The A.I. Jedi (2025 Rewind) (Featuring Bunny McKensie Mack)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everyone, Doctor John Paul here, and yes, your BFFs
are still on a much needed break. I know we
are just as excited to be back on the mic
with y'all, but you just don't have.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
To wait one more week.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
With that being said, we wanted to run this episode
by you one more time because it was such an
insightful and important conversation and as we think about the
month's coming ahead, we may need some of that to
keep us going. So with that being said, we will
have more important conversations like this one coming this year,
so please enjoy this one. Remember to stay black, Fat,

(00:37):
Fem and fabulous, and tune in next week for all
new episodes. We love you and we can't wait to
be back on the air with y'all for another year
of fun, love and uplifting conversations. With that being said,
I love us for real. Talk to you soon.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Bye. The Black Fat Fem Podcast is a production of
iHeartRadio and Doctor John Paul LLC. Hey everyone, welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
To another episode of the Black SEFM podcast where all
the intersections of identity are celebrated. I am one of
your hosts, John also known as doctor John Paul, and
while Joho was getting his life on a boat. I
was out here praying someone would throw me a life raft,
because my God, I prayed to be this busy. But

(01:23):
Jesus Christ, not this busy. I have literally not come
up for air at all today. But I digress and
we move on. How were you, Joho?

Speaker 2 (01:34):
How was the trip? Hello?

Speaker 3 (01:36):
Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, fam. I am
so happy to be back on land. Girl, Oh my god,
let me just tell you first of all. First of all,
first of all, Norwegian Cruise Line owes me n. I
figured the food, the views, the luxury of it all.

(01:58):
It was everything.

Speaker 4 (02:00):
I was actually gadget how much fun I had.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
Though the few parts I was like, what is happening?
Was the last day, the last day we were supposed
to go to the Bahamas, and it was canceled because
the tropical storm coming, and so we turned around to
avoid the storm. We were still in the storm a
little bit, so on the on the second last day,
is storming right, and we're seeing like lightning strike, like

(02:24):
lightning striking the ocean. One one my first thought was like,
if lightning strikes the ocean, do all the fish fry in?
They're like, what happened? In lightning Strix's notion, so just curious.
But at one point the water was so like this
right the boat was like waving and shit. And I'm
walking from the observation deck, which is like a deck
of like parent paranorramic viues, and I'm walking on the

(02:45):
left side. As i walk, I'm like, why do I
think I'm tilted? I don't know why I think I'm tilted.
I look outside the window and I was like, oh,
the water looks so close, like I wonder why, maybe
maybe it's high tide. Then I'm like, let me just
shift the other side of the right side. I was like, basically,
that's the sky. Girl, Why was we tilted? Why was
we tilted?

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Like it wasn't like.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
It wasn't like it wasn't like so bad that that
we're like out of the water or anything, but like
we're like we're rocking so much that we were tilting
a little bit that I'm like, Oh, that's the ocean
is really close right now to this to do not
this closer the window, but it feels the close window
compared to the other language. I was like, girl words.
So I was like, oh my god. I was like
we want to get got it was so rough. And
then also I never had a cruise.

Speaker 4 (03:27):
I always come back with vertigo.

Speaker 3 (03:29):
So the way my body still feels the ocean rocking
when I lay down, and the way I have no
balance sending up girl trash trash, so there reg nothing.

Speaker 4 (03:39):
My body goes me everything.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
But this was just so fun and I'm so glass
because last episode we recorded, I was like, yeah, if
you don't hear back from me, I got cat by
about the pirates, or by or about the cruise ship itself.

Speaker 4 (03:54):
And here I am living to tell the tale. So
I'm so fable to be here.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
I'm thankful nobody got on your boat and said I
I am the captain now, and think about it, Donald,
are do you watch nine to eleven or nine one
one number one?

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Oh the way? Oh John the way. I watched the
premiere episode. It was like and I was like.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
This is one episode they're on, like episode yes, But
I had watched a premiere episode before I left.

Speaker 4 (04:19):
I was like, why am I doing this? Why am
I doing this? And then and then I saved the
second episode until until I got back.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
I was like, I will not watch this episode while
I am on the ship because last thing I need
is this ship to uh to prophesize into my life.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
So yeah, trash, but it's really you know, it's good TV.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
It's good. It's good trash TV. So this is not
a plug. This is not a paid plug, but I
this is a way for me to say, please go
watch nine one on it now on ABC. They are
no longer on Fox now on ABC. It's a it's
a good fun time.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Anyway.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
With that being said, we are going to introduce our
amazing third seat this week, our amazing guest in the
thirteenth this week.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
I always love You'll.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
You'll find that I do this often on the show,
is that I often go off script. But I will
say that I do have a chance meeting with him
during the pandemic back in the.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Days, do people still use clubhouse like.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
Because you put that in theselves, like clubhouse, Oh my god, right,
likehouse Clubhouse walked so that Twitter could run and.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
So it's really cool that Clubhouses was doing something that
wasn't anyway. We were on a panel about being out
and queer and doing stuff in the industry, and it
was really cool. This was like what three whole assid
years ago. This is in twenty twenty one, and we've
just been following each other. And what's also really cool
is that we're wrapped by the same agency, so we
get a lot of the same opportunities and we get
to do a lot of stuff in the same vein.

(05:51):
So it's been really really cool. With that being said,
this guest is a leading voice on power politics and
pop culture in a global market. They are a trilingual
tech enthusiasts, future climate economic economist I swear I can
speak honey, and serial entrepreneur from the South Side of Chicago.

(06:12):
I always like to ask people what their take is
on South Side, So when we're done with the intro,
I'm gonna ask you that what is there? What's your
take on the show if you've watched it, and more importantly,
a piece of what we're going to be discussing today
on the show. They are the founder and CEO of
MMG Earth, the first black and non binary led research
and change management firm in the US, and Boundary Work,

(06:34):
a public service platform dedicated to raising collective awareness and
offering educational information on boundaries for the betterment and the
culture and society and for us as black fat fam folks,
please give it up for the wonderful, illustrious bunny Mackenzie Mac.
How are you, baby, I'm doing great.

Speaker 5 (06:53):
Thank you so much for having me. That's like probably
the best intro I've ever heard.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
Oh my gosh, I always get that, and I'm just
kind of like, it's just the journal bag. I just
be in my journal bag. So I'm like, but also
I do leave, like, why.

Speaker 4 (07:06):
Does nobody else entry?

Speaker 3 (07:08):
Because this, like this should be the bad I agree,
it should be the energy that they always give you.

Speaker 5 (07:15):
I need to start having intros go through you.

Speaker 4 (07:20):
It's like we'll review and.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Can't nobody else do my intro? Yes, I know that's right.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
Well go ahead, so as we so as we as
we kick out the intro, we don't get off our
sign you should do every week with our good girl
miss Campbell giving her flowers for I'm still here and
to kick us off this week. But I want to
ask you, since we're gonna be talking a lot about
identity and tech in this episode, I'm curious to ask,
just as autment to this, how has internet helped you

(07:54):
find create or shape chosen family and community?

Speaker 5 (07:58):
Great questions? Say that you know for me The first
time that I ever saw in real time black fems
grounded in their power and their politic was on social media,
and that was through specifically seeing black fems write about identity,
about blackness, about consent, about queerness, about rest, about friendship,

(08:20):
and that contributed to really shaping my view of myself
and the world. I think that the space that the
Internet has created has helped me also to find a
voice the Internet in itself. You know, we know that
there are no inherently safe spaces on the Internet, but
we also know that the Internet does have the potential
to connect people who you know, this society has been

(08:42):
designed to disenfranchise. That's one of the reasons why the
US government wants to shut down TikTok right now, because
they know that the more that we talk to each other,
the harder it becomes to conceal how power works on
a deeper level. So, like, I've met two of my closest,
closest friends, one one Twitter when it was still Twitter,
and the other on Instagram.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
It's still Twitter to me anybody I have not met one,
but everyone's like Twitter.

Speaker 5 (09:12):
I mean, yeah, girls, It's like the Serious Tower in Chicago.
How we're like we're just going to continue to call
the serious Tower. Don't know what money changes hands.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah that's cool that you've been able to find people
and meet people that you know on the interwebs.

Speaker 5 (09:30):
Yeah, definitely it's been powerful for me for sure.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
And John John, how about Yeah, so kind of in
the same vein I was gonna say, I know, for me,
one of the things that has been imperative in meeting
people online, it's and and and really just thinking about
kind of how I've created like chosen family. So I'll
say this again off the script. It was It's interesting
because I met uh shout out to Darryl Hunt.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
They live in New York.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
And you know how you sometimes you meet people on
and their energy is so great online and then you
meet them in personal like, oh you're terrible. Daryl gave
the same energy. Like it was like it was a
ten year gap. I met them on Facebook. We would
go back and forth in kiki, and then last year
when I was in New York, I called them and
they said, Hey, I'm actually going to be in New York.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
We should get dinner.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
And when I tell you, it was like meeting an
old friend that I had never met before, Like I
literally it just felt like our souls and our spirits
had been like friends from maybe twenty five thirty years.
It was literally just like meeting a long lost cousin.
And so now we joke about seeing each other and
I'm definitely going to be seeing them in June when
I'm in New York again. But it's just a blessing,

(10:40):
you know. I feel like, you know, the Internet not
only has helped me with my career, but I think
it's really interesting and it's really important to note that
the Internet oftentimes help helps people find the resources and
people that they need in order to stay alive. I mean,
I think about my friendship with Jessica Marie Garcia and
Clarkisha Can't Like Clarkisha Can't helped me throughout my entire

(11:00):
book book process.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
I met her online.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Ryan Mitchell really helped me kind of get in front
of the mic and was the one who told me
that podcasting is something I could do. Even thinking about
one of my really good best my really good Judy's
Jane Simmons and now you know, doctor Simmons, their friend
to the show, so like I mean, even following you, Bunny,
like the internet did that it wasn't like you have
to give credit where credit is due, and social media

(11:26):
is what built that. And so I think about, you know,
how I've been able to reconnect with friends from college
all the way down to just being like, you know,
friends who I know left you know are ow And
we've talked about this before. I was raised at Jove's
witness friends who have left, you know, the organization, and
now see me living and thriving and going, Okay, I
want to leave to how do I do it?

Speaker 2 (11:46):
Like those are like that is what the internet does.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
It gives people hope, It gives people the opportunity to
really feel like they're scene. So I'm just I, you know,
as much as we should on the social media and
the internet for what it is is, it definitely has
helped me a lot to find myself in a lot
of different spaces.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
What about you, Joho?

Speaker 3 (12:06):
And you know, I was just gonna says so so
agreed to that because I sometimes I wonder if maybe
like not that not that it's not in a golden
age still, but I feel like there's a moment time
was kind of like a golden age for community building. Yeah,
because I think it I think I think it shifted
now a lot, and people use it for the we
use it for that still, but now it's more in
some ways, it's more about like your personal branding than

(12:28):
just community building.

Speaker 4 (12:29):
But I know for me, for a long time, the Internet.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
Was the opportunity or place for me to express my
creativity with others.

Speaker 4 (12:35):
And this is and this is like, this is.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
Like an Internet deep cut and prom me is like
I should not be saying this, but because it's so,
it's so it's so like.

Speaker 4 (12:43):
Niche nerd for me.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
But for a long time on Tumblr, I would do
rps or role plays where we use tum much like
role play a TV show or a game.

Speaker 4 (12:53):
And so I was big on.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
The Teen Wolf Show on MTV and we do like
different different role plays about the show that I would
always play, like like I would either play with the
characters from the show or I would or like there'd
be original was made by the moderators and like you
like you'd be blog and using gifts and you ro
blog like talking and writing as a character. And I

(13:17):
even like moderated one. And I made so many close
friends with other players, like we exchanged guypes and we
talked like every other day. And so that was a
really great way of how I built community in a
time where but because I'd don't when I just moved
to San Diego, where I had left like my eighteen
years of life in one place, to a different place
where I knew nobody and went from a hugely bipop

(13:42):
community to a white community, and was like.

Speaker 4 (13:44):
How do I adjust? What?

Speaker 3 (13:46):
How how I adjust to like be a whole different culture,
shock and stuff.

Speaker 4 (13:49):
So that would help me fel connect to people.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
That weren't that I could still be friends with and
connect with beyond just my like actual locale. And then
you know, did I think, like on Instagram, I'm saying,
you know, same with you, John, Like I met a
lot of folks who would follow Rice Versta and we
meet up in person or on travels or in the
same area. And that was really special too. Like recently recently,
a few weeks ago, I was in a coffee shop
and someone came up to me and said, how much

(14:13):
they love when I put out they think they they
like like I have to say I And it was
nice because like I was talking of them, they were like, wow,
like you are you You are just like how I
thought you'd be and just like how you show yourself
on social medi which I was like, thank you, because
I strive for that, Like I don't.

Speaker 4 (14:32):
I strived to do the.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
Same person, not where I am. I don't want them
to have a different joe, like the this is the
joe hoo.

Speaker 4 (14:38):
You see, the grammar is the jolly.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
You're same person and so and so, then there's really
special ones and then me and that person are gonna
grab coffee soon, like to actually talking. That was such
a nice way of really seeing how the Internet, when
willed for good, it can be amazing for us. And
when it's bad, it's so so bad. But that being said, fan,
we have we we have to be.

Speaker 4 (14:58):
Our we have to be our bet and some commercials.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
So we will t T y L with y'all and
buddy and just a few months out to this break.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
All right, So as we get into Segi number two,
we're getting into our category is and this week we
are touching on something that is, honestly, in my opinion,
a truly hot topic. I'm seeing it everywhere from people
talking about it and you know, television and film, people
talking about it, in education, people talking about it in
business or even in nonprofits, right from all of the

(15:35):
stuff surrounding the entertainment industry, and even down to Kate Middleton,
which pause, I don't believe that was really her. I
believe that that was an AI version of her. But
we can get into that a little bit later, if
we won't see, there are a lot of people who
have been celebrating AI, and I'll be transparent and even
saying like I use AI in a lot of ways

(15:57):
for my job, especially when it comes to writing. I
used it today for a press release to make sure
that my press release looked the way it needed to look,
went in, change things, did things. But again, using AI
when it's being wielded for the right thing is a
good thing.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
But there are still a.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Lot of people who are truly extremely and who are
extremely leary of it. And so the thing that I
think that we want to get into today is really
talking about how powerful it is, but also how so
many folks are using it to keep black and LGBTQ
people oppressed. And I think that's the thing we really
want to drive home today. So with this being said, Bunny,
I think one of the ways we wanted to bring

(16:33):
you into this conversation is thinking about black fat fems.
What should we be paying attention to as we start
talking about all of the AI conversations that keep popping up.

Speaker 5 (16:45):
Oh wow, so many things. So I'll start by saying that,
you know, when I really appreciate it, we started this conversation,
so like thinking about the ways in which we've been
able to build community on social media, and so all
the things that we love about that and also the
things that we dislike about the Internet are now being
accelerated by the use of artificial intelligence in every direction.

(17:09):
When we think about specifically black fat fems in particular,
we can also think about the manipulation of people's representation,
like the manipulation of their little images. So we know
that currently something we've been seeing is that folks on
the far right have been replicating images of black bems
showing them attending per Trump events, you know, to mislead

(17:29):
the public. So basically just using our likeness and our
struggle to create a visual representation of something that will
never exist, which is black fat fems who are experiencing
joy and happiness and stability and a white supremacist society.
So when you think about that, it's you know, the
power of image. We know that we always say that

(17:50):
a picture can sort of speak a thousand words. So
if we take that sort of technology, we put in
the hands of people who want to speak a lot
of words that are homophone and fat pobic and transphobic
and anti black. You know that of course is going
to create dangers to us. It's going to increase the
amount of harm that we can experience in the world.

(18:10):
And then also in addition to that, I think it's
going to have a negative and can have a negative
detrimental impact on our own mental health. I would say
also it's important to think about labor. So we know that,
you know, we live in a society that is capital
is dominant, and in a society like that, how money
flows between people, how non monetary transactions full between people.

(18:33):
It all comes down to labor. Even we think about
artificial intelligence or we think about you know, historically marginalized people,
we know, the less privilege you have in our society,
the more labor you do, which is why we have
so many black and brown people in the global South
that are being paid pennies or sometimes no money to
sift through the data sets that creates predictive models like

(18:54):
ch at GBT. So those are just two of the
things that I think are really important to share. In
response to that question.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
I feel guilty for you.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
I mean, the answer is that is So that's such
a fantastic answer, because one something I think about a
lot is like to your point about the predictive models
and what like, like in what and what goes into it, Like,
I have no doubt that like the work that we
may have each done ourselves visually in the world has
actually informed much of how these how these ais and

(19:26):
like then begin to inform the like the their outputs.
Which is interesting because it's like a because like we
think of labor right like, we're already doing labor in
this way, and then our work is being copied and
being and becoming formulaic and we aren't.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
We aren't being credited, we aren't being paid. We aren't
we aren't we aren't.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Getting anything any regnition regnition for that. And then more
marginalized folks are then expected to like like sift through
that is, as their labor not not get paid we
recognized perspective for it, just like just to then keep
her petu in that cycle and it's just like it's
just so fascinating's so interesting because I think sometimes like

(20:05):
my struggle with AI is I don't think like I
don't think in some ways there I don't think I
can write better than I can, but I but I
do believe that my writing those writings who are better
inform like informs than and than what they do. And
it's like sometimes sometimes I'm like AI, check like girl,
check check the check the material. Like it's it's like

(20:28):
we're the ones that are making it work because because
let's be clear, most likely marginalized voices are the ones
that are the ones that they're using to actually inform
the work. It's not gonna be the white, the white,
the white voices, because those voices are almost the best
voices I am out. So I'll just say I really
love us diving into this conversation because the rights of
AI is definitely a builth and for me, I can
understand the benefits of machine learning to make things easier

(20:52):
more accessible for us as people, especially when they can
be complimentary to our lives. And it's a great point,
a great point of recognizing how the things aren't inherently
good or bad.

Speaker 4 (21:02):
But they're wielded.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
In horrible ways and that's and that's what makes the
the big difference. But what happens when they try to
erase our work and us as the creators of it, then,
like as it's doing now, like I think we're kind
of already there in some ways, and so I'm super curious,
howsk you, bunny, is may maybe are the opportunities to
help work on ethical AI?

Speaker 4 (21:22):
Can AI be ethot? That's a really good job focus,
really good question.

Speaker 5 (21:26):
Yeah, absolutely so, yes, it can be ethical. So we
have organizations like all techis human like workings that are
focused on researching complex issues around artificial intelligence and human rights.
And there's one organization in particular that that I want
to name, which is DARE and that's Distributed AI Research Institute.

(21:49):
So what they're doing is they're focusing specifically on work
that's rooted in, you know, in their words and the
belief that AI is not something that we can avoid
and that the harm that it can do is preventable
when it's produced in a way that is responsible and
in a way that really includes varied perspectives that are
not only white, and varied perspectives that are really deliberate

(22:12):
about the processes that are being developed. What I want
to name too, is that we know that if AI
didn't exist, let's say, we weren't having this conversation right
or having a different conversations. We know that the copy
paste girls are always going to be a right right
right girls is always on the Internet and they always
copy you know, pastes, And so the fact that that

(22:34):
already exists, it means that AI is more of the
tool that is augmenting that or making it easier for
a number of folks. Because I'm sure there are a
lot of creators that in creatives and writers that listen
to you all show. I want to say that if
you have a website, did you know that you can
use a function on your website? You can literally click
a button that makes it so that people can't use

(22:57):
AI to surf your website and put content into a
chat GPT.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
Wait, wow, that's really I never knew that. That's so cool.

Speaker 5 (23:05):
Okay, yeah, so you can do that?

Speaker 4 (23:10):
Which one is how people can use that? Yeah?

Speaker 5 (23:13):
Absolutely, So there's so there's organizations like that that are
really advocating for these types of changes. I always like
to focus on right of refusal. So it's like, I
know that something is ethical if there's a writer of refusal,
if my broker is being taken from the Internet and
being put into a data set for chat GPT to
then you know, provide folks with responses to or things

(23:34):
that sound like me, I don't have a right to
refuse that. So that means for me that it's not ethical.
But I will say this that there are a number
of ways in which we still get to use AI
that are really ethical. So for example, you know, you
might be wanting to reduce some of the time that
you spend writing emails, or maybe you've written something that
you think is fairly like really wordy or really long

(23:56):
or expensive, and you're like, hey, I want to potentially
use AI to provide a synops to me, or use
AI to kind of shorten something that I've written, or
for those folks in terms of we're thinking about disability awareness,
you know, not everybody can sit down and read a
twenty forty page research base for chat or anything that,
so they might say I want to put it into
AI and have AI provide me with the synopsis, And

(24:18):
those are just it's a very short list of a
very extensive list of ways in which AI can be
used responsible.

Speaker 4 (24:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
I love that you mentioned that because and this kind
of ties into the next question, you know. I love
that you ask this question first, because this week I
was applying for something and one of the questions was
that it said if I could fix something about AI,
what would it be, And I, you know, inherently said bias.
I think that there's still so much bias in a

(24:44):
lot of what I see in AI, even just some
of the stuff, like I know that for instance, I
had done a writer's room. It was it was a
samples writer's room, and they told, you know, someone in
the room was like, oh, I've been using AI to
come up with different synopsis in different scenarios for me
to be able to kind of think about what next
script I want to write?

Speaker 2 (25:01):
And I was like, oh, how cool.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
And so they were showing us very in the early
heyday of like chat GPT, when everyone was you know,
kind of jumping on the bandwagon. But even in some
of the synopsis is that they were using, I could
see the bias in the in in what they were
talking about, especially with like black characters or trans characters,
et cetera, et cetera. And so you know, I I
appreciate that we're seeing more and more people talk about it,

(25:24):
and it sucks because it's like, where in our lives
can we exist without their being racist? Is like, we
can't even exist in a a fictional way without racist.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
But yw my god, or you know, any rights of machines.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
Even racists, But it's also like the people making machines
are racist.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
Okay, it makes sense.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
But all that to be said, I think, you know,
this ties into kind of you know, the next question.
I think because oppression is everywhere, and knowing that bias
lives in a lot of different factions of AI, I
I guess I wanted to know, like, how does one
go about being cautious about how they use AI or
even more, if they're interested in helping to fix the

(26:04):
issue like that, do you believe that that issue can
one day be fixed?

Speaker 2 (26:09):
And if so, how, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (26:12):
I think it's one of those things where it's something
that we have to continuously work at because we know
that bias alone is not inherently bad or evil. We
will always have bias, but when it becomes for example,
identity based bias or bias that fuels violence, or bias
that feels harm towards people, negative stigmas, and it's like, Okay,
now we're entering into a zone where we have to

(26:34):
act quickly. I had somebody ask me recently, you know.
They were asking me about different sort of like approaches
to economies, and they were like, do you think that
we can have an economy where black and brown folks
are centered, where we're taking care of each other? Or
maybe not everything comes down to some sort of a
monetary transaction, but it is our communities are built on care.

(26:58):
They were like, do you think that that's possible in
pol of society? And I'm like, well, do you think
that being trans affirming is possible in the transphobic society?
And they're like yeah. So I'm like, so this is
similar and that if we're thinking about creating policy and
practices that address bias in AI, it's sort of like
if we wanted to create trands or fat affirming healthcare

(27:20):
and we're not doctors or hospital administrators creating those policies.
That means that we work from the outside collaboratively to
demand an approach to healthcare and health that works for us. First,
I want to name here too, because I love history
and I find that sometimes looking back helps me to
look forward. So an example that I would give is

(27:40):
during the Industrial Revolution, we went from an economy that
was solely, almost solely centered on agriculture to an economy
that was central machines and products developing factories. And as
that evolution was taking place, you know, do we think
the people in power were like, Hey, you know what
we're going to do. We're going to hire workers, We're
going to pay them liverabal wages, We're going to make
sure that there we work in safe environments, safe working

(28:02):
conditions ailed at all. They want to make as much
money as possible, so they weren't doing that, and so
workers had to protest unsafe working conditions, long hours, low pay.
And it was the organizer of those labor movements that
created a lot of the laws that we know today,
So for example, having a set minimum wage, although it's
still way too low, having a set maximum working hours

(28:23):
at least under the law, but of course we know
there's still a lot of people who break the law,
and that helped to significantly enhance the quality of life
for a lot of people in the workplace. So if
we fast forward to now to this decade, we think
even about right recently, the writer strength as an example
of this, like critical dissent in the development and use

(28:44):
of artificial intelligence as opposed to waiting for that to happen,
or assuming that people who hold who are in those
positions of power are first going to know what needs
to be done and secondly are going to be as
invested as we know that we are.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
All right, damn any oh my god, like I'm just living.
And then you're saying as you're speaking, it's you think
about there's this new organization or not maybe not new,
but new to me because it's only them recently. But
they're like they're focused on like time economy and like
like like and like and uh and uh time poverty

(29:21):
as as a frame meant their their work is really
focused on helping establish a four day work week, like
on a federal level in America.

Speaker 4 (29:29):
It's interesting. So I'm seeing more.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
More organizations actually do forty work works as well too.
And but but their but their basis demonstrates or their research,
you know, there's demonstrating that people like people like people
have time poverty, that they work too much that workers
to accessible for them in the first place. So how
do we one to increase more remote jobs or increase
public transit to get to jobs quicker faster ways, and

(29:52):
and so many, so many things that they need access
like healthcare, pharmacies. Banks right are open Monday through from
nine to five, And I think that's a lot too
of Like, like, if something's nine to five on Monday
through day, but I'm working ninety five money the frient day,
how will I be able to access those things?

Speaker 5 (30:10):
Right?

Speaker 3 (30:10):
Like I taked him on my work day, and thankfully
I have a job that like that is that you
know that works with me online. It's like if you
have to do this, to go do this, girly, to
go do your thing. And so the purpose of this
organization is to say if you can give people one
free day that they can do those things, and so
pay them a play them a five, you know, and
pay them an eighty hour you know, every every every

(30:32):
pay cycle salary, but the only work you know, sixty
four hours and in those two weeks, then that frees
them so much time for them.

Speaker 4 (30:41):
To actually have a better work work work by balance,
I addressed.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
Things in their life and app that that like small
ship really is a small shift, we actually have a
meant to impact on people's lives. So I appreciate you
talking about how these things are possible, because I too
often think can these things exist a kept of society,
and like, yes, that actually can because capitalistic was just
it was just a construct.

Speaker 4 (31:04):
In the first place.

Speaker 3 (31:04):
Everything we have is a contract with somebody above us
or you know, the you know, the people who want
who want to do expectation and too making something that
wasn't that was ever real before. And so clearly to
your point, the you know, liberal movement has showed how
we actually can change things. So I appreciate you giving
hope in that way of saying these things are impossible

(31:25):
to do. They require a lot of work, and it's
sad because as our society grew, the barriers also grew
with that and making even harder for us to to
make change.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
But I but here can say it's possible.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
It was like really helpful, And I want to shift
a bit down to you work with MMG. Is it
MG or is it image? Like is it is it image?
I was working if it was MMG was image.

Speaker 5 (31:50):
But image.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Image because I was like MMG Earth and then I
was like, image Earth, go off image Yeah, okay, trademarket,
but okay, So I want you into work with with
with with with image Earth, because that's been that I
haven't seen before, at least in the way that it
shows it that it shows itself like you know, it
says we build worlds, right, which has really basic think

(32:16):
of Tivia Butler and Adrian.

Speaker 4 (32:19):
Murray Brown forms of world building.

Speaker 3 (32:21):
So I want to ask, like, what does that look
like in the practice for yourself of change management and.

Speaker 4 (32:27):
How do you build worlds.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
In in organizations today and new ones through your lens.

Speaker 5 (32:35):
Thank you so much for asking me this, and thank
you so much for that name I d I'm going
to that back to my fame, so no problem especially
talking about here.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
I was like, yeah.

Speaker 5 (32:53):
So, the concept of world building, as you all have
already known, it comes from black music, black art, black poet,
true black culture, and it is a nod in honor
of these influences of all that black people, especially black, queer,
trans and non binary people, have done to create new
worlds in the midst of a society that has been

(33:14):
designed to steal our creativity and power away from us.
We know that in the thirty year history of the
change management industry, which has been predominantly white, that change
managers have been encouraged to focus on an individual problem
from a deficit perspective, which makes sense, you know, because
when you think about it, that's what colonialism does. It's well,

(33:35):
here's the deficit, here's what these black and brown folks
don't have, and here it's how we need to save
them from themselves. And so they tend to lead processes
that act as if injustice and corruption and equity don't exist.
And that was a problem for me. That's one of
the reasons why I decided to start him mg Earth
because for me, it was understanding that if we ignore

(33:56):
a problem, it gets bigger, and when we take the
opportunity to dress a problem, it either gets smaller or
it becomes more understood. Because we know these are difficult problems,
so they can't just be solved overnight. We use a
four environments framework and our change management work, and so
that's focused on the inner self, So like, what's happening
with me individually? What are my beliefs and not just

(34:18):
about what I believe about other people, but what do
I believe to be true about me, because of course
we find that that tends to be one of the
main points of resistance we have come up is not
even so much about folks who don't want a problem
to be solved, but more so that folks experience, especially
people who are just who are historically disenfranchised, experienced a

(34:38):
lot of self hatred and a lot of self critique
that I think can get in the way of them
experiencing power. There's a human bonds piece, because we know
that we can't really solve problems in asylo we have
to do it in community with others. There's economics because
we know we need the money, we need the resources.

(35:00):
And then finally there's power, power, climate, and society. So
it's understanding how culture and society come together, how our
environment comes comes into play, and then also how power
comes into play, how it flows within our society. So,
you know, the question that I get all the time
is like, Okay, but what do you actually do? And
mainly for my mom.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
My mom, same and I've been doing it for fifteen years,
always what do you do?

Speaker 5 (35:26):
You really have a job?

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yeah, I'm like, mom, I just hate your brand. You
do work?

Speaker 4 (35:31):
Right right, like you do work, Yeah, I work.

Speaker 5 (35:37):
And this is you didn't hit no legs. So we've
used this framework specifically to design approaches to redistributing wealth.
So for example, I started with myself. We redistributed over
one point four million dollars of our own profit within
the course of a year. We use it to design
new products for organizations and corporations. We use it to

(36:00):
develop approaches to improving agriculture, and approaches to agriculture that
are pro black, for example, they're pro brown, pro Indigenous.
And we do a lot of work with local government agencies,
with tech companies and foundations. So you know, I think
that I have one of the best jobs in the
world because I get to be a part of developing

(36:22):
solutions to very complex problems that since I was a
kid growing up on the Southside of Chicago, I was
told we're not solvable. And that puts me in a
very different kind of a position now and affords me
a perspective that I'm very grateful for, and I'm grateful
to community also to be in this position and be
able to solve problems alongside a team of highly, highly
qualified and brilliant people.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
You just gave us the title of our episode. The
title this episode will be Black Solutions to Complex Problems.
I know that that's right, I said, I know that's right,
Black Solutions.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
I'm here for it.

Speaker 6 (36:59):
Yeah, yes, that title.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Yes, yes, as soon as you said it, I said,
let me type this out. Let be let me go
ahead and make sure that I get this so I
don't be looking for I don't be struggling to trying
to find a topic for next week's when I posted,
but no, yes, I I love this and I love that.
You know the thing that I hear that I think
is what makes me so excited. Not only I tell people,

(37:23):
and people know this about me. I'm a secret tech head.
So my partner hates it because tech runs in and
out throughout my whole life, right down to my phones,
down to you know, I have the Home Pods, I
have the Apple.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
TVs, I have the Smart TVs.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
I have all of the smarts that you the smarts
can have, and you know, I'm constantly keeping my eye,
you know, on what AI is doing, who's doing what,
and who's involved in what too right, and so it's
really cool to note that, you know, not only for
me as a black fat fem but also to know
that there's someone like yourself who was so versed and
knowing kind of the background of this. I'm happy that

(37:59):
there's a rece not only just you as a resource,
but other black queer people who are in the fold
that are saying, let's have more. We need to be
in the fold of this. We need to be making
products that make sure that we're looking out for us.
So that's really cool. So speaking about your products, one
of the things I know that you shared with us
that I wanted you to be able to kind of
mention was the AI Racial Justice Toolkit, So I wanted

(38:22):
you to be able to tell folks a little bit
more about that, and then also too, the more important
part of that, right, not only just the self promotion piece,
which we love on the show, but why folks should
be paying attention to it, Like why is that even
needed in this time with AI?

Speaker 5 (38:38):
Absolutely, so, the AI and Racial Justice Toolkit. You know
you mentioned earlier the word resource, So that's what I
would use to describe it too, is that it's a
resource to help people in our communities engage in conversations
around racial justice and artificial intelligence, and so to do that.
We have filled it with case studies, with activities, with

(39:00):
reflection activities in particular, and we thoughtfully curated an extensive
list of resources so people can also go to other
places and learn from other folks, you know, not just
from us. We worked on it with a group also
of incredible technologists and researchers to kind of bring it
into bring it to life, and today it's been downloaded

(39:21):
over a thousand times by readers in Brazil, South Africa,
Mexico and Columbia, Germany, India, Sweed and Bulgaria and in
other countries, and we won an Anthem Awards for it
for leading global awareness campaign. So there is one case

(39:44):
that in particular that I found myself particularly drawn too
because it's based in Chicago and it focuses on the
impacts that predicted policing had on an individual's life on
the West Side of Chicago, meaning police officers using a
technology that predicts how likely someone is to engage in

(40:06):
a crime or to break the law. So you know,
there's coming up us all day, right, and that's what
they're being led to and using technology as a way
to kind of like attempt to conceal racism. And really
it's just like you all are just making assumptions based
on rape, right, But why do we need it? Well,
we need the toolkits like this, not just this one,
but mani toolkits like this and media opportunities for education.

(40:29):
One of the reasons is that last year, Community Tech
Network reported that about seventy percent, for example, the black
community reports being unprepared with digital skills, which impact their
ability to be employed and as work becomes more and
more remote and increase the likelihood that they'll be left fine.
We also know that based on that report, without intervention,

(40:50):
about eighty six percent of black and LATINX workers could
be completely left out of the job market by twenty
forty five. And that's just digital literacy. So that's not
even talking about yet. Like artificial intelligence. Yeah, this is
by design because they do not want us to know
how to use technology, because of course technology, you know,

(41:11):
not only opens up opportunities, but it opens up possibility.
If I can build an artificial intelligence that identifies, for example,
racism before it happens, there's gonna be a lot of
folks that don't want that that kind of technology to
be used because they want racism to be perpetuated. They
want to continue to be mediocre, and they want to
continue to write disenfranchisees. So for me, it's using one

(41:34):
tool as a way to kind of open up that
possibility and potentially, hopefully my goal is that even if
people don't read the whole thing, they just read a
you know, a page or two, or they just read
a sentence or two and they're like, Wow, I just
learned something new that I didn't know before.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Yeah. Again, it's an amazing it's so amazing to know
that that resource exists.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
Yeah, for sure, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you,
and thank you so much for sharing this with us.
I I mean, the work that I do in my
nine to five focuses on advanced racial equity, and I'm
definitely sharing this resource with my team as well too,
because I like, I know, I I know that I
know that our team you just AI and some passity.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
I think it will be very.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
Fascinting for us to share and also inform inform, like
inform the possibility of the worth I do. Because my
work is in grant making, I'd be curious to see
how this can inform.

Speaker 4 (42:22):
Like what like who who?

Speaker 2 (42:25):
Who am I?

Speaker 4 (42:25):
Who?

Speaker 3 (42:25):
Might discovered to resource or how or like like, how
they might do their work and how it can be
at the code impactful.

Speaker 4 (42:30):
So thank you so much for this.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
For the last question, I just wanted to have a
little bit about who you are, because because roup in
Chicago the way that you do, I'm curious to ask
how how does Chicago past and present and future, How
does Chicago inform your world building?

Speaker 5 (42:48):
Oh my gosh, and you know problems They probably almost
every way. I will say that, you know, just like
all a lot of Chicagoans. And I know sometimes if
begin on people's nervous also, it'd be always the US
and the means about how much we love Chicago. But
I'm fine with that because when I think about Chicago,
I think about, you know, the black Thmos who came

(43:10):
before me. So I think about my grandmother, Marjorie Mac
who was originally from Mississippi, came to Chicago for a
better life during the Great Migration, worked in the Sarah
Le factory to care for a family, and y'all could
take Sara Lee out because they didn't give y'all a shake.
And then I also think about the Great Ringing who

(43:32):
ran an I legal betting ring out of her apartment
in Chicago. There's no jobs. People don't want to hire me,
so we gonna do betting in my apartment and she
used that to pay the rent. So for me, I
think that Chicago is a city that will teach you,
especially you know, as a black person, how to defend yourself,
how to protect your community if you allow it to,

(43:52):
and how to love yourself and others around you. And
one of the most segregated cities in the world, I
learned how to dream of an hour come for my
life that I'd never seen before. And black writers helped
me to build that skill. Black dancers, black poets, black actors.
So when you experience that level of divestment in your community,

(44:13):
in such a vibrant and beautiful city at that, and
you can still dream of something better, not only for
yourself but for others around you, you know, that's something
that can't really be taken away from you, right, And
I think there's also no way I'm not using those
skills for the rest of my life, well into my eighties,
you know, and nineties. It's a highly, highly transferable skill.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, And ain't nobody more resourceful than a black person, y'all.
I always say that just we'd be so resourceful and
we just know how to how to just And that's
why I was going to ask you to kind of
doubling back to the thought, like I don't know, before
we go to commercial, I did want to ask you
what are your thoughts on South Side the Show about
how accurate that is in terms of repping Chicago, and

(44:56):
now it informs the way you feel about Chicago as well.

Speaker 5 (45:01):
Southside the Show probably one of the most accurate depictions
of plaque Chicago wins I ever seen on television. So hilarious,
and a lot of the things that they write about
in this show I have experienced directly in personally of
the show.

Speaker 4 (45:21):
Is amazing.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
I think I'm gonna start from episode one and watch
it again so that way I can retake it in
because it's just such a good show, especially the Oh
my god, it is so good. It is such a
good show. It is so oddly funny. The writing on
it is perfect. But with that being said, we actually
have to take a break, and so before Eagle Eye

(45:42):
cuts the core on both us and Bunny, we are
going to come back more and we're going to talk
more about what's on our plate.

Speaker 6 (45:49):
We'll be back in a second.

Speaker 4 (45:57):
Welcome back fam.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
This week we're sacking our food back because we could
not have Bunny here, a Chicago native and not talk
about food. Because I know folks about some good food.
So okay, we we we know that you know, so
we want to ask what food do you like?

Speaker 4 (46:15):
Push coogo on the map. I'll I'll start.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
I'll start about some foods for fruit, brought food, foods
for my hood, Josh about there, and then and then
and then we'll get to you, Bunny. So since I'm
a Northcalm native, I'm gonna keep it a Norcow. I
live in Sow. I'm gonna keep a nork Cow. I
grew up next to Fremont, which is home to the
largest Afghan community in the US. And the way, the
way I tear up some Afghan with some cofta kebabs,
like you cannot find it anywhere else besides in Fremont.

Speaker 4 (46:40):
And the way, Oh there's this eggplant dish I love
so much.

Speaker 5 (46:43):
It be this ship.

Speaker 3 (46:47):
You try this ship, you try this Oh my god's
so so so bombed, so like Afghan food that the
bay has such has some of the best, in my opinion,
the best Asian dasporic food. Like I really think about
one living in a living area where in literally a.

Speaker 4 (47:03):
Mile of my house was Laotian Mongolian tide.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
How many Japanese, Chinese, uh, the Pino, Vietnamese like all
that within a mile, right, but you get every part
of the of the diaz fri And so the way
I think about Chinese typically an Indian food. Anything in
my hometown sogopaneer. No one can touch it, no one
can touch it. And some dosas I'm not had, I

(47:27):
am not a dosa and so long I fuck with
dosa is heavy my childhood. There's not a place around
here that I found that Devon does dosas. So i'm
i'm I'm in the hunt. And when.

Speaker 4 (47:38):
Good dosa, please let me know.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
And lastly, you can't forget about how much you could
fil Pino food there is in the bay.

Speaker 4 (47:44):
Oh do you know how much I miss Do you.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
Know how much I missed living ten minutes from my
Jolly be Oh my god, that's that's why I miss
sometimes the most is I used to live to from
Jelly Bean. I would go there all the time, my friends,
and now I'm like, is there one even around here anywhere?
Like I have to go, like to me forty minutes
to find some good loomia. And I said, I mean good.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Oh my god, why so far there is?

Speaker 4 (48:06):
Because there are some places that have good loia.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
Okay, I have to travel far from my pond, I
travel far from my adebo and I just I just
missed accessibility that I would have when I was in
when I was in the Bay. Maybe maybe there's a
spot nearby that I don't know yet, So someone who
listens to the show and lives in my area can
put me on.

Speaker 4 (48:26):
But right now I know nothing.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
But those those things are the things that I'm like,
h norco got it going on all the way in those.

Speaker 4 (48:35):
In those places. So that that's me, bunny. How about you?

Speaker 5 (48:39):
Oh my gosh, do we have time for my full list?

Speaker 2 (48:44):
Please?

Speaker 5 (48:48):
Definitely. It's a lot of grease, which I love. And
I know there's gonna be some Michelin Star Award winning
chefs are gonna cringe it that answer. But gotta have
our gie or Donald's got to have our lumin It's
the thing crust, It's Chicago heart dogs. I love Clark
Street Dogs. Personally, it's the Heralds. It's the corn beef sandwiches.

(49:10):
I love. Also ap Deli. Oh, it's the vegan Indian
food because I wish I could be friends with dairy,
but dairry does not want to be my friend. But
the vegan so good. Also, one of my most favorite
Costa Rican restaurants, Razoo Food is amazing. It is Buyo

(49:33):
b which brings me to the drinks in Chicago, so
both alcoholic and for sober curious folks. Bomb all the way.
And then one of my most favorite sandwich coffee shops
is on the South side of Chicago. It's called Afro
Joe's Incredible Sandwiches, Pastries, hot teas, Black owned and they

(49:54):
have an outside where dog lovers can keep their dog
pounds on the outside.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
Yeah, I love that's Oh my lord, you keep your
dogs over there.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
You don't come around me, but keep them over there.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
We have a couple of restaurants where I live at.
I don't know if any of you are familiar with
Lazy Dog. With Lazy Dog is the same way. They
have a patio where they love. Their food is good,
but they do have a patio and a lot of
the restaurants that are popping up over by where I live.
They have patios now for animals and stuff that I'm
seeing more and more people bring their you know, their
dogs and stuff out, and so that that's been cool.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
You know. So I'm not go ahead, Were you gonna
say something no? Okay?

Speaker 1 (50:32):
Okay, yeah, I was gonna say because I want to
sure I don't step on about it now, I was
gonna say a lot of folks. So I'm probably we're
probably gonna get some heat from this from our listeners.
But you know what, ain't nothing that we can't deal with.
There are there is a lot of talk. Okay, let
me let me address the family. This is a family conversation.
There are a lot of people who like to come out,

(50:53):
who like to come to the table and just say, oh,
you can't the.

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Beck's Mexican food is in Texas.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
The best this is that is in the here and
the no, no, no, the best Mexican food and the
best Chinese food is in so Cow. I'm sorry, I
don't want to hear it. I have been to thirty
eight states, thirty eight states of the fifty states, Okay,

(51:20):
because I had to start counting and I was like, actually,
actually been to thirty eight been to thirty eight states.
I have never had Mexican food or Chinese food that
is better than California's specifically, so caw, San Diego, all
that area down there.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
You can't beat us. You can't.

Speaker 5 (51:38):
Now.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
I will give it to Texas. Texas, they got the
barbecue and all that. On Lock.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
I will say that Chicago, you got your pizzas, you
got your coney dogs, all of that. That's y'all. Y'all
got the popcorn. Y'all got the popcorn on Lock. I
ain't never get was it?

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Uncle Garrett? Is that who that is?

Speaker 1 (51:56):
I go gett with it with the with the different
flavors of the popcorn, and it'll make you it'll make
your blood pressure rise because you got to go to
the doctor and take some it's too salty.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
Yeah, Garrette. All that is y'all.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
But y'all don't don't come for us with our Mexican
food and Chinese food.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
I'm sorry, it's just real. It's real. We got the
best Chinese food.

Speaker 4 (52:17):
I was just saying.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
Someone who lives twenty minutes from the border of Mexico
in California.

Speaker 4 (52:24):
Agreed now I could give I could give it to Texas.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
I can give it to Texas because they also are
are a border region. I can give it to them
and the like in their own way. I've heard some
text Max can be bombed. I have people I know
people can throw down. I have a friend who was
raised in Texas. Cami Santa was like, listen, it's not
that it's better, it's just different, and I can I
can roll with different.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
Right, the text Max is different than.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
I would taste. I would taste, but I will say,
you can never be some tacos. These can be some tacos,
Like there's just no way, there's no way y'all gonna
be gonna be being at the border for for for
for for dons. Just how easy it is to get some.
So I would say, yes, I'm not now Chinese food.
I will say I'm sus I have not had.

Speaker 4 (53:10):
Great Chinese food in ce Diego. If you know that,
you let me know.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
And again, I'm probably gonna be on a lot of
people's list of canceled.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
But I need a Chinese food.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
So I tell people Panda Express, like all of those
fast food Chinese feet that is not Chinese food.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
I want my Chinese.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Food where the menu is almost like you can't see
it because the steam from the food has made has
literally taken all the ink out the paper. I want
someone in. I want someone in the front yelling at
the person in the back the order. I need that
that tells me that it's authentic. I need to know

(53:55):
that there might be a child playing in the dining
room area and the mom or the dad yelling at
that child to sit down. So that way, like I
need the experience, I need the cultural experience also tea.
Someone told me, one of my friends told me that
I don't know where I was. I think it was
actually in North Carolina. Someone was telling me that in

(54:17):
most Chinese food places, specifically specifically Chinese food places in
so Cow, they have a secret menu. So the menu
that we see is not the actual menu that they
give to other Chinese folks who come into because.

Speaker 4 (54:32):
You think other folks are just like, yes, I want orange.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
They said that they also have so listeners who can
tell me are where to go to get this secret
menu so I can taste it.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Please.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
I am open to it, but no, I'm definitely gonna
stick to my guns on this when Mexican and Chinese
is so cow all.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Day, I live, I live.

Speaker 4 (54:54):
I've been creming Chinese food too.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
So John, when next me visit we place or if
I I'm gonna come to you and we go findles
as well. Okay, well, y'all, weall, we once again have
left y'all hungry. We go to a bick break so
y'all can address your cravings, grab a snack and come
on back.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
All right, everybody, So we're gonna go ahead and get
into our last segment of the show. Your favorite yes ma'am,
no man, Pam, And this week I'm gonna go ahead
and kick it off. Then Bunny will give it to
you your yes ma'am and you're no ma'am, and then
we'll close out with Joho again for everybody. Yes, for
those of you who might be new to the show,
thank you for listening. But also for those of you

(55:41):
who don't know what yes madame, this is an opportunity
for us to either give people their flowers or to
throw them at them. And so what that means for
me this week, my yes ma'am is seeing Clandese Owens
get what she deserves. Catch it. This is just a
kind and from reminder, especially to my black people that

(56:04):
think that whiteness is going to be their friend and
is going to save them. Baby, it never works out
for you. It didn't work out for Kanye, it didn't
work out. It just it don't. It don't work out
for you. Like a lot of us believe that if
we play the game of white supremacy that it's going
to help us get further, et cetera, et cetera. And no,
it never does. And it only lasts until white people

(56:26):
start being white. And I love saying that. That is
something that a friend to our show, Xavier Dello, says,
white people are great until they get white on you,
and and and and it's something to just kind of
pay attention to because we have definitely seen it happen
more than once. So with that being said, seeing Clande
Owens have to, you know, put her tail back between

(56:46):
her legs and walk it back to the black community
has been interesting to see. And no, I'm not celebrating it. No,
this won't be a Don Lemon moment. Don Lemon didn't.
There were a lot of things Don Lemon did do.
What he did is totally different than what oh instead,
and I if we want to talk about it, we
can talk about in a later episode because we are
running low on time. On the other hand, my no

(57:08):
man Pam this week, so I don't want to make
it normally I make jokes and i' kiki about this.
I'm just gonna say it and and kind of let
it be what it is. Your favorite rapper is going
to jail.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
It is what it is. Diddy is going to jail.
It's just there's no other way to put it.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
There's just at this point and it's just sad because
it's like I think, my no, ma'am, as you know,
I'm grateful, So I'll say this, I'm grateful kind of
in a yes man. This is kind of a both
and for me, I'm grateful for the people who had
the bravery to step up and say Diddy did this
to me? Did he did did he didn't do this
for me? Or did he was had something to do

(57:52):
with this thing that happened to me. I'm I'm really grateful,
and I want to shout out the victims in the
sense of saying, I know it's are to put your
story out there and and then have to deal with
people not believing you. Where my no, Mam lies is
is is the folks that how do I say this?
There there are a lot of people who did He

(58:16):
basically waved carrots in front of a lot of people's faces.
He told them that they were going to be successful.
He tried, you know, he told them that they were
gonna he was gonna give them careers, and and and
and again. A lot of this is and that I
want to say all of a lot of the stuff
that we're seeing that come out in the news, it's alleged.
So I want to be clear and saying that, you know,
we don't want to get sued. I definitely just want

(58:37):
to say that a lot of this stuff is alleged. However,
there there is a lot of stuff where it's you know,
my mom would always say, you know, uh, two people
ain't gonna say the same thing and not be true.
And I'm just looking at a lot of the stuff
that's coming out and a lot of the stuff that
I'm hearing in the news, and I am sending so
much love to the victims, But at the same time,

(58:58):
I'm looking at Diddy and I'm going, girl, why, like, like,
what was it worth it? Like what for what like?
And again I get money power. All of that plays
a lot into this. But my no man pam this
week is Diddy and and also to Russell Simmons, they
got his ass over in the Bahamas too, or he

(59:18):
was in Bali. I take that back. He was in
Bali and they served him his papers too, So it'll
be really I'm really happy to see these really terrible
people in this industry get their come up ins. So
what about you, Bunny? What are your yes man's and
no man PAMs this week?

Speaker 5 (59:37):
How do I follow that? So? I think I think
I'll say my yes man would be Lsu making it
to the sweet sixteen of the NC Double A Women's
Championship and also ratings for n C Double A women's
games being about sixty percent higher this year and in

(01:00:01):
some cases higher than the man's team's ratings, which I
think is really really exciting for women's sports. No, ma'am,
I'm gonna have to go to Boeing CEO.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Oh my god, leadership.

Speaker 5 (01:00:14):
Yes, and that is a no man for me because
it comes about five years after two crashes killed three
hundred and forty six people. Yeah, yeah, mostly black and
brown folks. And so the fact that he even had
a choice to step down or was that fired five
years ago, is a no man for me.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
And this all coming with me sitting and counting all
the flights that I have to take.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Oh oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
Yeah, and I'm I'm at me flying back on I'm
boweing Max seven threes on Sunday, Like, please, Lord Jesus, still,
don't let.

Speaker 4 (01:00:53):
This be the end of me, not survival.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
Sh Just give us.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Plane, yeah, just give us the best betraying.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Yeah, just give us a yeah, just kidding. Yeah, go ahead,
just put me on the trip. But even then crash too,
because people, you know, I'll say this and then I'll
give the fallback over to you, Joe Hoo. I'll say
the frustration is as I was watching So I was
watching the news yesterday as the news broke about him
stepping down, and I will say, the thing I kept

(01:01:21):
thinking about is greed. There was a there was a
person who had come on and they were talking about
how they were so I think he said it was
about maybe five to ten years ago that they changed
the way that their processes worked, and about how like
the oversight of the planes and all of that, and
and it just I was sitting with him and I
was listening to him talk about how the process has changed,

(01:01:42):
and I just kept thinking, greed. Greed is going to
kill us because people are so consumed with trying to
get get a dollar rather than making sure that people
can arrive safely to their next destination.

Speaker 5 (01:01:54):
So absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Anyway, what about you, Joe.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
It will so first first, I'll say, cancel onans girl.
If you ever hear this, it is just so funny
that you hate cancel culture and yet it can to cancel.
That's just funny, eight, isn't it ironic? It isn't just
funny for us some time.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
Traffic jam when you're already late, no smoking sound on
your cigarette, bring.

Speaker 4 (01:02:23):
Exactly I live.

Speaker 7 (01:02:26):
And I will say like I will say, I don't
wish I don't wish incarceration on any black person or
personal color.

Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
I do wish justice to be served. So I'm like,
I don't want anyone to be incrustrated. But also I
hope something. I hope there is a form of justice
that is happening here with didd because ship needs to change.
My s man, Pam is gonna go to x mend
to the show X for ninety seven. The reason We're
made on Disney Plus as a as a chance.

Speaker 4 (01:02:53):
I put to the channel.

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
The show notes, well, I'm so old this channel Disney
Plus as a sequel to the nineties series, and oh
my god, it is a beautiful series premiere for so
many reasons, but especially because of how they really became
even more vocal about their themes into racism, homophobia, council,
et cetera, and so on and so forth. Like people
X Men has always been my favorite comic since I

(01:03:14):
was a kid. It's been the one thing that I've
been praying and waiting for in the MCU. Like I'm
said at the Finding the Finding bringing up there, I'm
happy that that.

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
Disney has has the rights to it. I mean, Disney
is interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
Place the day, the right style she do to do
this work now, and I'm excited for it because, I mean,
this season was just a This season premiere was just
a perfect launch.

Speaker 4 (01:03:35):
So I hope we'll continue being this powerful because it's
just so so good and like, like I mean, it
just shows.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
I think it's gonna be a show that really reinforces
how amazing even aime storytelling can be and how like
like and we think of like world building like world building,
and the lens of X Men is so fascinating and
so cool, and I think there's so many allegories and
parallels to our world today that I think people can.

Speaker 4 (01:03:58):
Take from the show.

Speaker 3 (01:03:59):
And I hope, I hope this is I hope the
show last for a long time. I have choicewards to
how the creator of the show, but Bo Demil was
was forced to leave from from from from from his
role as career of the show before the before before
he was premiered, and I I have thoughts about that,
but that's not here nor there. I hope that if
this season is, if this season is a reflection of him,

(01:04:21):
I hope that that they'll consider bringing him back for
the next season is because it's so far fantastic and
so I'm sure I think, I'm sure the first episode
was a reflection of his work that he put into it,
and if that's that's indication of how great he is,
and he needs to be involved in some way. But
Nomam Pam is too, and I want to be really
intentional in saying that, So my numba Pam is to

(01:04:42):
the signing of the recent spending bill that essentially just
allows prie flax. We waived over the US embassies for
one point one point two trillion dollars. I'm not inherently
mad with Biden himself. People are biding for it because
I understand. I understand the why. I understand the like
he signed it, because it was so much work to

(01:05:03):
get this bill passed before before government closed down, which
obviously they don't want.

Speaker 4 (01:05:07):
They don't want government.

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
To close, which part of me is like, it's so dumb.
Coming closes does infect all of a sudden in the
worst ways. And I'm always like, that's so funny that
you want to close, because you will make us do
not You will make us like go out, go out
with jobs and go out money when y'all but y'all can't.
Y'all look at therow a tantrum for missing one day
of work when you should get.

Speaker 4 (01:05:25):
Paid for it, but like go.

Speaker 5 (01:05:26):
Off with.

Speaker 4 (01:05:28):
But I'm mad.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
I'm upset that the l g q I two S
plus community was used as a bargaining chip in this way,
like there were over fifty they were over fifty riders
or you know, like riders or like clauses in that
bill that got taken out that we're targeting quern Trans folks,
And one that was kept in was was was to.

Speaker 4 (01:05:51):
Just allow the flying of probably flags of for US embassies.

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
And I'm like, I mean one, as I said, you know,
as I said, as I told John this morning parting,
is like, Wow, we're really on our minds that much,
Like y'all really oppressed about us so.

Speaker 4 (01:06:04):
Badly that you really like we need to take away
your pride.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
Flags, Like, girl, y'all are really stressed about that's wild
an obsession, like let it be known that.

Speaker 4 (01:06:15):
We are at least worth one point true trillion dollars.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
Bitch, Like okay, we're the the queer dollar ist wrong
in this house. But I'm still just like I'm still
really just upset the fact that we had to be
bargaining like this, Like I'm glad, I'm glad that it's
to me, the flag is not the most significant thing
that like right, like like it could be.

Speaker 4 (01:06:35):
It could be a lot worse for so many.

Speaker 3 (01:06:37):
Reasons, but it's just this weird, this weird this word
of like damn, like our gually is really bargaining with
like with our visibility and our representation, like just to
get money. At what point will it be for our
for our rights in our lives, And.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
That's already started exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:06:59):
Yeah, so I'm pressed like opinion about it, but whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
Yeah, and and kind of back to your point Bunny
from earlier, you know, talking about celebrity and all of this, Like,
and I've heard multiple people on social media say this,
this notion of like it's not going to be politicians,
it's not going to be celebrities. Like we've got to
get away from this notion of thinking that these people
are going to be the ones that save us and

(01:07:23):
help us. It's just it's never going to be them.
Their their interests will always be vetted in what's going
to keep them safe and comfortable. And so you know
when people throw out stuff about the government like you
just shared, Like I always tell people I want to
be surprised, Like I literally wake up every day going
I just wish something would surprise me, because it seems

(01:07:46):
like literally everything at this point is just like Okay,
that's to be expected.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
Like it's just very much everyone's doing whatever is in
their best interest because again capitalism, but all.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
That to be said pleasing us.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
So my god, please send us your thoughts, feedback and
emails to Blackfatfempod at gmail dot com. You can also
send us your thoughts via social media's by interacting with
us and our post on Instagram and Twitter by using
Hanno at Blackfatfempod. We also love the new subscribers and
the folks that are watching the videos. Feel free to
leave your comments there. I think it might actually be

(01:08:21):
cool that if we start seeing comments in the videos
and stuff, we'll start checking all of our socials and
answering the questions and thoughts that folks have. So yeah,
leave us your stuff, let us know what's on your mind,
let us know how you respond to these conversations. And
as much as folks are listening and seeing like this
stuff impacts us all like, as much as it may
not feel like it's impacting you right now in this moment,

(01:08:41):
it is coming for you. I've been saying since the
beginning of the show. We're on episode eighty eight, I've
been saying ever since the first episode. If it's gonna
come for us in the morning, it will come for
you in the night.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Honey.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
This stuff is real and and we definitely are paying.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
Attention to huh.

Speaker 4 (01:08:58):
Okay, if you aren't at the.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Table, you're hello or in the freezer ready to be
chopped up. That's what it is coming down to at
this point. Baby, they just is we're all sitting ducks.
But anyway, with that being said, Bunny, where can the
dolls find you?

Speaker 5 (01:09:13):
So they can find me on threads, TikTok, Instagram and
LinkedIn at mackenzie met which is with its and also
they can find im.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
Okay, I was image er. Come on, mmg, I can't
wait to see that rebranding Queen Joho. Where can it
all find you?

Speaker 3 (01:09:35):
Of course, my love is you gonna find me at
Joho downs across all the social saf not there, you
will find me at the nearest rodeo. Give my two
step of my line dancing on the Cowboy Carter because
we'll be released by time the show us out and
I am ready to get you the fuck up.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
Oh yes, I'm sure a whole episode. So for folks
who are listening, just know the episode after this one
will probably be an entire episode about Cowboy Carter and
you're I'm just gonna have to deal with it. We
didn't give you a full episode for the Renaissance. We
talked about some of the visuals, we talked about, you know,
stuff related to it, but we didn't give you a
full episode. But the next episode will probably be an

(01:10:10):
entire episode dedicated to the importance of Cowboy Carter just
just putting that out there now, wanting to make sure
people know that this that this will always be a
Beyonce zone.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
So as for me, you can find me on the
Internet screaming at Gazelle about where these Renny visuals are
because I'm not ready to let it go yet.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
Like how you gonna drop a whole three hour movie
and then not put it on streaming for me to
watch at my leisure.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
You did it with the Netflix one, you did.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
You do it for everything else, Jazelle, but you can't
do it for this one.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Huh. I'm not.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
I can't get the Renaissance link, so I can't stream
it at my leisure so I can watch it on
a plane in my vision pros.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
I can't do that, Jazelle. Okay, all right, I still
love you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
I'm still rocking the perfume, I'm still using your haircare products.
So I think people think that I have an issue
with Jazelle. Jazelle's not I have no problem with Jazelle.
I love her to death. I just talked to her
this way because I love her. I love Jaselle so much,
but I'm gonna need her to make choices that benefit
me too, And at this point in time, I need

(01:11:16):
that streaming link, Jaselle.

Speaker 2 (01:11:17):
I need it, I really do.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
Anyway, you can also find me at doctor John Paul
or you can visit the website ww dot doctor Johnpaul
dot com. We'd like to thank our producer Bei Wang
for handling all of the logistics to make the show happen.
We also want to thank our supervising producer Rebecca Ramos
and Anahastia for the support that they give us, because
my Lord Jesus Christ, don't we all need a little
bit of support. We would also like to shout out

(01:11:41):
our wonderful editor engineer Sir mix a Lot Chris Rogers
for all that they do with the show and down
to the youtubes because also without them, there'd be no show.
This is another one. Thank you for listening, Stay black, fat,
finin fabulous and remember he who laughs first, last longest.
I love us for real, bad.

Speaker 5 (01:12:10):
Full of divestment in your community, in such a vibrant
and beautiful city at that, and you can still dream
of something better, not only for yourself, but for others
around you. You know, that's something that can't really be
taken away from you, right, And I think there's also
no way I'm not using those skills for the rest
of my life, well into my eighties, you know, and nineties.
It's a highly, highly transferable skill.

Speaker 4 (01:12:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
It ain't nobody more resourceful than a black person, y'all.
I always say that just we'd be so resourceful and
we just know how to how to just And that's
why I was going to ask you to kind of
doubling back to the thought, like I don't know, before
we go to commercial, I did want to ask you,
what are your thoughts on South Side the show about
how accurate that is in terms of repping Chicago and

(01:12:56):
now it informs the way you feel about Chicago as well.

Speaker 5 (01:13:01):
Outside the show. Probably one of the most accurate depictions
of plaque Chicago wins I ever seen on television, So hilarious,
and a lot of the things that they write about
in this show I have experienced directly in personally of
the show.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
Is amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
I think I'm gonna start from episode one and watch
it again so that way I can retake it in
because it's just such a good show, especially the Oh
my god, it is so good. It is such a
good show. It is so oddly funny. The writing on
it is perfect. But with that being said, we actually
have to take a break, and so before Eagle Eye

(01:13:42):
cuts the core on both us and Bunny, we are
going to come back more and we're going to talk
more about what's on our plate.

Speaker 6 (01:13:50):
We'll be back in a second.

Speaker 4 (01:13:57):
Welcome back, Pam.

Speaker 3 (01:13:59):
This week we're taking our food back because we could
not have Bunny here, a Chicago native and not talk
about food. Because I know folks about some good food.
So okay, we we we know that, you know, so
we want to ask what food do you like?

Speaker 4 (01:14:16):
Push coogo on the map. I'll I'll start.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
I'll start about some foods for fruit, brought food, foods
for my hood, Josh about there and then and then
and then we'll get to you, Bunny. So since I'm
a Northcalm native, I'm gonna keep it in Norcow. I
live in, So now I'm gonna keep in nor Cow.
I grew up next to Fremont, which is home to
the largest Afghan community in the US.

Speaker 4 (01:14:33):
And the way, the way.

Speaker 3 (01:14:35):
I tear up some Afghan with some cofta kebabs, like
you cannot find it anywhere else besides in Fremont, and
the way, Oh there's this eggplant dish.

Speaker 4 (01:14:43):
I love so much of it. Try this ship, you
try this ship, you try this Oh my.

Speaker 3 (01:14:50):
That's so so so bombed. So like Afghan food that
the Bay has such has some of the best, in
my opinion, the best Asian dasporic food. Like I really
think about one living in a living area where in
literally a mile of my house was Laotian, Mongolian tide.
How many Japanese, Chinese, uh, the Pino Vietnamese like all

(01:15:13):
that within a mile, right, but you get every part
of the of the diaspa. And so the way I
think about Chinese typically an Indian food. Anything in my
hometown soccopaneer. No one can touch it, no one can
touch it. And some dosas I'm not had, I am
not a dosa and so long I fuck with dosa
is heavy my childhood. There's not a place around here

(01:15:33):
that I found that Deven does dosas, So I'm I'm
in the hunt and when.

Speaker 4 (01:15:39):
Good dosa, please let me know. And lastly, you can't
forget about how much you could fil pino food there
is in the Bay.

Speaker 3 (01:15:44):
Oh do you know how much I miss Do you
know how much I missed living ten minutes from a
jolly be Oh my god, That's that's why I miss
sometimes the most is I used to live touch from
Jolly Being. Now would go there all the time my friends,
And now I'm like, is there one even around here?

Speaker 4 (01:15:58):
Anywhere?

Speaker 3 (01:15:58):
Like I have to go like twenty thirty minutes to
find some good loom bea And I said, I mean good,
Oh my god? Why so far there is? Because there
are some places that have a good loomia. Okay, I
have to travel far from my pond sia, I travel
far from for my dobo, and I just I just
missed accessibility that I would have when I.

Speaker 4 (01:16:18):
Was in when I was in the Bay.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
Maybe maybe there's a spot nearby that I don't know yet,
So someone who listens to the show and lives in
my area can put me on.

Speaker 4 (01:16:26):
But right now I know nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:16:27):
But those those things are the things that I'm like
h Norco got it going on all the way in
those in those places. So that that's me, bunny. How
about you?

Speaker 5 (01:16:40):
Oh my gosh, do we have time for my full list?

Speaker 4 (01:16:43):
Oh? Please? How much?

Speaker 5 (01:16:48):
Definitely it's a lot of grease, which I love, and
I know there's gonna be some Michelin star A Ward
winning shows are gonna cringe it that answer. But gotta
have our Gie or Donald's gotta have our the naughtis,
it's the Thing Crust. It's Chicago heart Dogs. I love
Clark Street Dogs. Personally, it's the Heralds. It's the corn

(01:17:09):
beef sandwiches. I love. Also ap Deli. Oh, it's the
vegan Indian food because I wish I could be friends
with dairy, but dairy does not want to be my friend.
But the vegan so good. Also, one of my most
favorite Costa Rican restaurants, Razoo Food is amazing. It is

(01:17:33):
byo B which brings me to the drinks in Chicago,
so both alcoholic and for sober curious folks. Bomb all
the way. And then one of my most favorite sandwich
coffee shops is on the South side of Chicago. It's
called Afro Joe's Incredible Sandwiches. Pastries, hot teas Black owned,

(01:17:54):
and they have an outside where dog lovers can keep
their dog pounds on the outside.

Speaker 3 (01:17:58):
Yeah, oh my lord, you keep your dogs over there.

Speaker 4 (01:18:02):
You don't around me, but keeping over there.

Speaker 6 (01:18:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:06):
We have a couple of restaurants where I live at.
I don't know if any of you are familiar with
Lazy Dog. With Lazy Dog is the same way. They
have a patio where they love. Their food is good.
But they do have a patio, and a lot of
the restaurants that are popping up over by where I live,
they have patios now for animals and stuff that I'm
seeing more and more people bring their you know, their
dogs and stuff out, and so that that's been cool.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
You know. So I'm not go ahead, Were you gonna
say something no.

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
Okay, okay, yeah, I was gonna say because I want
to make sure I don't step on about it. Now,
I was gonna say a lot of folks. So I'm
probably we're probably gonna get some heat from this from
our listeners. But you know what, ain't nothing that we
can't deal with. There are there is a lot of talk. Okay,
let me let me address the family. This is a
family conversation. There are a lot of people who like

(01:18:53):
to come out, who like to come to the table
and just say, oh, you can't the Beck's Mexican food
is in Texas. The best this is that is in
the here and the no, no, no, The best Mexican
food and the best Chinese food is in so Cow.
I'm sorry, I don't want to hear it. I have

(01:19:13):
been to thirty eight states, thirty eight states of the
fifty states, Okay, because I had to start counting and
I was like, actually, actually been to thirty eight been
to thirty eight states. I have never had Mexican food
or Chinese food that is better than California's, specifically so Caw,
San Diego, all that area down there.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
You can't beat us. You can't. Now, I will give
it to Texas. Texas, they got the barbecue and all that.
On Lock.

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
I will say that Chicago, you got your pizzas, you
got your coney dogs, all of that. That's y'all. Y'all
got the popcorn. Y'all got the popcorn on Lock. I
ain't never get was it Uncle Garrett? Is that who
that is? I go get with it with the with
the different flavors, of the Pope going and it'll make
you it'll make your blood pressure rise because you got
to go to the doctor and take some it's too salty.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
Yeah, Garrette, all that is, y'all, But y'all don't don't
come for us with our Mexican food.

Speaker 1 (01:20:11):
In Chinese food. I'm sorry, it's just real. It's real.
We got the best Chinese food.

Speaker 4 (01:20:17):
I was just saying.

Speaker 3 (01:20:18):
Someone who lives twenty minutes from the border of Mexico
in California agreed, Now I could give I could give
it to Texas. I can give it to Texas because
they also are are a border region. I can give
it to them and the like in their own way.
I've heard some text Max can be bombed people.

Speaker 4 (01:20:36):
I know, people can throw down. I have a friend
who was raised in Texas.

Speaker 3 (01:20:40):
Cami Santa was like, listen, it's not that it's better,
it's just different, and I can I can roll with different.

Speaker 5 (01:20:46):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:20:46):
The text Max is different.

Speaker 3 (01:20:48):
Than I would taste. I would taste, but I will say,
you can never be some tacos. The use can be
some tacos. Like, there's just no way. There's no way
y'all gonna be good being at the border for for
for for for dos, just how easy it is to
get some. So I would say, yes, I'm not now
Chinese food. I will say I'm sus I have not had.

Speaker 4 (01:21:10):
Great Chinese food in Sego.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
If you know that, you let me know, and you again,
I'm probably gonna be on a lot of people's list
of canceled. But I need a Chinese food, So I
tell people Panda Express, like all of those fast food
Chinese feet, that is not Chinese food. I want my
Chinese food where the menu is almost like you you

(01:21:37):
can't see it because the steam from the food has
made has literally taken all the ink out the paper.

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
I want someone in.

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
I want someone in the front yelling at the person
in the back the order.

Speaker 5 (01:21:50):
Need.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
I need that that tells me that it's authentic. I
need to know that there might be a child playing
in the dining room area and the mom or the
is yelling.

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
At that child to sit down.

Speaker 1 (01:22:02):
So by way, like I need the experience, I need
the cultural experience also tea. Someone told me one of
my friends told me that I don't know where I was.
I think it was actually in North Carolina. Someone was
telling me that in most Chinese food places, specifically specifically
Chinese food places in so Cow. They have a secret menu,

(01:22:24):
so the menu that we see is not the actual
menu that they give to other Chinese folks who come
into because.

Speaker 4 (01:22:32):
You think folks are just saying like, yes, I want orange.

Speaker 2 (01:22:34):
Yeah, yeah. They said that. They also have.

Speaker 1 (01:22:38):
Listeners who can tell me are where to go to
get this secret menu, so I can taste it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
Please.

Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
I am open to it, but no, I'm definitely gonna
stick to my guns on this. When Mexican and Chinese
is so caw all day.

Speaker 2 (01:22:53):
I live, I live.

Speaker 4 (01:22:54):
I've been cremen Chinese food too.

Speaker 3 (01:22:55):
So John, when next me visit, we gonna place or
if I I'm gonna come to you and we go
findles as well.

Speaker 4 (01:23:03):
Okay, well, y'all ball, we once again have left y'all hungry.

Speaker 3 (01:23:08):
We go to a buick break so y'all can address
your cravings, grab a snack, and come on back.

Speaker 1 (01:23:21):
All right, everybody, So we're gonna go ahead and get
into our last segment of the show. Your favorite yes, ma'am,
no man, Pam, And this week I'm gonna go ahead
and kick it off. Then Bunny will give it to
you you're yes, ma'am and you're no, ma'am, and then
we'll we'll close out with Joho again for everybody. Yes,
for those of you who might be new to the show,
thank you for listening. But also for those of you
who don't know what yes madame, this is an opportunity

(01:23:44):
for us to either give people their flowers or to
throw them at them. And so what that means for
me this week, my yes, ma'am is seeing Clandese Owens
get what she deserves catch it. This is just a
kind and from reminder, especially to my black people that

(01:24:05):
think that whiteness is going to be their friend and
is going to save them. Baby, it never works out
for you. It didn't work out for Kanye, it didn't
work out. It just it don't. It don't work out
for you. Like a lot of us believe that if
we play the game with white supremacy that it's going
to help us get further, et cetera, et cetera, And no,
it never does, and it only lasts until white people

(01:24:26):
start being white. And I love saying that. That is
something that a friend to our show, Xavier Dello, says,
white people are great until they get white on you
and and and and and it's something to just kind
of pay attention to because we have definitely seen it
happen more than once. So with that being said, seeing
Clande Owens have to, you know, put her tail back

(01:24:46):
between her legs and walk it back to the black
community has been interesting to see. And no, I'm not
celebrating it. No, this won't be a Don Lemon moment.
Don Lemon didn't. There were a lot of things Don
Lemon did do. What he did is totally different than
what Clandis Owens did. And I if we want to
talk about it, we can talk about in a later
episode because we are running low on time. On the

(01:25:07):
other hand, my no man Pam this week, So I
don't want to make it normally I make jokes and i'
kiki about this. I'm just gonna say it and and
kind of let it be what it is. Your favorite
rapper is going to jail.

Speaker 2 (01:25:23):
It is what it is. Diddy is going to jail.
It's just there's no other way to put it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:30):
There's just at this point and it's just sad because
it's like I think, my no, ma'am, as you know,
I'm grateful, so I'll say this, I'm grateful kind of
in a yes man, this is kind of a both
and for me, I'm grateful for the people who had
the bravery to step up and say Diddy did this
to me? Did he did he didn't do this for me?
Or did he was had something to do with this

(01:25:53):
thing that happened to me. I'm really grateful, And I
want to shout out the victims in the sense of saying,
I know, it's hard to put your story out there
and and then have to deal with people not believing you.
Where my no, mam lies is is is the folks
that how do I say this? There there are a
lot of people who did He basically waved carrots in

(01:26:18):
front of a lot of people's faces. He told them
that they were going to be successful, He tried, you know,
he told them that they were gonna he was gonna
give them careers, and and and and again. A lot
of this is and that I want to say, all
of a lot of the stuff that we're seeing that
come out in the news, it's alleged. So I want
to be clear and saying that, you know, we don't
want to get sued. I definitely just want to say
that a lot of this stuff is alleged. However, there

(01:26:42):
there is a lot of stuff where it's you know,
my mom would always say, you know, uh, two people
ain't gonna say the same thing and not be true.
And I'm just looking at a lot of the stuff
that's coming out and a lot of the stuff that
I'm hearing in the news, and I am sending so
much love to the victims. But at the same time,
I'm looking at Diddy and I'm going, girl, why, like

(01:27:02):
like what was it worth it?

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
Like?

Speaker 4 (01:27:05):
What for?

Speaker 5 (01:27:06):
What? Like?

Speaker 1 (01:27:06):
And again I get money power. All of that plays
a lot into this. But my no man Pam this
week is Diddy. And and also to Russell Simmons, they
got his ass over in the Bahamas too, or he
was in Bali.

Speaker 2 (01:27:19):
I take that back.

Speaker 1 (01:27:20):
He was in Bali and they served him his papers too,
So it'll be really I'm really happy to see these
really terrible people in this industry get their come up.

Speaker 5 (01:27:29):
Ince.

Speaker 2 (01:27:30):
So what about you, Bunny, what are your yes man's
and no man pam's this week?

Speaker 5 (01:27:37):
How do I follow that? So? I think I think
I'll say my yes man would be Lsu making it
to the sweet sixteen of.

Speaker 8 (01:27:50):
The NC Double A Women's Championship, and also ratings for
in C Double A women's games being about sixty percent
higher this year and in some cases higher than the
man's team's ratings, which I think is really really exciting
for women's sports.

Speaker 5 (01:28:08):
No, ma'am, I'm gonna have to go to Boeing CEO.

Speaker 2 (01:28:12):
Oh my god, leadership.

Speaker 5 (01:28:14):
Yes, and that is a no man for me because
it comes about five years after two crashes killed three
hundred and forty six people. Yeah, yeah, mostly black and
brown folks. And so the fact that he even had
a choice to step down or was that fired five
years ago is a no man for me.

Speaker 1 (01:28:32):
And this is all coming with me sitting and counting
all the flights that I have to take.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
Oh, oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:28:43):
Yeah, and I'm I'm at me flying back on im
Boeing Max seven threes on.

Speaker 4 (01:28:50):
Sunday, Like, please, Lord Jesus, do not let this be.
Don't let this be the end of mirror not survival. Oh,
just give.

Speaker 2 (01:28:57):
Lane, yeah, just give us the best betraying. Yeah, just
give us a.

Speaker 1 (01:29:03):
Yeah, just kidding, Yeah, go ahead, just put me on
the trip. But even then crash too, because people you know,
I'll say this and then I'll give the fallback over
to you, Joe Hoo. I'll say the frustration is as
I was watching So I was watching the news yesterday
as the news broke about him stepping down, and I
will say, the thing I kept thinking about is greed.

(01:29:23):
There was a there was a person who had come
on and they were talking about how they were so
I think he said it was about maybe five to
ten years ago that they changed the way that their
processes worked, and about how like the oversight of the
planes and all of that, and and it just I
was sitting with him and I was listening to him
talk about how the process has changed, and I just
kept thinking, greed. Greed is going to kill us because

(01:29:46):
people are so consumed with trying to get get a
dollar rather than making sure that people can arrive safely
to their next destination.

Speaker 5 (01:29:55):
So absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:57):
Anyway, what about you doing it?

Speaker 5 (01:30:00):
Will?

Speaker 4 (01:30:00):
So first first, I'll say, cancel owns girl.

Speaker 3 (01:30:02):
If you ever hear this, it is just so funny
that you hate cancel culture and yet it can to cancel.
That's just funny, just eight isn't it ironic? It isn't
just funny for us some time.

Speaker 1 (01:30:15):
Traffic jam when y'all already late, no smoking sound on
your cigarette, bring.

Speaker 7 (01:30:24):
Exactly I live, and I will say like I'll say,
I don't wish I don't wish incarceration on any what
person or personal color.

Speaker 3 (01:30:33):
I do wish justice to be served. So I'm like, ugh,
I don't want anyone to be incrustrated. But also I
hope something. I hope there is a form of justice
that's happening here with didd because ship needs to change.

Speaker 4 (01:30:46):
My s Mam PANM is gonna go to x mend
to the show x ME ninety seven.

Speaker 3 (01:30:50):
The reason made on Disney Plus as a as a
chance I put to the channel.

Speaker 4 (01:30:54):
The show notes, well, I'm so old this channel. Disney
Plus as a sequel to.

Speaker 3 (01:30:58):
The nineties series, and oh my god, it was a
beautiful series premiere for so many reasons, but especially because
of how they really became even more vocal about their
themes into racism, homophobia, trans et cetera, and so on
and so forth. Like people X Men has always been
my favorite comic since I was a kid. It's been
the one thing that I've been praying and waiting for

(01:31:18):
in the mcu. Like I'm said at the Finding the
Finding bringing up there, I'm happy that that Disney has
has the rights to it.

Speaker 4 (01:31:25):
I mean, Disney is.

Speaker 3 (01:31:26):
Interesting the day, the right style she do to do
this work now, and I'm excited for it because I mean,
this season was just a This season premiere was just
a perfect launch.

Speaker 4 (01:31:35):
So I hope we'll continue being this powerful because it's
just so so good and like like I mean, it
just shows. I think it's gonna be.

Speaker 3 (01:31:43):
A show that really reinforces how amazing even anime storytelling
can be and how like like and we think of
like world building, like world building and the lens of
X Men is so fascinating and so cool, and I
think there's so many allegories and parallels to our world
today that I think people can.

Speaker 4 (01:31:58):
Take from the show.

Speaker 3 (01:31:59):
And I hope, I hope this is I hope the
show last for a long time. I have choice words
to of how the creator of the show, but Bo
Demile was was forced to leave from from from from
from his role as career of the show before the
before before he was.

Speaker 4 (01:32:13):
Premiered, and I I have thoughts about that, but that's
not here nor there. I hope that if this season is.

Speaker 3 (01:32:20):
If this season is a reflection of him, I hope
that that they'll consider bringing him back for the next
season is because it's so far fantastic, and so I'm
sure I think I'm sure the first episode was a
reflection of his work that he put into it, and
if that's that's indication of how great he is, and
he needs to be involved in some way.

Speaker 4 (01:32:36):
But nomam, Pam is too, and I want to be
really intentional in saying this, So my.

Speaker 3 (01:32:42):
Numba pam is to the signing of the recent spending
bill that essentially just allows prie flax. We waved over
the US embassies for one point one point two trillion dollars.
I'm not inherently mad with Biden himself. People are biding
for it because I understand. I understand the why. I
understand that, like he signed it because it was so

(01:33:02):
much work to get this bill passed before before government
closed down, which obviously they didn't want. They don't want
government to close, which part of me is like, it's
so dumb. Coming closes does infect all of a sudden
the worst ways, And I'm always like, that's so funny
that you want to close because.

Speaker 4 (01:33:15):
You will make us do nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:33:16):
You will make us like go out, go out with jobs,
to go out money when you'll but y'all can't. Y'all
look at the tantrum for missing one day of work
when you should get paid for it, but like go off.

Speaker 4 (01:33:26):
Well, but I'm mad.

Speaker 3 (01:33:30):
I'm upset that the l g q I two s
plus community was used as a bargaining chip in this way,
like there were over fifty they were over fifty riders
or you know, like riders or like clauses in that
bill that got taken out that we're targeting queer trans folks.
And one that was kept in was was was to

(01:33:51):
just allow the flying of probably fly summer US embassies.
And I'm like, I mean one, as I said, you know,
as I said, as I told John this morning, I
was like, wow, we're really on our minds that much,
Like y'all really oppressed about us.

Speaker 4 (01:34:04):
So badly that you really like we need to take
away your pride flags. Like girl, y'all are really stressed
about that's.

Speaker 3 (01:34:10):
Wild an obsession, Like let it be known that we
are at least worth one point true trillion dollars, bitch,
Like okay, we're the the queer dollar is wrong in
this house. But I'm still just like I'm still really
just upset the fact that we had to be bargaining
like this, Like I'm glad, I'm glad that it's to me,

(01:34:31):
the flag is not the most significant thing that like right,
like like it could be.

Speaker 4 (01:34:36):
It could have been a lot worse for so many reasons.

Speaker 3 (01:34:39):
But it's just this weird, this weird this word of
like damn, like our gually is really bargaining with like
with our visibility and our representation, like just to get money.
At what point will it be for our for our
rights in our lives.

Speaker 2 (01:34:55):
And that's already started exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:35:00):
Yeah, so I'm pressed like opinion about it, but whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:35:03):
Yeah, And and kind of back to your point Bunny
from earlier, you know, talking about celebrity and all of this,
Like and I've heard multiple people on social media say this,
this notion of like it's not going to be politicians,
it's not going to be celebrities. Like we've got to
get away from this notion of thinking that these people
are going to be the ones that save us and

(01:35:23):
help us. It's just it's never going to be them.
Their their interests will always be vetted in what's going
to keep them safe and comfortable, and so you know
when people throw out stuff about the government like you
just shared, Like I always tell people I want to
be surprised, Like I literally wake up every day going
I just wish something would surprise me, because it seems

(01:35:46):
like literally everything at this point is just like, Okay,
that's to be expected.

Speaker 2 (01:35:50):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (01:35:51):
Like it's just very much everyone's doing whatever is in
their best interest because again capitalism. But all that to
be said, pleasing us, So my god, please send us
your thoughts feedback at emails to Blackfatfempod at gmail dot com.
You can also send us your thoughts via social media's
by interacting with us and our post on Instagram and

(01:36:12):
Twitter by using hanno at Blackfatfempod. We also love the
new subscribers and the folks that are watching the videos.
Feel free to leave your comments there. I think it
might actually be cool that if we start seeing comments
in the videos and stuff, we'll start checking all of
our socials and answering the questions and thoughts that folks have.
So yeah, leave us your stuff, let us know what's
on your mind, let us know how you respond to

(01:36:33):
these conversations. And as much as folks are listening and
seeing like this stuff impacts us all like, as much
as it may not feel like it's impacting you right
now in this moment, it is coming for you. I've
been saying since the beginning of the show. We're on
episode eighty eight. I've been saying ever since the first episode.
If it's gonna come for us in the morning, it
will come for you in the night.

Speaker 2 (01:36:53):
Honey.

Speaker 1 (01:36:54):
This stuff is real and we definitely at paying attention
to huh.

Speaker 4 (01:36:58):
Okay said, baby, if you aren't at the table, you're.

Speaker 2 (01:37:01):
Hello or in the freezer ready to be chapped up.

Speaker 1 (01:37:04):
That's what is coming down to at this point, baby,
they just is we're all sitting ducks. But anyway, with
that being said, Bunny, where can the dolls find you?

Speaker 5 (01:37:13):
So they can find me on threads, TikTok, Instagram and
LinkedIn at mackenzie met which is with an us and
also they can find.

Speaker 2 (01:37:22):
Im at Okay. I was image ered.

Speaker 1 (01:37:25):
Come on, mmg, I can't wait to see that rebranding
Queen Joho.

Speaker 2 (01:37:33):
Where can it all find you?

Speaker 3 (01:37:36):
Of course, my love that you can find me at
Joho Downs across all the socials. If not there, you
will find me at the nearest rodeo give my two
step of my line dancing on the Cowboy Carter because
we'll be released by time the show is out and
I am ready to get you the fuck up.

Speaker 1 (01:37:49):
Oh yes, I'm sure a whole episode. So for folks
who are listening, just know the episode after this one,
we'll probably be an entire episode about Cowboy Carter and
you're just gonna have to deal with it. We didn't
give you a full episode for the Renaissance. We talked
about some of the visuals, we talked about, you know,
stuff related to it, but we didn't give you a
full episode. But the next episode will probably be an

(01:38:10):
entire episode dedicated to the importance of Cowboy Carter. Just
putting that out there now, wanting to make sure people
know that this that this will always be a Beyonce zone.
So as for me, you can find me on the
Internet screaming at Gazelle about where these renny visuals are
because I'm not.

Speaker 2 (01:38:30):
Ready to let it go yet.

Speaker 1 (01:38:32):
Like how you gonna drop a whole three hour movie
and then not put it on streaming for me to
watch at my leisure. You did it with the Netflix one.
You do it for everything else, Jazelle, but you can't
do it for this one.

Speaker 2 (01:38:44):
Huh. I'm not.

Speaker 1 (01:38:45):
I can't get the Renaissance link so I can stream
it at my leisure so I can watch it on
a plane in my vision pros. I can't do that, Jazelle. Okay,
all right. I still love you. I'm still rocking the perfume.
I'm still using your haircare products. So I think people
think that I have an issue with Jazelle. Jazelle's not.
I have no problem with Chazel. I love her to death.

(01:39:07):
I just talked to her this way because I love her.
I love Jaselle so much, but I'm gonna need her
to make choices that benefit me too, And at this
point in time, I need that streaming link, Jaselle.

Speaker 2 (01:39:17):
I need it, I really do. Anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:39:20):
You can also find me at Doctor John Paul or
you can visit the website ww dot doctor Johnpaul dot com.
We'd like to thank our producer Bei Wang for handling
all of the logistics to make the show happen. We
also want to thank our supervising producer Rebecca Ramos and
Anahastia for the support that they give us, because my
Lord Jesus Christ, don't we all need a little bit
of support. We would also like to shout out our

(01:39:42):
wonderful editor engineer, Sir mix a lot, Chris Rogers for
all that they do with the show, and down to
the youtubes because also without them, there'd be no show.
This is another one. Thank you for listening, Stay black, fat,
fin and fabulous and remember he who laughs first, last, longest.
I love us for Rea A bad

Speaker 5 (01:40:09):
Yeah.

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