Blue Vest Activist

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Black Fat Fem Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
and Doctor John Paul LLC. Hey, everyone, welcome to another
episode of the black Dot FM podcast. For all the
intersection stivated, they are celebrated, I am one of your hosts,
also known as Doctor John Paul, and I just want
to say, the name is Mam Donnie M A M

(00:22):
D A.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
The name is Mom Donnie Donnie Hey MD.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
And again I yes, yes, Chris, you can go ahead
and insert the song there if you'd like.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
The name is Mom Donnie M. The name is Mom
Donnie M.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
But for those of you who are living under a rock,
my girl, my, so the world knows that I have
a little crush on on I love. I love a
man who is smart, honey, And this just weshed for you.
I see it for you. But honestly, I'm just grateful

(01:06):
that the right person finally won. Is It's so good
to see good people win. And I think I don't
know so. First of all, I actually do want to
be their friend. I've been saying very very vocally online.
I hope one day that my Nannie sees me and says,
let's yes, we can be friends. I want to be
his friend, because I just think he's a great person.
But it's just nice to see after this raggedy ass

(01:29):
year that we've had that, you know, finally we saw
some good stuff. I mean since twenty twenty. I have
not felt this much hope and this much joy since
twenty twenty. And I was like, oh, so some of
these niggas actually do got some sense. Okay, Okay, I
see it. I celebrated. And so, if y'all haven't picked

(01:50):
up what we're throwing down, this is going to be
a politically heavy episode. We're going to be talking about
politics pretty much all episode. And I did want to say,
you know that if it's not your if it's not
your thing, if y'all don't have the capacity to listen,
you want to skip to our guest ma'am and our
no man, Pam. I understand that too, But we are
going to be talking a lot about politics and hope
and all of those things today, and so I just

(02:10):
felt I really just wanted to start the show by
just saying that I am mad as hell. That I
didn't get to that I should say week because I
know you probably feel the same way I do, mad
as hell. That we didn't get to stay in NYC
to experience the joy of seeing him win, or I
should say, take the crown, but shout out to all
the friends who are still basking and the joy this week.
How are you, my love? We spent a whole weekend together,

(02:32):
so it feels like I haven't seen you for a minute,
but also we literally spent what four or five days together?

Speaker 2 (02:39):
But yeah, pretty much, you know, well, first hear that,
John is there aren't many people that I the army,
people that I don't get tired of. Yeah, and I
like and like and like I really came back, was
like I'm neving tired.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
John.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
That was like it was really nice, right, like the
moment in the in the car when we when you
were like I least like we're sisters, and I was like,
I like, I leave it too. So it feels really
good because many folks, I'm like, I'm like, I'm tired
of seeing you actually three days and like you always
like I like, I was like I could go for

(03:14):
for more days here. Really it was fun and for
me is to like I wish I had the foresight
to have thought about the election and been like, oh,
let me say I even think like I thought at
stages for fun, I mean, think about the election. I
was like, oh wait, the whole election happening, girl, Yeah,
so who But anyways, y'all it is usc Jordan ak

(03:36):
Joe ho aka the Brick Doll the season Honey, Okay,
I mean I tell you, Brick, I'm gonna tell you
that I am clicking onto joy whenever wherever Shakira that
I can. Also, people were saying, no, shake here a lot.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
I got it, you said, whenever whenever.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Yeah, bitch, Yeah, I feel jo right now because because
you like, with the prop fifty passing and you know,
and mondline's historic when and then people have a lot
of feelings. I know people have a lot of feelings
about it, and I totally like, like, I hear the feelings.
But I also like, I wish I was there to
have seeing people in the streets because that would have
been so so cool.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, it would have. I think for me, like I said,
I think, I just I'm looking for places and spaces
where people are happy for the right reasons. And that's
what it feels like. It feels like we're finally happy.
The sense of joy that I'm starting to see people
kind of have like the same thing, like right, like
seeing Prop fifty pass in California. We're gonna talk about
that in a bit, but seeing Prop fifty pass and

(04:40):
seeing so many Californians really come out and say, no,
we have to stop this man, Like we literally have
to stop these people from ruining our lives, ruining the
hustle and the bustle of years of Like I mean,
if you really do, if you really want to do
the math, it's over seventy years of work that these

(05:00):
people are trying to undo and dismantle. And the fact
too that there are people who died in this work, right,
Like I think we want to make I want to
make it very clear, you know, and I don't want
to get too deep too soon, but like if you
really think about it, like Malcolm died in the work,
Doctor King died on the work, Like there have been
so many people who have been their lives have been taken,
or their lives have been they've put their livelihood on

(05:22):
the lines to make sure that we could go out
and do what we do in terms of not only
just this podcast, but you know, the speaking, the teaching,
the educating that we both do and so I want
to make it very clear that this that yeah, Mom,
Donnie winning is is great and it feels good. But
to see people like AOC, to see Bernie Sanders, to
see people who you know, while people may go back

(05:44):
and forth about their politics, to see that we finally
have it feels like the world is starting to wake
up in a way that I didn't feel like we
had last November. And it's cool. It's it's really cool.
It's a really cool feeling to have. So with that
being said, since it's just us in the kitchen this week,
we ain't got nobody coming over trying to eat up
all of our snacks and girls, who girl, we ain't. Also,

(06:08):
the cost of snacks is high. Girl, we got to
start asking people to put some money into the pot
if they're gonna be coming over heating. But all that
to be said, I wanted to start off our show
in rega fashion by giving our girl, Miss Tisha Campbell,
her flowers to say, God, damn it, we're still here.
We are still here in this moment, and we're asking

(06:29):
the question. You know, I could not we could not
start this episode talking about politics and talking about the
joy without me asking the question why is the personal
political to you? Especially now? And I know for some
the statement, you know, some folks they kind of they
just kind of throw it around. Some folks say, okay,

(06:50):
personal is political for me, and you're like, okay, girl,
why And they don't really have the answer for you.
But I know for me, the reason why I thought
it was so important for me to ask this questions
specifically now is to think that even though I'm not
in a specific role or I'm not like super duper
engaged in politics the way I probably could be or
I sometimes want to be, the personal was political for

(07:14):
me because it truly means life or death for so
many of us right now. I mean, when you're thinking
about trans folks getting access to care, when you're thinking
about black and brown folks having certain rights stripped away
from them, these ice, you know, ice being in our
like literally, like I kid you not. So the night

(07:35):
I drove back from San Diego, I stopped to get
gas and as I was stopping to get gas, there
were two random cars that were sitting in the gas station.
And this was like nine thirty at night, sitting in
the gas station, and I immediately looked at them and
I said, Oh, that's ice. Like I just knew in
my soulo soul if that was ice that was sitting
at the gas station. And so it's like, we're not

(07:56):
safe anywhere. And I'm gonna talk more about that a
little bit later today too in my noma. But this
whole notion of like we're just not safe, everything is
a life or death moment for us in a lot
of ways. So thinking about Prop fifty for California, which
passed with sixty six percent of the state vote in
cities like Fresno voting blue in ways they never have,

(08:22):
it's a big fucking deal that this prop passed the
way that it passed, Because if y'all don't know, California
is red, as much as people try to paint it blue,
is red af in a lot of places. And so
it would have been easy for me to ignore this
prop and say I don't care about it, I don't
have time to vote. The reality is that in three

(08:43):
to four years this prop might mean life or death
for me, or it may mean life or death for
you or other people that we know and love. And
so I don't think people really get that if you
aren't black and aren't queer, You're constantly thinking about the
life or death of everything. And so when I say
that the personal is political, I'm literally saying my livelihood
is on the motherfucking line. And so I just I

(09:05):
wanted to ask this questioning you because, like I said,
we're going to be talking about politics in a minute,
in a in a very loving fun way. But I
did want to ask you what does it mean for you?

Speaker 2 (09:16):
You know, I think for me this is a big question.
But like, the personal always been political to me in
my adult life, Like I think, as I grew up,
I was always aware that being this mixed identity meant
something more like more to others and did to me
sometimes right like to some have being being having having

(09:38):
a white Jewish parent and a black parent, it represented
the growth of America and progressive values, right like, like
I know that, Like I know that my parents believe
that we were in a post racial world when I
was born, and they quick realized that that wasn't the case.
But they were like, but they were like, oh, like
we thought that it would be different because maybe not

(10:02):
even a decade before they got together, it would have
been legally allow them to be together. So like we're changing, right,
And also I was just an identity that others want
to suppress or oppressed, and so I've always existed in
a police body in some capacity, you know. I remember
when I was able to vote for Obama second term.

(10:22):
I felt really amazing and I basically my birthday because
because I'm in October voting November, so I was like
I was like right before the draining team, right before
the election. So I was able to skirt on in right.
And my mom was worry much about the democratic process.
She she always has been. Sounds a bit like to
rely on my taste, like she like, I think her
commitment to a democracy is like admirable, and I'm like, girl,

(10:43):
it's are very like like your democracy is like one
that is like like just strouted in like what like
it's shouting like an old system I think is not
it's more antiquated than it is modern or reported right,
but like but like I think I think about like votting,
like me and my dad and my mom vuted together,
which was a amazing. But my dad and my dad
was not he that man could not care about voting,

(11:04):
like I'm sure that man cannot about hen with it Okay,
I guess one else to do it. He was so
thrilled to go and cast his vote for Obama. Right,
he was so excited to do it, like it meant
a lot to him as a black man to vote
pronto the black man and so and so it's right,
like I grew up and you and I grew up
also like I grew up also with my with like

(11:25):
my like my mom. My mom's first generation, her her
parents sur by the Holocaust, were forced from force from
her home come to come to America. Right, So growing up,
she was always like people hate Jeish. People be careful,
be don't discuss being Jewish, right, Like that is political,
Like I like I there was never a moment in

(11:45):
time where I couldn't be plitic cool because something about
who I was was existing at odds work around me
and so like so you know, so I think when
people say, when people choose to be just passionate about
that statement in the person's political I think it's I
think I think like there's like like there choosing ignorance
to their own detriment because like respect like respectfully and lovingly,

(12:09):
whether you just whether you agree with it or not.
The person was political for you, right, Like, no, no.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
Matter who you are in the world, even even sits
straight white men, your identity is political because you are
the most politically weaponized like identity in like in in
our country, in our governmental system, so like, and like
you fight to maintain power, which is a political act,
and so right, it is an act of politics.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
So it's like it's like I think, I'm actually I'm
so over people who don't believe the person is the
political I'm so over people who think that they they
actually can choose to like look away from politics because
it will happen and infect them, right and that now, right,
people who's over Trump?

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Girl realized at your door that literally.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
The things that are not the way that they panned out.
And it's like, yeah, him, because you get anything being
just being just passionate. And now I realize that you can't,
like that's what happens because listen, because like, listen, you
don't have to be engaged. The ones who the ones
who micropolicies and your laws are engaged. And so I
see it as like why like why wouldn't I Why

(13:19):
wouldn't I want to be engaged? One? But also like
why wouldn't I want a state and what's happening to
me in my life?

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, like you know, and I know some.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
And like like voting isn't the only way to do that,
and I think only really clear, like voting in some
cases has proved to be non supportive of people and
some ofays it does, right, Like, I believe deeply in
local elections. I believe believe deeply in state elections, right,
I believe deeply in like like when we vote for
a state and local stuff that actually directly impacts us
federal stuff sometimes it's more challenging, but we like we

(13:55):
see every day how like how it impacts us, right,
Like I think a great example is where to your
points PROMP fifty and we just not be engaged. We
would not and this and I would say this was
a big turnof for people too, like like your point,
like Fresno, other cities that were in red cities voted blue.
I mean, and I don't if I'll say blue or
red in this moment, because it's like I don't you know,
like I play that perfectly, is like not part of
sitting that way for a while, just defeating Trump or

(14:17):
countering Trump, which.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
Is right, right, countering ye, but like, but they voted
on the right side.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
They voted on in line for an hour if not
longer to vote, and that was amazing. Like even for
the elections I've seen, like for the for the guminatorial,
for the potential elections last time, like I have seen
lines like this, I mean just did a little drop
off ballot. People were like, I'm going to get in
line and wait an hour or longer to vote, totally
vote for one prop Like that is really that says

(14:44):
something a lot about about where we are in this
moment and how people want to want to be engaged
and people understand that the personal it's as well.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, I think a lot of people like to your
point about getting in and just voting for one prop.
I think a lot of people are starting, like I
said earlier, they're recognizing that this is deeper than what
people got comfortable. That's the thing I was going to say.
People got real comfortable. People thought, oh times have changed,
We're beyond this, we're better than this, blah blah blah.

(15:15):
And I think people for these last ten months have
looked up and said, oh shit, yeah, we got we've
we've gotten too comfortable and we've recognized that voting and
I know voting is not the only way. I want
to make sure that I make that very clear because
I think people may listen to this and they may
think y'all are just y'all are heavily you know, relying

(15:35):
on voting as being the only option. I'm like, no,
there are multiple things that we should all be doing
actively at the same time to make sure that we're
protecting not only just democracy, but protecting humanity. And I
think folks kind of got away from that. And I
think now with the Prop fifty, with Mom Donnie, with
all of these things that we're starting to see on
the fact that a black woman was voted and as

(15:57):
a it was a gouvernor she's a governor, right, yeah, right,
I think its in Virginia or one of the like
this kind of stuff, people are starting to turn and go.
And I mean, and we'll be talking about massipulator, Like
people are starting to wake up in ways that I
think they kind of went to sleep on in twenty
twenty twenty twenty two and thinking we would be okay

(16:20):
and thinking we would be safe. And so I just
want to, you know, before we before we go into
like the meat of the show. I just want to
shout out anybody who is doing whatever they can right
now to protect humanity. And what I mean by that is,
you know, because again I have a lot of concerns
and I have a lot of thoughts about the Democratic Party,
and so I'm not going to say it's just democracy,

(16:41):
because it goes beyond that. I think we're seeing disabled folks,
we're seeing black folks, we're seeing queer folks, we're seeing
fat folks, We're seeing you know, non boy like whatever
you want to say. It like, everybody needs to work
together to end what's happening right now. And it's and
if again, even if this is just the blip in
in it, because you know, our world is still terrible,

(17:01):
it feels good in this moment to just see people
coming together to do what needs to be done to
help help us try to get things back on track.
So with that being said, now that we got our
producers working to get mom Donnie on the show, seriously,
we are working our asses off to get that man
on the show. Somebody who is a listener has connects

(17:22):
to the NYC Marrio.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
Ware, Well fly back real quick, y'all.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Look the way I booked that flight so quick. If
he said yes to.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
Being on our show, almost done on my return flight,
I'll go back.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
I'll go back to turn right back around and be
back in New York to do this in person. So, yes,
we are still working to get him on the show.
We're gonna take a quick break and come back for
more show.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Back in a second, and we are back fam So
this week, as we mentioned the top of the show,
we are staying in our political bag as we pursue
the topic of civic engagement. Honey, A time that might
feel yeah, civil rights, sivil rights, take this a riots,

(18:13):
the politics of it all, Yeah, time where things might
feel hopeless. As many as many of you know, I
dabble and play latimism being on two boards of local
organizations and then working for a national nonprofit. And John
are in the same boat, which is why I think
this would be a great conversation. And me and you
both have had conversations about how tough it can be

(18:33):
to see a bright light in this moment, especially with
all that is going on. So I want to post
this question for us as we think about the slight
wins we have seen this week how do we keep
the hope, especially in moments that might feel like things
will never change. And you know, for me, I'm thinking
about like with the win of Prop fifty and Mom Donnie,
I felt hope spark in me again. I want to

(18:55):
be really mindful of the thoughts I have around Mom Donnie,
because I know the Jewish is divided on his winning.
You know, I like they're likepecially the people that live
in New York, They're very divide. There are many who
are like, yes, we want him to win, and there
are many who are like, we don't know what this
means for us. I think we can't deny His marketing

(19:16):
strategy was brilliant and his campaigning was amazing, and I
actually believe he represents a different kind of political that
we haven't seen before, like even with AOC, right, Like
I think AOC is a person who I felt this,
like this level of joy for. But like the way
he's done it has been really powerful and like leveraging

(19:36):
social media for that too. And you know, I saw
a thread at the other day that I really the
person was like, I'm so happy when it's sad because
now I have to hold Hi accountable real and I
really appreciated that viewpoint, and I think that's what that
gives me hope is that like his winning right, people
can acknowledge that while acknowledge acknowledge that while people celebrate

(19:58):
his his winning, the real wor begins now. Yeah, make
sure he makes feel his promises right, like will he
be who he says he is? Or will he be
like every the politician? And think what gives me hope
is that people feel more engaged now to do this right.
People are like, know what we have someone who who
made his whole like his whole is it like foundation

(20:18):
whatever his whole like platform, whole, this whole platform being
being of the people. And so now the people can
say either you're of us or you're not right? Right?
Are you just like every the politician known to him kind?
Or what y'a should be for us? I think that
because that has to has to keep the hope. I
know that people are engaged enough to say, we're willing
and happy and eager hold accountable to what he says,

(20:42):
so do Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
But I also what I want to say for him
and a few other politicians I've been following, I do
appreciate that they've been open to being held accountable. Yeah,
And I think that's the thing, you know. I think
him saying, I know I can't fix everything, but I'm
going to try to fix some things. I think that
for me is enough to say, okay, girl, you know off,
do what you need to do. But I will say
that I love your your I love your thought on this,

(21:04):
because it is important for us to recognize that, you know,
two truths can exist at the same time. Can we
be excited and happy that he won? Yeah, but can
we also be worried and concerned that there are other
folks who are a little worried and concerned about his win. Yep,
that can live there too. What I will say, and
again I have other thoughts about it. I'm gonna save
it at the end of the show so we don't
go off the rails now, But I will say that

(21:26):
I definitely think it is important for us to recognize
that we just we need, we needed something different. And
I think what we're what across the board, not even
just with mom Donnie, but I think across the board
we need something different. And even now people in LA
are saying where is our mom Donnie? Like, well, we
need someone else who's gonna show us something different? But

(21:48):
I was gonna say, I feel this conversation is perfect
because this topic keeps coming up around me, this whole
notion of like, I feel like so many of us
see little glimpses of hope, and folks are saying it's
hard to kind of hold on to that. And I
know for so many people, specifically the folks I live
with and people that I know and people I work with,
they feel vocal over the years and have taken a

(22:11):
step back because they feel like their voice in some
way has been silenced and they feel like they just
don't have the energy to keep screaming into the vortex
that we need to do something different, like you said,
we need we need something different. And so I think
some folks some might see that, even me, right, I've
had people say you're not as vocal as you used
to be about all of these things, and I've gone, yeah,

(22:34):
like I've had to step back to protect myself because bitch,
I'm tired. But I don't want folks to mistake that
as giving up. I think we definitely, uh, you know,
we need to first really think about this notion of
of of how do we protect ourselves. How do we
protect our livelyhood? How do we protect us? And that's
why I said taking in these moments of like, even

(22:55):
if it's just like you said, if it's a very
divided and a very complid hope, because that's what I
want to say, it's a complicated hope, we can still
dance with that.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
Right.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
We need to protect our spirits, whatever that might mean.
We need to be able to find joy, like you
said earlier, in whatever way we can. And so I
think that this is so important for all of us
in this moment, especially going into next year, you know,
really saying to the universe that these nasty people can't
have my joy in any moment, right, in any given

(23:26):
moment in circumstance. If there's something about this moment that
is bringing me joy, I deserve to have it. And
I think that's how you start to protect your hope,
because it reminds us that there is something better on
the other side of all of this. And I think
that's the thing I have been I will I will
get I keep even going to New York, Jordan, Like,
I was so beat down before we left for New York.

(23:52):
And when I say beat down, it's just, you know,
like I said, the hits keep coming for those of
you who have not you know, my speaking engagements have
dried up, job opportunities have dried up, like all of
these things, you know, because people see me as a
DEI leader, right, even though I do so much more
than that. I mean, have an award winning podcast for
God's sake, I do so much more than just DEI stuff.

(24:12):
And because the world has labeled me that, the world
has said stay away from John Paul, right, and I
was feeling very just beat up really is a great
way to say it. And I had to say, like,
seeing how people responded to us being in New York,
seeing how people responded to our last episode, seeing how

(24:33):
people respond you know how again the wins, I'm really
trying to just have, Like the way I'm kind of
stepping back and saying, I've got to figure out how
to find joy and continue to keep finding it and
remind myself that even in all of this, when we
get to the other side of it, there's going to
be something that's so glorious that for me is what's
been keeping me going for these last couple of weeks

(24:55):
is knowing that bad came last always, you know, it
can last always. So yeah, that's that's kind of my
soapbox on that. But I do want to I do
have a question for you. I would love to ask
you know, what stories you know I keep telling people
because people ask me that all the time, like how
are we going to get through this? And I keep
telling them, we got to go back to the answers.
We got to go back to the work before us.
So what stories of the past have helped you know,

(25:18):
helped you hold light, have given you hope for the future.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
You know, it's not really so much about stories, but
rather about just like cycles, Like we know, the phrasing
of history repeats itself in some cases, right, They're phrasing
is history is dooms repeat itself? And I do see
that very true sometimes, but it's but it's not just
when started, Like it's not just doom that repeats. It
also repeats joy too, right, Like, like we we go

(25:47):
through a cycle of hurt and a heartbreaking and a
cycle of like joy and excitement. And so I think
like it's when that has people hold hold on to
help or give me hope for the future. Is that
knowing that what we experience right now is so sorry,
so much you wanted. Today is a really tiring day.
There's so but like everything is going to happen again

(26:10):
in some ways, right like like the good will come
back around. I also realize like light, like right now
we're in this fall season, and like the season in
general in general, like fall particularly is my favorite seasons
because this is not just because it's beautiful and gorgeous
and les riven colors, because like it's a it's an
actually big reminder of how ephemeral life is, or how

(26:31):
temporary life is, and how constant changes. Right like the
flourishment of spring begins to decay and the leaves that
were on this treet in abundance be gonna fall off
and dance colors and make space for new ones to grow.
And so it's like it kind of shows you that
it shows you like this the.

Speaker 4 (26:48):
Circle and it moves or so, but like that's really
how I feel, is I think that, Like so it's like, yeah,
it's not the story itself, it's just like the it's
just like the act of life itself gives me hope
because I know that something else will change.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
That will be better and good for us, there's always
me more in the best way. And also you know,
I was, I was, I was talking with a friend
recently about this similar thing to because they're they're like,
I feel helpless and like we're having a debate because
they were saying that they feel like public opinion around
queer and transness has gone like less, and part of
me was like, I hear you're saying, and I am

(27:25):
my apparent party is like is that just informed by
like your own like local experience ror like mine, Like
I'm struned by so many queer people like I do
not I'm like part party is in some cases my detriment,
like a little bit like like utopian where I'm like,
are are people caring less about us? As I see
this everywhere? Right? As always all I turn myself by

(27:46):
right versus I don't, you know, I'm I wonder if
they do or if they have a different community than
I do, and so and so you know, but it's so,
it's so, it's it's like, but I also get help
from that of like they may feel that there isn't
something about either there's something or by versa, and that
means I know that like like like that thing that
things will change. Also, a lot a lot of music,

(28:08):
a lot of Sam Cook changing don't come. I listen
to a lot of Sam Cook that helps me hold
on to the future. I listened to a lot of
speeches about change as well. So those are ways that
helped me. And I I think, you know, on the
heels of this question, I would love to ask you
just to your point about your beat down and your
you know, you're like you're celebrating wins this week and

(28:29):
the wins that we have this week. How do celebrating
the small wins like we saw this week help you
sustain help during this during the stepbacks you've had or
the hostile moments we keep seeing.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah, I think doing exactly what you mentioned just now
is so important. I think really, And I keep telling
people like even thinking down to you know, so many
of you, And I'm again, I'm gonna say this publicly.
I mean, and if people, I have been job searching
for months, right, and I have been trying to find
something that can pay more, because if you don't know,

(29:02):
living in California it's not cheap. And I keep telling
people it is expensive to be a Californian. It is
safe here it's safer here, I should say it's safe.
Fists say fur, say fer. It's not always safe, but
it's say fur here. But it's also hell a fucking expensive.
And so all that to be said, it was my
community who helped me get a job interview, right it
is it is ultimately going to be the community that

(29:24):
is literally, like what I keep telling myself, community is
going to be the only thing that saves us because ultimately,
these systems are not made for us to to thrive.
These systems are not made for us to be well.
These systems are not made for us to be able
to actively soar. And so when I think about, you know,
what Martha and what Sylvia did for you know, black

(29:46):
trends and black and brown queer people in New York
in the early nineteen seventies, When I think about, you know,
what bayart Rustin did to help queer people in the
back ends of the civil rights movement, all of those individuals,
right that, for me is what I think about, you know,
first is community and really like allowing myself to align

(30:06):
myself in community and whatever capacity, whether it's work, whether
it's you know, friendship, whether it's this podcast, what whatever,
community has been really big for me. But I will
also say really reflecting too on what Bayard was doing
that made the Million Man March so successful. Right, Like
the key word here is doing right. What are we
doing to make sure that we can we can we

(30:29):
can move the needle a little bit forward even you know,
especially now that we have people trying to pull that
needle back. I think about what was Coretta doing in
the kitchen to make sure Martin had what he needed
to keep going right. Who's gonna be, you know, in
whatever capacity, right, whether it be love or not, who
can be that Kreta for you? Who's gonna pour into
you in the moments? And so, like I said, I

(30:50):
think what was so? What was so? As much as
you said, you know, we had a really good time
and you looked over you like we really are sisters,
it was the ways that we poured in to each
other in those five days that we were together that
really made me say, yo, I really have a good
team of be like even thinking about, you know, shout
out to our old producer bay and our new producer Joey,

(31:11):
like they poured into us one of the days we
were there. You know, the entire day Joey stayed with us.
That for me felt like that's that's love, Like that's
that's These are the people who got me and see me,
you know. And I joke often that it's like we're
losing recipes, but in a lot of ways, it's like, no,
a lot of us need to go back and study
the cookbook. You know, we really have to get back

(31:34):
to that. And so I say that that to say
is that we have to call on the ancestors and
we got to sit with them. We got to let
them guide us and remind us how powerful we really are,
because a lot of us are forgetting that. The reason
why these people are acting and responding the way that
they're responding is because they know how fucking powerful we are.
They know how much we've been through and yet we

(31:55):
still keep showing up. And that's what I have to
tell myself. A lot people don't have an issue with me,
he say, people have an issue with how I show
up in the world. Someone I'd reshared this as a
as a real but someone was saying, you know, people
wish they had the freedom that you have, and I
think that's a lot of it. We're too free, We're
too happy too, We're too well quote unquote, and I

(32:17):
think folks are doing whatever they can to take us back.
But also our ancestors gave us the blueprint on how
to navigate that, and I think we have to go
back to those lesson lessons. I think again, I said
this earlier, we've gotten comfortable and nim Nigga saw an
open door and they snuck in. And we can't let

(32:38):
them make shop in our homes, in our heads per se.
And I think that's the thing that's constantly I'm having
to tell myself day in and day out to keep going,
is don't let these people make a home in your head.
Do not let these people get in your head to
make you think that everything you've fought for, everything that
you've accomplished, means nothing in this moment. And I think

(32:58):
that's what I saw this week. Like as much as
people have tried and that's the other thing I'll say too,
as much as people have tried to downplay mom Donnie,
Mom Donnie did the work to become the mayor. That's
the thing. He's worked his ass off, whether it be
an education, whether it be in his campaign. He had
to do the work and so that's the thing, Like,
it's not just him wishing to be mayor it's not

(33:20):
just me wishing to have an award winning podcast. We
are doing the work, and I think that for me
is a message from beyond if I'm you know, and
so I know this probably feels very proselytizing, very Christian
ey y'all't know how I feel about that, but I
think we have to sometimes stop in this moment. And

(33:41):
like I said, I know me and you have had
these conversations offline. We're we're tired, and so I'm like,
we had to have a conversation about how can we
re energize each other as we as we have listeners
who probably are listening and saying, I can't do this.
I don't think I can do this for another three years.
I wanted to make sure that we had a moment
to say, yo, take this win and be and really
reflect on it. So I'm curious to ask you as

(34:03):
we as we continue to move through the segment, how
do you transform the feelings of turmoil or grief that
you have into renewed determination. I know you've been through
a lot in the last few years. I mean, you've
lost your father, You've had some other personal things pop up,
and so and then also now having to deal with
your the intersections of being Jewish and having all of

(34:24):
the things that you've been seeing. I'm sure it impacts
you too, And so I would love to to ask
you that And and I want to be clear and
asking this question. I'm not telling people that they need
to pretend like shit is not draining. We are all tired.
I mean, I'm not trying to call you out, but
you're yawning. And you're yawning because I didn't think we're
fucking jet lagged. We're so tired.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
I was like New York time and just drove back
from Los Angeles. Yeah, and who I'm tired.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
We are tired. And I mean I've been all over
the place these last two days between meetings, between having
to deal with home stuff and so, like, I get it,
we're both tired. But I would love to ask you know,
I want us I wanted to ask you that question
from the scope of having a conversation about how to
move beyond letting the state of anger or frustration or

(35:12):
or idiocy. Really this this idiocy that we're seeing every
day be our permanent residence. So what are you doing
keep yourself renewed?

Speaker 2 (35:21):
Big a question. So I have several thoughts and ones
like I'll get to the thought that I put in
the show for. But the first all I have is
I think a lot about James Baldwin's commentary on rage,
right when he says to be black in Americas to
be a constant day of rage. See, And I think
when people we think that, when we say, like letting
go of the anger to be our permanent state residency,

(35:42):
I don't always know if I actually want to let
go of that because parme me actually thinks like or
you know, maybe maybe not anger, because I think anger
is a temporary emotion and rage is the state of
being Like I'm kind of always rageful, and I think
rage actually is a permanent residency of mine. But I'm
also multi dimensional, right, like rage is a perferent residency,
as is joy and curiosity and wonder. Like I have

(36:03):
a lot of rage inside me, and I think I'm
actually tired of trying to tire trying to suppress that.
And I think right like when like when I use
that is part of my fuel to be determined, right,
it's not about termorial grief. It's about saying, like you know,
rage actually does feel me to want to fight for
a better world, right, Rage feels me to want to

(36:24):
counter systems of power. Like I just held an event
recently for work where we discussed structures of power and
leadership and authority, and we discussed models of leadership that
focus on sharing power with others or mutual aid models
that focus on independence, because we know that the structures
we have right now are not built to sustinance or
support us. Right to your point about to your point

(36:44):
about how how did they or do this or do
this right, Sylvia marsh to do this right this because
they said, we're going to subvert what we think is
the leadership model that we've seen, right, induce something different, right,
like you know, but like correct as much as the
leader as Martin as Martin is about memory, like they
both are big leaders. You know, Yes, Martin was the
one that was like that was on the pulpit preaching,

(37:06):
but career is one that sustained him. That is that
is leadership right there, you know, Sylvia, and you know,
I mean especially Marcia was often pouring from a from
like a doled cup. Often like a broken cup, but
she still masure people are fed and had and had

(37:27):
right to sleep like that even though I meant she
didn't have place sometimes, right, I'm not saying that that's
like the best from of leadership, but I'm saying, like
that from leadership has when I find really really inspiring
and powerful to say, like, I'm going to be in
the trenches with you so I can make us both safe,
right and and and like and like where like we

(37:47):
as what I said about the abou being interdependent, you know,
and I know you know I I have this question
for it is important for us and people are listening
of like how to keep hop with live and the
words to Jackson, but we also named I was reading
his you know, his addresses with where this comes from? Right,
and this is you know, this is after this is

(38:07):
after Martin was killed. He he has those of Parks
come up on the podium to celebrate a knowledge there
as well too, and he has this line in his
address that says progress will not come through boundless liberal
liberalism nor static conservatism, but the critical mass of mutual survival,
right and like this is probably from the seventies, I think, right,

(38:30):
So it's like it's like wow, to recognize like he's
saying that progress won't come from like from like from
like the left being so angry and moving. It won't
come also from the right being unmoving, Like it comes
from the idea that we actually have to we have
to mutually survive. I think that's a pathway forward keeping

(38:53):
you know, like that's the pathway toward keeping hope is
a knowledge that we're all starving to survive and when
we put down the side to survive so much more
as possible. Right, I'm also thinking of the way like
like my friend I had had, the one I was
turning to debate with, we had this conversation about like
they had they felt like they are like Jordan, what

(39:13):
do you think the queer communities to do to like
win a fight? And I was like I don't and
and and I was like, I don't think we're doing
anything wrong, Like I don't think we do anything. But
the issue the issue is an ask girl like you
and like they were like they were saying that they're
the the issue is our messaging. I was like, our
messaging is fine and consistent. Hello, the messaging against us,

(39:34):
the one that that is a problem, but I was
thinking more and more right like, like I was to
the point I was like, I think we're putting trying
like he they saw as we have to convince people
of our humanity, and I'm like, I don't have any
desire to convince him anything they should already know. But
what I think we could do right is they're saying
like right like like instead it's trying to convince them

(39:55):
towards our movement that we have. Part of me is
like remind them of that they're actually already doing that movement.
I was talking to a podcast or something recently that
was and I'm not sure where it was. It was
very powerful of like there's a point where they're making
of where they're talking about mutual aid and they're saying,
you know, like Maga folks are against mutual aid, but
Maca people are actually doing mitual themselves, right Like if

(40:17):
the people in Maga, if if their friends is the job,
they will help them get a job right away. You know.
If if the Proud Boys are in jail, someone will
help craft jail. That's mutual aid. And so it's all
my girl with the messaging is actually, hey, Diva, you're
trying to stop us the same thing you're actually doing yourself, right,

(40:39):
Like we're actually trying to survive just like you are.
And so right, it's like my hair convince you with
my my here, convince you that I'm worthy of living.
But I'm telling you that the ship is the ship.
I'm doing the same ship you're doing, so while you're
not like and and and I think.

Speaker 5 (40:55):
That severely yours don't. That's all I heard when you
say that, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry yours don't.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yeh, because my aid serves other than yours zone like exactly,
but I mean, I mean like like that, I think
I think that that's like how it transformed my feelings
to more grief intoations realizing that like and like I
think people people might hate this, but like we have

(41:31):
to stop thinking we're so different from those that we
have something we're so different from like the mongo folks, right,
Like our values are very different. We're not the same value.
Its like we have people are actually not so different,
Like they're doing the same we're doing to save our community.
And so that's and so I think that to me,
like I get just this point of saying progress only
comes from the critical massive mutual survival because we actually

(41:52):
do need each other's survive even if we even if
we are not like having aligned values, which is hard.
Some people will say fuck you for that, and that's fair,
Like I get a girl, but like.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
I love what you're so I love what you're so
matter of fact and you're like some people will say
fuck you girl, and it's like yeah, yeah, well and
well okay, what now?

Speaker 5 (42:17):
Yeah okay, but we still need to survive, bitch.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
I'm I'm like, okay, girl, like fuck me, but I'm
still fine for the relations right your here?

Speaker 1 (42:26):
So are you like right right?

Speaker 2 (42:27):
Yeah? And you know, I just I humble myself and
being like listen, people can say fuck you and that's okay,
like because the other day, like that doesn't impact my
life like missus, missa, and I feel bad about it,
but like you're saying, it doesn't really change anything for
me or for you, Like you say okay, and we're

(42:49):
still looking at each other blinking. It's like like we're
both still here, big, so what are we gonna do
about it?

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Yeah, it's really that. I I love that. So I
will say I love the analogy. When you were talking
about I want to talk about Marcia and Sylvia and
the empty cup, you know, or the crack cup. I
think it's funny shout out to very Delta because she
was like, we're so you know people. She was like,
Very Delta is for the girl who loves to look
at the cup or the glass half empty, but it's

(43:16):
also for the girl who's asking where the fuck did
the other liquid go? And I said, yes, that is
very much the kind of girl that I am. I
am asking where is all of the liquid? Because why
is my glass only half full? But anyway, all that
I said, shout out to our queen over there, I
will say, I think one of the biggest things and
to your point, is is really and that's why, like

(43:37):
I said, I was so happy for this trip. I've
been so happy to have you as my co host
on the show. I only want to be around people
who genuinely make me feel good, even in these moments
that life is hard and when I'm having a tough day.
I have friends, you know, a friends who listen to
the show, friends who don't. They will pour into me
in different ways, regardless of if if I'm truly telling

(44:00):
them or being honest with them about what's going on
in my life. And like I said, I I I
definitely just want to say, like, I'm so grateful that,
you know, we got to have this weekend together, because
not too many people on their podcasts and say, oh,
you know, I flew out with my you know, my
co host and we did this and we wouldn't do no,
Like I saw that so much as a privilege, and
it's it's something that literally restored me in a way

(44:22):
that I don't think that would have happened if we
didn't we didn't go together. I mean the labs, being
in the back of the ubers and not knowing where
the fuck we were going that first night us getting
in like I we I don't know where we talked
about it, but we definitely have said like the first
night getting in was rough and.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
So all of that, you know what. And but I
think that's like the reason why I was like, I'm
doing this is because I want this experience with you
right right and and and and and I knew, like
I was like, listen, Jordan, meet me in the mirror.
It's been a rough time getting here, girl, Like your exhausted.

(45:00):
This was annoying as fuck. But like but like but
like like like you know you know, like if you leave,
you won't have this. This moment really transformed the experience
of your friendship with John and that and like that
to me is more important than anything. Yeah, and I
left being like yeah, I fucking I fucking knew it.
I knew I have and makes experience with you like
like so you know the thing, all all the all

(45:22):
the bs that happened for before we got there was
it was.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
It truly was and I I I think it also
shared with me and I've I've been super emotional these
last three days and I don't know why. It's probably
because of the moon. We had a full moon earlier
this week. I will say, I think for me too,
it's to recognize that I'm not alone in the fight.
Like I kept looking over at you and I kept
going I I And I think that's the thing, even
that I'm watching you and I'm looking at you now

(45:48):
like we've been friends for almost ten years. But to
see the Jordan that I knew when I met you,
and to see the Jordan that I know now, even
the Jordan who you know won't return my text back
on time or oftentimes I'm just hey, hey, you're my sister.
I can say that, right, which also I know if

(46:09):
I called you you'd be there right. Yes, even though
she sent me to the wrong Mexican food spot too,
we're not gonna talk about that ship on the air.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
So she sent me to the where was the place
we went to? We went to several places. I gave
you the place you.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
Did so with you when you however, you still get
me the wrong location. But anyway, I say all of
that to say like you are my sister, and it
all and it reminds me daily that I'm not alone
in the fight, and it's it's just so refreshing to
know I have someone who is so loving and so
kind in this world and that in so many facets

(46:50):
of my life makes my life so much better. It's
like I don't I don't ever have to worry about
you know, whether it be online or whether it be off.
I know you've got me, you know what I mean.
And that's what I think this weekend really showed me
was really it was like like this this person really
has me in ways that I have not been able

(47:10):
to like count on people in a lot of ways.
And so it's just like I said, it was in
the same thing with looking at Joey, like thinking about
what Joey did the entire time we were in New York.
Joey pretty much set up everything for us getting in
and leaving, and it was just so cool. I'm kind
of mad they're not here listening today because I mean,
obviously the day that we're giving them all their flowers,

(47:31):
you know the recording, but that's neither here nor there.
I'm sure they listened to the episode. They'll listen to
the episode, but I say all that to right right,
But it's literally like, you know, Joey was like our
long lost cousin, right, it was like the cousin that
we met, the cousin we we only kind of know
through social media and then when you got there, like, oh,
this person's cool as fuck. And I was cool spending

(47:53):
the whole day with them, Like we literally ran around
both uptown downtown. Shout out to one of my friends
who knows that I don't public transportation. We were on
several subways, honey, and it just and it was cool.
It felt like home, and it felt safe to be
around y'all, and it reminded me that even in this
fucked up regime and this fucked up, you know world

(48:14):
we're living in, I have still found people in my
life that provide peace and safety, and that for me
is enough to feel hopeful. And so I'm hoping kind
of I want to close on this note of the segment.
On this note, I'm hoping that anyone who's listening to
this episode who is feeling very hopeless or feeling like,
oh my god, I don't know how I'm going to
make it to tomorrow. I don't know how I'm going

(48:35):
to make it to the weekend. I don't know how
I'm going to make it, you know, until next month,
whatever the case may be. I'm hoping that they find
that same safety and hope in the in the these episodes.
And if you know, if or when you know that
we finally have to check out and we have to say, yo,
we're not doing this anymore, I think it's it's going
to be really beautiful for us to be able to say,

(48:57):
go listen to episode one seventy six, listen to episode
one fifty, go listen to episode you know six, And
I'm hoping that those episodes will fill you up. And
so yeah, I'm just grateful that I get to help
be a begin of light for those who often right
now feel so like they're left in the dark.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
So all right, fam, Well, now that we have to
get a moment to encourage your hold on to hope
and to friendship, we have that both of those won't
be the bills. We got to take a quick break
and come back with more show in just a bit.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
Oh okay, So this week in the what's Pomping segment,
we are going to talk about probably something y'all really
could give two shits about, but hey, it is what
it is. We need a content and this week was slow,
So this week I don't know if y'all saw we're
gonna talk about. Actually, so this is the thing. I'm
very cautious because I want to talk. I want to

(50:03):
talk about my queen, but I also want to make
sure y'all understand that I'm talking about my queen and
this is not a dig at her. So if anybody
who listens to the show works for Parkwood or no
people will at Parkwood, I want to make this very
clear that this is not me digging at Beyonce. This
is me just talking about what I see online and

(50:24):
getting my good sister's feedback on what we saw for
this week. So, like James Baldwin once said, I critique
America because I love her, some people critique Beyonce because
they also to love her. And I would even say
that she is America, and I feel like we kind
of in the same woods in this conversation. So as

(50:46):
you may or may not have seen Beyonce in traditional fashion,
it's back on her internet asking the dolls to buy
some of her Christmas items off of her website, and
a lot of the girls are pissed. I am not,
so I want to make that very clear that I
am not girls girls okay, but a lot of the
dolls and a lot of the girls are pissed. Many

(51:06):
are calling it tone deaf in this moment, and I
want to make it clear that I know that that
terminology is problematic. But I am just a reporter. I
have a degree in journalism. I'm just here with the facts,
so please don't come for me. But I wanted to ask,
why do you think so many people are pissed at
her in this morning? I guess yeah, that's the real question,
not even just her. There are a couple of other

(51:28):
people I know who've been catching a lot of heat
for just stuff, And I'm like, I'm trying to understand
because I mean, my biggest thing is and this is
what I was going to say before I hand it
over to you. We know that Beyonce is a capitalist,
Like being an entertainer is all about capitalism, right, You
got to spend money to be entertained. So I'm like,
I kind of feel like, I'm like, why are y'all

(51:49):
surprised that she's now dropping clothes when she just try
like it's not it doesn't it make like make it
make sense that she's a billionaire. Obviously she's going she's
that's what her Her whole old brand is capital Like, yes,
it's a it's a it's a cool brand. It's a
beautiful bran. I love Beyonce. I love what she does.
But I'm also like, why are y'all so surprised? Like
I don't know, I don't know that if there's something

(52:11):
I'm missing, And I just was like, I want to
get my sister's take on this because I'm I'm struggling
with it a little.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
So you know, I don't care about this BS people
are dying. Kim could not. I could not let people
are dying.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
Com people are.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
Choice stories that people have for it, calling it blank,
which I'm like, so you're saying it's problematic but using
from language to call romantic. So like I'm with you, Okay,
the last house storing stones' oh the girls can the
girls can't take me, honey, the girls can take me
a lot like that, but really like.

Speaker 5 (52:53):
We I'm just saying, okay, you're right.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Also, yes, because it's a capitalist we exist in capitalism.
Bitch is just gonna buy the outfits like like and
I was like calling it that word like also like
like let's be honest, I.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
You buy it or don't.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
Like well, but also like y'all think like she has
a whole company. It's not just like her doing it right,
And and thisically is this through the Ivy park line.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
It's through, it's through, It's it's Beyonce dot com. It's
so she's taken. It's almost so the bigger I guess.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
That's has her own merchan. Now yeah, she just if.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
You go to Beyonce dot com, you click on her
merch and it's all of the so like slave bites
it's all Christmas stuff.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
Yes, she has a bang thong set. People are listen.
Would I pay fifty five bucks for a slave distress hot?
I would not. Would I pay one fifty for a
hoodie that says blue Ivy Manager, I would not. Would

(54:13):
I pay I want to say, for a say, for
for a say lumier, I would not. Do I know
those who would? Yeah? Like do I know who would? Yes?
I do know who would. And I guess what it's
therminally not mine?

Speaker 1 (54:27):
Like right?

Speaker 2 (54:28):
I just I think I mean and you you me
with made this point before too. I just don't any
celebrity to be with a person that says me like,
we're like like coming back to celebrities, how responsibility to
themselves and themselves only I'd like to think that they
responsibility to like the people around them and stuff, but
like better but but like better than At the end

(54:49):
of the day, mister has to make money. And I'm
sure she thinks it's fun and joyful. Right. Would I
pay forty four dollars for limited editions sacred candle set?
Probably not either? You know, like all these things that
I would, I just would not do. Well. I paid
twenty dollars for a chem her incense holder. Why would
they bucks for her incense holder for a little hot
like what why would I do that?

Speaker 1 (55:10):
But you know what would Yeah?

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Now I pay her bucks for a ben cozy robe.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
I want that robe. But the problem is one it's
sold out and two I'm too big for it. And
so to my point that I'm more pissed off that
she don't have she she keeps releasing she now see see.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Like the real issue here is why she Like if
let's have that conversation.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
That's what that's what gotau the fuck? The can't should
she be released and stuff? In this moment when everybody
is broke? That's yes, that's valid. But I want to
have a conversation with whoever keeps putting ship up on
that site and they can't. So you can't find a
supplier who provides three x four x or five x.
And I'll even say this, I would pay the extra

(55:55):
two three dollars for something if it was a three
x four x or so, I would pay for it
just to be able to say I have it.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
Because listen, like we're we're all exsting in capitalist anyway anyway,
So like I can't change that. Way I can grap
about is why can't I access the things?

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Why can't I as a capitalist? Right, why can't I
have it?

Speaker 2 (56:17):
Like like, well, like why can't I use my capital
to get the thing?

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Right? Why can't I show the capital to get the things?
And I think that's also you know, I I think
you know. I. I get what the dolls are saying.
I get it. Yes, Beyonce should be smart enough to
know that people are broke. But my thing becomes when
you are that fucking rich.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
Okay, but like like like we're all broke, all right,
we're all broke. Like I don't think she's concerned. She's not.
I don't think like she's so far around she's concerned,
and truthfully, it's not. It's not her thing to be
concerned about, like like if she wants if she wanted
to issue, Let's be honest, if she wanted to change it,
she would right like she's talking her like and I

(57:01):
and I don't have the goods to be concerned about.
Who doesn't about me? Right? Like? She shows your concern
through her music. I care about you all. Here's the
music to make you, to make make.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
You feel better about your life life.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
And that's why I'm giving the the day she has
a business. The business has to the business. The business
has to business and like, you know, you know, like
and like like I'm not saying I'm not saying that's
like right or good or okay, but also I also
think right didn't care Actually not the like right conversation
for anybody. It's not about like what's right or wrong
like like it's like like it like it just is.

(57:36):
We can choose to just pay in other things.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
I just want to know why is Beyonce. And I
say this as somebody who like I like, I hear
the concern, but I also wanna, I wanna I want
to platform this like and I'm gonna keep saying it.
Why is she the only one who we expect so
much from Like I feel like we expect her to
do everything the right way when there are so many

(58:02):
other celebrities like I don't I wish, I wish people hell,
you know you know what I mean. I am. Maybe
I'm fulfilling that.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
What I'll give her is that I think. I mean, yes,
I so you know you're not wrong. I hear you like, yes,
I agree because I think like in some cases, like
she has done the right thing, and so I think
it's also hard to write like right, like she like
she but on myself like like like she has given
like a lot of money to like HBCU, she's given
money for like scholarships. She like she like like paid

(58:32):
money to like like help them, like like like natural disasters, right,
she's just used She's used to art to platform the
impacts of natural disasters or black folks. Right, so I think,
like I think people's thought processes. But she has done
the right thing, So why won't she keep doing the
right thing?

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Right?

Speaker 2 (58:49):
And I hate to say it, but like.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
It's not her job, like look at the command the
government should be.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Like like so it's right, it's jobs when it's not
her job, but to should do the right thing, should
do the right thing? Who is good for her? Like
and like that that's just like everyone, Like it's what
everyone does. Like like she's not an activist, like she
like she's not She's not saying I'm beyond I'm an activist.

(59:23):
She is like I'm Beyonce. I'm saying I'm entertainer.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
Like but like does things when I feel.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Exactly exactly who who sometimes does good things that feel
good and look good to the world. And I think
and and and right and and like, yes, I I
don't think it's wrong of us to say, you have
the money, girl, do the things right. I wish Oprah
would do more things.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Get no, Gail got the money, right?

Speaker 2 (59:56):
But but who was at But who was at that party?
Right at that that like like Republican Party?

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Yeah, everybody?

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Yeah, I I I think you can't blame it all.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Right. I just want people, I think people that I
I pose this for people to just remember these people
did not get rich by doing quote unquote good thing,
like like I always have it and a half. It's
so hard to say out loud, but rich people don't
get rich by doing good work because there's no money

(01:00:31):
in quote unquote good work. And what I mean by
that is saying, like, our world doesn't we don't lawd
people who do. Like if if that was the case,
a lot of these nonprofits wouldn't be closing. That's what
I'm saying, Like the nonprofits are doing good work, wouldn't
be fucking broke. If I think.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
In the episode of Last Cunch Recess with and like
and like and and they're like little like like like,
I don't think it's so honey makes like a it's
a really quick line a joke, but she's she she
says authenticity is expensive, and like and like it's a
he but it's also it's very true, like authenticity expensive, girl,

(01:01:14):
Like there are days where there are days where I'm like,
I make I make up broke because I'm because I'm
like because I'm like giving something to help somebody, right,
and like for me, yes, I would rather struggle than
see other people struggle. And at some point, I guess
I'm doing that because at some point I would ye,
you know, so like yeah, like authenticity is expensive, girl,

(01:01:37):
and like and yes, like you don't you don't make
hella money, do it? Like like doing these things like
there are there are very there are very few multi
million dollar activists.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
Right, very few, very very to him the name one, I.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Can't and and I really I really wish I could.
I wish I could. But the question become activist millions.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Yeah, that's that's the question that people want to ask
because we see how you know, shout out to Patris Colors.
We see how people treated her when she bought her house, right,
like people lost their fucking mind when she bought her home,
you know, and the same thing. Who's the baby who
wears that coat? Old boy? You get the blue vest?
What is his name? He's an activist too. He had

(01:02:24):
a blue vest and was getting all these endorsements like
from forget what his name is. I don't know his name,
but anyway, he had a blue vest, and I remember
people on social media losing their fucking mind when he
was getting his endorsement deals and doing what he was doing.
But again, it's this notion of if you're doing good work,
you should be broke, and and I wish we could

(01:02:44):
change that. But I also like to keep saying Beyonce
has never purported herself as an activist, so why that's
his name? Yes? Did you search blue vest activists?

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Do you see that type? How do you know that
vision's career?

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
Yeah? Can I just know it? I knew you such
stupid the s c O of it all, But anyway,
I I just I, like I said, I think that
I think we all need to.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Really, I've never in my life so called out because
it's so like like give me the most like basic
big type blue vest.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Like some boomer I am telling you know what.

Speaker 5 (01:03:34):
I was gonna title this episode something else, but I
am titling this episode.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Blue Vest.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
Really typed in and I was like, I took my
glasses off so no one can see the reflections.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
I was like, how do you know that you can't
do that?

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
My la?

Speaker 6 (01:03:57):
There's no trick here, girl, I am screaming, you are
so dumb. Yes, yes, but anyway, anyway, we gotta get
out of here.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
We gotta get out of here.

Speaker 5 (01:04:14):
Now that I have closed all of my Beyonce dot
com fucking what do you call those things?

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
Browsers?

Speaker 5 (01:04:22):
We are going to take a quick break and come
back with our yes ma'am pam and I No man
PAMs for this week.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
We'll be back in a bit, all right, y'all. I
am still laughing from our last segment. But anyway, this
week for our yes ma'am and no No Man PAMs,
we're gonna stand our activist political bags and we're gonna

(01:04:50):
just shout out all the things that we love. For
those of you who are new here, are yes ma'am's
are the things that we love. Our no mpams are
things we can't stand and so or things that we
don't like, and so this week I wanted to give
my yes man pam to the folks out in Mississippi
who broke the Republican Party supermajority in Mississippi Senate. So
I'm not gonna purport to I know what all of

(01:05:10):
this means, because I'm not like I know about politics,
but I don't be in it like that. I just
I'd like to just own the stuff I need to know.
So I don't even know what a supermajority is, but
I do know that it is a big fucking deal
because Mississippi is a huge battleground. Say, I do know that,
and often states like this can make our break elections,

(01:05:31):
and so the fact that there are now more Democrats
than there are Republicans in that in particular area, it
could potentially help us down the line more than anything.
It's the way folks came out there to rebuke extremism.
That has been the thing that a lot of folks
have been saying. The reason why they came out and
drove the way that they did was to rebuke extremism

(01:05:54):
and in a lot of ways working to restore checks
and balances and show people, especially black people, that their
voice matter. And so, like I said, it's a big
fucking deal. It's just a really big fucking deal that
they came out and they voted the way that they
did in order to to to to really break or
mess up the systems that we're trying to overtake and

(01:06:16):
overthrow checks and balances, and and as you all see,
they're still trying to you. I will. I also want
to say this, I think it's really fucking cool that
New York. I guess the the voting system that they use,
they said they're using a different one. They used a
different one because the people who used the last, the
last voting systems that they had, I guess they have

(01:06:39):
ties to MAGA. So it's just it's it's like people
are starting to become very quick and hip to the
ways that folks are doing things. And it's really cool
to see that black people are showing up. And it
does bother me. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna hold you.
It does bother me that it is us again who's
coming out to say folks. But it's really, really, it's

(01:06:59):
really fucking cool to just see that places that traditionally
don't give a fuck about us are starting to show
a little bit of care and trying to make sure
that we have what we need. So happy about that
my nomn pam. Okay, So I want to make sure
that I make this very clear that I was very
very intentional about how I type this, and so I
want to make sure that I don't I don't overstep
where I don't make anyone feel a certain type of

(01:07:20):
way about what my nomnpam is this week. I want
to make it very clear that I So the through
line of what I'm about to say is I see
through it, Okay. I understand the concerns that people have
about Mom Donnie. I get it, I hear it. I
want to make it very clear that I'm like, yes,

(01:07:42):
he there have been people who have asked him about
stuff that has happened over there over in Palestine. That's
what I'm what I'm alluding to, And I don't want
to spend time talking about that because that is not
something that I'm and I want to keep saying it.
I'm not educated enough to be able to get into
the minutia of all of that, Okay, So I want
to leave that there. What I want to make a

(01:08:03):
point is is that I am sick of people using
parts of their identity to hide their racism. And what
I mean by that is I e. Deborah Messing. It
would be very different if this woman said, Okay, Mandannie
has platform this and platform this and platform this, and
I don't think any of those things serve the Jewish community. Okay,

(01:08:26):
I hear you, Deborah Messing, I hear you. But where her?
What's the word the the basically her racism, her her bias?
Where her? But that's what I was looking for. Her
bias jumped out is when she starts talking about, well,
I don't think that he's qualified and I don't think this,
and I don't think that. And it's like, okay, girl,

(01:08:46):
that's where I'm starting to see your bias, because honestly,
all you could really well, where was he? What has
he talked about? Nine to eleven and blah blah blah,
And it's like, no, girl, he's not running for president.
He is running for the mayor of New York City.
So what he's been talking about is all of the
shit that's going on in New York City that he
needs to do work around. What you're talking about is

(01:09:08):
how you don't see it for Muslim people. You could
have just said that and kept it pushing, right, And
that's the thing I guess I really wanted to say, like,
I'm sick and tired of people utilizing elements of their
identity to hide the fact that they don't like a
specific person or a specific race of people, or a
specific kind of people. What I hear when I heard

(01:09:29):
her talking was that she has issues with Muslim people.
Let's name that, okay, now, now is she? Now? If
we were to go to him and say, what are
you going to do?

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
Now?

Speaker 1 (01:09:40):
Say, for instance, he was running for presidency and they
said what are your thoughts on the war? And he
skated past it. Light his ass up, Okay, Like, you're
supposed to be the president of the country and we're
asking you questions about this war that's going on over
there in Palestine and how we're funding it. What are
you going to do to end it? That's that's that's okay,

(01:10:00):
let's let's let's have that convo. But mom, Donnie is
is a mayor of NYC. He is talking about I.
What he's talking about is I need to make sure
everyone in NYC can afford to live somewhere, including the
Jewish people who live in Crown Heights, we want to
make sure they have affordable housing. That's the conversation I

(01:10:21):
want to have now, if you would were to talk
to me and say, Okay, Mom, Donnie, I'm gonna ask
you this question. Jewish people are being pushed out of
Crown Heights because of the cost of living and because
of this, that and the other, and no one is
there to protect them, or people in Crown Heights are
being killed for being Jewish. Let's have a conversation about that. Right,
that for me is valid. That's a valid thing to

(01:10:43):
ask a mayor of a city. How are you gonna
protect these Jewish people living in Crown Heights, the siscific
Jewish people that are being attacked. That's that's a conversation.
But that's not what she's saying. You're you're talking about
all this other shit around Mom Donnie, that has nothing
to do with his campaign. So why I'm so hyped
up about it is I'm just sick of I'm really

(01:11:04):
it really irks me when white people specifically do this
shit when they see someone who is very very clearly,
very very very educated, very clearly has ran a great
campaign and they find ways to undermine them. That's what
I'm pissed off about. That's my no man Pam this week.
And I'm gonna go a little long because i got
something else i want to say too. It's it's same

(01:11:25):
in line, but it's not. I'm just I'm I'm really.
It really irks my soul. And also, Michael Rappaport, shut
your bitch ass up, Shut the fuck up, because you
remind me of that old bitch what's her name who
only come out like a hedgehog or every time, she
only come out every time it's time to vote. Sin
you ain't you ain't said ship up until what a

(01:11:47):
week before Mom Donnie was supposed to be elected? Where
were you out on the campaign trail? What the fuck
were you doing for the people of New York City?
Since you got so much shit to say? Like, it's
just it just it really gets under my skin when
all of these people start to have all of these
qualms and all of these concerns, and it's like, if
you got all these qualms of concerned debu messing, you
could run for mayor. Michael Rappaport, you could be the mayor.

(01:12:09):
Why don't you fucking do something. Why does it always
have to be on us to do something for everything?
So that's that I know I'm going off. I know
I'm Beyonce heated, but it just it really irks me
when when when people try to platform their identity as
a way to further like racism or xenophobia, and it

(01:12:31):
just and it's like, girl, you already know what he's
up against. Knock it off. Knock it off. The other
thing I want to say, if there's anybody who listens
to this show, I know someone hit me actually, so
I want to shout out to April April Rain. I
don't know if any of you know who Apri Rain is,
but she's a good friend of mine. She actually was
the one who told me I needed to cancel. This
is segue. It's another thing that I'm gonna go off

(01:12:53):
on the air about. I went off about it on
social media, but I'm gonna go off on it online.
Long story, long of the short of it was, I
got a massage this week. The person who was giving
me a massage very If you want to see the
whole story, go to my Instagram and I'll talk about it.
But long, long, on the short of it is there
is the man who was giving me a massage. I

(01:13:13):
picked up very clearly who he voted for and how
he felt about me, not only just on vibes, but
by something I saw in the room. He had a
cup that had a sticker on it with a gun
and it says my right to use or something like that.
And FYI, the right was spelled wrong. It was spelled
r I g th H instead of HT.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
So my rife to youth.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
I don't even. Part of the reason why we are
where we are in this country is because people need education.
Niggas don't read, Niggas ain't going to school the way
they're supposed to, and that's how we got here. But
I want to what I want to say in this
moment along coming off of my my going off is
I I understand you work, like I understand people gotta work,

(01:14:03):
and I understand people need jobs. But you have made
a choice to work in a public place. So if
you're working for a public organization or a public entity,
leave those beliefs at home. That's that's literally where I'm at.
What I mean by that, and what I say about
that is that if you don't like Muslim people. But
yet you're or you don't like black people and you're

(01:14:25):
giving you you're working at massage envy. You need to
know that black people are gonna come in and book
with you. So if you don't like black people, you
need to go find a job where you don't have
to interact with black people. Okay, because it's a public,
public service, you know you. I know I'm not welcome
in Chick fil A. I'm not gonna go there in

(01:14:45):
order food. That's just not who I am. I also,
their food is nasty, but that's not either here nor there.
What I'm saying is you you you gotta know that
you work with the public. So don't have a problem
with me for being me, for spending my money with
an establishment, and you you have an issue with me
for who I am. I'm just I'm I'm really sick
of racism. I'm really sick of it all. I think

(01:15:07):
I think this year has really just I've seen the
worst in people. And I even said it and maybe
COVID it may just be this, this this regime we're
living under. I don't know what it is, but I'm
just sick of it. I'm really sick of it, joho.
And I know I've gone on long and you're probably
tired of hearing e bitch and moan, but I'm sick
of it. But anyway, what are your yes MAM's and
you're no man, PAMs.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
I first have to say I was laughing earlier because
I was looking at the were messing crash out and
someone was like, someone's like she has like over like
ninety stories. So the tweet the tweet was a tweet
is a picture of their messing is like one hundred stories,

(01:15:49):
and the tweet is she said for her and thirty.
First of all, thirty First of all, I was like
that fried me and I was like, to be that Madney,
to be that he is.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
Wild one hundred and ninety stories. Wow. Wow, it's a silence.

Speaker 2 (01:16:13):
Why like girl, But it's so so people were like
she's handy keeping stories alive or she's breaking Instagram like
with that. So I mean I just want to say, like, yeah,
I'm sad what a fall from grace she's had.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
Yeah, I see what you did there that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
I was like, oh I get now too, Yeah, like
like like just like it's just sad to see because
she's also she's been like a queer icon for so many,
so many years in some ways and like and now
she's like and now she's not. Yeah, but also like
so many people, so many people are the same plight

(01:17:03):
where they are an icon and then do some wild
ship that was sadnir, saddening, sadning. Okay, yeah, you know what.
So I'll just say say my yes, ma'm pam. Honestly, honestly, y'all,

(01:17:30):
I don't know, I don't have much to be yes
about today. I'm just I'm just happy to I'm just
happy to be here, I know, ma'am Pam. I will
say to the ad L and their Mom Donnie monitor.
So the ad L definition League, one of the largest
or Jewish organized Jews organizations, which I will say like
controversial organization for reasons. As part of the response to

(01:17:54):
what happened to the election, their national organization is doing
a mom Donnie monitor to make sure that he that's
what he says he'll do. And I'm like, okay, but
I doubt you would do a promo counter if it
was like right. And it's just like it's like it's
like it's like the singling out and I don't know,
I don't understand how they understand how that looks traumatic.

(01:18:15):
But video is not my favorite organization anyways, so real
that's I'm not most I can say. Most I can say. Anyways,
wrap this bitch up because my computer says my displace
is about to run out, so girl not dispas.

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
Okay, well, anyway, with that being said, please send us
your thoughts, feedback and the email to Blackfatfefpod at gmail
dot com. You can also send us your thoughts via
social media is by interacting with our posts on Instagram
and threads. By also going down to the youtubes and
leaving comments and doing all of the things. You can
find us all across your favorite socials by using the
handle Black fatfem Pod b LK Fatfempod. Queen Jojo Work

(01:18:54):
and the dolls find you this week as always, golled.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
That you can find me at Joho Janwn's across all socials,
my website JOm dannel dot com, or if not there,
you'll find me. It's for in my fresh fablet extents
because she's a fabrics men's promoter.

Speaker 1 (01:19:07):
Okay, how you doing? Yes, and you can find me
and details about my book about where I will be,
or how to book me, how to how to bring
me to your organization, honey, whether it be online or not.
How to work with me honey. You can find out
by going to ww dot doctor John Paul dot com.

(01:19:28):
You can also find me at doctor John Paul on
all socials. I am on Instagram, I am on Threads,
I am on TikTok, even though I don't want to
be on TikTok, I'm still on there putting out content
for you all to watch. Go buy the book. Also
watch my spot on ABC, Hulu, Our America, Who on
I Meant Who I Am Meant to Be. It is very,

(01:19:49):
very very inspirational, and it talks all about how this
show became what it is. I can't promote that enough.
We want to thank our super producer Joey pat for
making this shit pop every single week. And we want
to think iHeart Media for keeping us up on the
air because honey, let me tell you, yeah, it's rough
out here in these streets. It's rough, girl, It's rough,

(01:20:09):
and it's rough. So we think, thank you iHeart Media
for making sure that you keep keep our lights on.
You keep it. You're keeping us with the money in
the pockets. We also like to shout out on wonderful
editor Chris Rogers, because without him, we would have no
audio or no visio. Down to the tubes of you.
Head over to YouTube and watch last week's episode, watched
the week before that. Make sure, though, run those numbers up, honey,

(01:20:30):
run them up, run them up, you know, tell you,
tell your uncle, tell your auntie, tail somebody to go
watch our show. This has been another one. Stay black
fat famine fabulous and remember what yo hope.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
We may not be your cup of tea girl, but
that's okay. Nothing niggas a head with. Listen.

Speaker 1 (01:20:45):
Tell v A Yes, Yes, V eight is on sale
down to the supermarket. Y'all may need it. We love Tomato.
I don't like V eight, but I'm sure somebody out
there does. I love us for ree. Thank you for listening.
We'll see you next week.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
Bye bye,

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