Our Bodies Can Be Art (Featuring James Corbin)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to the BFF Blackfeffem podcasts on the iHeart
podcast Network. Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the
Blackfefion podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Where all the intersections of identity are celebrated.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
I am one of your hosts, John Oochi I had
a frog in my throat, also known as doctor John Paul,
And like you, I still find it to be very
unfair that I never got to see Prince Whitney or
Michael in concert.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
It's just it's rude. It's really rude.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
And then what really pisses me off is that Lutha
is not here either, so it just across the board.
I just be so upset. Sometimes I'd be looking around,
like that's some bullshit. I didn't get to see them
in concert at their greatest, and so sometimes I just
sit with that. Sometimes I just sit and just kind
of shake my head and be like, yeah, I never
got to see them in concert, and I'd be kind

(00:49):
of mad, and I'm like, you know what, when I
get up to the upper room to meet Big Sandals,
I'm gonna ask him and be like, what was that
down there? Why didn't I get to experience that kind
of joy?

Speaker 3 (01:01):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:01):
I know, I say the upper room, but it may
be the lower room because hot, hot hot, you.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Know this, Phoenix. But anyway, how are you queat joo?

Speaker 4 (01:15):
You know what?

Speaker 3 (01:15):
You know? What's funny? John?

Speaker 4 (01:16):
I was telling some friends yesterday about like I think
sometimes I wonder if really, if you ever one place
for too long, or if there's just like a metro
station is tation between the upper or lower room? Actually
like like like you know, like like when you want
to be good, you stay up there. When you want
to be bad, you go down down south and see
what and see what's good? Not the Spirit Airlines, brother, bankrupt,

(01:37):
don't call them, don't call spirited, don't go.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Go push you a spirit and seed you on down
the hell? Wouldn't that be a trip? My god, my god? Today?

Speaker 3 (01:46):
A trip? Quite babes.

Speaker 4 (01:50):
Yes, everyone, it's your girl, Jordan akh Jo and I
who I had to say it? But I think I
mentioned my season of yuk right now, I think like
all the time point towards ya, all the science point
towards I want Spirit Airlines too. A bad season's going
on right now, and I'm not I'm not prepared for
a humble reminder that I can be in my thirties

(02:11):
and still.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
Just be a baby.

Speaker 4 (02:12):
Yeah, babe, baby, Like, so, y'all pray for your girl please,
because it's rough in these streets.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
I'm feeling very h Jennifer Lewis.

Speaker 4 (02:19):
Right now when she's like, I don't nobody fucking with
me in these streets very much.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
I'm feeling very, very much good at the top of
the pandemic, honey. And you know what, the way it
is looking, we might be headed for another one. We
might was it the Hurtu virus?

Speaker 2 (02:36):
What's her name? Virus? Right? Is it haratu?

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Listen?

Speaker 4 (02:44):
I gave my life, and I gave, I gave, I
gave three years of my life, stayed up at home. Yeah,
I've given a million shots of vaccines. Do not do
this to me again. Yes, I do not think I'm
making mentally you know, sometimes I just if this happens,
you may find I wouldn't even say that you may
find me on the other side of I would never

(03:05):
be on the other side of this.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
No, no, no, you a denier.

Speaker 4 (03:09):
You would never be denied absolutely, yeah, sure never, But
I'd want to just some pistols.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, it's not fair. This ship ain't fair. No, it
is definitely given.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
This is a lot of This is a lot, you know,
to be living in this moment every day, I just
be looking around like I was. I was getting ready
this morning. I'll say this and then we're going to
enter our guests. I was getting ready this morning, I
was washing my face, putting my face on, and I said,
this is the most money that I've ever made my life,
and yet I am still struggling.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Ain't this some ship? Every time you think you take
a just take one step.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Every time the universe is like a bitch, go ahead
and stakes anywhere you are.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
And it's not. This ship ain't fair. This ship ain't fair.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
But anyway, what is fair is that we have an
amazing guest for you this week. You you know, are
in our third seat today is someone we hope that
y'all already know, and if you don't, we are honored
to put you on.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
We are joined by model turned artists, I know, that's right,
a British Kenyan Caribbean. And when you see, let me
tell you, the skin is skinning, the face is giving
all of the things. You definitely can tell they that
they don't shop down. Uh, they use they use all
of the goods Sophora products, but yes. He has been
profiled by the Guardian in Vogue to name a few,

(04:30):
and has worked with some incredible fashion names such as Valentino, Gucci,
mister Porter. I don't know what that is, but I
know it's high end and more. Stepping onto the music scene,
he released his first song alongside artist hell Zero, a
dance hit called Supreme.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
I say cover Girl, Why your face look like chalk?

Speaker 3 (04:51):
Please?

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Welcome to the show, James Corbin, how are you, my love?

Speaker 5 (04:57):
Thank you for the beautiful inter I'm very well, thank
you and grateful to be here.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yes, I'm so excited that you're here. Thank you for
accepting the invitations. We are definitely grateful, and we're going
to have a key today. So I'm really really excited
that you're here.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
Yes, it'd be so so good, and that we do
for our show by giving us to Campbell her flowers
and are still Here segment and in this week's still
Here segment with our good guests, I want to talk.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
I want I want to ask you all about some fashion.

Speaker 4 (05:25):
Knowing that the met Gala just passed and there was
part of two is dominating the theaters right now rightfully, So
let's discuss what's missing from fashion. What do we wish
for plus size fashion models and creators, what kind of
fashions we want to see on us. I'll start off
the past four guests and then to John now.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
First safe for me, I want to see.

Speaker 4 (05:47):
So I'm having some like feelings about the met Gala
this year. I'm gonna hat for a while, but this
year made a lot more, a lot more apparent. But
other of the day, like we're gonna talking, might feel
about the MET Gala mechanics. Like the experience itself, I
think is when I always find so interesting and I
want to see a metal experience for fat bodies. I
want to see how we can push designs to be

(06:09):
innovative for our bodies, right like I I want to
see I want to see how the fashion is art
concept applied to bigger bodies. I want all plus sized
fashion show, but with good fashion, right like I want.
I want cute company but stylish flows that fit our bodies.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
I want like I want lines. I want shapes. I don't.

Speaker 4 (06:28):
I don't want just the basic horizontal stripes or vercal stripes.
I want like I want the ship to be crisp
and good. I want to see how our bodies being
made can be made into our via fashion, like I think,
and I think it's missing. I think like I think
people just do not be thinking that that big bodies
can be like can be serving like this, But girl,
we can't.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Now.

Speaker 4 (06:47):
I want to see us give the experience that like
really like like that the world is missing.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
I want, I want, I want Getty to be like
gagging over us.

Speaker 4 (06:55):
Oh my god, let me get this and this and this, like,
let me see you post you give some some face.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
I want to see everything I want to see. I
want to see model classes for big bodies.

Speaker 4 (07:07):
I want, I want to I want, I want to
give instructions for how the big girls can walk, how
they compose, like I want to see the whole world. Yes,
the gamut exactly the gamut example. So that's that, That
is what I wish for us. James, how about you?

Speaker 5 (07:24):
Yes, yes, like we're at all time low. That carpet
yesterday had hardly any bigger buddies. Two people that did
stand out to me though, you've got to shout out
years old. She's like a friend. Yes, I'm singer. She's
so talented she was wearing the beautiful British designer Harris
Sweet and then Sam Smith. Of course they were wearing
their partner Christian Cohen, the New York designer British as well.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
They really stood out. But that being it is crazy.
I was like, yeah, this is it, this is it.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
That's literally.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
I was like, oh, okay, so they're gonna give us
two big bodies and call of to day.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
All right, okay, good good to know. That, good to know.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
But yeah, that's nuts to me, you know, I to
your point, joho, You know, I said, I struggle with fashion,
especially now, because like entertainment, it feels like everyone's regressing. Right,
We're seeing bigger bodies go back to being smaller bodies,
and we're seeing people, whether folks are saying it or not,
it's it's very much giving. I don't you know. I

(08:27):
never really liked my body. I just I was trying.
I was I was going through the process of trying
to like my body and I couldn't get there. So
I'm gonna go ahead and go back to being thin.
And It's it's just everything is is. It feels like
it's going back to fit and white and and and
I say that with the notion of the way people
gaw you know, and that's what I was saying about Lizzo.
You know, I people know that I've been sort of

(08:50):
vocal about how I feel about, you know, the whole
lizzle of it all, and just this notion of every
time people speak to her, it's always about her body.
It's never about her work, it's never about her talent,
it's never about you know, what she's been through in
the industry as a bigger body. It's always about this
idea of how much weight have you lost or how
much more weight do you want to lose. That's like
the most recent interview I've seen. And so it's it's

(09:12):
not lost on me that we would watch the met
and and not see big people on the carpet because
everyone is celebrating the the glp of it, you know,
of it all here specifically, And I don't know how
it is over where you are, James, but I know
here in America it is very much.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Everybody is talking about it.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
No matter where you go, you can't go anywhere without
seeing some type of promotion for GOLP. And so it
just it just you know it, you know, I just
keep saying that the people in power, they know what
they're doing, they know how they're doing it. And I
felt like, even with the met you know, watching it
and I know we're going to talk more about it
towards the end of the show, I just felt like

(09:52):
a lot was going on. But even it just a
lot of it just feels very forced. A lot of
it feels un original. I have my thoughts, Like I said,
I'm trying to save how I feel about that in
particular thing, but I just say in general, I just
don't feel like fashions are given fashion anymore.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
You know.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
It's like, how are you gonna have a fashion show
when there are no fashions?

Speaker 2 (10:10):
How dreadful?

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Like it just it nothing, There was nothing there, like
like even if there was a bigger body, I would
be like, I don't know, I don't know. I just
I just felt very let down, and I feel very
let down in general over a lot of these conversations,
especially the way that fashion's moving.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
I'm not I'll be transparencying. I'm not a fashion girl.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Like even watching devil Ware's Sprada, you know, everybody was like, oh,
it should be very updated and we should see more
and Nope. We didn't even see bigger bodies in Devilware's Prada.
You know, maybe we got what one or two glimpses
of a bigger body, but for the most part, it
was just it was all about the clothes, and it
was all about and had the way running around the street.
You know, I have I enjoyed the film, I will

(10:52):
say that, but I definitely have critiques. So but anyway,
that's neither him nor there. I'll go ahead and let
that be what it is. We need to get you
ready to become seamstresses. So with that being first, with
that being said, we're gonna take our first quick break
and when we come back, we're gonna have more with
James will be back in a second. And the category

(11:15):
is all right, y'all, So we are black and for
today's category is we are going to be talking about
the bodies, fashion and music, all the things.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
That you know. Honestly, I mean, even thinking about devil
Will's product.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Right that scene at the at the fashion show, there
would have been no way for that scene to have
thrived if it wasn't for Lady Gaga and the song
that she came up with for that and that in particular,
and you know woman, Yes she gave, she gave. I mean,
like I said, I did enjoy the film. I very
much went in with very low expectations, but I did

(11:50):
enjoy the film. But yeah, that scene in particular, I
was like that scene was lifted because of the music.
And so with that being said, I wanted to ask you, James,
when did you first realize that your body could be
a source of inspiration and art?

Speaker 2 (12:03):
Like how did you hold that with all.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
The stigmatization of normal or of bigger bodies?

Speaker 5 (12:12):
Being honest, I feel that the roads led me in
a direction that I didn't expect. Like I grew up
not appreciating my body, not valuing the body that I
was in. I got scouted by this photographer who was
doing a story for Vogue magazine and I spoke to

(12:34):
him and he said he had archived a photo he
saw me on Instagram and said, one day I want
to shoot this boy. And a year later I'd got
a call to go on set for Vogue Italia. I
come from a film and TV background in call it
as you guys call it in Uni call it Yeah.

(12:56):
I studied film and television production and as you know,
in the lockdown on all sets was pretty much closed.
So when it came through, a full was to help
out on set, and then when I arrived, I realized
it was for me to model. And at first I
felt like I was faking it. I'm not comfortable with
my skin, but I am posing here. But I got
to go on this journey of loving myself and helping

(13:20):
others love themselves too through my imagery, and I'd be
quite honest about it, and I think that's how I'm
here today and loving my body understanding fashion is a
place for us too.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
It's closed. We all wear clothes art, we are all
a part of our.

Speaker 5 (13:38):
Bodies are art and yeah, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here,
and it's not easy. There's days where I still look
in the mirror I don't feel my best, but always
remembering my purpose. And who's to say this isn't accepted,
you know, like fashion itself and even the media is

(13:59):
an industry that doesn't love our bodies and shows us
like shames us, like from Young we've seen and even
in the Devil Wears Broader there was even I.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
Watched her two.

Speaker 5 (14:08):
I was at the premiere last week and like I
don't know if you remember, but she made a comment
about like this this scene and she was.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
Like body negative.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
No, no, I got this body positive.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
Why.

Speaker 5 (14:25):
I was like why, Yeah, wasn't that so on par
with what's going on now and like everybody progressing because
there was like this little period where yes, inclusivity, plus
size models are bigger bodies and campaigns, and now it's
going right back down. So it's very very interesting and
it's okay for a comment like that to happen now

(14:46):
and maybe not a few years ago, but yeah, m
hm oh oh.

Speaker 4 (14:52):
I had so many thoughts about so many thoughts about that.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
As a little.

Speaker 4 (14:56):
Angel was shopping and I went to the store that
historically has been really plus size friendly, and like, I
won't I won't name the store because I.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
Want to go back to the store I love. I
love those girls.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Say the name and will beep it stay the day name.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
I went, I went, I went.

Speaker 4 (15:15):
I went to Okay, which, like tibically has up to
six X and stores. And as I was shopping, like
I could not find any of my size is like
I sit between like like a three to five X
in this in this store, like like two like two
or three.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
X on on on top like four to five X.

Speaker 4 (15:33):
On bottoms, and I was like, I was my friend,
and I was like, I was like, am I being
sized out of the store That is meant to be
like meant to in the titles.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
This which but where I was like the titles is big.
I was like, I don't understand what's happening.

Speaker 4 (15:47):
And I was so shocked because like I was like,
I was like, oh my god, Like I was like
they really fat people entirely because I could come to
this place for mashing. I could come to this place
and literally like always find several pieces. And I was
out here like scouring the the like scouring the the racks,
and I was like, why you have x xx you

(16:09):
have extra extra small, but you only got three or
four X. And and also also there's like there's this
jacket like that was like a gorgeous jacket. It was
a three X, but it was cut wrong, like it
was definitely a six X. Like like because I pulled
up another three acts the same jacket, different color, and
I said, why is this fitting better than this one?

(16:29):
It's the same exact jacket, different colors. This three X
is like way over like I'm like, you know, I'm like,
this is I was so shocked. I've never seen I
was like irresponsible, but I was like, I've never seen
like a body like my body so not as cared
for in this spanilaity left.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
It like oh my god, you know, and like like
even like even the.

Speaker 4 (16:51):
Like the people who are through we are so so sweet,
but they're also like straight sized people. And I was like,
I was like, where are the fat girls. I've always
come here and see back girls. Where the black girls?
I was like, you know, like with that with you know,
with with with uh with the closure of the plus
plus like it's just a totally sad but it's the
Henry hero there or the question I have for you.
But I just got to give a little rant because

(17:12):
if if if I'm being sized out of plus sized fashions,
I'm gonna riot, like I'm burning non institutions then.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
But James, I'm curious.

Speaker 4 (17:20):
Asked as a British Canyan Caribbean creative moving through UK
fashion and media, how would you describe the reality side
I ever seen body body liberation on the ground right now,
like not just on the runway, but in castings and
backstage and brand meetings right lately is a conversation much
like we saw random priestly saying, when you think about
the tabloids, value TV and even so called body positive

(17:43):
campaigns that we grew up seeing, I'm mostly curious how
have those images and narative shaped the way you see
your own body, your desirability.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
And you're right to take out space.

Speaker 4 (17:52):
So two big questions I'm a little different for me,
shout that I can repeat them if you.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Need to be too as well. Yeah, no, I might.

Speaker 5 (17:58):
I might get you to repeat to answer the first question. Obviously,
growing up and like seeing magazines, I was almost in
my subconscious walk past this. This is not for you,
like and that's just by not ever seeing someone that
looks as I am, and this whole notion of to
be fashionists, to be skinny, you know, have your dietary

(18:22):
things and relearning. Yeah yeah, ye, my God, and the
moments Jesus exactly. So I in my subconscious that is
not for you. That's not somewhere where you're going to
feel good, and I want to feel good. So everything
apart from that, and now I'm in that process of relearning,

(18:45):
and it's still like in the spaces that we're in
and castings and what not, And so it's a bad
place because even if inclusivity and bigger bodies are being introduced,
if everyone behind in the camera isn't reflecting that in visibility,
how are you going to relate with it. So it's

(19:07):
a lot of those conversations. Yes that it's quite conflicting,
and you're still even though the intention is there, whether
that's tokenistic or not is another question. You're still having
to teach people who are still trying to do a
sense of good. So there's been many times where my agent,
you know, they're like, we want James. You know, these

(19:29):
will be some of the hugest flection houses. It's not
about money. It's just a case of surely you can
fit in an Excel it's plus size, like you know,
they will have my measurements. I go to fittings, things
will not be there ready for me to wear. There's
sometimes a notion of you should be happy to be
here like this. You wouldn't exist a few years ago,

(19:52):
And it's having to stand up for myself. A lot
of the advocation I do isn't online, it isn't through interviews.
It's actually what happens on the around, what my agents,
what we have to stand on business and sometimes say
no to you where I would lose money, But it
means that we are standing on principle. So the next
person behind me who gets to walk in the industry

(20:12):
is walking someone that's fair and like you're having the
fair experience that your other colleagues the model experience get
to experience, not because your body is of a different
structure and your beauties of a different lens. Please repeat
the second question. Sarah got a bit in this.

Speaker 4 (20:28):
Yeah I will, but just I just a response to
the first part was just really really really powerful, so
thank you for that. The second question was when you
think about tabloids, reality TV, and even body parts of
the campaigns that you grew up seeing, how do those
images and naratives shape the way you see your own body,
your desire ability, in your right to take up.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
Space as in now or before?

Speaker 4 (20:55):
I would say how like like like how how I
say I did do it before to inform of how
you move now today?

Speaker 5 (21:05):
There's not been much to draw from apart from very
negative connotations. If I'm being not that I would have
given negative I.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
Mean, that's that's a Superbowl answer as well too to
say like there was actually nothing that gave me that
gave me inspiration, or like or how much of the
way ordership shape shaped you in in a negative way?
But it But it seems like I did also teach
you to to, as you said, advocate for yourself, you know,
in all the special that you're in now for me,

(21:33):
it's making it a level playing field. If if I
am seeing that you can do this, as in whatever
field you're in, if you can do this, I should
be able to do those things. If I qualify for that,
I should be able to work hard and receive those benefits,
reap those awards, And it shouldn't be any different if
my body is a bigger shape, So I advocate to

(21:55):
reach to that if sadly there's no examples that I
can truly see. This is when I'm following through because
it's not happened yet.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
Yeah, And I.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
Think there's a part of me as I'm listening to you,
there's a part of me that you know when you
were saying so I just want to say this on air.
I think I'm really sitting in your body, is you know?

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Is art?

Speaker 1 (22:15):
I know that you said that in the last you
know answer, But I'm thinking about it now, even to
the point of what you're saying, this notion of you
should be grateful that you're in the room. I think
there's still a lot of people, you know, and I
think about this all the time, you know, and I've
said this in so many different generations, but also like,
how many companies, how many businesses, how many different you know,

(22:37):
places would go out of business if you actively loved
yourself and pushed back, right, if you said, I'm not
going to give into the GLP one of it all.
I'm not going to give into this idea of starving
myself to death to fit into this outfit. Right, it
would it would make it very hard for the fashion
industry to actually have like it thrives on this notion
of I don't like the way I look, so let

(23:00):
me try to, let me try to mold myself into that.
And I think, you know, in a way, that's what
makes me so much of a fan of you and
your work is by you saying I'm not going to
I'm not going to let these people tell me that
I have to show up a certain way. I'm going
to show up the way I want to show up
and y'all need to adjust. And I think that's that,

(23:20):
Like you said, that's the activism of it, all right.
The activism isn't you being online screaming this company didn't
have this for me. It's you actively showing up every
single time and saying get your shit together, right, Like,
get your shit together, Carol, Like that's the thing that
we have to constantly keep telling people. And if you
don't know that reference, go watch Bridesmaid. But I'm just saying, like,

(23:41):
all of all, all in all of that, I think
that's such a I think that's a message that people
really need right now because I think everyone, and I
say everyone across the gamut, right, they're so the world
is telling us. And I say world not only just
in the UK, but also in the US. I see
I hear people talking about it in Asia? Are your
people talking about it in Africa? Like there's this worldly

(24:04):
notion of you have to fit the idea of white
supremacy and a lot of people are having a very
hard time with that when just five years ago it
felt like we were in what we're calling the body
positive movements.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
So yeah, yeah, I've got a question for you both.

Speaker 5 (24:21):
Actually, yeah, and you know you're both bigger bodies and
telling a different story through your podcast. I'm pretty sure
and deal with iHeartRadio. Yeah, are you underestimated by your
colleagues and by other you know, I'm sure where you've
pitched before. I know you don't have to answer, but
I'm sure what we're talking about is things that you
both have faced and by looks in your faces. Yes,

(24:45):
but if you can talk about that, how how have
you both stood through this? Because I'm sure you have
to doubly prove yourself. You have the talent, you have
the charisma, you have the personalities to run this platform
and bring something that isn't hair. But I'm pretty sure
you're made to feed us less. So I'd love to
love to tell your thoughts on that and your experiences.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
Go ahead, Joe, go ahead, you can start.

Speaker 4 (25:08):
You know, John, this is you know you had the idea,
so please you take it, and you.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Know, well you know, so I will say this.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
You know, I know we've been on the We've been
on the air for almost five years at this point,
and actually it hasn't been longer.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
We started almost.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Twenty twenty one, and I will say that, you know,
I know our show, we've had, including yourself, we've had
some really heavy hitters on this show, and you you
would think, you know that the response would be, wow,
you know, look what they're doing over at the Black
Fat Fem podcast, right like, look what they're doing.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Look what they've been able to do. And it doesn't happen.
It doesn't happen.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
And I and I will say that, I don't think
that that is, you know, I don't want this to
come across as shade to iHeart because I think you know,
a lot of black you know podcast a lot of
you know, black.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Fat podcast but queer podcasts.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
I think we're all trying to figure out how to
navigate systems that weren't built for us. But what I
will say is this, there are a lot of people,
even outside of BFF, that underestimate me. Again, I can't
speak for JOHO, but I say me in the sense of,
you know, I just I just posted something about mail robins,
you know, the other day on threads. I said, you know,

(26:25):
I want to make it very clear that I wasn't
coming for mail robins. But what I'm what I what
I am coming for is the system that puts Mail
Robin up on a pedestal because she is a white,
skinny woman, right, she is the ideal of what the
world wants to see and wants to hear. And so
when you get someone like me who has who has

(26:47):
three degrees, has won several awards, I mean I was
given and again I'm popping my ship right now. But
at the same time, I also have done the work
to get those awards. I also want to make sure
I name that. But when you have a school giving
you the Centennial Award for the excellence in the way
you teach and the excellence and the way you do
your research, I know my shit, right, Like, I know

(27:09):
what I'm talking about. I'm not just somebody who turns
on a mic and just you know, says whatever they
want to say. I've done the research to back the
work that I'm doing, both on the mic and off.
And so when you see someone like Amel Robbins who's
getting all of these accolades, right, and you think to yourself, well,
what the fuck am I doing wrong?

Speaker 2 (27:27):
Right?

Speaker 1 (27:27):
What am I doing wrong to not have a brand
or a company reach out to me and say, hey,
we want to bring you in so we can do
some work with you.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
To make our product better.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
You start to second guess yourself a lot, and so
I think that the thing that I've had to say
a lot to myself these last couple of weeks, specifically
these last couple of weeks, because Baby, I was almost
out of it a couple of months ago.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
Honey, I almost. I almost said, I won't, I'm done.
I can't do this no more.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
But what I will say is, in the last couple
of weeks, I've had to say, the people who need
to see you and need to hear from you are
going to see and hear from you. That has to
be enough. I can't keep focusing on the people who
don't see it for me, because then it makes it
very hard for me to do the work that I
need to do for the people who needs to see
it for me. So if it means that there's only you,

(28:11):
know and again, I'm not I'm really trying not to
shit on our show, or shit on iHeart, or even
shit on the other bigger shows on the network. There
are some really big shows on the network that support
us and have supported us. Shout out to the Daily
es Eye guys like those guys continue to support Black
Fat fam and I love Jack and I love Miles
for the love that they continue to give me. But

(28:32):
what I'm saying is I have to focus on the
and I say we, I say we collectively have to
focus on the people who love and see us in
this moment, because if we don't, we're gonna burn ourselves out.

Speaker 4 (28:44):
You know, you know, I love, I love And a
guest has questions for us, Yes, yeah, I love the
reals questions as well too.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
I think I think, I think.

Speaker 4 (28:54):
The way I think about it is really contextualized is
that we are like we are we're we're a niche show.
But I like, I don't, I don't agree with that statement,
like like like I don't think black fat femins are niche.
I think actually, like we resent a big part of
the world and we are the world, and so it's

(29:17):
so I think it's interesting. I think I think the
like the like under the underestimation of us is like
like is that is that maybe we're too specific, but
we also reach and discuss the community population that that
just that just isn't always given the flowers deserves or
given or always given like space deserves to to really
take up or to be celebrated. I think, I think

(29:41):
what's I find interesting about our show comparison to other
shows is is our reception to others, Like we had
a we like oftentimes in several like platforms, like we
have a lot of the negative reviews with the reviews
are really are literally like these two fat bitches are
glorifying obility, or these two black bitches are being like

(30:02):
like that, right, like like it's really shallow and horrible stuff, right,
but like it's stuff actually has going to do with
the content. And I think what makes us different is
that I think I think there are a law of
shows out there, like in the pod sphere that I
think that either tackle fatness, like or quickness or blackness,
but not maning to do it all three together.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
And so this is like kind of like a like
I think we exist as kind of like a.

Speaker 4 (30:28):
But like I see it as like a like a
trifecta of showing how beautiful intersectionality can be. But I
think to some it's a trifective everything that everything that
they feel what's wrong with the world. And so we
are kind of like like I think we're targeted for
that and that makes me like sad. But I think,
you know, and also like like me, like me and
John are allowed, are allowed personalities the world were. We're

(30:49):
big people in personality. We have a lot of strong
opinions and intakes. And I think also I think sometimes
I think we I think we discuss things that people
don't always want to talk about, Like I think they
see its like why would you.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
Harp on that?

Speaker 4 (31:02):
But like but like if if the world was better,
we wouldn't have to harp on.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
In the worst place.

Speaker 4 (31:06):
And so I you know, like I think like people,
I think we focus, to your point, John, on a
lot of like root issues, and we have a lot
of root discussions. And I think folks just want to
discuss symptoms and not always cause it. AND's why I
think I think, like so, I think people underestmate us
in that way because like like like like they aren't
seeing what we're actually doing.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
But I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (31:28):
Like like I love, love love what we do. I
think we do. I think we do such. I think
I think we do such great work. And I think, yeah,
I think I think we deal with we deal with
being underestmated all the time. But I be, but I
think like much like you, James, like we we aren't.
We actually aren't seeking galidation. We evalidate ourselves with the

(31:48):
work that we do because like we know and see
the impact it definitely has. Like yes, we like we
may not have like thousands of listeners, like thous tends
of thousands love listeners, but like when I get the
three people who message meet and say they feel so
changed by the work that we do, like that is
most important to me. Like I like like like I
don't always I don't personally always need the end mass response.

(32:11):
I would love it right, like I would love it
because of the day, Like that's also a business.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
I want the numbers to reflect though that we do.

Speaker 4 (32:17):
But seeing you know, like just the one person who's like,
there's me before the show and me after the show.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
Yeah, I take up.

Speaker 4 (32:25):
Space now because of because I'm right to know that,
but that this show in some part helps some feel
liberate themselves.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
Uh, like I had them.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
I had that moment just Sunday, you know, and I
promise we're going to get back to the interview.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
But I will say, like to your.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Point, both you know, Joho and and and James like
I had a moment this Sunday where I was doing
an event. Shout out to the folks who allowed me
to interview a loak. But I did an interview where
I got to interview a Looak and at the end
of the you know, and again this is a very
very happenstance thing. I was just I happen to be
there to help. They said, can you host it? I said, sure,

(33:02):
I did it. You know, I come off the stage
and I'm thinking people are gonna say, oh, that was
a great interview, and the person actually came up to
me and said, hey, I just started listening to your
podcast and I just want to say thank you. And
it was a very it was a very just kind
of like I'm out in a while, you know, just
living my life being big, fat and loud on the stage,
and someone came up to me and was just like,
you have no idea how much your show and just

(33:24):
in the few episodes I've listened to because I just started,
have really helped me. And so I think that's the
thing that I hold on to more than anything. You know,
when we get the negative comments, when we get the
people who you know, I get people who troll me
all day on social media because I'm just very I
have no other choice but to be confident. That's how
I have to put it, like, we have no choice
but to be confident, and because we're loud, because we

(33:47):
are proud of who we are, because we are confident.
I think a lot of people think we're supposed to
shrink ourselves, like they want us to shrink. And because
how dare you? How dare you like yourself? I think
that's the thing. I get a lot of so many
different iterations, but what I will say is it always
means so much to me when that one person comes
up to me and says, You've changed my perspective, You've

(34:09):
helped me with this thing. You gave me the words
to this feeling I've had that I didn't know what.
And that's what I hope this show will always be.
I want folks to come to the show and say,
there was something I had a feeling about and I
didn't know how to say it, and you and Joe
Ho said it exactly the way I need it needed
to be said, and now I feel okay enough to

(34:29):
actually put words behind. So, yeah, just giving folks a voice,
But yeah, where were we?

Speaker 5 (34:35):
I guess And I won't spend too long on this.
I just want to say no, big kudos to both
yourselves the Black Fat Fem podcast, because what you guys
are doing are you know, it's breaking. You're doing more
than you realize, especially for what's ahead of us. And
thank you for shedding the light on what goes on

(34:57):
on the back end, because for those who are listening
and those who are fans of the podcast, I'm pretty
sure they may not be aware of the internal battles
that you both have to go through. How much advocation
you do to be here talking to us all, and
you know the team and the back end as well.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
It's very parallel to what I face in fashion.

Speaker 5 (35:18):
Some things we can come up with ideas we can
be as talented so that I can have come the
way that the media is set up in the world,
these institutions have to in some sense accept us sometimes
and thank god there's social media where we can build
our own platforms and blow ourselves and create our own
platforms and what we are doing. But in some sense

(35:39):
to be given opportunities like to even tend in you know,
events like the met Gala, we have to be accepted
by these institutions. And while the I think it's important
we have these conversations on air in public for those
who may not even understand what it is that we
face to even be able to be here and have
these conversations, because it will be cited in these meetings

(36:03):
of the big wigs of these big networks for them
to understand what value these platforms and people do you have?

Speaker 3 (36:09):
So thank you, Thank you guys.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, And I will say this before we get to
the culture creation of it all.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
I will say, you.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Know, at one point was just kind of like, you know,
no one's seeing it. No one's seeing it for me,
and no one's seeing it for us. But you know,
I always kind of go back to this idea that
and I said this in an interview yesterday.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
You may not see it for us, but God does.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
So That's the thing I have to constantly remind myself
is that I feel like in these days, I feel
like I've been ordained almost to be given the platform
that I have. I mean the fact that just in
the last few days, I'm now close to twenty thousand
followers on threads. Something I'm saying, something I'm doing obviously,
is making an impact somewhere enough for people to say,

(36:55):
I want to follow that person, because right now it's dark.
It's really dark, and that's the I have to keep
telling myself too, like it's not just dark for me,
it's dark for everybody, and we've got to collectively be
in community with one another in this moment. So yes,
you know, I can. I can talk about the BS
till the cows come home. But my biggest thing right
now is being in community with people and reminding them

(37:16):
that we got us. And that's literally all I'm concerned
about right now. I only care about black, fat fem people,
right Like, yes, I care about you know, the issues
with you know, LATINX folks and all, but my my
core concern right now is making sure that my people,
black fat queer people feel okay in this moment, and
then I can work to help other people in other

(37:37):
communities as well, like I'm gonna do to work, But
my biggest concern right now is making sure that we
got us. And that's what this show is, what this
show is, and what this show will continue to be.
So with that being said, I think one of the
things that I would love to ask you. I'm gonna
try to figure out a way to kind of like
melt this in and then joho, you can ask the
last question and then we can go off into the
next segment. But I was gonna say culture curation in music.

(38:02):
I would love to know I could literally read both
of these, but it'll take a lot, It'll take a
long time. So what I was going to say is,
you know, I see you as a cultural curator, and
I know that a lot of what we're seeing in
this world is very commodified and recycled, even in music,
And so I guess what I would love to ask
you is is how are you finding the new in

(38:25):
the culture curation of it all? But also how are
you finding the new in music? Like how are you
making yourself stand out? Oh?

Speaker 5 (38:34):
Okay, So in the cultural creation, I'd say it's when
I sort of stepped out of the role that I
was given as a model and chose to learn the
other roles to understand how we can move this forward. So,
whether that's politely suggesting things to the stylist, the head

(38:56):
of things, doing my research how to be a great
and better mode, or what other concepts happening. Can I
pitch things and I started to do be audacious and
do so and that's where I stepped into that role.
I speak to brands after doing a campaign and give
them notes. So it's shocking and surprising in the back end,

(39:17):
but eventually, when knocking on these doors, they open and
that's how you know, change, like that cultural change because
it's like a lot of my experience. I come from
a you know, area in South London called Brixton. I
don't know if you guys are familiar over in the
UK in London, right, and that's a big part of
my culture. I'm not from, you know, a clean cut background.

Speaker 4 (39:41):
You know.

Speaker 5 (39:41):
I grew up seeing a lot of different things. They
grew up wealthy, and that's part of my experience. And
when we are telling some of these black stories, I
want that identity in there. I want it to be raw,
I want it to be shown and I want that
and I think that's part of the cultural creation side
of things being tapped in. You can't create something that's
not from an authentic place, and I'm always pushing for

(40:02):
brandons to do that. Answering the second part of your
question and music, I'm new to the space recently with
you know my I'm a feature on a song with
Hell Zero. It's like an Afro house is a dance song.
It's like for the dance floor for sure. The lyrics
in itself is all about self affirmations. It's literally like
a soundtrack to what I am living. The lyric the

(40:24):
main hook line is I am Supreme. It's some of
the words that you have to tell yourself in your
head and you look in the mirror before you leave
your house. When you go in that set, you've got
to stand knowing you are the Ish before others tell
you you're the Ish, or else you're not going to
believe it. So yeah, it's standing out for myself within
myself and in my identity and knowing like I have

(40:45):
my own ideas and as audacious as it can be.
It's what's going to make me stand up from the others.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
Okay, I have this big task right now. You're two big,
two big questions, and so in real time I have
to do do some wizardry.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
And try and make into one.

Speaker 4 (41:04):
So work, work with me, walk alongside me and James
as we do this, because I I want to sit
with Supreme like it really is fun and I love
the name is a you know, it's after house, afro pop,
very my power beyond.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
The energy, Like, I really really really love it a lot.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
It's like I I have, I have, I I had
to like to like my like like my like my
like morning playlist that that I do often thank you
for it. I want to know, like like, Okay. So
the the dual prong with this love me a dual
prong question. You will never get simple with me. I'm
so sorry, boo. But take us like through the process

(41:42):
of like of like making the track, particularly like what
made you think? So the first part of the question
is like you talk about the personal or political moment
that made you say, okay, now is the time to
release this into the world.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
And then knowing that.

Speaker 4 (41:58):
The song where it's coming from a from a bigger
black body that the world is used to policing or
sidelining like and thinking like like for you know, for
our listeners who are often you know, fat black queer folks,
like how but what do you hope that this song
shifts some people's relationship with their bodies and their right
to be seen?

Speaker 5 (42:19):
Right? So I'll start off with a small anecdote so
that it makes sense as to how you're hair with
a song so similar to how my journey in fashion started,
where it found me in a way, music also found me.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
Hail Zero.

Speaker 5 (42:34):
They are like a DJ group. I call them like
the future Black Calvin Harris. They're three brothers. Enough from
South London, Yeah, Ed yes, coming South London. The editor
of Vogue is a big advocate of these three guys
and like they work behind the scenes as producers and
now they're stepping forward as artists. And they were creating

(42:57):
their first ever soundtrack with lots of big names from
or name for them, but much bigger than myself. And
they played me a demo of this song and at
first was just a hook and they were like, James,
we don't know if you have any musical background, but
we hare you on this, we visure you on this.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
And I said, bet, let's record this.

Speaker 5 (43:16):
I wrote a verse and the way I perceive the song,
it's all about self informations. It's saying like literally, like
from a biblical point of view, like like I am
supreme straight from above, like I'm dripping in gold, like
and in all senses, like i am who I am,
and like I am in the body I am dripping
in gold, like I should be dressed well, literally, I'm

(43:39):
a firm I shall be dressed up with what's never
on this set. And I wrote this verse and it's
a bit like pop it, like I'm told not to
pop it. I'm told to sort of like be grateful
to be here, do everything opposite. And I was like,
for the visuals of this, it has to be audacious.
It has to look so clean and the energy of
others to feel when they listen to it. Not that

(44:01):
they have to share the same body as me, but
they should be able to listen to powered. If they're
the gym, they should be running that the extra hard
and knowing that they're speaking life and to themselves. And
you know, that's my first ever song and we're working
on new music and oh yeah, look, I wanted to
dance and move like we're not to do these things.

(44:21):
So I'm like, let's do it all. Like we perform
this for the first time in one of the ten
magazine launch parties in London Fashion Week, if we didn't
tell anybody, and the people were up and up and
with it. You know, oh I was moving, I'm looking
at it.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Hey, Hey, yes, I was moving, and I will be
playing it today as I drive around and run my
errands because it is a b I don't nobody it
is a bar. I'm not I'm not gonna hold you.
I'm not saying this because you are a guest. Afrobeast
is definitely in like my cannon of things I love
these days.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
And that song when as soon.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
As it comes on, I said, oh this hits, I said,
this is definitely that song, So yes, it hits.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 5 (45:04):
And I'm hoping one day that my goal is that
this plays on a runway and I would love to
perform in live.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
Yeah, yeah, I see that.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
And I you know what, I've been real big on
telling the universe, which you won't so you can get it.
This is you putting that out into the universe is
definitely something that I hope that I see it for
I will.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
I will say this.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
I think the biggest thing is to we need me
and not just you as a person, but we need
this creativity in this moment. We need messages like you
are supreme right now because I think so many of
us don't feel that. So many of us don't feel,
you know, like we are the girls and even with
all that we've done, a lot of the girls are

(45:45):
not feeling like they're that girl. And this music and
the work that you're doing is reminding us like, yes,
you have a right to be the person you are,
the girl you think you are. That's literally what I
was trying to say. I have a quick question before
we go to break. I have one quick question and
the jojo author to you so we can go to break.
I want to know my husband doesn't believe that this

(46:07):
is a thing. But do people in the UK say
no behavior?

Speaker 2 (46:12):
Is that like that?

Speaker 1 (46:13):
A like when I ride with Hannah on I'm just
asking this and this can get cut out of the show,
Chris if you want to cut it out, but I
want to ask this question before while I have you.
So when I ride on my peloton, I ride with
someone named Hannah and she often says we're about to
get on no behavior. I'm on no behavior today, babe,
I'm on no behavior. And so when I say that,

(46:34):
my husband's like, that's not a UK thing, that's not and.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
I'm like, yes, Hannah says no behavior all the time.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
She says that, like, so no behavior, basically saying she's
about to get wild that she's about to ride the
bike like she's never ridden the bike before. But that's
what the contact is. And he doesn't believe it's a
UK thing. But I hear Hannah say it all the time, and.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
I believe it's a thing. Is it?

Speaker 3 (46:55):
Do people in the UKFA?

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Yes, it's.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Yeah, baby, Okay, yeah, no, behavior is Okay. Her dad
is Jamaican, so that makes a lot of sense. Okay, okay,
that actually makes a lot of sense of why she
says that. Okay, got it, but okay, okay. I just
wanted to ask. I was like, I have to ask somebody.

Speaker 4 (47:18):
No one says that. No one says that, babe, No
one says that. And I'm like, oh no, no.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
So thank you, thank you. Prefer me and confirm me.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yes, affirming and confirming. That's what we do here. We
like to confirm and affirm. I know that's right.

Speaker 4 (47:35):
Now that we got y'all in the Supreme all to
have some sour cream, We're gonna take a quick break
and come back with what's popping and entertainment and just.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Say, oh girl, what's popping? All right, y'all, we are back.
Oh lord, I thought I was gonna have egg on
my face.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
And for this What's Popping segment, we wanted to unpack
the MET Gala. We can't be talking about looks, honey
and not have the literally the Queen of the runway
here for us to be talking about, you know, all things,
and then not talk about the MET Gala. So we
gonna give our two cents about the MET Gala. I
just wanted to say before I give it to y'all.

(48:15):
I hated it. I hated all of it. I thought
there was no direction. People came, they looked people just
people look like they just got like they like I
want to be wowed, Like nothing wowed me, like even Beyonce.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
I hated Beyonce's look. I hated it.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
I'm not above saying my queen did not look her best.
I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
I just did not. I didn't enjoy anything. I don't know.
There's just something about this year.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
There's maybe and maybe I'll say this, maybe it was
the advocacy in me being like, how are these people
celebrating in a moment when so many of us can't
afford to eat, so many of us can't afford gas,
so many of us can barely afford to pay.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Our rent, but yet y'all are all.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
So maybe that was a part of the and why
I was like checked out of the Metcala this year.
But also it just felt very recycled, like there are
two looks, and like you said, Yasolt and Janelle Money
were the only two looks that made me gag. There
were a couple that I said, Okay, maybe if they
would have just stumped, like even if like what was
what is her name? Ozaka? Naomi Ozaka? Like I was

(49:21):
loved and I know she has the money to do it.
The little feathers that she had on her jacket, if
those feathers were actually like butterflies and they were moving,
like if they were moving and you know, and she
took her hat off and there was like a more
of it. But it just felt like every even the
reveals that people were doing, they were.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
All let downs. To me.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
I was like, so, girl, you're gonna take that jacket
off and it ain't nothing under that. They'd be like, wow,
you literally gave me nothing with that reveal. Like literally, Naomi,
I was like, girl, what where is the reveal?

Speaker 2 (49:55):
It's a cute dress, but where is the reveal? Girl?
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
I just I wasn't feeling it this and again maybe
me being in my feelings about looking at my bank
account and seeing these people on these stairs and knowing
damn well that around the corner there were people protesting it.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
I don't know. But anyway, James, what was your thoughts
on on the met galer this year?

Speaker 3 (50:14):
No, Yeah, it wasn't the best.

Speaker 5 (50:16):
I think when I heard the theme was the body
is art, Like, there's so much and so many places
this could have went. And again yes, there was like
lots of like older pieces and pieces that wasn't made
from scratch, and not everybody caught the grasp with it.
I you know, I saw you was a fan of
the Beyonce skeleton dress, but some some did get it.

(50:40):
But yes, like it wasn't it wasn't the best it
could have been. It wasn't the best it could have been.

Speaker 4 (50:45):
Yeah, I just m like, I feel like I feel
like there's some moments this is like cutting corners.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
I feel like I feel like I feel like we're
missing some.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Fabric thrown together, like it was thrown together.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
It's like we're trying.

Speaker 4 (51:06):
To be scrappy, and I think to the point where
like like like the like the theme was the thing
that people like, like I want to see someone come
out in the Last Supper.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
I want to see.

Speaker 4 (51:15):
Someone come out giving me like like giving me, giving
me Van go right, like like I think that would
be really interesting stuff, you know. I think like my
tops for sure were genem one says, and Amy sherld
it may show because not not because it's like great,
but she referenced I mean because I was like, oh,
this is amazing because she referenced herself, and I live

(51:37):
for that, like she is honest herself, So she referenced
her own art. I'm like, that's that, that's that's this
icon behavior. And I think I think I think Gemline's
blend of nature and tech was just like just like
really fascinating, right, Like I love that it wasn't it
wasn't likely referencing art peace, but like how like like
like like there's a convergence of art and of of
nature and tech as art. And I thought that was

(51:58):
really interesting. I think, says looked really gorgeous. I also
really loved, really love Oh but we're to meet with
black folks and I won't I won't say her because
it was rude, but she's not black.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
I won't be saying it.

Speaker 4 (52:08):
But yeah, so I think, but I think, like I
think I too, John been sitting with this idea of
like what do I think about the met Gala at present?
You know, like but like but like like take take
out the basis of it all because I believe that
I believe like I've had issues with it for quite
a few years.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
I think like I've tuned out of it.

Speaker 4 (52:27):
I tuned in last year when because they think last
year they did the black the black dandyism. I loved,
love love that, Like I feel like that was like
like that was like a really great a really great
year in great season. And I think the demonstrats right
like like like when it's a black theme, people like
people show out on theme, not not everyone wants to
show it on theme for this, but I do think,
like I I to struggle with the adoration of a

(52:50):
program that celebrities elitism, like I like, I love fashion,
you know, and I think, I mean, I'll tek about
a lot about that a lot in the context the
Dovil the worst product, because I think right in the
the movie itself is the theme of the movie is
about right, like preservation of culture and art and fashion
and tradition in a world full of growing technology and

(53:11):
AI right, and no stream makes this point about like
commitment to beauty and standard, and I think and probably
like it's like yes, but also like who is gatekeeper
of that beauty and standard? Who is gatekeeper of what
taste is? And I write and so I think things
things that led the met college just continue one to

(53:32):
take to name who right the other day right, it's
put on by by an Win tour and the Vogue team,
And so she is saying that she is the one
who gets to decide taste. And sometimes I'm like, like,
what if we had new people. New people doesn't decide
taste for us, but if we all could decide our
own taste.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
I mean, ma'am, you guys been saying bob for the
last fifty years, Like come on now, well I'm just
saying you not touching the bob though.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
The bob the I mean, the bob.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Is bobbing, not trying to couple check. Oh god, the.

Speaker 3 (54:07):
Bob is bob regardless.

Speaker 4 (54:09):
But but like, but I think there's a point where
of like right, like like like like like I get tradition,
But I do wonder can we like can we can
we can we evolve traditional tradition be more inclusive of
can yeah?

Speaker 3 (54:23):
Like we just can we do something else here with James?
Did you do you have anything you want to add?
Just from that, from that.

Speaker 5 (54:30):
Face bomb moment, know that there's a lot of room
for improvement. And I think the more that they are
inclusive with the talent that they have on that net
guard of the better that it's going to look.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
And I think I think that that exactly what it is.

Speaker 4 (54:50):
It's like I wish people would realize that like that,
like like it's like like it's not like it's not
it's not just criticual the sake of critiques. It's a
critique of the sake of if you actually were inclusive,
it actually would look amazing, like people would like people
would actually weally love bit more and we could see
we could see how we all can be art in
this way, like we all can be art and provide

(55:13):
like for like like we we're all worthy of being
feeling adorned.

Speaker 3 (55:18):
And I and I wish I thought was celebrating more.

Speaker 4 (55:21):
Okay, fam we gotta take one more water break to
dowage our faces, make sure we look good, crisp and
clean for the day when we come babbing into this
week's yes ma'am and no Ma'm pam, Yes ma'am.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Oh no man Pam.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
All right, y'all, so we are back with y'all's favorite segment.
This is when this is yes, yes, ma'am and no
Man Pam. You would think we'll meet and doing this
for almost two hundred episodes and I would get this right.
But anyway, this is the segment where we either give
people of their flowers or we hit them with them.
And this week, I will truly say I every week
I say mine are sure, and they never are short.

(56:01):
So I'm not gonna say that mine are short. I'm
just gonna say what I need to say. So this
week for my yes ma'am, I definitely wanted to give
it up to the Michael movie.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
I want to say.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
We had had a whole conversation about wanting to do
a whole episode around this movie, and I just don't.
I don't know if we necessarily need to do it,
because I think ultimately everyone has given this movie the
flowers it deserves. I will I will say this was
the Michael movie Grade No. As a critic, there were
a lot of critiques that I had as someone who

(56:31):
has studied television and film, and I'm sure same thing
for you, James. I'm sure if you've seen it, you
probably had a lot of critiques in regards to the
actual film.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Was it fun?

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Apps a fucking lutely? And what I mean by that
is is I can I can separate the two. I
can say there's a creativity piece that I want a critique,
but did it speak to the fans? Did it speak
to the people who loved Michael aps fucking lutely? And
I can't wait for the second one? I just it
just it did everything it needed to do. I mean,
he embodied Michael. The gentleman who played him Jaffar, Right,

(57:07):
it's his name, Jaffar.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
I know, it'says nephew.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
He embodied Michael, even at there were points in the
movie where I was like, damn. He studied the hell
out of Michael for this in particular part. I mean,
I even think about the scene when he was practicing
for was it bad or was it thriller?

Speaker 2 (57:24):
It was one of them.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
It was one of those scenes when he was practicing
for either one of those, and I was like, God,
he really nailed how locked in Michael was to the
choreography and to the music and to everything. So I
just want to say as a fan, I love the film,
can't wait for the second one. As a critic, yes,
the script could have been better. They could have done
something different to Joe Jackson's nose. They are all of

(57:47):
these things that I saw that I was like, I
don't know how I feel about this, but it was fun.
So I will say that when it does come out
to DV look at me DVD, when it comes out
to streaming, I will definitely be downloading it because I
want to watch it again.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
I'm my no man, Pam.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
So this is I really don't want to give away
too much information. I joho, if you want to know
what this, what this is about, I will tell you
about it, and I'll tell you about it off air.
I don't want everybody in a business. What I cannot
stand is bait and switch. Do not bait and switch me.
And I know, I know it's hard for me to

(58:25):
talk about it without talking about it. What I say is,
don't tell me one thing, and then I come back
and it's something else. It is literally the quickest way
to lose my business as a customer. If if be
be upfront with me, literally, especially if I'm about to drop,
like if I'm about to drop a lot of money,
Please be real with me. Don't don't play in my face,

(58:47):
and especially if I find out, because I'm I'm gonna go,
I'm gonna come back and I'm going to Hey, so
you said this thing and someone over there told me
something else. Why did you say that? Because I'm that girl.
I'm not that girl that's gonna do the whole Oh,
you know what's fine. No, I'm going I'm gonna come

(59:07):
back and I'm.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
Gonna call you out. Why did you say that? If
you knew it wasn't true?

Speaker 1 (59:11):
Girl, if you knew it was not the right thing.
Why why did you tell me it was raining outside
but it's actually snowing. I got to go get a
snow coat and now I'm out here cold and I
look stupid because you lied to me.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
That That's literally where I can't stand it.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
That is literally, if there's one thing that grinds my gears,
it's bait and switch.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
I can't ooh.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
It literally is The thing that literally takes me out
of my skin is when someone tells me one thing
and I go somewhere else and it's something else. I
can't do it. That is literally how you can get
me to cush you out is knowing that you lied
to me to my face when I asked you to
be real with me about something. So anyway, before I
get even more mad, James, what is your yes ma'am's

(01:00:02):
or your no mams for this week?

Speaker 5 (01:00:06):
My my yes ma'am this week, I would say.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
You, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
Wait, can you come back to me? Can you come
back to me? Yeah? We can.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
We can circle back. We can circle back. It's cool.
Go ahead, go ahead, Jordan, and then we'll circle back
to the guests.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
Okay, okay, so okay, my yes ma'am.

Speaker 4 (01:00:31):
My first was gonna be the devil to you. And
now I'm like stuggling because I'm like, do I believe
it this way? I mean, I'll say with them, say.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Can I do something? I know?

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
I hate to cut you off if you're gonna do
devil worst product, I'm here for the was is she Indian?

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
What? What nationality is that? Baby?

Speaker 6 (01:00:52):
Someone that's the bed bitch that she ever movie, Like
I said, every scene she was in, I said, I know,
that's damn right for me.

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
I love Ashley.

Speaker 4 (01:01:08):
She was in Bridgerton as well. She's several things, but
she was in bridgeton season three. I believe it was
two one with one with Jonathan Bailey his season and
like she was phenomenal. So to see but to see
her like to see her range from like pure like
drama right period piece to like this like sassy gen
z the sasts millennial like assistant with the fashion is amazing,

(01:01:33):
like skin, untouchable, body stupid like I was just like
girl like just giving me everything.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Yeah, she's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
I really.

Speaker 4 (01:01:40):
I feel like for a sequel, I would say this
it was a great sequel, Like there are not many
good sequels. It was a I always a fantastic sequel,
had very smart nodded the first film. I love the
continuity of them keeping like like the like the transition
music the same, an updated version.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
Right. There are some touches that are really really really
good and I love that a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:02:01):
I think like I think it showed like a big
growth in all the characters.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
I think there's a great character development.

Speaker 4 (01:02:08):
I think right, like showing Andy Andy sacks her character
or have this character like found like a level of
comfort with fashion.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:02:16):
I thought her abs really cute. I was just like
grown a lot. I think some people were like mad
that mad, Like Miranda wasn't the same Miranda she was.
I'm like, what's been twenty years, girl, so who would
be the same. And I think there's a lot of
I think this movie had a point of view that
the first movie did not have. But the first movie
was really about like it was. The point of view
was fashion and celebration of fashion, you know, and like

(01:02:37):
and right, And I think there's a there's a feme
of like being a woman in power being seen as
bad and having to work with that. And this was
about the idea of like being pushed out of your
work because of tech AI and capitalism like trying to
ruin you, right, and and the end, and then the
movie Capitalism does also see the day, so it's interesting
commentary of like capitalism is bad, but also you also

(01:02:58):
wanted to help you keep going, and I find that interesting.
But I thought it was a really great, a glorious
sequel for a film. I would watch it numerous times
after Chase after Chase episode, I'm like, it's like like
there there there are some things that like that that
have like that, like Fallen Shorts.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Yeah, very much both. And I know, man.

Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
Pam is to John last week talking about beyond dubbing
clues for Act three, and Mama.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
We still ain't got nothing all that ship.

Speaker 4 (01:03:25):
You talked last week about how we get at three snippets,
a song, a whistle something, We got nothing girl?

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
But did we? But did we?

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
Because we got nothing? I don't want to hear it right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
But what I'm so now, I'm just saying, even with
this met gallow, look, I'm wondering if that is no
and not to something like I.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
Don't, I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
I don't give a fact that she came out in
a skeleton. She could come out, she could come out
with a guitar on her body.

Speaker 4 (01:03:55):
I still would have like, you gave me nothing, girl,
I want the song, drop the song, drop.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
The album, give me the visuals. I don't care about
what she wore.

Speaker 4 (01:04:06):
I mean, you're right, she probably does give me us clues,
but I still was like, I ain't give nothing nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
Okay, So no, man, Pam to my sister that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Well, sometimes you got to take the al I guess
that's it fail I'll take I still think she's nodding.
I still think that she's given us hints and clues.
She's dropping bread crumbs. I don't know what those bread
crumbs are. Even the fact that Blue was going with
her to a lot of stuff, I'm wondering if the
next iteration of whatever she's doing has Blue included.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
I don't know what I will say.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
About the met gala, and I'll say this, and I'll
throw back to you, James, I did think, again, as
much as I didn't love what Beyonce had on, I
didn't love what Blue was wearing or what Sean Carter
was wearing, but I did think it was cute that
they all did coordinate. Like there was Beyonce's big ass dress,
then you had Blue. Her shoes were actually a Naza Cinderella,
but they also were like they had the ryanstones on them,

(01:04:56):
and then jay Z's tie had the rying stones on
them or the diamonds, whatever you want to call it.
But yeah, I just thought it was really cute that
they came as like a little, you know, a family.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
It all looked very.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
She's playing salt, and I would say she's playing salt
in her bread comes.

Speaker 4 (01:05:10):
Yeah, the bird comes are salty and a bitch is thirsty,
leaving me thirsty forever.

Speaker 3 (01:05:14):
I'm like, I'm burg beyond.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Yes, give me, yeah, Beyonce, we are going to need something.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
We're gonna need you to go ahead and just go
give us something to kind of hold us over at
this point. But anyway, yes, I will take that ill.
But what about you, James, what's your yes, ma'am?

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
No, man palms?

Speaker 5 (01:05:29):
Okay, So I think you guys stole my entertainment, yes,
ma'am's because the two things that I watched that I
really loved the past two weeks was Michael and Devil's
prior too. But can I do a work edition, yes, ma'am? Yeah, okay,
whoever you want? Okay, okay, So my yes, ma'am is
a very good brand. Trip recently, I don't know if

(01:05:49):
you guys saw it, there's like a viral black woman
who is working for Virgin Voyages. They're like, PRT, were
you on that cruise? Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
Yeah, if I know the inside scoop, we were.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
I knew someone on the cruise. How about that?

Speaker 4 (01:06:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:06:07):
Honestly one of the best. I had a conception about
what cruises was. It would be a bit boring, you know,
far from so much fun. I would advise everyone to
go on the cruise. But the message there is more
pr managers that really are giving black content creators or
entertainers people in the industry their flowers and letting them

(01:06:29):
partake in the great things in the industry. Seen as
we are causing a lot of influence. So that's my man.
My know, ma'am, is when brands do not do their research.
And I would love to give an anecdote, but I
don't want to get in trouble because this is very
relevant and this week for me. But yeah, brands, do

(01:06:50):
your research. Do your research.

Speaker 4 (01:06:53):
We can believe if you want to share a week,
we can bleep, but there's no pressure to do so.

Speaker 5 (01:06:59):
Oh because it's so specific, I will will yeah yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
So basically, yes, I I hear what you're saying, and
I will say this like you don't have to name names,
but I hear what you're saying. You're basically saying, brands,
step it up, step your pussy up, basically is what
I'm hearing.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
And it's and it's it's not. You bring up a
really good point.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
It's not hard to open up a Google you know,
page and type in a person's name, or even.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
It's a free it's a free tool, bitch.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
You can even go to a I perplexity, open up
chat GPT and say, hey, tell me everything I need
to know about this person?

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
Ask cld cloud is your friend? Ask hey, girl, what
do I you hear my tap tap tap tap tap
tap tap you spend all this time?

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
sEH?

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
Yes, girl, what tell me more about James Corbin? Tell
me more about what I need to know when I
when I.

Speaker 1 (01:07:57):
Approach them on something, girl, please get it together. Yeah,
a lot of a lot of the girls. A lot
of the dolls are lazy. That's basically what I hear
you saying is just some of the dolls are lazy.
This is not a shot at all. PR folks. There
are a lot of girls out in PR who are
doing the damn thing. But a lot of the dolls
are lazy. And I mean, we gonna need you to
do better.

Speaker 4 (01:08:17):
Some people just just forgot just forgot the the you know,
the the wonders of research.

Speaker 3 (01:08:21):
Team let's all team.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
Yeah, And that's what you go to school for you
got a degree a BA and you can't do no
research on an artist.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
Okay, all right, girl, With that being said, please send
us your thoughts, your feedback in emails to Blackfetfempod at
gmail dot com. I just said it for you. I
said it for you, James, so that way you don't
get in trouble. You can also send us your thoughts
via social media by interacting with our posts on Instagram
and threads. Threads is where said girl, by using the
handle at Blackfatfelm Pod. James, where can the dolls find you?

(01:08:50):
If they want to find more of your work, your music,
all of the things that make you amazing.

Speaker 5 (01:08:56):
You can find me on Instagram, Twit, Toss, Spotify, Apple Music,
can any streaming music streaming platform. James coolbing, cool being
captures and please stream my new song Supreme where a
feature on how Zero's track Man.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
If you see a bump in them streams in the
next couple of days, it's me.

Speaker 4 (01:09:18):
It's just it's me, two of us playing everything, playing
on every profile I can, on every TV I can, like.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
Yes, my god, Queen Joh, where can the dolls find you, babe.

Speaker 3 (01:09:29):
Of course, my love.

Speaker 4 (01:09:30):
You can find me at Jojo Dann's across all socials,
my website joindalees dot com, or you can find me
at someone's cauldron or altered saves and spells for some
good luck because I a bit need some blessings and.

Speaker 3 (01:09:42):
Protection from the world.

Speaker 4 (01:09:43):
God's laughing at me and I'm I'm tired of jokes.
I'm not here for it. Okay, my name is not Netflix.
I am not a joke.

Speaker 5 (01:09:51):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
I'm literally gonna say joke.

Speaker 1 (01:09:54):
Not be looking for your name on that Netflix is
a joke billboard that's outside my place.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
I literally every.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
Time, every every time I drive down the street, I
just see a whole dis the names and I'm like,
I wonder if Jordan's name.

Speaker 4 (01:10:06):
Just real quick? So am I Hostless hotel in Hollywood
and I checked in. The girl was like, oh, like,
are you here for Netflix's the joke? And I was
like no, No. She was like, you just look funny,
and I was like, is that that is that? I
was like, what is that me? I look funny? I
could be on I could be on stage, but I'm not.
I was like, like, you look funny. You should be

(01:10:30):
on the Netflix of the joke.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
What you trying to say?

Speaker 3 (01:10:33):
Not today, Mama, not too much on me, Mama, I
just I just got here a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
But it's so because fat people are funny? Is that
what you're trying to say?

Speaker 4 (01:10:40):
Okay, I was like, I'm a big girl with no
eyebrows today. Is that why I'm funny or something? I
just want to know what's.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
Happens trying to what's the team? Mama? Yes, I live?
Are you here for Netflix? Is a joke?

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
No bit.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
What you're trying to say, I'm screaming.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
Oh life is a joke, my God, for us, for
me and my crazy my crazy tail. You can find
me on socials at doctor John Paul online, all the socials.
I tell people this, if you follow me on Twitter,
I will not be engaging. I am not on Twitter.
I'm just on Twitter to protect my name, so just fy,

(01:11:17):
I'll let you know that I do not use Twitter whatsoever.
I do, however, use threads, and I use Instagram, and
I use that clock app even though I don't really
even that clock app is interesting, but.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Anyway, all that to be saved.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
You can find me also down to ww dot doctor
Johnpaul dot Com, where you can learn more about my
consulting and my book. You can also join me over
down to the substack The Unfit Professional five dolas a month. Honey,
I'm giving you all of the tea about what it
means to be unfit, both as a professional and also
in your body. It's okay to be unfit over here, yes,
go on NASA. You can also head over to watch

(01:11:51):
and learn more about our podcast on Hulu Who I
Am Meant to Be. ABC did a profile and I
got spiled a tea about the show and everything connected
with it. But all that to be said, this has
been another show. Stay black, Fat, fin and fabulous and
remember what jojo.

Speaker 5 (01:12:09):
Girl.

Speaker 4 (01:12:09):
We may not be a cup but tee, but get
yourself some water and love it off because we funding
this bitch tea.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
Yeah, that is the tea you should be drinking the tea. Bags,
that's the tea.

Speaker 5 (01:12:22):
Babes.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
I love us for real. We'll see you next week.
Buying by.

Speaker 4 (01:12:28):
Right. The BFF Black Fat Fem podcast is executive produced
by Carmela Nns and Jonathan P.

Speaker 3 (01:12:35):
Higgins.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
All content related to the show is edited by Chris Rogers.

Speaker 4 (01:12:39):
This has been a podcast by iHeartMedia and doctor John
Paul LLC The Black Fat Film Podcasts where all the
intersections of a dandy are celebrated.

Speaker 3 (01:12:47):
Honey, I know that's right.

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