A Momma Like Lisa Landry

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to the BFF Blackfeffem podcasts on the iHeart
podcast Network. Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the
Blackfeffim podcast where all the intersections of adity are celebrated.
I am one of your hosts, John also known as
a doctor John Paul, and I just want to know

(00:21):
can we please get some precedented times? Like why does
our entire lifetime life live have to be unprecedented? Can
I just get a day with nothing but good news?
Like what did Mama saying? The whiz don't bring me
no bad news? I just want to day where I
could turn on literally I pull up on threads, I

(00:44):
literally pull up on social media, says somebody a text
and it's just nothing but good news because right now,
just even a few hours, like right now, it feels
like every single day is some BS. And I just
was like I would honestly pay for at this point,
like if somebody said give me ten dollars for some.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Good news, literally some good some good news, I'll do it.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
It's given, Toyota, it's given Rivian, it's given give me
something like man, yeah, put something together for me so
I can have some good news. But anyway, enough of
me complainting, because I know that there are a lot
of things that we can be we can be very
grateful for. And one of the things I wanted to
quickly say before we start the show, I wanted to

(01:28):
quickly say that, literally last week we passed two hundred episodes,
and I just want to say I want to find
some joy in that, because, hey Jesus, we we literally
to think that we pitched the show three years ago
and we were only supposed to get ten episodes.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
I am dying at you.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
This is exclusive.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yes, yes, give me a lucky Patreon for this.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Literally that literally, but I just love that you are
doing your makeup as I'm literally sending all this love
out into the ether. But with that being said, you know,
we were only supposed to be a ten episodes and
now we are literally up by two hundred percent.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
Ain't that something?

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Especially when folks said we would run out of shit
to gab about.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
They literally came to us and say, hey, ho wins
back then, m you nerd, You're not gonna have nothing to.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Talk about, and look at us two hundred and one episodes.
My god, my god, you know, the Lord will make
the devil your footstool every single time. But anyway, I
want to say, I don't take that for granted to
our three hundred, four hundred, five hundred plus listeners we
have every week. He fluctuates, but we really want to

(02:49):
say to the people who are faithful listeners. I've had
people run up on me. I've had people DM me.
I've had people you know will send me you know
clips and say, oh my god, I listened to your
show and I love this thing.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
Can we do more? Yes, Like I just love.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
Love, love, love the love that you continue to give
me and Joho, I want to say thank you. I
wanted to say a special thank you to Will Lindsay,
Anna Joel who keeps believing in our show. We were
talking about this. We've had some we've had some changes.
There are some changes that are happening. Restructuring, restructuring, honey,
there are some changes that are happening in the background.

(03:25):
And to just know that when I reached out to
specific people and I want to shout them out because
I again, I love them Anna and Joe. I reached
out to them about some of the changes and they
literally said, no, we got your back. We're going to
always be there. Just know that they continue to keep
believing in us and believing in our show and giving
us a platform. It really means a lot. And so
I want to say that it's not lost on me
how the story could be different, and it could be

(03:48):
very different for both me and Joho and our journey,
but yet we're still here. And so I just wanted
to say to our listeners, thank you so much for
rocking with us every single week. But anyway, enough of
me being a samp. How are you Joho?

Speaker 2 (04:01):
You know I have to say in this moment, I
think about I used to often during the pandemic, when
we were you know, virtue all the time, I would
sometimes put my eyebrows on during staff meetings, like during
like internal calls. Yeah, and like one day my boss
was like, Jordan, I appreciate that you feel so comfortable
with everybody here, but some people find it disrespectful. And

(04:24):
it's funny because I actually, like I like to me,
it's like my eyebrows sometimes are kind of like my
like my fidget spinners, Like it just helps me feel
centered to do them, and so it's it's like, so
I'm like, so I just want to say, like I
sometimes I feel more present when I'm doing it because I'm
doing a simple action that is like muscle memory, So
I feel more.

Speaker 4 (04:44):
Present to hear everything you're saying. But maybe think of
that moment of like, damn, I know how to do this
that work, they'd be like, what the fuck you doing? Bitch?
Who girl?

Speaker 1 (04:53):
Maybe if they put their eyebrows on, they feel better
about life.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
I'm saying, like, you want to be a well Jesus,
let's wake that ship up.

Speaker 4 (05:01):
Yeah? Anyway, it's friends, it's your girl, Jordan aka Joe.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
I also have to give gratitude to two hundred episodes. Honestly,
sometimes I forget what we're doing that what we're doing
is making history now John, and it really is. It
truly is it's podcasts for Spring groundbreaking, but it really
is groundbreaking, and it is changing lives, like it is
a thing where I recognize like like we are like

(05:27):
like and I'm not someone who it's like I when
people say I love a show in person, it's always
really sweet, and I think it's like, I don't need
the I don't need the affirmation, but I really appreciate
it because I feel that like I truly believe that
what we're doing is impacting lives, and I am so thankful.

Speaker 4 (05:45):
To be doing it, doing it, doing it alongside and
like at.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
The very least, what we have done and are doing
it's creating an archive of black corn trans experiences in
the world and that is really really special. Yeah, and
so I'm thankful to be having the privilege of in
this show. If you maybe do it fort least two
and or more episodes, babe, if not more. Thank y'all
for believing in black creators, black great careers, black flat

(06:08):
theem creators.

Speaker 4 (06:10):
Thank you for keeping us paid.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
Thank you you know, like like like thank you probably
sustaining to those people. And thank you also for always
then not just for rocking with us, but thank you
to the listeners to always also like funding relevance. What
we say, it also means a lot that you continue
to find relevance and what we share that's real with
you all, and that you find like that you find
you feel a little bit of a presentation. Yeah, what

(06:33):
we're saying, we can feel seen, and that means a.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Lot, very real, very real, And I know we can
spend lots of time talking about and maybe you know
that's actually what we could do, we could do you know,
maybe we haven't done a we we had plans to
do a two hundred episode. Those plans got dashed, and
so maybe as we're you know, coming in the coming weeks,
maybe we have another episode where it's just us at

(06:57):
the kitchen table. We can literally sit down and just
to kind of talk about what the two hundred episode.
You know, it's again, it's been almost four years that
we've been on the air. What it what it's been like,
you know what the ups, the downs, the joys, the
you know, the moments where we probably were extremely frustrated
and we wanted to throw something. I think people hear
podcasts and they just think all we do is turn

(07:18):
on a mic. But there's so much work that goes
into getting guests on the show, getting a show flow,
or getting a we call them show flows over here,
getting a flow that ultimately feels good for both us
and the guest, and then also trying to find things
that are relevant. And it's just it's a lot of work.

(07:39):
It is a lot of work. And I think, you know,
when people say I love your show, I'm like, thank you,
because that's them saying they love the you know, the
work and the because it.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
Really is. It's it's an everyday thing, back and forth.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Hours of listening, editing, it is working with the editor,
is thinking of marketing strategy, like.

Speaker 4 (08:01):
There's a lot daily, it's clipping, like, yeah, a lot
of things.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Daily, even just I like this morning woke up and
was like oops, I forgot to do this thing. And
so yeah, it is a it is a job. I
think people think, you know, we just turn on the
mic one day and we get paid to do this,
and I'm like, yeah, we do. But there's also a
lot of other things that go into making a quote
unquote good show. And so shout out to the other
podcasters out there who are setting a precipice for us

(08:26):
and continuing to remind us that our show is just
as important as theirs, and that there's a need for
this show still in this moment. And that's the thing
I honestly won't I refuse to let go, is that
this right now, more than anything, Black Fefem is needed.
So I'm really really thankful to still be here on
the mic. But anyway, all that to be said, this
week we are celebrating Oh so you want to talk

(08:47):
about mothers. We're gonna talk about our mothers. If you
listened last week, you know what, you know what that
re ins is from. But with them, Yes, this week
we are talking about mothers of all mothers and considering
that Mother's Day is coming up in a couple of days,

(09:10):
I do want to say up top that I do
realize that celebrations of mothers can be hard for some folks.
I know that a few of my friends have lost
their mothers in the past years. A couple of folks
you know, have shared with us how complicated their relationships
with their mothers can be. And so we didn't want
to get on the mic and be like, Yay, look
at us, we're celebrating mothers. Like no, we recognize that

(09:31):
this time can be very difficult for people, especially when
they're feeling like either they're feeling the loss or they're feeling,
like I said, the loss. And so with that being said,
we're going to celebrate the mothers of all mothers this
week by starting our show off by giving flowers to
Miss Tisha Campbell and are Still here segment. This is
where we kick off our show by asking a question
that reminds us and our listeners that we are stronger

(09:55):
than what we think. And so this week I wanted
to start off the show as we talking about mother,
I really kind of diving into the good parts, right,
what are the things I wanted to ask the question?
Or when I was putting this together, my thought was,
is there a specific moment where your mother showed up

(10:16):
for you as a little queer kid, even though you
might not have actually been like out out, like you
weren't throwing glitter, you weren't walking into rooms and Diana
Ross was playing right, I comment out, No, Chris, I'm
sure Chris gets so tired of the moments where we'll

(10:38):
be like into a flow and then we cut into
something else. Chris is like, please, can we please? Just
can we say on tasks? But also we both have
ADHD and so that's never gonna happen. But I was
gonna say for me the moment where my mom showed
up for me. And I always think about this moment,
and if you read my book, I go into this
moment a lot in detail.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
I always think about this.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Time my mama showed up for me when a teacher
called me and Chris, you can bleep this in front
of the classroom. I always think about that moment, not
because she took off work.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
Actually she took off both of her jobs. My mom.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
If again, if you know my story, my mom used
to work from nine to three in the afternoon, and
then she would work again from eleven to seven, and so, honestly,
my mom was always tired. That was the thing I
will always say is my mom was a great mother,
but she was always tired. And I remember taking the
day off to come down to the school and it
was really literally me having to hold my mom back

(11:35):
because my mom didn't you know, I don't know how
your school was set up, Joho, but like you used
to have to go through like the front office to
get like a pass and then go to the classroom.
My mom said, fuck all that. My mom literally walked
past everybody in that front office and I was like, Mama, mama, mama, mama.
You can't, mama, mama. And I'm literally saying mama, mama
the whole time. But my mom was in bare mode.

(11:57):
She people literally I remember like watch people kind of
do like this up it's the wall, because there was
nothing that they could say to my mom to get
her to stop. And so I always think about that
moment because for me, that made me love her even more,
like I still love my mom to the moon, but
that moment, specifically, my mom went in and you know,
she she did the thing, and you know, she literally

(12:19):
was ready to fight. Yes, my mom, My Mama didn't
she didn't play. And I remember her coming up to
the school ready to fight, and you know she was.
She was just my mom was always in the mode
of like, I will whoop your ass over my kids.
And she still will. My mom still will. There have
been moments where I have to say, Mama is cool.

(12:40):
I got it, Like I'm an adult, I got it.
I don't need you to come down here and go
off on nobody, but my Mama will do that. I
think about the time she came up to the school
to fight. She well, she she didn't fight anybody, but
I remember her sitting in the car waiting for the girl.
There was a girl who used to tease me and
my brother, and my mom was sitting in the car
and she would and that girl walked up. My mom

(13:01):
got out the car. She said, are you Britney so
and so? And the girl was like, who who wants
to know? And she was like me, bitch, and my
mama went off for her and her mama came up,
and then my mom was taking her earrings off. And
as soon as that Weena started to take her door
knockers off, it was over. I was like, Mama, no,
you can't fight Brittany, and the mama like you can't
do but again it you know, my mom was, My

(13:23):
mom was. My mom was real about me and me
and Justin and so yeah and and some in that story.
What makes me so happy as I'll never forget the
time this was a couple of years ago.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
Brittany was actually.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Working at uh she was working at BJ's and she
was the person who was helping me as and I
left her a really cute tip and I put a
thank you with a little kissy on it. And I
know that bitch was hot as fish grease because to think, like,
you know what I mean, like just to know that
I'm doing all right enough to leave you a really
good tip, I know she was pissed.

Speaker 3 (13:56):
Anyway. I I grasped, what about you, queen.

Speaker 4 (14:00):
I always love your stories that'll come up, and they
just made me.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
I'm like John John Will, John Will, let you know, Hey,
you were bitch me before, and I'm gonna be.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
And I'm gonna be one right back. But I'm gonna
do it. I'm a nice, nasty girl.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
I will send you a sign copy of my book.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
How you doing? Thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
It's gonna be very bless your heart.

Speaker 3 (14:21):
Bless your heart. Yes, I'm very that very that, you know.

Speaker 5 (14:26):
You know.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Deborah, for all her wildness, was a fierce MoMA to
me as a kid.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
Sometimes sometimes I wonder if she.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Like really felt blinds by my coming out because like
I was a gay coded kid, but maybe she just
thought I was creative. Yeah, But something I think about
a lot about is how much she poured and invested
into my dreams and how and how much she allowed
me to dreams because I wanted like she didn't put.
There was every expectation on me to be someone other

(14:54):
than who I wanted to be. Her and my dad
busts memory. They never questioned my choices of study or career.
They never like I couldn't accomplish anything. And so I think,
as a little queer kid with no roadmap, even our
most like painful moments together, especially around my coming up,
because it was really hard. They never let me feel
they never let me feel like I wasn't worthy of

(15:15):
anything that I wanted to be around the world. And
so I think, right, and and and so I think
like I think, like, it's not it's not it's not
like a it's not like a big moments, like all
the little moments in which in which I could have
like I could have been, you know, like I could
have been. Like oftentimes with with with queer kids, the
one around them puts them down to their parents do too.

(15:37):
And my parents would be down in some ways, but
never around never like around that and like like even
though they started a lot with it, and it took
years for them to really, I would say, find acceptance
of me being queer, like they like my mom'st my
mom especially, she like allowed, she said, she's just like

(15:59):
that's the things like that is kind of will that
she would say that.

Speaker 4 (16:02):
But also it's funny in the hindsight, my girl you
released to me that.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
God that's crazy, but yes, great, but she like but
she like none of them ever participate in like in
like in like my bullying for being queer, right and
and in fact about being bullied for anything they were
always the first one trying to like like they're always
trying to be at the school, they trying to say something.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
I remember one time. I remember one time I was
like I.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Was being bullied by like by like like like seventh
grade drama.

Speaker 4 (16:33):
I was doing a school play.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
I felt bullied by like to the seventh grade drama
uh teachers.

Speaker 4 (16:40):
And it was like a week to just like constantly.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
It felt like like bullying a lot from them. And
I told my parents, to my parents, like of course,
my dad, like my dad's response was like I'm gonna
be some asses. And I'm like, you cannot go out
that women like you cannot go into the two women
like this.

Speaker 4 (16:56):
You could not be doing that.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
And he's like he was like I'm gonna I'm an
equal oportunia to spain girls think every bitch this way now.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
No, no, no.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
My mom was like, Jim, let's go, I'll talk you
be back up and call a day.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
And like I'm like they drum drum rehearsal. They can't.
They they came in, Uh, they came in.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
They game in and they're like, Hi, are you the
drama teachers and they're like yeah, like yeah, we're like
we should, we should, we should go somewhere else with this,
And they're like, what do you mean, like we should
go to.

Speaker 4 (17:28):
An office where it's private.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yes, because I'm about to cut you out, They're like, well,
like we like you just tell us like right here,
like like outside, like my mom was like, no, we
should go inside. And then and then I I can
see ifrom I can see if the window, like I
can see from the like I saw the I saw
the teachers from the front.

Speaker 4 (17:48):
My parents were from the back. And like my mom
when she is hot, like when like when she is hot,
she does a lot of hand.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
Movements and and her head's always wont like this. Yes,
but I saw a lot of a lot. Dad's still
stills water. This woman is her head's bofing everywhere.

Speaker 4 (18:07):
The teacher's faces are.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
Like eyes wide yes, yes, yes to them.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
But every day from that moment they're nothing but nice
to me.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
I know that's right. I know that gather them and
that's what I love about you know, not only that.
I want to make it very clear as we're talking
about mothers, I put mothers in quotations because mothers can
be anything. And we're gonna talk more about that a
little bit later in the show that mothers can literally
show up in any way, can be any person, It
could be anything, but I will say for me, mine

(18:38):
was a siss woman who wasn't mother and very much
that right. I always remember being in spaces where my
mom was protecting me, and as soon as her pitch
went up, I was like, oh shit, they in trouble.

Speaker 3 (18:50):
Like it literally I could.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
There was a certain tone my mom would get when
she would start to get pissed off about or when
she was protecting me and my brother, and I would
just know, y'all better run like it very much giving
you don't want it, don't want it again. My mom
was very much you know, she was very composed. She's
very professional, but she's also very hood and I get

(19:13):
that a little bit from her. I can there are
times where I'll get into like I'll get into being upset,
or I'll want to go off on someone, or I'll
go off about something and I can hear edwena in
my voice, and so all that to be said, I'm
just very you know, this is just a celebration of
people parents, you know, who protected their kids in a

(19:34):
moment where they could have literally just kind of let
it up, let us kind of just be in it.
But ultimately, I'm very, very grateful for the times that
you know, my mom literally just showed up and she said,
I am going to be there for you, no matter
what the situation was. So anyway, now that we got
you reminiscing about the times you saw a side of
your mama you probably didn't even know existed, my god,

(19:56):
we are going to take a break and come back
with this week's category.

Speaker 4 (20:03):
And the category is and we are back and as not.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Above, this week, we're celebrating our mothers, saying again, just
because we celebrate our brothers now does not mean that
we it was always easy.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
It was. It's the journey. It was a journey. So
I when I start by asking, I'm.

Speaker 5 (20:23):
Here here, yes, yes, I do want to ask you,
John to kick off, how did you get to a
good place with your mother knowing that it was a journey.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
What work have you personally had to do to understand
her and work with her around elements.

Speaker 4 (20:40):
Of your identity? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, I love this question because I think a lot
of people just think, you know, me and me and
my mom had a great relationship. Have always had a
great relationship, and actually, you know, me and my mom
have always been close. Me and my mom have always
been very much kind of a two way street in
the sense of I tell her things, she tells me things.
Maybe sometimes my mom would tell me more than what

(21:01):
I wanted to know. But I think me and my
mom have I think the thing that have really helped
our journey, or the thing that helped our journey so much,
was communication. My mom like me, just especially as I've
gotten older, I've had to kind of remind her that, yes,
your girl is forty, your girl has a life, your girl,
you know.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
Your girl, your girl is an adult, you know.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
And I think that there were moments where my mom
still saw me as a child, and I had to
kind of constantly remind her and like nudge her and
be like, yo, you know, part of me being your child,
part of me being an adult, is me having to
tell you, this is my life and these are the
decisions I'm gonna make. And these decisions in no way
are going to impact you. They're going to impact me,

(21:43):
and I'm very happy with them, and you know, by law,
a lot of them. My mom actually can say that
she's happy about a lot of the decisions I have
made have benefited her in a lot of ways. And
so all that to be said, I think our journey
has always been big on communication, but I also have
had to you know, there were you know, folks don't
know this, but there was a point or folks may

(22:03):
know this. There was a time where I had to
go no contact with my mom and it was very
much me having to tell her, you have to go
do what you need to do to work through some
of your stuff so that way you can better understand me.
And eventually my mom came around and said, actually, I
get it, I understand it. I want to do the work.
And so all that to be said, I think a
big part of it was me, a lot of it.

(22:25):
And this is also partly therapy too.

Speaker 4 (22:28):
You know.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
I think one of the things that therapy has helped
me understand a lot is that there is no real
handbook on what it means for a parent to be
a parent. A lot of times parents have parents, parents
have children, not parents have parents, but the mama is
the baby. I was gonna say, a lot of time
parents have children because they feel like that's what they

(22:49):
were supposed to do. That's what society told them to do.
And so when the kid comes, and the kid comes
in the package like mine, where it's wrapped in like
a rainbow bow, they they're not only they not only
don't know what to do.

Speaker 4 (23:01):
Stork doesn't drop you off in the right.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Literally, this stark was like, I don't know what this is, girl,
but you're gonna have to figure it out. But anyway, right,
like as as the stork does when they drop a
child off, sometimes the parents are like, whoa wait, I
don't know what to do with this because the stork
doesn't leave them with directions on how to raise that
child right, And so especially a rainbow child, that's what
I love to call them as rainbow children. And so

(23:27):
all that to be said, my mom did her best
and not only raising me as a black child, but
also raising me as a rainbow child. And a lot
of that was us learning together, but also me as
I got older, having to.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
Relearn how to love my mom with where.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
She was and saying, oh, she doesn't know, she doesn't
fully understand, let me walk with her and then educate her.
And then if she doesn't decide to make the right
decision based off of that education. Then we have a
real conversation of is this love or is this just
you saying oh, I'm here for you, because it's you know, contextual, right,
So all of that to be said, I think a

(24:02):
big part of it has just been me having to
really learn to love my mom with where she is,
but also being willing to be there through her part
of her journey too as a parent. So anyway, all
that to be said, I didn't want to ask you,
you know, I would love to know how your mom
showed up for you and your queerness in ways that

(24:24):
deserve to be honored out loud, because kind of in
the same way that you're asking me that question of
my mom working with my identity, I know that you
and you shared this throughout the journey of us being
on the mic, that it wasn't always easy for you either.
So how what what does that look like for you?

Speaker 4 (24:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (24:39):
Well, first, I really I really like love what you
just said about like loving her like like loving her
through it because I think as I think like as children,
and I've given this a lot of thought as like
an adult, like as a children, we like we kin'd
we expect a lot, we expect a lot of our
parents actually in some ways and like you know, like

(25:02):
like in some ways that they're they're very they're very there.
There are really things that like they're supposed to do
as parents for sure, that they like sign up for
in the job.

Speaker 4 (25:11):
But I also think like we have a lot of
expectations of them and.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
They're not always like like imputations are hard and like
you know, like we depend on them, We depend rely
and expect and I think that makes it really challenging.

Speaker 4 (25:22):
And I think, like you know.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Like like I understand now where my dad would always say,
like you know, like like like there there's a level
of obligation like there's a love obligation that he's like
love oblication I have as a parent like that, like
that it's my duty to to complete and do it
like and if I do that and you're safe, like

(25:44):
like like that's good enough and like every like everything
else is just like a bonus, right I be like
I feel like that is wow, Like like no, like
you should like you should be better than that. But
in hindsight, like I can understand I think what's coming
from right, Like to him, his sense of being a
parent was a sense of duty and like making sure

(26:06):
that that that that was fulfilled even though he didn't
fulfill it in some way, it's for sure either.

Speaker 4 (26:12):
But yeah, but and so like.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
Uh so yeah, so I'm like I I so, I
was like, I love you about like loving your parents
through it because it's it's just a lowed to work
in time. I think with my mom, every drag performance
I had, she was always there supporting me. She let
me borrow her clothes and jewelry. She joined p FLAG
when I made her do it. She attends every every

(26:37):
a Q plus event I and by her two with
me she attends. She sometimes she makes me watch queer
films with her, even.

Speaker 4 (26:45):
If I fe uncomfortable about it. Every Where I've.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Gotten for being queer, she's been there to witness. Or
and my aunt I have always been there to witness. Yeah,
and my mom my mama used to watch posts together
every week, And I feel like you should have brought
Q lens like like like like like Post has some
pretty like pretty like heavy themes, heavy themes, and she
like like she like she like posed on snight like

(27:09):
we're gonna watch it on time, We're gonna watch it.
So I really really appreciate that, like like there this moment.

Speaker 4 (27:16):
There's a moments where I'm like, oh, actually.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Like maybe it's like it's like whenever we whenever we
have a bump of the road, I'm like, you, how
are you about this? You're so horrible all these things,
And then I remember, like she's actually has done I'm
sure she's gone away beyond her comfort zone as a
parent sometimes like I know, I know I'm not easy
kid to raise, like push back a lot, I got
a lot of like.

Speaker 4 (27:38):
A lot of thoughts, a lot of feelings, and I
you know, and like in some ways says I'm.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Who she raised me to be, for sure, But I
also think right like like there's a moment in which
like you like you realize, like you realize you really can't,
like you can't control what your kid does or who
they are.

Speaker 4 (27:53):
And you kind and you have to roll with it.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Ands where I definitely have not getten he enough credit
to roll with it. And so this moment where I'm like,
I'm like I might call her out to this, like girl,
you like you really you really were? I think she
always wonders. She always like goes back into like like
was I a pair or not. And I think there
are times which I was like no, and then and
then there are a lot of times in which I'm like yeah,
like like like like maybe you weren't like the but

(28:19):
like the best person sometimes like as a parent, like
you did you did what you need you did what
need to be done first of all, right, right, like
and she like and she did do a lot of
bonuses and that was really really special. And so it
does not allowed how much she how much she's allowed
herself to shift and change, right Like.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
I also think like it took.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
A long time for her to understand like my blackness
and what it meant to be. Yeah, my like and
how many blackness and quinness intersect, right, so you know,
so like watching pos really shifted how she viewed like
how she understood blackness and quinness together, yeah, you know,
and how she how she maybe like stands up more
or for for things like that that the black supposed

(29:03):
to color. I'm in queer people, So yeah, I think
that deserves it out loud. I I love her. I
love her as much as I like I'm likeugh, girl,
I love her.

Speaker 4 (29:13):
I think I have a follow up question for you.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
Yeah, I'm curious, just like like knowing knowing that our
moms had to unlearned some things for to be better.
How can queer can celebrate their mothers who had also
to learn the harmful how to unlearn harmful beliefs.

Speaker 4 (29:31):
In order to love their children more.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah, I as you were talking, I was thinking about this.
I think the the to answer that question. The only
real response I always or I ever really give is grace.
You have to be willing to give your pair as much.
So I say it this way if your parent is
trying to love you, because I think that there's a
difference between a parent saying I can't accept this, we

(29:53):
don't have a relationship at all anymore, and you know
they check the deuce, right. But if your parents says
this is hard for me, but I still love you
and I'm going to do what I need to do
to still be your parent, I think that's a very
different conversation. And so I think as much as your
parent is trying to figure out how to unlearn all
of the things that they were told or they were
taught about your identity and who you are, and they're

(30:15):
doing the work, and again they may step on your toe.
They may say something out of pocket, they may say
something that doesn't jail well with you, or you know,
I mean, I'll share this on the you know, the mic.
And this may be too much, but I remember my
mom having a moment where she was very much like well,
basically in so many words, she was just saying, I'm
afraid of you catching HIV. And I was like, okay, Mom,

(30:36):
I understand that. However, let's have a conversation about that stigma.
Let's have a conversation about where that comes from and
where it starts.

Speaker 4 (30:45):
Right.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
And so as much as it irritated me that that
my mom would say that, right, the reality was I
had to meet her where she was at.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
My mom.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
You know, my mom's not in a queer community. My
mom's not going up with p flag every week, right.
My mom doesn't know that some of these things can
be very problematic. And so I had to step back
and say, don't get mad at mom. You have to
understand where mom is now. You have to be willing
as much as she's willing to say this to you,
because she loves and cares about you. You have to

(31:14):
love and care for her to talk her through, Like, now,
wait a second, Mom, just because I'm queer doesn't mean
that I'm out fucking every time Dick and Harry, right,
or if Harry Dick. But it all that to be
said like that. But but the thing is, like I
have to be I have to be willing to give
my mom that grace. And so I think that's a

(31:35):
big part of it is really understanding that you know,
our parents, especially too, like our parents are boomers. You know,
our parents grew up in a very in the words
of tire Banks, they grew up in a specific time.
It was a very specific time. They grew up in
a specific time and sometimes and a big part of
that specific time was they didn't have the they didn't

(31:57):
have the interwebs, they didn't have television shows, they didn't
have quote unquote influencers, they didn't have you know, the
schools weren't even engaging that. There were no books, There
were no books that were talking openly or as open.
They were there, but you know you had to go
look for them, right, it wasn't. The times truly were different.
And so now being in twenty twenty six, I have

(32:20):
to lovingly tell my mom, ooh mom, that's a problem.
That's problematic, you can't say that or Okay, Mom, let's
talk about this thing that you said or that you're
thinking about. But again, you do it with love, and
it can be very difficult. And it also feels like, well,
why do I always have to do the labor? Yeah,
you may have to do the labor, but also your
parents raised you right, And so I think about that

(32:40):
a lot my mom. There were a lot of things
I'm sure my mom didn't want to do as she
was raising me and my brother, and I have to
turn around and sometimes say, sometimes you know, the baby
has to raise the mama. And I think in a
lot of ways that's been the relationship and that's what's
kept me in my mom's relationship. Well, is this idea
that she was never above taught as much as I

(33:01):
was never above you know, being able to being quote
unquote better, you know what I mean, Like it just
it just there were times where I could just tell
my mom was like, well teach me if you if
you you know, you know what I mean, Like I
don't know, I I yeah, I may have said that thing,
and I am so sorry I said it.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
And that's the thing too that I think has also
helped is you know, Like I said, my mom has
always been My mom has never been above above reproach right,
even when she was being difficult.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
And I did have there have been moments where I
have had to use some choice words with her. I
think my mom the thing that my mom I always
loved about her was that she was never above being
able to say, oops, I fucked up, I messed up there,
let me, let me do better next time, and she
does right. So I think that's the thing. I think
a big part of that has been me really just saying,

(33:50):
you know, as much as my mom is trying to
understand me and love me with where I am and
who loved me with who I am, I have to
do the same for her, even with the all of
her quirks, you know, even with all of the times
where I really want to scream and sometimes shake her,
you know, but I oftentimes to just give her a
hook and give her kiss on the cheek.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
But yeah, what about you love, I used to.

Speaker 4 (34:13):
Kiss some of the cheek when I want shakers.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
So real, Mama, Yeah, yeah, Mama.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
Please. Literally I'm sometimes like mom, please, yeah, I'm not.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
Yes, I think I think like I.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Mean, like when it comes the idea of how to
like work for them unlearned. Like I think it's the
point of the expectations I was saying earlier, like we
just have a lot of expectations for what they need
to do. And I think, like I'm always curious how
it changes now, right, like the kids these days, how
how the parents who like the parents and they like
like with the parents in some ways, right, like yeah,

(34:51):
and I do wonder what's different.

Speaker 4 (34:53):
Or a change in that way. But I like the
like the mouths of baby.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Like like for millennials and for like some of the
early Gen Z people like they they're they're just there
was like there wasn't like there wasn't the roadmap, there
wasn't the knowledge. There wasn't like the information as readily
accessible of how to parents are queer kid. And so
I think, right and like and at that point in time,

(35:20):
culture a very specific understanding or very specific I mean
like like like to be really quite on us, right,
like our parents were like we're alive during the AIDS
crisis and yea, all their information right through that is
like like the main invasion they're getting is is HIV
AIDS how and and how that, how that how that

(35:43):
impacts uh gay men, you know what?

Speaker 4 (35:45):
Not very much thought.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
About that, Yeah, not like not very much information about
queer women, you know, not much like about trans folks
and stuff that they are quote unquote just drag queens
and right and like and so like like right, like
like like our parents lived through a time where then
all the admission they're getting like informed their belistensative. Yeah,

(36:07):
because there was no there was like no other there's
hardly any other opportunities to have other other information, right,
Like I think about like my mom, my mom growing up,
she had like she had several she had several like
like like gay male friends, and she had witnessed the impact.

Speaker 4 (36:23):
Of HIV right and AIDS in some people. Right, But
like I'm sure you're never.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Thinking, like you're not thinking this is not this would happen,
this would have this would be my child in the future, right,
Like she's in her twenties and early thirties, so she's
not thinking about that, and then she has a kid,
and then her kid comes out and she's like, oh
my god, that my ownxperence has been this thing, and
like I've only seen this thing. I don't I don't
know like what this means them, right and so and
like I mean, like.

Speaker 4 (36:52):
I know, listen in this moment, I'm like what I'm
saying this.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
I know we got a lot of feelings about about
about Ryan Murphy, but like at the end of the day,
he made some pivotal pivotal TV for Courtney's like like
like like like without Glee, my life would be different.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
Without Pose, my life would be different.

Speaker 6 (37:17):
Like like like like they like those two shows, particularly
at those stages in my life, like really helped my
mom understand much more about the same Glee between Curt
and his dad in the first season, right and his
dad who's just like very macho manly man and like
and like like like the show a great job in
demonstrating like you had this fem this more fem boy

(37:40):
and he's like really made me dad and like the
closest they had and that this was is that just
wasn't a often depicted relationship and like that like that
had my mom had my mom watched that to unlearn right,
there was a there is an episode where a kid
attempted self harm and and like I watched out my
mom and start crying because that's how I had felt

(38:01):
and that's what I had done, right, right, so you know,
and so I think like like celebration, like like celebration
looks like celebration, Like it looks like like understand like
something want to learn things like understanding that their proximity
to this is so different than yours is and sort
offer than ours.

Speaker 4 (38:21):
Is, and they like in like in like we have
to give that we have to.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
I should also want to be clear of it was
like that we have to also not we have to
because I just wanted to to really recognize that these
are two parents for us, right, who who said, we
don't know what the fuck we're doing and we're trying
to learn, right, and there are some parents who absolutely
will like there are some parents who absolutely are harmful,
and like if your parents, your mother right is harmful,

(38:49):
do not do not try and waste your time trying
to teach or something right that she will not learn,
Like I want to be clear like I'm not because
it's not I want to do like something like kumbaya, right,
Like I know my mom as hard as she struggled,
like what like wasn't like I know that she was
invested in interested in understanding more about me and so right,

(39:09):
so she had like that's what she had the desire
to do. So, and so I knew that it was
hard to be worth it with her to do and
not every parent is gonna be worth it.

Speaker 4 (39:19):
So do you, like, do not kill yourself to do it?

Speaker 2 (39:21):
Right? Right? I would say, but I think who So'm
I'm ranting a lot, just subring something her beliefs better,
like celebrate that they that they like allow themselves to
challenge themselves after thirty plus years of.

Speaker 4 (39:38):
Of like what they've been told. That is not easy
to do.

Speaker 2 (39:41):
I'm seeing right now, I'm like, ooh, I'm three years
old and I'm having to learn believes that I didn't
think I had.

Speaker 4 (39:45):
I'm like, oh, I need to learn this and that
is not I'm learning. It's not easy. It's messy and
it's hard. It's painful. It is it is. And so yeah,
they have long rant for that.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
No, I think it's a long valuable rant.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
I think someone out there will probably listen to this
and say, I need I mean, I think that's really
what this conversation is and what I was hoping for
when I when I initially kind of pitched it you know.
A couple of weeks ago, I said, I think I
wanted this conversation, and we're totally off the show for
at this point, but I really pitched this conversation because

(40:20):
I said, I think there's so many there, There's so
many conversations about and and rightfully so, there are a
lot of times that I've been in or I've been
listening in to podcasts or a television show or whatever
where people have just outrightly said, my mom is is
a terror. She's awful, right, and we have to sometimes
live with that. But I think that for us in

(40:42):
this in this conversation, right and for many of our
listeners who are queer, who may have a tough conversation,
you know, not conversation, they have a tough relationship with
their parents, specifically their mothers or their mother figures. I
think that there needs to be a piece of let's
also give them the grace and the space to know,

(41:04):
like you said, they did not grow up with kind
of the same opportunities that we had. Right, there was
no Glee in the sixties, there was no glee in
the seventies, and also there was no glee during the
Aide crisis. Yes, there were shows you know that were
like kind of they were kind of hinting at the
idea that people were different, but they didn't have the

(41:25):
quality of information that we have now about how to
and so like that's why I said, I think there's
a vast difference in a parent like your mother saying
I want to sit down and watch the show with
you and understand it, versus a parent saying I'm Christian
or I'm this religion and I want nothing to do
with your life or your you know, your identity, And
I think we have to give credit where credit is due.
I did want to go back to this question real quick,

(41:46):
and then we'll probably have to close out the segment.
I was going to say, I wanted to ask you
and thinking about just celebrating Deborah celebrating ATWENA, I want
to ask, like, how did your mother create space for
your joy and not just survival? And I wanted to
ask that question because I think you're a great like

(42:07):
again some people, So it's interesting because some shows you
can just tell where the podcasters are just friends on
the air. I am a like I feel like in
this case, I feel like I'm one of your really
good I'm one of your I would say, core friends.
And I can tell from the stories thanks love, from
the stuff off the mic that we talk about, and

(42:29):
the stuff we go back and forth with each other
about when we go out to dinner, when we hang out,
the things that we talk about. In terms of family
and knowing your family the way I know your family,
I will say, I can tell your mom has always
done her best to create joy for you, and the
same thing for my mom when my mom didn't have it.
There were moments that I mean, there was a time,
I'll tell you this, there was a time where my

(42:49):
mom got me and my brother a Sega Genesis and
I still to this day don't know how she got
the money to do it, but that was like she
knew me and my brother really wanted the Sega Genesis
and she got one for us and all that, like,
especially at a time where I knew my mom didn't
have the money for it, and like stuff like that.
Like that, those were the moments where I can tell
my mom really wanted me to be happy. And the

(43:11):
same thing now, like you know, coming to work, being
coming home from work, being really tired, changing and then
saying let's go you have this school thing to go to,
I want to make sure that I'm there for it,
you know. Or oh, you know my mom doing you know, mother,
was it the teacher conferences? Because my mom hated teacher conferences.

(43:32):
Oh she could not stand them, but she would still go,
you know. And so like those are the moments, you know,
there are little times in my life where I go,
I can I know my mom was struggling, she was
going through her own stuff, but she still showed up
for me. So I would love to know how Deborah
did that for you, you.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
Know, I think my mom.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
I think my mom loved all that stuff, like she
was always eager to do it. I think she also
her birth journey was not easy. She had several miscarriages,
and like she's really pretty open about this, Like she
was told she would be able to have kids, and
it was a big surprise that she was pregnant with me.
And so I think she uses like her miracle baby,

(44:12):
which is which is really sweet and sometimes it was
a lot of pressure girl, mom, Mama hearing this, I
love it so much, But it's a lot of pressure
to be a miracle baby girl. But you know, but
like like like I think like she was always eager
and ready to do all the things like I think.
I think she like she really wanted to have the
relationship of like us being mother and child but also

(44:35):
friends to.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
You and I and and and I and I I
do think we are I think there are done so much.
We disagree often about things.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
But I think like again, but she's she's just she's
always invested in me in my dreams, and she's.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
Always like, like.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
The greatest gift I and I've told her this time
my time and time over and other people, this like
the risk gift that she gives me is a gift
of believing in myself.

Speaker 4 (45:06):
And I think right.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Like like like like like beyond the things that she's
done to give me joy, right she's giving me, she's
given me.

Speaker 4 (45:18):
She's given me the tool to create joy for myself.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
And that is like really important And that is something
that I have so much gratitude for is that she
didn't she didn't make me dependent on other people for joy.
She's showed me that people can show up for you
and bring joy, right her job as a parent. But
the but like she also like taught me the joys

(45:45):
inside of me, you know, I have.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
This I'm not loving but because you know that, I
you know I'm crazy.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
And so when you said the joy inside of me.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
There's all these songs that keep hearing, so I keep
you break me, but I need a baker as you're talking.
But then I also hear Whitney Houston's every time you.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
Keep saying stuff, I keep hearing different songs.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
When you were like the joy inside of me, I
was like I decided.

Speaker 4 (46:18):
Long ago never to walking in.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
It was like I literally literally I mean like very much,
yes yeah, but tu like like like I was raising
why I was raised.

Speaker 4 (46:31):
Six days yes, yes, yes, yes, sorry.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
When I was thinking about like, I was definitely I
was definitely thinking of like break my Soul from Beyonce,
like when right when she I think the lyric is
like like like all say it's it's like like all
the love is already inside of me or something something
like that. Like that's very much what I very much
what I was taught to feel.

Speaker 4 (46:53):
Bitch, I hate you. I was. I had a very
like thing to say at the very end to this,
and it's lost now. I'm sorry. I just had to
bring up I had.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
To say it. Every time you can every literally every.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
Lock, and you kept heard a song and you pulled
the bit back. I am so sorry.

Speaker 4 (47:13):
I love it. The tears were welling up and now
they are gone.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
It was what was I just gonna say? If I
was gonna say damn, but no, damn.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off.
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
I'm so because because it's like I I I appreciate
you hearing song because I also think I hear in
song often for certain things. Yes, yeah, it's like like
very like, very very much on brand from I would.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Sit here rocket because I'm thinking about all the wonderful
things just saying, but also how all of them are songs.
But no, I I love you, know, I just love
I think also to watching you, I think that is
bringing bringing it back and also putting a beautiful bowl
on this, this conversation, and I want to engage it
a little bit.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
More as time goes by.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
Right, our relationships with our parents, and we've talked about
them in so many different ways, but I think this conversation,
really the bottom line is hearing you talk about your
relationship with your mom, it really reminds me of this
idea of like your mom instilled so much joy and
so much resilience in you. And I hate using the

(48:23):
word resilians. You all know that about me, but I
feel like to a degree, your mom. Seeing your mom
love you the way that she loved you, reminded me
that my mom the way that she loved me. No
matter what was happening, she always reminded me, your tough, right,
you got this. You know, can't nobody beat you, can't nobody.

Speaker 4 (48:44):
You know.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
It was very much. My mom always reminded me that
I was basically just a badass. And I think your
mom did the same thing for you. And I think
that's the reason why we're still here. I think there's
a lot of things that have happened to us that
could have ultimately really taken us out or made us
give up or quit. And every time we even in
the moments where we do sit down in a corner

(49:05):
and we're crying, we still get back up and we go, Okay,
we're going to go a little bit harder, or we're
going to work a little bit harder, or we're going
to we're going to reset. We're going to reset and
do this this way. And I think all of that
comes from the energy and what our parents, and I
say parents meaning my mom, what my mom did for me,
and I'm thinking what your mom did for you, and

(49:26):
even you know, sprinkles of gym too. So all that
to be said, I just I'm very much just. I'm
grateful for our parents. I'm grateful for the mothers, and
not just like I said, not just the sis head mothers, right,
all of the mothers, the mothers. You know, I'm grateful
I have mothers across the board. You know, even though

(49:47):
my mom is my mom, and I will always love
my mom the way I love my mom.

Speaker 4 (49:51):
You know.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
I think about my friend Lives, who I call mom
in a lot of different ways. My friend Lives, she
shows up for me as a mother in a lot
of different ways. I think about you know, Juanita growing up, Juanita.
I used to work with her, but she was very
motherly to me when I was in college, you know there,
and I still see Wanita around and I love Waneda.
Like there are all of these different people who play

(50:12):
different roles in different ways and their friends and they
also show up for you and motherly ways. And so
I just wanted to shout them out. But yeah, I'm
just that's where I am. But I love this. I
love this conversation so much.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
I love us so so much. And family, Now that
we have y'allred to impack some conversations with your therapist
or your bestie is about your mama's that's quick. We
are to another break and come back with more fun
about mothers.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
Ooh girl, what's happened? All right, y'all?

Speaker 1 (50:48):
So this week I wanted to stay in the mother lane,
but also wanted to do something fun. And so last
year I did a post on Instagram that got subtraction
and it was about black mothers of TV that I
felt safe coming out to. And so I wanted to
kind of take that back and and I kind of
flipp it a little bit.

Speaker 3 (51:09):
What miss Eliot say is your flip?

Speaker 1 (51:13):
I wanted to kind of I wanted to flip it
and reverse it, but I wanted to say, since this
week we are celebrating mothers around the world, but also
please know again that mothers can mean folks who are
not traditional lisis Uh. I wanted to ask you if
you had to replace your mother with a TV mother,

(51:33):
who would you want to take the role, and so
I I know you you said in our notes that
I took yours.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
So I'm really really socked, I.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Said, bitch, but also also like good like good good
like They're great, They're great.

Speaker 4 (51:45):
Choices, They're great.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Yeah, greag mothers, I I said to myself as I
was putting this together. It was for me a toss
up between Bianca from Poe's and Lisa Landry from Sisters
Cislanka Blanca Sorry. Why did I say Bianca, I don't know,
probably becice I'm tired and it's early Blanca from Poe Sorry,
and Lisa Landry from Sister Sister for me, so, I

(52:11):
know both of them were a little messy, and they
also kind of didn't really seem like they knew how
to be a mother. But they were just good mothers,
like they under they understood what was going on around them.
They showed up when they needed to show up. They
did we needed to be done. Now. I don't know
about Lisa moving into that house with that man and

(52:31):
not really knowing him. I understand why she ran. She
her child go somewhere else, right, but still she didn't
really know him. But anyway, choices right, she made choices,
but she's.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
Still a good mother. She still was a really good mother.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
And I think for me, I think it was the
way she loved to protect it, the way her children
like both of them, Blanca and Lisa. They were just
very protective mothers and always a little funny too. I
think we need funny. I think my mom was. My
mom is still very much a comedian. I still have
to be like mom, that is not funny. But my
mom will find the funny in a really messed up situation,

(53:09):
and so I I I definitely think Lisa Landry is
very much that she's gonna laugh. She's gonna make a
joke out of something.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
You know.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Blanca is gonna even though she ain't supposed to. She's
still she's still a good just really good mothers.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
What about you, Blanco for she has noted for some
class somewhere and be like.

Speaker 4 (53:27):
This is for you, bitch.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
You're like, okay, girl, Yes, I live my life. She
wanted more, she's a pusher. Yeah, she wants more.

Speaker 4 (53:39):
I mean, I do been telling you took the good ones.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
But I also would say I'm gonna throw I'm gonna
throw it to first of all, treaty proud from proud family.

Speaker 4 (53:47):
I got feel like I would say to come out
to her.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
She was the she was like like like like like
the type the type of girl, the type of mom
like if you came out, she was like, ooh, girl,
I canna say go to you and not just like
my toy right, yes, yes, true. I like she made
I like she would be shed. She be mom who
like like who might go too far? Like like girl
go to far in the sense in the sense that

(54:09):
she's like, ooh girl, clock it and you're like, mom,
mom is doing the putinam you can see that girl?

Speaker 4 (54:15):
It's okay, Yeah, so treat family.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
D Mitchell by played by the Compo Ralph in Moisha.

Speaker 4 (54:22):
But she gives me conservative okay, so you know what
I can I can see that. I don't know I
can see that and know what.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
You know what when I when I wrote the answer,
I didn't really understand the question right, like like like
I thought I was just like keep in jaim manaby when.

Speaker 3 (54:50):
You saw how she did.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Oh, girl and sister act okay, but that's but that's.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
What I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
Mosha is the chop chat way and way and shot way.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
Yeah. Yah, yes, the folks who are listening. I want
y'all to write.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
Clip this, Chris, clip this moment, Chris, clip this moment. Yes,
we can put it on and ask ask the listeners.
My last one would be Athena Grant and nine one
one yea with Angels.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
I agree with that.

Speaker 4 (55:17):
You know for a fact, she.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Absolutely would be like, I'll give a fuck if you yes.
I like that is like she was, that's gonna be.
Just don't just don't do it legally, just like, just
just don't just don't do the part girl, Like, that's
all I don't want to have.

Speaker 4 (55:33):
Okay, I can't my own child. That will look bad.
May she have a taser on you in case someone
tries to like mess you up? Period?

Speaker 1 (55:40):
Yeah, definitely. Athena is definitely my girl in my hand.
But I also love for sure, I just love her
in general. I love Angela Bassett just in general.

Speaker 4 (55:48):
Basset.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Like if I if we ever get to meet angel Bassett,
I I honestly I would be I would be like
I did. Yeah, if we ever met angel Bassett, I
would just be into your whole time. Yeah, it's very much.
Let's aid to those stars and on the show The
Stars Yeah, let's.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
See what wouldn't you die? Wouldn't you just die?

Speaker 4 (56:10):
I literally like I want to say those words because
you know, I'm I'm not trying to I'm not trying
to manifest.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
That, but you know, well, also I would go I
would go to another dimension.

Speaker 4 (56:21):
For yes, I would be transported somewhere else.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
Fail I'm thinking the Pooh when his soul flows out
of him.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
That's literally what my soul would literally just be rotating
out of that meme.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
That's like that meme of like like this like this girl.
She's like like the means of this girl. She's she's
like this and listening hit by a ray of rainbow.
Yes uh and the like like like the meme is
was like when you're black and your queered black Black
History Month or Pride or something.

Speaker 4 (56:52):
It's just so bunny.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Anyways, girls, anyways, girls, And then we have y'all brows
in the net for your favorite mothers and your favorite
mama that you can come out to.

Speaker 4 (57:02):
Yes, well I'll take one more.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
We we can come up with our yes, ma'am, no
man Pam's for the week, Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
Oh no man Pam.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
All right, y'all, So this week, mine are literally like
I say this every week, but this week mine are
super duper quick. Well, actually, I don't know if my
no Man Pam is going to be quick, but I'm
gonna say this, so my yes ma'am this week for
those of you who don't know, who are new to
the show and don't know what our yes ma'am and
are no Man Pam says, this is where we either
give people flowers or we whack them with them. And
for this week, my yes ma'am, I definitely just wanted

(57:36):
to say, I, Giselle, I know what you're doing.

Speaker 4 (57:39):
I see what you're doing.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
The purple is not lost on me, the little clips,
the little fact that you are wearing the same sunglasses
that Prince was wearing in one of his photos. There
are a lot of things that people are correlating to
this Act three, and from what I know, people are
called her rock era. I genuinely think it is going

(58:03):
to be and the entire album is probably going to
be a very big old to Prince, specifically because it's
also and again here here I go doing exactly what
the Behave does. Considering that it has been ten years
since Prince has been gone and then ultimately at the
same time too, Lemonade came out, and there was a
part in Lemonade where she did kind of a whole

(58:24):
kind of a lot of people don't know, but I
guess don't hurt yourself. It's kind of an ode to
Prince and the rockness of Prince. So off that to
be said, I feel like I know what she's doing
and I'm ready for it. So I just I definitely, definitely,
definitely love I love rock Beyonce, and I definitely cannot

(58:47):
wait to get that in my veins. On the other
side of that, I also want to say, when you're
talking about Rock, Dirty Diana, Michael Jackson, the movie, always,
I've been telling people, if you are a crit you're
gonna hate it. If you are a fan, you're gonna
love it. And so that is literally where I've been
where I've been living. I've been living right in that

(59:08):
divide because I'm both. And I know that there are
a lot of people who have mixed feelings about Michael
Jackson and his legacy and the and I even wrote
an article about it. I know that there are a
lot especially with you know, the documentary that came out
a couple of years about him and the relationships he
had with people around him. All of that to say,

(59:29):
it's very complicated. But what I will say is that
I really appreciate the way that this film has unified people.
Because for a minute, we were all kind of like,
oh my god, where Americans? And it's awful and everything
feels so hard and so awful, And then the movie
came out, and my entire timeline is just love. Like
it's people loving on Michael. It's people loving on people

(59:50):
who are loving Michael. Seeing the people clap and be
happy inside the theater. It's just it's just a really
good time to what's sort of I'm looking for. It's
not a good time to be an American, but it's
very much a good time to see the love that
people have for the movie Michael.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
Have you seen it yet, y'all?

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
I have not, after after you know, you told me
I have to see it. Yes, I did not see it. Okay, well, yeah,
we plan to see it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
You have a week you have the weekend.

Speaker 4 (01:00:20):
Thank you again, and I'll be watching two movies this weekend.
I got you.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
What else? Is there something else I should be watching?

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Yeah, you know, yeah, so let's let's well, let's well, yes,
but I was going to say I did enjoy. I
still enjoy the first one I actually want to do,
I was I was saying, I don't know how I'm
going to find time to do it because I have
a lot going on this summer. But I was going
to say I wanted to redo for my fortieth The

(01:00:49):
dream was to redo the sequence when she's walking across
the New York streets and her looks keep changing. That
was one of the things I wanted to do for myself.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
I wanted to do like four or five different looks
where I'm running around.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
That's a key, right, it's the key that's waity next
in person, next to the studio thing. We should do
that afterwards. Yes, yeah, bringing some looks that would be fun.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
I run it and I want the same song and everything, Like,
I genuinely wanted to do that and and just have
it to where I'm like running around and I mean,
truth be told, you can even do it in San Francisco,
I feel like you or even l A you.

Speaker 4 (01:01:28):
Can do it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
It can be done in a lot of different cities.
But I but the idea would be every time I'm
doing something change.

Speaker 4 (01:01:36):
You have to like downtown.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Yeah, definitely got some city.

Speaker 4 (01:01:40):
Yeah, you have some metro Uh huh, definitely metro.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Yeah, getting on and off the the metro link and
all that. But all that to be said, that was
so yes, But I will say I just feel like
Devils product, it took too long, and it's hard for
me to believe that mother, who was in the role
of like CEO or whatever she was or editor, is
still in that role twenty years later.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
Like I feel like she should be retired already.

Speaker 4 (01:02:06):
I mean, but I mean she she's like an Wintor.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
I mean it's based off an win Well, well know, allegedly,
but like she was in that for how long too?

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
Yeah, I guess I don't know. This is just something
there's a disconnect for me with this film. I don't
know what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
She says in the first film, there's only one Edran
Chief a fruntway okay.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Yeah, And I'm excited for the people who are excited
about it. It's just something for me is a little
it does it's not resonating joy for me the way
it's And maybe it's.

Speaker 4 (01:02:35):
In this answer.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
I don't know, y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Anyway, past that, I said, this is not gonna be long,
and look at me. I'm over here spending a lot
of time talking about nothing. All that to be said.
My nomn PAM this week is that stupid shooting that
happened at and I say shooting with quotations that happened
at the Correspondence Center. Chris, you knew I was gonna
say something about this, and that's exactly what I'm about
to do. Is it's a hunk of I. You need

(01:03:02):
a ballroom because you want to feel safe. But my
question is what about those kids in the classroom who
don't get to feel safe? What about the other people
in this country who don't feel safe? Like it just
it's it's so I think for me, yeah, I may
have been scary, even if even if it was.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
Even if it was a skit.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Yes, it's scary because again we don't we don't really
know what the full story is around it. And I
actually know people who were in the room at the
time when it happens, like there are some folks that
I follow, and so seeing them post it in real
time is actually really scary. But my thing becomes for
you to turn around and make it about you and say, oh,
this this thing happened, and now I need a ballroom

(01:03:46):
because I want to feel safe when nobody else in
this country feels safe. It's the exact reason why I
cannot wait for that day. And I'm not gonna say
what day it is, but y'all know, because like you,
this person, that man I refuse to say his name,
that man is just every when you say selfish, his

(01:04:07):
face should be literally next to the word in the dictionary,
because how like it just it. Yeah, it pisses me off,
and I could go off for hours about it, but
I just think it's trash and it doesn't make sense.
And I literally still to this day say fuck anybody
who voted for him, anybody who even even if he
did steal the election, okay, but for anyone else who

(01:04:28):
gave him the motion and the energy to be able
to steal the election, fuck you, because we are in
this situation because of you, and I'll never forgive anyone
who did for a second, especially for a second time.
It just ugh, it really pisses me off. And yeah,
what about you? What are your yes, maam's and no
man's for this week?

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Well, may spam dam is I'm doing gonna rewatch a
post currently Okay, and girl, this show really fucking ate,
Like this show really fucking ate, Like I really like,
I'm i we we just finished season two, we're about
watched season three, and like, I'm like the show had
some harror moments for some harm moments, and some moments

(01:05:10):
I'm like, this could have been so much different and better,
especially with how they did Candy and judge Ross's character,
and now they didn't judge Ross in general, but like
the show really like so much of the show really
it's just really fucking good, like really fucking good, like
like it's it's good TV, it's good drama, it's good hope,

(01:05:31):
it's good belief.

Speaker 4 (01:05:32):
Like there's so much that was good.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
Right. I love how they like, I love how they wrote,
like wrote Damon off for sure. I feel like like
some like some of the like the some. There's some
mechanics of the show that I'm like this she feels
low forced and weird. Yeah, you know, And and I
love that they had so many icons of ballroom in there,
and I wish they had maybe bigger parts in the
in the show too.

Speaker 4 (01:05:53):
But yeah, this show is just it's fucking good.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
Like I'm like, wow, this show eight still eats Today
Live Left love it so much. I mean, I'm gonna
I'm gonna savor this this last season watch my Nomam
pam is.

Speaker 4 (01:06:07):
I just realized, like.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
People got so many things to say for rage bait,
and I'm like, I hold that, yes, everyone should be
able to share what they want to say in the world.
And I also hold like you made also maybe don't
have to, like you just don't have to, like not

(01:06:34):
everything actually needs everyone's thought, Like there are so many
things that I'm like, like right, like like this is
this moment, there's a moment in which I'm like, oh,
I should like make a thing about this because it
could go viral, right right, Like I actually I actually don't.
I actually don't need to go viral for that, Like
I'm viral the a viral for something that I like
really really want to be viral for it, right and
not just like say and it's like pop up and
saying ship like I.

Speaker 4 (01:06:56):
Don't know, like like I think that there's like a
level of.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
Which like I want like I want like I want
to be impeccable with my word and I just don't
think people do that or don't want to do that,
and so you know, they like everyone wants to be
a critic, and I'm like, y'all can like for example,
for example, like call On, you put out a new
album and like and like we all thoughts, but people

(01:07:21):
are like she on the album and I'm like, girl,
can you like like like like can you let her
art be her art? Like she put out they put
out their art the way they want to, like just
like let them have there art right right, you know, like.

Speaker 4 (01:07:36):
Don't don't get wrong, like like yes, everyone can critique
for sure, and no one's above critique. I'm not saying.
I'm not saying.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
I'm not saying don't critique at all, like but like,
but like some of the critiques, I'm like, y'all like, respectfully,
you try making an album like it just like you
do the thing like I just I think I I
often refrain sometimes from saying things. I'm refrain from waiting
on things like I know I would never do or
can never do, like it just it just feels it

(01:08:03):
just feels like different and not something people can't have
an opinion about it, for sure. I'm don't have opinions
about anything, but I also think like, like like putting
yourself in the shoots is important as well too, So
I'm just like, I mean, that's not it's just about
her and the album. It's just more about like I've
been seeing a lot of things happen and I'm like, oh,
people have a lot be fowing.

Speaker 4 (01:08:22):
A lot of things that I'm like, baby girl, you
would never.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Do it yourself, So like relax, yeah, and that and
like that may be aper opinion and I can own
that and totally be fine with that. I also just
think like like like I really do maintain the idea
of like I want I want someone who's who's who's
mindful of what they say and what they put out
in the world, and like don't sensement energy like tearing

(01:08:46):
things down without like understanding swimming full leads right right, Yeah, no,
Noman pam to all that.

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
Yeah, I think you you bring up something.

Speaker 4 (01:08:55):
Really.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
I mean, everyone's a critic and a lot of folks
have not done the work per se.

Speaker 3 (01:09:01):
I will say that I've.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
I've been That's why I like when I there are
moments where I want to go in on something and
then I'll look and I'll go, well, you know, I
could say I could talk a lot of shit about
this show, but I ain't never sold a show, so.

Speaker 3 (01:09:14):
Let me just be quiet.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
You know, I ain't never I ain't never wrote a
movie and had a movie sale, and so who am
I to say that this is a terrible movie. That's
what I was saying, Like even back to the Devil
Worlds Proud, I'm not saying it's gonna not gonna be
a good film. I'm just saying for me personally, like
the the energy is not there. Because I want to
I want to know and I probably need I would
love to know what the what not biography, what's the

(01:09:37):
worst synopsis that's this? I would love to know what
the synopsis is going to be behind the film, and
then maybe I'll probably get excited about going to see it.
So anyway, I've seen the trailer and I still don't
really know what the film is going to be about.
So anyway, all that to be said, yes, you are correct. Please,
you know, we need more people to be less hypercritical,
and we also just need less voices, so many voices everywhere,

(01:10:01):
my god. But anyway, let's wrap this shit up. Send
us your thoughts, feedback and email to blackfatfempot at gmail
dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
You can also send us your thoughts for your.

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
Social media by interacting with our post on the instagrams
own the threads by using the handle at Blackfetfempod And
like we said, chat, we would love for you to
chime in if there's something this week that you know
speaks to you. So say something, see something, say something.
We would love to hear from you. Queen Jo ho work.
Can the dolls find you this week?

Speaker 4 (01:10:29):
Ah my love?

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
You can find me at Jojo Jane's across all socials
motherside Joe Jales dot com. If not there, you will
find me hiding because hm, real, I'm just tired. I'm
just tired.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
Yeah, I think we're all pushing through and just being tired.
But you're doing You're doing a great job, honey. You're
you're doing what is it you're doing. You're doing great, sweetie,
You're doing great, great sweetie. Yes, yes, so you're doing
You're doing a wonderful job. And I don't mean that
to be sarcastic at all. You definitely are doing the
damn thing even though it is hard, and I know

(01:11:02):
we're all we're all being pulled and we're all being
stretched in different ways, and it's just it's a lot.
It's a lot happening right now. But anyway, all that
to be said. As for me, you can find me
on socials at doctor John Paul. Go to my website
ww dot Doctor Johnpaul dot com where you can now
find my deck and you can also see my real
It's all there, so if you want to head over

(01:11:24):
there and see that, you can also book me to
consult if you want to learn more about my book.
All of that is there. You can also head over
to substack where my page the Unfit Professional. It's only
five dollars a month. You can add it each week
I literally write and actually that's what I'm gonna be
doing today. I will be writing where I write stories
about what it means to be an unfit professional, both

(01:11:45):
as a fat professional but also unfit in the sense
of being someone who does not fit the ideal of professional.
And you can also head over to Hulu and learn
more about our podcast by watching this uh this season's
or this the current the most current episode of Who
I Am Meant to Be.

Speaker 3 (01:12:02):
Other than that, this has been another show Stay black,
Fat fem and fabulous. And remember what, Joe.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
We may not be a cup of tea, but girl,
magra damn business and get someone else for yourself. Done well,
I drink is not your business and what you drink
is not mine. So pay the business that minds you, bitch.

Speaker 3 (01:12:20):
Look that part.

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
Ain't nobody saying nothing to you about Ain't nobody saying
nothing to you about going to Starbucks. So while you
are why you are mine all over here with stoke
to sert, Worry about yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:12:32):
Why about y'all's out. Worry about yourself. Worry like that
little girl.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
She looked in that camera and she pointed, and she said,
worry about yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:12:42):
Worry about yourself. We'll see you next week.

Speaker 4 (01:12:44):
Bye bye.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
The BFF Black Fat Fem podcast is executive produced by
Crmela Dawns and Jonathan P.

Speaker 4 (01:12:53):
Higgins.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
All content related to the show is edited by Chris Rogers.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
This has been a podcast by Heart Media and Culture
John Paul LLC The Black Fat Film Podcasts, where all
the intersections of a dandie are celebrated.

Speaker 4 (01:13:06):
Honey, I know that's right.

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