go look at or anybody can go analyze, right,
even the parts, right that are supposedly running around out there.
You know, I've seen one. It's got to have very
very carefully monitored tracked associations. You need to know where
it came from. I mean, you know, I love Robert
Pali's book in some of his work because I know
(10:02):
he's got a case in terms of, well, if somebody
does have an implant, he's got a certain set of
characteristics and ways that it should be extracted and then
monitor tagged and tracked after that point, chain of custody
of the whole thing, absolutely exactly. And that's that's exactly
what we do for stuff when we build it for
Department of Defense. You got a chain of custody.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Take a break right there. We'll come right back and
ask doctor Bettner what he thinks about what may really
be behind the UFO phenomenon. You're listening to Beyond Contact
on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
(10:49):
We are back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with doctor Bettner.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Doctor.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
When you and Ben look at a case, you guys
take a serious deep dive in all of these all
sorts of data actually, from topography to geology to everything
in between. I feel like technology is really a double
edged sword here. On one hand, we have all this
data that we are now able to collect and have
access to, such as you presented at Contact. When you
(11:16):
researched that case with the girl who shot the video
through the plane window, which you pretty much concluded was
a balloon. You were able to access weather sites that
gave you the wind speed and wind direction. You were
able to access airline sites that gave you the flight
path and the flight direction. You looked at solar sites
that allowed you to calculate the time of day based
on the shadows from where the plane was and would
(11:38):
have been at that time. There's a lot of math here,
and we won't go down that hole, but on and
on it was fantastic. On the other hand, I have
just read how over twenty percent of all YouTube shorts
videos are now completely AI generated to farm clicks, which
is only going to get worse. So we have other
(11:58):
technologies from photoshop and editing software to create all this
misinformation outright hoaxes as well as intentional disinformation. All of
it muddies the waters. So how do you combat these issues?
And do you think they will make this type of
investigation all the more difficult?
Speaker 5 (12:16):
Well, that is a wonderful question. So if you go
look at a sue apps. A year and a half ago,
I gave a talk on exactly that problem, and I
showed how easy it is, and I pulled stuff off
the Internet right to hoax UFOs and people love doing it.
They get a kick out of it. For what ever,
are you know? I don't even know where to start
on that one. But the thing that you know, we're
(12:37):
trying to propose is you know what, I need a
chain of custody when it starts to come into what
your camera captures, right, And this goes back the entire
idea behind side it. It's coming off your camera, it's
in an encrypted network, you submit it, and it's being
submitted with metadata where was your phone pointed and all
that kind of great information that we need and we
(13:00):
need to trust and rely on. If I'm not having
to spend a good chunk of my time trying to
authenticate what I'm looking at that month of time I'm
spending analyzing your data versus trying to make you.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Let's jump to that part, which is the important part.
Speaker 5 (13:14):
Yes, you know, for example Logwood, ye case, I'm working
within the SU analyzing that data. So we got a
nice chain of custody on that. They've done a lot
of work, great upfront to show yeah, that did in
fact come off of border patrol and customs aircraft. And
so it's like that chain of custody aspect I don't
have to worry about. I can invent tools, I can
(13:35):
come up with new processes, I can throw new algorithms
at stuff, you know, to where you're actually utilizing my
best part of me in my background, in terms of
what I can bring to the table in analyzing these
kinds of cases.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Are there any specific historical cases that you believe deserve
renewed scientific investigation today? You know, the way you guys
broke down that case, the airline case, I'd love to
see that done with all of these ros well in others.
You know, I know, I realized this is a lot
of time and a lot of money, so and you
guys generously do this for free.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
So yeah, it's like coming out of our retirement funds.
I'll tell you.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Yeah, there you go. You know.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
The one that I keep going back to is that
Phoenix case. It's like, where's the radar data? Where's the
you know, I know the government has the radar data.
I know they've got it squirrelled away somewhere. Where is
all the videos? You know, people had to have taken videos,
they had to have taken it from different directions. You know,
there are cams out there that probably got squirrelled away,
(14:35):
you know, doorbell cameras and what have you. Right, come on,
I mean, we can go through and probably do a
better job on that. Whether anybody's done or not I
haven't paid attention, but that's one case that keeps coming
to mind.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Man, I think if that happened today twenty twenty six, Wow,
we would have a thousand different videos from every possible
angle and you could really pin down what happened.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
Right yep, very easily.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
And if this does have a non human component to it, Doc,
what do you think it's most likely? Do you think
it's like an interdimensional traveler, a time traveler, aliens from
another planet in our universe, or do you think it
could have something more to do with consciousness? Perhaps?
Speaker 5 (15:16):
You know, I will say that I'm going to start
with a consciousness one and work my way backwards. I
think there's a consciousness part of it. And I and
the only reason I say that is, you know, Barber's
work and his disclosure there with some of those individuals
that you know apparently can use there they're just mind
capabilities or mental powers, what have you? To try and
coax these things in, you know, those kinds of things.
(15:40):
It's like, gosh, I'd love to be able to go
out as an independent observer on that because I would
put up triangulation cameras really and then just you know,
try and see how quickly thinks something came in or
you know how far away it was. You can do
all that math. So there's that aspect of it, and
then you start going towards things that we really can't
explain yet, you know, like ghosts and what have you.
(16:01):
Some people will figure into your imagination. Will okay, you
can believe that, But I know I talked to a
lot of people said no, yeah, barely. I've seen stuff
pop off the wall and jump across the room. Well great,
that tells me we don't understand everything around us, right,
And just that kind of a thing. If you've got
to go, she got something that is able to basically
still be around. And I'm going to say, from a
(16:22):
physics standpoint, quantum entanglement is probably your best bet for
an explanation there. And if we can quantum entangle, you know,
maybe you can use quantum entanglement forget from one end
of the galaxy to the other end of the galaxy
and nothing flat. There are potentially loopholes that will allow it.
How Kubier's work drive and other things, and so you know,
I would say the vast majority of scientists don't question
whether or not there can be extra extraterrestrial life. I mean,
(16:45):
we can look out there and you know, as Carl
segouind say, billions and billions, right, billions and billions of
galaxies and in those billions of billions of galaxies, billions
and billions of stars. And so the math is with
us that fundamentally et is out there. Now, it's how
do we yes? That is the billion dollar question if.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
You will, you know, and even we have a lot
of people who claim to have interacted with them. So
there's that about what about Skywatcher? Have you heard about
these guys who claim to have the technology for that?
What do you think of it?
Speaker 5 (17:14):
Well, that's what I was trying to say. Jay Barber,
I think is trying to remember his name, Jacob. Yeah.
So you know, we actually met Jake at SCU this
last year. He was there. Interesting, I thought. I heard
that they're closed down though, that they accomplished their their
work and they're now doing other stuff.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
I don't have all the takes in it, but that's
why I said I would love to be an independent
observer on that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Could this even be potentially something that we don't even
have the word for yet to describe properly. I think
you sum that are best. The answer to this whole
thing is what you said. It just shows you. All
of these things show.
Speaker 6 (17:49):
You there's more to this world than we understand. Yet
we don't know everything. We are ants. We are ants
and in a grand universe, and fundamentally our knowledge is
very very limited.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Still more people than others. But we won't go down
that road right now, Doc, let's keep this civil. What
do you think about experience? What do you think that
the experiencers get right, that perhaps skeptics overlook.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
The personal experience right? You know, it's like the entire
reason I even am interested is because of you know,
my story with my grandfather and my mom. So it's
like they tell it it's like they were there. They
can they can recan it like they were there. I
rode with Officer Kleine from the library there, the Mark
Twain Library, over to the site where he believed he was.
You know, he got to remember it was like two
(18:35):
years ago, and he's like, why are they here? I says,
we don't know. I mean fundamentally, when I say we
we collect the weed that you're talking to me now
in terms of if we've got crash retrieval programs and
got an area fifty one location where they got all
these things and they're communicating with them on a daily basis,
maybe they know what's going on, but the grander disclosure
(18:56):
aspect in terms of the general public does not.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Yeah, absolutely, we need to take another break there. Doc.
When we come back, we're going to ask you about
your thoughts on people who claim to have been experiencers
and if you think the government has actually recovered craft.
You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We're back on Beyond Contact.
(19:37):
We're speaking with doctor Doug Bettner. Doc, what do you
think of some of these witnesses, Like you mentioned Officer
Klein from the Connecticut case that you looked at, some
of these people seem to be very credible and make
a very compelling case that what they're seeing is at
the very least something extraordinary.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
Well, I'll tell you a officer how he saw something.
I mean, it shocked him to the core. And if
I see something off in the distance, that's not going
to shock to the core. If I've got something like
forty feet away, like he's saying, and like I told
I world with a guy and he's just like, what
the hell is going on?
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Right?
Speaker 5 (20:10):
And you know my family experience, and you know, I
tried to talk to some of these people. But what
I try to do is I, you know, I've tried
to come at it from again an open mind. Tell
me what you saw, you know, And I'm trying to
pull that emotion out of them when they're explaining it
to me, because it's that emotion that I'm if I
can feel it, I know they felt it, and I
(20:32):
know they they believe that they saw what they saw.
And for us in Ben's team in particular, that's a
key aspect. I mean, we try to protect those people,
and we talk to people and we don't disclose everybody's
name unless they literally allow us to. And so there's
there's an entire psychology, right. You need to trust me
(20:55):
as a scientist that I am going to try and
help you understand what you witnessed.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
And I do like when these people come forward and
they're like and it backs up the video, They're like,
look it was me, I saw it. Here's the video
that I took, you know, the girl on the plane.
She's like, yep, this is me. I filmed this. I
love that. I think that just adds another piece of credibility.
And I love what it's a multiple witness case. Then
then then it's even more so.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
Right, Yeah, and we had a second witness on that aircraft,
that's right, who wanted to remain nameless, and so she
is remaining nameless. But we had a second witness that
was further up in the aircraft and saw something bloom. Yeah,
and then as you went over your head there, as
a matter of fact, it looks just like it. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Well that's what about these people who've made claims of
having a direct alien encounter. I've talked to several of
these and it's very compelling. They certainly believe it.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
What do you think, Wow, you know some of those people,
I would really love it if you could start somehow
documenting it, right, get a camera out there, get you know,
figure out some way. Maybe you have a camera at
a distance, or a couple of cameras at a distance,
or go to bed with a fit bit on.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
They say that this has happened and they've been turned off.
He has an iPhone he took it to Apple and
they said, oh, it's not working because it showed that
you were two thousand feet above your house the GPS.
How about that. That's some interesting data for you exactly.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
That's the kind of physical data we'd like to get,
but you know, we'd like to get it in such
a way that there's corroborating evidence. Right, So there's that
evidence aspect of it. Oh boy, the GPS stuff going
on at Skinwalker Ranch. But don't you get me started there.
You know, just the different aspects of the multiple witnesses
and you know, and multiple data points, you know, two cameras,
(22:50):
three cameras. The more we can get the corroborates data
in one one case is gold. It is literally gold.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
What do you think about the idea that the government
has already recovered non human physical craft and they've been
backward engineering it for years. Do you think there's possibly
any truth?
Speaker 5 (23:08):
I would say there, I would say, it's not it's zero.
Oh really, I would not put it at a harp
sent but it's not zero. I would say, I'm going
to say it's everything I've talked to and and you know,
you know, I came from Aerospace Corporation also did Eric Davis? Right?
You talk to Eric Davis and oh boy, you know,
if anybody convinces you in terms of his stream of consciousness,
(23:31):
and he tells it like he was there, right, he's
not making it up. He says, this is what happened. Right,
Oh my gosh. If you don't come away believe in
it after that, there's no hope.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
I actually going to tell you. Okay, So if you
think it's possible, why are they keeping it so clandestine?
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Very simple national security? The atomic bomb? Okay, what happened
immediately after them bomb went off? Okay? The flap that
you know my grandfather was in was nineteen forty seven, July.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Fourth, right around Roswell by the way.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
Does that sound familiar?
Speaker 4 (24:03):
Oh yeah?
Speaker 5 (24:04):
And then you know, three years later my mom saw something.
And so you know, that was before we literally had
the technologies that could do these kinds of things that
you could mistake. You know, two things in the sky
that goes zip. That kind of stuff just did not
exist at that point, does it now?
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (24:22):
And that makes our job much harder from analytical standpoint.
But I would say if if I was back then
and we had just dropped the bomb and I knew
Russia was trying to develop the bomb. Oh heck, yeah,
I would have. I would have put a classification on
it just like that. Why because we are in an
arms race and that's that's all there is to it.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
People. It makes complete sense to me. I I honestly
believe that, and I think that there's probably a good
reason for it. And you know, also maybe it's something
that they really shouldn't let everybody know because they might
not want to hear it. There's always that possibility.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
There there is that it is.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Yeah, what about the idea of disclosure? You know, what
do you think it would or should look like if
it does happen?
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Wow, that you know, we could have three or four
podcasts just discussing that time.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Yes, we set aside seven hours for you today, Doc.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
So personally, you know, I have an opinion, and I'm
gonna say it is my opinion. I would come out,
you know, this is what it is. Do enough, you know,
so that people can say, yabe early, Yeah, it's true.
You got to do something to help with the religions
and stuff. I Mean, my frustration is I just I
(25:37):
got a sneaking suspicion of the religion is going to
try to capitalize on it, and so that that is
one of my fears. But in particular with you know,
the government and stuff. You know, they already got a
lock on it, assuming that it does exist, it's just
a matter of what's the right way to do it,
to say, minimize strife, you know, allow people to understand, well,
(25:58):
it was cassed by boy. Reason again, national security would
be the reason. If there's technologies allow you to do
stuff that these things can reportedly do. Oh yeah, you're
gonna classify it if you can get it until you
know how to utilize it.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
They see a world of problems. There's gonna be one
million questions if they so much just say that that's real.
You know, you made My grandfather ruined his life and
you know he couldn't talk about this, and you can
imagine the problems this would do. What do you think
would be the worst repercussion from a formal disclosure disclosure?
Speaker 5 (26:30):
Again, my fear is the attempt at the religious trying
to you know, cornershre you know, you know again the
brainwashing parts you know, allow me to be independent, allow
me to think like I want to thank you, don't
you think.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
This could have something to do with you know, free
energy and the global reliance on oil and these kind
of things that I'm not.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
So convinced on that I need, you know, power and
control is my opinion.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
Sure, I understand. Is it possible that there are multiple
different things happening, there's non human intelligences or different Sephard phenomenon.
I don't know why. That's not very possible because there's
a lot of things we don't know, and one hundred
years ago there was a ton of things we don't
know that we know now. And take for granted you
can only imagine a thousand years from now, they're going
to look back and how do they not understand these
(27:14):
simple Oh?
Speaker 5 (27:15):
I mean yeah, I mean you think you look back
at Copernicus right, or you know, pick your favorites just
in the past. You know, you start thinking about how
they got to where they did and what you know.
It's you know, I think it was Newton that said,
you know, I stand on the shoulders of giants. There
was enough around him so we could make additional deductions.
The same thing with us. I mean, we got to
(27:36):
stand on the shoulders of giants. The technologies that are
coming out now, or gosh, I wish twenty years ago
we would have the phones we do now, My Samsung
Ultra twenty five. I mean, gosh, I can do fantastic
stuff with it. It's basically a walking, talking sensor, all
these different modes in it, right, and then now the
ability to network those things. I mean, you know, that's
(27:57):
what all ciders all about is let's take advantage of that.
Let's let you know, put the power into people's hands
to put it out there and then be able to
analyze your work and have other people analyze it. But
I know it came from a trusted source.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Right, yep. I always think about these things. There's so
many examples throughout history where because it's a new idea,
everybody of course is resistant to it because it's not
what they know. Imagine when they first came up with
microscopic organisms. Oh, by the way, your body's covered with
them and you have billions of them inside you, people
are like, you're a crazy person. That's not true. And
(28:31):
now a five year old knows that. Why couldn't that
just be there's another vibrational world that we didn't know
about that exists or whatever. And now everybody knows about it,
you know.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
Yeah again, you know it's like when you say that
I just could I always keep my mind goes back
to Jay Stratton's story about it Skinwalker Ranch, where they
saw that that dark being he couldn't go beyond a
certain place on the ranch and they just they couldn't,
they couldn't physically pass that. That tells me that maybe
this stuff is all interconnected some way, somehow. Again, I'll
(29:02):
go back to the physics I know, and quantum entanglement
is one aspect multidimensional theories of the universe. I mean,
there's things like that that say, yeah, maybe they're.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
True, certainly possible. When we come back, we're going to
ask the doctor about his thoughts on the research that
SCU does, and also ask him about some of the
anomalous video that he himself has caught on video at
his place near Skinwalker Ranch. You're listening to Beyond Contact
on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
(29:49):
We are back on Beyond Contact speaking with doctor Doug Bettner. Doctor,
you are also on the board of SCU, which is
an organization that I very much support in f I
hope to have them at contact again this year. What
are your impressions of the work that's being done there.
Do you feel that it meets the scientific standards that
it needs to when we're investigating a case like this.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
You know, great question. As a board member, I do
not speak for the board. Okay, I can be empowered
to speak for the board, but I am not empowered
to speak for the board. I can speak for myself.
I would say. The consensus that came back is, Hey,
we're still trying to get all of our investigational stuff
put together. We're trying to pull the team together to
do that. We're constantly being asked to review different approaches
(30:34):
and documentation in terms of how we as an organization
will investigate these cases. Code to conduct, I mean code
to conduct is very important for us. We just got
through going through and it takes a while. That's why
I said, you know, it's glacial sciences. So is pulling
together the right approaches, the thoughtful approaches, or when you
send a team out, how do they conduct themselves, how
(30:55):
do they gather evidence, how do they interview witnesses, et cetera,
et cetera. Right now, Fortunately we got some really great
you know, former law enforcement officers that are supporting us
with this, and so we're utilizing some of those techniques,
trying to pull the best of the best, right And
it is a really good board and I'm very very
(31:16):
tickled Pink to have been selected to get on it.
So we're trying to do the right thing.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
Okay, And if you feel like that is quality scientific
work that they're doing, couldn't we take some of the
reports that SCU comes with and give it to more
scientists to take a look at and evaluate for themselves.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
Well, and that's part of the science. That's what science
is all about.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
Right.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
It's published. Okay, it's like I'm going to go to
the augwadeport. They published what they had, They published any
information they had, and then the analytical textiques they used,
you know, in years have passed. You know, we're now
twelve years past that report coming out, actually going on thirteen.
Now we're taking another look at it. And you know, rightfully,
so we've got a few cases out there where people said,
well this is that or the other thing, and so
(31:58):
we're taking another look at the data, right, and we
are bringing additional techniques that we have now that they
did not have. Then we're always getting new board members
and we just got contacted by a guy from cal Tech,
which is you know, can't wait to definely get him
on the on the team. And so we've got you know,
all these great i'd say, people that are just donating
(32:18):
their time, they're donating their experience, radar, you know, optical techniques.
You know, we're trying to bring the full bearer. But
you know, unfortunately, you know, you get what you pay for,
and right now we we work on people donating money.
So you know, put a pitch out there for money.
If you really want the good science, you got to
you got to put the bucks.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
In absolutely, and they're they're doing great stuff. Now what
about the thing that you yourself. You have a place
that's right near the famous Skinwalker ranch. And I understand
you've caught a few anomalies on video.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
I've got, well, I should technically say two one I
look at closely. The other other one I didn't just
because I didn't have the time. But all I'm gonna
do is call it a light anomally Okay. I literally
I showed it to Jay Stratton and Jay Stratton goes,
I think you caught a word. I said, Jay, I'm
not ready to go there yet. I said, I can.
(33:10):
I can tell you what I can do with the
video that I've got. Unfortunately, it's one of these game cameras,
and you don't have a lot of capability of the
game camera, especially when it's JPEG compressed video or images
both right, And it just happened to be a checking image.
So these cameras will check in twice a day, well
I should say once a day and once a night.
(33:31):
Telvar's apart, just as a kind of I'm alive type thing,
and then if there's any movement they will capture things.
So in a check in video, I had something I
would say, a small little light very bright where there
should not have been a light. And the analysis I
did is I have obviously a day image, right, so
(33:51):
I can see exactly where it is, and then I
have a night image from the night before. And so
what I can do is I can do subtraction, and
I can say I can show you right where it is.
On top of that, I can show you effects around
it that did not show up the night before. And
so at that time my neighbors they had a gate
that kind of swung out between my place and their place,
(34:12):
and it was kind of swung out into my property,
and you can see reflection off of that gate. In addition,
there's a I'm going to call it a pile of
garbage that was behind the light source, and you can
see reflection off that pile of garbage in the back.
So I know it's somewhere in that gap right right.
(34:34):
But you look at the daytime video and there is
nothing there.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (34:40):
And I've got lots and lots of cases where I've
got cars going up and down the road all the time.
People were like, could it be a reflection? I got
reflection off of what There's nothing there, And so that's
why I call it a light anomaly. Am I going
to call it in a word? No? Because I got
one image and it just had it would be an
extreme lucky shot if I did. Now I will say
that I have another one. I was about a year
(35:03):
later where it was along that same line of site,
just a little further out, kind of over the road,
but I couldn't really tell it was over the road
or on the on the other side of the road
from my property. So I didn't spend a lot of
time looking at that one. But I will tell you
that whereas one time I was out there with my
wife because we just go out there and it's almost
like camping trip for us. On top of that, we
took a horse trail and converted it into something we
(35:25):
could sleep in. I to make it cost effective. But
the thing we did is I was I was sick
that night and my wife was out walking the dogs
and she said she saw something off in our neighbor's
field behind us, which is literally between between us and Skinwalker.
And she said she saw something that was kind of
(35:46):
down in the in the grass, and she said, I
was going to call you, but I knew you didn't
feel good, and so I don't know what it was.
But she said it was very light bright, and when
she saw the image, she goes, it looked like that.
Oh wow, So she saw something out there.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
So it sits in the gray basket for now right.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
It's in the I can't explain it.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
So I understand you've been looking at that fascinating case
that we talked about earlier from Officer twying client. Excuse
me calling Connecticut. It's been two years now that you've
been looking at that. Have you guys got any closer
to an explanation of what could be happening.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
I would say we're still on the We're still investigating.
I've actually created a proposal to go out there, and
the first part of it is what I call let's
get rid of all the potential prosaics, right, and so
we've got a proposal for putting some location cameras around
with twenty four to seven video. We actually have a
(36:43):
camera out there now, but we need better sensors to
where literally we can do frame by frame differency. A
lot of these cameras don't do that, or it's going
to be some kind of an IR triggered motion type thing,
and so we literally have to build our own equipment.
We've been working with some individuals only their name off
of it, but that are trying to develop that. SCU
has actually got a project right now to also develop
(37:05):
that kind of technology to where what we can do
is put it in multiple locations and get triangulation. Right
with the triangulation, we'll be able to say how far
away it is. If we got very good timestamps, we
can correlate that with air traffic. We want to incorporate
other modalities, And when I use the word modality, that
means for example, radar radio, other kinds of radio other
(37:28):
than just radar aspects, for example infrasound. There's a whole
suite of different things we can do. And fundamentally, right now,
it's prove it isn't prosaic. I e move that way
down in the list of potential and then we can
then go, okay, what is it?
Speaker 4 (37:44):
Right right? I always feel like eliminate those things first,
then we'll jump to this one.
Speaker 5 (37:50):
That's unfortunately the name of the game.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
So all you scientists are always calling for more data.
Tell us about this cider dot io that you've come
up with that, how does that work? And how can
that get us closer to the answer?
Speaker 5 (38:04):
Well, the entire goal there. And so me and another
guy are working on some stuff and unfortunately this isn't
our day jobs. It was our day jobs, we'd already
have it out right, we're working on updates for it
right now. It is literally an MVP. It just kind
of goes you, shows you how what your interaction would be,
and show you stuff that you could do with it.
What we want to do is we actually want to
(38:26):
connect that to a back end database, and in that
back end database automate a lot of the analysis that
I personally do, right, but allow you to do it.
And so you basically have the access to you know,
people like me, other experts, smeeze and the optical analysis.
And the thing is if we can get multiple phones
people's phones with you know, triangulated locations. Unfortunately, what really
(38:50):
to get it properly funded is we got to ask
you for money for something, right, and so possibly the
back end database aspect and being able to to go
in and do the analysis yourself or interface with other
individuals as a community would be the part that we'd
you know, try and get money for because we've got
(39:11):
to fund the next technology. You got to fund the
advancements and the algorithms and things of that nature. So
that's that's currently what's kind of going on behind the scenes.
Nothing is imminent. But once we get past that, once
you start having a revenue stream, that's when the vcs
are interested. Right, you got to show that you can
make one. Until that point, they don't want to talk
to us.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
Thanks doctor, really appreciate it, really fascinating stuff. Appreciate you
taking the time you can.
Speaker 7 (39:34):
Find doctor Bittner at g I T h u B
dot com backslash d R do O U g B,
or you can check out his UFO reporting site at
sitter dot io. You guys can find me on Twitter
and Instagram at c I T D Underscore Captain Ron.
Stay connected by checking out contact inthedesert dot com.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
Stay open minded and rational as we explore the unknown
right here on the iHeartRadio and the Coast to Coast
a paranormal podcast.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
to iHeartRadio dot com
You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM
Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,
and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with
Captain Ron.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only,
and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast to
Coast AM, employees of Premiere Networks, or their sponsors and associates.
We would like to encourage you to do your own
(00:42):
research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week are Beyond Contact.
We'll explore the latest news and ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we talk with the top experts.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Welcome to Beyond Contact. I am Captain ronin Today we're
speaking with doctor Doug Bettner. Doctor Betner is an aerospace
systems analyst and UFO UAP researcher specializing in scientific evaluation
of unidentified aerial phenomenon. He serves on the board of
the Scientific Coalition of UAP Studies as CU, where he
conducts detailed case analysis and contributes to peer reviewed research
(01:34):
aimed at distinguishing genuine anomalies from misidentified aerospace and astronomical objects.
He is also the co founder and chief technologist of
cit dot io, a crowdsourced observation platform designed to improve
UAP data quality through triangulation and geospatial analysis. Welcome doctor,
(01:56):
So nice to have you here.
Speaker 5 (01:57):
Oh, thank you. I'm very happy to be invited. I
mean you've got quite quite the following.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
So we're very happy. How things are going. Contexts going great.
I want to ask you this. So you've been investigating
this and looking at UAP and looking at aspects of
the phenomenon for quite some time, and I was wondering,
looking at all the data that you have over this time,
have you moved one way or another? Like at this point,
(02:22):
do you feel it's more likely that there's something offworld
or alien about this? Or are you feeling the more
I dig into us, the more none of this is real.
It's most likely a terrestrial explanation.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
Well, a great question. So you know, the thing is,
it's such a multifaceted problem. I mean, there's not just
one angle on it. You know, if you start looking carefully,
I mean doing your own research and diving into the
different kinds of craft that get reported and what i'll
call the history reports going back. I mean me personally.
(02:57):
The reason I'm even interested in the subject is because,
you know, my grandfather passed away before I was born,
but apparently, in nineteen forty seven flap in Portland, Oregon,
my mom and cousins and stuff say that my grandfather
saw a UFO out in the field behind their house.
And now, you know, the stories over the years have
(03:17):
changed in terms of I thought, I remember hearing that
he had actually seen aliens walking around it. But at
a minimum, I mean, that's a documented case. I mean
you can go look it up in Michael Sword Robert
Powell's book. Now, the thing that happened about three years later.
My mom was only about three at that time, well
actually two at that time. She said about when she
(03:38):
was five is she's she reported seeing a couple of
the UAPs. So, you know, growing up with this, these
you know, these stories, the family lore, if you will,
got me interested in the subject. I mean reading about
it when I was a kid. But you know, then
I started getting into into science and physics and what
have you, and doing stuff for NASA. I mean, it
was doing more you know what we could actually do ourselves. Right.
(04:00):
But now when I when I moved out here to Utah,
I started getting interested in the Skinwalker ranch and watching
some of what they've got on video. I came to
I came to a conclusion it's either it's either a
lie or it's the truth, right, And the only way
I'm going to find out is is researching myself. And
I've talked to a lot of people in the community,
you know, I hear lots of great stories. Personally, I'm
(04:22):
a I'm a physical evidence kind of guy.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
You know.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
I do a lot of the analysis on the videos
and photographs, and I'm still I'm still waiting for a
smoking gun. So I'll keep I'll keep crossing my fingers
that I'll you know, come across it. But I mean,
based on the statistics that you know I've read about
and seeing, you know, the vast majority of stuff is
going to be prosaic objects. Unfortunately, what we're looking really
(04:46):
for is that smoking gun or that two or three spece.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
I don't say unfortunately, like I sure you would say
The data is the data. It is what it is.
If most of it has an explanation that way, then
most of it does. I mean that's where I live
right dead center on this issue.
Speaker 5 (04:59):
Man.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
I mean, I'm i want to see what the data is.
Speaker 5 (05:01):
And I'm going to sit on the fence and I
tell people, I'm coming at it with an open mind.
You know, give me your give me your best. I'll
recall resurge and look into it.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
What sort of evidence do you feel makes a case
more credible versus one that's more likely a natural explanation
or clearly misidentified or even disinformation.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
That's great, I would say. You know, for example, the
Phoenix case, you know, the multiple lights and many witnesses.
The more evidence you can get a photographic from different
areas and stuff you can accumulate all that, right, those
cases are are wonderful. Anything again, with physical evidence, things
that we can analyze, things I can go pote if
(05:42):
I have, if I have another roswell, which would be awesome.
I mean, then you can start doing isotopic analysis on
peace parts and stuff. You know, my good friend Match
and August is that kind of stuff. I mean, it's
it's just that from a hard science or a physical
science standpoint, that's what you need. You need that physical
evidence to really start turning the vast majority of the
(06:04):
scientific community.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
It seems like there's this real divide on this topic.
Like in today's politics, for example, people have chosen their
team and they stick to it no matter what. So
as we saw recently, you know, you can show any
two people of the same video and they will see
two different things depending on their affiliation. I feel like
it's exactly the same in the UFO community. A UFO
(06:27):
believer might see any light that's not immediately identified as
an alien piloted UFO craft, but a non believer will
dismiss it no matter how convincing it is. Yes, this
is why I'm always pushing for more scientific rigor and
study on this topic to hopefully get closer to a
mutual understanding of what's actually happening. What do you think
(06:48):
prevents many people in the scientific community from taking on
this topic even today?
Speaker 5 (06:54):
Oh boy, you know this stigma is still alive and
well it really is. I hate to say it that
it is, you know, I watch of the I would say,
you know, bigger names in the science community, they definitely
have already weighed in on on site. I mean, you
can sit there and watch their podcast. A'll leve their
name out of it, but you can tell there's a
bias towards that opinion.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Right.
Speaker 5 (07:12):
That's not a true scientist. A true scientist will say,
show me the evidence. You know, I'll sit on the
fence until you know the evidence can sway me one
way or the other. You know, I keep hoping that
you know, there is a crash retrieval program out there,
and in some days there will at some day or
some point, there will be some kind of a disclosure, right,
And I would say independent scientists can come in look
(07:33):
at what it's there, do those types of analysis, the
is topic or what have you, and come at it
completely outside of of the normal realm of that community
and look at things and then you know, polish report, Yeah,
this is what we found. Here's the materials that we've
subtracted an extract.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
What about this problem that we have that that this
might not be something that science can pinpoint or necessarily
get the answer to, Like this is not something we
can repeatably test in a lab, you know, does that
take away from the need to study it the best
we can.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Well, you got to remember the scientists slow. I hate
to say that, but sacial it is. It is beyond glacial.
It's a you know, I would say worse than a
uh you know, I come up with the best glacial example.
The problem is, you're right, we can't. We can't exactly
stuff it into a lab and then starting and repeated
(08:26):
experiments on easily anyway. That's where you see lots of
shows where you know, they're trying to bring the lab
out to it. Now, I will have my let's say,
Pet Peeves about some of those shows. I don't know
the the equipment that they're using. I don't know that
it hasn't been tampered with, you know, those kinds of things.
When I come at it from a I will say,
a skeptical scientist point of view, and that's where it
(08:48):
would great, you know, And you've had some of these
people on your podcast. I'm sure where it would be
wonderful if they actually had things that you know, when
I've developed, you know, some of the systems that I've
for the Department of Defense, Department of War. Now, if
we have things that we do to I would say,
lockdown equipment right to make sure it hasn't been tampered with,
(09:10):
tamper proof seals. You know, there's rigor in terms of
how the equipment is handled and done for what we
call a qualification test, right, so the government knows that
what the contractors providing has actually gone through all the
rigor that you know that what they're providing is going
to be what you're going to get. There's things like
that that I would love to see brought to the
(09:30):
table in this entire community.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
What do you think the strongest argument against the et
hypothesis would be, in your view, a.
Speaker 5 (09:39):
Lack of physical evidence. I would say physical evidence that
anybody can go look at or anybody can go analyze, right,
even the parts, right that are supposedly running around out there.
You know, I've seen one. It's got to have very
very carefully monitored tracked associations. You need to know where
it came from. I mean, you know, I love Robert
Pali's book in some of his work because I know
(10:02):
he's got a case in terms of, well, if somebody
does have an implant, he's got a certain set of
characteristics and ways that it should be extracted and then
monitor tagged and tracked after that point, chain of custody
of the whole thing, absolutely exactly. And that's that's exactly
what we do for stuff when we build it for
Department of Defense. You got a chain of custody.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Take a break right there. We'll come right back and
ask doctor Bettner what he thinks about what may really
be behind the UFO phenomenon. You're listening to Beyond Contact
on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
(10:49):
We are back on Beyond Contact. We're speaking with doctor Bettner.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Doctor.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
When you and Ben look at a case, you guys
take a serious deep dive in all of these all
sorts of data actually, from topography to geology to everything
in between. I feel like technology is really a double
edged sword here. On one hand, we have all this
data that we are now able to collect and have
access to, such as you presented at Contact. When you
(11:16):
researched that case with the girl who shot the video
through the plane window, which you pretty much concluded was
a balloon. You were able to access weather sites that
gave you the wind speed and wind direction. You were
able to access airline sites that gave you the flight
path and the flight direction. You looked at solar sites
that allowed you to calculate the time of day based
on the shadows from where the plane was and would
(11:38):
have been at that time. There's a lot of math here,
and we won't go down that hole, but on and
on it was fantastic. On the other hand, I have
just read how over twenty percent of all YouTube shorts
videos are now completely AI generated to farm clicks, which
is only going to get worse. So we have other
(11:58):
technologies from photoshop and editing software to create all this
misinformation outright hoaxes as well as intentional disinformation. All of
it muddies the waters. So how do you combat these issues?
And do you think they will make this type of
investigation all the more difficult?
Speaker 5 (12:16):
Well, that is a wonderful question. So if you go
look at a sue apps. A year and a half ago,
I gave a talk on exactly that problem, and I
showed how easy it is, and I pulled stuff off
the Internet right to hoax UFOs and people love doing it.
They get a kick out of it. For what ever,
are you know? I don't even know where to start
on that one. But the thing that you know, we're
(12:37):
trying to propose is you know what, I need a
chain of custody when it starts to come into what
your camera captures, right, And this goes back the entire
idea behind side it. It's coming off your camera, it's
in an encrypted network, you submit it, and it's being
submitted with metadata where was your phone pointed and all
that kind of great information that we need and we
(13:00):
need to trust and rely on. If I'm not having
to spend a good chunk of my time trying to
authenticate what I'm looking at that month of time I'm
spending analyzing your data versus trying to make you.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Let's jump to that part, which is the important part.
Speaker 5 (13:14):
Yes, you know, for example Logwood, ye case, I'm working
within the SU analyzing that data. So we got a
nice chain of custody on that. They've done a lot
of work, great upfront to show yeah, that did in
fact come off of border patrol and customs aircraft. And
so it's like that chain of custody aspect I don't
have to worry about. I can invent tools, I can
(13:35):
come up with new processes, I can throw new algorithms
at stuff, you know, to where you're actually utilizing my
best part of me in my background, in terms of
what I can bring to the table in analyzing these
kinds of cases.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Are there any specific historical cases that you believe deserve
renewed scientific investigation today? You know, the way you guys
broke down that case, the airline case, I'd love to
see that done with all of these ros well in others.
You know, I know, I realized this is a lot
of time and a lot of money, so and you
guys generously do this for free.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
So yeah, it's like coming out of our retirement funds.
I'll tell you.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Yeah, there you go. You know.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
The one that I keep going back to is that
Phoenix case. It's like, where's the radar data? Where's the
you know, I know the government has the radar data.
I know they've got it squirrelled away somewhere. Where is
all the videos? You know, people had to have taken videos,
they had to have taken it from different directions. You know,
there are cams out there that probably got squirrelled away,
(14:35):
you know, doorbell cameras and what have you. Right, come on,
I mean, we can go through and probably do a
better job on that. Whether anybody's done or not I
haven't paid attention, but that's one case that keeps coming
to mind.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Man, I think if that happened today twenty twenty six, Wow,
we would have a thousand different videos from every possible
angle and you could really pin down what happened.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
Right yep, very easily.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
And if this does have a non human component to it, Doc,
what do you think it's most likely? Do you think
it's like an interdimensional traveler, a time traveler, aliens from
another planet in our universe, or do you think it
could have something more to do with consciousness? Perhaps?
Speaker 5 (15:16):
You know, I will say that I'm going to start
with a consciousness one and work my way backwards. I
think there's a consciousness part of it. And I and
the only reason I say that is, you know, Barber's
work and his disclosure there with some of those individuals
that you know apparently can use there they're just mind
capabilities or mental powers, what have you? To try and
coax these things in, you know, those kinds of things.
(15:40):
It's like, gosh, I'd love to be able to go
out as an independent observer on that because I would
put up triangulation cameras really and then just you know,
try and see how quickly thinks something came in or
you know how far away it was. You can do
all that math. So there's that aspect of it, and
then you start going towards things that we really can't
explain yet, you know, like ghosts and what have you.
(16:01):
Some people will figure into your imagination. Will okay, you
can believe that, But I know I talked to a
lot of people said no, yeah, barely. I've seen stuff
pop off the wall and jump across the room. Well great,
that tells me we don't understand everything around us, right,
And just that kind of a thing. If you've got
to go, she got something that is able to basically
still be around. And I'm going to say, from a
(16:22):
physics standpoint, quantum entanglement is probably your best bet for
an explanation there. And if we can quantum entangle, you know,
maybe you can use quantum entanglement forget from one end
of the galaxy to the other end of the galaxy
and nothing flat. There are potentially loopholes that will allow it.
How Kubier's work drive and other things, and so you know,
I would say the vast majority of scientists don't question
whether or not there can be extra extraterrestrial life. I mean,
(16:45):
we can look out there and you know, as Carl
segouind say, billions and billions, right, billions and billions of
galaxies and in those billions of billions of galaxies, billions
and billions of stars. And so the math is with
us that fundamentally et is out there. Now, it's how
do we yes? That is the billion dollar question if.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
You will, you know, and even we have a lot
of people who claim to have interacted with them. So
there's that about what about Skywatcher? Have you heard about
these guys who claim to have the technology for that?
What do you think of it?
Speaker 5 (17:14):
Well, that's what I was trying to say. Jay Barber,
I think is trying to remember his name, Jacob. Yeah.
So you know, we actually met Jake at SCU this
last year. He was there. Interesting, I thought. I heard
that they're closed down though, that they accomplished their their
work and they're now doing other stuff.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (17:32):
I don't have all the takes in it, but that's
why I said I would love to be an independent
observer on that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Could this even be potentially something that we don't even
have the word for yet to describe properly. I think
you sum that are best. The answer to this whole
thing is what you said. It just shows you. All
of these things show.
Speaker 6 (17:49):
You there's more to this world than we understand. Yet
we don't know everything. We are ants. We are ants
and in a grand universe, and fundamentally our knowledge is
very very limited.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Still more people than others. But we won't go down
that road right now, Doc, let's keep this civil. What
do you think about experience? What do you think that
the experiencers get right, that perhaps skeptics overlook.
Speaker 5 (18:14):
The personal experience right? You know, it's like the entire
reason I even am interested is because of you know,
my story with my grandfather and my mom. So it's
like they tell it it's like they were there. They
can they can recan it like they were there. I
rode with Officer Kleine from the library there, the Mark
Twain Library, over to the site where he believed he was.
You know, he got to remember it was like two
(18:35):
years ago, and he's like, why are they here? I says,
we don't know. I mean fundamentally, when I say we
we collect the weed that you're talking to me now
in terms of if we've got crash retrieval programs and
got an area fifty one location where they got all
these things and they're communicating with them on a daily basis,
maybe they know what's going on, but the grander disclosure
(18:56):
aspect in terms of the general public does not.
Speaker 4 (18:59):
Yeah, absolutely, we need to take another break there. Doc.
When we come back, we're going to ask you about
your thoughts on people who claim to have been experiencers
and if you think the government has actually recovered craft.
You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We're back on Beyond Contact.
(19:37):
We're speaking with doctor Doug Bettner. Doc, what do you
think of some of these witnesses, Like you mentioned Officer
Klein from the Connecticut case that you looked at, some
of these people seem to be very credible and make
a very compelling case that what they're seeing is at
the very least something extraordinary.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
Well, I'll tell you a officer how he saw something.
I mean, it shocked him to the core. And if
I see something off in the distance, that's not going
to shock to the core. If I've got something like
forty feet away, like he's saying, and like I told
I world with a guy and he's just like, what
the hell is going on?
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Right?
Speaker 5 (20:10):
And you know my family experience, and you know, I
tried to talk to some of these people. But what
I try to do is I, you know, I've tried
to come at it from again an open mind. Tell
me what you saw, you know, And I'm trying to
pull that emotion out of them when they're explaining it
to me, because it's that emotion that I'm if I
can feel it, I know they felt it, and I
(20:32):
know they they believe that they saw what they saw.
And for us in Ben's team in particular, that's a
key aspect. I mean, we try to protect those people,
and we talk to people and we don't disclose everybody's
name unless they literally allow us to. And so there's
there's an entire psychology, right. You need to trust me
(20:55):
as a scientist that I am going to try and
help you understand what you witnessed.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
And I do like when these people come forward and
they're like and it backs up the video, They're like,
look it was me, I saw it. Here's the video
that I took, you know, the girl on the plane.
She's like, yep, this is me. I filmed this. I
love that. I think that just adds another piece of credibility.
And I love what it's a multiple witness case. Then
then then it's even more so.
Speaker 5 (21:19):
Right, Yeah, and we had a second witness on that aircraft,
that's right, who wanted to remain nameless, and so she
is remaining nameless. But we had a second witness that
was further up in the aircraft and saw something bloom. Yeah,
and then as you went over your head there, as
a matter of fact, it looks just like it. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Well that's what about these people who've made claims of
having a direct alien encounter. I've talked to several of
these and it's very compelling. They certainly believe it.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
What do you think, Wow, you know some of those people,
I would really love it if you could start somehow
documenting it, right, get a camera out there, get you know,
figure out some way. Maybe you have a camera at
a distance, or a couple of cameras at a distance,
or go to bed with a fit bit on.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
They say that this has happened and they've been turned off.
He has an iPhone he took it to Apple and
they said, oh, it's not working because it showed that
you were two thousand feet above your house the GPS.
How about that. That's some interesting data for you exactly.
Speaker 5 (22:26):
That's the kind of physical data we'd like to get,
but you know, we'd like to get it in such
a way that there's corroborating evidence. Right, So there's that
evidence aspect of it. Oh boy, the GPS stuff going
on at Skinwalker Ranch. But don't you get me started there.
You know, just the different aspects of the multiple witnesses
and you know, and multiple data points, you know, two cameras,
(22:50):
three cameras. The more we can get the corroborates data
in one one case is gold. It is literally gold.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
What do you think about the idea that the government
has already recovered non human physical craft and they've been
backward engineering it for years. Do you think there's possibly
any truth?
Speaker 5 (23:08):
I would say there, I would say, it's not it's zero.
Oh really, I would not put it at a harp
sent but it's not zero. I would say, I'm going
to say it's everything I've talked to and and you know,
you know, I came from Aerospace Corporation also did Eric Davis? Right?
You talk to Eric Davis and oh boy, you know,
if anybody convinces you in terms of his stream of consciousness,
(23:31):
and he tells it like he was there, right, he's
not making it up. He says, this is what happened. Right,
Oh my gosh. If you don't come away believe in
it after that, there's no hope.
Speaker 4 (23:42):
I actually going to tell you. Okay, So if you
think it's possible, why are they keeping it so clandestine?
Speaker 5 (23:48):
Very simple national security? The atomic bomb? Okay, what happened
immediately after them bomb went off? Okay? The flap that
you know my grandfather was in was nineteen forty seven, July.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Fourth, right around Roswell by the way.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
Does that sound familiar?
Speaker 4 (24:03):
Oh yeah?
Speaker 5 (24:04):
And then you know, three years later my mom saw something.
And so you know, that was before we literally had
the technologies that could do these kinds of things that
you could mistake. You know, two things in the sky
that goes zip. That kind of stuff just did not
exist at that point, does it now?
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (24:22):
And that makes our job much harder from analytical standpoint.
But I would say if if I was back then
and we had just dropped the bomb and I knew
Russia was trying to develop the bomb. Oh heck, yeah,
I would have. I would have put a classification on
it just like that. Why because we are in an
arms race and that's that's all there is to it.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
People. It makes complete sense to me. I I honestly
believe that, and I think that there's probably a good
reason for it. And you know, also maybe it's something
that they really shouldn't let everybody know because they might
not want to hear it. There's always that possibility.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
There there is that it is.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Yeah, what about the idea of disclosure? You know, what
do you think it would or should look like if
it does happen?
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Wow, that you know, we could have three or four
podcasts just discussing that time.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Yes, we set aside seven hours for you today, Doc.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
So personally, you know, I have an opinion, and I'm
gonna say it is my opinion. I would come out,
you know, this is what it is. Do enough, you know,
so that people can say, yabe early, Yeah, it's true.
You got to do something to help with the religions
and stuff. I Mean, my frustration is I just I
(25:37):
got a sneaking suspicion of the religion is going to
try to capitalize on it, and so that that is
one of my fears. But in particular with you know,
the government and stuff. You know, they already got a
lock on it, assuming that it does exist, it's just
a matter of what's the right way to do it,
to say, minimize strife, you know, allow people to understand, well,
(25:58):
it was cassed by boy. Reason again, national security would
be the reason. If there's technologies allow you to do
stuff that these things can reportedly do. Oh yeah, you're
gonna classify it if you can get it until you
know how to utilize it.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
They see a world of problems. There's gonna be one
million questions if they so much just say that that's real.
You know, you made My grandfather ruined his life and
you know he couldn't talk about this, and you can
imagine the problems this would do. What do you think
would be the worst repercussion from a formal disclosure disclosure?
Speaker 5 (26:30):
Again, my fear is the attempt at the religious trying
to you know, cornershre you know, you know again the
brainwashing parts you know, allow me to be independent, allow
me to think like I want to thank you, don't
you think.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
This could have something to do with you know, free
energy and the global reliance on oil and these kind
of things that I'm not.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
So convinced on that I need, you know, power and
control is my opinion.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
Sure, I understand. Is it possible that there are multiple
different things happening, there's non human intelligences or different Sephard phenomenon.
I don't know why. That's not very possible because there's
a lot of things we don't know, and one hundred
years ago there was a ton of things we don't
know that we know now. And take for granted you
can only imagine a thousand years from now, they're going
to look back and how do they not understand these
(27:14):
simple Oh?
Speaker 5 (27:15):
I mean yeah, I mean you think you look back
at Copernicus right, or you know, pick your favorites just
in the past. You know, you start thinking about how
they got to where they did and what you know.
It's you know, I think it was Newton that said,
you know, I stand on the shoulders of giants. There
was enough around him so we could make additional deductions.
The same thing with us. I mean, we got to
(27:36):
stand on the shoulders of giants. The technologies that are
coming out now, or gosh, I wish twenty years ago
we would have the phones we do now, My Samsung
Ultra twenty five. I mean, gosh, I can do fantastic
stuff with it. It's basically a walking, talking sensor, all
these different modes in it, right, and then now the
ability to network those things. I mean, you know, that's
(27:57):
what all ciders all about is let's take advantage of that.
Let's let you know, put the power into people's hands
to put it out there and then be able to
analyze your work and have other people analyze it. But
I know it came from a trusted source.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Right, yep. I always think about these things. There's so
many examples throughout history where because it's a new idea,
everybody of course is resistant to it because it's not
what they know. Imagine when they first came up with
microscopic organisms. Oh, by the way, your body's covered with
them and you have billions of them inside you, people
are like, you're a crazy person. That's not true. And
(28:31):
now a five year old knows that. Why couldn't that
just be there's another vibrational world that we didn't know
about that exists or whatever. And now everybody knows about it,
you know.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
Yeah again, you know it's like when you say that
I just could I always keep my mind goes back
to Jay Stratton's story about it Skinwalker Ranch, where they
saw that that dark being he couldn't go beyond a
certain place on the ranch and they just they couldn't,
they couldn't physically pass that. That tells me that maybe
this stuff is all interconnected some way, somehow. Again, I'll
(29:02):
go back to the physics I know, and quantum entanglement
is one aspect multidimensional theories of the universe. I mean,
there's things like that that say, yeah, maybe they're.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
True, certainly possible. When we come back, we're going to
ask the doctor about his thoughts on the research that
SCU does, and also ask him about some of the
anomalous video that he himself has caught on video at
his place near Skinwalker Ranch. You're listening to Beyond Contact
on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
(29:49):
We are back on Beyond Contact speaking with doctor Doug Bettner. Doctor,
you are also on the board of SCU, which is
an organization that I very much support in f I
hope to have them at contact again this year. What
are your impressions of the work that's being done there.
Do you feel that it meets the scientific standards that
it needs to when we're investigating a case like this.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
You know, great question. As a board member, I do
not speak for the board. Okay, I can be empowered
to speak for the board, but I am not empowered
to speak for the board. I can speak for myself.
I would say. The consensus that came back is, Hey,
we're still trying to get all of our investigational stuff
put together. We're trying to pull the team together to
do that. We're constantly being asked to review different approaches
(30:34):
and documentation in terms of how we as an organization
will investigate these cases. Code to conduct, I mean code
to conduct is very important for us. We just got
through going through and it takes a while. That's why
I said, you know, it's glacial sciences. So is pulling
together the right approaches, the thoughtful approaches, or when you
send a team out, how do they conduct themselves, how
(30:55):
do they gather evidence, how do they interview witnesses, et cetera,
et cetera. Right now, Fortunately we got some really great
you know, former law enforcement officers that are supporting us
with this, and so we're utilizing some of those techniques,
trying to pull the best of the best, right And
it is a really good board and I'm very very
(31:16):
tickled Pink to have been selected to get on it.
So we're trying to do the right thing.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
Okay, And if you feel like that is quality scientific
work that they're doing, couldn't we take some of the
reports that SCU comes with and give it to more
scientists to take a look at and evaluate for themselves.
Speaker 5 (31:34):
Well, and that's part of the science. That's what science
is all about.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
Right.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
It's published. Okay, it's like I'm going to go to
the augwadeport. They published what they had, They published any
information they had, and then the analytical textiques they used,
you know, in years have passed. You know, we're now
twelve years past that report coming out, actually going on thirteen.
Now we're taking another look at it. And you know, rightfully,
so we've got a few cases out there where people said,
well this is that or the other thing, and so
(31:58):
we're taking another look at the data, right, and we
are bringing additional techniques that we have now that they
did not have. Then we're always getting new board members
and we just got contacted by a guy from cal Tech,
which is you know, can't wait to definely get him
on the on the team. And so we've got you know,
all these great i'd say, people that are just donating
(32:18):
their time, they're donating their experience, radar, you know, optical techniques.
You know, we're trying to bring the full bearer. But
you know, unfortunately, you know, you get what you pay for,
and right now we we work on people donating money.
So you know, put a pitch out there for money.
If you really want the good science, you got to
you got to put the bucks.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
In absolutely, and they're they're doing great stuff. Now what
about the thing that you yourself. You have a place
that's right near the famous Skinwalker ranch. And I understand
you've caught a few anomalies on video.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
I've got, well, I should technically say two one I
look at closely. The other other one I didn't just
because I didn't have the time. But all I'm gonna
do is call it a light anomally Okay. I literally
I showed it to Jay Stratton and Jay Stratton goes,
I think you caught a word. I said, Jay, I'm
not ready to go there yet. I said, I can.
(33:10):
I can tell you what I can do with the
video that I've got. Unfortunately, it's one of these game cameras,
and you don't have a lot of capability of the
game camera, especially when it's JPEG compressed video or images
both right, And it just happened to be a checking image.
So these cameras will check in twice a day, well
I should say once a day and once a night.
(33:31):
Telvar's apart, just as a kind of I'm alive type thing,
and then if there's any movement they will capture things.
So in a check in video, I had something I
would say, a small little light very bright where there
should not have been a light. And the analysis I
did is I have obviously a day image, right, so
(33:51):
I can see exactly where it is, and then I
have a night image from the night before. And so
what I can do is I can do subtraction, and
I can say I can show you right where it is.
On top of that, I can show you effects around
it that did not show up the night before. And
so at that time my neighbors they had a gate
that kind of swung out between my place and their place,
(34:12):
and it was kind of swung out into my property,
and you can see reflection off of that gate. In addition,
there's a I'm going to call it a pile of
garbage that was behind the light source, and you can
see reflection off that pile of garbage in the back.
So I know it's somewhere in that gap right right.
(34:34):
But you look at the daytime video and there is
nothing there.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (34:40):
And I've got lots and lots of cases where I've
got cars going up and down the road all the time.
People were like, could it be a reflection? I got
reflection off of what There's nothing there, And so that's
why I call it a light anomaly. Am I going
to call it in a word? No? Because I got
one image and it just had it would be an
extreme lucky shot if I did. Now I will say
that I have another one. I was about a year
(35:03):
later where it was along that same line of site,
just a little further out, kind of over the road,
but I couldn't really tell it was over the road
or on the on the other side of the road
from my property. So I didn't spend a lot of
time looking at that one. But I will tell you
that whereas one time I was out there with my
wife because we just go out there and it's almost
like camping trip for us. On top of that, we
took a horse trail and converted it into something we
(35:25):
could sleep in. I to make it cost effective. But
the thing we did is I was I was sick
that night and my wife was out walking the dogs
and she said she saw something off in our neighbor's
field behind us, which is literally between between us and Skinwalker.
And she said she saw something that was kind of
(35:46):
down in the in the grass, and she said, I
was going to call you, but I knew you didn't
feel good, and so I don't know what it was.
But she said it was very light bright, and when
she saw the image, she goes, it looked like that.
Oh wow, So she saw something out there.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
So it sits in the gray basket for now right.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
It's in the I can't explain it.
Speaker 4 (36:08):
So I understand you've been looking at that fascinating case
that we talked about earlier from Officer twying client. Excuse
me calling Connecticut. It's been two years now that you've
been looking at that. Have you guys got any closer
to an explanation of what could be happening.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
I would say we're still on the We're still investigating.
I've actually created a proposal to go out there, and
the first part of it is what I call let's
get rid of all the potential prosaics, right, and so
we've got a proposal for putting some location cameras around
with twenty four to seven video. We actually have a
(36:43):
camera out there now, but we need better sensors to
where literally we can do frame by frame differency. A
lot of these cameras don't do that, or it's going
to be some kind of an IR triggered motion type thing,
and so we literally have to build our own equipment.
We've been working with some individuals only their name off
of it, but that are trying to develop that. SCU
has actually got a project right now to also develop
(37:05):
that kind of technology to where what we can do
is put it in multiple locations and get triangulation. Right
with the triangulation, we'll be able to say how far
away it is. If we got very good timestamps, we
can correlate that with air traffic. We want to incorporate
other modalities, And when I use the word modality, that
means for example, radar radio, other kinds of radio other
(37:28):
than just radar aspects, for example infrasound. There's a whole
suite of different things we can do. And fundamentally, right now,
it's prove it isn't prosaic. I e move that way
down in the list of potential and then we can
then go, okay, what is it?
Speaker 4 (37:44):
Right right? I always feel like eliminate those things first,
then we'll jump to this one.
Speaker 5 (37:50):
That's unfortunately the name of the game.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
So all you scientists are always calling for more data.
Tell us about this cider dot io that you've come
up with that, how does that work? And how can
that get us closer to the answer?
Speaker 5 (38:04):
Well, the entire goal there. And so me and another
guy are working on some stuff and unfortunately this isn't
our day jobs. It was our day jobs, we'd already
have it out right, we're working on updates for it
right now. It is literally an MVP. It just kind
of goes you, shows you how what your interaction would be,
and show you stuff that you could do with it.
What we want to do is we actually want to
(38:26):
connect that to a back end database, and in that
back end database automate a lot of the analysis that
I personally do, right, but allow you to do it.
And so you basically have the access to you know,
people like me, other experts, smeeze and the optical analysis.
And the thing is if we can get multiple phones
people's phones with you know, triangulated locations. Unfortunately, what really
(38:50):
to get it properly funded is we got to ask
you for money for something, right, and so possibly the
back end database aspect and being able to to go
in and do the analysis yourself or interface with other
individuals as a community would be the part that we'd
you know, try and get money for because we've got
(39:11):
to fund the next technology. You got to fund the
advancements and the algorithms and things of that nature. So
that's that's currently what's kind of going on behind the scenes.
Nothing is imminent. But once we get past that, once
you start having a revenue stream, that's when the vcs
are interested. Right, you got to show that you can
make one. Until that point, they don't want to talk
to us.
Speaker 4 (39:30):
Thanks doctor, really appreciate it, really fascinating stuff. Appreciate you
taking the time you can.
Speaker 7 (39:34):
Find doctor Bittner at g I T h u B
dot com backslash d R do O U g B,
or you can check out his UFO reporting site at
sitter dot io. You guys can find me on Twitter
and Instagram at c I T D Underscore Captain Ron.
Stay connected by checking out contact inthedesert dot com.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
Stay open minded and rational as we explore the unknown
right here on the iHeartRadio and the Coast to Coast
a paranormal podcast.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
to iHeartRadio dot com
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