November 29, 2024 • 23 mins
Host Dr. Vanessa Tyler has an in-depth discussion with Dr. Timothy E. Lewis, Associate Professor and Director of Black Studies at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville (SIUE). Dr. Lewis is the first Black professor to receive tenure in the Department of Political Science at SIUE. Their discussion includes a conversation about the 're-education of white Americans' when it comes to race relations in this country, The "Black proximity defense" when accused of bias or racism, and the upcoming event "Black - A Celebration of Black Research".
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ever heard anybody say I have black friends, so I
can't be racist.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I have a lot of African American friends.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You might remember that former Virginia Governor Ralph Northam tying
himself up in knots, explaining how a photo of a
person in blackface standing next to another and a KKK
get up, including pointy hood, was discovered in his old
college photos.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I went to school with, played ball with, and I
suspect I've had as much exposure to to people of
color as anybody. It seems to be part of the
white racial script to default this notion of having black friends.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
So you think you have black friends, but do you really?
In black Land? And now as a brown person, you
just feel so invisible where we're from, Brothers and sisters.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I welcome you to this joyful exaia.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
We celebrate freedom where we are. I know someone heard
something and we're going.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
We the people means all the people, the black information
that work presents Blackland.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
With your host Vanessa Tyler, the phrase we've all heard before,
but I have black friends, makes Professor Timothy Lewis cringe
because there is so much more behind that statement, which
he explores in his a celebration of black research. Here
to break down his findings, is the first black professor
to receive tenure in the political science department at Southern
(01:28):
Illinois University, Edwardsville, Doctor Timothy Lewis. Doctor Lewis, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Good afternoon, and thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
First talk a little about your research. What did you find?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
If I can back up a little bit and can
I'll tell you what sparked this research. Yes, so doing
what some people have termed, you know, with the racial awakening,
you know, the protests. In twenty twenty, following the death
so RONNERD. Taylor, A Lotta Aubrey, George Floyd, I was
asked to be on several panels. I was doing panels
(02:06):
and conversations and keynotes weekly basically, and it was during
this time that I really had upfront conversations, particularly with
white people, about you know, how society's institutions, its cultures,
its structures really oppressed black people. And it was in
(02:26):
these conversations that a particular quote from doctor King just
kept coming.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
To my mind about the need for a re education.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
That white people, by their privilege, tend to only know whiteness,
white culture, white norms, and I landed on the phrase,
you know, I have black friends, because whenever a white
person is accused of racism or racial ignorance, they defaulted
that to that phrase, you know, I have black friends.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So it's like black proximity as a defense.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
That's how they asserted. And it happens in a host
of ways, and it happens despite, you know, the achievement
of the person. And in my research, I began with
this story of a waitress named Tabitha Duncan who was
went viral back in twenty eighteen, and her media response was,
(03:28):
you know, I didn't mean it, I have black friends.
But we also saw in the height of the presidential
election this year, during the Republican primary, when Nicki Hagley
could not confirm that slavery was actually the cause of
the Civil War, she defaulted to the phrase, of course
(03:48):
I knew that, and she said, follow that up, what
I have black friends.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I had black friends growing up.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
It is a very talked about thing.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
We have a big history in South Carolina. So no
matter that the level of a chief men or pathway
in life, it seems to be part of the white
racial script to default this notion of having black friends.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So in your research, in your belief, we basically in
America have race all wrong and that we should be
re educated. America should be re educated about race. But
whose responsibility is it to re educate about race.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
It's not black people's responsibility to educate white people about
white systems. Black oppression exists because of white institution, structure, systems, culture,
the norms, and it isn't black people's responsibility to alleviate
their own impression. That responsibility falls upon the creators of
the system and the institutions, which are white people.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Now that President elect Trump has vowed and promises to
kind of excuse the phrase, blow up all the institutions,
So then from that, maybe it is a good thing
for us. Maybe these institutions with its institutionalized racism should
(05:11):
be blown up.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Maybe this is sounds cynical, but I do not trust
that even if they were dismantled some of these systems institutions,
that they were replacing with.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
More equitable ones.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
And we look at history and we look at the
creation of various institutions in America, whether we're talking about education,
health care, or law enforcement. Every institution was created either
to regulate or control people of color or it was
created without people of color at the table. That has
(05:47):
been a consistent pattern throughout history, and I do not
believe that that pattern would be changed or ended, particularly
in the Trump administration.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Dei becomes such a dirty phrase and so hated. How
did that happen?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Well, Diversity, equity inclusion is not a new concept. As
many people may think that the phrase dei or diverse
ecuy inclusion as a busword, it's only about four or
five years old. But the concepts go all the way
back to the Civil Rights movement, the notion that it
(06:37):
needs to be a greater presence of people of color,
of different people, different backgrounds, Those people need to be included,
and then those people, once included need to be treated
in a way that it's fair and equitable and in
some ways compensates for the hurt and harm that they
have experience.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Ben at no fault of their own.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
So that those concepts, those core principles, are not new.
They became to be a dirty word and associate with
words like woken and and things as really political strategies.
There is a fear that because America is becoming more colored,
particularly the increases in UH Latino or LATINX populations. The
(07:21):
increases in black populations in creating increasing Asian American populations,
while simultaneous there are population decreases among white Americans that
as these demographics grow statistically that that will siphon power
away from or white white Americans. It's something called the
(07:44):
white replacement theory or the greater replacement theory, as some
scholars call it. De I was a political strategy and
a way to prevent that from happening by making verse
equent inclusion bad things, dirty words.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
That was a political ploy.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
As an attempt tonifi or mitigate this shift and population
that was observed, which a lot of people associated with
they shift in political power.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
We won the popular vote by records, so nobody can
say that anymore about us.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Nobody can say.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
That, yet he wins a trifecta, the White House, the House,
in the Senate. How did this even happen?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
But as a political scientist, this election was frustrating, not
necessarily because of the outcome, because the outcome was predictable.
It was frustrating because the narratives that you heard from
the media were somewhere toned down to both historical and
statistical facts.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
So President Trump.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Did not really make gains among minorities. It was siscal
tie between what he got from black men in this
election where he got in past elections. He made minimum
gains among the Latin or LATINX citizens. It wasn't the
(09:14):
narrative that you hear from the media. That is a
fact that the media is over it's overlooking, and that
is that the most consistent predictor of voting behavior is race.
Since the passage of the Civil rights at the nineteen
sixty four that is sixty years ago, the Democratic candidate
(09:38):
has never received a majority of the white vote in
no presidential election. Even with the efficacy of the Obama
presidency election in two thousand and eight, he still did
not get more than fifty percent of the white vote.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Or when we have faced down and possible lots told
we're not ready, or that we shouldn't try, or that
we can't, generations of Americans have responded with a simple
creed that sums up the spirit of a people. Yes
we can, Yes we can, Yes we can.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
So what that informs us is that technically white Americans,
no matter the state of the economy, the moral altitude,
or on this election, you know the criminal record of
the candidate, they are going to vote Republican. And in
this particular election, the turnout was just higher. It wasn't
(10:47):
that President Trump was able to dismantle a Democratic Democrat
coalition or even increase substantially his numbers of racially minoritized people.
It was simply that the status quote stay, and that
status quote was that white Americans turned out to the post.
What we will see once all boats are counting is
that it was not that the landslide again that the
(11:10):
media has framed it to be. We will see pretty
consistent outcomes as we've seen for most presidential elections.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
You mentioned a documentary. Would you talk a little bit
about that and what were some of the answers when
you went out and talked to black people.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
The documentary again, it's titled do you Know You Have
Black Friends? And it's a direct question towards white Americans
who will affirm black proximity as a way to generate
themselves of racism or racial ignorance. And that there were
several things that I found, I get you to call
them big takeaways and composing this documentary. One that when
(11:53):
white people affirm that they have black friends, they are
only associating blackness with dark skin, rounded nasal cavity, or
certain texture of hair. They're only associating blackness with what
they see visibly. They likely have no relative consciousness of
(12:15):
the experiences that black people face every day, and they
don't want to know those experiences because if they can
affirm that their black quote unquote friend is experiencing an
oppressive existence, and they deem this person actually as a friend,
(12:36):
they are morally obligated by their concept of friend to
do something for this person. But if they remain ignorant,
and then they're exonerating themselves from ever having to do
anything to change the system or change the experiences of
that black friend.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
But also I learned.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
That a lot of the black stories are not being told.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
In this documentary.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
You will hear from individuals who were our legacies of
the Roadswood massacre. You will hear from individuals who were
part of the movement for racial integration in the United
States and how for some they were resilient enough to fight,
(13:22):
and for how others it totally changed their life trajectory,
never even completing a college degree, even when they had
the opportune to do so you will hear about the
residual effects of racism.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Hear from those alive today how they had to deal
with it back then.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
You just stayed in your place. You just was black,
and your white folks did what they were wanted to do.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
They feel that they are just were less superior to you.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
That was just how it was.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
You know, you know, if you can't do this because
you're black. Every one of them living long lives but
not short memories of racism. How many whites were cruel, mean, disrespectful,
the impact will never go away.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
How that racism not only affects the person when the
incident occurs, but it affects that person for years to come,
and it affects how they parent, how they interacting the workplace,
how they show up in their religious institutions. You're gonna
hear about race and racism in an unfiltered way that
(14:31):
you probably haven't heard before. And I am excited to.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Share it with the world.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
It sounds very exciting, But I'm wondering if that's what
we talk about when we talk about from slavery, the
effects we all feel still to this day.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
It is undeniable that slavery and Jim Crow still have
effects today. One we need to realize that slavery in
Jim Crow was not that long ago. One of my
political science classes, I always asked them know how long
ago was slavery? And I always termed, in terms of generations,
(15:07):
how many generations do we have to go back to
get back to slavery? And I say it's no, it's
like four great great great great grandparents, or is it
so many? And there's always this high, high number. And
I always use myself as an example. I was born
in nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I am eight of nine.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Children born to the union of Perry Lewis and Irma Lewis.
My mother, Irma Lewis, was born in nineteen forty five.
Her father, not a great grandfather, which makes of my
grandfather only grand not any greats, was born in eighteen
ninety six, and its oldest brother was a slave. When
(15:48):
you think about it in that context, that means I
am literally one generation and removed from slavery, and that
my parents grew up in the legacy the realities of
Jim Crow in the Jim Crow South. So it wasn't
that long ago. We're not talking about something that happened
hundreds of years ago. There are about eight million African
(16:10):
Americans alive today who survived the horrors of Jim Crow.
So this isn't something that's that long ago. So though
those effects are still there, because it really wasn't anything
that's far off in the past.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Doctor Lewis says there are some Blacks who have had
enough of this talk about race. It's in the past.
In fact, they rather not even discuss it in today's America.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
There is a reality that.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
It's just true for Black Americans, but for all races
of minoritists, and get close enough to whiteness, then I
can alleviate the oppression that I experience as a person
of color. This was very heavily present at the turn
of the century when you had Black Americans who were
of lighter pigmentation and they did something called passing because
(17:04):
they had lighter skin tone and not as pronounced features,
they would try to pass as white. The psychology behind
that is that if I can get close enough in
proximity to whiteness, then I improve my existence. And that
is the same through through various studies.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
That is the same.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Mindset of black people who to some degree want to
abandon black affiliation for white affiliation. The notion is if
I can get close enough to this identity, close enough
to this ex experience of privilege, and I don't face
the oppression that black people are assigned to face in
(17:45):
a racialized society.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
So they're just as much to blame as this.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Friends, Yes, just as much at fault because by them
not affirming their blackness, they are validating the moral corruptness
that exists under a wide uppressive, racialized system.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
So what are we to do? What's the answer? What
are black people to do? Those of us who understand,
live with it, deal with it, and willing to acknowledge it.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Well, one we have to be courageous enough to call
it out wherever it exists. One of my favorite historical
pieces of doctor King's Letter from the Birmingham Jail. And
many people psite Doctor King's Letter from the Birmingham Jail,
and they use it in the philosophy courses, in course,
some political theory, history, and even sociology.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
But few people know why that letter was written.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
You see, when doctor King was incarcerated in Birmingham or
protesting without a permit, many of his evangelical peers and
pastors wrote a option and condemning him for breaking the law.
Of course, under the jail Christian principles, you are to
obey the laws of the land. And so doctor King's
(19:08):
letter is a direct response to his peers condemning him.
And what he does is he takes a courageous stand
by saying, I indeed consciously broke the law, but I
did so to call out an oppressive system. And even
in this moment, I'm going to call out my peers
(19:29):
and colleagues for hiding behind perverted notions of Christianity in
order that sustain oppression. So what we have to do
is we have to have the courage to call it
out wherever it is. Something I always tell my students
is that racism is prevalent in places that is comfortable,
(19:51):
and by calling it out, we make it an uncomfortable space.
So that's something that that black people should always do
and always have the courage to do, is to call
out oppression, call out of marginalization, and call out outright
racism wherever it exists, to.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Make the good trouble.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yes, that's right.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Talk about the upcoming evening of scholars. What is that about?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
So we live in a.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Time where there are constant efforts to ban diversity are inclusion.
There are states that are in school districts and school
boards that are banning the teaching of African American history
and culture and literature. We're having some of our greatest writers,
(20:39):
like Tony Morrison being removed from from from library shelves,
and that needs to be a if I can dip
into the culture from it, it needs to be a clap back.
There needs to be something that says blackness and it's
full cultural proudness needs to be celebrated, It needs to
(21:03):
be observed, it needs to be acknowledged. So this evening
is it is literally entitled black and it's a celebration
of black research. We have some nationally renowned researchers at
Southern Illinois University Atwisville, and some of their research will
be profile and at that event that will also be
the screening or the premiere of the documentary, and we
(21:27):
will have a black band that will be black speakers.
We're going to have an evening that that that claps
back and shows that that blackness not only as an
area of cultural study, but as a legitimate academic discipline
that confers upon students transferable skills they can use in
(21:48):
the real world. Deserves its place and it's here to stay.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Doctor Lewis, How can we learn more?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Well, you can.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Visit the SIU website on the Political Science page. There
is a full page and description of the event. There's
a link on how to RSVP for the event. The
event is free and open to the public, and come
out and join us. I can guarantee you it will
be an evening that confirms and that legitimizes the legacy
(22:24):
of blackness. The legacy of blackness sometimes is overshadowed by
the oppression that we face, and we do face oppression.
But this evening is about tryumph and about how we
have affirmed ourselves even in oppressive institutions like higher education.
And we're going to celebrate that on day and the date.
(22:47):
The date is February the nineteenth. It will be only
campus of Southern Illinois University. It will start at six
in the evening.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Doctor Timothy Lewis from si U e s Southern Illinois University, Edwardsville.
What an assignment you have breaking down race in the
troubled history of America. I'm Vanessa Tyler Like and subscribe Blackland.
Let me know what you think at Vanessa Tyler one
on Instagram. Remember a new episode drops every Friday.
Ever heard anybody say I have black friends, so I
can't be racist.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
I have a lot of African American friends.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
You might remember that former Virginia Governor Ralph Northam tying
himself up in knots, explaining how a photo of a
person in blackface standing next to another and a KKK
get up, including pointy hood, was discovered in his old
college photos.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I went to school with, played ball with, and I
suspect I've had as much exposure to to people of
color as anybody. It seems to be part of the
white racial script to default this notion of having black friends.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
So you think you have black friends, but do you really?
In black Land? And now as a brown person, you
just feel so invisible where we're from, Brothers and sisters.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I welcome you to this joyful exaia.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
We celebrate freedom where we are. I know someone heard
something and we're going.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
We the people means all the people, the black information
that work presents Blackland.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
With your host Vanessa Tyler, the phrase we've all heard before,
but I have black friends, makes Professor Timothy Lewis cringe
because there is so much more behind that statement, which
he explores in his a celebration of black research. Here
to break down his findings, is the first black professor
to receive tenure in the political science department at Southern
(01:28):
Illinois University, Edwardsville, Doctor Timothy Lewis. Doctor Lewis, Welcome.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Good afternoon, and thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
First talk a little about your research. What did you find?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
If I can back up a little bit and can
I'll tell you what sparked this research. Yes, so doing
what some people have termed, you know, with the racial awakening,
you know, the protests. In twenty twenty, following the death
so RONNERD. Taylor, A Lotta Aubrey, George Floyd, I was
asked to be on several panels. I was doing panels
(02:06):
and conversations and keynotes weekly basically, and it was during
this time that I really had upfront conversations, particularly with
white people, about you know, how society's institutions, its cultures,
its structures really oppressed black people. And it was in
(02:26):
these conversations that a particular quote from doctor King just
kept coming.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
To my mind about the need for a re education.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
That white people, by their privilege, tend to only know whiteness,
white culture, white norms, and I landed on the phrase,
you know, I have black friends, because whenever a white
person is accused of racism or racial ignorance, they defaulted
that to that phrase, you know, I have black friends.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So it's like black proximity as a defense.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
That's how they asserted. And it happens in a host
of ways, and it happens despite, you know, the achievement
of the person. And in my research, I began with
this story of a waitress named Tabitha Duncan who was
went viral back in twenty eighteen, and her media response was,
(03:28):
you know, I didn't mean it, I have black friends.
But we also saw in the height of the presidential
election this year, during the Republican primary, when Nicki Hagley
could not confirm that slavery was actually the cause of
the Civil War, she defaulted to the phrase, of course
(03:48):
I knew that, and she said, follow that up, what
I have black friends.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
I had black friends growing up.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
It is a very talked about thing.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
We have a big history in South Carolina. So no
matter that the level of a chief men or pathway
in life, it seems to be part of the white
racial script to default this notion of having black friends.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So in your research, in your belief, we basically in
America have race all wrong and that we should be
re educated. America should be re educated about race. But
whose responsibility is it to re educate about race.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
It's not black people's responsibility to educate white people about
white systems. Black oppression exists because of white institution, structure, systems, culture,
the norms, and it isn't black people's responsibility to alleviate
their own impression. That responsibility falls upon the creators of
the system and the institutions, which are white people.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Now that President elect Trump has vowed and promises to
kind of excuse the phrase, blow up all the institutions,
So then from that, maybe it is a good thing
for us. Maybe these institutions with its institutionalized racism should
(05:11):
be blown up.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Maybe this is sounds cynical, but I do not trust
that even if they were dismantled some of these systems institutions,
that they were replacing with.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
More equitable ones.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
And we look at history and we look at the
creation of various institutions in America, whether we're talking about education,
health care, or law enforcement. Every institution was created either
to regulate or control people of color or it was
created without people of color at the table. That has
(05:47):
been a consistent pattern throughout history, and I do not
believe that that pattern would be changed or ended, particularly
in the Trump administration.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Dei becomes such a dirty phrase and so hated. How
did that happen?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Well, Diversity, equity inclusion is not a new concept. As
many people may think that the phrase dei or diverse
ecuy inclusion as a busword, it's only about four or
five years old. But the concepts go all the way
back to the Civil Rights movement, the notion that it
(06:37):
needs to be a greater presence of people of color,
of different people, different backgrounds, Those people need to be included,
and then those people, once included need to be treated
in a way that it's fair and equitable and in
some ways compensates for the hurt and harm that they
have experience.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Ben at no fault of their own.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
So that those concepts, those core principles, are not new.
They became to be a dirty word and associate with
words like woken and and things as really political strategies.
There is a fear that because America is becoming more colored,
particularly the increases in UH Latino or LATINX populations. The
(07:21):
increases in black populations in creating increasing Asian American populations,
while simultaneous there are population decreases among white Americans that
as these demographics grow statistically that that will siphon power
away from or white white Americans. It's something called the
(07:44):
white replacement theory or the greater replacement theory, as some
scholars call it. De I was a political strategy and
a way to prevent that from happening by making verse
equent inclusion bad things, dirty words.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
That was a political ploy.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
As an attempt tonifi or mitigate this shift and population
that was observed, which a lot of people associated with
they shift in political power.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
We won the popular vote by records, so nobody can
say that anymore about us.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Nobody can say.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
That, yet he wins a trifecta, the White House, the House,
in the Senate. How did this even happen?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
But as a political scientist, this election was frustrating, not
necessarily because of the outcome, because the outcome was predictable.
It was frustrating because the narratives that you heard from
the media were somewhere toned down to both historical and
statistical facts.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
So President Trump.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Did not really make gains among minorities. It was siscal
tie between what he got from black men in this
election where he got in past elections. He made minimum
gains among the Latin or LATINX citizens. It wasn't the
(09:14):
narrative that you hear from the media. That is a
fact that the media is over it's overlooking, and that
is that the most consistent predictor of voting behavior is race.
Since the passage of the Civil rights at the nineteen
sixty four that is sixty years ago, the Democratic candidate
(09:38):
has never received a majority of the white vote in
no presidential election. Even with the efficacy of the Obama
presidency election in two thousand and eight, he still did
not get more than fifty percent of the white vote.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Or when we have faced down and possible lots told
we're not ready, or that we shouldn't try, or that
we can't, generations of Americans have responded with a simple
creed that sums up the spirit of a people. Yes
we can, Yes we can, Yes we can.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
So what that informs us is that technically white Americans,
no matter the state of the economy, the moral altitude,
or on this election, you know the criminal record of
the candidate, they are going to vote Republican. And in
this particular election, the turnout was just higher. It wasn't
(10:47):
that President Trump was able to dismantle a Democratic Democrat
coalition or even increase substantially his numbers of racially minoritized people.
It was simply that the status quote stay, and that
status quote was that white Americans turned out to the post.
What we will see once all boats are counting is
that it was not that the landslide again that the
(11:10):
media has framed it to be. We will see pretty
consistent outcomes as we've seen for most presidential elections.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
You mentioned a documentary. Would you talk a little bit
about that and what were some of the answers when
you went out and talked to black people.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
The documentary again, it's titled do you Know You Have
Black Friends? And it's a direct question towards white Americans
who will affirm black proximity as a way to generate
themselves of racism or racial ignorance. And that there were
several things that I found, I get you to call
them big takeaways and composing this documentary. One that when
(11:53):
white people affirm that they have black friends, they are
only associating blackness with dark skin, rounded nasal cavity, or
certain texture of hair. They're only associating blackness with what
they see visibly. They likely have no relative consciousness of
(12:15):
the experiences that black people face every day, and they
don't want to know those experiences because if they can
affirm that their black quote unquote friend is experiencing an
oppressive existence, and they deem this person actually as a friend,
(12:36):
they are morally obligated by their concept of friend to
do something for this person. But if they remain ignorant,
and then they're exonerating themselves from ever having to do
anything to change the system or change the experiences of
that black friend.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
But also I learned.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
That a lot of the black stories are not being told.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
In this documentary.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
You will hear from individuals who were our legacies of
the Roadswood massacre. You will hear from individuals who were
part of the movement for racial integration in the United
States and how for some they were resilient enough to fight,
(13:22):
and for how others it totally changed their life trajectory,
never even completing a college degree, even when they had
the opportune to do so you will hear about the
residual effects of racism.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Hear from those alive today how they had to deal
with it back then.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
You just stayed in your place. You just was black,
and your white folks did what they were wanted to do.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
They feel that they are just were less superior to you.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
That was just how it was.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
You know, you know, if you can't do this because
you're black. Every one of them living long lives but
not short memories of racism. How many whites were cruel, mean, disrespectful,
the impact will never go away.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
How that racism not only affects the person when the
incident occurs, but it affects that person for years to come,
and it affects how they parent, how they interacting the workplace,
how they show up in their religious institutions. You're gonna
hear about race and racism in an unfiltered way that
(14:31):
you probably haven't heard before. And I am excited to.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Share it with the world.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
It sounds very exciting, But I'm wondering if that's what
we talk about when we talk about from slavery, the
effects we all feel still to this day.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
It is undeniable that slavery and Jim Crow still have
effects today. One we need to realize that slavery in
Jim Crow was not that long ago. One of my
political science classes, I always asked them know how long
ago was slavery? And I always termed, in terms of generations,
(15:07):
how many generations do we have to go back to
get back to slavery? And I say it's no, it's
like four great great great great grandparents, or is it
so many? And there's always this high, high number. And
I always use myself as an example. I was born
in nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I am eight of nine.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Children born to the union of Perry Lewis and Irma Lewis.
My mother, Irma Lewis, was born in nineteen forty five.
Her father, not a great grandfather, which makes of my
grandfather only grand not any greats, was born in eighteen
ninety six, and its oldest brother was a slave. When
(15:48):
you think about it in that context, that means I
am literally one generation and removed from slavery, and that
my parents grew up in the legacy the realities of
Jim Crow in the Jim Crow South. So it wasn't
that long ago. We're not talking about something that happened
hundreds of years ago. There are about eight million African
(16:10):
Americans alive today who survived the horrors of Jim Crow.
So this isn't something that's that long ago. So though
those effects are still there, because it really wasn't anything
that's far off in the past.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Doctor Lewis says there are some Blacks who have had
enough of this talk about race. It's in the past.
In fact, they rather not even discuss it in today's America.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
There is a reality that.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
It's just true for Black Americans, but for all races
of minoritists, and get close enough to whiteness, then I
can alleviate the oppression that I experience as a person
of color. This was very heavily present at the turn
of the century when you had Black Americans who were
of lighter pigmentation and they did something called passing because
(17:04):
they had lighter skin tone and not as pronounced features,
they would try to pass as white. The psychology behind
that is that if I can get close enough in
proximity to whiteness, then I improve my existence. And that
is the same through through various studies.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
That is the same.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Mindset of black people who to some degree want to
abandon black affiliation for white affiliation. The notion is if
I can get close enough to this identity, close enough
to this ex experience of privilege, and I don't face
the oppression that black people are assigned to face in
(17:45):
a racialized society.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
So they're just as much to blame as this.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
Friends, Yes, just as much at fault because by them
not affirming their blackness, they are validating the moral corruptness
that exists under a wide uppressive, racialized system.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
So what are we to do? What's the answer? What
are black people to do? Those of us who understand,
live with it, deal with it, and willing to acknowledge it.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Well, one we have to be courageous enough to call
it out wherever it exists. One of my favorite historical
pieces of doctor King's Letter from the Birmingham Jail. And
many people psite Doctor King's Letter from the Birmingham Jail,
and they use it in the philosophy courses, in course,
some political theory, history, and even sociology.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
But few people know why that letter was written.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
You see, when doctor King was incarcerated in Birmingham or
protesting without a permit, many of his evangelical peers and
pastors wrote a option and condemning him for breaking the law.
Of course, under the jail Christian principles, you are to
obey the laws of the land. And so doctor King's
(19:08):
letter is a direct response to his peers condemning him.
And what he does is he takes a courageous stand
by saying, I indeed consciously broke the law, but I
did so to call out an oppressive system. And even
in this moment, I'm going to call out my peers
(19:29):
and colleagues for hiding behind perverted notions of Christianity in
order that sustain oppression. So what we have to do
is we have to have the courage to call it
out wherever it is. Something I always tell my students
is that racism is prevalent in places that is comfortable,
(19:51):
and by calling it out, we make it an uncomfortable space.
So that's something that that black people should always do
and always have the courage to do, is to call
out oppression, call out of marginalization, and call out outright
racism wherever it exists, to.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Make the good trouble.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yes, that's right.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Talk about the upcoming evening of scholars. What is that about?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
So we live in a.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Time where there are constant efforts to ban diversity are inclusion.
There are states that are in school districts and school
boards that are banning the teaching of African American history
and culture and literature. We're having some of our greatest writers,
(20:39):
like Tony Morrison being removed from from from library shelves,
and that needs to be a if I can dip
into the culture from it, it needs to be a clap back.
There needs to be something that says blackness and it's
full cultural proudness needs to be celebrated, It needs to
(21:03):
be observed, it needs to be acknowledged. So this evening
is it is literally entitled black and it's a celebration
of black research. We have some nationally renowned researchers at
Southern Illinois University Atwisville, and some of their research will
be profile and at that event that will also be
the screening or the premiere of the documentary, and we
(21:27):
will have a black band that will be black speakers.
We're going to have an evening that that that claps
back and shows that that blackness not only as an
area of cultural study, but as a legitimate academic discipline
that confers upon students transferable skills they can use in
(21:48):
the real world. Deserves its place and it's here to stay.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Doctor Lewis, How can we learn more?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Well, you can.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Visit the SIU website on the Political Science page. There
is a full page and description of the event. There's
a link on how to RSVP for the event. The
event is free and open to the public, and come
out and join us. I can guarantee you it will
be an evening that confirms and that legitimizes the legacy
(22:24):
of blackness. The legacy of blackness sometimes is overshadowed by
the oppression that we face, and we do face oppression.
But this evening is about tryumph and about how we
have affirmed ourselves even in oppressive institutions like higher education.
And we're going to celebrate that on day and the date.
(22:47):
The date is February the nineteenth. It will be only
campus of Southern Illinois University. It will start at six
in the evening.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Doctor Timothy Lewis from si U e s Southern Illinois University, Edwardsville.
What an assignment you have breaking down race in the
troubled history of America. I'm Vanessa Tyler Like and subscribe Blackland.
Let me know what you think at Vanessa Tyler one
on Instagram. Remember a new episode drops every Friday.
Host
Vanessa Tyler
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Paper Ghosts: The Texas Teen Murders
Paper Ghosts: The Texas Teen Murders takes you back to 1983, when two teenagers were found murdered, execution-style, on a quiet Texas hill. What followed was decades of rumors, false leads, and a case that law enforcement could never seem to close. Now, veteran investigative journalist M. William Phelps reopens the file — uncovering new witnesses, hidden evidence, and a shocking web of deaths that may all be connected. Over nine gripping episodes, Paper Ghosts: The Texas Teen Murders unravels a story 42 years in the making… and asks the question: who’s really been hiding the truth?
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com