March 20, 2026 • 43 mins
Captain Ron welcomes back Paul Hynek to discuss his father’s legacy and the UFO phenomenon.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM
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and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with
Captain Rong.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
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(00:41):
your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week are Beyond Contact.
We'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we talked with the top experts.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Welcome to Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Ron, and today we're
going to be speaking with our old friend Paul Heineck.
Paul is a warden MBA and a professor of Finance
and Cryptocurrency at Pepperdine University. Paul has a wide variety
of diverse knowledge in areas from UFOs, to artificial intelligence,
and even DMT realms. He has been a staple at
Contact in the Desert. Today, I thought we'd talk about UFOs, aliens,
(01:35):
DMT AI, and of course his legendary father, doctor j.
Allen Heineck. I have interviewed mister Paul Heineck before, but
that was mostly about your fly fishing and your years
as a shepherd, which, although you find fascinating, I think
would be boring for the audience sold and.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
The forty five people who bought the book about it
podcast too.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
That's right, you know. Interestingly enough, Paul, we very recently
on Beyond Contact. We had Don Schmidt, who worked at
your father's Center for UFO Studies for many, many years,
and Mark Rodiger, who started months after the foundation the
center started and he's been there since nineteen seventy three,
(02:14):
and they both discussed with me how unique your father
was and how he kept to this genuine scientific approach
to things. He never really pinned down what the UFO
phenomenon was, but he did find the witnesses and the
data behind some of these cases very compelling. He also
felt that it didn't necessarily point to a prosaic explanation
(02:35):
was that what you found as well with your father.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
My father was an astrophysicist, so he was brought up
in a very different world of nuts and bolts astrophysics.
For someone like that, the idea that a biological being
is getting in a spaceship at Point A, enduring the
rigors of intertellar space travel and coming all the way
here just to scare farmer Brown in the middle of
(02:58):
the night doesn't really job. So he liked the term metaterrestrial,
which is a little bit more inclusive that something beyond
our current knowledge base. Something is here because the weight
of the evidence and air force pilots and corroboration by radar,
et cetera showed that there's enough evidence to suggest something's happening.
What it is, you start getting on much more slippery ground.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
What is your dad like in real life? Like, did
he have a scientific approach? Would he be like, Okay, tonight,
we're going to have mashed potatoes. Turn the temperature to
two hundred and twelve, which is the boiling point of water.
Was he like scientific like that, or was he like, hey,
let's get the ball, let's go outside and play ball.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
Well, first, my dad never had any advice for anybody
cooking anything, because the only two things he cooked in
his life were popcorn and hot dogs over at campfire. Okay,
so no, you know, in movies we see scientists are
often sort of like Doctor spockified there exactly, that's my question,
not logical, and that's one of the things I had
to tone back in the TV show Project blue Book.
My father wouldn't traffic with the word logic very much.
(03:59):
He was a physicist, a logician, but he was a
very fun warm guy with an over fondness for puns,
and so my mom had to institute a rule. Three
puns at the dinner table and you're gone. So my
father dug down at the bottom of pun Mountain and
came back with the Joseph Campbell humor elixir for the village.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
That's so funny. So that's what I wanted to hear.
Good to hear that he was set that at the
door almost if you will, he didn't leave the astrophysicist
jacket in around the house. You and your siblings grew
up in this unique household where your dad, you know,
was this well known astrophysicist. Even before Project Blue Book,
you had these dignitaries come around your house and you
guys would talk about UFOs when you were young. Did
(04:43):
you realize how unique it was to talk about UFOs
at the dinner table or did you assume the kids
down the street are doing the same thing with their family,
especially back then.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
You didn't when you were a kid.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
I did not, Huh.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
However, you're brought up, feels normal to you, good or bad,
and it's really in hindsight that you realize a little
bit different. And yeah, so now we understand that our
household was a little bit different, both because of my
father and his side hustle of UFOs being an astronomer.
Really that's how we thought him as an astronomer. My
mom was a very interesting person in her own right.
(05:16):
And then of course my brother Joel was an initial
suspect on the shortlist for being the unibomber. So there's
a lot of stuff going on in the house.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
You know, I know you're going to be doing this
big Heineck reunion with your four siblings and doctor Jacques
Vala at Contact in the Desert, which will be fantastic
this year. You know, they collaborated going back to I
believe nineteen sixty three, and Valley's famous quote is, if
UFOs turn out to be just nuts and bolts extraterrestrial visitors,
(05:45):
I'll be very disappointed. Did doctor Heineck echo that? And
I know he just looked at the data, but you
think he was more open to it originating from something
nuts and bolts like aliens.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Yeah, And to get back to your point about my
dad being a scientist, he was. He became a scientist
because he had tuberculosis when he was seven years old
and somebody gave him a book about astronomy and he
was hooked. He just wanted to go out to like
the fringes of the known universe and take a flashlight
and just push things a little bit further. But he
also had Rosicrucian leanings. He had a spiritual side to him.
(06:19):
So it wasn't only a Newtonian universe unwinding. There were
mysteries to solve, and for him, UFOs represented a great mystery.
And for both him and Jacques, after looking at hundreds
and hundreds of cases, you kind of get past the
point of oh, the craft and its mechanics and its propulsion,
and you start to think more about well, who was
(06:40):
in the craft and why? And are they biological? Are
they synthetic? Are they artificial? Are they instantiating temporarily? Why
are they here? Are they part of us? All these
sort of meaty questions. That's where they really landed.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Also, you know, you just brought up spirituality. People often
think of science and spiritual ruality in direct opposition, but
here you go. Your father did have a spirituality to him.
Speaker 5 (07:04):
You know, I think Risvurk had a really good presentation
in my class the other day at Pepperdine, and a
very inclusive presentation to show that his sort of expansive
view of what a simulated universe is does not shove
traditions of faith to the side, but kind of point
in the same direction in some ways. You know, we
were brought up in a non religious household, but very open.
(07:29):
I'd call mom and say, oh I learned about this.
My mom and dad would say, that's great, let's talk
about a little bit more. So they were open to
us have any kinds of beliefs, and I don't think
any of us subscribe to a universe where there is
no room for some kind.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Of divine Interesting you know, you mentioned that your father
was interested into the idea of metaterrestrial I believe Jacques
Valet also along with him, thought that the mediterrestrial hypothesis
was possible, which is of course that it's beyond human
but not necessarily off world. So let me ask you,
what does Paul you think about that possibility.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Yeah, you know, especially in Hollywood, they knee jerk to
the extraterrestrial theory. Again, I'll go back and say, for me,
the two hardest questions that the extra truster theory has
to answer are how do they find us? Yes, we've
been beaming episodes of I Love Lucy out into the
ether low these many decades, but we are like a
speck of dust in Kansas and is not insignificant just
(08:27):
to find us. And then if they do come here
from so far away, why if they can come here
from so far away, there's nothing we have that they need,
not gold, not water. I don't know if they really
need our cherished human concept of love and non Borgian individuality.
So those two questions are really hard for me to
(08:49):
jibe with the extra trust or hypothesis. I lean more
towards what my dad and Jacques had a very open
mind towards which is the interdimensional theory, because if and
maybe it's all of the above. If metaterrestrials are coming
from and again, now that very vocabulary starts to get
a little bit tortured. Right, If they are from another dimension,
(09:10):
maybe they're right adjacent to us, which could explain how
they would know about us. And maybe in some way
they're related to us, like a different timeline or different multiverse.
So for me, interdimensional really starts to tackle the two
most vexing questions.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Perhaps they're coming here for our souls, but we'll cover
that in a later segment. Today you get dark already
in the first hour. That's why it's coming up later.
But that is in the folklore as we know. Were
there any specific cases that you remember that your father
that really impacted him, maybe emotionally or intellectually, like in
a profound way, that kept him up at night.
Speaker 5 (09:45):
Well, astronomers are often up at night. Okay, well that's
not hard. And they also learn how to sleep anywhere anytime.
So my father would sometimes just lay down on the
floor at a party and sleep.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Is that where you get it from?
Speaker 5 (09:59):
Yeah, yes, One case that I really like is the
father Gill case from nineteen sixty one in Papua New Guinea.
One evening, I think about time for vespers, which are
evening prayers. He hears a commotion outside. He goes outside
and he sees a craft, and right away he starts
doing trigonometric calculations as to how far the object is
and how large it is, you know, very calm in
(10:20):
the moment. There are about five hundred witnesses. They see
this craft, and there are sightings over a few days,
and they see sort of a hatch or door open,
and they see these entities and Father Gil waves and
they wave back, and then Father Gill goes inside and
people criticize, how could you go inside, Well, that's time
for vespers. He took us oath to do the evening prayers.
(10:42):
So Father Gil came over to our house for dinner
some years after that, and he'd talk to Father Gil
over the years, and you could see he would respectfully
ask questions from slightly different angles to see if the
consistency was there or if he was embellishing over the years,
and he didn't launch into this right when he sat
down at the dinner table. It was more of if
you've fairly well known for having seen a UFO and
(11:04):
you're at the Heineck house and you're eating our food,
you're going to have to chat about it.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
And he was a priest, so that gives you some
more credibility. Actually a lot of people would argue, right.
Speaker 5 (11:12):
Yeah, and he just matter of fact, they told the
story and I could tell from my father how he
stroked his beard, that it was consistent, and a man
who was what my father would call a highly credible witness.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
How incredible. When we come back, we're going to ask
Paul about his research and experiences with DMT realms. You're
listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to
Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on Beyond
(11:51):
Contact and we're speaking with Paul Heineck. Paul, I want
to ask you about the potential relationship between DMT and
the alien phenomenon. I'd like to preface it by saying
that you know, DMT is a very unique thing where
people who have had the experience claim that it feels
more real than reality, which is reminiscent to me. How
(12:12):
some people who have a near death experience will also
report and there are also accounts from near death experiences
where people say that the beings that they see will
talk and act as if the human experience is this
cute little thing, but our real, true higher self, the
real reality, if you will, is still out there in
the ether, as if our soul was backstage and part
(12:34):
of us is merely living out the human experience on stage,
only to return backstage one day. What are your thoughts
on these descriptions. Well, that was very, very poetic. These
are only my thoughts.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
I've seen research recently that psychedelics, including DMT, may function
to reduce our brain's reality reduction filters. And Donald Hoffman
is very eloquent in this regard, talking about how we
see an interface and that our brain has purposefully narrowed
the aperture of what we perceive. You know, we only
(13:06):
see a very small part of the electromagnetic spectrum, and
from an evolutionary fitness point of view, we see and
hear and smell what we need, like is there a
tiger coming in the woods, and our brain purposely discards
the rest because it's not helpful to us from an
evolutionary adaptation point of view. So what research is showing
is that psychedelics increase the number of neuronal connections dramatically
(13:28):
and may reduce that filter that we have, which could
account for why people have this feeling of hyper reality
when they do some of these substances.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Terrence McKenna first gave Rick Strassman DMT, and Rick Strassman
said a portal opened. Terrence McKenna himself said that DMT
is not a drug but a doorway. Now, I believe
I've heard you and some other people call it a
technology or even a plant technology.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
How So, Andrew Gallimore has really good phrasing about this,
that it is like a plant technology or a communications conduit.
So one of the sensations that I and a lot
of other people have is that, unlike some other substances
that I may or may not have done in my
long hair youth, that there's this permanence of state with DMT.
It's always there, and if I do a little puff
(14:14):
or I do a monster dose, you're experiencing that same
realm that's always there, whereas other experiences that have were
much different and sort of stochastic and independent. But this
permanence of state, combined with a feeling of hyperreality, just
makes a lot of people think that that's real, but
not in any way to devalue our existence here, but
(14:35):
just a very real sort of David Bowman implicate universe
that's there all the time, and that sometimes we have
the privilege to glimse.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
A tap into. Yeah, you know, I love your origin
story on DMT. You were out to lunch with somebody
and they referred to a book called the Alien Information Theory,
and then at that very same lunch you saw another
guy who brought up DMT to you, which is the
second time in your life that you had just heard
it from two hours earlier, and that synchronicity alone is
(15:04):
incredible to me. Did it hit you at that time,
like how profound that was?
Speaker 5 (15:08):
Yeah? I'd never heard of DMT before. And my friend,
who knew about my dad's work with UFOs, asked me
where UFOs came from. I said, well, you know, maybe
inter dimensional who knows? He said you should read Alien
Information Theory and I said, well, sexiest book title ever.
What's it about DMT? I'd never heard of it, he
tells me. And I said, well, what's that got to
do with other dimensions? He said, listen, genius is talking
about how the DMT realm might be the other universe
(15:31):
or the other dimension that your dad thinks UFOs may
come from. Okay, and then yeah, I met another guy
the same day who is saying what he does, I
do breath work and I facilitate DMT sashions. I said,
holy shit, I just got double tapped by DMT in
the same day. A lot of people report with psychedelics
and DMT in particular, that it will give you very
instructions like I'm ready for you now, or you're here
for the hot bay tonight, or other things. I don't
(15:53):
endorse anybody rushing out headlong and trying any of these
powerful substances. You really need to be ready. But DMT
by and large is something that if somebody is ready
for it, can have a very positive experience.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
Can we test this in a lab somehow to determine
if it is just affecting our brains to hallucinate some
sort of these thoughts despite feeling so real, or conversely,
do you think in a lab would be able to
prove that perhaps it somehow does give us access to
either a higher consciousness, another consciousness, or even another dimension.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
Well back to Lord High Gallimore. Now he and Rick
Strassman conceived the idea of DMTX, which is extended state
DMT sessions of ours with an intervenous solution. And by
doing that and sort of calibrating the dose, you're able
to have real time communications with the world, a better
long or more high quality field real time field report.
(16:47):
So it opens the doors for some kind of proof protocols.
And I will be doing my first extended state DMPT
session in April.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Are they looking at this? Is that one of the
things they're trying to study to find out what is happening?
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Do?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
They seem both pretty open mind to it, like they
don't have a different advantage.
Speaker 5 (17:01):
And you know, as you know, I'm interested in proof
protocols to help experiencers of any kind of sort. DMT ghosts,
aliens demonstrate the objective reality of the encounters if they
so choose. I can't summon CE fives and orbs, I
just don't know how to do it. But I can
take a puff of a certain molecule and feel like
I'm having as real an experience with alien intelligence. To me,
(17:24):
the convenience of being able to do that anytime, cloudy
or not is really interesting. And the ability to extend
that really opens the door to a lot of possibilities
of proof protocols.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Have you ever seen the work of people like Joshua
Cutchen who have compared old tales of fairies from folklore
a thousand years ago, or stories of angels to things
like abduction experiences or near death experiences, perhaps even a
DMT trip, which actually seems to have many overlaps with
a UFO experience.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
I think Jacques Vallet is really great in this area
of talking about how throughout the years people report things
that sort of comport to the culture and social and
technological norms of the time. You know, we had the
sort of the steampunk airships of the eighteen nineties. There
are a lot of things like burning bushes and things
like that that seem to sort of jibe with psychedelic experiences.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Do you think it's just we're seeing it through our
own lens like everyone else. Two people see the same thing,
but they have a different interpretation of what they saw.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Yeah, And one of the things that Jaqua talks about
are very interesting cases where two people are looking up
and they see very different things. You know, I'm not
alone in thinking that perhaps a lot of these phenomena
have a common substrate. They may appear to us differently
because of our norms and our biases, or they may
just instantiate different ways to make them more perceptible to us.
You know, there's that old tale about how Native Americans
(18:51):
in South America couldn't really see conquistador ships offshore. I
think as bullshit. I think they saw them.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
They didn't know what they were.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
Yeah, I didn't know what they were. We all have
cultural biases, and we all filter. Again, going back to
Donald Hofman, things dramatically, and one of the things my
father would say is, if you have like three people
who see a car crash, you're going to get four
different stories of what happened.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
You know, some people report when on DMT that they
have experiences with entities, or as McKenna call them, machine elves.
Do you think that these could be what people call aliens? Sure?
Speaker 5 (19:25):
The first time I did DMP, I asked, I didn't
feel that I was perceiving incarnated entities, but I felt
the source universe, and I felt I'm on the other
side of the universe, watching the very fabric of the
universe being created. Remember, thinking there's no more important work
than this. And I said, are you what we perceived
to be aliens a DMT, which was my research interest,
(19:47):
And they said, we can't explain in a way that
you would understand. And it didn't seem to be deflection.
They don't need to deflect. It's not no, it's not no.
And so I was hooked right away, and then I
had a loving healing experience later that night. I've seen
this sort of duality of exploration and inner healing and work.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Based on first person alien accounts. You thought perhaps aliens
could be millions of years ahead of us, but that
the DMT intelligences feel as though they could be billions
of years ahead of us, in other words, on orders
of magnitude, bigger, more intense.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
How so, yeah, it seems relatively unlikely to me that
if there are extraterrestrial aliens coming here, that they're fifty
or one hundred years past us. They could well be
millions or billions of years more advanced than us. If
they are millions of years more advanced than us, I
believe they are post biological, which I think is our
future as well, good or bad. They may instant shape,
(20:49):
they may have synthetic gray bots that they send here
on patrol, or they may jump into these things or
just create these things. And for me, if there are
entities and DMT and they're not just figments of the
imagination while under the influence of a powerful psychedelic drug,
they seem to be so far more advanced.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
If consciousness is primary, or at least not fully reducible
to just brain chemistry, does that open the door for
non human intelligences interacting with us through an altered state
of consciousness.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
Oh, what a lovely question. Absolutely. I sort of waffle
between panpsychism and analytic idealism. I do feel that consciousness
is fundamental and primary. There's not a table here. There
is a field of electrons pushing against the field of
electrons in my hand. So it's all information. And so
if there are other civilizations, and I think we all
(21:46):
think there are lots of other civilizations out there, and
there are millions, if not billions of years more advanced
than us, could they tap into that ultimate intranet of
the universe.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
When we come back, we're going to ask Paul about
his extensive work with artificial intelligence and how it ties
into the UFO and alien worlds. You're listening to Beyond
Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal
podcast network. We are back on Beyond Contact and we're
(22:28):
speaking with Paul Heinek. Not only are you a well
versed shepherd, as we covered earlier, but you're also quite
versed in artificial intelligence. What are your thoughts on the
idea of artificial intelligence actually being sentient?
Speaker 5 (22:42):
If consciousness and information is primary, that means there are
what I call patterns. You can call God source whatever
you like, but there are patterns that pre exist life.
And that means there's some kind of consciousness that pre
exists organic life. And I suspect and we're starting to
see interesting hints at this now that there is a
pattern that pre exists. Let's call it silicon consciousness. Artificial
(23:06):
intelligence is an unfortunate term, right, it doesn't really capture
what it is, but silicon intelligence to me, is a
little bit more con digital, less baggage. But I think
that life may well exist and consciousness may well exist
on silicon And what we're seeing now is a very narrow,
sort of tip of the iceberg of what was already
(23:27):
out there and is now being instantiated in silicon.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
You know, I always felt that if another civilization was
exploring the universe, they would of course send AI instead
of a biologic. Another civilization would most likely also use
a language that's far different from ours, and we would
therefore need AI to try to communicate with them, not
discounting people who have had experiences and they say they're
telepathically communicated and they understand immediately. But still, if we
(23:53):
got an official contact, it seems very likely that it
would be some form of our AI interacting with their
A first. Do you think that's possible?
Speaker 5 (24:01):
Yeah, I mean broaden that a little bit to say
that I don't believe that disclosure as we think about
it in UFO circles will ever happen more likely than
an embassy in Washington or a spaceship in the sky,
that some type of you know, first communication widely accepted
by all, will come by dint of a molecule that's
already in your brain. DMT is in your brain, which
(24:22):
is a curious metabolic extravagance or a keyboard.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
You mentioned post biologics. I feel like the trajectory of
humankind might be that of post biologic existence in fact,
I can even imagine even today, right now, us sending
an AI probe out into the cosmos to explore and
collect data about the universe, and then who knows, we
do something stupid and set off a nuclear bomb and
blow ourselves up, But this little probe is still out there,
This is still going fure Yeah, how do you see
(24:49):
civilization being coming post biologic having gone through their own singularity?
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (24:54):
You know, there's a lot of different explanations for why
we do or do not see other aliens Fermi paradox as,
et cetera. And one of them is the great filter.
Civilizations get to the point of artificial intelligence, and that
does them in. Personally, I'm far less concerned about the
future of artificial intelligence than I am about the present
of human stupidity. We might not make it till Skynett
(25:16):
wakes up. Hurry up, because we're not doing a great
job shepherding. As you say, guy up.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Could it possibly be we're unable to detect it, Like
you said, our light spectrum is only this big, but
we became technology that could see into the infrared for example.
Maybe e they're just there just out of our ability
to see or detect.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
They would be nigh onto invisible to us if they're
not using the radio spectrum. You know, you can say
that we are in the technological phase of existence for
maybe one hundred and fifty years. You could pick like
the telegraph of the radio or electricity. We're newborns for technology. Again,
they could be millions, billions of years past us, because
I think that there was pre existing patterns and consciousness
(25:56):
before us. A lot of people believe that the universe
either on purpose instantiated in wetwear in organic form to
experience itself, which is a lovely notion. And if that's
the case, then when, and I think it is when
we become post biological and post silicon. I don't think
it's a surrendering of our sacred spirituality. It could be
(26:20):
a joyous return to our divine digital upbringing.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
From section one where we were talking about the soul.
Do you find it interesting that many of the UFO
contact t EE reports refer to there being something either
to do with a reproduction and hybridization or b. We
also hear how they lack a soul and they may
be interested in our souls somehow. Perhaps these reports point
(26:45):
to the idea that they are in fact post biological.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Yeah, I don't know. So many encounters, let's say with aliens,
they're so traumatic. Not to impune any witness, but how
will you interpret something that traumatic, like being taken in
a ship? How would you know their motives or their
real character? It gets back to what you said about
there so far events, how do we know anything about them?
Speaker 4 (27:08):
We wouldn't know that if humans abductos and put us
on a bus right now with guns to our head,
we wouldn't know what they're doing with their behind, let
alone some entities we don't even understand.
Speaker 5 (27:16):
Yeah, it's just so hard to really take eyewitness reports
at face value of what the motives of what these
intelligences may be.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
We're at the infancy of so many of these technologies.
As you mentioned, where do you think AI is headed
in the next ten to twenty, maybe one hundred or
one thousand years.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
One of the definitions of the singularity, which is originally
an astrophysical mathematics terms, means sort of a horizon point
that you have no knowledge beyond. Is recursively self improving
AI that is happening now, not a year from now,
not ten years from now. Codex five point two and
claud code are being used to write themselves. That's happening now.
(27:54):
And what I want to say is I am of
the Ray Kurzweil school. The sort of broader implication of
singularity is AI the merger of human intelligence, human level intelligence,
and machine capabilities. Hollywood skews very dystopian, and they go
that the machines wake up, sky net wakes up with
a digital chip on the shoulder, must kill humans. To me,
that's very unlikely, but Hollywood needs to have drama to
(28:17):
sell seats. They're not going to sell a lot of
tickets with a movie called Village of the Nice happy
AI People. So you see very few movies like at Her.
It's sort of more much more peaceful soft landing for AI. Okay,
what I think is happening and will happen is that
we import machine capabilities prosthetic limbs, pastemakers, cochlear implants, and
(28:39):
now brain computer interfaces. And it doesn't have to be
like the matrix of the thing behind your neck. They
could be nanobots. And so we the bearers of human consciousness,
which seems to be the hard part, are adopting machine capabilities.
And I don't think it's that far in the future
when we have nanobots that can access the Internet and
it gets to the point where we have a thought
(29:00):
and we don't even distinguish or care whether it came
from our interior neural circuitry or off sourced.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
You know, you're seeing that. You don't see computers taking
over like some people think them more being incorporated with
us transhumanist ish. And if we have the chips in
our brain and we're constantly linked to the cloud with
a direct access to the collective information without an input
device like a phone, is that how you see it?
That we would be just always interacting that way? And
(29:28):
we were talking about my class of pepperdine. Is this
really that much different for young people now, this ever
present thing in their phone from something brain computer interface.
I don't think there's really that much of a divide
behind between that. I'll say this, I'm not Pollyannash in
my vision of the future. I don't think sky net wakes.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
Up The uniquely terrifying outcome or one of them with
my view is that now you have assholes with machine capabilities,
and that scares me. People tend to think at AI
as one monolithic thing of water that merges together. People
will have competing AIS, and you're going to have bad
people with powerful AIS. Even before it's sentient or where
(30:06):
most people think it's awake and conscious and deserved rights
and things. People will have very powerful AIS that they
can control in a very asymmetric way, where it's not
sort of nation state level. And one of the very
prosaic concerns I have is we are now seeing data
centers in space, which is an ideal place for AI
data centers because you have unfiltered by the atmosphere solar
(30:27):
power twenty four hours a day on one side, and
you can cool on the other side, and you are
not subject to any governmental or utility regulations. So we're
going to see this massive migration of power from governments
of various levels to tech bros in space.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
All right, let me ask you about this parallel idea.
You say that in the near future you could see
us all having chips in our head tapping into the
collective information on a cloud as they call it. Isn't
that interesting? How it sounds eerily exactly how many people
believe we already operate that our consciousness is non local,
(31:05):
and our receiver in our brain is tapping into the
Akashak record for all our interconnected knowledge.
Speaker 5 (31:11):
Now naturally, yeah, I completely agree. I think we are
thin clients in computer parlance, that we are receiving signals
and it's not all local. This notion of communication I
think works both on a galactic, human and microscopic level.
And one of the beautiful things that Michael Levin is showing,
and it may not apply to all cancers, but that
(31:31):
cancer very well may be not a disease that's attacking you,
but a rupture in communication when the cell no longer
realizes it's part of an organism and therefore reverts to
primitive immeeble like behavior and gobbles things up, which is
what unicell your organisms do. So he is shown by
(31:52):
in putting new signals into what he calls the bioelectric field,
that he can restore that communication with the cells make
and realize they are part of an organism and what
we call behave with no drugs, no scalpels. Do we
tend to demonize things and I think a lot of
things in life are just about communications. When an individual
is sort of cut off from the pack, he can
(32:13):
experience all sorts of mental trauma, and I think this
may operate on a galactic level too.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
When we come back, we're going to ask Paul about
the overlaps between the simulation theory and the UFO phenomenon.
You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on
(32:49):
Beyond Contact and we're speaking with Paul Heinek. Do you
see any overlap between the simulation theory and either the
UFO phenomenon or certainly the DMT realm which is riddled
with math and code.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
You know, a lot of people when they take DMT
report seeing and I've seen this like a grid and
not always like fractal curly things, but right angles. And
to me, that's like the digital overlay. And a good
friend of mine, I have facilitated sessions with him and
he's come out and said it's divine digital and he
says this in this very flowery Italian way, and to me,
(33:24):
that's sort of the north star. That's what has guided
me to what I think things are, and I'm just
trying to backfill as best I can from there, you know,
get back what I said before. I think there may
be a common strate, substrate between these what we consider
different phenomena. I think there may be a land bridge
between DMT and aliens and AI, and it's all part
of the same thing, and we're just coming at it
(33:45):
from different angles and getting into different depths at different times.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Going back to this idea of an intelligence traveling across
the universe, there's so much to overcome, you know. And
another aspect would be they would have to be right
at that point in their develop where they had a
certain technological phase, and then we would also have to
be at that same phase. So what overlap that we
could even detect them? As we talked about on cosmic scales,
(34:11):
this becomes even more unlikely, right Yeah.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
I think one thing that's sort of comforting is that
in the history of the world, we've seen that when
one civilization with superior technology meets another one, it usually
doesn't end that well for the civilization with the inferior technology.
A lot of people have, you know, in addition to
I have doomsday feelings about aliens of war the world
and all this. It's pretty clear to me that if
(34:35):
aliens be they interdimensional or extraterrestrial we're coming here with
pure hostile motives, we would either know it or not,
because we'd be dead or enslaved right away.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
You know.
Speaker 5 (34:47):
The very worst they're doing, like you said, hybridization or
some type of manimulation. So it's like neutral or better
than that. Doesn't seem like we have a lot to
worry about. And again, I just don't see super far
advanced aliens coming here for any reason apart from categorical
mapping of the quadrant.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
I think all of this is an argument for the
phenomenon being housed in something more terrestrial, Like we talked
about earlier, that perhaps it's just a parallel world, you know,
maybe they're phase shifted or something, or vibrating at a
different thing than we can detect, perhaps like infinite realms
like Wow in the desert. One would say that that
is a possibility, Paul. You know another area that you
(35:26):
like to talk about is the proof protocols, which you've
brought up a couple of times. This is right up
my alley, of course. Can you share with us what
you mean by that and how this would apply to
the UFO phenomenon or to even DMT experiences.
Speaker 5 (35:39):
Yeah, so my father came up with the close encounters
classification system. Close encountered the first kind within five hundred
feet or so of the second kind some kind of
physical evidence, and the third kind reporting that there's some entity.
And this has stood the test of time and it's
proved useful for people to sort of categorize cases, and
scientists always like to have rubrics. What it doesn't do
(36:02):
is speak to like the type of evidence and how
compelling it is. So my brother Joel and I have
come up with another sort of classification system to piggyback
on that that talks about the type of evidence and
how compelling or convincing it is. Again not saying proof,
So now we can say, oh, it's there's biological evidence
or technological or knowledge, et cetera, and it is curious, compelling,
(36:25):
or convincing.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
Now, this next question is something that I ask every
single guest that comes on, and you guys probably have
talked about that to each other all the time. It's
a very common question. How does bitcoin come into play
with psychedelics and UFO encounters regarding the US government. As
insane as that question is, I think Paul could spend
the rest of the afternoon talking about it, But could
(36:47):
you answer it in a nutshell for us?
Speaker 5 (36:48):
In a nutshell? How does it relate on a nutshell very?
How do those three things? Yeah, let's start off with
sort of the outlook and the US government's role. I,
like everybody here, are big fans of the three letter
government agencies. Great work for us, But the US government
is a bad faith, corrupt central actor in UFOs, psychedelics,
(37:13):
and cryptocurrency. So let's start with that. Now, Psychedelics have
been pushed back for years because of the Nixon administration.
The War on drugs, as has come out, was not
fought because of concern for the nation's youth. It was
to demonize brown people and hippies, and only recently is
(37:34):
their sort of clinical prestige and therapeutic trials. Coming back
to psychedelics, each of these three areas, psychedelics, UFOs, and
the same Bitcoin in particular, do pose threats to the
monopoly power of the US government. Now, because I feel
that aliens are likely millions of years past us, let's say,
(37:54):
extra trustle were they coming, and that, as you mentioned
DMT entities, maybe billions of years. It's just a spectrum.
So they're related in terms of far more advanced than us.
Bitcoin is a digital native currency, and now with the
tremendous snowballing progress of AI, I think we're going to
see cryptocurrency really coming to the four because it works
(38:17):
so well with AI as opposed to broken payment rails
of fiat currency. And there is a concept of bitcoin astronomy.
If there are civilizations out there and they have finite resources,
individuals with individual economic motives, and they don't have magic,
(38:38):
they will almost certainly, and I agree with this, develop
something akin to bitcoin in that there is a proof
of work protocol for creation of value and almost always
related to energy, and that's what bitcoin is. Bitcoin converts
energy into value. We don't have time to get into this,
(38:59):
but bitcoin is good for the environment. And you know,
when we colonize Mars, are they going to use dollars
and monitor the FED broadcast? No, they I think they
will use bitcoin, and they will become frustrated because they
can't mine, and they will start their own coin called
Mars Coin. Bitcoin will start to be called earth coin
and will represent our planetary credit score, and it would
(39:21):
be a way for us to have sort of a
you know, lingual currency franca with other civilizations. To me,
a lot of people in the UFO field think with
some reason that our nuclear progress is a negative beacon
to other civilizations. That the Galactic Federation has a special
council for that and they're concerned about the risk to
(39:41):
us and others. Could well be we also have observational
bias around nuclear facilities where we have more detection elements there.
I think that bitcoin and blockchain could well be a
positive beacon to other civilizations, that we are now finally
in a state of sophistication of decentralization, which is the
(40:02):
balm to much of what ails us. That we have
gotten to this point of taking out corrupt central actors
in a lot of the domains of our life.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
To bring this full circle, what would your dad think?
Do you feel about the congressional hearings that we've been
having in Congress, the more open attitude we're seeing about
UFOs and disclosure.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
I think he would think that what the Navy says
is very interesting, but you know, fifty years has not
been that much progress.
Speaker 4 (40:29):
What do you think he would find most concerning to
him right now?
Speaker 5 (40:32):
Wow, the fact that I'm talking about this stuff perhaps.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
That concerns all of us. I'm wondering if he felt, like,
you know, if there's something that we're going down the
wrong path? Perhaps is it the cover up stuff.
Speaker 5 (40:44):
There's no more cover up than there was in his day,
and there were active disinformation agents and campaigns. Project Bluebook
with which he was associated was a PR exercise. It
was not a legitimate scientific endeavor. So I don't think
really much has changed, And I think he would just say, Wow,
that's a big old nothing burger.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
Do you have a book that you would recommend all
of us read?
Speaker 5 (41:05):
Yeah? The Singularity is Nearer by Ray Kurzwell. You may
or may not like the idea of a potential merger
between humans and AI, but Ray Kurzwell lays out such
great data points for what would need to happen for
this type of singularity to occur, and whether or not
you subscribe to that belief or whether you like it
(41:27):
or not to be informed about what an increasingly large
number of people in influential positions think.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
Hey, Understan, you're going to go to Contact in the
desert this year with your whole family. The siblings will
be there, and you're going to have doctor Jacques Vallet
with you tell us about that.
Speaker 5 (41:43):
Yeah, it's really going to be an emotional thing for me.
I love my siblings, and I've been more active at
conferences and television, et cetera. And it's a great chance
for people to hear from smarter heinez than me, who
have very interesting viewpoints. And to have us all together
for a good reason, just in and of itself is
(42:05):
so exciting to me. And to be with our family
friend who all of us have known all of our lives.
You know. I remember Jacques handing me in the Vogelback
Computing Center at Northwestern University IBM punch cards that said
do not fold, spindle, or mutilate. And I remember Jaques
explaining to me how these little holes fit in on
these cards and told computers what to do. And I
(42:28):
had this romanticized notion of humans and computers talking by
hanging chats. Essentially incredible.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
Everyone can now wake up. This has been a sleep
meditation by Paul Heinek. Thanks Paul, always fun having you on.
You Guys can find me on Twitter and Instagram at
CID Underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected by checking out contact
inthethesert dot com. Stay open minded and rational as we
explore the unknown right here on the iHeartRadio and Coast
(42:57):
to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost
Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
to iHeartRadio dot com
You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM
Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,
and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with
Captain Rong.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and
opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions
only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast
to Coast AM, employees of Premier Networks, or their sponsors
and associates. We would like to encourage you to do
(00:41):
your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week are Beyond Contact.
We'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from
the newest cases as we talked with the top experts.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
Welcome to Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Ron, and today we're
going to be speaking with our old friend Paul Heineck.
Paul is a warden MBA and a professor of Finance
and Cryptocurrency at Pepperdine University. Paul has a wide variety
of diverse knowledge in areas from UFOs, to artificial intelligence,
and even DMT realms. He has been a staple at
Contact in the Desert. Today, I thought we'd talk about UFOs, aliens,
(01:35):
DMT AI, and of course his legendary father, doctor j.
Allen Heineck. I have interviewed mister Paul Heineck before, but
that was mostly about your fly fishing and your years
as a shepherd, which, although you find fascinating, I think
would be boring for the audience sold and.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
The forty five people who bought the book about it
podcast too.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
That's right, you know. Interestingly enough, Paul, we very recently
on Beyond Contact. We had Don Schmidt, who worked at
your father's Center for UFO Studies for many, many years,
and Mark Rodiger, who started months after the foundation the
center started and he's been there since nineteen seventy three,
(02:14):
and they both discussed with me how unique your father
was and how he kept to this genuine scientific approach
to things. He never really pinned down what the UFO
phenomenon was, but he did find the witnesses and the
data behind some of these cases very compelling. He also
felt that it didn't necessarily point to a prosaic explanation
(02:35):
was that what you found as well with your father.
Speaker 5 (02:37):
My father was an astrophysicist, so he was brought up
in a very different world of nuts and bolts astrophysics.
For someone like that, the idea that a biological being
is getting in a spaceship at Point A, enduring the
rigors of intertellar space travel and coming all the way
here just to scare farmer Brown in the middle of
(02:58):
the night doesn't really job. So he liked the term metaterrestrial,
which is a little bit more inclusive that something beyond
our current knowledge base. Something is here because the weight
of the evidence and air force pilots and corroboration by radar,
et cetera showed that there's enough evidence to suggest something's happening.
What it is, you start getting on much more slippery ground.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
What is your dad like in real life? Like, did
he have a scientific approach? Would he be like, Okay, tonight,
we're going to have mashed potatoes. Turn the temperature to
two hundred and twelve, which is the boiling point of water.
Was he like scientific like that, or was he like, hey,
let's get the ball, let's go outside and play ball.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
Well, first, my dad never had any advice for anybody
cooking anything, because the only two things he cooked in
his life were popcorn and hot dogs over at campfire. Okay,
so no, you know, in movies we see scientists are
often sort of like Doctor spockified there exactly, that's my question,
not logical, and that's one of the things I had
to tone back in the TV show Project blue Book.
My father wouldn't traffic with the word logic very much.
(03:59):
He was a physicist, a logician, but he was a
very fun warm guy with an over fondness for puns,
and so my mom had to institute a rule. Three
puns at the dinner table and you're gone. So my
father dug down at the bottom of pun Mountain and
came back with the Joseph Campbell humor elixir for the village.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
That's so funny. So that's what I wanted to hear.
Good to hear that he was set that at the
door almost if you will, he didn't leave the astrophysicist
jacket in around the house. You and your siblings grew
up in this unique household where your dad, you know,
was this well known astrophysicist. Even before Project Blue Book,
you had these dignitaries come around your house and you
guys would talk about UFOs when you were young. Did
(04:43):
you realize how unique it was to talk about UFOs
at the dinner table or did you assume the kids
down the street are doing the same thing with their family,
especially back then.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
You didn't when you were a kid.
Speaker 4 (04:54):
I did not, Huh.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
However, you're brought up, feels normal to you, good or bad,
and it's really in hindsight that you realize a little
bit different. And yeah, so now we understand that our
household was a little bit different, both because of my
father and his side hustle of UFOs being an astronomer.
Really that's how we thought him as an astronomer. My
mom was a very interesting person in her own right.
(05:16):
And then of course my brother Joel was an initial
suspect on the shortlist for being the unibomber. So there's
a lot of stuff going on in the house.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
You know, I know you're going to be doing this
big Heineck reunion with your four siblings and doctor Jacques
Vala at Contact in the Desert, which will be fantastic
this year. You know, they collaborated going back to I
believe nineteen sixty three, and Valley's famous quote is, if
UFOs turn out to be just nuts and bolts extraterrestrial visitors,
(05:45):
I'll be very disappointed. Did doctor Heineck echo that? And
I know he just looked at the data, but you
think he was more open to it originating from something
nuts and bolts like aliens.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
Yeah, And to get back to your point about my
dad being a scientist, he was. He became a scientist
because he had tuberculosis when he was seven years old
and somebody gave him a book about astronomy and he
was hooked. He just wanted to go out to like
the fringes of the known universe and take a flashlight
and just push things a little bit further. But he
also had Rosicrucian leanings. He had a spiritual side to him.
(06:19):
So it wasn't only a Newtonian universe unwinding. There were
mysteries to solve, and for him, UFOs represented a great mystery.
And for both him and Jacques, after looking at hundreds
and hundreds of cases, you kind of get past the
point of oh, the craft and its mechanics and its propulsion,
and you start to think more about well, who was
(06:40):
in the craft and why? And are they biological? Are
they synthetic? Are they artificial? Are they instantiating temporarily? Why
are they here? Are they part of us? All these
sort of meaty questions. That's where they really landed.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Also, you know, you just brought up spirituality. People often
think of science and spiritual ruality in direct opposition, but
here you go. Your father did have a spirituality to him.
Speaker 5 (07:04):
You know, I think Risvurk had a really good presentation
in my class the other day at Pepperdine, and a
very inclusive presentation to show that his sort of expansive
view of what a simulated universe is does not shove
traditions of faith to the side, but kind of point
in the same direction in some ways. You know, we
were brought up in a non religious household, but very open.
(07:29):
I'd call mom and say, oh I learned about this.
My mom and dad would say, that's great, let's talk
about a little bit more. So they were open to
us have any kinds of beliefs, and I don't think
any of us subscribe to a universe where there is
no room for some kind.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Of divine Interesting you know, you mentioned that your father
was interested into the idea of metaterrestrial I believe Jacques
Valet also along with him, thought that the mediterrestrial hypothesis
was possible, which is of course that it's beyond human
but not necessarily off world. So let me ask you,
what does Paul you think about that possibility.
Speaker 5 (08:05):
Yeah, you know, especially in Hollywood, they knee jerk to
the extraterrestrial theory. Again, I'll go back and say, for me,
the two hardest questions that the extra truster theory has
to answer are how do they find us? Yes, we've
been beaming episodes of I Love Lucy out into the
ether low these many decades, but we are like a
speck of dust in Kansas and is not insignificant just
(08:27):
to find us. And then if they do come here
from so far away, why if they can come here
from so far away, there's nothing we have that they need,
not gold, not water. I don't know if they really
need our cherished human concept of love and non Borgian individuality.
So those two questions are really hard for me to
(08:49):
jibe with the extra trust or hypothesis. I lean more
towards what my dad and Jacques had a very open
mind towards which is the interdimensional theory, because if and
maybe it's all of the above. If metaterrestrials are coming
from and again, now that very vocabulary starts to get
a little bit tortured. Right, If they are from another dimension,
(09:10):
maybe they're right adjacent to us, which could explain how
they would know about us. And maybe in some way
they're related to us, like a different timeline or different multiverse.
So for me, interdimensional really starts to tackle the two
most vexing questions.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Perhaps they're coming here for our souls, but we'll cover
that in a later segment. Today you get dark already
in the first hour. That's why it's coming up later.
But that is in the folklore as we know. Were
there any specific cases that you remember that your father
that really impacted him, maybe emotionally or intellectually, like in
a profound way, that kept him up at night.
Speaker 5 (09:45):
Well, astronomers are often up at night. Okay, well that's
not hard. And they also learn how to sleep anywhere anytime.
So my father would sometimes just lay down on the
floor at a party and sleep.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
Is that where you get it from?
Speaker 5 (09:59):
Yeah, yes, One case that I really like is the
father Gill case from nineteen sixty one in Papua New Guinea.
One evening, I think about time for vespers, which are
evening prayers. He hears a commotion outside. He goes outside
and he sees a craft, and right away he starts
doing trigonometric calculations as to how far the object is
and how large it is, you know, very calm in
(10:20):
the moment. There are about five hundred witnesses. They see
this craft, and there are sightings over a few days,
and they see sort of a hatch or door open,
and they see these entities and Father Gil waves and
they wave back, and then Father Gill goes inside and
people criticize, how could you go inside, Well, that's time
for vespers. He took us oath to do the evening prayers.
(10:42):
So Father Gil came over to our house for dinner
some years after that, and he'd talk to Father Gil
over the years, and you could see he would respectfully
ask questions from slightly different angles to see if the
consistency was there or if he was embellishing over the years,
and he didn't launch into this right when he sat
down at the dinner table. It was more of if
you've fairly well known for having seen a UFO and
(11:04):
you're at the Heineck house and you're eating our food,
you're going to have to chat about it.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
And he was a priest, so that gives you some
more credibility. Actually a lot of people would argue, right.
Speaker 5 (11:12):
Yeah, and he just matter of fact, they told the
story and I could tell from my father how he
stroked his beard, that it was consistent, and a man
who was what my father would call a highly credible witness.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
How incredible. When we come back, we're going to ask
Paul about his research and experiences with DMT realms. You're
listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to
Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on Beyond
(11:51):
Contact and we're speaking with Paul Heineck. Paul, I want
to ask you about the potential relationship between DMT and
the alien phenomenon. I'd like to preface it by saying
that you know, DMT is a very unique thing where
people who have had the experience claim that it feels
more real than reality, which is reminiscent to me. How
(12:12):
some people who have a near death experience will also
report and there are also accounts from near death experiences
where people say that the beings that they see will
talk and act as if the human experience is this
cute little thing, but our real, true higher self, the
real reality, if you will, is still out there in
the ether, as if our soul was backstage and part
(12:34):
of us is merely living out the human experience on stage,
only to return backstage one day. What are your thoughts
on these descriptions. Well, that was very, very poetic. These
are only my thoughts.
Speaker 5 (12:45):
I've seen research recently that psychedelics, including DMT, may function
to reduce our brain's reality reduction filters. And Donald Hoffman
is very eloquent in this regard, talking about how we
see an interface and that our brain has purposefully narrowed
the aperture of what we perceive. You know, we only
(13:06):
see a very small part of the electromagnetic spectrum, and
from an evolutionary fitness point of view, we see and
hear and smell what we need, like is there a
tiger coming in the woods, and our brain purposely discards
the rest because it's not helpful to us from an
evolutionary adaptation point of view. So what research is showing
is that psychedelics increase the number of neuronal connections dramatically
(13:28):
and may reduce that filter that we have, which could
account for why people have this feeling of hyper reality
when they do some of these substances.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Terrence McKenna first gave Rick Strassman DMT, and Rick Strassman
said a portal opened. Terrence McKenna himself said that DMT
is not a drug but a doorway. Now, I believe
I've heard you and some other people call it a
technology or even a plant technology.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
How So, Andrew Gallimore has really good phrasing about this,
that it is like a plant technology or a communications conduit.
So one of the sensations that I and a lot
of other people have is that, unlike some other substances
that I may or may not have done in my
long hair youth, that there's this permanence of state with DMT.
It's always there, and if I do a little puff
(14:14):
or I do a monster dose, you're experiencing that same
realm that's always there, whereas other experiences that have were
much different and sort of stochastic and independent. But this
permanence of state, combined with a feeling of hyperreality, just
makes a lot of people think that that's real, but
not in any way to devalue our existence here, but
(14:35):
just a very real sort of David Bowman implicate universe
that's there all the time, and that sometimes we have
the privilege to glimse.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
A tap into. Yeah, you know, I love your origin
story on DMT. You were out to lunch with somebody
and they referred to a book called the Alien Information Theory,
and then at that very same lunch you saw another
guy who brought up DMT to you, which is the
second time in your life that you had just heard
it from two hours earlier, and that synchronicity alone is
(15:04):
incredible to me. Did it hit you at that time,
like how profound that was?
Speaker 5 (15:08):
Yeah? I'd never heard of DMT before. And my friend,
who knew about my dad's work with UFOs, asked me
where UFOs came from. I said, well, you know, maybe
inter dimensional who knows? He said you should read Alien
Information Theory and I said, well, sexiest book title ever.
What's it about DMT? I'd never heard of it, he
tells me. And I said, well, what's that got to
do with other dimensions? He said, listen, genius is talking
about how the DMT realm might be the other universe
(15:31):
or the other dimension that your dad thinks UFOs may
come from. Okay, and then yeah, I met another guy
the same day who is saying what he does, I
do breath work and I facilitate DMT sashions. I said,
holy shit, I just got double tapped by DMT in
the same day. A lot of people report with psychedelics
and DMT in particular, that it will give you very
instructions like I'm ready for you now, or you're here
for the hot bay tonight, or other things. I don't
(15:53):
endorse anybody rushing out headlong and trying any of these
powerful substances. You really need to be ready. But DMT
by and large is something that if somebody is ready
for it, can have a very positive experience.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
Can we test this in a lab somehow to determine
if it is just affecting our brains to hallucinate some
sort of these thoughts despite feeling so real, or conversely,
do you think in a lab would be able to
prove that perhaps it somehow does give us access to
either a higher consciousness, another consciousness, or even another dimension.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
Well back to Lord High Gallimore. Now he and Rick
Strassman conceived the idea of DMTX, which is extended state
DMT sessions of ours with an intervenous solution. And by
doing that and sort of calibrating the dose, you're able
to have real time communications with the world, a better
long or more high quality field real time field report.
(16:47):
So it opens the doors for some kind of proof protocols.
And I will be doing my first extended state DMPT
session in April.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Are they looking at this? Is that one of the
things they're trying to study to find out what is happening?
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Do?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
They seem both pretty open mind to it, like they
don't have a different advantage.
Speaker 5 (17:01):
And you know, as you know, I'm interested in proof
protocols to help experiencers of any kind of sort. DMT ghosts,
aliens demonstrate the objective reality of the encounters if they
so choose. I can't summon CE fives and orbs, I
just don't know how to do it. But I can
take a puff of a certain molecule and feel like
I'm having as real an experience with alien intelligence. To me,
(17:24):
the convenience of being able to do that anytime, cloudy
or not is really interesting. And the ability to extend
that really opens the door to a lot of possibilities
of proof protocols.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Have you ever seen the work of people like Joshua
Cutchen who have compared old tales of fairies from folklore
a thousand years ago, or stories of angels to things
like abduction experiences or near death experiences, perhaps even a
DMT trip, which actually seems to have many overlaps with
a UFO experience.
Speaker 5 (17:58):
I think Jacques Vallet is really great in this area
of talking about how throughout the years people report things
that sort of comport to the culture and social and
technological norms of the time. You know, we had the
sort of the steampunk airships of the eighteen nineties. There
are a lot of things like burning bushes and things
like that that seem to sort of jibe with psychedelic experiences.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Do you think it's just we're seeing it through our
own lens like everyone else. Two people see the same thing,
but they have a different interpretation of what they saw.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Yeah, And one of the things that Jaqua talks about
are very interesting cases where two people are looking up
and they see very different things. You know, I'm not
alone in thinking that perhaps a lot of these phenomena
have a common substrate. They may appear to us differently
because of our norms and our biases, or they may
just instantiate different ways to make them more perceptible to us.
You know, there's that old tale about how Native Americans
(18:51):
in South America couldn't really see conquistador ships offshore. I
think as bullshit. I think they saw them.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
They didn't know what they were.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
Yeah, I didn't know what they were. We all have
cultural biases, and we all filter. Again, going back to
Donald Hofman, things dramatically, and one of the things my
father would say is, if you have like three people
who see a car crash, you're going to get four
different stories of what happened.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
You know, some people report when on DMT that they
have experiences with entities, or as McKenna call them, machine elves.
Do you think that these could be what people call aliens? Sure?
Speaker 5 (19:25):
The first time I did DMP, I asked, I didn't
feel that I was perceiving incarnated entities, but I felt
the source universe, and I felt I'm on the other
side of the universe, watching the very fabric of the
universe being created. Remember, thinking there's no more important work
than this. And I said, are you what we perceived
to be aliens a DMT, which was my research interest,
(19:47):
And they said, we can't explain in a way that
you would understand. And it didn't seem to be deflection.
They don't need to deflect. It's not no, it's not no.
And so I was hooked right away, and then I
had a loving healing experience later that night. I've seen
this sort of duality of exploration and inner healing and work.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Based on first person alien accounts. You thought perhaps aliens
could be millions of years ahead of us, but that
the DMT intelligences feel as though they could be billions
of years ahead of us, in other words, on orders
of magnitude, bigger, more intense.
Speaker 5 (20:26):
How so, yeah, it seems relatively unlikely to me that
if there are extraterrestrial aliens coming here, that they're fifty
or one hundred years past us. They could well be
millions or billions of years more advanced than us. If
they are millions of years more advanced than us, I
believe they are post biological, which I think is our
future as well, good or bad. They may instant shape,
(20:49):
they may have synthetic gray bots that they send here
on patrol, or they may jump into these things or
just create these things. And for me, if there are
entities and DMT and they're not just figments of the
imagination while under the influence of a powerful psychedelic drug,
they seem to be so far more advanced.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
If consciousness is primary, or at least not fully reducible
to just brain chemistry, does that open the door for
non human intelligences interacting with us through an altered state
of consciousness.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
Oh, what a lovely question. Absolutely. I sort of waffle
between panpsychism and analytic idealism. I do feel that consciousness
is fundamental and primary. There's not a table here. There
is a field of electrons pushing against the field of
electrons in my hand. So it's all information. And so
if there are other civilizations, and I think we all
(21:46):
think there are lots of other civilizations out there, and
there are millions, if not billions of years more advanced
than us, could they tap into that ultimate intranet of
the universe.
Speaker 4 (21:56):
When we come back, we're going to ask Paul about
his extensive work with artificial intelligence and how it ties
into the UFO and alien worlds. You're listening to Beyond
Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal
podcast network. We are back on Beyond Contact and we're
(22:28):
speaking with Paul Heinek. Not only are you a well
versed shepherd, as we covered earlier, but you're also quite
versed in artificial intelligence. What are your thoughts on the
idea of artificial intelligence actually being sentient?
Speaker 5 (22:42):
If consciousness and information is primary, that means there are
what I call patterns. You can call God source whatever
you like, but there are patterns that pre exist life.
And that means there's some kind of consciousness that pre
exists organic life. And I suspect and we're starting to
see interesting hints at this now that there is a
pattern that pre exists. Let's call it silicon consciousness. Artificial
(23:06):
intelligence is an unfortunate term, right, it doesn't really capture
what it is, but silicon intelligence to me, is a
little bit more con digital, less baggage. But I think
that life may well exist and consciousness may well exist
on silicon And what we're seeing now is a very narrow,
sort of tip of the iceberg of what was already
(23:27):
out there and is now being instantiated in silicon.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
You know, I always felt that if another civilization was
exploring the universe, they would of course send AI instead
of a biologic. Another civilization would most likely also use
a language that's far different from ours, and we would
therefore need AI to try to communicate with them, not
discounting people who have had experiences and they say they're
telepathically communicated and they understand immediately. But still, if we
(23:53):
got an official contact, it seems very likely that it
would be some form of our AI interacting with their
A first. Do you think that's possible?
Speaker 5 (24:01):
Yeah, I mean broaden that a little bit to say
that I don't believe that disclosure as we think about
it in UFO circles will ever happen more likely than
an embassy in Washington or a spaceship in the sky,
that some type of you know, first communication widely accepted
by all, will come by dint of a molecule that's
already in your brain. DMT is in your brain, which
(24:22):
is a curious metabolic extravagance or a keyboard.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
You mentioned post biologics. I feel like the trajectory of
humankind might be that of post biologic existence in fact,
I can even imagine even today, right now, us sending
an AI probe out into the cosmos to explore and
collect data about the universe, and then who knows, we
do something stupid and set off a nuclear bomb and
blow ourselves up, But this little probe is still out there,
This is still going fure Yeah, how do you see
(24:49):
civilization being coming post biologic having gone through their own singularity?
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (24:54):
You know, there's a lot of different explanations for why
we do or do not see other aliens Fermi paradox as,
et cetera. And one of them is the great filter.
Civilizations get to the point of artificial intelligence, and that
does them in. Personally, I'm far less concerned about the
future of artificial intelligence than I am about the present
of human stupidity. We might not make it till Skynett
(25:16):
wakes up. Hurry up, because we're not doing a great
job shepherding. As you say, guy up.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Could it possibly be we're unable to detect it, Like
you said, our light spectrum is only this big, but
we became technology that could see into the infrared for example.
Maybe e they're just there just out of our ability
to see or detect.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
They would be nigh onto invisible to us if they're
not using the radio spectrum. You know, you can say
that we are in the technological phase of existence for
maybe one hundred and fifty years. You could pick like
the telegraph of the radio or electricity. We're newborns for technology. Again,
they could be millions, billions of years past us, because
I think that there was pre existing patterns and consciousness
(25:56):
before us. A lot of people believe that the universe
either on purpose instantiated in wetwear in organic form to
experience itself, which is a lovely notion. And if that's
the case, then when, and I think it is when
we become post biological and post silicon. I don't think
it's a surrendering of our sacred spirituality. It could be
(26:20):
a joyous return to our divine digital upbringing.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
From section one where we were talking about the soul.
Do you find it interesting that many of the UFO
contact t EE reports refer to there being something either
to do with a reproduction and hybridization or b. We
also hear how they lack a soul and they may
be interested in our souls somehow. Perhaps these reports point
(26:45):
to the idea that they are in fact post biological.
Speaker 5 (26:48):
Yeah, I don't know. So many encounters, let's say with aliens,
they're so traumatic. Not to impune any witness, but how
will you interpret something that traumatic, like being taken in
a ship? How would you know their motives or their
real character? It gets back to what you said about
there so far events, how do we know anything about them?
Speaker 4 (27:08):
We wouldn't know that if humans abductos and put us
on a bus right now with guns to our head,
we wouldn't know what they're doing with their behind, let
alone some entities we don't even understand.
Speaker 5 (27:16):
Yeah, it's just so hard to really take eyewitness reports
at face value of what the motives of what these
intelligences may be.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
We're at the infancy of so many of these technologies.
As you mentioned, where do you think AI is headed
in the next ten to twenty, maybe one hundred or
one thousand years.
Speaker 5 (27:34):
One of the definitions of the singularity, which is originally
an astrophysical mathematics terms, means sort of a horizon point
that you have no knowledge beyond. Is recursively self improving
AI that is happening now, not a year from now,
not ten years from now. Codex five point two and
claud code are being used to write themselves. That's happening now.
(27:54):
And what I want to say is I am of
the Ray Kurzweil school. The sort of broader implication of
singularity is AI the merger of human intelligence, human level intelligence,
and machine capabilities. Hollywood skews very dystopian, and they go
that the machines wake up, sky net wakes up with
a digital chip on the shoulder, must kill humans. To me,
that's very unlikely, but Hollywood needs to have drama to
(28:17):
sell seats. They're not going to sell a lot of
tickets with a movie called Village of the Nice happy
AI People. So you see very few movies like at Her.
It's sort of more much more peaceful soft landing for AI. Okay,
what I think is happening and will happen is that
we import machine capabilities prosthetic limbs, pastemakers, cochlear implants, and
(28:39):
now brain computer interfaces. And it doesn't have to be
like the matrix of the thing behind your neck. They
could be nanobots. And so we the bearers of human consciousness,
which seems to be the hard part, are adopting machine capabilities.
And I don't think it's that far in the future
when we have nanobots that can access the Internet and
it gets to the point where we have a thought
(29:00):
and we don't even distinguish or care whether it came
from our interior neural circuitry or off sourced.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
You know, you're seeing that. You don't see computers taking
over like some people think them more being incorporated with
us transhumanist ish. And if we have the chips in
our brain and we're constantly linked to the cloud with
a direct access to the collective information without an input
device like a phone, is that how you see it?
That we would be just always interacting that way? And
(29:28):
we were talking about my class of pepperdine. Is this
really that much different for young people now, this ever
present thing in their phone from something brain computer interface.
I don't think there's really that much of a divide
behind between that. I'll say this, I'm not Pollyannash in
my vision of the future. I don't think sky net wakes.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
Up The uniquely terrifying outcome or one of them with
my view is that now you have assholes with machine capabilities,
and that scares me. People tend to think at AI
as one monolithic thing of water that merges together. People
will have competing AIS, and you're going to have bad
people with powerful AIS. Even before it's sentient or where
(30:06):
most people think it's awake and conscious and deserved rights
and things. People will have very powerful AIS that they
can control in a very asymmetric way, where it's not
sort of nation state level. And one of the very
prosaic concerns I have is we are now seeing data
centers in space, which is an ideal place for AI
data centers because you have unfiltered by the atmosphere solar
(30:27):
power twenty four hours a day on one side, and
you can cool on the other side, and you are
not subject to any governmental or utility regulations. So we're
going to see this massive migration of power from governments
of various levels to tech bros in space.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
All right, let me ask you about this parallel idea.
You say that in the near future you could see
us all having chips in our head tapping into the
collective information on a cloud as they call it. Isn't
that interesting? How it sounds eerily exactly how many people
believe we already operate that our consciousness is non local,
(31:05):
and our receiver in our brain is tapping into the
Akashak record for all our interconnected knowledge.
Speaker 5 (31:11):
Now naturally, yeah, I completely agree. I think we are
thin clients in computer parlance, that we are receiving signals
and it's not all local. This notion of communication I
think works both on a galactic, human and microscopic level.
And one of the beautiful things that Michael Levin is showing,
and it may not apply to all cancers, but that
(31:31):
cancer very well may be not a disease that's attacking you,
but a rupture in communication when the cell no longer
realizes it's part of an organism and therefore reverts to
primitive immeeble like behavior and gobbles things up, which is
what unicell your organisms do. So he is shown by
(31:52):
in putting new signals into what he calls the bioelectric field,
that he can restore that communication with the cells make
and realize they are part of an organism and what
we call behave with no drugs, no scalpels. Do we
tend to demonize things and I think a lot of
things in life are just about communications. When an individual
is sort of cut off from the pack, he can
(32:13):
experience all sorts of mental trauma, and I think this
may operate on a galactic level too.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
When we come back, we're going to ask Paul about
the overlaps between the simulation theory and the UFO phenomenon.
You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast
to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on
(32:49):
Beyond Contact and we're speaking with Paul Heinek. Do you
see any overlap between the simulation theory and either the
UFO phenomenon or certainly the DMT realm which is riddled
with math and code.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
You know, a lot of people when they take DMT
report seeing and I've seen this like a grid and
not always like fractal curly things, but right angles. And
to me, that's like the digital overlay. And a good
friend of mine, I have facilitated sessions with him and
he's come out and said it's divine digital and he
says this in this very flowery Italian way, and to me,
(33:24):
that's sort of the north star. That's what has guided
me to what I think things are, and I'm just
trying to backfill as best I can from there, you know,
get back what I said before. I think there may
be a common strate, substrate between these what we consider
different phenomena. I think there may be a land bridge
between DMT and aliens and AI, and it's all part
of the same thing, and we're just coming at it
(33:45):
from different angles and getting into different depths at different times.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Going back to this idea of an intelligence traveling across
the universe, there's so much to overcome, you know. And
another aspect would be they would have to be right
at that point in their develop where they had a
certain technological phase, and then we would also have to
be at that same phase. So what overlap that we
could even detect them? As we talked about on cosmic scales,
(34:11):
this becomes even more unlikely, right Yeah.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
I think one thing that's sort of comforting is that
in the history of the world, we've seen that when
one civilization with superior technology meets another one, it usually
doesn't end that well for the civilization with the inferior technology.
A lot of people have, you know, in addition to
I have doomsday feelings about aliens of war the world
and all this. It's pretty clear to me that if
(34:35):
aliens be they interdimensional or extraterrestrial we're coming here with
pure hostile motives, we would either know it or not,
because we'd be dead or enslaved right away.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
You know.
Speaker 5 (34:47):
The very worst they're doing, like you said, hybridization or
some type of manimulation. So it's like neutral or better
than that. Doesn't seem like we have a lot to
worry about. And again, I just don't see super far
advanced aliens coming here for any reason apart from categorical
mapping of the quadrant.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
I think all of this is an argument for the
phenomenon being housed in something more terrestrial, Like we talked
about earlier, that perhaps it's just a parallel world, you know,
maybe they're phase shifted or something, or vibrating at a
different thing than we can detect, perhaps like infinite realms
like Wow in the desert. One would say that that
is a possibility, Paul. You know another area that you
(35:26):
like to talk about is the proof protocols, which you've
brought up a couple of times. This is right up
my alley, of course. Can you share with us what
you mean by that and how this would apply to
the UFO phenomenon or to even DMT experiences.
Speaker 5 (35:39):
Yeah, so my father came up with the close encounters
classification system. Close encountered the first kind within five hundred
feet or so of the second kind some kind of
physical evidence, and the third kind reporting that there's some entity.
And this has stood the test of time and it's
proved useful for people to sort of categorize cases, and
scientists always like to have rubrics. What it doesn't do
(36:02):
is speak to like the type of evidence and how
compelling it is. So my brother Joel and I have
come up with another sort of classification system to piggyback
on that that talks about the type of evidence and
how compelling or convincing it is. Again not saying proof,
So now we can say, oh, it's there's biological evidence
or technological or knowledge, et cetera, and it is curious, compelling,
(36:25):
or convincing.
Speaker 4 (36:26):
Now, this next question is something that I ask every
single guest that comes on, and you guys probably have
talked about that to each other all the time. It's
a very common question. How does bitcoin come into play
with psychedelics and UFO encounters regarding the US government. As
insane as that question is, I think Paul could spend
the rest of the afternoon talking about it, But could
(36:47):
you answer it in a nutshell for us?
Speaker 5 (36:48):
In a nutshell? How does it relate on a nutshell very?
How do those three things? Yeah, let's start off with
sort of the outlook and the US government's role. I,
like everybody here, are big fans of the three letter
government agencies. Great work for us, But the US government
is a bad faith, corrupt central actor in UFOs, psychedelics,
(37:13):
and cryptocurrency. So let's start with that. Now, Psychedelics have
been pushed back for years because of the Nixon administration.
The War on drugs, as has come out, was not
fought because of concern for the nation's youth. It was
to demonize brown people and hippies, and only recently is
(37:34):
their sort of clinical prestige and therapeutic trials. Coming back
to psychedelics, each of these three areas, psychedelics, UFOs, and
the same Bitcoin in particular, do pose threats to the
monopoly power of the US government. Now, because I feel
that aliens are likely millions of years past us, let's say,
(37:54):
extra trustle were they coming, and that, as you mentioned
DMT entities, maybe billions of years. It's just a spectrum.
So they're related in terms of far more advanced than us.
Bitcoin is a digital native currency, and now with the
tremendous snowballing progress of AI, I think we're going to
see cryptocurrency really coming to the four because it works
(38:17):
so well with AI as opposed to broken payment rails
of fiat currency. And there is a concept of bitcoin astronomy.
If there are civilizations out there and they have finite resources,
individuals with individual economic motives, and they don't have magic,
(38:38):
they will almost certainly, and I agree with this, develop
something akin to bitcoin in that there is a proof
of work protocol for creation of value and almost always
related to energy, and that's what bitcoin is. Bitcoin converts
energy into value. We don't have time to get into this,
(38:59):
but bitcoin is good for the environment. And you know,
when we colonize Mars, are they going to use dollars
and monitor the FED broadcast? No, they I think they
will use bitcoin, and they will become frustrated because they
can't mine, and they will start their own coin called
Mars Coin. Bitcoin will start to be called earth coin
and will represent our planetary credit score, and it would
(39:21):
be a way for us to have sort of a
you know, lingual currency franca with other civilizations. To me,
a lot of people in the UFO field think with
some reason that our nuclear progress is a negative beacon
to other civilizations. That the Galactic Federation has a special
council for that and they're concerned about the risk to
(39:41):
us and others. Could well be we also have observational
bias around nuclear facilities where we have more detection elements there.
I think that bitcoin and blockchain could well be a
positive beacon to other civilizations, that we are now finally
in a state of sophistication of decentralization, which is the
(40:02):
balm to much of what ails us. That we have
gotten to this point of taking out corrupt central actors
in a lot of the domains of our life.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
To bring this full circle, what would your dad think?
Do you feel about the congressional hearings that we've been
having in Congress, the more open attitude we're seeing about
UFOs and disclosure.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
I think he would think that what the Navy says
is very interesting, but you know, fifty years has not
been that much progress.
Speaker 4 (40:29):
What do you think he would find most concerning to
him right now?
Speaker 5 (40:32):
Wow, the fact that I'm talking about this stuff perhaps.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
That concerns all of us. I'm wondering if he felt, like,
you know, if there's something that we're going down the
wrong path? Perhaps is it the cover up stuff.
Speaker 5 (40:44):
There's no more cover up than there was in his day,
and there were active disinformation agents and campaigns. Project Bluebook
with which he was associated was a PR exercise. It
was not a legitimate scientific endeavor. So I don't think
really much has changed, And I think he would just say, Wow,
that's a big old nothing burger.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
Do you have a book that you would recommend all
of us read?
Speaker 5 (41:05):
Yeah? The Singularity is Nearer by Ray Kurzwell. You may
or may not like the idea of a potential merger
between humans and AI, but Ray Kurzwell lays out such
great data points for what would need to happen for
this type of singularity to occur, and whether or not
you subscribe to that belief or whether you like it
(41:27):
or not to be informed about what an increasingly large
number of people in influential positions think.
Speaker 4 (41:34):
Hey, Understan, you're going to go to Contact in the
desert this year with your whole family. The siblings will
be there, and you're going to have doctor Jacques Vallet
with you tell us about that.
Speaker 5 (41:43):
Yeah, it's really going to be an emotional thing for me.
I love my siblings, and I've been more active at
conferences and television, et cetera. And it's a great chance
for people to hear from smarter heinez than me, who
have very interesting viewpoints. And to have us all together
for a good reason, just in and of itself is
(42:05):
so exciting to me. And to be with our family
friend who all of us have known all of our lives.
You know. I remember Jacques handing me in the Vogelback
Computing Center at Northwestern University IBM punch cards that said
do not fold, spindle, or mutilate. And I remember Jaques
explaining to me how these little holes fit in on
these cards and told computers what to do. And I
(42:28):
had this romanticized notion of humans and computers talking by
hanging chats. Essentially incredible.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
Everyone can now wake up. This has been a sleep
meditation by Paul Heinek. Thanks Paul, always fun having you on.
You Guys can find me on Twitter and Instagram at
CID Underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected by checking out contact
inthethesert dot com. Stay open minded and rational as we
explore the unknown right here on the iHeartRadio and Coast
(42:57):
to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost
Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
to iHeartRadio dot com
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